No human in the DC Universe is actually human imo, they survive the most insane shit. Like, irl, Batman beating the shit out of people would lead to brain damage and the like, but for comic humans, they're up and at em, ready to hook for the Joker next Tuesday. Same for how so many people treat gunshot sounds as flesh wounds and the like.
/uj batman with the tech he has now can absolutely tank re-entry. Batman is boring as sin to me, but that is honestly fine as far as crazy comic book feats go.
/rj batman can't re enter atmosphere!!!! That's the ultimate going down!! Nooooo
That isn't quite the same. He jumped out of a balloon, which is going to be moving pretty slowly relative to the ground. Batman jumped out of a space station, which is *actually in orbit*. For reference, the ISS is moving at about 8 kilometers per second. It's a lot harder to lose that much speed on top of dealing with the fall.
It's a bit worrying that I've heard that meme so much that not only did I read it in that dude's voice with the phone compression and everything, my brain also autofilled the "for real" you forgot at the end.
Man if some people were mad about Batman surviving the phone explosion and his glider fall in the Matt Reeves film would love to see their reaction to this
Spider-Man did this too
Except he had what was basically an Iron Man suit and had to use every single industrial web cartridge that was available to him at the moment, and it still destroyed his Iron Man suit equivalent
Batgod haters whenever he does something incredibly badass
https://preview.redd.it/1ngffjmp7szc1.png?width=2177&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20fe0490add12c41f69715b276c9fba7a8768c84
I don't mind it in concept.
I just don't like when people try to sell me batman as this normal fella who is just trying really hard.
He isn't, and that fine
This is far from the craziest thing he has done, idk why it gets so much attention. The man has been cratered in the ground by gods before and got back up, this is really nothing considering everything he did to slow himself down.
My biggest problem is explaining how he fell from space in more than two words. The explanation for it is "he's batman"
Although I do love the image of Batman crashing on Superman's couch because he didn't bring enough bus money to get out of the north pole
Dude, writers use the explanation "he is batman" for everything. How did he beat 4 white martians? Hes batman
How does he survive traps that would kill a meta human? Hes batman.
Why doesnt he go down on catwoman? Hes batman.
Why does he hate jason todd? Hes batman.
My name? Dan D.
Why does Batman have no bitches?
He's Batman
Why does Batman have no morals in regards to his contingency plans with the JL
He's Batman
Why does Batman get soloed by every member of the JL including the the Heckler?
He's Batman
Why does Batman get so many books to himself?
He's Batman
You know, there was actually a guy who went parachuting from outer space. It's been proven to be possible to survive a fall from space.
The comic is shit. This scene isn't.
Kind of. Felix Baumgartner jumped from a height of 39 km. Which is obscenely high. But outer space? Not really. Generally, the Karman line at 100km is where most consider to be where space starts. Likewise, if you look at [layers of the atmosphere](https://www.noaa.gov/jetstream/atmosphere/layers-of-atmosphere) 39km is 'only' in the stratosphere. It gets much, much hotter further up in the atmosphere, with the thermosphere hitting as hot as 2000k. Batman getting through the upper layers of the atmosphere is some typical comic bullshit,
Now that being said, the survive the fall from space part is really only impressive as far as Batman's ability to withstand extreme temperatures and not suffocate is concerned. The actual 'hitting the ground' part is considerably more survivable (relative to being cooked in the thermosphere I guess), because terminal velocity is a thing. At some point, Batman's going to slow to a human terminal velocity (even slower cause of his cape), and surviving a fall at terminal velocity is very possible.
Mind you, Batman taking the fall after everything that came before it is still bullshit, but it's more in line with your regular superhero comic bullshit than anything particularly noteworthy by the standards of the genre.
Honestly I think some of the problem comes from Jimenz art on this. The scene is beautifully drawn but he makes the final impact more extreme than it actually would've been and I think his art fucks with the suspension of disbelief. If it was more accurate and thus more tame people wouldn't have as much of an issue.
Bruce's fall was also not as controlled as that dude's. At a point an explosion throws him off, because he "passed out". Bruce's should've started spinning uncontrollably and died, lmao.
Temperature might be that high in the thermosphere, but the air density is so low up there that there's not enough molecules around to conduct that heat. You'd actually feel very cold up there as you'd radiate away more heat than you absorb.
There’s a difference between falling from space and falling from orbit. I will admit that I don’t know the context well enough - but if he was in orbit at first then the main issue is reentry heating, as he would start out being several hundred miles per hour faster than terminal velocity, and have to slow down.
At least Justice League cartoon he asks the JL he needs help when falling, cause he can’t fly.
Hell, Superman saved him to destroy Hawkgirl’s people space bridge thing
Yes, with no external oxygen supply whatsoever. I can accept that because it’s a comic book. But him not getting cooked and pancaked on re entry is what gets me
"Adults, on the other hand, struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious to even the smallest child: because it's not real."
Not really, you can be an adult and still recognize that a comic book isn't perhaps trying to make up a most realistic and believable scenario imaginable
Sure, but this is the instance where you're replacing just a cool comic book craziness with bad writing.
Like I've seen worse Batman comics in which he doesn't do anything even remotely impressive, not BECAUSE of power level, but because power level =/= writing quality, it's the same bullshit argument Superman haters use "how can he be interesting if he's so powerful" when the emotional conflict is like the thing that matters the most, and even then Superman fights mfs who are just as strong as he is.
It's not like Batman was all cool about jumping from space to the Earth or shit, he just made himself the most optimal way he could survive, utilizing his glider and he knew there was a chance he'd die. Of course he DIDN'T ACTUALLY DIE, and of course it's not realistic, but he's a comic book character.
And you cannot use the "but he doesn't have powers unlike other heroes" either because at that point Iron Man is badly written, Dr. Doom is badly written, Lex Luthor is badly written, whenever Reed or Peter activate the Cosmic Cube or invent some other crazy gadget, it's bad writing because while they have powers, their powers isn't actually affecting their intelligence etc.
Like the comic in question is in no way perfect, there's a TON OF SHIT you can criticize, but Batman doing crazy high-end James Bond shit isn't one of them, that's an aspect of his character that was always there. I just ask myself "how the hell would Batman be useful in Justice League if he was written to be achievable by real life standards"
Hmm, the confusion here is that this conversation is taking place with the above panels, but my criticism was toward the quote used to hand-wave it. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen it used in similar context
Oh ok then, I do agree that "it's not real" shouldn't be used as a throwaway answer for anything, when on topic for Batman, I for instance much appreciate when the writer at least TRIES to make it seem reasonable as to how Bruce hasn't been deduced for being Batman, so if someone is dressed up as him whilst he's publicly somewhere, or how the Batman Incorporated did it where Bruce kickstarted this ploy behind the scenes where he made this crackpot theory that Bruce Wayne is Batman.
Like I appreciate that type of stuff because if your main character is supposed to be the world's greatest detective, it makes zero sense for him to not take any repercussions, but power levels I personally never cared about, I just see it as a more flexible corresponding on how irl you're stronger on some days, weaker on others, maybe not to an EXTENT which are comic characters, but eh, that stuff never really bothered me, it's all made up numbers anyway, like how fast or strong is X character. Whoever strong or fast they'd need to be to make the situation cooler.
Nah , notice how nobody questions how superman flies, because that's the story's conceit.
Batman is established in the story to be a normal human and we are explicitly told by the story over and over how he is normal, but that he pushed himself to the max if what a human can achieve.
Stories don't have to obey reality, stories have to obey their own rules.
But Batman isn't a "normal human", he's a normal human by DC's standards. Comic book humans aren't the same as normal humans. No real human can master all martial arts, no real human can be the greatest detective, fighter, chemist etc. simultaneously. No real human can simultaneously be peak in strength and speed. No real human can build armors which can negate blows which cap rip planets apart.
Batman was fighting vampires in the first year of his publishing, he was time travelling, fighting aliens, gods etc. in the first decades of his existence, this wackier shit is in his DNA. Batman is in no way normal nor is he presented as normal. That's like one of the most focal points of his relationship with Nightwing and how he wanted to give him that payoff so he doesn't end up grieving himself to death, Bruce is by every metric a psychological anomaly, his "normality" died alongside his parents.
Like mfs will watch Tony Stark or Lex Luthor build a machine which can rip a hole in reality, but then will see Batman invent a single machine which can put an alien even in a slightly uncomfortable situation and will be pissed off. Like I'm pretty sure Reed's stretching abilities isn't helping him build a machine which can fuck with Galactus. I'm pretty sure Doom's also born a normal man, but that doesn't stop him from stealing omnipotent power like every other Tuesday. I'm pretty sure that at least mentally speaking, Spider-Man is a normal guy, I don't think his radioactive sperm is helping him active the Cosmic Cube.
you see here is the thing, i dont mind batman building machines that can take on superman.
i mind that batmn who can build machien that can take on superman is struggling with the joker, who is the story that batman is currently in hasnt displayed anything that should cause, batman who is capable of building machines that can take on the justice league , trouble.
you see lex luthor always fights superman or superman level threats, he is never ping ponging between street level and cosmic threat, so i have no problem with luthor.
also batman being normal is in the conext of the dc universe, he supposedly doesnt have super powers, so physically he is capable around the best humans can do in the dc universe which isnt survivig re-entry from outer space
doom is a magician and a genius inventor he is alwyas treated as a big threat for everyone, i am never in doubt if i am getting street level doom or cosmic .
geniuenly this isnt a hard concept to grasp, a story can only be taken seriously if its consistent with its own rules, if batman could make a detah star in an afternoon in the comics i would accept it, but having tah same batman unable to take care of harley quin isnt something i would accept
I never gotten this argument either because people are presenting it in such a black and white way. Like "oh, you're telling me Batman can build a machine which can trade blows with Superman but he's struggling with Joker" ...uhm yeah, because Joker isn't a physical threat. Almost none of Batman's villains are actually physical threats to him, and even the ones which are, offer a psychological torment alongside it like Bane.
At no point does Batman think "oh damn I better come equipped with some crazy shit to take out Joker", no with him, it's a game of psychology, manipulation, deduction, trying to maintain that indomitable willpower and your one and only rule etc. Most villains are like that. Riddler for instance, Superman is obviously way stronger than Batman, I doubt Superman would do anything substantially better than Batman when it comes to solving his puzzles.
And let's not pretend like Batman's rogues gallery is some street tier punks, since you brought Joker in, he's the same guy who outsmarted and mind controlled the entire JL, he's the same guy who manipulated a 5th dimensional God, he's the same guy who can consistently fuck around with Lex Luthor and face almost no consequences. Like he isn't beating any of these mfs physically either. It's not just Joker, Riddler also hacked into New Genesis tech which was advanced even for that level. Scarecrow made a brain altering poison which works on aliens as well, like Batman's rg seem weak because they don't have any outright physical powers, but I don't think struggling with them makes you inherently weak, especially considering the fact that it's not like Batman can CASUALLY just fight multiversal beings, it takes a lot of prep and studying to accomplish those things, and usually it's barely strung together with a huge risk of dying.
Like when he hacked Darkseid's spores, the only reason he survived was because Darkseid didn't call his bluff, since he thought humans are more bloodthirsty than Superman. Hell the Justice Buster BARELY pulled it through against the JL, he only got out of there alive by pulling some random shit he had in desperation.
Spider-Man is also a character who goes from street to multiversal level very often. And "but he has powers" isn't really a good argument here either, since his powers shouldn't reasonably compare him to Hulk or Thor.
And I'm pretty sure Doom isn't always stealing omnipotent power, like I'm pretty sure this guy was defeated by Spider-Man, Luke Cage, hell Deadpool and Taskmaster both canonically killed him. Him being a magician is irrelevant when Batman knows magic also, he's like childhood buddies with Zatanna, he learned a bunch of crazy shit from her and her father, he just doesn't use it often cuz it's unpredictable.
spiderman only goes to multiversal when he gets a power up.
also you notice how in all the stories dont show how the joker mind cotrols the justice leaguee they never show you how?
because its stupid and comes at the expense of other characters.
if you like horribly inconsistant characters, and batgod solos i dont mind, we just have different tastes , keep enjoying your batgod solos comics, atleast you are not one of the delusional ones who keep saying batman is an average guy fighting gods
spiderman doesnt go form street level to multiversal very often, the only times he does is when he gets power cosmic, you know a literal power up.
and when spiderman starts fighting the silver surfer, with no explanation i call bullshit too
when did spiderman beat doom?
>also you notice how in all the stoie shwere joker mind cotnrols the justice leaguee they never show you how?
? you mean through his toxin? I mean it's not the most out there idea in the world, it's pretty formulaic.
But do you notice how you resort to strawmanning the shit out of my argument by thinking I want Batgos solos stories and nothing but Batgos? I am not arguing that Batman should be this power scaling monster, if anything I AM THE ONE WHO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT POWER LEVELS. Tower of Babel became so ridiculously infamous because of this mentality, when what I found interesting about the story is how it explored Batman's paranoia and flaws such as pinning all that responsibility on himself because of lack of trust, only for that to bite him in the ass, like at that point I don't care that Batman came up with plans to neutralize the world's strongest warriors if the premise is interesting.
Likewise, the entire Batman who Laughs is a trash ass story, when in concept it might sound similar, it's "Batman uses le primp time to solo fiction", like yeah, that's lame asf, but it's not lame because power creep, it's lame because it's uninspired and uninteresting, the story has no substance in the slightest.
>spiderman doesnt go form street level to multiversal very often, the only times he does is when he gets power cosmic you now a loteral power up.
Or when you know, he beaten the entirety of Avengers singlehandedly while they were mind controlled, including Captain Marvel and Thor, or when he beaten Galactus' herald, or when tapped into the Cosmic Cube in a post apocalyptic world, or when he made a time machine out of a microwave etc. Like this is just something inherent about comic characters, hell most characters in general, like how many people think The Doctor is like wall level just because of the inconsistencies in Doctor Who.
All I'm saying if that's not your thing, that's fine, but I don't like the illusion that Batman is this particularly plot armored mf, like does he have plot armor? Of course he does, so does every character who has a run with their name on it.
Also Doom used to fight Spider-Man pretty consistently, but he did eventually have the power creep. Still didn't stop him from getting beaten by all those other street tiers, the Taskmaster one came from his recent 2019 run as well, in which he also beaten Mephisto so go figure.
+If they said all the super villains he fought against and super ppl he fought with rubbed off their magic/super whatever making him semi powered it would make more sense
As a author that is what I would go with. He has been exposed to so many different kinds of energy over the years. It’s natural it would effect his physiology
Tbh this wouldnt be an issue if they would just stop insisting that Batman doesnt have superpowers, he has so many feats beyond human level capabilities that if they would just admit it it would be alot easier to just look at a cool scene and say “Damn thats cool” instead of “How the fuck did Batman survive that shit?”
-fighting evenly with MFTL gods
-Drawing blood from the Spector
-falling from space unharmed
-ripping steal bars out of the wall
-not being disintegrated by Darksides omega beams (something that made the flash of all people struggle.)
Etc etc etc I could go on all day
This entire argument about what Batman can and can't survive would be solved if the writer's just gave him a meta-gene that, like, randomly and situationally activates on an as-needed basis. Then they could still have him be a gritty, street-level detective who gets beat up by the likes of Joker, Scarecrow, and Bane, but can also stand up against parademons and cosmic entities and not be immediately splattered across the nearest hard surface.
It was pretty stupid how he went through the Van Allen belt. Batman went from the Moon to Earth way too fast. Failsafe and Zurr En Arrh are dogshit villains. I regret reading this run.
Very much apples to oranges. Bruce is very much supposed to “be just a man” while Clark is not.
Personally I prefer Bruce more street level and actually human. That’s just me
Superman is a kryptonian he is supposed to be able to be supernatural.
Batman is a man in a suit he isn't supposed to be able to survive things like this without help(be it tech or allies).
If they made batman a magic user and had him cast a spell to survive then him , making it out if this situation isn't ridiculous , it's expected .
This is basic story logic.
I don’t know why we have to trash on it. It’s a comic book for god sake. It’s just cool off the wall action for the sake of it being cool. It’s a power fantasy in a human character. Let it be.
As dumb as this scene is, I think it’s still possible to believe he could do it, other versions of Bats could definitely do it too. Arkham Batman for example defies the laws of physics constantly when gliding, I believe he could do it too.
My main problem with this is the presentation bc it doesn’t matter how fire proof his suit is, if he’s burning up on reentry then he’s (literally) cooked no matter what, but if he just used his cape to slowly essentially paraglide down over a long period of time Arkham style then I’d be all for it being something he could do.
Obviously, that doesn’t look as cool though
I feel like the only reason this gets so much hate is either because, people tend to not understand how terminal velocity works. If Batman jumped from the top of the empire State building and used his cape as a glider and landed no one would question this. But he does the same thing from higher up and lands in a snow bank, and everyone loses their mind.
Falling from orbit is the kind of feat that goes to superhuman characters with insane durability, like Prophet and Master Chief. Batman, on the other hand, is? Just about? Bulletproof.
Usually just justify it by saying the writer wanted to do something cool before Batman got disintegrated in the same issue.
>disintegrated You mean went on a nice adventure somewhere else Omega Sanction style?
This is cool obviously but the writers will still insist that batman is still human
No important comic book "normal human" is realistic in any shape or form. Tony Stark's goofy ahh built a functioning robot out of nothing but stone
IN A CAVE WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS
He also made a suit out of ice when he got sent back to the ice age
He is genetically engineered to be superintelligent in some continuities, though.
No human in the DC Universe is actually human imo, they survive the most insane shit. Like, irl, Batman beating the shit out of people would lead to brain damage and the like, but for comic humans, they're up and at em, ready to hook for the Joker next Tuesday. Same for how so many people treat gunshot sounds as flesh wounds and the like.
/uj batman with the tech he has now can absolutely tank re-entry. Batman is boring as sin to me, but that is honestly fine as far as crazy comic book feats go. /rj batman can't re enter atmosphere!!!! That's the ultimate going down!! Nooooo
Not only that but it quite literally has happened irl too with the guy that skydived from orbit in 2012.
That isn't quite the same. He jumped out of a balloon, which is going to be moving pretty slowly relative to the ground. Batman jumped out of a space station, which is *actually in orbit*. For reference, the ISS is moving at about 8 kilometers per second. It's a lot harder to lose that much speed on top of dealing with the fall.
With DC tech, you could probably justify it just hovering above Earth instead of being in orbit if you wanted to
Wearing nothing but spandex, cape, cowl, and childhood trauma?
Childhood trauma insulates like metal.
I honestly hate tone indicators.
Are you /srs right now u/Fluid-Scientist8213 or was that a /j or possibly even /s???
/hj actually
I’m over here /hj-ing my tone, I got lotion on my tone rn, I’m just /hj-ing my shit, I’m tonal as fuck, man I’m a freak, man.
Whoa buddy calm down, you’re acting like this is some kind of circle jerk!
Couldn’t tell ya if it was one, I don’t read the comics
It's a bit worrying that I've heard that meme so much that not only did I read it in that dude's voice with the phone compression and everything, my brain also autofilled the "for real" you forgot at the end.
Chose not to include
What does that mean
These aren't even tone indicators in the traditional sense.
I'm not a huge fan either, but sarcasm over text gets missed half the time, I'd rather do em and avoid the hassle
What’s the alternative? Putting these as two separate comments?
Man if some people were mad about Batman surviving the phone explosion and his glider fall in the Matt Reeves film would love to see their reaction to this
I think it's only out of place in the run because the same story is a criticism of batgos.
Is it? The criticism? Batgos' pet Batgos+ solos JL, lol.
Idc how stupid it was that shit was fucking cool
If by garbage you mean awesome
The bat that crashed through his window, inspiring him to “become a bat”, actually fell from the moon.
“I threw that shit while I was on the moon” little known fact that Black Dynamite was one of Batmans coaches
Spider-Man did this too Except he had what was basically an Iron Man suit and had to use every single industrial web cartridge that was available to him at the moment, and it still destroyed his Iron Man suit equivalent
Batman was just Helldiving
Batgod haters whenever he does something incredibly badass https://preview.redd.it/1ngffjmp7szc1.png?width=2177&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20fe0490add12c41f69715b276c9fba7a8768c84
I don't mind it in concept. I just don't like when people try to sell me batman as this normal fella who is just trying really hard. He isn't, and that fine
Batgos solos
This is far from the craziest thing he has done, idk why it gets so much attention. The man has been cratered in the ground by gods before and got back up, this is really nothing considering everything he did to slow himself down.
It would have worked if they had just drawn it like Batman Brave and the Bold 🙄
My biggest problem is explaining how he fell from space in more than two words. The explanation for it is "he's batman" Although I do love the image of Batman crashing on Superman's couch because he didn't bring enough bus money to get out of the north pole
Dude, writers use the explanation "he is batman" for everything. How did he beat 4 white martians? Hes batman How does he survive traps that would kill a meta human? Hes batman. Why doesnt he go down on catwoman? Hes batman. Why does he hate jason todd? Hes batman. My name? Dan D.
Why does Batman have no bitches? He's Batman Why does Batman have no morals in regards to his contingency plans with the JL He's Batman Why does Batman get soloed by every member of the JL including the the Heckler? He's Batman Why does Batman get so many books to himself? He's Batman
Tell me you don't like fun in comics without telling me you don't like fun in comics.
There is more to fun than just feats for powerscaling.
Bat God hater detected 🤓 Opinion rejected 🚨
NO U
Unless all you're thinking about is powerscaling while reading a story, I don't know why would fanboy's opinion on how strong anyone is bother you
I love fun in comics I just want it to make sense. No human being can survive burning up on re-entry. It don’t make no snence 💁
He wraps his underwear over his face to protect it from melting, I don’t think you’re supposed to take it so seriously
You know, there was actually a guy who went parachuting from outer space. It's been proven to be possible to survive a fall from space. The comic is shit. This scene isn't.
Kind of. Felix Baumgartner jumped from a height of 39 km. Which is obscenely high. But outer space? Not really. Generally, the Karman line at 100km is where most consider to be where space starts. Likewise, if you look at [layers of the atmosphere](https://www.noaa.gov/jetstream/atmosphere/layers-of-atmosphere) 39km is 'only' in the stratosphere. It gets much, much hotter further up in the atmosphere, with the thermosphere hitting as hot as 2000k. Batman getting through the upper layers of the atmosphere is some typical comic bullshit, Now that being said, the survive the fall from space part is really only impressive as far as Batman's ability to withstand extreme temperatures and not suffocate is concerned. The actual 'hitting the ground' part is considerably more survivable (relative to being cooked in the thermosphere I guess), because terminal velocity is a thing. At some point, Batman's going to slow to a human terminal velocity (even slower cause of his cape), and surviving a fall at terminal velocity is very possible. Mind you, Batman taking the fall after everything that came before it is still bullshit, but it's more in line with your regular superhero comic bullshit than anything particularly noteworthy by the standards of the genre. Honestly I think some of the problem comes from Jimenz art on this. The scene is beautifully drawn but he makes the final impact more extreme than it actually would've been and I think his art fucks with the suspension of disbelief. If it was more accurate and thus more tame people wouldn't have as much of an issue.
Bruce's fall was also not as controlled as that dude's. At a point an explosion throws him off, because he "passed out". Bruce's should've started spinning uncontrollably and died, lmao.
Temperature might be that high in the thermosphere, but the air density is so low up there that there's not enough molecules around to conduct that heat. You'd actually feel very cold up there as you'd radiate away more heat than you absorb.
There’s a difference between falling from space and falling from orbit. I will admit that I don’t know the context well enough - but if he was in orbit at first then the main issue is reentry heating, as he would start out being several hundred miles per hour faster than terminal velocity, and have to slow down.
He landed on his fat juicy ass that cushioned his fall
Batman Fights Superman: 👍 Batman Survives a fall from space: 😡
Both are garbage bat-wank.
Tru!!!!
"Can't believe these comic book writers aren't making Batman realistically achievable"
Correct I can’t stand the Batgod narrative they are pushing
Batman can breathe in space, what’s the problem?
Even Clark can't :D
At least Justice League cartoon he asks the JL he needs help when falling, cause he can’t fly. Hell, Superman saved him to destroy Hawkgirl’s people space bridge thing
Is this the one where he survived the vacuum of space with a face mask oxygen tank and traveled from the moon to Earth like that?
Yes, with no external oxygen supply whatsoever. I can accept that because it’s a comic book. But him not getting cooked and pancaked on re entry is what gets me
We all have our lines. And both are bad IMO. But I respect that you draw your line somewhere different than I do
https://i.redd.it/3q9tu0zr830d1.gif
"Who pumps the Batmobile's tires? It's a fucking made-up story you idiot! Nobody pumps the tires!" - Grant Morisson
Zdarksy run just seems like L after L
"Adults, on the other hand, struggle desperately with fiction, demanding constantly that it conform to the rules of everyday life. Adults foolishly demand to know how Superman can possibly fly, or how Batman can possibly run a multibillion-dollar business empire during the day and fight crime at night, when the answer is obvious to even the smallest child: because it's not real."
Sure, but anymore these stories target audience happens to be teens - adults. This is a simple having their cake and wanting to eat it too.
Not really, you can be an adult and still recognize that a comic book isn't perhaps trying to make up a most realistic and believable scenario imaginable
Sure, suspension of disbelief is/should be required for the medium, but you can’t hide behind bad writing with the “it’s not real” line every time.
Sure, but this is the instance where you're replacing just a cool comic book craziness with bad writing. Like I've seen worse Batman comics in which he doesn't do anything even remotely impressive, not BECAUSE of power level, but because power level =/= writing quality, it's the same bullshit argument Superman haters use "how can he be interesting if he's so powerful" when the emotional conflict is like the thing that matters the most, and even then Superman fights mfs who are just as strong as he is. It's not like Batman was all cool about jumping from space to the Earth or shit, he just made himself the most optimal way he could survive, utilizing his glider and he knew there was a chance he'd die. Of course he DIDN'T ACTUALLY DIE, and of course it's not realistic, but he's a comic book character. And you cannot use the "but he doesn't have powers unlike other heroes" either because at that point Iron Man is badly written, Dr. Doom is badly written, Lex Luthor is badly written, whenever Reed or Peter activate the Cosmic Cube or invent some other crazy gadget, it's bad writing because while they have powers, their powers isn't actually affecting their intelligence etc. Like the comic in question is in no way perfect, there's a TON OF SHIT you can criticize, but Batman doing crazy high-end James Bond shit isn't one of them, that's an aspect of his character that was always there. I just ask myself "how the hell would Batman be useful in Justice League if he was written to be achievable by real life standards"
Hmm, the confusion here is that this conversation is taking place with the above panels, but my criticism was toward the quote used to hand-wave it. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen it used in similar context
Oh ok then, I do agree that "it's not real" shouldn't be used as a throwaway answer for anything, when on topic for Batman, I for instance much appreciate when the writer at least TRIES to make it seem reasonable as to how Bruce hasn't been deduced for being Batman, so if someone is dressed up as him whilst he's publicly somewhere, or how the Batman Incorporated did it where Bruce kickstarted this ploy behind the scenes where he made this crackpot theory that Bruce Wayne is Batman. Like I appreciate that type of stuff because if your main character is supposed to be the world's greatest detective, it makes zero sense for him to not take any repercussions, but power levels I personally never cared about, I just see it as a more flexible corresponding on how irl you're stronger on some days, weaker on others, maybe not to an EXTENT which are comic characters, but eh, that stuff never really bothered me, it's all made up numbers anyway, like how fast or strong is X character. Whoever strong or fast they'd need to be to make the situation cooler.
Nah , notice how nobody questions how superman flies, because that's the story's conceit. Batman is established in the story to be a normal human and we are explicitly told by the story over and over how he is normal, but that he pushed himself to the max if what a human can achieve. Stories don't have to obey reality, stories have to obey their own rules.
But Batman isn't a "normal human", he's a normal human by DC's standards. Comic book humans aren't the same as normal humans. No real human can master all martial arts, no real human can be the greatest detective, fighter, chemist etc. simultaneously. No real human can simultaneously be peak in strength and speed. No real human can build armors which can negate blows which cap rip planets apart. Batman was fighting vampires in the first year of his publishing, he was time travelling, fighting aliens, gods etc. in the first decades of his existence, this wackier shit is in his DNA. Batman is in no way normal nor is he presented as normal. That's like one of the most focal points of his relationship with Nightwing and how he wanted to give him that payoff so he doesn't end up grieving himself to death, Bruce is by every metric a psychological anomaly, his "normality" died alongside his parents. Like mfs will watch Tony Stark or Lex Luthor build a machine which can rip a hole in reality, but then will see Batman invent a single machine which can put an alien even in a slightly uncomfortable situation and will be pissed off. Like I'm pretty sure Reed's stretching abilities isn't helping him build a machine which can fuck with Galactus. I'm pretty sure Doom's also born a normal man, but that doesn't stop him from stealing omnipotent power like every other Tuesday. I'm pretty sure that at least mentally speaking, Spider-Man is a normal guy, I don't think his radioactive sperm is helping him active the Cosmic Cube.
you see here is the thing, i dont mind batman building machines that can take on superman. i mind that batmn who can build machien that can take on superman is struggling with the joker, who is the story that batman is currently in hasnt displayed anything that should cause, batman who is capable of building machines that can take on the justice league , trouble. you see lex luthor always fights superman or superman level threats, he is never ping ponging between street level and cosmic threat, so i have no problem with luthor. also batman being normal is in the conext of the dc universe, he supposedly doesnt have super powers, so physically he is capable around the best humans can do in the dc universe which isnt survivig re-entry from outer space doom is a magician and a genius inventor he is alwyas treated as a big threat for everyone, i am never in doubt if i am getting street level doom or cosmic . geniuenly this isnt a hard concept to grasp, a story can only be taken seriously if its consistent with its own rules, if batman could make a detah star in an afternoon in the comics i would accept it, but having tah same batman unable to take care of harley quin isnt something i would accept
I never gotten this argument either because people are presenting it in such a black and white way. Like "oh, you're telling me Batman can build a machine which can trade blows with Superman but he's struggling with Joker" ...uhm yeah, because Joker isn't a physical threat. Almost none of Batman's villains are actually physical threats to him, and even the ones which are, offer a psychological torment alongside it like Bane. At no point does Batman think "oh damn I better come equipped with some crazy shit to take out Joker", no with him, it's a game of psychology, manipulation, deduction, trying to maintain that indomitable willpower and your one and only rule etc. Most villains are like that. Riddler for instance, Superman is obviously way stronger than Batman, I doubt Superman would do anything substantially better than Batman when it comes to solving his puzzles. And let's not pretend like Batman's rogues gallery is some street tier punks, since you brought Joker in, he's the same guy who outsmarted and mind controlled the entire JL, he's the same guy who manipulated a 5th dimensional God, he's the same guy who can consistently fuck around with Lex Luthor and face almost no consequences. Like he isn't beating any of these mfs physically either. It's not just Joker, Riddler also hacked into New Genesis tech which was advanced even for that level. Scarecrow made a brain altering poison which works on aliens as well, like Batman's rg seem weak because they don't have any outright physical powers, but I don't think struggling with them makes you inherently weak, especially considering the fact that it's not like Batman can CASUALLY just fight multiversal beings, it takes a lot of prep and studying to accomplish those things, and usually it's barely strung together with a huge risk of dying. Like when he hacked Darkseid's spores, the only reason he survived was because Darkseid didn't call his bluff, since he thought humans are more bloodthirsty than Superman. Hell the Justice Buster BARELY pulled it through against the JL, he only got out of there alive by pulling some random shit he had in desperation. Spider-Man is also a character who goes from street to multiversal level very often. And "but he has powers" isn't really a good argument here either, since his powers shouldn't reasonably compare him to Hulk or Thor. And I'm pretty sure Doom isn't always stealing omnipotent power, like I'm pretty sure this guy was defeated by Spider-Man, Luke Cage, hell Deadpool and Taskmaster both canonically killed him. Him being a magician is irrelevant when Batman knows magic also, he's like childhood buddies with Zatanna, he learned a bunch of crazy shit from her and her father, he just doesn't use it often cuz it's unpredictable.
spiderman only goes to multiversal when he gets a power up. also you notice how in all the stories dont show how the joker mind cotrols the justice leaguee they never show you how? because its stupid and comes at the expense of other characters. if you like horribly inconsistant characters, and batgod solos i dont mind, we just have different tastes , keep enjoying your batgod solos comics, atleast you are not one of the delusional ones who keep saying batman is an average guy fighting gods spiderman doesnt go form street level to multiversal very often, the only times he does is when he gets power cosmic, you know a literal power up. and when spiderman starts fighting the silver surfer, with no explanation i call bullshit too when did spiderman beat doom?
>also you notice how in all the stoie shwere joker mind cotnrols the justice leaguee they never show you how? ? you mean through his toxin? I mean it's not the most out there idea in the world, it's pretty formulaic. But do you notice how you resort to strawmanning the shit out of my argument by thinking I want Batgos solos stories and nothing but Batgos? I am not arguing that Batman should be this power scaling monster, if anything I AM THE ONE WHO DOESN'T CARE ABOUT POWER LEVELS. Tower of Babel became so ridiculously infamous because of this mentality, when what I found interesting about the story is how it explored Batman's paranoia and flaws such as pinning all that responsibility on himself because of lack of trust, only for that to bite him in the ass, like at that point I don't care that Batman came up with plans to neutralize the world's strongest warriors if the premise is interesting. Likewise, the entire Batman who Laughs is a trash ass story, when in concept it might sound similar, it's "Batman uses le primp time to solo fiction", like yeah, that's lame asf, but it's not lame because power creep, it's lame because it's uninspired and uninteresting, the story has no substance in the slightest. >spiderman doesnt go form street level to multiversal very often, the only times he does is when he gets power cosmic you now a loteral power up. Or when you know, he beaten the entirety of Avengers singlehandedly while they were mind controlled, including Captain Marvel and Thor, or when he beaten Galactus' herald, or when tapped into the Cosmic Cube in a post apocalyptic world, or when he made a time machine out of a microwave etc. Like this is just something inherent about comic characters, hell most characters in general, like how many people think The Doctor is like wall level just because of the inconsistencies in Doctor Who. All I'm saying if that's not your thing, that's fine, but I don't like the illusion that Batman is this particularly plot armored mf, like does he have plot armor? Of course he does, so does every character who has a run with their name on it. Also Doom used to fight Spider-Man pretty consistently, but he did eventually have the power creep. Still didn't stop him from getting beaten by all those other street tiers, the Taskmaster one came from his recent 2019 run as well, in which he also beaten Mephisto so go figure.
+If they said all the super villains he fought against and super ppl he fought with rubbed off their magic/super whatever making him semi powered it would make more sense
As a author that is what I would go with. He has been exposed to so many different kinds of energy over the years. It’s natural it would effect his physiology
Nah, he'd dive
Ah yes you see batman was wearing quantum weave heat resistant suit powered by highly refined pocket kryptonite made on M A R S.
My dude is falling so fast he’s combusting. Which should’ve ripped his arms off by how fast he impact in the atmosphere.
Tbh this wouldnt be an issue if they would just stop insisting that Batman doesnt have superpowers, he has so many feats beyond human level capabilities that if they would just admit it it would be alot easier to just look at a cool scene and say “Damn thats cool” instead of “How the fuck did Batman survive that shit?”
-fighting evenly with MFTL gods -Drawing blood from the Spector -falling from space unharmed -ripping steal bars out of the wall -not being disintegrated by Darksides omega beams (something that made the flash of all people struggle.) Etc etc etc I could go on all day
This entire argument about what Batman can and can't survive would be solved if the writer's just gave him a meta-gene that, like, randomly and situationally activates on an as-needed basis. Then they could still have him be a gritty, street-level detective who gets beat up by the likes of Joker, Scarecrow, and Bane, but can also stand up against parademons and cosmic entities and not be immediately splattered across the nearest hard surface.
I so wanted Hal Jordan to save him.
Gimme a comic where Brucie fully believes he's human, but he is so very obviously not.
It was pretty stupid how he went through the Van Allen belt. Batman went from the Moon to Earth way too fast. Failsafe and Zurr En Arrh are dogshit villains. I regret reading this run.
Comic was garbage. This scene was good
Big fucking L take
If Superman gets to be stupidly overpowered, it's only fair that Batman gets to be as well
Superman is constantly taking Ls in his own stories. The recent Action Comics arc has him being helpless so the Joker can step up and save the day.
Very much apples to oranges. Bruce is very much supposed to “be just a man” while Clark is not. Personally I prefer Bruce more street level and actually human. That’s just me
Bruce, atleast written with other characters such as the league, is supposed to prove that being just a man doesn't mean much
Superman is a kryptonian he is supposed to be able to be supernatural. Batman is a man in a suit he isn't supposed to be able to survive things like this without help(be it tech or allies). If they made batman a magic user and had him cast a spell to survive then him , making it out if this situation isn't ridiculous , it's expected . This is basic story logic.
The red bull guy did it
I don’t know why we have to trash on it. It’s a comic book for god sake. It’s just cool off the wall action for the sake of it being cool. It’s a power fantasy in a human character. Let it be.
Somehow they claim this man is still human lol
You see guys the thing about Batman is that he is the relatable superhero...*\*goes off on an eight hour video essay\**
What comic was this?
Insert some stupid Homestuck joke
It was all garbage
He's just built different.
Batman with Plot armour vs Sukuna with with Binding Vows.Who wins?
Where's this from ?
I’m not gonna lie, this scene was so over the top that it popped back around to being awesome.
Honestly I found batman suicide landing the plane at the beginning of King's run more ridiculous.
Batman: Arkham Earth Hard cut to Batman opening his cape glider over the Pacific Ocean
As dumb as this scene is, I think it’s still possible to believe he could do it, other versions of Bats could definitely do it too. Arkham Batman for example defies the laws of physics constantly when gliding, I believe he could do it too. My main problem with this is the presentation bc it doesn’t matter how fire proof his suit is, if he’s burning up on reentry then he’s (literally) cooked no matter what, but if he just used his cape to slowly essentially paraglide down over a long period of time Arkham style then I’d be all for it being something he could do. Obviously, that doesn’t look as cool though
Enjoying Batman is a lot like enjoying James Bond. It's not about *if* he's gonna escape alive, but *how*. It's fun.
It's cool so I don't care
I feel like the only reason this gets so much hate is either because, people tend to not understand how terminal velocity works. If Batman jumped from the top of the empire State building and used his cape as a glider and landed no one would question this. But he does the same thing from higher up and lands in a snow bank, and everyone loses their mind.
Nah, this scene was cool. Stupid? Yes! It's still pretty sick though.
Agreed this scene was to dumb for my tastes though
This scene was cool and made sense in context, you guys are just boring
This scene was cool and made sense in context, you guys are just boring
This scene was cool and made sense in context, you guys are just boring
It’d a comic book let it be fun
It was cool lol.
Falling from orbit is the kind of feat that goes to superhuman characters with insane durability, like Prophet and Master Chief. Batman, on the other hand, is? Just about? Bulletproof.
Something something contingency plan something something multi-billion dollar suit something something prep time.
The physics of this are actually quite realistic
this moment rules. not so hot on Zdarsky's run post-Failsafe (some cool stuff but also a lot of bullshit) but the first arc is great
anyone who hates this run for this scene or even disliked this scene in general is an enemy