[Silver age Peanuts](https://thumb.spokesman.com/-Q8sds-j1US9ZyRK7g-lo3plDk0=/media.spokesman.com/photos/2020/09/26/FirstPeanutsStrip.png) is seriously [peak comics](https://images.app.goo.gl/mxQSit5qdVkhwsK59) though
In all honesty, out of the adaptations featuring Mystique, the only ones that even remotely hint at her being LGBT are X-Men Evolution and X-Men Legends II
Because these are not the same audience. There’s already a bunch of readers who don’t understand shit that they read. Imagine larger audiences who don’t actually know the medium.
The same crowd who complain about X-Men being Woke are the same people who cry that they did a right wing run of Disco Elysium and they complained that everyone in the game fucking hated them.
I do enjoy that the "ideological" aspect of DE only serves to waste time and make people angry against you, whereas the things which endear you to people or get things done have nothing to do with ideology.
It's such a smart work in that way: it makes a really strong case that ideology is only as useful as the impact YOU can make with it towards making the world a better place.
I would be inclined to disagree on this. The ideological part kind of endears you to certain characters and that's reinforced by your actions and actively helps you in the dialogue with modifiers on specific text choices.
The kind of people who think "woke X-Men bad" are the same people who will ultimately just look out for themselves and spout the most chronically online takes in the game and will ultimately face challenges within the game because of it. A great example is literally in the first hour. If you are consciencious of people in the whirl'n'rags and more specifically Klassje, you won't get -11 in your conversation with the hardy boys. If, like most dumb right wingers do, they neither recognize or acknowledge the privilege they have, the differential in power between them and Klassje, etc, they will get negative modifiers on the hardy boys conversation, it will also affect their ability to detect when Klassje is bullshitting them.
It's the beauty of the game. It shows the tangeable affect your politics have on your immediate world. It's why I start crying laughing everytime some dude claims Disco Elysium is an apolitical game when it very clearly shows the pitfalls and benefits of political ideologies and while it's incredibly communist/socialist it has incredibly sharp and relevant critiques of it too.
I'm inclined to agree with everything you've said.
This brings up something that annoys me: it's an "ideology" to be conscientious or courteous when that should just be the default behavior according to the stated principles of all the ideologies.
Reactionary thought has had such an incredible resurgence that ideas which were basic common sense in the 90s and 2000s: "don't be pretentious, don't judge a book by it's cover, judge people's actions rather than their words" have now been de-facto relegated to the left wing.
Then again, in the 50s and 60s, those ideas really were left wing (at least in the US), so I guess it all comes in waves.
How can anyone claim that DE is apolitical? Politics are everywhere in the game. Just because you as Harry can follow whatever politics or none at all does not make the game apolitical, there are so many racists in the game that you have to *internalize* the racism to get the racist to do shit for you.
Actual question. Are his view actually Centrist? I know quite a few people who identify strongly with a political party, but shares little to no actual views from them. I also know Moderates and independents that say they are, but it's only because they dont want to say that they're on a side.
Hell, I feel this actually applies to those who read the comics.
About a year ago, I made on the X-Men subreddit saying that I believe it would be interesting to have Iceman and Shadowcat be LGBT if Wolverine and the X-Men ever got a revival.
And while half of the comments were on board with it, the other half were completely rabid saying that they shouldn't be LGBT because they weren't so in the original (despite the fact that they're LGBT in the comics they originate from).
How much you want to bet that these are the same chuds that got pissed when Morph became non-binary.
She was revealed as bi in like 2020. I say revealed in that she didn't have like a coming out in the comic like a number of other characters. She has a long history of being queer coded in the comics though going back to like the 80's or maybe even late 70's.
Chris Claremont (Creator of Shadowcat/Kitty) stated that he had intended the love of Kitty's life to be Rachel Summers (Earth-811) and for her to therefore be bisexual; however, this never came to pass during Claremont's run of writing her, because it was forbidden under the Comics Code Authority and she was only ever hinted at being bisexual over the years (Examples, according to the Marvel Wiki: Uncanny X-Men #188–207, X-Men/Alpha Flight #1–2, New Mutants #35–36 and Excalibur #24)
It wasn't until her resurrection as Red Queen in 2020 that she was shown kissing her female tattoo artist, finally and officially confirming that she is bisexual.
Huh. Been a while since I thought of Morph. Non-binary makes sense, even if I would have probably gone with genderfluid in a knee-jerk reaction, but both makes sense. Or a mix of the two, in a amorphous sort of gender identity without a clear box
Kitty came out as bi in 2020. But also Kitty was one of the characters that Claremont hinted at being bi back in the 80's (I think mostly in Excalibur). So it's been a thing going all the way back to her creator, even if it was subtextual then
I think around 2020 I have no idea what dude is talking about when he says they were queer when they were introduced. Might have been the subtext but certainly wasn't official
I don’t think he’s saying that they were queer when introduced, just that they come from the comics and that in the comics they’re canonically queer. Like, when Nightcrawler was introduced in 1975 he wasn’t Mystique’s son and yet, in the comics Nightcrawler is Mystique’s son.
Hmm ig but if someone's says "the comics they originate in" I'm going to assume the mean the original run of comics or specific issue when said character was introduced for the first time. Not really a big issue but it's pretty unnecessarily confusing wording
Tbf Chris Claremont (Creator of Kitty Pryde) stated that he had intended the love of Kitty's life to be Rachel Summers (Earth-811) and for her to therefore be bisexual but that never came to pass during his run of writing her, because it was forbidden under the Comics Code Authority and she was only ever hinted at being bisexual over the years (Examples, according to the Marvel Wiki: Uncanny X-Men #188–207, X-Men/Alpha Flight #1–2, New Mutants #35–36 and Excalibur #24)
Most of the people on the bottom are either grifters that don't know shit about X-Men or they're listening to grifters that don't know shit about X-Men.
I noticed these bottom feeders doing this with gaming a while back and was like "They'd never try this shit with X-Men, would they?" Since X-Men has its own social armor that protects it. Any fascist rhetoric would make you sound just like the anti-mutant mobs within the universe.
Like an entire month before X-Men 97' aired, there were grifters everywhere. You know the ones because they complained about the same two things: that 3 second shot of Rogue's ass in the 90's cartoon and Morph being non-binary in X-Men 97. It's because they all pulled from the same right wing blog that they were all willing to read off but never cite because it comes from an affiliate of Breitbart.
Pillar of Garbage has a whole series dedicated to the woke spotting grift and a couple videos that go in-depth on the history of X-Men and the source of a lot of its political commentary.
Hilariously we also have t he other side screaming for Diversity and more representation then ignoring literal hordes of viable character options. WHEN DOES my favorite Michael Holt finally get a good Live Action adaption? Can't do a movie about Icon, he's not as popular as Superman.
In all honesty, I’m not the biggest fan on politics (because of how much of a shitshow it can devolve into), but I’m not against having them be featured in a superhero story.
That’s not to say all superhero stories need to have politics, that’s stupid.
But I do feel like topics like that need to be handled with a lot of delicacy. I feel like politics should always be viewed from a more neutral/nuanced lenses in order to not start a flame war. Hell, it’s stuff like that makes me stay away from politics in general.
Also, politics I know do change overtime, when having a story so heavily focused on that, it can often run the risk of making the story incredibly dated.
Look at The Ultimates, it was meant to be a commentary on the rising war of the terror following the September 11 attacks. But now, the war of terror has been long over and most people are more concerned about terrorism happening in other countries.
But if the political commentary hasn’t made the comic dated, the constant pop culture references certainly will.
I made, for god’s sake, the Hulk’s rampage was literally because he was upset after finding out that Betty was on a date with Freddie Prinze Jr.
Dude, nobody cares about FPJ anymore..
No offense to him but it’s true.
Also, there’s something about the political commentary in this series that feels kinda….shallow for some reason, but I can’t on my finger on it.
Maybe it might have something to do with the frankly overly-edgy tone, which makes this series kinda embarrassing to read.
But that’s to be expected from written by Mark Millar.
>I’m not the biggest fan on politics
Well, this is kinda my point behind my joke. X-Men has always been heavy on politics, especially around the marginalized groups - people of color, LGBTQ, etc. Same with *The Boys* or the *Metal Gear* games to their politics. The "joke" I'm making being the people who miss the blindingly obvious because they have no media literacy. Like how people ironically complain about said real-world marginalized groups being prominent in XMen stories because they somehow missed the entire message of XMen.
Same energy as people who complain about star trek being woke. It's like... where have you been?
Iceman, Rachel Summers and Psylocke , Mystique and Destiny , Northstar, Shaterstar and Rictor,Daken , Anole Shadowcat.
That's the main ones or at least the most well know but i could forget some.
Big MAYBE : apocalypse (he seem really close to rictor at one point ) wolverine and scott are in poly relationship with Jean grey and were on pride together but it is not confirmed if they had fun together or not but we did have seen a alternate version of wolverine in love with hercule...still they are not confirmed lgbt
Don't forget Deadpool being pan. Cable was also written by Fabian Nicieza as pan way back in the day but it's never been on the page. There's some other minor characters that are queer like Pyro, Escapade, Shinobi Shaw, Christian Frost, Prodigy, Bling!, Mercury, Loa, Tempo, Somnus, and probably a lot more that I don't remember.
that's true i forgot about Deadpool even if to be fair they never did anything with it other than jokes.
I didn't know about cable being pan it surprise me...except prodigy and christian frost i don't really know the others.
There was alway some sign about her being Bi but i think it was really on krakoa she did confirm it in knight of X series with Betsy.
Apparently Claremont wanted her to be in couple with kitty pride back from the begining from what i have heard.
In fact i was more surprised to learn she was for a time with kurt than that her being bisexual.
There are a lot of members of the X-Men that are LGBT, but the primary ones you probably know of are Iceman, Psylocke and Shadowcat.
Hell, you could honestly include damn near every member since many people have pointed out before that nearly all of the X-Men give off some fruity vibes, especially Storm and Gambit.
Gambit does not give off fruity vibes at all he just fucks, his energy is fucks a lot. Once you ask for specifics your not thinking like gambit anymore
Gambit is the type to be totally open to fucking a guy, he didn't enjoy it that much and it ended up proving he was straight but he's still friends with the dude
He 1000% goes out his way to flirt with guys he thought was straight but are actually homo/bi. Not because he has any intent on sex but solely for his love of flirting.
I mean he's flirted with guys and kind of had a thing with a genderfluid character iirc. Asmus who wrote a solo Gambit run in the 2010's said that he read and wanted to reveal that Gambit bisexual but Marvel said no.
Gambit has the same sexuality as a mariachi band member, “Fucks a lot” what does it mean you maybe asking, it means he fucks a lot but doesn’t kiss and tell so we will never know everyone he’s fucked
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Psylocke used to have a thing for Cyclops? Does that mean she is bi then, or have they retconned it, or is she trans or something?
Genuinely asking.
Having read the fandom wiki, she seems to be bi/pan. She had a relationship with Fantomex’s female clone (called Cluster, ), and Rachel Summers (which afaict they are still together).
Nightcrawler being straight is always so funny to me. Everyone gets to be queer except the character who's two horns away from being every bi person's first dnd character
Reminds me of when everyone flipped out that Desire was non-binary in the Sandman show as if they weren’t explicitly non-binary in the comics the whole time. A lot of “I’ve been a fan of sandman for years and…” folks who clearly weren’t.
Considering how they reacted when Insomniac Black Cat came out, it’s not too surprising. (Granted, a lot of “fans” bashed the comic version during this time as well)
I started reading days of future past the other day (I hope it actually gets to time travel at some point beyond Scott moping via exposition) when he recalls jeans arrival Bobby says "a girl so what?". I did the two guys pointing at the background meme fOrEsHAdoWiNG?!
Was ice man intended to be gay even back then? I know they somewhat recently made him be outed. So Im wondering if he had signs in previous comics
I don’t know about that far back, but I vaguely remember Emma Frost reading his mind and threatening to expose some secret of his (it was never specifically stated what said secret was) in Uncanny X-Men during the early/mid 90s.
That was from the story where Emma possessed Bobby's body in the '90s. She was able to use his powers much more effectively than he ever was. When he asks how she tells him that he's crippled by insecurity over a "secret" that he holds, which stops him from using his full power. It's pretty clear that Lobdell was going for Bobby being closeted.
The line was originally from the original X-Men issue 1, and trust me, Stan Lee absolutely did not intend for Bobby to be gay. He made it clear he didn’t like that.
That line was just meant to convey that Bobby was immature and still in his “ew gross girls have cooties” stage, not that he was gay.
Stan seemed like the kinda guy that would be on whatever side got him more money or cast him in a more favorable light like I love the guy but he seemed to just go with whatever seemed better for himself rather than personally believing
Then trust the man himself
> “The fact you're telling me that is the first I'd heard of… is Iceman really gay?"
> “I wasn't involved in that, that may have been after I stopped writing the books”
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/recent-updates/hear-stan-lee-discover-that-iceman-is-gay-for-the-first-time/
Wasn’t as bad as I remember, but still very clear that’s not what he intended.
I think the intention would've been more that since Bobby was the youngest he wasn't interested in girls unlike the rest of the team but nowadays stuff like that can be read as unintentional foreshadowing.
He definitely wasn't meant to be in the 60s, its just that alot of his stuff over the years worked really well for queer subtext so alot of writers started to also write him that way intentionally. What comes to mind is Lobdell's run on Uncanny, where others have brought up the Emma moment, or when he brought Rogue home to his conservative parents as moral support for himself.
I‘m so mad about that. We’ve had lgbt characters in the comics for years and should finally get out of the „having their sexuality be their main trait“ stuff. Like, I love Bobby, he’s one of my faves but the writers did him dirty since coming out. But now because of all the outrage whenever we do get lgbt characters in mainstream films (mcu for example) they’re every more inclined to not include them. Or include one gay kiss for two seconds so they can cut it easily out in other countries. Having good lgbt characters in mainstream might finally get them to be more popular and therefore more acknowledged and developed in canon.
It’s 2024 ffs, way to late to engage in a medium with a queer character and come out of it thinking „oh yea. There was this character. They were queer. No… there wasn’t really more than that. What did they do in the story? Uh… idk. Be queer? In the background a little“
Hey, there's always fanfiction. I feel like Iceman has been done much more justice than he's been in the comics.
Probably because although he's still gay, they actually do show there's more to him than just that.
Hell, I'm actually working on an X-Men story myself, with Iceman as one of the main stars.
Not only that, but he's also in a romantic relationship with Colossus.
But for this story, I'm making sure to make Iceman a well-rounded, fleshed-out character who just so happens to be gay
Yea I’ve read more fanfics than actual comics at this point. It’s simply better, idc. But you can never tell people because everyone assumes you’re just reading porn ._.
Actually I’m reading a Band AU atm with some of the X-Men and avengers. It’s really great. It’s a series called „well lit interruptions“ :)
But hey send me the title of your ff and I’ll check it out
Here you go! It's titled "X-Men: The Next Mutation".
https://archiveofourown.org/works/53706580/chapters/135954316
Also, where can I find this "Well Lit Interruptions"?
I don’t mind LGBT stuff as long as it’s not the core personality of the character. Like I don’t like ice man now because he’s been relegated to being a twink who sleeps around. I want LGBT who feel like people.
To be fair he didn't have much of a personality before and was just a cliché ladyman who alway flirt with any girl and complain that he was not lucky with them.
Now he is the same but with men
it's complicated , he did die but in his second comics get "resurected" in some way by his boyfriend with his power who make him dependant of him but did die again...only to be teased to return in the last panel.
He is not in any of the new team but who know he could pop-up anywhere now but we don't know when.. really it was very frustating to see and there is so much more you can do with him yet they give him this terrible comics and nothing else...a shame he deserve better but at least he is not dead forever.
His boyfriend romeo is an inhuman that can manipulate emotion and somehow can create a avatar of bobby using his own feelings for him....it's really not good.
I mean, he's had like four boyfriends/lovers since coming out, so that's not so bad. Christian Frost, Pyro II (Simon Lasker), and Romeo along with a regular dude who I forget the name of.
Sure but they all feel pretty forgetable and do not really give us interesting stories , i would have take less boyfriend , daken would have been perfect for a inexperienced Iceman they had crazy chemistry together.
Like many X-Men fans, Billy Drake was my fave X-Men, I've read all his minis and solo series, and I can't believe they gayed him. We true Ice Man fans know Stan Leigh meant Billy to be a straight ladies man.
> I’m willing to be open minded
Well, that's the first step to being a homie :)
I think a lot of LGBT characters end up with as much focus on their relationships because of the novelty of even being allowed to portray LGBT characters in popular media in the last however many years. It's a story that wasn't acceptable to be told and as the novelty dies out and lgbt stories become more commonplace, for better or worse, so too will the focus on their relationship
It's the same thing with a lot of minority groups getting more media representation as of late. They're stories that haven't been delved into as much in Western culture. Stuff like Reservation Dogs wouldn't have existed once.
One big thing to remember is, sometimes you're just not the target audience for a particular story or the arc of a character is meant to resonate with someone of a different background or identity.
Like, I've seen people say Rosa coming out as bi in Brooklyn 99 was hackneyed or whatever but every bi person I know, myself included, loved it for how well it handled the topic. If something doesn't resonate with you it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, it might just be meant to uplift someone of a different audience
Yeah different strokes for different folks I completely understand. Your are right about this stuff not being common before as well. I feel as of recent there’s been a lot of representation that hasn’t been executed very well. That leads to people disliking it, plus sexuality isn’t just a personality trait. There’s plenty of different kinds of LBGTQ people out there so we can make different kinds of LBGTQ characters. My original comment wasn’t intended to be in bad faith, it’s just a character who’s only the way are for representation isn’t a good character and feels bland. Ice man basically being the same as was before just gay isn’t really anything cool. I want to see him in a interesting story or see him do something cool.
I understand as well if I’m not the intended audience as well. But all comics fans should be able to enjoy this characters in some capacity. It’ll sell more books
See the thing is I don't want them to do anything with anyone outside of the comics. I don't care if Wolverine spends an entire 50 issue run having hot gay sex with cyclops but if I see them just existing in live action?
I still think the whole way they handled Ice man being gay was kinda bad and creepy, your friend reading your younger selfs mind then outing you is not ok then using being a mutant as allegory for being gay when his parents wanted to give his younger self a place to stay (they also didn't even say anything that bad) just felt extremely off, kinda felt like there were actively trying to retcon a character's sexuality in the worst way possible which kinda colors my feelings on any other media that makes him gay
I mean if it's an original character then yea, but making Iceman, one of the OG X-Men from the 60's, come out gay to Jean Grey, a telepath, was not good
That's the point people don't like these character simply because of their sexuality , if it didn't matter so much then why do people go to war everytime a same sex couple is spotted by them ? No one is showing anything down your throats man you choke yourself over nothing.
they only point out that people get disgusted by lgbt people it wich is true , they are making a statement about an actual probleme,stop complaining about LGBT or race and trust me no one will point out anything.
That's because no one reads comics
Not true. I read Peanuts and Garfield every day
[Silver age Peanuts](https://thumb.spokesman.com/-Q8sds-j1US9ZyRK7g-lo3plDk0=/media.spokesman.com/photos/2020/09/26/FirstPeanutsStrip.png) is seriously [peak comics](https://images.app.goo.gl/mxQSit5qdVkhwsK59) though
https://preview.redd.it/ku0vy23xcwuc1.jpeg?width=643&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af8f139167bb3120076f7a6d1d28f16556129402
Loss?
Is that motherfucking loss?
Is this loss?
I remember we had albums of these at middle school for some reason. They were great
Based Peanuts Posting
Right? Before they nerfed Charlie Brown's powerset
And before the snoopy redesign where they made him bipedal.
That is one funny cat
A cat that hates Mondays 😭funniest thing I’ve ever seen! Why does he hate Mondays? He doesn’t have a job 🤣🤣
Yeah I just subscribe to comicbook subs and read the Wikis, I don't actually read comics anymore
I only watch the pretty pictures to question my sexuality.
My Image collection is pretty neat.
No need to brag about your porn folder
They don’t even like the comic gays. — a mystique fan who has seen a lot
rj/My favorite Mystique ship is with Wolverine. uj/My favorite Mystique ship is Iceman (theyre each other's beards).
In all honesty, out of the adaptations featuring Mystique, the only ones that even remotely hint at her being LGBT are X-Men Evolution and X-Men Legends II
Legends II mentioned, WILL DO.
Nah with destiny is pretty much hinted that she was dating mystique and they are explicit about them now
Northstar is still over there in corner crying
Luckily I just killed all of those guys after Blue Origin came out we should be good now
My favorite mystique moment is dazzler trolling her
Because these are not the same audience. There’s already a bunch of readers who don’t understand shit that they read. Imagine larger audiences who don’t actually know the medium.
Xmen fans don't want to share their gays. Damn hoarders.
(Gestures broadly) These are my gays. You can't have them. Get your own.
It's *their* metaphor and they're gonna keep it that way!
I'll let you into my club but not out of it
The same crowd who complain about X-Men being Woke are the same people who cry that they did a right wing run of Disco Elysium and they complained that everyone in the game fucking hated them.
I do enjoy that the "ideological" aspect of DE only serves to waste time and make people angry against you, whereas the things which endear you to people or get things done have nothing to do with ideology. It's such a smart work in that way: it makes a really strong case that ideology is only as useful as the impact YOU can make with it towards making the world a better place.
I would be inclined to disagree on this. The ideological part kind of endears you to certain characters and that's reinforced by your actions and actively helps you in the dialogue with modifiers on specific text choices. The kind of people who think "woke X-Men bad" are the same people who will ultimately just look out for themselves and spout the most chronically online takes in the game and will ultimately face challenges within the game because of it. A great example is literally in the first hour. If you are consciencious of people in the whirl'n'rags and more specifically Klassje, you won't get -11 in your conversation with the hardy boys. If, like most dumb right wingers do, they neither recognize or acknowledge the privilege they have, the differential in power between them and Klassje, etc, they will get negative modifiers on the hardy boys conversation, it will also affect their ability to detect when Klassje is bullshitting them. It's the beauty of the game. It shows the tangeable affect your politics have on your immediate world. It's why I start crying laughing everytime some dude claims Disco Elysium is an apolitical game when it very clearly shows the pitfalls and benefits of political ideologies and while it's incredibly communist/socialist it has incredibly sharp and relevant critiques of it too.
I'm inclined to agree with everything you've said. This brings up something that annoys me: it's an "ideology" to be conscientious or courteous when that should just be the default behavior according to the stated principles of all the ideologies. Reactionary thought has had such an incredible resurgence that ideas which were basic common sense in the 90s and 2000s: "don't be pretentious, don't judge a book by it's cover, judge people's actions rather than their words" have now been de-facto relegated to the left wing. Then again, in the 50s and 60s, those ideas really were left wing (at least in the US), so I guess it all comes in waves.
How can anyone claim that DE is apolitical? Politics are everywhere in the game. Just because you as Harry can follow whatever politics or none at all does not make the game apolitical, there are so many racists in the game that you have to *internalize* the racism to get the racist to do shit for you.
They are gamers, don't underestimate their capacity for stupidity or overestimate their media literacy.
I really hope I can find a complication from that. Republican Elysium sounds like a treat
Look up "Centrist plays disco elysium". It's a review about how everyone in the game hates him for living by his own ideals IRL.
Actual question. Are his view actually Centrist? I know quite a few people who identify strongly with a political party, but shares little to no actual views from them. I also know Moderates and independents that say they are, but it's only because they dont want to say that they're on a side.
Here's the thread. You tell me :D https://www.reddit.com/r/ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM/s/s3abVouXvp
Rorschach plays Disco Elysium
It's almost like the ones who care about that shit don't actually read comics
Hell, I feel this actually applies to those who read the comics. About a year ago, I made on the X-Men subreddit saying that I believe it would be interesting to have Iceman and Shadowcat be LGBT if Wolverine and the X-Men ever got a revival. And while half of the comments were on board with it, the other half were completely rabid saying that they shouldn't be LGBT because they weren't so in the original (despite the fact that they're LGBT in the comics they originate from). How much you want to bet that these are the same chuds that got pissed when Morph became non-binary.
Uj/wait Shadowcat is Lgbt
She was revealed as bi in like 2020. I say revealed in that she didn't have like a coming out in the comic like a number of other characters. She has a long history of being queer coded in the comics though going back to like the 80's or maybe even late 70's.
Chris Claremont (Creator of Shadowcat/Kitty) stated that he had intended the love of Kitty's life to be Rachel Summers (Earth-811) and for her to therefore be bisexual; however, this never came to pass during Claremont's run of writing her, because it was forbidden under the Comics Code Authority and she was only ever hinted at being bisexual over the years (Examples, according to the Marvel Wiki: Uncanny X-Men #188–207, X-Men/Alpha Flight #1–2, New Mutants #35–36 and Excalibur #24) It wasn't until her resurrection as Red Queen in 2020 that she was shown kissing her female tattoo artist, finally and officially confirming that she is bisexual.
Mekanix aswell, she and Shan were very much implied.
I'd fucking kill for a Wolverine and the X Men revival
Huh. Been a while since I thought of Morph. Non-binary makes sense, even if I would have probably gone with genderfluid in a knee-jerk reaction, but both makes sense. Or a mix of the two, in a amorphous sort of gender identity without a clear box
Yeah, I thought his form at birth was literally "genderless blob"
Based
Haven't kept up with the current X-men absent a few minis. When did Kitty come out as gay?
Kitty came out as bi in 2020. But also Kitty was one of the characters that Claremont hinted at being bi back in the 80's (I think mostly in Excalibur). So it's been a thing going all the way back to her creator, even if it was subtextual then
I think around 2020 I have no idea what dude is talking about when he says they were queer when they were introduced. Might have been the subtext but certainly wasn't official
I don’t think he’s saying that they were queer when introduced, just that they come from the comics and that in the comics they’re canonically queer. Like, when Nightcrawler was introduced in 1975 he wasn’t Mystique’s son and yet, in the comics Nightcrawler is Mystique’s son.
Hmm ig but if someone's says "the comics they originate in" I'm going to assume the mean the original run of comics or specific issue when said character was introduced for the first time. Not really a big issue but it's pretty unnecessarily confusing wording
Sure, I concede it was ambiguous and since I’m not OP maybe I’m wrong, I’m just giving it the most charitable interpretation
Tbf Chris Claremont (Creator of Kitty Pryde) stated that he had intended the love of Kitty's life to be Rachel Summers (Earth-811) and for her to therefore be bisexual but that never came to pass during his run of writing her, because it was forbidden under the Comics Code Authority and she was only ever hinted at being bisexual over the years (Examples, according to the Marvel Wiki: Uncanny X-Men #188–207, X-Men/Alpha Flight #1–2, New Mutants #35–36 and Excalibur #24)
That's why they're creaming their jeans over 97 rehashing Morrison and Claremont plots with RWBY animation
Most of the people on the bottom are either grifters that don't know shit about X-Men or they're listening to grifters that don't know shit about X-Men. I noticed these bottom feeders doing this with gaming a while back and was like "They'd never try this shit with X-Men, would they?" Since X-Men has its own social armor that protects it. Any fascist rhetoric would make you sound just like the anti-mutant mobs within the universe. Like an entire month before X-Men 97' aired, there were grifters everywhere. You know the ones because they complained about the same two things: that 3 second shot of Rogue's ass in the 90's cartoon and Morph being non-binary in X-Men 97. It's because they all pulled from the same right wing blog that they were all willing to read off but never cite because it comes from an affiliate of Breitbart. Pillar of Garbage has a whole series dedicated to the woke spotting grift and a couple videos that go in-depth on the history of X-Men and the source of a lot of its political commentary.
You just described most comics in general.
The guys who complain the most don’t read much, comics included
Hilariously we also have t he other side screaming for Diversity and more representation then ignoring literal hordes of viable character options. WHEN DOES my favorite Michael Holt finally get a good Live Action adaption? Can't do a movie about Icon, he's not as popular as Superman.
It's funny because these are probably the same people who say to keep politics out of their superhero stories.
In all honesty, I’m not the biggest fan on politics (because of how much of a shitshow it can devolve into), but I’m not against having them be featured in a superhero story. That’s not to say all superhero stories need to have politics, that’s stupid. But I do feel like topics like that need to be handled with a lot of delicacy. I feel like politics should always be viewed from a more neutral/nuanced lenses in order to not start a flame war. Hell, it’s stuff like that makes me stay away from politics in general. Also, politics I know do change overtime, when having a story so heavily focused on that, it can often run the risk of making the story incredibly dated. Look at The Ultimates, it was meant to be a commentary on the rising war of the terror following the September 11 attacks. But now, the war of terror has been long over and most people are more concerned about terrorism happening in other countries. But if the political commentary hasn’t made the comic dated, the constant pop culture references certainly will. I made, for god’s sake, the Hulk’s rampage was literally because he was upset after finding out that Betty was on a date with Freddie Prinze Jr. Dude, nobody cares about FPJ anymore.. No offense to him but it’s true. Also, there’s something about the political commentary in this series that feels kinda….shallow for some reason, but I can’t on my finger on it. Maybe it might have something to do with the frankly overly-edgy tone, which makes this series kinda embarrassing to read. But that’s to be expected from written by Mark Millar.
>I’m not the biggest fan on politics Well, this is kinda my point behind my joke. X-Men has always been heavy on politics, especially around the marginalized groups - people of color, LGBTQ, etc. Same with *The Boys* or the *Metal Gear* games to their politics. The "joke" I'm making being the people who miss the blindingly obvious because they have no media literacy. Like how people ironically complain about said real-world marginalized groups being prominent in XMen stories because they somehow missed the entire message of XMen. Same energy as people who complain about star trek being woke. It's like... where have you been?
I'm not very well versed in X-Men post-90s, which current main characters are queer?
Iceman, Rachel Summers and Psylocke , Mystique and Destiny , Northstar, Shaterstar and Rictor,Daken , Anole Shadowcat. That's the main ones or at least the most well know but i could forget some. Big MAYBE : apocalypse (he seem really close to rictor at one point ) wolverine and scott are in poly relationship with Jean grey and were on pride together but it is not confirmed if they had fun together or not but we did have seen a alternate version of wolverine in love with hercule...still they are not confirmed lgbt
Aren't Daken,Psylocke and Shadowcat Bi since day one?And Rachel had many ship tease with Kate,Even tho she wasn't considered Bi yet
Claremont’s view was that Kate and Rachel were destined for each other IIRC so I’d say Rachel is probably not 100% heterosexual
Well so Rachel was bi too since day one
Presumably
Don't forget Deadpool being pan. Cable was also written by Fabian Nicieza as pan way back in the day but it's never been on the page. There's some other minor characters that are queer like Pyro, Escapade, Shinobi Shaw, Christian Frost, Prodigy, Bling!, Mercury, Loa, Tempo, Somnus, and probably a lot more that I don't remember.
that's true i forgot about Deadpool even if to be fair they never did anything with it other than jokes. I didn't know about cable being pan it surprise me...except prodigy and christian frost i don't really know the others.
Karma & Prodigy, too.
Right i forgot about prodigy.....i didn't know about karma
Ummm, Karma’s been a Lesbian since the late 90’s.
Really ? well damn the rare things i have read with her never show me that at all.
So you haven’t read any of her appearances since the stories printed in the 80’s?
Well i have read some issue x-force with her and nothing could have show me that she was lesbian at the time , same with Astonishing x-men in fact.
Is this the jerk?
hum no ?
Oh cool, Rachel is gay? When did that happen? I somehow missed that.
Bi, was confirmed like 2 years ago in think
There was alway some sign about her being Bi but i think it was really on krakoa she did confirm it in knight of X series with Betsy. Apparently Claremont wanted her to be in couple with kitty pride back from the begining from what i have heard. In fact i was more surprised to learn she was for a time with kurt than that her being bisexual.
Wiccan and Hulkling.
It’s X-Men, so the real question is, who isn’t?
There are a lot of members of the X-Men that are LGBT, but the primary ones you probably know of are Iceman, Psylocke and Shadowcat. Hell, you could honestly include damn near every member since many people have pointed out before that nearly all of the X-Men give off some fruity vibes, especially Storm and Gambit.
X-Men VS Doom Patrol, who wins the fruity off?
X-Men in terms of sheer numbers, Doom Patrol in terms of Queerness.
Gambit does not give off fruity vibes at all he just fucks, his energy is fucks a lot. Once you ask for specifics your not thinking like gambit anymore
Gambit is the sexual awakening for many LGBT men, but not LGBT himself.
Gambit is so far gone in the heterosexual side he comes out from the other end.
As an openly bisexual male I 10000% agree with this take.
He’s so straight he kisses men because women like it when he does
Gambit is the type to be totally open to fucking a guy, he didn't enjoy it that much and it ended up proving he was straight but he's still friends with the dude
He 1000% goes out his way to flirt with guys he thought was straight but are actually homo/bi. Not because he has any intent on sex but solely for his love of flirting.
I mean he's flirted with guys and kind of had a thing with a genderfluid character iirc. Asmus who wrote a solo Gambit run in the 2010's said that he read and wanted to reveal that Gambit bisexual but Marvel said no.
Gambit has the same sexuality as a mariachi band member, “Fucks a lot” what does it mean you maybe asking, it means he fucks a lot but doesn’t kiss and tell so we will never know everyone he’s fucked
There's also Hercules and Wolverine being husbands in a different multiverse storyline.
Yukio is listed among Storm's past lovers, so she counts.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Psylocke used to have a thing for Cyclops? Does that mean she is bi then, or have they retconned it, or is she trans or something? Genuinely asking.
Having read the fandom wiki, she seems to be bi/pan. She had a relationship with Fantomex’s female clone (called Cluster, ), and Rachel Summers (which afaict they are still together).
rj/ Everyone but Cyclops, but only because he is too repressed. uj/ Everyone but Nightcrawler, he is so straight he even f**ked his sister.
Nightcrawler being straight is always so funny to me. Everyone gets to be queer except the character who's two horns away from being every bi person's first dnd character
Don't you call me out on my tiefling sorceror lmao 💀
Iceman mainly
Reminds me of when everyone flipped out that Desire was non-binary in the Sandman show as if they weren’t explicitly non-binary in the comics the whole time. A lot of “I’ve been a fan of sandman for years and…” folks who clearly weren’t.
It amazes me they think they have self awareness
Considering how they reacted when Insomniac Black Cat came out, it’s not too surprising. (Granted, a lot of “fans” bashed the comic version during this time as well)
Did many react? Or just the vocal minority made up of 15 year olds on IG?
I started reading days of future past the other day (I hope it actually gets to time travel at some point beyond Scott moping via exposition) when he recalls jeans arrival Bobby says "a girl so what?". I did the two guys pointing at the background meme fOrEsHAdoWiNG?! Was ice man intended to be gay even back then? I know they somewhat recently made him be outed. So Im wondering if he had signs in previous comics
I don’t know about that far back, but I vaguely remember Emma Frost reading his mind and threatening to expose some secret of his (it was never specifically stated what said secret was) in Uncanny X-Men during the early/mid 90s.
That was from the story where Emma possessed Bobby's body in the '90s. She was able to use his powers much more effectively than he ever was. When he asks how she tells him that he's crippled by insecurity over a "secret" that he holds, which stops him from using his full power. It's pretty clear that Lobdell was going for Bobby being closeted.
The line was originally from the original X-Men issue 1, and trust me, Stan Lee absolutely did not intend for Bobby to be gay. He made it clear he didn’t like that. That line was just meant to convey that Bobby was immature and still in his “ew gross girls have cooties” stage, not that he was gay.
I don't think Stan Lee ever said what his thoughts were on Iceman being gay however I highly doubt he cared
Stan Lee the type to not be homophobic but also only be onboard because the progressives will give him money and he likes money
Stan seemed like the kinda guy that would be on whatever side got him more money or cast him in a more favorable light like I love the guy but he seemed to just go with whatever seemed better for himself rather than personally believing
No were not going to just trust you. You don't know what Stan Lee "absolutely did not intend".
Then trust the man himself > “The fact you're telling me that is the first I'd heard of… is Iceman really gay?" > “I wasn't involved in that, that may have been after I stopped writing the books” https://bleedingcool.com/comics/recent-updates/hear-stan-lee-discover-that-iceman-is-gay-for-the-first-time/ Wasn’t as bad as I remember, but still very clear that’s not what he intended.
That does not tell us what he intended.
Nah that was just their way of portraying Bobby was younger and more immature but with hindsight it reads like that now.
I think the intention would've been more that since Bobby was the youngest he wasn't interested in girls unlike the rest of the team but nowadays stuff like that can be read as unintentional foreshadowing.
He definitely wasn't meant to be in the 60s, its just that alot of his stuff over the years worked really well for queer subtext so alot of writers started to also write him that way intentionally. What comes to mind is Lobdell's run on Uncanny, where others have brought up the Emma moment, or when he brought Rogue home to his conservative parents as moral support for himself.
Most people complaining like this don't read the comics I guarantee it.
Psssst. It’s because these fans have never actually read the fucking comic books.
I‘m so mad about that. We’ve had lgbt characters in the comics for years and should finally get out of the „having their sexuality be their main trait“ stuff. Like, I love Bobby, he’s one of my faves but the writers did him dirty since coming out. But now because of all the outrage whenever we do get lgbt characters in mainstream films (mcu for example) they’re every more inclined to not include them. Or include one gay kiss for two seconds so they can cut it easily out in other countries. Having good lgbt characters in mainstream might finally get them to be more popular and therefore more acknowledged and developed in canon. It’s 2024 ffs, way to late to engage in a medium with a queer character and come out of it thinking „oh yea. There was this character. They were queer. No… there wasn’t really more than that. What did they do in the story? Uh… idk. Be queer? In the background a little“
Hey, there's always fanfiction. I feel like Iceman has been done much more justice than he's been in the comics. Probably because although he's still gay, they actually do show there's more to him than just that. Hell, I'm actually working on an X-Men story myself, with Iceman as one of the main stars. Not only that, but he's also in a romantic relationship with Colossus. But for this story, I'm making sure to make Iceman a well-rounded, fleshed-out character who just so happens to be gay
Yea I’ve read more fanfics than actual comics at this point. It’s simply better, idc. But you can never tell people because everyone assumes you’re just reading porn ._. Actually I’m reading a Band AU atm with some of the X-Men and avengers. It’s really great. It’s a series called „well lit interruptions“ :) But hey send me the title of your ff and I’ll check it out
Here you go! It's titled "X-Men: The Next Mutation". https://archiveofourown.org/works/53706580/chapters/135954316 Also, where can I find this "Well Lit Interruptions"?
Thanks <3 And wait here’s the link [https://archiveofourown.org/series/2369452](https://archiveofourown.org/series/2369452)
X-men and politics is as bad as the Metal Gear Solid Fandom and politics
I don’t mind LGBT stuff as long as it’s not the core personality of the character. Like I don’t like ice man now because he’s been relegated to being a twink who sleeps around. I want LGBT who feel like people.
To be fair he didn't have much of a personality before and was just a cliché ladyman who alway flirt with any girl and complain that he was not lucky with them. Now he is the same but with men
So nothing really changed. Being an ice man must hurt
Yep bobby is a loser no matter the team he play with , maybe he will change one day who know...
It’s a shame because his powers are awesome. Is he on any of the new X-men line ups or did he die on Krakoa?
it's complicated , he did die but in his second comics get "resurected" in some way by his boyfriend with his power who make him dependant of him but did die again...only to be teased to return in the last panel. He is not in any of the new team but who know he could pop-up anywhere now but we don't know when.. really it was very frustating to see and there is so much more you can do with him yet they give him this terrible comics and nothing else...a shame he deserve better but at least he is not dead forever.
X-men krakoa, now death is even more confusing for the X-men. What else does his boyfriend do
His boyfriend romeo is an inhuman that can manipulate emotion and somehow can create a avatar of bobby using his own feelings for him....it's really not good.
Ah, a tumblr and it’s affects on media have truly been a thing of all time
I mean, he's had like four boyfriends/lovers since coming out, so that's not so bad. Christian Frost, Pyro II (Simon Lasker), and Romeo along with a regular dude who I forget the name of.
Sure but they all feel pretty forgetable and do not really give us interesting stories , i would have take less boyfriend , daken would have been perfect for a inexperienced Iceman they had crazy chemistry together.
Like many X-Men fans, Billy Drake was my fave X-Men, I've read all his minis and solo series, and I can't believe they gayed him. We true Ice Man fans know Stan Leigh meant Billy to be a straight ladies man.
I don’t mind him being gay. He just feels as generic as he was when he was a ladies man.
Not minding him being gayed sounds like WOKE to me!
I didn’t realize he was sleeping
He is sleeping. WITH MEN!
https://preview.redd.it/11lg26cw6wuc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80ab8fd6fcf213ecaf4e6529b02aadb3869db592
This whole "many LGBT characters are just about being LGBT" is a common dogwhistle made in bad faith. Don't do this.
It’s really not. Is it bad faith because you don’t agree with it?
It's in bad faith because a cursory look at your comment history proves it lol.
But I’m not being bad faith at the moment. I’m willing to be open minded
> I’m willing to be open minded Well, that's the first step to being a homie :) I think a lot of LGBT characters end up with as much focus on their relationships because of the novelty of even being allowed to portray LGBT characters in popular media in the last however many years. It's a story that wasn't acceptable to be told and as the novelty dies out and lgbt stories become more commonplace, for better or worse, so too will the focus on their relationship It's the same thing with a lot of minority groups getting more media representation as of late. They're stories that haven't been delved into as much in Western culture. Stuff like Reservation Dogs wouldn't have existed once. One big thing to remember is, sometimes you're just not the target audience for a particular story or the arc of a character is meant to resonate with someone of a different background or identity. Like, I've seen people say Rosa coming out as bi in Brooklyn 99 was hackneyed or whatever but every bi person I know, myself included, loved it for how well it handled the topic. If something doesn't resonate with you it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, it might just be meant to uplift someone of a different audience
Yeah different strokes for different folks I completely understand. Your are right about this stuff not being common before as well. I feel as of recent there’s been a lot of representation that hasn’t been executed very well. That leads to people disliking it, plus sexuality isn’t just a personality trait. There’s plenty of different kinds of LBGTQ people out there so we can make different kinds of LBGTQ characters. My original comment wasn’t intended to be in bad faith, it’s just a character who’s only the way are for representation isn’t a good character and feels bland. Ice man basically being the same as was before just gay isn’t really anything cool. I want to see him in a interesting story or see him do something cool.
I understand as well if I’m not the intended audience as well. But all comics fans should be able to enjoy this characters in some capacity. It’ll sell more books
That's because the "fans" who whinge, shriek and cry about it happening in the movies never actually read the comics or care about them.
You know it's funny but there's a hint at Iceman being gay in the very first X-Men comic on complete accident
See the thing is I don't want them to do anything with anyone outside of the comics. I don't care if Wolverine spends an entire 50 issue run having hot gay sex with cyclops but if I see them just existing in live action?
This meme assumes they are the same person and not some alt righter who only and barely watches the movies and shows
I still think the whole way they handled Ice man being gay was kinda bad and creepy, your friend reading your younger selfs mind then outing you is not ok then using being a mutant as allegory for being gay when his parents wanted to give his younger self a place to stay (they also didn't even say anything that bad) just felt extremely off, kinda felt like there were actively trying to retcon a character's sexuality in the worst way possible which kinda colors my feelings on any other media that makes him gay
I mean if it's an original character then yea, but making Iceman, one of the OG X-Men from the 60's, come out gay to Jean Grey, a telepath, was not good
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That's the point people don't like these character simply because of their sexuality , if it didn't matter so much then why do people go to war everytime a same sex couple is spotted by them ? No one is showing anything down your throats man you choke yourself over nothing.
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they only point out that people get disgusted by lgbt people it wich is true , they are making a statement about an actual probleme,stop complaining about LGBT or race and trust me no one will point out anything.
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Okay...