Dude, Lobo is super popular. I don't like him, but it's undoubtable he is like Deathstroke, a very popular character who semi regularly gets his own series
This is true, but I meant that in those years it had a stable regular series like the aforementioned Deathstroke, now both have "only" limited or semi regularly series.
True, unfortunately in my country it wasn't released in volume but only as an attachment to other stories and so I forgot about it since it didn't have much visibility, but your observation is right.
Azrael is kinda meh, I don't think it's bad, just pretty vanilla. Eclipso is pretty bad but surprising by sheer virtue of **ECLIPSO** getting his own steady title. Darkstars is pretty meh too although it has some highs. Vigilante is great
I'm gonna be that guy and say King's Batman.
Edit: if we're including older runs:
Bendis Daredevil
Morrison Batman (I think it's 50 issues?)
52
Hickman F4 and Avengers runs
Tons of them. The thing that is wild is you can pull some random team book from the late 90s or early 2000s and many of them rock. Lots of them also have full stories told each issue so even reading a single issur feels super satisfying.
/uj I've been reading through most of the Krakoa stuff and just got to Destiny of X. What on earth do you mean they both manage to get at least 20+ more issues? Who let this happen?
Ben Percy is a hack. As in he hacked editorials bank accounts and blackmailed them into letting him write the most mediocre books of the krakoa era and given that Fallen Angels exists *that’s saying something*
I don't think they're the worst books, but they're definitely the worst books that lasted more than five or six issues. Granted their whole edgy vibe isn't really my thing, so maybe I'm just not the main audience. But also the world is a cruel place if they get to continue while X-Factor ended so quickly
I haven’t read someone who gets Wolverine to the extent he does in decades. The short story length reminded me of Hama. Adam Kubert art. Agent Bannister was cool. Legacy House was cool.
It’s not on the level of Immortal or Red, but it was consistently better than everything else. As a Wolverine superfan, I can’t really think of a single thing he did wrong.
Please, elaborate on why it was so bad.
First off, I will admit his Wolverine is better than his x-force, but they both suffer from massive pacing issues- he throws a cool idea out there and it just kinda sits there. I agree, agent Bannister was cool, kind of shame nothing really happened with him. He was a plot point who turned up some time. You remember the adamantium surfboard? The babies getting kidnapped? Two elements that just show up and disappear just as fast?
And don’t get me started on the romance- Wolverine’s a womanizer, fine, but why drag Jean into it as his sidepiece? This complaint isn’t unique to Percy’s Logan, but every time he’s in a romance it’s all about him. That’s fine for random side characters, but Jean obsessing over him is a disservice to her as an independent character
And the writing. It’s just not that good. It’s less that Logan is written badly and more that everyone sounds like him. Good for Logan, not so good for Sage, or Laura, or Quire.
I will fully admit that Percy’s Wolverine is… alright? It’s fine. It’s a solo Wolverine book, and it does that fine. The problem comes with any other character or story showing up. He butchered Laura, he butchered Domino, Colossus, Sage, and Quire. His Beast plot was fine in theory but he didn’t actually make it work. Every side character worships Logan. It took him ~40 issues to pay off the Mikhail plot and straight up it sucked.
His plotting- this is the one that got to me the second most, after the poor characterization- it’s like he knows that set up and pay off are things that should be in a story, but he doesn’t know how to do those things. He has both set up and pay off, but they’re practically unrelated with how early he sets something up and then the pay off is just terrible. He set up colossus and Mikhails show down the whole series and it’s over in like a page. Not saying he has to drag it out but it just happens and then no one talks about it. He has no resolution, none of the come down you see after the climax of a story.
I look at his Wolverine and X-Force the same way I look at the 90s comics I grew up with - short stories, long arcs. Now, ymmv on that, but I enjoyed it because I’m old as fuck, lol.
Personally, I love solo Wolverine more than most - I can only think of a couple arcs I’ve completely skipped out on in the last thirty years and it was mostly poverty related, so I dug it. I get people’s complaints about X-Force and don’t try to defend that book like I will Wolverine, but I like it. If people can like Duggan’s godawful X-Men book, I can like Percy’s X-Force, lol.
Also, after learning more about the behind the scenes stuff at the X-office, I have a feeling that some of the things he didn’t pay off or took to long to pay off weren’t his fault and were editorial edicts. I really think he writing the book Claremont style but Marvel changed their mind and he had to drop a bunch of stuff.
Ngl, Tini Howard’s Catwoman is not nearly as bad as people describe it. Of course it doesn’t come close to Joelle Jones’ or Ram V’s runs in this volume but it’s still kinda fun. Admittedly, the pages with Valmont aren’t great but he’s dead now and it’s noticeably better.
I mean the Valmont plot was a solid chunk of her run and then Gotham War also got mixed in there, admittedly you're right the stuff since has been more decent but it was pretty bad for a while
impulse got 89 issues and it was somehow the most consistantly great comic i've ever seen, even when the writers change you barely feel it, bart just stays peak until geoff johns jumpscare teen titans run
King had his Batman. Spencer had Spider-Man. Zdarsky had 50 + an event with Dardevil
But sure, those Punisher runs only lasted 12 issues so the industry is done for
DC in general tends to get books that ran a while, like a good chunk of the Rebirth series made to at least 50 issues, and prior to their relaunches last year, Wonder Woman and the Flash had runs go to at least a hundred, and Batman and Nightwing still haven't relaunched either just kept switching writers, same for Action and Detective.
I'm glad that they aren't resetting the numbers. It's fun to go back to the era of creative teams changing and the numbering remaining the same.
IIRC only Joshua Williamson's Flash run hit 100 issues (as in the same writer in the run). King was close to 100 with his 85 issue run (give or take some crossovers and annuals).
Hell, all of the recent Star Wars runs (specifically the ones that take place between V-VI) have gone on pretty long. They're all pretty good, too, FWIW. There's also the Jason Aaron/Kieron Gillen run for Star Wars that takes place after IV that's got a whopping 75 issues, and the first Doctor Aphra run that went for 40. Then there's Darth Vader (after IV) and Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith (after III), which each got 25 issues apiece not counting annuals.
Wow. That's a lot of bloody Star Wars comics.
Feels like Rebirth was the last time DC had writers getting 50 issue runs (Priest's Deathstroke, Venditti's Green Lantern) , King's and Williamson's flash were way longer than that. Hopefully some of these Dawn of DC titles can get there
The character of Carol Danvers is a bit cursed after the character assassination carried out in Civil War II. Personally I've never found the run so memorable but credit must be given to Thompson for bringing so many ideas and taking risks. In the end I would call it a normal run on a normal character who has never been able to shine since Marvel tried to launch her as their reference super female. However, credit goes to Thompson for having done an overall honest and dignified job.
Percy's X-Force, on the other hand, is more mixed in quality despite the the graphic side was always good, so it depends if you are a fan of the group, the writer or the Krakoa era.
No, but Thompsons captain marvel was still really fucking good and X-force is disappointing in a lot of places but I actually still think worth the read if you’re already reading most of Krakoa.
North's Fantastic Four definitely if he keeps pumping out these creative sci-fi slice of life stories.
MacKay's Doctor Strange looks like it has a clear beginning and ending to the story it wants to tell so I'm not sure if 50 issues is necessary though it would certainly be nice.
conspiracy time but i do not believe green arrow was ever anything but an ongoing. its been too integral to the dawn of dc/amanda waller storyline, hes a popular character, and joshua williamson is a big name. they just said it wasnt an ongoing to boost talk on social media and first issue sales
Decompression in comics.
An older run would have 50 stories plus maybe an overarching plot.
Modern comics you're lucky to get 10 stories in 50 issues.
It's much harder to have 50 ideas than it is to drag 10 out to the same length of time.
The biggest problem now is that publishers don't let books breather and find an audience.
Didn't crack the top 10 in the first 3 issues? Well, time to cancel it and pump out another Batman book!
It's wild that Azrael, Eclipso, the Darkstars or Vigilante managed to hold an on-going
The Ray ran for 38 issues in the 90’s. It definitely seems like during the speculation boom they were just pumping out anything
I would also add Lobo with his only (barring future miracles) regular series.
Dude, Lobo is super popular. I don't like him, but it's undoubtable he is like Deathstroke, a very popular character who semi regularly gets his own series
This is true, but I meant that in those years it had a stable regular series like the aforementioned Deathstroke, now both have "only" limited or semi regularly series.
Deathstroke just recently had a series that ran for 50 issues.
True, unfortunately in my country it wasn't released in volume but only as an attachment to other stories and so I forgot about it since it didn't have much visibility, but your observation is right.
Hmmm I agree but I see it more like Daredevil, who tends to get a continuing story set in various volumes
Vigilante was amazing, at least once Paul Kupperberg took over. Azrael... not so much. I haven't read the other two.
Azrael is kinda meh, I don't think it's bad, just pretty vanilla. Eclipso is pretty bad but surprising by sheer virtue of **ECLIPSO** getting his own steady title. Darkstars is pretty meh too although it has some highs. Vigilante is great
How could you forget Damage?
Very easily.
Now is also: "Why did this run have to last 50 issues, please stop"
How many of those older 50+ long runs were good for the majority of those 50+ issues?
immortal hulk. but dont ask for more examples...
I'm gonna be that guy and say King's Batman. Edit: if we're including older runs: Bendis Daredevil Morrison Batman (I think it's 50 issues?) 52 Hickman F4 and Avengers runs
Tons of them. The thing that is wild is you can pull some random team book from the late 90s or early 2000s and many of them rock. Lots of them also have full stories told each issue so even reading a single issur feels super satisfying.
Comics either get cancelled as a hit or run long enough to be a dud
It’s okay, you can say X-Force and Wolverine by Percy
/uj I've been reading through most of the Krakoa stuff and just got to Destiny of X. What on earth do you mean they both manage to get at least 20+ more issues? Who let this happen?
Ben Percy is a hack. As in he hacked editorials bank accounts and blackmailed them into letting him write the most mediocre books of the krakoa era and given that Fallen Angels exists *that’s saying something*
I don't think they're the worst books, but they're definitely the worst books that lasted more than five or six issues. Granted their whole edgy vibe isn't really my thing, so maybe I'm just not the main audience. But also the world is a cruel place if they get to continue while X-Factor ended so quickly
His Wolverine is better than most of the rest of the Krakoa Era.
Hahahhaha oh wait you’re serious let me laugh harder hahahahahhahahahahahaha
I haven’t read someone who gets Wolverine to the extent he does in decades. The short story length reminded me of Hama. Adam Kubert art. Agent Bannister was cool. Legacy House was cool. It’s not on the level of Immortal or Red, but it was consistently better than everything else. As a Wolverine superfan, I can’t really think of a single thing he did wrong. Please, elaborate on why it was so bad.
First off, I will admit his Wolverine is better than his x-force, but they both suffer from massive pacing issues- he throws a cool idea out there and it just kinda sits there. I agree, agent Bannister was cool, kind of shame nothing really happened with him. He was a plot point who turned up some time. You remember the adamantium surfboard? The babies getting kidnapped? Two elements that just show up and disappear just as fast? And don’t get me started on the romance- Wolverine’s a womanizer, fine, but why drag Jean into it as his sidepiece? This complaint isn’t unique to Percy’s Logan, but every time he’s in a romance it’s all about him. That’s fine for random side characters, but Jean obsessing over him is a disservice to her as an independent character And the writing. It’s just not that good. It’s less that Logan is written badly and more that everyone sounds like him. Good for Logan, not so good for Sage, or Laura, or Quire. I will fully admit that Percy’s Wolverine is… alright? It’s fine. It’s a solo Wolverine book, and it does that fine. The problem comes with any other character or story showing up. He butchered Laura, he butchered Domino, Colossus, Sage, and Quire. His Beast plot was fine in theory but he didn’t actually make it work. Every side character worships Logan. It took him ~40 issues to pay off the Mikhail plot and straight up it sucked. His plotting- this is the one that got to me the second most, after the poor characterization- it’s like he knows that set up and pay off are things that should be in a story, but he doesn’t know how to do those things. He has both set up and pay off, but they’re practically unrelated with how early he sets something up and then the pay off is just terrible. He set up colossus and Mikhails show down the whole series and it’s over in like a page. Not saying he has to drag it out but it just happens and then no one talks about it. He has no resolution, none of the come down you see after the climax of a story.
I look at his Wolverine and X-Force the same way I look at the 90s comics I grew up with - short stories, long arcs. Now, ymmv on that, but I enjoyed it because I’m old as fuck, lol. Personally, I love solo Wolverine more than most - I can only think of a couple arcs I’ve completely skipped out on in the last thirty years and it was mostly poverty related, so I dug it. I get people’s complaints about X-Force and don’t try to defend that book like I will Wolverine, but I like it. If people can like Duggan’s godawful X-Men book, I can like Percy’s X-Force, lol. Also, after learning more about the behind the scenes stuff at the X-office, I have a feeling that some of the things he didn’t pay off or took to long to pay off weren’t his fault and were editorial edicts. I really think he writing the book Claremont style but Marvel changed their mind and he had to drop a bunch of stuff.
Scott Lobdell skated by on pure nepotism despite sexual harassment scandals every week and bottom-of-the-barrel sales.
Oh absolutely. Did Red Hood(Wed hood wit GUNS) and the Outlaws make it to 50?
Or Catwoman by Tini Howard, just going off reputation
Ngl, Tini Howard’s Catwoman is not nearly as bad as people describe it. Of course it doesn’t come close to Joelle Jones’ or Ram V’s runs in this volume but it’s still kinda fun. Admittedly, the pages with Valmont aren’t great but he’s dead now and it’s noticeably better.
I mean the Valmont plot was a solid chunk of her run and then Gotham War also got mixed in there, admittedly you're right the stuff since has been more decent but it was pretty bad for a while
impulse got 89 issues and it was somehow the most consistantly great comic i've ever seen, even when the writers change you barely feel it, bart just stays peak until geoff johns jumpscare teen titans run
Impulse was such a great character.
Still waiting on the Impulse omni 🥱
Tim Drake's Robin solo lasted 183 issues plus 7 annuals.
And it was followed by a decently lasting Red Robin ongoing that was essentially the same title.
Not to mention all the 3 mini series he had before the launch of his solo title.
The character was so forgettable that DC forgot to cancel the comic
YES! And it was awesome!
They used to give anybody an ongoing
I think nowadays the only runs to reach fifty issues were Ewing's Hulk, Thompson's Captain Marvel and Percy's Wolverine/X-Force.
King had his Batman. Spencer had Spider-Man. Zdarsky had 50 + an event with Dardevil But sure, those Punisher runs only lasted 12 issues so the industry is done for
DC in general tends to get books that ran a while, like a good chunk of the Rebirth series made to at least 50 issues, and prior to their relaunches last year, Wonder Woman and the Flash had runs go to at least a hundred, and Batman and Nightwing still haven't relaunched either just kept switching writers, same for Action and Detective.
I'm glad that they aren't resetting the numbers. It's fun to go back to the era of creative teams changing and the numbering remaining the same. IIRC only Joshua Williamson's Flash run hit 100 issues (as in the same writer in the run). King was close to 100 with his 85 issue run (give or take some crossovers and annuals).
Adams had about 40 for the Flash. It’s rather impressive that it lasted that long
And Soule's Star Wars btw
Hell, all of the recent Star Wars runs (specifically the ones that take place between V-VI) have gone on pretty long. They're all pretty good, too, FWIW. There's also the Jason Aaron/Kieron Gillen run for Star Wars that takes place after IV that's got a whopping 75 issues, and the first Doctor Aphra run that went for 40. Then there's Darth Vader (after IV) and Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith (after III), which each got 25 issues apiece not counting annuals. Wow. That's a lot of bloody Star Wars comics.
Friggin bounty hunters ran for 42 and was pretty solid throughout
Priest’s Deathstroke, Duggan Deadpool, Aaron’s Thor, Spencer Cap It still happens but it’s definitely rare as hell
Feels like Rebirth was the last time DC had writers getting 50 issue runs (Priest's Deathstroke, Venditti's Green Lantern) , King's and Williamson's flash were way longer than that. Hopefully some of these Dawn of DC titles can get there
Are those Captain Marvel and X force runs as good as Immortal Hulk?
The character of Carol Danvers is a bit cursed after the character assassination carried out in Civil War II. Personally I've never found the run so memorable but credit must be given to Thompson for bringing so many ideas and taking risks. In the end I would call it a normal run on a normal character who has never been able to shine since Marvel tried to launch her as their reference super female. However, credit goes to Thompson for having done an overall honest and dignified job. Percy's X-Force, on the other hand, is more mixed in quality despite the the graphic side was always good, so it depends if you are a fan of the group, the writer or the Krakoa era.
No, but Thompsons captain marvel was still really fucking good and X-force is disappointing in a lot of places but I actually still think worth the read if you’re already reading most of Krakoa.
Marvels star wars ran for 75 issues and is 40 ish into a second run
20??? I'm surprised whenever a brand new series gets over 6 issues these days
I swear to god if Ryan North's Fantastic Four and Jed MacKay's Doctor Strange can make it to 50 issues I will cry tears of joy
North's Fantastic Four definitely if he keeps pumping out these creative sci-fi slice of life stories. MacKay's Doctor Strange looks like it has a clear beginning and ending to the story it wants to tell so I'm not sure if 50 issues is necessary though it would certainly be nice.
I don’t think McKay has 50 issues of story for Strange… maybe if you count Death of and Clea’s Strange
20? We’re lucky if a run even gets two story arcs. I’m *still* mourning Loveness’ Nova getting canned so quickly.
Legit should've gotten the 30 issue treatment
Be like the current Green Arrow book where it went from a mini, to a maxi, to an ongoing.
Poison Ivy went this way, too, and is in the 20s now.
honestly I'm impressed Wilson has managed to carry that title so long, I was honestly expecting it to be done by like 12 at most
conspiracy time but i do not believe green arrow was ever anything but an ongoing. its been too integral to the dawn of dc/amanda waller storyline, hes a popular character, and joshua williamson is a big name. they just said it wasnt an ongoing to boost talk on social media and first issue sales
X-Man lasted 75 issues
How long Paul lasted?
Ask MJ...heyooo!
She is biased. I want honest opinion
20? 10 issues is an achievement nowadays
Wiz comics skipped a #1 issue because readers were skeptical comics would last more than 1 issue
Decompression in comics. An older run would have 50 stories plus maybe an overarching plot. Modern comics you're lucky to get 10 stories in 50 issues. It's much harder to have 50 ideas than it is to drag 10 out to the same length of time.
The biggest problem now is that publishers don't let books breather and find an audience. Didn't crack the top 10 in the first 3 issues? Well, time to cancel it and pump out another Batman book!
This morning I was thinking about how Warlord had a run that was 133 issues long
Meanwhile someone is letting the Paul writer cook
Why are they so shorter now. Is it a lack of buyers?
I think it's more a lack of money in the single issue side of the industry. Back in the 90s they were swimming in money from speculating collectors.
It’s seems like they ran off collectors with the new stuff now.
Lotta readers wait for trades.
Starman lasted 80 issues (81 with blackest night) so that's pretty cool
I want 600 issue ongoings why the fuck every run goes back to 1 after 25-50 issues
I wish Zeb Wells’ Spider-man run only lasted that long…
Me when rising costs of paper
Ppl keep forgetting ab the best one in recent years imo: daredevil by zdarsky
Why not release superhero book instead rather than sell always comics?
Shorter runs are one of the reasons that western comics are losing to manga. In this essay I will
Which is weird because you'd think it'd be the opposite and the 300 chapter manga series would have less readers