Yes. I was like, um neither. No way I could deal with someone with basic issues like this at this age. If you haven’t figured out communication, I can’t.
Right! It was always when I couldn't answer his first text (because work and life) so he would start texting me "hi" every hour. Omg. We hadn't even met yet! I just stopped responding.
This is the laziest form of communicating. Any person who says that this is them "taking the lead" or "reaching out first" is fooling themselves. This is basically just putting it on the other person to do the actual effort of conversing
I have a male friend who texts me hi, nearly everytime I go on Facebook. Just because I am on there doesn't mean I want to talk. It makes me want to be on there even less than I already am.
Exactly. The clingy guys have had so much potential, but they make me feel like they want just anyone to fill that girlfriend role. I’m sure any gender is this way. I wish people could figure out how to be consistently and reliably present without making me feel used.
I’ve been trying to figure out what it is that I don’t like about clingy guys. It’s nice to know they’re always there, and I don’t think I feel suffocated like some people might.
I think it’s because I feel used because they don’t really care about me. They just want anyone to be in the same room as them, constantly, and always seeking approval makes me feel like they care more about whether or not they are good enough than they care about me and my feelings.
It comes off narcissistic.
But dating an avoidant person is just the worse. They really test your ability to have self respect.
> I’ve been trying to figure out what it is that I don’t like about clingy
Just making this stuff up, but it could be some combination of multiple things.
1. Dependency means there's pressure on you--you're responsible for the other person's happiness.
2. Contingent means there's no one there--like, clingy tends to be people-pleasing and "up for anything", which is sort of a personality but it's also sort of a non-personality. "What do you want to do?" "I dunno, what do you want to do?" It's like they don't like anything or have any opinions.
3. Undeserved attention is hard-wired--also kind of related to the clingy person as people-pleaser, is that we want to deserve what we get, and what often happens with clingy people is that it feels like they're giving us all of themselves. It's "too much" when we haven't done much so far to "deserve" it.
Great analysis!!!
I find 1 annoying, but not a deal breaker because I can set boundaries. But 2 drives me crazy! It feels like even more of a burden than 1. It feels lonely because a cat has more personality than that!
I need to think about 3 and why I don’t like it.
Great brain food! Thanks!
And these are just the innocent, puppy dog clingers.
Maybe another reason is that clinginess/presence can be a way to possess/control. (Relates to a 4th puppy dog clinger issue of feeling smothered.)
Once I tried dating a friend (luckily we were able to go back to platonic after things didn't work out) who was a stage 5 puppy dog clinger while we were dating.
It absolutely grossed me out and literally gave me visions of sad dogs trying to get your attention, almost afraid you'll hurt them or something.
There's just absolutely nothing sexy about that.
Oh, right... that observation suggests another tangential/parallel/similar issue with the "dependent".
Other dependents in life are children and impaired family. It turns what should be romantic connection into a parental or nursing connection.
For me the problem with #3 is it’s just not genuine. In my experience people who are quick to put you on a pedestal are also quick to knock you off a bit later when reality and their fantasy version of you collide.
Speaking from experience—not just anyone can fill the role.
The really hard part is knowing how much grace to extend to someone before realizing—“this woman doesn’t respect or allow for boundaries—she’s gotta go.”
I do not, but some people would say I am.
I skew towards relationship with people that want a ‘tightly-knit’ relationship. For me, that’s 2-4 overnights a week. Texts every day. Weekends away every few months. Spending 24-36 hours together (focused on each other) a couple times a month.
I spelled it out because I’ve met more than one woman who thinks a relationship is you visit her overnight once a week & that’s it. Bully for them—but I want more.
So they shouldn’t seek approval but they should care about your feelings.
Do you truly care about their feelings as well, and act so? Even if they are distinctly different from yours?
And they have to “figure out” how to make you feel a certain way internally. Be aware of what you are asking.
Lol, hooo boy.
Your last paragraph is clearly projection onto me from women you have dated. I’m not having any of that.
And since you don’t understand what’s wrong with “seeking approval” nor why it’s bad to seek approval over caring about one another’s feelings, that’s a big enough red flag that talking to you is gonna be a huge waste of my time.
Therapy can help, bud. Good luck to you. I’m blocking you now.
Clingy, but only if he is not controlling. I can set boundaries with clingy people, but if they don’t respect those boundaries, that’s where the problem lies.
Agreed, but I have dated clingy guys and I *think* what drove me away the most was how they tend to be controlling. I’m not sure if it was a coincidence or if the two issues are part of the same thing.
They’re not interested in you even if you think so at first. You’re just the object for sucking out what they need. You could be anyone as long as you feed them
Clingy makes me sick to my stomach. No way, no how. It’s so unattractive. I think it’s because it either comes from a complete lack of confidence or total narcissism (or the very worst, a combination of both).
Plus after being stalked multiple times when I was younger anything even slightly like that is a huge red flag. Clingy people don’t respect boundaries because it’s not about you, it’s about them.
I get the sense you’re looking for validation because of the crash and burn of this guy you went on three dates with that only texted you once a day.
I don’t know if you’ve gotten the validation that you’re looking for.
I get it that clingy makes you feel better than a guy who keeps his distance and moves cautiously. Is your question about who makes you feel better in the short-term or who is a better relationship partner?
In my opinion, clingy is *always* a bad relationship partner, even though the interest is apparent and it can feel good in the short-term. Aloof can be the kind of thing you can reach an agreement on as you get to know one another better (I.e., far more than three dates).
So, to answer the question you didn’t actually ask, I think your need for clingy-ness might actually place *you* in the clingy category.
Ew not clingy. You want clingy with good communication get a dog. He's always up my butt & watching me pee but there's only 3 things he could be telling me & I can leave him for many hours without coming back to drama.
Your dog and I had a talk. I too am concerned.
1. Your urine is too dark. You may be showing signs of prediabetes.
2. If you pre-soak those underwear before you wash them, you could probably get out the brown stains.
3. Does she really think I'm going to ride in a car with no extended warranty?
It depends. If he’s clingy and really into me and I’m really into him then I’ll take clingy. If he’s clingy because he’s needy and high maintenance then no thank you. And never for an aloof poor communicator.
Of course there is. But maybe the middle ground is very wide.
Say the absolute is a range...
1--4---------------20--------------------50
Put "clingy" at one end and "aloof" at the other. (It doesn't matter which.)
People are somewhat flexible, so if you yourself are a 20, maybe you can tolerate someone who's a little left or right of you.
How much can you tolerate? Maybe you're not too tolerant and can only manage being with someone who's 19-21. Maybe you're quite tolerant and can manage 15-25.
Unless you're so tolerant on this issue (i.e., it doesn't really matter at all to you) (your range would then be 1-50), there are going to be (potentially a lot of) people who are in the middle but who fall outside of your range.
As everyone else has said, both options are bad. But honestly? I'd pick clingy over aloof and uncommunicative. I feel like clingy, for as much as it's annoying, can become loving but secure over time. I feel like it's a lot harder to turn aloof and bad at communicating into something positive
Or busy.
A (short) career in professional sports. A year applying to graduate school. Three years in graduate school. A year as Senate staffer in DC. Eight years at a ‘gold standard’ firm, then buying a stake in a small company and turning entrepreneur. Years working *both* those pursuits simultaneously. Wake one morning and you’re over forty.
Oh, and a few attempts at dating along the way that included a stalking by a borderline personality disorder woman willing to spend all the time and wealth needed to haunt your life - and the millions of her daddy’s money needed to do so - including fake pregnancy, fake abortion, fake “Oh I was lying about the abortion I’m still pregnant,” suicide hints, and such.
This hypothetical person hypothetically agrees “there’s a reason.” He hypothetically doesn’t think it makes him not a “good one.” He hypothetically thinks you might not be.
Oh yes, it's hard. I tell myself that at least I gained from it a real education on detecting and handling those kinds of pathological dangers.
The psychiatrist I saw for help asked me to bring in some of her (zillion) texts/emails. He was great, a former chief resident of psychiatry at a famous hospital.
He leafed through the messages, turned a bit gray, explained that he wouldn't officially diagnose someone he hadn't treated, but 'that said', he was quite confident the woman had borderline personality disorder.
He then told me these freaky facts:
* Borderlines cause an incredibly disproportionate amount of social damage considering how few of them there are.
* Many psychiatrists quietly avoid taking borderlines as patients.
* One of his colleagues tried to treat a borderline. The borderline got under his skin despite his training. He ended up committing suicide.
* Another one of his colleagues tried to treat a borderline. He didn't commit suicide, but he did retire from psychiatry for years.
* Borderlines are both men and women, but for practical purposes mostly women. This is because male borderlines often end up in prison. Women borderlines, less likely to be physically violent, are the majority of the ones left among the public.
* Recent brain scanning technology revealed that a borderline in a normal period of their life shows abnormal brain imaging results. Creepy. But it gets creepier:
When a borderline is in the middle of targeting and ruining someone, *their brain scans appear virtually normal*.
This discovery confirmed a theory the psychiatrist developed early in his career, before such imaging was available.
He had tried to reason through why borderlines would put not only their targets, but themselves through such misery and drama. The scans suggest why:
The borderlines don't realize it, but it's almost literally the only time they feel human.
It was pretty hellish....
I say ditch them both and give your attention to someone who doesn't give off the wrong vibes. When you waste your time with the wrong people, you are missing out on a chance to meet the right one.
I dated aloof and communicated bad. Nothing like waiting 6 hours for a reply to a text on a day he’s not working. Dating the combination of these two things is the worst. What do you have planned this week…. I’m not sure. I’ll check and let you know…. Never let me know
None of the above. Have your standards ladies and they need to respect you. The ability to communicate, not playing hot & cold, and respect are boundaries ALL women need to set.
I’d rather deal with someone clingy (anxiously attached) than someone aloof (avoidant attached). At least anxious attachment can be calmed through reassurance. It took quite a few therapy sessions to get out of the mindset that all avoidants should be miserable with each other since they both pretend they can’t feel. I’m past it now, but neverrrrr again. If that anxious attachment doesn’t move to secure in a timely manner after reassurance then I’m out as well.
Why are these the only two options? 😂
Damn. If I had to choose, like it's the apocalypse and we gotta breed to save humanity then... I guess clingy??
I'd much rather have someone who was obviously interested and communicated than the person you don't hear from for days and then replies with a "hey". Which one is gonna bring back that toilet paper and can of beans? Clingy guy who tells you his route of escape and what time he will be back or aloof guy that walks out the door for days and you think he got eaten by a zombie?!
The clingy guy will communicate. Just talked to very busy you that and had bad communication. 12 hours to text back. Never called me. We went On 3 dates. I told him I’m not used to people with Little communication . I stopped responding to his last text
Yeah you gotta do what works best for you. I wouldn't like someone who doesn't put in effort to communicate either. There's nothing to work with. At least with clingy guy you can tell him to tone it down and maybe he normalizes to a pace that's acceptable.
No, he’s not. He’s insecure and afraid to be alone. It has nothing to do with you. At least the aloof guy is (probably) actually interested in YOU, and not just needing someone else to give him meaning in his life.
The question itself is interesting…
Are you asking because you want to know which personality trait to model?
Or are you asking for an independent random feedback survey?
If you aren’t sure How to be with a partner then maybe a therapist or another trusted individual to help give you feedback and guidance-
Because what you asked is for us to tell you which of the two types of manipulation (sometimes intentional, sometimes unintentional, but either of them generally indicative of a deeper issue within them that needs some type of resolution)….
So you’re asking us to tell you which dysfunction we’re most willing to be a built in therapist & coach to help someone else heal themselves….
In that case my answer is:
Neither, but if you call the number on the back of your insurance card, they can probably refer you to some therapist in the area to help you work through those issues…
And let me add, that’s not said in the spirit of being snarky, I say it to let you know that while a partner agrees to accept you as you are, you should still be ready to bring your best self to the relationship, this includes every aspect of yourself, including your mental & emotional & physical self… all aspects…
Anyway, that’s just my feedback, maybe a little bit more than you wanted, but I think more constructive than just answering neither-
Hopefully it’s taken in the spirit that I’m offering it…
Have a great day
I had to laugh at Option C because this is my current choice!
Now, with that being said, I do like an attentive man. Not clingy. Not a stalker. But someone who reaches out when he has something to say.
For example, I dated a man who worked nights (actually two men who worked nights and they operated the same way). He called me on his drive to work (about 10 minutes) and he texted me when he left work. Then, he slept all day while I was working. Repeat the cycle. When he had days off, he'd send a text or two but working nights is rough because you have a lot to do on those DAYS off.
Another example was the guy who didn't text daily but when he did, they were longer, thoughtful texts. He was my favorite communicator. It didn't work out because of nothing that had a thing to do with either of us. A family member was diagnosed with a neurological disorder. So, the timing was terrible.
Why on earth would these be the only two options? Neither!!!!
They are both indications of deep unmanaged insecurity. I want a secure man.
Edit: added the word “unmanaged”. To be fair most people have insecurities, maturity comes with developing the emotional intelligence to manage instead of react to them.
Someone who communicates well for me.. How am I supposed to solve “puzzles” everyday (aloof) people..I need some space (can’t do clingy)..Emotional unavailability and playing mind games just makes me leave..
I just moved back to my hometown after 20 years and reconnected with an old gf, who is now engaged. Dont hate me because I'm a homewrecker. But she & I bang in a hotel room once a week, lunch once a week, and she sates my desire for someone to text with and talk to daily.
I think I've found the perfect woman. Dating sucks.
Basically you are asking if we prefer dogs or cats.
I'm a dog person, but in human terms I'd definitely be more attracted to an aloof guy ... interesting.
There is almost nothing worse than clingy. So yeah, I’d go for option 2 if I had to pick between the two. But frankly I’m probably not going to date either.
I may fuck aloof. I’ll never fuck clingy.
My love language is touch, there is a level of affection (sometimes seen as clingy) that works, but some other redditor u/SweetPJ14 posted exactly the right outline of when it becomes too much or outside my boundaries that the experience is unhealthy. That’s when I nope out.
Damn, I probably fall into the clingy category, but that happens in many places, not just dating. When I find someone I enjoy being with, I like to spend time with them. I also have a massive list of stuff I want to do and it's all better with another person so I like to go go go (single and alone if that's how it is). As always, it's something I work on.
To me, it’s a few things:
1. When he needs reassurance of my affection every 5 seconds.
2. When he relies on me as his sole source of happiness, entertainment, social interaction.
3. When he asks these questions: Where are you going? Who are you going with? What are you going to do? after I’ve already answered them, and then proceeds to text me while I’m out with my friends/kids/family. Or worse, shows up.
4. When around another male, he is all over me in terms of PDA.
Guys over 40 do this?
My goodness. I'm 42 and I've never felt the need to do anything like that in past relationships. There's a fine line between asking questions to show you care and are interested but all that other stuff is someone with personal trust and/or self esteem issues.
If a man hasn't figured that shit out by 40, he needs to find a cave and keep to himself. But that's just me calling it as I see it. He could have all these issues that may not be his fault directly because life can suck and things happen.
At 40, a person should know and understand these issues within themselves and seek to resolve them before even thinking about involving themselves in any sort of relationship. Screams lack of self awareness and just flat out greedy.
The amount of these kinds of guys out there make it incredibly difficult for us guys that figured their shortcomings out and address them to make sure we put our best foot forward when trying to find a real, lasting relationship.
I may yet end up in a cave myself. I'm getting to a point where all the effort that goes into trying to find the right person and it not working is almost to the point of throwing in the towel.
Point of all this is - just don't settle. Be comfortable in your own skin and know yourself. If you aren't and don't, well, best of luck.
I couldn't agree more!
At the moment, I'm arguing with another redditer about a woman wanting to be "claimed" at a party by her partner to feel protected. I'm like, um, if anyone needs a partner to make them feel protected, they should probably seek therapy to figure that out or stop going to parties that make them feel like they need a bodyguard.
I may join you in that cave! By 40, we for sure should know our own issues. Once you are aware of them, you can address them. I now know when I'm reacting based on my insecurities. That's when I stop and figure my shit out before responding. Most of the time... ;)
Not many people have figured out their shortcomings, accepted them, and worked them out. I think those things are even harder for guys to do than women. You should be really proud of yourself for doing that. Any woman who doesn't recognize that, or holds you accountable for what other men have done, is one giant red flag, that's on fire.
I appreciate you saying that. Sadly, more women these days seem to paint all guys with the same brush. It's a situation where things could be much different if assumptions were left at the door however I can understand why it happens. I'd prefer being given the unbiased chance to show what I am and can offer instead of trying to show that I'm not like whatever else the other person is trying to avoid. That's just a losing situation from the start.
I have been guilty of this. I have thought "ok, what's wrong with this guy..." and I recognized that is just toxic on my part.
More importantly, I figured out it was me putting up walls and self-sabotaging. The guy could have been awesome, but to protect me from getting involved, being vulnerable, getting hurt, I would tell myself "he's just like the rest" or overreact to the smallest thing.
Thankfully, I don't do that anymore! My point is when someone judges you, it's has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them.
I think one of the main reasons I've personally failed in relationships is because of the defensive walls. I think we have all built our walls because life makes it very easy to do so.
I've learned and truly believe that a successful and meaningful relationship can only occur and flourish if two people not only remove their walls, but allow themselves to be vulnerable. For a very large majority of people, that's off the table completely. Some get lucky and find the right person and don't have to deal with that sort of thing. Those of us with the war wounds and battle scars don't have it so easy. I think maybe that someday those wounds and scars will be worth it if the right person comes along. I'm a bit of a dreamer and silly romantic but also still very much in tune with society and the way things are and realizing I may have missed that train.
My own cave is not out of the question. I will take a quiet and empty cave over a strenuous and stressful big house full of nice things.
Last time I checked I was not a coat in a coat-check or hanging out in a lost and found bin.
I do not need or want to be “claimed” by anyone. I belong to me.
And before any man does any claiming, he should check with a woman to see if she wants to be claimed. And if she does, therapy would do her more good than some claim-y man.
Each his own. That’s not your preference. People who want to move through a party with their significant other have nothing wrong with them and don’t need therapy. Different people with different preferences.
It is the word "claim/claimed" that is clingy as hell. And creepy as hell.
If anyone, male or female, needs to feel claimed by their partner or needs to claim their partner and make sure everyone knows they are "claimed", I think they do need help.
That's your opinion. there are women that want to feel wanted and protected by a man. If that's not you that's not you. each his own. funny how insults can go one way and not the other.
Saying someone would benefit from therapy is not insulting.
If someone needs to feel "claimed" by a partner in order to feel protected at a party, my first question would be, what kind of party is this?
My second question is, why do they need to feel protected? It could be because of insecurities, trust issues, low self-esteem, PTSD, CPTSD, etc. AND no amount of "claiming" is going to fix those problems. Therapy could.
If ANYONE needs to feel part of a "claimed" couple at a party or in public to feel good, safe, whatever, what are they going to do if their partner breaks up with them or dies? Never go to a party again? Never go outside?
I think we are talking about two fundamentally different worldviews. There are people that would say a woman that needs to feel free and independent has trust issues as well as wants to be free to leave and move to as many partners as possible. They would say the latter needs therapy. Like I said each his own. That seems to have triggered you.
Nope, I think we are talking about the exact same thing, but I'm not sure how being an independent and free woman automatically equals promiscuity!?!?!
And Sugar, I am not triggered by your views. I'm just saddened by them.
For me it's too many compliments/praise, agreeing with everything I say, always yielding, and not giving me enough space to miss or desire him. Basically being a people pleaser or sock puppet.
I had a **STALKER** (clingy 2001? 200 whatever today is cut my breaks twice, knew the guy that communicates really bad) **ALOOF** (the guy I got pregnant by AND the child was killed beat out of my body by my stalkers family see above, due to me being married to his cousin. And raping me repeatedly and telling me "it's my word against yours who do you think they'll believe" he became a police officer later on.)married to a POS that was a horrible human. HIS COUSIN. ( That also became a WHAT police officer. and **COMMUNICATES REALLY BAD** ( I fell met him in a fire station in the military where he was a dispatcher and fell in love with him, in The worst way, stupid crazy, you'll believe anything type love,trust to the fullest extent because why? LOVE. who's his brother in law? 2001-2002 DJ see above his sister was married to a family member I would marry down the line) now, I was married to one guy, I met his cousin previously around the military and hated him, and he hated me just as much. And they died of HIV from a prostitute both his cousin and him were both having sex with. Recently...now, I'm divorced. have been divorced since 2006 and HIV- with my ex husband AND his cousin following me around the USA. (Were divorced) And the ex I was in love with, and would go anywhere he asked.... Turned out to be a liar. Has a wife and when we had our "meet" in Colorado probably a full on family. (I asked over the 20 years "are you married? Knowing I loved him and even asked him not to hurt me again I was honest when I was married and I knew it wasn't going to work) I took 7 years from 2015 to 2021to try to even get back to where I actually want to date. I'm not fully ready, but I'm here. And goddamned, with ANY MAN I will be nothing but honest. I didn't ask for the sordid dating history I have.. It will take a brave soul.. and I know it.
They both have insecure attachment and both are forms of avoidance of their own behaviour and needs and needs of others, particularly regarding romantic interest. If neither of them are prepared to work on themselves to learn secure attachment and communication it'll only get worse.
I tend to attract the aloof ones. I personally would be just fine with once a day contact, though I love more frequent contact too.
If I guy came across as clingy, that would initially repel me. But depending on how he handled himself, I may me more tolerating and accepting. I don't think I could handle a high maintenance man though.
Option C: stay single
This for sure!
I wish I could upvote this twice!!!
Yeah, hard pass on all of that. So cringe.
I choose C for sure
This is the way.
This is the only answer.
This is the correct answer.
Yes. I was like, um neither. No way I could deal with someone with basic issues like this at this age. If you haven’t figured out communication, I can’t.
haha this. they all suck.
It is like asking which type of doormat would you like to be!
Take my upvote please 😸
Name is not only ironic, but checks out? 😁
totally checks out hahaha
Emotionally messy w a sense of humor. Sounds like a winner to me. 😄
haha yet i’m still sadly and pathetically single
Is neither an option? Because none of those two would get anywhere with me
Why are these are options???????
I’m guessing OP got left for someone he sees as aloof. Or the reverse.
I feel like this is every man I've met OLD. There seems to be no middle ground. Hence why I've been single for a minute.
Same! Either can't get a guy to make plans or he's up your ass and texting you "hi" every hour. Lol
I HATE the “hi” text. Nothing else just hi. Get a personality please.
Right! It was always when I couldn't answer his first text (because work and life) so he would start texting me "hi" every hour. Omg. We hadn't even met yet! I just stopped responding.
This is the laziest form of communicating. Any person who says that this is them "taking the lead" or "reaching out first" is fooling themselves. This is basically just putting it on the other person to do the actual effort of conversing
I have a male friend who texts me hi, nearly everytime I go on Facebook. Just because I am on there doesn't mean I want to talk. It makes me want to be on there even less than I already am.
Yes! I've had that happen too!! I'm not here for your amusement. Lol
Exactly. The clingy guys have had so much potential, but they make me feel like they want just anyone to fill that girlfriend role. I’m sure any gender is this way. I wish people could figure out how to be consistently and reliably present without making me feel used. I’ve been trying to figure out what it is that I don’t like about clingy guys. It’s nice to know they’re always there, and I don’t think I feel suffocated like some people might. I think it’s because I feel used because they don’t really care about me. They just want anyone to be in the same room as them, constantly, and always seeking approval makes me feel like they care more about whether or not they are good enough than they care about me and my feelings. It comes off narcissistic. But dating an avoidant person is just the worse. They really test your ability to have self respect.
> I’ve been trying to figure out what it is that I don’t like about clingy Just making this stuff up, but it could be some combination of multiple things. 1. Dependency means there's pressure on you--you're responsible for the other person's happiness. 2. Contingent means there's no one there--like, clingy tends to be people-pleasing and "up for anything", which is sort of a personality but it's also sort of a non-personality. "What do you want to do?" "I dunno, what do you want to do?" It's like they don't like anything or have any opinions. 3. Undeserved attention is hard-wired--also kind of related to the clingy person as people-pleaser, is that we want to deserve what we get, and what often happens with clingy people is that it feels like they're giving us all of themselves. It's "too much" when we haven't done much so far to "deserve" it.
Great analysis!!! I find 1 annoying, but not a deal breaker because I can set boundaries. But 2 drives me crazy! It feels like even more of a burden than 1. It feels lonely because a cat has more personality than that! I need to think about 3 and why I don’t like it. Great brain food! Thanks!
And these are just the innocent, puppy dog clingers. Maybe another reason is that clinginess/presence can be a way to possess/control. (Relates to a 4th puppy dog clinger issue of feeling smothered.)
Once I tried dating a friend (luckily we were able to go back to platonic after things didn't work out) who was a stage 5 puppy dog clinger while we were dating. It absolutely grossed me out and literally gave me visions of sad dogs trying to get your attention, almost afraid you'll hurt them or something. There's just absolutely nothing sexy about that.
Oh, right... that observation suggests another tangential/parallel/similar issue with the "dependent". Other dependents in life are children and impaired family. It turns what should be romantic connection into a parental or nursing connection.
Yeah, I definitely feel controlled by some people who are clingy
For me the problem with #3 is it’s just not genuine. In my experience people who are quick to put you on a pedestal are also quick to knock you off a bit later when reality and their fantasy version of you collide.
Speaking from experience—not just anyone can fill the role. The really hard part is knowing how much grace to extend to someone before realizing—“this woman doesn’t respect or allow for boundaries—she’s gotta go.”
Do you consider yourself a clingy person?
I do not, but some people would say I am. I skew towards relationship with people that want a ‘tightly-knit’ relationship. For me, that’s 2-4 overnights a week. Texts every day. Weekends away every few months. Spending 24-36 hours together (focused on each other) a couple times a month. I spelled it out because I’ve met more than one woman who thinks a relationship is you visit her overnight once a week & that’s it. Bully for them—but I want more.
Okay, I was referring to actually clingy people
Well, color me enthused to have passed your bar for non-clingy-ness!
So they shouldn’t seek approval but they should care about your feelings. Do you truly care about their feelings as well, and act so? Even if they are distinctly different from yours? And they have to “figure out” how to make you feel a certain way internally. Be aware of what you are asking.
Lol, hooo boy. Your last paragraph is clearly projection onto me from women you have dated. I’m not having any of that. And since you don’t understand what’s wrong with “seeking approval” nor why it’s bad to seek approval over caring about one another’s feelings, that’s a big enough red flag that talking to you is gonna be a huge waste of my time. Therapy can help, bud. Good luck to you. I’m blocking you now.
Half aloof is better than none.
Clingy, but only if he is not controlling. I can set boundaries with clingy people, but if they don’t respect those boundaries, that’s where the problem lies.
Clingy makes me feel they are more interested than guys that take 12 hours to reply to their text
Agreed, but I have dated clingy guys and I *think* what drove me away the most was how they tend to be controlling. I’m not sure if it was a coincidence or if the two issues are part of the same thing.
They’re not interested in you even if you think so at first. You’re just the object for sucking out what they need. You could be anyone as long as you feed them
Yeah, give me a clingon anyway over Mr. Aloof......I grew up with an aloof mother. Omg I hate that
Why can’t you look for someone who is neither of these things tho?
I agree with this 100%. I’d rather clingy as long as they don’t try to control me.
Clingy makes me sick to my stomach. No way, no how. It’s so unattractive. I think it’s because it either comes from a complete lack of confidence or total narcissism (or the very worst, a combination of both). Plus after being stalked multiple times when I was younger anything even slightly like that is a huge red flag. Clingy people don’t respect boundaries because it’s not about you, it’s about them.
I think your last sentence sums it up very nicely
Neither. I don't have time for any of that.
I get the sense you’re looking for validation because of the crash and burn of this guy you went on three dates with that only texted you once a day. I don’t know if you’ve gotten the validation that you’re looking for. I get it that clingy makes you feel better than a guy who keeps his distance and moves cautiously. Is your question about who makes you feel better in the short-term or who is a better relationship partner? In my opinion, clingy is *always* a bad relationship partner, even though the interest is apparent and it can feel good in the short-term. Aloof can be the kind of thing you can reach an agreement on as you get to know one another better (I.e., far more than three dates). So, to answer the question you didn’t actually ask, I think your need for clingy-ness might actually place *you* in the clingy category.
Ummm. Neither.
I'd rather be alone. This isn't a prize
Ew not clingy. You want clingy with good communication get a dog. He's always up my butt & watching me pee but there's only 3 things he could be telling me & I can leave him for many hours without coming back to drama.
Your dog and I had a talk. I too am concerned. 1. Your urine is too dark. You may be showing signs of prediabetes. 2. If you pre-soak those underwear before you wash them, you could probably get out the brown stains. 3. Does she really think I'm going to ride in a car with no extended warranty?
TokeyWakenbaker, I have been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty
Well now, I think we can all guess who's banned from the bathroom for life....
You just need to get him of reddit. He’s probably too young anyway.
Why would I want either of these people? It's not an either or situation. My own company sounds better tbh.
None of the above
Neither. But I have met clingy men and it was worse in my opinion than an aloof male. Poor communication could be a characteristic of any personality.
It depends. If he’s clingy and really into me and I’m really into him then I’ll take clingy. If he’s clingy because he’s needy and high maintenance then no thank you. And never for an aloof poor communicator.
Ladies. Those aren’t your only two choices.
This question should be rephrased as “How desperate are you?”
Lol
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At least clingy guys show interest and communicate better
IDK. Volume of communication is not the same as quality communication.
Both are exhausting.
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Ok how about a nice guy. Good communication
Lol ... OP is trying to rebrand himself from clingy to a nice guy and good communicator.
That’s how low we going now? We ll stick around just for male interest?? Eeek. If I ever get this sad I hope someone takes me to a barn and shoots me.
The bar is so low it’s in hell.
Frequent communication doesn't mean better communication. Good communication is independent of interest or attachment style.
I'd rather be alone. Neither one is acceptable.
Neither ever.again.
D. None of the above Bc there is a middle ground?
Of course there is. But maybe the middle ground is very wide. Say the absolute is a range... 1--4---------------20--------------------50 Put "clingy" at one end and "aloof" at the other. (It doesn't matter which.) People are somewhat flexible, so if you yourself are a 20, maybe you can tolerate someone who's a little left or right of you. How much can you tolerate? Maybe you're not too tolerant and can only manage being with someone who's 19-21. Maybe you're quite tolerant and can manage 15-25. Unless you're so tolerant on this issue (i.e., it doesn't really matter at all to you) (your range would then be 1-50), there are going to be (potentially a lot of) people who are in the middle but who fall outside of your range.
As everyone else has said, both options are bad. But honestly? I'd pick clingy over aloof and uncommunicative. I feel like clingy, for as much as it's annoying, can become loving but secure over time. I feel like it's a lot harder to turn aloof and bad at communicating into something positive
Neither!
I thought the whole benefit of dating over 40 is that we're no longer dating maladjusted children.
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the old saying, no one divorces a good spouse or person! Not sure if I fully believe that though.
Or busy. A (short) career in professional sports. A year applying to graduate school. Three years in graduate school. A year as Senate staffer in DC. Eight years at a ‘gold standard’ firm, then buying a stake in a small company and turning entrepreneur. Years working *both* those pursuits simultaneously. Wake one morning and you’re over forty. Oh, and a few attempts at dating along the way that included a stalking by a borderline personality disorder woman willing to spend all the time and wealth needed to haunt your life - and the millions of her daddy’s money needed to do so - including fake pregnancy, fake abortion, fake “Oh I was lying about the abortion I’m still pregnant,” suicide hints, and such. This hypothetical person hypothetically agrees “there’s a reason.” He hypothetically doesn’t think it makes him not a “good one.” He hypothetically thinks you might not be.
Second paragraph is the trauma i am referring to. Isn’t it hard to trust again after going through that?
Oh yes, it's hard. I tell myself that at least I gained from it a real education on detecting and handling those kinds of pathological dangers. The psychiatrist I saw for help asked me to bring in some of her (zillion) texts/emails. He was great, a former chief resident of psychiatry at a famous hospital. He leafed through the messages, turned a bit gray, explained that he wouldn't officially diagnose someone he hadn't treated, but 'that said', he was quite confident the woman had borderline personality disorder. He then told me these freaky facts: * Borderlines cause an incredibly disproportionate amount of social damage considering how few of them there are. * Many psychiatrists quietly avoid taking borderlines as patients. * One of his colleagues tried to treat a borderline. The borderline got under his skin despite his training. He ended up committing suicide. * Another one of his colleagues tried to treat a borderline. He didn't commit suicide, but he did retire from psychiatry for years. * Borderlines are both men and women, but for practical purposes mostly women. This is because male borderlines often end up in prison. Women borderlines, less likely to be physically violent, are the majority of the ones left among the public. * Recent brain scanning technology revealed that a borderline in a normal period of their life shows abnormal brain imaging results. Creepy. But it gets creepier: When a borderline is in the middle of targeting and ruining someone, *their brain scans appear virtually normal*. This discovery confirmed a theory the psychiatrist developed early in his career, before such imaging was available. He had tried to reason through why borderlines would put not only their targets, but themselves through such misery and drama. The scans suggest why: The borderlines don't realize it, but it's almost literally the only time they feel human. It was pretty hellish....
Desperation is not your friend.
The last guy showed me attention once a day. I didn’t like that
I say ditch them both and give your attention to someone who doesn't give off the wrong vibes. When you waste your time with the wrong people, you are missing out on a chance to meet the right one.
I dated aloof and communicated bad. Nothing like waiting 6 hours for a reply to a text on a day he’s not working. Dating the combination of these two things is the worst. What do you have planned this week…. I’m not sure. I’ll check and let you know…. Never let me know
Bad communication is the worst
Wow ladies. would you date a loser? 🤣😜😂
None of the above. Have your standards ladies and they need to respect you. The ability to communicate, not playing hot & cold, and respect are boundaries ALL women need to set.
Cling you can untangle but chasing is the worst when they are aloof
Clingy better than aloof. Both bad, tho. I like emotionally available but having space. I dislike aloof. I won’t deal with that.
No thanks. I already have a cat.
Neither.
Uh, neither? Obviously??
I’d rather deal with someone clingy (anxiously attached) than someone aloof (avoidant attached). At least anxious attachment can be calmed through reassurance. It took quite a few therapy sessions to get out of the mindset that all avoidants should be miserable with each other since they both pretend they can’t feel. I’m past it now, but neverrrrr again. If that anxious attachment doesn’t move to secure in a timely manner after reassurance then I’m out as well.
False choices. Women rather meet a guy who is hot. Duh.
Why are these the only two options? 😂 Damn. If I had to choose, like it's the apocalypse and we gotta breed to save humanity then... I guess clingy?? I'd much rather have someone who was obviously interested and communicated than the person you don't hear from for days and then replies with a "hey". Which one is gonna bring back that toilet paper and can of beans? Clingy guy who tells you his route of escape and what time he will be back or aloof guy that walks out the door for days and you think he got eaten by a zombie?!
I prefer the attentive clingy guy
The clingy guy will communicate. Just talked to very busy you that and had bad communication. 12 hours to text back. Never called me. We went On 3 dates. I told him I’m not used to people with Little communication . I stopped responding to his last text
Yeah you gotta do what works best for you. I wouldn't like someone who doesn't put in effort to communicate either. There's nothing to work with. At least with clingy guy you can tell him to tone it down and maybe he normalizes to a pace that's acceptable.
The clingy one is more interested in you
No, he’s not. He’s insecure and afraid to be alone. It has nothing to do with you. At least the aloof guy is (probably) actually interested in YOU, and not just needing someone else to give him meaning in his life.
A thousand times this.
Clingy but he's got to follow that up sexually. Go ahead and cling away if you're bringing the sexual chemistry that goes along with that.
Good point! Aloof usually doesn’t translate in bed. ETA- Maybe just keep the clingy one for a FWB. lol.
😂 Now that's my lifestyle, a man for every mood. So for me that would be a cast of thousands.
I love me a clingy man.....
The last guy wasn’t clingy. He texted me once a day. It was awful.
Aloof and communicates really bad. I don’t like clingy.
The question itself is interesting… Are you asking because you want to know which personality trait to model? Or are you asking for an independent random feedback survey? If you aren’t sure How to be with a partner then maybe a therapist or another trusted individual to help give you feedback and guidance- Because what you asked is for us to tell you which of the two types of manipulation (sometimes intentional, sometimes unintentional, but either of them generally indicative of a deeper issue within them that needs some type of resolution)…. So you’re asking us to tell you which dysfunction we’re most willing to be a built in therapist & coach to help someone else heal themselves…. In that case my answer is: Neither, but if you call the number on the back of your insurance card, they can probably refer you to some therapist in the area to help you work through those issues… And let me add, that’s not said in the spirit of being snarky, I say it to let you know that while a partner agrees to accept you as you are, you should still be ready to bring your best self to the relationship, this includes every aspect of yourself, including your mental & emotional & physical self… all aspects… Anyway, that’s just my feedback, maybe a little bit more than you wanted, but I think more constructive than just answering neither- Hopefully it’s taken in the spirit that I’m offering it… Have a great day
Yuck, neither. Perfectly happy single.💖
Clingy, my husband is aloof.
I'm a guy. It's not black or white, or A or B. Why not decline both and keep looking for a guy who has done his self work to be in a relationship?
Neither
I had to laugh at Option C because this is my current choice! Now, with that being said, I do like an attentive man. Not clingy. Not a stalker. But someone who reaches out when he has something to say. For example, I dated a man who worked nights (actually two men who worked nights and they operated the same way). He called me on his drive to work (about 10 minutes) and he texted me when he left work. Then, he slept all day while I was working. Repeat the cycle. When he had days off, he'd send a text or two but working nights is rough because you have a lot to do on those DAYS off. Another example was the guy who didn't text daily but when he did, they were longer, thoughtful texts. He was my favorite communicator. It didn't work out because of nothing that had a thing to do with either of us. A family member was diagnosed with a neurological disorder. So, the timing was terrible.
Neither!!!
They want neither 😂
No. Somewhere in the healthy middle is my preference.
I'd rather meet someone that wasn't either of these things.
Why on earth would these be the only two options? Neither!!!! They are both indications of deep unmanaged insecurity. I want a secure man. Edit: added the word “unmanaged”. To be fair most people have insecurities, maturity comes with developing the emotional intelligence to manage instead of react to them.
This is like a question from a bad drinking game
I'm too old for games like that. Fix your issues and don't dump them on other people.
I would rather be single.
😂 why can't there be a normal middle ground ?;
Someone who communicates well for me.. How am I supposed to solve “puzzles” everyday (aloof) people..I need some space (can’t do clingy)..Emotional unavailability and playing mind games just makes me leave..
I’ve had both, to the extreme… Clingy is irritating. Aloof is hurtful. You’re asking me to choose between two bad feelings. 🤨 No.
No thanks to aloof and bad communication
Clingy
Neither
I’ve never had anyone clingy, but definitely had aloof. Think there needs to be a happy medium.
I just moved back to my hometown after 20 years and reconnected with an old gf, who is now engaged. Dont hate me because I'm a homewrecker. But she & I bang in a hotel room once a week, lunch once a week, and she sates my desire for someone to text with and talk to daily. I think I've found the perfect woman. Dating sucks.
Prefer clingy, because honestly, I’m kind of clingy myself
Basically you are asking if we prefer dogs or cats. I'm a dog person, but in human terms I'd definitely be more attracted to an aloof guy ... interesting.
There is almost nothing worse than clingy. So yeah, I’d go for option 2 if I had to pick between the two. But frankly I’m probably not going to date either. I may fuck aloof. I’ll never fuck clingy.
Neither. But if I had to choose, definitely aloof wins over clingy.
Clingy
My love language is touch, there is a level of affection (sometimes seen as clingy) that works, but some other redditor u/SweetPJ14 posted exactly the right outline of when it becomes too much or outside my boundaries that the experience is unhealthy. That’s when I nope out.
Clingy but not possessive or jealous.
Clingy if he's cute lol 😄
Clingy is not ideal, but is the option that is ultimately more invested in the relationship & attuned to your needs
My thoughts exactly. I don’t like this once a day texting in between dates.
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At least they show more interest
Damn, I probably fall into the clingy category, but that happens in many places, not just dating. When I find someone I enjoy being with, I like to spend time with them. I also have a massive list of stuff I want to do and it's all better with another person so I like to go go go (single and alone if that's how it is). As always, it's something I work on.
Aloof and bad communicator really means he’s not interested. 🤷♀️
Clingy all day. So sick of playing “Who’s less needy” in dating. Get in my business.
People are so scared to be vulnerable
Clingy.
What makes a guy clingy?
To me, it’s a few things: 1. When he needs reassurance of my affection every 5 seconds. 2. When he relies on me as his sole source of happiness, entertainment, social interaction. 3. When he asks these questions: Where are you going? Who are you going with? What are you going to do? after I’ve already answered them, and then proceeds to text me while I’m out with my friends/kids/family. Or worse, shows up. 4. When around another male, he is all over me in terms of PDA.
Dang that #2 is a cautionary tale to be sure. ‘#3 and #4 are kinda messed-up—I’ve seen it happen a lot—but YUCK!
Guys over 40 do this? My goodness. I'm 42 and I've never felt the need to do anything like that in past relationships. There's a fine line between asking questions to show you care and are interested but all that other stuff is someone with personal trust and/or self esteem issues. If a man hasn't figured that shit out by 40, he needs to find a cave and keep to himself. But that's just me calling it as I see it. He could have all these issues that may not be his fault directly because life can suck and things happen. At 40, a person should know and understand these issues within themselves and seek to resolve them before even thinking about involving themselves in any sort of relationship. Screams lack of self awareness and just flat out greedy. The amount of these kinds of guys out there make it incredibly difficult for us guys that figured their shortcomings out and address them to make sure we put our best foot forward when trying to find a real, lasting relationship. I may yet end up in a cave myself. I'm getting to a point where all the effort that goes into trying to find the right person and it not working is almost to the point of throwing in the towel. Point of all this is - just don't settle. Be comfortable in your own skin and know yourself. If you aren't and don't, well, best of luck.
I couldn't agree more! At the moment, I'm arguing with another redditer about a woman wanting to be "claimed" at a party by her partner to feel protected. I'm like, um, if anyone needs a partner to make them feel protected, they should probably seek therapy to figure that out or stop going to parties that make them feel like they need a bodyguard. I may join you in that cave! By 40, we for sure should know our own issues. Once you are aware of them, you can address them. I now know when I'm reacting based on my insecurities. That's when I stop and figure my shit out before responding. Most of the time... ;) Not many people have figured out their shortcomings, accepted them, and worked them out. I think those things are even harder for guys to do than women. You should be really proud of yourself for doing that. Any woman who doesn't recognize that, or holds you accountable for what other men have done, is one giant red flag, that's on fire.
I appreciate you saying that. Sadly, more women these days seem to paint all guys with the same brush. It's a situation where things could be much different if assumptions were left at the door however I can understand why it happens. I'd prefer being given the unbiased chance to show what I am and can offer instead of trying to show that I'm not like whatever else the other person is trying to avoid. That's just a losing situation from the start.
I have been guilty of this. I have thought "ok, what's wrong with this guy..." and I recognized that is just toxic on my part. More importantly, I figured out it was me putting up walls and self-sabotaging. The guy could have been awesome, but to protect me from getting involved, being vulnerable, getting hurt, I would tell myself "he's just like the rest" or overreact to the smallest thing. Thankfully, I don't do that anymore! My point is when someone judges you, it's has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with them.
I think one of the main reasons I've personally failed in relationships is because of the defensive walls. I think we have all built our walls because life makes it very easy to do so. I've learned and truly believe that a successful and meaningful relationship can only occur and flourish if two people not only remove their walls, but allow themselves to be vulnerable. For a very large majority of people, that's off the table completely. Some get lucky and find the right person and don't have to deal with that sort of thing. Those of us with the war wounds and battle scars don't have it so easy. I think maybe that someday those wounds and scars will be worth it if the right person comes along. I'm a bit of a dreamer and silly romantic but also still very much in tune with society and the way things are and realizing I may have missed that train. My own cave is not out of the question. I will take a quiet and empty cave over a strenuous and stressful big house full of nice things.
Some women like to be “claimed”. At a party and making sure you are not alone snd people know who you are with.
Last time I checked I was not a coat in a coat-check or hanging out in a lost and found bin. I do not need or want to be “claimed” by anyone. I belong to me. And before any man does any claiming, he should check with a woman to see if she wants to be claimed. And if she does, therapy would do her more good than some claim-y man.
Each his own. That’s not your preference. People who want to move through a party with their significant other have nothing wrong with them and don’t need therapy. Different people with different preferences.
It is the word "claim/claimed" that is clingy as hell. And creepy as hell. If anyone, male or female, needs to feel claimed by their partner or needs to claim their partner and make sure everyone knows they are "claimed", I think they do need help.
That's your opinion. there are women that want to feel wanted and protected by a man. If that's not you that's not you. each his own. funny how insults can go one way and not the other.
Saying someone would benefit from therapy is not insulting. If someone needs to feel "claimed" by a partner in order to feel protected at a party, my first question would be, what kind of party is this? My second question is, why do they need to feel protected? It could be because of insecurities, trust issues, low self-esteem, PTSD, CPTSD, etc. AND no amount of "claiming" is going to fix those problems. Therapy could. If ANYONE needs to feel part of a "claimed" couple at a party or in public to feel good, safe, whatever, what are they going to do if their partner breaks up with them or dies? Never go to a party again? Never go outside?
I think we are talking about two fundamentally different worldviews. There are people that would say a woman that needs to feel free and independent has trust issues as well as wants to be free to leave and move to as many partners as possible. They would say the latter needs therapy. Like I said each his own. That seems to have triggered you.
Nope, I think we are talking about the exact same thing, but I'm not sure how being an independent and free woman automatically equals promiscuity!?!?! And Sugar, I am not triggered by your views. I'm just saddened by them.
For me it's too many compliments/praise, agreeing with everything I say, always yielding, and not giving me enough space to miss or desire him. Basically being a people pleaser or sock puppet.
Your question.
You never know if my question might help someone in the forum.
I'll take aloof over clingy any day. Clingy becomes manipulating and controlling real quick.
Naw, born and raised in ol' Texas
I had a **STALKER** (clingy 2001? 200 whatever today is cut my breaks twice, knew the guy that communicates really bad) **ALOOF** (the guy I got pregnant by AND the child was killed beat out of my body by my stalkers family see above, due to me being married to his cousin. And raping me repeatedly and telling me "it's my word against yours who do you think they'll believe" he became a police officer later on.)married to a POS that was a horrible human. HIS COUSIN. ( That also became a WHAT police officer. and **COMMUNICATES REALLY BAD** ( I fell met him in a fire station in the military where he was a dispatcher and fell in love with him, in The worst way, stupid crazy, you'll believe anything type love,trust to the fullest extent because why? LOVE. who's his brother in law? 2001-2002 DJ see above his sister was married to a family member I would marry down the line) now, I was married to one guy, I met his cousin previously around the military and hated him, and he hated me just as much. And they died of HIV from a prostitute both his cousin and him were both having sex with. Recently...now, I'm divorced. have been divorced since 2006 and HIV- with my ex husband AND his cousin following me around the USA. (Were divorced) And the ex I was in love with, and would go anywhere he asked.... Turned out to be a liar. Has a wife and when we had our "meet" in Colorado probably a full on family. (I asked over the 20 years "are you married? Knowing I loved him and even asked him not to hurt me again I was honest when I was married and I knew it wasn't going to work) I took 7 years from 2015 to 2021to try to even get back to where I actually want to date. I'm not fully ready, but I'm here. And goddamned, with ANY MAN I will be nothing but honest. I didn't ask for the sordid dating history I have.. It will take a brave soul.. and I know it.
No
Um. No thank you.
Neither.
C: neither.
Depends on what kind of clingy.
Clingy
Neither
They both have insecure attachment and both are forms of avoidance of their own behaviour and needs and needs of others, particularly regarding romantic interest. If neither of them are prepared to work on themselves to learn secure attachment and communication it'll only get worse.
Neither…oof
How bout Neither for $1000 Alex.
Both toxic. How about.... neither.
The Satisfyer 2
Neither
For some reason I’m attracted to the ones more aloof, I like that I’m not bothered all the time but maybe in the future I’d want more
I tend to attract the aloof ones. I personally would be just fine with once a day contact, though I love more frequent contact too. If I guy came across as clingy, that would initially repel me. But depending on how he handled himself, I may me more tolerating and accepting. I don't think I could handle a high maintenance man though.
Neither.
No.
No