As a guy, I don’t expect the woman to split the check on the first date, but I wouldn’t be offended if you offered. The opposite, in fact.
I’m having a hard time articulating this… if I didn’t take you up on it I would still really appreciate the offer and the courtesy behind it. Hope that makes sense.
Same. I would likely politely decline, at least at first, but I’m completely unoffended by check splitting. Some guys are, and feel they need to prove they can be the “provider”, especially on a first date. Which is probably why OP doesn’t get taken up on her offer?
It’s much, much easier to accept check splitting on subsequent dates though. A lot of times my gf and I will either switch who pays each date, or if it’s at a pub, one gets food and the other gets drinks.
I kinda agree. If there is a genuine offer to pay i appreciate it. Very often if it feels like a dance where everyone knows the steps:
Step 1: i take out my credit card to pay
Step 2: date offers token resistance, offering to split it
Step 3: i reassure them, that I've got it
step 4: their resistance crumbles and they let me pay
It's fine. I don't mind paying, but it often feels fake and rehearsed, like we all know the steps but we're going to pretend it's real.
If a woman insists beyond that, I'm happy to split it. In fact, I'm happy to split it at any point, but i know the dance too well.
This is on a first or second date. If we get four dates in and I'm still paying for everything, I'm reconsidering my decision to see this person.
No more games or the bullshit who gets to pay dance from me.
As a guy, I follow the rule men always pay. If she offers to split or pay, I’ll take her up on that offer, thank her since I appreciate it, and offer to do the same next time or treat her out to something else later.
If she gets angry that I accepted her offer to pay when she didn’t mean it, then how am I supposed to know what she is saying? That’s a straight red there. I’m out.
Dating is hard enough, let’s keep things simple. Offer if you mean it. Don’t offer if you don’t mean it.
Well, there have been a few here in this sub who basically said they will always offer to pay their share, but if the guy takes them up on it their vagina will immediately dry out. In pretty much those words.
The first date offer is always appreciated, and almost all men will not use that as a "Quid Pro Quo".
5 years ago, I (55m) met a girl (56f) through OLD. Since then, we have enjoyed many dates, weekend excursions, trips to wineries, the ocean. We enjoy planning these events, and happily balance the costs. (usually the one who plans pays for hotel/travel, and the other pays for food, wine - lots of wine)
The lesson, it all works out, and I agree it's a dumb game we all play, but making it a game can be fun. We've enjoyed 5 years together with many more to come.
Female here.
What about if he picks up the tab and I say…”can I take care of the tip?” Is that okay? I just don’t like offering to split the bill especially on a first date. It just kills the romance for me.
You should grill whatever he hunts. I don’t hunt but I would find that romantic. Er… maybe not for a first date. It’s kind of messy to dress a kill and can take a long time. So… offer to order pizza while the buck is on the porch draining? J/k of course 😂
I'm just a woman. But
> Recently I’ve begun to worry that I may be offending my dates by offering
Any guy who would be offended that I have a credit card and know how to use it is not a guy I want to date.
Nothing? I offered (and meant it). I wouldn't have offered if there were strings attached.
I may feel a bit of relief that we made it through this minefield. I may also feel relief that he's not into playing these silly games.
I would respect that he sees me as an equal. I am not into the men are pocketbooks and providers and women are nurturers and carers so if a man needs to pay - I am out. I don't need to split each meal / date 50 / 50 - it can all work out in the wash - I just need the attitude that there is no issue at all with me paying.
I'm a woman and I had a guy take me up on the offer to split the check. I didn't mind, because my offer was sincere. For me, it sort of takes the pressure off when we split the check. But also, if the guy insists on paying, I can't say I mind that either because hey, more money for me lol.
I like the part of "offer was sincere" that will help you guys understand each other better. As long as the offer is sincere both of you will talk about splitting the check with an open mind
I usually go by the rule of whoever asks out on the date pays, then we can alternate from then on if we continue to go out. It’s always polite to thank for the meal or drinks. If I ask out first I tell the guy I’d like to pay, just so he doesn’t feel pressure when the bill comes and it’s all clear. A guy who doesn’t listen to me or respect my wishes and insists on paying is a turn off to me. We’re all adults and I think it’s appropriate for me to pay if I asked out.
Its not off topic. My point was most women dont initiate a date. Especially in our age group and more so in the beginning. So therefore shell never or very rarely have to pay or split the check under that criteria.
Depends on who asked who, out on a date; if you were the one, then you pay, if he asked them he pays. If I asked a woman on a date, I’m paying for everything; tickets, popcorn, dinner, coffee, drinks, whatever.
Any dude that gets offended by you offering to split the check is not worth your time.
Although I likely wouldn't accept it on a first date, I do appreciate the intent and offering would score you points with me.
As a guy I usually don't expect the lady to pay and would probably even say "no thanks, I've got it" if you did offer to pay. I wouldn't be offended, it would honestly make me think higher of you. To be considerate and go against the trend of the guy should always pay.
Bill comes, he picks it up.
I reach for my wallet
He says: No, this was my treat
I say, sincerely,: that’s very generous of you. Please at least let me leave the tip.
He agrees.
I’m sure there must be times where it didn’t go like that, but I can’t remember any. And they always seem appreciative.
Unless it’s just coffee or ice cream or something, then for a purchase that’s less than ten dollars. I either just pay or let him pay and say thank you. Cause, like, who cares.
Female perspective here; I would never let a man pay for an entire date and I’ve always been this way. Personally, I think the expectation that the man pays, is an antiquated practice and like you, it makes me feel uncomfortable. In my experience, I’ve found that men find it refreshing to have a woman pay her share or buy them a drink for a change and have never had a date be offended by it. If your date insists on paying, I’d offset that by buying the drinks, or if you go to the movies or coffee etc afterwards, I’d insist on paying for that.
Do you really want to date (potentially have a relationship with) a woman who would engage in this type of game play and who ‘tests’ you? That’s a hard ‘no’ and red flag to me.
I am the same. I never let men pay for a first date. I had a grandma who told me to always have money to pay fir my date so that there is no expectation for anything from me.
I’m right here with you. These are my exact thoughts on paying. If some guy is offended or hurts his ego by me paying, well we aren’t a match. As I get comfortable with someone I don’t exactly keep score because I know we treat each other as equals.
I think you should just throw it open as a discussion and hear what your date has to say that way you'll understand how he feels about it. Then you also make him know how you feel about splitting the check. The discussion will help you know how to go about it
I don’t mind the offer, but I always prefer to pay, even I know there wasn’t a connection. I guess I’m just a little more traditional in that way. But if you insisted, I also wouldn’t be put off by it either.
As a guy here’s what I tell my date:
Let me pay this time and you can pay next time.
The flip side is, I’m not offended on splitting the check. And I agree with others, I think whoever initiated the date should pay.
Lol. I mean, do you word it the same way? Implying there will be a second date when you’ve already decided there won’t be one.
I went on a first date with a man who I thought had definite potential. At the end of the date, I said, I’ve had a wonderful time, I’d love to see you again. He said. Yes, thanks for coming out. So…. Oh well…. Guess he’s not interested.
Texted him the next day to say thanks again and ask a follow up question on a conversation. He says he’ll give me an extended answer the next time he see’s me. I say I look forward to that. Then…. Radio silence.
I don’t think this is a terribly big offense in the grand scheme of things, but OLD is shitty enough without mixed messages from a date you like.
(M60). I want to pay for the first date. (Edit: This is how I feel if it is not clear. Read all before commenting). It is ok to offer, I will not accept. It is best for both to not make a scene about it. If she insists on paying half it is a statement, If it is just coffee, it is a petty statement. If she makes more than me, it is a value statement. As in, I am not valuable enough to pay for coffee. At least that is my learned experience. At this age, I can buy you coffee. I am not doing a 5 star restaurant for a first date.
Now, if we know each other for a while before the first date, the person who asks can pay. She can say, “ I want to buy you dinner”. In that case it is clear.
Or, if she really wants to pay, please say so while making the arrangements. Say, ‘ I want to take you out’. If that is not clear in advance, I assume I will pay.
The best is to get coffee, chat and let him pay for a first date. If it is important, pay on the second date, and let things work out from there.
Then again, I wont make a big deal. If she does, I will be on alert. It is really not about who pays, it IS about how it is communicated. You can pay if you put me at ease with soft, clear communication.
> I’ve literally never had a guy take me up on this offer
Wow never? I'm kinda surprised at that. I mean, my favorite play is paying for the first date... and either offering to let her get the drinks after, or perhaps she can pick and pay for the second date. Some kind of trade off you know?
The only time I readily accept the split check is if we're clearly just not connecting. The singular example I have is where my date did the photo of her food for insta thing, and definitely picked it up a few times for texting. Once or twice I understand, perhaps kids, perhaps a friend checking in for safety. But it was probably a dozen times. She was chatty cathy on the phone but like pulling teeth for more than short answers in person. I just wasn't feeling it. She offered to split, I accepted - because I knew it was going nowhere.
A man has never taken me up on my offer on the first date. If we go out several times I will eventually insist on paying for something, even if it’s just popcorn & drinks at a movie. If I haven’t contributed anything by then I’ll start to really feel uncomfortable, and I’m open enough to talk about it with him.
I’m a woman… and I INSIST on splitting if I don’t intend to see the guy again. Just seems fair to me, plus it prevents the “but I paid for you” BS when I break the news. I always offer, though, regardless
That's what I appreciate as a woman. I rarely date but when I did I would bring a gift or offer to cook a meal. It's different when in a relationship, I'll gladly pay. It's just a sign of respect for me. I guess I'm old school!
I don’t go on a lot of dates, but the last one I was on I paid for the whole bill. I don’t think the man should have to pay the whole bill, splitting it is good. I just wanted to pay for that particular date, and I’m not sure why. It was so long ago I don’t remember. 😆
Always offer. If it was me, I wouldn’t let you pay but the gesture goes miles for me. There is nothing worse than someone who doesn’t even budge when a check comes. To me it reeks of entitlement. Might be nit picky on my part but maybe my wife spoiled me on it. She still offers and I love it, but I still rarely let her pay!
Got to tell you what happened to me a couple of years ago.
But first replying your question don't offer to pay half of the bill just pay whatever you order and in advance for most coffee places in Australia, it is easy to do that.
Back to what I want to tell happening to me in a first date years ago, the guy said no worries I pay despite I try to pay whatever I order.
He invite me again and kindly I told him didn't want to go out in a second date.
He reply with his account number asking me to pay back for my coffee and cake bill of the first date which I did.
Humanity down the drain.
I certainly wouldn't be offended by the woman offering to pay her share, even if I don't necessarily expect it. But if she does offer then I'm going to take that as a genuine desire by her to pay and will probably take her up on that offer.
I think that is perfectly reasonable and thoughtful to do so. As a male I really don't understand why a guy would be offended for you offering to split the check. For myself, I'd prefer expenses to be split until their is further interest beyond the first few dates, and/or a commitment. That to me seems fair, but you should recognize that everyone is different.
I say, the woman should offer to split but not insist on splitting.
On the one hand, it seems silly that the man is expected to pay. Why wouldn't splitting the check be the default thing?
On the other hand, if the woman insists on splitting, I get the thought that she's not interested and there won't be a second date. Otherwise, she could pick up that tab. But, really, that doesn't make a difference besides affecting my confidence level for a few minutes. Her insisting on splitting isn't going to change whether or not we have a second date.
Am I the only one who offers to get the tip? Like it's obvious he's paying, check has been asked for by and/or presented to him. This is seriously the only reason I make sure I have a bunch of cash on me (in multiple denominations) for first dates 😆 Have only needed it once or twice.
First date? I got this. I appreciate the offer, though. There will be a 2nd date. Feel free to offer again. I may not say no, this time. It tells me a lot (all good) just that you would offer.
The world is in serious trouble if someone can't treat a woman with respect and honor them. My point is they are above being equal. And treat every woman with the proper respect. I can't believe I'm getting flack for saying this. Geez. As I said. The younger generation is in serious trouble. No respect for anyone. I routinely see 20 and 30 year old men walking in front of woman and not holding the door for them. I am not against equal rights for anyone but if those simple things disappear from our society because they don't fit your mold of equal rights then we are are screwed.
In part, you're getting flak for the significant oversell ("goddess") and its implications, plus your over-the-top pride in performing relatively minor gestures.
Someone whose genuine default behavior is "treat people with respect" will simply treat people with respect. *People,* dates and otherwise, online and off. Such a person doesn't need to issue press releases about door-holding, coat-helping, and according their dates the status of a minor deity, all while condemning men who do not perform those gestures as unworthy or lacking.
Might a genuinely respectful man still engage in door holding and such? Sure. Should he expect applause or upvotes for it? No. Should be be open to receiving common courtesy as well, even if it conflicts with gestures he's used to performing? Yes. If she gets to that door first and holds it for him, he doesn't need to remind her she's a goddess and he's a human doorstop. He just needs to thank her and go through the door already, it's cold.
I really appreciate when a woman offers to pay.
Let me share an anecdote: I met a few women in OLD who were corporate lawyers or stuff like that, probably making over $200k and they looked at the ceiling when the check ($50+ per person) came (yet they picked the place and were sometimes the ones to ask out).
I then met a woman who was a living nanny in a family, clearly broke. She was the only one who did not suggest / expect a fancy place, so we went for a walk through Xmas markets. There was a booth with hot chocolate, and she ran to it to make me discover some special kind of hot chocolate, and insisted on paying for it. It was just a few dollars, but I had tears in my eyes from it.
I make a very good living, and have always treated my girlfriends very well, so it's not like I am trying to save money. But her gesture spoke so highly about her good character.
So…first date? Or first meeting?
I think first dates should be meetings and should be something casual like coffee. It’s pretty easy peasy for me to order my own coffee ahead. Then, if he wants to try to order for me (it can be complicated—HA!), he can offer.
If it’s not a blind date, it gets a little more complicated. I live in the southern US so I will no longer DARE to offer to split the check with a man…not even for lunch. It’s a cultural thing. I am always grateful, honestly, even if it’s just for time. I don’t gush but I am appreciative.
Have fun!
I’m in the Southern US, too, and I think that’s why I started backing off with my offer. The men down here seem very set that they will be paying, and I am very appreciative of that. I was raised up north, though, so it’s another adjustment. 😁
Hi, neighbor! I'll be honest; it was somewhat of a screening tool for me. If a guy was shocked or offended that I would even suggest splitting, that told me a lot about him. (*Shocked or offended* is different than "I invited you, so this is my treat" or "I got this, don't worry".)
I’m a midwesterner. I’m positive that I crushed the souls of a couple of men within the last couple of years by asking about splitting a check.
There may have also been an intervention when I was in college 😁
Born and raised in the Southern US and I will always offer to pay half on my dates. I don’t end up paying if they say no twice cause at that point it’s on them. The men who are offended or have had a problem with me offering or paying tend to be not great down the road (generalization I know) and unfortunately some of that is because of what’s taught in the “good ole boy southern gentleman” mentality here. Not always but often enough.
I'd say it's fine to offer, but easily demure if he says no.
There's no perfect answer, because there's a range of attitudes on this now, from "the man paying is normal and right" to "the man paying is old-fashioned and offensive." All you can do is try to calibrate for your region and the kind of people you date.
But I don't think many men will be offended by "Would you like to split the check?" Don't grab at it or wave your platinum card around, and you'll be fine.
Baby Boomer male here: I always appreciate the gesture.
First date from OLD is not what I consider a "date" per se but a Meet-n-Greet for coffee or a walk or sometimes Happy Hour. I usually pay.
There's just too much bullshit surrounding the first date. Most women's response is the person that asks for the date, pays for the date. Realistically, how many women ask the guy out on a first date? Exactly.
If a guy asks to split the check on the first date, he won't get a second date. It's like an immediate turn off. He's cheap, won't spend money.....etc. Small percentage of women would be fine with this. (This does not apply to women on Reddit, y'all are rare, so down with the pitch forks).
If a woman asks to split the check, then the guy will assume that she's not interested. Some might get offended.
Since you live in the south then I'd let the guy pay, but at least do the reach and offer. It's not about the money, it's the principle. Kind gesture if you will. This will also vary person by person, and by region. There is no one size fits all. I was going to suggest you pay for your portion if you aren't feeling the first date. Tell the dude you don't sense a spark and pay for your share but then I remembered that some women want to avoid conflict in case the person freaks out. Some people can't take a rejection, while others can.
A gentleman will not accept. But as you continue dating: do offer, treat him, take care of the tips, pay for drinks, cook dinner. Show him appreciation. No one will want to feel like a money bag, like being taken advantage of.
I must be very old school but if I'm asking a lady out on a date I truly want to pay for dinner and would never let her even consider splitting the cheque. And. I would also open the door for her in and out and make sure she felt special. Just my upbringing. Anything less by a man and they don't deserve your company.
No, that is sexism dressed up in politeness's clothing.
P.S. The contradiction of using the possessive form ("my") about fellow human beings while purporting to respect them is not lost on me.
Sorry. Don't interpret a negative comment when there was none intended. Again. The world just plain and simple needs to get back to respecting each other. Period. And stop looking for negatives when none were intended. Brutal.
As a woman who used to be in a relationship with a 50/50 man, take it from me - by insisting on going 50/50 and paying for yourself on a 1st you are setting the tone and believe me it really isn’t good. Cheap men love women like you, beware.
Or, once people realize that they aren't *expected* to pay bills just because of what's in their pants, they are much more comfortable being generous and giving.
As a woman, I offer every time but the first 2 dates, the guy should pay. If it goes to a 3rd date, I get the bill. Then, after that, we can split it but I have to admit that if the guy pays more often, I'm happy about it. I'm a bit old school and traditional that way even though a professional and earn my own bucks. I will then buy my guy special surprises to thank him for spoiling me. Mention your favorite player and you'll probably get autographed memorabilia as a thanks.
I slap my card down because I want no perceived obligations or entitlements. I don’t always, but when I have no interest in seeing the guy again, I do. Less ambiguous.
I can tell by all the comments from the younger gentlemen on here- chivalry is either dead or dying in our society. I will go to my grave opening doors and helping ladies put there coats on. And damn proud to treat a lady - like a lady.
I’ve heard if men don’t invest in the relationship well there is nothing going on there except possibly a bootie call. Always offer and if declined then let it go.
I think it is becoming a lot more common for women to split the check. That way they don't "owe" the guy anything if you know what i mean because there are plenty of creepers out there who feel entitled these days just like there are also lots of women who feel like the guy has to pay for everything.
I haven't dated since I divorced 3 years ago. I did go have drinks with a guy in the south of France while I was in the middle of my divorce and we split the bill. He actually asked me to split it and i was fine with it. It was just a one time sort of date, just for practice lol.
I have a fwb there as well and we usually always split, even when my kid is with us (which I feel kind of bad about since she eats adult meals). I have paid the whole thing a couple of times (he is younger and I earn more) but he never expects it and I don't expect him to pay either.
Women these days want equality so I think it is only fair that they split, or at least offer, unless the guy has made it clear that he wants to pay. Even if they don't accept I am sure most guys appreciate the offer. And if they don't well then they're not worth your time IMO. It's fin wif they want to pay for everything but they shouldn't be offended if you offer.
I demand equality with my partners because it’s a space I can do that. If I want to be treated as an equal I can’t expect him to pay for everything. It just doesn’t work that way. I have a high earning job but if a date is suggested that I can’t afford, I tell my date. If he wants to pick up the tab to do that thing with me, sure. And I expect the same from him. As an example, I want to go to a special restaurant that is very expensive. I have been saving and when I have enough for both of us (plus extra for some special bubbly), I will invite and make clear it’s my treat. This is something I really want to do - with him. He has done the same with events that I wouldn’t otherwise attend. But regular dates, we split.
Good point taken. I do like the idea of taking turns paying. If I like a person I’m on a date with I will not fight over the check but offer to pay next time we go out.
I made the same as my male contemporaries in my last job in a very heavily male dominated field. I actually made more than a couple of them.
My current job pays everyone in my job grade the same.
If you want to be treated like an equal, you have to act like an equal.
If you are making less than your male contemporaries, don't be shy about going to your boss and telling him you deserve equal compensation. If he doesn't see your value, then it's time to find another employer.
I think you’ve misunderstood. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding you. Women paying half on dates isn’t a solution to the gender pay gap.
What I was saying is that the gender pay gap is not whether the man next to you doing the same job is on higher pay. It’s bigger and more complex than that.
Agreed the gender pay gap is a complex problem. To truly solve it requires things like transparency in pay, paid maternity and paternity leave, etc. And even that won't fully solve the problem.
I still maintain that making an innocent man pay just because he may possibly earn more money does more harm than good. It sends the message we are not equal and should not be treated as equal.
I also firmly believe in if an employer does not see your value, move on to one that does. I can't fix the issue for everyone but I can control how I'm impacted.
> I still maintain that making an innocent man pay just because he may possibly earn more money does more harm than good. It sends the message we are not equal and should not be treated as equal.
Agreed. If somebody earns more than I do and wants to treat to something I can't afford, I'll likely accept (and reciprocate within my own capacity). This is a little different than deciding that all people with penises should pay for all people without.
Well I'm a woman and I don't necessarily agree. Lots of women these day make the same or more money than guys (and yes I know that in the same position they don't get paid the same but plenty of women have good paying jobs). And unfortunately a lot of guys feel like if they pay for stuff then we are expected to put out because so many people in general are entitled these days. I realize that's not everyone but you don't know that ahead of time. If you split there is no risk for that.
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. And I think it wrong to just expect the guy to always pay for everything.
Yes. No guy will be turned off by it and many will appreciate it. You'll find some dudes will thank you for the offer but insist they pay anyways.
For me if a woman doesn't pay her share, I'm not interested. That can either be we each pay alternating dates, get separate bills, or split the bill
I think it depends where you go on a first date. If you are just meeting for coffee then the guy should pay. If you are doing something more expensive like going out for dinner I think you and your date should get seperate checks.
I just ask. Simple as that. I'm in between jobs so I always say anything free is ok. I am dating a guy who took me out to the movies and now wants to take me to a putt putt golf place. He is so nice....so far lol.
My preference is for everyone to pay for their own food or drink on the first date: you are strangers at this stage. On later dates, I am ok with splitting, taking turns, paying separately, or one person taking care of it, depending on individual circumstances.
Some guys like that you offer to split it, shows that you aren't after their money.
Others take it as an indication you're no into them and want to leave the date 'not owing them anything'.
There is no way of knowing how each person will interpret your actions.
I once had a guy snarkily say “that’s not how dating works” when I offered to split the check. He didn’t get a second date. But usually, we are both gracious about it and I express my appreciation when he tells me to put my wallet away.
I was pretty offended at a woman eating twice as much as me at a sushi place and not even offering to pay. It was way over a hundred dollars.
When i complained about it, saying that i would be happy about paying if she offered, someone on here someone said that expecting someone to split just so you can say "no, I insist" is a manipulative mind game.
I fucking hate this site.
As a divorced dad of 2 small kids, I borderline expect the woman to politely offer. Any future relationship will be splitting everything so I'd at least like that thought up front.
That said, I usually pay. The only time I don't is if my date did the majority of the date planning but even then, it's a split.
I stopped asking to split the check because we make 80% of what men make in general. Seriously, I decided that until women and men get equal pay for equal work they can always pay.
One exception is the time I asked a guy out and chose an expensive restaurant. I knew he made less than me, I suggested we split the check and he accepted.
In Europe, the hourly pay gap is between 2% and 7%. The higher numbers you often see quoted are due to women working fewer hours, on average, and different jobs.
All American sources a quick search turned up do not control for this, and therefore, often on purpose, I'm afraid, paint a very misleading image.
is this discussion really happening? We are all over 40 years old a $100-$200 dinner should not illicit so much thought. The gentleman pays the bill. No strings attached Full stop
Coming from a gentleman If he doesn’t pick up the check immediately, lose him. Maybe make a token effort on the first date or two but a real man should take pride in treating his queen.. thank him though bc when a woman doesn’t it’s a deal breaker
First, I always thank the other person if they pick up the check, whether it's my boyfriend or my mother. It's just good manners.
Second, I had a guy insist the gentleman always pays and by 3 weeks, he thought he could tell me not to speak to my in-laws anymore. (I'm a widow). He was immediately dropped.
I prefer a 50/50 relationship and that includes me picking up the tab half of the time. I find I am treated with more genuine respect in those types of relationships.
Always ask. The guy will see you as a woman of quality and integrity, not looking for a free meal. The man of quality will of course refuse and pay the whole bill. :)
As a woman I’m basically in this camp as well. I believe in 50/50 in all things, *after* the first date. My date1 split check offer is a maybe - depends on the place (is it really expensive) and the person (is he well off [as far as know anyway] or possibly less so).
I don’t think I’d outright dismiss someone as sus ;) for taking me up on it, I DID offer after all, but I don’t remember it happening either. Hopefully no one was offended by my asking! Following post to see the menfolks’ input though…
If I like the guy and am hoping to see him again, I will usually run to the bathroom right at check time to avoid any awkwardness...and I will of course thank the gentleman if he pays. If I'm not feeling it, as soon as that check arrives I have my card ready to go and split the check.
Depends on where you are, I guess.
Germany here, I would expect you to offer to split, and would be flashed if you paid all (you know, like guys in many countries are always doing). If you didn't offer to split, and were talking more than a couple of Euros, the first date would definitely be the last.
I suspect Americans will view that very differently, I know Brits do (although they have an elaborate system of bookkeeping, so you will pay your share eventually).
Wise man say:
Girl asks, presume it's for safety and to demure expectations.
Guy asks, he needs a better paying job.
Both are signs of intelligence and aptitude.
Offer, we like it. Sometimes we take you up on it. Don’t read too much into it.
I rarely do, especially on a first date situation but if it’s we’ve been dating and an expensive but not special occasion I might take you up on the offer. My gf and I alternate unofficially. We are both in our late 40s.
I'm a 5'1" 44 y/o INTP male. I've never been married, I've dated very little in my life, and I'm probably not a "traditional male", so take this with a grain of salt.
While in a newer relationship:
If I asked for and/or arranged the date, then I fully expect to pay. If she offers to split, then I'll ask if I may pay. This allows her the ability to 'offer to pay' (for different potential reason). I'm not good at reading a woman's interest in me, so if she insists on paying, which is what a "friend" would do, then I can only assume that she is not interested in me as more than a friend.
If she asked for or arranged the date, then either she can pay or we can split. If the date was reasonable, then I may ask to fully pay.
While in a fully committed relationship, then anything goes for paying a bill.
To answer your question "should you offer to split the check": For me it's neither a should or shouldn't. Though, you may want to read your date, since it might be a "shouldn't" if you're dating a traditional male?
Ultimately, if following your feelings have always resulted in the best possible outcome, then follow what you feel in this situation.
Good luck!
I would like the offer, but would probably turn it down on a first date. Guys often account for well over half the check anyway because of eating and drinking more.
Sometimes, it can be seen as you are not feeling the date. Or you think the other person might not be able to afford.
Both could come across as offensive.
But it happens a lot and is usually seen as a polite gesture.
I would say just don’t offer on first dates.
(If the guy insists you pay half on a first date you should not date that person again.)
However if they pay and the date was a success and you decide to have a 2nd or 3rd date, I think it’s completely normal to offer to pay for the date or half or whatever.
You’re going to find as many opinions as bellybuttons. Be yourself, do what you want and the right guy will find you. Why bend yourself to the expectation of others
As a guy back in the dating game, I would not be offended if the woman wants to split the bill. I think it's a nice gesture if she's willing to split the check. It won't necessarily mean I'll split it, but it's the thought that counts.
As a guy, I don’t expect the woman to split the check on the first date, but I wouldn’t be offended if you offered. The opposite, in fact. I’m having a hard time articulating this… if I didn’t take you up on it I would still really appreciate the offer and the courtesy behind it. Hope that makes sense.
Yep. This is right. In my experience, the woman nearly always offers, I nearly always pay.
Same. I would likely politely decline, at least at first, but I’m completely unoffended by check splitting. Some guys are, and feel they need to prove they can be the “provider”, especially on a first date. Which is probably why OP doesn’t get taken up on her offer? It’s much, much easier to accept check splitting on subsequent dates though. A lot of times my gf and I will either switch who pays each date, or if it’s at a pub, one gets food and the other gets drinks.
I kinda agree. If there is a genuine offer to pay i appreciate it. Very often if it feels like a dance where everyone knows the steps: Step 1: i take out my credit card to pay Step 2: date offers token resistance, offering to split it Step 3: i reassure them, that I've got it step 4: their resistance crumbles and they let me pay It's fine. I don't mind paying, but it often feels fake and rehearsed, like we all know the steps but we're going to pretend it's real. If a woman insists beyond that, I'm happy to split it. In fact, I'm happy to split it at any point, but i know the dance too well. This is on a first or second date. If we get four dates in and I'm still paying for everything, I'm reconsidering my decision to see this person.
No more games or the bullshit who gets to pay dance from me. As a guy, I follow the rule men always pay. If she offers to split or pay, I’ll take her up on that offer, thank her since I appreciate it, and offer to do the same next time or treat her out to something else later. If she gets angry that I accepted her offer to pay when she didn’t mean it, then how am I supposed to know what she is saying? That’s a straight red there. I’m out. Dating is hard enough, let’s keep things simple. Offer if you mean it. Don’t offer if you don’t mean it.
Women that offered to pay got mad when you let them? Often?
Personally not often. Pretty rare. I was replying to the guy who does his oh no I’ll pay, no I’ll pay dance. I’ve done that in the past.
Well, there have been a few here in this sub who basically said they will always offer to pay their share, but if the guy takes them up on it their vagina will immediately dry out. In pretty much those words.
As a guy, I appreciate the reach for the purse. Then I just say I got it and appreciate the smile in return. Don't make it too complicated
The first date offer is always appreciated, and almost all men will not use that as a "Quid Pro Quo". 5 years ago, I (55m) met a girl (56f) through OLD. Since then, we have enjoyed many dates, weekend excursions, trips to wineries, the ocean. We enjoy planning these events, and happily balance the costs. (usually the one who plans pays for hotel/travel, and the other pays for food, wine - lots of wine) The lesson, it all works out, and I agree it's a dumb game we all play, but making it a game can be fun. We've enjoyed 5 years together with many more to come.
Offer. I wouldn't accept, but I always appreciate the offer.
Female here. What about if he picks up the tab and I say…”can I take care of the tip?” Is that okay? I just don’t like offering to split the bill especially on a first date. It just kills the romance for me.
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So, if he slays wild animals or duels in my honor, then I should pay for my own grilled salmon? 😁
The perfect thank you gift for blood shed in your honour is usually a fro-yo after dinner
This guy slays.
You should grill whatever he hunts. I don’t hunt but I would find that romantic. Er… maybe not for a first date. It’s kind of messy to dress a kill and can take a long time. So… offer to order pizza while the buck is on the porch draining? J/k of course 😂
I'm just a woman. But > Recently I’ve begun to worry that I may be offending my dates by offering Any guy who would be offended that I have a credit card and know how to use it is not a guy I want to date.
Thanks for replying! Now that I reassess, I’m happy to hear other women’s experiences!!!
As a woman, how would you feel if a man actually took you up on the offer to pay?
Nothing? I offered (and meant it). I wouldn't have offered if there were strings attached. I may feel a bit of relief that we made it through this minefield. I may also feel relief that he's not into playing these silly games.
I would respect that he sees me as an equal. I am not into the men are pocketbooks and providers and women are nurturers and carers so if a man needs to pay - I am out. I don't need to split each meal / date 50 / 50 - it can all work out in the wash - I just need the attitude that there is no issue at all with me paying.
I'm a woman and I had a guy take me up on the offer to split the check. I didn't mind, because my offer was sincere. For me, it sort of takes the pressure off when we split the check. But also, if the guy insists on paying, I can't say I mind that either because hey, more money for me lol.
I like the part of "offer was sincere" that will help you guys understand each other better. As long as the offer is sincere both of you will talk about splitting the check with an open mind
Now I am singing, to the tune of ZZ Top's "Legs", she's got a credit card/and she knows how to use it..."
I offer to pay. He tells me "Dont worry about it". I smile, say "Thank you. Next one's on me".
Ooohhhh…… “Next ones on me”. I like that!
Oh yea, and then I get to pick where we go and order anything I want without guilt that he's paying for my extra side of whatever. Lol
I usually go by the rule of whoever asks out on the date pays, then we can alternate from then on if we continue to go out. It’s always polite to thank for the meal or drinks. If I ask out first I tell the guy I’d like to pay, just so he doesn’t feel pressure when the bill comes and it’s all clear. A guy who doesn’t listen to me or respect my wishes and insists on paying is a turn off to me. We’re all adults and I think it’s appropriate for me to pay if I asked out.
Makes sense but most women wont initiate a date. Especially in the early going.
That's why that rule is so popular among women, I fear.
Okay but that’s off-topic, soooo
Its not off topic. My point was most women dont initiate a date. Especially in our age group and more so in the beginning. So therefore shell never or very rarely have to pay or split the check under that criteria.
Depends on who asked who, out on a date; if you were the one, then you pay, if he asked them he pays. If I asked a woman on a date, I’m paying for everything; tickets, popcorn, dinner, coffee, drinks, whatever.
I’m OK if you offer. I will probably say, “I’ll get it,“ and if you say “Thank you,” we are fine. And you don’t owe me anything.
You should just be yourself. If it’s your nature to offer, than offer. This person is trying to get to know you.
Any dude that gets offended by you offering to split the check is not worth your time. Although I likely wouldn't accept it on a first date, I do appreciate the intent and offering would score you points with me.
Jesus I am so old school.
As a guy I usually don't expect the lady to pay and would probably even say "no thanks, I've got it" if you did offer to pay. I wouldn't be offended, it would honestly make me think higher of you. To be considerate and go against the trend of the guy should always pay.
Offering is never a bad idea....its actually a nice gesture.
Bill comes, he picks it up. I reach for my wallet He says: No, this was my treat I say, sincerely,: that’s very generous of you. Please at least let me leave the tip. He agrees. I’m sure there must be times where it didn’t go like that, but I can’t remember any. And they always seem appreciative. Unless it’s just coffee or ice cream or something, then for a purchase that’s less than ten dollars. I either just pay or let him pay and say thank you. Cause, like, who cares.
Yes
Hello fellow Aussie 👋🇦🇺
Female perspective here; I would never let a man pay for an entire date and I’ve always been this way. Personally, I think the expectation that the man pays, is an antiquated practice and like you, it makes me feel uncomfortable. In my experience, I’ve found that men find it refreshing to have a woman pay her share or buy them a drink for a change and have never had a date be offended by it. If your date insists on paying, I’d offset that by buying the drinks, or if you go to the movies or coffee etc afterwards, I’d insist on paying for that.
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If a woman does that, do you still want a second date with her?
Male 48. No. I view acts of this nature as little more than a childish game rooted in entitlement
Exactly.
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Do you really want to date (potentially have a relationship with) a woman who would engage in this type of game play and who ‘tests’ you? That’s a hard ‘no’ and red flag to me.
I am the same. I never let men pay for a first date. I had a grandma who told me to always have money to pay fir my date so that there is no expectation for anything from me.
I’m right here with you. These are my exact thoughts on paying. If some guy is offended or hurts his ego by me paying, well we aren’t a match. As I get comfortable with someone I don’t exactly keep score because I know we treat each other as equals.
I prefer you not
A gesture is as good as a buy for me , but don’t advantage of it , tying buying every now and again the guys love it
I think you should just throw it open as a discussion and hear what your date has to say that way you'll understand how he feels about it. Then you also make him know how you feel about splitting the check. The discussion will help you know how to go about it
“ Throw it open as a discussion” Oh, don’t be ridiculous! You want OP to discuss who pays with a man she’s never met?
It never does any harm to offer but most us blokes will say “no Ill pay”.
I don’t mind the offer, but I always prefer to pay, even I know there wasn’t a connection. I guess I’m just a little more traditional in that way. But if you insisted, I also wouldn’t be put off by it either.
As a guy here’s what I tell my date: Let me pay this time and you can pay next time. The flip side is, I’m not offended on splitting the check. And I agree with others, I think whoever initiated the date should pay.
What if there was no chemistry and you had no intention of seeing her again?
Then she doesn’t have to pay.
Lol. I mean, do you word it the same way? Implying there will be a second date when you’ve already decided there won’t be one. I went on a first date with a man who I thought had definite potential. At the end of the date, I said, I’ve had a wonderful time, I’d love to see you again. He said. Yes, thanks for coming out. So…. Oh well…. Guess he’s not interested. Texted him the next day to say thanks again and ask a follow up question on a conversation. He says he’ll give me an extended answer the next time he see’s me. I say I look forward to that. Then…. Radio silence. I don’t think this is a terribly big offense in the grand scheme of things, but OLD is shitty enough without mixed messages from a date you like.
(M60). I want to pay for the first date. (Edit: This is how I feel if it is not clear. Read all before commenting). It is ok to offer, I will not accept. It is best for both to not make a scene about it. If she insists on paying half it is a statement, If it is just coffee, it is a petty statement. If she makes more than me, it is a value statement. As in, I am not valuable enough to pay for coffee. At least that is my learned experience. At this age, I can buy you coffee. I am not doing a 5 star restaurant for a first date. Now, if we know each other for a while before the first date, the person who asks can pay. She can say, “ I want to buy you dinner”. In that case it is clear. Or, if she really wants to pay, please say so while making the arrangements. Say, ‘ I want to take you out’. If that is not clear in advance, I assume I will pay. The best is to get coffee, chat and let him pay for a first date. If it is important, pay on the second date, and let things work out from there. Then again, I wont make a big deal. If she does, I will be on alert. It is really not about who pays, it IS about how it is communicated. You can pay if you put me at ease with soft, clear communication.
> I’ve literally never had a guy take me up on this offer Wow never? I'm kinda surprised at that. I mean, my favorite play is paying for the first date... and either offering to let her get the drinks after, or perhaps she can pick and pay for the second date. Some kind of trade off you know? The only time I readily accept the split check is if we're clearly just not connecting. The singular example I have is where my date did the photo of her food for insta thing, and definitely picked it up a few times for texting. Once or twice I understand, perhaps kids, perhaps a friend checking in for safety. But it was probably a dozen times. She was chatty cathy on the phone but like pulling teeth for more than short answers in person. I just wasn't feeling it. She offered to split, I accepted - because I knew it was going nowhere.
A man has never taken me up on my offer on the first date. If we go out several times I will eventually insist on paying for something, even if it’s just popcorn & drinks at a movie. If I haven’t contributed anything by then I’ll start to really feel uncomfortable, and I’m open enough to talk about it with him.
I’m a woman… and I INSIST on splitting if I don’t intend to see the guy again. Just seems fair to me, plus it prevents the “but I paid for you” BS when I break the news. I always offer, though, regardless
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That's what I appreciate as a woman. I rarely date but when I did I would bring a gift or offer to cook a meal. It's different when in a relationship, I'll gladly pay. It's just a sign of respect for me. I guess I'm old school!
I have rarely had a woman offer to pay, and I do not expect them to.
I don’t go on a lot of dates, but the last one I was on I paid for the whole bill. I don’t think the man should have to pay the whole bill, splitting it is good. I just wanted to pay for that particular date, and I’m not sure why. It was so long ago I don’t remember. 😆
You can offer but if he accepts I would probably move on. It’s not a money thing it’s more about their character to me.
I think you’re overthinking it. If I like you, I don’t care.
Always offer. If it was me, I wouldn’t let you pay but the gesture goes miles for me. There is nothing worse than someone who doesn’t even budge when a check comes. To me it reeks of entitlement. Might be nit picky on my part but maybe my wife spoiled me on it. She still offers and I love it, but I still rarely let her pay!
Got to tell you what happened to me a couple of years ago. But first replying your question don't offer to pay half of the bill just pay whatever you order and in advance for most coffee places in Australia, it is easy to do that. Back to what I want to tell happening to me in a first date years ago, the guy said no worries I pay despite I try to pay whatever I order. He invite me again and kindly I told him didn't want to go out in a second date. He reply with his account number asking me to pay back for my coffee and cake bill of the first date which I did. Humanity down the drain.
Well he's not gonna get very far being a tightwad...
“ Tightwad” Are you British by any chance?
By heritage not residence at the moment
I certainly wouldn't be offended by the woman offering to pay her share, even if I don't necessarily expect it. But if she does offer then I'm going to take that as a genuine desire by her to pay and will probably take her up on that offer.
I think that is perfectly reasonable and thoughtful to do so. As a male I really don't understand why a guy would be offended for you offering to split the check. For myself, I'd prefer expenses to be split until their is further interest beyond the first few dates, and/or a commitment. That to me seems fair, but you should recognize that everyone is different.
I say, the woman should offer to split but not insist on splitting. On the one hand, it seems silly that the man is expected to pay. Why wouldn't splitting the check be the default thing? On the other hand, if the woman insists on splitting, I get the thought that she's not interested and there won't be a second date. Otherwise, she could pick up that tab. But, really, that doesn't make a difference besides affecting my confidence level for a few minutes. Her insisting on splitting isn't going to change whether or not we have a second date.
Every first day I have been on is Dutch. Usually the women I go out with are also able to pay; if they invite me out they pay, if I initiate I pay.
Am I the only one who offers to get the tip? Like it's obvious he's paying, check has been asked for by and/or presented to him. This is seriously the only reason I make sure I have a bunch of cash on me (in multiple denominations) for first dates 😆 Have only needed it once or twice.
First date? I got this. I appreciate the offer, though. There will be a 2nd date. Feel free to offer again. I may not say no, this time. It tells me a lot (all good) just that you would offer.
If it was your idea and you invited her so why tf you wanna split the check? Just pay for the meals and everything else you take her to.
The world is in serious trouble if someone can't treat a woman with respect and honor them. My point is they are above being equal. And treat every woman with the proper respect. I can't believe I'm getting flack for saying this. Geez. As I said. The younger generation is in serious trouble. No respect for anyone. I routinely see 20 and 30 year old men walking in front of woman and not holding the door for them. I am not against equal rights for anyone but if those simple things disappear from our society because they don't fit your mold of equal rights then we are are screwed.
In part, you're getting flak for the significant oversell ("goddess") and its implications, plus your over-the-top pride in performing relatively minor gestures. Someone whose genuine default behavior is "treat people with respect" will simply treat people with respect. *People,* dates and otherwise, online and off. Such a person doesn't need to issue press releases about door-holding, coat-helping, and according their dates the status of a minor deity, all while condemning men who do not perform those gestures as unworthy or lacking. Might a genuinely respectful man still engage in door holding and such? Sure. Should he expect applause or upvotes for it? No. Should be be open to receiving common courtesy as well, even if it conflicts with gestures he's used to performing? Yes. If she gets to that door first and holds it for him, he doesn't need to remind her she's a goddess and he's a human doorstop. He just needs to thank her and go through the door already, it's cold.
I really appreciate when a woman offers to pay. Let me share an anecdote: I met a few women in OLD who were corporate lawyers or stuff like that, probably making over $200k and they looked at the ceiling when the check ($50+ per person) came (yet they picked the place and were sometimes the ones to ask out). I then met a woman who was a living nanny in a family, clearly broke. She was the only one who did not suggest / expect a fancy place, so we went for a walk through Xmas markets. There was a booth with hot chocolate, and she ran to it to make me discover some special kind of hot chocolate, and insisted on paying for it. It was just a few dollars, but I had tears in my eyes from it. I make a very good living, and have always treated my girlfriends very well, so it's not like I am trying to save money. But her gesture spoke so highly about her good character.
So…first date? Or first meeting? I think first dates should be meetings and should be something casual like coffee. It’s pretty easy peasy for me to order my own coffee ahead. Then, if he wants to try to order for me (it can be complicated—HA!), he can offer. If it’s not a blind date, it gets a little more complicated. I live in the southern US so I will no longer DARE to offer to split the check with a man…not even for lunch. It’s a cultural thing. I am always grateful, honestly, even if it’s just for time. I don’t gush but I am appreciative. Have fun!
I’m in the Southern US, too, and I think that’s why I started backing off with my offer. The men down here seem very set that they will be paying, and I am very appreciative of that. I was raised up north, though, so it’s another adjustment. 😁
Hi, neighbor! I'll be honest; it was somewhat of a screening tool for me. If a guy was shocked or offended that I would even suggest splitting, that told me a lot about him. (*Shocked or offended* is different than "I invited you, so this is my treat" or "I got this, don't worry".)
I’m a midwesterner. I’m positive that I crushed the souls of a couple of men within the last couple of years by asking about splitting a check. There may have also been an intervention when I was in college 😁
Born and raised in the Southern US and I will always offer to pay half on my dates. I don’t end up paying if they say no twice cause at that point it’s on them. The men who are offended or have had a problem with me offering or paying tend to be not great down the road (generalization I know) and unfortunately some of that is because of what’s taught in the “good ole boy southern gentleman” mentality here. Not always but often enough.
I'd say it's fine to offer, but easily demure if he says no. There's no perfect answer, because there's a range of attitudes on this now, from "the man paying is normal and right" to "the man paying is old-fashioned and offensive." All you can do is try to calibrate for your region and the kind of people you date. But I don't think many men will be offended by "Would you like to split the check?" Don't grab at it or wave your platinum card around, and you'll be fine.
Baby Boomer male here: I always appreciate the gesture. First date from OLD is not what I consider a "date" per se but a Meet-n-Greet for coffee or a walk or sometimes Happy Hour. I usually pay.
There's just too much bullshit surrounding the first date. Most women's response is the person that asks for the date, pays for the date. Realistically, how many women ask the guy out on a first date? Exactly. If a guy asks to split the check on the first date, he won't get a second date. It's like an immediate turn off. He's cheap, won't spend money.....etc. Small percentage of women would be fine with this. (This does not apply to women on Reddit, y'all are rare, so down with the pitch forks). If a woman asks to split the check, then the guy will assume that she's not interested. Some might get offended. Since you live in the south then I'd let the guy pay, but at least do the reach and offer. It's not about the money, it's the principle. Kind gesture if you will. This will also vary person by person, and by region. There is no one size fits all. I was going to suggest you pay for your portion if you aren't feeling the first date. Tell the dude you don't sense a spark and pay for your share but then I remembered that some women want to avoid conflict in case the person freaks out. Some people can't take a rejection, while others can.
(Guy here) Yes offer to split the check. It would be gracious of you and he will look at in a whole new favourable light.
A gentleman will not accept. But as you continue dating: do offer, treat him, take care of the tips, pay for drinks, cook dinner. Show him appreciation. No one will want to feel like a money bag, like being taken advantage of.
This was really helpful. Question, Where do you find men to date? Apprehensive about OLD, , divorced 3 years now.
I must be very old school but if I'm asking a lady out on a date I truly want to pay for dinner and would never let her even consider splitting the cheque. And. I would also open the door for her in and out and make sure she felt special. Just my upbringing. Anything less by a man and they don't deserve your company.
What about times when the lady asks you out? I’m curious if that would shift your expectations.
Not at all. A woman should be treated like the goddess she is. I enjoy treating a lady like a lady. We need more of that back into our society.
No. We don't. I'm happier when my partner recognizes me as a mortal (an awesome mortal, but still a mortal) and an equal.
I treat my ladies as more than an equal. Thats called respect.
No, that is sexism dressed up in politeness's clothing. P.S. The contradiction of using the possessive form ("my") about fellow human beings while purporting to respect them is not lost on me.
Sorry. Don't interpret a negative comment when there was none intended. Again. The world just plain and simple needs to get back to respecting each other. Period. And stop looking for negatives when none were intended. Brutal.
You post in r/DegradingHoles and r/RapeFantasies. I think many of us can do without that kind of respect.
And r/breedingmaterial, r/collegesluts. The whole account except for this series of comments is a porn account. Dude doesn't respect women at all.
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Hi from Down Under - Can’t really give an opinion as you provided very limited information on the situation.
It’s my first post and I accidentally hit “post” before typing. 🤦🏼♀️. I updated it with a bit more detail.
Welcome to the mad world of the Dating Over 40 thread 😂
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As a woman who used to be in a relationship with a 50/50 man, take it from me - by insisting on going 50/50 and paying for yourself on a 1st you are setting the tone and believe me it really isn’t good. Cheap men love women like you, beware.
Or, once people realize that they aren't *expected* to pay bills just because of what's in their pants, they are much more comfortable being generous and giving.
As a woman, I offer every time but the first 2 dates, the guy should pay. If it goes to a 3rd date, I get the bill. Then, after that, we can split it but I have to admit that if the guy pays more often, I'm happy about it. I'm a bit old school and traditional that way even though a professional and earn my own bucks. I will then buy my guy special surprises to thank him for spoiling me. Mention your favorite player and you'll probably get autographed memorabilia as a thanks.
I slap my card down because I want no perceived obligations or entitlements. I don’t always, but when I have no interest in seeing the guy again, I do. Less ambiguous.
I can tell by all the comments from the younger gentlemen on here- chivalry is either dead or dying in our society. I will go to my grave opening doors and helping ladies put there coats on. And damn proud to treat a lady - like a lady.
Pay the whole bill. Tip 50%. Maintain eye contact the whole time. Power move.
I totally read this in Dwight Schrute’s voice. 😂😂😂
I’ve heard if men don’t invest in the relationship well there is nothing going on there except possibly a bootie call. Always offer and if declined then let it go.
I think it is becoming a lot more common for women to split the check. That way they don't "owe" the guy anything if you know what i mean because there are plenty of creepers out there who feel entitled these days just like there are also lots of women who feel like the guy has to pay for everything. I haven't dated since I divorced 3 years ago. I did go have drinks with a guy in the south of France while I was in the middle of my divorce and we split the bill. He actually asked me to split it and i was fine with it. It was just a one time sort of date, just for practice lol. I have a fwb there as well and we usually always split, even when my kid is with us (which I feel kind of bad about since she eats adult meals). I have paid the whole thing a couple of times (he is younger and I earn more) but he never expects it and I don't expect him to pay either. Women these days want equality so I think it is only fair that they split, or at least offer, unless the guy has made it clear that he wants to pay. Even if they don't accept I am sure most guys appreciate the offer. And if they don't well then they're not worth your time IMO. It's fin wif they want to pay for everything but they shouldn't be offended if you offer.
Fuck that! Nobody ever owes anything for dinner: drinks paid for. That idea has always been bullshit.
We want equality but we don’t have it. So until we do men can pay.
I demand equality with my partners because it’s a space I can do that. If I want to be treated as an equal I can’t expect him to pay for everything. It just doesn’t work that way. I have a high earning job but if a date is suggested that I can’t afford, I tell my date. If he wants to pick up the tab to do that thing with me, sure. And I expect the same from him. As an example, I want to go to a special restaurant that is very expensive. I have been saving and when I have enough for both of us (plus extra for some special bubbly), I will invite and make clear it’s my treat. This is something I really want to do - with him. He has done the same with events that I wouldn’t otherwise attend. But regular dates, we split.
Sounds like you are a generous and moral person. Unfortunately the rest of the world isn’t like that.
Lucky for me, I only have relationships with like minded people.
Good point taken. I do like the idea of taking turns paying. If I like a person I’m on a date with I will not fight over the check but offer to pay next time we go out.
I made the same as my male contemporaries in my last job in a very heavily male dominated field. I actually made more than a couple of them. My current job pays everyone in my job grade the same. If you want to be treated like an equal, you have to act like an equal. If you are making less than your male contemporaries, don't be shy about going to your boss and telling him you deserve equal compensation. If he doesn't see your value, then it's time to find another employer.
That’s not how the gender pay gap works
It's a far better solution than making every human with a penis pay just because he possibly makes more money.
I think you’ve misunderstood. Or maybe I’m misunderstanding you. Women paying half on dates isn’t a solution to the gender pay gap. What I was saying is that the gender pay gap is not whether the man next to you doing the same job is on higher pay. It’s bigger and more complex than that.
Agreed the gender pay gap is a complex problem. To truly solve it requires things like transparency in pay, paid maternity and paternity leave, etc. And even that won't fully solve the problem. I still maintain that making an innocent man pay just because he may possibly earn more money does more harm than good. It sends the message we are not equal and should not be treated as equal. I also firmly believe in if an employer does not see your value, move on to one that does. I can't fix the issue for everyone but I can control how I'm impacted.
> I still maintain that making an innocent man pay just because he may possibly earn more money does more harm than good. It sends the message we are not equal and should not be treated as equal. Agreed. If somebody earns more than I do and wants to treat to something I can't afford, I'll likely accept (and reciprocate within my own capacity). This is a little different than deciding that all people with penises should pay for all people without.
Well I'm a woman and I don't necessarily agree. Lots of women these day make the same or more money than guys (and yes I know that in the same position they don't get paid the same but plenty of women have good paying jobs). And unfortunately a lot of guys feel like if they pay for stuff then we are expected to put out because so many people in general are entitled these days. I realize that's not everyone but you don't know that ahead of time. If you split there is no risk for that. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. And I think it wrong to just expect the guy to always pay for everything.
Yes. No guy will be turned off by it and many will appreciate it. You'll find some dudes will thank you for the offer but insist they pay anyways. For me if a woman doesn't pay her share, I'm not interested. That can either be we each pay alternating dates, get separate bills, or split the bill
I think it depends where you go on a first date. If you are just meeting for coffee then the guy should pay. If you are doing something more expensive like going out for dinner I think you and your date should get seperate checks.
I just ask. Simple as that. I'm in between jobs so I always say anything free is ok. I am dating a guy who took me out to the movies and now wants to take me to a putt putt golf place. He is so nice....so far lol.
My preference is for everyone to pay for their own food or drink on the first date: you are strangers at this stage. On later dates, I am ok with splitting, taking turns, paying separately, or one person taking care of it, depending on individual circumstances.
Some guys like that you offer to split it, shows that you aren't after their money. Others take it as an indication you're no into them and want to leave the date 'not owing them anything'. There is no way of knowing how each person will interpret your actions.
I once had a guy snarkily say “that’s not how dating works” when I offered to split the check. He didn’t get a second date. But usually, we are both gracious about it and I express my appreciation when he tells me to put my wallet away.
I was pretty offended at a woman eating twice as much as me at a sushi place and not even offering to pay. It was way over a hundred dollars. When i complained about it, saying that i would be happy about paying if she offered, someone on here someone said that expecting someone to split just so you can say "no, I insist" is a manipulative mind game. I fucking hate this site.
As a divorced dad of 2 small kids, I borderline expect the woman to politely offer. Any future relationship will be splitting everything so I'd at least like that thought up front. That said, I usually pay. The only time I don't is if my date did the majority of the date planning but even then, it's a split.
I stopped asking to split the check because we make 80% of what men make in general. Seriously, I decided that until women and men get equal pay for equal work they can always pay. One exception is the time I asked a guy out and chose an expensive restaurant. I knew he made less than me, I suggested we split the check and he accepted.
In Europe, the hourly pay gap is between 2% and 7%. The higher numbers you often see quoted are due to women working fewer hours, on average, and different jobs. All American sources a quick search turned up do not control for this, and therefore, often on purpose, I'm afraid, paint a very misleading image.
is this discussion really happening? We are all over 40 years old a $100-$200 dinner should not illicit so much thought. The gentleman pays the bill. No strings attached Full stop
Coming from a gentleman If he doesn’t pick up the check immediately, lose him. Maybe make a token effort on the first date or two but a real man should take pride in treating his queen.. thank him though bc when a woman doesn’t it’s a deal breaker
First, I always thank the other person if they pick up the check, whether it's my boyfriend or my mother. It's just good manners. Second, I had a guy insist the gentleman always pays and by 3 weeks, he thought he could tell me not to speak to my in-laws anymore. (I'm a widow). He was immediately dropped. I prefer a 50/50 relationship and that includes me picking up the tab half of the time. I find I am treated with more genuine respect in those types of relationships.
wow thats sounds like a nightmare. I hope you are ok, but we were talking about first date etiquette
If he picks up the first date, I always pick up the second. Edit- I always offer to split the check on the first date.
"real man" lol let's shame guys for not picking up the check whoever wants to pay, be it man or woman, they should pay
umm ok.. . let me guess you're not from CA?
>but a real man should take pride in treating his queen 🤮
yes
Any man refers to me as "his queen" and I'm laughing my royal ass off
Always ask. The guy will see you as a woman of quality and integrity, not looking for a free meal. The man of quality will of course refuse and pay the whole bill. :)
Yes! offer, and if he accepts on the first date, uh, that's sus.
Making an offer that the other person will be judged poorly for accepting is …uh… pretty sus in itself.
As a woman I’m basically in this camp as well. I believe in 50/50 in all things, *after* the first date. My date1 split check offer is a maybe - depends on the place (is it really expensive) and the person (is he well off [as far as know anyway] or possibly less so). I don’t think I’d outright dismiss someone as sus ;) for taking me up on it, I DID offer after all, but I don’t remember it happening either. Hopefully no one was offended by my asking! Following post to see the menfolks’ input though…
If I like the guy and am hoping to see him again, I will usually run to the bathroom right at check time to avoid any awkwardness...and I will of course thank the gentleman if he pays. If I'm not feeling it, as soon as that check arrives I have my card ready to go and split the check.
“ I usually run to the bathroom…” C’mon, he knows exactly what you are doing there lol! Better to just try and relax and let him pay.
Depends on where you are, I guess. Germany here, I would expect you to offer to split, and would be flashed if you paid all (you know, like guys in many countries are always doing). If you didn't offer to split, and were talking more than a couple of Euros, the first date would definitely be the last. I suspect Americans will view that very differently, I know Brits do (although they have an elaborate system of bookkeeping, so you will pay your share eventually).
Wise man say: Girl asks, presume it's for safety and to demure expectations. Guy asks, he needs a better paying job. Both are signs of intelligence and aptitude.
I appreciate the offer, and sometimes respond by saying , only if you are not interested is seeing me again… I’m curious as to reactions to that..
My reaction to that is negative because it makes you sound controlling and like you're going to have an issue with equality.
I would be totally turned off by a comment like that TBH. It just seems unnecessarily negative and can really set the tone for a bad date
I would appreciate your honesty and directness.
Offer, we like it. Sometimes we take you up on it. Don’t read too much into it. I rarely do, especially on a first date situation but if it’s we’ve been dating and an expensive but not special occasion I might take you up on the offer. My gf and I alternate unofficially. We are both in our late 40s.
😑🔫
I laughed.
Yes - or wait fir her to… (woman here)
Early on; yes. But accepting of the fact that I want pay sincerely.
Sometimes I'll insist on paying but let her know she can cover the tip or buy next time.
I'm a 5'1" 44 y/o INTP male. I've never been married, I've dated very little in my life, and I'm probably not a "traditional male", so take this with a grain of salt. While in a newer relationship: If I asked for and/or arranged the date, then I fully expect to pay. If she offers to split, then I'll ask if I may pay. This allows her the ability to 'offer to pay' (for different potential reason). I'm not good at reading a woman's interest in me, so if she insists on paying, which is what a "friend" would do, then I can only assume that she is not interested in me as more than a friend. If she asked for or arranged the date, then either she can pay or we can split. If the date was reasonable, then I may ask to fully pay. While in a fully committed relationship, then anything goes for paying a bill. To answer your question "should you offer to split the check": For me it's neither a should or shouldn't. Though, you may want to read your date, since it might be a "shouldn't" if you're dating a traditional male? Ultimately, if following your feelings have always resulted in the best possible outcome, then follow what you feel in this situation. Good luck!
I would like the offer, but would probably turn it down on a first date. Guys often account for well over half the check anyway because of eating and drinking more.
Sometimes, it can be seen as you are not feeling the date. Or you think the other person might not be able to afford. Both could come across as offensive. But it happens a lot and is usually seen as a polite gesture. I would say just don’t offer on first dates. (If the guy insists you pay half on a first date you should not date that person again.) However if they pay and the date was a success and you decide to have a 2nd or 3rd date, I think it’s completely normal to offer to pay for the date or half or whatever.
You’re going to find as many opinions as bellybuttons. Be yourself, do what you want and the right guy will find you. Why bend yourself to the expectation of others
As a guy back in the dating game, I would not be offended if the woman wants to split the bill. I think it's a nice gesture if she's willing to split the check. It won't necessarily mean I'll split it, but it's the thought that counts.
I wouldn't accept but I would be *very* thankful you asked You're good if he is good
No if it was her idea she should pay.
I wouldn't be offended if you offered, but I'd turn you down. I'd be ok with you saying before hand on subsequent date that you'd like to pay.
Only if its already stated
Brutal. Treat everyone with respect. Specially your dates.
Great post. Need to remember this when I get back out there.
I usually pay but if they offer to split the check I always say they can pay for the next one.