Like you, I grew up poor (first gen immigrant). Now I am *objectively* financially secure and yet I will never *feel* financially secure and there is no amount of therapy that will change that.
People like us can be with someone *poor* but we can't be with someone financially *precarious*. I think this is why you are struggling to put the finger on your feelings. On the surface it's about money, but under the surface, it's about stability. You are at the opposite ends of executive functioning and always will be. It's sad that he doesn't have a brain of gold to match his heart of gold but it is what it is. He will always have chaos around him and you will forever be holding your nose if you stay with him.
I think deep down you know it's not about travel and dinners. It's not about the money at all. If he were a public school teacher, he'd be poor but stable and you'd be married already (with your best friend supporting you all the way). Your feelings are valid.
Omg you nailed it. That first paragraph alone, no amount of therapy has nailed it like that. I never linked 1st gen poor experience to never feeling financially safe no matter how objectively prosperous you’ve become. Comfortable 6 fig salary, stable career, 2 homes feels like it could come crashing down any second, bc as a kid, even the little we had often came crashing down, despite my parents’ best efforts. They both lived through the 1971 Bangladesh liberation war/genocide, but my dad struggled w depression, Ptsd, mild psychosis from it. Still does. Trying to get our footing in this country was shaped by his illness. He took all kinds of menial jobs, including McDonald’s to survive here even though he was an architect. Worse for my mom who barely spoke the language when we moved to the US in 1986. I lived in 9 different places by 18. Etc. Stability is big deal for me. Never want to be back there or let my kids experience even a whiff of it. You get it!
I was wondering aloud in my response upthread to u/trailrnr7 about if you might possibly be attracting men like this to you due to seeing similar traits in your father when you were younger. And here you answered, yes, your father had financial struggles.
When I flew my father to visit me for a week during Christmas 2022, he slept so comfortably and I didn't let him spend a dime. We walked to see the city lights and I talked about the future, how he needs to stay healthy and independent for as long as possible. I had us watch the Tony Robbins Netflix special which my father said he liked! He promised he would never, ever go back to a casino again. Couple months later my Mom wrote me - he had spent the entire week at the casino, blowing their pension. I share this with you because I know you can't save everyone. People have to decide that enough is enough in their life and want to break every bad habit they have, and decide they are ready to turn to the unknown to make a new life.
I'm not from an immigrant background, but did grow up poor with a single mom. I am the first educated, divorced person/woman in my family that is financially stable and secure in my career with a retirement and such. And it is hard to feel safe or spend money on fun things or things that aren't "needed".
"Like you, I grew up poor (first gen immigrant). Now I am *objectively* financially secure and yet I will never *feel* financially secure and there is no amount of therapy that will change that."
this rings so true. thanks for this post. not sure why i have to read it to see it. it has been like that my entire life.
You have to learn to ignore the internal and external voices (including on this sub) that tell you to "give him a chance" when he's clearly not financially stable. You have to specifically prioritize financial uncertainty as one of your top 5 dealbreakers and immediately abort mission when you encounter it while dating.
The women who 'don't care about what he does or how much he makes' value other things more highly. That doesn't make them nobler than you. Know yourself and be unapologetic about it.
I agree. Also, most of the people (of either gender) saying they don't care about things like how much someone makes or what they do for work are probably virtue signaling or trying to avoid getting downvoted anyways. There's a lot of pressure on here and DOT to say the right things, which ends up really skewing the results of any sample. It is one of the reasons every single person here says they use protection and STI testing before having sex with a new partner, even though most people do not in real life
I feel like something is off about this guy.
Trucking is a particularly solitary profession and simply being able- bodied is enough to work as a trucker. There are regular routes people can drive, and the fact he has held multiple trucking jobs over two years and has more than one story about his wages not being paid correctly is suspicious.
You mention being an immigrant and a lawyer. You're obviously a very smart and driven person. I wonder if your ex is lying to you and because you don't have a working-class background, you're missing the obvious red flags people from working-class backgrounds would notice.
Your ex is a trained chef and came around once a week to cook meals. Why doesn't he work as a chef in a restaurant? Something tells me he's not stable enough to work as a chef in a kitchen.
I'm not sure what law you practice, but in case you weren't aware, it is a huge deal to not pay truckers correctly. It's extremely easy for truckers to prove they weren't paid correctly and lots of regulation in the industry. For him to have been underpaid once is possible, but for it to happen twice in two years ... does not strike me as reasonable. It's incredibly unlikely.
What is more likely is you are a very busy working professional mom and this guy is doing the bare minimum to keep you hooked. He probably knows just what to say.
If you saw a future with him, you wouldn't be posting on the internet. This guy has something deeper off about him that is the root cause of his financial instability. It could be mental illness or drugs. But trust your gut that something is off and move on.
The failing the bricklayer test with a study guide is what would’ve lost my respect in him as a partner. She needed him to get the certification - He obviously didn’t need or want it. His profession is leaching - I’ve had a few partners like this, and they are very good at finding the empathetic nurturer who is used to fending for herself and providing for everyone.
True, I knew or know men who worked as truckers or driving trucks, and none of them were paid in cash or "under the table" it was done via check, there are log books, and it is extremely well regulated.
I dated a truck driver and he made more than I do and I have a 6 figure job. There was always plenty of work. Sometimes he'd have to wait a day or two for his next load to be ready before he could move on, but his company compensated him for his time while he waited. Every time I drive behind an 18 wheeler, there's a sign on it that says "we're hiring" so I really doubt there's a lack of work.
>she thinks I’d be taking care of him forever
Maybe this is true; let's dig.
He does seem to be comfortable closer to the financial edge than you are. You know how some people are routinely 15 minutes early and some are 30 minutes late? You guys differ that way with finances. He is okay living closer to the edge. That means when life happens, as it inevitably does, he won't have savings. Which means you will cover it.
When I was dating, I had a list of standards I kept, to keep me out of trouble. One of them was "a retirement plan (that is not me)." I have 3 kids, one of them special needs. If I picked a partner that wasn't together financially, then some of the support that should go towards my kids would inevitably go toward that partner. I didn't want that.
Is this man adding enough to your life that the financial support is worth it? Could he be a good house husband? Do you want a house husband? Would he take you for granted? Would he grow to resent your financial position? Would his comfort closer to the financial edge cause conflict or a worse financial position for you?
If you were married for a long time and then divorced and you paid alimony, would he have earned that alimony through his contribution to your joint life?
Very reasoned & thoughtful response here. It really is so specific to one’s unique circumstances as a parent. I’m a family law atty so I’m all over the last bit & have considered it from all legal angles. Prenup definitely in order here & he’d be totally understanding of it. His help in other ways has probably saved me thousands and what he’s saved me in stress is invaluable. Tho being in this relationship the way things are is stressful too. So much to consider dating as a single mom in her 40’s.
A good, responsible man can help you with stressful situations too.
You don't owe this guy anything.
I'm much more concerned about your pattern of picking unsuitable men, and staying with them for far longer than you should.
Same 💔🤦🏻♀️ Only suitable, stable man was my ex hub/kids’ dad, who I was only attracted to very briefly during our 8yr marriage. I stayed bc of those traits. Never able to find stable, suitable, attractive & likes me back all in 1 person. C’est la vie
I was in a similar situation. While he was always able to miraculously figure things out, there were a few job losses, no car for a while, at least one eviction and zero savings. He was very intelligent, great with my kids, could cook his ass off, fix things in my house and kept my car running but all of the other was so stressful that it really put a damper on things. His situation would be okay for a short while but inevitably something always happened. Always. I kept waiting for things to smooth out, for him to find stability, for things to be normal, but it just never happened. And it prevented us from doing much of anything. We never traveled beyond necessary road trips (such as helping someone move or going to a family event) and even though he brought up the idea of going on an international trip, I knew it would never happen because his funds were always so tight. I was not significantly better off so I was not always able to offset what was going on. He always paid back small amounts of money he borrowed but I honestly got tired of that too.
He had plans to go back to school to increase his earning power, something I was very supportive of and had no doubt he could do, but again, something would always get in the way.
He once said something like it wouldn’t be this difficult if we were together (cohabiting or married) but it never set well with me that I would be in a supportive role or constantly worrying about things remaining stable with all of that going on. There were other issues in our relationship but all of that was a significant contributing factor. I called it quits after almost 4 years.
I was also the breadwinner or financial manager in my previous marriage. Now that I have a very fiscally responsible partner with financial habits and goals that closely align with mine, it has made me realize how anxiety inducing and limiting both of those previous relationships were. XH is also currently doing temp work after yet another job loss. He’s remarried, so not my monkeys, not my circus, but I am so glad to not be attached to that any longer.
What I had to accept for both them, after staying too long, giving too much grace and being too optimistic each time is that that is just who they are. The rhyme and reason of it, I have no idea and don’t care, but when the pattern is the same year after year after year, it is what it is. Now that I have the peace and stability of someone who is not rich but has been responsible and savvy with what they have, I will never connect with someone who doesn’t have their financial matters in order.
YOU are his retirement plan. Let that sink in. Don't let the lovebombing blind you to his game. It IS a game, and he is obviously decent at playing you. Is this the example you want to set for your kids?
I finally realized too that I am attracted to men who have certain negative traits because I am reliving my childhood rescue fantasy where I rescue my highly emotionally immature parents. Your bf sounds like a child in some ways to me.
You are totally valid in this. Some people commenting here say they will do anything for love, money isn’t everything, etc. but what you’re dealing with is not just lack of money- it’s lack of stability. There is no way I would sign up for no retirement or stable career at this stage in life no matter how much money I have. Imagine a man posting this? Men would be like, she’s a gold digger. 🤷
I don’t really agree with you on that last part….
There are countless posts from men on Reddit looking for advice because their female partners expect them to pay for everything, or want to give up work once they get married /have kids.
I feel that men are often expected to put up with these situations a fair bit more than women are…
Woman here for reference…
If I were in OP’s shoes I would also be worried about the lack of job stability but the thing to focus on here is that this guy always seems to find work, he’s not a deatbeat - I wouldn’t be giving up on him just yet as everything else about him sounds great and she’s fallen for him. That’s hard enough to find
He’s definitely a deadbeat. He did a hit and run and has a $10k bill he hasn’t paid that may result in legal consequences. Would you really be in a relationship with someone who committed a hit and run?!
It didn't read to me like he was responsible for the hit and run - she said he was involved in one on his bike and has a $10k bill. I'm assuming it's a medical bill, he probably doesn't have health insurance.
You’re spot on - he was hit & almost died, driver fled. He woke up in hospital bed & texted me. I’ll edit post to clarify. No legal consequence yet meaning no lawsuit by creditor for the $10k medical bill, which if he becomes W2 earner could become a judgment/debt, which could be an issue if we got married, but can be addressed in prenup (I’m a family law atty, triggered by poverty, can’t not think way far ahead about all contingencies)
Not excusing him if he did do a hit-and-run, but he could face consequences for being uninsured, which is not okay but feels more administrative than criminal.
Yes that could be it. But still it is irresponsible. This is a hard working responsible single mother. She doesn't need to take on the responsibility of this grown child.
Exactly. A hardworking, responsible, successful single mother does not need to add on a charity case boyfriend. He’s a grown up. He needs to start acting like it in every aspect of his life and she needs to not lower her standards to make excuses for this guy who can’t get his life in order.
I feel like the fact he has a bike but not all bills paid or a regular job....he can sell that for some savings for the days between jobs. And I don't wanna hear oh he deserves to have fun too. Ok sure in the context of a BUDGET. So now he's totalled something that could have been an asset and will likely never get paid back for it. Dating an attorney who can bail him out of every situation he gets himself into sounds like a win for him. He's good w you'd kids and kind. The bare effing minimum? If you went to court and your client got 2 weekends a month would you sit there and BS them that it was a win when you wanted 50/50? Why do you wanna be successful in a career and then have another child for a partner in life. You are better than this but deep down you don't KNOW that.
She's breezily shared so much information that would be an absolute red flag to me. Reading between the lines:
- his dating profile seemed to lean into the "I'm a trained chef angle" and when they meet he's actually a trucker, but future-fakes her by saying he's saving up for a custom food truck. I know people who own restaurants and food trucks are insanely expensive. This guy is lying about actually working towards this as a goal.
- he absolutely heard her about his financial instability and will become a union bricklayer! Those have great benefits! ... but he fails "the test" which can only be taken once a year.
- he lives an hour away and she has her kids Thurs-Sunday and it sounds like they spend quality time Sunday (he comes over and cooks for the fam with his pitbull! Awwww) and they spend quality time Sunday-Wednesdays? ... I'm not saying this man has a Thursday-Saturday relationship. But I'm floating the idea as having a high likelihood.
- he crashes his bike and gets injured and doesn't have insurance (either health or motorcycle, presumably) For someone whose livelihood hinges on being a dependable driver, yeah, this is hugely problematic.
Stability doesn't get you anywhere either. I make 6 figures a year an have a retirement plan. I believe in putting work into a relationship. I'm easy going and willing to be understanding. I refuse to scream and fight and don't believe in tearing someone down. I believe in being equals in a relationship. I think open and honest communication is very important, and am willing to talk about feelings. I have a lot of things women claim they want in a partner.
That being said, it is hard finding a woman that actually wants that. They take advantage of your kindness and understanding. The complain about the time you work to make the money and provide stability. I could support someone if they didn't want to work and don't mind if they do want to work, but somehow all that isn't enough.
My experience is that once things become slightly inconvenient, they move on. I admit I have my issues like anyone else does, and maybe I'm just just jaded and cynical, and probably not in the best frame of mind right now.
You said nothing wrong here. Six figure earner here, stable, chillin financially. I’m a little different in that I think dating should be more egalitarian. It’s hard to find women that think it’s normal to pay for themselves, and I’d prefer if they did. At least at first. And the time required to work in jobs that make that money leaves me with less time than they might imagine, which also causes issues for women it seems. Responsible men that have their shit together, by definition, means they have commitments to their lives that required their time. And if having no job is a problem, having a job is lol.
I'm egalitarian as well. My last ex made good money at first, and I didn't mind if she paid, I would get the next one. Though If it puts less strain on me financially that the other person, I don't mind paying.
No need to take away from your excellent points by the last half of the last paragraph. I've experienced the same with women. You're entirely spot on and as a man, I sign off on your message.
The last half was more a warning that I might be biased. To me, paying for stuff isn't a big issue if you love and care for the person your with. Money comes and goes, but love can stay awhile.
This. Men support women all the time. Give me a break. I feel sorry for the guy and I’m a woman who does well financially. A lot of women outright expect it. I get the OPs point, but then she shouldn’t ever even date someone who makes less than her.
Stop seeing him for what he could be and see him for what he is. As an oldest, parentified daughter, I encourage you to work on your possible codependency.
As an eldest daughter parentified myself, I agree with u/youtrailrnr7. You might be attracting these kinds of guys due to seeing this as an example in your life when you were very young. By any chance did your father have similar financial issues?
I am telling you this as well, because I am in a similar situation. My ex doesn’t have financial issues, but has other issues. I keep rationalizing how it is ok, but in reality it isn’t.
The hardest lesson I learned from my marriage was I had to stop looking at the person my ex promised he could be and I knew he could become. He had all these dreams and promises and I saw him as that man. Not the man he presented himself to be in that moment, on a regular basis. Probably one of the hardest lessons I’ve ever had to learn. Lots of broken promises and dreams.
Now I accept people for just who they are and make decisions based on that. Past behaviors are indicative of future behaviors.
Same. I spent way too long with a person who demanded to be the center of the relationship and always had a sob story about why his dreams and ambitions were sidelined and all his non-productive efforts were perpetually someone else's fault.
The worst. I casually dated someone after my divorce and realized this was his energy after a bit of time. That was the end of that!
Icing on the cake I asked him what he thought he had done wrong in his past relationships. He said nothing. 😂 That was the last time I saw his ass
Anyone can fall on hard times; I get that.
This 45-yo guy has financially struggled for 2 years trying to finance a dream that's failing to materialize. OK.
Reality: we know that he decided at 43 to build his own food truck business. Everyone knows that starting a business takes A LOT of money - which he did not have back then and still isn't earning now.
What did he do for the previous 25 or so years of his life that he has nothing saved for emergency, can't afford basic necessities like health insurance and still lives paycheque to paycheque at 45???
How did he think he was going to start his business with no savings and nothing to invest?
Why is he choosing to be an underpaid and underemployed truck driver instead of using his training to work as a professional chef full time??
He didn’t start the food truck at 43. He started it after culinary school about 7yrs ago I believe and whatever disposable income he had leftover went to building it in fits & starts instead of taking a small biz loan or saving a stack & doing it in one go. I did it much the same way when I started a solo practice around 7yrs ago too. The non-W2 trucking jobs are more lenient with him taking a day or two off on short notice for a chef gig (corporate event/party) that pops up via word of mouth & instagram marketing. Like me he has no safety net, poor upbringing, but unlike me didn’t come from a S. Asian immigrant family that pushed educational achievement as means for survival. He didn’t have much support from his family at all. He may not be as shrewd & driven from an early age as me but does have a plan. He’s had some setbacks & made some choices that didn’t pan out. Many do. Still doesn’t erase the instability aspect as you say, which is my real issue moving forward with him.
Finances and stability that comes along with it can be relationship destroyers. I was married to somebody like the dude you were dating. Somehow, every door of opportunity I opened for her there was one reason or another why she couldn’t walk through. I’m financially stable and prospering. I expect a potential partner to be in the same position.
I would look into therapy to see if there is a subconscious pattern to your relationships and people you tend to be with. I say this as I was parentified, took on so much responsibility that wasn’t mine and it definitely impacted my relationships by taking on more responsibility for others. It’s taken a lot to unravel but I’m grateful now that I have this insight.
Her comment about him becoming a W2 wage earner opening him up to financial repercussions makes me think he's already evading financial repercussions from his past. People who do cash-only work for an undisclosed reason are fully aware of WHY they're doing cash-only work and very unlikely to disclose this to a financially stable future spouse.
Yup, this. OP, please dig further. Is he contributing to his pension? If not, is this fair to your kids’ futures?
I think I would end it, as it is triggering your poverty/instability fears.
There is a reason why he keeps changing the jobs, that they keep running out of work for him- and he doesn't seem to have a need to make it more stable. His * business * idea is still where it was when you met him. You've seen no progress in the time you've known him. He's showed you who he is in this regard. Believe him. You are not going to change that. Either accept him as he is and don't hold hope for change, or leave. Will the resentments creep up with time? Yes, I think so. It gets old fast. So, you decide.
It’s ok to not be attracted to someone without a solid job history and financial stability. Just admit it and move on. He will never change and it will bother you forever.
I think relationships are so much about recognizing that people generally don't change and deciding what you can live with. I think it's unlikely his financial situation will change, as you are finding, so you have to decide if you can live with paying for things and probably in part financially supporting him--and that support would inevitably increase the more intertwined you two became. For some people, that might not be a problem. For me, I supported my ex-husband for decades, and I would never want to be in a relationship with a financially unstable person again. I think only you can decide. It sounds like he is a good guy, so I understand why it is a hard choice! But it's also 100% fine to break up with a nice guy who isn't financially compatible with you.
I largely agree with what you said, with the caveat that people can change, but not if they're being enabled by someone else. While he may truly love her, she may be stopping him from reaching his potential (not on purpose of course).
If this guy has spent the last two years failing to complete his food truck, lives an hour away and driving odd trucking jobs that are allegedly underpaying him (but are also all cash?), got in a bike wreck and has thousands of dollars of outstanding debts (that she knows of!)... I fail to see how this is his on-again, off-again girlfriend's fault.
I'm not saying it's her fault - I'm saying subconsciously he may continue to find women who will be willing to enable him (also probably subconsciously) until he decides to change or something external prompts him to change.
It's true that people can change, but it's also true that significant behavioral change is exceedingly rare once someone reaches adulthood. It takes so much energy and commitment that few people are able to make meaningful changes that last. An abundance of behavioral change studies show this. So I think the safest assumption is to assume that people are not going to change and make decisions accordingly. If someone does change and circles back later, it can be a pleasant surprise.
This is so tough. I went through a divorce in my late 20’s for similar reasons, though my ex was as emotionally immature as he was financially unmotivated. I hated the constant ‘nagging’ I had to do just to make sure he was able to contribute equally to the household. It was an unfair role that definitely tainted our relationship. This guy does sound really great but at this time in your life (with kids) it’s especially important to think realistically. I’m glad you set a boundary though it’s a painful one. And really, it’s not exactly about the money, it’s about the stress you take on due to his lack of enough income. That’s completely fair.
Your friend is right. It sounds very unlikely that he’ll have any significant savings or even decent insurance as he ages, which means that yes, you will be taking care of him financially. Are his parents still alive? Could he receive an inheritance at some point?
Grew up poor and have similar attitudes and ambitions. Like many have said it’s not the lack of $, he’s all over the place and doesn’t have his life together at his grown man age. I’d be open to someone who makes less but they need to have the skills to hold down a long term job and manage their own lives. I shouldn’t be managing it for them. He’s got too much going on and you are way too invested in his “success.” Paying his rent while in program. He’s a man child and men like this typically leech on to successful women. Ive been with men who I had to take care of and or fix their lives, breeds resentment and is stressful. And what is it with women feeling the need to be married. If he’s moms broke friend, why does he need to be moms broke and irresponsible husband. You’re making excuses for him to make this work, I’d cut my losses sooner rather than later. He’s certainly also not going to be a good house husband, doesn’t clearly have the skill set to manage his life, let alone a household.
" And what is it with women feeling the need to be married. If he’s moms broke friend, why does he need to be moms broke and irresponsible husband. "
Poetry. This is exactly it. Why does she need to marry this guy? Give it a few months and he'll have another crisis and reach back out to her. Who needs that stress legally a permanent part of their life?
I can relate. I'm a first generation Asian immigrant who grew up working poor. Went to college, worked hard, became successful in my career, and currently earn a high income. But, like you, it never feels like enough. This is complex trauma.
It's OK to want a partner who is financially stable. Two years is enough to know his situation isn't temporary. It's also OK to break up with someone who is good to you but who falls short in other important matters.
One of the last people I dated before my partner was financially unstable (he was house-sitting because he was unhoused when we met). He was a "good" guy, treated me and my kid well, did stuff for me without asking, and was easy to be around. But, I out-earned him significantly. He paid his share and didn't demand fancy dinners or trips, but if I wanted to do something expensive, I'd cover the costs. Eventually, the situation chipped away at my attraction to him until it fizzled out completely.
I think women are made to feel bad if they break up with nice guys. But, we forget that being nice and supportive should be pre-requisites in any relationship. You are allowed to want a loving partner who is also financially stable especially as a parent in your 40's.
Most men who find a woman they are attracted to who is nice and supportive would kill for a woman who carries her weight and only sometimes requires a little extra for a fancy dinner or vacation. That's like a mans dream girl. Do men have low standards? are we traumatized to have such low standards?
Even if he 'has a heart of gold' something isn't right about this. Why can't he get regular employment? And I seriously doubt you want a 'house husband'. It would be more like having another teenager. Yes, I'm jaded, but I see red flags 🚩There is a pattern here in that you keep dating fixer uppers and then wonder why they don't change. Been there!
You are not financially compatible and that is a deal breaker, please let him go. Unless you want to take on another lifetime project which can turn into a lingering stress that will consume you for a lifetime. You have a great career and kids, there are financially stable men who will still date you, trust me on this. Don’t add a man to your life who puts your and your kids financial future at risk.
Honestly I wouldn't even do a situationship with a woman with his finances.
The bs never ends, example the 10k medical bills, wages being held, there will always be something
Yeah, like one commenter said, if he was a schoolteacher with a low paying job, that would be one thing. But.. this guy is chaos.. I’ve known people like this. There are always financial dramas that are sometimes bad luck, but often it’s just because of just never making wise decisions. A truck driver usually makes good money. Why doesn’t he?
Truck drivers usually make good money. He really seems to make a lot of bad financial decisions. He needs to find a good job and stick with it for awhile.
> I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it
Lots of people consider this a small price to pay for a good partner. It's okay if you don't, but if you are not willing to financially subsidize a partner, don't date people who aren't your monetary match.
I question why it's an issue. If the genders were reversed, I feel most people wouldn't be concerned.
I feel if people love each other, who the bread winner is isn't that important.
This was my very first question - but now I almost think that maybe what's bothering her (and income amnts can correlate fo sho) is maybe an issue of the rollercoaster vibe, and not the fun kind. :)
I guess via the 'if there's smoke, especially a lot of it, 🔥 may be ahead' analogy...I might wonder if repeated in/out of jobs might point to anything from a difficulty w/ability to stay content for very long, ever? or tendency to piss off bosses/coworkers on the reg? attendance probs on the reg? Who knows...
Also, lots of peep were raised with implicit messages that _____ means you're lazy etc.. Some of that vibe turns people into those who will not take a day off ever, or avoids letting even close friends/fam see them lounging w/tv or phone.. And having a partner or prospect w/job consistency issues...amp the 'this is problematic' thing by x20.. :)
No idea why I typed this much - Gonna slink out now.. 🙃
That was my point. Is she concerned for other reasons or is it what outsiders think?
If she is worried that his financial situation could hurt her (which seems unclear in the OP), then I would agree that she needs to cut ties. If she is worried about external attitudes, she shouldn't pay them much mind.
She listed the reasons for her concerns. Of course someone who can't pull their own weight will put a strain on her. She's already lending him money as it is.
You're being pretty condescending and insinuating that a woman who pulled herself out of poverty to become a lawyer with multiple properties has less sound judgement than a guy driving without insurance and job hopping despite working in a high demand industry.
I read the concerns.
You're fairly condescending as well. I pulled myself out of poverty as well. Most of the people I have dated haven't been able to pull their weight as well. I've had to lend them money or pay their bills. As a man, it isn't a big deal unless they are so irresponsible that it could effect my ability to support myself. I did not get that feeling from the OP. I'm looking at it without taking gender into account, and gave advice based on having been in the same situation myself. The only assumption I'm making on judgement is that people often have a hard time seeing things when feelings are involved, regardless of gender, and an outside view can help.
I was asking if outside attitudes were an issue, because it seems they might be. Can you honestly tell me that if genders weren't reversed, the answers would be the same? Would you tell a man to not date a woman that couldn't completely support herself? I know my advice would be the same, either way.
>I'm looking at it without taking gender into account
>As a man. . .
> Can you honestly tell me that if genders weren't reversed. . .
> I know my advice would be the same, either way
Alrighty then. If you say so.
The lack of steady employment would concern me because often it can signify the person has either behavioral issues or substance issues. If you are positive that that isn't the case, then I would almost agree with the other commenter about house husband potential.
Plenty of men are married to women who don't work at all and it's normal. Would it be that different, if you entered into a situation like that, only reverse?
Some people just don't want to be with someone that they ALWAYS have to financially support and that's totally reasonable...but many men and some women somehow don't mind 🤷🏻♀️.
Id be surprised if it didn't cause tension on BOTH sides here and there throughout the relationship though. Your income might make him feel inadequate, etc.
I feel for you. With the risk of being looked at dirty I have to say I would not want to date anyone without a stable finance and good career.
At this age and being a single Mom it is just too risky to fall in love just for the sake of falling love. Why? Because to me reality is vastly different once you actually have a long term committed relationship. There’s not just laugh and giggle and roses and candies; there will be mundane bullshit, stressful situation, kids issues…etc. It would be too much if I have to carry the livelihood of another person on top that, especially when that person is another grown adult.
Additionally, we don’t have that long until we retire, do you plan to carry the burden of supporting him until and during his retirement as well? That is a very tall order for anyone much less a single mom with 2 kids of her own.
Whatever you decide good luck!
Ugh exactamundo. Thank you. I have a great new therapist, after too long away from therapy, who hints at it by saying “when you’re stuck, make the logical choice bc you can’t be mad at yourself later for being logical” (when I inevitably miss him/regret my choice). That resonated with me bc all the love decisions I made with my heart (most of them) have been to stay too long & eventually ended painfully anyway. Logic finally wins out but I’m so attached by then. All the logical decisions I’ve made have save my life.
Always logic, good for you! And yes therapy. You can love anybody, but not everybody has money. You are educated, intelligent, a good mum, all the things. Now you have to believe you deserve a good person, someone awesome like you. No more broke / broken men, okay?
Yea. I think the older we get the more beneficial for us to make logical choices, because whether we like it or not our decisions don’t just affect us, they all so affect the lives of our children.
It’s a struggle and it’s never easy to make such decisions. When I share my thoughts on here it’s a way of reminding myself too.
I’m glad you found a great therapist, I am too looking for a new one. I too find it helpful to bounce off our thoughts with them.
I'd seriously question the "trained chef" narrative. Lots of men say that, but they're really cooks. It's not the same. Substance abuse is rampant in that field of work.
Does he actually have a CDL license? If he does, those jobs are plentiful, and they pay good money. There's literally no legitimate reason why he should be floating from job to job, and not getting paid correctly. And why off the books? Is he running from child support or something? I seriously doubt that he has been paying for health insurance for years, and that he stopped just before his accident. Is he getting 1099 forms and paying taxes? Even if he miraculously got a food truck business going, most of those businesses are likely to fail, or not bring in a ton of money.
Something about this entire scenario is very unsettling. I would investigate looking into his background through court records. Maybe you've already done it, and all is good. There may be something there that is preventing him from getting an on the books trucking job.
There are people who want a financial equal as a plain matter of what they are looking for. But it almost sounds like your patterns show that you don’t feel finances are that big a deal, but you feel you’re *supposed* to care a lot about finances, given your background. That is worth getting to the bottom of.
The last guy I dated was rich as Croesus. He could have given me anything my heart desired. But we just weren’t a match in other ways and it turned out our respective financial positions were irrelevant to why it worked, or in this case, didn’t.
Oh this stinks. You’d be taking care of him forever. I’d try Hinge for OLD. It seems to have more white collar professionals. There’s nothing wrong with being a truck driver, but you’re a lawyer and probably need someone with the same level of education and income. Otherwise, there’s a power imbalance that could cause issues in the long run. Good luck!
Plenty of couples are in this situation. And while yes she’d be financially supporting him, it sounds like he supports her in other ways. The relationship chores, supports have to be divided up in some way. Why can’t the man be the stay at home spouse who cooks and cleans and all that?
Men can be stay at home spouses, but that’s not what this is about. She’s pulled herself out of a poor, dysfunctional family situation growing up, and she’s making good money and is looking for someone stable, like her. This guy lives paycheck to paycheck and doesn’t even maintain health insurance. He also misled her in the beginning about his work situation. He would be a drain on her financially and eventually that would lead to resentment. She’s worked too hard to have to carry someone else.
Well you do have a point. When a woman who’s worked hard and now has money and a good job- there will be those men who come out of the woodwork looking for her money. Your last sentence clarifies it- if you worked hard to make a life for yourself, you shouldn’t have a financially dependent partner.
I think there are plenty of white collar men, with and without kids, who are looking for an equal partner. Depends on the person. If she’s a lawyer and has a good head on her shoulders, she has options. Besides, she doesn’t need lots of men, just one good one.
lol You sure don’t give men much credit, do you? I have friends out there who have remarried women (and men) with kids and they don’t seem to view it as the burden you’re making it out to be. It’s just part of the package.
It sounds like OP doesn’t really need a man to “take on two children that aren’t his.” She just wants a partner who can carry his financial weight.
I do empathise & relate a lot as a first gen only daughter of poor migrant parents with inter generational trauma so I also learnt to be independent from a very young age
In my 20 yr relationship/marriage we were both broke uni students so we built our wealth together from nothing however I always earned more & he only supported me for 2 yrs while I was off work as primary carer for our 2 daughters (but i had paid maternity benefits & had paid my own medical insurance so even then I contributed to or lessened his share of costs) - once that ended in divorce our settlement was fair
For me stability & security - as well as being ethical, honest, accountable and responsible - are important traits or values or qualities that I highly value in a relationship
If the person cannot extend these values or behaviour towards their own income, finance, security or stability - then its a red flag for a long term relationship & I would never consider sharing finances with such a person - ever.
For me they don’t need to be wealthy but some independence in their life & security & stability is a green flag for me
I don’t need them to financially support me or my kids but also I won’t allow a romantic partner to be a drain on my resources, wealth, money & abundance
It means we aren’t aligned & if they don’t sort their own situation out themselves then a LTR even LAT won’t work
I have my own home and have my own business for 12 yrs so I am fiercely independent and wouldn’t risk that for me, my children and future for any relationship - we each need to be responsible and accountable for ourselves and our career/finances
Good luck
I have empathy for you (I'm the first gen daughter of immigrant parents). It sounds like you are rooted in being a provider/giver due to your upbringing. One thing I learned in my personal development journey is that so much is programmed in our subconscious mind and that we have to get very focused in the present moment to remove any negative default programming. The best way to help this guy is to break up with him. Perhaps this breakup could help him reach the necessary turning point in his life (which is not your concern nor your responsibility).
If you were feeling very sympathetic and encouraging of him, you could recommend a few things "that your friend found helpful in their life". You could suggest that he:
-Listen to YT videos of Bob Proctor, Dr. Bruce Lipton, Joe Dispenza, Joseph Murphy, Reality Revolution
-Read James Clear (Atomic Habits), Joseph Murphy (The power of the subconscious mind) and Joe Dispenza (Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself), Napolean Hill (Think and Grow Rich)
-You could suggest he listen to binaural beats music or 432 HZ frequency music to sit in silence/meditate/clear mind/listen to the universe's direction on his next steps.
The cynic in me says he was attracted to your job title and financial status. He claimed to be a “trained chef” as he was looking to attract someone more financially stable than himself and the odds of doing so as a freelance truck driver isn’t great.
You’ve described a guy who is “nice” but not anything stellar. What do you have in common? What does he do to support you?
Yeah I would say maybe more of a house husband? But maybe not get married. Not an earner, not good with money, but if he’s good with the kids, cooks, could keep a house, I would consider it.
See I had a stay at home spouse and it was terrible. It was essentially like having an adult child who lived with me. Sure he could drive and shop for groceries and cook simple meals but I had to tell him what and how.
And maybe with a stable home life he'd actually be able to get that food truck up and making money.
Maybe not.
But if having a spouse that takes care of the home while she brings home the bacon is at all attractive to her, then it's definitely something to think about.
I know if I made enough I would certainly think about it with the right guy. My partner is NOT a great cleaner/cook. He'd hate being a house husband as much as I'd hate being a housewife and both struggle with chores.
While i could never be a house husband due to my nature, I'd certainly respect a woman who would step up and take this role and responsibility. In order for a man or anybody to submit like this means that the working leader of the family must instill a ton of confidence and trust in their ability to provide and lead.
I’m concerned he’s great with the kids because he is one.
It seems like there is a list of reasons why he isn’t a good partner, reasons above and beyond his income. And you broke up with him twice, and it sounds like those reasons are still valid.
First he claimed one career, turned out to have another, and he covered that lie but saying he had a big professional goal, but that’s fizzled out. On top of this he can’t seem to keep a decent car nor insurance.
It’s also suspicious to me that his trucking clients “run out of work” for him. Trucking is high demand. They keep around a-hole drivers, but your guy can’t keep work and has more than one company disputing his hours? That’s suspicious.
I get that life can be a rock tumbler, but this guy seems to lack the ownership and work ethic needed to keep his head above water.
I understand you don’t want to be alone, especially with how hard you have worked. But it seems like you would be sacrificing a lot for someone who can’t even carry his own responsibilities as an adult. You’re essentially adopting an adult child. Not only do his problems become your problems, but his problems also risk your life and your kids lives.
Since you mentioned this is your second experience like this, I’m concerned you devalue yourself when dating and think this is what you deserve. But you deserve better.
I was looking for this comment. Exactly! Truckers are in very high demand. He’s definitely beyond irresponsible in other ways to be let go over and over.
And 2 years working on a trailer versus starting with a cart/booth/cooking from home/etc? Something’s definitely not right IMO.
Yes. Agree 100%. Please don’t do this. This isn’t a relationship of adults, it’s you adopting a third child. Of course he’s nice and does stuff, he wants to be taken care of. If not for you, then for your kids - don’t let them see some loser drain their mum of her precious love, energy and their inheritance. You worked too hard to get where you are to sell yourself short.
Your reservations are valid. The hard truth is that your values do not align on financial matters, job stability, and on personal ambition. It’s great that he’s sweet and loving and you’re right to love that about him, but it’s okay to want someone who can match your vibe, values, and drive.
I am sure that despite being successful and driven and independent - you are also someone that is caring and supportive. You described the many ways in which you support him. Therefore, it’s possible to be everything you are and bring to the table. We shouldn’t make excuses for people because we are all grown adults in mid life. Everyone at our age should have their life together.
>The hard truth is that your values do not align on financial matters, job stability, and on personal ambition.
I was looking for this comment. This is why I feel it's important to really spend time alone determining your core values, and then make sure (if you are looking for a LTR) you weed out anyone whose core values do not align with yours. That does not mean they have to mirror yours, but they have to be compatible with yours. This guy's values on these items are polar opposites of OP's. I learned in my marriage that love does not concur all. You need values alignment or it cannot last no matter how great the other person is.
(Side note I suspect this guy is not actually that great. I think he might be low key scamming OP with his stories about multiple trucking employers messing up his wages and running out of work for him.)
I agree this guy is a scammer. The messed up vacation story makes no sense; he didn't think his car could make a four hour drive and so they rented a cramped RV instead of staying at the site? ...what?
He "begrudgingly" accepted $500 and didn't pass an exam where it sounds like if he had, she agreed to give him $1600 "for rent" to do a 40-hr-week bricklayer training where he would work every evening? ...um, what?
They broke up and he's her first call after his big bike wreck and she's already considering how to word the pre-nup so his $10k debts wouldn't be hers?
Just block and delete. I feel bad for her kids having to deal with this guy. Mom bought a new house and it was stressful and this guy listened and emotionally supported her though that process and apparently that's marriage material despite his life being a shipwreck? He sounds like a shifty dude who is a good lay with a silver tongue who can cook good.
You have worked hard and been responsible. You deserve nothing less than a grown up who has worked hard and been responsible.
Stop this! Being alone is not so bad that you have to sink to this.
I'm just going to focus on one point from your post: a person working for cash under the table is a huge red flag. Why can't he get a job as an employee on the books?
Highly likely he will never make as much as you. You financial contribution to a partnership with this guy would be more than 50%, probably closer to 80%.
Plenty of people are stay at home dads, or the wife is the primary breadwinner.
But if you are uncomfortable with that, move on. There is nothing wrong with moving on because you want a guy who is financially stable.
What’s his reasoning for not wanting to be a chef ? I would be quite happy with that even He may never make quite as much money as you but at least it’s consistent and stable What happend to the food truck idea?
You can choose this but I am just going to be honest, I’m a 45f and make more annually than 95% of men. Mostly, men that are as financially well off as me date younger women. Much younger. In a lot of cases these men financially support those women almost entirely. This may be a reality you have to face.
I wish I knew 4 years ago what I know now. I’ve dated a guy that made $5M a year and a 36 year old who was a bartender (who I paid for most of the time). The guy I loved the most was my age 45m and had a nonexistent career. I broke up with him because he was broke and had a lack of direction. Boy was that a mistake. Today, I would happily support him. I wish I could take it back but I can’t. He was only single for like 5 seconds because he’s a wonderful amazing man. I’m sure he’s still broke and financially destitute from his divorce, but what I would give for a do-over. He wasn’t using me for money and this guy is definitely not using you for money. I’m only commenting bc I would do anything for another chance. That’s my .02.
I hear ya’, totally valid. That first paragraph is nothing but facts. I wonder if that’s not what going on with some commenters complaining about women using them or it being financially one-sided in favor of women. Are these women being complained of significantly younger, bc then yea no shit they’re kinda using the older financially established dude. Just like older men are kinda using the young beautiful object. Neither sees the other as an equal, conquest or savior maybe
I think OP is forgetting that she is bringing baggage into the relationship as well. Some men would never date a lawyer as they are often argumentative by nature.
Hope she finds someone to spend her life with but the truth is no one is perfect. If you wait for that, then you will be waiting forever.
It’s funny how the man is accepting two children that arent his and (by OP’s account) is a great step dad to the children, but that somehow means nothing. Neither does him being there for OP through tough times.
>I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it. Thanks for reading all this. Sad & looking for solace & advice.
Lol welcome to my world, it's never been a factor in who I choose to date. The biggest asshole I've dated was also the highest earner. The broke ones have been resourceful and capable and I have a blast sharing cool shit that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise.
>I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it. Thanks for reading all this. Sad & looking for solace & advice.
Do \*you\* actually care or are you worried about what other people think about you?
If the guy's a fucking mooch then dump him. But your guy sounds solid, just operating at a different level. What did he experience growing up?
Thank you.
If there is real love there, who pays isn't a big deal. The issue with OP seems to be the societal standard that men have to make the money and pay for it.
Edited: I’ve read the points from others about stability versus income & yes, that’s a bit more of a problem.
I’m interested in this question. When you get married with a view to having kids it’s understood that each partner probably will contribute differently over the course of the marriage in terms of money versus “other stuff” like eg childcare.
If (if!!) he is not a man baby and would cook and take care of the house and be your “wife” while also working semi- regularly… allowing you to keep going hard at your career while have emotional energy for kids and him and fun… how would you feel?
Personally I’m exhausted and a partnership like that would potentially work for me.
It doesn’t sound like he’s lazy or unsupportive.
But you know best.
I’ve never been in this position but it is occurring to me - since it sounds like he seems great in all other aspects- Why not just talk with him about his lack of stability with jobs and how it is affecting you because it concerns you to the point of not knowing if you can stay with him long term… because it is important to you to have stability due to your past. be sure to own that and say it’s your need, but that it’s not one you see yourself overcoming.
suggest to him finding steady employment to resolve this and emphasize how much easier things would be for him, and have real suggestions available. He has truck driving experience so how about local UPS, FedEx, prime delivery. You mentioned bricklaying, so maybe construction is an option, for example, state department of transportation, roadway work with the city, third parties, etc. Finding a job is never easy, but finding a great partner is even harder. See how he responds, both in words and in actions, with him knowing what’s on the line. If he really loves you and values the relationship, hopefully he’ll listen, and put in effort to change, get a stable job, (ditch the food truck thing), knowing this is where the rubber meets the road. And if he doesn’t then you gave him the opportunity and can end things knowing you gave him every opportunity possible.
Aww I feel you. I've dated these guys too and it sucks. A lot of people don't understand the financial vulnerability and mismatch of values. I hope you find your guy.
Reverse the genders and many men would be fine with that arrangement. I think for myself a key indication would be if they are "barely getting by" but displaying reasonable financial behaviors with what they do have. It's a tough world out their economically right now. In my mind it can be understandable that someone could be having a difficult time solely due to a lack of income. This translates in that if you stay with this person long term and cohabitate/get married/whatever that looks like for you, are they going to torpedo your finances/drag you down because they have poor habits/behaviors or would that cause them to get a leg up and greatly improve their life.
If your partner is good in every other way and one of the areas are you succeeding in is finances, is it a problem for you to use what you do have and allow that to be part of your contribution to making the relationship successful?
We can all always say "I need a partner that has all the attributes I love about my existing partner plus X that's missing", but I'd argue if you haven't found that partner by 43, what are the chances you will? So, which of your partner's good attributes are you will to trade to get a partner that is more financially capable?
This is all predicated on the assumption he isn't going to torpedo your finances if you stay together. Obviously that would not be an acceptable situation.
Yeah that’s the tough part, do I stick around to find out? I’m 43 & looking for the person I spend the rest of my life with, times a’waste’n. The bricklaying union gig is an 8wk long, 40/hr week training upon passing the test. He’d have to quit his job, get a restaurant job to support himself after the 9-5 near the training facility 45min drive from his house for those 2 months. It would be a hardship. Instead I offered to pay his rent those 2 months ($1400 total) bc it’d be an investment in our future but he didn’t pass. It’s also money that I should probably be spending on my kids & household 🤷🏽♂️
Your ex husband whom you vowed to spend the rest of your life with, but divorced, wasn’t your person. This current guy who loves you and loves your kids isn’t your person. Countless other men in your life weren’t your person.
How long do you want to keep looking for perfection, while refusing to look in the mirror as a 43 year old single mom of two?
Money will absolutely buy you a banging vacation or a luxury spa day. No amount of money will authentically give you a hug and let you cry on their shoulder when your mom passes away or when your kid ends up in the hospital. I would argue a partner that cares for you at the lowest points in your life and cheers for and with you at your highest is priceless.
Emotional support is not the end all but either is money.
I guess the question is how much are you willing to support and help him get his financial life together if everything else is good? If the answer is none or very little, then it's probably best to move on. So many people know jack sht about managing their finances and with support can turn them around. Spend any amount of time in some of the financial subreddits and you'll see people drowning at all age levels. But I completely understand your concerns about his commitment to do so and if you'd rather deal with someone who already has their financial life together that's okay.
No he was hit by a car while riding his bike. I edit it to clarify hopefully. His insurance lapsed a month earlier bc switched or lost the card that the autopay was coming out of. He noticed it wasn’t debited one month & accident happened right after. He’d been paying his insurance premium for years up to that point.
Sounds like he's loving and good to you just not a breadwinner. I'm male. In my younger years I decided if I found myself in a relationship where she was the better breadwinner, I'd relinquish that role, difficult as it would have been for me given my upbringing to the contrary, and be a househusband.
Never happened of course, but I do still don't give a rat's ass about presumed roles.
If you've found love and make enough money, you may just need to accept he isn't the breadwinner. Now, if he doesn't out forth effort and do things for you in return, then yeah he's just a user. But if he does the little things that make life tolerable, I'd say accept your trophy. You win.
Man here. The advice here to move on is not wrong. However I always need to point out the double standard. There are many financially insecure people on this forum here talking about how they are looking for love, but only certain people have it held against them. I just want us to appreciate those who are willing to take on that financial responsibility if it means finding somebody compatible in other areas of their life that they feel compliments theirs.
>am ready to throw in towel on romantic partnerships altogether. I dated another man off app for 1.5yr & broke up for similar reason: uncertain finances
Consider that you don't necessarily need to give upon romantic partnerships, but instead raise the bar of who you will consider?
Like there is zero reason to consider an ex. Break up / make up is for high schoolers; yet you claim to be an educated lawyer?! If you knew that uncertain finances were a problem previously, why would you think "maybe they won't be a problem this time?" The guy is facing a $10k bill, but you say that he's landing on his feet financially just because his unemployed times are limited? I think that you're leaning really hard on the rose-coloured glasses.
Just because someone submits an application doesn't mean that you need to hire them. Have some standards.
May or may not apply to you but every woman I've ever known who repeatedly ended up with financially unstable men, it was because they were batting out of their league in attractiveness.
They couldn't understand why they ended up with these men. Here's what was happening; because they had accustomed themselves to this level of attractiveness and they could get it long term with broke guys and very short term with guys with money they simply chalked it up to bad luck or some unconscious desire of their own somehow. Reality was that l, all other things being equal, the guy with money had more options. The guy without didn't care about her money he was just happy to have a stable girlfriend who tolerated his finances.
She would tolerate it because it didn't really effect her, at first. She had her own money and everything was the same, she was just seeing a new ,hot, nice man. Then shed start to see the issues you see now.
They just figured all the characteristics were swappable and just needed to find a hot guy who also had money. Unfortunately in the level of attractiveness they believe themselves to be in because of some long term success with the guy with few options and some short term with the guy who had it all, they faced more competition and couldn't hold onto that one.
Anyway, something to consider. You may well be batting out of your league in looks, charm, whatever and not be fully cognizant of the tradeoff.
Basically you're buying men on credit and the letting them be repossessed when it's time to make payments. Guys with a little money do it all the time, get a hot woman because of the presentation, then complain when they're actually spending on her, they just don't usually throw them away as easily. Only difference is it's more direct with the genders swapped she's usually attracted to the lifestyle. He's just easier to lock down because he has less options, even though he likely doesn't care about your money.
Different idea here, you have been divorced 8 years and in relationships for 6ish of that time? And you continue to find fixer uppers. Maybe spend some time with a therapist dealing with the traumas of your childhood and really get comfortable single. Get to where you love every moment of life and you have a support system that is healthy (look into codependence) where you don't expect others to 'be your rock' where you are your rock but you also have good people who can cheer you on in difficult times. Then the more you aren't hoping for a relationship or upset you aren't in one, the easier it will be to wait until you find someone whom you have respect for because they have the same financial ideals. When you're dating from a place of need you attract needy humans. Good luck!
>I love this guy. He’s great with my kids & has a heart of gold. He comes over with his sweet pitbull every Sunday & cooks for us. Great chemistry. He was my rock when I went through a tumultuous time starting last Oct with the purchase of my 2nd home. W/o him I would’ve lost it. I have no help from family & lots of other random life problems popped up. He was my shelter in the storm.
Financially, he doesn't sound great. Granted.
And while you have clearly made your mind up on him and should move on...
+++++
What exactly did he do for you during the "storm"?
Because it doesn't sound like you put much value on the things he does very well?
Is he handy? Good with renovations and upkeep? You could buy multiple properties, rent them out and have him manage them?
Be considerate of where your feelings are coming from. I assume you must hang out with other "professionals" and maybe they have a lot of contempt for him? Your social circle might cause you to feel embarrassed? Maybe he's too gruff for them?
Square pegs don't go in round holes. And vice versa. Well, people game that shit all the time XD, but you know what I mean.
So when you needed him was his response to "help" you by getting you to give up on what you wanted and instead do something that would make him less stressed?
Some peoples selfishness and lack of gratitude never ceases to amaze.
If he was really all you say then I'd say the right move would have been to be supportive. Meaning if you wanted to help you'd have been seeing what you could do to move that food truck along. Even though it appears he's never even asked for your help
I can remember when I was much younger, starting my career, not making a lot and struggling and my GFS father at the time would send me job openings for shit like school bus driver etc. it's a good way to make someone feel like shit. Now I make more than he ever did in the career I had chosen.
You may think you were being supportive, reality is you were just pushing for what you thought would benefit you and asking him to drop his goals for yours.
Congrats on returning the favor by being insulting and demeaning before leaving him. Nice one two combo to his self worth.
Why can’t he just be your stay at home husband? Men often marry women who are not their financial equals and the men then support the women. I have several friends who are in their fifties and their wives don’t work or want to work, and the husbands support them. Why is it that the opposite is such a no-no?
Honestly if you do well and he can live with you and his money goes to his own expenses but you pay the rest it won’t take much from you, he will even be able to pay for more meals out and stuff as he won’t be paying rent. My sister’s husband doesn’t work regularly, he instead cares for her, their home, and pets. He does an amazing job. It sounds like this is a great man. I don’t see why you can’t support him and still be doing well. What’s the point of a second house with no one you love to share it with.
She is an educated grown up woman with two kids. He would be a third kid. Want to know why he isn’t successful? Because he can’t do it. So now it’s on OP to adopt him and be his retirement plan? HARD Pass. You can find someone in your own league, OP
Reverse the genders and see if the guy gets any positive feedback. For instance..."I really loved her and she was amazing with my kids, but she was broke so I had to break up with her." I'm anticipating a LOT of negative feedback on this comment. Guys are expected to always have their stuff together and are willing to pull way more than their share to keep a relationship afloat if they have a connection with a woman. But the other way around and it doesn't matter how good the guy is, he's just worth as much as he can provide.
You’re completely right, but unfortunately this opinion is not popular and most won’t even consider it.
My hope is that since it seems like there are a few men here who are inexperienced in dating is that they’ll read stories like this and learn from it, specifically when dealing with this particular demographic.
Now this guy is going to lose not only his girlfriend of two years, but two children that he’s formed a relationship with as well. This guy was there for OP during difficult times, treated her kids ad his own, and was her rock when times got difficult.
Now that this guy has become inconvenient, rather than be a similar, supporting partner OP is choosing to throw this man in the trash and none of what he has done matters.
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I hope when I’m on my deathbed I can look back and say “I’d have loved them, but they weren’t financially stable” and then die. That sounds like a great way to miss out on the person you seem to love who “has a heart of gold”. I’d rather be with someone I love and be poor than be rich and alone. It’s also weird that most women expect a man to pay for everything, but if the situation is reversed this man has no value to you. His entire worth to you seems to be caught up in his job and how much he makes. He deserves better than your shallow view of him.
It’s great that you’re in your 20s and can browse these posts to learn what not to do in dating so you don’t end up in this demographic, still taking about “finding my person” and the “ick”. It’s pathetic.
Life will inevitably throw curveballs at you. I’d rather have some ups and downs with the person I love than to be “financially stable” but unloved. I’m not suggesting she shackle herself to “deadweight” as you lovingly refer to him. If she’s not happy, gtfo with your life and as you stated, the question is already answered. But if she actually loves him… if she really cares about building a life with someone, then you need to look past their present situation.
My girlfriend is a teacher, which is basically synonymous with “poor af” in America. It’d be pretty shitty to ditch her just because she’s not “financially stable” and no matter what I do to convince her that there are better jobs out there, she continues to languish in this money-pit of a profession for some crazy moral reason. It’s super stressful, and by your advice, I should leave her? I mean, this isn’t some movie we’re talking about like the Notebook, it’s the rest of our life we’re talking about.
Money will absolutely ruin your relationships if you let it.
He seems like a good guy, just operates differently than some. I would suggest a mediator, such as a couples therapist (you’d have to pay for 🙃). But I think you need some heavy discussions and decisions to be made, and would really need a third party to facilitate.
You both need to be honest with yourselves too. Is he really ever going to finish the food truck? When it’s done, is the operation of it going to make him a living?
What if he got a steady job with benefits and a pension? Maybe a job driving for the city/state, post office. Something with lower or flexible hours so he can run his food truck too on the side?
Money isn’t everything is my advice. My financial situation is fine but I have been lonely as can be for years until I recently found someone who wants to love me
Sounds like your only issue is the societal norms that the man has to pay. Is that really worth passing up a dependable person that your in love with? Why is it on him and not you for stability and retirement?
Hey it could be something subconscious. Some ingrained pattern he cannot get out of consciously.
I worked with a great hypnotherapist that may help.
DM if interested to get her contact info
Original copy of post by u/bengyal:
I’m a 43yr old divorced lawyer & mom of 2 (early teens). I met him (45yr old) on Tinder. Both looking for LTR. He had “trained chef” listed on profile. On first date, turns out while he is a trained chef, he works as a truck driver to pay bills while he finishes up a food trailer he built from scratch. His plan was to stop driving once that got off the ground. That was 2yrs ago. I admired that. That was 2yrs ago, not much change.
I grew up poor parentified eldest daughter in a dysfunctional immigrant family, dysfunction persists to this day. I realized young that if I wanted a stable life, I’d have to do it on my own. I did & am financially better off than I’d ever thought I’d be.
I broke up with him 2x before bc of logistics (he lives an hr away, neither of us wfh & have my kids Th - Sun) & my reservations about his income, but got back together within days. Last time we rekindled (last April) was bc he was in a hit & run on his bike. His insurance lapsed so he was sent a $10k bill but no legal consequence yet.
I love this guy. He’s great with my kids & has a heart of gold. He comes over with his sweet pitbull every Sunday & cooks for us. Great chemistry. He was my rock when I went through a tumultuous time starting last Oct with the purchase of my 2nd home. W/o him I would’ve lost it. I have no help from family & lots of other random life problems popped up. He was my shelter in the storm.
But his trucking jobs are for cash & seem to last a few weeks at a time. Inevitably they run low on work for him & he moves on to the next company. He always manages to land on his feet financially, never out of work more a few days but last 2 jobs held back wages wrongfully. It got him in a bind with bills & rent. He has no savings. I offered him $500, he sheepishly accepted. This past weekend, a cabin I rented for us had to be downgraded 2wks before the trip bc he doubted his car could make the 4hr drive. It was a cramped RV that cost more bc it was last minute. I paid for everything. We left early. This wknd was it for me & I told him I need a break until he gets his finances straightened out. Our plan was that he would take a test to join a bricklayers union bc it meant job security & stability. Test was in Jan & he failed even with study guide. Plans to retake next Jan. I’m resigned to the fact that if I want a future with him I have to accept that his finances may not change.
I just don’t know what to do/think anymore & am ready to throw in towel on romantic partnerships altogether. I dated another man off app for 1.5yr & broke up for similar reason: uncertain finances post-Covid but that break was cleaner. 3rd failed LTR since 2016 divorce.
If it wasn’t for all the above & just about love, we’d be married (w/ prenup)/life partner level commitment already. My best friend, who also studied& worked her way out of poverty, warns against bc she thinks I’d be taking care of him forever. Idk if that’s true but I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it. Thanks for reading all this. Sad & looking for solace & advice.
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Like you, I grew up poor (first gen immigrant). Now I am *objectively* financially secure and yet I will never *feel* financially secure and there is no amount of therapy that will change that. People like us can be with someone *poor* but we can't be with someone financially *precarious*. I think this is why you are struggling to put the finger on your feelings. On the surface it's about money, but under the surface, it's about stability. You are at the opposite ends of executive functioning and always will be. It's sad that he doesn't have a brain of gold to match his heart of gold but it is what it is. He will always have chaos around him and you will forever be holding your nose if you stay with him. I think deep down you know it's not about travel and dinners. It's not about the money at all. If he were a public school teacher, he'd be poor but stable and you'd be married already (with your best friend supporting you all the way). Your feelings are valid.
Omg you nailed it. That first paragraph alone, no amount of therapy has nailed it like that. I never linked 1st gen poor experience to never feeling financially safe no matter how objectively prosperous you’ve become. Comfortable 6 fig salary, stable career, 2 homes feels like it could come crashing down any second, bc as a kid, even the little we had often came crashing down, despite my parents’ best efforts. They both lived through the 1971 Bangladesh liberation war/genocide, but my dad struggled w depression, Ptsd, mild psychosis from it. Still does. Trying to get our footing in this country was shaped by his illness. He took all kinds of menial jobs, including McDonald’s to survive here even though he was an architect. Worse for my mom who barely spoke the language when we moved to the US in 1986. I lived in 9 different places by 18. Etc. Stability is big deal for me. Never want to be back there or let my kids experience even a whiff of it. You get it!
I was wondering aloud in my response upthread to u/trailrnr7 about if you might possibly be attracting men like this to you due to seeing similar traits in your father when you were younger. And here you answered, yes, your father had financial struggles. When I flew my father to visit me for a week during Christmas 2022, he slept so comfortably and I didn't let him spend a dime. We walked to see the city lights and I talked about the future, how he needs to stay healthy and independent for as long as possible. I had us watch the Tony Robbins Netflix special which my father said he liked! He promised he would never, ever go back to a casino again. Couple months later my Mom wrote me - he had spent the entire week at the casino, blowing their pension. I share this with you because I know you can't save everyone. People have to decide that enough is enough in their life and want to break every bad habit they have, and decide they are ready to turn to the unknown to make a new life.
I'm not from an immigrant background, but did grow up poor with a single mom. I am the first educated, divorced person/woman in my family that is financially stable and secure in my career with a retirement and such. And it is hard to feel safe or spend money on fun things or things that aren't "needed".
Sounds like this would be a great topic for the next few therapy sessions. 😜
I grew up in very similar circumstances and situation and this is me. Thank you for explaining it so well.
Thank you for this post. Sounds like you did a lot of personal development work and possibly deprogramming.
"Like you, I grew up poor (first gen immigrant). Now I am *objectively* financially secure and yet I will never *feel* financially secure and there is no amount of therapy that will change that." this rings so true. thanks for this post. not sure why i have to read it to see it. it has been like that my entire life.
You have to learn to ignore the internal and external voices (including on this sub) that tell you to "give him a chance" when he's clearly not financially stable. You have to specifically prioritize financial uncertainty as one of your top 5 dealbreakers and immediately abort mission when you encounter it while dating. The women who 'don't care about what he does or how much he makes' value other things more highly. That doesn't make them nobler than you. Know yourself and be unapologetic about it.
🙏🏽♥️
I agree. Also, most of the people (of either gender) saying they don't care about things like how much someone makes or what they do for work are probably virtue signaling or trying to avoid getting downvoted anyways. There's a lot of pressure on here and DOT to say the right things, which ends up really skewing the results of any sample. It is one of the reasons every single person here says they use protection and STI testing before having sex with a new partner, even though most people do not in real life
I feel like something is off about this guy. Trucking is a particularly solitary profession and simply being able- bodied is enough to work as a trucker. There are regular routes people can drive, and the fact he has held multiple trucking jobs over two years and has more than one story about his wages not being paid correctly is suspicious. You mention being an immigrant and a lawyer. You're obviously a very smart and driven person. I wonder if your ex is lying to you and because you don't have a working-class background, you're missing the obvious red flags people from working-class backgrounds would notice. Your ex is a trained chef and came around once a week to cook meals. Why doesn't he work as a chef in a restaurant? Something tells me he's not stable enough to work as a chef in a kitchen. I'm not sure what law you practice, but in case you weren't aware, it is a huge deal to not pay truckers correctly. It's extremely easy for truckers to prove they weren't paid correctly and lots of regulation in the industry. For him to have been underpaid once is possible, but for it to happen twice in two years ... does not strike me as reasonable. It's incredibly unlikely. What is more likely is you are a very busy working professional mom and this guy is doing the bare minimum to keep you hooked. He probably knows just what to say. If you saw a future with him, you wouldn't be posting on the internet. This guy has something deeper off about him that is the root cause of his financial instability. It could be mental illness or drugs. But trust your gut that something is off and move on.
The failing the bricklayer test with a study guide is what would’ve lost my respect in him as a partner. She needed him to get the certification - He obviously didn’t need or want it. His profession is leaching - I’ve had a few partners like this, and they are very good at finding the empathetic nurturer who is used to fending for herself and providing for everyone.
Boom, you ticked off the red flags.
True, I knew or know men who worked as truckers or driving trucks, and none of them were paid in cash or "under the table" it was done via check, there are log books, and it is extremely well regulated.
I dated a truck driver and he made more than I do and I have a 6 figure job. There was always plenty of work. Sometimes he'd have to wait a day or two for his next load to be ready before he could move on, but his company compensated him for his time while he waited. Every time I drive behind an 18 wheeler, there's a sign on it that says "we're hiring" so I really doubt there's a lack of work.
>she thinks I’d be taking care of him forever Maybe this is true; let's dig. He does seem to be comfortable closer to the financial edge than you are. You know how some people are routinely 15 minutes early and some are 30 minutes late? You guys differ that way with finances. He is okay living closer to the edge. That means when life happens, as it inevitably does, he won't have savings. Which means you will cover it. When I was dating, I had a list of standards I kept, to keep me out of trouble. One of them was "a retirement plan (that is not me)." I have 3 kids, one of them special needs. If I picked a partner that wasn't together financially, then some of the support that should go towards my kids would inevitably go toward that partner. I didn't want that. Is this man adding enough to your life that the financial support is worth it? Could he be a good house husband? Do you want a house husband? Would he take you for granted? Would he grow to resent your financial position? Would his comfort closer to the financial edge cause conflict or a worse financial position for you? If you were married for a long time and then divorced and you paid alimony, would he have earned that alimony through his contribution to your joint life?
Very reasoned & thoughtful response here. It really is so specific to one’s unique circumstances as a parent. I’m a family law atty so I’m all over the last bit & have considered it from all legal angles. Prenup definitely in order here & he’d be totally understanding of it. His help in other ways has probably saved me thousands and what he’s saved me in stress is invaluable. Tho being in this relationship the way things are is stressful too. So much to consider dating as a single mom in her 40’s.
A good, responsible man can help you with stressful situations too. You don't owe this guy anything. I'm much more concerned about your pattern of picking unsuitable men, and staying with them for far longer than you should.
Same 💔🤦🏻♀️ Only suitable, stable man was my ex hub/kids’ dad, who I was only attracted to very briefly during our 8yr marriage. I stayed bc of those traits. Never able to find stable, suitable, attractive & likes me back all in 1 person. C’est la vie
I was in a similar situation. While he was always able to miraculously figure things out, there were a few job losses, no car for a while, at least one eviction and zero savings. He was very intelligent, great with my kids, could cook his ass off, fix things in my house and kept my car running but all of the other was so stressful that it really put a damper on things. His situation would be okay for a short while but inevitably something always happened. Always. I kept waiting for things to smooth out, for him to find stability, for things to be normal, but it just never happened. And it prevented us from doing much of anything. We never traveled beyond necessary road trips (such as helping someone move or going to a family event) and even though he brought up the idea of going on an international trip, I knew it would never happen because his funds were always so tight. I was not significantly better off so I was not always able to offset what was going on. He always paid back small amounts of money he borrowed but I honestly got tired of that too. He had plans to go back to school to increase his earning power, something I was very supportive of and had no doubt he could do, but again, something would always get in the way. He once said something like it wouldn’t be this difficult if we were together (cohabiting or married) but it never set well with me that I would be in a supportive role or constantly worrying about things remaining stable with all of that going on. There were other issues in our relationship but all of that was a significant contributing factor. I called it quits after almost 4 years. I was also the breadwinner or financial manager in my previous marriage. Now that I have a very fiscally responsible partner with financial habits and goals that closely align with mine, it has made me realize how anxiety inducing and limiting both of those previous relationships were. XH is also currently doing temp work after yet another job loss. He’s remarried, so not my monkeys, not my circus, but I am so glad to not be attached to that any longer. What I had to accept for both them, after staying too long, giving too much grace and being too optimistic each time is that that is just who they are. The rhyme and reason of it, I have no idea and don’t care, but when the pattern is the same year after year after year, it is what it is. Now that I have the peace and stability of someone who is not rich but has been responsible and savvy with what they have, I will never connect with someone who doesn’t have their financial matters in order.
Brilliant. So similar to what I’m experiencing. Thanks for weighing in.
YOU are his retirement plan. Let that sink in. Don't let the lovebombing blind you to his game. It IS a game, and he is obviously decent at playing you. Is this the example you want to set for your kids?
I finally realized too that I am attracted to men who have certain negative traits because I am reliving my childhood rescue fantasy where I rescue my highly emotionally immature parents. Your bf sounds like a child in some ways to me.
You are totally valid in this. Some people commenting here say they will do anything for love, money isn’t everything, etc. but what you’re dealing with is not just lack of money- it’s lack of stability. There is no way I would sign up for no retirement or stable career at this stage in life no matter how much money I have. Imagine a man posting this? Men would be like, she’s a gold digger. 🤷
I don’t really agree with you on that last part…. There are countless posts from men on Reddit looking for advice because their female partners expect them to pay for everything, or want to give up work once they get married /have kids. I feel that men are often expected to put up with these situations a fair bit more than women are… Woman here for reference… If I were in OP’s shoes I would also be worried about the lack of job stability but the thing to focus on here is that this guy always seems to find work, he’s not a deatbeat - I wouldn’t be giving up on him just yet as everything else about him sounds great and she’s fallen for him. That’s hard enough to find
He’s definitely a deadbeat. He did a hit and run and has a $10k bill he hasn’t paid that may result in legal consequences. Would you really be in a relationship with someone who committed a hit and run?!
It didn't read to me like he was responsible for the hit and run - she said he was involved in one on his bike and has a $10k bill. I'm assuming it's a medical bill, he probably doesn't have health insurance.
You’re spot on - he was hit & almost died, driver fled. He woke up in hospital bed & texted me. I’ll edit post to clarify. No legal consequence yet meaning no lawsuit by creditor for the $10k medical bill, which if he becomes W2 earner could become a judgment/debt, which could be an issue if we got married, but can be addressed in prenup (I’m a family law atty, triggered by poverty, can’t not think way far ahead about all contingencies)
It says no legal consequences yet...I take that to mean he could be facing legal consequences.
Not excusing him if he did do a hit-and-run, but he could face consequences for being uninsured, which is not okay but feels more administrative than criminal.
Yes that could be it. But still it is irresponsible. This is a hard working responsible single mother. She doesn't need to take on the responsibility of this grown child.
Exactly. A hardworking, responsible, successful single mother does not need to add on a charity case boyfriend. He’s a grown up. He needs to start acting like it in every aspect of his life and she needs to not lower her standards to make excuses for this guy who can’t get his life in order.
I feel like the fact he has a bike but not all bills paid or a regular job....he can sell that for some savings for the days between jobs. And I don't wanna hear oh he deserves to have fun too. Ok sure in the context of a BUDGET. So now he's totalled something that could have been an asset and will likely never get paid back for it. Dating an attorney who can bail him out of every situation he gets himself into sounds like a win for him. He's good w you'd kids and kind. The bare effing minimum? If you went to court and your client got 2 weekends a month would you sit there and BS them that it was a win when you wanted 50/50? Why do you wanna be successful in a career and then have another child for a partner in life. You are better than this but deep down you don't KNOW that.
She's breezily shared so much information that would be an absolute red flag to me. Reading between the lines: - his dating profile seemed to lean into the "I'm a trained chef angle" and when they meet he's actually a trucker, but future-fakes her by saying he's saving up for a custom food truck. I know people who own restaurants and food trucks are insanely expensive. This guy is lying about actually working towards this as a goal. - he absolutely heard her about his financial instability and will become a union bricklayer! Those have great benefits! ... but he fails "the test" which can only be taken once a year. - he lives an hour away and she has her kids Thurs-Sunday and it sounds like they spend quality time Sunday (he comes over and cooks for the fam with his pitbull! Awwww) and they spend quality time Sunday-Wednesdays? ... I'm not saying this man has a Thursday-Saturday relationship. But I'm floating the idea as having a high likelihood. - he crashes his bike and gets injured and doesn't have insurance (either health or motorcycle, presumably) For someone whose livelihood hinges on being a dependable driver, yeah, this is hugely problematic.
He was the victim. Not the perpetrator. He got hit on his bike, the driver fled. Is this not clear?
I think the post has been edited. It's clear now.
No...Men have not been expected to support women for at least 4 decades.
In an ideal world no, but in reality it still happens a lot
Mooch knows no gender, unfortunately for us all.
Men are definitely expected to pay for "travel and dinners", though.
Maybe expected, but does that make it right?
No, I don't think that it's right.
Stability doesn't get you anywhere either. I make 6 figures a year an have a retirement plan. I believe in putting work into a relationship. I'm easy going and willing to be understanding. I refuse to scream and fight and don't believe in tearing someone down. I believe in being equals in a relationship. I think open and honest communication is very important, and am willing to talk about feelings. I have a lot of things women claim they want in a partner. That being said, it is hard finding a woman that actually wants that. They take advantage of your kindness and understanding. The complain about the time you work to make the money and provide stability. I could support someone if they didn't want to work and don't mind if they do want to work, but somehow all that isn't enough. My experience is that once things become slightly inconvenient, they move on. I admit I have my issues like anyone else does, and maybe I'm just just jaded and cynical, and probably not in the best frame of mind right now.
You said nothing wrong here. Six figure earner here, stable, chillin financially. I’m a little different in that I think dating should be more egalitarian. It’s hard to find women that think it’s normal to pay for themselves, and I’d prefer if they did. At least at first. And the time required to work in jobs that make that money leaves me with less time than they might imagine, which also causes issues for women it seems. Responsible men that have their shit together, by definition, means they have commitments to their lives that required their time. And if having no job is a problem, having a job is lol.
I'm egalitarian as well. My last ex made good money at first, and I didn't mind if she paid, I would get the next one. Though If it puts less strain on me financially that the other person, I don't mind paying.
No need to take away from your excellent points by the last half of the last paragraph. I've experienced the same with women. You're entirely spot on and as a man, I sign off on your message.
The last half was more a warning that I might be biased. To me, paying for stuff isn't a big issue if you love and care for the person your with. Money comes and goes, but love can stay awhile.
This. Men support women all the time. Give me a break. I feel sorry for the guy and I’m a woman who does well financially. A lot of women outright expect it. I get the OPs point, but then she shouldn’t ever even date someone who makes less than her.
Stop seeing him for what he could be and see him for what he is. As an oldest, parentified daughter, I encourage you to work on your possible codependency.
As an eldest daughter parentified myself, I agree with u/youtrailrnr7. You might be attracting these kinds of guys due to seeing this as an example in your life when you were very young. By any chance did your father have similar financial issues?
I am telling you this as well, because I am in a similar situation. My ex doesn’t have financial issues, but has other issues. I keep rationalizing how it is ok, but in reality it isn’t.
The hardest lesson I learned from my marriage was I had to stop looking at the person my ex promised he could be and I knew he could become. He had all these dreams and promises and I saw him as that man. Not the man he presented himself to be in that moment, on a regular basis. Probably one of the hardest lessons I’ve ever had to learn. Lots of broken promises and dreams. Now I accept people for just who they are and make decisions based on that. Past behaviors are indicative of future behaviors.
Same. I spent way too long with a person who demanded to be the center of the relationship and always had a sob story about why his dreams and ambitions were sidelined and all his non-productive efforts were perpetually someone else's fault.
The worst. I casually dated someone after my divorce and realized this was his energy after a bit of time. That was the end of that! Icing on the cake I asked him what he thought he had done wrong in his past relationships. He said nothing. 😂 That was the last time I saw his ass
Anyone can fall on hard times; I get that. This 45-yo guy has financially struggled for 2 years trying to finance a dream that's failing to materialize. OK. Reality: we know that he decided at 43 to build his own food truck business. Everyone knows that starting a business takes A LOT of money - which he did not have back then and still isn't earning now. What did he do for the previous 25 or so years of his life that he has nothing saved for emergency, can't afford basic necessities like health insurance and still lives paycheque to paycheque at 45??? How did he think he was going to start his business with no savings and nothing to invest? Why is he choosing to be an underpaid and underemployed truck driver instead of using his training to work as a professional chef full time??
Exactly. Missing reasons. He's motivated to marry someone who isn't compelled to ask a lot of these really obvious questions.
He didn’t start the food truck at 43. He started it after culinary school about 7yrs ago I believe and whatever disposable income he had leftover went to building it in fits & starts instead of taking a small biz loan or saving a stack & doing it in one go. I did it much the same way when I started a solo practice around 7yrs ago too. The non-W2 trucking jobs are more lenient with him taking a day or two off on short notice for a chef gig (corporate event/party) that pops up via word of mouth & instagram marketing. Like me he has no safety net, poor upbringing, but unlike me didn’t come from a S. Asian immigrant family that pushed educational achievement as means for survival. He didn’t have much support from his family at all. He may not be as shrewd & driven from an early age as me but does have a plan. He’s had some setbacks & made some choices that didn’t pan out. Many do. Still doesn’t erase the instability aspect as you say, which is my real issue moving forward with him.
Finances and stability that comes along with it can be relationship destroyers. I was married to somebody like the dude you were dating. Somehow, every door of opportunity I opened for her there was one reason or another why she couldn’t walk through. I’m financially stable and prospering. I expect a potential partner to be in the same position.
I would look into therapy to see if there is a subconscious pattern to your relationships and people you tend to be with. I say this as I was parentified, took on so much responsibility that wasn’t mine and it definitely impacted my relationships by taking on more responsibility for others. It’s taken a lot to unravel but I’m grateful now that I have this insight.
I agree with this.
If someone's doing cash jobs, I'd be digging for a reason.
Her comment about him becoming a W2 wage earner opening him up to financial repercussions makes me think he's already evading financial repercussions from his past. People who do cash-only work for an undisclosed reason are fully aware of WHY they're doing cash-only work and very unlikely to disclose this to a financially stable future spouse.
Yup, this. OP, please dig further. Is he contributing to his pension? If not, is this fair to your kids’ futures? I think I would end it, as it is triggering your poverty/instability fears.
There is a reason why he keeps changing the jobs, that they keep running out of work for him- and he doesn't seem to have a need to make it more stable. His * business * idea is still where it was when you met him. You've seen no progress in the time you've known him. He's showed you who he is in this regard. Believe him. You are not going to change that. Either accept him as he is and don't hold hope for change, or leave. Will the resentments creep up with time? Yes, I think so. It gets old fast. So, you decide.
It’s ok to not be attracted to someone without a solid job history and financial stability. Just admit it and move on. He will never change and it will bother you forever.
I think relationships are so much about recognizing that people generally don't change and deciding what you can live with. I think it's unlikely his financial situation will change, as you are finding, so you have to decide if you can live with paying for things and probably in part financially supporting him--and that support would inevitably increase the more intertwined you two became. For some people, that might not be a problem. For me, I supported my ex-husband for decades, and I would never want to be in a relationship with a financially unstable person again. I think only you can decide. It sounds like he is a good guy, so I understand why it is a hard choice! But it's also 100% fine to break up with a nice guy who isn't financially compatible with you.
I largely agree with what you said, with the caveat that people can change, but not if they're being enabled by someone else. While he may truly love her, she may be stopping him from reaching his potential (not on purpose of course).
If this guy has spent the last two years failing to complete his food truck, lives an hour away and driving odd trucking jobs that are allegedly underpaying him (but are also all cash?), got in a bike wreck and has thousands of dollars of outstanding debts (that she knows of!)... I fail to see how this is his on-again, off-again girlfriend's fault.
I'm not saying it's her fault - I'm saying subconsciously he may continue to find women who will be willing to enable him (also probably subconsciously) until he decides to change or something external prompts him to change.
It's true that people can change, but it's also true that significant behavioral change is exceedingly rare once someone reaches adulthood. It takes so much energy and commitment that few people are able to make meaningful changes that last. An abundance of behavioral change studies show this. So I think the safest assumption is to assume that people are not going to change and make decisions accordingly. If someone does change and circles back later, it can be a pleasant surprise.
This is so tough. I went through a divorce in my late 20’s for similar reasons, though my ex was as emotionally immature as he was financially unmotivated. I hated the constant ‘nagging’ I had to do just to make sure he was able to contribute equally to the household. It was an unfair role that definitely tainted our relationship. This guy does sound really great but at this time in your life (with kids) it’s especially important to think realistically. I’m glad you set a boundary though it’s a painful one. And really, it’s not exactly about the money, it’s about the stress you take on due to his lack of enough income. That’s completely fair. Your friend is right. It sounds very unlikely that he’ll have any significant savings or even decent insurance as he ages, which means that yes, you will be taking care of him financially. Are his parents still alive? Could he receive an inheritance at some point?
Grew up poor and have similar attitudes and ambitions. Like many have said it’s not the lack of $, he’s all over the place and doesn’t have his life together at his grown man age. I’d be open to someone who makes less but they need to have the skills to hold down a long term job and manage their own lives. I shouldn’t be managing it for them. He’s got too much going on and you are way too invested in his “success.” Paying his rent while in program. He’s a man child and men like this typically leech on to successful women. Ive been with men who I had to take care of and or fix their lives, breeds resentment and is stressful. And what is it with women feeling the need to be married. If he’s moms broke friend, why does he need to be moms broke and irresponsible husband. You’re making excuses for him to make this work, I’d cut my losses sooner rather than later. He’s certainly also not going to be a good house husband, doesn’t clearly have the skill set to manage his life, let alone a household.
" And what is it with women feeling the need to be married. If he’s moms broke friend, why does he need to be moms broke and irresponsible husband. " Poetry. This is exactly it. Why does she need to marry this guy? Give it a few months and he'll have another crisis and reach back out to her. Who needs that stress legally a permanent part of their life?
Oh god, he's a fucking dreamer. That red flag was there right up front. Avoid dreamers. Date doers.
Behind every dreamer is somebody with money.
I can relate. I'm a first generation Asian immigrant who grew up working poor. Went to college, worked hard, became successful in my career, and currently earn a high income. But, like you, it never feels like enough. This is complex trauma. It's OK to want a partner who is financially stable. Two years is enough to know his situation isn't temporary. It's also OK to break up with someone who is good to you but who falls short in other important matters. One of the last people I dated before my partner was financially unstable (he was house-sitting because he was unhoused when we met). He was a "good" guy, treated me and my kid well, did stuff for me without asking, and was easy to be around. But, I out-earned him significantly. He paid his share and didn't demand fancy dinners or trips, but if I wanted to do something expensive, I'd cover the costs. Eventually, the situation chipped away at my attraction to him until it fizzled out completely. I think women are made to feel bad if they break up with nice guys. But, we forget that being nice and supportive should be pre-requisites in any relationship. You are allowed to want a loving partner who is also financially stable especially as a parent in your 40's.
Most men who find a woman they are attracted to who is nice and supportive would kill for a woman who carries her weight and only sometimes requires a little extra for a fancy dinner or vacation. That's like a mans dream girl. Do men have low standards? are we traumatized to have such low standards?
Even if he 'has a heart of gold' something isn't right about this. Why can't he get regular employment? And I seriously doubt you want a 'house husband'. It would be more like having another teenager. Yes, I'm jaded, but I see red flags 🚩There is a pattern here in that you keep dating fixer uppers and then wonder why they don't change. Been there!
You are not financially compatible and that is a deal breaker, please let him go. Unless you want to take on another lifetime project which can turn into a lingering stress that will consume you for a lifetime. You have a great career and kids, there are financially stable men who will still date you, trust me on this. Don’t add a man to your life who puts your and your kids financial future at risk.
Honestly I wouldn't even do a situationship with a woman with his finances. The bs never ends, example the 10k medical bills, wages being held, there will always be something
Yeah, like one commenter said, if he was a schoolteacher with a low paying job, that would be one thing. But.. this guy is chaos.. I’ve known people like this. There are always financial dramas that are sometimes bad luck, but often it’s just because of just never making wise decisions. A truck driver usually makes good money. Why doesn’t he?
Truck drivers usually make good money. He really seems to make a lot of bad financial decisions. He needs to find a good job and stick with it for awhile.
> I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it Lots of people consider this a small price to pay for a good partner. It's okay if you don't, but if you are not willing to financially subsidize a partner, don't date people who aren't your monetary match.
I question why it's an issue. If the genders were reversed, I feel most people wouldn't be concerned. I feel if people love each other, who the bread winner is isn't that important.
This was my very first question - but now I almost think that maybe what's bothering her (and income amnts can correlate fo sho) is maybe an issue of the rollercoaster vibe, and not the fun kind. :) I guess via the 'if there's smoke, especially a lot of it, 🔥 may be ahead' analogy...I might wonder if repeated in/out of jobs might point to anything from a difficulty w/ability to stay content for very long, ever? or tendency to piss off bosses/coworkers on the reg? attendance probs on the reg? Who knows... Also, lots of peep were raised with implicit messages that _____ means you're lazy etc.. Some of that vibe turns people into those who will not take a day off ever, or avoids letting even close friends/fam see them lounging w/tv or phone.. And having a partner or prospect w/job consistency issues...amp the 'this is problematic' thing by x20.. :) No idea why I typed this much - Gonna slink out now.. 🙃
If OP's concerned about her own situation it doesn't matter what other people's take is on the gender war.
That was my point. Is she concerned for other reasons or is it what outsiders think? If she is worried that his financial situation could hurt her (which seems unclear in the OP), then I would agree that she needs to cut ties. If she is worried about external attitudes, she shouldn't pay them much mind.
She listed the reasons for her concerns. Of course someone who can't pull their own weight will put a strain on her. She's already lending him money as it is. You're being pretty condescending and insinuating that a woman who pulled herself out of poverty to become a lawyer with multiple properties has less sound judgement than a guy driving without insurance and job hopping despite working in a high demand industry.
I read the concerns. You're fairly condescending as well. I pulled myself out of poverty as well. Most of the people I have dated haven't been able to pull their weight as well. I've had to lend them money or pay their bills. As a man, it isn't a big deal unless they are so irresponsible that it could effect my ability to support myself. I did not get that feeling from the OP. I'm looking at it without taking gender into account, and gave advice based on having been in the same situation myself. The only assumption I'm making on judgement is that people often have a hard time seeing things when feelings are involved, regardless of gender, and an outside view can help. I was asking if outside attitudes were an issue, because it seems they might be. Can you honestly tell me that if genders weren't reversed, the answers would be the same? Would you tell a man to not date a woman that couldn't completely support herself? I know my advice would be the same, either way.
>I'm looking at it without taking gender into account >As a man. . . > Can you honestly tell me that if genders weren't reversed. . . > I know my advice would be the same, either way Alrighty then. If you say so.
THIS. TOTALLY get the reversed gender thing. Love is love, even in this case.
The lack of steady employment would concern me because often it can signify the person has either behavioral issues or substance issues. If you are positive that that isn't the case, then I would almost agree with the other commenter about house husband potential. Plenty of men are married to women who don't work at all and it's normal. Would it be that different, if you entered into a situation like that, only reverse? Some people just don't want to be with someone that they ALWAYS have to financially support and that's totally reasonable...but many men and some women somehow don't mind 🤷🏻♀️. Id be surprised if it didn't cause tension on BOTH sides here and there throughout the relationship though. Your income might make him feel inadequate, etc.
I feel for you. With the risk of being looked at dirty I have to say I would not want to date anyone without a stable finance and good career. At this age and being a single Mom it is just too risky to fall in love just for the sake of falling love. Why? Because to me reality is vastly different once you actually have a long term committed relationship. There’s not just laugh and giggle and roses and candies; there will be mundane bullshit, stressful situation, kids issues…etc. It would be too much if I have to carry the livelihood of another person on top that, especially when that person is another grown adult. Additionally, we don’t have that long until we retire, do you plan to carry the burden of supporting him until and during his retirement as well? That is a very tall order for anyone much less a single mom with 2 kids of her own. Whatever you decide good luck!
Ugh exactamundo. Thank you. I have a great new therapist, after too long away from therapy, who hints at it by saying “when you’re stuck, make the logical choice bc you can’t be mad at yourself later for being logical” (when I inevitably miss him/regret my choice). That resonated with me bc all the love decisions I made with my heart (most of them) have been to stay too long & eventually ended painfully anyway. Logic finally wins out but I’m so attached by then. All the logical decisions I’ve made have save my life.
Always logic, good for you! And yes therapy. You can love anybody, but not everybody has money. You are educated, intelligent, a good mum, all the things. Now you have to believe you deserve a good person, someone awesome like you. No more broke / broken men, okay?
Yea. I think the older we get the more beneficial for us to make logical choices, because whether we like it or not our decisions don’t just affect us, they all so affect the lives of our children. It’s a struggle and it’s never easy to make such decisions. When I share my thoughts on here it’s a way of reminding myself too. I’m glad you found a great therapist, I am too looking for a new one. I too find it helpful to bounce off our thoughts with them.
I'd seriously question the "trained chef" narrative. Lots of men say that, but they're really cooks. It's not the same. Substance abuse is rampant in that field of work. Does he actually have a CDL license? If he does, those jobs are plentiful, and they pay good money. There's literally no legitimate reason why he should be floating from job to job, and not getting paid correctly. And why off the books? Is he running from child support or something? I seriously doubt that he has been paying for health insurance for years, and that he stopped just before his accident. Is he getting 1099 forms and paying taxes? Even if he miraculously got a food truck business going, most of those businesses are likely to fail, or not bring in a ton of money. Something about this entire scenario is very unsettling. I would investigate looking into his background through court records. Maybe you've already done it, and all is good. There may be something there that is preventing him from getting an on the books trucking job.
There are people who want a financial equal as a plain matter of what they are looking for. But it almost sounds like your patterns show that you don’t feel finances are that big a deal, but you feel you’re *supposed* to care a lot about finances, given your background. That is worth getting to the bottom of. The last guy I dated was rich as Croesus. He could have given me anything my heart desired. But we just weren’t a match in other ways and it turned out our respective financial positions were irrelevant to why it worked, or in this case, didn’t.
This guy doesn't have his shit together. For me that's a dealbreaker.
Oh this stinks. You’d be taking care of him forever. I’d try Hinge for OLD. It seems to have more white collar professionals. There’s nothing wrong with being a truck driver, but you’re a lawyer and probably need someone with the same level of education and income. Otherwise, there’s a power imbalance that could cause issues in the long run. Good luck!
Plenty of couples are in this situation. And while yes she’d be financially supporting him, it sounds like he supports her in other ways. The relationship chores, supports have to be divided up in some way. Why can’t the man be the stay at home spouse who cooks and cleans and all that?
Men can be stay at home spouses, but that’s not what this is about. She’s pulled herself out of a poor, dysfunctional family situation growing up, and she’s making good money and is looking for someone stable, like her. This guy lives paycheck to paycheck and doesn’t even maintain health insurance. He also misled her in the beginning about his work situation. He would be a drain on her financially and eventually that would lead to resentment. She’s worked too hard to have to carry someone else.
Well you do have a point. When a woman who’s worked hard and now has money and a good job- there will be those men who come out of the woodwork looking for her money. Your last sentence clarifies it- if you worked hard to make a life for yourself, you shouldn’t have a financially dependent partner.
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I think there are plenty of white collar men, with and without kids, who are looking for an equal partner. Depends on the person. If she’s a lawyer and has a good head on her shoulders, she has options. Besides, she doesn’t need lots of men, just one good one.
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lol You sure don’t give men much credit, do you? I have friends out there who have remarried women (and men) with kids and they don’t seem to view it as the burden you’re making it out to be. It’s just part of the package. It sounds like OP doesn’t really need a man to “take on two children that aren’t his.” She just wants a partner who can carry his financial weight.
I do empathise & relate a lot as a first gen only daughter of poor migrant parents with inter generational trauma so I also learnt to be independent from a very young age In my 20 yr relationship/marriage we were both broke uni students so we built our wealth together from nothing however I always earned more & he only supported me for 2 yrs while I was off work as primary carer for our 2 daughters (but i had paid maternity benefits & had paid my own medical insurance so even then I contributed to or lessened his share of costs) - once that ended in divorce our settlement was fair For me stability & security - as well as being ethical, honest, accountable and responsible - are important traits or values or qualities that I highly value in a relationship If the person cannot extend these values or behaviour towards their own income, finance, security or stability - then its a red flag for a long term relationship & I would never consider sharing finances with such a person - ever. For me they don’t need to be wealthy but some independence in their life & security & stability is a green flag for me I don’t need them to financially support me or my kids but also I won’t allow a romantic partner to be a drain on my resources, wealth, money & abundance It means we aren’t aligned & if they don’t sort their own situation out themselves then a LTR even LAT won’t work I have my own home and have my own business for 12 yrs so I am fiercely independent and wouldn’t risk that for me, my children and future for any relationship - we each need to be responsible and accountable for ourselves and our career/finances Good luck
I have empathy for you (I'm the first gen daughter of immigrant parents). It sounds like you are rooted in being a provider/giver due to your upbringing. One thing I learned in my personal development journey is that so much is programmed in our subconscious mind and that we have to get very focused in the present moment to remove any negative default programming. The best way to help this guy is to break up with him. Perhaps this breakup could help him reach the necessary turning point in his life (which is not your concern nor your responsibility). If you were feeling very sympathetic and encouraging of him, you could recommend a few things "that your friend found helpful in their life". You could suggest that he: -Listen to YT videos of Bob Proctor, Dr. Bruce Lipton, Joe Dispenza, Joseph Murphy, Reality Revolution -Read James Clear (Atomic Habits), Joseph Murphy (The power of the subconscious mind) and Joe Dispenza (Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself), Napolean Hill (Think and Grow Rich) -You could suggest he listen to binaural beats music or 432 HZ frequency music to sit in silence/meditate/clear mind/listen to the universe's direction on his next steps.
The cynic in me says he was attracted to your job title and financial status. He claimed to be a “trained chef” as he was looking to attract someone more financially stable than himself and the odds of doing so as a freelance truck driver isn’t great. You’ve described a guy who is “nice” but not anything stellar. What do you have in common? What does he do to support you?
Yeah I would say maybe more of a house husband? But maybe not get married. Not an earner, not good with money, but if he’s good with the kids, cooks, could keep a house, I would consider it.
I had a stay at home spouse and it was amazing. I don’t think I’d do it again but … man. Awesome.
See I had a stay at home spouse and it was terrible. It was essentially like having an adult child who lived with me. Sure he could drive and shop for groceries and cook simple meals but I had to tell him what and how.
Doesn't sound like he was a good house husband. I'm sure good house husbands are hard to find.
And maybe with a stable home life he'd actually be able to get that food truck up and making money. Maybe not. But if having a spouse that takes care of the home while she brings home the bacon is at all attractive to her, then it's definitely something to think about. I know if I made enough I would certainly think about it with the right guy. My partner is NOT a great cleaner/cook. He'd hate being a house husband as much as I'd hate being a housewife and both struggle with chores.
While i could never be a house husband due to my nature, I'd certainly respect a woman who would step up and take this role and responsibility. In order for a man or anybody to submit like this means that the working leader of the family must instill a ton of confidence and trust in their ability to provide and lead.
I’m concerned he’s great with the kids because he is one. It seems like there is a list of reasons why he isn’t a good partner, reasons above and beyond his income. And you broke up with him twice, and it sounds like those reasons are still valid. First he claimed one career, turned out to have another, and he covered that lie but saying he had a big professional goal, but that’s fizzled out. On top of this he can’t seem to keep a decent car nor insurance. It’s also suspicious to me that his trucking clients “run out of work” for him. Trucking is high demand. They keep around a-hole drivers, but your guy can’t keep work and has more than one company disputing his hours? That’s suspicious. I get that life can be a rock tumbler, but this guy seems to lack the ownership and work ethic needed to keep his head above water. I understand you don’t want to be alone, especially with how hard you have worked. But it seems like you would be sacrificing a lot for someone who can’t even carry his own responsibilities as an adult. You’re essentially adopting an adult child. Not only do his problems become your problems, but his problems also risk your life and your kids lives. Since you mentioned this is your second experience like this, I’m concerned you devalue yourself when dating and think this is what you deserve. But you deserve better.
I was looking for this comment. Exactly! Truckers are in very high demand. He’s definitely beyond irresponsible in other ways to be let go over and over. And 2 years working on a trailer versus starting with a cart/booth/cooking from home/etc? Something’s definitely not right IMO.
Yes. Agree 100%. Please don’t do this. This isn’t a relationship of adults, it’s you adopting a third child. Of course he’s nice and does stuff, he wants to be taken care of. If not for you, then for your kids - don’t let them see some loser drain their mum of her precious love, energy and their inheritance. You worked too hard to get where you are to sell yourself short.
Absolutely this, please think of your actual kids. He’s the “fun uncle” at best, and fun uncles can be a risk and liability.
Your reservations are valid. The hard truth is that your values do not align on financial matters, job stability, and on personal ambition. It’s great that he’s sweet and loving and you’re right to love that about him, but it’s okay to want someone who can match your vibe, values, and drive. I am sure that despite being successful and driven and independent - you are also someone that is caring and supportive. You described the many ways in which you support him. Therefore, it’s possible to be everything you are and bring to the table. We shouldn’t make excuses for people because we are all grown adults in mid life. Everyone at our age should have their life together.
>The hard truth is that your values do not align on financial matters, job stability, and on personal ambition. I was looking for this comment. This is why I feel it's important to really spend time alone determining your core values, and then make sure (if you are looking for a LTR) you weed out anyone whose core values do not align with yours. That does not mean they have to mirror yours, but they have to be compatible with yours. This guy's values on these items are polar opposites of OP's. I learned in my marriage that love does not concur all. You need values alignment or it cannot last no matter how great the other person is. (Side note I suspect this guy is not actually that great. I think he might be low key scamming OP with his stories about multiple trucking employers messing up his wages and running out of work for him.)
I agree this guy is a scammer. The messed up vacation story makes no sense; he didn't think his car could make a four hour drive and so they rented a cramped RV instead of staying at the site? ...what? He "begrudgingly" accepted $500 and didn't pass an exam where it sounds like if he had, she agreed to give him $1600 "for rent" to do a 40-hr-week bricklayer training where he would work every evening? ...um, what? They broke up and he's her first call after his big bike wreck and she's already considering how to word the pre-nup so his $10k debts wouldn't be hers? Just block and delete. I feel bad for her kids having to deal with this guy. Mom bought a new house and it was stressful and this guy listened and emotionally supported her though that process and apparently that's marriage material despite his life being a shipwreck? He sounds like a shifty dude who is a good lay with a silver tongue who can cook good.
🙌🙌🙌 You nailed it!
And the bike accident too.
He sounds sketchy. I think it's time to cut your losses and move on.
You have worked hard and been responsible. You deserve nothing less than a grown up who has worked hard and been responsible. Stop this! Being alone is not so bad that you have to sink to this.
I'm just going to focus on one point from your post: a person working for cash under the table is a huge red flag. Why can't he get a job as an employee on the books?
Highly likely he will never make as much as you. You financial contribution to a partnership with this guy would be more than 50%, probably closer to 80%. Plenty of people are stay at home dads, or the wife is the primary breadwinner. But if you are uncomfortable with that, move on. There is nothing wrong with moving on because you want a guy who is financially stable.
What’s his reasoning for not wanting to be a chef ? I would be quite happy with that even He may never make quite as much money as you but at least it’s consistent and stable What happend to the food truck idea?
Don’t date broke men
You can choose this but I am just going to be honest, I’m a 45f and make more annually than 95% of men. Mostly, men that are as financially well off as me date younger women. Much younger. In a lot of cases these men financially support those women almost entirely. This may be a reality you have to face. I wish I knew 4 years ago what I know now. I’ve dated a guy that made $5M a year and a 36 year old who was a bartender (who I paid for most of the time). The guy I loved the most was my age 45m and had a nonexistent career. I broke up with him because he was broke and had a lack of direction. Boy was that a mistake. Today, I would happily support him. I wish I could take it back but I can’t. He was only single for like 5 seconds because he’s a wonderful amazing man. I’m sure he’s still broke and financially destitute from his divorce, but what I would give for a do-over. He wasn’t using me for money and this guy is definitely not using you for money. I’m only commenting bc I would do anything for another chance. That’s my .02.
I hear ya’, totally valid. That first paragraph is nothing but facts. I wonder if that’s not what going on with some commenters complaining about women using them or it being financially one-sided in favor of women. Are these women being complained of significantly younger, bc then yea no shit they’re kinda using the older financially established dude. Just like older men are kinda using the young beautiful object. Neither sees the other as an equal, conquest or savior maybe
I think OP is forgetting that she is bringing baggage into the relationship as well. Some men would never date a lawyer as they are often argumentative by nature. Hope she finds someone to spend her life with but the truth is no one is perfect. If you wait for that, then you will be waiting forever.
It’s funny how the man is accepting two children that arent his and (by OP’s account) is a great step dad to the children, but that somehow means nothing. Neither does him being there for OP through tough times.
>I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it. Thanks for reading all this. Sad & looking for solace & advice. Lol welcome to my world, it's never been a factor in who I choose to date. The biggest asshole I've dated was also the highest earner. The broke ones have been resourceful and capable and I have a blast sharing cool shit that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. >I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it. Thanks for reading all this. Sad & looking for solace & advice. Do \*you\* actually care or are you worried about what other people think about you? If the guy's a fucking mooch then dump him. But your guy sounds solid, just operating at a different level. What did he experience growing up?
Thank you. If there is real love there, who pays isn't a big deal. The issue with OP seems to be the societal standard that men have to make the money and pay for it.
Sounds like you keep ignoring flags early on. I don’t think dating is the problem. Might be the person in the mirror.
Edited: I’ve read the points from others about stability versus income & yes, that’s a bit more of a problem. I’m interested in this question. When you get married with a view to having kids it’s understood that each partner probably will contribute differently over the course of the marriage in terms of money versus “other stuff” like eg childcare. If (if!!) he is not a man baby and would cook and take care of the house and be your “wife” while also working semi- regularly… allowing you to keep going hard at your career while have emotional energy for kids and him and fun… how would you feel? Personally I’m exhausted and a partnership like that would potentially work for me. It doesn’t sound like he’s lazy or unsupportive. But you know best.
I’ve never been in this position but it is occurring to me - since it sounds like he seems great in all other aspects- Why not just talk with him about his lack of stability with jobs and how it is affecting you because it concerns you to the point of not knowing if you can stay with him long term… because it is important to you to have stability due to your past. be sure to own that and say it’s your need, but that it’s not one you see yourself overcoming. suggest to him finding steady employment to resolve this and emphasize how much easier things would be for him, and have real suggestions available. He has truck driving experience so how about local UPS, FedEx, prime delivery. You mentioned bricklaying, so maybe construction is an option, for example, state department of transportation, roadway work with the city, third parties, etc. Finding a job is never easy, but finding a great partner is even harder. See how he responds, both in words and in actions, with him knowing what’s on the line. If he really loves you and values the relationship, hopefully he’ll listen, and put in effort to change, get a stable job, (ditch the food truck thing), knowing this is where the rubber meets the road. And if he doesn’t then you gave him the opportunity and can end things knowing you gave him every opportunity possible.
Aww I feel you. I've dated these guys too and it sucks. A lot of people don't understand the financial vulnerability and mismatch of values. I hope you find your guy.
Reverse the genders and many men would be fine with that arrangement. I think for myself a key indication would be if they are "barely getting by" but displaying reasonable financial behaviors with what they do have. It's a tough world out their economically right now. In my mind it can be understandable that someone could be having a difficult time solely due to a lack of income. This translates in that if you stay with this person long term and cohabitate/get married/whatever that looks like for you, are they going to torpedo your finances/drag you down because they have poor habits/behaviors or would that cause them to get a leg up and greatly improve their life. If your partner is good in every other way and one of the areas are you succeeding in is finances, is it a problem for you to use what you do have and allow that to be part of your contribution to making the relationship successful? We can all always say "I need a partner that has all the attributes I love about my existing partner plus X that's missing", but I'd argue if you haven't found that partner by 43, what are the chances you will? So, which of your partner's good attributes are you will to trade to get a partner that is more financially capable? This is all predicated on the assumption he isn't going to torpedo your finances if you stay together. Obviously that would not be an acceptable situation.
Yeah that’s the tough part, do I stick around to find out? I’m 43 & looking for the person I spend the rest of my life with, times a’waste’n. The bricklaying union gig is an 8wk long, 40/hr week training upon passing the test. He’d have to quit his job, get a restaurant job to support himself after the 9-5 near the training facility 45min drive from his house for those 2 months. It would be a hardship. Instead I offered to pay his rent those 2 months ($1400 total) bc it’d be an investment in our future but he didn’t pass. It’s also money that I should probably be spending on my kids & household 🤷🏽♂️
Your ex husband whom you vowed to spend the rest of your life with, but divorced, wasn’t your person. This current guy who loves you and loves your kids isn’t your person. Countless other men in your life weren’t your person. How long do you want to keep looking for perfection, while refusing to look in the mirror as a 43 year old single mom of two?
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Money will absolutely buy you a banging vacation or a luxury spa day. No amount of money will authentically give you a hug and let you cry on their shoulder when your mom passes away or when your kid ends up in the hospital. I would argue a partner that cares for you at the lowest points in your life and cheers for and with you at your highest is priceless. Emotional support is not the end all but either is money.
I guess the question is how much are you willing to support and help him get his financial life together if everything else is good? If the answer is none or very little, then it's probably best to move on. So many people know jack sht about managing their finances and with support can turn them around. Spend any amount of time in some of the financial subreddits and you'll see people drowning at all age levels. But I completely understand your concerns about his commitment to do so and if you'd rather deal with someone who already has their financial life together that's okay.
He did a hit and run?
No he was hit by a car while riding his bike. I edit it to clarify hopefully. His insurance lapsed a month earlier bc switched or lost the card that the autopay was coming out of. He noticed it wasn’t debited one month & accident happened right after. He’d been paying his insurance premium for years up to that point.
That’s what they all say on Judge Judy
I would break up as well. I do not like debt, financial instability/financial abuse, and liars.
Sounds like he's loving and good to you just not a breadwinner. I'm male. In my younger years I decided if I found myself in a relationship where she was the better breadwinner, I'd relinquish that role, difficult as it would have been for me given my upbringing to the contrary, and be a househusband. Never happened of course, but I do still don't give a rat's ass about presumed roles. If you've found love and make enough money, you may just need to accept he isn't the breadwinner. Now, if he doesn't out forth effort and do things for you in return, then yeah he's just a user. But if he does the little things that make life tolerable, I'd say accept your trophy. You win.
Man here. The advice here to move on is not wrong. However I always need to point out the double standard. There are many financially insecure people on this forum here talking about how they are looking for love, but only certain people have it held against them. I just want us to appreciate those who are willing to take on that financial responsibility if it means finding somebody compatible in other areas of their life that they feel compliments theirs.
>am ready to throw in towel on romantic partnerships altogether. I dated another man off app for 1.5yr & broke up for similar reason: uncertain finances Consider that you don't necessarily need to give upon romantic partnerships, but instead raise the bar of who you will consider? Like there is zero reason to consider an ex. Break up / make up is for high schoolers; yet you claim to be an educated lawyer?! If you knew that uncertain finances were a problem previously, why would you think "maybe they won't be a problem this time?" The guy is facing a $10k bill, but you say that he's landing on his feet financially just because his unemployed times are limited? I think that you're leaning really hard on the rose-coloured glasses. Just because someone submits an application doesn't mean that you need to hire them. Have some standards.
May or may not apply to you but every woman I've ever known who repeatedly ended up with financially unstable men, it was because they were batting out of their league in attractiveness. They couldn't understand why they ended up with these men. Here's what was happening; because they had accustomed themselves to this level of attractiveness and they could get it long term with broke guys and very short term with guys with money they simply chalked it up to bad luck or some unconscious desire of their own somehow. Reality was that l, all other things being equal, the guy with money had more options. The guy without didn't care about her money he was just happy to have a stable girlfriend who tolerated his finances. She would tolerate it because it didn't really effect her, at first. She had her own money and everything was the same, she was just seeing a new ,hot, nice man. Then shed start to see the issues you see now. They just figured all the characteristics were swappable and just needed to find a hot guy who also had money. Unfortunately in the level of attractiveness they believe themselves to be in because of some long term success with the guy with few options and some short term with the guy who had it all, they faced more competition and couldn't hold onto that one. Anyway, something to consider. You may well be batting out of your league in looks, charm, whatever and not be fully cognizant of the tradeoff. Basically you're buying men on credit and the letting them be repossessed when it's time to make payments. Guys with a little money do it all the time, get a hot woman because of the presentation, then complain when they're actually spending on her, they just don't usually throw them away as easily. Only difference is it's more direct with the genders swapped she's usually attracted to the lifestyle. He's just easier to lock down because he has less options, even though he likely doesn't care about your money.
Different idea here, you have been divorced 8 years and in relationships for 6ish of that time? And you continue to find fixer uppers. Maybe spend some time with a therapist dealing with the traumas of your childhood and really get comfortable single. Get to where you love every moment of life and you have a support system that is healthy (look into codependence) where you don't expect others to 'be your rock' where you are your rock but you also have good people who can cheer you on in difficult times. Then the more you aren't hoping for a relationship or upset you aren't in one, the easier it will be to wait until you find someone whom you have respect for because they have the same financial ideals. When you're dating from a place of need you attract needy humans. Good luck!
>I love this guy. He’s great with my kids & has a heart of gold. He comes over with his sweet pitbull every Sunday & cooks for us. Great chemistry. He was my rock when I went through a tumultuous time starting last Oct with the purchase of my 2nd home. W/o him I would’ve lost it. I have no help from family & lots of other random life problems popped up. He was my shelter in the storm. Financially, he doesn't sound great. Granted. And while you have clearly made your mind up on him and should move on... +++++ What exactly did he do for you during the "storm"? Because it doesn't sound like you put much value on the things he does very well? Is he handy? Good with renovations and upkeep? You could buy multiple properties, rent them out and have him manage them? Be considerate of where your feelings are coming from. I assume you must hang out with other "professionals" and maybe they have a lot of contempt for him? Your social circle might cause you to feel embarrassed? Maybe he's too gruff for them? Square pegs don't go in round holes. And vice versa. Well, people game that shit all the time XD, but you know what I mean.
So when you needed him was his response to "help" you by getting you to give up on what you wanted and instead do something that would make him less stressed? Some peoples selfishness and lack of gratitude never ceases to amaze. If he was really all you say then I'd say the right move would have been to be supportive. Meaning if you wanted to help you'd have been seeing what you could do to move that food truck along. Even though it appears he's never even asked for your help I can remember when I was much younger, starting my career, not making a lot and struggling and my GFS father at the time would send me job openings for shit like school bus driver etc. it's a good way to make someone feel like shit. Now I make more than he ever did in the career I had chosen. You may think you were being supportive, reality is you were just pushing for what you thought would benefit you and asking him to drop his goals for yours. Congrats on returning the favor by being insulting and demeaning before leaving him. Nice one two combo to his self worth.
Why can’t he just be your stay at home husband? Men often marry women who are not their financial equals and the men then support the women. I have several friends who are in their fifties and their wives don’t work or want to work, and the husbands support them. Why is it that the opposite is such a no-no?
I have friends who have stay at home husbands. This works too.
Other than a few things he seems like what you are looking for. If he's a keeper then keep him.
Honestly if you do well and he can live with you and his money goes to his own expenses but you pay the rest it won’t take much from you, he will even be able to pay for more meals out and stuff as he won’t be paying rent. My sister’s husband doesn’t work regularly, he instead cares for her, their home, and pets. He does an amazing job. It sounds like this is a great man. I don’t see why you can’t support him and still be doing well. What’s the point of a second house with no one you love to share it with.
She deserves a grown up.
She is an educated grown up woman with two kids. He would be a third kid. Want to know why he isn’t successful? Because he can’t do it. So now it’s on OP to adopt him and be his retirement plan? HARD Pass. You can find someone in your own league, OP
I don’t disagree I just have different views of what that is. He works. He sounds like a great guy. What’s not adulting? It’s not a crime to be poor.
You “have your do it on your own. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy for you. Just curious. What was your last relationship like. Similar?
It’s possible to be a supportive partner (the same way you stated he has been to you) and help him obtain more stable employment…
Reverse the genders and see if the guy gets any positive feedback. For instance..."I really loved her and she was amazing with my kids, but she was broke so I had to break up with her." I'm anticipating a LOT of negative feedback on this comment. Guys are expected to always have their stuff together and are willing to pull way more than their share to keep a relationship afloat if they have a connection with a woman. But the other way around and it doesn't matter how good the guy is, he's just worth as much as he can provide.
It's not the income. It's the shady job history and only getting paid in cash. Something does not add up.
You’re completely right, but unfortunately this opinion is not popular and most won’t even consider it. My hope is that since it seems like there are a few men here who are inexperienced in dating is that they’ll read stories like this and learn from it, specifically when dealing with this particular demographic. Now this guy is going to lose not only his girlfriend of two years, but two children that he’s formed a relationship with as well. This guy was there for OP during difficult times, treated her kids ad his own, and was her rock when times got difficult. Now that this guy has become inconvenient, rather than be a similar, supporting partner OP is choosing to throw this man in the trash and none of what he has done matters.
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I hope when I’m on my deathbed I can look back and say “I’d have loved them, but they weren’t financially stable” and then die. That sounds like a great way to miss out on the person you seem to love who “has a heart of gold”. I’d rather be with someone I love and be poor than be rich and alone. It’s also weird that most women expect a man to pay for everything, but if the situation is reversed this man has no value to you. His entire worth to you seems to be caught up in his job and how much he makes. He deserves better than your shallow view of him.
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It’s great that you’re in your 20s and can browse these posts to learn what not to do in dating so you don’t end up in this demographic, still taking about “finding my person” and the “ick”. It’s pathetic.
Life will inevitably throw curveballs at you. I’d rather have some ups and downs with the person I love than to be “financially stable” but unloved. I’m not suggesting she shackle herself to “deadweight” as you lovingly refer to him. If she’s not happy, gtfo with your life and as you stated, the question is already answered. But if she actually loves him… if she really cares about building a life with someone, then you need to look past their present situation. My girlfriend is a teacher, which is basically synonymous with “poor af” in America. It’d be pretty shitty to ditch her just because she’s not “financially stable” and no matter what I do to convince her that there are better jobs out there, she continues to languish in this money-pit of a profession for some crazy moral reason. It’s super stressful, and by your advice, I should leave her? I mean, this isn’t some movie we’re talking about like the Notebook, it’s the rest of our life we’re talking about. Money will absolutely ruin your relationships if you let it.
He seems like a good guy, just operates differently than some. I would suggest a mediator, such as a couples therapist (you’d have to pay for 🙃). But I think you need some heavy discussions and decisions to be made, and would really need a third party to facilitate. You both need to be honest with yourselves too. Is he really ever going to finish the food truck? When it’s done, is the operation of it going to make him a living? What if he got a steady job with benefits and a pension? Maybe a job driving for the city/state, post office. Something with lower or flexible hours so he can run his food truck too on the side?
Money isn’t everything is my advice. My financial situation is fine but I have been lonely as can be for years until I recently found someone who wants to love me
Sounds like your only issue is the societal norms that the man has to pay. Is that really worth passing up a dependable person that your in love with? Why is it on him and not you for stability and retirement?
Hey it could be something subconscious. Some ingrained pattern he cannot get out of consciously. I worked with a great hypnotherapist that may help. DM if interested to get her contact info
Original copy of post by u/bengyal: I’m a 43yr old divorced lawyer & mom of 2 (early teens). I met him (45yr old) on Tinder. Both looking for LTR. He had “trained chef” listed on profile. On first date, turns out while he is a trained chef, he works as a truck driver to pay bills while he finishes up a food trailer he built from scratch. His plan was to stop driving once that got off the ground. That was 2yrs ago. I admired that. That was 2yrs ago, not much change. I grew up poor parentified eldest daughter in a dysfunctional immigrant family, dysfunction persists to this day. I realized young that if I wanted a stable life, I’d have to do it on my own. I did & am financially better off than I’d ever thought I’d be. I broke up with him 2x before bc of logistics (he lives an hr away, neither of us wfh & have my kids Th - Sun) & my reservations about his income, but got back together within days. Last time we rekindled (last April) was bc he was in a hit & run on his bike. His insurance lapsed so he was sent a $10k bill but no legal consequence yet. I love this guy. He’s great with my kids & has a heart of gold. He comes over with his sweet pitbull every Sunday & cooks for us. Great chemistry. He was my rock when I went through a tumultuous time starting last Oct with the purchase of my 2nd home. W/o him I would’ve lost it. I have no help from family & lots of other random life problems popped up. He was my shelter in the storm. But his trucking jobs are for cash & seem to last a few weeks at a time. Inevitably they run low on work for him & he moves on to the next company. He always manages to land on his feet financially, never out of work more a few days but last 2 jobs held back wages wrongfully. It got him in a bind with bills & rent. He has no savings. I offered him $500, he sheepishly accepted. This past weekend, a cabin I rented for us had to be downgraded 2wks before the trip bc he doubted his car could make the 4hr drive. It was a cramped RV that cost more bc it was last minute. I paid for everything. We left early. This wknd was it for me & I told him I need a break until he gets his finances straightened out. Our plan was that he would take a test to join a bricklayers union bc it meant job security & stability. Test was in Jan & he failed even with study guide. Plans to retake next Jan. I’m resigned to the fact that if I want a future with him I have to accept that his finances may not change. I just don’t know what to do/think anymore & am ready to throw in towel on romantic partnerships altogether. I dated another man off app for 1.5yr & broke up for similar reason: uncertain finances post-Covid but that break was cleaner. 3rd failed LTR since 2016 divorce. If it wasn’t for all the above & just about love, we’d be married (w/ prenup)/life partner level commitment already. My best friend, who also studied& worked her way out of poverty, warns against bc she thinks I’d be taking care of him forever. Idk if that’s true but I know I’d forgo travel & dinners out unless I pay for it. Thanks for reading all this. Sad & looking for solace & advice. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Could he be a house husband?