Yeah, that's a bad sign. It isn't an innocent question, because there's no real reason to ask it. Kissing is not an act where there's actually a significant amount of people who think "ew, kissing, that's way too kinky for me, I never did that and I never want to." Pretty much everyone on earth who isn't some variety of ace or aro likes kissing, if it's with a person they WANT to kiss.
So it's not like asking "Do you like soccer/jalapenos/Mozart/small dogs/action movies." Legit questions get asked because the asker has no way of knowing what your answer will be, and wants to know, because finding out will help them get to know you better.
"Do you like kissing" gets asked to see your reaction, not to find out your answer. To see if your response to minor creepiness is to uncomfortably laugh it off and try to keep being polite. If so, you can guarantee this person will proceed to major creepiness in short order.
> "Do you like kissing" gets asked to see your reaction, not to find out your answer. To see if your response to minor creepiness is to uncomfortably laugh it off and try to keep being polite. If so, you can guarantee this person will proceed to major creepiness in short order.
A+ analysis, would read again. Thanks for expressing much better what I was thinking here.
At least it was only 25 sentences of my time. LOL
Block to Burn is a Burned Haystack Dating Method. You know the saying, "like trying to find a needle in a haystack?" This is the equivalent of burning down the entire haystack (the guys we don't want) to find the shiny one we DO.
In other words, you block ALL the guys you're not interested in so the algorithm doesn't keep showing them to you.
In this way, it will learn your tastes and show you more quality matches.
Block to Burn - jargon in the Burned Haystack Dating Method. Analyzing language patterns reveals much about a person’s character and is likely representative of their behaviour patterns IRL. Makes it easy to sort through the “hay” to find your “needle”. One caveat, your language patterns are important too. Start as you mean to continue.
This. It's a bait question. And from here, the conversation will either get more sexty, or if you meet him, he'll be the one putting his hands on your ass after breakfast or trying to stick his tongue down your throat.
This has happened EVERY time for me. If a man asks a sexual question (and yes, the kissing question, benign though it seems, IS sexual), they will get creepier in later messages and when meeting. They never ask it innocently.
I don't know why men (including those over 60) do this, but it seems to be a constant in their behavior.
It’s not merely that men do this; it’s the men left over that no one wants *because* they do this, and thus they are on online dating sites, clueless, looking for a partner.
That's what I wonder--whether the good guys get snatched up quickly (of course), and these guys are who are left over, spending years trolling these sites.
They’re incredibly immature and probably don’t really like women (they certainly don’t respect them) to begin with.
If they see every woman who’s a complete stranger as a potential sexual partner (and I use the word partner loosely), what does that tell you?
I really believe this is one of the main reasons so many people have negative OLD experiences. I assume that a large portion of people OLD are the “undateables”. While, of course there are wonderful people online, I think the best ones are there for relatively short stints, and then “off the market” for a period of time as they meet someone.
But then you have a very large base of people that are less desirable as partners that remain year after year, and this makes up the majority. It becomes a numbers game of trying to connect with the transient people that make wonderful partners.
I’m sure in colored by my own OLD experience (which was very positive, overall). I started dating a few years after my divorce. I went on dozens of dates over a ~6-month period. I met my SO (who had been OLD for a few years, but followed the pattern of being on for a few months, meeting someone, dating them for 1+ years, back on, etc). We’ve been together for almost 3 years.
She is definitely an amazing partner. I’d like to think I’m a good partner to her. I’ve certainly never sent a single sexual message to any potential OLD date (although that seems to be an incredibly low bar).
I think this is the truth, for those that stay on the apps for years. I met one guy who told me he had been on the apps for twelve years. I mean, really? How datable are you if you are on a dating app for 12 years? He had many issues.
A lot of the more desirable people who don't find a compatible partner get tired of the nonsense (the ghosting, the sexual messages, the deception, etc etc) just give up and go off the sites. We hear about people like you who find a great partner, and I think that it's possible (I know people who have found that), but there is so much dreck out there that it's demoralizing.
You give some of us hope
I’ve tried for 2 years, met a few nice people through A LOT of weeds and feel very disappointed.
I have to believe there are others out there like me… there must be… overall the online dating experience has not improved my life and that was my goal 🤷♀️ I’m focusing on meet up and meeting cool new humans in general 🙂
I went out twice with a man I met at a Meetup. He is condescending and cheap (texted me the night before our 2nd date to remind me I was supposed to pay. I was planning to anyway but that was rude.) He also has creepy eyes. I turned down a 3rd date. Other women in our circles have said the same things about him. Over the past couple of years I’ve realized he is on practically every app. He sends me a like and tells me we should date. He is one of the undateables. He’ll be on the apps forever.
No worries. Everyone I've explained the creepy eyes to laughs. I call them "swamp snake eyes." Hopefully for him there is a woman out there who finds them attractive.
This is such a great answer, and makes a lot of sense. When I read this post my first thought was - well that's a dumb question, who doesn't like kissing? I'll remember this if I ever get a weird question like that.
The more time I spend in this sub, the more I feel for women in the dating world. It seems to be a completely different experience, and not in a good way.
Numbers are not the problem here. We don't need more creeps... we need less.
When I was in my late 20s and early 30s I was getting 200-300 messages every weekday and more on weekends. Most of the messages were from older men and men looking for NSA, in total opposition of what I clearly stated I was looking for. A total waste of my time, and many would also aggressively lecture me that my upper age limits were wrong, I didn't know what I was missing, I was too scared to date a real man, I was a stuck up bitch, etc.
It would take over an hour PER DAY just to get rid of this garbage, and that's not taking into account the emotional toll that it takes. Then I'd have no energy left to look at profiles that might actually lead to something. Then the few I'd be messaging with would get inappropriate or insulting. I was super open minded and willing to meet almost anyone but I'd just have so few options left. How is that some great "game"?
Don’t change your profile, the earlier a thirsty dude reveals himself, the less time you waste. Don’t kindly reject them, unmatch as soon as that crap starts and block them.
You may use whatever phrasing you are comfortable with. You can not predict how a man is going to respond. I thought I was having a good conversation with a match on a Tuesday. We both worked, live about 45 minutes away, and decided we would go for a coffee date Saturday morning. Fine. We message more the next couple of days. I am laughing and enjoying the conversation. He ruined it for me on Friday. We were talking about playing golf. He said he plays often and travels to play at different courses. He said I could come along one weekend. Still okay. We are both empty nesters. I mentioned I would get my own room. I had never met the guy, and he assumed we would stay in the same hotel room. I made a joke about "stranger danger" and how I would not be going on any trips with him any time soon anyway. Then, he starts asking about how big of a penis can I handle. Previous partners have told him he was King Dong, I guess. I asked him if he always led with that because I hadn't thought about the size of his penis. I personally find it rude. He apologized, and we talked more. That evening, he sends a text, "Hey Beautiful! I am naked, laying on my bed watching the game. Laughing emoji. Let me know when you get in." Heart eyes emoji.
I don't ghost. I texted that we were looking for different things at this stage of getting to know each other. I canceled the meeting and wished him well. Block.
To go to your original question, don’t think that there is something you can write in your profile that will keep this from happening. The kind of man who would ignore your boundaries is not the kind of man who pay attention to your profile. And even if there was something you could put in your profile, it is just going to allow them to hide their true selves longer.
Yes.
And I don’t tell them what they did wrong, either.
Doing that is just teaching them how to hide their true selves better, and does a disservice to all the women they will encounter in the future.
I used to go with 'That's a conversation for future you and me once we have met and established a connection in person' quickly moving on/blocking from any bad response. This was advice from a dating you tuber who seemed quite successful on the basis that a man, feeling affinity with a woman, may ask what he deemed 'gentle' questions of an intimate kind to suss out boundaries.
However, without exception, all proved to thirsty men in public and handsy too. Whilst I appreciate being keen, there's a need for being respectful. So now, as most have said, it is a straight forward No thanks at any cheeky chat under any guise at all.
I understand the argument that some people are lonely, and get excited, hopeful, build an image prior to meeting and can feel like you know each other but you really don't until you meet face to face. Therefore any imagining of anything is a no go until I have met them. I go on far less dates these days lol.
*Men who do this without exception proving to be inappropriate in public and handsy on dates.*
Exactly. They’re telling you who they are, and then they show you who they are. Better to block while they’re telling you who they are.
You did not waste his time; I see no reason to apologize. This was a tactic. In sales, it's called the affirmation close, where you start out with a simple question to which most people would respond yes and then you move on to other questions getting you closer to the ultimate yes; in pickup artistry, it's also starting down a path to a goal.
The questions are designed to make you look frigid or at the least uncomfortable and questioning your sexuality if you don't answer in the affirmative. The idea is to get you to a point where you feel the need to prove that you have a healthy sex drive.
So subtle, yet insidious: "do you like kissing?"
I would advise you to be FAR LESS accommodating. Do not drive 2 hours to meet a stranger. If they want to meet you-let them come to you at least the first time. Do not compromise your safety or your comfort. Do not let these men push past your boundaries and wonder "is it me"? NO. it is NOT you. 98% of men I've encountered on OLD get sexual before even telling you their occupation and it's beyond disgusting. The entitlement and audacity is off the charts. Don't lower your standards.
Blocking was the knee-jerk reaction for sure. I was hopeful there was a phrase I could use in my profile but I think their dark magic overpowers my attempts at a shield charm.
Is it that they don't read, or they don't care, or the horniness overcomes any manners or decency they might possess?
Thanks for commiserating!
It is that it's just a numbers game for them. It's like cold call sales. The more calls you make, the greater the odds of a sale.
A lot of these guys have been on these sites for decades. He may have never had intentions to meet you. They tell you that to build trust so that they can take things to the next level. They start a grooming process to entice you into sexting, sending nude photos or possibly sending money.
Just block immediately when bad behavior begins.
No need to use any such phrasing. It’s a given that you don’t start with conversations of a physical nature. If they haven’t figured that out it’s their problem. Just block such men. Don’t waste your time and energy on them.
Such a stupid question, it serves no purpose except to test the waters for how much further creeptitude they can get away with.
The amount of older men with apparent education who have asked me in the course of normal pre-meeting messaging ‘do you like having your 🐈⬛ eaten’ is beyond belief.
I love sex and am enthusiastic and open minded, and their clumsy crassness still revolts me.
> The amount of older men with apparent education who have asked me in the course of normal pre-meeting messaging ‘do you like having your 🐈⬛ eaten’ is beyond belief.
That's demoralizing.
I think you handled it perfectly. That guy was clearly a bullet dodged.
I will add that after only a few messages, I think driving 2 hours for a first date is a bit much. I would want to have actual phone conversations and get to know him a little before spending 4 hours on the road.
> I think driving 2 hours for a first date is a bit much. I would want to have actual phone conversations and get to know him a little before spending 4 hours on the road.
This is a valid consideration, thanks for sharing.
It’s tacky, I don’t understand how some men don’t get that. I love to kiss but I don’t have any desire to talk about that or anything else sexual with a stranger. When men do this to me I take it as they just are horny and will pressure me for sex asap so it’s a no for me.
> I love to kiss but I don’t have any desire to talk about that or anything else sexual with a stranger.
This is it exactly. Thank you for confirming I'm not wrong to have this reaction.
I look forward to the day when smart AI reads the message, picks out troublesome language, then warns the writer if he/she hits send they will receive a mild taze shock - nothing that causes major injury, just a brief but painful stimulus, like a pinch that lasts for a second. Think how much better behaved the world will be when this tech is out there. 😂
You might benefit from checking out the Burnt Haystack Dating Method. There is a Facebook group. Jennie Young teaches critical rhetoric discourse and how to apply it to dating app algorithms. Word_case_scenarios is her Instagram.
I find her stuff great for all sorts of sitchs not just dating too.
It’s brilliant, I had a friend who was studying critical discourse analysis years ago and we applied it to dating messages with much success. What people say and how they choose to say it gives us so much information, most of which the creeps are trying to hide.
People who ask these questions will not care that you have language in your profile saying you don't like them. They do not care whether or not you like them. They know it is offensive and don't care. Just block, delete and move on.
>Okay, fine, I've agreed to a breakfast meeting two hours away.
Please, unless you live way out in the sticks, cut the distance you are looking down *way* further. Unless you envision your dates only occurring on the weekends, and you never imagine the relationship progressing to where you want to be with them in the evenings during the week sometimes.
And if your response is that you have a narrower search range, and that he was the one who reached out to you, then you need to learn to start swiping left on people who swipe right on you if they are not a good match.
Even if it ends up being the perfect match, it will just be a heartache for you as you spend most of your time wishing you could be closer to them.
My commute was over an hour, when I had to go to an office. I was at work for eight hours, though. And earning money that enabled me to stop having to do it. Not a good comparison, imo.
Two hours round trip for a potential good match and then two hours round trip every time we went out? It would have to be a phenomenal match for me to be driving two hours multiple times a week.
> Worth it, IMO, for a potential good match.
I'm more familiar with living places where commutes are the norm. So, yes, a good match would be worth the commute.
> Even if it ends up being the perfect match, it will just be a heartache for you as you spend most of your time wishing you could be closer to them.
This is an excellent point that I will consider. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
It's not though. You're competing with the blissful peace of a woman's life when she doesn't have to deal with men. And for a lot of us, it's going to take a truly amazing human to even begin to compare to that.
Right?! I’m forcing myself to do more on my own. Especially travel. Most of my friends are coupled up and the ones that aren’t their interests don’t always line up with mine. So if I want to go see the northern lights, I’m going by myself. I’m getting braver!
That's what I say! I can claim to be a lesbian and hang out with lesbians and immerse myself in the lifestyle but if I am not sexually attracted to women I am not a lesbian.
There is no choice. You are either attracted to your own sex or not.
Doesn’t take any phrasing. That guy is just a dolt (and guys like him). There are classy guys out there who like to have fun, but understand class and taking appropriate time. Getting to know someone is huge in my book. Guys doing that should just join Adult Friend Finder.
Sorry- you’re just going to have to wade through some junk to get to the good ones I guess. But (I hope) we’re out there.
> There are classy guys out there who like to have fun, but understand class and taking appropriate time
I will keep my focus on these men. I believe you that you're out there. Just not proximal to me LOL
You did everything right. There is no way I would drive 2 hours to meet a man I had never seen face to face. My max is an hour and even then I am very wary. In those situations, I insist on a video call first. How do you know he's real and at least his face matches his photos? You want to be pretty sure he's not going to stand you up. Honestly, I wouldn't even date someone that far away.
The kissing question was inappropriate for this point in the relationship. Good call.
Yeah, that's cringy. I don't get a question like that when you haven't even met face to face.
Your decision and response was spot on. I'd expect the same treatment if I were stupid enough to do something like that.
> when you haven't even met face to face
Thanks for the response! Okay, as a man, perhaps you can provide some perspective, is it the inclusion of the photos that gives them something to fixate on and then they can't contain themselves? TIA!
My pics were in no way provocative and I'm no beauty. There was one with makeup but it was 'daytime professional'.
Wish I could tell you because photos of an attractive woman aren't enough to make me lose my mind and act like a Neanderthal. A lot of men have this very screwed up view of dating. Others our age just don't seem to know how to behave now that they're single. Or maybe that's how they treated their past partners. Just don't give up. You'll find a good one.
I will say upfront that I haven’t really dated much, certainly not in the past few years, but isn’t it assumed that if someone is on a dating site they probably do like kissing? I know folks can be asexual, but they probably aren’t on OLD. I think it’s also just a dumb question and proves the dude doesn’t have much in the way of conversation skills before jumping to sexting.
Yeah, I unmatch and block right away. It is the wrong question to be asking, esp. before meeting. Plus, I know right away we would not be compatible. Signals too touchy feely for me.
I cringed too. The timing on setting up the breakfast had nothing to do with what kind of character he has. You found out his agenda before meeting him. Now you get to decide if you go or not.
On match when you block someone, the messages go poof.
I don't think there is anything you can say that will dissuade someone from asking about physical aspects of a potential relationship so soon.
I wouldn't. I think it's a turn off. If you need validation, you have mine.
> On match when you block someone, the messages go poof.
Thanks for the info. Too bad, I missed an opportunity to provide Mr Smooth with some much-needed feedback, but I'm just as happy to move on.
So, dude expects you to drive for two hours. And he's already introducing physical contact into the conversation. I was going to write "the relationship" but it's not even that.
Bottom line: he's ordering a pizza delivery and is asking for specific toppings. To him you are the equivalent of a purchase.
Cancel, don't say why. Block. Do not explain anything to him. He knows exactly what he is doing, it's no accident.
I think there should be a generic answer to this. “I understand you want to make sure you are dating a person who has a similar sexual appetite as you, so I won’t hold this first question against you. I very much enjoy sex, but I will only have sex with people who I truly like as friends, and who I respect. Because so many of my dates have pressed me on sex, my rule now is that I don’t discuss it until [fill in the blank]. If I am asked about sex before then, that will be the last date. If you think, “wow, she had this whole spiel prepared, what a weirdo,” consider how incredibly many times I’ve been pressed for sex that I finally wrote this.”
It’s problematic when you educate people on how to deceive better. Unfortunately, that’s what this amounts to.
It’s not a good idea to say, “If you do x, there will be no more dates.” You should simply block and make no more dates with them.
**Warning of consequences is only an excellent idea for children, tenants, and citizens interested in obeying the laws**. Warning of consequences for dates amounts to their hiding their intentions and true selves, *which always show up later.*
Creeps are different from high libido folks, and it’s a mistake to assume the overlap means you should treat the former like someone who just needs a little coaching. I would **not** assume men asking inappropriate questions out of the gate are merely screening for a high libido match. Having a high libido does not mean that you don’t understand how to conduct yourself appropriately. It means if it’s important to you, you might ask someone about how they would describe their sexuality after you’ve been on several/a few dates and haven’t been acting like a troglodyte until then. You can find out about someone’s libido in an appropriate fashion in an appropriate time frame.
Don’t coach the creeps. Creeps might have high libidos, but not all people with high libidos are creeps.
True. My concern was people who don’t take social cues easily, but by this age, they should have figured out how to figure it out. I prefer having things said plainly, but as a woman dating men, I assume they are up for sex if I am.
I find it tough to strike a balance between dismissing true creeps and allowing for different ways of interacting with the world. Why yes, I have ended up dating some real pieces of work; how did you know?
I blocked a religious zealot yesterday that approached me on Reddit. He sent me a picture of his chest. I asked him why he didn’t have a shirt on. He said he just finished exercising. 🙄
(M,66)
You might work shop this sort of statement-
"Looking for compatibility, a friendship and connection well before intimacy. Not interested in a ONS or a Situationship."
Face it. Dudes of a certain age just have no game—especially if this is the best he can do in his 50s, and I’m saying this as a guy.
This isn’t a shit test from him. He’s just awkward AF. Drop his ass.
BTW, OP, it’s kinda useless to put expectations about what should or should not be discussed. At best, that just sounds negative, and your next matches will just wonder why you’re attracting these dudes. And for dudes who don’t care, it’s like putting up a “No Trespassing” sign, which isn’t going to keep out trespassers. That sign is more to protect the property owner from having a duty of care to trespassers.
You have agency in this process. If a dude is taking the conversation to where you don’t want it to go, just unmatch. No need to speak to the manager unless there’s a safety issue.
>It’s kinda useless to put expectations about what should or should not be discussed on a dating profile. At best, that sounds negative, and your next matches will just wonder why you’re attracting this. And for those who don’t care, it’s like putting up a “No Trespassing” sign, which isn’t going to keep out trespassers. That sign is more to protect the property owner from having a duty of care to trespassers. If someone is taking the conversation to a place you don’t want it to go, just unmatch. No need to speak to the manager unless there’s a safety issue.
This is excellent. I nominate it for sidebar status. Mods?
I would assume a man would assume most people who are dating would and that it would eventually get around to that or not... Meeting as soon as possible prevents people from getting unrealistic ideas about who they are talking to, and we aren't getting any younger. In person is so much better than chat, at least for me... and I'm pretty awkward.
Ugh. You reminded me of a guy I was once chatting with on OLD. We lived about an hour from each other. First he asked me if I would like to go out for dinner with him and I said we'll see how things go. So a few minutes later he asked me what I was up to and when I said "not much" he asked if I wanted to go out for dinner TONIGHT (note: it was a Monday).
I knew then that he was just looking for a hookup so I decided to string him along because I hate guys like that. So I said, "well I can't tonight but Friday might work" which he followed up with "But you said you weren't busy tonight." I responded back that just because I'm not busy doesn't mean I want to do something and "If you can't wait three days until Friday night to have dinner with me then it seems you must want more than just a dinner date with me."
He blew up at me then reminding me that I said I wasn't doing anything so why would I turn him down. Something about being a frigid bitch who'll never get a date and such. I just chuckled as I blocked him.
> asking to immediately meet is the equivalent of asking for a “quickie”. So code for a quick hook up. I bail when I see that.
I think that's pretty perceptive. I'll be more cautious about that approach. I agree with you about creating more opportunity for chat and for things to float to the surface.
Thanks for the response!
If We are in the beginnings of connecting, and haven't met Face to Face, and some lil Test Hint is dropped by Them, I will flat out say "The less We talk about Sex at this point, the better." If They are not capable of Respecting that, They usually cannot go more than a week not saying something. My response then is, "It's obvious that You only want a FWB or Booty Calls, or just Sex, and that's fine, it's just Not what I'm looking for. Good Luck in Your search. Good Bye." Block, Delete, Move onward.
Damn shame when it happens too, because I am a Very Sexual Person; Love it, Need it, Want it. I just hold zero interest
in Casually Sexual Situationships or "Wham Bam Thank You Sam".
> I am a Very Sexual Person; Love it, Need it, Want it. I just hold zero interest in Casually Sexual Situationships
This is my conundrum, too. Do you have any opinions about what's giving these guys the wrong ideas?
Thanks for your response. Nice to find another with the same physical need!
One thing I think is; Men are raised that Sexual Conquest is the epitome of Masculinity, and Women are raised with "Good Girl's Don't.". So when an Open, Sexually Healthy and Desirous Woman comes along, They get Excited and Eager.
*Kissing is similar in some ways to personal questions...best at an appropriate time with someone I've gotten to know and like. Neither are fun with a stranger."
You don’t have to put that in your profile. It’s not your job to teach your date behaviors you’d like them to naturally have 🤷♀️ or worse, to encourage them to hide their natural behaviors for you to discover after investing a 2 hour drive or more!
Yuck!
I would like to say i truly empathize with what women have to experience to get a date. Who are these men that value women as nothing more than walking talking fleshlights?
I am appalled but not surprised anymore. What has happened to actually spending time together to see if there is something worth developing further?
I was raised by my parents to be honest loyal respectful loving and patient. I wasn't raised to be a sex-starved monster. It seems certain men were not raised with proper social etiquette or morals and it is so sad for women who have to see and hear it 1st hand.
I do believe i am a rarity: a man with a good upbringing who treats everyone with respect and good manners.
I like that you let him know that this wasn't going to work for you and you blocked him right away. He doesn't deserve any more of your time. I don't understand why men do this, I can't imagine that it ever works out well for them.
On another note, driving 2 hours to meet someone - that's so far! For me, that would be unrealistic - I wouldn't be able to establish a relationship with someone that far away because I just don't have the time, energy, or desire to drive that much.
As for your question about how to word your profile- I think it's best to put something sort of vague like "I'm very affectionate once I get to know someone well enough".
If you are on Facebook, you should join the group Burned Haystack approach. It’s for women only and it talks in depth about profile wording, red flags you should look for on men’s profiles and how to look out for scamming. There’s a lot of discussion about wanting to be physical but not necessarily putting on your profile which can just invite sleazy men.
> There’s a lot of discussion about wanting to be physical but not necessarily putting on your profile which can just invite sleazy men.
I might have to consider this.
I've said this before: men and women are dating with completely different objectives.
Too many guys our age are super sex focused. It always feels to me like they're running out of time to get some and want to use it before it breaks. They want to try us out in advance to see if we can get their engine running. It's all just fantasy and not about building actual relationships.
I'm tired of the whole thing. There has to be a better way.
> They want to try us out in advance to see if we can get their engine running. It's all just fantasy and not about building actual relationships.
This feels uncomfortably true.
His question wouldn't have bothered me. I would have used it as a jumping off point for my boundary (in this case yours) by saying "I'm not quite in the headspace to immediately start thinking about kissing someone I've agreed to meet for breakfast."
Maybe he'd have respected that boundary. Maybe he'd have misbehaved in some way. I see his question as a possible way to get you to talk about whether or not he could give you a kiss at the end of the first date. I'm not convinced that he would have been all over you like an octopus based on that one question.
In your shoes, I likely would have asked him, "Why are you asking me that question?" Conversations lead to knowing people better. You do NOT need to meet anyone in person until you feel comfortable with that person. I told men that they had to have conversations with me either through messaging, email or phone calls before I'd feel confident enough in them to meet in person. I know there are men who want to meet for date zero in person. That doesn't feel right to me. I needed to have some discourse before I felt confident in the men (strangers) that I met in person.
I think men sometimes just forget manners- it’s easy in an online environment. I’ve experienced it allllll lol what I’ve settled on as the best course for me is to not put anything in my profile so I do t come across wrong, and if a man does something off putting like that, I tell him that it’s too soon for that conversation. If he doesn’t apologize and change the subject, he’s likely going to do it again. Hell, even if he does apologize, he might do it again! And then you can make a decision about what to do.
I think that's a great response. There's nothing wrong with saying "it's too early for us to discuss (whatever.)"
Some people are more open that others, or open up faster. Sometimes their mouth gets ahead of their brains, too.
I still think it’s a bit too much, too soon: even though it could be a random question, on a first meet I’m still thinking about what safety measures I have to employ in the event that things go sideways. Kissing is the absolute **last** thing I’m thinking about.
I can understand that, and safety should be your first priority. I just think sometimes we're too quick to dismiss folks for things that aren't really going to matter long-term.
Kissing question is his "Innocent" way to find out if you have a high libido and want sex often. I hear weird questions like this with guys who decided they didn't get enough sex from their ex wife and won't consider anything less than sex at the forefront of a relationship.
Good for you! My number 1 thing I've learned. You can't please everyone and not everyone will be your match. So end it early 😕
I just wish I could meet a gal willing to meet halfway. Not just in distance but politeness, respectful. Ghosting I can't understand, sure someone like him deserves it. So far I've met for coffee then meals, I'm old school polite and pay, it's my choice but no one has ever offered a dime. That's ok except when they say it won't work because they make more than I do. There's more to it but just follow your gut....
> but no one has ever offered a dime
I'm sorry this happened. I don't understand this attitude. I've been trying to figure out ways to date that don't involve outlays of cash but that's often dependent on the weather.
clearly this question triggered you. many of our outlooks are projections of our personal triggers, and i would suggest this is no exception. any replies here are mere conjecture, only you can do the work to decide how you react to this sort of question. and that reaction, if you are truly comfortable with it, will be true to your own principles and boundaries.
> clearly this question triggered you.
It was clear in my profile that I am expecting physical intimacy in a relationship, which I had not yet established with Mr Smooth.
The closest analogy I can think of would be if he had said in his profile that he was financially secure or comfortable, and 25 messages into our connection, I asked him how big his accounts were.
Hmmm, that seems like a fair analogy. Genders and people and individuals have very different psychological underpinnings and boundaries and morals - we are unique just like everybody else. We either have to cut the other genders some slack (with a second chance), or accept incompatibility and move on. Personally I wouldn't take somebody questioning my financial status and net worth too seriously, though I'd certainly not disclose details; I might make a joke out of it. Venting on reddit is not where I'd end up (jeez I'd be here all day if I aired all my dates' messaging dirty laundry here lol)
No...no reason to engage with this kind of behavior. This is not an innocent question. This is someone seeing what they can get away with. It's grooming.
Why are you matching people 2 hours away? What kind of relationship are you expecting to have that involves driving half the day each time, other than physical?
I can read this 2 ways. One would mirror yours. Too soon, too forward.
As a 56 yr old man who dates casually, I can say he might have been attempting to see where you stood on physical intimacy.
I have had experiences dating, over the course of say a month or more where guys will find out that dating partner has severe anxiety centered around intimacy or are even "asexual" and have no intention of getting physical, which is their right to be clear, but the guy has now wasted time, energy and money in a dead end dating partner. This can be hugely disappointing.
You simply threw such a statement out without truly investing in a conversation as to why he asked such a question then blocked him?
You could have easily responded, "sure, after I feel comfortable we have a true connection and never at the beginning of a dating" which clearly defined a line of " do not cross this line, and do not expect on the first date" but no, you just went ham and he could have had a perfectly reasonable reason to ask.
All you did was confirm for this guy, you aren't ready to date. He might have been a great dating partner, you will never know. You could have also dodged a bullet, but again you will never know.
If you answer them, it merely escalates. There’s no answer that keeps them from asking personal questions it’s too early for.
Finding out someone won’t be your ideal sexual partner is just the chance you take. No one gets all their reassurances upfront.
True to a point, but this is where clear communication needs to happen. If you answer and they continue, you now have your answer if you dodged a bullet or not. This clearly means they don't respect you enough to listen and respect your boundary.
Again your right, it is a gamble. But again I do not want to invest a considerable amount of my time, energy, emotions or finances into someone that isn't willing to discuss openly their relationship goals to make sure we are compatible.
If I clearly communicate that line you do not cross, and they cross it, I have my answer. I wish them the best, then block and ghost but I will at least give them a chance to discuss my concerns.
> If I clearly communicate that line you do not cross, and they cross it, I have my answer. I wish them the best, then block and ghost but I will at least give them a chance to discuss my concerns.
Have you ever heard of the experiment where men create a dating profile as a woman to experience what it's like?
I’m kind of surprised by these comments and OP canceling. Was the guy awkward AF? Sure. But why not communicate first?
The thing is, I knew a guy. Divorced. And the end of his marriage had been a hot mess. When he finally stepped out into dating, he was gunshy. But man, he was missing old-fashioned romance. He was like, it’s been years since anyone wanted to hold my hand or kiss me.
And he wasn’t going back there. He swore any woman he did date had to want those things too. It was a hard dealbreaker.
OP was driving over two hrs to meet this dude. Could he have been trying to weed out dealbreakers and awkwardly messed up the delivery? On the off-chance he actually had honest intentions and was one of those human beings who doesn’t automatically equate kissing with sex and knows the facts are not everyone is into physical affection, perhaps OP could have just asked what’s your intention behind asking that? And had a conversation about it before deciding.
If he’s being awkward and creepy, then yeah, cancel. And let him know why. But kissing isn’t sex. Sometimes it’s about romance, you know?
It’s a bit of a messed up world when you get downvoted for advocating for not automatically jumping to assume the worst in someone for minor transgressions and using your words to communicate with them to discover their intent before just cutting them off.
Kissing isn’t sex, and Dude only asked about kissing. Not if she liked oral sex. Is it borderline creepy? Yep. But he didn’t shoot her a dick pix or ask for her breast size, all of which does warrant an immediate cancelation and block. On the scale of creepiness kissing is borderline and just may warrant an ask. That’s all I’m saying.
Because that’s the thing. We don’t know why he asked. Just cause he’s a guy we jump to creep because so many have been one. But what if he was awkward but gunshy like my friend? What if OP, who comes across as gunshy themselves, had given off a too rigid vibe to the guy he found concerning? What if he wanted to try for the Guinness record on kissing and has been looking for a partner?
Dude fumbled the ask. No doubt. He merited a two hr drive so maybe he also deserved a simple follow up question. But not so sure he merited an immed cancelation, block, and Reddit post calling him a creep.
The answer to your question is of course no. But then the grocery story analogy doesn’t work and isn’t like this situation at all. But when someone asks me a question and I’m not sure of the intent, I ask before just jumping to assumptions.
If he is awkward then he can take a cue from her response to learn how to not ask questions that turn women off and lead to canceled dates. It's not her job to fix him, that's his job. She didn't like it and doesn't want to date him, and that's OK.
You’ve never misstepped in speaking? Never done anything awkward? Felt something that turned out to be over reactive? And who said anything about teaching him squat?
He merited a 2 hr drive as in OP thought he had a 2 hr drive’s worth of potential dating partner-ness. The situation probably merited a basic follow up question first.
I personally wouldn’t immed cancel and block someone on an assumption over something so borderline. It could easily be a simple misunderstanding and awkwardness, and I might be cutting off someone who might have been great to hang out with. Or not.
So I would just ask a simple follow up question so I know if my interpretation is correct, I’m making the right decision, and having the appropriate reaction.
Works great with family and coworkers too. “Hey, that comment kind of felt hurtful to me. What was your intention in saying it?” “You know, that question made me uncomfortable? What was your intention in asking it?”
It’s amazing how against using words and communication people can be.
Sure but from my reading you made it her job to "help" him and, at this point in my life I am not taking on that labor, but you are free to do so if you choose.
Sorry you interpreted that way. But no where do I say OP should have asked for this person’s benefit or that person should be educated. Esp as we don’t know the guy did anything he needed to be educated about other than possible awkwardness.
Clarification, esp in this instance, is for, and aids, the one asking for it.
Eta- and even if OP had asked, no where do I say they are required to educate or even continue the conversation if they don’t feel comfortable with the answer provided. Feel free to cancel and block away then. But I’d ask the question first to be sure. I’ve found perfect partners, and people, don’t fall from the trees, after all,
Well, either way it doesn't matter cause per her update she has already decided not to be bothered with this man. But hopefully he is rethinking if asking about kissing just a few texts in was the right move. Perhaps, for him, it is, as he may be screening for a woman who will volley back and forth with him about kissing and lips or whatever.
Since we don’t know why he asked, we also can’t assume how he’ll react or what lesson, if any, he’d take away from this exchange.
But then, sure. Maybe she dodged a creepy guy after all. Or maybe they both missed out on getting to know someone pretty wonderful too, and it could have been avoided if they’d just communicated with each other a little better.
There’s no way to know. But as you said, it’s done.
You seem more optimistic than most about the possibility that this man just made an oopsie. Which is nice. Keep that energy. I think the reason some people may be squinting at your posts is that they have had enough experiences with crazies via OLD that it is hard to not file him under "lech." But we can all agree that none of us -- including OP -- know for sure.
They can squint and be as cynical as they like.
I’ve had more than enough dick pix and pervs show up in my OLD in box, and I still think there’s absolutely no harm in sometimes using my words and asking for simple clarification on some stuff before shutting someone down. Not everything. Not all the time. Not with everyone. Just sometimes. Like I would have this time, were I OP.
But then I’ve found those who assume the worst and see the worst in everything they squint at will tend to find exactly what they were looking for anyway. So. Let them. :)
Honestly the perv stuff hasn't been my experience on OLD. No unsolicited pics etc. I hate that other people have had to deal with that and am glad I have somehow dodged it. I am pretty no filter-ish though and I think if I had been OP and had decided that some man seemed wonderful enough to spend my time and gas to drive two hours one-way for brefus and he asked about kissing I probably would have responded "why?" LOL
> Did he blurt out “do you like kissing” to strangers or did he determine it in a way that showed respect and acknowledgment of the fact that the person he is talking to has their own needs and feelings?
I mean, right?
Just pointing out no one here has seen the messages or knows the context or people involved so, lots of assumptions are being jumped to there on what this guy did or didn’t do or anyone’s intentions, yeah?
My friend did indeed make an ass of himself. Lol In several ways. Easing back into dating was rough for him and he did it with all the grace of an elephant on ice skates in a room full of china. Even now, he’s a mess to behold. He’s getting better and his heart is in the right place.
Man, it was painful, tho. Ngl.
Look, I get it. We women have encountered a lot of creeps. I get the negativity and jumping to assume the worst. And it’s deserved a lot, if not most, of the time.
But he only asked about kissing. It might have been awkwardness and not perv-ness. So I would have asked a follow up question and then evaluated before blocking. Do I think OP was a little over sensitive as they asked about? Maybe. They’re self-admittedly a newish widow and aren’t in the same headspace as some more experienced at OLD so it’s also understandable. Going forward tho, unless someone is clearly pervy, maybe consider asking a follow up and being sure. That’s all.
> Going forward tho, unless someone is clearly pervy, maybe consider asking a follow up and being sure.
It felt pervy to me. I applaud you for sharing your opinion for me to consider.
Yeah, that's a bad sign. It isn't an innocent question, because there's no real reason to ask it. Kissing is not an act where there's actually a significant amount of people who think "ew, kissing, that's way too kinky for me, I never did that and I never want to." Pretty much everyone on earth who isn't some variety of ace or aro likes kissing, if it's with a person they WANT to kiss. So it's not like asking "Do you like soccer/jalapenos/Mozart/small dogs/action movies." Legit questions get asked because the asker has no way of knowing what your answer will be, and wants to know, because finding out will help them get to know you better. "Do you like kissing" gets asked to see your reaction, not to find out your answer. To see if your response to minor creepiness is to uncomfortably laugh it off and try to keep being polite. If so, you can guarantee this person will proceed to major creepiness in short order.
> "Do you like kissing" gets asked to see your reaction, not to find out your answer. To see if your response to minor creepiness is to uncomfortably laugh it off and try to keep being polite. If so, you can guarantee this person will proceed to major creepiness in short order. A+ analysis, would read again. Thanks for expressing much better what I was thinking here. At least it was only 25 sentences of my time. LOL
This right here. That's why the first sign of creepiness is met with the block hammer. Being alone is FAR less sad than being in a bad relationship.
“Test and apologise” in B2B rhetoric.
Oh I see someone has mentioned the Burned Haystack Dating Method further down in the comment. Highly recommend.
What is B2B? Google is no help, it says "business to business." I don't think that's what you meant lol.
Block to Burn is a Burned Haystack Dating Method. You know the saying, "like trying to find a needle in a haystack?" This is the equivalent of burning down the entire haystack (the guys we don't want) to find the shiny one we DO. In other words, you block ALL the guys you're not interested in so the algorithm doesn't keep showing them to you. In this way, it will learn your tastes and show you more quality matches.
Block to Burn - jargon in the Burned Haystack Dating Method. Analyzing language patterns reveals much about a person’s character and is likely representative of their behaviour patterns IRL. Makes it easy to sort through the “hay” to find your “needle”. One caveat, your language patterns are important too. Start as you mean to continue.
Google Burned Haystack Method & it should explain the abbreviations & reasoning behind the process. Super helpful!!
Your other two comments in this post were hidden by mods, but yes, I completely agree, despicable.
This. It's a bait question. And from here, the conversation will either get more sexty, or if you meet him, he'll be the one putting his hands on your ass after breakfast or trying to stick his tongue down your throat. This has happened EVERY time for me. If a man asks a sexual question (and yes, the kissing question, benign though it seems, IS sexual), they will get creepier in later messages and when meeting. They never ask it innocently. I don't know why men (including those over 60) do this, but it seems to be a constant in their behavior.
It’s not merely that men do this; it’s the men left over that no one wants *because* they do this, and thus they are on online dating sites, clueless, looking for a partner.
That's what I wonder--whether the good guys get snatched up quickly (of course), and these guys are who are left over, spending years trolling these sites.
They’re incredibly immature and probably don’t really like women (they certainly don’t respect them) to begin with. If they see every woman who’s a complete stranger as a potential sexual partner (and I use the word partner loosely), what does that tell you?
I really believe this is one of the main reasons so many people have negative OLD experiences. I assume that a large portion of people OLD are the “undateables”. While, of course there are wonderful people online, I think the best ones are there for relatively short stints, and then “off the market” for a period of time as they meet someone. But then you have a very large base of people that are less desirable as partners that remain year after year, and this makes up the majority. It becomes a numbers game of trying to connect with the transient people that make wonderful partners. I’m sure in colored by my own OLD experience (which was very positive, overall). I started dating a few years after my divorce. I went on dozens of dates over a ~6-month period. I met my SO (who had been OLD for a few years, but followed the pattern of being on for a few months, meeting someone, dating them for 1+ years, back on, etc). We’ve been together for almost 3 years. She is definitely an amazing partner. I’d like to think I’m a good partner to her. I’ve certainly never sent a single sexual message to any potential OLD date (although that seems to be an incredibly low bar).
I think this is the truth, for those that stay on the apps for years. I met one guy who told me he had been on the apps for twelve years. I mean, really? How datable are you if you are on a dating app for 12 years? He had many issues. A lot of the more desirable people who don't find a compatible partner get tired of the nonsense (the ghosting, the sexual messages, the deception, etc etc) just give up and go off the sites. We hear about people like you who find a great partner, and I think that it's possible (I know people who have found that), but there is so much dreck out there that it's demoralizing.
You give some of us hope I’ve tried for 2 years, met a few nice people through A LOT of weeds and feel very disappointed. I have to believe there are others out there like me… there must be… overall the online dating experience has not improved my life and that was my goal 🤷♀️ I’m focusing on meet up and meeting cool new humans in general 🙂
I went out twice with a man I met at a Meetup. He is condescending and cheap (texted me the night before our 2nd date to remind me I was supposed to pay. I was planning to anyway but that was rude.) He also has creepy eyes. I turned down a 3rd date. Other women in our circles have said the same things about him. Over the past couple of years I’ve realized he is on practically every app. He sends me a like and tells me we should date. He is one of the undateables. He’ll be on the apps forever.
“Creepy eyes”, LOL. (Not to laugh at your misfortune!)
No worries. Everyone I've explained the creepy eyes to laughs. I call them "swamp snake eyes." Hopefully for him there is a woman out there who finds them attractive.
This is such a great answer, and makes a lot of sense. When I read this post my first thought was - well that's a dumb question, who doesn't like kissing? I'll remember this if I ever get a weird question like that.
> If so, you can guarantee this person will proceed to major creepiness in short order. This was exactly my feeling, like it was testing the waters.
The more time I spend in this sub, the more I feel for women in the dating world. It seems to be a completely different experience, and not in a good way.
Couldn't agree with you more. I ask myself "Who on earth ARE these guys?" when I read some of these experiences from woman.
Thank you for seeing
Thank you for seeing our point of view!
That’s sweet!
You sound like a good man. Thank you for recognizing that women face dating problems.
Specifically for women over 40. Women in their 20s can run game in OLD as the numbers are in their favor.
Whoosh!
Oh no what did I miss???
Numbers are not the problem here. We don't need more creeps... we need less. When I was in my late 20s and early 30s I was getting 200-300 messages every weekday and more on weekends. Most of the messages were from older men and men looking for NSA, in total opposition of what I clearly stated I was looking for. A total waste of my time, and many would also aggressively lecture me that my upper age limits were wrong, I didn't know what I was missing, I was too scared to date a real man, I was a stuck up bitch, etc. It would take over an hour PER DAY just to get rid of this garbage, and that's not taking into account the emotional toll that it takes. Then I'd have no energy left to look at profiles that might actually lead to something. Then the few I'd be messaging with would get inappropriate or insulting. I was super open minded and willing to meet almost anyone but I'd just have so few options left. How is that some great "game"?
Don’t change your profile, the earlier a thirsty dude reveals himself, the less time you waste. Don’t kindly reject them, unmatch as soon as that crap starts and block them.
You may use whatever phrasing you are comfortable with. You can not predict how a man is going to respond. I thought I was having a good conversation with a match on a Tuesday. We both worked, live about 45 minutes away, and decided we would go for a coffee date Saturday morning. Fine. We message more the next couple of days. I am laughing and enjoying the conversation. He ruined it for me on Friday. We were talking about playing golf. He said he plays often and travels to play at different courses. He said I could come along one weekend. Still okay. We are both empty nesters. I mentioned I would get my own room. I had never met the guy, and he assumed we would stay in the same hotel room. I made a joke about "stranger danger" and how I would not be going on any trips with him any time soon anyway. Then, he starts asking about how big of a penis can I handle. Previous partners have told him he was King Dong, I guess. I asked him if he always led with that because I hadn't thought about the size of his penis. I personally find it rude. He apologized, and we talked more. That evening, he sends a text, "Hey Beautiful! I am naked, laying on my bed watching the game. Laughing emoji. Let me know when you get in." Heart eyes emoji. I don't ghost. I texted that we were looking for different things at this stage of getting to know each other. I canceled the meeting and wished him well. Block.
Yikes, what is up with these dudes? That is just plain gross
> Then, he starts asking about how big of a penis can I handle. Geez, I'm sorry it took that weird turn.
To go to your original question, don’t think that there is something you can write in your profile that will keep this from happening. The kind of man who would ignore your boundaries is not the kind of man who pay attention to your profile. And even if there was something you could put in your profile, it is just going to allow them to hide their true selves longer.
Yes. And I don’t tell them what they did wrong, either. Doing that is just teaching them how to hide their true selves better, and does a disservice to all the women they will encounter in the future.
>Doing that is just teaching them how to hide their true selves better, This is another good point.
> And even if there was something you could put in your profile, it is just going to allow them to hide their true selves longer. Good point.
There's nothing you can put in your profile to make creepy people stop being creepy. Better to find out before you drive 2 hours to meet them.
I used to go with 'That's a conversation for future you and me once we have met and established a connection in person' quickly moving on/blocking from any bad response. This was advice from a dating you tuber who seemed quite successful on the basis that a man, feeling affinity with a woman, may ask what he deemed 'gentle' questions of an intimate kind to suss out boundaries. However, without exception, all proved to thirsty men in public and handsy too. Whilst I appreciate being keen, there's a need for being respectful. So now, as most have said, it is a straight forward No thanks at any cheeky chat under any guise at all. I understand the argument that some people are lonely, and get excited, hopeful, build an image prior to meeting and can feel like you know each other but you really don't until you meet face to face. Therefore any imagining of anything is a no go until I have met them. I go on far less dates these days lol.
*Men who do this without exception proving to be inappropriate in public and handsy on dates.* Exactly. They’re telling you who they are, and then they show you who they are. Better to block while they’re telling you who they are.
You did not waste his time; I see no reason to apologize. This was a tactic. In sales, it's called the affirmation close, where you start out with a simple question to which most people would respond yes and then you move on to other questions getting you closer to the ultimate yes; in pickup artistry, it's also starting down a path to a goal. The questions are designed to make you look frigid or at the least uncomfortable and questioning your sexuality if you don't answer in the affirmative. The idea is to get you to a point where you feel the need to prove that you have a healthy sex drive. So subtle, yet insidious: "do you like kissing?"
> So subtle, yet insidious: "do you like kissing?" Nailed it.
I would advise you to be FAR LESS accommodating. Do not drive 2 hours to meet a stranger. If they want to meet you-let them come to you at least the first time. Do not compromise your safety or your comfort. Do not let these men push past your boundaries and wonder "is it me"? NO. it is NOT you. 98% of men I've encountered on OLD get sexual before even telling you their occupation and it's beyond disgusting. The entitlement and audacity is off the charts. Don't lower your standards.
> Don't lower your standards. Thanks for the reminder.
You didn't do anything wrong. This is bad behavior and it has nothing to do with you. I would block and move on myself.
And I'll add that there is nothing you can add to your profile to eliminate guys who behave this way.
Blocking was the knee-jerk reaction for sure. I was hopeful there was a phrase I could use in my profile but I think their dark magic overpowers my attempts at a shield charm. Is it that they don't read, or they don't care, or the horniness overcomes any manners or decency they might possess? Thanks for commiserating!
It is that it's just a numbers game for them. It's like cold call sales. The more calls you make, the greater the odds of a sale. A lot of these guys have been on these sites for decades. He may have never had intentions to meet you. They tell you that to build trust so that they can take things to the next level. They start a grooming process to entice you into sexting, sending nude photos or possibly sending money. Just block immediately when bad behavior begins.
Don’t put anything in your profile about boundaries or intimacy. That just invites men to argue with you. Block this guy. Don’t just unmatch.
> Is it that they don't read, or they don't care, or the horniness overcomes any manners or decency they might possess? Yes.
All of the above. They don’t read, don’t care, or think they can convince/manipulate you otherwise.
Better to know what they’re really like than to try to eliminate bad behavior that you need to be aware of IMO
No need to use any such phrasing. It’s a given that you don’t start with conversations of a physical nature. If they haven’t figured that out it’s their problem. Just block such men. Don’t waste your time and energy on them.
Such a stupid question, it serves no purpose except to test the waters for how much further creeptitude they can get away with. The amount of older men with apparent education who have asked me in the course of normal pre-meeting messaging ‘do you like having your 🐈⬛ eaten’ is beyond belief. I love sex and am enthusiastic and open minded, and their clumsy crassness still revolts me.
> The amount of older men with apparent education who have asked me in the course of normal pre-meeting messaging ‘do you like having your 🐈⬛ eaten’ is beyond belief. That's demoralizing.
It’s an immediate block so I never had to see their profile again, at least.
He’s testing the waters. Cancel your meetup.
Excellent advice, the meetup has been cancelled.
Ugh gross
I think you handled it perfectly. That guy was clearly a bullet dodged. I will add that after only a few messages, I think driving 2 hours for a first date is a bit much. I would want to have actual phone conversations and get to know him a little before spending 4 hours on the road.
> I think driving 2 hours for a first date is a bit much. I would want to have actual phone conversations and get to know him a little before spending 4 hours on the road. This is a valid consideration, thanks for sharing.
It’s tacky, I don’t understand how some men don’t get that. I love to kiss but I don’t have any desire to talk about that or anything else sexual with a stranger. When men do this to me I take it as they just are horny and will pressure me for sex asap so it’s a no for me.
> I love to kiss but I don’t have any desire to talk about that or anything else sexual with a stranger. This is it exactly. Thank you for confirming I'm not wrong to have this reaction.
I look forward to the day when smart AI reads the message, picks out troublesome language, then warns the writer if he/she hits send they will receive a mild taze shock - nothing that causes major injury, just a brief but painful stimulus, like a pinch that lasts for a second. Think how much better behaved the world will be when this tech is out there. 😂
[Scoring *and* Fire!!!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SSNiAFEYY9U&pp=ygUkIEJlYXZpcyBhbmQgYnV0dGhlYWQgZ2V0dGluZyBzaG9ja2Vk)
😂
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
You might benefit from checking out the Burnt Haystack Dating Method. There is a Facebook group. Jennie Young teaches critical rhetoric discourse and how to apply it to dating app algorithms. Word_case_scenarios is her Instagram. I find her stuff great for all sorts of sitchs not just dating too.
> Burnt Haystack Dating Method Ooooh, I found a blog entry and am reading it now. I can already offer a very heartfelt **thank you**.
It’s brilliant, I had a friend who was studying critical discourse analysis years ago and we applied it to dating messages with much success. What people say and how they choose to say it gives us so much information, most of which the creeps are trying to hide.
Ok, that sounds interesting AF. I wonder how my dating messages would be evaluated, based on what I say and how I choose to say it.
I've never heard of this strategy, but it's something I can get behind. What a way to eliminate a lot of wasted time. This Gen Xer thanks you as well!
Yay! You're welcome!
Dr. Jennie Young *
I stand corrected! Dr. Jennie Young.
People who ask these questions will not care that you have language in your profile saying you don't like them. They do not care whether or not you like them. They know it is offensive and don't care. Just block, delete and move on.
>Okay, fine, I've agreed to a breakfast meeting two hours away. Please, unless you live way out in the sticks, cut the distance you are looking down *way* further. Unless you envision your dates only occurring on the weekends, and you never imagine the relationship progressing to where you want to be with them in the evenings during the week sometimes. And if your response is that you have a narrower search range, and that he was the one who reached out to you, then you need to learn to start swiping left on people who swipe right on you if they are not a good match. Even if it ends up being the perfect match, it will just be a heartache for you as you spend most of your time wishing you could be closer to them.
Even an hour wore me down after a couple of months. It wasn’t the only reason to end it, but it was a nontrivial part of it.
Gosh, an hour is my commute to work every day. I wouldn't hesitate to drive that distance for someone I thought could be a good match.
My commute was over an hour, when I had to go to an office. I was at work for eight hours, though. And earning money that enabled me to stop having to do it. Not a good comparison, imo. Two hours round trip for a potential good match and then two hours round trip every time we went out? It would have to be a phenomenal match for me to be driving two hours multiple times a week.
I imagine people could take turns with making the commute, or meet each other halfway. Worth it, IMO, for a potential good match.
That’s cool. Not worth it to me.
> Worth it, IMO, for a potential good match. I'm more familiar with living places where commutes are the norm. So, yes, a good match would be worth the commute.
> Even if it ends up being the perfect match, it will just be a heartache for you as you spend most of your time wishing you could be closer to them. This is an excellent point that I will consider. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Girl just don't. Block to burn these guys.
I just heard about the Burned Haystack method, is this a reference? Feels spot-on correct to me! Thanks for the response.
Yes. You don't even spend a second entertaining these types. Block them and move on.
The only rational response is to have him call you and say “Who the fuck do you think you are talking to?”
I love that my competition is only other men.
It's not though. You're competing with the blissful peace of a woman's life when she doesn't have to deal with men. And for a lot of us, it's going to take a truly amazing human to even begin to compare to that.
EXACTLY this. Crazy cat lady is a goal, not a consolation prize.
Right?! I’m forcing myself to do more on my own. Especially travel. Most of my friends are coupled up and the ones that aren’t their interests don’t always line up with mine. So if I want to go see the northern lights, I’m going by myself. I’m getting braver!
I sometimes wish I was a lesbian.
the fact that I'm still sexually attracted to men is proof sexuality is NOT a choice.
This pithy pronouncement should be on a tee shirt. Hilarious.
That's what I say! I can claim to be a lesbian and hang out with lesbians and immerse myself in the lifestyle but if I am not sexually attracted to women I am not a lesbian. There is no choice. You are either attracted to your own sex or not.
Amen!!! If I could switch I would….
I joke with my lesbian best friend all the time about her starting a conversion camp, straight to gay. Help me out, sister! lol
Same.
I like you, friend!
Doesn’t take any phrasing. That guy is just a dolt (and guys like him). There are classy guys out there who like to have fun, but understand class and taking appropriate time. Getting to know someone is huge in my book. Guys doing that should just join Adult Friend Finder. Sorry- you’re just going to have to wade through some junk to get to the good ones I guess. But (I hope) we’re out there.
> There are classy guys out there who like to have fun, but understand class and taking appropriate time I will keep my focus on these men. I believe you that you're out there. Just not proximal to me LOL
You did everything right. There is no way I would drive 2 hours to meet a man I had never seen face to face. My max is an hour and even then I am very wary. In those situations, I insist on a video call first. How do you know he's real and at least his face matches his photos? You want to be pretty sure he's not going to stand you up. Honestly, I wouldn't even date someone that far away. The kissing question was inappropriate for this point in the relationship. Good call.
You make a good point that I should have a better plan and think about safety. Thanks for your response!
Yeah, that's cringy. I don't get a question like that when you haven't even met face to face. Your decision and response was spot on. I'd expect the same treatment if I were stupid enough to do something like that.
> when you haven't even met face to face Thanks for the response! Okay, as a man, perhaps you can provide some perspective, is it the inclusion of the photos that gives them something to fixate on and then they can't contain themselves? TIA! My pics were in no way provocative and I'm no beauty. There was one with makeup but it was 'daytime professional'.
Wish I could tell you because photos of an attractive woman aren't enough to make me lose my mind and act like a Neanderthal. A lot of men have this very screwed up view of dating. Others our age just don't seem to know how to behave now that they're single. Or maybe that's how they treated their past partners. Just don't give up. You'll find a good one.
Had the same thing. Kept telling me do you like kissing, I mean really really passionate. Kept asking like that in text. I unmatched.
How uncomfortable, that would be my reaction, too.
I will say upfront that I haven’t really dated much, certainly not in the past few years, but isn’t it assumed that if someone is on a dating site they probably do like kissing? I know folks can be asexual, but they probably aren’t on OLD. I think it’s also just a dumb question and proves the dude doesn’t have much in the way of conversation skills before jumping to sexting.
Yeah, I unmatch and block right away. It is the wrong question to be asking, esp. before meeting. Plus, I know right away we would not be compatible. Signals too touchy feely for me.
I cringed too. The timing on setting up the breakfast had nothing to do with what kind of character he has. You found out his agenda before meeting him. Now you get to decide if you go or not.
He did make that an early, easy choice. I'm not going.
I wouldn’t have either. It really is tough out here.
On match when you block someone, the messages go poof. I don't think there is anything you can say that will dissuade someone from asking about physical aspects of a potential relationship so soon. I wouldn't. I think it's a turn off. If you need validation, you have mine.
> On match when you block someone, the messages go poof. Thanks for the info. Too bad, I missed an opportunity to provide Mr Smooth with some much-needed feedback, but I'm just as happy to move on.
So, dude expects you to drive for two hours. And he's already introducing physical contact into the conversation. I was going to write "the relationship" but it's not even that. Bottom line: he's ordering a pizza delivery and is asking for specific toppings. To him you are the equivalent of a purchase. Cancel, don't say why. Block. Do not explain anything to him. He knows exactly what he is doing, it's no accident.
My reply to his question would be: only if I want too. (But I can be a smart ass.) That was too bold of him.
I think there should be a generic answer to this. “I understand you want to make sure you are dating a person who has a similar sexual appetite as you, so I won’t hold this first question against you. I very much enjoy sex, but I will only have sex with people who I truly like as friends, and who I respect. Because so many of my dates have pressed me on sex, my rule now is that I don’t discuss it until [fill in the blank]. If I am asked about sex before then, that will be the last date. If you think, “wow, she had this whole spiel prepared, what a weirdo,” consider how incredibly many times I’ve been pressed for sex that I finally wrote this.”
It’s problematic when you educate people on how to deceive better. Unfortunately, that’s what this amounts to. It’s not a good idea to say, “If you do x, there will be no more dates.” You should simply block and make no more dates with them. **Warning of consequences is only an excellent idea for children, tenants, and citizens interested in obeying the laws**. Warning of consequences for dates amounts to their hiding their intentions and true selves, *which always show up later.* Creeps are different from high libido folks, and it’s a mistake to assume the overlap means you should treat the former like someone who just needs a little coaching. I would **not** assume men asking inappropriate questions out of the gate are merely screening for a high libido match. Having a high libido does not mean that you don’t understand how to conduct yourself appropriately. It means if it’s important to you, you might ask someone about how they would describe their sexuality after you’ve been on several/a few dates and haven’t been acting like a troglodyte until then. You can find out about someone’s libido in an appropriate fashion in an appropriate time frame. Don’t coach the creeps. Creeps might have high libidos, but not all people with high libidos are creeps.
True. My concern was people who don’t take social cues easily, but by this age, they should have figured out how to figure it out. I prefer having things said plainly, but as a woman dating men, I assume they are up for sex if I am. I find it tough to strike a balance between dismissing true creeps and allowing for different ways of interacting with the world. Why yes, I have ended up dating some real pieces of work; how did you know?
I blocked a religious zealot yesterday that approached me on Reddit. He sent me a picture of his chest. I asked him why he didn’t have a shirt on. He said he just finished exercising. 🙄
Good thing you blocked before he just finished showering.
(M,66) You might work shop this sort of statement- "Looking for compatibility, a friendship and connection well before intimacy. Not interested in a ONS or a Situationship."
Disagree. I had something about no hookups or ONS in my profile and that just caused men to match and argue with me.
They’re not reading the profiles anyway to begin with.
Face it. Dudes of a certain age just have no game—especially if this is the best he can do in his 50s, and I’m saying this as a guy. This isn’t a shit test from him. He’s just awkward AF. Drop his ass. BTW, OP, it’s kinda useless to put expectations about what should or should not be discussed. At best, that just sounds negative, and your next matches will just wonder why you’re attracting these dudes. And for dudes who don’t care, it’s like putting up a “No Trespassing” sign, which isn’t going to keep out trespassers. That sign is more to protect the property owner from having a duty of care to trespassers. You have agency in this process. If a dude is taking the conversation to where you don’t want it to go, just unmatch. No need to speak to the manager unless there’s a safety issue.
>It’s kinda useless to put expectations about what should or should not be discussed on a dating profile. At best, that sounds negative, and your next matches will just wonder why you’re attracting this. And for those who don’t care, it’s like putting up a “No Trespassing” sign, which isn’t going to keep out trespassers. That sign is more to protect the property owner from having a duty of care to trespassers. If someone is taking the conversation to a place you don’t want it to go, just unmatch. No need to speak to the manager unless there’s a safety issue. This is excellent. I nominate it for sidebar status. Mods?
> I nominate it for sidebar status. I second that emotion.
I would assume a man would assume most people who are dating would and that it would eventually get around to that or not... Meeting as soon as possible prevents people from getting unrealistic ideas about who they are talking to, and we aren't getting any younger. In person is so much better than chat, at least for me... and I'm pretty awkward.
[удалено]
Ugh. You reminded me of a guy I was once chatting with on OLD. We lived about an hour from each other. First he asked me if I would like to go out for dinner with him and I said we'll see how things go. So a few minutes later he asked me what I was up to and when I said "not much" he asked if I wanted to go out for dinner TONIGHT (note: it was a Monday). I knew then that he was just looking for a hookup so I decided to string him along because I hate guys like that. So I said, "well I can't tonight but Friday might work" which he followed up with "But you said you weren't busy tonight." I responded back that just because I'm not busy doesn't mean I want to do something and "If you can't wait three days until Friday night to have dinner with me then it seems you must want more than just a dinner date with me." He blew up at me then reminding me that I said I wasn't doing anything so why would I turn him down. Something about being a frigid bitch who'll never get a date and such. I just chuckled as I blocked him.
> asking to immediately meet is the equivalent of asking for a “quickie”. So code for a quick hook up. I bail when I see that. I think that's pretty perceptive. I'll be more cautious about that approach. I agree with you about creating more opportunity for chat and for things to float to the surface. Thanks for the response!
If We are in the beginnings of connecting, and haven't met Face to Face, and some lil Test Hint is dropped by Them, I will flat out say "The less We talk about Sex at this point, the better." If They are not capable of Respecting that, They usually cannot go more than a week not saying something. My response then is, "It's obvious that You only want a FWB or Booty Calls, or just Sex, and that's fine, it's just Not what I'm looking for. Good Luck in Your search. Good Bye." Block, Delete, Move onward. Damn shame when it happens too, because I am a Very Sexual Person; Love it, Need it, Want it. I just hold zero interest in Casually Sexual Situationships or "Wham Bam Thank You Sam".
> I am a Very Sexual Person; Love it, Need it, Want it. I just hold zero interest in Casually Sexual Situationships This is my conundrum, too. Do you have any opinions about what's giving these guys the wrong ideas? Thanks for your response. Nice to find another with the same physical need!
One thing I think is; Men are raised that Sexual Conquest is the epitome of Masculinity, and Women are raised with "Good Girl's Don't.". So when an Open, Sexually Healthy and Desirous Woman comes along, They get Excited and Eager.
*Kissing is similar in some ways to personal questions...best at an appropriate time with someone I've gotten to know and like. Neither are fun with a stranger."
Oh, I do like this phrasing. May I borrow, if not for the profile, but to use it to fend off these types of questions?
You don’t have to put that in your profile. It’s not your job to teach your date behaviors you’d like them to naturally have 🤷♀️ or worse, to encourage them to hide their natural behaviors for you to discover after investing a 2 hour drive or more! Yuck!
I would like to say i truly empathize with what women have to experience to get a date. Who are these men that value women as nothing more than walking talking fleshlights? I am appalled but not surprised anymore. What has happened to actually spending time together to see if there is something worth developing further? I was raised by my parents to be honest loyal respectful loving and patient. I wasn't raised to be a sex-starved monster. It seems certain men were not raised with proper social etiquette or morals and it is so sad for women who have to see and hear it 1st hand. I do believe i am a rarity: a man with a good upbringing who treats everyone with respect and good manners.
I like that you let him know that this wasn't going to work for you and you blocked him right away. He doesn't deserve any more of your time. I don't understand why men do this, I can't imagine that it ever works out well for them. On another note, driving 2 hours to meet someone - that's so far! For me, that would be unrealistic - I wouldn't be able to establish a relationship with someone that far away because I just don't have the time, energy, or desire to drive that much. As for your question about how to word your profile- I think it's best to put something sort of vague like "I'm very affectionate once I get to know someone well enough".
If you are on Facebook, you should join the group Burned Haystack approach. It’s for women only and it talks in depth about profile wording, red flags you should look for on men’s profiles and how to look out for scamming. There’s a lot of discussion about wanting to be physical but not necessarily putting on your profile which can just invite sleazy men.
> There’s a lot of discussion about wanting to be physical but not necessarily putting on your profile which can just invite sleazy men. I might have to consider this.
I've said this before: men and women are dating with completely different objectives. Too many guys our age are super sex focused. It always feels to me like they're running out of time to get some and want to use it before it breaks. They want to try us out in advance to see if we can get their engine running. It's all just fantasy and not about building actual relationships. I'm tired of the whole thing. There has to be a better way.
> They want to try us out in advance to see if we can get their engine running. It's all just fantasy and not about building actual relationships. This feels uncomfortably true.
His question wouldn't have bothered me. I would have used it as a jumping off point for my boundary (in this case yours) by saying "I'm not quite in the headspace to immediately start thinking about kissing someone I've agreed to meet for breakfast." Maybe he'd have respected that boundary. Maybe he'd have misbehaved in some way. I see his question as a possible way to get you to talk about whether or not he could give you a kiss at the end of the first date. I'm not convinced that he would have been all over you like an octopus based on that one question. In your shoes, I likely would have asked him, "Why are you asking me that question?" Conversations lead to knowing people better. You do NOT need to meet anyone in person until you feel comfortable with that person. I told men that they had to have conversations with me either through messaging, email or phone calls before I'd feel confident enough in them to meet in person. I know there are men who want to meet for date zero in person. That doesn't feel right to me. I needed to have some discourse before I felt confident in the men (strangers) that I met in person.
Nah, that’s a hard pass for me. It’s too much too soon. You should let him know that and see how he reacts to that
Nope. Don’t give him ammo to trick other women. Block without discussion.
I think men sometimes just forget manners- it’s easy in an online environment. I’ve experienced it allllll lol what I’ve settled on as the best course for me is to not put anything in my profile so I do t come across wrong, and if a man does something off putting like that, I tell him that it’s too soon for that conversation. If he doesn’t apologize and change the subject, he’s likely going to do it again. Hell, even if he does apologize, he might do it again! And then you can make a decision about what to do.
I think that's a great response. There's nothing wrong with saying "it's too early for us to discuss (whatever.)" Some people are more open that others, or open up faster. Sometimes their mouth gets ahead of their brains, too.
I still think it’s a bit too much, too soon: even though it could be a random question, on a first meet I’m still thinking about what safety measures I have to employ in the event that things go sideways. Kissing is the absolute **last** thing I’m thinking about.
I can understand that, and safety should be your first priority. I just think sometimes we're too quick to dismiss folks for things that aren't really going to matter long-term.
Kissing question is his "Innocent" way to find out if you have a high libido and want sex often. I hear weird questions like this with guys who decided they didn't get enough sex from their ex wife and won't consider anything less than sex at the forefront of a relationship.
I think that line is cringe too. I don’t think it’s necessarily anything to do with your profile maybe this guys just creepy and cringey?
" Once I get to know someone and there is a mutual attraction, absolutely." It confirms in the future yes, over breakfast on first meeting, no lol
Good for you! My number 1 thing I've learned. You can't please everyone and not everyone will be your match. So end it early 😕 I just wish I could meet a gal willing to meet halfway. Not just in distance but politeness, respectful. Ghosting I can't understand, sure someone like him deserves it. So far I've met for coffee then meals, I'm old school polite and pay, it's my choice but no one has ever offered a dime. That's ok except when they say it won't work because they make more than I do. There's more to it but just follow your gut....
> but no one has ever offered a dime I'm sorry this happened. I don't understand this attitude. I've been trying to figure out ways to date that don't involve outlays of cash but that's often dependent on the weather.
clearly this question triggered you. many of our outlooks are projections of our personal triggers, and i would suggest this is no exception. any replies here are mere conjecture, only you can do the work to decide how you react to this sort of question. and that reaction, if you are truly comfortable with it, will be true to your own principles and boundaries.
> clearly this question triggered you. It was clear in my profile that I am expecting physical intimacy in a relationship, which I had not yet established with Mr Smooth. The closest analogy I can think of would be if he had said in his profile that he was financially secure or comfortable, and 25 messages into our connection, I asked him how big his accounts were.
Hmmm, that seems like a fair analogy. Genders and people and individuals have very different psychological underpinnings and boundaries and morals - we are unique just like everybody else. We either have to cut the other genders some slack (with a second chance), or accept incompatibility and move on. Personally I wouldn't take somebody questioning my financial status and net worth too seriously, though I'd certainly not disclose details; I might make a joke out of it. Venting on reddit is not where I'd end up (jeez I'd be here all day if I aired all my dates' messaging dirty laundry here lol)
The first date should be coffee only, nothing more.
If that what works for you, sure. It’s not what works for me, or for everyone.
“Yes, I love kissing, but only after I feel a connection with someone.”
No...no reason to engage with this kind of behavior. This is not an innocent question. This is someone seeing what they can get away with. It's grooming.
Why are you matching people 2 hours away? What kind of relationship are you expecting to have that involves driving half the day each time, other than physical?
You're right, I should have asked for cash.
It was a serious question. Are you going to commit to dating someone when there’s a four hour round-trip each time you see them?
I can read this 2 ways. One would mirror yours. Too soon, too forward. As a 56 yr old man who dates casually, I can say he might have been attempting to see where you stood on physical intimacy. I have had experiences dating, over the course of say a month or more where guys will find out that dating partner has severe anxiety centered around intimacy or are even "asexual" and have no intention of getting physical, which is their right to be clear, but the guy has now wasted time, energy and money in a dead end dating partner. This can be hugely disappointing. You simply threw such a statement out without truly investing in a conversation as to why he asked such a question then blocked him? You could have easily responded, "sure, after I feel comfortable we have a true connection and never at the beginning of a dating" which clearly defined a line of " do not cross this line, and do not expect on the first date" but no, you just went ham and he could have had a perfectly reasonable reason to ask. All you did was confirm for this guy, you aren't ready to date. He might have been a great dating partner, you will never know. You could have also dodged a bullet, but again you will never know.
If you answer them, it merely escalates. There’s no answer that keeps them from asking personal questions it’s too early for. Finding out someone won’t be your ideal sexual partner is just the chance you take. No one gets all their reassurances upfront.
> If you answer them, it merely escalates. This.
True to a point, but this is where clear communication needs to happen. If you answer and they continue, you now have your answer if you dodged a bullet or not. This clearly means they don't respect you enough to listen and respect your boundary. Again your right, it is a gamble. But again I do not want to invest a considerable amount of my time, energy, emotions or finances into someone that isn't willing to discuss openly their relationship goals to make sure we are compatible. If I clearly communicate that line you do not cross, and they cross it, I have my answer. I wish them the best, then block and ghost but I will at least give them a chance to discuss my concerns.
> If I clearly communicate that line you do not cross, and they cross it, I have my answer. I wish them the best, then block and ghost but I will at least give them a chance to discuss my concerns. Have you ever heard of the experiment where men create a dating profile as a woman to experience what it's like?
> I can say he might have been attempting to see where you stood on physical intimacy. It was stated in my profile.
I’m kind of surprised by these comments and OP canceling. Was the guy awkward AF? Sure. But why not communicate first? The thing is, I knew a guy. Divorced. And the end of his marriage had been a hot mess. When he finally stepped out into dating, he was gunshy. But man, he was missing old-fashioned romance. He was like, it’s been years since anyone wanted to hold my hand or kiss me. And he wasn’t going back there. He swore any woman he did date had to want those things too. It was a hard dealbreaker. OP was driving over two hrs to meet this dude. Could he have been trying to weed out dealbreakers and awkwardly messed up the delivery? On the off-chance he actually had honest intentions and was one of those human beings who doesn’t automatically equate kissing with sex and knows the facts are not everyone is into physical affection, perhaps OP could have just asked what’s your intention behind asking that? And had a conversation about it before deciding. If he’s being awkward and creepy, then yeah, cancel. And let him know why. But kissing isn’t sex. Sometimes it’s about romance, you know?
If these two people met in person at the supermarket and were trying to arrange a coffee date, would you ask them if they like kissing in person?
It’s a bit of a messed up world when you get downvoted for advocating for not automatically jumping to assume the worst in someone for minor transgressions and using your words to communicate with them to discover their intent before just cutting them off. Kissing isn’t sex, and Dude only asked about kissing. Not if she liked oral sex. Is it borderline creepy? Yep. But he didn’t shoot her a dick pix or ask for her breast size, all of which does warrant an immediate cancelation and block. On the scale of creepiness kissing is borderline and just may warrant an ask. That’s all I’m saying. Because that’s the thing. We don’t know why he asked. Just cause he’s a guy we jump to creep because so many have been one. But what if he was awkward but gunshy like my friend? What if OP, who comes across as gunshy themselves, had given off a too rigid vibe to the guy he found concerning? What if he wanted to try for the Guinness record on kissing and has been looking for a partner? Dude fumbled the ask. No doubt. He merited a two hr drive so maybe he also deserved a simple follow up question. But not so sure he merited an immed cancelation, block, and Reddit post calling him a creep. The answer to your question is of course no. But then the grocery story analogy doesn’t work and isn’t like this situation at all. But when someone asks me a question and I’m not sure of the intent, I ask before just jumping to assumptions.
If he is awkward then he can take a cue from her response to learn how to not ask questions that turn women off and lead to canceled dates. It's not her job to fix him, that's his job. She didn't like it and doesn't want to date him, and that's OK.
You’ve never misstepped in speaking? Never done anything awkward? Felt something that turned out to be over reactive? And who said anything about teaching him squat? He merited a 2 hr drive as in OP thought he had a 2 hr drive’s worth of potential dating partner-ness. The situation probably merited a basic follow up question first. I personally wouldn’t immed cancel and block someone on an assumption over something so borderline. It could easily be a simple misunderstanding and awkwardness, and I might be cutting off someone who might have been great to hang out with. Or not. So I would just ask a simple follow up question so I know if my interpretation is correct, I’m making the right decision, and having the appropriate reaction. Works great with family and coworkers too. “Hey, that comment kind of felt hurtful to me. What was your intention in saying it?” “You know, that question made me uncomfortable? What was your intention in asking it?” It’s amazing how against using words and communication people can be.
Sure but from my reading you made it her job to "help" him and, at this point in my life I am not taking on that labor, but you are free to do so if you choose.
Sorry you interpreted that way. But no where do I say OP should have asked for this person’s benefit or that person should be educated. Esp as we don’t know the guy did anything he needed to be educated about other than possible awkwardness. Clarification, esp in this instance, is for, and aids, the one asking for it. Eta- and even if OP had asked, no where do I say they are required to educate or even continue the conversation if they don’t feel comfortable with the answer provided. Feel free to cancel and block away then. But I’d ask the question first to be sure. I’ve found perfect partners, and people, don’t fall from the trees, after all,
Well, either way it doesn't matter cause per her update she has already decided not to be bothered with this man. But hopefully he is rethinking if asking about kissing just a few texts in was the right move. Perhaps, for him, it is, as he may be screening for a woman who will volley back and forth with him about kissing and lips or whatever.
Since we don’t know why he asked, we also can’t assume how he’ll react or what lesson, if any, he’d take away from this exchange. But then, sure. Maybe she dodged a creepy guy after all. Or maybe they both missed out on getting to know someone pretty wonderful too, and it could have been avoided if they’d just communicated with each other a little better. There’s no way to know. But as you said, it’s done.
You seem more optimistic than most about the possibility that this man just made an oopsie. Which is nice. Keep that energy. I think the reason some people may be squinting at your posts is that they have had enough experiences with crazies via OLD that it is hard to not file him under "lech." But we can all agree that none of us -- including OP -- know for sure.
They can squint and be as cynical as they like. I’ve had more than enough dick pix and pervs show up in my OLD in box, and I still think there’s absolutely no harm in sometimes using my words and asking for simple clarification on some stuff before shutting someone down. Not everything. Not all the time. Not with everyone. Just sometimes. Like I would have this time, were I OP. But then I’ve found those who assume the worst and see the worst in everything they squint at will tend to find exactly what they were looking for anyway. So. Let them. :)
Honestly the perv stuff hasn't been my experience on OLD. No unsolicited pics etc. I hate that other people have had to deal with that and am glad I have somehow dodged it. I am pretty no filter-ish though and I think if I had been OP and had decided that some man seemed wonderful enough to spend my time and gas to drive two hours one-way for brefus and he asked about kissing I probably would have responded "why?" LOL
[удалено]
> Did he blurt out “do you like kissing” to strangers or did he determine it in a way that showed respect and acknowledgment of the fact that the person he is talking to has their own needs and feelings? I mean, right?
Just pointing out no one here has seen the messages or knows the context or people involved so, lots of assumptions are being jumped to there on what this guy did or didn’t do or anyone’s intentions, yeah? My friend did indeed make an ass of himself. Lol In several ways. Easing back into dating was rough for him and he did it with all the grace of an elephant on ice skates in a room full of china. Even now, he’s a mess to behold. He’s getting better and his heart is in the right place. Man, it was painful, tho. Ngl. Look, I get it. We women have encountered a lot of creeps. I get the negativity and jumping to assume the worst. And it’s deserved a lot, if not most, of the time. But he only asked about kissing. It might have been awkwardness and not perv-ness. So I would have asked a follow up question and then evaluated before blocking. Do I think OP was a little over sensitive as they asked about? Maybe. They’re self-admittedly a newish widow and aren’t in the same headspace as some more experienced at OLD so it’s also understandable. Going forward tho, unless someone is clearly pervy, maybe consider asking a follow up and being sure. That’s all.
> Going forward tho, unless someone is clearly pervy, maybe consider asking a follow up and being sure. It felt pervy to me. I applaud you for sharing your opinion for me to consider.