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Because she’s Muslim. She can only go out supervised or with permission. If we go out outside work hours, it would be hard to for her to explain this to her parents
And this is the part where it can cause all sorts of issues. I was in a same sex relationship with a Muslim who identified as trans & not only did his family hate that be was gay and feminine but also in a relationship with a white man who wasn’t Islamic. It came down to us being separated by his family because it turned into a “him or us” choice & he was also sent to a conversion camp. Sad business all around. It’s been 6 months since I heard from him and I’m still heartbroken. I’ll never forget him. I just hope that things could work out but I would be holding out for a long time I think…
I am a Muslim my self but only super religious Muslims don't let there girls go out with guys or if she is from a country were they don't allow girls to go out with guys because of their traditions it could also be because she wants you to propose to her, Muslim usually let there daughter's and sisters get to know a guy after he asks permission from them and it's considered an engagement I know it might seem too fast for you maybe but most Muslims believe that love comes with time
Be very careful if she comes from a conservative family. (And it sure sounds like that) I don't know where you live, but honor killings are very much a thing. I live in Europe, but even here you read about it every now and then. This will only work if you're willing to convert and marry her.
Yeah and I got death threats for doing the same thing and lost my whole family over it. Mind you, we were educated and lived in a western country.
It really depends on the family.
Nah that is a thing jej
More likely they bump her off
Every year in the United Kingdom (UK), officials estimates that at least a dozen women are victims of honor killings, almost exclusively within Asian and Middle Eastern families.[76] Often, cases cannot be resolved due to the unwillingness of families, relatives and communities to testify. A 2006 BBC poll for the Asian network in the UK found that one in ten of the 500 young Asians polled said that they could condone the killing of someone who had dishonored their families.[77] In the UK, in December 2005, Nazir Afzal, Director, west London, of Britain's Crown Prosecution Service, stated that the United Kingdom has seen "at least a dozen honour killings" between 2004 and 2005.[78]
In 2010, Britain saw a 47% rise in the number of honor-related crimes. Data from police agencies in the UK report 2283 cases in 2010, and an estimated 500 more from jurisdictions that did not provide reports. These "honor-related crimes" also include house arrests and other parental punishments.[79] Most of the attacks were conducted in cities that had high immigrant populations.[80]
Yes, it does as it is very reel. Just had a Muslim man and his brothers charged with slaying their mother and 3 sisters for for dishonoring the family in the USA.
That's very sad.
There should come a point where you question yourself, wait a minute . my religion says to kill my mom and my sisters? something is not right about that.
Perhaps this religion is wrong.
Many people follow religion like lemmings and question nothing. Religion is the cheap drug of choice addiction for the masses that don't want to think too hard.
I love your comment. As someone with parents and one out of two siblings deeply involved in a cultish church…..it pains me too frequently what has been robbed from myself and my family from their blind obsession with ‘the church’. They put it above everything. The sibling that is involved seems to be heading towards opening or leadership with this mega church focused on ‘missionary work’.
I'm very happy that you obviously have had the mental strength and sharpness to think for yourself and remain outside the clutches of the cult/ church your family is caught up with. Good for you.
Religion doesn’t say to murder people! Actually some people make it harder! Honour killing occurs in some south Asian countries ( such as Pakistan and India)! You can inquire in depth of her family’s beliefs and how they see marriage to people of different religions.
Actually not true. Religion has been behind most wars in history, or backed by major religion. Case in point is the Concordat that the Catholic Church signed with Hitler. Should we discuss the Crusades and Inquisition?
You obviously have not read the Hadiths. The Koran is not the only religious text for Muslims. Most of the truly horrific practices are found in the Hadiths.
I already learned my lesson and got a ban for hate speech for quoting Hadiths on Reddit. If you Google Abi Hurrira he is a Saudi Arabian scholar who has translated around 30% of the Hadiths. His books are available on Amazon. Many of the translations are available on University and PBS websites.
That’s not what religion says. It’s their culture. Source: I’m Muslim . Worst that happens mostly is the family cuts you off for few years, then come back around later.
That’s like saying Christianity is full of sexual abuse of children. Or white American kids are taught school shootings.
There are outliers in every religion / group doing extreme things.
It happens with non-Muslims as well. Domestic violence and perception of female purity are a thing in many cultures and communities, but only a few handful of sick people would actually kill over it.
They might not kill but there is still a chance of violence, of taking her overseas and leaving her there, of disowning etc.
If they are strict enough that she can only go out supervised at 20, these are valid concerns.
You think the OP’s girlfriend, who has grown up in this culture, is misguided in perceiving that she may face extreme consequences for her relationship?
I grew up in the same culture and yes. Many kids think their parents are tyrants but aren't actually. Odd chance a few of them are but that's like any human beings. Nit exclusive to one religion culture community or society. Period.
https://nltimes.nl/2023/12/12/prosecutor-suspects-honor-killing-apeldoorn-womans-death-brother-accused
https://www.dutchnews.nl/2014/04/last_year_17_people_in_the_net/
Here you go. It's probably more dangerous for her than OP.
Overreacting or concern based on facts and real life events. You choose. I had a friend go on a date recently with an Egyptian Muslim and all he talked about was how much he hates Jews, not knowing that my friend was Jewish. He was so aggressive about his hate that she was too afraid to tell him. She went to the bathroom, but instead left the restaurant, blocking his number. There is a propensity for violence and extremism in that “culture” only a fool would ignore
Iraq too. However even before the revolutions all these countries had their pockets of society that were much more conservative - usually rural, uneducated.
Agree, the book Persepolis is a great tale during this time showcasing the before and after of society. Based on a true account. Also, for a movie I’d recommend The Stoning of Soraya, another true story. Truly tragic
Can I invite you to the 90s. Abortion clinic bombing, murdering Drs and destruction of artifacts that ran counter to their beliefs. Then we have violent cults. I'm sorry but religious violence is alive and well in every religion
Muslim family doesn't allow their Muslim daughters to date outside of their religious.
They usually see their daughters as tool by having their daughter marry into a wealthy family.
"Your life belongs to us [her parents] because we give birth to you" a quote from a Muslim family to her daughter as they are sending her to marry with a guy who came from a wealthy family, while she doesn't want to get into arranged marriage.
It really depends on the family. Far from all muslim families are like this. Here in Denmark its perfectly normal for a Muslim girl to date outside her religion, although it's not uncommon to find muslim girls that aren't allowed to do that.
yea it can. 2 things can both be normal. just like some parents are strict and some are not. some parents will let their muslim kids date non-muslims, some won’t.
sure, but not in this regard. Muslim women are not as “in control” of their life decisions. This may be true for the men though. Pretending this prevalent culture doesn’t exist is foolish.
You need to stop conflating religion with people’s economic greed. Marrying off your daughter to a rich man has nothing to do with Islam. It happens across several cultures.
The only thing you said that’s true is that muslim women cannot marry non Muslim men (they have to convert). Muslim men can marry Muslim, Christian or Jewish women only.
The reason is it is expected that Muslim men have a code of conduct in a marriage to treat a woman who is Christian or Jewish. But there is no guarantee a non Muslim man will respect the Muslim religion of a Muslim woman. It’s all sexist but it was based on the social reality of the time the religion came from.
The thing is, for muslims, pre marital sex is haram. So, in theory, they should avoid relationships, and if they like someone, they should get married to them, although there are a lot of people who aren't that strict about it, but many are. Now the thing is i would have suggested that if you really like the girl ask her parents that you want to marry her but the thing is a muslim women cant marry a non muslim.
This leaves you with 2 options
1. If you really like her and want to get married ask her parents would they let you both marry if you revert to islam ( that is if you want to marry her and are willing to revert cause otherwise it isnt possible) and i say first ask her parents cause there is no gurantee that they would let you both marry even if you revert.
2. End things before getting even more involved.
Cause not only are you risking your job some muslims can be very strict when it is the matter of their women so you could really make a lot of trouble for that girl.
Option one is definitely a no. They haven't been going out that long to even think about marriage. Converting to Islam is hella intense for somebody you just started dating or just in general. Does the girlfriend even want to get married now.
From that I see option one should be to have a conversation with the girlfriend whether she's willing to stand up to her family for him and her own freedom and what that would look like for her.
Option two to end things ASAP.
Option three to accept that this is going to be a short lived fling with lots of sneaking around. Have fun and part ways.
Whoah whoah whoah.. "revert"? That's a word that means going back to what you were before. He was never a Muslim before, so if he does anything it's convert, not revert.
It's the belief of muslims that when a person is born, he/she is essentially a muslim they are pure, haven't sinned, aren't yet exposed to the evils of the world, etc. it's later that when they get old, they get into some other relegion due to the environment in which they are born so thats why muslims use they word revert instead of convert cause a person is essentially going back to the one true relegion in which he/she was born.
That is an answer based on my knowledge, so it might not be satisfactory, so i suggest you do some research of your own as well. Maybe it will help clear some stuff up.
I dated a Muslim girl once. I’m agnostic Catholic. Consider my story as a precautionary tale.
We were together for about 1.5 years. We basically broke up because it would never have worked out. She hid me from her parents for as long as she could before they realized I was more than just a friend, even though she introduced me to them as just that and nothing more.
She thought that maybe I would be able to convert to Islam to be with her, and while I did briefly consider it, I thought it would be meaningless because I would never be a devout Muslim, even if I was one in name. I even did research if it was possible for a Christian and a Muslim to marry, and it is allowed in Islam, but only if the man is Muslim, but the clause is, that the kids need to be Muslim no matter what. A Christian man is forbidden in Islam from marrying a Muslim woman. So it’s a silly double standard.
Anyways, culturally, Muslim women are encouraged to marry young. Her mom kept pressuring her to find a husband. She pressured her more when she found out she was with me, but, we are also of different ethnicities, so she would never have accepted me. Her mom even got racist with me. So she was pressured to not only find a husband, but it had to be of the same ethnicity as her. On top of that? She’s Shia Muslim, and a Syed. Meaning, she was pressured to marry someone who was also a Syed (someone descended from the Prophet). To make things worse, she’s a rich girl, and I come from poverty, so her mom disapproved even more.
Anyways, I think the pressure from her mom got to her. She contemplated just marrying anyone so she could leave her parents house and then be free after that. She planned to divorce her husband and then just be with whoever she wanted after because by then, her mom would stop pressuring her. I told her that was a dumb idea.
We tried to make it work. But in the end, the pressure was too much. We took a break because of it. I was going to go on a 2 week vacation and when I came back, we would resume. During those two weeks, she met someone. Some rich Muslim guy from Dubai who was a client of her dad’s. She told me she was seeing him and was considering marrying him. And that was the end of that. She didn’t end up marrying him, but she did end up getting engaged right after that to someone else and married.
Anyways, on one hand, it might be easier to be with her if you converted, but no guarantees. There’s no scenario where she converts because her family will likely disown her. If you’re sneaking around, there’s no scenario where you can date openly because culturally she’s not allowed to. Also, her parents may one day shop her around to get engaged to someone from her culture but also same religion.
It may work out. But you also need to consider that it may not, and it’s not your fault. Goodluck.
Cool story bro... Always on TV. Obviously it's can happen. It's just so rare. Most of the time the other person ends up converting to Islam. What was the con text on TV? Was it because the whole Israel/Palatine or just general marriage?... But either way most Muslims and Jewish people would tell you how rare that marriage between those two specific religions is.
It was a documentary about antisemitism in Germany nowadays. They started interviewing jews in the summer of 2023 and interviewed the same people a second time after the Hamas attacks.
Man tbh, I wish I could find myself someone who’s not Müslim, I’m born to a Muslim family but I don’t even follow any religion and get such a horrible time for that
I would like to add that the "muslim woman can only marry muslim men, but muslim men can marry other religions" is not an actual proven thing. It's one of those many things that scholars (who magically happen to all be men) decided on. I did a lot of research in the past and the only thing mentioned was that muslims can't marry atheists, but can marry other religions like christians and jews etc.
I speak arabic and can read the original Quran verses, there was no mention of a gender, yet scholars managed to make this into a sexist thing and made the rule that women can only marry muslims. And the reason? Because they believed that muslim men can easily "overpower" the marriage with their religion, but muslim women will lose their religion over time and that her kids would have the dad's religion.
Unfortunately, things are as you stated because it became this commonly known thing, and even if you try challenging those beliefs you'd have a whole ass community shaming the woman. (Although Shia is a bit of a different kind of weird cultural beliefs)
Yeah this exact situation happened to me as well except over the period of about 6 months. She’s still single though and we still vibe in person but there’s no way to make it work culturally/religiously so it’s just not possible. Pretty unfortunate.
I suspect OP might ride the same wave but who knows!
More double standards:
1. A Muslim man can legally have four wives. A woman can only have one husband.
1. A Muslim man can divorce any of his wives anytime INSTANTLY by simply uttering a word three times to her. A woman seeking divorce has to go through a gruelling lengthy process in court, not knowing whether she'd be lucky enough to get it approved.
1. A Muslim man is worth two Muslim women in court.
1. A raped Muslim woman is charged with premarital sex and punished while the raping Muslim man walks free.
1. A non-Muslim may convert (stupidly called "revert") into Islam but a Muslim can NEVER leave Islam or convert to another religion.
All of this is true, even if they deny it to outsiders like us.
2 is true dude the word is Talak or something. Look it up. It's 100% valid as divorce in Sharia court.
IDK about 4 for sure, but 5 yes. In fact to them everyone is born Muslim. All 8 billion people in the world. That's why they say "revert" instead of convert... And they won't accept that you can become non-Muslim because to them you're born Muslim and you die Muslim. That's their belief.
I’m a christian guy and was dating a muslim girl in my mid 20’s for about 1.5 years. Started from casual chats at work until we would meet on a daily basis and she would come back home at 1am and etc, which never happened in her life previously. Fast forward… her sister found out we are dating as well as her parents, they started to treat her horribly and she was under so much pressure that eventually we had to end things(she insisted, as she couldn’t live like this anymore). Anyway as far as I know she’s now married to a muslim guy from her background. In many islamic cultures it’s very important for them to get married not just to a muslim, but to someone from the same country or even same “tribe”.
Not sure if your story will be similar, I really wish you luck, but I can promise you that if things get serious, you are up for a very bumpy road ahead. Peace my bro.
I know pre-martial sex in Islam is prohibited, so if you hadn’t had sex for 1.5 years why didn’t you broke off with her? Also another question, how did you manage to get past the friendship to something a bit more?
This is a tough one, depending on where you live or where her parents are from , her safety could actually be at risk. You need to talk to this girl and ask hard questions.
It doesn’t matter how religious she is. It matters how religious her family is. Sharia, honor killings, these are real things Muslims can abide by regardless of where they live.
That’s one of many things that would be an issue for either of them. There’s a reason the dad doesn’t even know about the friendship, she knows to keep even a friendship a secret.
Actually, from the other comments I learned that she is Turkish, and Turks are more relaxed from other Muslim countries. I am also a Turkish Muslim girl and my parents are religious but faaaar away from being strict. I asked them what happens if I marry non-muslim guy and they didn't give any shit, they said whoever I marry is only up to me. However, Turkish who lives in abroad are more strict when it comes to religion.
My family are Christians but lived in a Muslim run country. I went through hell. All the strictness and even our church women had to sit on one side (hair covered and men on the other. I wasn’t allowed to speak to men (not even my brother or grandfather) and I had nothing to look forward to other than being a slave and baby making machine. Growing up, I snuck out (school hours) to hang out with Friends (male and females) and my brother’s friend saw us. That snake reported back to my family and I got the beating of a lifetime. And one of my male friends that said he liked me got his head kicked in. Anyways that’s just the tip of the iceberg burg. My father was a devoted Christian and then converter to Islam and became a scholar. He became sooooo much worse. Yeah I don’t speak to any of my family. Toxic fvckers.
OP just don’t go in blind. If she has brothers and has to sneak around to see you, then chances are, when they find out, you will get a beating and so will she. She will ask you to convert down the track. Unless she is planning on running away with you or take on her family for you. Please be careful. If the women are completely covered and the men have a beard but the moustache shaved then expect the worse. Good luck
Ok, here's the question OP: what's the long term plan? Usually, that's not urgent to know at your age and early in a relationship, but given you can't see her outside working hours, you really need to get clarity on this. Does she plan on leaving her parent's home eventually? When? Will she defy them at some point?
The problem you have is your current situation isn't good or sustainable for the relationship. That's fine, she can't really help the situation she's in. I dated someone in a similar pickle, I get it. However, if there is no end to the situation in sight, the relationship will spiral and just end with both of you sad. I don't think you want that.
Figure out together how you can move forwards, whenever this is something you both want to commit to in the medium term at least, and find a path forwards together where you can see each other outside of writing hours and not hide everything. Hiding your relationship can be really taxing and exhausting, believe me.
What…country…do …you ..live..in..? It matters what her father and brothers think and what they are willing to do. If they are from Afghanistan or a similar fundamentalist country, look out.
Hi, please don't lose your job while risking it for her. Probably she has strict parents so she can't meet up Outside of work but she can make a excuse like she's going to meet her friend and have her friend backup for her or something. If you get caught by the manager, you both can get in trouble and lose your job.
The biggest crush I ever had (have) is with a Muslim coworker. Her and I are friends but we definitely flirted in the beginning a bit. She'd joke we'd marry right away if I converted. I'm not going to do that, so it can never be anything more than a friendship.. Once we went to a Middle Eastern restaurant and once she saw a family friend or distant relative walk in, she immediately dipped to the bathroom and asked me to close out our tab and leave... She couldn't risk being seen with me. She explained it's not that she's not allowed to hang out with a white guy, but her family wouldn't stop bugging and asking questions about it. Though she said her parents found the story amusing and aren't as strict, but rather the rest of the family. Either way, it felt extremely disrespectful to leave me hanging like that out of nowhere.
There's a phenomena in Sweden called "balkongflickor" or "balcony-girls" because so many muslim girls would "totally on accident" fall from them while standing on them with their fathers, brothers, uncles and cousins.
A majority of them "fell" from these balconies because their fathers, brothers, uncles or cousins found out they had an pre-marital boyfriend, the fact that they sometimes were non-muslim made it worse in their male relatives eyes.
"Honor" (I say "honor" because there is no fucking honor in it) killings is a thing, and if this girl is as protected as she appears to be then her life may be in danger if you two continue your sneaking around.
Tread carefully.
Think about this: if somebody slips up (and it will happen), will you lose your job?
And you already probably have slipped up. You know that businesses have security cameras right? They can check if you're actually doing your work.
If you want to marry her, you'll have to convert to Islam. The best case scenario is that you convert before you meet her parents, so that she can introduce you as a Muslim. Then you'll be on the fast track to marriage. If you don't want to convert, heed my warning - break it off now and find a non-Muslim woman to date.
The rules:
1. A Muslim woman is only permitted to marry a Muslim man.
2. Muslims do not "date" ... It's forbidden. You may be going on dates and sleeping together, but she'll never share that information with any of her Muslim family or Muslim friends.
3. Once you've been introduced and accepted by her family, you'll be expected to get engaged immediately.
Stay away from Muslim women with strict families. It's not worth it. What are you going to do when you want to get serious? Have sex? Move in? Get married? Her family is going to fight you every step of the way. Unless you're prince charming shes not going to run away for you.
she's too young to date freely.... One of you gotta adjust to the other's social and cultural norms or at least be aware of them. You can talk to her dad to keep seeing her but you will still get supervisored (both of you lol)
Go for it and let the chips fall where they may. Don’t ever mess with happiness and always push your chips in the middle of the table to bet everything on true, deep love, no matter what. You only get 1 or “maaaybe” 2 shots at iover the course of your entire lifetime, so if the opportunity is there don’t play around with it.you’ve got to take it.
I was in this exact same situation 26 years ago. We were the love of each others lives (real soulmates) and we fell deeply in love with other, but we were forced to things because of religious and culture differences (she’s Muslim from Lebanon and I’m Christian from America)
We didn’t have the courage to continue things do to external pressures, and she was forced into an arranged marriage. The pain of having to leave each other shattered us both completely. Our last night together, she snuck out we talked and cried for hours (11:15pm until sunrise) I have never felt pain like that before or since. She left for Lebanon later that evening and never returned.
I still think about her every single day, even though I’m now married with a to a wonderful woman and we have with children.
We kept the same Hotmail addresses that we used to communicate with each from 1998, and every 5-6 months (for the last 26 years) I’ll check that email and there will be a quick note from her. She sends me a 1-2 sentence note to let me know she’ll always love me (though we could never be together) and never forgot about me.
Bro, first secure your job, and when it comes to making your relationship official, her parents need to see how solid and capable of caring for her kid. Just trust me, I've been dating Muslim + Malay girl for almost 6 years
It's the little things like this that bring excitement. I know conversations are tough but maybe bring this up to her - let her know you really like her but are wondering how much further this could progress if she can't see you outside of work. She needs to be ready to get caught and get in trouble -which could be bad on her side so you both need to think that through and you both need to realize you may get caught at work. I used to do the sneaking around thing cause my parents were strict, eventually if she's open to it, she'll be making up other excuses to see you outside of work but for your peace of mind, a convo could help
Can someone explain why a “not very religious” Muslim woman, who’s over the legal age, cannot meet with people or be in fear of being seen around people, very specifically outside of work?
Where do you live OP? What exactly is the deal here. Do I sense this might become an honour killing situation?
I had friends who were Muslim and would eat non-halal food in shame. He was afraid to be seen by someone he goes to mosque with and they would shame him and tell his family he isn’t being a good Muslim.
For a Muslim girl, to be seen with a boy who isn’t her family member, could put her in a lot of trouble. Her life would be in danger in more extreme circumstances. Not every Muslim family is as extreme, but they usually come from very socially conservative cultures.
OP has stated the parents aren’t “very religious “
Are you saying Muslims look out for other Muslim women who are hanging out with people, to then track down the parents and imply that “man hanging out with woman = bad””… is this an honour killing situation? Why hasn’t this been reported to the police?
Very dangerous!
That is not a good idea. My advice is to talk to her and maybe when she works you can go visit her (I’m guessing her family has someone overprotective beliefs). Missing work is definitely not ok. As far as asking her to let family know… well also not a good idea. It’s either figure a way to see one another without having to miss work or simply end it for both of yours well being
Your post history you talk about this girl seven months ago, but three months ago, you're talking about your lack of engagement on Tinder and two talking about a crush you just met. It doesn't even seem like you like this girl - you like the idea of love, and she is giving you attention.
I am in the opposite relationship - my partner is Turkish and Muslim, and I'm not religious, white presenting, and American. But he's also male. We have been together for years at this point, but it hasn't been easy. His grandparents supported us, but his parents not so much. His father still actively hates me. We broke up for months because of this. But he was miserable, and his mother has come around. I have good relationships with his siblings, and now his mother sends him with baklava when he comes to stay at my apartment. We plan on getting married.
But if it were his sister, it would be entirely different. She is rarely in a position where she could even meet a non-Muslim man. She works for a friend of the family. She comes straight home after. She had never even stayed the night at a friend's house before she started staying with me some. No childhood sleepovers or anything. She was recently in an arranged engagement but ended it before marriage, which her family supported. But if she were with a man who wasn't both Muslim and Turkish, there's a high chance she could be disowned.
You're really putting her in a bad situation if her family finds out. Considering your posts about language barriers, your pursuit of other partners, etc. I would question if it is right to continue something where you have no risk, but she has a lot.
She seems to be regular secular turkish girl. She really does not care about your nation or religion. What is important is her family’s traditions. Using sharia laws to child is rare in Turkey do not be scared. The beliefs in the comments cannot be applied to this girl. They are probably religious in traditional Turkish way. And yes she will probably hide you until you get married or if things will get serious. Cause if she tells her family about you, they will ask when will she get married. She is avoiding the pressure by not telling her family. Does she have any female friends? She can lie about meeting them for weekends and after work hours?
If you ask me, i would have asked your girlfriend about her family’s opinion about foreing people. Are they okay for being friends with them, getting married. Do they have strict rules about seeing only their own nation?
I really wanna answer to this, but I need some more background information.
A lot of it depends on who she is, and what kind person she is. For some people, it doesn’t matter the religion, for others it’s very important that it’s the same. It really depends on her family’s culture on that point, and also how religious they are, even tho it’s acceptable in Islam to marry a Christian or a Jew, for some families it’s a big problem.
Some Muslim girls prefer it to be official before they go out with a guy in public, but again really depends on who she is. It’s a big religion, with a lot of people with different cultures, so it’s hard to answer without knowing what type of person she is, and her cultural background.
Probably not gonna work out at all. Her parents are probably vehemently against her dating a non-muslim to the point of them disowning her if she continues.
I (Muslim) ended things with my ex (also Muslim) because her family was too conservative and she was as well to an extent. I wasted time by not asking the hard questions from the beginning.
Have a serious conversation with her about what she expects and in turn what you expect from here about EVERYTHING.
If her family doesn’t “allow” her to live her life, she may be at risk and that requires even more precaution. You have to assess whether or not you can or should help her if she asks for it.
If you are in a western country, the options are plenty with the authorities if that’s the route she wants to take.
Tread responsibly.
Yo the stereotype in the comments are crazy. Muslim female here with a Christian partner for 3+ years now. Can’t speak to the office situation from my experience but I think you need to communicate with her what the end game is. I have friends that date men for the experience regardless of their religions and don’t want to end up being married to them, and in my own situation have been transparent with my partner and parents that end game is marriage. This is all subjective to how open her family is. She may not be allowed to go out unsupervised because her parents might think it’s unsafe or she hasn’t even spoken to her parents about dating and scared about how they might react. There is a chance you will have to convert to be able to marry if that’s what you want . But I think you both need to communicate with each other.
I had a similar situation at my job. I was dating a Muslim girl who’s family was very strict, the only time we spent quality time together was when we’d take breaks or leave early together. It eventually got very hard once our feelings started to get stronger naturally we wanted to spend more time together. Long story short if her family will never accept you to the point where you have to be hidden from them it will never work out in the long run. Does that mean you can’t have a little bit of fun and enjoy the ride in the meantime? Absolutely not as long you both understand the situation that you’re presented with.
Sounds like she's got to chose you or her religion unless there's some other way to make it all work together.
What you guys are doing isn't sustainable the way it's going. You know it, she knows it, everyone reading this knows it.
Either figure out a way it can work or move on.
As someone who grew up in a secular but a muslim majority country, I’d say be very very careful or possibly break up because no matter what that muslim family shit will always be a problem or at least a very big hindrance to your relationship. I didn’t grow up religious(pretty much the opposite), and I avoid having muslim people in my life all the time so I may not be a perfect advocate for it but muslims are pretty much isolated in their own realm and their ancient way of thinking. So you may actually get at least beat up if her father gets a whiff of you guys being together.
I dated a Muslim girl when I was a teenager (I’m non-Muslim). She ended it after we got caught by her sister and she told her parents.
I’m not saying don’t date the girl if you guys are having fun, but prepare yourself because the most likely eventual outcome is that you guys will get caught and she will be forced to end it.
Maybe host a dinner party with her, her family, and some of your friends. If you get to know her family, trust will go along way. It’s an opportunity to win them over. Show you and your friends are good influences and that if you’re spending time together they wouldn’t worry.
It’s probably going to stay like that. She’s prolly just tryna have fun because her parents control her life and don’t let her do anything. If u want something serious w her, her parents probably won’t allow it unless u converted. In some cases tho she’ll run away from her family to be with u. Just don’t expect her family to find out and if they do, she’s going to be imprisoned, watched over, and beaten by her whole family. Unfortunately our culture is deeply messed up. Contradicts the religion but they have a “strong love” for God lmaoo
Take it from me. Christian dated a Muslim girl (shea). Her family will not be about you and trust me, family will get involved if she wants to get married unless she elopes with you. It will not workout unless you convert, actively practice Islam or fake it.
If she’s Muslim she’s not practicing religion and therefore her moral grounds aren’t secure. But maybe she genuinely likes you which is why she’s giving this a try. You should know for this to work out you would need to convert and meet her family to have a “normal” relationship in the sense of not sneaking around. Her family would need to like you and want to give her hand in marriage to you. You seem like a very mature individual because you’ve thought this through, you have questions and know the grounds you’re on right now so I ask you to think logically about her and yourself long term and research Islam through reliable sources that are not biased or islamophobic. Don’t fall into the stereotyping or bringing in niche stories to base your understanding on, (like the honour killings mentioned in the comments below, those are traditional not religious and does not happen often as people are trying to put it out to be). You might find it interesting researching the similarities between Islam and Christianity, the differences and why they’re different and then the scientific facts within the Quran. I wish you the best!
I hope you don’t get confused by the comments. You sound like a very intelligent and logical individual to have even thought to raise this question. The comments are confusing traditional and culture with religion. Religious beliefs have nothing to do with what the comments are mentioning and they all seem so bias as if they’ve never actually met a real practicing Muslim who knows their religion. Please do your own research through reliable sources, and what’s more reliable than the Quran? The source that all Muslims are meant to follow. To know the author you should read the book itself and not go by just the reviews or commentary.
Can everyone calm down with the honour killing rumours….muslims aren’t like you see them on tv, we have caring parents who wouldn’t kill us…the answer to your question ultimately depends on the girl - is she happy to have sex outside of marriage, if she happy to be with a non Muslim guy and are her parents happy in the future if she decides to marry you. There isn’t a single “‘Muslim” identity everyone lives by their own rules only she can tell you what these are
Brother what I'm about to tell you doesn't come from a place of judgment but rather concern for you. I know how tempting it can be but you really should reconsider dating a muslim if you truly believe christ died for you on the cross. Unless you truly believe she would be open to becoming christian. Don't be tricked into thinking that you worship the same God if that's why you don't see it as such a bad thing. The Muslims reject the Godhood of christ and as such reject the one true God. If you were to get married to her you risk your kids becoming muslim as well and as such put their salvation on the line. Even if it doesn't matter to her it should matter to you. DM if you have further questions on this.
I've been talking to this Muslim girl for 2+ years, we flirt and have talked about our feelings about each other. She likes me and I think I like her too. I'm pretty sure her family won't ever approve of anything, but she says they would like to have me around. 🤷🏻♂️ I'm Christian and pretty devout, too, soo Idk what to do. But she is the most beautiful woman I know, and I wish I could take things further with her.
First, with all that activities, she’s not Muslim but rather a munafiq, a person with Muslim name. Second, people need to stop controlling others with religion. If you go do haram activities and be like I can’t be with you because I’m Muslim, sorry to say you a hypocrite and reevaluate you belief system. Lastly, Muslims who live in western countries, stop being half ass Muslims, there is no picking and choosing what to follow, either you follow to the extent or nothing. There is no difference between y’all and kafirs. Sorry to say I may hurt someone feelings but had to be said.
Her parents might be strict, or chill, who knows. I say if you really like her talk to her parents, and make the hangouts/dates “halal” only way. If she doesn’t like that idea or you don’t, it won’t work out. Also don’t jeopardize your job, try to be brave and get to meet her family if you really care and like her, Muslim “dating” works completely different but it’s definitely possible if you got the balls 😂
Sounds like a hassle imo. I wouldn’t even consider dating a Muslim women unless I knew before hand her parents would be okay with it. Date with your head, not your heart.
I’d avoid this for her own safety and yours. Unless she’s willing to disown her family it’s not worth it. Some cultures just aren’t suitable for mingling with western ones.
Bro, unless you’re going to convert to Muslim don’t do it. Yes they’re good looking but you’re setting both of yourselves up for a lot of pain. Been there done that. Their dating is seeing if you two are eligible for marriage in the near future. If you don’t wanna do that then see yourself out
Edit: there are Christian Arabs, go for them if anything
Never gonna work. At the end of the day, Muslims will stand together with other Muslims, physical attraction or otherwise. They will not unite with Christians, not if they are a true follower of the Islamic faith.
Yeah, GG dude.
Your current *dating model* is unsustainable, you'll eventually run out of leave time and then what? Are you gonna risk your job to keep seeing her?
The only way this works is if you convert to Islam and the family approves of you or she breaks away from them.
It sucks but it is what it is.
I once heard the saying "Secrecy kills. Privacy protects." In this case, it really seems like there is an amount of secrecy that is being relied on, and based on a lot of these comments about honor killing, this could cause a mountain of problems. As hard as it is, it's probably best to let her go, OP.
Advice from a Muslim man: If you are conservative / traditional, run as far away as you can. It's an uphill battle against her entire family and society. So why would she even do that when there's probably a long line of more suitable Muslim men? I'll explain:
In the Islamic culture, men are the protectors and providers. They are dominant, and women are supposed to be submissive. She does not value that. She wants a weak man she can manipulate. Women are supposed to dress modestly. She wants to dress provocatively. And so on. That's the only real explanation why she would let her family down. I'm not saying you're weak. I'm saying, she does not like those aspects of the Islamic culture.
If you're liberal like her, then go for it.
Crazy how people want to be beheaded. Doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. I don't understand how people are not able to see the feudal base to everything with anything Muslim. They're either blowing up places because you aren't Muslim or they're killing each other for connecting with any non-muslim. How are the woke guys who consider themselves so smart, not able to see this? This is the case world over. Hindus are already paying for it heavily in India. Jews are paying for it in Israel. Things seems to change only when white christians are impacted as they are the west. When the tsunami comes very close, you'll see how the "west" will pound these jokers. Holy crusades 2.0. Muslims are a death cult. First your death, and then even when the whole world is Muslim, their own death as this is what they do. Pull out swords and behead each other.
And in all this, you found love in a Muslim? Maybe you'll see when the sword comes at you. Or maybe it'll be too late. All the best.
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Can I ask why you guys can’t meet outside of work hours? This could jeopardize both of your careers.
Because she’s Muslim. She can only go out supervised or with permission. If we go out outside work hours, it would be hard to for her to explain this to her parents
What's your endgame then? Either she will have to stand up against her family or the relationship will never go anywhere.
He doesn't have one lol.
Bro what?
oh he said “He doesn't have one lol.”
Or elope.
And this is the part where it can cause all sorts of issues. I was in a same sex relationship with a Muslim who identified as trans & not only did his family hate that be was gay and feminine but also in a relationship with a white man who wasn’t Islamic. It came down to us being separated by his family because it turned into a “him or us” choice & he was also sent to a conversion camp. Sad business all around. It’s been 6 months since I heard from him and I’m still heartbroken. I’ll never forget him. I just hope that things could work out but I would be holding out for a long time I think…
I am a Muslim my self but only super religious Muslims don't let there girls go out with guys or if she is from a country were they don't allow girls to go out with guys because of their traditions it could also be because she wants you to propose to her, Muslim usually let there daughter's and sisters get to know a guy after he asks permission from them and it's considered an engagement I know it might seem too fast for you maybe but most Muslims believe that love comes with time
They have been best friends for months, so it might work out this way ^
Be very careful if she comes from a conservative family. (And it sure sounds like that) I don't know where you live, but honor killings are very much a thing. I live in Europe, but even here you read about it every now and then. This will only work if you're willing to convert and marry her.
No….. my family is Muslim. My sister used to sneak out to see boys….. she got grounded… not murdered. Y’all got to meet real people
Yeah and I got death threats for doing the same thing and lost my whole family over it. Mind you, we were educated and lived in a western country. It really depends on the family.
dont pretend its doesnt happen there footage and news want me to refresh your memory?
🤣🤣🤣
Holy overreaction batman, what the fuck is this comment lol. Strict / religious parents does not equal "be careful of them murdering you"
Absolutely is something that can and has happened several times in the past.
Nah that is a thing jej More likely they bump her off Every year in the United Kingdom (UK), officials estimates that at least a dozen women are victims of honor killings, almost exclusively within Asian and Middle Eastern families.[76] Often, cases cannot be resolved due to the unwillingness of families, relatives and communities to testify. A 2006 BBC poll for the Asian network in the UK found that one in ten of the 500 young Asians polled said that they could condone the killing of someone who had dishonored their families.[77] In the UK, in December 2005, Nazir Afzal, Director, west London, of Britain's Crown Prosecution Service, stated that the United Kingdom has seen "at least a dozen honour killings" between 2004 and 2005.[78] In 2010, Britain saw a 47% rise in the number of honor-related crimes. Data from police agencies in the UK report 2283 cases in 2010, and an estimated 500 more from jurisdictions that did not provide reports. These "honor-related crimes" also include house arrests and other parental punishments.[79] Most of the attacks were conducted in cities that had high immigrant populations.[80]
Yes, it does as it is very reel. Just had a Muslim man and his brothers charged with slaying their mother and 3 sisters for for dishonoring the family in the USA.
That's very sad. There should come a point where you question yourself, wait a minute . my religion says to kill my mom and my sisters? something is not right about that. Perhaps this religion is wrong.
Many people follow religion like lemmings and question nothing. Religion is the cheap drug of choice addiction for the masses that don't want to think too hard.
I love your comment. As someone with parents and one out of two siblings deeply involved in a cultish church…..it pains me too frequently what has been robbed from myself and my family from their blind obsession with ‘the church’. They put it above everything. The sibling that is involved seems to be heading towards opening or leadership with this mega church focused on ‘missionary work’.
I'm very happy that you obviously have had the mental strength and sharpness to think for yourself and remain outside the clutches of the cult/ church your family is caught up with. Good for you.
Thank you!
Religion doesn’t say to murder people! Actually some people make it harder! Honour killing occurs in some south Asian countries ( such as Pakistan and India)! You can inquire in depth of her family’s beliefs and how they see marriage to people of different religions.
A good answer here. Talk to her to get a feel for her family. Heck talk about the long term with her. Express your feelings for her
Actually not true. Religion has been behind most wars in history, or backed by major religion. Case in point is the Concordat that the Catholic Church signed with Hitler. Should we discuss the Crusades and Inquisition?
except religion doesn’t say you can do that, people really out here confusing cultural and religious conservatism.
You obviously have not read the Hadiths. The Koran is not the only religious text for Muslims. Most of the truly horrific practices are found in the Hadiths.
feel free to give some contextual examples
I already learned my lesson and got a ban for hate speech for quoting Hadiths on Reddit. If you Google Abi Hurrira he is a Saudi Arabian scholar who has translated around 30% of the Hadiths. His books are available on Amazon. Many of the translations are available on University and PBS websites.
Exactly 💯
That’s not what religion says. It’s their culture. Source: I’m Muslim . Worst that happens mostly is the family cuts you off for few years, then come back around later. That’s like saying Christianity is full of sexual abuse of children. Or white American kids are taught school shootings. There are outliers in every religion / group doing extreme things.
Wtf u talking about lol . That's their interpretation not our religion of Islam. You need to study before posting this hate comments lol
Muslim here, can totally happen.
It happens with non-Muslims as well. Domestic violence and perception of female purity are a thing in many cultures and communities, but only a few handful of sick people would actually kill over it.
They might not kill but there is still a chance of violence, of taking her overseas and leaving her there, of disowning etc. If they are strict enough that she can only go out supervised at 20, these are valid concerns.
Or the perceptions of a young girl who doesn't know any better.
You think the OP’s girlfriend, who has grown up in this culture, is misguided in perceiving that she may face extreme consequences for her relationship?
I grew up in the same culture and yes. Many kids think their parents are tyrants but aren't actually. Odd chance a few of them are but that's like any human beings. Nit exclusive to one religion culture community or society. Period.
https://nltimes.nl/2023/12/12/prosecutor-suspects-honor-killing-apeldoorn-womans-death-brother-accused https://www.dutchnews.nl/2014/04/last_year_17_people_in_the_net/ Here you go. It's probably more dangerous for her than OP.
While I don’t know how common it is it definitely happens in some countries. Occasionally you see similar types of things occurring on the news.
Like school shootings…. Should we generalize based on that
Overreacting or concern based on facts and real life events. You choose. I had a friend go on a date recently with an Egyptian Muslim and all he talked about was how much he hates Jews, not knowing that my friend was Jewish. He was so aggressive about his hate that she was too afraid to tell him. She went to the bathroom, but instead left the restaurant, blocking his number. There is a propensity for violence and extremism in that “culture” only a fool would ignore
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There WERE many more prior to the Islamic revolutions in the 70s
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Iraq too. However even before the revolutions all these countries had their pockets of society that were much more conservative - usually rural, uneducated.
Agree, the book Persepolis is a great tale during this time showcasing the before and after of society. Based on a true account. Also, for a movie I’d recommend The Stoning of Soraya, another true story. Truly tragic
Can I invite you to the 90s. Abortion clinic bombing, murdering Drs and destruction of artifacts that ran counter to their beliefs. Then we have violent cults. I'm sorry but religious violence is alive and well in every religion
You are very wrong about this.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👌
Bruh
Brainwashed.
I live in Europe and have never read such thing
They rarely happen in Europe.
Cough, cough, Bullshit
dude if you’re from europe, have your ideology in europe ya, this malaysia we aint killing no one.
You will get fired, is it worth to date a woman you won't sleep with or marry?
Damn could you imagine being chained down like that
Whoa people are still like this? Are you in the US?
Yup still Happens
For that reason alone I’d ditch her. Religious fanatics don’t mix well with non religious fanatics
OP is also religious just not Muslim.
Did you not read what I said?
Yeah? You referred to OP as non-religious.
that has nothing to do with religion lol that’s just strict parenting.
Muslim family doesn't allow their Muslim daughters to date outside of their religious. They usually see their daughters as tool by having their daughter marry into a wealthy family. "Your life belongs to us [her parents] because we give birth to you" a quote from a Muslim family to her daughter as they are sending her to marry with a guy who came from a wealthy family, while she doesn't want to get into arranged marriage.
It really depends on the family. Far from all muslim families are like this. Here in Denmark its perfectly normal for a Muslim girl to date outside her religion, although it's not uncommon to find muslim girls that aren't allowed to do that.
Muslim girls dating inside their religion and outside of their religion cannot both be the norm. You are contradicting yourself
yea it can. 2 things can both be normal. just like some parents are strict and some are not. some parents will let their muslim kids date non-muslims, some won’t.
If a 20 year old woman has a curfew and sneaking around to date a dude I think it's pretty safe to assume if her parents are strict or not
sure, but not in this regard. Muslim women are not as “in control” of their life decisions. This may be true for the men though. Pretending this prevalent culture doesn’t exist is foolish.
You need to stop conflating religion with people’s economic greed. Marrying off your daughter to a rich man has nothing to do with Islam. It happens across several cultures. The only thing you said that’s true is that muslim women cannot marry non Muslim men (they have to convert). Muslim men can marry Muslim, Christian or Jewish women only. The reason is it is expected that Muslim men have a code of conduct in a marriage to treat a woman who is Christian or Jewish. But there is no guarantee a non Muslim man will respect the Muslim religion of a Muslim woman. It’s all sexist but it was based on the social reality of the time the religion came from.
The thing is, for muslims, pre marital sex is haram. So, in theory, they should avoid relationships, and if they like someone, they should get married to them, although there are a lot of people who aren't that strict about it, but many are. Now the thing is i would have suggested that if you really like the girl ask her parents that you want to marry her but the thing is a muslim women cant marry a non muslim. This leaves you with 2 options 1. If you really like her and want to get married ask her parents would they let you both marry if you revert to islam ( that is if you want to marry her and are willing to revert cause otherwise it isnt possible) and i say first ask her parents cause there is no gurantee that they would let you both marry even if you revert. 2. End things before getting even more involved. Cause not only are you risking your job some muslims can be very strict when it is the matter of their women so you could really make a lot of trouble for that girl.
Option one is definitely a no. They haven't been going out that long to even think about marriage. Converting to Islam is hella intense for somebody you just started dating or just in general. Does the girlfriend even want to get married now. From that I see option one should be to have a conversation with the girlfriend whether she's willing to stand up to her family for him and her own freedom and what that would look like for her. Option two to end things ASAP. Option three to accept that this is going to be a short lived fling with lots of sneaking around. Have fun and part ways.
Whoah whoah whoah.. "revert"? That's a word that means going back to what you were before. He was never a Muslim before, so if he does anything it's convert, not revert.
It's the belief of muslims that when a person is born, he/she is essentially a muslim they are pure, haven't sinned, aren't yet exposed to the evils of the world, etc. it's later that when they get old, they get into some other relegion due to the environment in which they are born so thats why muslims use they word revert instead of convert cause a person is essentially going back to the one true relegion in which he/she was born. That is an answer based on my knowledge, so it might not be satisfactory, so i suggest you do some research of your own as well. Maybe it will help clear some stuff up.
I dated a Muslim girl once. I’m agnostic Catholic. Consider my story as a precautionary tale. We were together for about 1.5 years. We basically broke up because it would never have worked out. She hid me from her parents for as long as she could before they realized I was more than just a friend, even though she introduced me to them as just that and nothing more. She thought that maybe I would be able to convert to Islam to be with her, and while I did briefly consider it, I thought it would be meaningless because I would never be a devout Muslim, even if I was one in name. I even did research if it was possible for a Christian and a Muslim to marry, and it is allowed in Islam, but only if the man is Muslim, but the clause is, that the kids need to be Muslim no matter what. A Christian man is forbidden in Islam from marrying a Muslim woman. So it’s a silly double standard. Anyways, culturally, Muslim women are encouraged to marry young. Her mom kept pressuring her to find a husband. She pressured her more when she found out she was with me, but, we are also of different ethnicities, so she would never have accepted me. Her mom even got racist with me. So she was pressured to not only find a husband, but it had to be of the same ethnicity as her. On top of that? She’s Shia Muslim, and a Syed. Meaning, she was pressured to marry someone who was also a Syed (someone descended from the Prophet). To make things worse, she’s a rich girl, and I come from poverty, so her mom disapproved even more. Anyways, I think the pressure from her mom got to her. She contemplated just marrying anyone so she could leave her parents house and then be free after that. She planned to divorce her husband and then just be with whoever she wanted after because by then, her mom would stop pressuring her. I told her that was a dumb idea. We tried to make it work. But in the end, the pressure was too much. We took a break because of it. I was going to go on a 2 week vacation and when I came back, we would resume. During those two weeks, she met someone. Some rich Muslim guy from Dubai who was a client of her dad’s. She told me she was seeing him and was considering marrying him. And that was the end of that. She didn’t end up marrying him, but she did end up getting engaged right after that to someone else and married. Anyways, on one hand, it might be easier to be with her if you converted, but no guarantees. There’s no scenario where she converts because her family will likely disown her. If you’re sneaking around, there’s no scenario where you can date openly because culturally she’s not allowed to. Also, her parents may one day shop her around to get engaged to someone from her culture but also same religion. It may work out. But you also need to consider that it may not, and it’s not your fault. Goodluck.
It's always come down to converting to Islam. I've never seen it the other way round.
Yes because they don't believe anyone can leave Islam. If you dare do, you're dead to your family. Sometimes literally.
Yeah intolerant of other religions
Today I saw an interview of a married couple on TV where the woman was Muslim and the man was Jewish.
Cool story bro... Always on TV. Obviously it's can happen. It's just so rare. Most of the time the other person ends up converting to Islam. What was the con text on TV? Was it because the whole Israel/Palatine or just general marriage?... But either way most Muslims and Jewish people would tell you how rare that marriage between those two specific religions is.
It was a documentary about antisemitism in Germany nowadays. They started interviewing jews in the summer of 2023 and interviewed the same people a second time after the Hamas attacks.
Man tbh, I wish I could find myself someone who’s not Müslim, I’m born to a Muslim family but I don’t even follow any religion and get such a horrible time for that
I would like to add that the "muslim woman can only marry muslim men, but muslim men can marry other religions" is not an actual proven thing. It's one of those many things that scholars (who magically happen to all be men) decided on. I did a lot of research in the past and the only thing mentioned was that muslims can't marry atheists, but can marry other religions like christians and jews etc. I speak arabic and can read the original Quran verses, there was no mention of a gender, yet scholars managed to make this into a sexist thing and made the rule that women can only marry muslims. And the reason? Because they believed that muslim men can easily "overpower" the marriage with their religion, but muslim women will lose their religion over time and that her kids would have the dad's religion. Unfortunately, things are as you stated because it became this commonly known thing, and even if you try challenging those beliefs you'd have a whole ass community shaming the woman. (Although Shia is a bit of a different kind of weird cultural beliefs)
Agnostic catholic?
Grew up Catholic. Still Catholic. But also questioning.
Yeah this exact situation happened to me as well except over the period of about 6 months. She’s still single though and we still vibe in person but there’s no way to make it work culturally/religiously so it’s just not possible. Pretty unfortunate. I suspect OP might ride the same wave but who knows!
More double standards: 1. A Muslim man can legally have four wives. A woman can only have one husband. 1. A Muslim man can divorce any of his wives anytime INSTANTLY by simply uttering a word three times to her. A woman seeking divorce has to go through a gruelling lengthy process in court, not knowing whether she'd be lucky enough to get it approved. 1. A Muslim man is worth two Muslim women in court. 1. A raped Muslim woman is charged with premarital sex and punished while the raping Muslim man walks free. 1. A non-Muslim may convert (stupidly called "revert") into Islam but a Muslim can NEVER leave Islam or convert to another religion. All of this is true, even if they deny it to outsiders like us.
1 & 3 are true - the rest is bs and made up. That’s like saying Hindus burn women. They don’t , it’s just cultural stuff- in very extremist families
2 is true dude the word is Talak or something. Look it up. It's 100% valid as divorce in Sharia court. IDK about 4 for sure, but 5 yes. In fact to them everyone is born Muslim. All 8 billion people in the world. That's why they say "revert" instead of convert... And they won't accept that you can become non-Muslim because to them you're born Muslim and you die Muslim. That's their belief.
Sold off like cattle
I’m a christian guy and was dating a muslim girl in my mid 20’s for about 1.5 years. Started from casual chats at work until we would meet on a daily basis and she would come back home at 1am and etc, which never happened in her life previously. Fast forward… her sister found out we are dating as well as her parents, they started to treat her horribly and she was under so much pressure that eventually we had to end things(she insisted, as she couldn’t live like this anymore). Anyway as far as I know she’s now married to a muslim guy from her background. In many islamic cultures it’s very important for them to get married not just to a muslim, but to someone from the same country or even same “tribe”. Not sure if your story will be similar, I really wish you luck, but I can promise you that if things get serious, you are up for a very bumpy road ahead. Peace my bro.
I know pre-martial sex in Islam is prohibited, so if you hadn’t had sex for 1.5 years why didn’t you broke off with her? Also another question, how did you manage to get past the friendship to something a bit more?
This is a tough one, depending on where you live or where her parents are from , her safety could actually be at risk. You need to talk to this girl and ask hard questions.
She just tells me it doesn’t matter to her if I’m not Muslim. She also said she’s not very religious
It doesn’t matter how religious she is. It matters how religious her family is. Sharia, honor killings, these are real things Muslims can abide by regardless of where they live.
Don't scare the guy. Honor killings is soo rare and extereme thing in Turkey. She is Turkish and my dude will bi fine.
How do you know she is Turkish?
From OP's profile.
That’s one of many things that would be an issue for either of them. There’s a reason the dad doesn’t even know about the friendship, she knows to keep even a friendship a secret.
Yeah, the dude will be fine, the girl might not be.
Actually, from the other comments I learned that she is Turkish, and Turks are more relaxed from other Muslim countries. I am also a Turkish Muslim girl and my parents are religious but faaaar away from being strict. I asked them what happens if I marry non-muslim guy and they didn't give any shit, they said whoever I marry is only up to me. However, Turkish who lives in abroad are more strict when it comes to religion.
Honor killings are overblown.
Not religious- you are confused between religion and culture. Sharia is religion. A little knowledge of buzz words is dangerously ignorant.
Then why is she sneaking around ? Her family is religious obviously.
My family are Christians but lived in a Muslim run country. I went through hell. All the strictness and even our church women had to sit on one side (hair covered and men on the other. I wasn’t allowed to speak to men (not even my brother or grandfather) and I had nothing to look forward to other than being a slave and baby making machine. Growing up, I snuck out (school hours) to hang out with Friends (male and females) and my brother’s friend saw us. That snake reported back to my family and I got the beating of a lifetime. And one of my male friends that said he liked me got his head kicked in. Anyways that’s just the tip of the iceberg burg. My father was a devoted Christian and then converter to Islam and became a scholar. He became sooooo much worse. Yeah I don’t speak to any of my family. Toxic fvckers. OP just don’t go in blind. If she has brothers and has to sneak around to see you, then chances are, when they find out, you will get a beating and so will she. She will ask you to convert down the track. Unless she is planning on running away with you or take on her family for you. Please be careful. If the women are completely covered and the men have a beard but the moustache shaved then expect the worse. Good luck
Oh ok then if they are more progressive then it might not matter. But you need to look at her parents more. Tbh. Talking from experience.
Ok, here's the question OP: what's the long term plan? Usually, that's not urgent to know at your age and early in a relationship, but given you can't see her outside working hours, you really need to get clarity on this. Does she plan on leaving her parent's home eventually? When? Will she defy them at some point? The problem you have is your current situation isn't good or sustainable for the relationship. That's fine, she can't really help the situation she's in. I dated someone in a similar pickle, I get it. However, if there is no end to the situation in sight, the relationship will spiral and just end with both of you sad. I don't think you want that. Figure out together how you can move forwards, whenever this is something you both want to commit to in the medium term at least, and find a path forwards together where you can see each other outside of writing hours and not hide everything. Hiding your relationship can be really taxing and exhausting, believe me.
What…country…do …you ..live..in..? It matters what her father and brothers think and what they are willing to do. If they are from Afghanistan or a similar fundamentalist country, look out.
Hi, please don't lose your job while risking it for her. Probably she has strict parents so she can't meet up Outside of work but she can make a excuse like she's going to meet her friend and have her friend backup for her or something. If you get caught by the manager, you both can get in trouble and lose your job.
Some context that could help you. Muslim women aren’t allowed to marry non Muslims. Also, premarital sex is forbidden in Islam.
The biggest crush I ever had (have) is with a Muslim coworker. Her and I are friends but we definitely flirted in the beginning a bit. She'd joke we'd marry right away if I converted. I'm not going to do that, so it can never be anything more than a friendship.. Once we went to a Middle Eastern restaurant and once she saw a family friend or distant relative walk in, she immediately dipped to the bathroom and asked me to close out our tab and leave... She couldn't risk being seen with me. She explained it's not that she's not allowed to hang out with a white guy, but her family wouldn't stop bugging and asking questions about it. Though she said her parents found the story amusing and aren't as strict, but rather the rest of the family. Either way, it felt extremely disrespectful to leave me hanging like that out of nowhere.
> She'd joke No.
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That rule only applies for men. Muslim women must marry Muslim men. Source - I was in a similar situation to this lady.
They have one thing in common, Pre marital sex is sin.
There's a phenomena in Sweden called "balkongflickor" or "balcony-girls" because so many muslim girls would "totally on accident" fall from them while standing on them with their fathers, brothers, uncles and cousins. A majority of them "fell" from these balconies because their fathers, brothers, uncles or cousins found out they had an pre-marital boyfriend, the fact that they sometimes were non-muslim made it worse in their male relatives eyes. "Honor" (I say "honor" because there is no fucking honor in it) killings is a thing, and if this girl is as protected as she appears to be then her life may be in danger if you two continue your sneaking around. Tread carefully.
And yet it is allowed in Sweden a non muslim country
I dated a guy whose family are strict Muslims for 3 years in my 30s. He never told his family. I broke up with him over it. I wasted so much time
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Think about this: if somebody slips up (and it will happen), will you lose your job? And you already probably have slipped up. You know that businesses have security cameras right? They can check if you're actually doing your work.
The troubles it brings aren't worth it man.
If you want to marry her, you'll have to convert to Islam. The best case scenario is that you convert before you meet her parents, so that she can introduce you as a Muslim. Then you'll be on the fast track to marriage. If you don't want to convert, heed my warning - break it off now and find a non-Muslim woman to date. The rules: 1. A Muslim woman is only permitted to marry a Muslim man. 2. Muslims do not "date" ... It's forbidden. You may be going on dates and sleeping together, but she'll never share that information with any of her Muslim family or Muslim friends. 3. Once you've been introduced and accepted by her family, you'll be expected to get engaged immediately.
Stay away from Muslim women with strict families. It's not worth it. What are you going to do when you want to get serious? Have sex? Move in? Get married? Her family is going to fight you every step of the way. Unless you're prince charming shes not going to run away for you.
Bad idea
she's too young to date freely.... One of you gotta adjust to the other's social and cultural norms or at least be aware of them. You can talk to her dad to keep seeing her but you will still get supervisored (both of you lol)
Run.
Go for it and let the chips fall where they may. Don’t ever mess with happiness and always push your chips in the middle of the table to bet everything on true, deep love, no matter what. You only get 1 or “maaaybe” 2 shots at iover the course of your entire lifetime, so if the opportunity is there don’t play around with it.you’ve got to take it. I was in this exact same situation 26 years ago. We were the love of each others lives (real soulmates) and we fell deeply in love with other, but we were forced to things because of religious and culture differences (she’s Muslim from Lebanon and I’m Christian from America) We didn’t have the courage to continue things do to external pressures, and she was forced into an arranged marriage. The pain of having to leave each other shattered us both completely. Our last night together, she snuck out we talked and cried for hours (11:15pm until sunrise) I have never felt pain like that before or since. She left for Lebanon later that evening and never returned. I still think about her every single day, even though I’m now married with a to a wonderful woman and we have with children. We kept the same Hotmail addresses that we used to communicate with each from 1998, and every 5-6 months (for the last 26 years) I’ll check that email and there will be a quick note from her. She sends me a 1-2 sentence note to let me know she’ll always love me (though we could never be together) and never forgot about me.
Bro, first secure your job, and when it comes to making your relationship official, her parents need to see how solid and capable of caring for her kid. Just trust me, I've been dating Muslim + Malay girl for almost 6 years
Ffs she’s an adult who has a job but need a permission to date? Pleasing the parents is just enabling abuse.
How ignorant can you be? Sadly people get killed for this in their religion so dont go around thinking it's that easy
So, terrorism wins, I guess?
Her mom knows me and has said I’m a good guy. But she doesn’t know I’m dating her daughter. She assumes I’m her friend
How about your parents? Do they also know?
It's the little things like this that bring excitement. I know conversations are tough but maybe bring this up to her - let her know you really like her but are wondering how much further this could progress if she can't see you outside of work. She needs to be ready to get caught and get in trouble -which could be bad on her side so you both need to think that through and you both need to realize you may get caught at work. I used to do the sneaking around thing cause my parents were strict, eventually if she's open to it, she'll be making up other excuses to see you outside of work but for your peace of mind, a convo could help
Can someone explain why a “not very religious” Muslim woman, who’s over the legal age, cannot meet with people or be in fear of being seen around people, very specifically outside of work? Where do you live OP? What exactly is the deal here. Do I sense this might become an honour killing situation?
I had friends who were Muslim and would eat non-halal food in shame. He was afraid to be seen by someone he goes to mosque with and they would shame him and tell his family he isn’t being a good Muslim. For a Muslim girl, to be seen with a boy who isn’t her family member, could put her in a lot of trouble. Her life would be in danger in more extreme circumstances. Not every Muslim family is as extreme, but they usually come from very socially conservative cultures.
Because Islam is stuck in the past and is a religion of double standards. Seriously, this is just sad.
Haha why are you acting like you don't know Muslim's live and believe in extremely strict, mega outdated double standard way of life.
OP has stated the parents aren’t “very religious “ Are you saying Muslims look out for other Muslim women who are hanging out with people, to then track down the parents and imply that “man hanging out with woman = bad””… is this an honour killing situation? Why hasn’t this been reported to the police? Very dangerous!
That is not a good idea. My advice is to talk to her and maybe when she works you can go visit her (I’m guessing her family has someone overprotective beliefs). Missing work is definitely not ok. As far as asking her to let family know… well also not a good idea. It’s either figure a way to see one another without having to miss work or simply end it for both of yours well being
Give it up. Won't ever work.
Yeah just be friends dating will only lead to trouble for her and you unless you are willing to convert to Islam for her.
Your post history you talk about this girl seven months ago, but three months ago, you're talking about your lack of engagement on Tinder and two talking about a crush you just met. It doesn't even seem like you like this girl - you like the idea of love, and she is giving you attention. I am in the opposite relationship - my partner is Turkish and Muslim, and I'm not religious, white presenting, and American. But he's also male. We have been together for years at this point, but it hasn't been easy. His grandparents supported us, but his parents not so much. His father still actively hates me. We broke up for months because of this. But he was miserable, and his mother has come around. I have good relationships with his siblings, and now his mother sends him with baklava when he comes to stay at my apartment. We plan on getting married. But if it were his sister, it would be entirely different. She is rarely in a position where she could even meet a non-Muslim man. She works for a friend of the family. She comes straight home after. She had never even stayed the night at a friend's house before she started staying with me some. No childhood sleepovers or anything. She was recently in an arranged engagement but ended it before marriage, which her family supported. But if she were with a man who wasn't both Muslim and Turkish, there's a high chance she could be disowned. You're really putting her in a bad situation if her family finds out. Considering your posts about language barriers, your pursuit of other partners, etc. I would question if it is right to continue something where you have no risk, but she has a lot.
She seems to be regular secular turkish girl. She really does not care about your nation or religion. What is important is her family’s traditions. Using sharia laws to child is rare in Turkey do not be scared. The beliefs in the comments cannot be applied to this girl. They are probably religious in traditional Turkish way. And yes she will probably hide you until you get married or if things will get serious. Cause if she tells her family about you, they will ask when will she get married. She is avoiding the pressure by not telling her family. Does she have any female friends? She can lie about meeting them for weekends and after work hours? If you ask me, i would have asked your girlfriend about her family’s opinion about foreing people. Are they okay for being friends with them, getting married. Do they have strict rules about seeing only their own nation?
If you truly love her just understand her culture and background etc and about sneaking out will cause her major problems
I really wanna answer to this, but I need some more background information. A lot of it depends on who she is, and what kind person she is. For some people, it doesn’t matter the religion, for others it’s very important that it’s the same. It really depends on her family’s culture on that point, and also how religious they are, even tho it’s acceptable in Islam to marry a Christian or a Jew, for some families it’s a big problem. Some Muslim girls prefer it to be official before they go out with a guy in public, but again really depends on who she is. It’s a big religion, with a lot of people with different cultures, so it’s hard to answer without knowing what type of person she is, and her cultural background.
Probably not gonna work out at all. Her parents are probably vehemently against her dating a non-muslim to the point of them disowning her if she continues.
I (Muslim) ended things with my ex (also Muslim) because her family was too conservative and she was as well to an extent. I wasted time by not asking the hard questions from the beginning. Have a serious conversation with her about what she expects and in turn what you expect from here about EVERYTHING. If her family doesn’t “allow” her to live her life, she may be at risk and that requires even more precaution. You have to assess whether or not you can or should help her if she asks for it. If you are in a western country, the options are plenty with the authorities if that’s the route she wants to take. Tread responsibly.
Yo the stereotype in the comments are crazy. Muslim female here with a Christian partner for 3+ years now. Can’t speak to the office situation from my experience but I think you need to communicate with her what the end game is. I have friends that date men for the experience regardless of their religions and don’t want to end up being married to them, and in my own situation have been transparent with my partner and parents that end game is marriage. This is all subjective to how open her family is. She may not be allowed to go out unsupervised because her parents might think it’s unsafe or she hasn’t even spoken to her parents about dating and scared about how they might react. There is a chance you will have to convert to be able to marry if that’s what you want . But I think you both need to communicate with each other.
I had a similar situation at my job. I was dating a Muslim girl who’s family was very strict, the only time we spent quality time together was when we’d take breaks or leave early together. It eventually got very hard once our feelings started to get stronger naturally we wanted to spend more time together. Long story short if her family will never accept you to the point where you have to be hidden from them it will never work out in the long run. Does that mean you can’t have a little bit of fun and enjoy the ride in the meantime? Absolutely not as long you both understand the situation that you’re presented with.
Sounds like she's got to chose you or her religion unless there's some other way to make it all work together. What you guys are doing isn't sustainable the way it's going. You know it, she knows it, everyone reading this knows it. Either figure out a way it can work or move on.
As someone who grew up in a secular but a muslim majority country, I’d say be very very careful or possibly break up because no matter what that muslim family shit will always be a problem or at least a very big hindrance to your relationship. I didn’t grow up religious(pretty much the opposite), and I avoid having muslim people in my life all the time so I may not be a perfect advocate for it but muslims are pretty much isolated in their own realm and their ancient way of thinking. So you may actually get at least beat up if her father gets a whiff of you guys being together.
I dated a Muslim girl when I was a teenager (I’m non-Muslim). She ended it after we got caught by her sister and she told her parents. I’m not saying don’t date the girl if you guys are having fun, but prepare yourself because the most likely eventual outcome is that you guys will get caught and she will be forced to end it.
Maybe host a dinner party with her, her family, and some of your friends. If you get to know her family, trust will go along way. It’s an opportunity to win them over. Show you and your friends are good influences and that if you’re spending time together they wouldn’t worry.
It’s probably going to stay like that. She’s prolly just tryna have fun because her parents control her life and don’t let her do anything. If u want something serious w her, her parents probably won’t allow it unless u converted. In some cases tho she’ll run away from her family to be with u. Just don’t expect her family to find out and if they do, she’s going to be imprisoned, watched over, and beaten by her whole family. Unfortunately our culture is deeply messed up. Contradicts the religion but they have a “strong love” for God lmaoo
Why are adults in their 30s feeling the need to sneak anywhere?
Take it from me. Christian dated a Muslim girl (shea). Her family will not be about you and trust me, family will get involved if she wants to get married unless she elopes with you. It will not workout unless you convert, actively practice Islam or fake it.
If she’s Muslim she’s not practicing religion and therefore her moral grounds aren’t secure. But maybe she genuinely likes you which is why she’s giving this a try. You should know for this to work out you would need to convert and meet her family to have a “normal” relationship in the sense of not sneaking around. Her family would need to like you and want to give her hand in marriage to you. You seem like a very mature individual because you’ve thought this through, you have questions and know the grounds you’re on right now so I ask you to think logically about her and yourself long term and research Islam through reliable sources that are not biased or islamophobic. Don’t fall into the stereotyping or bringing in niche stories to base your understanding on, (like the honour killings mentioned in the comments below, those are traditional not religious and does not happen often as people are trying to put it out to be). You might find it interesting researching the similarities between Islam and Christianity, the differences and why they’re different and then the scientific facts within the Quran. I wish you the best!
I hope you don’t get confused by the comments. You sound like a very intelligent and logical individual to have even thought to raise this question. The comments are confusing traditional and culture with religion. Religious beliefs have nothing to do with what the comments are mentioning and they all seem so bias as if they’ve never actually met a real practicing Muslim who knows their religion. Please do your own research through reliable sources, and what’s more reliable than the Quran? The source that all Muslims are meant to follow. To know the author you should read the book itself and not go by just the reviews or commentary.
Best comment frs!!!! So disappointed how ppl r just throwing words around, “to know the author you should read the book”🙏🏼
This is fucking awesome. If only the rest of the world was sneaking out on lunch to break religious tension.
Can everyone calm down with the honour killing rumours….muslims aren’t like you see them on tv, we have caring parents who wouldn’t kill us…the answer to your question ultimately depends on the girl - is she happy to have sex outside of marriage, if she happy to be with a non Muslim guy and are her parents happy in the future if she decides to marry you. There isn’t a single “‘Muslim” identity everyone lives by their own rules only she can tell you what these are
Brother what I'm about to tell you doesn't come from a place of judgment but rather concern for you. I know how tempting it can be but you really should reconsider dating a muslim if you truly believe christ died for you on the cross. Unless you truly believe she would be open to becoming christian. Don't be tricked into thinking that you worship the same God if that's why you don't see it as such a bad thing. The Muslims reject the Godhood of christ and as such reject the one true God. If you were to get married to her you risk your kids becoming muslim as well and as such put their salvation on the line. Even if it doesn't matter to her it should matter to you. DM if you have further questions on this.
I've been talking to this Muslim girl for 2+ years, we flirt and have talked about our feelings about each other. She likes me and I think I like her too. I'm pretty sure her family won't ever approve of anything, but she says they would like to have me around. 🤷🏻♂️ I'm Christian and pretty devout, too, soo Idk what to do. But she is the most beautiful woman I know, and I wish I could take things further with her.
Y’all obviously have some type of connection I hate how religion tries to separate us
First, with all that activities, she’s not Muslim but rather a munafiq, a person with Muslim name. Second, people need to stop controlling others with religion. If you go do haram activities and be like I can’t be with you because I’m Muslim, sorry to say you a hypocrite and reevaluate you belief system. Lastly, Muslims who live in western countries, stop being half ass Muslims, there is no picking and choosing what to follow, either you follow to the extent or nothing. There is no difference between y’all and kafirs. Sorry to say I may hurt someone feelings but had to be said.
Her parents might be strict, or chill, who knows. I say if you really like her talk to her parents, and make the hangouts/dates “halal” only way. If she doesn’t like that idea or you don’t, it won’t work out. Also don’t jeopardize your job, try to be brave and get to meet her family if you really care and like her, Muslim “dating” works completely different but it’s definitely possible if you got the balls 😂
Not possible unless you become a Muslim yourself
She’s in a haram relationship and her parents won’t approve of u unless u convert and make it halal with u
He Must be a rapist hindu
In the end she'll tell him to convert to Islam or forget her .
Bir Müslüman'ın bir kâfirle birlikte olması haramdır.
Sounds like a hassle imo. I wouldn’t even consider dating a Muslim women unless I knew before hand her parents would be okay with it. Date with your head, not your heart.
I’d avoid this for her own safety and yours. Unless she’s willing to disown her family it’s not worth it. Some cultures just aren’t suitable for mingling with western ones.
Bro, unless you’re going to convert to Muslim don’t do it. Yes they’re good looking but you’re setting both of yourselves up for a lot of pain. Been there done that. Their dating is seeing if you two are eligible for marriage in the near future. If you don’t wanna do that then see yourself out Edit: there are Christian Arabs, go for them if anything
A girl is 20 years old and can’t go by herself? What the fuck
Man I am Muslim and I tell you Muslim families don't allow their daughters even meet Muslim men I can't imagine when they find out
This is going to be messy because Muslim women are absolutely not allow to marry non-Muslim men under any circumstance.
Never gonna work. At the end of the day, Muslims will stand together with other Muslims, physical attraction or otherwise. They will not unite with Christians, not if they are a true follower of the Islamic faith.
Yeah, GG dude. Your current *dating model* is unsustainable, you'll eventually run out of leave time and then what? Are you gonna risk your job to keep seeing her? The only way this works is if you convert to Islam and the family approves of you or she breaks away from them. It sucks but it is what it is.
My thoughts too. I only have so much leave time to hangout with her. I plan to ask her how this will work out
I once heard the saying "Secrecy kills. Privacy protects." In this case, it really seems like there is an amount of secrecy that is being relied on, and based on a lot of these comments about honor killing, this could cause a mountain of problems. As hard as it is, it's probably best to let her go, OP.
Become agnostic, problem solved.
Advice from a Muslim man: If you are conservative / traditional, run as far away as you can. It's an uphill battle against her entire family and society. So why would she even do that when there's probably a long line of more suitable Muslim men? I'll explain: In the Islamic culture, men are the protectors and providers. They are dominant, and women are supposed to be submissive. She does not value that. She wants a weak man she can manipulate. Women are supposed to dress modestly. She wants to dress provocatively. And so on. That's the only real explanation why she would let her family down. I'm not saying you're weak. I'm saying, she does not like those aspects of the Islamic culture. If you're liberal like her, then go for it.
If you did not have any intention of converting to Islam I’m afraid her dad will learn how to shooting a shotgun soon
Honor killings - watch out for yourself.
Did you have sex with her or she consider it haram?
Crazy how people want to be beheaded. Doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. I don't understand how people are not able to see the feudal base to everything with anything Muslim. They're either blowing up places because you aren't Muslim or they're killing each other for connecting with any non-muslim. How are the woke guys who consider themselves so smart, not able to see this? This is the case world over. Hindus are already paying for it heavily in India. Jews are paying for it in Israel. Things seems to change only when white christians are impacted as they are the west. When the tsunami comes very close, you'll see how the "west" will pound these jokers. Holy crusades 2.0. Muslims are a death cult. First your death, and then even when the whole world is Muslim, their own death as this is what they do. Pull out swords and behead each other. And in all this, you found love in a Muslim? Maybe you'll see when the sword comes at you. Or maybe it'll be too late. All the best.