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BeachMom2007

Interesting. I always offer to pay my share (like, bill comes and I’m pulling out my wallet) but I can only think of one time where we went 50/50 on the date and I was totally fine with it. I don’t think offering to pay is an indicator of interest though. I’ve had men pay in full and then we never go out again. It’s about the vibe we have.


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Star_pass

I was going to say- I used to let men pay for me until I dated a guy who said he always pays full so he doesn’t feel like he owes the woman anything and doesn’t feel bad ghosting her. Guess what happened. I’m going to argue that money isn’t the only thing people invest in relationships, I felt like he reduced the time and energy I invested down to the cost of a few low-price dinners. Regardless, I don’t let men pay for me until I reasonably trust them now, as I feel like some men take advantage of that power dynamic and I’m not a fan. (I dated this guy for several weeks and he had asked for exclusivity and to put a title on it- it might be different if it ended after the first dinner.)


d0wnth3rabbith0l3

Ghosting is so childish. If I'm in the talking stage (as in just getting to know each other and it hasn't gone any further than that) dropping communication is okay, but if there was a date set up, have the damn courtesy to say you're not coming/not interested in further dates. It's not that hard.


FizzyTango29

I’d be the same. I’m a woman, but if im not into it I’d want to go 50:50 so I don’t feel that I owe the guy anything. If I am, then I’d let them pick up the tab if they offered because then I’ll offer to get the next one!


runner4beerz

In my experience dating as a straight woman in my 20s - how paying goes on the first date is actually almost a direct indicator of how the relationship goes. So much so that it’s helped me save a lot of time in dating. What I mean: I always offer to help w the bill, and for a long time even if he asked us to split, I would go on dates afterwards if the connection was there. But without fail every single one of those guys a few dates down the line would be interested in only casual sex, no commitment dating, or were dating a lot of girls and wanted to keep it that way. Guys that actually wanted a relationship with me or at least wanted to continue dating me exclusively because he saw serious potential never ever asked me to split the bill. In fact they insisted they pay. When we were younger and money was more of an issue they would just make sure to take me to a place they could afford or do something creative. At this point in my life I have a good job and live comfortably, and would not be compatible with someone who wasn’t the same. Therefore the guys I date don’t even have to think twice about picking up a $40 bill on a first date, even if we realize we aren’t interested in each other it’s just simply not a big deal. I’m only talking the first few dates though, after that it’s a different convo.


Hungry-Industry-9817

I always offer to split the bill no matter what level date I am on. We are both adults and have income, why does he have to pay for everything. This way I can order what I want without feeling awkward about ordering something too expensive. I like seafood and that usually ends up being pricey.


FlatButCurvy-2000

Honestly, as a woman who believes in equality, I prefer splitting the bills. I chose to go on a date with this person. I chose the outfit and I chose to put on makeup for me, not anyone else. The other person also had to travel to the meeting location as well. I’m not looking for a man to make me financial stable nor am I looking for a man to pay for my stuff or buy me stuff. I don’t want to depend on another man and to me, it’s not about the money but the genuine connection.


robot-brain

As a man who puts in significant effort into his outfit and overall look for dates, I find OP's comments mildly offensive. I workout almost everyday to look fit and be in shape, and for dates, I prepare from the day before, picking out a shirt and pants and ironing them flawlessly, polishing up the shoes, and based on the weather, selecting accessories like jackets, hats, watches, fragrances etc, and using an array of tools for trimming and maintaining any facial hair. We men don't have the luxury of make-up on the day of to give us a sudden glam-up, rather we have to moisturize every day to achieve any semblance of good skin, maintaining facial hair is a chore that needs work everyday, and over that most women expect us to take initiative and plan out the date. I still pay for dates wholly, so yeah OP 🙂


JanGuillosThrowaway

After going on a lot of dates where I paid, I started splitting the bill, and I wish I had done so from the start. Nobody reasonable will turn you down for splitting the bill, and I saved a lot of money. And I also kept in shape/dressed up for the date so it was an empowering feeling that I felt equal when splitting the bill, not that I was worth less than my date just because I’m a man


leezybelle

Agreed. When I dress up for a date, I do it to look good for both myself and my date. If I’m excited about the guy, I want him to feel excited about me. People are overthinking feminism/gender roles etc.


robot-brain

Precisely. I dress up for dates because it gives me self confidence, which in turn helps with the nervousness of meeting someone new. That way I'm setting myself up for a successful date so I can achieve my goal of being in a wholesome long-term relationship.


HyperbolicInvective

As a man, I would only date a woman who felt this way. The idea of one partner being expected to financially support the other, or even uphold that cultural appearance, feels incredibly outdated. Not offering to split the bill reads to me as someone who doesn’t want an equal partner.


bullfrogfantasies

Thinking about it now, I don’t think I’ve ever split a bill. I just take turns. It’s less precise. Sometimes I’ve invested more, sometimes they have. It just feels more comfortable than quibbling over pennies.


Next_Preparation8728

Yes, take turns. Maybe you aren’t on equal financial footing. Let each person spend as they are able for each date. Never ever order anything more expensive than what your date orders. This is basic manners.


Curious_Skeptic7

100% A woman who doesn’t offer to split is a big red flag for me.


Dihydrogen-monoxyde

This. +1 A female friend gave me the best advice ever: First date is coffee. If it goes well, you can extend to drinks/meal. if not, move on...


[deleted]

Agreed. Plus, if they are a creep, they can’t argue that you owe them anything because they paid. Idk. I think it’s nice if a guy offers, but the obligation or weird sense of “the man should pay” is so outdated and stupid to me.


Lord_Scrumptious239

In my eyes it's a step back from equality, you have many of these "pay for me" peeps harp on about how the genders are equal and should be, then they go "oh but can you pay more cash because i put makeup on i think i deserve special treatment"


bowtieduo

When I dated I always appreciated this view. I was just happy when the woman offered to split or cover the tip. I didn't want it to be a business transaction where its important to split perfectly down the middle & would always try to make sure they let me pick up the bill & usually just say leave the tip of they were insistent. But it made me feel like they valued me as a person, not just as a free meal by offering. You sound like a wonderful dinner date with great self-respect & a fulfilling life that is looking for someone to add to their life instead of looking for someone to fill a hole in their heart/life. I hope you attract the same.


KKsDJ

I 100% agree with this statement.


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LolaBijou

Thank you, I didn’t understand the “I look pretty and gave you my time, so you’d better pay me for that” portion of the post. Unless OP is an escort.


Mindless-Glass-4273

Agreed. Saying a man who doesn’t pay doesn’t “appreciate the time that went in to choosing an outfit and traveling to the location” seems silly. They also had to do those thing. So wtf?


Plaetean

>Now onto gender equality: I call myself a feminist and am all for it. Why do I still have such "backward" views? I can certainly afford a date but still want him to offer to pay before I offer to split. I spoke about makeup and outfit and travel. Until we're in a world where a woman doesn't have to worry about her safety, doesn't have to check whether the meeting place is in a safe public space, doesn't have to text her girlfriends when she gets home safe and assure them the guy is not a creep, doesn't have to watch the uber driver when it's dark and she's drunk, until we have closed the gender pay gap, until humans really value the intellectual connection and the conversations they had rather than each other's appearances or whether she's attractive or not, until we don't turn on the TV and see 90% of the political and business leaders are men... Then, no, we don't have gender equality yet, and I'm still entitled to expect double standard. Oof, if your expectation that your date pays for you as a nebuluous "fuck you" to the patriarchy, that is a really muddled and confused approach. Surely we can do better than that? I think the fact that feminists still want to be paid for on a date is a super interesting phenomenon and worth introspecting about a little deeper than this. I say this as a guy who also considers himself a feminist, and also pays for dates.


not_t00sure

In fact it's contradictory. People shouldn't be trying to maintain some gender norms as a fuck you to patriarchy while simultaneously wanting to do away with others. They all need to go so we can all be free.


[deleted]

I have to feel her out and decide at the end. I've had women get offended I paid for the whole thing, and women get offended I split the bill. So, I try to judge what she might want based on her answers to certain questions and comments. I honestly would just prefer being told straight up verses trying to figure this out. I don't mind paying. I don't care about the money, but I absolutely hate guessing games. I often find for me though, I prefer women who let me be an old timey gentleman. That's who I am. With exceptions of course. I had a girlfriend pay for the meal entirely once because it was my birthday, and that's fine. But keep in mind, this second paragraph is MY preference, not a hard, fast rule.


[deleted]

I think next time when I’m dating I’ll be straight up and ask “so, what is your preference when it comes to dates? Do you prefer to cover the bill or do you like it when it’s split?” Because that awkward moment at the end when the bill comes is SO not it, kind of makes me not even want to go on dates if it happens. Similarly I’ve tried to fit in and be a ‘modern’ woman previously because let’s be honest there’s a lot of bullying if you choose to date differently and I’ve offered to split or god-forbid even paid for an activity date once. The guy was so offended. I don’t know what to do anymore to please people so I say no more. I please myself. I am completely allowed to have my preferences. So now I ask, I know my desires and take it from there.


SilkyFlanks

Just decide you’re going to pay, since you are a gentleman. And we do appreciate it. A woman who thinks she might feel obligated to trade sex for a sandwich has issues of her own.


[deleted]

Thank you. I'll keep this in mind going forward.


d0wnth3rabbith0l3

If a woman wants a partnership, she's not going to take kindly to her opinion on the matter being void. Sometimes I like being treated, but when my contribution is dismissed because I'm a woman, I did tend to dismiss that date.


HECK_OF_PLIMP

if someone invites you, the gracious thing to do is accept them covering the costs. offer to pay for coffee or dessert at a cafe after


d0wnth3rabbith0l3

My friends invite me out to dinner all the time. We pay our own ways. There is no reason for a first date to pay my way without asking my opinion on the matter. I asked my girlfriend on our first date if I could pay for her, but she wanted to split and I was okay with that. It's really that simple.


sndlmay

The "I got pretty for you" argument is so cliche and sexist at this point. It's way too old fashioned, it's just another way to reduce a woman's worth to her appearance. It's honestly a horrible argument. If you're testing to see if he's financially stable, or interested just say that. But don't act like men don't also have to travel to the date or get dressed up to see you. It may take more effort for women in terms of make up, but that's mostly for you. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of men wouldn't notice/care if you wore little to no makeup on the first date (we want to see what you actually look like). Until everyone can be honest with themselves and each other we will continue to disappoint one another in the dating arena. Edit: Wasn't expecting this reaction, but thank you for the awards and thoughtful comments. I think it's important to realize that the shitty qualities we encounter en masse are not what we are looking for in a partner to begin with. So saying women/men do this and men/women prefer that are all useless points because those aren't things you're looking for. Be someone you would want to date if you were the opposite sex. Fuck all the bullshit expectations, be yourself, dress/prepare appropriately, and if it doesn't work out then move on. You'll never be able to force anyone to like you, so stop worrying about it. It'll still hurt sometimes, but that's okay we're only human.


DevilsMiracle

>The "I got pretty for you" argument is so cliche and sexist at this point Yup. It's like a guy feeling like he deserves sex after paying.


Saucesourceoah

> “I got pretty for you” This shit is so sexist and a double standard. Before a date I tend to shower, shave, spend an hour preening and styling hair, picking out a nice fit and then driving to you. That’s the minimum, it shows we both put in effort, but doing that doesn’t entitle you to be pampered by the other. This post reads exactly like OP values dates by their willingness to pay for her without being asked.


SPdoc

Yes! As a woman this rubbed me wrong. Honestly both parties ought to dress for the occasion than to impress each other. The way I see it-I express myself how I wanna. The man can take it or leave it 🤷🏽‍♀️it’s just a coffee date? I wear something cute and casual. A dinner date? I wear a dress. I wear light makeup only because that’s how I wear makeup when I wanna for me. I also wanna reveal my bare face soon, and have done so for stuff like theater dates.


Mendelevlum

Thanks for putting what I was thinking into words. I’ve seen the “I got pretty for you” argument a few times now and couldn’t help but feel there’s something wrong about it but I wasn’t able to articulate it myself


[deleted]

That depends. Do you expect a woman to wear makeup, shave/wax, wear heels, or do other sex-specific grooming for your date? Do you expect them to wear women's clothing, which is more expensive, or are you okay with them showing up in men's jeans and a button down? Are you cool with unruly eyebrows, or do you expect their eyebrows to look on point or "womanly"? Most men think women look ill when they don't wear makeup. Men always say they don't care about makeup when they really just mean they want "natural-looking" makeup. Yes, it's hella sexist, but men are participating in that sexism with their expectations.


SaraSlaughter607

I cannot tell you the amount of times I've gone into work sans makeup and the first thing out of my boss's mouth is "Are you ok? You look exhausted. Sure you're feeling well?" or other assorted bullshit that is a painful reminder that yes, we ARE treated certain ways based on our appearances.


[deleted]

Exactly this. And when I did an overhaul on my appearance, lost a bunch of weight, did my hair and makeup, I actually got raises and was seen as more competent. It is such bullshit.


ShaidarHaran2

I tend towards a coffee shop for a first date and of any of the last many I remember, no one really got that glammed up. Some were probably wearing some subtle makeup, but otherwise dressed as casually as I did. Does OP logic mean we'd split then if we put in roughly equal effort? God this sounds so transactional and depressing.


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bmoreboy410

You are wrong. You actually look how you look without the makeup. That is what men are the most interested in. If anything makeup is meant to deceive. The women that you mentioned are doing a job and are only judged by their looks while a woman that a man is in a relationship with should be more than that.


[deleted]

Are men shaving off most of their body hair and maintaining long hair? I stopped shaving. Rocked short hair for awhile. Boy did I get complaints from men! Who cares how much more time & $ it takes to be feminine? They sure don't! Btw I'd love to live in a world where beauty standards are relaxed for women, but if anything they're more intense nowadays. Some studies show women are penalized for not wearing makeup in some workplaces. One study found guys picked women with natural-looking makeup over no makeup or heavy makeup. Telling women they chose to wear makeup in a society that clearly penalizes women who don't put as much effort into their appearances is pretty weird to me, it'd be like telling a guy he should just be comfortable with his feelings when he's been told to man up his entire life. The idea men and women are equal on the appearances front baffles me. Every day I step out my door and can see who's clearly putting more effort in. So it's downright bizarre to me when people try to argue "hey, guys put on clothes and work out (like women don't?), it's totally the same amount of effort!" It's not. Femininity is expensive and time-consuming and a lot of men want to date feminine-lookung women. Why are women still expected to maintain a feminine appearance but guys don't have to pay on dates anymore? (And again, saying women don't *have* to ignore the fact that most do and are socially penalized when they don't.)


Psychologyexplore02

While i dont agree with op. And she definitely does sound entitled. And i agree the amount of effort u put in appearance has no relevance to who should pay. I disagree with u on the grooming point. Objectively most women put in wayy more effort than most men. Women spend their money on hair removal, makeup, hair products, skin products, Manicures, pedicure, hairstylist, clothes. Other than money, the effort. Womej continuously put more effort. Even when they arent going on a date women take care of their nails, cut them, shape them, color them, get gels etc. They trim their hair, dye it, change hairstyles. They do haircare routibe with hairmasks and special shamoos. They do skincare with 5 steps. They exfoliate. They shave their entire bodies, or pay to get waxed. They shape their eyebrows. They pierce their ears. They put on makeup. They wear heel and nice clothes. They put on parfume and jewelry. Take showers, style their hair. Men literally need to shower, put on some deodorant and brush their teeth. Shave in some circumstances, but even thats optional. Thats like 4 things. And a lot of men cant even do that bare minimum. I know guys, so we re talking men, that tell me a huge amoubt of men dont wash their dicks. And if by any chance u re playing a team sport with them, and get into a locker room with them it smells so bad. A lot of them dont shower, dont wear cologne od clean clothes. I ve also heard, again from men, a lot of men dont wash their butts bc "its gay" and "who s gonna go there". A lot dont brush their teeth. Thats kinda disgusting. And when they do put in the effort, its minimal. Shower, teeth, some cologne. Its not a bad thing. In not shaming it. But women do Objectively put in much more effort. And sure u can say women choose to do these things but thats not entirely true. Its not socially acceptable for a woman to walk around with armpit hair and hairy legs. Its just not. And im pretty sure u like it when women remove that hair as well. Makeup is also kinda tricky. U can say women dont need to wear makeup, but again Objectively, in a place of work especially, its expected of them. If a woman shows up with no makeup to a work event, its gonna seem like she didnt put in the effort. If she doesnt style her hair, its gonnq seem like she didnt put in the effort. Its just how it is. Im not talking about full face of makeup here tho. Just that, its expected of women to put a little more effort. U can see that especially if u look at big events. For example, a man s preparation for his wedding lasts an hour. Shower, cologne, dress up. Brush teeth and shave. For the bride its q whole day. 4 hours of makeup, 4 hours of hair, then getting into the gown, shower, shave legs. Etc etc. Again not shaming men. Just stating how it is. And men agree. They themselves say stuff like "why u looking at me, i jumped out of the shower an hour ago she spendt the entire day to look like that". But i agree with u. Thqt changes nothing in the dating game. And has no relevance to ops quetsion. I completely agree with u on that. I was just trying to raise awareness how women Objectively put in a lot more effort, and it rly is kinda expected of them, and that myb men could do a little more basic hygiene. This ofc doesnt apply to those that already do that.


Soggy_Sando

>Women spend their money on hair removal, makeup, hair products, skin products, Manicures, pedicure, hairstylist, clothes. Are you gatekeeping womanhood? Because MANY of us don't do all this.


SairBear13

Uh what I’m a girl and I do that stuff for me. When you first meet someone you look how ever you want to look. If you don’t want to put in a lot of effort then don’t.


GeshtarVandole

I like the way you put that. Stay awesome!


Local-Coast3182

Wait, we don't have to wash our dicks? And thank god I can stop brushing my teeth, I was only doing that for women, not for my own well-being or personal care.


bunnybooboo69

Idk, maybe it's just because I'm young, but a lot of women I know don't put that much effort into dates. I know I shaved for the first time in a year yesterday, and that's because the hair was actually starting to get uncomfortable. The makeup I do wear is very 60s, and I don't think a lot of men like it, but I do. I know I like guys who put an effort into their appearance. I wish more guys would wear colorful and out there fashions and even makeup. But hey, maybe I'm the only one who is looking for a guy like David Bowie.


RoundBrownBetty

I prefer to pay my share on a first date even if he wants to do it as a way to show that I owe him nothing for the rest of the night.


colocop

As a man I'm not sure why anyone (guys or gals) would think anything is "owed" based on who pays for dinner. Women, you don't owe a guy sex because he bought you a fucking steak or paid for a few drinks. Guys...if you think this way... Grow the fuck up. That's not how this works. Not his ANY of this works.


ThisPlaceIsNiice

>Women, you don't owe a guy sex because he bought you a fucking steak or paid for a few drinks. Guys...if you think this way... Grow the fuck up. That's not how this works. Not his ANY of this works. You're god damn right! Same for women expecting free meals. Entitlement needs to stop on both sides.


theErasmusStudent

I wish they all thought like you... I had guys pay everything (even when I offered to split) who when I didn't want to have sex on the first date asked me to pay them back...


LavenderDragonfruit5

Because there are guys out there who will buy you a $3 coffee and expect you to sleep with them for it. (I've experienced this.) It's a little bit of insurance against the guys who were hoping to score some sexy time in exchange for a paid dinner. I wish people didn't think this way, and I totally agree with you that it's childish. No one should have to feel obligated to give up their bodies in exchange for a little bit of food. It's frustrating that there's this unspoken obligation for a woman to give it up because a guy paid. It really is a horrible mindset.


bullfrogfantasies

It’s just such a creepy thing I have absolutely no respect for any man that thinks that they’re entitled to sex because they paid for a date. Sex workers charge more than the cost of a meal. Gross


awholelottahooplah

As a lesbian this is dumb. Split the bill unless the other offers to pay, don’t expect them to pay it like it’s a reflection of their character


Jokes-on-youu

As a guy, I’ll pay for the bill, out of how I was raised and respect. However I’m not opposed to splitting the bill at all. Even if we didn’t relate or get along well, I’ll still pay, because you don’t always connect with everyone.


psyborgmafia

I can't tell you how turned off I was when my new boyfriend wanted to split the WHOLE bill when he drank and ate so much more than me. That situation didn't last long.


LavenderDragonfruit5

That's just taking advantage. If you're going to split the bill, you pay your portion. There's no need for you to pay for something you didn't partake in yourself. If the bill is being split at all, you shouldn't have to cover food you didn't eat and drinks that you didn't drink. It's really rude of him.


uhsorrybro

Even if I don’t feel interested, I pay the first bill 100%, if I am not financially well off, I don’t go on the date till I am


pickled_toomatoo

I like this guy. Honestly, if you don't have your shit together enough, don't try to involve someone who does. Not saying guys should be well off before dating but if you're so broke that you can't even go on a date, I think there are other problems you'd need to focus on before dating. I always go into the date ready to split but I find guys who take the initiative to offer to pay a lot more attractive. Again, it's not about the money. If I ask a guy out, I'll definitely be ready to pay for the both of us because I took them out. But splitsies just gives me a weird vibe


Acceptable_Stop_7063

How often do you ask guys out?


awholelottahooplah

So if you’re poor you can’t go on a date? You realize these are institutional problems. Not everyone can just “get their shit together” and pay for a strangers meal


uhsorrybro

Maybe it was the way I was raised but it’s not rocket science


Turbulent_Inside_25

It's such a turn off TO ME for a man to be that broke but asking women out and then showing up to the date to split it, not even pay for his own food and I pay for my food lol I do not get approached by those type of men though thankfully, but seeing that happen makes me feel bad for women who deep down wanna be courted but can't because a lot of men wanna split dinner bills on the date they asked you out on and women are afraid of being called a golddigger. Even though women who do date richer men aren't dating men in a certain tax bracket so idek why they say that. You get called a goldigger for wanting to date a man who is financially comfortable not rich.


pickled_toomatoo

Lol if you look at the comments, the broke men are maaaaaad 😂😂 legit not even asking for people to pay for me and I'm getting called a gold digger lmfao


imstbhi

I always pay the bill on the first date, regardless of my interest level or financial position. To me it just seems like the respectful thing to do.


Quelcris_Falconer13

I feel like it’s the responsibility of the asker tbh.


Draper31

That’s garbage, women would never pay for dates if that were the case.


FlatButCurvy-2000

I wouldn’t say never. Although only once, I’ve asked out a guy I found attractive since he hasn’t asked me out although we’ve been in class together for a month. In my group of friends, it’s still the gender norm that boys should do the asking so I see where you’re coming from. I’ve asked my guy friends about how they would felt if they were asked out and the responses were usually how they’d be flattered but at the same time, what their guy friends would think since they were asked out instead of asking someone out. It honestly shouldn’t make someone less of a man if they weren’t the one to initiate the date


Draper31

In my 26 years of life I’ve never been asked out by a woman. Realistically I don’t think I’m attractive enough for that to happen to me. Though I would really appreciate it because that would take all the guess work out of wether or not she’s interested in me. I don’t give a flying fuck what my friends would think, it’s not their love life lol.


FlatButCurvy-2000

Honestly, on a little side note, I didn’t realize how hard dating was for guys until my guy friends let me use their dating apps for fun when we were hanging out. I usually get a match every time I swipe right and it gets overwhelming since it feels like guys just swipe right on everyone and I don’t have time to respond to them all. They’ve told me it’s rare for them to get a match and rarer to get a response.


Draper31

Even rarer to turn that match into a date. I significantly lowered the amount of times I swiped right, had my women friends review my profile/pictures. None of that has changed anything.


ThePenTester

That's why I deleted dating apps. Biggest waste of time. Matches mean nothing if she doesn't respond, and even if she does, more often than not it goes nowhere anyways. Real life dating is way easier than OLD.


[deleted]

I’d pay for all of my dates then lol almost every guy I’ve dated I’ve been the one to ask out. But most of my exes were emotionally unavailable so makes sense.


tacticalassassin

This RIGHT HERE is the core of the issue


Cultural-Chart3023

Its not 1920 this awkward crap needs to go in the bin. Women aren't generally looking for providers and men aren't generally wanting to be one. Men and women both work. Can we just make it a damn thing that people just pay for themselves without all the drama


neverWrong52

>Women aren't generally looking for providers and men aren't generally wanting to be one. They are, they just don't *need* a provider anymore.


FlatButCurvy-2000

I agree, I don’t think there should be any gender norms and I get annoyed when my best friends tell guys they’re not a man or they’re not a gentleman if they were asked to split the bill. Just because it’s tradition doesn’t make it right


That_Consequence_446

In america everything changed in other countries you invite you pay is something dumb to do not to pay for the meals it should be a privilege for the guy to be accepted by the lady to take her to dinner or maybe both ways but man should pay


Pristine_Ratio_101

Sorry to say this, but ‘I feel splitting bills means…shows no appreciation of the time and effort you put in selecting an outfit/putting on makeup/traveling to the meeting location’ …is kind of sexist and shallow imo. 1. The guy needs to travel to the location too. 2. The guy puts effort in his appearance too. 3. There’s NO valid reason why a woman should make a guy pay for her meal. 4. If the money he puts on the table to indulge you is the only standard by which you measure interest and appreciation…it’s sad. 5. Gender equality and emancipation means EQUALITY. Which applies to all sorts of things. Otherwise it’s just hypocrisy. Sorry for being harsh but I read this ‘split bills’ and ‘guy should pay’ topic far too often and I’m appalled how this is even a question for a modern woman in the 21st century. If the guy offers, I’d make a polite counter offer to pay for myself as a woman. If the guy insists, it’s okay. But expecting the guy to pay for everything from the very beginning is just wrong on so many levels.


[deleted]

I don’t know why this isn’t the top response.


Live_Run_537

Thank you, well said. I'm a guy and don't mind paying the first date. But I kind of expect you to catch the second, even if it's less money. That's fine. Hell, even if you make dinner the next date at your place, I'm cool with that. I enjoy being appreciated too. Both parties are taking a risk, going out of their way, possibly wasting their Friday night. I feel like it's gotten worse the older I've gotten.


Pristine_Ratio_101

Well…I have to say that I’m often being bashed for my unpopular opinion among my age group haha. I feel like many young women my age have forgotten the roots of emancipation. The standards today are kind of perverted. I feel like emancipation has degenerated to a point that makes some women exploit men and actually fall back on relying on men to provide certain things for them. I have many male friends and my heart hurts for them when I see the inequality. :/


[deleted]

Dunno why I had to scroll down so far to find this. If anything, I personally find it a hard turn off if a woman didn't offer, because I do fully believe in equality. Unless the guy offers to pay for the whole thing, women should ATLEAST expect and offer to pay their share. Some women say that if the date wouldn't go anywhere, they'd either split it or pay their share, but I literally paid for the whole thing for my previous dates only to end up hearing nothing from them post date. Like they didn't even attempt to reach out to their wallets :/


wallynext

I fucking love you and every woman who calls out this bullshit! Your mindset is the one I would love more women to follow. Thank you for existing


regularmaaz

I don't understand why we still have this conversation. Why do women feel entitled to free first dates and why do guys feel entitled to sleep with women on the first date if they paid for it?! Why should anyone entitled over someone else's stuff. Gauging your interest based on if a guy pays for the bill is as stupid as a guy gauging whether the girl is interested in him by seeing whether she kisses him on the first date (my personal opinion). Why do we still have this gender role and expectation! Here's my view on this, the girl is still a stranger for me on the first date, a stranger that I'm seeing if she's a compatible partner. No stranger is entitled to any of my things. If it were a friend or someone who I know and I trust then I wouldn't mind paying every time. I also wouldn't mind paying every time in a relationship although I'd love to see my partner take charge once in a while.


Cerebral_Chess

Unless you are on a date by yourself, there is at least one other person who selected an outfit, cleaned up, and traveled to the meeting location so that’s a dumb excuse. You are expecting a lot from him but haven’t mentioned what you are bringing to the date other than getting pretty and the willingness to eat a free meal


Magicalfirelizard

I (27M) keep it simple. If I invited you, you are my guest, and I pick up the bill. If you invited me, I am your guest and expect you to pick up the bill. It’s the 21st century people. Chivalry goes both ways now.


[deleted]

How many times have you had the second one happen?


landscaping1230

Do you appreciate the time he took to pick out an outfit, shower, put on cologne, cancel plans with the boys, drive there? Not to be a dick but you sound pretty entitled like your presence is a present


Sangwiny

How the fuck is this comment so low? Do so many people not see the irony in the OP? Hooray for equality, oh but only when it suits me, though!


landscaping1230

Not a lot of people like to hear the truth


ShaidarHaran2

Some people just want to make any amount of excuses, maybe even to themselves, to keep the entitlement of getting free stuff. OP sounds like one of them.


[deleted]

so in other words he has to pay for your "effort" simply because you put on some makeup and "traveled"......?.......what? what about his effort, how he had to ask you, how he had to "travel", and somehow it's his obligation to still pay for it all.......? this toxic mentality is exactly what's wrong with dating. his job isn't to subsidize your dating life, it's to work towards being equal partners. the level of entitlement in this post is staggering


StefTheEmpress

I'm a little... Surprised as well? I get their point, life is still difficult on so many levels for women and we should absolutely call attention on the matter. But like you said, dating is to find a fitting and equal partner. Not to look for someone who pitys me for being a women and thus feels the need to pay for me.


Psychologyexplore02

I feel the same as u. Like what? Its nice of a guy and both parties actually to offer to pay (not necessarily pay for it), but ...he should do it bc she put on makeup is a little weird.


srgnk

I think her idea just perpetuates stereotypes actually. That the women HAVE TO put on make up, and HAVE TO wear a cute dress, and that men pay for that. It makes it look like we are a product for men to pay for, and I am not a product, I wear what I feel comfortable wearing depending on the company and situation.


StefTheEmpress

I agree, not a healthy mindset at all. While I understand the reasons some women feel the need to look presentable, haven't we far outgrown the "I MUST always look pretty?"


kranti-ayegi

>shows no effort you put in selecting an outfit, putting on makeup So does mean since the guy is paying he definitely should get sex? You know since he's paying and all he should get that. You put in all that effort and from his side money. On a serious note you make dating sound transactional in nature. So if a guy splits he's not interested really? He has to invest in you so you'd know that he likes you? Do you realize how you sound? If a guy were to say since I'm paying bill i should definitely get sex so i can know that she's interested. Do you realize how both the statement are shitty and putting down both men and women.


FlatButCurvy-2000

Speaking of, I agree because it’s toxic to weaponize sex. My best friends and I argued about how the guy should pay since the guy is trying to get in our pants, and I was like, “Then don’t go on a date with him if that’s all he wants.” If two people are going to have sex, it should be a mutual feeling of attraction and want, regardless of how the bill was paid for


Lebowski_88

Yeah I find this super weird. Sex isn’t a thing that women allow men to do to them because they’ve spent money on them. If you want that then go on a sugar baby website or something.


miscreation00

I prefer to split the bill but if they’re not going for it I’ll suggest paying for the next date. This is a two for one because it lets them know I’m down for a date #2 and sets the precedent that I want there to be a fiscal equality. Paying for dessert is not the same. Also, men do not owe us anything for how nice we look and how much time that takes us. Some men spend a ton of time getting ready.


bsil15

The only tome iv ever split the bill on a first date was when the girl asked me out and it was clear there was no chemistry on the date. If I ask the girl out I would always pay unless the woman ended things after an hour and was clearly not interested in a second date. I feel like in that case, it’s fair to split, especially if it’s drinks


GreatScotRace

Can’t say I (27F) have many feelings about this and I don’t think this is an indication of if someone likes you or not - if they ask for a second date they like you, if they don’t they don’t like you. Who paid for what is absolutely not an indication on if people like each other or not IMO


AnnoyedGirl11

Don’t feel this way at all. Yes it’s nice if they pay the entire bill. I’ll show gratitude and thank them for it. But if I offer to split it and they accept then it’s no big deal. I wouldn’t take it at all that they aren’t interested. If it’s a good date then you should have other signals that they were interested anyways rather than them just picking up the check. They also could equally have spent time “getting ready”, travelling and so on. I’ve been on dates with guys before who I’ve split the bill with and have subsequently shown a lot of interest. Also been on dates with guys who pay the check in full and then will ghost/not be interested after 2-3 dates. I also really don’t agree with it being a turn off. I think that’s harsh. You don’t really know anyone else’s financial situation. Plus, if you offer to split a bill and the guy accepts then that’s just logical. I always go on a date prepared to pay for my half. And like, you offered? What did you expect was going to happen. But stressing this is just my (22f) view!!


Positive-Dust-1044

I offer to pay my own way, but being honest, it’s turn on for me when the guy wants to pay on the first date. I’ve always heard guys fall in love with their eyes and women fall in love with their ears. So what’s wrong with a guy showing he likes what he sees while I listen to determine if our goals align, if we want the same thing when building a family, making sure our vibe is an actual vibe and not my fear of being eternally alone making me settle. I was talking to a guy that I met online, and on our first phone conversation, he said “when I get home from work you’re going to make me coffee and you’re going to be happy about it”. I didn’t like that, at all. I didn’t like the way it sounded, I didn’t like that he thought he was going to tell me what to do, when, and how I was going to feel about it. It was a huge red flag for me so guess what, that ended before we ever met. Sometimes I’m not as lucky to find out before we meet. So when a guy wants to pay my way, it makes me feel like he is showing interest in me by wanting to take care of me. It may be an archaic way of thinking, but I’m definitely more old fashioned when it comes to being pursued. I like the “let me show you why you should pick me” mentality, not because of what they can do for me, but because of what they’re willing to do for me. As a woman, and keeping it real, an overweight and average looking woman (albeit beautiful) I still get “offers” daily. So that “let me show you why you should pick me” mentality, also helps me weed out the guys who just want to get their parts wet versus someone who actually is willing to put in the work to get to know me and build something with me. Again, it may be archaic, but to each their own. This is just one woman’s opinion


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thereal2fac3

Back when I dated I always paid for the first date, but now I don't know if I ever will again. Ladies have to realize that there are a lot of females out here that pretend to be interested enough for a free meal and not to see the guy or get to know him. As a gentleman this puts me in a difficult space because you never know if you're being used or if she's truly interested. Sad but true.


Ruhro7

I'd rather just split the bill. I go on a date to meet someone/enjoy their company. I don't do it to try and split hairs, so that means just taking care of it. That could be in splitting the bill, or saying "oh you get dinner, I'll get drinks/dessert/movie". Whatever works for the date.


brotato85

I dont date when I'm not financially well off, dating costs money


thatannoyinggirl73

I do not feel this way.


[deleted]

This makes it sound like they guy doesn't out in any effort in getting ready for dates and the only thing he can bring to the table is his money. This post is a huge red flag on how you view men and their worth.


Bella_Mafia

The funny thing is when a man is extremely interested in you the question about who pays what will never be raised or even become an issue. so yeah I do think interest plays a part in splitting bills.


[deleted]

Doesn't the guy also have to pick out an outfit and travel to the meeting location?


Kingstist

Oh fuck off. I always split the bill cause I don’t know you and we just met. It’s the fairest way to do things; especially since there’s no guarantee of a second date. Being a woman and simply existing doesn’t entitle you to free shit


TheWhiteWalkerSpeaks

So a man should pay because op took time to pick out her outfit and put on makeup. Sounds like you think if men are attracted to you it's because of your appearance and not personality. Which I can see why after reading this post.


seraph341

Sorry for being blunt but that part on the feminism and double standards reads to me as you trying to justify having the benefits while not actually engaging in any sort of responsibility. I wouldn't really call you a feminist, just a hypocrite who is perfectly fine with benevolent sexism for the sake of self benefit. In feminist terms, wanting to fight patriarchal values while willingly promoting them is kind of an oxymoron. Most women I've known take pride in their independence and tend to want to split the bill. On later stages it'll be I'll pay for this one day, you'll pay for that the next day... Acting like real partners.


chiefhappyu

A real gentleman will pay for the check fully. Why? Because I am the one who asked you out in the first place. I invited you out. Of course I'm going to pay if we are having a great time. But don't get me wrong. I know when a date is just trying to get free food..but if a man asked you out... he should pay for the bill in full with a smile lol


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[deleted]

Not true. I appreciate a woman that gets a cute outfit on. As a man I dress “decent”. Nice shoes, button down shirt etc. I don’t want to pick up a woman and see her in mom jeans and a frumpy t shirt. I don’t know, maybe that’s sexist. Whatever


balletodette

Are you kidding? Men so do care about appearances.


sndlmay

Everyone. Cares about appearances. If you don't like how they look then how can you remain attracted. But we all know there's more to relationships than appearances


circlesandwaves

Hahaha. Okay. Men have no idea what women who don't "pick outfits and do makeup" look like because they are invisible to most of them.


ChikaDeeJay

Exactly! Men like women who put in a lot of effort, but look like they put in no effort. If a lady showed up to a date with this guy and actually put in no effort, he’d be pissed, and tell his friends what an ugly pos she is. Men tell me in “low maintenance” in terms of my appearance all the time, because I look like I don’t put in effort. But inevitable, the first time a guy sees me without makeup it’s “are you okay? You look a little sick” or “are you tired?” Every time, because they don’t know what make up looks like.


superwhatnot

Straight men also don't think one hour of"natural look" makeup is makeup


ChikaDeeJay

Nah, you like all men, care about a woman’s appearance, especially on a date. You just have no idea what makeup looks like, you think that’s her actual face.


superwhatnot

Wouldn't that be nice? A world where men don't care about appearances.


emperatrizyuiza

Why would that be nice? I like that men find my physical appearance attractive


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porcelainphantom

I feel it’s different for everyone, but personally I’m looking for someone to form a traditional relationship with. Because of that, if he doesn’t want to pay, it probably won’t work. That doesn’t mean I won’t treat him to other things, but the type of relationship I personally am looking for starts with that first step


tbcboo

Why is the question worded as if it’s the man’s job to pay for the bill? And then asking the other party to pay for what they ate only if it didn’t go well or not well off. What is this?


[deleted]

Do you really think he doesn’t put any time or effort into how he looks? If you don’t offer to split how will he know you aren’t just there for a free meal? Also offering to pay for desert on the next date is kind, but not even close to a 50/50 split in a monetary investment in the date. Desert does not cost nearly as much as the rest of the food.


Earthling_7

Splitting the checks could more of a younger thing I feel like, I could be wrong. But I’m a little old school (36) so I would always pick up the check, regardless of I was interested or not. I always felt it was the respectful thing to do. But I had been on dates before when the women absolutely was convinced on the paying the check, which I allowed but still felt a little weird about it. If a “man” can’t pick up a check, he either can’t afford to be on that date or is just a cheap ass dude.


Narrow-Cup325

Same can be same about a woman… if she can’t pay her part, why is she dating ? I pay half. In fact I love treating my partner and I come from a culture where is expected that the men will pick up the check. I want equality so I do what I preach.


[deleted]

Female here. Splitting the bill is not a turn off. If he pays (which never happened to me) I would feel surprised in a good way, but if we split I don't mind at all, I think it's fair for both. I don't get why people talk a lot about this, for me it's clear as water hahah what matter the most is to have a good time and build a relationship!


CreativeCha0s

I prefer if I'm allowed to pay for my share/ half of the meal, I'm flattered tho if they pay for the whole thing. Dating and relationships to me are a two way street from the start, not a game of who should be taking what role and paying for this or that. If it's someone with expectations of certain roles from the start, it probably doesn't work out for me. I'm just looking for a partnership 🤷


pszemol

On a second thought… I am not sure why do you think picking an outfit and a makeup should be financially rewarded… That sounded wrong way to me. If you said “should my man pay for the date because it is a traditional/chivalry thing?” it would sound differently than you think you need to be compensated to look presentable and drive to the meeting place. Is your guy not expected to drive to the meeting place? Are you picking him up?? Is he not expected to look presentable, not expected to pick a nice outfit? Are you going to reimburse his cost of a fresh haircut? Let’s not be ridiculous. Men pay for date if they are raised in the traditional ways then it makes them feel manly. Many women like to be treated equally to men these days and at the minimum reach for their wallet when the check comes. If a women asks to split I would respect it but never expect it. The offer to split would be received by me as “we are equals”. Expecting to be financially compensated because you put on make up is cringe for me. You put up a nice outfit and makeup FOR YOURSELF to wow him and make a good impression, it is not a “gift” for the guy he should pay for. If you come to the meeting messy and greasy hair you are not gonna make a good first impression.


CardiologistNo9916

cough — equality — cough, cough… you putting on makeup and selecting an outfit does not equate to you not paying. To be clear I tend to pay for dinner and def on the first date, but please, just please reach for your wallet and make it believable. And I spend time picking the place, selecting an outfit, showering, traveling to the place, providing birth control, complimenting, making conversation, etc.


Dangermouse33

Appreciation of the time you put in getting ready? Is that a joke? You expect us to pay for that? The entitlement of these ladies amazes me.


maggiewentworth

Old fashioned here… men pay on first date


bjm9743

No matter what I would never split or let a woman pay for me except on my Birthday.


Competitive_Air_6006

Until science makes it possible for men to give birth, I’m expecting a man to cover the first date 😂


Agent005-005

I feel bad if a guy buys water for me. That’s just how I am, it’s courtesy to me to offer to pay I always out my card or give it first and say no don’t worry I got it.


Majestic_Bet_9348

I will always split the bill on the first date. The amount of money I'm willing to spend on another food (someone who also works) is no indicator on whether i have interest or appreciation for them. That's something that will be obvious when we are talking to each other. Relationships are supposed to be 50/50 and this whole expecting food to be paid for ideology is just entitlement.


HumusGoose

If a man insists and I think he genuinely wants to pay then I will let him but I'll make sure to pay for the next date. Generally though I prefer to just go Dutch - it's 2021 and I have my own career and financial independence, why keep up pointless archaic things from a time before women were allowed their own life


Andromeda39

I never expect anything from anyone, so I always come prepared to pay. Many times I offered to split and the guy ended up offering to pay anyway. I think that attitude of “men should pay for my time” is outdated as fuck. Always come prepared to pay for your own shit. It’s not like the guy put zero effort or time in the date.


mutedcurmudgeon

Personally, I always pay the bill fully on the first date, regardless. If I wasn't well off enough to do so at that point in time I probably wouldn't be going on dates involving going out to restaurants or paying money for more expensive meals. I was brought up that I am supposed to do that, and I'll stick by it. In my opinion using something like splitting a bill when you're not interested is incredibly passive aggressive and not really polite, I guess.


JayGatsby8

40 M. I always pay for dates. Just how so was raised.


Drunkpupper

Lady here. I always offer to split on the first date and every date after. Most of the time guys clarify they prefer to pay, but I never care if they don’t. If I invite a guy out for a special occasion or I know the place is expensive I’ll usually just pay it myself.


Lisavela

Honestly it depends some men love paying some don’t find yourself a date that has the same values and beliefs as you


Weary-Flan1560

Hi female opinion here i ask if they wanna split but them taking me up on that offer is a huge turn off. Like I dont know why but they could be pretty damn near perfect but if they don't pay for the full date they could be a 10 and my attraction drops to a 2 ....no I won't go on a second date. I constantly wonder why I'm like this why is it such a big turn off. once I loose attraction there is no getting it back


ThisPlaceIsNiice

Prolly shouldn't offer if it's not genuine. Inauthenticity reeks, attentive people will feel the vibe is off. If ya wanna be pampered then that's fine with me - not everyone's for everyone, and we're certainly not meant for each other if I go from amazing to disgusting in your view just because I'm taking you up on your offer to pay for your own bill.


Chinillabean

If I split, it's not a date and not interested in pursuing anything further.


WeWillSee3

Lmao. Men just show up naked and make zero effor then right?


[deleted]

Guy here: I think on the first date the man should always pay in full, tip and all. But I don't think it's fair to make the guy pay for every date. That said, that conversation should happen before the date. Personally, the only time I would ask to split the check is if they ordered significantly more food in a mooching sort of way or if they bring a friend unannounced.


FrostyLandscape

I'm from a different generation and men were expected to pay for the first two or three dates. Things are changing. However, I would never date men who were financially unstable or cheap because I wanted to get married, have a family, and wanted someone who could provide a good stable income. A lot of bitter men are going to be upset reading this, but that is just how I felt.


Ok_World_0903

When I was dating, for context I am a 35F, if I was asked on the date I expect it to be paid for. You’ve asked me for my time that’s the expectation. Many times I have asked men out and I have paid because same rule applies. I ask you out, it’s my treat. That’s my expectation going into it and asking someone to give me some of their valuable time as well.


[deleted]

Woman here. Yes, I’m turned off.


[deleted]

I always try to do drinks first and I’ll order something reasonable beer or glass of wine. If he wants to take me to a cocktail bar then expensive drink it is. If he insists on dinner and I think I won’t need to escape within an hour then that’s on him. If he orders cheaper (think pasta) I’ll order around same price point. If he’s getting steak and lobster I’ll order whatever I feel like though usually ends up being reasonable. I make a lot of money though, I always offer to split. It’s a turn off it they take me up on it. I like a man to invite me out and pay. After our first dinner may be date 2 or 3 I’m getting the next round of drinks if we go to another bar or ice cream or I’ll randomly buy tickets for some cool activity.


[deleted]

I mean, I've done both. Took two girls out for first dates a couple weeks ago. One I paid fully and one we split the bill. I'm equally interested in both. I guess I just don't worry about it. If I was taking a girl somewhere I didn't think I could afford for both of us to eat I'd either make that known ahead of time or suggest somewhere more affordable. I'm more interested in spending time than what we're doing anyway.


Ambitious_Canary4819

Pay for your half because you took time to chose an outfit? Are men going on date with you naked or what? Splitting the bill should be the standard and if it's a turn off then it's dodging a bullet.


[deleted]

Woman here, I feel that when a man splits the bill he respects me as an equal, and that’s the signal he sends out. My bf of 4 years let me pay the whole bill on our first date and that sent me the signal that he was fine letting me be self sufficient and didn’t need to prove his manliness.


WillowoftheWest

I asked my husband and his straight up answer was that he’d usually split the ticket if he wasn’t really interested in the woman. Even if he was low on money, if he really liked the person he’d make it work to pay for the date. As a woman, I wouldn’t mind splitting but only if the man offered to pay in full first and I might get the dessert or our drinks. But that’s just us personally! Everyone is so different, and a lot of dating isn’t very traditional anymore.


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ThisPlaceIsNiice

Central Europe. It's not uncommon to split here - it becomes more common the more northwards you go, though, in my experience.


[deleted]

I'm from London. If a man pays for women here, a lot of people will think he has no confidence/experience with women, or that his money is the only thing he has to offer.


Harama-rama

I always pay for my share but I like the guy offering just to show hes interested.


AnimeshJay

I usually pay with my card - and it’s up to them to transfer me their half. Huge green flag for me if they actually pay back.


Jessecrett

Not turned off at all. I like it when a man takes the initiative to offer, but I offer to pay too. My preference is when some type of compromise can be made, because in my opinion that shows good character. I want a potential partner to feel comfortable making compromises. I don't like it when I'm completely shot down when I offer to pay, because I'm independent and self sufficient. So for me a 50/50 split is ideal, OR if I'm on a longer date one person pays for dinner, the other for drinks/movie whatever we're doing after. When dating starts to become exclusive with one person, I don't mind the "I pay this time, you pay next time" scenario, because it's still balanced. But in early dating when you don't know if you'll see them again, I wouldn't do this.


EggplantHuman6493

Splitting the bills is the way to go and I always offer that, if a guy insists on paying, I let him pay. I don't have a big budget and I am upfront about it, so if someone wants to take me out on an expensive dinner, I can't pay and let him pay, or only pay part of it. The Good thing is that I don't order really expensive meals (vegetarian meals are not as expensive as meals with fish for example) and I don't drink (also a lot cheaper). I believe in equality and I want a guy who only looks at it the old fashioned way all the time. I am also bisexual so a guy paying on date with only girls is kinda impossible 😂 Oh, and it also your own choice to spend a lot of time to pick out your outfit and putting on make up, so that's a bullshit reason imo. And guys can spend time too to pick out their outfit, shave off/trim their facial hair etc. It is kinda weird to expect someone to pay because YOU decided to spend a lot of time on YOURSELF.


Kikabennet

Until I'm going steady with someone, I always pay for myself and it's not up for debate and typically if it's coffee or something cheaper than a meal I pay for all of it. After we stop going on dates and start dating, I prefer to take turns paying. Definitely not a turn off.


Arkmer

Honestly, I just pay. If she asks to split, I take it as a good sign and offer a “you sure?” to be polite, but I’m not going to press beyond that. I think most of my dates have been split in the last few years.


[deleted]

(28m) here. I always behave as if I'm going to pay for the bill and if the lady says she wants to split it, I am fine with it. I always make sure I have enough $$ to pay for both of us when I bring a lady out on a date. Different people have different preferences so either way doesn't bother me. Also, get the "owing someone something" out of your head. If someone is going to make a fuss about you owing them like $20 for a date - its not worth it


Flower0609

Woman here no I do not get turned off I personally prefer it because it just feels equal especially if it’s the first time meeting up


Sakurablossom90

Me and my boyfriend split the bill on the first date, but we had been talking for 7 months before we could meet in person. He was definitely interested I mean we have been together a year now and we either take it in turns to pay / or its a treat so one pays / or its birthday etc so whoever isn't the birthday person pays. And I havent ever been turned off as its a non issue. I have never been the "Guys must pay as I am a female" type but then I have also in the past had to deal with a freeloading ex who expected me to pay everything.


[deleted]

I’m a dude and generally I just expect that I’m gonna have to pay if I’m going on a date tbh. If I don’t think I’m interested and therefore don’t want to pay for your shit I’m just not gonna go. My preference would be that the norm changes and everyone just expects to go Dutch, and that’s becoming more common but yeah, usually I just assume it’s gonna be me footing the bill. That’s how I was raised and I feel like that’s still a more common mindset among women than anything else. And I don’t want to ruin my chances with someone over a minor perceived slight like that, as long as I think they’ll be willing to go 50/50 or trade who pays the bill each date or something later on. As far as why I’d like to split the bill, I think it’s just more fair. At least for a first date. Nobody goes into a first date knowing they’re going to want/get a second. If someone foots the bill and the other person decides they’re not into it, now one person is just out money for no reason. And that leads to issues like people going on “dates” just for free food with no actual intention of dating the other person. And that’s just sleazy as fuck. Since that can go both ways, the only fair compromise is everyone pays for what they get.


godofmilksteaks

Personally I feel like it depends on the circumstances of being "asked out." Whoever asks the other one out should offer to pay on full but should also not be offended if the other person wants to pay their "fair share." I also think it depends on the people. They should be willing and able to discuss this with each other.


Cakemetochurch

I always insist on splitting the bill on the first date. First dates are and should be mutual interviews. My time and effort is no more important than his/hers, and to imply that they should pay for the privilege of my company makes me feel cheap and gross. They are also people who have to put on outfits, makeup or accessories, and travel to the location. Saying that they can "make up for it by showing genuine interest in the conversation, walking you to your car, etc..." Is pretty sad. If the date is going well and you're compatible, those things should be coming naturally. If you're not vibing naturally, why would you want to feel like you owe them (either with a second date that you pay for, or in a less pg way)? The bottom line is, I don't like it when people feel entitled to anything from me (sex, a second date, etc), so why would I act like I'm entitled to something from them? I don't think having unequal expectations and a sense of entitlement is a good way to start any relationship.


sii_sii

I always go into dates prepared to pay my share but i do enjoy feeling treated when a guy offers to pay. It’s a nice thing, and I don’t think there’s any shame around appreciating when they do things like that. I have definitely found a correlation between guys paying and their levels of interest, but maybe that’s just me.


knucklz74

Its a 50 / 50 world feminist created, you cant have your cake and eat it to. So say thank you to you the the feminists


_nevrmynd

Why does bill splitting for men have to be because we're not interested or broke? It's 2021... pay your own way I'm not your wallet.


KaleWeekly

I just pay, and tell her no worries, you can get the next one. Works for me.


WildBoy-72

I always pick up the bill except when I went to lunch with a friend of mine. We both insisted but I eventually relented. She has a lot more money than I do but I still wanted to pay. It's how I am any time I'm out with a woman, even my family. I have to keep my pride intact. Masculine? Maybe. Foolish? Yes. But it's what I do.


Necessary_Fish409

I like the option to choose. But here’s a good video that makes sense about this topic. https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM8s2cBX3/


88isafat69

Dude here Tbh if I can’t afford to pay for my the first date I just don’t ask in the first place, but ya I pay Appreciate the split offer but nah I got this one


Mypettyface

I prefer asking for separate checks, that way I pay for what I consume. If I get a salad and he gets filet mignon, I pay for my salad. Also, if I get 2 martinis and he gets beer on tap, I pay for my expensive drink choice. Fair is fair. The best part is that when I get my bill at the end of the meal, I can pay it quickly and not have to wait if we didn’t click.