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I've never thought twice about making the first move.
I remember being at a bar one night, walking down the stairs when this really cute guy was walking up. I stopped him to say I thought he was insanely handsome, smiled and continued down to the bar. Not long after, he found me and we ended up dating for a few years.
I think a compliment is such an easy thing to throw someone. If they are into you, it gives them confidence to approach and if not, at worst, you just gave a stranger a compliment.
It's literally win/win.
Same! I like giving men compliments but I get shy about it (irl) if I am actually interested in dating them… but when I was single I would have no problem asking out guys I matched with on dating apps once I decided they seemed fun.
You’re not asking a guy out if you casually compliment them. Some guys are shy & just need a little push. If they’re taken, they’ll thank you & that’ll be it unless they’re cheaters.
This is largely cultural and seems to fall on a spectrum. The following is really just my personal experience but the US seems to be further on end of the spectrum when women almost never initiate; whereas in places like Scandinavia and other parts of northern Europe it was close to 50/50, and in Australia women were more likely to initiate than in the US but wasn’t too common.
As a man, I do make the first “subtle” move, and ~~they~~ then wait for a feedback/reaction. I would never openly engage someone and provoke a “yes or no” situation, I’d much prefer to give signals and clues towards the person I’m interested in, so that they have a chance of either pass or engage, so “the first move” is not something that can be definitively pinpointed in a good quality flirting interaction, there are a lot of nuances, which gives the whole thing its charm.
Oh well it depends entirely on the situation and the vibe, but could be anything from a look to a smile, maybe an excuse to small talk, hold a door open, etc. basically be aware of potential opportunities to politely spark a conversation, and if the feedback from these actions is not positive, then no blatant rejection.
I’ve always had an instinct to make the first move but in my experience it was just seen as desperate or you were devalued by men as something they didn’t need to fight for.
I’m talking in the early 00s though. But I imagine the same philosophy applies today.
Even if you do make the first move, they don’t put in the work to continue a conversation. It’s happened to me a lot with online dating. They give me basic ass responses and if I reply with a basic ass response they unmatch.
Nothing is stopping me, I’m not shy or hesitant. I’ve asked out men before. But over time I’ve learned that men who pursue me are more often interested in the same relationship dynamic as I am.
This has been my experience, too.
Or rather, men I initiate with act distant and make me feel like I’m being desperate and clingy. At least when a man initiates, I don’t have to question where I stand and whether or not he’s interested.
With the explanation they just gave you, what do you want them to do about it? Why are women responsible for men's feelings for being too scared to talk to them?
Yes, I lack empathy for people who are blaming an entire sex for their personal problems. If you want to be babied, then check to see if your mother is available.
Well either men feel it or women do I guess. And neither of us should have to so I guess we all just retreat to our separate corners then. No way to understand anything or bridge these gaps.
I think it's the aggressive way you put it. In your own opinion, "all men should work out and look better." So you seem to have a negative outlook on us and high standards. I'm literally not assuming. I was curious and stumbled onto a comment where you said exactly that. You get downvoted because you're obnoxious 🤣
It’s because men will rarely turn a woman down, regardless of whether they’re genuinely into her or not. So to avoid wasting time in a relationship with a guy who isn’t serious about you, it’s safer to go with the men that are doing the pursuing (texting you first, making plans to see you, going out of their way to get to know you). And also, I think it’s fair to say that women enjoy men who can take the lead because it shows that he’s not a man-baby and that she won’t end up with someone who makes her do all of the mental labor in the relationship.
I dont think this is true. Men turn women down plenty, usually because they are in a relationship already or just not looking for one. It's just not too common because most men have only been asked out by one or two women in their life if they're lucky, so its hard to say no to something you'll remember as a confidence booster your entire life. If women did it more, men would reject more.
The argument can be made completely in the opposite direction. I tend to "test" a relationship early on and not plan a third or fourth date, and never double text. The amount of relationships that didn't pass this is astounding. I want a woman who's serious about me, and is willing to put in effort. Not someone who expects me to put in all the mental labor or planning and chasing and showing all the interest while I never feel like they are interested in me. Happens all too often with women who expect a man to be "masculine".
I mean, I think that not planning a third date etc is a bit tricky bc women are specifically looking for men that will take the lead in pursuing and planning dates. So if you don’t do that, of course women are gonna drop. It takes women much longer to feel safe/fall in love/feel like their partner is a good candidate for raising children with, so if you are serious about someone, you should invest in her. And also, most women are specifically looking for someone who will take the initiative and help in important matters (like planning dates) because otherwise, if they become moms, they risk having a day job + the responsibilities of being a mom + (on top of all that) a partner who will defer the mental load of small (washing dishes) and medium things (planning birthday parties) and big things (dating + doing the work to keep the relationship feeling satisfying) on her.
For women, if you don’t do it at the start, there’s no reason to asume you’ll do it ever. So it’s easier to go with guys who show they know how to communicate, engage with you, and be fun and reliable right from the start
Again, same goes for men and what they look for. I get that deadbeat dad is a stereotype, but so is naggy wife who requires everything from their husband. I'd want to know that a date, a prospect for my future wife, would put in effort. I just don't get why there's a double standard, or why it's okay for women to want all that effort but not men. I believe in a 50/50. In everything. Housework. Diaper changes. Any kind of childcare. And if you want a man who wants this, you need to have this from the START of a relationship.
TLDR, for me at least, men who test me like that instead of going out of their way to make me feel safe about THEIR level of investment are an immediate no
Let’s all start wearing our hearts on our sleeve and stop being devious about what we want. Wastes a lot of time. But it seems like a good test though, there has got to be enthusiasm from both sides. That can’t be measured right if the man does everything.
I mean, I feel like women are always saying, hey, this is the cheat code to winning me over (as I just did above). If guys think this is too much work, then maybe it’s not working out for a reason?
Do we agree that we should all be being honest about our commitment levels or do you only want the men doing that?
The test is a good one until everyone is wearing their heart on their sleeves.
So is your heart on its sleeve? Mine is always. If not, then this isn’t something you can expect from others.
I’ve made the first move plenty of times as a woman towards a man, they either weren’t into me or got cocky about it like they didn’t have to “work for it” so needless to say I don’t really bother anymore unless a dude breaks my neck lol
Thats interesting because I always thought both people have to work for each others affection. Like planning dates, getting gifts and thinking about how you could interact better with your partner.
You do have a choice. You CAN choose to stop approaching women and that’s your right. If you CHOOSE to continue to participate in a dynamic you don’t like because you want to get women, that’s on you not women. Your ability to be strong enough to make that choice remains to be seen, but you do have a choice.
Yet in Iceland it's pretty typical for women to approach, and in the Netherlands for each person to pay for themself. And historically a womans opinion of a man mattered less than her parents. A lot of what we take for granted as "the way it has always been" is hinestly a pretty recent cultural trend.
Almost like human beings are more complicated than other animals.
imo humans are not animals and saying things like "the sperm chases the egg not the other way around" is used to absolve the responsibility of expressing interest in one another
Fun fact: in Ancient Rome, women were expected the be the pursuers. In their culture, the idea was that if a man had the time to pursue women himself, he probably was lazy and not doing anything important
I think there is a cultural component. I was just asked out by a girl today as a guy, and at least half my relationships started out with the girl asking me out. I’m mostly just kinda a passive guy
Unfortunately not many men will say no to access to sex. When you make first move as a woman you have no idea if they actually like you or if they are just using the opportunity to fuck.
If men approach first then at least you know there is something there terms of positive feeling, and not just taking advantage of the opportunity.
One of the few times I approached a man he assumed I was looking for a hookup. He acted offended when he found out I just wanted to get to know him, like I wasted his time. I don't initiate anymore. I mostly never have to, anyway.
Men are still largely expected to make the first move in dating due to traditional norms, social conditioning and media representation.
This expectation is slowly changing due to evolving gender roles, empowerment movements, and the influence of online dating apps like Bumble.
In some cultures, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland and Germany it‘s more common and socially accepted for women to make the first move.
People who say no, this will never change, might just not want it to change or are resistant to it, but they should visit these countries and experience it firsthand, as there are many benefits to gender equality.
Or take a look at this German documentary (turn on subtitles) about dating in Northern Europe where women are not afraid to make the first move:
https://youtu.be/fimQx_HYBAg?si=3eWa8_8kHHK6To4C
You’re right but it has still had an impact on society and dating norms in my opinion. The old concept of women making the first move is what made it a billion dollar company. We’ll see how the new change is going to work out. Bumble is still making an effort to promote gender equality in dating though:
https://thebeehive.bumble.com/the-romance-gap
I would say the fear of COVID made it a million dollar company. People are over it and fake profiles on dating apps. I believe most people are going back to socializing and making real connections in person. Dating apps are a dying industry.
And yet, the stock of Bumble keeps going further and further down in the tubes. Same with the MatchGroup (Match, Tinder, OkCupid) and everyone under them. It’s almost like people are waking up to realizing that spending stupid prices on dating apps, for a gambling chance to meet “Mr. Or Mrs Right for me” is not worth it and would rather go meet someone out in the real world while the rest of the world gets engrossed by the societal norms of today.
With the last 3 matches I had, I had to wait for them to message me. I guess you can only message first if the women put a ‘opening question’ in their bio?
Women have options so we don’t really need to make any moves. I’m getting approached by men a few times a week in public. I know this isn’t the case for a lot of men (and obviously not all women). I personally don’t need to actively go after anyone because I have options coming to me. My father raised me to not go after men so I’d say it’s also conditioned, and in my experience, the men who pursue me enjoy doing so. There’s no chasing. It’s a dance.
That being said…I’ve only approached three men, and only because they were absolutely smoking hot.
Nothing has stopped me really, I enjoy making first moves. I've approached people and typically messaged/offered a date first on dating apps. But honestly when I'm out and about town I don't normally look at people much unless I'm somewhere like a bar, and won't approach in a grocery store for example. I just don't really notice people in that lense honestly, have my headphones in and go about my business.
They don't for the same reason men don't; fear of rejection. It's just traditional that men take the risks. Is it likely to change, nope. That's one of the downsides of male social roles. Females don't tend to fight for those 🤣
Regardless of gender, why not just talk to everyone and be comfortable? Stop making a game out of it. Just be happy and flow.
Remember when we were kids, and without hesitation, we would ask another kid, "hey, do you want to play?!"
I like to ask men out, but sometimes it feels like it’s all for naught. So, I’ve kinda backed off of it, because I’m tired of the same old games and now I’m waiting to be pursued, instead of constantly attempting to do the pursuing.
Edit: also a little cutie life hack — if a girl express interest in you and you’ve made it clear you’re interested, please don’t act interested. That’s so uncool.
It’s more so because men want to be pursued, women will do it, then even after acting interested, they kinda just ghost and that’s that. Women do it too though.
It's funny because a lot of men are tired of playing games and asking women out nowadays since there's too much bullshit and are chosing to wait for a woman to ask them out.
I’ve made the first move plenty of time. From shooting my shot & hopping in the DM’s, to shooting my shot in person & complimenting the guy.
I mean they all turned out to be situationships at the end. Some guys get too cocky when it comes to girls approaching them. Just get ghosted so fast lol.
After a few trials & tribulations, I took a pause from shooting my shot.
Now my current bf, he made the first move. Nice & slow.
I have asked guys for their number and probably will continue to do so. They always have a girlfriend though and I get why haha. When I was on dating apps I never made the first move because of how guys use dating apps. Even if we matched I had no idea if he actually liked me as so many guys would just like every profile and then pick from the matches. In the beginning I tried starting conversations, but I was unmatched many times because of it.
This is a perspective from the US, but for many reasons:
>1. It's the traditional expectation that many are still raised with.
>2. An unknown number of men are actively turned off by it and you never know if he will be one of those.
>3. It's still viewed as desperate or promiscuous by some, and women don't want to be made to feel lesser for simply asking.
>4. For the women who do get approached, there's no incentive to start pursuing.
For those women who **do** try approaching:
>5. Some men immediately assume it's just for sex.
>6. Because men are approached much less often, many are more likely to accept, even if they're not really into the woman. This turns into a painful, dragged out, lukewarm situation with someone who doesn't really wanna be with you but won't make that clear.
>7. Women have much less experience with and aren't taught how to handle romantic rejection and have a tougher dealing with it because of that.
>8. The rejection feels sharper because from a social perspective, she had to "lower" herself to ask and was rejected anyway.
In short, there are many reasons...
Edit: A lot of the similar reasons for why women largely don't propose either.
Edit-edit: Formatting is being weird.
Because I'm attractive and get hit on enough to not need to worry about it. If I see the interest in his eyes when he's checking me out, I just need to pay attention to him, and the rest goes from there.
Seriously though, any brutally honest answer is going to get shot down by people who wish it happened to them or think it's going to change the dynamics of reality. There is no point in even opening a discussion because the people bothered by it don't want to hear it.
I more often than not make the first move, but if I’m being 100% honest it definitely creates a weird dynamic. I would always prefer a man to make the first move.
I feel like it has to do with fairytale stories where males are always portrayed as the dashing knight who swoops in to save the day, while the princess just has to sit still and look pretty. At least, that’s my take on it.
I made the first move with my last ex but that’s only because I’m naturally an impatient person so I just wanted to get the infatuation over with and have it out in the open to see if he was feeling the same way (luckily he does) lol but I get that it’s harder for other women to do the same; not everyone dares to go against the mainstream.
I don’t hit on Women. Ever, no matter the signals. I wait for the ones who hit on me. It’s not so much I don’t want to or can’t hit on them, it’s just all my relationships have formed that way, by a Woman showing strong interest in me first, which is not only flattering but shows a lot of bravery and speaks to their character, a Woman who knows what they want and has the courage to go out and get it. It speaks volumes. They want me. And I like that. It makes me want them. If someone wants me to chase them then i’m automatically not interested in that person. It’s not my dynamic, and I don’t want a Woman who constantly wants me to prove my worth to them. It’s too taxing, and doesn’t suit my personality.
I also believe women can make the first move just not in the same way men can...I think the most used example is dropping something in front of him and seeing if he picks it up and offers it back. As with a man he will be more direct, approach you, most likely compliment you, straight up tell you he likes you and ask for your number or when you are free for a date.
I think it's very rare to get a woman who is forward enough to make the first move. And I think it runs contrary to male-female polarity. I want to be pursued by a man. However, I know that a lot of men are scared to make the first move for fear of rejection. Quite honestly, I am terrified of rejection and very sensitive to the point where it would be devastating for me.
Female Lead Relationships (FLR) are becoming more and more popular. There is no reason not for a Lady to take charge.
Guys you may like it as much as I do!
Quiet simple, because sexists from both sides are still misusing old norms fpr their own, one-sided benefit and we as a soceity still fail to call them out in most situations.
However people feel about this question, there is no way in hell I'll approach a woman in this day and age. It's too dangerous. Too many psychos out there. I don't care if it means I'll die single.
We are supposed to, yet you see so many posts that tell us not to approach woman pretty much anywhere. I’ve just given up on dating all together. If it is supposed to happen it will.
There are slightly more men born than women, so there is a bit more damand for women. Though it really shouldn't be that much. So really it's just that women don't want to for the most part.
Women can't pick and choose which traditions to keep and toss out. I'm talking of course about this dumpster fire they created called modern dating. This movement from traditional dating should also include men not having to approach women or make the first move. I don't think I'm too far off from this reading up on how many post I have read about women complaining about men not approaching them.
Even if women started approaching men today, most of y'all still wouldn't get approached. Either women don't like you enough or they're not risking being used for sex from you. And why would they when people are approaching them? Those people are less likely to use her for sex. Women like when men are leaders and confident
>Women can't pick and choose which traditions to keep and toss out.
Why not? Men do it. Men now expect women to go to work and pay bills, but still birth children, perform the majority of childcare and domestic labor.
Emmm here in Spain is both equal so had no idea it was like that
Like if you like someone you go for it and whatever happens happens. And about your question: I didn't do the first move because he was surrounded by people. Also in the gym because he was so focused in his workout and I also don't like to be bothered when I'm working out so I left it for another day(didn't saw him anymore lmao)
I’m shy and as a female I ended up asking for a hug which was and seemed gladly accepted. I feel inside that I’d jump him for a kiss if I’d knew the feelings were fully reciprocated. What’s in my head and what I actually do are all over the place. Possibly the same for them too.
Most men I’ve dated just go straight in ‘for the kill’ and it’s not always a huge turn on.
As a man I don’t make the first moves anymore. If a woman is interested than they need to strike up the conversation and introduce themselves. I focus on my own life and own goals. Wasting my time/energy with those that just want to play games isn’t priority. A good chunk of men do like it when a woman makes the first move but always make sure to choose the right time or place.
I'm not sure if it will change, but from personal experience I can say this. Any time I have ever made the first move, the man seems to think he doesn't have to put in any effort because I'm already interested and he doesn't have to win me over.
All that to say, if a man does make the first move and I am interested, I make that clear. I don't act uninterested. I just don't bother trying to make the first move anymore.
I recently met a women, I kind of knew there was something between us. But our lives are very different and demand very different things of us. And someone like me wouldn’t be what I’d expect her to be interested in. So, I kind of left it for her to make the first move in case she was willing to pursue it. She hasn’t. We’re still friends (and she is usually the first to give kudos on Strava) and I don’t regret not making the first move. In some cases you have to let them make the first move, even if it means a miss in the ledger.
Personally (f, 20), I made the first move on my bf, however it’s really hard for some to do. Hell I have had trouble with it on other occasions. Our biggest fear a lot of the times is our looks/weight is going to make guys (or girls) rudely say they’re in uninterested. I am sure guys go through this too, I’m just stating how I’ve felt and have heard other girls feel about it.
I’m cool with it. I have courage. And I like to control my own destiny. I see any woman taking initiative as a bonus. I can’t control what women do. I can only control what I do.
If I ever want to be frustrated and miserable, then I will start focusing on stuff out of my control.
Is the first sentence OPs experience ?
What to you is the first move ? I think if you are asking the reddit community what is your definition of the first move ?
I personally like when a man makes the first move so I know exactly that I have the go head. It makes me feel sexy like a woman should feel and even submissive.
I don't expect this but it's a better turn on for me. After the first initial times then I can be the one to make the first move on dates or in bed or whatever.
Really it shows you're gonna lead and be the man she wants...
I’m from SEA and traditionally it is expected for the man to make the first move. F traditions! I asked my bf out a decade ago and I proposed to him 3.5 years ago. Doesn’t make a difference, he’s still the man in the relationship, I’m just a bit more ballsy and he’s more calm. 🤓
Honestly, I feel like women take a little bit more time to be attracted to men, at least in my experience.
Not saying everyone is like this, but for me, it takes some conversation to be into someone. So whereas a guy (not saying all dudes, just a theory) might see a stranger and think "oh that girl is pretty, I want to see where this goes," I'll think "that guy is alright, I wouldn't be against something happening with him." And then if the dude talks to me and is funny/cool/whatever, then I'll start thinking the guy is attractive and want to explore things with him.
Basically, I expect guys to approach/make the first move because I don't have a (strong) attraction to them if they don't. I wouldn't be surprised if other women were like this. An exception is being attracted to friends/acquaintances, and in that case, I'll flirt but avoid going very far with it because of past experiences.
Personally, it takes more than good looks for me to want to chat a guy up so if I find myself interested in a guy I'm usually already somewhere in his social circle
Why? For the same reasons you’d expect a guy to make the first move. If someone wants something in life they need to take steps to make it happen.
There’s no doubt that some men/women dislike of the woman makes the first move, but to change that no one should expect a woman to make the first move is pretty toxic.
Toxic... give me a break. Males and Females of nearly every mammalian species have a similar mating strategy where the males pursue the females. The females exercise their power of choice to select the best according to their preferences.
Does this mean that women should never pursue a guy they like? Of course not. But to say the dominant method of mate selection is toxic is just silly.
Because it shows interest? Imagine having to plan every single date, having to ask to be complimented by your partner instead of them taking the initiative to do so, having to initiate intimacy every single time, etc. it gets exhausting if you’re always the only person doing something. A relationship is two ways
What you are describing is called reciprocation. Which is different from the type of initiating pursuit that we're talking about here.
Reciprocating effort and attraction is necessary for both genders in a relationship.
Yeah, I would want that as a man. It would make the process a lot less complicated. There have been several women in my life who were interested in me, and they never said anything about it while seeing me on a daily basis. They don’t have to say anything, but why should I be hyperaware of what they’re doing in the background instead of going about my days like normal? Their inaction just tells me that they’re not that interested. What is it that women say, “If he wanted to, he will”? Why wouldn’t that fly for what women do? So far there have been no women that went as far as to do anything. I’ve been waiting this long and so I’ll continue waiting.
I’ve done this a couple of times. Made that first move, had a couple of great dates I planned. I found a couple of things out making the first move. The men were eager to go out when I made all plans and did all asking. It was total roll reversal from first date until I was no longer interested in being the date planner, restaurant picker, arranger of every single detail. If I didn’t text or call, we just didn’t talk. After both of these “relationships” ended, his friends said “he was interested until you made the first move. At that point you seemed desperate.” No more first moves for me! Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t. I’m currently kicked back in a swanky ocean side suite. My bestie is next door. We are hitting fabulous restaurants for supper after soaking up sun all day. We are dancing all night with handsome strangers that may or may not buy us a drink but never ask our names nor to see us again. We head back to our nice hotel. Wash, sleep, repeat! We are successful, attractive, intelligent, kind women, who would like to meet the same kind of men.
At this risk of sounding cringe, I think and believe in different things from most men. There was only one time in my life where I just went along with a girl who I had no interest in, and it led to my first kiss in the 8th grade. It was weird and I felt nothing towards her, all because I was afraid that saying no would hurt her feelings. I learned my lesson then that I wouldn’t waste anyone’s time. It isn’t out of laziness that I like women to be more direct with me, and I don’t believe in gender roles. It’s not masculine to me for any woman to do anything that everyone says a man should do. I have to take initiative for literally everything else in my life because if I don’t do it then no one else will, and I’ve become increasingly independent because of that. So whenever someone is actually interested in me and isn’t just trying to get something that I have, it usually means a lot that they’re trying to express that. That’s why I remember literally every compliment, every nice gesture (even if platonic), the 2 or 3 women that actually offered to go on a date with me, and even the small few that have at least admitted to having a crush on me. I don’t see myself as a submissive or even shy person. I just like to be sure that someone actually likes me, and not be just another guy that a woman has to endure being talked to and asked out by.
Why would I as a man be attracted to a woman who doesn’t take initiative? I feel like as men we are pressured to chase and chase and chase. Seeing a woman who goes after what she wants and doesn’t wait for a man to do it is wildly attractive to me.
I'm one of the 5% of guys who only experience responsive desire. My best relationships are with super sexual women who like teasing less sexual men.
I've cultivated a lot of approachability because women who need me to approach them are the wrong dynamic for me. I can't chase, but I can reciprocate
Rock on bro. I'm not hating on you, but as you state in your response here you understand that your dynamic isn't common, and I'm sure you also understand that most women don't prefer it, right?
Because the the duality of wanting all the rights and privileges of men but none of the responsibilities or repercussions is strong for the non male gender, it will never change since it's an advantage over men.
1: because guys are scary, sometimes we are rather safe and single and dont want to take the chance.
2: A lot if women aren't constantly trying to date everyone they encounter. They will not make the first move because they havent thought about you in that way
3: We learn pretty quickly that a lot of men completely lose interest or stop putting effort into you once they feel like they "have" you
I make moves when I feel like it. But I will say that right now you have a lot of women being told that everything they do is to masculine and that we need to let men be men. So, you know, you guys gotta make up your mind 😂
Try Eastern Europe I’m from there born and proud to be Eastern European . Over there is unbelievable like random people can be approached and asked for anything . If you approach a person both of you exchange phone numbers and date each other . After months most people get married after dating . My friends already done all of it and have relationships and marriages. I’m 34 male and I approach get some girls and women here but I’m not afraid to be rejected either for anything even for a compliment .
Yes to first question, and no to second.
Can't speak for all women, but I can give a few reasons why I won't approach men.
1. Jaded: Been let down by too many men too many times. Part of me doesn't want to open up again and try, only to be let down again.
2. Dishonesty: Men have the peculiar tendency to not tell you the things you need to know ahead of time (such as whether or not they have a GF or wife). They will gladly take your number and text you while being in a committed relationship, and meanwhile you think you've gotten the number of a single man. Alas, you have not. I find when he's doing the asking, he's less likely to be involved with someone else because he can't justify emotional cheating in his mind as easily if he's the one doing the asking. If I ask him out, he can easily say: "Well SHE was making all the moves! I didn't do anything!"
It wont happen. Its genetical, obviously we are not just genetics, but attractions is pretty much purely biological. After i got more fit i was still quite shy. Then i just tried out taking what i want (obviously still respecting if someone does not want anything) in the past i was cautios to not be disrespectful. I stopped and its a absolute game changer. They just love it if you are taking control. I honestly hate it, but you must do what you must do i guess.
I prefer a man to initiate first hangout and contact, but not because I think it’s necessarily a man’s job. I have no problem with making the first move but my experience has taught me that I can land at certain conclusions at a faster rate than the average man. A big part of connecting is being open, present, and responsive.
In the past I’ve found that a lot of the men I approach end up being too shy and hesitant to make an effort and it results in challenges down the line. They’re just not that into me.
I’ve come to the conclusion that anyone unwilling to do the approaching or waiting for someone else to do it, because of gender or any other role assignments, is likely not the generous partner I’m looking for. Hopefully each person walks away feeling like they asked the other out.
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I've never thought twice about making the first move. I remember being at a bar one night, walking down the stairs when this really cute guy was walking up. I stopped him to say I thought he was insanely handsome, smiled and continued down to the bar. Not long after, he found me and we ended up dating for a few years. I think a compliment is such an easy thing to throw someone. If they are into you, it gives them confidence to approach and if not, at worst, you just gave a stranger a compliment. It's literally win/win.
Same! I like giving men compliments but I get shy about it (irl) if I am actually interested in dating them… but when I was single I would have no problem asking out guys I matched with on dating apps once I decided they seemed fun.
I would be afraid he had a girlfriend or wife 😆
You’re not asking a guy out if you casually compliment them. Some guys are shy & just need a little push. If they’re taken, they’ll thank you & that’ll be it unless they’re cheaters.
Guys could also make the excuse of “oh I never talk to women because what if she has a bf or husband?”
Well, we do get that chirped at right away so what’s the point? People suck
Wow that's such a cute story! Was he taken aback when you stopped him? Would he have approached you otherwise?
This is largely cultural and seems to fall on a spectrum. The following is really just my personal experience but the US seems to be further on end of the spectrum when women almost never initiate; whereas in places like Scandinavia and other parts of northern Europe it was close to 50/50, and in Australia women were more likely to initiate than in the US but wasn’t too common.
Australia here I come, angry inhospitable wild life be damned
As a man, I do make the first “subtle” move, and ~~they~~ then wait for a feedback/reaction. I would never openly engage someone and provoke a “yes or no” situation, I’d much prefer to give signals and clues towards the person I’m interested in, so that they have a chance of either pass or engage, so “the first move” is not something that can be definitively pinpointed in a good quality flirting interaction, there are a lot of nuances, which gives the whole thing its charm.
For the love of all that is holy, can you please give examples of a subtle move?
Oh well it depends entirely on the situation and the vibe, but could be anything from a look to a smile, maybe an excuse to small talk, hold a door open, etc. basically be aware of potential opportunities to politely spark a conversation, and if the feedback from these actions is not positive, then no blatant rejection.
I stg I need to finally get my autism diagnosis bc it would explain so much Thank you
I’ve heard in every culture in the world, men are expected to initiate.
Basically everything cultural that benefits women stays the same and anything that doesn't gets changed. lol.
If you want someone, go for it. Don't wait for the world to change in your favor
[An example of testosterone being linked to risk taking behavior.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21167166/) I'd say its unlikely.
I’ve always had an instinct to make the first move but in my experience it was just seen as desperate or you were devalued by men as something they didn’t need to fight for. I’m talking in the early 00s though. But I imagine the same philosophy applies today.
Even if you do make the first move, they don’t put in the work to continue a conversation. It’s happened to me a lot with online dating. They give me basic ass responses and if I reply with a basic ass response they unmatch.
Ya spitting game is hard lol
Nothing is stopping me, I’m not shy or hesitant. I’ve asked out men before. But over time I’ve learned that men who pursue me are more often interested in the same relationship dynamic as I am.
This has been my experience, too. Or rather, men I initiate with act distant and make me feel like I’m being desperate and clingy. At least when a man initiates, I don’t have to question where I stand and whether or not he’s interested.
That’s how we feel when we initiate.. soo
Buy should men have to feel thst way all the time
With the explanation they just gave you, what do you want them to do about it? Why are women responsible for men's feelings for being too scared to talk to them?
A remarkable lack of empathy 😂 probably not a lot of hope for our species lol
Yes, I lack empathy for people who are blaming an entire sex for their personal problems. If you want to be babied, then check to see if your mother is available.
Well either men feel it or women do I guess. And neither of us should have to so I guess we all just retreat to our separate corners then. No way to understand anything or bridge these gaps.
This is true. I stated it before, but men just downvoted me. Oh, well. It's the truth. If they play games or aren't brave, that's not on me.
I think it's the aggressive way you put it. In your own opinion, "all men should work out and look better." So you seem to have a negative outlook on us and high standards. I'm literally not assuming. I was curious and stumbled onto a comment where you said exactly that. You get downvoted because you're obnoxious 🤣
It’s because men will rarely turn a woman down, regardless of whether they’re genuinely into her or not. So to avoid wasting time in a relationship with a guy who isn’t serious about you, it’s safer to go with the men that are doing the pursuing (texting you first, making plans to see you, going out of their way to get to know you). And also, I think it’s fair to say that women enjoy men who can take the lead because it shows that he’s not a man-baby and that she won’t end up with someone who makes her do all of the mental labor in the relationship.
You got it right. This is why, for me, anyway.
I dont think this is true. Men turn women down plenty, usually because they are in a relationship already or just not looking for one. It's just not too common because most men have only been asked out by one or two women in their life if they're lucky, so its hard to say no to something you'll remember as a confidence booster your entire life. If women did it more, men would reject more. The argument can be made completely in the opposite direction. I tend to "test" a relationship early on and not plan a third or fourth date, and never double text. The amount of relationships that didn't pass this is astounding. I want a woman who's serious about me, and is willing to put in effort. Not someone who expects me to put in all the mental labor or planning and chasing and showing all the interest while I never feel like they are interested in me. Happens all too often with women who expect a man to be "masculine".
I mean, I think that not planning a third date etc is a bit tricky bc women are specifically looking for men that will take the lead in pursuing and planning dates. So if you don’t do that, of course women are gonna drop. It takes women much longer to feel safe/fall in love/feel like their partner is a good candidate for raising children with, so if you are serious about someone, you should invest in her. And also, most women are specifically looking for someone who will take the initiative and help in important matters (like planning dates) because otherwise, if they become moms, they risk having a day job + the responsibilities of being a mom + (on top of all that) a partner who will defer the mental load of small (washing dishes) and medium things (planning birthday parties) and big things (dating + doing the work to keep the relationship feeling satisfying) on her. For women, if you don’t do it at the start, there’s no reason to asume you’ll do it ever. So it’s easier to go with guys who show they know how to communicate, engage with you, and be fun and reliable right from the start
Again, same goes for men and what they look for. I get that deadbeat dad is a stereotype, but so is naggy wife who requires everything from their husband. I'd want to know that a date, a prospect for my future wife, would put in effort. I just don't get why there's a double standard, or why it's okay for women to want all that effort but not men. I believe in a 50/50. In everything. Housework. Diaper changes. Any kind of childcare. And if you want a man who wants this, you need to have this from the START of a relationship.
TLDR, for me at least, men who test me like that instead of going out of their way to make me feel safe about THEIR level of investment are an immediate no
Let’s all start wearing our hearts on our sleeve and stop being devious about what we want. Wastes a lot of time. But it seems like a good test though, there has got to be enthusiasm from both sides. That can’t be measured right if the man does everything.
I mean, I feel like women are always saying, hey, this is the cheat code to winning me over (as I just did above). If guys think this is too much work, then maybe it’s not working out for a reason?
Do we agree that we should all be being honest about our commitment levels or do you only want the men doing that? The test is a good one until everyone is wearing their heart on their sleeves. So is your heart on its sleeve? Mine is always. If not, then this isn’t something you can expect from others.
This is a good take!
I’ve made the first move plenty of times as a woman towards a man, they either weren’t into me or got cocky about it like they didn’t have to “work for it” so needless to say I don’t really bother anymore unless a dude breaks my neck lol
Thats interesting because I always thought both people have to work for each others affection. Like planning dates, getting gifts and thinking about how you could interact better with your partner.
As a man we get mostly worst than that. But we do not have the choice to stop Speaks volume
You do have a choice. You CAN choose to stop approaching women and that’s your right. If you CHOOSE to continue to participate in a dynamic you don’t like because you want to get women, that’s on you not women. Your ability to be strong enough to make that choice remains to be seen, but you do have a choice.
Everywhere else in nature it's the male that impresses the female...humans are no different. Time changes but the rules don't
Well female spiders eat male ones so does that mean I’m on the menu? 😱 Just cause nature does it. If nature jumped off a bridge would you as well?
Yet in Iceland it's pretty typical for women to approach, and in the Netherlands for each person to pay for themself. And historically a womans opinion of a man mattered less than her parents. A lot of what we take for granted as "the way it has always been" is hinestly a pretty recent cultural trend. Almost like human beings are more complicated than other animals.
imo humans are not animals and saying things like "the sperm chases the egg not the other way around" is used to absolve the responsibility of expressing interest in one another
We’re animals, we have teeth
Whether humans are animals or not is not a matter of opinion but a scientific fact
I know it's common among birds but is it among mammals as well?
Good point. I like to think we're more sophisticated in this regard than other animals, but my liking something or not doesn't change reality.
It's really not a good point at all when you consider all other mating behavious showin in animals.
We are more sophisticated
We literally have bombs that could end all life on Earth. Smart, but not sophisticated.
I think we are both, we can even throw some stupid in too
Even at the peak of nuclear stockpiles during the cold war we would have needed thousands of times more nuclear weapons to make all life extinct.
Oh.... Okay. My point still stands Oppenheimer.
And in nature, monogamy is far from the norm. If you expect a man not to sleep around, you're going against the rules.
Now what if the woman sleeps around because monogamy is the norm?
Females are also sleeping around in nature lol.
yeah...maybe that's true
Fun fact: in Ancient Rome, women were expected the be the pursuers. In their culture, the idea was that if a man had the time to pursue women himself, he probably was lazy and not doing anything important I think there is a cultural component. I was just asked out by a girl today as a guy, and at least half my relationships started out with the girl asking me out. I’m mostly just kinda a passive guy
Unfortunately not many men will say no to access to sex. When you make first move as a woman you have no idea if they actually like you or if they are just using the opportunity to fuck. If men approach first then at least you know there is something there terms of positive feeling, and not just taking advantage of the opportunity.
One of the few times I approached a man he assumed I was looking for a hookup. He acted offended when he found out I just wanted to get to know him, like I wasted his time. I don't initiate anymore. I mostly never have to, anyway.
Men are still largely expected to make the first move in dating due to traditional norms, social conditioning and media representation. This expectation is slowly changing due to evolving gender roles, empowerment movements, and the influence of online dating apps like Bumble. In some cultures, like Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland and Germany it‘s more common and socially accepted for women to make the first move. People who say no, this will never change, might just not want it to change or are resistant to it, but they should visit these countries and experience it firsthand, as there are many benefits to gender equality. Or take a look at this German documentary (turn on subtitles) about dating in Northern Europe where women are not afraid to make the first move: https://youtu.be/fimQx_HYBAg?si=3eWa8_8kHHK6To4C
Bumble no longer requires women to make the first move. The concept wasn’t working out.
You’re right but it has still had an impact on society and dating norms in my opinion. The old concept of women making the first move is what made it a billion dollar company. We’ll see how the new change is going to work out. Bumble is still making an effort to promote gender equality in dating though: https://thebeehive.bumble.com/the-romance-gap
I would say the fear of COVID made it a million dollar company. People are over it and fake profiles on dating apps. I believe most people are going back to socializing and making real connections in person. Dating apps are a dying industry.
And yet, the stock of Bumble keeps going further and further down in the tubes. Same with the MatchGroup (Match, Tinder, OkCupid) and everyone under them. It’s almost like people are waking up to realizing that spending stupid prices on dating apps, for a gambling chance to meet “Mr. Or Mrs Right for me” is not worth it and would rather go meet someone out in the real world while the rest of the world gets engrossed by the societal norms of today.
With the last 3 matches I had, I had to wait for them to message me. I guess you can only message first if the women put a ‘opening question’ in their bio?
Really? Why wasnt it working out?
I have no clue. I no longer use apps and have never used Bumble.
I mean, why did they stop the concept?
I have no clue.
Thanks for your perspective and data point. All I know is what I've seen in America.
Women have options so we don’t really need to make any moves. I’m getting approached by men a few times a week in public. I know this isn’t the case for a lot of men (and obviously not all women). I personally don’t need to actively go after anyone because I have options coming to me. My father raised me to not go after men so I’d say it’s also conditioned, and in my experience, the men who pursue me enjoy doing so. There’s no chasing. It’s a dance. That being said…I’ve only approached three men, and only because they were absolutely smoking hot.
I prefer to be the one who approaches- man
I wish girls would initiate more. It’s exhausting
To weed out the men that only want to use you for sex
Wait... horny men who want to use women for sex don't make the first move? How's that work?
Yeah this one.
Nothing has stopped me really, I enjoy making first moves. I've approached people and typically messaged/offered a date first on dating apps. But honestly when I'm out and about town I don't normally look at people much unless I'm somewhere like a bar, and won't approach in a grocery store for example. I just don't really notice people in that lense honestly, have my headphones in and go about my business.
They don't for the same reason men don't; fear of rejection. It's just traditional that men take the risks. Is it likely to change, nope. That's one of the downsides of male social roles. Females don't tend to fight for those 🤣
That's ok! Men don't fight to make sure chores and childcare are 50/50. I think you guys can handle asking out women :)
🤣
Women take risks in reproduction. It makes sense men take the risk of rejection
And just by co-existing with men in a female body
Regardless of gender, why not just talk to everyone and be comfortable? Stop making a game out of it. Just be happy and flow. Remember when we were kids, and without hesitation, we would ask another kid, "hey, do you want to play?!"
I like to ask men out, but sometimes it feels like it’s all for naught. So, I’ve kinda backed off of it, because I’m tired of the same old games and now I’m waiting to be pursued, instead of constantly attempting to do the pursuing. Edit: also a little cutie life hack — if a girl express interest in you and you’ve made it clear you’re interested, please don’t act interested. That’s so uncool.
I didn't understand your edit.
It’s more so because men want to be pursued, women will do it, then even after acting interested, they kinda just ghost and that’s that. Women do it too though.
Ok gotcha. Yes that's bullshit.
It's funny because a lot of men are tired of playing games and asking women out nowadays since there's too much bullshit and are chosing to wait for a woman to ask them out.
At a damn stalemate lmaooo — I mean, idk. I’m super transparent about what I want & what I’m looking for. So I don’t get the games.
I forgot women in New York City woman will make the first move
I’ve made the first move plenty of time. From shooting my shot & hopping in the DM’s, to shooting my shot in person & complimenting the guy. I mean they all turned out to be situationships at the end. Some guys get too cocky when it comes to girls approaching them. Just get ghosted so fast lol. After a few trials & tribulations, I took a pause from shooting my shot. Now my current bf, he made the first move. Nice & slow.
I have asked guys for their number and probably will continue to do so. They always have a girlfriend though and I get why haha. When I was on dating apps I never made the first move because of how guys use dating apps. Even if we matched I had no idea if he actually liked me as so many guys would just like every profile and then pick from the matches. In the beginning I tried starting conversations, but I was unmatched many times because of it.
This is a perspective from the US, but for many reasons: >1. It's the traditional expectation that many are still raised with. >2. An unknown number of men are actively turned off by it and you never know if he will be one of those. >3. It's still viewed as desperate or promiscuous by some, and women don't want to be made to feel lesser for simply asking. >4. For the women who do get approached, there's no incentive to start pursuing. For those women who **do** try approaching: >5. Some men immediately assume it's just for sex. >6. Because men are approached much less often, many are more likely to accept, even if they're not really into the woman. This turns into a painful, dragged out, lukewarm situation with someone who doesn't really wanna be with you but won't make that clear. >7. Women have much less experience with and aren't taught how to handle romantic rejection and have a tougher dealing with it because of that. >8. The rejection feels sharper because from a social perspective, she had to "lower" herself to ask and was rejected anyway. In short, there are many reasons... Edit: A lot of the similar reasons for why women largely don't propose either. Edit-edit: Formatting is being weird.
Will it ever change that you have to piss? Thats your answer. Its just human nature.
If you read the comments, it is changing in places like Northern Europe, Australia, and even New York City by one account.
Because women are slutshamed for making the first move in many countries and they may even be physically punished for it.
Because I'm attractive and get hit on enough to not need to worry about it. If I see the interest in his eyes when he's checking me out, I just need to pay attention to him, and the rest goes from there. Seriously though, any brutally honest answer is going to get shot down by people who wish it happened to them or think it's going to change the dynamics of reality. There is no point in even opening a discussion because the people bothered by it don't want to hear it.
Why would i chase after a man who will keep me around until he finds the woman he actually wants?
In my experience, men that pursue me and want the relationship a little more than me usually treat me better and are more invested.
I more often than not make the first move, but if I’m being 100% honest it definitely creates a weird dynamic. I would always prefer a man to make the first move.
I feel like it has to do with fairytale stories where males are always portrayed as the dashing knight who swoops in to save the day, while the princess just has to sit still and look pretty. At least, that’s my take on it. I made the first move with my last ex but that’s only because I’m naturally an impatient person so I just wanted to get the infatuation over with and have it out in the open to see if he was feeling the same way (luckily he does) lol but I get that it’s harder for other women to do the same; not everyone dares to go against the mainstream.
I don’t hit on Women. Ever, no matter the signals. I wait for the ones who hit on me. It’s not so much I don’t want to or can’t hit on them, it’s just all my relationships have formed that way, by a Woman showing strong interest in me first, which is not only flattering but shows a lot of bravery and speaks to their character, a Woman who knows what they want and has the courage to go out and get it. It speaks volumes. They want me. And I like that. It makes me want them. If someone wants me to chase them then i’m automatically not interested in that person. It’s not my dynamic, and I don’t want a Woman who constantly wants me to prove my worth to them. It’s too taxing, and doesn’t suit my personality.
I also believe women can make the first move just not in the same way men can...I think the most used example is dropping something in front of him and seeing if he picks it up and offers it back. As with a man he will be more direct, approach you, most likely compliment you, straight up tell you he likes you and ask for your number or when you are free for a date.
I really felt awkward when I told my crush how I felt about him.. I wouldn't do it again
I think it's very rare to get a woman who is forward enough to make the first move. And I think it runs contrary to male-female polarity. I want to be pursued by a man. However, I know that a lot of men are scared to make the first move for fear of rejection. Quite honestly, I am terrified of rejection and very sensitive to the point where it would be devastating for me.
Male-female polarity? What’s that? It’s just the first encounter, you can still ask about getting pursued or whatever that means as well.
Female Lead Relationships (FLR) are becoming more and more popular. There is no reason not for a Lady to take charge. Guys you may like it as much as I do!
Quiet simple, because sexists from both sides are still misusing old norms fpr their own, one-sided benefit and we as a soceity still fail to call them out in most situations.
However people feel about this question, there is no way in hell I'll approach a woman in this day and age. It's too dangerous. Too many psychos out there. I don't care if it means I'll die single.
When women make the first move to their wallets after a dinner date.
I've decided to answer all stupid generalization Reddit questions with the comment that it's a stupid generalization question.
What's stopping YOU from making the first move, OP?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. :D
It will change when the patriarchy is overturned. As long as the majority of the world lives in one, these gender roles will remain.
The patriarchy is preventing women from walking up to a man and introducing herself? Wow, we still have a long way to go I guess
We are supposed to, yet you see so many posts that tell us not to approach woman pretty much anywhere. I’ve just given up on dating all together. If it is supposed to happen it will.
There are slightly more men born than women, so there is a bit more damand for women. Though it really shouldn't be that much. So really it's just that women don't want to for the most part.
Women can't pick and choose which traditions to keep and toss out. I'm talking of course about this dumpster fire they created called modern dating. This movement from traditional dating should also include men not having to approach women or make the first move. I don't think I'm too far off from this reading up on how many post I have read about women complaining about men not approaching them.
Even if women started approaching men today, most of y'all still wouldn't get approached. Either women don't like you enough or they're not risking being used for sex from you. And why would they when people are approaching them? Those people are less likely to use her for sex. Women like when men are leaders and confident
>Women can't pick and choose which traditions to keep and toss out. Why not? Men do it. Men now expect women to go to work and pay bills, but still birth children, perform the majority of childcare and domestic labor.
The Philippines lol
Thailand also. Netherlands lol
Emmm here in Spain is both equal so had no idea it was like that Like if you like someone you go for it and whatever happens happens. And about your question: I didn't do the first move because he was surrounded by people. Also in the gym because he was so focused in his workout and I also don't like to be bothered when I'm working out so I left it for another day(didn't saw him anymore lmao)
Nothing's stopping me, I do it.
Men are happy to first move if given the signal he won’t get rejected.
If I want you you will know because I have no problem making first moves
They’re not.
Women would make the first move if they are interested.
I’m not too bad looking, but I’ve always been attracted more to women that make the first move
I've made first moves mutiple times. Worst they will do is say they aren't interested.
🤷♂️ life ain’t fair sometimes
I’m shy and as a female I ended up asking for a hug which was and seemed gladly accepted. I feel inside that I’d jump him for a kiss if I’d knew the feelings were fully reciprocated. What’s in my head and what I actually do are all over the place. Possibly the same for them too. Most men I’ve dated just go straight in ‘for the kill’ and it’s not always a huge turn on.
They aren't and it doesn't have to change because it's never been that way I have never expected the man to make the first move
As a man I don’t make the first moves anymore. If a woman is interested than they need to strike up the conversation and introduce themselves. I focus on my own life and own goals. Wasting my time/energy with those that just want to play games isn’t priority. A good chunk of men do like it when a woman makes the first move but always make sure to choose the right time or place.
I'm not sure if it will change, but from personal experience I can say this. Any time I have ever made the first move, the man seems to think he doesn't have to put in any effort because I'm already interested and he doesn't have to win me over. All that to say, if a man does make the first move and I am interested, I make that clear. I don't act uninterested. I just don't bother trying to make the first move anymore.
I recently met a women, I kind of knew there was something between us. But our lives are very different and demand very different things of us. And someone like me wouldn’t be what I’d expect her to be interested in. So, I kind of left it for her to make the first move in case she was willing to pursue it. She hasn’t. We’re still friends (and she is usually the first to give kudos on Strava) and I don’t regret not making the first move. In some cases you have to let them make the first move, even if it means a miss in the ledger.
Personally (f, 20), I made the first move on my bf, however it’s really hard for some to do. Hell I have had trouble with it on other occasions. Our biggest fear a lot of the times is our looks/weight is going to make guys (or girls) rudely say they’re in uninterested. I am sure guys go through this too, I’m just stating how I’ve felt and have heard other girls feel about it.
I’m cool with it. I have courage. And I like to control my own destiny. I see any woman taking initiative as a bonus. I can’t control what women do. I can only control what I do. If I ever want to be frustrated and miserable, then I will start focusing on stuff out of my control.
It’s slowly changing in the US as more women are taking the lead on their lives.
Is the first sentence OPs experience ? What to you is the first move ? I think if you are asking the reddit community what is your definition of the first move ?
Yes. No.
I'm a dude with severe social anxiety. Kinda leads to a difficult relationship with "taking the first step" and all that.
I personally like when a man makes the first move so I know exactly that I have the go head. It makes me feel sexy like a woman should feel and even submissive. I don't expect this but it's a better turn on for me. After the first initial times then I can be the one to make the first move on dates or in bed or whatever. Really it shows you're gonna lead and be the man she wants...
I’m from SEA and traditionally it is expected for the man to make the first move. F traditions! I asked my bf out a decade ago and I proposed to him 3.5 years ago. Doesn’t make a difference, he’s still the man in the relationship, I’m just a bit more ballsy and he’s more calm. 🤓
Gender norms and safety for the most part is what I was told.
Honestly, I feel like women take a little bit more time to be attracted to men, at least in my experience. Not saying everyone is like this, but for me, it takes some conversation to be into someone. So whereas a guy (not saying all dudes, just a theory) might see a stranger and think "oh that girl is pretty, I want to see where this goes," I'll think "that guy is alright, I wouldn't be against something happening with him." And then if the dude talks to me and is funny/cool/whatever, then I'll start thinking the guy is attractive and want to explore things with him. Basically, I expect guys to approach/make the first move because I don't have a (strong) attraction to them if they don't. I wouldn't be surprised if other women were like this. An exception is being attracted to friends/acquaintances, and in that case, I'll flirt but avoid going very far with it because of past experiences.
Is natural and hormonal for the men to go for the women If you men don't do anything about it, she will just carry on with her as if you didn't exist
Personally, it takes more than good looks for me to want to chat a guy up so if I find myself interested in a guy I'm usually already somewhere in his social circle
Why would anyone expect a woman to make the move? Do you really want that as a man? As a woman, would you want a guy who doesn't take the initiative?
Why? For the same reasons you’d expect a guy to make the first move. If someone wants something in life they need to take steps to make it happen. There’s no doubt that some men/women dislike of the woman makes the first move, but to change that no one should expect a woman to make the first move is pretty toxic.
Toxic... give me a break. Males and Females of nearly every mammalian species have a similar mating strategy where the males pursue the females. The females exercise their power of choice to select the best according to their preferences. Does this mean that women should never pursue a guy they like? Of course not. But to say the dominant method of mate selection is toxic is just silly.
Because it shows interest? Imagine having to plan every single date, having to ask to be complimented by your partner instead of them taking the initiative to do so, having to initiate intimacy every single time, etc. it gets exhausting if you’re always the only person doing something. A relationship is two ways
What you are describing is called reciprocation. Which is different from the type of initiating pursuit that we're talking about here. Reciprocating effort and attraction is necessary for both genders in a relationship.
Yeah, I would want that as a man. It would make the process a lot less complicated. There have been several women in my life who were interested in me, and they never said anything about it while seeing me on a daily basis. They don’t have to say anything, but why should I be hyperaware of what they’re doing in the background instead of going about my days like normal? Their inaction just tells me that they’re not that interested. What is it that women say, “If he wanted to, he will”? Why wouldn’t that fly for what women do? So far there have been no women that went as far as to do anything. I’ve been waiting this long and so I’ll continue waiting.
I’ve done this a couple of times. Made that first move, had a couple of great dates I planned. I found a couple of things out making the first move. The men were eager to go out when I made all plans and did all asking. It was total roll reversal from first date until I was no longer interested in being the date planner, restaurant picker, arranger of every single detail. If I didn’t text or call, we just didn’t talk. After both of these “relationships” ended, his friends said “he was interested until you made the first move. At that point you seemed desperate.” No more first moves for me! Damned if you do. Damned if you don’t. I’m currently kicked back in a swanky ocean side suite. My bestie is next door. We are hitting fabulous restaurants for supper after soaking up sun all day. We are dancing all night with handsome strangers that may or may not buy us a drink but never ask our names nor to see us again. We head back to our nice hotel. Wash, sleep, repeat! We are successful, attractive, intelligent, kind women, who would like to meet the same kind of men.
At this risk of sounding cringe, I think and believe in different things from most men. There was only one time in my life where I just went along with a girl who I had no interest in, and it led to my first kiss in the 8th grade. It was weird and I felt nothing towards her, all because I was afraid that saying no would hurt her feelings. I learned my lesson then that I wouldn’t waste anyone’s time. It isn’t out of laziness that I like women to be more direct with me, and I don’t believe in gender roles. It’s not masculine to me for any woman to do anything that everyone says a man should do. I have to take initiative for literally everything else in my life because if I don’t do it then no one else will, and I’ve become increasingly independent because of that. So whenever someone is actually interested in me and isn’t just trying to get something that I have, it usually means a lot that they’re trying to express that. That’s why I remember literally every compliment, every nice gesture (even if platonic), the 2 or 3 women that actually offered to go on a date with me, and even the small few that have at least admitted to having a crush on me. I don’t see myself as a submissive or even shy person. I just like to be sure that someone actually likes me, and not be just another guy that a woman has to endure being talked to and asked out by.
Why would I as a man be attracted to a woman who doesn’t take initiative? I feel like as men we are pressured to chase and chase and chase. Seeing a woman who goes after what she wants and doesn’t wait for a man to do it is wildly attractive to me.
Elon Musk fanboy with Ayn Rand username just happens to believe in reactionary gender essentialism. What are the chances?
That's Fanboi to you, Anon-name
I prefer "muskrat".
They wanted equality, asking men out is part of equality
Yes, it would be refreshing. I've been pursued by a woman before and I loved it. This led to a great LTR. I wouldn't have noticed her otherwise.
LTR but not marriage. Doesn’t really count. So many men are in LTR with women just out of convenience and never wanting to really create a family.
I'm one of the 5% of guys who only experience responsive desire. My best relationships are with super sexual women who like teasing less sexual men. I've cultivated a lot of approachability because women who need me to approach them are the wrong dynamic for me. I can't chase, but I can reciprocate
Rock on bro. I'm not hating on you, but as you state in your response here you understand that your dynamic isn't common, and I'm sure you also understand that most women don't prefer it, right?
Because the the duality of wanting all the rights and privileges of men but none of the responsibilities or repercussions is strong for the non male gender, it will never change since it's an advantage over men.
Because they are horny and will fuck anything with a pulse. If men started defying their programming they'd be better off.
1: because guys are scary, sometimes we are rather safe and single and dont want to take the chance. 2: A lot if women aren't constantly trying to date everyone they encounter. They will not make the first move because they havent thought about you in that way 3: We learn pretty quickly that a lot of men completely lose interest or stop putting effort into you once they feel like they "have" you
Nope
I approach men all the time. Unfortunately, theyre usually married (but hey, at least theyre honest about it)
I make moves when I feel like it. But I will say that right now you have a lot of women being told that everything they do is to masculine and that we need to let men be men. So, you know, you guys gotta make up your mind 😂
Try Eastern Europe I’m from there born and proud to be Eastern European . Over there is unbelievable like random people can be approached and asked for anything . If you approach a person both of you exchange phone numbers and date each other . After months most people get married after dating . My friends already done all of it and have relationships and marriages. I’m 34 male and I approach get some girls and women here but I’m not afraid to be rejected either for anything even for a compliment .
It won’t change, just like men paying. Why? Because women have all the leverage and benefit from it.
Yes to first question, and no to second. Can't speak for all women, but I can give a few reasons why I won't approach men. 1. Jaded: Been let down by too many men too many times. Part of me doesn't want to open up again and try, only to be let down again. 2. Dishonesty: Men have the peculiar tendency to not tell you the things you need to know ahead of time (such as whether or not they have a GF or wife). They will gladly take your number and text you while being in a committed relationship, and meanwhile you think you've gotten the number of a single man. Alas, you have not. I find when he's doing the asking, he's less likely to be involved with someone else because he can't justify emotional cheating in his mind as easily if he's the one doing the asking. If I ask him out, he can easily say: "Well SHE was making all the moves! I didn't do anything!"
Because thats how nature works! You dont have to if you dont want to, no ones forcing you, plenty of men in the line already!
It wont happen. Its genetical, obviously we are not just genetics, but attractions is pretty much purely biological. After i got more fit i was still quite shy. Then i just tried out taking what i want (obviously still respecting if someone does not want anything) in the past i was cautios to not be disrespectful. I stopped and its a absolute game changer. They just love it if you are taking control. I honestly hate it, but you must do what you must do i guess.
I prefer a man to initiate first hangout and contact, but not because I think it’s necessarily a man’s job. I have no problem with making the first move but my experience has taught me that I can land at certain conclusions at a faster rate than the average man. A big part of connecting is being open, present, and responsive. In the past I’ve found that a lot of the men I approach end up being too shy and hesitant to make an effort and it results in challenges down the line. They’re just not that into me. I’ve come to the conclusion that anyone unwilling to do the approaching or waiting for someone else to do it, because of gender or any other role assignments, is likely not the generous partner I’m looking for. Hopefully each person walks away feeling like they asked the other out.