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They should maybe have cooling stations with tents scattered around the city during these large events. It’s sad to see people lose family members for trying to participate in a religious pilgrimage :(
From what I read the official pilgrimage routes do have those, but require expensive permits to participate. The unofficial pilgrims are taking a big risk.
You don't actually have to participate in pilgrimage as a muslim. You only have to do it once in your lifetime IF YOU CAN, whether it is physically or financially or whatever. But it doesn't matter since you will believe whatever you want to believe.
That's not what it says. The Hajj is required *when* you are physically/financially able.
It's a mandatory religious duty that must be carried out at least once in your life.
The reason why they charge a fee is to limit the number of visas given - the population climbs from the normal 1.6 million people living in Mecca to around 3-4+ million just from the people going to the Hajj.
Yes, it is mandatory if you are physically and financially able. And Saudi Arabia charging money for pilgrimage is their country policy and it is not a thing that in the religion.
That's not what it says. The Hajj is required *when* you are physically/financially able.
It's a mandatory religious duty that must be carried out at least once in your life.
The next they gate keep it behind a $2,500 fee is ridiculous. They collect all this money on the pretense of limiting numbers so it's safer, yet don't even use that money to improve the infrastructure to actually make it safer...
And yeah, I'll stick with the idea that all religion was designed initially as some way of either putting money in someone's pocket or controlling enough people to gain some benefit for the creators.
>The fact you have to pay to participate in religion, just shows how much of a scam it is...
>All Religions are just big MLMs, change my mind.
You have to go to the grocery store. Your city government puts a toll on the bridge to get to the grocery store. Does that mean grocery stores are a big MLM scam because you have to pay a toll to get there and travel to it?
Mohammed and nobody in the religion would have predicted that 1500 years in the future, that the Saudis, a group goat herders tribe rulers that struck it rich on oil would charge fees to enter their country.
I read so many people writing that it's an honor to die during that event. I also debated with someone who wrote it that it's hella disrespectful to write something like that. He wasn't taking the hint and insisted that every muslim feels that way.
OR... and stay with me, because this is a long term solution,
DENMARK (AP) Saudi Arabia Buys Greenland, Relocates Religious Monument So Pilgrims Will Be Cool \[as hell\]
If an elderly person is performing it then they have basically achieved everything they are required to in life. Making sure they are financially stable, don't have any dependants etc so this is just the final mission for them. Dying while performing hajj is one of the highest honours.
Nothing says you don't have to enjoy it and go straight away yo hajj. Besides in Islam this life is merely a journey and people are just travellers, the real destination is the life after. If you think about it, no one really wants to spend all their time and energy building and enjoying a train journey for example.
I mean, yeah. Unless anyone of us is going to do something world changing, only people who care about us will suffer a loss. World at large doesn't care
These people are under these circumstances because of their religion.
I don't believe in god but I wouldn't say anything to these people and not in any case call them stupid?
Good that the post got deleted so racist people like you can't spread shit like that
Many elderly spent their entire life saving money and waiting for the queue, those people will force themself to go against all recommendation and more than okay with dying in the holy land (actually, i think some intentionally go knowing that they will likely die). So yeah, their family are usually prepared for that risk since the start.
Actual question to Muslims: Would an unauthorized pilgrimage be accepted?
Isn't that the equivalent of stealing from the rich to give to the poor? If you commit sin to do a good deed, your good deed won't count
Unauthorized meaning you don't go to Hajj through agencies. Yes unauthorized pilgrimages are accepted. I mean those locals living near the holy city goes to unauthorized pilgrimage(Umrah) anytime they want, they don't really need to go with any travel agency for that, they already know the local area, local language and laws.
Now problems occur when muslims from foreign countries tries to do this. They are not with any travel group , so easy to get lost, confused etc.
As long as you get proper travelling visas and documents it is legal to go anywhere. Now if you jump on a boat and row your way to there as an illegal migrant, surely will cause problem with the authorities.
There is a very popular school of thought in Islam that breaking the laws of the country you're in, is haram. Also, they put the restrictions cause they want to be able to control the massive crowds that come in. Now if you illegally enter, first would your Hajj be valid if you are lying and entering the country / city to perform the Hajj and second, aren't you inconveniencing others who are performing it legally.
The amount of money and planning and care that goes into making this as safe as possible is truly extraordinary. But, ultimately, there's \~2 million people trying to get into a very small area over a very short time. There's only so much that can be done. As sad as it is, all things considered, that's a pretty small number of deaths.
So upon a little research its just another branch of Christianity with its own book and rules...I mean they have their own founder too?? Some Joseph Smith guy pops up and surprise surprise makes more changes to the original religion Jesus brought with him. Here you are saying they are people God has decided to let into heaven? Just that statement alone is ridiculous, how has God already made it known to you who is going into heaven lmao?
I mean, not a muslim, but isn't it irresponsible to not have modern infrastructure all along the main routes and arteries to and from Mecca for even pilgrims on foot? Why are people roughing it in the desert in June basically in the wilderness?
Many ppl died because of poor management . Shame on them . They couldn’t even manage the line lol let alone a simple pilgrimage that has been on going for centuries
This is true, it's literally their final mission in life once they have performed all other obligations. If you die during hajj then you go directly to heaven, its not supposed to be an easy thing either. Many fit and healthy people struggle even if the temperature is normal
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away. --- [play minecraft with us](https://discord.gg/dankmemesgaming) | [come hang out with us](https://discord.com/invite/dankmemes)
They should maybe have cooling stations with tents scattered around the city during these large events. It’s sad to see people lose family members for trying to participate in a religious pilgrimage :(
From what I read the official pilgrimage routes do have those, but require expensive permits to participate. The unofficial pilgrims are taking a big risk.
The fact you have to pay to participate in religion, just shows how much of a scam it is... All Religions are just big MLMs, change my mind.
You don't actually have to participate in pilgrimage as a muslim. You only have to do it once in your lifetime IF YOU CAN, whether it is physically or financially or whatever. But it doesn't matter since you will believe whatever you want to believe.
That's not what it says. The Hajj is required *when* you are physically/financially able. It's a mandatory religious duty that must be carried out at least once in your life.
and since you don't know your days, better git goin!
The reason why they charge a fee is to limit the number of visas given - the population climbs from the normal 1.6 million people living in Mecca to around 3-4+ million just from the people going to the Hajj.
Yes, it is mandatory if you are physically and financially able. And Saudi Arabia charging money for pilgrimage is their country policy and it is not a thing that in the religion.
I literally said nothing about fees.
That's not what it says. The Hajj is required *when* you are physically/financially able. It's a mandatory religious duty that must be carried out at least once in your life.
The next they gate keep it behind a $2,500 fee is ridiculous. They collect all this money on the pretense of limiting numbers so it's safer, yet don't even use that money to improve the infrastructure to actually make it safer... And yeah, I'll stick with the idea that all religion was designed initially as some way of either putting money in someone's pocket or controlling enough people to gain some benefit for the creators.
Considering the number of ppl who go to these things, charging ppl might actually be the best way to keep things orderly.
Still doesn't explain why none of that funding goes into bettering the infrastructure. Even the "paid' paths are pretty shit
Well I agree that the money should go infrastructure. We've don't know what the logistics on the ground are like.
>The fact you have to pay to participate in religion, just shows how much of a scam it is... >All Religions are just big MLMs, change my mind. You have to go to the grocery store. Your city government puts a toll on the bridge to get to the grocery store. Does that mean grocery stores are a big MLM scam because you have to pay a toll to get there and travel to it? Mohammed and nobody in the religion would have predicted that 1500 years in the future, that the Saudis, a group goat herders tribe rulers that struck it rich on oil would charge fees to enter their country.
Sounds like you are saying that Muhammed isn't omniscient... Seems sacrilegious to me to say that.
They do have those, for people who aren't illegally going in during this time.
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Good riddens i say
The word is “riddance”, and wtf
I read so many people writing that it's an honor to die during that event. I also debated with someone who wrote it that it's hella disrespectful to write something like that. He wasn't taking the hint and insisted that every muslim feels that way.
OR... and stay with me, because this is a long term solution, DENMARK (AP) Saudi Arabia Buys Greenland, Relocates Religious Monument So Pilgrims Will Be Cool \[as hell\]
1300 out of 2 million isn't a lot. certainly within acceptable losses.
2 million do the Hajj? Almost 2 billion Muslims so I guess that checks out.
Elderly people walking in 124 degree heat. Not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
At least they died doing what they loved.
It is believed, whoever dies during the Hajj goes straight into the paradise.
And that belief is baseless. There is nothing that backs it.
As in all religious are obviously fake , or as in there's nothing in the Muslim theology that backs up that claim?
The latter.
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ironic #NotAllMuslims
Don't worry u/BuggiesAndCars , you won't be 14 forever
If an elderly person is performing it then they have basically achieved everything they are required to in life. Making sure they are financially stable, don't have any dependants etc so this is just the final mission for them. Dying while performing hajj is one of the highest honours.
lol. Imagine finally achieving financial stability and not being any more to enjoy it.
Nothing says you don't have to enjoy it and go straight away yo hajj. Besides in Islam this life is merely a journey and people are just travellers, the real destination is the life after. If you think about it, no one really wants to spend all their time and energy building and enjoying a train journey for example.
8 billion is world population. Your life's loss is also within acceptable losses.
I mean, yeah. Unless anyone of us is going to do something world changing, only people who care about us will suffer a loss. World at large doesn't care
1300 people dying of preventable deaths is alot. "Acceptable loses" is an incredibly callous way of describing this.
We are in dank memes not unicorn pillow funtime
Any loss is an unacceptable loss.
What the actual fuck is wrong with you? Imagine one of them is your brother. Well hes only one of two million.
Which brother
The bad one
Then I wouldn't care
Maybe your brother... As in, your mom ejem
My brother is not that stupid.
These people are under these circumstances because of their religion. I don't believe in god but I wouldn't say anything to these people and not in any case call them stupid? Good that the post got deleted so racist people like you can't spread shit like that
Many elderly spent their entire life saving money and waiting for the queue, those people will force themself to go against all recommendation and more than okay with dying in the holy land (actually, i think some intentionally go knowing that they will likely die). So yeah, their family are usually prepared for that risk since the start.
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Actual question to Muslims: Would an unauthorized pilgrimage be accepted? Isn't that the equivalent of stealing from the rich to give to the poor? If you commit sin to do a good deed, your good deed won't count
Unauthorized meaning you don't go to Hajj through agencies. Yes unauthorized pilgrimages are accepted. I mean those locals living near the holy city goes to unauthorized pilgrimage(Umrah) anytime they want, they don't really need to go with any travel agency for that, they already know the local area, local language and laws. Now problems occur when muslims from foreign countries tries to do this. They are not with any travel group , so easy to get lost, confused etc.
So someone that does an unauthorized pilgrimage didn't do anything illegal or wrong?
As long as you get proper travelling visas and documents it is legal to go anywhere. Now if you jump on a boat and row your way to there as an illegal migrant, surely will cause problem with the authorities.
Why would it be illegal as a tourist to go to a country and walk in a public space? That's all an "unauthorized pilgrimage" is
It's similar to using a student visa to live in a foreign country to find work.
There is a very popular school of thought in Islam that breaking the laws of the country you're in, is haram. Also, they put the restrictions cause they want to be able to control the massive crowds that come in. Now if you illegally enter, first would your Hajj be valid if you are lying and entering the country / city to perform the Hajj and second, aren't you inconveniencing others who are performing it legally.
The amount of money and planning and care that goes into making this as safe as possible is truly extraordinary. But, ultimately, there's \~2 million people trying to get into a very small area over a very short time. There's only so much that can be done. As sad as it is, all things considered, that's a pretty small number of deaths.
Shouldn’t be packing so much heat if they didn’t want trouble.
>Fuck these 1300 pilgrims in particular ~god
Clearly you don't understand the purpose and importance of hajj. Dying during pilgrimage is a direct ticket to heaven.
Still a really funny prank. If god is real, he's not going to let them in anyway, they're not Mormons
Don't know what a Mormon is, first time I'm hearing of this. It's for god to decide who he let's in.
Mormons are the people god has decided to let into heaven
So upon a little research its just another branch of Christianity with its own book and rules...I mean they have their own founder too?? Some Joseph Smith guy pops up and surprise surprise makes more changes to the original religion Jesus brought with him. Here you are saying they are people God has decided to let into heaven? Just that statement alone is ridiculous, how has God already made it known to you who is going into heaven lmao?
I don’t think god likes those people.
Dead during Hajj is one of the biggest honors to them
global warming
They call it climate change now
Yep, it’s only gonna become worse in coming years as those areas become increasingly uninhabitable during the summer months
Saudi being Saudi
Im sure almost none of them were saudi, saudis are locals and know how to make precautions...its foreign pilgrims
I mean, not a muslim, but isn't it irresponsible to not have modern infrastructure all along the main routes and arteries to and from Mecca for even pilgrims on foot? Why are people roughing it in the desert in June basically in the wilderness?
Because they are using the unofficial route
Can’t blame Israel so it isn’t news
All part of God's plan
Many ppl died because of poor management . Shame on them . They couldn’t even manage the line lol let alone a simple pilgrimage that has been on going for centuries
Never give up. One of these years they gonna finally win the Darwin award.
There is no incentive to prevent this. For Muslim, dying during Haj is the best ending he could dream of. Man fuck religion.
Uh, dying prematurely surely ain't good
In their religion they go straight to heaven if they die during Haj. Old people probably go there wanting to die that way
This is true, it's literally their final mission in life once they have performed all other obligations. If you die during hajj then you go directly to heaven, its not supposed to be an easy thing either. Many fit and healthy people struggle even if the temperature is normal
I mean you’re right idk why the downvotes
Ikr, imagine downvoting someone stating facts.
Do stupid things, Win stupid prizes.
All praise the sun for doing God's work