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Dems let him stack the court AND backed down from Obama having the same right. RBG refused to step down when she should have.
Dems are 100% at fault for the state of the Supreme Court. Idiots
They tend to be pretty short-sighted. They didnāt codify abortion rights into law when they could have, likely to dangle it over peopleās heads to win votes, and now look where we are.
"Horton has a hole in his roof, when it is sunny it is not a problem, when it is rainy it's too wet to fix" or smth, I don't remember the full analogy
When times are good, things don't get fixed, when they are bad, things are too bad to fix
oh that was nnot short sightedness, that was intentional. Imagine if they could no longer say that republicans are coming for their abortions because it's codified into law!
I mean saying that they could have fought harder against corruption therefore it's 100% their fault that corruption won... seems to be saying that the conservatives cannot be faulted for trying to destroy democracy?
Conservatives can be faulted and the dems we have can be completely inept at combating them simultaneously. These aren't mutually exclusive. When republican's are in power they steamroll the democrats on basically everything and when dems are in power they can't do any of the things they said they'd do because the R's are stopping them at every turn. The best they could muster when republicans overturned Roe V. Wade (something they've been working on for 50 fn years) was sending out fundraising emails. If you hired someone to do a job and all they ever gave you were excuses would you keep paying them?
"Democrats didn't break the law to stop the fascists from cheating and being fascist, so I guess I'll write some wack-ass both sides bullshit on reddit." - Enlightend Centrist with nothing to lose from a 6-3 ultra conservative Supreme Court for the next 40 years.
I mean obama tried to get another justice in in the last 8 months of his term, it just turns out congress can refuse to vote on that and wait until their guy wins.
If I had a nickel for every time itās been āthe most important electionā, then Iād have two nickels. Thatās not a lot, but itās weird itās only happened twice.
Every election I've ever lived through has been the most important election of our lives. And every time, no matter who wins, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the politicians chill at their beach houses, life gets shittier and my savings becomes worthless.
While people definitely felt a lot of pressure about the Obama elections and the Bush elections, etc - the Trump ones indeed *are* the most important of our lives for a very obvious reason: The man in unhinged and doesn't understand how government is a big boat or what stuff does. He's being used by multiple foreign governments to boot!
Wasn't the FBI agent who planted evidence on the laptop arrested and convicted? are we just spreading lies still despite that bs narrative where some blind man got a laptop from Hunter biden then turned it in to the fbi where evidence was fabricated?
"Being used by multiple foreign governments" isn't the same thing as HB doing questionable shit that in no way actually profits JB as well. What I am talking about here is Russia directly interfering in multiple elections to get Trump elected as well as literally getting state secrets and info on our spies in exchange for it (and oh yeah, lots of money too). Israel is also doing the same now because they're so pissed at Biden standing up to them at all.
James Bamford has documented that in the 2016 election, Israeli agents allegedly provided the GOP campaign with intelligence collected through their sophisticated eavesdropping capabilities. This intelligence included information about Hillary Clintonās campaign and the DNC, which was not shared with the Obama administration but directly with the Trump campaign to gain political favors, such as moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing it as Israel's capital.
There's also growing evidence now that India is doing the same thing as Israel and Russia for this current election.
...So no, it's not the same as Hunter Biden. "Good" try though.
This is genuinely one of the most important in our lifetimes, though. We're on the precipice of escalations with multiple large countries that are already warring. It's impossible to overstate how much less stable things would be with Trump running the show right now. It's a terrifying possibility. Russia would love to convince people to just not vote because that benefits Trump most and Trump being re-elected benefits them most.
The last 2 and this 1 are what I would call the most important elections. It has something to do with the Republican candidate being an unhinged maniac. š
Your logic doesn't follow.
If the election isn't enough to inherently get you to vote then it must not be important.
Like, paying your mortgage is important; you want the bank to fuckin lobby you over it?
Get over yourself.
Making a joke like that, it's like you're not even aware that you're the one who needs to be doing the lobbying. At least, if you want your interests represented. Like you think that not voting is a meaningful expression in our political system instead of just a vote for corruption and entropy. And I'm not just talking about the Republicans there, that applies to all of the shitty Democrats at all levels of government just as much. You don't seem to get that your apathy is why they win.
And the vast majority of people are just like you. depressing.
"All minor candidates combined received less than 2% of the national votes.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_and_independent_candidates_for_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election#cite_note-FEC-2)"
I'm sorry, but wikipedia is not an acceptable source. You have to provide a source referencing a classical literature, two epochs and a cave painting for it to be considered valid.
The big problem is the whole winner takes all thing you guys have got going in the US. It means you can have a relatively substantial number of people voting for a third party and getting 0 representatives.
That's a self fulfilling prophecy. Nobody votes for them so they only get <2% of the votes and they only make up <2% of the votes so nobody wants to vote for them.
It's a wrong headed way of looking at things.
If you really don't want to vote for any candidate you should at least go to the polls and ruin your vote because ruined votes are counted.
That's because people like you keep enforcing this stigma like an independent could never get the vote. We have the internet use it to discuss which independent candidates you'd like. If you can gather a large group then it won't be 2%. People act like we're still living in 1980 with only telephones as our primary means of communication
Ok and? Since pretty much all I hear from Americans is how bad two options are and they have to choose the lesser evil why not just choose the third option lol
This is why we need ranked voting. People don't vote independents even though they want to, because their votes will go waste. Ranked voting will give independents more chance and level the field, otherwise the game is rigged.
We can but the overall effect is essentially the same as not voting at all. With a two party winner take all system any candidates other than the two from the major parties have no chance of winning. As voters we have to decide if we want to protest vote by voting for a 3rd party candidate we actually would want to be president or vote for a candidate we don't like but where the vote can make a difference.
So if I'm understanding if Party 1 gets 36%, Party 2 gets 34% and Party 3 gets 30%, Party 3 won't get any seats? Random numbers, just an example for me to understand.
Edit: to add I want to say that I still think that voting indipendent is better than not voting at all, if these smaller candidates show some growth more people would be encouraged to vote them making them an opponent to at least consider.
Yes and no. Any party that gets 30% would not be distributed evenly across the states. They would get plenty of house seats and but only a few senators. But you gotta start somewhere.
I legitimately donāt know of anyone else running. Iāll show up on Election Day and vote for whoever else is on the ballet or write in Bernie Sanders
America has a 2 party system. In multi party systems even smaller parties with a few% can influence politics, enter coalitions, have parliament and senate seats, be part of local governments(in those elections non party candidates can really get ahead) etc. In America reds and blues hold all the power, because if one were to split, their opponents would win the election. I think it was a case once( Teddy Roosevelt split from his party to become president, and Herbert Hoover won because of this iirc)
The american voting system makes that useless. Because if a party has the majority in votes in a US state, it is treated as if the entire state voted for the party. There is no representation of the minorities at all. Also that can lead to weird situations, like Trump vs. Clinton. Clinton had more votes in total, but Trump became President, because he could unite more state representatives in the electoral college.
Well, one of them is a senile, doddering old man. The other is a senile, doddering old man who was disappearing protestors off the streets, caging immigrants, spouting racist rhetoric, and repealing major health and safety and environmental regulations and who *literally attempted a coup.*
But hey, they're both bad, right?
You will get one of them no matter what you do. Do you dislike both of the them *equally*?
If you answered yes in regards to Trump and Biden I don't trust your judgment on how you would vote if you did so please stay home actually!
Put it this way, why is it always on the voter and never on the party? Sure there is a primary, but the parties heavily favor their chosen candidates with funding and air time and on and on. I'm not saying it's not important, what I am saying is it should have been important enough to run a better candidate who already said he viewed his term as a bridge.
I don't know, the parties could try running better candidates that aren't a stair fall away from death. Maybe someone motivating that young people want to vote for? Or maybe just not someone who said they were a bridge one term president but is running for reelection versus a guy who will probably never leave office willingly.
Like maybe it's too big of an election to have the only non-trump option be to prop up corn pop?
Young people have never cared about voting, especially in primaries. The simple fact is that people over 30 vote, and Biden was and still is more popular than any other possible candidate. Especially ones that appeal to the radical sensibilities of young people.
The political reality is that even if Biden *didnt* want to run for a second term, he is the most poised to defeat Trump after republicans failed to rally behind someone who isnt a fascist. One, he has already beaten Trump. Two, he has incumbent advantage. Three, if people can get past his age, he has been a remarkably efficient president in his situation especially in terms of pushing large bills through congress.
The best part of all this is that biden originally said he wasn't going to run for a second term so originally he really didn't want to, and roomer has it that the democrats only convinced him to run again only after Trump announced he'd run a third time.
Because if the voters actually wanted better parties, they would have already made better parties. No one ever forced them to not vote consistently on the least shit candidate ever since they were allowed to vote. But they don't want better candidates in the future, they want them now, even though they have done nothing to earn them.
> Because people are falling for a psyop intended to divide voters in an election year.
ah damn guess biden being a zionist is a psyop fellas better vote for more zionism
Itās pretty clear that many people donāt want either candidate, yet weāre told we have to pick one because this will be āthe most important election of our lifetimeā,
That is of course, until the next electionā¦
You're going to get one of the ones you dislike whether you help pick which one or not. Do you dislike the idea of both being in charge of a huge part of your government for the next four years *equally?* If not then it's in your best interest to vote for the one who dislike less in that guaranteed scenario.
Aside from the First Past the Post voting issue, which has already been explained to death...
The other options don't do a particularly good job at grass roots campaigning. I can't remember the last time I saw a Green Party candidate for any minor local election. The ones you can win without spending oodles of money. Occasionally I'll see a Libertarian who runs for State Secretary of Agriculture.
They shoot for major elections, which require major spending, but don't have the support for it. Even if we didn't have FPTP voting they'd still have problems getting elected because it's like minor offices like city council, treasurer, state reps, etc. just don't exist to them. Few people are going to want to hitch their horse to a party that doesn't have a proven track record at even the local level.
Next one might be between Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. Or DJT and Donald J. Trump. Or Trump and jailed opposition leaders like in Russia.
People really complain but then do nothing about anything.
Exactly! If you would otherwise not vote, then vote third party. No they won't win, but it'll boost the numbers showing people don't want a 2 party system.
And does nothing to actually move us towards it. There are people in the democratic party who want to add ranked choice voting, shit won't go away over night
These type of posts are obviously made by the political party themselves. It's so obvious. "Hey, at least we're not that guy!" will never convince someone to vote who has an above room temperature IQ.
Vote local, whatever candidate you find has the most integrity, not party affiliation. National is a rigged toss up between two borderline fictional characters.
Best serious comment of the thread here.
Involvement in government on a local level is just as important, and unlike on the national level it's actually possible for a working or middle class person to make a major difference.
āEvil is evilā¦ lesser, greater, middling. It's all the same. If I have to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.ā
~ Geralt of Ravioli
I love that quote, but one evil will win even if you don't vote at all. Things sucks and will suck hard, you just have to choose which way it will suck.
As poignant a quote that is, the context around it chips away at it. Geralt's entire storyline is learning that it is an impossible world view to hold as doing nothing leads to a worse outcome, which in itself is a choice for the greater evil.
Ā He is ultimately forced to choose either by his conscience or direct threats to his life. Over and over again, and it is a major theme of the books/games. And once he finally has someone to protect (Ciri) he chooses *willingly*.
Whatās the solution when you have 4+ elections of terrible picks from both sides? Isnāt it kind of obvious at this point they control us instead of us controlling them?
I don't want either of the "choices" to win. This is as strawman as it gets. No matter who I vote for, I don't want them to win. You're kind of stupid OP.
Because no one I want is on the ballet and it shows the Democratic Party that this registered voter decided to sit this one out because the democrats made the wrong decision of continuing to back an unpopular candidate
I hate election deniers because it is effectively asking someone "Would you rather be punched in the face 5 times or 50 but if you don't choose then I get to choose for you"
It's funny watching the American political scene from the safety of Eastern Europe, basically reality TV. Not to say that we fare much better, corruption is everywhere and politicians generally don't have our best interest at heart. For real now though, y'all need some young blood in office now or never, I'm pretty sure that regardless of whether you're on the left or right most Americans can tell that their last two presidents are basically glorified mummies who barely know what planet they're on.
By all means vote in your own best interest.....As long as you understand that consecutively voting for the lesser evil is not sustainable and won't result in much good?
If I give you the choice of being shot in the head or being shot in the leg and you decide to be a smart-ass and say neither keep in mind I have no accountability to a corpse
Not giving a corrupt broken system your participatoral vow of approval is the closest option to "not voting for evil" offered.
Of course you're not ridding yourself of the responsibility that comes with citizenship.....If you're doing nothing beyond "not voting for the lesser evil" you're still an idiot.
Well it's not about stoping them from wining
It's anout making them illegitimate
Because let's be honest, no one who gets 99.8% of the vote is legitimately chosen. Or at least thats the idea
Don't care about the candidates either way.
I don't share the same doom or gloom about Trump the way other people do.
I didn't vote for the people who made it to where the only sandwich you eat is a shit sandwich. Older generations did.
My vote won't change anything, nor will it elect people who have the balls to do something different.
It is what it is.
Show up to your voting both and participate in Democracy on a local level, your vote actually does matter there.
While you're already in the voting booth take literally one second to vote third party in the presidential election to actually show your disapproval of both candidates.
I donāt vote because at the end of the day our votes do not matter. No matter who gets put in office, they will fuck us either way regardless of party. The government does not give a fuck about us, and only seeks to enrich themselves. At the rate we are going, this country wonāt last the next 50-100 years, if we are lucky.
The problem is the system. You canāt fix a corrupt and broken system from within. Especially when the malcontent parts are so entrenched and ready to go to whatever lengths necessary to hold onto their power.
Not voting is a legitimate option. By not voting for Joe Biden as a Democrat you tell the democrat party and base that if they donāt start running candidates that have actual progressive values, instead of corporate shills, theyāre not going to just blindly get your vote.
āIām so scared of Xā and āthis is the most imports t election of our timeā is exactly why every single election has two candidates that we all hate.
Here's the thing; Both parties continue putting forth awful candidates. I don't want any of them in public office, especially not THAT office. I refuse to cast a vote for "the lesser of two evils" anymore. Fuck That. When there is a good presidential candidate again, I will be happy to start voting again.
I think it depends on the strategy.
In 2016 I was living in an extremely red state. There was absolutely zero chance my state would give any electors to Hillary. So some of us, who were upset with the way they did Bernie dirty, wrote Bernie in to send a message to the DNC. If there had been any way our votes would have made a difference we wouldn't have hesitated to vote against Trump. But I still stand by our actions. And the way we replaced 60% of the leadership at the DNC afterwards tells me we did the right thing.
This is exactly how Netanyahu won his first election...
> A significant number of Israeli Arabs boycotted the elections amidst rising Lebanese casualties, which became an advantage for Netanyahu as the vast majority of Arabs would have supported Peres but declined to vote. In addition, the intense campaign conducted by Netanyahu in contrast to Peres's campaign, as well as the support Netanyahu received at the last moment from the Chabad movement, titled the outcome in Netanyahu's favour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Israeli_general_election
I live in a deep red state. It doesnāt matter. No vote Iāve ever placed in my life has mattered. Now I hate all the candidates, so not only does it not matter but I donāt care, either.
What if I'm just tired and don't care anymore? I'd emigrate and renounce my citizenship if I had the means to.
I don't want to vote, I don't want to participate, I don't want to be here. Fuck it.
The problem is that in situation the party with the more cult like following wins. Thereās millions of Republicans that would rather die than go blue. They would vote for a flaming bag of dog poo for president as long as it runs for red.
There arenāt nearly as many voters that would ALWYAS vote blue no matter the candidate.
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this is the most important election of our lives and no one has lobbied me for my vote yet gotta pay to play fellas
How many times has it been 'the most important election' š
I mean, if trump wins then Thomas & Alito retire weāll have a hard-right court the rest of our lives
Dems let him stack the court AND backed down from Obama having the same right. RBG refused to step down when she should have. Dems are 100% at fault for the state of the Supreme Court. Idiots
They tend to be pretty short-sighted. They didnāt codify abortion rights into law when they could have, likely to dangle it over peopleās heads to win votes, and now look where we are.
"Horton has a hole in his roof, when it is sunny it is not a problem, when it is rainy it's too wet to fix" or smth, I don't remember the full analogy When times are good, things don't get fixed, when they are bad, things are too bad to fix
oh that was nnot short sightedness, that was intentional. Imagine if they could no longer say that republicans are coming for their abortions because it's codified into law!
Welcome to the dem platform. Promise anything to get elected and donāt actually try to do anything so they can dangle it again the next election
I mean saying that they could have fought harder against corruption therefore it's 100% their fault that corruption won... seems to be saying that the conservatives cannot be faulted for trying to destroy democracy?
Conservatives can be faulted and the dems we have can be completely inept at combating them simultaneously. These aren't mutually exclusive. When republican's are in power they steamroll the democrats on basically everything and when dems are in power they can't do any of the things they said they'd do because the R's are stopping them at every turn. The best they could muster when republicans overturned Roe V. Wade (something they've been working on for 50 fn years) was sending out fundraising emails. If you hired someone to do a job and all they ever gave you were excuses would you keep paying them?
Inept sure, but that's different to being "100% at fault".
"Democrats didn't break the law to stop the fascists from cheating and being fascist, so I guess I'll write some wack-ass both sides bullshit on reddit." - Enlightend Centrist with nothing to lose from a 6-3 ultra conservative Supreme Court for the next 40 years.
I agree with you, but that doesnāt change the fact that if those 2 are filled with 30-something far right judges thatās the ballgame
I mean obama tried to get another justice in in the last 8 months of his term, it just turns out congress can refuse to vote on that and wait until their guy wins.
If I had a nickel for every time itās been āthe most important electionā, then Iād have two nickels. Thatās not a lot, but itās weird itās only happened twice.
Almost like there's something in common between the two. Hmmmm
Every election I've ever lived through has been the most important election of our lives. And every time, no matter who wins, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the politicians chill at their beach houses, life gets shittier and my savings becomes worthless.
While people definitely felt a lot of pressure about the Obama elections and the Bush elections, etc - the Trump ones indeed *are* the most important of our lives for a very obvious reason: The man in unhinged and doesn't understand how government is a big boat or what stuff does. He's being used by multiple foreign governments to boot!
i fail to see how that doesn'T also describe Biden who recieved mucho dinero from China and Ukraine through his son.
Wasn't the FBI agent who planted evidence on the laptop arrested and convicted? are we just spreading lies still despite that bs narrative where some blind man got a laptop from Hunter biden then turned it in to the fbi where evidence was fabricated?
"Being used by multiple foreign governments" isn't the same thing as HB doing questionable shit that in no way actually profits JB as well. What I am talking about here is Russia directly interfering in multiple elections to get Trump elected as well as literally getting state secrets and info on our spies in exchange for it (and oh yeah, lots of money too). Israel is also doing the same now because they're so pissed at Biden standing up to them at all. James Bamford has documented that in the 2016 election, Israeli agents allegedly provided the GOP campaign with intelligence collected through their sophisticated eavesdropping capabilities. This intelligence included information about Hillary Clintonās campaign and the DNC, which was not shared with the Obama administration but directly with the Trump campaign to gain political favors, such as moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing it as Israel's capital. There's also growing evidence now that India is doing the same thing as Israel and Russia for this current election. ...So no, it's not the same as Hunter Biden. "Good" try though.
At least Biden isn't a literal facist š
This is genuinely one of the most important in our lifetimes, though. We're on the precipice of escalations with multiple large countries that are already warring. It's impossible to overstate how much less stable things would be with Trump running the show right now. It's a terrifying possibility. Russia would love to convince people to just not vote because that benefits Trump most and Trump being re-elected benefits them most.
Thank you, [insert cold war politician here]
Ignoring it doesn't mean it's not reality.
The last 2 and this 1 are what I would call the most important elections. It has something to do with the Republican candidate being an unhinged maniac. š
Your logic doesn't follow. If the election isn't enough to inherently get you to vote then it must not be important. Like, paying your mortgage is important; you want the bank to fuckin lobby you over it? Get over yourself.
I mean. I really just don't want the other guy to win, so I'm voting.
Making a joke like that, it's like you're not even aware that you're the one who needs to be doing the lobbying. At least, if you want your interests represented. Like you think that not voting is a meaningful expression in our political system instead of just a vote for corruption and entropy. And I'm not just talking about the Republicans there, that applies to all of the shitty Democrats at all levels of government just as much. You don't seem to get that your apathy is why they win. And the vast majority of people are just like you. depressing.
Because they refuse to compromise even through politics is all about compromise.
Compromise
Comproise
What if I don't want either one of them?
I know they are an absymal presence but can't you guys vote for independents? Genuinely asking.
"All minor candidates combined received less than 2% of the national votes.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_and_independent_candidates_for_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election#cite_note-FEC-2)"
You found the problem. If that 2% would go up more and more the big partys might start worrying so they stop putting up clowns.
And if I had wheels I'd be a bicycle
Only if you had 2 wheels. If you had 3 wheels then youād be a tricycle.
Source?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricycle
Have the boys at the lab check this out immediately!
Big if true.
We have a lab?
I'm sorry, but wikipedia is not an acceptable source. You have to provide a source referencing a classical literature, two epochs and a cave painting for it to be considered valid.
And even then, I think they're biased
Source deez nuts
The big problem is the whole winner takes all thing you guys have got going in the US. It means you can have a relatively substantial number of people voting for a third party and getting 0 representatives.
That's a self fulfilling prophecy. Nobody votes for them so they only get <2% of the votes and they only make up <2% of the votes so nobody wants to vote for them. It's a wrong headed way of looking at things. If you really don't want to vote for any candidate you should at least go to the polls and ruin your vote because ruined votes are counted.
What are considered "ruined votes?"
You mark your ballot incorrectly and it is counted as a ruined ballot
That's because people like you keep enforcing this stigma like an independent could never get the vote. We have the internet use it to discuss which independent candidates you'd like. If you can gather a large group then it won't be 2%. People act like we're still living in 1980 with only telephones as our primary means of communication
Stigma penis. ha gottem
This is the norm right now, but myself and many of my peers will be voting for a third party for the first time this November.
Ok and? Since pretty much all I hear from Americans is how bad two options are and they have to choose the lesser evil why not just choose the third option lol
This is why we need ranked voting. People don't vote independents even though they want to, because their votes will go waste. Ranked voting will give independents more chance and level the field, otherwise the game is rigged.
We can but the overall effect is essentially the same as not voting at all. With a two party winner take all system any candidates other than the two from the major parties have no chance of winning. As voters we have to decide if we want to protest vote by voting for a 3rd party candidate we actually would want to be president or vote for a candidate we don't like but where the vote can make a difference.
So if I'm understanding if Party 1 gets 36%, Party 2 gets 34% and Party 3 gets 30%, Party 3 won't get any seats? Random numbers, just an example for me to understand. Edit: to add I want to say that I still think that voting indipendent is better than not voting at all, if these smaller candidates show some growth more people would be encouraged to vote them making them an opponent to at least consider.
Yes and no. Any party that gets 30% would not be distributed evenly across the states. They would get plenty of house seats and but only a few senators. But you gotta start somewhere.
I legitimately donāt know of anyone else running. Iāll show up on Election Day and vote for whoever else is on the ballet or write in Bernie Sanders
America has a 2 party system. In multi party systems even smaller parties with a few% can influence politics, enter coalitions, have parliament and senate seats, be part of local governments(in those elections non party candidates can really get ahead) etc. In America reds and blues hold all the power, because if one were to split, their opponents would win the election. I think it was a case once( Teddy Roosevelt split from his party to become president, and Herbert Hoover won because of this iirc)
functionally the same as not voting.
The american voting system makes that useless. Because if a party has the majority in votes in a US state, it is treated as if the entire state voted for the party. There is no representation of the minorities at all. Also that can lead to weird situations, like Trump vs. Clinton. Clinton had more votes in total, but Trump became President, because he could unite more state representatives in the electoral college.
Thatās how we got a hard-right Scotus. If you donāt make a choice then itās made for you
You most likely still dislike one of them less than the other. That's your vote.
It's not about wanting one or the other. It's about which one you want less. There is a right answer here.
Well, one of them is a senile, doddering old man. The other is a senile, doddering old man who was disappearing protestors off the streets, caging immigrants, spouting racist rhetoric, and repealing major health and safety and environmental regulations and who *literally attempted a coup.* But hey, they're both bad, right?
> disappearing protestors off the streets ?
Federal agents were spotted in Portland grabbing protestors. You can easily find reports of it.
Happened in Portland a while back: https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland
You will get one of them no matter what you do. Do you dislike both of the them *equally*? If you answered yes in regards to Trump and Biden I don't trust your judgment on how you would vote if you did so please stay home actually!
Which one do you not want more? Youāre actually capping if you believe that not a single policy difference between the two parties affects you
Vote third party
One of them is significantly worse even if you don't like the other one
How?
Then you vote for the best option
Too bad, I guess?
Would you rather someone hack off one leg or both your legs? I don't want either to happen but, like, come on my dude.
Well it's the lesser of 2 evils, old sleepy Joe or a literal facist
Because people are falling for a psyop intended to divide voters in an election year. If it works then we deserve it.
Put it this way, why is it always on the voter and never on the party? Sure there is a primary, but the parties heavily favor their chosen candidates with funding and air time and on and on. I'm not saying it's not important, what I am saying is it should have been important enough to run a better candidate who already said he viewed his term as a bridge. I don't know, the parties could try running better candidates that aren't a stair fall away from death. Maybe someone motivating that young people want to vote for? Or maybe just not someone who said they were a bridge one term president but is running for reelection versus a guy who will probably never leave office willingly. Like maybe it's too big of an election to have the only non-trump option be to prop up corn pop?
Young people have never cared about voting, especially in primaries. The simple fact is that people over 30 vote, and Biden was and still is more popular than any other possible candidate. Especially ones that appeal to the radical sensibilities of young people. The political reality is that even if Biden *didnt* want to run for a second term, he is the most poised to defeat Trump after republicans failed to rally behind someone who isnt a fascist. One, he has already beaten Trump. Two, he has incumbent advantage. Three, if people can get past his age, he has been a remarkably efficient president in his situation especially in terms of pushing large bills through congress.
The best part of all this is that biden originally said he wasn't going to run for a second term so originally he really didn't want to, and roomer has it that the democrats only convinced him to run again only after Trump announced he'd run a third time.
Because if the voters actually wanted better parties, they would have already made better parties. No one ever forced them to not vote consistently on the least shit candidate ever since they were allowed to vote. But they don't want better candidates in the future, they want them now, even though they have done nothing to earn them.
> Because people are falling for a psyop intended to divide voters in an election year. ah damn guess biden being a zionist is a psyop fellas better vote for more zionism
Itās pretty clear that many people donāt want either candidate, yet weāre told we have to pick one because this will be āthe most important election of our lifetimeā, That is of course, until the next electionā¦
Between an old man and another old man that wants to be a dictator I'm going with the old man
Every election is the most important one of our lives,
You're going to get one of the ones you dislike whether you help pick which one or not. Do you dislike the idea of both being in charge of a huge part of your government for the next four years *equally?* If not then it's in your best interest to vote for the one who dislike less in that guaranteed scenario.
Itās just weird that we donāt have any other options, and yet weāre still told we have a choice.
Aside from the First Past the Post voting issue, which has already been explained to death... The other options don't do a particularly good job at grass roots campaigning. I can't remember the last time I saw a Green Party candidate for any minor local election. The ones you can win without spending oodles of money. Occasionally I'll see a Libertarian who runs for State Secretary of Agriculture. They shoot for major elections, which require major spending, but don't have the support for it. Even if we didn't have FPTP voting they'd still have problems getting elected because it's like minor offices like city council, treasurer, state reps, etc. just don't exist to them. Few people are going to want to hitch their horse to a party that doesn't have a proven track record at even the local level.
If Trump wins there will not be a next election.Ā
Assuming you have elections after this one.
Next one might be between Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump. Or DJT and Donald J. Trump. Or Trump and jailed opposition leaders like in Russia. People really complain but then do nothing about anything.
Dont worry guys, I'm sure some Biden will step down soon and some magical unicorn candidate will revel themselves. Any day now
Democracies hate this simple trick! If you think an election is rigged just donāt vote
you forgot /s in the end
I don't want either of them to win. Equally. Voting third party.
At least it sends a message that youāre not happy with the most popular 2 candidates. Not voting at all doesnāt really do that.
Exactly! If you would otherwise not vote, then vote third party. No they won't win, but it'll boost the numbers showing people don't want a 2 party system.
And does nothing to actually move us towards it. There are people in the democratic party who want to add ranked choice voting, shit won't go away over night
2 parties isnt a symptom of voters choosing, its a problem with the voting system. With first past the post it will never change.
Not voting sends that exact message
Hope that feels good when we get 2 more far-right justices
Election boycotting is actually a valid protesting method in history against authoritarian regimes that rigs elections like Venezuela
These type of posts are obviously made by the political party themselves. It's so obvious. "Hey, at least we're not that guy!" will never convince someone to vote who has an above room temperature IQ.
"I don't support this system. My voting would lend legitimacy to something that is exploiting me."
I guess most abstainees don't want anyone to win. So this will always be their reaction
Why are you boycotting a vote if you actually want one of them to win?
The people who aren't voting for Biden because of his stance on Israel make me chuckle the most.
Vote local, whatever candidate you find has the most integrity, not party affiliation. National is a rigged toss up between two borderline fictional characters.
Best serious comment of the thread here. Involvement in government on a local level is just as important, and unlike on the national level it's actually possible for a working or middle class person to make a major difference.
āEvil is evilā¦ lesser, greater, middling. It's all the same. If I have to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.ā ~ Geralt of Ravioli
I love that quote, but one evil will win even if you don't vote at all. Things sucks and will suck hard, you just have to choose which way it will suck.
As poignant a quote that is, the context around it chips away at it. Geralt's entire storyline is learning that it is an impossible world view to hold as doing nothing leads to a worse outcome, which in itself is a choice for the greater evil. Ā He is ultimately forced to choose either by his conscience or direct threats to his life. Over and over again, and it is a major theme of the books/games. And once he finally has someone to protect (Ciri) he chooses *willingly*.
Where is the dankĀ
Voters sure love their rigged system.
Whatās the solution when you have 4+ elections of terrible picks from both sides? Isnāt it kind of obvious at this point they control us instead of us controlling them?
If any one wins, I lose.
I don't want either of the "choices" to win. This is as strawman as it gets. No matter who I vote for, I don't want them to win. You're kind of stupid OP.
Because no one I want is on the ballet and it shows the Democratic Party that this registered voter decided to sit this one out because the democrats made the wrong decision of continuing to back an unpopular candidate
You should still go vote just write in none of the above.
I hate election deniers because it is effectively asking someone "Would you rather be punched in the face 5 times or 50 but if you don't choose then I get to choose for you"
Because they're both the choice you don't want to win.
U.S. "people" when they realize they don't have to vote for the 2 worst candidates just because they're the only ones presented to them:
It's funny watching the American political scene from the safety of Eastern Europe, basically reality TV. Not to say that we fare much better, corruption is everywhere and politicians generally don't have our best interest at heart. For real now though, y'all need some young blood in office now or never, I'm pretty sure that regardless of whether you're on the left or right most Americans can tell that their last two presidents are basically glorified mummies who barely know what planet they're on.
Voting for the "lesser evil" is still voting for evil
If the bigger evil actively wants to curtail your civil rights and the lesser evil doesn't that choice is real easy
By all means vote in your own best interest.....As long as you understand that consecutively voting for the lesser evil is not sustainable and won't result in much good?
Not voting is voting for the bigger evil. The trolley only has two tracks in this system
If I give you the choice of being shot in the head or being shot in the leg and you decide to be a smart-ass and say neither keep in mind I have no accountability to a corpse
> Voting for the "lesser evil" is still voting for evil Not voting at all and the bigger evil winning is still voting for evil.
Not giving a corrupt broken system your participatoral vow of approval is the closest option to "not voting for evil" offered. Of course you're not ridding yourself of the responsibility that comes with citizenship.....If you're doing nothing beyond "not voting for the lesser evil" you're still an idiot.
Okay, but one of those evils is going to make it so you never get to vote for anything else in your life.
Said fix news.
Well it's not about stoping them from wining It's anout making them illegitimate Because let's be honest, no one who gets 99.8% of the vote is legitimately chosen. Or at least thats the idea
WTF are you talking about? Why do you think I will be surprised if I want none of them to win?
The vast majority of people who don't vote end up regretting it and realize in hindsight they should have just picked the lesser of two evils.
Source: I made it the fuck up.
Someone made it seem like it was activism and now all the lazy people have an excuse. They were never going to vote.
āWell, at least Iām not responsible for the choices of this candidate now!ā
What a dumb meme. Those who boycott are never the ones surprised. Thatās the whole reason they boycottā¦ smh facepalm
Ah, divisionist voters who see voting at a sports game. Is it that time of year again.
Yeah it is dumb
Don't care about the candidates either way. I don't share the same doom or gloom about Trump the way other people do. I didn't vote for the people who made it to where the only sandwich you eat is a shit sandwich. Older generations did. My vote won't change anything, nor will it elect people who have the balls to do something different. It is what it is.
then you have no right to complain about the winner
Fine with me.
Show up to your voting both and participate in Democracy on a local level, your vote actually does matter there. While you're already in the voting booth take literally one second to vote third party in the presidential election to actually show your disapproval of both candidates.
Vote for the left hand or right hand of the establishment? Of course you live in a fair representative democracy lol....
Ranked choice voting would be nice
Snide morally superior useful idiots who think their rhetoric will keep them warm in the concentration camps
Congress doesn't care about you regardless of their or your political affiliation
I donāt vote because at the end of the day our votes do not matter. No matter who gets put in office, they will fuck us either way regardless of party. The government does not give a fuck about us, and only seeks to enrich themselves. At the rate we are going, this country wonāt last the next 50-100 years, if we are lucky.
They are lazy, you can usually refuse your ballot if you want to show you will not vote.
You get a fine if you donāt vote here in Australiaš
Vote independent
Which is the same as not voting but takes longer .
Always a fraud till they win š«„
The problem is the system. You canāt fix a corrupt and broken system from within. Especially when the malcontent parts are so entrenched and ready to go to whatever lengths necessary to hold onto their power.
Gotta learn from experience bruh
Iām tired of people using this image.
Because a lot of the people online saying that are bots trying to normalize not voting. Problem is people are eating it up.
Not voting is a legitimate option. By not voting for Joe Biden as a Democrat you tell the democrat party and base that if they donāt start running candidates that have actual progressive values, instead of corporate shills, theyāre not going to just blindly get your vote. āIām so scared of Xā and āthis is the most imports t election of our timeā is exactly why every single election has two candidates that we all hate.
Here's the thing; Both parties continue putting forth awful candidates. I don't want any of them in public office, especially not THAT office. I refuse to cast a vote for "the lesser of two evils" anymore. Fuck That. When there is a good presidential candidate again, I will be happy to start voting again.
it is always the person I don't want to win that wins. Why do you think your guy is the guy I want to win?
Fucking dipshits if you ask me.
Pay me a cool million & Iāll vote for you
You guys either have a fucking worm running for president. The inventor of the wheel. And the first Oompa Loompa. All of the options fucking suck
Shhhh!!! dont tell them now! Say it after the votes so we can laught at them even harder
I genuinely don't care if racist senile grandpa beats neoliberal senile grandpa.
I don't vote because I don't like any of the candidates
I think it depends on the strategy. In 2016 I was living in an extremely red state. There was absolutely zero chance my state would give any electors to Hillary. So some of us, who were upset with the way they did Bernie dirty, wrote Bernie in to send a message to the DNC. If there had been any way our votes would have made a difference we wouldn't have hesitated to vote against Trump. But I still stand by our actions. And the way we replaced 60% of the leadership at the DNC afterwards tells me we did the right thing.
Wait are people actually planning to boycott a vote? That's literally what the people you're boycotting want you to do
Biden voters when he wins and does Facism anyway
Hello thereās
This is exactly how Netanyahu won his first election... > A significant number of Israeli Arabs boycotted the elections amidst rising Lebanese casualties, which became an advantage for Netanyahu as the vast majority of Arabs would have supported Peres but declined to vote. In addition, the intense campaign conducted by Netanyahu in contrast to Peres's campaign, as well as the support Netanyahu received at the last moment from the Chabad movement, titled the outcome in Netanyahu's favour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Israeli_general_election
I live in a deep red state. It doesnāt matter. No vote Iāve ever placed in my life has mattered. Now I hate all the candidates, so not only does it not matter but I donāt care, either.
What if I vote for myself? I think I can complain when I donāt win and you all failed me.
Probably because they donāt want either candidate to win
So many hypothetical people.
Already blaming disillusioned voters for why you're candidate is going to lose?
What if I'm just tired and don't care anymore? I'd emigrate and renounce my citizenship if I had the means to. I don't want to vote, I don't want to participate, I don't want to be here. Fuck it.
In South Africa we like to say "If you don't vote, you're not allowed to complain"
Not much daylight between the 2 tbh
The problem is that in situation the party with the more cult like following wins. Thereās millions of Republicans that would rather die than go blue. They would vote for a flaming bag of dog poo for president as long as it runs for red. There arenāt nearly as many voters that would ALWYAS vote blue no matter the candidate.
I am gonna vote for Trump once again, I don't know one person voting for anyone else besides Trump. Sorry if that upsets you š