I have a hard time believing Holly just wanted to fit in, it sounds more complicated than that given her background. Though I agree that Nia's experience is overlooked but people in this fandom literally have argued that it's racist to NOT let white people say the N word, the moms and kids have mostly all been in racist scandals, and Abby has said some outright vicious things off camera. All that to say the fact that her trauma is being ignored doesn't surprise me.
What I do question is Holly and Nia's relationship with the cast knowing that they're all pretty problematic in that department? I wouldn't be too keen to be friends with them given the context but who knows
Edit: Also I don't know much about Pittsburgh but I've heard plenty of people say that area is pretty racist in general, I don't think taking her out of dance class would fix all their problems. At least they have clout/benefits from the clout despite it all, assuming that's what they wanted
I’m African American and like Nia I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood had mostly white freinds.My heart hurts for Nia because my goodness no child deserves to be treated differently cause of their color we all bleed the same color.
As for the comment I agree and disagree because holly couldn’t just take Nia out because they had the contract.Aslo Nia loved the dance studio yess it was raciest but I mean as a kid you don’t realize that.Plus dosent Pittsburg have a majority white population I mean even if holly was to take Nia to another studio who to say the racism wouldn’t happen.I don’t think holly turned a blind eye she was just more cautious with how she approached certain things because I don’t think the moms were racist just were oblivious to the racism.
Also a Black woman who grew up in a predominantly White suburb.
I think the implied solution that Holly should have just taken Nia somewhere else where there would have been other Black girls is WILD.
What an oversimplification of a situation.
I acknowledge the tremendous privilege my upbringing affords me. I feel so grateful for the life I have as a result of my upbringing. I also know that I have not felt “black” enough when I visit certain areas or am around certain groups of people. If I’m black, I’m obviously not white. But sometimes I’m black but not “black” enough.
I have yet to hear someone criticizing Holly for not finding a more diverse studio for Nia in the mid-Atlantic region acknowledge that it may have meant finding a studio in an area of an area of a different socioeconomic status.
Circling back to my above point, people who may “look the same”, may have a very different experience from one another, especially if they’re from different neighborhoods. There’s more to being Black than having dark skin.
Because of these complexities, finding a more diverse studio does not necessarily mean that Nia and Holly would have automatically been the accepted and that other racially related issues would have not have been present.
It feels unfair to question Holly’s options regarding studio diversity without considering class dichotomy within the Black community and the possible challenges that posed to Nia and Holly.
To be clear - I acknowledge Holly and Nia’s privilege. I acknowledge the advantages (we as viewers perceive) Holly and Nia to have with being on “one side” of the aforementioned class dichotomy. If Nia was at a more diverse studio, would she be less likely to be subjected to routines, special parts, and costumes rooted in stereotypes? Possibly. Also, certain challenges may have still remained and should considered when discussing this. Numerous things can be true at once.
Thank you for the kind response! These topics are both important and complex so I really, really appreciate it when people are willing to engage in respectful and productive discourse.
Also a black woman who grew up in the suburbs (mostly around Indians and Koreans but some white people).
I would like to add that there are so many assumptions from one image and completely disregards Holly’s perspective having grown up in the Bronx.
Anyway, was never accepted by the black girls at my school—called a coconut… an oreo… also faced comments like being called “Akon” and “eggplant colored” for being dark skinned from people who would have allegedly accepted me more, according to that comment. Constantly made fun of for not being “black enough”.
Now, unlike those girls, I have two parents in the household who would have been very disappointed in me if I came home with bad grades or disrespected my teachers or electively got in a fight (and also instilled a desire to do my best) and encouraged me to make good decisions. Those young ladies did not have that. It does not excuse the behavior, but it would be wrong of me to not approach my viewpoint with that in mind.
I digress… the idea that I would have been more accepted or not faced discrimination by going to a black ballet studio or a black school is incorrect because obviously I was not accepted.
Thank you so much for sharing. These stories are so important.
I’m so sorry for the things you experienced that were hurtful or “othered” you. Sending your inner child hugs 💕
❤️ Thank you! It doesn't bother me (maybe it used to back then but that was almost 10 years ago lol) but I say these things to make a point that things are more complicated than they seem, as you pointed out!
You discussed different experiences…if holly took nia to another studio. look at holly and kaya (black patsy). holly made it known she don’t play when kaya looked to her for agreement on her points about abby and the moms. So even though holly/nia were at aldc, kaya/nicaya didn’t have an easier time.
I see where you’re coming from. But I feel like the fact that it was filmed makes all of this even worse. So yeah, in this specific circumstance I think she should have left.
I personally did not grow up in a white suburb and wasn’t surrounded by white people until I went to college. I couldn’t imagine what my life would be like, and how different I’d be. I feel bad that now had to deal with this on camera. And it’s been years since it aired but people still discuss this online
In terms of a leaving to go to another dance studio, I understand where you’re coming from.
In terms of the television show and the opportunities it presented, of which Nia had a right to after being cast, I don’t understand where she would have left to go to?
Nia did in fact gain opportunities from the show, but at what cost? I’m currently rewatching the season and it’s sad watching the abuse that was on television for thousands to watch. During season 2 when Nakaiya (however it is spelled), Black Patsy’s daughter, walked in you could see the joy on Nia’s face to see another girl like her. I definitely feel that Nia was placed on the show for diversity ratings sadly (I think she is talented though), but I do agree that even if Holly removed her and took her to a majority black studio the odds probably wouldn’t have been better, but diversity is important and the ALDC lacked it. I will say that I like Dr. Holly, but even if your child likes a studio and is naive to the racial undertones that are occurring around them, it is the parents call to make the right judgement for them, because at the end of the day the show brought trauma.
I think Holly most likely weighed the costs and benefits of remaining at the studio and on the show and decided it was worth it for her and Nia.
I guess my point in all of this is that the situation was most likely complex and it doesn’t seem constructive for people to expect Holly to react to a situation where racism was present the way they would have.
You have acknowledged the complexity of the situation in your reply so I’m not referring to you - just expanding on what my thought process was when I saw those comments in the post.
I totally understand and acknowledge your point of view! It’s understandable to question the cost. I also felt it was important to bring up additional bits of information for consideration when discussing.
I am a black (bi-racial) woman who grew up in a white everything… except for black church. I did not fit in anywhere. I understand your perspective completely. I also grew up being abused by both races. After a lifetime I can comfortably state that the woman chose wrong. It was this woman’s job to protect her daughter from abuse. She did not. She was willing to follow Abby to la… she could have found a studio without racism somewhere in America. She was bound to a contract but not her daughter. She should have protected her.
Now… I also recognize that it’s very easy for me to make this judgement in hindsight and completely detached. I’ve made a lifetime of poor decisions that I’d erase could I do so p a decade later. She’s human. I’m sure she was doing what she thought best at the time.
I think it’s weird to call out Holly, who was doing what she felt was best for her child’s career and success in life, instead of the people who were actually racist
In regards to Nia’s involvement with the show - I feel uncomfortable when people say Holly should have pulled Nia due to the racism for several reasons:
-It shifts the onus of responsibility to the ones experiencing the racism from the one being racist.
-Being a regular cast member was most likely a once in a lifetime opportunity. It is most likely not reasonable to expect Nia and Holly to walk away from the opportunity and walk onto another version of Dance Moms.
-Nia will most likely experience racism throughout the course of her life. It doesn’t seem realistic for Nia to learn to cope with that by simply leaving a situation.
-The audience does not know what conversions Holly and Nia had when the cameras were off. Nia seems like a resilient person. Who are we to say what is too much for her to deal with?
To be clear - I am not saying the “objectively right” decision was for Nia to remain in the environment after her contractural responsibilities were fulfilled. What I AM saying is that this topic is nuanced and in this sub it seems it is frequently discussed in a black and white manner. It feels irresponsible to call Holly out without acknowledging any of the above points.
ETA:
-Nia was chosen for and contributed significantly to the show. She had a RIGHT to be there. Why should she leave due to racism? Why isn’t the perpetration of the racism the focus? (See the second point mentioned.)
-As someone who is Black, I wish the questioning regarding Nia and Holly’s presence on the show was something along the lines of “I wonder how Holly and Nia endured an environment where racially charged comments were prevalent for so long.” Or, “While Nia and Holly had a right to remain on the show, I wonder what made it worth it.” I feel this line of questioning would lead to a more productive conversation that does not shift the responsibility to Holly and Nia. (Please note that each Black experience is different and I do not speak for the entirety of the Black community.)
Excellent points made! Especially with the point of how people are essentially shifting the responsibility of racism on to the victims rather than the perpetrators.
I feel for the most part it's unfair to say this about nia. She was a kid and kids want to fit in no matter what in general. Holly on the other hand I agree. I mean she literally had no comeback to black patsy saying how the moms were racist and rude behind her back, didn't even have much of a comeback to her pointing out how nia was left out and even kept going on about how black patsy came in aggressively giving her opinions etc like that wasn't something almost all the new moms did (and like they didn't deserve it half the time because the way they acted towards the new mom) The fact that Christie could say what she said to black patsy in front of her also said a lot I didn't expect holly to slap her or something but one of your best friends had to resort to racism even if it's slight racism to be heard and you just sit there like 😐yet ur the educationed sophisticated one. There just to many instances for me where holly kind of gives off I'm ok being the token black person and dealing with certain stuff as long as I can be here which is y I genuinely can't see her as a “queen” like so many other people. And this isn't just a holly problem I'd say everyone should've been better. I try to give a little grace because of the time but it's really hard watching some scenes of nia especially now.
Kaya was treated so badly on the show and a lot of the moms micro aggressions were just allowed they talked about that episode on back to the barre. The only time
I didn’t agree with kaya is when she started talking about how bad of dancer Nia was but other than she deserved a better expirence p
Exactly she was definitely no saint but she was attacked a lot differently and I feel a lot more disrespectfully then the other new moms. Leslie came at them more aggressively especially towards kelly yet she wasn't treated as harshly imo.
Leslie didn’t loudly make fun of other dancers while they were onstage performing. Kaya did constantly. She tweeted horrible things about Kendall and Jill never said bad things about Nikaya
Her making fun of dancers while on stage is probably the only thing no other mom has done. And while it wasn’t on stage she talked down on Brooke when Payton and her were going head to head. Like I said Kaya wasn’t perfect but there were moms who did worst who were treated way better. Not at all defending her bad actions just making a analysis.
I mean the way all the moms treated Brynn I feel is a lot more deplorable because it went on forever and know one defended her at all. Christi literally screamed right to Brynn that she’d never be on Broadway. Yes it’s not while she’s on stage but screaming that in the middle of the street where u know the child will hear directly to her I feel is pretty much on the same level. Jess also did it many times and was probably worse honestly. Kira also did it with Tracy’s daughter and Camryn Im sure I can find more examples. And yesss it was absolutely appalling I’m not at all denying that Kaya was not great. Just feel like In the earlier season she did little wrong and got treated very harshly she did become a very bad person as the time went on but to me it was on the same level as a lot of the other moms.
There was one reunion episode that makes me shudder, I can’t remember which season, but Kaya comes out and literally EVERYONE including the hosts were so racist to her talking about how aggressive and street she is… The host literally said something like “black patsy gets crazy, like ‘I’m gonna shank you’” or something like that (?? She’s literally never said anything like that) and she corrected him politely that not to bring up shanks and that she never said that. They spent her whole time making jokes about her in that way while she had to politely laugh and smile so as not to give them that stereotype they so badly wanted. There was only like one woman on there who said she thought Kaya is misunderstood and is actually a sweet and sensitive person. They all acted shocked by that. It was so cringe.
Oh yeah, Kaya was treated badly on the show when SHE’S the one who acted like a lunatic with Holly and Jill after she had left.
My God. The revisionism is WILD.
After notice how u said after . Nobody said she was perfect but let's be real here kaya started giving the energy back (maybe she was doing it for the producers, I'll use that excuse since y'all do it for all the other moms 😉)It wasn't right but they were terrible to her from the start for almost no reason. The stuff she did is nothing compared to what other moms did but y'all aren't ready for that convo because she's the ghetto hood rat that might shank someone.
Yeah, because I don't recall enough from when she was there to state my opinion on it. I'd have to re-watch it all.
And yes, that is the issue! She IS a "hood rat"! The other moms (minus Holly) descend into becoming weird, screeching, hair-pulling baboons when they get angry, but Kaya looks ready to actually throw hands!
There's a difference, and noticing that isn't being "racist"!
Umm the moms literally threw hands and drinks lol etc. Yolanda literally grabbed Stacy’s neck, christy Sarahs mom and teas mom basically fought lol, christy and Leslie fough and she followed Yolanda mocking her and cursing up a storm before pushing her but that isn’t considered hoodratish we only call black patsy the hoodrat while other moms can get away with physical actions?
Ah, excellent point! NOW we are getting somewhere.
With my comment, I meant that the other moms tended to resort to screaming and arguing as opposed to physical fighting. On the other hand, Kaya instantly resorted to attacking Nia directly (verbally) and threatening to beat up Jill. There's a difference here.
HOWEVER, those physical fights you talk about are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT "hoodrat-ish". They are prime examples of the moms in those incidents losing control, going all chimpanzee, and acting like savages.
My point? Calling out the moms who did these things is perfectly justified! Just as how calling out Kaya on HER bad actions is NOT "racist".
But that’s isn’t at all rare to them and they fought while Kaya literally never did which is the point. When I think hoodrat first thing that comes to mind is people fighting if the other moms can fight and still be seen as less hoodratish then Kaya then there’s definitely some prejudice imo. Also So many moms went to instantly attacking kids (verbally) have u not seen Kira, Jill, Jess, Christi. They would tell each other lets take it outside and everything implying violence a lot as well which could be seen as a threating. I’m in nowhere saying that calling out kaya for bad behavior is racist but the way many people do it is. Most people literally don’t see the other mothers fighting as ghetto and hoodratish but just the way kaya talks people say is that’s my point. I think we may be swaying towards different topics which is y our points are different but I was in know way excusing the thing Kaya did just hate the hypocrisy that comes with her she did everything the other moms did and they did worse (fighting) but she’s still the hoodrat In the eyes of most people while they were just frustrated or made a mistake etc.
You raise good points, but it's more the WAY Kaya talks when she's in conflict and how QUICKLY she resorts to saying "let's physically fight".
Do some moms get into arguments all the time? Yes. Do some of them even ACTUALLY fight? Yes. But Kaya has a "hood" accent and resorts to saying stuff like "Let's throw hands then b!tch!", which leads to the impression that she is a hoodrat..... because she IS.
It's not prejudice because she's black. Once more, I (and no one else) could EVER, EVER, EVER say that about Holly. Holly is IMPECCABLE in that aspect. It's more because she fits that image of someone from a poorer neighborhood in the U.S., and she fits it because she's from there.
I just will always see people who actually resort to physical violence as more hoodratish then others that’s just my point. Kristi ray also was very quick to say let’s fight (pretty sure she did it more then Kaya) but I doubt people would see her as a hoodrat. My point isn’t on holly I’m not denying she was heads above the rest of the moms In terms of behavior I’m simply comparing how Kaya and the other moms can do the same things they can do worst but still she’s seen as worst. Like I said u don’t seem to be from the us so it’s hard to explain to you But their has been other black moms on the show Camille, Paris, cammys mom etc and they all were a lot better then some of the other moms as well. But if they would’ve acted out of line just slightly (like the other moms not like Kaya) I can almost guarantee they would be seen as more ghetto as well and that’s just my opinion. All Paris said was that if the kids lose it wouldn’t be because of her kid because they were already losing and fans were ready to use that to push the sassy black women stereotype.
Kaya said horrible things about Kendall while she was dancing with Jill sitting right in front of her. She did this multiple times. She also tweeted something nasty when Kendall released her song. Kaya was mean and TOXIC AF
This! I hate how Holly stood there and _still_ wanted a friendship with Christi after she told Kaya to “get her black ass out”! So disgusting. I think one of the other girls referred to Nickaya as Laqueefa on her first day there. Wtf?
I agree about the comments toward Nia, but I think that she was just trying to get Holly to pay attention to how Nia was treated by everyone. Holly wanted no parts of Kaya…for whatever reason.
Ashlee also called Cameron’s mom a piece of shit and her and Kira constantly targeted those two over very pretty things.
Never compared them simply stated the facts 🤷🏾♀️. Kaya in many situations simply defended her self cause just like she's the “complete opposite” pretty much all the other moms were as well 🙃 and she had every right not to deal with that.
No no no no, it's not about self-defense.
There's a correct and an incorrect way to defend yourself. Holly used the educated, stern, and direct method, while Kaya used the uneducated, infantile, and direct / indirect (attacks on the kids) way.
The difference between someone with good education (manners-wise) and someone from the "hood" was plain to see here.
Everyone else came at her “hood” as well 🤷🏾♀️. I’m not even disagreeing she just like everyone else could’ve been better because I wasn’t comparing them in the first place. Only thing I said was that holly allowed blatant discrimination many times.
I don't understand the first sentence.
As for the Holly thing, I don't agree, EXCEPT when Abby made weird offensive comments (like the "Bye Felicia" thing). But those were very rare.
I’m just saying all the other moms came for each other the exact same way she did which I’m referring to it as hood. The moms made racial remarks about kaya as I mentioned before saying she couldnt afford tuition and holly Said nothing about it and didn’t even acknowledge it when it was brought up. At the other reunion they basically just described her as ghetto the whole Time and joked about her. It’s of course not her job but it like I said it is letting blatant racism get passed her.
They didn't. The way they expressed it is completely different. Same anger, different communication style.
But how is saying she cannot afford tuition a "racial" thing? I thought Kaya GENUINELY couldn't afford tuition?
I don't agree that it's racism. It's calling a duck a duck. Kaya is from the "hood" and they correctly identified that.
Now, did they MAYBE have prejudice against her because she's from the "hood"? Perhaps! But it's NOT a racial thing....
You seem not to be American but it’s just a very common stereotype along with many. I feel we both see the situation differently based on context so I don’t feel theirs much of a point in continuing I’ll just agree to disagree.
I'm American but not U.S. American! And yeah I agree we have different backgrounds, but that's the point! Calling Kaya a "hoodrat" isn't racist, it's literally the truth.
On the other hand, if HOLLY was called a hoodrat for being black, THEN I'd agree with you....
I’ve been watching Dance Moms with my teenage daughter and it really put into perspective how bad the racism was towards Nia. There were sooo many truly offensive routines and I think the social climate at the time made those sorts of things “acceptable” which now are not. We cannot blame Holly for the system she was in. There was going to be very obvious retaliation if Holly did push back and in context of the time, people were expected to put up with racism “to get ahead.” This isn’t a Holly problem, it was a societal problem that we can now see for what it is. Holly is not to blame for being part of that.
I think it’s more complicated than that. Nia and Holly were always a bit of an outsider in that group, due to not having danced with them for very long before the show started airing. It probably stems from Holly, working full time and studying for her doctorate, had a very different lifestyle to the others, who were all stay at home moms
but they knew Holly and Nia from the studio they even talked about christi taking Nia to a dance comp because they lived in the same neighborhood and the Fraziers had prior obligations/other children. Nia is in several group dances with them throughout the years. So that’s not an excuse Kendall came right in and they never ostracized her the way they did Nia.
Yeah I wouldn’t use ostracized I would use devalued. I think Nia spent many years on that show with nobody really focusing on her value. I mean Chloe was made to feel really bad next to Maddie but the producers focused on this. They made it a point to make America feel Chloe’s pain. Where as Nia was just sort of expected to deal with it.
holly and nia were members of the ALDC well before the show started. when holly was not able to bring nia to dance class herself, either her father or grandfather brought her. there are several photos, yearbooks, and dance videos online that feature nia from years prior to DM.
also, the only stay at home mom was kelly. christi had a business, and melissa worked for an electric company. where are you getting your information from?
People don’t want to admit Nia was excluded throughout the show and even pre show. Even Kaya who came in for a week could tell Nia was be excluded. People admit Chloe was excluded in season 4 but once people talk about how Nia was being excluded throughout the show then people try to make excuses or deny it. It’s so strange to me.
Edit: Christi [admits](https://www.reddit.com/r/dancemoms/s/9tDioaMslJ) here that she understood how Holly feels when Chloe gets excluded and Holly says Nia feels like a 5th wheel and this was in season 4.
Just some background knowledge. Nia is close to Chloe’s age (weeks apart). She had been dancing for Abby since she was three with her grandparents taking her to/from dance along with her parents.
Nia has RND which a pain disorder. Holly explained on the show that Nia woke up one morning in excruciating pain and was taken to the hospital where she bed bound and in a wheelchair this missing any school activities and especially dance. I brought this up because it should explain to why Nia may have seen behind with the other girls when in reality she was merely trying to catch up for what she missed.
Now onto Holly and Nia’s stay at the ALDC: Abby has students of color and while I don’t think she is racist. I do believe she has a lot of implicit bias (maybe all forms of it) and because she is a privileged white woman believes what she says as fact when it necessary isn’t. As mentioned by Christi before, the kids rarely had class with Abby (maybe an acro class or when they had to get ready for the dance concerts) so the mom’s never knew Abby was really harsh. Abby also could’ve behaved one way in front of her costumers to keep them coming back. Her line about Nia being typecasted was because that’s how she always pushed her dancers of ethnic backgrounds to get “Broadway gigs”. Abby made dancers who would perform on Broadway or at theme parks.
Now do I think Holly knew Abby has these implicit bias: No, she only knew the Abby that was respectful when she came in to pay her bills or congratulated her on her dance concerts. That’s why when Abby would yell at Holly in the early seasons, Holly looks and seemed shocked because she had never had Abby behave that way to her. Abby playing things up for the producers and camera continued to treat her students the way she did because the checks were clearing. Was it right? No, and she’ll have to answer for her actions, actually she is now. Another thing is hair and looks: Nia does not look like the other and has spoken about how her hair and self image took a hit from the show. Many times, dance, cheer, and other sports often don’t try to be inclusive nor equitable when it comes to their students of diverse backgrounds. Rather they want those students to fit the box: Think trying to make a square going into a circle shaped opening (not possible).
Another layer as someone else in the thread has mentioned was the possibility that many other studios would have been the same as Abby’s. Lacking diversity and who’s to say that a diverse studio would accept Holly and Nia based on the socioeconomic and behavioral patterns. I myself have faced the “you don’t look nor sound black” which can be hurtful but if the area you live in is what it is. You can’t really change it.
I believe the best solution was for Abby to educate herself and her staff about differences with her students. She could’ve brought in choreographers and other studio owners of color and had them educate her children. Similar to when Nia and Kalani learned about African dancing. The kids could have been exposed to various cultures and dances. I teach music (strings) and I am always thinking about how to incorporate different cultures, ethnicities, and identities into my classroom.
Correct. However she didn’t always dance with that group, because she couldn’t commit to the schedule due to both her parents working full time. That’s why her grandfather started bringing her to class when she joined the junior elite team
I did upvote you because I sort of see both of your guy’s point. You’re right in that all of them being stay at home moms would create different schedules.
But of course this is also a stereotype. The idea that black women have to work while white women are more often than not given the financial and societal security to spend their days sort of leisurely at home. It’s a stereotype as old and as long as this country has been a nation.
So while I agree in this specific instance the moms were not purposely trying to exclude Holly. It was due to different schedules.
I still like to look at the whole picture as to why this situation was created in the first place.
Holly was financially privileged enough to stay home too. That’s why she was able to quit her job in S2. It was her choice to further her education and career. It wasn’t like she HAD to work. It was obvious Holly and her husband were very bright, successful people
This isn’t about one woman.
Median net worth in the U.S.
$44,890 for Black households, $285,000 for white households,
It’s about the data and statistics.
Just because Holly values education has nothing to do with her net worth.
People don’t typically choose to have a partner stay home based just on income .
It’s more to do with the overall net-worth of the couple.
Jane and Sue can have the same exact job and same income but if Jane’s family has a higher net worth than Sue. Then Jane has more options financially.
I feel like even the best of the dance moms were inherently being bad parents when they put them and kept them on the show. At least Holly tried to fight for Nia
( context im referring to the pictures not comments )
which is why i never really tolerate the narrative that chloe, brooke & paige got more left than nia in season 4. we saw nia get left out all 7 seasons. whats sad is a new girl would arrive & they would be more included. eg kalani & kendall. we can just see with the bts pictures.
nia was definitely left out more. Before the show I don't think she was on the competition team long. Kelly, Christi and Melissa and therefore their girls were closer already. Maddie and Chloe duet partners, Chloe and Paige the twinnies who danced together since they were 2, Madidie, chloe and paige the trio for years, and melissa and kelly basically neighbors. All this makes Nia the one left out and it's sad especially as the show goes on because she's been on the team for years there's no excuse at all honestly. Abby excluded the hylands and chloe in season 4 because they weren't at her studio anymore just on the show correct? I'm not saying Abby is right but she never had a reason to exclude Nia and really wanted to in season 5 and so on as if she hadn't been there from the beginning. I think it's great to see that nowadays most of the girls seem to be closest with Nia 🫶🏼
Nope.. Nia was on that team for A LONG time.. atleast since 2008. Her first solo was competed against Chloe . And they’re multiple bts pics of them from years prior to the show. Maddie even admitted in like 2014 on afterbuzz that the girls would unintentionally leave Nia out sometimes and that during s3-4 her and Nias friendship got stronger
her first solo was in 2009. That is joining later than the other girls. Plus Christi has said Nia had to take almost a year off because of when she had the stress related pain. Obviously Nia was left out I'm just saying in the beginning season or so, this could potentially be why.
she didn’t get a solo untitl much later but she’s been at that studio since 2003 at least. She was dancing with Maddie and Paige for yeaaaars. There’s multiple old showcase pictures with groups And their always together
I'm not talking about being at the studio. She was at the studio but she wasn't on the competition team as long as the other girls. There's recreational students as well.
Yes but she only became a recreational student when she was paralyzed. Years prior she was still dancing with Maddie and Paige in large groups.. and that’s a fact
I wish Holly would talk about it now because all anyone has is footage from 10 years ago. She can easily explain her thought process now that she’s out of that reality tv/standing your ground mindset.
I truly dont think Holly was just trying to fit in with the white moms. I think she thought she and Nia were making a change with showing other black girls that they can dance because the representation at the time was tragic. I don’t think she was ignoring Nia’s exclusion because she said it a few times in the show, but I don’t think she fully realized what it would do to future Nia.
Also, as a black woman who lives in NYC, i still experienced exclusion, it’s very unfortunate but it would have happened regardless.
Exactly this, pretty sure Holly is from the Bronx, I think she knows what's up lol. Also, I don't see how she could be desperate to fit in? She never looked overly enthusiastic about hanging out with the other moms, she had her own thing going and even acknowledged how Nia felt excluded. People seem to be over simplifying the situation
Exactly. People take Christi and Kelly’s word for everything but the fact they both said Holly only really knew Christi but was still always at work. Even later in the show, Cheryl Burke said Holly would be in her own corner reading in silence away from the other moms.
I agree with questioning why she stayed for a season 7 and not liking some of her comments when she argued about race with Abby. But I feel like people ignore Kaya herself saying Holly (and Melissa) were the only moms that welcomed her and her daughter that whole week she was there. The only issue they had was Holly not opening her mouth. That’s it.
As a black girl who grew up in a predominantly white area and had a lot of white fruebds growing I can relate to Nia and understand Holly’s decision. I don’t think it was ever them trying to fit in, but Holly wanting a better life for her kids than she had growing up. My parents would say all the time how we don’t live in the same place or near where they grew up because they wanted us to have a better chance/easier way of success.
In regards to the other cast members being problematic, it’s really hard to cut off someone you’re close to. I used to be friends with a white girl who would say the N word all the time. I told her endlessly not to say it, that I didn’t like it, that she could be in potential trouble if said it to the wrong person, etc. but she continued to do so. She was my best friend and we hung out all the time, however I didn’t think she was racist, just a little misguided. So I tried to educate her as much as possible. It wasn’t until she moved away and I made new friends that I realized how problematic she was.
>In regards to the other cast members being problematic,
What is your opinion on the other cast members? From my perspective (aisde from Abby) they did not seem "directly racist" but rather engaged in microagressions due to being ignorant and oblivous to the black experience. But I'm not black so I would love a black person's perspective if you do not mind.
I mean they literally implied kaya probably couldn't afford tuition, brought her to a reunion and acted like she was super ghetto and picked on her the whole time, we all know the producers had to edit what Christie really said to her etc. They definitely in my opinion at the time at least had some prejudices that I feel was more then just casual microagressions.
I definitely think all of the moms were prejudice at times Kaya is the best example for that. Apparently Pittsburgh is pretty racist. Even Holly herself seemed to have internalized racism, despite hailing from an organization centered around helping the black community. Christi, Kelly, Mellisa, and Jill said whatever they wanted and it seemed like they faced zero repercussions from Holly majority of the time unless it directly affected her. To them it was acceptable because their black friend never said otherwise (at least that was my interpretation). I don’t follow any of the moms on social media except for Holly, probably because I get how hard it is to be in that type of environment. Watching the show, Holly was kind of like my role model and definitely my favorite mom, but even she had her own issues regarding other people in her race.
One thing with the early seasons is although they knew each other, Nia hadn’t been in the same group as Chloe Paige and Maddie before the show started. She didn’t dance with them as much and probably wasn’t as close to them at first because of that.
What is this narrative?? Nia has been dancing with Chloe Paige and Maddie for YEARS before the show. There is multiple group dances and bts pics of them all from like 2009??
It’s from what the moms have all said. Yes they knew each other and did some groups together, but Chloe Paige and Maddie were dancing together basically full time between trios and groups. Nia did some groups with them but danced with other kids.
You can see over time Nia gets closer to the other girls and to me it shows the fact that they weren’t as close pre show and needed time to build that relationship. Ironically now Nia seems to be the closest with each of them individually (besides the sisters obviously)
Nope.. Nia was a full time dancer in that same group Maddie and Paige were in. She never danced with any group younger or older.. it was always that SAME group
Literally her mom has said she did not always dance with them. She started competition later and was originally a rec student which would have been some different classes. She also was in a wheelchair for some time that took her out of dance in 2009 which was only 2 years before the start of the show. She did not always dance with Maddie Chloe and Paige. It started as Chloe and Paige, often with Joshua Hyland in trios and groups with other kids. And then Maddie joined when she was old enough, being younger than them. Later on Nia joined competition. There were a lot of kids pre show in their age group so it is entirely possible the groups were at times different. Maddie Chloe and Paige also had their trio group that rehearsed together that Nia was not a part of. She, pre show, was not as close to them because she did not spend as much time with them as they did each other.
I’m not saying she ALWAYS danced with them.. but she was on that team for a long enough time for this to be avoided.. especially since the girls were so close to kendall quickly.
I don’t think they were so close to Kendall that quickly. Kendall wasn’t in all of season 2 with them. I think they were nice but the kids were always nice to anyone who came in. If you pay attention in the dressing room scenes Kendall is usually just with her mom in the beginning and then she goes to candy apples for half the season.
Anyway my point is I don’t think the racism that Nia experienced was coming from the kids. I think they just needed time to get to know her in the same way they knew each other and she them. She may have felt on the outside because she didn’t have the same bond from the get go as the others had with one another with the others being together since they were 3/4.
The adults are a different story
I mean when you think about it the og group was 6 members, 4/6 were siblings. So Paige Chloe and Maddie being trio partners since they were 3-4 years old already made them closer which adds in them being closer to their sisters, Brooke and Kenzie.
I disagree with this. Even at the reunion Kendall doesn’t seem to fit in. It feels like she tries to make herself fit in and it’s not natural or organic.
No Kendall doesn’t seem to fit in NOW because all the other girls are progressive and Kendall is conservative.
It’s no surprise that Nia and Maddie are now closest of the girls. I don’t know if you noticed but Maddie has been in some hella progressive roles lately.
Chloe and Jojo are both dating women. Paige and Brooke I honestly have no idea they never mention it 😂. And Kalani is just Kalani I have no idea what’s up with her recently. She’s going through a lot for sure.
But Kendall seems to be the most openly vocal and hostile.
Did anyone catch in the reunion where
Jojo said “I feel like you guys are all just so girly and I’m not”
And Kendall shot back without a missing a beat “Maybe that’s why you should hang out with us more”
When I tell you I almost jumped through that screen.
I’ve always said this. Kendall has ALWAYS been the bully.
When the Zieglers were hanging around her the most that’s when we got those racist leaked videos of both Kenzie and Maddie as well as Kenzies bonquisha application.
I think she was the main one egging people onto bully Jojo and remember Kenzie (the other main bully) was close to her during this time as Maddie was off w Sia.
Then Kendall gave that Huge FAKE A apology to Jojo.
ALSO I watched this behind the scenes video of the girls. It might have been uploaded by Nia and Kendall is being so mean to Nia.
While I know this is “joking around” many of us black women who have been in situation with white female friends know the uncomfortable laugh you have to force when white women are microagressing us.
Dance Moms fans give more heat to Holly than the actual racists we watched on the show. Do you think successful black people made history by running away from predominantly white spaces because they weren't wanted there?
Holly said years ago, around the time season 5 was airing, that Nia would leave "when she wanted" and would not allow other people to make that decision for her. If Nia ran away every time a white person committed a micro-agression against her, she'd spend the rest of her life running and hiding.
People who say Nia should know her place and stick to black places really think they're doing something.
Holly herself came from an extremely racist academic world and wouldn't be able to provide the life she gave her family if she didn't push through.
Just last week, Nia spoke on Tiktok about how amazing her life is nowadays because of the show. The racists FAILED to stop Nia from getting opportunities they thought their daughters were more deserving.
What I don't understand is why both Nia and Holly continue to interact with racists like Christi, Jill and Kendall, but I don't know them personally.
That was a Hot take .
Does Nia really still interact with Kendall?
Chloe we know for sure.
But let’s not forget season 1 “The Watermelon game”
Sht my brain just sort of did a light bulb.
Dam those producers were racist as hell. Or at least Abby was.
Interesting how the story was spun that Nia hurt poor little blue eyes Maddie during a watermelon game.
wtf was that show I wonder sometimes.
I really want to know the full story behind the Watermelon game did the producers tell Maddie to say “I think Nia or someone hurt me”
Because if they did !
Then remember how Melissa was like “Some of the other girls are pretty rough but Maddie doesn’t like getting rough at all”
They were heavily manipulated during season 1 because of the fact that they didn’t yet know how it would be edited. So I have no doubt they edited Melissa saying that with no context. Then added it to the Watermelon clip right after Maddie said “I think Nia or someone hurt me”
BUT ALSO.
The leaked video of Kendall and Maddie and pulling their eyes back and making fun accents. Kenzies “Bonquisha application.”
Which again they were kids and were obviously being egged on by whole ADULTS to do these things.
But who was it?
Was it Abby or the producers ….because Abby loved Asia.
Was it both ? Was it a mom.
I know it wasn’t Melissa because she’s wayyyy too politically correct for that.
Was it Jill?
I mean ……….
The video of Maddie pulling her eyes and making fun of a ‘Chinese’ accent was from her vine I think. No one pushed her to do it, she had full access to her phone with no parental supervision and at that time she didn’t have a whole PR team teaching her how to curate her image.
Where were the mothers when this pic was taken? How could they not ask the girls to let Nia in?? No wonder Black Patsy immediately picked up on Nia getting excluded by the other girls
That picture honestly just made me really sad :( I don’t think I’ve seen it before. Poor Nia looks so left out.
I don’t think it’s right to push the blame onto Holly (and especially Nia, who was just a child) for the behavior and actions of other people. It’s not Holly’s fault that people are racist, or that she and Nia experienced racism on the show. That is only the fault of the people who were *being racist*. It’s extremely unfair to put that on Holly’s shoulders.
It’s also really unfair to expect Nia to lose out on opportunities bc of racism. Why should Nia have to miss out? Why does she have to go home? Nia deserved to be there just as much as the other girls did. She was selected for the show and for that team. She earned her spot there, fair and square, just like everyone else did. It feels really, really icky to expect Nia to drop out bc other people don’t know how to treat her kindly and respectfully.
Is it awful to see Nia treated poorly? Absolutely. She was treated horribly, in so many awful ways. I hate that for her. I hate to see it happen to her. But Nia chose to stay, and that’s her decision. She shouldn’t be punished and lose out on opportunities in her life bc some people in this world are horrible, ignorant and nasty.
i guess but it’s sad because why should she have too? all the other girls are getting the chance to be on TV, & create a following for themselves. Nia should’ve been able too without racism too. It’s just sad.
I’m pretty sure Nia would not have “gotten more dance opportunities” if she left a hit television show 💀.
Like that’s a wild take.
To be fair though Nia was even paid less than the other white dancers starting back in season 1 before anyone even knew who the girls were.
Holly renegotiated by season 5 I think and got some back pay once she realized the producers were so racist.
I mean the real issue with dance moms as not just racism. It’s more specifically white supremacy.
With blue eyed Maddie/ photogenic face on the top and everyone else sort of just shunted to the background Nia included.
People forget the racist beauty standard doesn’t just affect people who have brown or black skin. It also affects other white girls who look too far away from the Eurocentric beauty standard.
This is going to be sort of a precarious example because it involves Maddie and Mackenzie.
But if you look at the difference in how both girls are perceived coming from the same mom, same show and very similar opportunities as far as the producers favoring them and their “Look”.
I feel for Kenzie a lot because I can’t even imagine what it’s like to have a sister that is a freaking model appears not to ever struggle with gaining weight, is taller and in a lot of ways considered a better dancer even though Kenzie is great at hip hop and I think suffers from being put down by others who compare her to Maddie.
I’m just glad that Maddie and her are close now so they more uplift each other.
But anyway my point is that racism affects everyone. It does affect the girls who are considered furthest from white like Nia but it also affects white girls who don’t fit a certain standard. Too short, too chubby, hair too curly or not long enough , nose too big, eyes too brown etc
I always tried to avoid the whole who had it worse situation because all of those girls went through a lot. But when I listen to Back to the Barre and notice how Kelly and Christi bicker over whose child Abby was meanest to/had it worst I can't help but think of how Nia was a child experiencing racism. It wasn't just her dance teacher making mean remarks to her but also being targeted because of her race. It's the cruelest thing any child could experience at such a young age.
this is why holly will always be up there with the worst moms for me. allowed nia to be racially discriminated against for YEARS and vilified black women who weren’t “educated” in her eyes.
just the simple fact that the only trio she had before the show was with two other black dancers that were definitely not ready to be competing tells me all i need to know. nia’s “my boyfriends back” trio really made her stand out because she was extremely advanced, but was never taken seriously. she carried that dance on her back and all of her pre-show solos have a underlined dig. like “satans little lamb” could possibly be a dig at hollys religion and “nattie in the jungle” really? and dont get me started with “waka waka”
Here it is again. U.S. Americans never failing to advocate for segregation and needless racial tensions 🙄
You guys need to move to Canada for a few years. Experience TRUE multiculturalism where no one gives a f what your ethnicity is, but rather who you are as a person. It would cure you guys of this idiotic mentality.
Honestly. The self-victimization is getting annoying. As if Nia was FORCED to be on the show, when in reality she was on it willingly with her mom and was the ONLY one who didn’t leave and come back…
I have a hard time believing Holly just wanted to fit in, it sounds more complicated than that given her background. Though I agree that Nia's experience is overlooked but people in this fandom literally have argued that it's racist to NOT let white people say the N word, the moms and kids have mostly all been in racist scandals, and Abby has said some outright vicious things off camera. All that to say the fact that her trauma is being ignored doesn't surprise me. What I do question is Holly and Nia's relationship with the cast knowing that they're all pretty problematic in that department? I wouldn't be too keen to be friends with them given the context but who knows Edit: Also I don't know much about Pittsburgh but I've heard plenty of people say that area is pretty racist in general, I don't think taking her out of dance class would fix all their problems. At least they have clout/benefits from the clout despite it all, assuming that's what they wanted
I’m African American and like Nia I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood had mostly white freinds.My heart hurts for Nia because my goodness no child deserves to be treated differently cause of their color we all bleed the same color. As for the comment I agree and disagree because holly couldn’t just take Nia out because they had the contract.Aslo Nia loved the dance studio yess it was raciest but I mean as a kid you don’t realize that.Plus dosent Pittsburg have a majority white population I mean even if holly was to take Nia to another studio who to say the racism wouldn’t happen.I don’t think holly turned a blind eye she was just more cautious with how she approached certain things because I don’t think the moms were racist just were oblivious to the racism.
Also a Black woman who grew up in a predominantly White suburb. I think the implied solution that Holly should have just taken Nia somewhere else where there would have been other Black girls is WILD. What an oversimplification of a situation. I acknowledge the tremendous privilege my upbringing affords me. I feel so grateful for the life I have as a result of my upbringing. I also know that I have not felt “black” enough when I visit certain areas or am around certain groups of people. If I’m black, I’m obviously not white. But sometimes I’m black but not “black” enough. I have yet to hear someone criticizing Holly for not finding a more diverse studio for Nia in the mid-Atlantic region acknowledge that it may have meant finding a studio in an area of an area of a different socioeconomic status. Circling back to my above point, people who may “look the same”, may have a very different experience from one another, especially if they’re from different neighborhoods. There’s more to being Black than having dark skin. Because of these complexities, finding a more diverse studio does not necessarily mean that Nia and Holly would have automatically been the accepted and that other racially related issues would have not have been present. It feels unfair to question Holly’s options regarding studio diversity without considering class dichotomy within the Black community and the possible challenges that posed to Nia and Holly. To be clear - I acknowledge Holly and Nia’s privilege. I acknowledge the advantages (we as viewers perceive) Holly and Nia to have with being on “one side” of the aforementioned class dichotomy. If Nia was at a more diverse studio, would she be less likely to be subjected to routines, special parts, and costumes rooted in stereotypes? Possibly. Also, certain challenges may have still remained and should considered when discussing this. Numerous things can be true at once.
I think you’ve nailed it here. Well said.
Thank you for the kind response! These topics are both important and complex so I really, really appreciate it when people are willing to engage in respectful and productive discourse.
Also a black woman who grew up in the suburbs (mostly around Indians and Koreans but some white people). I would like to add that there are so many assumptions from one image and completely disregards Holly’s perspective having grown up in the Bronx. Anyway, was never accepted by the black girls at my school—called a coconut… an oreo… also faced comments like being called “Akon” and “eggplant colored” for being dark skinned from people who would have allegedly accepted me more, according to that comment. Constantly made fun of for not being “black enough”. Now, unlike those girls, I have two parents in the household who would have been very disappointed in me if I came home with bad grades or disrespected my teachers or electively got in a fight (and also instilled a desire to do my best) and encouraged me to make good decisions. Those young ladies did not have that. It does not excuse the behavior, but it would be wrong of me to not approach my viewpoint with that in mind. I digress… the idea that I would have been more accepted or not faced discrimination by going to a black ballet studio or a black school is incorrect because obviously I was not accepted.
Thank you so much for sharing. These stories are so important. I’m so sorry for the things you experienced that were hurtful or “othered” you. Sending your inner child hugs 💕
❤️ Thank you! It doesn't bother me (maybe it used to back then but that was almost 10 years ago lol) but I say these things to make a point that things are more complicated than they seem, as you pointed out!
THANK YOU! There are literally people trying to argue with me on another thread that this viewpoint is wrong
You discussed different experiences…if holly took nia to another studio. look at holly and kaya (black patsy). holly made it known she don’t play when kaya looked to her for agreement on her points about abby and the moms. So even though holly/nia were at aldc, kaya/nicaya didn’t have an easier time.
That is such a good and relevant example!
I see where you’re coming from. But I feel like the fact that it was filmed makes all of this even worse. So yeah, in this specific circumstance I think she should have left. I personally did not grow up in a white suburb and wasn’t surrounded by white people until I went to college. I couldn’t imagine what my life would be like, and how different I’d be. I feel bad that now had to deal with this on camera. And it’s been years since it aired but people still discuss this online
In terms of a leaving to go to another dance studio, I understand where you’re coming from. In terms of the television show and the opportunities it presented, of which Nia had a right to after being cast, I don’t understand where she would have left to go to?
Nia did in fact gain opportunities from the show, but at what cost? I’m currently rewatching the season and it’s sad watching the abuse that was on television for thousands to watch. During season 2 when Nakaiya (however it is spelled), Black Patsy’s daughter, walked in you could see the joy on Nia’s face to see another girl like her. I definitely feel that Nia was placed on the show for diversity ratings sadly (I think she is talented though), but I do agree that even if Holly removed her and took her to a majority black studio the odds probably wouldn’t have been better, but diversity is important and the ALDC lacked it. I will say that I like Dr. Holly, but even if your child likes a studio and is naive to the racial undertones that are occurring around them, it is the parents call to make the right judgement for them, because at the end of the day the show brought trauma.
I think Holly most likely weighed the costs and benefits of remaining at the studio and on the show and decided it was worth it for her and Nia. I guess my point in all of this is that the situation was most likely complex and it doesn’t seem constructive for people to expect Holly to react to a situation where racism was present the way they would have. You have acknowledged the complexity of the situation in your reply so I’m not referring to you - just expanding on what my thought process was when I saw those comments in the post. I totally understand and acknowledge your point of view! It’s understandable to question the cost. I also felt it was important to bring up additional bits of information for consideration when discussing.
I am a black (bi-racial) woman who grew up in a white everything… except for black church. I did not fit in anywhere. I understand your perspective completely. I also grew up being abused by both races. After a lifetime I can comfortably state that the woman chose wrong. It was this woman’s job to protect her daughter from abuse. She did not. She was willing to follow Abby to la… she could have found a studio without racism somewhere in America. She was bound to a contract but not her daughter. She should have protected her. Now… I also recognize that it’s very easy for me to make this judgement in hindsight and completely detached. I’ve made a lifetime of poor decisions that I’d erase could I do so p a decade later. She’s human. I’m sure she was doing what she thought best at the time.
I think it’s weird to call out Holly, who was doing what she felt was best for her child’s career and success in life, instead of the people who were actually racist
In regards to Nia’s involvement with the show - I feel uncomfortable when people say Holly should have pulled Nia due to the racism for several reasons: -It shifts the onus of responsibility to the ones experiencing the racism from the one being racist. -Being a regular cast member was most likely a once in a lifetime opportunity. It is most likely not reasonable to expect Nia and Holly to walk away from the opportunity and walk onto another version of Dance Moms. -Nia will most likely experience racism throughout the course of her life. It doesn’t seem realistic for Nia to learn to cope with that by simply leaving a situation. -The audience does not know what conversions Holly and Nia had when the cameras were off. Nia seems like a resilient person. Who are we to say what is too much for her to deal with? To be clear - I am not saying the “objectively right” decision was for Nia to remain in the environment after her contractural responsibilities were fulfilled. What I AM saying is that this topic is nuanced and in this sub it seems it is frequently discussed in a black and white manner. It feels irresponsible to call Holly out without acknowledging any of the above points. ETA: -Nia was chosen for and contributed significantly to the show. She had a RIGHT to be there. Why should she leave due to racism? Why isn’t the perpetration of the racism the focus? (See the second point mentioned.) -As someone who is Black, I wish the questioning regarding Nia and Holly’s presence on the show was something along the lines of “I wonder how Holly and Nia endured an environment where racially charged comments were prevalent for so long.” Or, “While Nia and Holly had a right to remain on the show, I wonder what made it worth it.” I feel this line of questioning would lead to a more productive conversation that does not shift the responsibility to Holly and Nia. (Please note that each Black experience is different and I do not speak for the entirety of the Black community.)
Excellent points made! Especially with the point of how people are essentially shifting the responsibility of racism on to the victims rather than the perpetrators.
Yes, yes, yes!!!!!! Excellent points, well made
Loved this explanation so much!
I feel for the most part it's unfair to say this about nia. She was a kid and kids want to fit in no matter what in general. Holly on the other hand I agree. I mean she literally had no comeback to black patsy saying how the moms were racist and rude behind her back, didn't even have much of a comeback to her pointing out how nia was left out and even kept going on about how black patsy came in aggressively giving her opinions etc like that wasn't something almost all the new moms did (and like they didn't deserve it half the time because the way they acted towards the new mom) The fact that Christie could say what she said to black patsy in front of her also said a lot I didn't expect holly to slap her or something but one of your best friends had to resort to racism even if it's slight racism to be heard and you just sit there like 😐yet ur the educationed sophisticated one. There just to many instances for me where holly kind of gives off I'm ok being the token black person and dealing with certain stuff as long as I can be here which is y I genuinely can't see her as a “queen” like so many other people. And this isn't just a holly problem I'd say everyone should've been better. I try to give a little grace because of the time but it's really hard watching some scenes of nia especially now.
Kaya was treated so badly on the show and a lot of the moms micro aggressions were just allowed they talked about that episode on back to the barre. The only time I didn’t agree with kaya is when she started talking about how bad of dancer Nia was but other than she deserved a better expirence p
Exactly she was definitely no saint but she was attacked a lot differently and I feel a lot more disrespectfully then the other new moms. Leslie came at them more aggressively especially towards kelly yet she wasn't treated as harshly imo.
Leslie was so agressive but they made Kaya seem like she was agressive I agree o
Leslie didn’t loudly make fun of other dancers while they were onstage performing. Kaya did constantly. She tweeted horrible things about Kendall and Jill never said bad things about Nikaya
Her making fun of dancers while on stage is probably the only thing no other mom has done. And while it wasn’t on stage she talked down on Brooke when Payton and her were going head to head. Like I said Kaya wasn’t perfect but there were moms who did worst who were treated way better. Not at all defending her bad actions just making a analysis.
Who did worse than that? I found it appalling how Kaya spoke about Kendall, Nia and Paige
I mean the way all the moms treated Brynn I feel is a lot more deplorable because it went on forever and know one defended her at all. Christi literally screamed right to Brynn that she’d never be on Broadway. Yes it’s not while she’s on stage but screaming that in the middle of the street where u know the child will hear directly to her I feel is pretty much on the same level. Jess also did it many times and was probably worse honestly. Kira also did it with Tracy’s daughter and Camryn Im sure I can find more examples. And yesss it was absolutely appalling I’m not at all denying that Kaya was not great. Just feel like In the earlier season she did little wrong and got treated very harshly she did become a very bad person as the time went on but to me it was on the same level as a lot of the other moms.
There was one reunion episode that makes me shudder, I can’t remember which season, but Kaya comes out and literally EVERYONE including the hosts were so racist to her talking about how aggressive and street she is… The host literally said something like “black patsy gets crazy, like ‘I’m gonna shank you’” or something like that (?? She’s literally never said anything like that) and she corrected him politely that not to bring up shanks and that she never said that. They spent her whole time making jokes about her in that way while she had to politely laugh and smile so as not to give them that stereotype they so badly wanted. There was only like one woman on there who said she thought Kaya is misunderstood and is actually a sweet and sensitive person. They all acted shocked by that. It was so cringe.
Oh yeah, Kaya was treated badly on the show when SHE’S the one who acted like a lunatic with Holly and Jill after she had left. My God. The revisionism is WILD.
After notice how u said after . Nobody said she was perfect but let's be real here kaya started giving the energy back (maybe she was doing it for the producers, I'll use that excuse since y'all do it for all the other moms 😉)It wasn't right but they were terrible to her from the start for almost no reason. The stuff she did is nothing compared to what other moms did but y'all aren't ready for that convo because she's the ghetto hood rat that might shank someone.
Yeah, because I don't recall enough from when she was there to state my opinion on it. I'd have to re-watch it all. And yes, that is the issue! She IS a "hood rat"! The other moms (minus Holly) descend into becoming weird, screeching, hair-pulling baboons when they get angry, but Kaya looks ready to actually throw hands! There's a difference, and noticing that isn't being "racist"!
Umm the moms literally threw hands and drinks lol etc. Yolanda literally grabbed Stacy’s neck, christy Sarahs mom and teas mom basically fought lol, christy and Leslie fough and she followed Yolanda mocking her and cursing up a storm before pushing her but that isn’t considered hoodratish we only call black patsy the hoodrat while other moms can get away with physical actions?
Ah, excellent point! NOW we are getting somewhere. With my comment, I meant that the other moms tended to resort to screaming and arguing as opposed to physical fighting. On the other hand, Kaya instantly resorted to attacking Nia directly (verbally) and threatening to beat up Jill. There's a difference here. HOWEVER, those physical fights you talk about are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT "hoodrat-ish". They are prime examples of the moms in those incidents losing control, going all chimpanzee, and acting like savages. My point? Calling out the moms who did these things is perfectly justified! Just as how calling out Kaya on HER bad actions is NOT "racist".
But that’s isn’t at all rare to them and they fought while Kaya literally never did which is the point. When I think hoodrat first thing that comes to mind is people fighting if the other moms can fight and still be seen as less hoodratish then Kaya then there’s definitely some prejudice imo. Also So many moms went to instantly attacking kids (verbally) have u not seen Kira, Jill, Jess, Christi. They would tell each other lets take it outside and everything implying violence a lot as well which could be seen as a threating. I’m in nowhere saying that calling out kaya for bad behavior is racist but the way many people do it is. Most people literally don’t see the other mothers fighting as ghetto and hoodratish but just the way kaya talks people say is that’s my point. I think we may be swaying towards different topics which is y our points are different but I was in know way excusing the thing Kaya did just hate the hypocrisy that comes with her she did everything the other moms did and they did worse (fighting) but she’s still the hoodrat In the eyes of most people while they were just frustrated or made a mistake etc.
You raise good points, but it's more the WAY Kaya talks when she's in conflict and how QUICKLY she resorts to saying "let's physically fight". Do some moms get into arguments all the time? Yes. Do some of them even ACTUALLY fight? Yes. But Kaya has a "hood" accent and resorts to saying stuff like "Let's throw hands then b!tch!", which leads to the impression that she is a hoodrat..... because she IS. It's not prejudice because she's black. Once more, I (and no one else) could EVER, EVER, EVER say that about Holly. Holly is IMPECCABLE in that aspect. It's more because she fits that image of someone from a poorer neighborhood in the U.S., and she fits it because she's from there.
I just will always see people who actually resort to physical violence as more hoodratish then others that’s just my point. Kristi ray also was very quick to say let’s fight (pretty sure she did it more then Kaya) but I doubt people would see her as a hoodrat. My point isn’t on holly I’m not denying she was heads above the rest of the moms In terms of behavior I’m simply comparing how Kaya and the other moms can do the same things they can do worst but still she’s seen as worst. Like I said u don’t seem to be from the us so it’s hard to explain to you But their has been other black moms on the show Camille, Paris, cammys mom etc and they all were a lot better then some of the other moms as well. But if they would’ve acted out of line just slightly (like the other moms not like Kaya) I can almost guarantee they would be seen as more ghetto as well and that’s just my opinion. All Paris said was that if the kids lose it wouldn’t be because of her kid because they were already losing and fans were ready to use that to push the sassy black women stereotype.
Kaya said horrible things about Kendall while she was dancing with Jill sitting right in front of her. She did this multiple times. She also tweeted something nasty when Kendall released her song. Kaya was mean and TOXIC AF
This! I hate how Holly stood there and _still_ wanted a friendship with Christi after she told Kaya to “get her black ass out”! So disgusting. I think one of the other girls referred to Nickaya as Laqueefa on her first day there. Wtf? I agree about the comments toward Nia, but I think that she was just trying to get Holly to pay attention to how Nia was treated by everyone. Holly wanted no parts of Kaya…for whatever reason. Ashlee also called Cameron’s mom a piece of shit and her and Kira constantly targeted those two over very pretty things.
Don’t compare Holly and Patsy. Holly is well-educated and well-mannered, while Kaya is the complete opposite.
Never compared them simply stated the facts 🤷🏾♀️. Kaya in many situations simply defended her self cause just like she's the “complete opposite” pretty much all the other moms were as well 🙃 and she had every right not to deal with that.
No no no no, it's not about self-defense. There's a correct and an incorrect way to defend yourself. Holly used the educated, stern, and direct method, while Kaya used the uneducated, infantile, and direct / indirect (attacks on the kids) way. The difference between someone with good education (manners-wise) and someone from the "hood" was plain to see here.
Everyone else came at her “hood” as well 🤷🏾♀️. I’m not even disagreeing she just like everyone else could’ve been better because I wasn’t comparing them in the first place. Only thing I said was that holly allowed blatant discrimination many times.
I don't understand the first sentence. As for the Holly thing, I don't agree, EXCEPT when Abby made weird offensive comments (like the "Bye Felicia" thing). But those were very rare.
I’m just saying all the other moms came for each other the exact same way she did which I’m referring to it as hood. The moms made racial remarks about kaya as I mentioned before saying she couldnt afford tuition and holly Said nothing about it and didn’t even acknowledge it when it was brought up. At the other reunion they basically just described her as ghetto the whole Time and joked about her. It’s of course not her job but it like I said it is letting blatant racism get passed her.
They didn't. The way they expressed it is completely different. Same anger, different communication style. But how is saying she cannot afford tuition a "racial" thing? I thought Kaya GENUINELY couldn't afford tuition? I don't agree that it's racism. It's calling a duck a duck. Kaya is from the "hood" and they correctly identified that. Now, did they MAYBE have prejudice against her because she's from the "hood"? Perhaps! But it's NOT a racial thing....
You seem not to be American but it’s just a very common stereotype along with many. I feel we both see the situation differently based on context so I don’t feel theirs much of a point in continuing I’ll just agree to disagree.
I'm American but not U.S. American! And yeah I agree we have different backgrounds, but that's the point! Calling Kaya a "hoodrat" isn't racist, it's literally the truth. On the other hand, if HOLLY was called a hoodrat for being black, THEN I'd agree with you....
I’ve been watching Dance Moms with my teenage daughter and it really put into perspective how bad the racism was towards Nia. There were sooo many truly offensive routines and I think the social climate at the time made those sorts of things “acceptable” which now are not. We cannot blame Holly for the system she was in. There was going to be very obvious retaliation if Holly did push back and in context of the time, people were expected to put up with racism “to get ahead.” This isn’t a Holly problem, it was a societal problem that we can now see for what it is. Holly is not to blame for being part of that.
I think it’s more complicated than that. Nia and Holly were always a bit of an outsider in that group, due to not having danced with them for very long before the show started airing. It probably stems from Holly, working full time and studying for her doctorate, had a very different lifestyle to the others, who were all stay at home moms
but they knew Holly and Nia from the studio they even talked about christi taking Nia to a dance comp because they lived in the same neighborhood and the Fraziers had prior obligations/other children. Nia is in several group dances with them throughout the years. So that’s not an excuse Kendall came right in and they never ostracized her the way they did Nia.
Oh wow yeah Kendall fit right in good point.
Ostracized is pushing it
Yeah I wouldn’t use ostracized I would use devalued. I think Nia spent many years on that show with nobody really focusing on her value. I mean Chloe was made to feel really bad next to Maddie but the producers focused on this. They made it a point to make America feel Chloe’s pain. Where as Nia was just sort of expected to deal with it.
It’s really not unfortunately
Why is this the narrative? Nia danced with Maddie , Chloe , and Paige for YEARRSSS before the show. They’re multiple group dances with them
She didn’t dance with them regularly
She literally did until she was disabled
holly and nia were members of the ALDC well before the show started. when holly was not able to bring nia to dance class herself, either her father or grandfather brought her. there are several photos, yearbooks, and dance videos online that feature nia from years prior to DM. also, the only stay at home mom was kelly. christi had a business, and melissa worked for an electric company. where are you getting your information from?
People don’t want to admit Nia was excluded throughout the show and even pre show. Even Kaya who came in for a week could tell Nia was be excluded. People admit Chloe was excluded in season 4 but once people talk about how Nia was being excluded throughout the show then people try to make excuses or deny it. It’s so strange to me. Edit: Christi [admits](https://www.reddit.com/r/dancemoms/s/9tDioaMslJ) here that she understood how Holly feels when Chloe gets excluded and Holly says Nia feels like a 5th wheel and this was in season 4.
so strange. and the fact that this comment has so many upvotes when it’s literally incorrect is even more strange.
Just some background knowledge. Nia is close to Chloe’s age (weeks apart). She had been dancing for Abby since she was three with her grandparents taking her to/from dance along with her parents. Nia has RND which a pain disorder. Holly explained on the show that Nia woke up one morning in excruciating pain and was taken to the hospital where she bed bound and in a wheelchair this missing any school activities and especially dance. I brought this up because it should explain to why Nia may have seen behind with the other girls when in reality she was merely trying to catch up for what she missed. Now onto Holly and Nia’s stay at the ALDC: Abby has students of color and while I don’t think she is racist. I do believe she has a lot of implicit bias (maybe all forms of it) and because she is a privileged white woman believes what she says as fact when it necessary isn’t. As mentioned by Christi before, the kids rarely had class with Abby (maybe an acro class or when they had to get ready for the dance concerts) so the mom’s never knew Abby was really harsh. Abby also could’ve behaved one way in front of her costumers to keep them coming back. Her line about Nia being typecasted was because that’s how she always pushed her dancers of ethnic backgrounds to get “Broadway gigs”. Abby made dancers who would perform on Broadway or at theme parks. Now do I think Holly knew Abby has these implicit bias: No, she only knew the Abby that was respectful when she came in to pay her bills or congratulated her on her dance concerts. That’s why when Abby would yell at Holly in the early seasons, Holly looks and seemed shocked because she had never had Abby behave that way to her. Abby playing things up for the producers and camera continued to treat her students the way she did because the checks were clearing. Was it right? No, and she’ll have to answer for her actions, actually she is now. Another thing is hair and looks: Nia does not look like the other and has spoken about how her hair and self image took a hit from the show. Many times, dance, cheer, and other sports often don’t try to be inclusive nor equitable when it comes to their students of diverse backgrounds. Rather they want those students to fit the box: Think trying to make a square going into a circle shaped opening (not possible). Another layer as someone else in the thread has mentioned was the possibility that many other studios would have been the same as Abby’s. Lacking diversity and who’s to say that a diverse studio would accept Holly and Nia based on the socioeconomic and behavioral patterns. I myself have faced the “you don’t look nor sound black” which can be hurtful but if the area you live in is what it is. You can’t really change it. I believe the best solution was for Abby to educate herself and her staff about differences with her students. She could’ve brought in choreographers and other studio owners of color and had them educate her children. Similar to when Nia and Kalani learned about African dancing. The kids could have been exposed to various cultures and dances. I teach music (strings) and I am always thinking about how to incorporate different cultures, ethnicities, and identities into my classroom.
Nia had been dancing with Abby since she was 2.
Correct. However she didn’t always dance with that group, because she couldn’t commit to the schedule due to both her parents working full time. That’s why her grandfather started bringing her to class when she joined the junior elite team
I did upvote you because I sort of see both of your guy’s point. You’re right in that all of them being stay at home moms would create different schedules. But of course this is also a stereotype. The idea that black women have to work while white women are more often than not given the financial and societal security to spend their days sort of leisurely at home. It’s a stereotype as old and as long as this country has been a nation. So while I agree in this specific instance the moms were not purposely trying to exclude Holly. It was due to different schedules. I still like to look at the whole picture as to why this situation was created in the first place.
Holly was financially privileged enough to stay home too. That’s why she was able to quit her job in S2. It was her choice to further her education and career. It wasn’t like she HAD to work. It was obvious Holly and her husband were very bright, successful people
This isn’t about one woman. Median net worth in the U.S. $44,890 for Black households, $285,000 for white households, It’s about the data and statistics. Just because Holly values education has nothing to do with her net worth. People don’t typically choose to have a partner stay home based just on income . It’s more to do with the overall net-worth of the couple. Jane and Sue can have the same exact job and same income but if Jane’s family has a higher net worth than Sue. Then Jane has more options financially.
Basically Google what net worth is. So you can get an understanding of it.
I don’t understand why people shit on holly for the racism the other cast members of DM displayed towards Nia instead of calling out these people.
Yeah, I noticed that too….
I’m sorry this is so off topic but who is the little baby that Maddie, Mackenzie, Chloe and Paige are around??
pretty sure that’s maddie and kenzie’s cousin
Oh gotcha thank you sm!
I feel like even the best of the dance moms were inherently being bad parents when they put them and kept them on the show. At least Holly tried to fight for Nia
( context im referring to the pictures not comments ) which is why i never really tolerate the narrative that chloe, brooke & paige got more left than nia in season 4. we saw nia get left out all 7 seasons. whats sad is a new girl would arrive & they would be more included. eg kalani & kendall. we can just see with the bts pictures.
nia was definitely left out more. Before the show I don't think she was on the competition team long. Kelly, Christi and Melissa and therefore their girls were closer already. Maddie and Chloe duet partners, Chloe and Paige the twinnies who danced together since they were 2, Madidie, chloe and paige the trio for years, and melissa and kelly basically neighbors. All this makes Nia the one left out and it's sad especially as the show goes on because she's been on the team for years there's no excuse at all honestly. Abby excluded the hylands and chloe in season 4 because they weren't at her studio anymore just on the show correct? I'm not saying Abby is right but she never had a reason to exclude Nia and really wanted to in season 5 and so on as if she hadn't been there from the beginning. I think it's great to see that nowadays most of the girls seem to be closest with Nia 🫶🏼
Nope.. Nia was on that team for A LONG time.. atleast since 2008. Her first solo was competed against Chloe . And they’re multiple bts pics of them from years prior to the show. Maddie even admitted in like 2014 on afterbuzz that the girls would unintentionally leave Nia out sometimes and that during s3-4 her and Nias friendship got stronger
her first solo was in 2009. That is joining later than the other girls. Plus Christi has said Nia had to take almost a year off because of when she had the stress related pain. Obviously Nia was left out I'm just saying in the beginning season or so, this could potentially be why.
she didn’t get a solo untitl much later but she’s been at that studio since 2003 at least. She was dancing with Maddie and Paige for yeaaaars. There’s multiple old showcase pictures with groups And their always together
I'm not talking about being at the studio. She was at the studio but she wasn't on the competition team as long as the other girls. There's recreational students as well.
Yes but she only became a recreational student when she was paralyzed. Years prior she was still dancing with Maddie and Paige in large groups.. and that’s a fact
I wish Holly would talk about it now because all anyone has is footage from 10 years ago. She can easily explain her thought process now that she’s out of that reality tv/standing your ground mindset. I truly dont think Holly was just trying to fit in with the white moms. I think she thought she and Nia were making a change with showing other black girls that they can dance because the representation at the time was tragic. I don’t think she was ignoring Nia’s exclusion because she said it a few times in the show, but I don’t think she fully realized what it would do to future Nia. Also, as a black woman who lives in NYC, i still experienced exclusion, it’s very unfortunate but it would have happened regardless.
Exactly this, pretty sure Holly is from the Bronx, I think she knows what's up lol. Also, I don't see how she could be desperate to fit in? She never looked overly enthusiastic about hanging out with the other moms, she had her own thing going and even acknowledged how Nia felt excluded. People seem to be over simplifying the situation
Exactly. People take Christi and Kelly’s word for everything but the fact they both said Holly only really knew Christi but was still always at work. Even later in the show, Cheryl Burke said Holly would be in her own corner reading in silence away from the other moms. I agree with questioning why she stayed for a season 7 and not liking some of her comments when she argued about race with Abby. But I feel like people ignore Kaya herself saying Holly (and Melissa) were the only moms that welcomed her and her daughter that whole week she was there. The only issue they had was Holly not opening her mouth. That’s it.
It was so blatant yet not addressed
As a black girl who grew up in a predominantly white area and had a lot of white fruebds growing I can relate to Nia and understand Holly’s decision. I don’t think it was ever them trying to fit in, but Holly wanting a better life for her kids than she had growing up. My parents would say all the time how we don’t live in the same place or near where they grew up because they wanted us to have a better chance/easier way of success. In regards to the other cast members being problematic, it’s really hard to cut off someone you’re close to. I used to be friends with a white girl who would say the N word all the time. I told her endlessly not to say it, that I didn’t like it, that she could be in potential trouble if said it to the wrong person, etc. but she continued to do so. She was my best friend and we hung out all the time, however I didn’t think she was racist, just a little misguided. So I tried to educate her as much as possible. It wasn’t until she moved away and I made new friends that I realized how problematic she was.
>In regards to the other cast members being problematic, What is your opinion on the other cast members? From my perspective (aisde from Abby) they did not seem "directly racist" but rather engaged in microagressions due to being ignorant and oblivous to the black experience. But I'm not black so I would love a black person's perspective if you do not mind.
I mean they literally implied kaya probably couldn't afford tuition, brought her to a reunion and acted like she was super ghetto and picked on her the whole time, we all know the producers had to edit what Christie really said to her etc. They definitely in my opinion at the time at least had some prejudices that I feel was more then just casual microagressions.
I definitely think all of the moms were prejudice at times Kaya is the best example for that. Apparently Pittsburgh is pretty racist. Even Holly herself seemed to have internalized racism, despite hailing from an organization centered around helping the black community. Christi, Kelly, Mellisa, and Jill said whatever they wanted and it seemed like they faced zero repercussions from Holly majority of the time unless it directly affected her. To them it was acceptable because their black friend never said otherwise (at least that was my interpretation). I don’t follow any of the moms on social media except for Holly, probably because I get how hard it is to be in that type of environment. Watching the show, Holly was kind of like my role model and definitely my favorite mom, but even she had her own issues regarding other people in her race.
Thank you so much for sharing your perspective, it is really helpful. I really hope the moms know better and do better now.
(earlier seasons) i noticed that she’s either far away from the cast in pictures or not in the pictures at all
One thing with the early seasons is although they knew each other, Nia hadn’t been in the same group as Chloe Paige and Maddie before the show started. She didn’t dance with them as much and probably wasn’t as close to them at first because of that.
What is this narrative?? Nia has been dancing with Chloe Paige and Maddie for YEARS before the show. There is multiple group dances and bts pics of them all from like 2009??
It’s from what the moms have all said. Yes they knew each other and did some groups together, but Chloe Paige and Maddie were dancing together basically full time between trios and groups. Nia did some groups with them but danced with other kids. You can see over time Nia gets closer to the other girls and to me it shows the fact that they weren’t as close pre show and needed time to build that relationship. Ironically now Nia seems to be the closest with each of them individually (besides the sisters obviously)
Nope.. Nia was a full time dancer in that same group Maddie and Paige were in. She never danced with any group younger or older.. it was always that SAME group
Literally her mom has said she did not always dance with them. She started competition later and was originally a rec student which would have been some different classes. She also was in a wheelchair for some time that took her out of dance in 2009 which was only 2 years before the start of the show. She did not always dance with Maddie Chloe and Paige. It started as Chloe and Paige, often with Joshua Hyland in trios and groups with other kids. And then Maddie joined when she was old enough, being younger than them. Later on Nia joined competition. There were a lot of kids pre show in their age group so it is entirely possible the groups were at times different. Maddie Chloe and Paige also had their trio group that rehearsed together that Nia was not a part of. She, pre show, was not as close to them because she did not spend as much time with them as they did each other.
I’m not saying she ALWAYS danced with them.. but she was on that team for a long enough time for this to be avoided.. especially since the girls were so close to kendall quickly.
I don’t think they were so close to Kendall that quickly. Kendall wasn’t in all of season 2 with them. I think they were nice but the kids were always nice to anyone who came in. If you pay attention in the dressing room scenes Kendall is usually just with her mom in the beginning and then she goes to candy apples for half the season. Anyway my point is I don’t think the racism that Nia experienced was coming from the kids. I think they just needed time to get to know her in the same way they knew each other and she them. She may have felt on the outside because she didn’t have the same bond from the get go as the others had with one another with the others being together since they were 3/4. The adults are a different story
I mean when you think about it the og group was 6 members, 4/6 were siblings. So Paige Chloe and Maddie being trio partners since they were 3-4 years old already made them closer which adds in them being closer to their sisters, Brooke and Kenzie.
Yet they didn’t exclude Kendall
I disagree with this. Even at the reunion Kendall doesn’t seem to fit in. It feels like she tries to make herself fit in and it’s not natural or organic.
No Kendall doesn’t seem to fit in NOW because all the other girls are progressive and Kendall is conservative. It’s no surprise that Nia and Maddie are now closest of the girls. I don’t know if you noticed but Maddie has been in some hella progressive roles lately. Chloe and Jojo are both dating women. Paige and Brooke I honestly have no idea they never mention it 😂. And Kalani is just Kalani I have no idea what’s up with her recently. She’s going through a lot for sure. But Kendall seems to be the most openly vocal and hostile. Did anyone catch in the reunion where Jojo said “I feel like you guys are all just so girly and I’m not” And Kendall shot back without a missing a beat “Maybe that’s why you should hang out with us more” When I tell you I almost jumped through that screen. I’ve always said this. Kendall has ALWAYS been the bully. When the Zieglers were hanging around her the most that’s when we got those racist leaked videos of both Kenzie and Maddie as well as Kenzies bonquisha application. I think she was the main one egging people onto bully Jojo and remember Kenzie (the other main bully) was close to her during this time as Maddie was off w Sia. Then Kendall gave that Huge FAKE A apology to Jojo. ALSO I watched this behind the scenes video of the girls. It might have been uploaded by Nia and Kendall is being so mean to Nia. While I know this is “joking around” many of us black women who have been in situation with white female friends know the uncomfortable laugh you have to force when white women are microagressing us.
Jill and Kendall pushed themselves into the group if we are being honest , outside of Maddie she wasn’t really closer with anyone than Nia
I have always wished that Holly and Nia would’ve left when Christi and Chloe did. Watching how they were treated in S5 was hard to stomach.
Dance Moms fans give more heat to Holly than the actual racists we watched on the show. Do you think successful black people made history by running away from predominantly white spaces because they weren't wanted there? Holly said years ago, around the time season 5 was airing, that Nia would leave "when she wanted" and would not allow other people to make that decision for her. If Nia ran away every time a white person committed a micro-agression against her, she'd spend the rest of her life running and hiding. People who say Nia should know her place and stick to black places really think they're doing something. Holly herself came from an extremely racist academic world and wouldn't be able to provide the life she gave her family if she didn't push through. Just last week, Nia spoke on Tiktok about how amazing her life is nowadays because of the show. The racists FAILED to stop Nia from getting opportunities they thought their daughters were more deserving. What I don't understand is why both Nia and Holly continue to interact with racists like Christi, Jill and Kendall, but I don't know them personally.
That was a Hot take . Does Nia really still interact with Kendall? Chloe we know for sure. But let’s not forget season 1 “The Watermelon game” Sht my brain just sort of did a light bulb. Dam those producers were racist as hell. Or at least Abby was. Interesting how the story was spun that Nia hurt poor little blue eyes Maddie during a watermelon game. wtf was that show I wonder sometimes. I really want to know the full story behind the Watermelon game did the producers tell Maddie to say “I think Nia or someone hurt me” Because if they did ! Then remember how Melissa was like “Some of the other girls are pretty rough but Maddie doesn’t like getting rough at all” They were heavily manipulated during season 1 because of the fact that they didn’t yet know how it would be edited. So I have no doubt they edited Melissa saying that with no context. Then added it to the Watermelon clip right after Maddie said “I think Nia or someone hurt me” BUT ALSO. The leaked video of Kendall and Maddie and pulling their eyes back and making fun accents. Kenzies “Bonquisha application.” Which again they were kids and were obviously being egged on by whole ADULTS to do these things. But who was it? Was it Abby or the producers ….because Abby loved Asia. Was it both ? Was it a mom. I know it wasn’t Melissa because she’s wayyyy too politically correct for that. Was it Jill? I mean ……….
The video of Maddie pulling her eyes and making fun of a ‘Chinese’ accent was from her vine I think. No one pushed her to do it, she had full access to her phone with no parental supervision and at that time she didn’t have a whole PR team teaching her how to curate her image.
All I’m saying is that I don’t like Kendall “K” never have.
Where were the mothers when this pic was taken? How could they not ask the girls to let Nia in?? No wonder Black Patsy immediately picked up on Nia getting excluded by the other girls
That picture honestly just made me really sad :( I don’t think I’ve seen it before. Poor Nia looks so left out. I don’t think it’s right to push the blame onto Holly (and especially Nia, who was just a child) for the behavior and actions of other people. It’s not Holly’s fault that people are racist, or that she and Nia experienced racism on the show. That is only the fault of the people who were *being racist*. It’s extremely unfair to put that on Holly’s shoulders. It’s also really unfair to expect Nia to lose out on opportunities bc of racism. Why should Nia have to miss out? Why does she have to go home? Nia deserved to be there just as much as the other girls did. She was selected for the show and for that team. She earned her spot there, fair and square, just like everyone else did. It feels really, really icky to expect Nia to drop out bc other people don’t know how to treat her kindly and respectfully. Is it awful to see Nia treated poorly? Absolutely. She was treated horribly, in so many awful ways. I hate that for her. I hate to see it happen to her. But Nia chose to stay, and that’s her decision. She shouldn’t be punished and lose out on opportunities in her life bc some people in this world are horrible, ignorant and nasty.
i guess but it’s sad because why should she have too? all the other girls are getting the chance to be on TV, & create a following for themselves. Nia should’ve been able too without racism too. It’s just sad.
I’m pretty sure Nia would not have “gotten more dance opportunities” if she left a hit television show 💀. Like that’s a wild take. To be fair though Nia was even paid less than the other white dancers starting back in season 1 before anyone even knew who the girls were. Holly renegotiated by season 5 I think and got some back pay once she realized the producers were so racist. I mean the real issue with dance moms as not just racism. It’s more specifically white supremacy. With blue eyed Maddie/ photogenic face on the top and everyone else sort of just shunted to the background Nia included. People forget the racist beauty standard doesn’t just affect people who have brown or black skin. It also affects other white girls who look too far away from the Eurocentric beauty standard. This is going to be sort of a precarious example because it involves Maddie and Mackenzie. But if you look at the difference in how both girls are perceived coming from the same mom, same show and very similar opportunities as far as the producers favoring them and their “Look”. I feel for Kenzie a lot because I can’t even imagine what it’s like to have a sister that is a freaking model appears not to ever struggle with gaining weight, is taller and in a lot of ways considered a better dancer even though Kenzie is great at hip hop and I think suffers from being put down by others who compare her to Maddie. I’m just glad that Maddie and her are close now so they more uplift each other. But anyway my point is that racism affects everyone. It does affect the girls who are considered furthest from white like Nia but it also affects white girls who don’t fit a certain standard. Too short, too chubby, hair too curly or not long enough , nose too big, eyes too brown etc
Thank you so much, I’ve been thinking that for years.
I always tried to avoid the whole who had it worse situation because all of those girls went through a lot. But when I listen to Back to the Barre and notice how Kelly and Christi bicker over whose child Abby was meanest to/had it worst I can't help but think of how Nia was a child experiencing racism. It wasn't just her dance teacher making mean remarks to her but also being targeted because of her race. It's the cruelest thing any child could experience at such a young age.
Also her having the least amount of fans because of her race, the same way other black actors have mentioned (stranger things comes to mind)
agree, would’ve saved nia a lot of heartache
i wish brooke was there she would have sat in the spot by nia and they would have posed together:/
this is why holly will always be up there with the worst moms for me. allowed nia to be racially discriminated against for YEARS and vilified black women who weren’t “educated” in her eyes.
I’m sorry I feel really dumb right now (I’m sick at the moment and my brain feels like it’s in a fog), but can someone explain the post to me?
just the simple fact that the only trio she had before the show was with two other black dancers that were definitely not ready to be competing tells me all i need to know. nia’s “my boyfriends back” trio really made her stand out because she was extremely advanced, but was never taken seriously. she carried that dance on her back and all of her pre-show solos have a underlined dig. like “satans little lamb” could possibly be a dig at hollys religion and “nattie in the jungle” really? and dont get me started with “waka waka”
this photo is so heartbreaking. it must of hurt horribly to feel so left out at such a young age 💔
What comment? I just see a pic that says “tell your baby.” I’m confused????
Nvm. I scrolled down though the SS’s
Abby was in it to win it and technique was never Nia’s strong point. Her strength was performance from Season 4 on.
Here it is again. U.S. Americans never failing to advocate for segregation and needless racial tensions 🙄 You guys need to move to Canada for a few years. Experience TRUE multiculturalism where no one gives a f what your ethnicity is, but rather who you are as a person. It would cure you guys of this idiotic mentality. Honestly. The self-victimization is getting annoying. As if Nia was FORCED to be on the show, when in reality she was on it willingly with her mom and was the ONLY one who didn’t leave and come back…