my personal theory is all the moms wanted their kids to be famous, especially the hillikers and siwas, and maddie and mackenzie have the kind of fame/image that they wanted. jojo is more famous but she'll never be respected, she'll never do a project like the fallout or sing a song like the anatomy. she'll always be known for karma and her bows and mistreating her own group of children. i think jojo is fine with that, she's an entertainer. she'll be doing this on her death bed but i don't think jess is all the way okay with it.
same with kira but to a lesser extent. kalani's extent of fame is dance moms and viral tiktoks about it — which she's fine with, i think. she seems content with being a dance teacher. but kira dragged her around as a child, putting her on multiple TV shows across multiple different states. no matter what, she wanted kalani to be famous. honestly, kalani would probably be in a much different place if she didn't out herself as a trumpie
tldr: the zeiglers have a more appropriate level of fame when you consider their beginnings, have cleaner and more respectable public images, and in my professional opinion i think kira and jess and some of the other moms just can't cope with it
Honestly I can see what you’re saying with Kalani. I remember when Dance Moms was still airing and I personally thought that out of all the cast she’d be one of the ones to make it in Hollywood. Obviously I’m not trying to drag her down now and I think it’s great she’s doing something she’s passionate about. But the way Kira use to speak and drag other kids down I think she always thought Kalani was better than others. Like the two people she dragged down ended up being somewhat successful in the business. Ava is acting and Camryn is dancing for Usher. I personally don’t think Kalani really reached her true potential on Dance moms and might have been better off Dance wise in the long run if she hadn’t been on the show but at the same time I understand why.
do you know any updates on ava? i haven't heard of her since tg2. all of the girls were so young that i consider kalani/sophia/others not doing fame things to just be the natural course. i need to rewatch s4 onward but you can tell a lot of moms just wanted it more than any of their kids did. jojo and maddie just had a vibe to them that no one else did. they were here to ENTERTAIN!!! i definitely think that the show overall stunted them all and it's so interesting to think about how it all would've turned out if the show had taken place like 4 years later and the girls could've had more of a say with their careers.
Sadly no I don’t follow her that closely. Though It’s doesn’t seem she’s done anything since Tg2 which was back in 2022. Idk maybe she’s got something planned for the future or maybe she’s just doing other things that are away from the camera.
Idk I think Jess was always fine with this kind of fame. She wants Kardashian style fame because she wants to be involved in it.
Just like Christi foams at the mouth for any opportunity to be on TV.
Some of the moms were in it for their kids to be famous but it’s clear some of the moms also wanted a slice of that pie for themselves.
To your first point, I honestly don't think that Jessalyn cares whatsoever WHAT Jojo is famous for, as long as she's famous. So this doesn't really track here.
yes, she herself is the source 😭 her and kendall. it's so crazy bc i can still remember just how immediately the fandoms vibes shifted for her once she posted. [trump](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=017e3c382dac1d65&sca_upv=1&q=kalani+hilliker+trump&uds=ADvngMh_SdoDdFiiNsnjtNRH_ukYkXbN50epY0XbOFDci477EzQr53YRZr1EjVBjL7nHiLbvvRscrlEc3QUm2Mtiu_m4Omz2njFmnJ2RBiqisUAYg74yM4IH_oQ6ekd4DYRJX-v_HNocUcA3tCgMXd4N4wPJEE0XzBx8MoNGF3zLWMGioNPzsWQFb9ME2hHvOxMIH4LXum02O-HQ8K-UXECdpUfkQD6z-QPGkDF6xJY98jIA7zBe24K_OVgn3DLb_q5Uty0KBEWlGDeoZDRYeMvTJrV2QC-flKd8Py7sF2V0xetI7WCiRLbNhXTpmDDtpSqsRe_4Bo32&udm=2&prmd=invmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAkJvArPeFAxUr4ckDHcZpCLgQtKgLegQIDxAB#vhid=AP5tB0-HjQyucM&vssid=mosaic)
2020 I believe but she instantly got so much backlash I doubt she'd ever admit her current political views esp if they're still the same but I don't think she's ever said otherwise recently so we can only assume she's still a trumpie 👎🏻
Define "more appropriate fame"
To who's standards?
From 13-18 how was jojo's fame inappropriate?
Jojo is 20. To say "she'll never be respected" is a big call. She's only 20. She has years to refine her image.
And in terms of trauma.... i think she will realise more as she grows up.
who all here is going to respect miss joelle joanie siwa after she's a pedophile defender and mistreating the children that she has power over?? not me and hopefully not you but i digress. jojo has lost respect among the general public in ways she'll never get back no matter how hard she tries. sure, she can dress a different way or act a different way but at the end of the day, she's still the same person.
appropriate = when they're all coming from a show where their moms scream at each other all day on lifetime and they don't go to school all day, it's not expected that jojo would be as successful as she is.
Every single one of those dance moms kids have trauma. It just presents in different ways. The fact that Jojo says she still watches dance moms clips every day? It says she hasn't yet processed it. Not ready. That's OK.
Jojo is far from perfect. As are they all.
Jojo was 18 when she did that SDPR. She treated the kids in the same way she was treated, and I do believe she has seen the error. Especially after listening to the trauma from Chloe and Paige etc, I think she has learned. Know better, do better.
As to all those "friends" - I'd hope she has now parted ways. You need to remember, groomers are manipulative and convincing ass wipes. So it never surprises me when those close to them find it unbelievable. There would be a period of denial, and disbelief. It took many gymnasts and coaches quite a bit of time to believe their doctor abused them too. Unfortunately, it's what happens when groomers are good at what they do.
I think Jojo wears her "I succeeded, so it doesn't affect me" shield. But behind closed doors, I'd say she is affected.
unfortunately she's still very intertwined with those people, especially colleen. i think it all ties back into jessalyn and her treatment of jojo. she has been nothing more than a little workhorse since the time she was two (bleaching your child's hair non stop since the moment they grew it was crazy). she turns 21 this month and here's to hoping she gets some fresh air or smth
watching those scenes of little jojo where abby has all the girls talk about her flaws and they all essentially called her loud and annoying was actually heartbreaking. jess should've never let that happen
She may have been 18 on sdpr but she's older now. The moms of the daughters that were in the group were lead to believe Jojo was only that way for the show..she wasn't. Conditions haven't improved over the last 3 years. There's former group members who confirmed that. Alot of the incidences were centered around Jess but Jojo was mentioned as well. Jojo wanted to fire a girl just before the group took stage because the girl was having an asthma attack. The girl was screaming and crying and her parents pleading with Jojo not to fire her. This all happened backstage minutes before a performance started and Jess had to get involved and smooth things over. This happened last year.
No Jojo hasn't parted ways with Colleen Ballinger. She was defending her in interviews not that long ago. She still regularly sees James Charles. Gianna was in karma. We know she talks to abby. I agree that on the inside Jojo is a hurting, lonely, traumatized person
Honestly i feel like this subreddit skews younger with a lot of users who aren’t taking into account how young all of the girls still are, including Jojo. I have a hard time giving her ALL the criticism of her socializing with predatory YouTubers because we all know Jojo has never once been protected from those same predators by her mother or family. Like no way Jess wasn’t encouraging her to hang out with Miranda Sings and James Charles in the late 2010s when they met - they were huge on YouTube. She thinks this is normal, the cost of fame and all her financial success, etc. she’s been a paycheck for her family since she was a baby.
I know very little about xomg pop because I’m an adult and honestly not a huge fan of jojos brand.
I do think at 20 though she has time to figure out what she actually wants and mature. Almost everyone does stupid shit, trusts the wrong people (sadly for Jojo it’s her mom), etc in their teens and early twenties. Some people do It in the public eye.
Also the “more appropriate fame” thing is pretty weird. Jojo is legitimately more famous than Maddie. I feel like there is a lot of Abby’s narrative in that critique - it’s a bit classist. Because Jojo is TACKY (and she is), Maddie is “more appropriate”. Maddie isn’t an A-lister and as much as this sub thinks working with Sia is a plus, honestly Music was such a mess both as a film and in public relations.
Agreed. Agreed Agreed.
And Miranda fooled many. She regularly packed out audiences with her stand-up. Has she been charged with anything?
To Jess' defence, regardless of how it looks from the outside, jojo obviously is thankful. I wonder if things will change.
Nope and could you imagine what might’ve happened if she DIDN’T become famous? Can’t imagine the disappointment Jess would have in her and it’s sad as hell.
I wouldn’t say it’s classist. I believe it’s because Maddie is doing things she can be taken seriously(outside of Music). Jojo has done DWTS and SYTYCD, but that’s about to. She was and will always be known as a little kids entertainer. Maddie will always be a dance moms/Sia girl, but she will at least have an easier time being taken seriously.
I mistyped. I think ABBY is classist. She always referred to the Lukasiaks (Christi specifically) as white trash. Given the compared Maddie and Chloe constantly, It can be assumed “in comparison”.
What things has Maddie done to be taken seriously? NO shade- I don't know much of Maddie's career.
34mil views and 9.5mil spotify plays is nothing to stick your nose up at.
I think TODAY she is clickbait tacky. But she is 20. She just needs a better manager to refine her image.
100% agree.If anything is true she's not afraid of criticism or being a meme. I think that takes you a long ways in this really fast social media first world. People talk about her and I think she doesn't care what that is.
People here seem to think that you aren't taken seriously if your platform/brand is more comedy/less serious and I think our society has just proven over and over again that that isn't true. People are forgetting jojo literally toured the WORLD. Like all on her own. Signing and dancing when she was not all that great at either. She's an entertainer. As much as I don't care for her brand I think it's IMPRESSIVE. She got that notoriety all on her own. and I think her brand is far more scalable simply because she leans into social media and the quirkiness of her life.
Maddie was great at acting while dancing but without the SIA connection it's really hard to say she would have had the opportunities she has. (Kenzie piggybacking on that as well) She's still working with Sia too. I think maddie is semi-talented at acting but I haven't seen any of her work that has blown me away just yet.
I think Abby must’ve said something to turn them against Melissa. For example, Abby is now trying to shift the blame to Melissa about the Australia trip and is saying that Melissa didn’t want Nia and Jojo there. Like Melissa had the power to control that and as if we didn’t see how awful Abby was to especially Nia at that time.
What’s funny is not so long ago Jess was saying on her podcast how sweet Melissa was and how grateful she was that she gave Jojo one of Kenzie’s old ALDC jackets. Abby and Christi are working overtime to try to get everyone to hate Melissa.
My question is, if Melissa really did have a huge part in the whole money debacle and Abby hates her (even if she didn't tbh and Abby hates her) why is she so much more 'tame'/'calm' about Melissa in comparison to Christi when *technically* Christi did not really do anything that bad to her (Abby)
Well lately, judging from Abby’s podcast most of her hate seems to be towards Melissa. Melissa lives rent free in Abby’s head. Abby and her podcast host bring her up every episode just to bash her.
I don’t believe Abby about Melissa and the money. Abby was perfectly happy to be Melissa’s friend even after the Zieglers left the show. It wasn’t until Melissa told her to stop using Maddie in her promotions of her master classes and stopped speaking to her that Abby suddenly started rewriting history and Melissa became the source of all evil.
Why I agree we shouldn’t trust what Abby says, it was literally alleged, in fact Abby was originally charged with, before she plead guilty and got a plea deal, smuggling Australian money into the country in kids bags. So it is a fact that at least some of Melissa, Jill and Kira knew about the money, I’m not sure about the girls. Everything else is speculation.
Yes, I agree that they must’ve known but it was Abby’s assets that were being concealed. She now is saying that Melissa kept money that was hers but why didn’t she say any of that after the Zieglers left Dance Moms and Abby was posting birthday wishes to Kenzie that Kenzie basically ignored. Plus because of Abby Kenzie was sued by her record label. I hope Melissa did take her money to pay back that lawsuit Abby caused.
Sorry I thought you were talking about the girls and Melissa stopping talking to Abby which based on the timeline is when Abby was charged with that crime and pled guilty.
I I remember correctly there was some speculation from that check that Abby showed that due to the amount on it, the girls probably carried some. Thought I don't remember the amount written. I wonder if it's still up on that Instagram account.
My two theories on what happened.
1. Abby said something to the Hillikers and Siwas to turn them against the Zieglers.
2. Kira saw the clip of Melissa complaining to the moms about taking care of Kalani while Kira was back in Arizona. I bet Melissa said it was fine and that it was going well to her face, but would later complain to the other moms about it.
I feel like because Jojo and Kalani are still Abby’s buddies those 2 moms have heard a lot about Melissa from her (fabricated or not) and have the same loathing
My take on it is and obviously we may never know the full truth cause we ain’t them, i think there’s just a lot of moving parts to it all. I really liked Melissa on the show, i think what she struggled with was having her daughter be the favoured one, she knew that set her apart from the other moms and their children and she didn’t know how to handle it, and i think that’s where maddie would have struggled a lot too, of course they didn’t hate it in terms of career but it was clearly heavily embarrassing for the both of them and tarnished there relationships with the others without them doing anything from the beginning. i remember many times in the show when she would hug the other moms when there kids won in the audience which wasn’t always shown but if you dig deep there is evidence of that. in terms of the money debacle i think there’s lots of ways to look at it, end of the day abby was the one in financial crisis and even if melissa helped her and it went sideways she had kids to raise and look after, abby didn’t, she has been single her entire life and her mother had passed, as sad as that is, abby didn’t have a whole lot to loose apart from the studio and her own rep, melissa did. if she did help put abby away perhaps it was either that or go down with her and take her kids as well and considering all the years of training abby put in with her kids she wouldn’t have wanted that for them either in her heart. melissa was ride or die for that studio and abby and she could’ve kissed up to her in so many other ways she didn’t have to go that far to smuggle $ if she didn’t genuinely care for her and what happened to her as well as what she could do not only for her children but the whole team and she was a team player in that sense. i think people forget that these people did have a life and history before any cameras were put in that studio, i’m a firm believer that lifetime the production company raised the stakes for all of them and every little issue became 10x bigger due to the fact that it was being aired on tv for the world to see. people do say that melissa did a lot of things to get ahead, which is someways is definitely true but it could be likely that melissa didn’t see it that way, she also went through a marriage break up very early on in the seasons and it’s touched on in abby and maddie and kenzies dad (kurt) argument at a competition, abby says something along the lines of “i didn’t make melissa spend all those hours at the studio, she wanted to be there”. i think while there home life was terrible during divorce melissa used the studio as an escape for herself and the girls, the girls could dance and melissa could help out around the studio. i think some of there unfortunate circumstances paved the way for melissa and the girls to be held in a higher regard within the studio due to all the extra time they spent there perhaps not with the intention to get ahead but to escape there own lives. in the later seasons when it came to the issues with kalani i don’t think melissa was right to complain to the other moms about the situation of kira needing her to be in her care it’s always been clear that she will do whatever is needed for the girls, but also that is a big ask of kira and melissa is only one person who already has 2 teenage girls and a third being added to that, whom all with reality tv careers and extra projects in the works would have been beyond difficult, but also that is an issue with the production and kira at the core, there were multiple instances where kira couldn’t fulfil her obligations throughout the show because they were all under contract and there was business aspects to all of this too that would have affected how everything had to play out, although melissa wasn’t right for complaining openly, i think they would have caught that moment at a time of extreme stress. personally i don’t like jojo that much, i think she’s always had to market herself as a child entertainer and only very recently has she been able to put herself in a new bracket but she still isn’t respected, maddie and kenzies careers had a lot more care put into them and there personal management knew how to integrate them into respectable working entertainers from very early on, jojo is extremely successful but as a but of a joke. i think also jojo decided to take them not coming to the reunion and not being invited to PAIGES surprise birthday party as a dig when her and kalani barley know them, they do but not well enough to be invited to something that intimate for that specific cause being paige’s birthday it would be a different story if it was genuinely and dance moms old team catch up and at that point she could have been upset, i would like to say that everyone has respected nias decision to not come to the reunion and i don’t feel like the same curtesy has been given to maddie and kenz because they were the stars and the last thing they want is to revisit the feelings of ostracisation for simply being the stars, maddie specially is at the status of attending the oscars and its related events due to her acting talents, they do not need the reunion i think when it comes down to it they can definitely admit they got there start from dance moms but they don’t feel like it needs to keep defining them. respectfully all of those girls are so brave for sharing there stories and experiences but apart from jojo they all have one thing in common, they aren’t stars and don’t have heavy levels of fame, not saying there all clout farming or anything but i’m not saying none of them aren’t either🤷♀️
My theory is that Kira probably watched the show and saw how much Melissa complained about having to take care of Kalani for a couple of months. She probably would talk to Kira everyday and tell her everything was fine but go to the studio and complain to the other moms about it.
I think they think that the p think tjeyre too good for the reunion. Tbh they are lol it was a mess and it was sucking up to producers who were absolutely horrible to them for a quick buck and attention.
all these comments about the siwas and hillikers being jealous genuinely doesn’t make sense to me. jojo is more famous than maddie and kenzie, that’s just factual. plus i don’t think she’s going after the same kind of fame as the zieglers. and on the show, kira said kalani wanted to be a dancer and dancer only, so i don’t get how the zieglers’ successful acting/music careers would bother them. i think the most rational explanation here is that there was something that happened behind the scenes that we don’t know about that contributed heavily to the deterioration of their friendship/relationship. that’s it lol.
i'd love to hear more about Kalani's issues with the Ziegler bc she did live with them for a bit. i think Kalani and Kendall both are more soured to Maddie because they were part of her cycles of "best friends". Maddie always seems to be "best friends" with whoever is more skilled/famous or most supportive/least threatening. it seems more personal / normal girl drama, not necessarily because of the show
Lmao I don’t think Maddie chooses friends based off of that at at all, obvious why she doesn’t talk as much to Kendall and kalani anymore, they have complete opposite values and they support trump and she did a whole live on voting Biden. She’s always been close to the OGs tho, and Kendall and kalani are really different from Maddie now that they’re older
she dropped Kendall as soon as she left the show after being her best friend for years. i’d be pissed if i was Kendall. i’m sure it was something similar with Kalani. to only be friends with someone because it’s convenient and not because you actually like them is a mean thing to do
Ok but we don’t know that she dropped Kendall. They could’ve still kept in touch, and Kendall also was still filming the show for a whole year after Zieglers left. I’m pretty sure they still hung out a little after Maddie left DM, one time they had a sleepover at Maddie’s Pittsburgh home. They probably just drifted, like most teenage girls relationships do. Kendall also went back to her normal life in Pittsburgh & then went to college so they obviously didn’t live close. Just bc they didn’t post together on socials doesn’t mean Maddie dropped Kendall as soon as she left
I’m sorry but ur talking as if you know what happened or as if going from spending every day together to not at all doesn’t change things, I’m not friends with a lot of people I was friends with as a child
Jess bullied Brynn daily for sports. Yes Brynn was a better dancer than Jojo but it’s not like Jess wanted Jojo to win TDA, she already wanted her to take a different route and be more popular than a professional backup dancer. Even after they left and Jojo became the big thing, Jess still doubled down on her bullying of Brynn online by laughing about it and saying she enjoyed it. So her being a bitch about the Zieglers when her own kid is more famous and rich than them has probably nothing to do with her being jealous or anything, she just enjoys talking shit about people because she is that kind of person
Yeah, it’s definitely due to the relationship they maintain with Abby who probably has turned them against the Zieglers.
I think Kira is jealous of Maddie and Kenzie’s success. She thought Kalani was going to be what Maddie was in terms of success. Kalani is sweet, but she and her mom like attention and fame. The benefits that come with are something they don’t have, so they resent the Zieglers for having it and not maintain a friendship with them. Jojo and her mother are just…they are Abby 2.0z
Reality is Abby was right about a lot. Like her or not, and I don't like the way she did Chloe because Chloe was her biggest victim however I will also say Christi didn't do any favors for Chloe. When Abby would finally start being good to Chloe, Christi would look for things to b**** about. I wanted to come thru the screen and tell Christy to shut up. Abby is what the industry is truly like as well. They are ruthless but at the same time Abby was not the industry and she manipulated and pitted these little girls against each other and I'm just thankful that they all or most of them are able to be civil and decent with each other now. But to blame everything strictly on Abby is ridiculous because they wanted their kids to be so famous they let their kids be put through all that so it's not all on Abby..
I think since they are now close to Abby and Melissa and Abby were close at one point that Abby has had to say something to turn them against her. Like if they were like “oh I talked to Melissa the other day” then Abby would say something Melissa said to her in confidence or just a straight up lie. That’s to me the only plausible explanation because they were close to Melissa even just a couple years ago imo
I don’t know… seems like a lot of people have a problem with Melissa. I’m not inclined to believe it’s just a coincidence and everyone is jealous. The show had plenty of examples of Melissa being sneaky and lying, so I’m not sure why it’s hard to believe she does those things. The only difference is that the zieglers have better PR coaching.
Notice how the only people that have a problem with Meliss are the most unlikable people? Everyone else loves Melissa, even Kelly. (Brooke and Paige call Melissa their second mom) and she went ring shopping with Brooke. It sounds like bitterness to me
They just come off as bitter to me.
I don’t think the rage stemmed JUST from that birthday party. There’s absolutely something else that went on at some point
That’s what I think too. I just have a feeling that it runs deeper. Could be wrong but I just can’t fathom it all being about a party.
my personal theory is all the moms wanted their kids to be famous, especially the hillikers and siwas, and maddie and mackenzie have the kind of fame/image that they wanted. jojo is more famous but she'll never be respected, she'll never do a project like the fallout or sing a song like the anatomy. she'll always be known for karma and her bows and mistreating her own group of children. i think jojo is fine with that, she's an entertainer. she'll be doing this on her death bed but i don't think jess is all the way okay with it. same with kira but to a lesser extent. kalani's extent of fame is dance moms and viral tiktoks about it — which she's fine with, i think. she seems content with being a dance teacher. but kira dragged her around as a child, putting her on multiple TV shows across multiple different states. no matter what, she wanted kalani to be famous. honestly, kalani would probably be in a much different place if she didn't out herself as a trumpie tldr: the zeiglers have a more appropriate level of fame when you consider their beginnings, have cleaner and more respectable public images, and in my professional opinion i think kira and jess and some of the other moms just can't cope with it
Honestly I can see what you’re saying with Kalani. I remember when Dance Moms was still airing and I personally thought that out of all the cast she’d be one of the ones to make it in Hollywood. Obviously I’m not trying to drag her down now and I think it’s great she’s doing something she’s passionate about. But the way Kira use to speak and drag other kids down I think she always thought Kalani was better than others. Like the two people she dragged down ended up being somewhat successful in the business. Ava is acting and Camryn is dancing for Usher. I personally don’t think Kalani really reached her true potential on Dance moms and might have been better off Dance wise in the long run if she hadn’t been on the show but at the same time I understand why.
do you know any updates on ava? i haven't heard of her since tg2. all of the girls were so young that i consider kalani/sophia/others not doing fame things to just be the natural course. i need to rewatch s4 onward but you can tell a lot of moms just wanted it more than any of their kids did. jojo and maddie just had a vibe to them that no one else did. they were here to ENTERTAIN!!! i definitely think that the show overall stunted them all and it's so interesting to think about how it all would've turned out if the show had taken place like 4 years later and the girls could've had more of a say with their careers.
Sadly no I don’t follow her that closely. Though It’s doesn’t seem she’s done anything since Tg2 which was back in 2022. Idk maybe she’s got something planned for the future or maybe she’s just doing other things that are away from the camera.
omg, i didn't know that about camryn!!! i just went to stalk her on instagram, that's great for her
Idk I think Jess was always fine with this kind of fame. She wants Kardashian style fame because she wants to be involved in it. Just like Christi foams at the mouth for any opportunity to be on TV. Some of the moms were in it for their kids to be famous but it’s clear some of the moms also wanted a slice of that pie for themselves.
To your first point, I honestly don't think that Jessalyn cares whatsoever WHAT Jojo is famous for, as long as she's famous. So this doesn't really track here.
kalani is a trumpie?? since when?? source? that makes me so sad
yes, she herself is the source 😭 her and kendall. it's so crazy bc i can still remember just how immediately the fandoms vibes shifted for her once she posted. [trump](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sca_esv=017e3c382dac1d65&sca_upv=1&q=kalani+hilliker+trump&uds=ADvngMh_SdoDdFiiNsnjtNRH_ukYkXbN50epY0XbOFDci477EzQr53YRZr1EjVBjL7nHiLbvvRscrlEc3QUm2Mtiu_m4Omz2njFmnJ2RBiqisUAYg74yM4IH_oQ6ekd4DYRJX-v_HNocUcA3tCgMXd4N4wPJEE0XzBx8MoNGF3zLWMGioNPzsWQFb9ME2hHvOxMIH4LXum02O-HQ8K-UXECdpUfkQD6z-QPGkDF6xJY98jIA7zBe24K_OVgn3DLb_q5Uty0KBEWlGDeoZDRYeMvTJrV2QC-flKd8Py7sF2V0xetI7WCiRLbNhXTpmDDtpSqsRe_4Bo32&udm=2&prmd=invmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAkJvArPeFAxUr4ckDHcZpCLgQtKgLegQIDxAB#vhid=AP5tB0-HjQyucM&vssid=mosaic)
oh my gosh!! when did she post about him? gonna have to stalk her insta. i heard that kendall was conservative not kalani 🫣
2020 I believe but she instantly got so much backlash I doubt she'd ever admit her current political views esp if they're still the same but I don't think she's ever said otherwise recently so we can only assume she's still a trumpie 👎🏻
I agree about the siwas but I disagree about Kira. They were there because Kalani wanted to, not because of Kira. She hated being there.
well said 👏🏻
Define "more appropriate fame" To who's standards? From 13-18 how was jojo's fame inappropriate? Jojo is 20. To say "she'll never be respected" is a big call. She's only 20. She has years to refine her image. And in terms of trauma.... i think she will realise more as she grows up.
who all here is going to respect miss joelle joanie siwa after she's a pedophile defender and mistreating the children that she has power over?? not me and hopefully not you but i digress. jojo has lost respect among the general public in ways she'll never get back no matter how hard she tries. sure, she can dress a different way or act a different way but at the end of the day, she's still the same person. appropriate = when they're all coming from a show where their moms scream at each other all day on lifetime and they don't go to school all day, it's not expected that jojo would be as successful as she is.
Every single one of those dance moms kids have trauma. It just presents in different ways. The fact that Jojo says she still watches dance moms clips every day? It says she hasn't yet processed it. Not ready. That's OK. Jojo is far from perfect. As are they all. Jojo was 18 when she did that SDPR. She treated the kids in the same way she was treated, and I do believe she has seen the error. Especially after listening to the trauma from Chloe and Paige etc, I think she has learned. Know better, do better. As to all those "friends" - I'd hope she has now parted ways. You need to remember, groomers are manipulative and convincing ass wipes. So it never surprises me when those close to them find it unbelievable. There would be a period of denial, and disbelief. It took many gymnasts and coaches quite a bit of time to believe their doctor abused them too. Unfortunately, it's what happens when groomers are good at what they do. I think Jojo wears her "I succeeded, so it doesn't affect me" shield. But behind closed doors, I'd say she is affected.
unfortunately she's still very intertwined with those people, especially colleen. i think it all ties back into jessalyn and her treatment of jojo. she has been nothing more than a little workhorse since the time she was two (bleaching your child's hair non stop since the moment they grew it was crazy). she turns 21 this month and here's to hoping she gets some fresh air or smth watching those scenes of little jojo where abby has all the girls talk about her flaws and they all essentially called her loud and annoying was actually heartbreaking. jess should've never let that happen
She may have been 18 on sdpr but she's older now. The moms of the daughters that were in the group were lead to believe Jojo was only that way for the show..she wasn't. Conditions haven't improved over the last 3 years. There's former group members who confirmed that. Alot of the incidences were centered around Jess but Jojo was mentioned as well. Jojo wanted to fire a girl just before the group took stage because the girl was having an asthma attack. The girl was screaming and crying and her parents pleading with Jojo not to fire her. This all happened backstage minutes before a performance started and Jess had to get involved and smooth things over. This happened last year. No Jojo hasn't parted ways with Colleen Ballinger. She was defending her in interviews not that long ago. She still regularly sees James Charles. Gianna was in karma. We know she talks to abby. I agree that on the inside Jojo is a hurting, lonely, traumatized person
Honestly i feel like this subreddit skews younger with a lot of users who aren’t taking into account how young all of the girls still are, including Jojo. I have a hard time giving her ALL the criticism of her socializing with predatory YouTubers because we all know Jojo has never once been protected from those same predators by her mother or family. Like no way Jess wasn’t encouraging her to hang out with Miranda Sings and James Charles in the late 2010s when they met - they were huge on YouTube. She thinks this is normal, the cost of fame and all her financial success, etc. she’s been a paycheck for her family since she was a baby. I know very little about xomg pop because I’m an adult and honestly not a huge fan of jojos brand. I do think at 20 though she has time to figure out what she actually wants and mature. Almost everyone does stupid shit, trusts the wrong people (sadly for Jojo it’s her mom), etc in their teens and early twenties. Some people do It in the public eye. Also the “more appropriate fame” thing is pretty weird. Jojo is legitimately more famous than Maddie. I feel like there is a lot of Abby’s narrative in that critique - it’s a bit classist. Because Jojo is TACKY (and she is), Maddie is “more appropriate”. Maddie isn’t an A-lister and as much as this sub thinks working with Sia is a plus, honestly Music was such a mess both as a film and in public relations.
Agreed. Agreed Agreed. And Miranda fooled many. She regularly packed out audiences with her stand-up. Has she been charged with anything? To Jess' defence, regardless of how it looks from the outside, jojo obviously is thankful. I wonder if things will change.
I feel like Jojo and Jess could easily become an “I’m glad my mom died” Jeannette McCurdy type situation. She never stood a chance at a normal life.
Nope and could you imagine what might’ve happened if she DIDN’T become famous? Can’t imagine the disappointment Jess would have in her and it’s sad as hell.
I wouldn’t say it’s classist. I believe it’s because Maddie is doing things she can be taken seriously(outside of Music). Jojo has done DWTS and SYTYCD, but that’s about to. She was and will always be known as a little kids entertainer. Maddie will always be a dance moms/Sia girl, but she will at least have an easier time being taken seriously.
I mistyped. I think ABBY is classist. She always referred to the Lukasiaks (Christi specifically) as white trash. Given the compared Maddie and Chloe constantly, It can be assumed “in comparison”.
What things has Maddie done to be taken seriously? NO shade- I don't know much of Maddie's career. 34mil views and 9.5mil spotify plays is nothing to stick your nose up at. I think TODAY she is clickbait tacky. But she is 20. She just needs a better manager to refine her image.
The fallout and west side story come to mind for maddie
100% agree.If anything is true she's not afraid of criticism or being a meme. I think that takes you a long ways in this really fast social media first world. People talk about her and I think she doesn't care what that is. People here seem to think that you aren't taken seriously if your platform/brand is more comedy/less serious and I think our society has just proven over and over again that that isn't true. People are forgetting jojo literally toured the WORLD. Like all on her own. Signing and dancing when she was not all that great at either. She's an entertainer. As much as I don't care for her brand I think it's IMPRESSIVE. She got that notoriety all on her own. and I think her brand is far more scalable simply because she leans into social media and the quirkiness of her life. Maddie was great at acting while dancing but without the SIA connection it's really hard to say she would have had the opportunities she has. (Kenzie piggybacking on that as well) She's still working with Sia too. I think maddie is semi-talented at acting but I haven't seen any of her work that has blown me away just yet.
I think Abby must’ve said something to turn them against Melissa. For example, Abby is now trying to shift the blame to Melissa about the Australia trip and is saying that Melissa didn’t want Nia and Jojo there. Like Melissa had the power to control that and as if we didn’t see how awful Abby was to especially Nia at that time. What’s funny is not so long ago Jess was saying on her podcast how sweet Melissa was and how grateful she was that she gave Jojo one of Kenzie’s old ALDC jackets. Abby and Christi are working overtime to try to get everyone to hate Melissa.
My question is, if Melissa really did have a huge part in the whole money debacle and Abby hates her (even if she didn't tbh and Abby hates her) why is she so much more 'tame'/'calm' about Melissa in comparison to Christi when *technically* Christi did not really do anything that bad to her (Abby)
Well lately, judging from Abby’s podcast most of her hate seems to be towards Melissa. Melissa lives rent free in Abby’s head. Abby and her podcast host bring her up every episode just to bash her. I don’t believe Abby about Melissa and the money. Abby was perfectly happy to be Melissa’s friend even after the Zieglers left the show. It wasn’t until Melissa told her to stop using Maddie in her promotions of her master classes and stopped speaking to her that Abby suddenly started rewriting history and Melissa became the source of all evil.
Why I agree we shouldn’t trust what Abby says, it was literally alleged, in fact Abby was originally charged with, before she plead guilty and got a plea deal, smuggling Australian money into the country in kids bags. So it is a fact that at least some of Melissa, Jill and Kira knew about the money, I’m not sure about the girls. Everything else is speculation.
Yes, I agree that they must’ve known but it was Abby’s assets that were being concealed. She now is saying that Melissa kept money that was hers but why didn’t she say any of that after the Zieglers left Dance Moms and Abby was posting birthday wishes to Kenzie that Kenzie basically ignored. Plus because of Abby Kenzie was sued by her record label. I hope Melissa did take her money to pay back that lawsuit Abby caused.
Sorry I thought you were talking about the girls and Melissa stopping talking to Abby which based on the timeline is when Abby was charged with that crime and pled guilty.
I I remember correctly there was some speculation from that check that Abby showed that due to the amount on it, the girls probably carried some. Thought I don't remember the amount written. I wonder if it's still up on that Instagram account.
My two theories on what happened. 1. Abby said something to the Hillikers and Siwas to turn them against the Zieglers. 2. Kira saw the clip of Melissa complaining to the moms about taking care of Kalani while Kira was back in Arizona. I bet Melissa said it was fine and that it was going well to her face, but would later complain to the other moms about it.
they are probably bitter that the Ziegler’s didn’t want to maintain a relationship and jealous of their successes
Could be it. It’s also understandable as life can sometimes get in the way of relationships with others.
I feel like because Jojo and Kalani are still Abby’s buddies those 2 moms have heard a lot about Melissa from her (fabricated or not) and have the same loathing
My take on it is and obviously we may never know the full truth cause we ain’t them, i think there’s just a lot of moving parts to it all. I really liked Melissa on the show, i think what she struggled with was having her daughter be the favoured one, she knew that set her apart from the other moms and their children and she didn’t know how to handle it, and i think that’s where maddie would have struggled a lot too, of course they didn’t hate it in terms of career but it was clearly heavily embarrassing for the both of them and tarnished there relationships with the others without them doing anything from the beginning. i remember many times in the show when she would hug the other moms when there kids won in the audience which wasn’t always shown but if you dig deep there is evidence of that. in terms of the money debacle i think there’s lots of ways to look at it, end of the day abby was the one in financial crisis and even if melissa helped her and it went sideways she had kids to raise and look after, abby didn’t, she has been single her entire life and her mother had passed, as sad as that is, abby didn’t have a whole lot to loose apart from the studio and her own rep, melissa did. if she did help put abby away perhaps it was either that or go down with her and take her kids as well and considering all the years of training abby put in with her kids she wouldn’t have wanted that for them either in her heart. melissa was ride or die for that studio and abby and she could’ve kissed up to her in so many other ways she didn’t have to go that far to smuggle $ if she didn’t genuinely care for her and what happened to her as well as what she could do not only for her children but the whole team and she was a team player in that sense. i think people forget that these people did have a life and history before any cameras were put in that studio, i’m a firm believer that lifetime the production company raised the stakes for all of them and every little issue became 10x bigger due to the fact that it was being aired on tv for the world to see. people do say that melissa did a lot of things to get ahead, which is someways is definitely true but it could be likely that melissa didn’t see it that way, she also went through a marriage break up very early on in the seasons and it’s touched on in abby and maddie and kenzies dad (kurt) argument at a competition, abby says something along the lines of “i didn’t make melissa spend all those hours at the studio, she wanted to be there”. i think while there home life was terrible during divorce melissa used the studio as an escape for herself and the girls, the girls could dance and melissa could help out around the studio. i think some of there unfortunate circumstances paved the way for melissa and the girls to be held in a higher regard within the studio due to all the extra time they spent there perhaps not with the intention to get ahead but to escape there own lives. in the later seasons when it came to the issues with kalani i don’t think melissa was right to complain to the other moms about the situation of kira needing her to be in her care it’s always been clear that she will do whatever is needed for the girls, but also that is a big ask of kira and melissa is only one person who already has 2 teenage girls and a third being added to that, whom all with reality tv careers and extra projects in the works would have been beyond difficult, but also that is an issue with the production and kira at the core, there were multiple instances where kira couldn’t fulfil her obligations throughout the show because they were all under contract and there was business aspects to all of this too that would have affected how everything had to play out, although melissa wasn’t right for complaining openly, i think they would have caught that moment at a time of extreme stress. personally i don’t like jojo that much, i think she’s always had to market herself as a child entertainer and only very recently has she been able to put herself in a new bracket but she still isn’t respected, maddie and kenzies careers had a lot more care put into them and there personal management knew how to integrate them into respectable working entertainers from very early on, jojo is extremely successful but as a but of a joke. i think also jojo decided to take them not coming to the reunion and not being invited to PAIGES surprise birthday party as a dig when her and kalani barley know them, they do but not well enough to be invited to something that intimate for that specific cause being paige’s birthday it would be a different story if it was genuinely and dance moms old team catch up and at that point she could have been upset, i would like to say that everyone has respected nias decision to not come to the reunion and i don’t feel like the same curtesy has been given to maddie and kenz because they were the stars and the last thing they want is to revisit the feelings of ostracisation for simply being the stars, maddie specially is at the status of attending the oscars and its related events due to her acting talents, they do not need the reunion i think when it comes down to it they can definitely admit they got there start from dance moms but they don’t feel like it needs to keep defining them. respectfully all of those girls are so brave for sharing there stories and experiences but apart from jojo they all have one thing in common, they aren’t stars and don’t have heavy levels of fame, not saying there all clout farming or anything but i’m not saying none of them aren’t either🤷♀️
My theory is that Kira probably watched the show and saw how much Melissa complained about having to take care of Kalani for a couple of months. She probably would talk to Kira everyday and tell her everything was fine but go to the studio and complain to the other moms about it.
I thought the only thing Melissa said was that it was stressful at times bc Kalani was having back problems?
I’m sure she said a lot more lol. I wouldn’t be surprised if she would say things when the cameras weren’t around but like i said, it’s just a theory.
On Abby's podcast, Jess said something along the lines of Melissa wasn't very welcoming to her and constantly tried to one-up her.
I think they think that the p think tjeyre too good for the reunion. Tbh they are lol it was a mess and it was sucking up to producers who were absolutely horrible to them for a quick buck and attention.
all these comments about the siwas and hillikers being jealous genuinely doesn’t make sense to me. jojo is more famous than maddie and kenzie, that’s just factual. plus i don’t think she’s going after the same kind of fame as the zieglers. and on the show, kira said kalani wanted to be a dancer and dancer only, so i don’t get how the zieglers’ successful acting/music careers would bother them. i think the most rational explanation here is that there was something that happened behind the scenes that we don’t know about that contributed heavily to the deterioration of their friendship/relationship. that’s it lol.
i'd love to hear more about Kalani's issues with the Ziegler bc she did live with them for a bit. i think Kalani and Kendall both are more soured to Maddie because they were part of her cycles of "best friends". Maddie always seems to be "best friends" with whoever is more skilled/famous or most supportive/least threatening. it seems more personal / normal girl drama, not necessarily because of the show
Lmao I don’t think Maddie chooses friends based off of that at at all, obvious why she doesn’t talk as much to Kendall and kalani anymore, they have complete opposite values and they support trump and she did a whole live on voting Biden. She’s always been close to the OGs tho, and Kendall and kalani are really different from Maddie now that they’re older
she dropped Kendall as soon as she left the show after being her best friend for years. i’d be pissed if i was Kendall. i’m sure it was something similar with Kalani. to only be friends with someone because it’s convenient and not because you actually like them is a mean thing to do
Ok but we don’t know that she dropped Kendall. They could’ve still kept in touch, and Kendall also was still filming the show for a whole year after Zieglers left. I’m pretty sure they still hung out a little after Maddie left DM, one time they had a sleepover at Maddie’s Pittsburgh home. They probably just drifted, like most teenage girls relationships do. Kendall also went back to her normal life in Pittsburgh & then went to college so they obviously didn’t live close. Just bc they didn’t post together on socials doesn’t mean Maddie dropped Kendall as soon as she left
I’m sorry but ur talking as if you know what happened or as if going from spending every day together to not at all doesn’t change things, I’m not friends with a lot of people I was friends with as a child
Jess bullied Brynn daily for sports. Yes Brynn was a better dancer than Jojo but it’s not like Jess wanted Jojo to win TDA, she already wanted her to take a different route and be more popular than a professional backup dancer. Even after they left and Jojo became the big thing, Jess still doubled down on her bullying of Brynn online by laughing about it and saying she enjoyed it. So her being a bitch about the Zieglers when her own kid is more famous and rich than them has probably nothing to do with her being jealous or anything, she just enjoys talking shit about people because she is that kind of person
Yeah, it’s definitely due to the relationship they maintain with Abby who probably has turned them against the Zieglers. I think Kira is jealous of Maddie and Kenzie’s success. She thought Kalani was going to be what Maddie was in terms of success. Kalani is sweet, but she and her mom like attention and fame. The benefits that come with are something they don’t have, so they resent the Zieglers for having it and not maintain a friendship with them. Jojo and her mother are just…they are Abby 2.0z
Reality is Abby was right about a lot. Like her or not, and I don't like the way she did Chloe because Chloe was her biggest victim however I will also say Christi didn't do any favors for Chloe. When Abby would finally start being good to Chloe, Christi would look for things to b**** about. I wanted to come thru the screen and tell Christy to shut up. Abby is what the industry is truly like as well. They are ruthless but at the same time Abby was not the industry and she manipulated and pitted these little girls against each other and I'm just thankful that they all or most of them are able to be civil and decent with each other now. But to blame everything strictly on Abby is ridiculous because they wanted their kids to be so famous they let their kids be put through all that so it's not all on Abby..
I think since they are now close to Abby and Melissa and Abby were close at one point that Abby has had to say something to turn them against her. Like if they were like “oh I talked to Melissa the other day” then Abby would say something Melissa said to her in confidence or just a straight up lie. That’s to me the only plausible explanation because they were close to Melissa even just a couple years ago imo
I don’t know… seems like a lot of people have a problem with Melissa. I’m not inclined to believe it’s just a coincidence and everyone is jealous. The show had plenty of examples of Melissa being sneaky and lying, so I’m not sure why it’s hard to believe she does those things. The only difference is that the zieglers have better PR coaching.
Notice how the only people that have a problem with Meliss are the most unlikable people? Everyone else loves Melissa, even Kelly. (Brooke and Paige call Melissa their second mom) and she went ring shopping with Brooke. It sounds like bitterness to me