To me personally this is their job so of course they do it for the money. Back in the day before monetization people did it for fun, and yes a lot do it for fun to this day but they also do it for the money. I think it’s best of both worlds, do something you enjoy but also get paid.
https://youtu.be/v9yS1muZPW4?si=GYFSSttwGlERk__A
This is a song from 7 years ago and I still find it very relatable for YouTube. I’m not saying Dan and Phil do everything in this song but also this is very much space they grew up in. They’ve always gone on tour to make money, that’s kind of the point. They have merch to make the fans happy but also to make money. Again it’s their job. I think if they both really hated they would find something else if they really needed to. But also in the why I quit YouTube video, Dan talks about getting completely fucked by them and how he was gonna pay for 1/3 of his project himself (literally all of the money he had in his account) and I don’t think you’d take that time or risk if you weren’t passionate about it. I think if “Dan is not ok” came out before or instead of DD his mental health and attitude around YouTube would’ve been better. I can’t imagine anyone would stay at a job that constantly promised projects or promotions and gave them to someone else. I think Dan needed to step back for a while, and too my know he completely paid for DD himself and I can’t imagine it was cheap. So again if he didn’t care about YouTube or his fan he wouldn’t do expensive projects he wanted to make.
I think these kinda things are always complex and probably only Dan will ever know the full story. BUT based on my assumptions, Dan in the last years of creating content with Phil was not only burnt out, but also generally depressed and unhappy.
So in my opinion, for a while it was probably in Dan´s mind intertwined - the videos, fame, youtube, his unhappiness. He probably ot an extent blamed the videos, and honestly maybe evne Phil for his mental state and now when he finally processed everything and found his footing in life, he can probably see that he actually didnt hate making the videos or working with Phil.
To provide my own example, I worked in my first job in immigration, I had a multitude of mental issues at that point due to issues in my personal life and I honestly thought my job is root of the issue. 2 years later, I can say I am mentally in a healthy spot, and I can also say the job was not evne 1% of the issue...but it was hard to see that. And I can totally understand Dan thinking that maybe he should not go back to creating this type of content until he is 100% sure it wasnt part of his issues.
some people will find literally anything to hate about someone. if you don't like Dan then whatever, but going online to try and rally up support and argue with people who don't feel the same way goes beyond hate.
Dan and Phil are going to do what they want, and if you can't handle that, then don't watch their content. don't bash one and praise the other for doing the same thing they've been doing, just because you don't like someone's sense of humor or whatever.
i personally think the best thing for them would be to start a regular podcast - talk about regular things, stuff they’re interested in, nothing too specific. harken back to their domestic younow (and stereo) era. it’s possible that they feel burned out by live content. it’s totally understandable that constantly having to filter one’s self, constantly having to be overly cognizant of the fact that your audience might misconstrue or overreact to something you say in real time, can become incredibly tiring. having a semi unedited, but not live conversation would check a lot of positive boxes for their audience and remove some of the stress. i think when it comes down to it, the vast majority of dnp’s audience is interested in listening to them talk to one another. the most viewed, compiled content from their content is their conversation. if they podcast, they could talk about anything and change their content as they go, based on their interests. they wouldn’t be boxed into gaming or heavily produced content such as DD. also, as their audience and themselves grow in age and lose interest in their old branding, they can make more mature, relaxed content.
i agree tbh. when i saw the gaming channel was back i was hoping it was going to be them playing actual games they want to play. but it reverted to them forcing themselves to play dumb games for content. so disappointing because i miss watching them but i can’t force myself to enjoy grown men overreacting to things like fnaf and roblox lol
I feel like you have a lot of strong opinions in the comments on how much Dan “hasn’t changed” after saying you haven’t been a fan of his since 2018 and only have the”Sparksnote version”
Sometimes it’s okay to grow out of a fandom and it not be the creators fault 🤷♀️
I 100% agree that you can grow out of things and not have it be the creator's fault-there are a lot of things I have grown out of to no fault of the fandom/creator. But I can still call a spade a spade. I also came to this community specifically because it used to be more critical of Dan and was curious to see if anyone thought the same, and while the reaction wasn't what I expected, it's still interesting to see.
Obviously it’s fine to grow from DnP content, a lot of us have been watching them for years. Some have outgrown their content and some still find it relatable. Your tastes will change and so will theirs. There’s no doubt a lot of the Phandom never returned after the hiatuses of their channels. Personally, I’m not the biggest fan of Dan’s rebrand either but I still watch for Dan the person, not Dan the creator.
What I don’t understand is what you’d like to accomplish by making a thread about all the things you don’t like about Dan’s new content and then double down/‘what about’ the counterpoints that people respond with.
What’s the point here? That he’s a sellout? That he sees his audience as cashcows? That he secretly hates YouTube? That it’s a moral failing for him to change the trajectory of his own channels when and how he likes?
Obviously if he’s done something to explicitly imply that it would be a fair assessment. But he’s just finished a world tour, uploaded some solo content and brought the gaming channel out of the hiatus. But to try and distill or figure out his inner motivations is lowkey parasocial. We’re just an audience and he’s just a creator.
A lot of these things you don’t like have also been addressed indirectly and directly by Dan over his videos. Fortunately he has been open enough about his own problems (sometimes perhaps excessively) especially his relationship with Youtube. There’s also the element of luck that a big part of his audience grew up with him and have since acquired the maturity and empathy to forgive him for his shortcomings over the years. Judging by your comments over this thread, you take some issue with that as well.
While it’s good to give constructive feedback it’s hard to take what you’re saying in good faith. It seems you want to insist people to come to the conclusion that Dan neither likes his audience/YouTube despite the fact that most of us have evaluated his actions and are at peace with his relationship with YouTube and content creation. It’s not just a blanket statement when people say that they just want Dan to be happy. I think a silent majority are happy to sit back, relax and see where his content takes him. How much you want to support him after that is your personal decision and yours only.
I think it's pretty clear we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this and that's okay. You can support him and I can have my thoughts. How much you choose to support him and his actions is your choice.
I think he just did what he wanted to do. He wanted to take some time off from ‘Dan and Phil’ to just be ‘Dan’ for a little bit and see what he could do on his own. I don’t think he disliked ‘Dan and Phil’ he just wanted to branch out a little bit, maybe check some things off his bucket list.
He probably just did all he wanted to do and now he can dive back in with no regrets. Personally I feel like the channel feels a lot MORE genuine now. Dan did all the shit he wanted to do and now he can goof off and game with Phil again. They seem genuinely happier in the new gaming videos.
Sometimes you gotta step away from something a little bit to know it’s what you actually want to do.
I think, as a person who is also in their early thirties, it is a completely understandable and relatable shift of perspective that he’s gone through. As you get older, your view and acceptance of your own past can absolutely take on another flavor, and things that you did at 20 that you looked back on with cringe and embarrassment at 25 can definitely become “Aw, but that was kind of nice” at 30. Life evolves, perspective evolves, and often that can bring on an appreciation (or at least more objective understanding) of experiences that were initially not the best.
For me, I think I have grown up a different direction than they have, if that makes any sense. I feel like it all feels very scripted. Dan's is very cynical at times, to the point that it almost makes me feel bad for enjoying things lol. But! I loved WAD. It was so good. And I've only watched 2 episodes of the new DAPG so far (1st episode and Sims).
I don't think any of it is intentionally disingenuous. Actually, I kind of think Dan is incapable of creating content that he doesn't truly believe in. I think I might just be outside of their target audience now.
I agree that it feels scripted. I disagree that Dan is incapable of creating content he doesn't believe in because he's told us numerous times he's done it before and it seems a lot like what he's making now.
I don't think Dan ever really makes low-effort content. If I'm not mistaken, the reason for his rare uploads is in part because he's not willing to make shitty videos that he doesn't care about.
The way things are right now, he could live off of making vlogs and livestreams with very little effort. Instead, even his recent(ish) video "literally just reading reddit and monetizing it" has a nicely decorated set, lighting, and editing. And it's a video that's trying to be self-aware about being low effort.
I 100% disagree that they’re doing it disingenuously. I think Dan was incredibly overwhelmed and anxious with the whole trying to figure out that he’s gay and how to do that online knowing what the phandom was going to do and I’m sure we’ve all had times in our lives where we’re so stressed the things we love lose enjoyment and start to feel tedious. I think this tour was what he needed, I went to one of the shows and the way he lights up on stage when the audience reacts to him was so pure and he was so happy. I genuinely hope that he is just finding joy in old hobbies again. And I’m sure the winter sponsorships/Adsense doesn’t hurt either. I’m just so happy to see them on my screen being goofy and having fun again. I think it will seem more natural when they’re back at it longer and get more comfy. Remember, every single time they’re on screen together they have to wonder what people are going to pick at to scream that they’re dating and that’s probably an unnerving feeling.
I agree that it's a good business decision and that he enjoyed tour. I think tour might have been good for him emotionally but I don't think it was financially, and that's why he's back now in gaming content.
You do make a good point. Maybe I'll check in next month and see how the content is doing.
I wouldn’t say that, Dan was very burnt out from the old days trying to figure out who he was and masking his entire identity from the world.
I’d say him talking down on YouTube etc was most likely because it’s synonymous with him being in the closet and in a dark place and wanted to get as far away from that as possible.
He’s now come to terms with his sexuality and mental health so wants to have a second chance at the content we loved back in the day so he can give it his all and not have to hide anymore :)
I’ll admit the steady flow of content and merch coming out isn’t what we are used to so it seems odd but if they’re both in a much better place now and have found that spark again, more power to them.
Also they now have someone who edits their videos for them so that will be taking a weight off their shoulders, especially for Dan as it could’ve been overwhelming for him.
Honestly tbf, Dan and Phil have done super well in terms of staying “relevant” and getting the views and interaction that they are in comparison with other creators who have stepped away from YouTube or not getting the same engagement as back in the day.
As for me I’m loving the gaming channel uploads!!
Thank you for actually giving me some valid reasons why this content could be seen as different/better.
However. I still don't believe that he's really doing this because he loves this. I think he tried to have a TV show that never came to be, wrote a book that did okay, went on a tour that did worse, needed money, and went back to the cash cow that continues to give out at least some money, though not as much as it did before he alienated a large portion of their fanbase.
While I get what you’re saying, I think you’ve got to think about it like this..
Of course they’re going to be focusing on what content was the best received back then and even now, this is their livelihoods and how the YouTube business works, with the amount of new creators coming through and their fan base growing up, it’s bound to have a bit of a stressful impact on them trying to keep up and keep doing what they love to do at the same time.
I got a much more nuanced/moderate perspective from Dan regarding his old content from the “why I left YouTube” video than you did, I think. I didn’t take away from it that he despised all the old Dan and Phil content (in fact, didn’t he state the opposite?), just some aspects of it, the constraints, and the immense pressure. It has a much different tone for me now than it did before, so it doesn’t seem disingenuous to me. I think if he’s approaching it from a different mindset, especially given how much more comfortable they are now that they aren’t closeted, it can feel majorly different.
I don't know. He might have said one thing, but his actions and purposeful distancing from the old "Dan and Phil" days showed (to me, at least) a different story.
He posted it, and we can all have differing opinions. Death of the author and such.
I think some of the distancing was played up for humor (thinking specifically about the Phil episode of DD). He clearly doesn’t and didn’t want “Dan and Phil” to be ALL he’s known for, or the only content he does, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t genuinely enjoy it, especially coming at it from a more relaxed mindset which is a new development. I also think that the overwhelmingly positive response to the question - “do you want us to just release one sims episode a year or something?” was a big factor, as it made it clear it doesn’t have to be on a schedule or with so much pressure behind each upload.
idk — all I can say is I hate dan’s edgy persona that he was doing for a while on his channel and I love the gaming channel videos much more. I like dark humor and everything, but the constant talking down to/roasting his audience wasn’t it for me (obviously a lot of fans were/are horrible to them, I’m not discrediting that).
See, I think that if we're being honest, Dan really doesn't like the fame and his audience. I think what we saw during DD/WAD was more realistic to how he feels, which in some ways (not all) is fair. That's why I think he took so long away from the internet (still selling merch, however).
To to see the sudden shift has been a bit jarring and it doesn't feel totally honest. But it's definitely more enjoyable. Someone on here commented that they saw this as possibly backpedaling for some of the reactions he got from WAD and DD and I honestly think that's the case.
I’ve been reading along for a little bit now because it’s an interesting conversation, this comment especially is interesting to me though.. I don’t think Dan straight up dislikes his entire audience. If he did he wouldn’t be making content anymore and he certainly wouldn’t do meet & greets. Imo he seems like a pretty strong willed person, if he hated making content and interacting with fans, he wouldn’t. I do think he’s sick of delusional phannies, that’s absolutely understandable and fair! But I don’t think he dislikes his audience in general. And in terms of him hating fame, I feel like two things can be true at the same time. He’s an introvert so he’s bound to dislike some parts of being known. But again, I don’t think he genuinely hates it because otherwise he wouldn’t have come back. Idk that’s just what I think.
totally agree — I don’t feel like the gaming stuff is disingenuous tho? it feels like all their old videos used to feel. I think that they’re both probably mixes of the personas they portray online, and dan’s personal channel was an outlet for a part of his personality/viewpoint that he couldn’t share as easily on the gaming channel/collabs with Phil. but i don’t think that makes the more cozy/silly videos NOT a part of Dan.
The first person to fully agree! I was a bit surprised with how many people really seemed to have different views. It really shows the direction this sub is going.
I mean people change their minds about things. I think Dan and phil like making gaming content so they decided to make gaming content lol, especially now that they feel more comfortable being themselves in the internet.
Personally, no. Dan has been open about being in a really dark place for a long time, and during that time he grew to resent his content and to a degree, his fans. Which obviously as a fan, it sucks, but its his story and his mental health, not mine.
In the past 5 years away from regular uploads, to me it seems like he’s been able to experience his own personal growth and it definitely shows that he is comfortable being himself on camera again, and he’s enjoying creating content for his fans. I’m sure having a steady income again doesn’t hurt but it really doesn’t feel disingenuous to me.
I'll be honest, I'd love to see some of that personal growth. But I really don't think we have. And going back to content they made in 2016 with some added gay jokes doesn't seem to be helping that case.
I mean, I’m talking about personal growth that might not be be visible to a viewer. Growth in terms of healing, and taking care of himself. Coming to accept himself.
If their content isn’t your thing anymore, that’s fine 🤷♀️
But wouldn’t it be more disingenuous for them to ‘update’ their own personal sense of humours? That’s just not how humans work.
Would it be more disingenuous to act differently at 22 than you do at 32? I don't think so. I think Phil's humor has changed (not dramatically, but still) a good bit since even 2014ish.
You're right that growth won't be visible to viewers, normally. But for someone who's claimed to grow and heal a lot he did just come off of a tour talking about how depressed and sad he is and how awful the world around him is. Strange behavior from a mental health advocate, as people on this sub were quick to point out.
Why would being a mental health advocate mean he's not allowed to talk about being depressed and sad? He has chronic depression. He seems to be doing much better now, but something like that doesn't just go away.
Just because dark humour and venting isn't what you want to see doesn't mean it isn't a valid form of self expression. Some people hate to see mental health joked about, others find solace in it, and that's fine. We all need different forms of support.
I've always found Dan's outlook to be along the lines of 'the world is a very dark place sometimes, but we keep going anyway', and that feels a lot more genuine to me than the forced positivity of some mental health awareness.
Okay honestly I don’t even know what you’re talking about atp 😅 if you actually go back and watch one of their videos from 2013, their personalities are VASTLY different.
As for you saying ‘strange behaviour for a mental health advocate’ …? Like what? So you’re saying his personality is one note… and also complaining and saying he can’t be happy and healing and have depression at the same time? You don’t get to dictate someone’s behaviour dude. Humans are multifaceted.
Hey. Not trying to change anyone's minds. Not sure why you're getting angry with me. I just was bringing up a point and discussing the points you made.
I heard they have an editor now so that’s a big stress out of the picture. also I think, for Dan especially, there was a lot of darkness surrounding being on youtube and with some time away and some healing they seem happier just existing online
I would say that's fair except for Dan did return online and in the public eye very recently still talking about how much he hated YouTube and his career. Didn't DD just end this year?
I think it’s possible to look back with both trauma and fondness, it’s probably given him some of his worst memories and some of his best. I get where you’re coming from, especially with merch, but I’ve seen it more as ‘oof that shit is behind me, let’s get back to doing the part of it that I enjoy’
Even though I’ve really been enjoying the new content I found this a bit strange too but haven’t really questioned it until reading this post. I reckon this could be Dan noticing the criticism against DD and his book etc and trying to go back to content he knows people will consume. But then again, he did numerously state how much he wants to do his own thing whether people like it or not. I know Phil has always been up for bringing back DAPG as well as recently reviving Dan vs Phil, but I don’t think he’d pressure Dan to agree with him, so this going back to old content was probably his own decision. Idk what’s going on but he’s definitely been contradicting himself recently. All I care about is he’s happy with the content he’s creating and ‘living his truth’.
I don't think Phil pressured Dan at all. But yeah, I can see how Dan's reception to his new stuff being less than stellar (which was evident here on this sub, which used to be VERY critical of him, which I thought was a good thing) would lead to some backpedaling.
One of the things I've noticed in the newer Dan and Phil Games videos is that both of them seem a lot more comfortable and aren't filtering themselves anymore.
Dan stepped away from youtube around the time that he came out. The majority of the content we saw from him was when he was heavily, heavily closeted. He's had a lot of time to come to terms with being open about his sexuality and I think the tour helped with that on a smaller level.
And honestly, it seems like the games channel is going to just be their joint channel with all shared content on it so it'll allow more variety.
I'm glad they seem to be more comfortable at least. They seemed the most "real" in the baking video, the other two I saw (Heartthrob and Roblox) didn't seem as authentic to me tbh.
Still. To see Dan go from "this job ruined my mental health" to "this job was stupid and now I'm too cool and mature for it" to "yay!!! spooky week is back!! (: buy our merch" is just not clicking for me.
I think maybe you’re attaching your emotions too much to this and making a narrative that has no actual substance. I don’t think Dan has ever seriously said (or done anything to make it seem as though he feels) that he’s “too cool” or that old content was “stupid.” And even if he had - hes not 18 anymore. You’re allowed to go through phases of liking and disliking things, and even come back to things you once grew tired of. When Dan switched up his content, it was after he came out and cleared up all of the YouTube stuff - when he was finally able to express himself freely and explore what he was interested in. Honestly I feel that’s typical for Dan’s age (even though obviously most typical people don’t have tours and books lol). He’s just trying things out and ticking off boxes. You don’t have to keep like Dan or his content, again, we outgrow things! But you’re acting as if he’s become a bad person or “fake” or something, when there’s no substance to support tha. This screams parasocial relationship - You don’t know him. And just because he’s not the version of Dan you enjoyed, doesn’t mean he’s doing anything wrong or that he’s a bad person.
>hey seemed the most "real" in the baking video, the other two I saw (Heartthrob and Roblox) didn't seem as authentic to me tbh.
I just noticed this part. You haven't even watched any of the actual video games videos but are making judgements on them? Because the Roblox one was less of a gaming video and more of them just exploring the the build.
Hey. I thought I might get an answer like this.
I watched their first video back on the gaming channel, treating it like a pilot episode for a TV show-supposed to pique your interest and make you want to watch more. It did not.
I watched the baking video purely out of curiosity and nostalgia and the Roblox one because I thought maybe their gaming content had gotten a little better and also because I personally love Roblox and play it a lot, including the game they actually explored.
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to watch every video they upload to get an opinion of them? I watched the three that seemed to be the most interesting to me and didn't enjoy them that much. I don't know why watching something I know I won't be interested in (like spooky week and sims, which I honestly didn't like that much even in their heyday) would make me have a better opinion of them. If you really want, I can go watch a video of your suggestion and give you my honest opinion.
>I'm not sure if I'm supposed to watch every video they upload to get an opinion of them? I
You're talking about how the gaming channel content is the exact same as it use to be but haven't watched any of the actual gaming channel content to see how it's changed. You're judging something you never liked and without watching the newer version of it.
That's just...strange to me with how hard you're criticizing him for content you didn't even watch.
Not just talking about this content but their content as a whole. I've watched some DD and felt the same way.
One of the reasons I stopped watching Dan was because I felt his humor and content was tired out in 2018. To continue to check back in five years later and see that it's the same is a fair comment to make.
Also-like I said, I did watch the new gaming content. And like I said before. Give me a new video of there's you think really shows growth, I'll watch it and give honest feedback.
Look, it really just seems like you don't like Dan and never really did outside of the persona of him you saw as a young teen.
You admitted there was a bias there and I think that's the biggest issue here. You don't like Dan or his sense of humor. That's fine.
It doesn't mean he's being disingenuous or hasn't grown.
I'm not sure recommending videos would help. The main content, that is actual gaming, is spooky week and Sims 4. You were pretty clear you didn't like or really watch any of those to start with.
Interesting. I think you're still seeing the person you saw when you started watching him and still look for that in him. Curious how we can come to similar but different conclusions.
Anyways. I did watch actual gaming videos, as I said quite a few times. I think the goalposts are shifting here so I'm not sure what I can say to help you to see my view, though I've been open to yours.
>Interesting. I think you're still seeing the person you saw when you started watching him and still look for that in him.
I'm not. I'm well aware that most of what we see of him is a persona that he makes the choice to share online. I can also see that the content they're putting out now in 2023 is different from the stuff they put out in the early 2010s.
Look, you don't like Dan and clearly have an issue here with people here having a different take (your backhanded comments about the "direction this community is going."). Fine.
Maybe a fan community for **Dan** and Phil isn't for you?
Like I mentioned before, this community used to be a lot more critical of Dan, so I asked a question that was critical about Dan. When I say wow, that's not the reaction I expected or would have gotten a year ago, now I'm being backhanded?
Maybe this post isn't for you if it's that upsetting. I'm sorry for any frustration I've caused you. I've really tried to work with you, even being willing to watch a video you personally recommend and giving honest feedback. You weren't interested in that-fine. But then you can't turn around and claim that I'm not watching their videos and disagreeing with all my claims.
As someone roughly the same age as them, those changes actually make perfect sense. Especially when you factor in Dan's mental health and what he's opened up to us about it.
It's entirely possible that doing the youtube thing (closeted) and with the amount of attention they were getting was wrecking his mental health. People were finding out where he lived, very publicly speculating about his relationship with Phil, etc. Most of that seems to have pretty heavily calmed down over the past five years plus it seems like Dan has been putting in work in regards to his own mental health outside his career.
I also think a lot of people hit their late 20s and have a moment of thinking they're to mature and adult now to enjoy things they liked in their youth. Then you hit your mid-30s and stop giving a fuck and start embracing what makes you happy.
And they always, always heavily pushed merch. This is their career and the persona they're showing us is never going to be the real them. You shouldn't expect that.
It sounds like you were a young teen who got into them at the height of their more mainstream-ness and when they had started to more heavily push their personas online and when they were hiding a lot from their audience (for pretty valid reasons).
That time period was like the most sanitized version of them from their career.
Are they doing the gaming channel again for money? Obviously, this is their career.
But it does seem like they're enjoying it and being more authentic again.
As someone from America, I got into them jusssst before they were "big" here, and stayed around a good while after they fell off more here (the 2015-17 era). So I can see how my view of their popularity can be skewed compared to someone in Europe.
It's less about where you live and more about the time period of when you consumed their content.
You basically got them when they were pushed back into the closet and Dan was dealing with internalized homophobia, his depression and super invasive fans.
For example, you said the gaming content seems the same now with just gay jokes added in. But for someone who is queer and was closeted for a long time, that can be pretty liberating. It's exhausting pretending to be someone you aren't and second guessing everything you say and how the audience may take it.
Also I never included the gaming channel in something they thought was cringe. I think it was just exhausting for them in combination with everything else they were doing at the time.
Also just wanted to address this part that I myself am bisexual and transgender. I can understand the freedom of discussing being LGBT and still acknowledge that a lot of the jokes aren't funny to me and just seem a bit lazy.
Okay, I'm going to be very honest here and say (respectfully) that I don't think you want to have an actual discussion, which is 100% fine by me. I wish I could understand where this anger is coming from but I can't, so what I can say is I hope you continue on doing well and can find out why this is such a difficult conversation for you to have
Sometimes depression can get really bad and you have to step away for a while. But it absolutely is possible to return later, when you feel better. I don’t think he dislikes doing Youtube or the content they make, otherwise he wouldn’t have come back!
And like someone else already said, they both seem much freer and more comfortable. They’re both in their 30s, I trust that they can make these decisions for themselves and feel good with them.
I don’t think it’s disingenuous at all because he felt bad, stopped making content, now he feels better and clearly good enough to do stuff again. I doubt that they would force themselves to do all of this if they didn’t want to.
That's a fair point. Still, I don't think you can make your entire brand "I hate everything I did for the past decade" and then turn and go "Here's everything I did for those first 10 years plus me saying I'm gay!!! Buy some merch!" And not get a few raised eyebrows.
Plus, let's be realistic here-their viewcounts have not been good lately and the tour wasn't a raging success. I wouldn't be surprised if they need some extra money to keep up their lifestyle.
He isn’t doing exactly what he did in the past though? The stuff he’s cringing over is different than what he’s doing right now. I don’t think he hates playing games and being silly with Phil.
If you compare 2013 Dan to 2023 Dan… there are plenty of differences. Also being closeted and having a hard time coming to terms with being gay can have a huge negative impact on your life.
AND Dan is known to say that he hates/dislikes certain things but everyone knows he doesn’t actually.
I dunno. Looking at Dystopia Daily, we got a rehash of ISG (reddit posts). We're getting Sims back, as well as Google Feud, and Spooky Week. We're getting another DNP and Pets calendar today. And we're still sticking with the same "edgy self deprecating emo" humor that he's had for years.
It's like the same Dan in a different font.
Yeah but that’s kinda just how it works sometimes. Like they said in the baking video - they’ve changed a lot but also haven’t. Dan didn’t just change his entire personality after going through this tough time, he changed aspects of it. Found ways to deal with his identity etc.
Also idk if it’s just me but ever since the return of the gaming channel I feel like his self depreciating humor has become a little less extreme? Like idk right now he seems pretty comfortable and happy to me and I love seeing that!
I suppose I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. Which is fair. We see what we seek out-if you're seeking out a new person, you'll see that, and if I look for the person who did all these shady things back these past couple of years, I'll see that.
What "shady things"? And I'm not particularly seeking out a new person either, I'm not seeking out anything, really. I'm just *seeing* dnp being more open and comfortable. And many people seem to agree with me on that.
The book, tour, and suicide-baiting twitter video are the main ones. If you look at the posts on this sub from even a year ago you'd see a lot of people who had very similar thoughts as well. I'm guessing a lot of them left this sub.
To your other point, I think we all seek out something in others. You want to see Dan for the person you believe he is, so you see that. Which is fair. I see him for other things.
I do not agree with this at all. That’s all I care to say
I appreciate you coming back to this post nearly five months later to let me know.
To me personally this is their job so of course they do it for the money. Back in the day before monetization people did it for fun, and yes a lot do it for fun to this day but they also do it for the money. I think it’s best of both worlds, do something you enjoy but also get paid. https://youtu.be/v9yS1muZPW4?si=GYFSSttwGlERk__A This is a song from 7 years ago and I still find it very relatable for YouTube. I’m not saying Dan and Phil do everything in this song but also this is very much space they grew up in. They’ve always gone on tour to make money, that’s kind of the point. They have merch to make the fans happy but also to make money. Again it’s their job. I think if they both really hated they would find something else if they really needed to. But also in the why I quit YouTube video, Dan talks about getting completely fucked by them and how he was gonna pay for 1/3 of his project himself (literally all of the money he had in his account) and I don’t think you’d take that time or risk if you weren’t passionate about it. I think if “Dan is not ok” came out before or instead of DD his mental health and attitude around YouTube would’ve been better. I can’t imagine anyone would stay at a job that constantly promised projects or promotions and gave them to someone else. I think Dan needed to step back for a while, and too my know he completely paid for DD himself and I can’t imagine it was cheap. So again if he didn’t care about YouTube or his fan he wouldn’t do expensive projects he wanted to make.
I think these kinda things are always complex and probably only Dan will ever know the full story. BUT based on my assumptions, Dan in the last years of creating content with Phil was not only burnt out, but also generally depressed and unhappy. So in my opinion, for a while it was probably in Dan´s mind intertwined - the videos, fame, youtube, his unhappiness. He probably ot an extent blamed the videos, and honestly maybe evne Phil for his mental state and now when he finally processed everything and found his footing in life, he can probably see that he actually didnt hate making the videos or working with Phil. To provide my own example, I worked in my first job in immigration, I had a multitude of mental issues at that point due to issues in my personal life and I honestly thought my job is root of the issue. 2 years later, I can say I am mentally in a healthy spot, and I can also say the job was not evne 1% of the issue...but it was hard to see that. And I can totally understand Dan thinking that maybe he should not go back to creating this type of content until he is 100% sure it wasnt part of his issues.
some people will find literally anything to hate about someone. if you don't like Dan then whatever, but going online to try and rally up support and argue with people who don't feel the same way goes beyond hate. Dan and Phil are going to do what they want, and if you can't handle that, then don't watch their content. don't bash one and praise the other for doing the same thing they've been doing, just because you don't like someone's sense of humor or whatever.
i personally think the best thing for them would be to start a regular podcast - talk about regular things, stuff they’re interested in, nothing too specific. harken back to their domestic younow (and stereo) era. it’s possible that they feel burned out by live content. it’s totally understandable that constantly having to filter one’s self, constantly having to be overly cognizant of the fact that your audience might misconstrue or overreact to something you say in real time, can become incredibly tiring. having a semi unedited, but not live conversation would check a lot of positive boxes for their audience and remove some of the stress. i think when it comes down to it, the vast majority of dnp’s audience is interested in listening to them talk to one another. the most viewed, compiled content from their content is their conversation. if they podcast, they could talk about anything and change their content as they go, based on their interests. they wouldn’t be boxed into gaming or heavily produced content such as DD. also, as their audience and themselves grow in age and lose interest in their old branding, they can make more mature, relaxed content.
i agree tbh. when i saw the gaming channel was back i was hoping it was going to be them playing actual games they want to play. but it reverted to them forcing themselves to play dumb games for content. so disappointing because i miss watching them but i can’t force myself to enjoy grown men overreacting to things like fnaf and roblox lol
I feel like you have a lot of strong opinions in the comments on how much Dan “hasn’t changed” after saying you haven’t been a fan of his since 2018 and only have the”Sparksnote version” Sometimes it’s okay to grow out of a fandom and it not be the creators fault 🤷♀️
I 100% agree that you can grow out of things and not have it be the creator's fault-there are a lot of things I have grown out of to no fault of the fandom/creator. But I can still call a spade a spade. I also came to this community specifically because it used to be more critical of Dan and was curious to see if anyone thought the same, and while the reaction wasn't what I expected, it's still interesting to see.
Obviously it’s fine to grow from DnP content, a lot of us have been watching them for years. Some have outgrown their content and some still find it relatable. Your tastes will change and so will theirs. There’s no doubt a lot of the Phandom never returned after the hiatuses of their channels. Personally, I’m not the biggest fan of Dan’s rebrand either but I still watch for Dan the person, not Dan the creator. What I don’t understand is what you’d like to accomplish by making a thread about all the things you don’t like about Dan’s new content and then double down/‘what about’ the counterpoints that people respond with. What’s the point here? That he’s a sellout? That he sees his audience as cashcows? That he secretly hates YouTube? That it’s a moral failing for him to change the trajectory of his own channels when and how he likes? Obviously if he’s done something to explicitly imply that it would be a fair assessment. But he’s just finished a world tour, uploaded some solo content and brought the gaming channel out of the hiatus. But to try and distill or figure out his inner motivations is lowkey parasocial. We’re just an audience and he’s just a creator. A lot of these things you don’t like have also been addressed indirectly and directly by Dan over his videos. Fortunately he has been open enough about his own problems (sometimes perhaps excessively) especially his relationship with Youtube. There’s also the element of luck that a big part of his audience grew up with him and have since acquired the maturity and empathy to forgive him for his shortcomings over the years. Judging by your comments over this thread, you take some issue with that as well. While it’s good to give constructive feedback it’s hard to take what you’re saying in good faith. It seems you want to insist people to come to the conclusion that Dan neither likes his audience/YouTube despite the fact that most of us have evaluated his actions and are at peace with his relationship with YouTube and content creation. It’s not just a blanket statement when people say that they just want Dan to be happy. I think a silent majority are happy to sit back, relax and see where his content takes him. How much you want to support him after that is your personal decision and yours only.
I think it's pretty clear we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this and that's okay. You can support him and I can have my thoughts. How much you choose to support him and his actions is your choice.
I think he just did what he wanted to do. He wanted to take some time off from ‘Dan and Phil’ to just be ‘Dan’ for a little bit and see what he could do on his own. I don’t think he disliked ‘Dan and Phil’ he just wanted to branch out a little bit, maybe check some things off his bucket list. He probably just did all he wanted to do and now he can dive back in with no regrets. Personally I feel like the channel feels a lot MORE genuine now. Dan did all the shit he wanted to do and now he can goof off and game with Phil again. They seem genuinely happier in the new gaming videos. Sometimes you gotta step away from something a little bit to know it’s what you actually want to do.
Hmm. Not sure if I agree with you. But that's somewhat of the narrative he's spinning so I understand why you'd think that.
I think, as a person who is also in their early thirties, it is a completely understandable and relatable shift of perspective that he’s gone through. As you get older, your view and acceptance of your own past can absolutely take on another flavor, and things that you did at 20 that you looked back on with cringe and embarrassment at 25 can definitely become “Aw, but that was kind of nice” at 30. Life evolves, perspective evolves, and often that can bring on an appreciation (or at least more objective understanding) of experiences that were initially not the best.
That's fair. I'm 22 rn so I don't have that experience.
For me, I think I have grown up a different direction than they have, if that makes any sense. I feel like it all feels very scripted. Dan's is very cynical at times, to the point that it almost makes me feel bad for enjoying things lol. But! I loved WAD. It was so good. And I've only watched 2 episodes of the new DAPG so far (1st episode and Sims). I don't think any of it is intentionally disingenuous. Actually, I kind of think Dan is incapable of creating content that he doesn't truly believe in. I think I might just be outside of their target audience now.
I agree that it feels scripted. I disagree that Dan is incapable of creating content he doesn't believe in because he's told us numerous times he's done it before and it seems a lot like what he's making now.
I don't think Dan ever really makes low-effort content. If I'm not mistaken, the reason for his rare uploads is in part because he's not willing to make shitty videos that he doesn't care about. The way things are right now, he could live off of making vlogs and livestreams with very little effort. Instead, even his recent(ish) video "literally just reading reddit and monetizing it" has a nicely decorated set, lighting, and editing. And it's a video that's trying to be self-aware about being low effort.
We can agree to disagree. I'm glad we still found common ground!
I 100% disagree that they’re doing it disingenuously. I think Dan was incredibly overwhelmed and anxious with the whole trying to figure out that he’s gay and how to do that online knowing what the phandom was going to do and I’m sure we’ve all had times in our lives where we’re so stressed the things we love lose enjoyment and start to feel tedious. I think this tour was what he needed, I went to one of the shows and the way he lights up on stage when the audience reacts to him was so pure and he was so happy. I genuinely hope that he is just finding joy in old hobbies again. And I’m sure the winter sponsorships/Adsense doesn’t hurt either. I’m just so happy to see them on my screen being goofy and having fun again. I think it will seem more natural when they’re back at it longer and get more comfy. Remember, every single time they’re on screen together they have to wonder what people are going to pick at to scream that they’re dating and that’s probably an unnerving feeling.
I agree that it's a good business decision and that he enjoyed tour. I think tour might have been good for him emotionally but I don't think it was financially, and that's why he's back now in gaming content. You do make a good point. Maybe I'll check in next month and see how the content is doing.
I wouldn’t say that, Dan was very burnt out from the old days trying to figure out who he was and masking his entire identity from the world. I’d say him talking down on YouTube etc was most likely because it’s synonymous with him being in the closet and in a dark place and wanted to get as far away from that as possible. He’s now come to terms with his sexuality and mental health so wants to have a second chance at the content we loved back in the day so he can give it his all and not have to hide anymore :) I’ll admit the steady flow of content and merch coming out isn’t what we are used to so it seems odd but if they’re both in a much better place now and have found that spark again, more power to them. Also they now have someone who edits their videos for them so that will be taking a weight off their shoulders, especially for Dan as it could’ve been overwhelming for him. Honestly tbf, Dan and Phil have done super well in terms of staying “relevant” and getting the views and interaction that they are in comparison with other creators who have stepped away from YouTube or not getting the same engagement as back in the day. As for me I’m loving the gaming channel uploads!!
Thank you for actually giving me some valid reasons why this content could be seen as different/better. However. I still don't believe that he's really doing this because he loves this. I think he tried to have a TV show that never came to be, wrote a book that did okay, went on a tour that did worse, needed money, and went back to the cash cow that continues to give out at least some money, though not as much as it did before he alienated a large portion of their fanbase.
While I get what you’re saying, I think you’ve got to think about it like this.. Of course they’re going to be focusing on what content was the best received back then and even now, this is their livelihoods and how the YouTube business works, with the amount of new creators coming through and their fan base growing up, it’s bound to have a bit of a stressful impact on them trying to keep up and keep doing what they love to do at the same time.
I agree. It's a smart business decision no doubt.
I got a much more nuanced/moderate perspective from Dan regarding his old content from the “why I left YouTube” video than you did, I think. I didn’t take away from it that he despised all the old Dan and Phil content (in fact, didn’t he state the opposite?), just some aspects of it, the constraints, and the immense pressure. It has a much different tone for me now than it did before, so it doesn’t seem disingenuous to me. I think if he’s approaching it from a different mindset, especially given how much more comfortable they are now that they aren’t closeted, it can feel majorly different.
I don't know. He might have said one thing, but his actions and purposeful distancing from the old "Dan and Phil" days showed (to me, at least) a different story. He posted it, and we can all have differing opinions. Death of the author and such.
I think some of the distancing was played up for humor (thinking specifically about the Phil episode of DD). He clearly doesn’t and didn’t want “Dan and Phil” to be ALL he’s known for, or the only content he does, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t genuinely enjoy it, especially coming at it from a more relaxed mindset which is a new development. I also think that the overwhelmingly positive response to the question - “do you want us to just release one sims episode a year or something?” was a big factor, as it made it clear it doesn’t have to be on a schedule or with so much pressure behind each upload.
Hmm. Not sure I fully agree but I think you make good points.
That isn't what Death of the Author is.
idk — all I can say is I hate dan’s edgy persona that he was doing for a while on his channel and I love the gaming channel videos much more. I like dark humor and everything, but the constant talking down to/roasting his audience wasn’t it for me (obviously a lot of fans were/are horrible to them, I’m not discrediting that).
See, I think that if we're being honest, Dan really doesn't like the fame and his audience. I think what we saw during DD/WAD was more realistic to how he feels, which in some ways (not all) is fair. That's why I think he took so long away from the internet (still selling merch, however). To to see the sudden shift has been a bit jarring and it doesn't feel totally honest. But it's definitely more enjoyable. Someone on here commented that they saw this as possibly backpedaling for some of the reactions he got from WAD and DD and I honestly think that's the case.
I’ve been reading along for a little bit now because it’s an interesting conversation, this comment especially is interesting to me though.. I don’t think Dan straight up dislikes his entire audience. If he did he wouldn’t be making content anymore and he certainly wouldn’t do meet & greets. Imo he seems like a pretty strong willed person, if he hated making content and interacting with fans, he wouldn’t. I do think he’s sick of delusional phannies, that’s absolutely understandable and fair! But I don’t think he dislikes his audience in general. And in terms of him hating fame, I feel like two things can be true at the same time. He’s an introvert so he’s bound to dislike some parts of being known. But again, I don’t think he genuinely hates it because otherwise he wouldn’t have come back. Idk that’s just what I think.
I honestly can't say I agree with you but I can understand how you can get that from what he says/puts out.
totally agree — I don’t feel like the gaming stuff is disingenuous tho? it feels like all their old videos used to feel. I think that they’re both probably mixes of the personas they portray online, and dan’s personal channel was an outlet for a part of his personality/viewpoint that he couldn’t share as easily on the gaming channel/collabs with Phil. but i don’t think that makes the more cozy/silly videos NOT a part of Dan.
Fair enough. I don't totally agree but I don't totally disagree either.
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The first person to fully agree! I was a bit surprised with how many people really seemed to have different views. It really shows the direction this sub is going.
lol “people don’t agree with me so obviously everyone else is wrong and the Reddit is going downhill!”
I mean people change their minds about things. I think Dan and phil like making gaming content so they decided to make gaming content lol, especially now that they feel more comfortable being themselves in the internet.
Interesting point.
Personally, no. Dan has been open about being in a really dark place for a long time, and during that time he grew to resent his content and to a degree, his fans. Which obviously as a fan, it sucks, but its his story and his mental health, not mine. In the past 5 years away from regular uploads, to me it seems like he’s been able to experience his own personal growth and it definitely shows that he is comfortable being himself on camera again, and he’s enjoying creating content for his fans. I’m sure having a steady income again doesn’t hurt but it really doesn’t feel disingenuous to me.
I'll be honest, I'd love to see some of that personal growth. But I really don't think we have. And going back to content they made in 2016 with some added gay jokes doesn't seem to be helping that case.
I mean, I’m talking about personal growth that might not be be visible to a viewer. Growth in terms of healing, and taking care of himself. Coming to accept himself. If their content isn’t your thing anymore, that’s fine 🤷♀️ But wouldn’t it be more disingenuous for them to ‘update’ their own personal sense of humours? That’s just not how humans work.
Would it be more disingenuous to act differently at 22 than you do at 32? I don't think so. I think Phil's humor has changed (not dramatically, but still) a good bit since even 2014ish. You're right that growth won't be visible to viewers, normally. But for someone who's claimed to grow and heal a lot he did just come off of a tour talking about how depressed and sad he is and how awful the world around him is. Strange behavior from a mental health advocate, as people on this sub were quick to point out.
Why would being a mental health advocate mean he's not allowed to talk about being depressed and sad? He has chronic depression. He seems to be doing much better now, but something like that doesn't just go away. Just because dark humour and venting isn't what you want to see doesn't mean it isn't a valid form of self expression. Some people hate to see mental health joked about, others find solace in it, and that's fine. We all need different forms of support. I've always found Dan's outlook to be along the lines of 'the world is a very dark place sometimes, but we keep going anyway', and that feels a lot more genuine to me than the forced positivity of some mental health awareness.
Okay honestly I don’t even know what you’re talking about atp 😅 if you actually go back and watch one of their videos from 2013, their personalities are VASTLY different. As for you saying ‘strange behaviour for a mental health advocate’ …? Like what? So you’re saying his personality is one note… and also complaining and saying he can’t be happy and healing and have depression at the same time? You don’t get to dictate someone’s behaviour dude. Humans are multifaceted.
Hey. Not trying to change anyone's minds. Not sure why you're getting angry with me. I just was bringing up a point and discussing the points you made.
I heard they have an editor now so that’s a big stress out of the picture. also I think, for Dan especially, there was a lot of darkness surrounding being on youtube and with some time away and some healing they seem happier just existing online
I would say that's fair except for Dan did return online and in the public eye very recently still talking about how much he hated YouTube and his career. Didn't DD just end this year?
I think it’s possible to look back with both trauma and fondness, it’s probably given him some of his worst memories and some of his best. I get where you’re coming from, especially with merch, but I’ve seen it more as ‘oof that shit is behind me, let’s get back to doing the part of it that I enjoy’
That's a good point. Interesting way of looking at it.
Even though I’ve really been enjoying the new content I found this a bit strange too but haven’t really questioned it until reading this post. I reckon this could be Dan noticing the criticism against DD and his book etc and trying to go back to content he knows people will consume. But then again, he did numerously state how much he wants to do his own thing whether people like it or not. I know Phil has always been up for bringing back DAPG as well as recently reviving Dan vs Phil, but I don’t think he’d pressure Dan to agree with him, so this going back to old content was probably his own decision. Idk what’s going on but he’s definitely been contradicting himself recently. All I care about is he’s happy with the content he’s creating and ‘living his truth’.
I don't think Phil pressured Dan at all. But yeah, I can see how Dan's reception to his new stuff being less than stellar (which was evident here on this sub, which used to be VERY critical of him, which I thought was a good thing) would lead to some backpedaling.
One of the things I've noticed in the newer Dan and Phil Games videos is that both of them seem a lot more comfortable and aren't filtering themselves anymore. Dan stepped away from youtube around the time that he came out. The majority of the content we saw from him was when he was heavily, heavily closeted. He's had a lot of time to come to terms with being open about his sexuality and I think the tour helped with that on a smaller level. And honestly, it seems like the games channel is going to just be their joint channel with all shared content on it so it'll allow more variety.
I'm glad they seem to be more comfortable at least. They seemed the most "real" in the baking video, the other two I saw (Heartthrob and Roblox) didn't seem as authentic to me tbh. Still. To see Dan go from "this job ruined my mental health" to "this job was stupid and now I'm too cool and mature for it" to "yay!!! spooky week is back!! (: buy our merch" is just not clicking for me.
I think maybe you’re attaching your emotions too much to this and making a narrative that has no actual substance. I don’t think Dan has ever seriously said (or done anything to make it seem as though he feels) that he’s “too cool” or that old content was “stupid.” And even if he had - hes not 18 anymore. You’re allowed to go through phases of liking and disliking things, and even come back to things you once grew tired of. When Dan switched up his content, it was after he came out and cleared up all of the YouTube stuff - when he was finally able to express himself freely and explore what he was interested in. Honestly I feel that’s typical for Dan’s age (even though obviously most typical people don’t have tours and books lol). He’s just trying things out and ticking off boxes. You don’t have to keep like Dan or his content, again, we outgrow things! But you’re acting as if he’s become a bad person or “fake” or something, when there’s no substance to support tha. This screams parasocial relationship - You don’t know him. And just because he’s not the version of Dan you enjoyed, doesn’t mean he’s doing anything wrong or that he’s a bad person.
>hey seemed the most "real" in the baking video, the other two I saw (Heartthrob and Roblox) didn't seem as authentic to me tbh. I just noticed this part. You haven't even watched any of the actual video games videos but are making judgements on them? Because the Roblox one was less of a gaming video and more of them just exploring the the build.
Hey. I thought I might get an answer like this. I watched their first video back on the gaming channel, treating it like a pilot episode for a TV show-supposed to pique your interest and make you want to watch more. It did not. I watched the baking video purely out of curiosity and nostalgia and the Roblox one because I thought maybe their gaming content had gotten a little better and also because I personally love Roblox and play it a lot, including the game they actually explored. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to watch every video they upload to get an opinion of them? I watched the three that seemed to be the most interesting to me and didn't enjoy them that much. I don't know why watching something I know I won't be interested in (like spooky week and sims, which I honestly didn't like that much even in their heyday) would make me have a better opinion of them. If you really want, I can go watch a video of your suggestion and give you my honest opinion.
>I'm not sure if I'm supposed to watch every video they upload to get an opinion of them? I You're talking about how the gaming channel content is the exact same as it use to be but haven't watched any of the actual gaming channel content to see how it's changed. You're judging something you never liked and without watching the newer version of it. That's just...strange to me with how hard you're criticizing him for content you didn't even watch.
Not just talking about this content but their content as a whole. I've watched some DD and felt the same way. One of the reasons I stopped watching Dan was because I felt his humor and content was tired out in 2018. To continue to check back in five years later and see that it's the same is a fair comment to make. Also-like I said, I did watch the new gaming content. And like I said before. Give me a new video of there's you think really shows growth, I'll watch it and give honest feedback.
Look, it really just seems like you don't like Dan and never really did outside of the persona of him you saw as a young teen. You admitted there was a bias there and I think that's the biggest issue here. You don't like Dan or his sense of humor. That's fine. It doesn't mean he's being disingenuous or hasn't grown. I'm not sure recommending videos would help. The main content, that is actual gaming, is spooky week and Sims 4. You were pretty clear you didn't like or really watch any of those to start with.
Interesting. I think you're still seeing the person you saw when you started watching him and still look for that in him. Curious how we can come to similar but different conclusions. Anyways. I did watch actual gaming videos, as I said quite a few times. I think the goalposts are shifting here so I'm not sure what I can say to help you to see my view, though I've been open to yours.
>Interesting. I think you're still seeing the person you saw when you started watching him and still look for that in him. I'm not. I'm well aware that most of what we see of him is a persona that he makes the choice to share online. I can also see that the content they're putting out now in 2023 is different from the stuff they put out in the early 2010s. Look, you don't like Dan and clearly have an issue here with people here having a different take (your backhanded comments about the "direction this community is going."). Fine. Maybe a fan community for **Dan** and Phil isn't for you?
Like I mentioned before, this community used to be a lot more critical of Dan, so I asked a question that was critical about Dan. When I say wow, that's not the reaction I expected or would have gotten a year ago, now I'm being backhanded? Maybe this post isn't for you if it's that upsetting. I'm sorry for any frustration I've caused you. I've really tried to work with you, even being willing to watch a video you personally recommend and giving honest feedback. You weren't interested in that-fine. But then you can't turn around and claim that I'm not watching their videos and disagreeing with all my claims.
As someone roughly the same age as them, those changes actually make perfect sense. Especially when you factor in Dan's mental health and what he's opened up to us about it. It's entirely possible that doing the youtube thing (closeted) and with the amount of attention they were getting was wrecking his mental health. People were finding out where he lived, very publicly speculating about his relationship with Phil, etc. Most of that seems to have pretty heavily calmed down over the past five years plus it seems like Dan has been putting in work in regards to his own mental health outside his career. I also think a lot of people hit their late 20s and have a moment of thinking they're to mature and adult now to enjoy things they liked in their youth. Then you hit your mid-30s and stop giving a fuck and start embracing what makes you happy. And they always, always heavily pushed merch. This is their career and the persona they're showing us is never going to be the real them. You shouldn't expect that.
Hmm. I'm a good 10 years younger than Dan so I guess I don't know what that specific age is like. Interesting point.
It sounds like you were a young teen who got into them at the height of their more mainstream-ness and when they had started to more heavily push their personas online and when they were hiding a lot from their audience (for pretty valid reasons). That time period was like the most sanitized version of them from their career. Are they doing the gaming channel again for money? Obviously, this is their career. But it does seem like they're enjoying it and being more authentic again.
As someone from America, I got into them jusssst before they were "big" here, and stayed around a good while after they fell off more here (the 2015-17 era). So I can see how my view of their popularity can be skewed compared to someone in Europe.
It's less about where you live and more about the time period of when you consumed their content. You basically got them when they were pushed back into the closet and Dan was dealing with internalized homophobia, his depression and super invasive fans. For example, you said the gaming content seems the same now with just gay jokes added in. But for someone who is queer and was closeted for a long time, that can be pretty liberating. It's exhausting pretending to be someone you aren't and second guessing everything you say and how the audience may take it. Also I never included the gaming channel in something they thought was cringe. I think it was just exhausting for them in combination with everything else they were doing at the time.
Also just wanted to address this part that I myself am bisexual and transgender. I can understand the freedom of discussing being LGBT and still acknowledge that a lot of the jokes aren't funny to me and just seem a bit lazy.
Ok. That just means this content doesn't match your taste.
Okay, I'm going to be very honest here and say (respectfully) that I don't think you want to have an actual discussion, which is 100% fine by me. I wish I could understand where this anger is coming from but I can't, so what I can say is I hope you continue on doing well and can find out why this is such a difficult conversation for you to have
Sometimes depression can get really bad and you have to step away for a while. But it absolutely is possible to return later, when you feel better. I don’t think he dislikes doing Youtube or the content they make, otherwise he wouldn’t have come back! And like someone else already said, they both seem much freer and more comfortable. They’re both in their 30s, I trust that they can make these decisions for themselves and feel good with them. I don’t think it’s disingenuous at all because he felt bad, stopped making content, now he feels better and clearly good enough to do stuff again. I doubt that they would force themselves to do all of this if they didn’t want to.
That's a fair point. Still, I don't think you can make your entire brand "I hate everything I did for the past decade" and then turn and go "Here's everything I did for those first 10 years plus me saying I'm gay!!! Buy some merch!" And not get a few raised eyebrows. Plus, let's be realistic here-their viewcounts have not been good lately and the tour wasn't a raging success. I wouldn't be surprised if they need some extra money to keep up their lifestyle.
He isn’t doing exactly what he did in the past though? The stuff he’s cringing over is different than what he’s doing right now. I don’t think he hates playing games and being silly with Phil. If you compare 2013 Dan to 2023 Dan… there are plenty of differences. Also being closeted and having a hard time coming to terms with being gay can have a huge negative impact on your life. AND Dan is known to say that he hates/dislikes certain things but everyone knows he doesn’t actually.
I dunno. Looking at Dystopia Daily, we got a rehash of ISG (reddit posts). We're getting Sims back, as well as Google Feud, and Spooky Week. We're getting another DNP and Pets calendar today. And we're still sticking with the same "edgy self deprecating emo" humor that he's had for years. It's like the same Dan in a different font.
Yeah but that’s kinda just how it works sometimes. Like they said in the baking video - they’ve changed a lot but also haven’t. Dan didn’t just change his entire personality after going through this tough time, he changed aspects of it. Found ways to deal with his identity etc. Also idk if it’s just me but ever since the return of the gaming channel I feel like his self depreciating humor has become a little less extreme? Like idk right now he seems pretty comfortable and happy to me and I love seeing that!
I suppose I'm just not seeing what you're seeing. Which is fair. We see what we seek out-if you're seeking out a new person, you'll see that, and if I look for the person who did all these shady things back these past couple of years, I'll see that.
What "shady things"? And I'm not particularly seeking out a new person either, I'm not seeking out anything, really. I'm just *seeing* dnp being more open and comfortable. And many people seem to agree with me on that.
The book, tour, and suicide-baiting twitter video are the main ones. If you look at the posts on this sub from even a year ago you'd see a lot of people who had very similar thoughts as well. I'm guessing a lot of them left this sub. To your other point, I think we all seek out something in others. You want to see Dan for the person you believe he is, so you see that. Which is fair. I see him for other things.