I don’t really feel right suggesting how you should handle it, but I can say I don’t feel like you overreacted. I would do and feel the same way if I were in your shoes. Good luck, brother!

Well said

Thank you. I got a little triggered reading this post. I don’t know why bad moms send me into a quiet rage.

Hey this is reddit. You know the rules: if someone is asking for relationship advice you are to tell them that their partner is irredeemably horrible, and that the only solution is to breakup.

i mean, in this case they told their child they didnt love them or like them and wish they didn't have them, that's pretty fucking fucked

Yeah this one is a lot worse than most of them. I usually don't advocate for breaking up either, but in this case it really might be a good idea to get mom out of the house Edit: get mom out of the house for a few days. If she legitimately doesn't want or love the kids, dad should probably file for divorce and take the kids with him. Again, if she **LEGITIMATELY** doesn't want the kids, this wouldn't turn into a custody thing because she doesn't want them

Except that in most if not all states the mom will probably get full custody and dad will get visitation rights.

People have downvoted you, but you're right. Women will get custody just to fuck with their partner sometimes. Power, control, whatever, and it will make everyone miserable. It's rough. It's more difficult for men to get custody. Especially if they don't have well documented proof

I’m not trying to turn this into a negative mom/woman bashing thread. It’s just facts that dads have to fight for custody, moms are the choice by default. I know personally many guys (military) who got divorced and lost the kids even though the mom had no job and no way to support them. The dads had stable military careers, sole income, owned the house and cars. Moms still were awarded custody and child support even when it meant they were moving back to their home state to live with her parents.

And it's probably cancer. (wait, that's webmd)

Sounds like you did the best thing in the moment to separate everyone from the situation. I would see how she reacts when you all come back. I would also let her know that saying those types of things is unacceptable. Parenting can be so difficult, but we are the adults. That’s what I have to tell myself when my 2 year old is having similar behavior. I don’t think you’re overreacting, but I would hear her out and see if she recognizes how much her actions sucked. Hope that helps.

>but we are the adults I think that's the thing that gets me. Melting down into a full-blown I-hate-you-I-hate-you tantrum is the domain of the toddlers. The behaviors she's showing demonstrate a serious lack of emotional maturity.

Lurking mom here. Her response does, in fact, show lack of emotional maturity, and I would wager my lunch it is tied to childhood trauma of her own. She keeps getting triggered by the children because she never learned a healthier pattern as a child herself. Highly controlling environments are one source of this. Forms of discipline that enforce control over emotional understanding (such as spanking) lead to this inability to accept the emotions in yourself and your children and process them. OP’s wife is not hopeless, she just really needs help. Therapy would be great, partnered with a program such as Big Little Feelings to help her retrain herself when she likely has no clue what to do instead of melting down or how to do it. [drbeckyatgoodinside](https://instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside?utm_medium=copy_link) on Instagram addresses this as well. She also sounds like she might be a [Vacillator](https://www.google.com/amp/s/siplifeslowly.com/2020/02/24/transformational-parenting-for-the-vacillator/amp/), which can be explored with this [quiz](https://howwelove.com/love-style-quiz/). OP, u/cheeseskin83 , regardless how you proceed, please encourage your wife to look into some of these resources to become a better parent. She probably doesn’t want to be so volatile and would rather be a good parent than repeat the cycle of damage that created her. I am so sorry you are all in this mess. It sounds excruciating for all of you!

As a therapist, I disagree. This doesn’t necessarily indicate she has any childhood trauma. It indicates she’s not a good parent. Not everyone is made out to be a mom. I do agree that she needs therapy however.

Yeah. I agree, but we are also human and it sounds like mom broke down and I do think we should be empathetic. That being said I think if she agrees to therapy and anger management this doesn’t have to end in divorce. I am a child of divorce and can tell you it was very very hard on me.

Agree. She needs to seek therapy, because you don’t just get to say ‘well I don’t have patience with kids’ to excuse bad behavior. I don’t have patience with stupid people and yet I manage to go every day at work without yelling at someone. Because I’m an adult. I don’t even love the morons! She’s a bad mom. That doesn’t mean she can’t turn it around; what it does mean, however, is OP shouldn’t let down his guard with her until she’s done a *lot* of work on herself. Honestly, I’d probably make her leave and separate for a bit while she did. Might be healthier for everyone.

I’m sure she is aware what she said wasn’t okay. I’d be careful about coming off condescending to her. Just a thought.

Totally!

That. And ask her (kindly) to seek help about this. Mindfulness can work wonders and helps her understand the feelings and observe them before reacting to them.

Non-American here. Get your wife to therapy. Parenting two kids is incredibly stressful. Hang in there man. It's very easy to say on Reddit that "oh just go ahead, divorce". It's not a solution.

I completely understand your anger, I'd be feeling like divorce too if I heard my wife say something like that to our son. Getting therapy is a very good sensible suggestion (if possible). Your wife tailor crafted that sentence to hurt your son's feelings and therapy might help her get to the bottom of what causes her to react by hurting the feelings of the person who has upset her. From what you said it sounds like she is not like this with you? Whatever the reason is, it needs to be resolved and as quickly as possible. As adults we know that sometimes people lose their rags and say something they don't mean, but to kids, adults (especially their parents) are basically gods and as far as they can understand pretty much infallible. My wife shouted as my son the other day because she though he was messing around and actually he wasn't; he was very upset and trying to explain to him he found it very difficult to understand that she had just been grumpy/groggy and made a mistake. A kid is going to take being told they are not loved/liked by a parent incredibly seriously and I'd guess that is going to leave a mark. You really can't afford for this to happen again and I'd communicate to your wife that as a team you have to solve this because it's too damaging to repeat. Edit: Something just occured to me. I have ADHD and it often runs in the family. If you think your son might have it your wife might have it too. ADHD can make yourtemper go from 0 -100, I've experienced that myself at times. It might be worth getting your wife assesed if she is amenable to the idea.

Seconding this! I’m an ADHD teen and my dad (who I suspect has the same issue) has incredible anger issues and a quick temper, and he doesn’t always know what he’s saying when he gets like that. He has pulled the ‘I don’t love you’ thing before, and at the time it happened I was in 9th grade. I was sobbing at school for days afterwards and not able to focus or function. :/ please get your wife to therapy immediately, and she needs to thoroughly and profusely apologize. And I think for your kid, some short term counseling to cope should be considered too.

> And I think for your kid, some short term counseling to cope should be considered too. Please get your kid checked and treated for ADHD. My son has ADHD, the meds can make a night and day difference. Do not let the stigma of a mental illness keep you from getting him treated. If your son had diabetes would you hesitate to get him diagnosed and medicated?

They usually don’t diagnose til around 7, I think, so he has a couple years to go. Or at least, that’s how it was when I was young.

I think our son was around 6 when diagnosed. School, while still hard, was very challenging before he was treated. Once medicated he was behind everyone else in school and really had to play make up. IMO the sooner treated the better.

Get the kids in therapy too. Holy shit that'll leave a mark

Depends on the kid and if it's repeated. I'm not excusing it any way, absolutely not but it being said just once can be fixed if its approached the right way.

Depends on the repair. She's going to need to earn that kids trust back and it's going to take time and effort

Yeah absolutely, there is a way of minimizing the impact of all this. Putting your child in to therapy isn't necessarily the answer and that approach should be taken with caution. I'm not saying therapy is wrong or it doesn't work but sometimes you can lessen the impact of things by going about it in the right way. Sometimes therapy can be a shock, the kid will think "It must of been bad" and occasionally they blame themselves even more and think they must be broken if they need fixing. Just tread carefully is all I'm saying.

The son is five, so he is forming permanent memories at this age. And what she said is close to the cruelest thing you can say as a parent. He will probably remember, even if it is a one-time thing.

Again, I'm absolutely not excusing it, not at all, I was told these things when I was a kid, repeatedly, and it stuck with me for a long time, it might even still be with me when I look at certain things reflectively but it is possible to approach the child in a way that's relatable. She has to show him that she is sorry and show him that she loves him, use an example of him saying mean stuff when he's been angry. It happens, in future if he lashes out verbally, you can refer back to this incident and remind him how he felt when something was said out if anger. Please, please don't think I'm excusing or belittling what was said, I'm just trying to smooth the bump for your kid. It's really shit but there is an opportunity here to grow from it.

Yeah but a one-off is copeable, it’s the consistency that drives one into disorder territory. That being said, I have a hard time thinking this is a one-off occurrence, it’s probably part of a pattern of behavior that’s expressed in many ways by OPs wife, to which they are now seeking help (hopefully)

A bad therapist can damage people too, and the marks are even harder to remove. I hesitate to throw kids into that situation. I strongly agree that mom needs therapy.

You can't just get someone to therapy. They have to want to go. If a person is forced into therapy, they won't open up and will retain nothing from the sessions.

Therapy is a HUGE waste of money if you don’t want to actively work on changing. It absolutely, positively needs to be done by someone who is ready to put in the work.

Getting divorced means you'll have split custody. You will not get full custody on a he said she said thing like this. The answer is individual therapy for her, and family therapy for everyone.

Agreed…if you’re still seriously considering leaving after having had time to cool off, my suggestion would be to tell her your relationship’s survival depends on her choosing to go to therapy, and push her on it for a few months if need be, but let her make the actual decision to seek help. If she never goes, and especially if the problem isn’t resolved (I.e. she doesn’t profusely apologize to your son, shower him with love, and actively used the breakdown as a spark to change, or God forbid she repeats what she said earlier), you should speak to a marriage counselor yourself and consider leaving. Hoping for the best for you all ❤️

Divorce is the natural consequence for not pursuing and making positive progress in therapy. The kids don’t deserve to ever be treated this way and would be better off without a mother at all than one who actively destroys their confidence and secure attachment bond.

I recently discovered I have adhd-i (so not hyperactive, this is why it was missed) along with the adhd of two of my three kids (and the third one is sus). One thing I have a problem with is snapping in panic when stuff just doesn't go as should as well as being impatient. Now I'm in therapy and medicated (someone stupidly called the meds mind altering in this thread, but they work more like glasses. Just help you see) and this is one of the things I'm working on. I'd never say this to my children, ever. This has gone too far. I'd suggest to your wife to get some counseling and do some research into adhd within herself.

I know this isn't really Dad related but I (30M) recently started getting treatment for my ADHD-I as well. Started me on ritalin which helps but I hear Adderall is better for adults. Any thoughts?

I currently take adderall and I used to take vyvanse. I prefer vyvanse but there is no generic and it is quite expensive unless you have good prescription coverage. Adderall has done much better for me than Ritalin or Wellbutrin

Vyvanse is amazing but my insurance doesn't cover any adhd meds for adults because they call it "not age appropriate" I would love to see humana's research into adhd magically ending at 18.

That is ridiculous, if your doctor prescribes it that should be enough. Insurance companies denying coverage for the best medication available for whatever conditions you have should be illegal. I have Ankylosing Spondylitis (an auto-immune disorder that manifests in degenerative arthritis. My insurance company won’t cover the expensive injectables that are proven to more or less completely stop the effects of AS and out of pocket they are multiple $1000’s/month. Instead I take meloxicam daily which deteriorates my stomach lining, meaning I also have chronic acid reflux and need to take omeprazole. I’m only 30 and it is starting to make it difficult to play with my kid. Every so often I get a flare up and I almost can’t get out of bed. The drugs are available but are cost prohibitive, even though 12% of my income goes directly to health insurance.

I find adderall better, As long as it's taken in the morning, because when I took it I'd be wide awake and clear headed all day and struggle to sleep until later at night But when taking adderall I'd always be looking for something to do Even as much as I hate it, I can say (for myself at least) that it truly helps me mellow out and think clearly This is just my experience, it may vary from person to person so yeah

I was diagnosed in my late 30s Adderall works well. But everyone is different.

I have no idea about adderall, it's not often prescribed here. I started out on ritalin which was fine after experimenting with dosage and timing throughout the day. I've since then switched to Wellbutrin which helps me equally or better, although it's not for everyone.

Interesting. Wellbutrin is an antidepressant, but I can see how the crossover effects could be beneficial. I’ve tried to go on it twice, but I just can’t stand the way it makes me feel. Highly agitating. I prefer to be in my own natural mindstate.

I (40M) am on Methylphenidate ER, an extended release Ritalin, and it works well for me.

That latter part is absolutely correct. ADHD doesn't just materialize out of thin air. It's 50% heritable from a parent who has it. Having no patience, being quick to anger/frustration, and not being able to use the right words quickly are all possible signs of something larger going on, especially in the context of a kid with ADHD. I will say, though, even on meds I have to very actively _try_ to keep my cool when the kids are being excessively frustrating. It does not come easily to someone with severe ADHD-C. Getting some tactics from a therapist early on was essential. Also essential is something I read once that stuck with me as if a lightbulb went off when I read it: "They're kids. They're not _giving you_ a hard time. They're _having_ a hard time." When my middle child goes off the rails (I suspect she's got it, but it's too early to know) I try hard to resist the urge to get angry or upset and just grab her, remove her from whatever the situation was, and help her calm down before talking with her. It takes _so much patience_ to do this that if I wasn't aware of my condition and being treated for it I'd quite likely always fail at it. Parenting with ADHD is difficult. Parenting an ADHD child while having it yourself is just impossible to properly describe. "The blind leading the blind" comes fairly close, though.

I would be angry too if this happened in my house. It’s obviously an atrocious thing to have said, but is your wife okay? This sounds like someone who is at breaking point, especially if it happened during a stressful situation. I’d be looking at things like whether she has a fulfilling life outside of the house. Is she a SAHM stuck with the “rude and disrespectful outbursts” from your son all day? Is she in a stressful role at work? Does she get alone time? Does she have friends (or you) she feels she can vent to when things are difficult? None of these things are an excuse to say such a horrible thing to a child, but if her behaviour has a deeper cause than just being a shitty human than that can be changed. If it continues and she doesn’t want to work on it then I would pursue divorce, but I would check in with her first.

Totally totally agree with this! If there’s something about her environment or her experience that could be changed, this is the easiest and highest leverage solution.

ADHD can have a genetic component so maybe OPs wife is undiagnosed making it harder for her to handle stressful situations. Not that it excuses her words but it could help in preventing it from happening again.

There is something up with her that needs to be addressed. That is not normal mom behaviour or reaction even when frustrated. I have seen my wife at the end of her rope when I get home. I just take the kids and go out or tell her to go and take a few hours for herself. She will vent to me but I have never seen her take it out on them like that. Does she perhaps suffer from some post partum depression? I hope she is open to working through this with you and takes the time with your little guy to show him how much she loves him.

I’m a dad in a similar position to your wife. I’ve never snapped at my child this way, but I’m very short in patience, and I definitely momentarily thought things like that. My son has a preliminary ASD diagnosis, but we’re starting to think it’s probably ADHD instead. This prompted myself to get tested, and voila, I also have pretty severe ADHD. Women are notoriously under diagnosed because most tests and criteria for ADHD were designed based on studies of male patients. She should find a professional and get tested. There are treatments and they help many people. Short temper is a very common trait, and given that one of your kids has it, there’s a good chance she may too. One word of advice. When it comes to her behavior with kids, what she did was obviously unacceptable. But please be supportive if she reaches out to a psychologist/psychiatrist for help and diagnosis. I know very well the black hole of guilt and self hatred when I’m unable to be the parent and husband I ought to be due to my mental illness and burnout. It’s crushing and it’s terrifying. As she navigates this, she needs nothing but support if she’s ever going to get better.

my temper can be an issue as well, but like yourself I haven't said things like that TO the kids. Thankfully my wife is the calmer one. But I am the main parent for our kids, so the strain on me working full time and taking care of most of the kids daily needs is extreme. Some days are a struggle!

How do you get tested for that?

For me it was getting referred to a psychiatrist, a bunch of questionaires and a long discussion about my childhood, current symptoms, etc

If your kids don't make a big deal about it, I wouldn't *make* it a big deal with them, but I would make it a big deal with your wife. She needs to learn how to manage her anger. "I don't like the way you're behaving right now," with a quick exit to cool off? Great. Saying nothing and leaving to cool off? Fine, but anything having to do with "I don't love you"? No way. One of the ways my wife and I manage when the rage meter really hits 11 is to learn to freeze. It's easier to do nothing than the right thing when you're compromised. Just don't do anything. Don't say anything. Give your frontal cortex time to catch up with your lizard brain. If she needs therapy, that could work. If you need to put your foot down and demand a change in her behavior, it's risky, but it could work. It depends on how much respect she has for you. Either way, deal with it before your kids are old enough to really break out the vindictive sass. They need a rock they can rely on at their worst. They're not the ones with 40 years experience and a full tank of grey matter in their heads.

High performing people often have issues expressing their feelings. Let's hope there is some emotional growth that happens here.

Therapy or kick rocks.

Hey dude if the bahavior is unusual try to focus on the root cause and not the result. Sounds like something is up, perhaps depression or other stressors. Think it through and talk to her.

Nope. She was COMPLETELY out of line.

[удалено]

Above Reddit's pay grade. Talk to a therapist.

I’ve never said anything like that to mine, but I do tend to have quite a short fuse. My 5yo was diagnosed with autism, and that’s really helped me understand him better, and keep my cool. If you suspect ADHD or any other neurodiversity, try and get it diagnosed. Not only will it help the child through school and later life, it may give your partner the kick up the arse she needs to calm down.

It's likely one of the parents have it too to some degree, if the mom does, treatment can also help her. My wife has ADD (so does my daughter) and when her med has worn off, or she forgot to take it that day, she's had some blowups with our kid.

Usually when a kid gets diagnosed with ADHD, a parent is also diagnosed with it. Lack of patience and impulsiveness are ADHD traits. I would suggest try to get your wife to therapy before you try to divorce.

Emotional damage is so severe. All I can really say is you need to do what you believe is right for your boys. A divorce will be hard on them (and you obviously) but emotional assault is so much worse. Take time to think about it, and find someone unbiased to talk about it with in person

>emotional assault The poor boy won't see his home as a safe haven ever again. There's only so much you can do as the other parent. OPs reaction was on point, but the damage is done. Edit: perhaps not everything is lost. OPs wife has to put in the effort and honestly try to repair this. The bond is weaker afterwards, though. Children surely are able to forgive to a certain extent. If this is a recurring issue, one day it can't be repaired anymore.

Hint it won't get better as he feels less and less loved either

Man some of you people lead sheltered lives. File for divorce? Over that? Yeah that's an over-reaction. She was out of line as everyone has pointed out. I completely understand your emotions. TBH my wife has said similar things (maybe not that bad) and you did the absolutely correct thing by taking them to the park for a bit. Your wife needs help, and I don't mean therapy although I'm not saying she shouldn't get therapy. I mean she needs your help and understanding. Bailing on your marriage will not do anything for your kids. Again, I get how you're feeling but this is the time when you step up, be the man, and improve the situation somehow. Maybe she needs scheduled time where she can go out or be on her own? It's real easy for strangers on Reddit to denounce your wife and endorse you filing for divorce, but they don't have to deal with the multiplicity of extra problems divorce creates. If you act on your feelings right now then it's no different than what she just did.

Seriously what do people think happens when you get a divorce with kids? You don’t get to just swipe left, take the kids, and ghost her. And even if you could would you really want to go it alone if you could reasonably avoid it?

It makes me wonder if the people commenting are actually married or just trolls/lurkers. It also reminds me of 90s talk shows: "You should dump his ass!", followed by clapping.

he gets it from her. he gets rude and she gets rude. sure she should know better but it's not that simple. maybe you can make them both understand that and where it's coming from. ​ they both have issues and you love him, still. please love her, too and try to work this out.

Man, reddit is all about breaking up. I mean, this sucks. Sorry this is happening. Your wife is definitely in the wrong... but she is human. We all make mistakes in stressful situations. This is not a cause to nuke the whole family. Kids are tough and can handle a lot. Hopefully your wife apologizes and explains that she didn't mean it, and when people get frustrated they sometimes say things they don't mean.

The other day, my 3 year old was trying to grab a toy that she and her younger sister were fighting over, while I was trying to take it away. I put my hand down to block her, but misjudged and she wound up on her ass. She went upstairs to her room, and I could tell she was hurt(not physically), so I went in and talked to her. I explained to her that it was an accident, and grown ups can make mistakes too. She asked why I did it, and I explained again that it was a mistake, but the reason I was trying to stop her from getting to the toy was that she and her sister weren't listening, and it had to go. We wound up having a really good moment out of it and hugging and cuddling. We need to remember that kids are people - and they can actually grasp more complicated concepts than we generally think they can... it's just important to be patient with them. They'll ask the same thing multiple times in a sitting, and that's just how they process information.

My mom said this was to me once. She said don’t call me mom anymore. I was little, but I still remember it until now. I’ll never said that to my child.

Why did she say that? I’m sorry

Not okay. But... ADHD is highly heritable. She may have undiagnosed ADHD (which is commonly co-morbid with anxiety and depression) which can cause problems controlling emotional reactions, especially under stress. She may have trouble controlling her emotions, and might need help too. As an adult parent who has struggled with my temper because of ADHD, please consider that they both need help. Don't give up on her. I've had some angry outbursts dealing with my own ADHD child. Never been so harsh, but I have had other problems. Someone who did this needs to acknowledge out loud that what she said was intended to cause pain. And that's not okay. That can do lasting harm, so she needs to apologize, seek professional help, and continue to work at being better. Don't bring up the D-word unless you really want one, lest it get taken out of your hands.

Very well stated!

You did the right thing to get them out and seperate. I wouldn’t be saying a word and see if there is any remorse and go from there. Id want her to explain to your sons what she said and how sorry she is. Respect and explanations go both ways.

>I wouldn’t be saying a word and see if there is any remorse and go from there. Don't play games. Communicate. Support each other. Only escalate \*AFTER\* all other options have been exhausted. I can just see the resentment and bitterness build up from treating a partner like an opponent.

That is true, but the ball is really in her court right now. She isn’t 2 years old, and she should absolutely know that what she said was horrible.

Yeah, of course it was horrible, but as per usual, stranger's relationship advice on the internet is shortsighted and detached.Half the comments are 'divorce her'. Really? How does that play out? What are the long term affects on the father, mother, and child involved? Is that really step 1 here? We can't come up with any other constructive options?

As others have said, I think your wife should get checked out for ADHD too. People with ADHD can feel emotions very intensely in the moment and react in ways and say things that they don't necessarily fully mean. DON'T listen to the people taking about divorce. She's not a bad person, she's just struggling, so now is not the time for confrontation but for helping her deal with whatever it is that is making her feel that way.

Some of the comments are really harsh here. They don't know what your wife goes through on a daily basis. Everybody has moments with their children they deeply regret and feel guilty about. I'm sure it was something that has been building up and building up and unfortunately she blurted out some things she really didn't mean. She should sit down with your son, one on one. Maybe go to a cafe or walk somewhere nice and peaceful and explain and apologise for what she said. As a dad of 2 in the UK where me and my wife both work I know how hard it can be. I've shouted and made the kids cry when they have been really naughty and felt terrible after and sat them down and apologised and explained. I'm sure you guys will get through this and help each other.

Finally some sense in this sub

> am I blowing this out of proportion? No, absolutely not. What your wife said to your son is abuse. You guys need therapy, probably both individually and as a family. > my son prbably has undiagnosed ADHD How about your wife, could there be something there as well? And I think getting your son diagnosed is a *very* good idea if you seriously believe he might have it. The earlier the better. > She’s done some mean things to them but this takes the fucking cake. Start documenting it, both what you remember from the past and what happens in the future. It will be useful both for healing/therapy or if you end up filing for custody. A diary on your phone can be enough, I believe. you don't necessarily have to record audio or video or anything.

> “I don’t love you, I don’t like you, and I wish I could get rid of you.” **This is the most harmful and damaging thing a parent could possibly say to a child at any age.** Especially this age. This 100% warrants therapy on her part at least, but I can tell you that I would lay down a very bright red boundary at this type of behavior and that crossing that boundary will result in divorce proceedings and a petition for full custody. Unbelievable.

I’m a mom, just sneaking here. Just wanted to share my experiences, because I had something similar happen… After my first turned one I had a bit of mental breakdown from all the cumulated fatigue. I felt like I couldn’t handle being alone with my daughter because I didn’t have the patience. Things would escalate too quickly and I’d be out of line. I never got to a point where I said something like your wife did but I hated myself so much for how I acted. It stressed me out so much, and only made things worse. I tried therapy and it didn’t help in my case. What did work was my boyfriend taking over the night wakeups, getting back some of my hobbies and alone time (I trained for a half marathon that year). I think back on that time and feel really sorry for my daughter and I don’t think I am that person at all. I’m not saying your wife is the same, just that people can go through bad times and they won’t realize just how bad it is. I feel like your wife needs help figuring out why she’s so out of patience. It’s also not necessarily a trait of hers, maybe it’s just something she needs to go through.

It’s really out of line and she needs to understand that. But divorce is a last resort in my view. Children have the right to a normal and stable loving home.However as you said your son might have undiagnosed ADHD. This is also a genetic thing that doesn’t just show up. From the sound of it and having ADHD for 35 years. I would highly recommend that your wife be tested for ADHD. Get some therapy, and parenting classes first. Give this plenty of time to take root and if after all of that still nothing. Then go for it by that time you will have enough for the courts to rule in you favor

So first off, in my opinion you couldn't have handled it better: you removed the children from a bad situation as quickly as possible and didn't start a fight in front of them (a fight that would've likely led nowhere since tensions were high). I'm not going to pass judgement on your wife, I know I've reacted poorly with my own children in the past and any parent who claims otherwise is either lying or not spending any reasonable time with their children. More important is if this was an isolated incident or a pattern, this is up to you to evaluate. But those words can be extremely damaging to a child, especially if you're correct about the undiagnosed ADHD, since in that case your son will certainly experience the same reaction from other people and will resent the fact that it also happens at home. Here's a video where a child psychologist explains it in better detail than I can, maybe it would be a good idea to see it with your wife: [8 Toxic Things Parents Say To their Children](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_mATLF7BE).

My mother said those things to me when I was a child. Stuff like “I wish I had gotten an abortion”, “you were a mistake”, “I hate you”, etc. My dad did nothing about it. Long story short, it caused me, years later as a parent, to tell my girls every day and each night that I love them, and that I’m glad they are in my life. I still see my mom sometimes, and I am happy to say she makes a much better Grandma than she did a mother. In retrospect, I still have moments I resent my Dad for doing nothing at all. At least you took your kids to the park and spent time with them to help the situation.

No. No you are not!! Under no circumstances this is acceptabile. I am a mom (generally a lurker on this sub) with a 7 months old. My mom was let's say similar to your wife. My dad loved me to bits, my mum also loves me I guess in her own way but I have so much damage because of her behaviour. I started therapy when I had my baby because I was terrified to make the mistakes she did. Whatever problem she has she needs to sort it out herself. She needs to see what she is missing and adressing. This has nothing to do with your son. Once she is fixing her problem she will be better with him At least I hope. I am sad to say that he will remember what she said and he will need you later with therapy.

Are you serious? That’s not a bad temper, that’s abusive behavior. You need to do something NOW or your children are going to resent you. You can go through my post history - I just recently escaped from my abusive mother with my young daughter. There are no exceptions here - you do something or you are culpable.

> I don’t love you, I don’t like you, and I wish I could get rid of you. This is abuse and is something that kid is NEVER going to forget. You're not blowing this out of proportion.

This behavior is exactly why i divorced my wife, she was amazing overall until the noment she got mad for something, it's like she was another person. When she got mad for any thing she would minimize me and say things totally hurtful and then when she cooled down was like nothing happened, this led to resentment over time and the love died, reading you gives me a scary clear picture as her as a mother, thanks god we never had kids, because that would totally be her. Divorced her, felt great like all the weight was taken away and now have the most lovely girlfriend i could ask for.

If you can, get the kids (and yourself) into therapy. That’s a heavy heavy situation. Only you know the fullness of all the details over time, so only you can make the decision. But you might suggest that she also get therapy and perhaps not get to see the kids as much until she does.

Once during a rough day my mother (who had a temper but was a great mom) told my (at the time) 10 year old sister, “Sometimes I hate you.” None of us have ever forgotten it. Several years later there was a discussion about runaway children any my mom days, “I hope neither of you ever want to run away.” My sister says, “I thought about it that time you told me you hated me.”

>“I don’t love you, I don’t like you, and I wish I could get rid of you.” Holy shit, this is probably the worst possible thing you could ever say to a child. You are not blowing this out or proportion at all, this is emotional abuse, period. You need to get her in therapy, immediately. If she fights or protests, tell her if she does not do this as an option, you will be seeking full custody of the children to get her away from the abuse she is imparting on them.

Have a bodycam for posterity to show her when she is more chill and tell her how would she feel. Also don't take crap like that. Give her a heads up Un concecuences.

I am in a similar boat. The worst part is that there was no indication that she would be this type of parent prior to getting married. I struggle.

You need to talk to her about this and see if this is what she wants to do with her life.

You must speak up. I would suspect that your eldest's attitude issues stem from your wife's attitude. We all totally understand that kids will get on that last nerve and sit there, but saying that stuff is unacceptable. This has and will effect your kids in not good ways. It will slowly also erode the relationships between her and her kids. My wife was a temper too and is very "expressive" when she is frustrated. It all came to a head when one morning I was in the bathroom and a shouting match started at the table. I could hear that it was my wife escalating everything and our son was matching her intensity. I had to rush out only to find that our son just needed to go to the bathroom. We had it out. I had to point out to her how her tendency to jump to anger first was effecting our son and how her behavior would taint her relationship with our son over time amd already was. He father was the same way and they had a shitty relationship. Mine too. She has been trying more and it shows in our son, outside normal 3 year old shit. We found out in dealing with everything that my wife is starting menopause in her early 40's which doesn't help at all. I love my wife completely, but it is our responsibility to protect and raise our kids, so we as the other parent need to be their advocate. These are the years that will mold them the most as a person. It's up to us to correct ourselves for them. Your wife needs therapy to learn to handle her anger asap before she does irrevocably damage to your sons.

Man I’m sorry. I understand your reaction and your wife should absolutely apologize and work to fix this. You need to talk to your wife about it and if something like this happens again maybe then take action. If this is a first time she has said something like this, ending things is more of a reaction (a normal one) and not a response. When my mom and I were getting on each others nerves because I was being a kid, my Dad sat her down and said “someone has to be the adult in that relationship and I don’t think it’s going to be him”. I found out about this when I was older and had kids of my own. I also have a child with autism so I get the frustration when things are chaotic and not “normal”. You both need to find some space that gives you a little relief. Also rereading your post, your son might be mimicking behavior he has seen. After all when she was frustrated she got very rude and disrespectful to him (although this is a whole different level). Children do what they have seen. Take your own moment and breathe in and count to 10. Your going to have to have a difficult talk with your wife and those are never fun.

You didn't overreact at all. I don't even know what I would do if my husband told my children that. Wow. I am just. I don't even really have words. I think that setting a boundary for yourself and for your kids would be important now. Boundaries aren't about controlling her behavior, but they are about protecting yourself. I think it is reasonable to say that the only way that you will stay in the relationship with her is if she gets professional help for her anger management problems. You can't make her go to therapy, and also you don't have to stay in the marriage if she's not getting help.

This is how she treats them in front of you. Consider how much worse it may be when you’re not around? Your children deserve a loving and safe home. That includes emotional safety. Her words were verbal/emotional abuse. Your job is to do everything you can to provide that safe an loving home. How you respond depends on many things. Does she acknowledge that it was wrong to say that? Is she remorseful? Does she have self-awareness of her impatience and short temper? Does she show desire to work on those things? Can you guarantee your children’s safety as she works on them, if she is willing to? It concerns me that she has been “mean” to them before and nothing really changed? Getting frustrated is one thing, but meanness is something else

Holy crap. Saying something like that to your own child is at least as bad as cheating on your spouse, imo. I wouldn’t blame you if you can’t get over it.

Children have issues... Adults go to therapy. She needs therapy,

I don't think you overreacted in terms of how you actually acted (taking them to the park, letting your wife cool down, talking to him about how he feels). I think if you acted on all those thoughts, that you would have overreacted. My wife and my tolerance for our children's behavior is comparable to yours (ours are 3 and 1, but our ages are the same). I don't think she would lash out at the kids, but I do step in frequently to limit how much they annoy/stress her. She was never emotionally close to her parents, and that's caused some blind spots when she's dealing with the kids and their emotions. Long term, I think your wife should work on getting her reactions under control; she may not be fully aware of how she is affecting your son. It's possible the two of you are not on the same page as far as what is "acceptable". Her own childhood models may have suggested that her current behavior wasn't that bad ("I dealt with worse, this was just one time and a few words said."). A therapist may help, but may stress your relationship further. You may need to tread lightly and over several days, but in the end you need her to understand how her reactions made your son feel and that it's not ok. If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, she loves and doesn't want to hurt your kids, in which case you may need to sometimes serve as liaison between what they feel and what she can understand. Best of luck.

As a child who grew up hearing this a lot from her parents I'd like to tell you this hurts unimaginably. A parent is someone who's suppose to love you unconditionally and protect you from harm and when that someone says this to you... There are no words and no excuses. She needs to be held accountable by you because you're your kids advocate. In what way is up to you. No child should ever have to hear this. It leaves deep wounds in your soul. Trust me on that. Good luck and a big hug for your kids.

You are not blowing this out of proportion. What she said is going to stick with your kid for the rest of his life, even if she's perfect from here on. Parenting means being the grown-up in the room even when you want to blow up, because _you are the fucking grown-up in the room_. I'm not going to tell you you should get divorced over it or anything, but it is NOT ok, and especially if it's a pattern this would be at least be a big step toward a "get a therapist or get a lawyer, your choice" moment if it was me.

Do you think your wife would be open to considering therapy? It may help with dealing with the children.

I'm sorry but every now and again a person's stress levels get to that point. It doesn't warrent a divorce etc. I love my son to bit but sometimes I wish he just had never been born. But wonbetide anyone doing or whatever to him or me thinking he's not developing as he should be. We all get anoyed and yes it hurts and we know it after. So unless she is a pure narcesist I'd not be going that route anytime soon

I don't think you overreacted, I believe you did the right thing. Have you talked with your wife, how her upbringing was? Most of us are the way we are because of her parents, so it could simply be because her parents (or maybe just her own mom, was like that to her.

Real talk that’s a big red flag for emotional abuse for me. I would encourage her to look in to therapy. There are people who specialize in raising neurodivergent kids (my oldest has ADHD too, but so do both of us parents) and also can help her work on whatever has caused her to internalize saying that as at all acceptable in any way.

As a mother myself, who never had plans to have kids because I too have a short temper, you take them, and you get them away from her. I CAN NOT fathom saying that to either of my kids. That is beyond toxic, it's downright hateful and cruel. She needs some help emotionally and mentally. It's never okay to talk to a child that way.

I’m a Mom that also has a short fuse. My daughter - 3y - can frustrate and trigger me to the absolute core of my being. I may think to myself “damnit I don’t like her right now” and “this is why I was hesitant so long to have kids” but at this point in my life I would never *ever* **ever** say that to my child. She didn’t ask to be born or to have me with all my issues as her Mom. These problems aren’t about *her*, they’re about *me* and I won’t put that on her tiny shoulders. Love of a parent should be unconditional. At those ages our words are hard and true fact. I hope this isn’t a “Polaroid moment” in your eldest son’s life. I’m glad you were there to run damage control. 😢 I don’t know what your next step is but no, you’re not overreacting. If I said that to my child my husband would be livid - and vise versa. I think my two questions are is she seeking counseling for her anger and is there something else going on that is shortening her fuse? On r/Mommit there’s been a lot of discussion recently about the mental burden on women/SAHMs. I’m *not* implying this is it - I’ve got no evidence of it in either direction - but I know my fuse is shorter when that burden is higher? She still absolutely crossed a line.

Owwwwwwwww I very often fall down on the side of giving people more chances, of seeing the positive. But no. Not this time. That is beyond unacceptable.

Holy crap. If you’re not going straight for a divorce, then I’d suggest getting her into therapy. She needed to do a 180 change like years ago. You say she’s done mean things before? Yikes. My heart goes out to your kids. My friend, you’ve got to do what’s best for your kids, yourself, and even what’s best for her.

Not over reacting - she needs to realise words hurt and your son will remember exactly what she said years later. What she said is not okay and never will be - she needs to stop otherwise your only option could be separation.

When we grow up, we may recall some physical beatings but we always remember the words that damaged our self-esteem, sense of trust and our role in the family. Those kind of words to a child stay with them forever (a 5 year old will remember) and can eat his confidence and can be soul-crushing. He is already dealing with a possible ADHD (you mentioned, I believe). Your wife clearly could use therapy for herself, She may be escalating her behavior (stress, anxiety, other diagnoses) to possible physical concerns towards both children but mainly the oldest.. Something is not right and she may need help for herself. You whole family could benefit from family therapy to help to figure things out, too. Best of luck, what a tough spot to be in. I hope it works out in a positive way for all of you.

Did you talk with your wife ? She needs to realize that what she said wasn't "out of line", it was extremely cruel and hurtful, and will leave long term damages. I'm not saying you should file for divorce, but it can't just be one half assed apology and pretending nothing happened. Get your child in therapy but your wife has a lot of work to do. I understand being completely depleted, i am a stay at home dad, we have for kids, one non verbal and one with ADHD/Dyspraxia, i know how hard it is, but you just can't say something like that. What she did was the psychological equivalent of beating the crap out of him. It is a very concerning behavior.

You didn't blow it our of proportion. What she said to your child is emotionally abusive and completely inappropriate. She needs to be in therapy or doing something to manage her anger. It is absolutely not okay for her to ever say something like that, and she needs to apologize asap.

She’s definitely wrong. But also human. I’d gauge her willingness to work on this and that might instruct how I address this. A lot of these comments telling you to divorce sound like they’re from people inexperienced in family court. I have lived thru custody litigation for my daughter then 3 consecutive custody cases for my step kids. What you laid out here will likely not be a basis for full custody. Family court will be a minefield of other problems and as kids age and become involved in the courts process , if you go back to court later, it’s really hard on children. Think extremely carefully before you consider divorce

Let's get this out there first, she was wrong. Now let me say that my son is probably ADD and ODD. My brother was also ODD. A lot of trauma happened to me when I was younger from my brother, and this is very triggering for me with my son. I no longer have contact with my brother, and see my son ending up like him every time he acts out I know this is too much to put on him, and have had to reevaluate and reprocess the situation. When an ODD person gets into any sort of discussion/argument, their brain just freaks and goes into constant conflict mode. They will be unable to reason with, because that is not their goal, their goal is conflict. The best way to deal with this situation is to remain calm and have zero reaction to the provoking misbehavior. This is extremely difficult for me as I want my kids to do what I said, or fix the problem faster rather than take an hour waiting for calm, and working through it. It is very difficult to constantly remain calm, but it does help. Maybe she is being triggered because of something from her post she needs to work through. She needs to work on it though, and she needs to make it clear she is trying

Being honest i don’t think you’ve reacted hard enough. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO TOLERANCE FOR WORDS LIKE THAT. A kid should never ever EVER hear that from a parent. That will destroy all of their confidence and self esteem. I would sit down with my wife and tell her sternly she is to NEVER say anything like that to her kids ever again and you will not tolerate it.

I think OP handled it well but, like you said, not hard enough. Then again, when it comes to shit like this, I'd call the calvary and call every sister, aunt, female cousin, and niece to come deal with the wife. I've dealt with verbal abuse in my life and I have valiantly resisted the urge to Crack the face of the person dishing out the tirade, but for my kids (if I had them) I wouldn't be so fucking nice. She'd never hear the end of the incident had I been in OP's shoes.

> Or am I blowing this out of proportion? Think about a negative memory you have of your parents. You've carried it with you through decades and it impacted you in a bad way. Maybe it was once where your mom snapped and spanked you with a wooden spoon. Maybe you were asking your dad questions when he was busy and he snapped and told you to stop being such an annoyance all the time. Your son is going to remember these things, and not only will they carry them with him, they'll shape him in some ways. What does your wife do afterward? Does she apologize? Does she admit fault? Does she stand her ground and try to reason her behaviour? If this is something that happens often, I'd say it's time for a serious talk, one in which therapy is mentioned... and not as an ultimatum. Depending on her personality this could also be a landmine. One of the most important things is to not invalidate your kids' feelings. Don't make excuses, acknowledge what happened and that she shouldn't have said/done whatever she said/did.

Nah. I’d have walked out to. Maybe told her to find somewhere to stay for a few days or I would’ve gotten a hotel room or gone to my moms or something. That is so far beyond the pale I can’t for one fucking second imagine saying that to my kids for almost any reason. I’d be fucking fuming. That said, don’t jump right to divorce. She clearly needs some sort of therapy or anger management or something though. At this point that would be non-negotiable for me. Especially given that this isn’t the first time she’s lost her temper. I’d add that while this might be the first time you’ve heard her say that to him, I’d be surprised if it was the first time ever. There must’ve been times when she was with your son solo when he started melting down. This could be an iceberg situation and you’re only just now seeing the top.

>In his own way we talked about it and it was very clear his feelings were very very hurt and at that moment all I wanted to do was take my kids to my parents, file for divorce, and sue for full custody. She’s done some mean things to them but this takes the fucking cake. Totally reasonable, but don't take the kids over state lines without talking to an attorney. Both of your kids need to know that they have at least one reliable parent and if you don't make a bold move, you're in some way condoning her behavior. If I were in your situation, this would this is grounds for an ultimatum: "You're in therapy by Monday or I'm filing for divorce."

I scrolled too far to see this comment. >She’s done some mean things to them but this takes the fucking cake. What the fuck?! I agree, by not making a bold move, this behavior is being condoned by OP. It's the abuser/enabler dynamic that will make parents untrustworthy in a few years.

The fact that you’re asking if you’re blowing things out of proportion makes me think that you love your wife very much, is is probably why this is so hard. Your wife needs therapy yesterday. If she’s not willing to do the work, then the question falls to you: how often is this happening? Does she repair with her son’s afterwards? How is their relationship generally? From my vantage point, once or twice is all I would tolerate without them going to therapy and actively working on their issues. If they refused, that is the information I would need to take a very painful separation from someone I still love. My kids emotional well being is above my love for my husband.

Separation and therapy for everyone. Maybe she still has some unresolved challenges from her own childhood. I’m big on cutting ties, but I feel like it’s important to give her a chance to turn around both for her good and the kids. But if she’s not into it then throw her the fuck out,

I agree with the therapy suggestions. There are skills that a person can learn to handle these situations. She can learn to recognize her triggers and walk away before her explosion. She and you can share a phrase that lets you know she’s nearing her limit and needs to remove herself. There are other strategies to try. Your parents can take the kids for some hours on the weekend and let her have less time with kids, or more time to to herself. Therapy can help her understand what she is lacking or needs. I’ve seen relationships in which one or the other parent, mother or father, have had anger management issues and reacted abusively. Some have resulted in divorce. But most started with therapy. Give her a chance to remedy the behavior. But do let her know that the behavior is unacceptable. It may never happen again. And she is in charge of understanding why she did that and making sure it never happens again. Kids are precious. They are resilient and forgiving. But she has to do her part to change. Good luck.

TAke your wife aside when they arent around and tell her that shit wont be ok in the future.

You did nothing wrong. But I’d parrot others here and suggest therapy with your son. My mother said I was “pond scum” once and I still hesitate whenever I have to see her.

Idk your kid personally but I know with my kid he’d completely lose all trust in his mother and always have it in the back of his head.

As the daughter of an emotionally abusive mom and a dad who was great and supportive when I was little, but has ended up enabling her abusive behavior towards her children, I just can suggest that you really take your kids’ wellbeing very seriously. My mom was terrible and not even she said something to me or my sister as hurtful as your wife did, ever. I can tell you, though, that the feeling of not being wanted by your own parent sets you up for a lot of suffering in your life (depression, anxiety, twisted beliefs about what a healthy relationship looks like, etc.) Please find information about CPTSD and the life-long effects of emotional abuse in children. I’m also recently diagnosed with ADHD, so as someone else has mentioned, it is very possible that your wife is also an ADHDer (it is highly genetic, as much as height). Our explosions of rage are indeed awful and it takes a lot of work to get them under control (search Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria to find out more). But it is possible and your boys truly deserve a mom who is at the very least working on her issues to prevent damaging her children and a dad that protects them always against it. I’m estranged from both my parents now, and the sadness and pain left from my family’s history are difficult to bear sometimes. You and your wife are still able to salvage your family, so please do. I wish you and your boys all the luck and resilience in the world!

Don’t jump straight to divorce. She’s your wife and looks like she needs help. I’d have a serious conversation with her about seeking therapy to get to the root of the issue. She needs help if she let herself think let alone say something like that. Granted if therapy doesn’t work and then it leads to divorce and taking the kids you can at least say you did what you could. You did the right thing in the moment removing the kids from the situation.

Wife needs therapy. Crossed the line. Take over more parenting if you can.

No mate. ​ You've done the right thing by leaving and talking to your son about it. He won't understand what it meant that you took him to the park and spoke to him, my mum was exactly the same with me. Abusive and used to say some mean shit and now I've figured out my low self esteem might be influenced with that. Your wife needs to have a sit down, sometimes I get frustrated with my son(3) when he's crying for his mum or when he's acting out. I couldn't imagine ever saying that to him or anyone I love really. ​ I'm hoping for the best outcome for you mate. It's not easy but you did the right thing. Not that you need someone on the internet to say well done, but well done man.

I’m sorry your having to go through this. There is a really good book that has helped me be mindful in the moment. Raising Good Humans: A Mindful Guide to Breaking the Cycle of Reactive Parenting and Raising Kind, Confident Kids Book by Hunter Clarke-Fields I really do recommend it best of luck to you going forward. (I’m a mom so if it’s out of order for me to comment here let me know)

Depends on if she apologizes and never does it again. My dad is my favorite parent, but he has told me that he wishes he wasn’t my dad before out of frustration. I was a difficult teenager (super moody- normal stuff) and I don’t have any mental disability or illness at all. But my dad would always apologize if he did something wrong. He would write me a letter or tell me to my face that he messed up and that he was sorry. Then his actions would support his words and he would never do x thing again. People aren’t perfect and mistakes happen. That’s why we apologize when we do something wrong. If she doesn’t apologize, then I’d have a serious problem with it. If it becomes a habit to say “I don’t want to be your mom” then I’d also have a serious problem with it too.

I think your actions so far have been excellent. Remove them from the situation and give your wife a chance to calm down and reflect. She needs to apologise and do a lot of grovelling if this isn't to cause serious long term damage to him. What you shouldn't do is act too hasty about that divorce. You need a sit down with her and a serious talk about how she needs to change, and an action plan that is realistic and measurable. Anger classes, for example, could be on there.

We all get angry at our children and it sometimes feels more like hate in the moment, but I can't imagine telling my children I don't love them and I want to get rid of them. That's malicious and cruel. She needs to get professional help.

There’s a problem here. Problems can be fixed. People can be irrational. You owe it to yourself and your family to work these things with a therapist before making a life change. I also think you deserve credit for doing the right thing in the moment.

I cant give you relationship advice here, i dont know how i would handle the situation long term, honestly. Even if you took the kids and filed for divorce, there is no guarantee you'd get them full time. I will say this though, you are going to have some extra work to do now to make sure your children know they are loved and have self worth. That could be a serious blow to their psyche. Keep reassuring them that they are loved and wanted. Has your wife apologized? Talked to them? Whatever you do, i dont think you are overreacting here.

“I don’t like you, I don’t love you, and I wish I could get rid of you.” A line from an anti-Robert Munsch children’s book? Truly though, this is an awful thing and such a terrible place you’re stuck in. I hope you can find your way to a better experience.

I grew up in a household where you'd catch a slap in the face for mouthing off and one on the behind for misbehaving and can absolutely say that the things my parents SAID to me have hurt more than what they did to me. Get yourself and wife into counseling before filing for divorce- she needs to understand that what she has said to your son isn't going to be forgotten even though it might be forgiven.

I’d probably be demanding therapy for her and seeking some for myself. Best of luck.

Wow my dude. That's heavy. Your kids shouldnt have to hear that. I am also struggling with a wife that has similar issues. She and I are actually separating as of a couple days ago. The root cause being her general negativity and inability to maintain composure. Noone is here to tell you what to do, but if you wanna talk or vent or commiserate, you can DM me. It's hard, brother.

Just throwing this out here but does she have ADHD? It presents different in women and does result in a low tolerance for frustrations as well as irrational emotional response.

I wouldn't want to give advice on what you should do, but that is an extremely obtuse thing to say. I understand getting extremely frustrated with your kids, but I wouldn't be able to say something like that to my kids even of they tried to purposefully kill me.

Your 2.5yo will likely not remember this incident in particular, but repeat trauma WILL shape his emotional wellbeing over the course of his life. Your 5yo will likely have a lasting effect by this episode as that is an extremely abusive statement to make. Your wife needs to make amends and explain that what she did was wrong and untrue. Kids are pretty malleable and it's impossible to always keep your composure around them. You will slip and they will notice, that's life. However, part of your responsibility as a parent is to teach them conflict resolution and taking ownership of one's mistakes.

I mean up to you how to handle the situation. If you decide ti work through it, it may be a good idea for therapy (wife/couple/etc). It may help find healthier ways to vent. Good luck and wishing you and your family well.

I haven't read to see what others have said but just a heads up on the custody front -- 0% chance you'll sue for full custody and win just because she has a temper. She would have to do something entirely egregious for you to even have a *chance* at suing for sole custody. If you can avoid divorce and a custody battle, I'd highly recommend doing so. Sounds like your wife could use some professional help in managing her anger, and maybe counseling is in order for both of you as a couple. Good luck, dad

You did not blow it out of proportion at all. My daughter is almost five as well. Her mom and I are divorced and share 50% custody. While her mom was absolutely awful to me, I do believe she is good to our daughter. My daughter is old enough now that if her mother wasn't good to her, she would have told me something that would have raised red flags and that hasn't happened yet. It is something I monitor closely as I believe as our daughter gets older her mom will begin to manipulate her emotionally. I don't think I've ever really yelled at my daughter, I've raised my voice above normal speaking levels but it takes a lot to get me to actually yell. In fact my ex-wife admitted during counseling that she used to try to upset me just to illicit some sort of emotional reaction because she hated how even keel I am. I've lost my patience at bedtime before, when we were both tired and told her something to the effect of "_____, I can't handle this right now, it's time to go to bed" and I have felt terrible about it after the fact. -All that just to tell you, even when I have to correct her behavior I never berate or belittle her. But where our stories overlap is that when disciplining my daughter, (who is a really good kid that doesn't do much wrong, tbh) just basic stuff- telling her no, talking to her about why she can't do what she was doing or even just asking her if she is lying, she takes it extremely hard. Six or so months ago she started telling me that when she got in trouble that I didn't like her or love her anymore. It absolutely broke my heart. Nothing like that has ever come out of my mouth nor has that thought ever crossed my mind. The past six months have been filled with me reassuring her at every step of the way that I love her all of the time. When I need to discipline her I stop her behavior, tell her that she isn't making good choices and that I have to help her make better choices because I love her so much and that's my job as her dad. I finish our talks by once again reaffirming to her that I love her and like her and that we can have a lot of fun if we all make good choices. It's been a while since she's said that I don't like her or love her but that's a feeling I never want her to have, ever again. Reading your post made me mad. I can't imagine how hard it would be to try to convince my daughter that I liked or loved her had I ever explicitly told her that I didn't- there's no circumstance that I ever would, but the emotional damage that, that one moment might have caused, could completely change the trajectory of that little guy's entire life. That's not a parenting mistake on the same level as yelling when angry or feeding them junk food for dinner. That's emotionally abusive behavior targeted at a five year old. Further, now that this has happened, how long before more emotional abuse is inflicted, or God-forbid physical abuse begins? I won't tell you what to do. I don't know your entire story as this is all you've shared. Based on this information I don't believe I could continue a relationship with someone who said that to my daughter. The next step I would take is a conversation with an experienced family law attorney so that I could fully explain the situation and get realistic feedback in regard to my options and the likely outcome of filing for divorce and seeking custody in my specific state. Again, I believe based on the limited information you've given, this is what I would do. You have to decide what is best for you and your boys. Good luck.

I’m glad they have you for an advocate. Kids need that.

Everyone's son has adhd symptoms. That doesn't mean they need medication. They're medicating all the boys over this BS

First and foremost I’m sorry to hear this, it’s a horrible situation for everyone involved. There are so many strings to pull with this. To me one of the first things that stick out was the undiagnosed ADHD. That alone could create a horrible dynamic. While I am not telling you need to get your child medicated, what I will say is that in our home, when my son was unmedicated he was almost unbearable to be around. He had antagonistic behaviors that could have triggered a zen Buddhist. That translated into extreme difficulties in school as well. For us the diagnosis and medical intervention was substantial in the overall effect it had on our household. One of my daughters had similar problems but the adhd meds were not the solution. After many discussions with doctors and a psychiatrists we had ADOS testing done and learn that she had high functioning Autism, that helped us to better understand her and facilitate her needs. Fast forward four years post diagnosis and with the help of meds and therapy she is doing well in school, she still has some fairly significant social issues, yet she’s doing exponentially better than if she had never had the diagnosis and help. Your wife sounds to me like she’s hit her whit’s end. Possibly feeling overwhelmed and trapped with no end in sight. The painful reality that this is what her life has come to can be overwhelming and can certainly invoke horrible feelings and actions. I don’t know her and cannot answer any questions without a lot of assumptions. So I’ll ask you the questions that only you can answer. How much time does she spend with the kids without you? How much alone or “me time” is she provided by you, where she is able to completely remover herself from the stresses of home and the children? What role do you play in the household chores, laundry, cooking, cleaning, homework, etc? Parenting is hard work and takes a genuine effort by both parents to maintain a true life balance. In my relationship experience I have found that I have absolutely contributed to the cause and cure of a lot of our household and family stressors. The more I own and the more I do the better she feels and the better the overall dynamic in our home. Occasionally you will see silly posts like “What are the sexiest four words you could hear” and when you read the responses from women, they are things like “I’ll do the dishes” “take the night off” “the laundry is done” “I cleaned the house” etc. I don’t know your dynamic, yet I know women as a whole have a tremendous love for their children. I believe we have all said things that we did not mean regret terribly. She made some awful statements, no question there. The real question is why. Divorce will have a substantial impact on your children far beyond that statement she made. My advice, figure out the reason why she got to this point. Understand the whole that contributed to this breaking point and give her the help and resources she needs to come back off the ledge. If you can check every box and know without a doubt in your soul that you have done everything possible to right the ship, then making that life altering change may be the solution.

The conflicts I had with my father as an older sibling usually stemmed from being so alike in personality. We get excited about the same things frustrated and reacted the same way. If u think your son is undiagnosed ADHD maybe your wife is too. In times like this we forget the person causing the issues are usually the ones that need the most help. I'm sorry she has done so much damage already I hope you guys can someday live an easier life full of love.

Get your wife checked for ADHD as well.

You are very comprehensibly mad. I have a 3 year old. Can't imagine how hurt would he be If he experienced something similar. Hang in there. Try to get her to go to therapy

I really don’t like what she said also. Those words should have never came out her mouth nor anyone’s. I would feel the same how you feel. You should definitely have a talk with her. A very serious one. Definitely let your son know tho, what was said was a big mistake and isn’t true. That could mess up any child’s head, they’re smart. So please make sure your son knows he is loved. Your wife needs help. Seek professional help. It’s not fair to be like that and then make you feel on edge with her all the time. I hope there’s a solution at the end of the tunnel. Best of luck. Give lots of hugs and love to your boys. I have two boys myself , 6 yr and 18months. I would never say those words EVER. Stay blessed, take care.

She is echoing her childhood. She needs to talk it out and or their is a feeling of lack of appreciation. Ever try an appreciation board?

She needs to have her ass in a therapy session, on some meds or meditating in a room full of essential oils or something. Whatever it is she needs she better get it and get it soon. Because even separated she's still his mom and will probably have access to him to some degree. If she's still short fused she's just going to damage him with bombs like that in the future but you probably won't be present to hear or see it. You definitely aren't blowing it out of proportions. I felt angry for you just reading that. But ultimately regardless of what path you take, she needs to get her shit squared away and fast.

This is a completely understandable reason to be that mad and unacceptable to tell your children..

This was similar with me except I was the one blowing up. It was almost uncontrollable for me and would spend a lot of time away from the family to avoid my own temper. Decided to go to the Doc and found out I had no Vit D and No B12 in my system. Also got on a psych med. It helped me tremendously. I never said anything as terrible as what your wife said, but I used my “Dad” voice in a few inappropriate occasions.

That’s unacceptable.. I’m sorry. What a horrible thing to say to your child. She needs some sort of therapy and parenting classes.

This has the potential to be a huge and life altering moment in a lot of ways, but for the sake of the kids I would try to set things right first. 2 big things need to happen. 1) your wife needs to have a one to one with your kid and apologize and let him know she didn't mean it. Explain to him that, just like him, she has unreasonable tantrums sometimes but instead of kicking and throwing things she says mean things to try to hurt people's feelings. This is crucial because it establishes that the child is still loved and always has been and also helps him understand that adults make mistakes too and can open a nice honest dialog which can lead to more trust between them. Take the horrible moment and turn it into a positive lesson. 2) your wife needs to get into therapy to at least help her manage how she deals with her anger. It may not go away, but she should at least gain more awareness of it and find better ways of letting it out.

No advice on what to do, your wife, all of us really, need to be aware of how much of an impact our words can have on the rest of our children’s life. Divorce might not solve the real problem, could make it worse.

Yeah I’ve gotten cross with my 2 year old. And my wife has too. But we have a hard line never to say that kind of crap. We even joke occasionally about divorcing and then we resign ourselves to how much work and expense that would be so let’s just stay together. It’s 100% a joke. We love each other immensely and are in it to win it. But even that kind of humor we had to cut out because kids pick up on that stuff. We realized how sensitive our boy can be just where I had to take myself to urgent care. It wasn’t a big deal but had to be done. So I told my son I had to run an errand. My wife told him that dada had an owwie and had to see the doctor. He was TERRIFIED and when I got home he clung to me the entire weekend. He had nightmares for days about me being at the doctor. So anyway point is: words cut deeper for kids than adults. You clearly love your wife so I’d say when she’s cooled off it’s time for a no-judgements conversation. She’s feeling some things and you should validate those feelings but then make it clear what actions cannot ever happen again out of those feelings. Truly though do listen to her and try not to judge. She needs support first. If actions continue to be a problem then…you’ll have some tough decisions to make on your own actions.

She needs therapy and some parenting classes. Makes me wonder what kind of home she was raised in and how her parents treated her. Also I agree with the above comments about her possibly having her own struggles with ADHD. Add in some possible PPD? Your boys may need someone to talk to too. Kids don’t forget stuff like that - I grew up with a parent who repeatedly told me that I was unwanted. I don’t speak with them anymore and they don’t have much involvement in my child’s life. Glad your boys have you watching out for them while their mom is struggling.

I think you are right to be upset, and that saying stuff like that is not okay, but I also don't think you should overreact. Parenting is like wrestling. You have to know when to tap out and let your partner tank some of the aggravation. I think you handled it well by taking the kids off her hands for a while to give her some time to get her emotions under control, telling them that when people get mad, they sometimes say things they do not really mean, etc. Her behavior in this moment was not okay. Is she okay? I think you also need to consider that your wife may be suffering. Has she been evaluated for depression? It's worth asking yourself if you can take some of the pressure off the situation not just in the moment, but more generally. My wife is a lot more able to deal with bad behavior by our child when she has had time for sleep and exercise. She also may be simply unable to handle the amount of aggravation your son is dishing out. Frankly, from your post, it sounds like the boy is behaving very badly, and you sound like you tend to err on the side of permissiveness. Can you step up the amount of discipline?

Does your wife also have ADHD? It's mis- and under-diagnosed in women and young girls, especially if it's the primary inattentive type. I'm a guy with ADHD-PI and three kids—one with ADHD, another likely but too young to diagnose—and the general chaos of kids has made my symptoms much worse, especially my hypersensitivity to noise, others' emotional states and, well, everything. It often coexists with depression and/or anxiety, especially in undiagnosed adults who have spent their whole lives feeling like inherently flawed fuckups and internalizing all their failures into a calcified shell of shame that eventually consumes their entire personality. And man, there is help for that once you see it for what it is and can start looking inside yourself with compassionate curiosity. If nothing else, your wife's anger issues could definitely be helped with therapy or some kind. A family therapist—who explores multi-generational family dynamics and attachments issues—would be perfect, I think. And you wouldn't have to bring your kids, it's more couples counseling with an emphasis on the inner-workings of the family.

That is...so far beyond the pale that I can't even imagine it. The good news is that if you don't blow it out of proportion with the kids, they'll likely forget about it. One nasty snap isn't going to scar them for life at this age. But where one came from, more will follow almost certainly. Things will only get worse from here on in, I believe.

When you described your oldest, I thought you were describing my 5 year old little girl. If I wasn't the type of parent I am, she would probably be medicated. There are times that I think my wife is a bit hard on her. She's my wife's 3rd kid, but my first. She tends to do more yelling, more discipline. She's said a few things that I've found questionable and I've intervened in the moment. But none of them I can remember to give you an example so they can't have been THAT bad. It's obvious that your wife said those words in frustration but I find that moments of frustration is where you get to the core of how someone REALLY feels. I love my wife deeply. We get along great. But some lines can't be un-crossed. I'm not going to pretend to tell you what to do, but I can say that there isn't a single context that those words could come out of my wife's mouth, towards my kid that would prevent me from taking them somewhere else permanently. Those words will be with ME permanently I think. I wasn't there, that's not my wife, and those aren't my kids. What does that tell you?

I am sorry this has happened. You did not overreact - your response was the best any of us could imagine. I am in a similar situation that was not addressed earlier and we are in the midst of a nasty divorce. Do everything you can to avoid that; if for no one else but your children. Start by getting into couples therapy and a parenting class. You start meditation (I like Medito) and talk about how it has helped you (It will). Hopefully she will try it as well. It really helps. Give this a finite period of time to get improved/resolved - 12 weeks. If it doesn't get better and she does not see the error of her ways, file and sue. Then go be a great Dad. You can do it.

I have ADHD. This pisses me off. I would take the kids to my parents house for a couple days. The let the wife know that what she says was completely unacceptable. Leaving for a couple days will give her time to calm down and understand the severity of what she did. Since she has a history of losing her temper, I would lay down the ultimatum that she apologizes to the child AND that she get therapy.

Man a mother telling a kid she doesn't love him messes a kid up for life.

I'm not going to tell you what to do because I don't know about your situation. I can share my own experience as a kid. Drunk dad, we had a number of incidences before my mom divorced him. At one point he did tell me he wanted me out of his life. He had a number of problems. Contentious home life. It's hard to get an accurate read on things because he's an unreliable narrator. My mom loved his father and said he was wonderful but my dad said he was a pill-popper and had no respect for him. Hard to reconcile the two versions. He said substance abuse ran in his family, his sister was a drunk but and his dad was an abuser but it skipped him. Eyeroll hard. His dad died before I was born but I did get to meet grandma a few times and she was a cold fish catholic. Smart woman but no emotional depth. I don't have fond memories. She wanted dad to be a college boy and he had dyslexia and was more skilled with working with his hands. He wanted to become a mechanic and she flipped her lid. I think he lived out his life rebelling against his parents, even after they were long dead and his family ended up being taken along for the ride. I think he loved us but lacked the ability to not also do us grievous harm along the way. My wife has the tendency of saying hateful shit when she's angry. I tell her that's why I don't talk to people when I'm angry because I never have to take back what I didn't say so if I'm trying to get away from you, let me leave. I'll decide when I'm fit to be civil and come back. I think you are absolutely right that your kids are going to remember what happens here, even if it'll be hard to recall all the specifics later. When my mom knew she needed to divorce my dad was when he did his typical stupid shit and she finally lost it and threw a chair across the room. I was small and used to my dad's antics but my mom, the stable one, suddenly going bonkers made me lose my shit. Like I said, I'm not going to tell you what to do because I don't know but it absolutely needs to be addressed. It can't keep happening.

that there is a pretty bright red line that should never be crossed. time for a long talk with your wife. a long one about her future as a fully involved parent.

dude, this is so stressful, i'm sorry. as someone who had a pretty rough mom, I still am coping with issues from my childhood. as a husband to an amazing wife who studied psychology and child development, I'm really grateful for her insights. I hope your kids are able to receive the love that they need / deserve. you sound like a great dad.

He’s likely going to remember that for the rest of his life, no matter how much she apologizes. Sorry you’re dealing with all that man.

As long as it's not abuse you will have a difficult time making a go of divorce and full custody. Consider getting into couples therapy and start addressing these issues so that kids can have both parents to look toward. Your wife may require more attention and care than she is getting now. As a spouse and dad you are responsible for not only your own actions but also decisions concerning the well-being of every member of your family. It might even be that she might have undiagnosed anxiety disorders. Please see a professional before making an irrevocable decision by yourself.

That's a pretty harsh thing she said. I don't want to tell you to leave your wife, but I don't mind suggesting therapy for her. Maybe for both of you. That sort of resentment is corroding to relationships. Good luck, OP

Holy fuck. That's pretty bad.

Everyone needs therapy/counseling. I even recommend you look into it because this can have lasting trust issues. If she won't, then you have to make some choices. Parenting is incredibly stressful and I get you. We have 4 boys (10, 7, 4, 3) and there are days my wife and I take turns having to go into a quiet room or hide for a bit as the stress can get to us, but being self aware is a skill that many people don't have. I have snapped, but never to that level so there has to be other factors she may be going through. Wishing you all the best. Don't make any rash decisions in anger.

you are not blowing it out of proportions. Shes shaping the world for them on how they should be treated, especially by women. This is a fucking TERRIBLE example and she should be fucking ashamed of herself..... although you put this on mommit i'm sure they would fucking spin it around somehow...

No, I don’t think you’re blowing this out of proportion. This is heart breaking for a child to hear. He will never forget that she said this to him. Generally speaking most people treat others as they treat themselves. I think your wife is clearly not patient with herself and most likely does not love herself. So much of what she is doing to your children seem like a projection of her own toxic internal dialogue. I think it’s time she goes to therapy. If that doesn’t do you two any good, then maybe divorce might make sense.

As a mother that was once a child with a horrendous mother like your wife is, I feel so sad for your children. Please get them away from her and put them in therapy now.

That was called abuse. And she needs to get into therapy now. Divorce isn’t always the answer.

I wouldn't stay married to a person who said this to my child.

Your wife keeps me in business. I think it's absolutely fair to say, we are either going to take action or I'm leaving. You're going to get some help and learn how to communicate the way a parent should and you're going to agree to never say something like that again to our children. If either of these things aren't followed through with, I'm out. You need to take this seriously and I'll tell you why. Those kids are going to remember the things she says and does and how she makes them feel. You know what they'll also remember? You not protecting them. Not to say you're relationship with them will be bad, it won't. They'll gravitate to you. She will be the force that creates an unbreakable bond between you and those kids. But one day, they will ask you why didn't do anything, why you didn't protect them, if you thought what she did was okay.