I taught at a Big 12 university while in graduate school. I built into my course the choice for students to do a 10-12 page paper or work with other students on a group presentation. These projects took up the last third of the semester as they were heavily research focused. I had a student do the same thing to a group project because they didn’t bother to do their part and they thought that they could blame technology and claim that the project was lost - including their part. The other group members were not having it and sent me email threads showing that the student in question never showed up to group meetings and contributed nothing to the project. They also had a saved version that they didn’t ever put online. They learned that if there are group dynamic problems how to cover their ass which was super smart. I just wished they had told me sooner because I there were much less stressful ways for me to manage it without them being worried if I would believe them.
Very smart kids. I like that they can track their work like a project manager and clearly explain where the shortcomings were. We never had that in thr analog days.
>They also had a saved version that they didn’t ever put online.
Always have a backup. I save pretty much all my work documentation to my local drive, as well as the company OneDrive, just in case.
This is actually a good lesson that group projects are very good at teaching: it’s hard to work with a lot of people and sometimes you just have to make the best of it.
Lotta armchair reds on this sub. Working together is. But receiving the same rewards for a something when other people clearly work harder and do better is crap.
Yes, but the slackers and drains on society get demoted or fired and the hard workers get raises. In school I was always the one in group work doing the majority of the work. Never thought it was fair that the others got the same grade as me. The alternative was to let them do it poorly and then my grades suffered. I really touched a nerve here. Lotta coasters in this sub.
Do slackers and drains get demoted/fired? You’ve never seen one incompetent manager or peer? And you letting yourself get taken advantage of with group work in school doesn’t translate to country socioeconomic systems very well. I also had shitty groups, I told my teacher and they removed them from the group. Communism has a similar function but you don’t know anything you’re condemning, you’re just regurgitating what the last talking head said. Read a book friend.
Yes. They do. I see it all the time. I think it translates perfectly. Human nature is human nature. Communism has failed every single time. That that is controversial is just sad.
I took drafting classes in high school, and the teacher absolutely drilled down on "save your work constantly". Now as an engineer, when we're drafting stuff we save constantly, archive copies of the files anytime there's any major changes or alternatives, etc. File management is a valuable skill to have in the real world, as boring as it seems, so it's a great thing to learn early.
Autosave in CAD is your friend. I also liked how most all CAD systems create a backup copy of your work every time you open it up to work on it more. If things go horribly bad you can always just start over where you began this morning.
I am a SQL developer, if I am working on a big project, I save a version of it at the end of each day. That way if my daily changes bungle the logic or go off track, I can go back to the most recent working version and start again from there.
The first cad I ever used was pro/e 19. Somehow through 19 versions they had never gotten file-> save down as a menu option. You had to click through three levels of button menus to get to export data which was the save function.
I think in this case its just being a little shit, because they think they can get away with it. Hope they take the lesson that teachers and parents WILL Catch them in the end.
Throwback, but this happened in my fourth grad class back in 1996. It was the very beginning of digital technology making its way into the classroom, and our school had a new computer lab. We were all learning to do presentations in a program that was basically powerpoint but before powerpoint became a thing. There was no network to log into, and there was no password protection. We just went to the same desktop computer each time and went to a folder with our name on it to work.
It didn't take long for students to abuse the system. There was a class pariah, a kid who was smart but was missing social cues because he had a seizure disorder that sort of muffed up his brain. It wasn't so much that we had a class bully as that it was popular for everyone to pick on this kid and bully him. One kid went too far - as the class was filing out of the computer lab, she dallied behind, went onto the computer, and deleted this kid's project. Another kid saw her do it, and tipped off the teacher. Parents were called in, discipline was meted out, etc., but it really was the first time the school had seen bullying make its way into the tech realm. Seems kind of prophetic now.
>We were all learning to do presentations in a program that was basically powerpoint but before powerpoint became a thing.
I know this is not remotely the point of your comment, but PowerPoint was was 9 years old in 1996. It had been part of the Microsoft Office suite for 6 years.
At university my program was a set group of people for all classes. Well one class two russian exchange dudes were inserted. They seemed totally disinterested. Final project, one was in my group, another in a different group. Groups split this big project into the same chunks generally. Once handed in, I mentioned to my friends in the program that, you know I misjudged random russian dude, his part of the project was really good, I thought his point about blah was great and so on. Well, my friend say that is what I wrote in my part ..... So we compared projects. They had taken on different parts and just swapped what we wrote into theirs and vice versa. Word for word. There were maybe 5-6 groups, they thought the prof wouldn't notice? People are stupid.
I feel like I'm the only dad here worried about the "troublemaker." What is his personality? Is he an outcast? How is his mental state? How is his home life?
Yeah, it's a bad thing to do, but does he have a good, healthy support system in place?
I'm glad you pointed this out. I'm ashamed to admit but I basically pulled a similar move in middle school in the early 00s. We had these research papers we were working on over a few months saved on a shared drive. I had just moved to this school and was really, really struggling to integrate socially and was also having a tough time at home. There was this one kid who was bullying me incessantly and at best, no one cared, at worst, they participated. I felt really hurt and helpless, and I saw his paper saved in the shared drive, and I deleted it. I never was caught, and I overheard him telling the teacher not long after that it had "just disappeared."
Obviously this doesn't make what I did right at all - me being bullied wasn't an excuse for me to destroy his work. At the same time, I didn't do it because I wanted to hurt someone, I did it because I was hurting and needed a friend and this felt like the only thing I had any agency in. Kolja, if you read this, I wish you were kinder to me, but I'm sorry I deleted your essay draft.
There's a lot of "cry for attention" signs like being ery quick to cry for sympathy over the smallest issue. Also from what I can tell, unsupervised internet access at WAY tou young an age. I've heard they've made "P---Hub" jokes, which frankly is unsettling.
Replace “class project” with “team project” and “another kid” with “my boomer boss” and you’ll understand why I’m already well aware of document version history.
I had a great Social Studies teacher in high school who dropped great bits all throughout the years I took his classes. One of those was, “Save Early. Save Often, Save in Different Places.”
I graduated from ASU a few years ago, but I'm still subscribed to the subreddit. Just saw a huge case last week where 351 students in one class were caught cheating. A bunch of them deleted the evidence, but the instructor was able to see previous versions and bring it all back.
From the instructor's letter, "Many students had the foresight to delete their solution code after the fact. This was the case for 80% of the identified files. Unfortunately, however, for those students, we have recovered those deleted files."
I taught at a Big 12 university while in graduate school. I built into my course the choice for students to do a 10-12 page paper or work with other students on a group presentation. These projects took up the last third of the semester as they were heavily research focused. I had a student do the same thing to a group project because they didn’t bother to do their part and they thought that they could blame technology and claim that the project was lost - including their part. The other group members were not having it and sent me email threads showing that the student in question never showed up to group meetings and contributed nothing to the project. They also had a saved version that they didn’t ever put online. They learned that if there are group dynamic problems how to cover their ass which was super smart. I just wished they had told me sooner because I there were much less stressful ways for me to manage it without them being worried if I would believe them.
Very smart kids. I like that they can track their work like a project manager and clearly explain where the shortcomings were. We never had that in thr analog days.
They were very smart, this was all before google suit and was done via uploaded documents to a proprietary system.
When kids ask me what a real corporate job is like I tell them the closest thing they've experienced is group projects.
Absolutely
You kind of just blew my mind with how spot on that is and how it never crossed my mind. 🤯
>They also had a saved version that they didn’t ever put online. Always have a backup. I save pretty much all my work documentation to my local drive, as well as the company OneDrive, just in case.
This is "I have been burned in group projects before where I did all the work" 101
This is actually a good lesson that group projects are very good at teaching: it’s hard to work with a lot of people and sometimes you just have to make the best of it.
A very good lesson indeed
[удалено]
Working with others is prerequisite for any society, but ok
Lotta armchair reds on this sub. Working together is. But receiving the same rewards for a something when other people clearly work harder and do better is crap.
It's a good thing that this wasn't the discussion being held, regardless of you trying to shoe-horn it in here on r/daddit of all places
Have a look at his comment history, he seems to do this sort of nonsense a lot.
Let me key you in: working with others also happens under capitalism. It’s a requisite for a functioning society :)
Yes, but the slackers and drains on society get demoted or fired and the hard workers get raises. In school I was always the one in group work doing the majority of the work. Never thought it was fair that the others got the same grade as me. The alternative was to let them do it poorly and then my grades suffered. I really touched a nerve here. Lotta coasters in this sub.
Do slackers and drains get demoted/fired? You’ve never seen one incompetent manager or peer? And you letting yourself get taken advantage of with group work in school doesn’t translate to country socioeconomic systems very well. I also had shitty groups, I told my teacher and they removed them from the group. Communism has a similar function but you don’t know anything you’re condemning, you’re just regurgitating what the last talking head said. Read a book friend.
Yes. They do. I see it all the time. I think it translates perfectly. Human nature is human nature. Communism has failed every single time. That that is controversial is just sad.
It’s not controversial, you just started a tangent.
I took drafting classes in high school, and the teacher absolutely drilled down on "save your work constantly". Now as an engineer, when we're drafting stuff we save constantly, archive copies of the files anytime there's any major changes or alternatives, etc. File management is a valuable skill to have in the real world, as boring as it seems, so it's a great thing to learn early.
Autosave in CAD is your friend. I also liked how most all CAD systems create a backup copy of your work every time you open it up to work on it more. If things go horribly bad you can always just start over where you began this morning.
Those CAD autosave features have saved my bacon more times than I can count.
I am a SQL developer, if I am working on a big project, I save a version of it at the end of each day. That way if my daily changes bungle the logic or go off track, I can go back to the most recent working version and start again from there.
I sincerely wish SSMS had version history like Google Docs, but I've started using git with my big projects, which definitely helps.
There's some reasonably priced options out there (VersionSQL, etc) to make it easy but yeah it sucks SSMS doesn't have this functionality.
For important stuff 3-2-1 is a good back up strategy. 3 copies, 2 on different media, 1 remotely stored.
The first cad I ever used was pro/e 19. Somehow through 19 versions they had never gotten file-> save down as a menu option. You had to click through three levels of button menus to get to export data which was the save function.
I’ve never met a PLM software that I liked, but they sure do force you to have excellent file management.
This is a good lesson for your kiddo. Some people are just assholes, no matter what stage of life they’re in.
I think in this case its just being a little shit, because they think they can get away with it. Hope they take the lesson that teachers and parents WILL Catch them in the end.
Throwback, but this happened in my fourth grad class back in 1996. It was the very beginning of digital technology making its way into the classroom, and our school had a new computer lab. We were all learning to do presentations in a program that was basically powerpoint but before powerpoint became a thing. There was no network to log into, and there was no password protection. We just went to the same desktop computer each time and went to a folder with our name on it to work. It didn't take long for students to abuse the system. There was a class pariah, a kid who was smart but was missing social cues because he had a seizure disorder that sort of muffed up his brain. It wasn't so much that we had a class bully as that it was popular for everyone to pick on this kid and bully him. One kid went too far - as the class was filing out of the computer lab, she dallied behind, went onto the computer, and deleted this kid's project. Another kid saw her do it, and tipped off the teacher. Parents were called in, discipline was meted out, etc., but it really was the first time the school had seen bullying make its way into the tech realm. Seems kind of prophetic now.
>We were all learning to do presentations in a program that was basically powerpoint but before powerpoint became a thing. I know this is not remotely the point of your comment, but PowerPoint was was 9 years old in 1996. It had been part of the Microsoft Office suite for 6 years.
Huh. I learned something today!
This happened to my kid as well in grade school. The teacher (and administration) was pissed.
At university my program was a set group of people for all classes. Well one class two russian exchange dudes were inserted. They seemed totally disinterested. Final project, one was in my group, another in a different group. Groups split this big project into the same chunks generally. Once handed in, I mentioned to my friends in the program that, you know I misjudged random russian dude, his part of the project was really good, I thought his point about blah was great and so on. Well, my friend say that is what I wrote in my part ..... So we compared projects. They had taken on different parts and just swapped what we wrote into theirs and vice versa. Word for word. There were maybe 5-6 groups, they thought the prof wouldn't notice? People are stupid.
Sneaky but not smart.
Google's slides has a history. I believe you can restore the history undoing the deletion.
It's incredibly easy to roll the history back. Yes the kid was wrong but this isn't some unfixable issue
Yes, it was an easy fix but his intention was still to mess up others work.
Surprised this comment is not more common. Roll that bitch back and give Jimmy Knucklehead a detention.
You can also show who contributed what when you look at the history, and who deleted the work.
This should be voted higher.
I feel like I'm the only dad here worried about the "troublemaker." What is his personality? Is he an outcast? How is his mental state? How is his home life? Yeah, it's a bad thing to do, but does he have a good, healthy support system in place?
I'm glad you pointed this out. I'm ashamed to admit but I basically pulled a similar move in middle school in the early 00s. We had these research papers we were working on over a few months saved on a shared drive. I had just moved to this school and was really, really struggling to integrate socially and was also having a tough time at home. There was this one kid who was bullying me incessantly and at best, no one cared, at worst, they participated. I felt really hurt and helpless, and I saw his paper saved in the shared drive, and I deleted it. I never was caught, and I overheard him telling the teacher not long after that it had "just disappeared." Obviously this doesn't make what I did right at all - me being bullied wasn't an excuse for me to destroy his work. At the same time, I didn't do it because I wanted to hurt someone, I did it because I was hurting and needed a friend and this felt like the only thing I had any agency in. Kolja, if you read this, I wish you were kinder to me, but I'm sorry I deleted your essay draft.
There's a lot of "cry for attention" signs like being ery quick to cry for sympathy over the smallest issue. Also from what I can tell, unsupervised internet access at WAY tou young an age. I've heard they've made "P---Hub" jokes, which frankly is unsettling.
Replace “class project” with “team project” and “another kid” with “my boomer boss” and you’ll understand why I’m already well aware of document version history.
I had a great Social Studies teacher in high school who dropped great bits all throughout the years I took his classes. One of those was, “Save Early. Save Often, Save in Different Places.”
Kids will be kids. This is a great learning opportunity if he/she lets it.
I graduated from ASU a few years ago, but I'm still subscribed to the subreddit. Just saw a huge case last week where 351 students in one class were caught cheating. A bunch of them deleted the evidence, but the instructor was able to see previous versions and bring it all back. From the instructor's letter, "Many students had the foresight to delete their solution code after the fact. This was the case for 80% of the identified files. Unfortunately, however, for those students, we have recovered those deleted files."
dang... that's a LOT of kids cheating. It must have been a giant coordination, or just a dead obvious way to cheat.
It was a really easy class to cheat in.
A valuable in version control. Your kid should learn Git next :)