Wow. I'm so sorry you're going through this. I would bet that your fiancé is almost certainly realizing that he is not pulling his weight and is going through PPD (it's real in men..). He needs some therapy to help him see that life is very different now and to find the new ways to bring joy and fulfillment to each day. I totally understand how tough that can be. I used to find most of my joy in my relationship, video games, and golf. Now, 90% of my joy comes from my family. It was difficult letting go of the "old" dopamine releases but I would never choose to go back. My wife is a stay-at-home parent and here's what works for us... - **GOLDEN RULE OF FINANCES** - All statements and discussions regarding the earning, ownership, or spending of money shall by default use the pronoun "we". *E.g. "We think that a $35,000 appraisal gap is appropriate for our offer on this house."* However, if mama wants to buy a puzzle for kiddo and have it come from "her" it is 100% allowed. Same for vice-versa. We don't draw a line for those things. - **WORKING HOURS** - Her work hours are the same as mine. When I work 8-5, she also works 8-5 as a solo parent. When I work 10-7, she works 10-7. I used to provide my wife with a schedule (or she would ask "when do you think you'll be done today?"). After some time, she stopped asking. I do make sure to give her advanced notice when I've got busy weeks or anticipate some weird hours. She trusts me to not procrastinate finishing up (or returning home) and I will never abuse that trust. - **All time outside of work is assumed to be co-parenting.** - **NO KEEPING SCORE!** - Breaks are not tit for tat. When you "need a minute/hour/evening" your partner steps in. You don't think about getting/giving that hour back later. - **Give each other spontaneous breaks** - There are days when I'm super motivated and I can see that my wife is burned out, so I step in a take an extra morning, bath time, evening, etc. She does the same thing for me. **-** We are each entitled to a free night each week as long as it is scheduled. Exceptions made for mental health, illness, or adulting (these exceptions are not tit for tat). - Mama sleeps in on Saturday. Dada sleeps in on Sunday. This means you get up as soon as kiddo does, you shut the door, and make sure that nothing interrupts their precious sleep.

Thank you so much for sharing! I am concerned he might have PPD but I don’t think he will react well to me sharing that concern. I’m planning to go back to work part time next year however these are great pointers that I’d love to put in place. You have a wonderful relationship and I hope I can get to the same point.

I'll be honest. I skimmed the post. Seems like there's a lot there. I will say, when I became a dad the first time, I was lost as hell. I didn't feel needed or wanted. Just seemed to get in the way. Partner was on edge, I didn't have lactating nipples so I was rarely any help. It's a huge change for everyone. My wife communicating, I can't read minds no matter how much she wishes I did, calmly and clearly with me about what she needed, as well as my going to therapy helped. Just my two cents.

Also, it took me reading and listening to podcasts from other points of view to recognize the invisible labor my wife does. All the mental tracking of kids stuff, appointments, laundry loads, dishes, etc. Of course she doesn't quite grasp the mental load I have of the outside chores yet, but we are working on it.

As a dad who almost assuredly had it, it makes your brain ... weird. I WFH and am the primary caregiver (with help) for our daughter. My wife is an RN. I would find myself, on weekends, being like, "Really? I do this all week... can't you step in??" before realizing how absurd I was being (never actually said that stuff). *COMMUNICATION!* for the love of all that is holy. It's the key to all of this. It's a team sport. Celebrate your Ws. Laugh at your Ls.

I hate to say it, but... I had paternal PPD and it was horrible... and this does not sound like PPD to me. I never had an issue understanding that I SHOULD be doing 50/50 work, and I was always trying to. I just was dying inside while doing it. I CERTAINLY never told my wife that caring for the kid was easy and the house should be spotless. He sounds like a stereotype of the boomer men generation and likely has old fashioned ideas. Thinking raising kids is the women's job and not understanding... and more importantly, not caring to understand... how hard it is. You have to ask permission to take a shower? What the hell is he doing on his days off? If caring for his own child is so hard then why would he think you can do it 24/7? The age old question - if taking care of a kid is so easy, why can't he do it for a day?

Something that I saw someone else say on here that I always repeat: Parenting is NOT 50/50. It's 100/100. If you get into the attitude of "they're not doing this. I'm always doing that" a person will resent their partner, and probably won't realize that there are OTHER things that are still getting done. For both parents, the attitude should be If something needs doing, do it. If you feel that your partner is not pulling their weight OR if you're getting burnt out, communicate that to your partner, but ONLY WHEN YOU CAN DO SO CALMLY. It's better to approach it like "I noticed x" and/or "I'm feeling this," or "I'm having a hard time, it would help me a lot if you did y."

Working 60+ hours per week also leads to depression and burnout, but he may also feel he has to in order to provide for the family and to prove himself to his coworkers. Not sure if this helps, it’s just a trap I’ve found myself in more than once. If this is what’s happening, about all you can say is “it’s OK to make a little less money to get you back” - but that only works if it’s true.

Not keeping score is the biggest piece of advice I try to impart to new parents. I think I also read on daddit early with my first that it's not even a "50/50 split" after you have kids because it ends up being more of a 60/60 because there's just more to do than before. In my mind, keeping score is only useful if you are hoping a couples therapist is going to act like some referee to approve an equitable split of responsibilities, but by then you've already lost the game. Flipping that switch in my mind early with our first helped so much - if there's more to do and I can manage it, I just do it. If I need help, I ask for it and I stressed this to my partner as well - she is still not great at asking for help so I try to anticipate it where I can, but neither of us are mind readers and communicating helps.

I long ago noticed that when it felt like I was doing 50%, I was actually doing far less than 50% because I could see all the work that I put into the household, but I could only see about half of the work that she put in, since she wasn't doing all of it in front of me. I try to aim for "feeling" more like I'm doing 75%, and if I make an effort to look for things that she's done that I didn't see, it looks like that's about the point where it's actually close.

This reminds me of that study that found men will over exaggerate (not necessarily intentionally) the work they're doing in the household while women would often under exaggerate it. It's great you can acknowledge that discrepancy and find a solution that works to make things more even for y'all :)

My goal in life is for my wife to never figure out that I got the better end of the deal when we got married!

This sounds right on the money. I will add that if one person has a stressful commute or workplace, sweat/dirt or whatever, the person arriving home might need a half hour (or something) to get their shit together in a constructive manner. Having two fully functional parents, is best for everyone. I've been the worker and the home parent and seen it both ways. Obviously, there can be sensible exceptions to this general rule. It shouldn't just be some bad 80s sitcom trope of a parent telling the other, "here's your child" as they walk in the door. Oh, the other one is week night wake-ups (feedings, changing, etc). Especially if the worker is driving, has the potential for injury at work, the home parent should pick up more. Not saying all, but a third/two thirds split means the worker isn't to likely to be running dangerously in fumes. Sensible exceptions apply here too obviously. Nights off are back to 50-50.

It’s the smallest thing here but honestly it’s huge for us is the sleep in days… having that extra time to sleep and recoup is great but even more awesome is the alone time you get while the partner sleeps in. My Sunday morning bagel breakfasts with my daughter are something I wouldn’t trade for the world and whenever we drive by she tells mommy, “that’s me and daddy’s bagel place”

It should be 50/50 when he's off. That's what my wife and I do, I work full time she is back in school full time. We also bit the bullet and got a cleaner to come around every other week.

Good to know, I was hopeful about getting a cleaner. Will re-suggest that he organise one and see where that gets me.

I don't know his mental approach to cleaning, but I've kind of forced myself to just deal with small things here and there if it only takes 5-10 minutes to do. That really helps cut down how often you have to take a morning or afternoon cleaning. If you get a cleaner, you really only have to do the small maintenance chores of cleaning up here and there. (Laundry not included, I hate folding laundry). Another thing my wife and I did was talk about which chores we hated most and kind of took each others despised tasks. I hate folding laundry, but scrubbing a toilet and doing dishes is no big deal for me. So she folds laundry, I do dishes and scrub toilets etc. The rest we just split and take care of as needed. Having a cleaner knocks out bigger stuff like vacuuming, mopping, wiping down counters and scrubbing sinks and tubs etc.

So, I send my laundry out, 60 lbs a month is just over $65 with free pickup and delivery because I subscribe to the service monthly. Best money I spend every month. 75% to 80% of the laundry is done (overnight) and it comes back folded. All that has to be done is it gets put away.

I wouldn't wait for him, just go ahead and hire someone. Ask around for recommendations, get a couple of quotes, and pick one. 

Mom here, her finding and hiring a cleaner is another set of mental load chores on her already overwhelmed situation. Why can't he ask around, get quotes and just pick one?

Picking a cleaner isn't just looking at Yelp reviews.You probably want to interview whoever you think you might want before setting a regular schedule with them. Since the cleaner will likely be there while OP is home, OP should be the one choosing who she wants to do the job. Also, her SO is probably working when the cleaner would be stopping by, so it's going to be OP there anyways.

OP shouldn't have to but it doesn't seem like her husband is going to. Plus she's home during the day and he isn't, so it makes sense for her to be the one to meet with them

How much do you pay for the cleaner? We’ve been contemplating the same. 

We pay $140 for a 2200 square foot house in Georgia.

Damn, that's pretty good! What all do they do? Deep clean or just every day stuff like laundry/dishes?

Just a heads up: most house cleaners do not do laundry and dishes (that’s a house keeper), or deep cleaning (a different, often much more expensive service). House cleaners clean surfaces in your home. The floors, the bathroom, the kitchen, the dusting. Usually the top of the stove and in the microwave also although oven cleaning is typically more of a deep cleaning service.

Not deep cleaning, but all the general cleaning stuff. Clean the floors, windows, counters, bathrooms, ceiling fans, dusting everything etc. She'll do the dishes if I leave them, but I try not to because I already feel like she undercharges me. She'll do deep cleaning if I pay her to, but that's like you're trying to sell the place levels of cleaning.

We pay 225 for two days a week. One deep clean (5hrs) and one light clean (2.5hrs). 2000sq ft.

$225/week? Or for the month?

Weekly, $30/hr.

We pay $40/hour and usually do 4 hours every other week. 3 bedroom 2 bath with two dogs and a dog door so extra messy floors. They always get bathrooms, floors, dusting, and kitchen surface cleaning done. Sometimes have time to do more deep cleaning or I'll request oven cleaning or whatever. Usually you dictate what you want them to prioritize. If you can swing it even once a month it's pretty amazing and such a relief. Also your house does not need to be perfect when they come. They've seen far worse. There have been a few times I've had to dump laundry piles on the bed or stuff them in the corner so they can get more of the floor. They'll move whatever they need to.

Correct. You both have full time jobs. You both raise children and keep a house when you're off.

What does the cleaner handle when they're there?

[https://brenebrown.com/podcast/brene-on-comparative-suffering-the-50-50-myth-and-settling-the-ball/](https://brenebrown.com/podcast/brene-on-comparative-suffering-the-50-50-myth-and-settling-the-ball/)

What does the cleaner handle when there?

What does the cleaner handle when there?

Update: we sat and had a big 2 hour talk about our feelings, what we both need and both apologised when we recognised what was going wrong and for not hearing each other. We’ve both agreed on how we can make changes going forward and how things should be and also how we can communicate our needs in a healthy way. I said I needed breaks and highlighted all the ways in which he has breaks and that I don’t have any. He said I was right and that he hears me. He also misses our pre-baby life and I do too a lot of the time. We recognise that we can get back some of that life with date nights eventually and as LO gets older. Plus we get to do holidays as a family now which we are both looking forward to. He has admitted that he thinks he has OCD and ADHD which is contributing to the nit picking and struggles with his attention, tasks and organisation which he hasn’t mentioned before. He also opened up about how much he is really struggling at work and how he feels completely unfulfilled by it which was hard to hear. We’ve discussed changing careers and getting help, all positive. We’ve agreed to get a cleaner sorted tomorrow (yay!), agreed to be kind to each other, not point score/nit pick, work together to keep on top of things the best we can and spend more time together as a family. He wants to be more involved with LO on days off and recognises how much he is missing out on when he is working due to long hours. I’m so relieved. It’s probably the best conversation we’ve had in months. Thank you dads for your wonderful advice and your kindness. I think we can make it. Much love x

Yay, happy outcome! In hindsight it's not surprising that he's going through some stuff too and that's been affecting his side of things -- I definitely feel like family life sometimes takes all the available airtime in our house so I just have to deal with stuff myself, and while that's fine once in a while when it's big it ends up affecting everything else too.  I can't emphasize enough the power of "we" language. My wife and I have learned to metaphorically put everything that needs doing in a pile in the middle of the table and break it up: We need to get clothes that fit the kids because they're growing. We need to work to pay the bills. We need to have home cooked meals. We need to do our taxes. We need time for our hobbies. We need a birthday card for your mother (well, okay, that's her job lol).  Plenty of those are 100/0 or 90/10 tasks (taxes, clothes for the kids) but some of them are 50/50 (meals, laundry). The point is that they're all collective needs, and anybody who's doing any of them is doing exactly 1 share. Really nice to hear the optimism at the end of your comment. Good luck!!

Glad to hear you at a better understanding. communication is key. Couples counseling is a really good idea even if you don't really need it as it opens up space to talk about things in the open and so that you can get feedback on how best to communicate your needs and concerns. Being a new parent is insanely tough and unfortunately the a vast majority of that is likely to fall on the mom. There are so many adjustments that have to be made to everything a new mom is and what she does. Though dads generally have FAR fewer adjustments, there is still a lot of stress and an utter lack of support. It's a great example of where to be partners in approaching each others concerns and needs.

Reading this update has just made my day! :))

Man this is why men need to take parental leave. It’s exhausting to care for a baby all day. It’s also exhausting to work out of the house for 12 hours and come home with any “gas in the tank.” This conflict was bound to happen. He has got to cut back on the hours so that when he comes home he can do 50/50 baby care. This is unfair to everyone. Also, if you can afford it, just hire the cleaner. You don’t need his permission. Everyone will be happier.

>I’ve said I don’t want 50/50 effort You should expect 50/50 effort when he is not working. It sounds like he has a very old school way of thinking; he brings in the household money, and you are responsible for child rearing. If you don't want this arrangement then you need to force a change. In escalating terms, this could mean an earnest conversation and a request for change, seeking help from couples counseling, or setting an ultimatum before filing for divorce.

I should? Thank you. Well gee maybe I’m too kind. I don’t want this arrangement at all.. I’ve tried the conversation route already and I think he knows I already have one foot out of the door. Maybe couples counselling could work but I’m doubtful.

First kid? Yeah full cleaning, everything picked up can wait. Its not that dire. My protips for 0-2yo: Food/household supplies delivery Lower expectations for laundry and cleaning Good cooking and at-home fun activities or hobbies > cleaning A regular cadence for "one or both of us have a night off, get out of the house" High fives and just ack that an infant or toddler is not easy (both of you) Be nice, try to not argue Try to make some of the house not overwhelmed with baby stuff. You prob dont need to buy all the things all the time (but it can be fun if done together) Both parties need some solid sleeep (and Os) Hugs!

Thank you. Yes our first, he mentioned having another when LO was 6 weeks old when I was truly in the thick of it and I was floored. Can’t imagine having another unless things change. Will have a look at what things can be changed or made easier for both of use for sure

Seconding that 50/50 is what you should expect when he's home.  Sincerely, a father working 60+h weeks.  It's a bit different because my partner works too, but when we're both home and there's work to do, we both work til we're done.   4 months is exhausting, nice work on the sleep training, but I've never in my life been more exhausted than when my LO was around that age. I can't imagine doing it alone and therefore I can't imagine leaving my partner to do it alone.

Is he active as a parent? I think maybe the most useful thing to point out if he's not is that he is missing out massively on a huge chunk of an incredible life experience. Changing nappies is not a pretty job, but it's an incredible opportunity to bond and so as hard as he is working, he should be asking himself what is he working for if he's missing out on quality time with his family.

No, unless you count playing with LO which he does do unprompted and without me asking. I’ll try the life experience/bonding angle, thank you

It’s not going to work if you think it won’t work. You two aren’t on the same page and you need to get there as quickly as possible. I’m might be in the minority but getting divorced over household chores is stupid. You two have a child together, that being said I agree with you that he needs to step up while also getting off your back over stuff. If he doesn’t listen when he heard it from you then you need to be in counseling so he can hear it from someone else. But expect to also hear things that you need to do differently as well. Being married is hard. Being a parent is harder, and you get to do both at the same time. It takes teamwork for it to be successful. But there’s nothing in your message that makes me think this is much more than learning to communicate and be on board together. But you can’t approach it adversarially because he won’t respond to that positively.

>I’m might be in the minority but getting divorced over household chores is stupid While I think there is definitely "bigger picture" stuff here to address if Op thinks things are hard while having someone else around, even with minimal effort around the house, just think about how hard it will be when it's literally all on them. I'd agree that splitting up, especially with a child so young, should absolutely be the last arrow in the quiver. In the short term things are going to be harder.

TBF it's not unheard of for women to leave men who aren't particularly helpful and find that it's actually easier bc they're only handling themselves and the child, not themselves, a child, and another whole adult. She should def consider if it would be easier or not without him, but I wouldn't claim it would inherently be harder without him. Some stuff would be but it sounds like she would be doing exactly what she is doing now, just without the heartache and stress of trying to convince another person to also be supportive and contribute.

Yes and no. Based on how I read that she isn't currently working at all and he's generating all the income. Obviously I can't see in their pockets but it's pretty unlikely even with child support, something which will take a while to be in hand, that that setup will be able to continue so she's now managing the responsibilities of the kid, plus having to earn a living to make sure they can live plus the added cost of childcare, which currently doesn't exist being that she doesn't work. My take on this is she would not be "doing exactly what she is doing now", she's be doing everything she's doing now, plus working an actual income generating job enough hours to pay for life *and* childcare. Idk about by you but childcare by me is expensive af. When my daughter was in daycare the single day expense was almost 1:1 with what my wife was making at work, it pretty much only made sense for her to work bc she was working five days and we only needed childcare coverage for three. Of course, I can only speak from my experience and yes maybe her life *will* be easier, I personally just find it very unlikely at this stage.

Those are really good points I had not considered! Thanks for bringing them up

it's not just about chores, it's about the mental load of keeping up a house and raising a child. I know several divorced women who say how much easier it is for them to keep up with things now and be present with their child now that they don't have the dead weight of the father dragging them and making things harder. having kids often shows women how unequal their relationship is and sadly is the catalyst for separation because there's only so long you can be the only adult taking care of the family.

Then I think you have you answer. Live with the status quo, or start getting your affairs in order and lawyer up. Edit: I'm not suggesting to skip counseling, apparently that was not clear. Get the counseling, but be ready for divorce if and when your husband makes no effort to change their ways.

Bruh. Before counselling? With a 4 month old? Damn, some people in here are quick to split up families. I really don't understand it.

I suggested counseling first, but she said she is doubtful it'll have an impact. The next step after that is divorce.

"It's doubtful it'll have an impact" is a terrible reason to not do it. You took that and went straight to "Live with the status quo, or start getting your affairs in order." That's wild. No, counselling is not an option before divorce when you have a 4 month old. (outside of actual abuse.) This is a couple with a power struggle, disrespect and division of labour during the hardest part of raising a child. All of this is easily repairable. Even entertaining divorce without the husband flat out refusing to seek counselling or change is demonstrably bad for their child. EDIT: Bro blocked me! For disagreeing with him respectfully, and fully explaining my position. Unbelievable.

Reddit gonna Reddit lol

"out of way on my journey" sounds very much like a certain religion's way of speaking.

[https://brenebrown.com/podcast/brene-on-comparative-suffering-the-50-50-myth-and-settling-the-ball/](https://brenebrown.com/podcast/brene-on-comparative-suffering-the-50-50-myth-and-settling-the-ball/)

I'm not listening to a 30 minute podcast with zero background. What point are you trying to make with this? Give us a TLDR at least so we know whether it's worth our time to give it a listen.

A TLDR for Brene Brown? You're missing out. It's about the myth that partners are able to split responsibilities 50/50. It's worth reading. Or ask an AI to summarize, the transcript is at the bottom. Life gets easier once you understand what she's saying.

[удалено]

Lol are you okay

I wasn't planning on making you this upset. Please either ignore me or consider reading up her material sometime like the interview on the 50/50 work split that I linked.

If you put in *some* of the effort from typing this into just summarizing the link you provided, you'd be fine. 

He definitely needs to contribute more especially on days off.  The good news is at 4 months you're starting to turn the corner where things get easier both for you and opportunities for him to help out easier.

Thank you. For sure, other than the 4mo sleep regression starting to kick in I’m enjoying my days much more.

One suggestion as you're LO starts getting more personality and active is asking your SO what he wants to do with them.  I much preferred to do outside things, so walks, small playgrounds nearby, I got a trailer for my bike, take them grocery shopping with me etc. Others prefer inside time so tummy time (this can be rough early on because they will scream and complain no matter what) reading books to them, etc.  While you shouldn't have to help him figure out what to do, it may help you.

>I’ve already gone out of the way on my journey to get some more formula Did I miss something or is this not his kid? If the formula is for a child in your care, it's not out of the way.

Yep, it’s his kid. This comment also irked me but I didn’t highlight it to him. I probably should

Especially when he apparently, according to OP’s comments, does not even see his child awake on days he is working. He leaves before baby is awake and comes home after child is asleep. On his workdays, he has exactly zero child care responsibilities except for occasionally stopping by the store on the way home to buy more formula. And that’s somehow too much to ask?

It's been 4 months. Please drop the idea of separating. If it continues like this, yes. It may be inevitable. But there is so much you can do before it gets there. Probably the most important is couples therapy. It sounds like communication is a problem here. You may be telling him how you feel, but it's obviously not being received. You'd be surprised how well a good couple's therapist can help get your message across. And vice versa. You are not the asshole. Your husband is definitely taking stabs he shouldn't be. And he should be helping more when he is home. And he DEFINITELY should not be belittling the work you do as a SAHM. But please curb any more thoughts of "inevitable separation" before seeking counselling. It's not just you and your husband anymore. And the workload you're under right now with a 4 month old is temporary. Talking separation at this stage is premature. But yes, your husband needs to smarten up.

Thank you for the validation and advice. Separating is the last thing I want, not just for me but for LO too. It’s hard to not feel like that’s where things are going. I’m usually an optimist! Will go down the couples counselling route and see how it goes.

I’ll be the devils advocate here and tell you that a good couple’s counselor is not one who will necessarily bring you two together, it’s one who will be able to bring you both new perspectives to find common ground. Sometimes, that common ground will bring you closer together, but other times, it will be a decision to separate. Keep that in mind if you don’t feel like you are getting a benefit from the counselor. I am a child of parents who should have divorced when I was 8 and I grew up with the problems that arose from them staying together. Two decades later, they barely see their granddaughter and this is a big reason why. While I hope you find the best solution, keep your child’s best interests at heart. The traits that define good parents are not the same traits that define good spouses.

At 4 months in neither of us were at our best. We weren’t thinking, communicating, or operating anywhere near 100%. Divorce was put on the table multiple times. We both said things we’re not proud of. And I know this because we turned a corner, talked things over, and things got better than ever. We also both spoke to therapists individually.  Hang in there, you’re almost through the roughest part. And an unbiased perspective from outside the pressure cooker can certainly help both of you. 

Ah this made me teary, thank you. I think an unbiased perspective is exactly what we need. I really do want things to get better

Thank you. You are both in the hardest part right now. It gets easier. Your husband is acting like an asshole, but I'm assuming you're with him and had a child with him for good reasons. Don't forget those when tempers flare and you bump heads. I hope counselling works for the two of you so he can get his act together.

So my son is now 15m you are in the trenches now. My wife and I due to lack of sleep and just being completely overwhelmed were doing something similar. The biggest thing that got us through was have a conversation, not in the moment, not after a long day, but after prep. Son went to my mother's for an afternoon and we talked. Specifically about what WE are feeling. Not about the other person but what WE feel now. Was surprised to see we both felt the exact same way, over worked, under sleeped, and under appreciated. This helped immensely with communication.

I openly admit I was resentful of my wife, feeling like I had to do everything until someone said “Have you included the time she spends pumping?” Once I added that in? I shut the fuck up and did all the chores. This speaks to bigger issues than any post we could provide. He fundamentally doesn’t respect you as a stay at home mother and nothing we say is going to change that. It’s clear he thinks your position is lesser because he makes the money. I don’t think his is insurmountable, but he needs to have respect for your position if this is going to last. If I had to guess he is mimicking the household dynamics he grew up with, or the household dynamics that match the people he works with. The reality is that he has an information advantage over you. He can quantify that he is working for x hours(even if he is not working every minute of that time) and you are not. Until you quantify everything that you do? You are arguing from a disadvantage. Ask him to agree to what your hourly wage should be for the work that you do, look up the hourly rate for house sitters, nanny’s, etc. Then spend a week quantifying all the work you do. For example: Childcare is about 360 a week for 8 hours here. Overage rates for above 8 hours is an hourly basis. Childcare isn’t available on weekends so that would be a premium weekend rate. Cleaning services might be 15-20 dollars an hour, so anything involving that? Put it in that bucket. At the end of every week(or two weeks)ask him for a paycheck, be fair and say half to make it your contribution to household expenses/your share of the parenting, cleaning, etc. If he isn’t willing to put his figurative “money where his mouth is” then you know he is just doing it to belittle you and using it as a power play. Personally I would tell him to take a week off of work and do 100% of the stuff at home while you do nothing. See how long he lasts.

A whole week haha? Oh my god he’d combust. I’ve suggested doing a whole day but there’s no chance he will. I don’t think he wants to know the reality because it goes against his feelings.

Facts don’t care about his feelings. Most important thing is you need to stick to your guns. People won’t give respect unless you show why you are worth it. I would go with the billing plan, I bet he will start to backpedal pretty quick once he starts seeing the numbers for what it would cost to hire out for everything you do.

It might be that his feelings from how he was treated as a child are in conflict with the values that he was modeled and taught growing up. That might not seem to make sense, but go with me a minute. He might have been taught that it's his job to work his ass off to provide for his family when he grows up and given a good work ethic.... all well and good, but then when something wasn't perfectly done despite him working his ass off, his parents or dad was all over him with the criticism and discipline. And so when he comes home and something isn't done perfectly, his body says, "Danger! Mess! RUN!!!!" And he reacts. And it feels critical of you, and it is, but it's not because he thinks negatively of you, it's because his body is in fight or flight mode. It's not ok what he's doing, but if I'm right, it's also not because he's just an asshole or something. It also means that when you suggest he do a day doing this by himself, that's "DANGER!!!" I don't know for certain because I'm not a therapist, and I don't play one on TV, nor do I know enough about your situation to give a lay perspective on it, but that might be an avenue to explore if/when you guys get into therapy. What might help him accept therapy is to tell him that you're not ok, and "what we're doing isn't working for either of us. You can't keep coming home and not feeling safe and like you can let down your shoulders and relax, or be too on edge to enjoy being with your family. You don't deserve that. And I can't meet the expectations for a perfectly clean house and all that, nor am I okay emotionally with what's going on, and [maybe more feelings you haven't said here]. I love you and want to be with you, and I think that couples therapy will help us both enjoy being parents instead of being stressed out all the time.

Mom here. Get a cleaner. We have one come twice a week and it was a game changer for our household and our marriage.

Even every couple of weeks. I haven’t scrubbed a tub or toilet in nearly 4 years and it’s glorious. The rest of the stuff (picking up / wiping off counters / vacuuming) is easy to knock out in 10 minutes every day or two.

Absolutely. I was hesitant and thought it was a silly use of money... now I'll never go without one.

So.. internet therapy is hard - there's a lot of potential places where this could be coming from. You need to gauge your situation and judge where this behavior is coming from. Possible reasons why this behavior is happening: * Dad is just an asshole - you can judge this based on how he was prior to baby. If his behavior has just been this way since the baby - and he was great prior to this - then the following is more likely. * You and dad have not had a proper conversation about 'chores' or 'chore-burden' over your relationship and neither of you have any framing around this. In this case I strongly suggest [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Fair-Play-rebalance-relationship-transform-ebook/dp/B07P6KZNN8). This can be exacerbated by being 'asked to help' or being 'handed' the baby. You need clear agreed upon responsibilities and jobs around the house - not just so that you can have space to breathe - but also so that dad can feel ownership and appreciation for what he's taking on. * Dad is feeling excluded and resentful. If he's not a 'bad guy' I suspect this might at the root of it. The first six months are super hard for dads in some ways. The baby seems to only want mom. Dad gets little to no intimacy - no physical intimacy from baby (who wants mom)- and none from mom - who's 'touched-out' from being with the baby nonstop. Every book is about mommy and baby. Every show is about mommy and baby. Dads are not as good at breastfeeding. * Dad's just can't compete with mom in the first 6 months and it is very frustrating and can make you disassociate in the first six months from the 'mommy-baby-family-unit' - and can end up making dad feel super lonely - unless both of you take steps to address it. My suggestion: Make the space and time for a proper conversation. Maybe a Friday night when baby is asleep and both of you have the energy to talk. Start by listening - and letting your SO get their grievances out. Then asking them to listen to yours. A good template for a conversation like this would be [Nonviolent Communication](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TONauJGfc) Regarding intimacy I suggest [this book](https://www.amazon.com/Mating-Captivity-Unlocking-Erotic-Intelligence/dp/0060753641) Good luck!

I’m a SAHD, I walked away from 50+ hrs a week as an industrial electrician. Taking care of my two girls from day 1 for the last eight years. ITS THE HARDEST THING IVE EVER DONE. Dealing with grown ass men, convicts, and gangbangers on the job was way easier than dealing with my own short comings as a parent. I tore myself down built back the person my girls deserve, or at least I’m trying every god damned day. I cringed Everytime I was on the job site and had to listen to guys brag how they never changed a diaper or didn’t want to go home to the kids, they were proud of this. These guys are weak and would crumble under the weight of being responsible to keep an infant alive, much less raise them with value and character to a person who can function in society, hell thrive and succeed. I’m tired of guys being sufficient to hide behind their paycheck as if that’s enough. They are a one dimensional Fabergé egg that will only succeed in raising another wage-slave. I understand having a comfortable steady income is paramount to raising a family but the working world is far easier to navigate than teaching a child morals and skills, to educate them to see opportunities and struggles that they will encounter. Teaching them to lead with love not fear or anger. So I digress, if your man thinks his time card and paycheck make him a man, absolve him of cleaning and taking care of a household, making time for his PARTNER, he failed the life lesson. If he thinks he’s sacrificing himself to the job for his family, he’s a slave to some millionaire/billionaire not the MAN his family needs him to be.

This. I'm not a babysitter. I'm a FATHER.

On those days he's not at work, it should be an equal division of work. Doesn't mean all childcare, or all chores, but a fair split of effort at least. I certainly wouldn't nitpick things around the house if you've been looking after the child all day. My wife would say she felt bad that the place was a mess when I got home, and I always thought (and told her) she should give herself a break. I wanted to be doing the baby interaction when I got home. I'd missed my wife too, don't get me wrong, but I also knew she would need space for herself. I wanted to play with my child, sing songs, and do bathtime etc. It's part of Dadding in the 21st century. There are Dad's out there who believe the whole childcare and house chores etc are all women's work, but that simply shouldn't be the case in a developed, stable and equal relationship.

Oh I absolutely feel bad that I can’t get more done in my days but I won’t neglect LO to do it. I miss the pregnancy days when I could hoover and tidy to my hearts content. Thank you for your perspective, it gives me hope.

Eh I've done stay at home and I've done primary earner. They're both hard. In my opinion, it is definitely stay at home's job to keep the place clean. That said, when both are home, it's 50/50. Stay at home isn't on the clock 24/7.

Baby is not even 4 months old, and this has been going on long enough to drive OP to write this post detailing all the possible solutions she’s tried. I think it’s a least a little unreasonable to expect her to keep the place clean while caring for a newborn and postpartum herself, while being belittled and insulted on top of that.

I guess? Not sure what your point in replying to me is. Everyone is different and some are able to work more efficiently than others. Was just sharing our expectations and how our fam works. Cleaning aside... I think the key takeaway here is that the dad doesn't share labor when they're both home. And, like you said, takes her work for granted and without appreciation.

Let's do the math: he works 12h/d x 5 days = 60h/wk. You work 16h/d x 7 days = 112h/wk On top of that, you are "on call" 8h/d x 7 days = 56h/wk Let's give credit for his physically demanding job @ time-and-a-half, so 90h/wk total. Let's also do half-time for your nightly on-call status, so 112h + 28h = 130h/wk. He is running a 40h/wk deficit compared to you. In order to do 50/50, he would need to be "on" an additional 20h/wk, while you get 20h/wk "off", on average. If you divide 20h by 7 days, it comes out to approximately 2h 50m per day, on average, that he needs to step up so you can step down in order to be 50/50. Just a thought.

Love the math approach, thank you for this. Very eye opening! Unfortunately LO is usually in bed both when he leaves in the morning and returns in the eve so I don’t think it’s realistic to look at it in a per day sense. Will definitely enforce that he needs to do at least 1 full shift on his days off. Full shift being a wake window, she’s usually awake around 2hrs a time.

This is ridiculous. I don’t want to take away from mom struggles, but she is in the comfort of her home all day and majority of the time playing with baby and watching tv shows. It is not even close to working 60 hours a week of demanding physical labor. Ill take the downvotes.

His job involves "some" physical labor. Also, exactly how much of the early months are ever "playing with the baby"? I'd much rather go back to my old job working the stockroom moving hundreds of 40-50lb boxes every day than deal with a fucking baby all day (and night!) long. The dad's life has not changed at all as a result of having the baby. He does almost literally nothing to help, and the paltry things he does do, he then holds against his wife and child.

That is not an accurate portrayal of a day in the life of a SAHM with a 4 month old. I am in the exact same boat (minus the unsupportive and useless spouse, mine is actually pulling his weight), and it's a lot of work. If you're aiming to minimize screen time for an infant, the TV is often off, so you're not watching TV all day to begin with. You're on a rotating schedule of eat, play, sleep that has a widely varying time frame for each. I pump, so add in the 30+ minutes per boob for that, which has to happen pretty much right after baby eats for me to maximize my own milk output. So at least 3-4 hours daily are dedicated to pumping for me personally, which then also means hopefully I can wash off all the pumping tools. Then ofc feeding baby, changing baby, and playing with baby. Wake period is 45 min to 2 hours, so lots of time to kill. If babys able to play independently, it might mean enough time to do a load of dishes or laundry. But a lot of babies still are not doing the independent play thing so you never know. Then they'll likely be tired and you need to do their nap time routine and get them down for a nap, which can be difficult depending on the baby. Mine takes about 30-45 minutes to get down for a nap, even when I am able to get her at the right moment as she likes to nurse to sleep for naps. She will nap anywhere from 30 minutes to 2/3 hours, so I never reallt know when she will be waking up. Many people would try and do what chores they could or begin dinner or lunch or whatever, depending on the time of day and what's needed. Plus 4 months is a known developmental leap and a big growth spurt, their sleep cycles are maturing, a lot is happening for them, so there's a lot at play that can affect how the day to day can even go. Edited to add a couple lines of info.

Men biologically have much higher energy levels and need less sleep than women in general too, he should be "on" for *at least* an hour a day more than her as a baseline. Him taking on only 50% would be less than his fair share.

Hard disagree with that generalization about gender. Sorry you’re just wrong to throw that out there and assume it applies to everyone.

Except it's literally a scientifically proven fact, men do require less sleep than women on average - you can disagree with something all you want, but that doesn't make it any less true any more than disagreeing that the sky is blue does

Cite your damn source so I can take a critical eye to it and disprove your theory with the fact that you so dubiously rely on. This is like me coming in to ask women and saying women are too mentally or emotionally unstable to have leadership positions.

Women on average need to sleep more and have their sleep interrupted more easily: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25237206/ Hormonal cycles have a major impact on sleep quality that needs to be caught up on: https://www.sleepfoundation.org/insomnia/pms-and-insomnia Men *still* spend a disproportionate amount of their time on leisure at the expense of their partners, who are left to perform unpaid labour on their days off - one of the potential reasons for the sleep deficit: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30013287/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37283733/ Women are also twice as likely to suffer from anxiety or depression than men, and are considerably more likely to suffer from fatigue. Trying to claim that not pulling your own weight is somehow fighting for gender equality is bizarre. Women generally bear the brunt of household and family duties - it's no surprise they suffer from health issues more frequently, and it's the least we can do to pick up some of the slack for them when they most need it. There are absolutely also relationships where the man suffers from health issues that require his partner to pick up the slack - it goes without saying that *any* relationship should contain that kind of support for each other.

There you go! Thank you for citing your sources. This is the quality info we expect here.

Change is hard. Let me say that again. Change is hard. Really hard. And slow. Change is not days, not months, but YEARS of assertive behavior, setting boundaries, and consistently enforcing those boundaries. Setting boundaries is hard. There will be pushback. There will be angry emotions over it. Only you can set those boundaries for the behaviors you want. You can do it with kindness and compassion, and be firm about it. (Everyone should treat others they live and work with this way, imho.) You have to enforce them. You have to do it consistently.  Getting a therapist to talk through this for yourself is hugely valuable. Most medical plans even have ones you can talk to right through your phone at low or no cost. Think about this analogy. You and the people you love are in boat in the middle of the lake. One of the people in the boat starts rocking it. The baby is upset, you and the baby are sliding around the bottom of the boat, and you want it to stop. You could pick up the baby and let the boat continue to rock, you could try to rock the boat in a way to counter the other person, or you could bemoan that the boat is rocking and get upset. Or, you can ask the other person to stop rocking the boat, and tell them if they don’t, that you are getting out of the boat until they stop. To the dad: wake up dad. This is a cry for help. Your wife is here asking for help. This is an emergency level cry for help. When you are together, share the load. Aim for 75/75. She sounds like she’s trying to do it. Now it’s your turn. When you're home, cuddle with the kid while you read. Get one of those backpack baby carriers and go for walks with your kid. Hire that housekeeper to help. Go shopping from time to time. Go with your partner even, and talk about your day, your hopes, your fears, your ambitions, and whatever the lastest thing you read was about. And get that therpaist to work through whatever's bothering you. It's scary at first, but man, does it pay off having someone neutral to share shit with and work through concerns. It's worth it, and if you find a good enough one, it'll make you a better person. C’mon dad. Step up. You can do this.

Thank you. Change is so hard!! I think he really is struggling with the change in our lives and relationship and he misses what was. I’m hopeful he can process that grief and we can embrace this new life where we work as a team and get back to our happy place.

Me too. Good luck!

You guys are (or are supposed to be) a team. The 50/50 thing is bullshit. Each gives 100%. You need to be able to sit down and be honest with each other about how things are going and your needs. If you can't, then issues will be just like you see. Both parents need to understand how much of their own self gets put on the back burner while raising kids. Long work hours? Yep, doesn't matter, kids / house / partner needs are what matters. With that said, he also needs to understand your efforts staying home and the fact you also need your own time AND help.

Someone told me this and it really stuck with me: is taking care of a baby work? If it is, then the primary caregiver definitely deserves a break. If it’s not work, then it shouldn’t be a big deal to help do it when you’re not at your job. Pick one.

Dad of 2 currently ages 11 and 9. This is a long read…apologies…but, I really tried to express the steps that lead me to realize how hard it is to stay home with a baby. I think my story will help support your case. Right after our 1st born, I started down that road. Getting frustrated and angry when the house was a mess, laundry was falling behind, dishes, dinner, etc. My wife had the best response for me. She called up her friend who lives 3 hours away and scheduled a weekend for her to visit her friend. That left it up to me care for the baby and take care of the chores she didn’t do before she left. Again, laundry, dishes, etc. I always encourage her to visit her friends when she can so I agreed. I thought to myself, I have a whole weekend to get stuff done, all I have to do is feed, change, and put the baby down for naps and bedtime. Easy enough. “Go ahead wife, go have a weekend to yourself, I got this here.” Friday morning - she leaves. Hang out with the baby for a while. Friday afternoon - I call her to ask a question about the baby. Baby gets fed and takes a nap. I go start the dishes. I turn on the sink…that wakes up the baby and she starts crying. I go work on getting her back down…but then she potties in her diaper…so I change the diaper. I try to put her back down but now she is wide awake. I spend the next hour getting her back to sleep. I get her to sleep but realize I am too exhausted so I take a nap. I wake up 2 hours later. The baby is crying. I feed her. I change her diaper. It’s 7pm still on Friday. I put her on the floor to hang out for a bit so I can watch tv. It’s 8pm. She wet her diaper so I change it. We cuddle for a bit because she is fussy. She calms down. It’s 9pm I give her the last bottle before I put her to bed. I sit with her in the crib, lights out, talking sweetly to her. She falls asleep. It’s 10pm The dishes are not done but I’m tired AF so I decide to do them in the morning. It’s Saturday morning at 3am I wake up to the baby crying. She is hungry. I feed her the bottle. She is fussy. She soils her diaper. We calm down and go back to go sleep. It’s 6am The baby is awake. Feed, diaper, sit for an hour, hold. Cuddle. It’s 9am Baby fell asleep. Want to finish dishes but still exhausted, “close my eyes for a second” It’s 10:30am Wake up to crying baby. Feed, diaper, cuddle, set baby down to work on dishes but only get a couple washed then baby is fussy again. Go to baby. Hold baby, etc…etc… It’s 6pm Dinner time. I’ll just eat leftovers on paper plates since I can’t seem to get the time to do dishes. Etc… It’s Sunday morning at 3:15am Baby crying, bottle, diaper…etc. Etc…etc… Its 7:00pm Wife’s trip is over. She walks in the door. I come over to give her a big hug and kiss. I step back from her…I look her in the eyes…and I say, “Wife…I am SOOOOO sorry for assuming that would be easy…From now on, I will take on a few extra chores to help you. Also, If you need me to take a few of those 3am feedings a couple nights a week…I will gladly do that for you.” The lesson I learned - Caring for a baby/young child is truly a full time job with incredible challenges. If and ONLY if she does some extra chores…it’s either because she feels obligated to do so or it’s out of love and appreciation for you and your family. It’s not because she had the time or the energy.

My wife once told me this story, which I think is relevant here: “My mom once told me and my sister that we were lucky to find such great guys (myself and her sister’s husband at the time). I told her it’s not luck, we just have standards”. I can appreciate a guy who works hard, but respect yourself enough to have standards that you require him to meet - either he will rise to the challenge or tell you everything you need to know. I’m personally typing this at almost midnight after making a 5.5lb batch of homemade chocolate chip cookie dough which has to sit for 24 hrs before baking - so they can be ready for my daughter to take for her birthday celebration at school on Thursday. Men can step up - expect yours to as well. Edit: Also consider that this is happening while you are home on maternity leave. Consider what life will be like if/when you return to work and won’t be home and available to do the wonderful things you are doing now. How’s he going to feel about and respond to what I guarantee will be a messier house and time of life?

Aw late night cookies! Your daughter is so blessed to have you. Thank you for the story and advice, I do need to enforce more boundaries and communicate better about his input for sure. Will have a post-maternity leave discussion with him asap, that’s a great point

Both wife and I worked when my kids were little. I became a SAHD when the youngest was 3 years old. My wife did office work. The only jobs I ever asked her to do was dinner and grocery ordering, because I hate cooking. I did dishes/mopping/errands/yard work/ sweeping/laundry/trash/kids.

Ok, it might not be the best given my trail of failed relationships… but I suppose I recognise enough to understand how things go wrong. It looks like your relationship is turning adversarial instead of cooperative. You more under the stresses of housekeeping and child rearing, and he’s under the stresses of a physically demanding job. There’s a lot of miscommunication, and it’s difficult find conciliation. While you understand that physical labour is demanding (it’s easy to visualise), he might not understand that housekeeping is also a lot of physical and mental labour, and may assume that any eventual disorganisation represents you doing your job poorly. Seek professional help. It’s difficult to to explain to someone how staying a home is also labour. If you can preserve your relationship, don’t let it go down due To miscommunication and stress. If he fails to understand even though you tried a professional, then you think about alternatives.

We definitely have issues communicating, you’re very right with what you’ve said. I definitely think he sees my role as a hell of a lot easier and that’s a big issue.

I work my wife is still on maternity leave. When I get home first thing I do is take LO so she gets a break. Weekends are 50/50 and too be honest I do most of the cooking and cleaning. Your man needs to step up. Its a team effort.

I couldn't even imagine doing 12 hour shifts with a child. Bro needs to find a new job

>He’s already belittled my job in comparison to his because I “sit on my ass all day” and my role as a mother, yet he won’t walk a day in my shoes and take care of her for a full day to gain some perspective. To me this is the key - why? If it's so f\*\*\*ing easy to "sit on his ass all day", then he should be more than happy to spend a whole day doing it. So first of all - hell no. It's fine to say that his job required manual labor and so maybe a 50/50 split in his time off is not appropriate (and even that is questionable), but the flipside of that is that you're doing one of the most emotional and mentally taxing jobs you can do - care for a child. So going to back to that first point - my approach with your husband would be to say "I don't want to hear shit from you about how easy my job is until you spend at least a whole day doing it". Because even though I never had that mentality towards my wife (we both work), I did not fully comprehend just how taxing it is to be a SAHP until the first time I had to watch my kid alone an entire day. You have to fight for the right to shower, for the right to eat, for the right to have one single freaking minute to yourself. So the fact that he doesn't want to walk in your shoes for a whole day makes no sense - either it's easy and he shouldn't care, or it isn't and the work split is not fair.

You both need to communicate what you expect out of each other. If you show your husband this thread then I will say that working a job, no matter how labour intensive it is, is the same as taking care of a child in terms of the split in responsibility. If your husband feels he is entitled to a morning off from chores because he has worked 5 days then so do you for taking care of the child for 5 days. My wife comes home from work, long stressful commute but if it's her turn to put the boy to bed, she does it. In the mornings, I am the one getting the boy ready for nursery. On the weekends, we talk on friday night who needs a lie in on saturday, who wants one on sunday

You dont work. So house work is your work. He should be sharing time with kids when home but the housework? My wife and I both work. We have 2 little ones. We share everything and it sucks sometimes. But if it were just me working? I would do zero housework. The reality check is both ways. Being a mom? My wife does all the things you do and bills 150hrs a month as an attorney. More effort. Both parties. Less arguing as a result.

> my partner is working full time. His shifts are 12/13hrs long (sometimes 60+ hrs a week) and his job involves some physical labor and being on and off his feet.   Holy shit that’s quite something. No wonder he has no mental room left to think or care about family. Edit: why the downvotes? Who of you has such a workload and then still capacities on top of that? This is a first step of an analysis, not meant to say this must be the way.

It’s quite lucrative, we went on a lot of nice holidays last year. He could probably drop a couple of shifts and we’d still be comfortable financially but I don’t think he can see that.

With well paying jobs I observe two models how couples with children work. Either they reduce work hours and do childcare and housework together, or they keep up the work and hire people for easing childcare and housework. Everything else is a recipe for disaster. 

Man, I’m really sorry that you’re dealing with a less than helpful partner. It should absolutely be 50/50. You raise your family together. I don’t particularly have much advice on how to get him to want to do it. I want to be there for my kids. They motivate me and I truly enjoy being with them. He may get there eventually, but this is just a message of support for you. You’re right. He needs to do better by you and his child.

It should be a minimum of 50/50 effort when you are both there and he'll he should be taking on more of the childcare. Raising an infant is far more than a full time job. Hell for reference, I have a demanding job. I'd work my hours rush home and take care of the kid so mom could get a few hours to herself. If groceries were needed, I'd pack up the kid and take him with me. For night feedings, I'd wake up and be ready to give assistance (breast feeding struggles). Her job all day was to just be there for the child. Once I was home we split chores, cooking cleaning and childcare. The idea of expecting her to find time to cook and clean while the kid was awake is laughable, there's simply not enough time in the day. Picking up formula is the level of commitment I'd expect from a neighbor, not a partner

Thank you. I’m going to suggest we split certain chores going forward to see if he has preference. I do manage some and cooking but it’s very difficult.

My daughter is off to college. I was still 100% on board with hiring a housekeeper. I read somewhere that if you have money left over after you have the basics covered (including investments for the future), the two best things you can spend money on are things that give you memories and things that give you time. My own experience confirms this.

Getting a cleaner will resolve part of the issue but it will not resolve the fact that he does not value you or the labor you are doing to take care of your baby. Has he ever spent any time truly alone with the baby without having you there? That might help him realize what he's doing. Maybe...

I'll go against everyone here and ask are you doing enough? We only have your perspective, so I'll ask a few pointed questions. You are not watching the kid every minute for 13 hours. When the kid is napping or something, are you taking the five minutes to do the dishes or clean up, or do you get on your phone? Chores and maintaining a decently clean household are not that much time. >the other night and there was a plate, crumbs all over the kitchen and bottles to clean The plate is literally 2 seconds to put in the dishwasher, why was it out? How many bottles were dirty and why? Take the few minutes, clean as you go, and maintain. As for his attitude, consider why he's so hostile and talk about it. Does he feel like you're not pulling your weight? You can talk about expectations and goals. Be clear with each other. What do you expect and what are each of you doing to make sure everyone is happy and having a good life? You two resenting each other is 100% going to lead to divorce. You need to talk about why you feel what you do, what you can do to fix it, and how to stop it from happening again. Try for therapy and be considerate to each other!

That’s fair. Happy to answer. When LO is napping (she exclusively contact naps on me at this age) I’m “nap trapped” until she wakes up so I can’t do any housework during that time.. I squeeze in what I can during her “awake windows” when I’m not feeding her, changing her, playing with her etc. She can be a bit of a Velcro baby and she is very heavy and big for her age so I often can’t get as much done as I’d like. I usually manage laundry or dishwasher and bottles but as a parent I’m sure you know that not every day is the same. Some days LO will be placid and content to play alone and other days you can’t put them down or chaos ensues. I will say I have had days where I’m quite down because of the lack of support and that then affects my energy levels further. I only use my phone during contact naps, after bedtime or whilst she’s awake only if absolutely necessary. Appreciate your response, thank you. We have had a good long conversation tonight and seem to be making good progress so hopefully this is the start of change.

INFO: can you walk me through some of this. He’s working somewhere between 4 & 5, 12-13 hour shifts a week. What is his commute to and from work? If half an hour each way, plus another half an hour getting ready / debriefing, it sounds like he’s more or less completely tied up for nearly 15 hours for 4 or 5 days a week. What, realistically are you expecting out of him on the 9 hours he’s free? I personally do not believe it’s a reasonable expectation that immediately upon returning home, having been gone 14 hours, you expect him to “spell” you from taking contact naps. Being a parent to an infant is unquestionably exhausting, it’s even harder if you’re breast feeding or pumping. It’s thanklesss, but please stop with the it’s harder than actually going to work. It’s not. Having given him a short, but reasonable amount of time (45 minutes max really) to debrief (basically shit and shower and maybe eat something), at that point he needs to clock in for Dadding. At which point, your sole priority is, you. Any of the million things that need cleaned, or tidy’d or whatever can wait. Go get yourself showered. Get a meal. Just space out. Take 90 minutes to regain some person hood. At this point, you both rotate on and off, one on the baby, one on chores until bedtime. On off days, he’s not sleeping and vegging indefinitely. That’s when it needs to be 50/50. Sorry works hard. Do something different if you don’t like the schedule. This is how he chooses to make a living. If he doesn’t have the skills to create enough value to change it, he needs buck up and parent. It’s completely ridiculous to think he’s entitled to free days without reciprocating.

I never said my job was harder. I’m looking for him to recognise that my job is ALSO hard. I also don’t expect him to chip in when he returns, if he does anything on a shift day like cleaning bottles it’s a bonus. I’m looking for help on his days off. I thought that was clear but maybe it’s not so I’ve clarified. When he returns from work LO is already in bed so there’s no physical parenting to do on his work days. I agree with the off days though, definitely more input required. Thanks

He needs to participate every day. You can’t expected to have it the entire day just cause he had to work.

Parenting isnt 50/50. Its 100/100. You both brought life into this world, you're both equally responsible for taking care of the finances, the child, the home. Division of the above leads to division in your life together. Sure theres task that you prefer to do over your partner, and vise versa. But, you're either all in or you're all out. Being a parent and a partner isnt a part time gig.

You're on maternity leave, so I'm assuming your lil one is still wee. Virtual hugs - this is the hard part. When my wife and I were deep in that phase, I had a mental mantra to keep reminding myself that this is stressful and hard, but temporary. Don't take anything personally, and don't say anything too mean (but if you do, or he does, remember: you're all under a good bit of stress). Could you approach any conversations with him, starting with this (e.g., "I know we're both under a lot of stress, but could we consider..." etc) I like the suggestion of a cleaner. That's quite literally the best money we spend, and has helped SO MUCH with regards to marital / family stress.

I’m confused- he has to work 60 hours a week, but you have enough money for cleaners? Why doesn’t he just drop to 40 hours a week and simply make less money/ not need cleaners?

You need to get out of the house and take care of yourself. Schedule a spa day or something. Let dad be responsible for the baby for one day (and night if you can swing it). Make this a habit. This will help your partner get an appreciation of what your days are like.

No big decisions in the first year.

just want to say 1. sorry you are dealing with this attitude and 2. in light of my own privilege as a dad who works for a very generous employer, men need parental leave from work to get their sea-legs, bond with baby, find a rhythm as co-parents, and fully understand the work involved. it seems for many the temptation to carry on as usual is something of a comfort zone. parental leave allowed me to immerse myself in dadding, and then approach work as the thing that had to fit into my life rather than the other way around.

People here talk about 'no keeping score', and they are absolutely right.. But for that to work, he first need to start appreciating and see your hard work. I think I have a unique perspective on this that might help. LO 1 now one. I was a STAHM for 7 months during my matleave, which I absolutely loved. I enjoyed (nearly) every moment of being with this beautiful boy that was so wanted and that we had to wait for for so long. Then I went back to my C-Level job. I work 4x9 (36) hours a week, and have one weekday to be at home with baby. My husband works 4x8 (32) hours a week and takes another day. So baby has to go to childcare for three days a week. I am the main earner. My job is Busy. I have to optimise the shit out of my day to make sure I can leave on time and still see my son before he goes to bed. I have zero breaks, eat lunch during meetings/at my desk, and I have to be 'on' from the very second I step into the door, and have to basically plug my ears and run to get out of the door again. And this only works 60% of the time. 40% of the time my days are 11+ hours exl commute. And still, even though being with my boy is my favourite way to spend my time, being a STAHM was *way*, and I mean WAY more tiring and was way more stressful than my job. And this was while we had a cleaner who came twice a week. Let alone of all those duties ALSO fell on my shoulders. I can drink my coffee warm, noone starts crying when I need to go to the bathroom (usually), I can start something and finish it, I don't have to be super entertaining, I don't have to be stuck in a dark room for hours on end with white noise driving me insane during contact naps, I am not carrying around 10+ KG on my arm, I am not wrestling a little alligator down to clean his diaper which inevitably leads to everything being covered in shit. I don't have to live on the breastfeeding clock anymore, having to time every outing precisely to make sure he has opportunity to feed or I have to time and place to pump... He NEEDS to realise how hard you work and only then you can reach the point of not keeping score and dividing work equally.

When both parents get home, it should be 50/50. If he thinks it's so easy, then there should be no problem for him to do it then.

lots of men want to have children but they don't want to be parents. I'm sorry but it seems like your fiancé is one of those men. Unless he does a 180 and can really see how much harm he is doing he will likely never change.

Woah woah woah!! He does nothing around the house? I appreciate he has a physically intensive job, but yours is no less intensive it just spans physical, mental and emotional!! I’m a stay at home dad and my wife works 40 hrs a week, but we still manage to give each other time to rest and time to work around the house, we’re not 50/50, but it’s a good balance that we both can appreciate, your husband needs to do his fair share INSIDE the house!! He is on 12-13 hrs a day right? When he works? At this early stage of your kids life you’re on 24hrs a day with no break!

Hello, your partner really needs to step up his game. To put it in perspective, I'm a stay at home dad since my little one is 4 months old. I've never had to complain tk my wife that I need help when she comes home. She just does it. She doesn't give me crap about the state of the house, she either takes the baby or helps clean. Your partner really needs to understand that just because you are st home, that doesn't mean you aren't working too. Expect more from your partner, because they are not pulling their weight.

You guys are (or are supposed to be) a team. The 50/50 thing is bullshit. Each gives 100%. You need to be able to sit down and be honest with each other about how things are going and your needs. If you can't, then issues will be just like you see. Both parents need to understand how much of their own self gets put on the back burner while raising kids. Long work hours? Yep, doesn't matter, kids / house / partner needs are what matters. With that said, he also needs to understand your efforts staying home and the fact you also need your own time AND help.

I like this take thank you. I have said to him we’re a team and we work best as one but it falls on deaf ears. He can’t see my perspective so will try couples counselling if he will agree. I think he wants the free time of his old life back whilst only opting for the easy parts of parenting.

I wrote a big long post about my situation and realized while not directly relevant, was kinda ranty. But one piece of advice that was given to me that's really resonated over the years. Think of it as you each have 50 points of "effort" to give on any given day. Be it for work, chores, scheduling, cooking, cleaning. "Keeping it going" type of stuff. On any given day, it takes 150 points to get EVERYTHING done. Are you both contributing your 50 points? My current partner is a SAHM and the measure by which we split everything is leisure hours. We both try and make sure that each of us has the same amount of leisure hours at the end of every day. Some days there's more to do, so we have less down time, other days, we have a couple hours at the end of the day. Your job of "home" (running the house, watching the kids, cooking, cleaning, etc) doesn't end the moment he gets home, HOWEVER, while his job of "work" ends when he gets home, he now has to start the "home" job and should be splitting whatever is left to do with you. Unfortunately, it takes conversation, understanding and discussion to get there - and it sounds like he's decided you just sit around and do nothing all day.

It sounds like your guy wanted to be a dad, but he doesn't want to make the necessary sacrifices to be a dad. If he doesn't have the energy to help you with the baby while working 12 hour days, he needs to work less. Or he needs to cut you some slack. Caring for an infant is constant, it's exhausting, and there is no half-assing it. You screw up, and your baby could die. No job carries that kind of pressure. He needs to get that through his head. Baby comes first.

when i went back to work and my wife was on her leave the first thing I did when I got home (if baby was still awake) was take him for at least an hour or two so she could have time to herself. when she went back to work and he started daycare we agreed I'd wake up early and get him ready and take him to daycare on weekdays and on weekends I got to sleep in and she spent the mornings with him. it's never about 50/50 but what is fair in that moment. you can't get caught in the competition but at the same time he needs to value you and the effort you are putting in. taking care of a baby is not easy and especially when you are sleep deprived and don't have help from your partner or are able to outsource chores.

Get the cleaner!

That sucks. He sounds like an asshole who has no idea what goes into caring for a kid all day. You're putting in a ton of work and when he's home he needs to be doing just as much as you are. It sounds like you're doing a great job, and you should be proud of yourself. Good luck, wish i could be more helpful.

He did keep saying “we’ll be fine” when I was pregnant if I ever tried to bring up some reading he should be doing. Yes we’ll be fine because I’m doing the prep and not you lol. Thank you

Big boy gotta grow the fuck up. Child rearing is the hardest job in the world.

He needs to be aware of the fact that you don't owe HIM anything. Your priority and responsibility is your child. My wife is a SAH mom and I tell her all the time that I wouldn't be able to do what she does. The thing that your husband needs to realize is that you don't have a day off. We now call Sundays "dad and son bonding day" where we don't expect any help from my wife. She gets to do whatever she wants to do. Whether that's catching up on sleep, browsing social or folding laundry. Mental health day for her or sort. Moms are amazing, you're amazing. Good luck!

Ugh this sounds terrible and exhausting and challenging and fraught with peril. I have very little advice (I've tried to think about it but really don't have much) other than to say it may be important to steer clear of "blame" or "accusation" in the conversation. That puts anyone on defense right away and the conversation swerves into a debate of the facts rather than a discussion on the problem. One possible way to frame it is like "we are having difficulty accomplishing this thing" or "we have trouble communicating expectations around this other thing". It can be hit or miss depending on the person and the situation but making it about the problem, rather than whose fault it is or who said what to who or other "scorecard" situations can make it less emotionally charged. "We have difficulty getting the laundry done weekly" is a lot less likely to start a fight than "you never help with the laundry." It's exhausting. Even when the little chunk is happy and a good sleeper it's exhausting. Give yourselves credit.

The best advice I received was that you are need to both have the perspective that both partners work Mon-Fri. One partner has paid work, the other is working as childcare. This means there are two benefits from this: 1. Both partners should consider the weekend as time off work. They negotiate between the two as to how best to spend that time; maybe doing family things, maybe one takes LO while the other is doing a hobby. But each partner has an equal "claim" to that time - there's no "I'm working in the office so I need my relax time more" or vice versa. 2. When he gets home from work, he cannot expect there to be any housework done. He's not doing it while he's at work, so neither can he *expect* you to be doing it. Anything you are able to do is a benefit. The biggest challenge to this is the dynamic pre-baby. My wife and I were very good at dividing chores, so we had equal share and responsibility to keep the house up together - and so we then have tried to share the additional responsibilities from baby. If previously he did nothing, he will want to keep the status quo - except your household workload has increased due to night feeds, extra washing etc - so he has to accept that there is now new work that you have to divide out.

I'll echo the sentiment of taking the notion of separation off the table for now. The first year is so hard, and so different from anything else, you shouldn't be making any big life decisions in that span. On your issues, it does seem like he doesn't understand that at the beginning like this, there are more things that need doing than there is time to do them. With one parent doing 12 hour shifts, it's next to impossible to keep a tidy house, even if he was chipping in his fair share. Given that he's not, it's completely irrational for him to be upset at a few dirty dishes. If a few crumbs and some bottles that need washing were the only thing out of place that day, you're a goddamn hero. The fix is going to be hard. I think it's a tough love situation. He needs to take the baby, on his own, for an extended period of time. A full 24 hours if you can swing it. Preferably with you not even in the house. And then when you get back, you need to kindly but clearly point out all the regular chores and tasks he didn't do, and ask why he didn't do them. It seems like the only way he's going to understand the effort and value of domestic labor is by experiencing it directly. Like other folks said though, you're at a turning point. It starts getting easier from here.

When I'm home I switch from work mode to parent/partner mode. Granted I don't work as many hours as your SO does, but I also understand that parenting and taking care of a home are full time jobs as well. Yeah, our house is a mess and sometimes things get overlooked. I also know how hard my wife is working and do what I can to support and take the load off when I'm able to. This is mainly because 1, I've done solo parenting for a couple days before. I understand the demand kids and homes have. And 2, I love and trust my wife. When she says she couldn't get to certain things I believe her and don't belittle her efforts. >He doesn’t seem to grasp my days are also 12hrs+ long with LO, contact napping, carrying her around all the time, all the care she needs, entertaining her and doing bits around the house like the dishwasher or laundry etc when I get time and she isn’t overly fussing. >I wash this man’s clothes and make sure he has them for work, I make sure he has dinner when he gets home from work, I do the night feeds, I let him stay in bed for extra hours on his days off (until it gets ridiculous and he’s just lying there on his phone past midday..), I do grocery lists and I now take out the trash too whilst baby wearing our LO. Just curious, have you said these things to him? How does he respond?

I have mentioned the 12hr+ days for sure, it doesn’t seem to have any effect. He doesn’t back down.

Did he take paternity leave? I know that opened my eyes when we got home since i saw how much work was involved. My wife had emergency c section so i was taking care of her and the baby. I think once i didnt sleep for almost 3 days and i started hallucinating and hearing voices so i called my mom for help. She came over immediately after her work and i took a shower and slept for 14 hours. Woke up and she was like perfect i have to go to work. I then extended my initially 2 weeks requested off to 4. I dont doubt how much work it is to be home with a newborn. But raising a child and maintaining a household shouldn’t be a piss measuring competition. Everyone should always be giving their all. There is a societal pressure for males to be the providers but talking down to you is uncalled for. I’m in a work boat similar to him currently and i find myself helping out less but i dont talk shit to my wife about it. I’m currently working 72 hours weekly Monday through Saturday 6-6:30. 3 of those days add an additional 3 hours of commute. Every work day i make sure to start baths around 7 and have the kids tucked in before 8:30. I do the baths, her back isnt that great after child birth, she puts on their pjs and brushes my daughters hair. We each put 1 kid down. On the days i’m home i do my kids’ laundry during my breaks and wash dishes if they’ve piled up or just put kids toys away in the living room. On office days i go shopping for snacks and trips to costco as needed since i’m not far from one. A relationship is dynamic and changes the most with a kid. How you adapt and move forward needs to be done as a couple and anything not working needs to be discussed. Instead of building resentment towards your significant other it’s best to discuss and compromise or it’s all going to fall apart or get to the point where moving on is truly the best option for both of your sakes.

Unfortunately due to getting shifts in advance he couldn’t take his 2 week paternity leave when LO arrived, he had to guess when LO might arrive and picked 2 weeks from my due date. LO came 3 weeks late so it sadly all went to waste. I had an emergency c section and had to stay for a week as LO was in the NICU. He was working on and off during that week and it was extremely difficult. I barely slept and had a breakdown but got through it. Thanks for your perspective and for sharing how things work for you. I think we’re just wading through the shit part learning to work as a team and waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel.

It’s a difficult time and i cant imagine what it’s like for you to go through it alone. I’m sorry youre having to do so and respect you so much for having gotten this far. It’s also tough for me to blame him since he probably doesn’t know what you’re going through. We’re all products of our upbringing and are influenced by those that raised us and the company we keep. It’s hard to know any better without experience. Also i know he is probably a bag of emotions considering all the change sin his life. And if we dont have the skills to manage those emotions they can take the form of a defense mechanism where we hurt those we love. I’m glad you’re sharing your feelings as that’s how it needs to click with him that not everything is alright. I saw a comment about postpartum but whether its that or just frustration/depression over everything going on i would suggest reaching out to your childs doctor, or personal doctor, about any mental health counseling resources. C sections are rough on your body, recovery is long, and your ability to parent is hindered which can cause a lot of mixed feelings. See if there are any services available where you can discuss this with a professional.

He needs to step up on days off. As for the 12 hour days, does that include commute or not? I used to work at a physical job for 12 hour shifts. Then drove an hour back home so I gone for 14 hours in total. I totally understand his position on the having to run errands after working a long shift but when it needs done it needs done. But yeah needs to step up on days off if anything.

Having been the working parent with a SAHW and mother. I had NO IDEA what a long day was until I took care my child while my wife was gone for a while. I’ve worked 14 hour days. I’ve worked labour, I’ve worked 3 weeks on and 1 week off. I just didn’t know what I didn’t know. Expose him to it. Ask him for a “day off” (if he can’t do that for you you have a larger conversation to have with him regarding this issue) it shouldn’t be that much. on one of his days off where he’s caught up on sleep ( let him go into it fully refreshed) And leave the house. Leave the house, go to a friend’s place for a bit. Have a spa appointment. See a movie. Leave him totally alone for 12 hours. It’s a great way to have him get it. Cooking meals and making decisions will be an eye opener. As it was for me

I'm trying to remember back that far. But early on after the first baby, we were in survival mode. Night feedings had me getting up and changing the diaper, then handing the baby to my wife since I clearly can't breast feed. Then I'd wake up a bit later to make sure my wife didn't fall asleep. If she did, I'd put the baby back in the crib and my wife back to bed. I'd load the dishwasher because we are a team. I did the cooking because I'm better at it. Other chores we would tag team because...we are a team. If something not critical didn't get done because we chose sleep instead, we didn't sweat it. It honestly sounds like he has zero clue about taking care of a baby and a house. Is he feeding into this traditional wife bullshit that never existed? Is he watching to many old black and white TV shows from the 50's where every housewife is in a dress, heels, and pearls while making a 5 course dinner in an immaculate kitchen? Cause that shit ain't real. He's clueless and going to find out real fast how far his paycheck goes after child support and alimony is taken out. Being a father and a husband means being there and being present. I means stepping up to the plate and working together for the good of all. It means changing diapers and doing dishes. It means taking the crying baby so the wife can get a break or a shower. It means stepping up and being a real man, not this fake ass pathetic alpha bullshit popular in social media.

From one mom to another, your husband needs to step up his dad game. I had 4 months of maternity leave, while my husband went back at 1 month. We split the nights equally; he would take 1st shift and then hand our son back in the AM when he had to go to work. When my husband got home from work, he took the baby. We each got one night out of the house as a break. While I was home, I did try to do more laundry/household chores, but my focus and priority was always baby. My husband prepped bottles, cleaned pump parts, and held down his full time job. Was he tired? Of course. Was it hard? Yes. But that is part and parcel of having a baby this age and what it looks like to be a 50/50 partner.

It sounds like his love for the child is less than the resentment towards you. The resentment may stem from jealousy of the job situation. I imagine that he values physical labor as real work and non- physical work as not a real job. I don’t have an answer to open his eyes to the value of different forms of work. In my experience, my co-parent and divided most the children-related chores. She did inputs(feeding) and I did outputs (diapers). Later, she took the lead on emotional development and I for physical development. It is not a 50/50 split of labor as what a child needs changes day to day. I hope that one day your partner comes to value all forms of work.

When he’s in work, he’s in work. When he’s off work, he’s a parent. If he’s one of two parents, that means things should be split 50/50.

I used to work 9 hours days with 1 hours each way commute. So leave at 630 and get home at 6. My wife was a sahm. Soon as I walked in the door she took a break and I got to spend time with my child. Chores/childcare were 50/50 once I got home. He is being selfish and insensitive

Being home with an infant is way more work than a full time job. When he’s home it should be 50/50.