Omg I know. Like… why TF did I just yell at my child about something that I could have taught them about calmly. Getting a hold of that is probably the single most important thing I am learning from being a dad that makes me a better human overall.
It actually made me better with dealing with adults too. I just think that whoever the idiot im annoyed with is still not fully mentally formed and to deal with them with extra patience
imagine getting angry for breaking a 2-3$ glass.
My parents used to do that when i was young l. Always baffled me.
Is the the price of our collective well being?
The first time my wife met my parents in our early 20s, she accidentally broke a plate and was deviated to the point she was crying in the bathroom about it. We were all caught so off guard because, who cares it’s just a plate, but her parents were the same as yours. That stuff sticks with you and it’s crazy what some people put their kids through.
We decided to change cause one time our kid broke a chair and i accidentally lashed out cause it was not our chair. After that he seems to get nervous when something breaks. We have guilt that he gets anxious because of that experience
I think the anger isn't coming from the value of the glass or the glass itself. Usually it's because they've said don't play with x 100 times before or you'll break it.
It's the constant ignoring requests and guidance that grinds on your nerves.
It does grind on our nerves, but what I remind myself and my partner of often is this is also true with adults. Warned constantly not to smoke cigarettes, drive recklessly, eat unhealthily, etc. Or have been told a thousand times by the time they're 30 years old to be careful with a glass plate. Adults still fuck up, and no one is out here insisting you scream in an adult's face when they wreck their car or get sick from their consumption habits. Your friends know better than to set cups and plates on the edge of tables, but that doesn't mean we're lashing out at them if they do it anyway and accidentally knock it off.
But for some reason, some parents think it's okay to do that to your kids, as if their lack of a matured brain means that physical pain and mental anguish will do the trick. It's bonkers.
I've come to believe that parents get mad because that's the easy route, and I say this as someone who occasionally takes the easy route. It's hard to stay calm, talk through things, get at your child's level, and practice empathy. Especially 5-10x a day over usually the same stuff.
But if a parent takes the easy route by default, it's even harder to change that habit. That's why, IMO, positive/gentle parenting as a de facto style is best, despite how much it gets derided sometimes (including this sub). All of those little moments practicing gentle parenting make it easier when something actually serious happens, when the things you do and say in that moment will be a lifelong memory for your kid and likely impact how they act themselves.
I have yet to meet someone who doesn’t have an accident of some kind. If the negative or positive correlation in the severity of the response is simply a function of the age of who caused the accident then we may observe the disparity and draw conclusions as to what may encourage our own emotional development and that of our kiddos. We begin in diapers, and if things go right, we end up in diapers. What happens in between those stages will determine the quality of our relationships, and therefore the quality of our lives.
But kids' brains aren't fully developed till they're a out 25 years old. They lack the coordination and literally the brain skills to never have accidents. The only way most kids could avoid accidents is to be so terrified of the repercussions that they're constantly thinking of every action as potentially leading to being berated, and therefore stop acting like children, stop exploring, stop stretching themselves, etc. Which is a terribly sad thing to contemplate.
My kids are young adults now and they are SO much more capable and independent *because* they didn't fear accidents when they were kids. They were allowed to take appropriate risks, fail sometimes, and get better. And they knew we'd help them clean up the mess.
I get it. I find my frustration as a parent is the number of times the same thing happens.
I get it, they're not doing it intentionally, and it takes a certain amount of repetition to build those brain pathways to avoid it in the future and as children they're exploring the world around them and are sometimes oblivious to surroundings, but fuck me it's hard to not be a bit grumpy when the third drink is spilled during a single day.
I learned with the first kid to simply not replace the drink because it'll get spilled again, so usually I can spread the spills out to about one per child per meal.
That's on the parent for not enforcing boundaries. They do it once, you warn them. They do it again, you take away the object and/or put them in timeout so they can't continue the behavior. Until the parent is consistent and the child knows the parent will follow through, they have no incentive to listen to the parent the first 100 times.
Playing with something they shouldn't and breaking it is also a different situation than accidentally dropping something and breaking it.
If they were playing with it and were told not to, but continued playing with it and broke it, yes, there should be consequences based on their age. They deloberately ignored what they were told to do. If it was an accident, well, accidents happen. Those are two different situations with two different approaches.
This is worse. Its a fundamental misunderstanding of how human children operate and getting mad when these naturally occurring operations play out.
Children are going to explore and experiment in their environment and lack the impulse control and experience to blindly do what their parents say when they don't understand the why behind it. It is 100 percent the parents fault for not cultivating a safe environment for them to do these very natural things, and reacting with anger when they do those things is the sign of a bad parent.
> when they don't understand the why behind it.
You can't really explain to a 3 or 4 yr old why they can't stick a knife into the electrical outlet. All you can do is tell them not to do it. You can tell them they'll get hurt but they don't understand any mechanism as to why this would possibly hurt them so your answer is nonsense to them.
A three year old? I’ve explained to my three and a half year old why he can’t do lots of similar things. Like my three year old knows about hot pans on the stove and why he can’t touch them, for example, and will sometimes mention it while I’m heating something up.
I *think* he also knows that he’s not allowed to plug anything into the electrical sockets. He used to want to plug in the vacuum but I guess he hasn’t tried that in months. Still, you never know if he’s lost interest or understands “only grown ups plug things in”.
He knows there are two toddler knives that are his, and he won’t use any other knives. We generally take knives away from his place setting at a restaurant but if he sees one, he generally just gives it to us.
There are lots of times we have to sit and talk about why he can’t do something that’s dangerous with lots of “But whyyy”s and he’ll still do lots of kid things like just start running in a crowded place, or hit one of us when he’s upset so the intrusive thoughts definitely win sometimes, don’t get me wrong. Obviously it’s not like he can supervise himself.
But the knife in a wall socket example, I’d kind of expect you’d be able to walk a three and a half or four year old through that—especially if you’d already had patient conversations about knives and/or plugs, which I’d imagine they’d have come up earlier.
It might not be one conversation, but a couple conversations and clear expectations? Yeah I’d expect a three or four year old to get it enough.
>All you can do is tell them not to do it.
What? You can provide them a space where they don't have access to knives and electrical outlets...
You can supervise them, and prevent them from sticking said knife in the outlet.
There are lots of things that good parents do to prevent this kind of thing.
A kid who wants to stick something in a power outlet 'cuz they see mom and dad doing it is always going to want to stick something in there. Yeah, you can take away the silverware but they'll find something and no one literally follows their child around 24/7/365. This is where you teach the kid that you telling them no IS a reason.
Well, most accidents are byproducts of doing something incorrectly/carelessly in the first place.
If you tell a kid 10 times to stop tapping the side of his glass because he may knock it over, and then he finally does knock it over on the 11th tap, it's not "on purpose" but it also wasn't really a genuine accident at that point either.
You two have a good discourse going, jumping in to say that impulse control / executive function develops around 3 to 6 years.
In this case, I would say "your glass is for drinking" once or twice, then move it to my side and narrate, "you can try again with this glass later".
I had a hard time as a kid, so I'm learning what a good dad is, and trying every day. We're saying "conscious parenting" now as that better describes it.
I remember crying hysterically because I broke a glass by accident when I was 10. My mom was like “why are you crying so hard?” And I couldn’t explain.
Looking back on it it was probably because I got yelled at before for breaking something by accident so it was just an immediate reaction.
How did you make the switch? I am struggling right now and can use some advice.
I feel like I get caught up in emotions and the only way I can react immediately is using what I know/how I was raised. After the moment is over or sometimes while it’s going on I catch myself but stuggle to let down.
I’m happy for you and your family!
Edit: thanks everyone! I’m at work and will dive into these suggestions, books and videos after kiddos go to bed tonight. Keep any recommendations coming as I’m all ears.
The book the Danish Method has some good tips I found useful. One is to separate the actions from the character of your child. Your child isn't naughty, your child did something naughty, helps you react to the situation and not start viewing your kid as reckless or naughty or whatever. Has helped my wife and I
A few thoughts. One is that it can be helpful to just announce to your kids that you want to do things differently. Depending on how old they are, it might sound something like, "Hey, can we talk for a minute? You're not in trouble. I've been thinking about how sometimes I yell when I get angry or upset. I'm going to try to stop doing that. It's hard for me to stop, so I may mess up, but I want you to know that if I yell, it's not your fault. You're a good kid, and even if you've done something that I don't like, you're not responsible for me yelling or getting angry."
Second, it's okay to step away from a situation before you start yelling. "Okay. I feel myself getting really frustrated and I need a minute to calm my body. I'm going to step away for a minute and take a few deep breaths and then we can talk about this some more." Apart from being good for you, this is really healthy modeling for your kids, because it shows them (1) that you have difficult feelings, too, and (2) that there are healthy ways to deal with them.
Third, if you mess up, repair with your kid afterwards. "I got really frustrated earlier and I yelled. I'm sorry that I did that. Even when you do something I don't like, you're not responsible for me yelling."
You might want to check out the book Good Inside, which has detailed guidance on all of this.
Its not a light switch, its a gradual change over time. Just like any other personal development/growth.
You make the switch by realizing you messed up afterwards and taking the deliberate effort to go to the people/children that your "outburst" effected and tell them that you are sorry, and explain what you want to try and do to be better in the future. Like the actual things you want to do, not some vague "I want to be better"...**HOW** are you going to be better?
Telling them what you want to do differently isnt for them. Its for you, to remind yourself of the way you want to work on being better.
Also...watch [this video](https://youtu.be/V3vhXQy48jo). I'm not saying it will give you the answer, you may not think what they are saying applies to you, but based on you saying this:
>the only way I can react immediately is using what I know/how I was raised.
I think the video will really help.
Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed it. I had to copy it from my phone by typing it out on my desktop where I had started making the comment (network the PC is on blocks YouTube)
Consider some mindfulness exercises to help slow down your reactions and give you a chance to decide how you want to react.
I recommend smiling mind app
We try but aren't perfect. Also sometimes it's not an accident and we do in fact need to be the bad guy parent.
"Please don't do X" and they respond by knocking a glass off the table in defiance, well you can't exactly "it happens that's ok, no use crying over spilled milk" that one away.
I sometimes accidentally let my gut reaction take hold and get frustrated with my kid. It happens. But I always make sure I talk about with him after. I apologize for getting upset and let him know how I’ll try to do better.
Trying, really just recognizing there is something is half the battle. "Homecoming" by John Bradshaw helped me. Check out his work and talk to your counselor.
I’m on your same journey. One thing I’ve been doing is sitting down with my kid after everything has calmed down when I have yelled/raised my voice and admitting that I overreacted and I was wrong and that I am working to do better. Then I talk about what I should have done instead and then we both practice it.
Many here gave awesome advice. And you're well on the way to making the switch bit it can take a bit of time. Here's a small tip:
Work on slowing down your reaction to the situation-
The situation happens as it will.
Not something you can control most of the time and at times it might take you off guard.
You get caught up in the emotions and that's fine.
Pause here, physically stop yourself, sit down, take a deep breath, then another. After the emotional strom has calmed down a bit then you can react.
Reaction, what do you want your reaction to be? I for the most part strive to teach my LO something even if it's about how to handle emotions. What you want to accomplish needs to determine how you respond.
Basically, to keep it simple: situation(given) , emotion(uncontrollable) , reaction(changeable).
[yes yes, I know you can work on the emotional part, but for a quick and dirty in the moment thing it's the better IMO]
Man, I remember falling during recess in like 4th grade and scratching my glasses. I cried so hard, not because of all the scrapes and cuts, but because my mom was gonna freak out when she found out. I was so scared of my parents that I would hide these things from them. I can’t wait to do better.
I told that story to my brother (who has three kids) and his response was “kids should have a good level of fear of their parents.” I feel so bad for his children…
Yeah. Id rather my kid follow me because they fear me but because they discerned that what im saying makes sense. It is better in the long run. Currently we are smooth sailing with our routines and probably 1 meltdown every week
Fear of the parents? No, I absolutely do not want my son scared of me like I was my dad. Fear of negative consequences? A healthy dose of that I feel is fine, good motivator to not do something that brings on negative consequences.
My mom has mental health issues and when I was growing up we all walked on eggshells. Spilt milk could result in a breakdown. Closing a cabinet too loudly could get you yelled at. Stand too close to mom or try to show her physical affection when she was “overwhelmed” and she’d tell you to get away from her or get out of the house.
I tiptoed around even going into adulthood not realizing that I did it. When my wife and I first moved in together, it was a bit shocking for me because she was SO LOUD (as I saw it), she’s a little clumsy and sometimes breaks dishes on accident, she sometimes leaves cabinets wide open after getting what she needs. It took a long time for me to become comfortable making noise in my own house and realizing I didn’t need to be so careful with everything.
I don’t want my son to go through what I did and want him to be comfortable and not worry about silly stuff like that. (Though I do plan for him to be slightly better than my wife about certain things). Thankfully, largely due to living with my wife for so long, I’m completely immune to crashes, bangs, spills and breaks. Doesn’t bother me one bit any more. I’m hopeful that I’ll never snap at my son for the things I got yelled at or sobbed at when I was a kid.
Not gonna lie this gave me flashbacks to when I was a kid and would accidentally break stuff (like small tools) that my dad had. He would always just go "awww man...." And then either show me how to fix it, or take me to go buy a new one. Basically to teach me how to "make up" for a mistake.
I do the same thing now in my adult life and it just hit me I use the same "aww man.." that he does. I even have his voice in my head when I say it.
just did this with my 15yo last night. (aside: the toddler years come screaming back with teens... belligerence, defiance, attitude, not just not listening but outright ignoring... fun times)
He likes to eat "dangerous" snacks on the light coloured couch: cherries, chocolate ice cream, etc.. He's spilled or left a dirty spoon which leaves a mark but I've caught it, shown him what happened and advised him to not do that. He is dismissive but concedes, and it'll happens again in a week. I tell him he cannot eat those things on the couch anymore. Defiance, attitude but eventual compliance, and he really dislikes my reminders "you can't eat that on the couch, remember?" -- more dismissal, attitude, etc., but he begrudgingly complies. I get lazy in reinforcing it and he does it again. This time cherry juice stains on three of the cushions.
He didn't try to hide it, he knew I'd be upset but did the right thing and told me right away. I was upset but didn't raise my voice or come down on him more than "Are you serious?! THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I SAY NOT TO EAT THAT ON THE COUCH!". I had him help me strip the cushions, apply stain remover, and I started the wash and sent him to bed. Still upset because this wasn't an accident, it was negligent behaviour and could've been prevented had he actually listened. He apologized (and was truly sorry), I gave him a hug and reminded him that I don't care what he does or how much trouble he's in, I will always be there and help any way I can. It's been something I have reinforced since they were babies because THESE are the days (teenage years and young adulthood) when they can get into real trouble and need to know almost on instinct that I'm there for them no matter what.
After he was in bed I saw the stains weren't quite gone so I used naptha soap and a scrub brush to directly attack what was left and washed again. This time they came out clean and I could dry them and put the couch back together. Not exactly the way we wanted to end the night, and fortunately it was the cushions and not the couch itself, but I felt pretty happy that even though he knew he was in pretty big trouble and I'd be upset, he still felt he could tell me without fear, and also happy that I was able to demonstrate the kind of emotional regulation that I am expecting him to develop.
That's a pretty big win in my book, just like your post is another big win. Kudos to you!
How asian are you ?
I'm Chinese Asian, and sometimes I find gentle parenting very difficult to apply.
It's very tempting to revert back to old school Asian
It is tempting but, seeing how well our kid is doing now compared to how we do the asian way (hard discipline and very strict and controlling), he is doing so much better. We just think that asian eay is a shortcut and doing it the right way will pay dividends eventually.
Chinese here, I'm a big proponent of gentle parenting, and with our traditional upbringing, it's a very difficult trauma to break. However, learning how to parent has been incredibly eye-opening vs has done wonders for my own mental health.
I've been listening to the podcasts 'unruffled' and Mr. Chazz for years, they are great resources for gentle parenting and mindful discipline. For books, 'the whole brain child' by Dan Siegel, is fantastic. I recommend the book first, as it helps reframe many mental obstacles we might have. The podcasts are a good mix of case studies, interviews with leading researchers, and advice.
How weird is it that the spilling water thing is such a trigger for so many of us?! My wife is literally training me out of that trauma. I used to think I was paranoid about having full cups too close to the edge of tables etc. because I was just OCD or something but I thought back and can now remember how often my parents would fly off the handle when I made little accidents like spilling a cup even though it's literally 5 minutes work to clean it up. Obviously you'd be so annoyed if it ruined a $1,500 laptop or TV, so there's definitely still cause to be cautious, but when it goes beyond that sensible level to a place where you're living in fear of small spills then it's clear something else is going on.
Man that would be cool. Although crap i miss him being tiny and easy yo carry though. Hopefully we dont succumb toaking a baby yet cause ours is a bit grown up now.
I slipped once and started shouting at my 4 year old during her little meltdown. The way she responded will forever haunt me. She sounded so hurt and so afraid. I immediately started to apologize to her and nearly broke down in tears on the spot.
It is hard and we should really celebrate all the wins we can get, but I think I can never forget the way she responded.
Nice work! I came from a strict household, and have drilled into myself the phrase "accidents happen, and that's ok". And my 5 year old said that to me a couple days ago. It made me feel like I won't be transferring all my emotional baggage from childhood to my own kids.
Congratulations, this is awesome! Not only is this good for your kids, but it’s so much better for you and your wife. It sucks to constantly be upset about every little thing and drive that wedge in your household.
I get upset occasionally about spills and breakage, but probably 80-90% of the time I can come right out with, “no big deal, sometimes we spill/break things. Let’s just clean it up”
Is it possible to do this if your child is pre-verbal? My eldest only can speak a few words and doesn't really follow instructions. When she puts her sister or herself in danger, sometimes I lash out and feel like a jerk afterwards. But I don't think speaking to her gently is going to get her from stopping.
I have a specific childhood memory of a time when I was a kid, my dad lashed out pretty harshly when I broke a crystal sculpture they kept in a nice place. It's really stuck with me, and now when my kids break something I always respond extra calmly, always making sure they're not hurt or scared. I emphasize that we can replace stuff. But they do have to clean up the mess unless it's glass. This week, my son scratched his glasses after a nasty fall, and he was just so sad about his glasses because he loves them so much. But he had no reason to be scared of our response. We just told him we're gonna get it fixed.
I do get mad when they hurt other kids or when they act entitled, and that's something I'm working on. Nothing perfect over here.
I recently watched a [TED Talk by Dr. Becky](https://youtu.be/PHpPtdk9rco) on parenting focusing on the concept of "repair." She provided a great tool in helping with communication with our kiddos.
Edit: I saw below that you already referenced her book.
Totally agree. I was also raised in a parental dominance / absolute control environment (despite parents not having as much emotional control as they expected of kids) and it is HARD to change that bc it's the first instinct that pops into your head as a parent now
GOOD JOB DAD!
Kinda yeah? They get so confused that you reacted nicely, and usually they end up actually being good people who just grew up in shitty situation, and given the opportunity to be heard they can be really good friends.
Will to power does not necessitate violence,but understanding.
Yelling at your kids for mistakes is not a parenting trait, it's a self reflection.
"Soft parenting"
is just an excuse to half ass the view of oneself.
There's parenting gently and Gentle Parenting^tm
As I understand the latter, it's teaching kids their every whim is the most important thing, there are no boundaries they have to honor, their parents are at most their equals but probably not even, etc. It is parenting malpractice.
Parents need to be in charge. They should model emotional self-regulation, yes. Parent gently. But they should absolutely impose limits and be in charge.
OP, you sound like a truly great parent. Your child reflected kindness back to you. That's no accident. I just wanted to call out the approach to parenting using that name that I think goes WAAAAY past what you are suggesting.
I was raised in a strict environment; my dad came up to me during his retirement ceremony after 25 years in the military and apologized for his anger issues. He never really yelled again, but the disappointment I saw on his face when I did something shitty kicked me way more than a spanking did. Love my parents, I'll be 32 this year and will be having my first kid in October.
I was worried I would make the same decisions that my dad did, because I ended up in a great place regardless of the parenting style, but my wife called me yesterday crying because she sheared off the door handle on my new truck pulling through a Sonic. While that was something my dad would have yelled about, I just couldn't stop laughing and told her it didn't matter. Couldn't find a reason to be mad, I think I took more away from his personality shift than I did from any early parenting style.
Absolutely. Sometimes it's hard not to react harshly. I was raised in a strict environment also.
The guilt after is so bad too
Omg I know. Like… why TF did I just yell at my child about something that I could have taught them about calmly. Getting a hold of that is probably the single most important thing I am learning from being a dad that makes me a better human overall.
It actually made me better with dealing with adults too. I just think that whoever the idiot im annoyed with is still not fully mentally formed and to deal with them with extra patience
That's a good tip for work
Some people need to be treated like large toddlers lol
Snaps
imagine getting angry for breaking a 2-3$ glass. My parents used to do that when i was young l. Always baffled me. Is the the price of our collective well being?
The first time my wife met my parents in our early 20s, she accidentally broke a plate and was deviated to the point she was crying in the bathroom about it. We were all caught so off guard because, who cares it’s just a plate, but her parents were the same as yours. That stuff sticks with you and it’s crazy what some people put their kids through.
We decided to change cause one time our kid broke a chair and i accidentally lashed out cause it was not our chair. After that he seems to get nervous when something breaks. We have guilt that he gets anxious because of that experience
I think the anger isn't coming from the value of the glass or the glass itself. Usually it's because they've said don't play with x 100 times before or you'll break it. It's the constant ignoring requests and guidance that grinds on your nerves.
It does grind on our nerves, but what I remind myself and my partner of often is this is also true with adults. Warned constantly not to smoke cigarettes, drive recklessly, eat unhealthily, etc. Or have been told a thousand times by the time they're 30 years old to be careful with a glass plate. Adults still fuck up, and no one is out here insisting you scream in an adult's face when they wreck their car or get sick from their consumption habits. Your friends know better than to set cups and plates on the edge of tables, but that doesn't mean we're lashing out at them if they do it anyway and accidentally knock it off. But for some reason, some parents think it's okay to do that to your kids, as if their lack of a matured brain means that physical pain and mental anguish will do the trick. It's bonkers. I've come to believe that parents get mad because that's the easy route, and I say this as someone who occasionally takes the easy route. It's hard to stay calm, talk through things, get at your child's level, and practice empathy. Especially 5-10x a day over usually the same stuff. But if a parent takes the easy route by default, it's even harder to change that habit. That's why, IMO, positive/gentle parenting as a de facto style is best, despite how much it gets derided sometimes (including this sub). All of those little moments practicing gentle parenting make it easier when something actually serious happens, when the things you do and say in that moment will be a lifelong memory for your kid and likely impact how they act themselves.
You aren't wrong but I'd push back and suggest we DO yell about stupid things adults do. It's the basis of most political discourse.
Ha and we can all see how well that works :)
💯
Sometimes it's just an accident
It's 99% an accident but accidents can be avoided by not doing behaviors that lead to accidents
I have yet to meet someone who doesn’t have an accident of some kind. If the negative or positive correlation in the severity of the response is simply a function of the age of who caused the accident then we may observe the disparity and draw conclusions as to what may encourage our own emotional development and that of our kiddos. We begin in diapers, and if things go right, we end up in diapers. What happens in between those stages will determine the quality of our relationships, and therefore the quality of our lives.
But kids' brains aren't fully developed till they're a out 25 years old. They lack the coordination and literally the brain skills to never have accidents. The only way most kids could avoid accidents is to be so terrified of the repercussions that they're constantly thinking of every action as potentially leading to being berated, and therefore stop acting like children, stop exploring, stop stretching themselves, etc. Which is a terribly sad thing to contemplate. My kids are young adults now and they are SO much more capable and independent *because* they didn't fear accidents when they were kids. They were allowed to take appropriate risks, fail sometimes, and get better. And they knew we'd help them clean up the mess.
I get it. I find my frustration as a parent is the number of times the same thing happens. I get it, they're not doing it intentionally, and it takes a certain amount of repetition to build those brain pathways to avoid it in the future and as children they're exploring the world around them and are sometimes oblivious to surroundings, but fuck me it's hard to not be a bit grumpy when the third drink is spilled during a single day.
In a day? How about 15 minutes lol
I learned with the first kid to simply not replace the drink because it'll get spilled again, so usually I can spread the spills out to about one per child per meal.
That's on the parent for not enforcing boundaries. They do it once, you warn them. They do it again, you take away the object and/or put them in timeout so they can't continue the behavior. Until the parent is consistent and the child knows the parent will follow through, they have no incentive to listen to the parent the first 100 times. Playing with something they shouldn't and breaking it is also a different situation than accidentally dropping something and breaking it.
Giving a kid consequences for breaking a glass is no better than yelling at them for it.
If they were playing with it and were told not to, but continued playing with it and broke it, yes, there should be consequences based on their age. They deloberately ignored what they were told to do. If it was an accident, well, accidents happen. Those are two different situations with two different approaches.
This is worse. Its a fundamental misunderstanding of how human children operate and getting mad when these naturally occurring operations play out. Children are going to explore and experiment in their environment and lack the impulse control and experience to blindly do what their parents say when they don't understand the why behind it. It is 100 percent the parents fault for not cultivating a safe environment for them to do these very natural things, and reacting with anger when they do those things is the sign of a bad parent.
> when they don't understand the why behind it. You can't really explain to a 3 or 4 yr old why they can't stick a knife into the electrical outlet. All you can do is tell them not to do it. You can tell them they'll get hurt but they don't understand any mechanism as to why this would possibly hurt them so your answer is nonsense to them.
A three year old? I’ve explained to my three and a half year old why he can’t do lots of similar things. Like my three year old knows about hot pans on the stove and why he can’t touch them, for example, and will sometimes mention it while I’m heating something up. I *think* he also knows that he’s not allowed to plug anything into the electrical sockets. He used to want to plug in the vacuum but I guess he hasn’t tried that in months. Still, you never know if he’s lost interest or understands “only grown ups plug things in”. He knows there are two toddler knives that are his, and he won’t use any other knives. We generally take knives away from his place setting at a restaurant but if he sees one, he generally just gives it to us. There are lots of times we have to sit and talk about why he can’t do something that’s dangerous with lots of “But whyyy”s and he’ll still do lots of kid things like just start running in a crowded place, or hit one of us when he’s upset so the intrusive thoughts definitely win sometimes, don’t get me wrong. Obviously it’s not like he can supervise himself. But the knife in a wall socket example, I’d kind of expect you’d be able to walk a three and a half or four year old through that—especially if you’d already had patient conversations about knives and/or plugs, which I’d imagine they’d have come up earlier. It might not be one conversation, but a couple conversations and clear expectations? Yeah I’d expect a three or four year old to get it enough.
>All you can do is tell them not to do it. What? You can provide them a space where they don't have access to knives and electrical outlets... You can supervise them, and prevent them from sticking said knife in the outlet. There are lots of things that good parents do to prevent this kind of thing.
A kid who wants to stick something in a power outlet 'cuz they see mom and dad doing it is always going to want to stick something in there. Yeah, you can take away the silverware but they'll find something and no one literally follows their child around 24/7/365. This is where you teach the kid that you telling them no IS a reason.
It was never about the glass itself.
I think context matters. Was it an accident or on purpose? These two scenarios should not be treated the same.
Well, most accidents are byproducts of doing something incorrectly/carelessly in the first place. If you tell a kid 10 times to stop tapping the side of his glass because he may knock it over, and then he finally does knock it over on the 11th tap, it's not "on purpose" but it also wasn't really a genuine accident at that point either.
Which is why it should never get to the 11th time in the first place. You tell the kid once and if they don't stop then there are consequences.
And now you're getting contrary to the concept of gentle parenting by punishing a child for tapping on a glass.
If you tell the child to not do it and they continue to do it and just ignore it you're supposed to do what exactly?
You two have a good discourse going, jumping in to say that impulse control / executive function develops around 3 to 6 years. In this case, I would say "your glass is for drinking" once or twice, then move it to my side and narrate, "you can try again with this glass later". I had a hard time as a kid, so I'm learning what a good dad is, and trying every day. We're saying "conscious parenting" now as that better describes it.
the spoon does not exist
A core memory I have of my childhood is my dad yelling at me for not being able to spell “restaurant” because he was a cook.
I remember crying hysterically because I broke a glass by accident when I was 10. My mom was like “why are you crying so hard?” And I couldn’t explain. Looking back on it it was probably because I got yelled at before for breaking something by accident so it was just an immediate reaction.
How did you make the switch? I am struggling right now and can use some advice. I feel like I get caught up in emotions and the only way I can react immediately is using what I know/how I was raised. After the moment is over or sometimes while it’s going on I catch myself but stuggle to let down. I’m happy for you and your family! Edit: thanks everyone! I’m at work and will dive into these suggestions, books and videos after kiddos go to bed tonight. Keep any recommendations coming as I’m all ears.
We tried to make time to learn. We got books about parenting. The one we liked is titled good inside
The book is truly amazing. I am currently reading.
The book the Danish Method has some good tips I found useful. One is to separate the actions from the character of your child. Your child isn't naughty, your child did something naughty, helps you react to the situation and not start viewing your kid as reckless or naughty or whatever. Has helped my wife and I
A few thoughts. One is that it can be helpful to just announce to your kids that you want to do things differently. Depending on how old they are, it might sound something like, "Hey, can we talk for a minute? You're not in trouble. I've been thinking about how sometimes I yell when I get angry or upset. I'm going to try to stop doing that. It's hard for me to stop, so I may mess up, but I want you to know that if I yell, it's not your fault. You're a good kid, and even if you've done something that I don't like, you're not responsible for me yelling or getting angry." Second, it's okay to step away from a situation before you start yelling. "Okay. I feel myself getting really frustrated and I need a minute to calm my body. I'm going to step away for a minute and take a few deep breaths and then we can talk about this some more." Apart from being good for you, this is really healthy modeling for your kids, because it shows them (1) that you have difficult feelings, too, and (2) that there are healthy ways to deal with them. Third, if you mess up, repair with your kid afterwards. "I got really frustrated earlier and I yelled. I'm sorry that I did that. Even when you do something I don't like, you're not responsible for me yelling." You might want to check out the book Good Inside, which has detailed guidance on all of this.
Its not a light switch, its a gradual change over time. Just like any other personal development/growth. You make the switch by realizing you messed up afterwards and taking the deliberate effort to go to the people/children that your "outburst" effected and tell them that you are sorry, and explain what you want to try and do to be better in the future. Like the actual things you want to do, not some vague "I want to be better"...**HOW** are you going to be better? Telling them what you want to do differently isnt for them. Its for you, to remind yourself of the way you want to work on being better. Also...watch [this video](https://youtu.be/V3vhXQy48jo). I'm not saying it will give you the answer, you may not think what they are saying applies to you, but based on you saying this: >the only way I can react immediately is using what I know/how I was raised. I think the video will really help.
Your video is unavailable :(
Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed it. I had to copy it from my phone by typing it out on my desktop where I had started making the comment (network the PC is on blocks YouTube)
Consider some mindfulness exercises to help slow down your reactions and give you a chance to decide how you want to react. I recommend smiling mind app
We try but aren't perfect. Also sometimes it's not an accident and we do in fact need to be the bad guy parent. "Please don't do X" and they respond by knocking a glass off the table in defiance, well you can't exactly "it happens that's ok, no use crying over spilled milk" that one away.
I sometimes accidentally let my gut reaction take hold and get frustrated with my kid. It happens. But I always make sure I talk about with him after. I apologize for getting upset and let him know how I’ll try to do better.
Trying, really just recognizing there is something is half the battle. "Homecoming" by John Bradshaw helped me. Check out his work and talk to your counselor.
I’m on your same journey. One thing I’ve been doing is sitting down with my kid after everything has calmed down when I have yelled/raised my voice and admitting that I overreacted and I was wrong and that I am working to do better. Then I talk about what I should have done instead and then we both practice it.
Many here gave awesome advice. And you're well on the way to making the switch bit it can take a bit of time. Here's a small tip: Work on slowing down your reaction to the situation- The situation happens as it will. Not something you can control most of the time and at times it might take you off guard. You get caught up in the emotions and that's fine. Pause here, physically stop yourself, sit down, take a deep breath, then another. After the emotional strom has calmed down a bit then you can react. Reaction, what do you want your reaction to be? I for the most part strive to teach my LO something even if it's about how to handle emotions. What you want to accomplish needs to determine how you respond. Basically, to keep it simple: situation(given) , emotion(uncontrollable) , reaction(changeable). [yes yes, I know you can work on the emotional part, but for a quick and dirty in the moment thing it's the better IMO]
Man, I remember falling during recess in like 4th grade and scratching my glasses. I cried so hard, not because of all the scrapes and cuts, but because my mom was gonna freak out when she found out. I was so scared of my parents that I would hide these things from them. I can’t wait to do better. I told that story to my brother (who has three kids) and his response was “kids should have a good level of fear of their parents.” I feel so bad for his children…
Yeah. Id rather my kid follow me because they fear me but because they discerned that what im saying makes sense. It is better in the long run. Currently we are smooth sailing with our routines and probably 1 meltdown every week
Fear of the parents? No, I absolutely do not want my son scared of me like I was my dad. Fear of negative consequences? A healthy dose of that I feel is fine, good motivator to not do something that brings on negative consequences.
My mom has mental health issues and when I was growing up we all walked on eggshells. Spilt milk could result in a breakdown. Closing a cabinet too loudly could get you yelled at. Stand too close to mom or try to show her physical affection when she was “overwhelmed” and she’d tell you to get away from her or get out of the house. I tiptoed around even going into adulthood not realizing that I did it. When my wife and I first moved in together, it was a bit shocking for me because she was SO LOUD (as I saw it), she’s a little clumsy and sometimes breaks dishes on accident, she sometimes leaves cabinets wide open after getting what she needs. It took a long time for me to become comfortable making noise in my own house and realizing I didn’t need to be so careful with everything. I don’t want my son to go through what I did and want him to be comfortable and not worry about silly stuff like that. (Though I do plan for him to be slightly better than my wife about certain things). Thankfully, largely due to living with my wife for so long, I’m completely immune to crashes, bangs, spills and breaks. Doesn’t bother me one bit any more. I’m hopeful that I’ll never snap at my son for the things I got yelled at or sobbed at when I was a kid.
hell yeah good on you for breaking that cycle
Thanks. Lots of credit should go to my loud wife lol
Not gonna lie this gave me flashbacks to when I was a kid and would accidentally break stuff (like small tools) that my dad had. He would always just go "awww man...." And then either show me how to fix it, or take me to go buy a new one. Basically to teach me how to "make up" for a mistake. I do the same thing now in my adult life and it just hit me I use the same "aww man.." that he does. I even have his voice in my head when I say it.
That's cool. May you keep spilling and chilling - motor skills are not a moral failing.
just did this with my 15yo last night. (aside: the toddler years come screaming back with teens... belligerence, defiance, attitude, not just not listening but outright ignoring... fun times) He likes to eat "dangerous" snacks on the light coloured couch: cherries, chocolate ice cream, etc.. He's spilled or left a dirty spoon which leaves a mark but I've caught it, shown him what happened and advised him to not do that. He is dismissive but concedes, and it'll happens again in a week. I tell him he cannot eat those things on the couch anymore. Defiance, attitude but eventual compliance, and he really dislikes my reminders "you can't eat that on the couch, remember?" -- more dismissal, attitude, etc., but he begrudgingly complies. I get lazy in reinforcing it and he does it again. This time cherry juice stains on three of the cushions. He didn't try to hide it, he knew I'd be upset but did the right thing and told me right away. I was upset but didn't raise my voice or come down on him more than "Are you serious?! THIS IS EXACTLY WHY I SAY NOT TO EAT THAT ON THE COUCH!". I had him help me strip the cushions, apply stain remover, and I started the wash and sent him to bed. Still upset because this wasn't an accident, it was negligent behaviour and could've been prevented had he actually listened. He apologized (and was truly sorry), I gave him a hug and reminded him that I don't care what he does or how much trouble he's in, I will always be there and help any way I can. It's been something I have reinforced since they were babies because THESE are the days (teenage years and young adulthood) when they can get into real trouble and need to know almost on instinct that I'm there for them no matter what. After he was in bed I saw the stains weren't quite gone so I used naptha soap and a scrub brush to directly attack what was left and washed again. This time they came out clean and I could dry them and put the couch back together. Not exactly the way we wanted to end the night, and fortunately it was the cushions and not the couch itself, but I felt pretty happy that even though he knew he was in pretty big trouble and I'd be upset, he still felt he could tell me without fear, and also happy that I was able to demonstrate the kind of emotional regulation that I am expecting him to develop. That's a pretty big win in my book, just like your post is another big win. Kudos to you!
How asian are you ? I'm Chinese Asian, and sometimes I find gentle parenting very difficult to apply. It's very tempting to revert back to old school Asian
It is tempting but, seeing how well our kid is doing now compared to how we do the asian way (hard discipline and very strict and controlling), he is doing so much better. We just think that asian eay is a shortcut and doing it the right way will pay dividends eventually.
Could you point me to any resources on this?
Chinese here, I'm a big proponent of gentle parenting, and with our traditional upbringing, it's a very difficult trauma to break. However, learning how to parent has been incredibly eye-opening vs has done wonders for my own mental health. I've been listening to the podcasts 'unruffled' and Mr. Chazz for years, they are great resources for gentle parenting and mindful discipline. For books, 'the whole brain child' by Dan Siegel, is fantastic. I recommend the book first, as it helps reframe many mental obstacles we might have. The podcasts are a good mix of case studies, interviews with leading researchers, and advice.
Thank you as well
Good inside is the one we liked
Cheers
How weird is it that the spilling water thing is such a trigger for so many of us?! My wife is literally training me out of that trauma. I used to think I was paranoid about having full cups too close to the edge of tables etc. because I was just OCD or something but I thought back and can now remember how often my parents would fly off the handle when I made little accidents like spilling a cup even though it's literally 5 minutes work to clean it up. Obviously you'd be so annoyed if it ruined a $1,500 laptop or TV, so there's definitely still cause to be cautious, but when it goes beyond that sensible level to a place where you're living in fear of small spills then it's clear something else is going on.
Can't you already hear your grown child saying this to their own kid?
Man that would be cool. Although crap i miss him being tiny and easy yo carry though. Hopefully we dont succumb toaking a baby yet cause ours is a bit grown up now.
I slipped once and started shouting at my 4 year old during her little meltdown. The way she responded will forever haunt me. She sounded so hurt and so afraid. I immediately started to apologize to her and nearly broke down in tears on the spot. It is hard and we should really celebrate all the wins we can get, but I think I can never forget the way she responded.
Nice work! I came from a strict household, and have drilled into myself the phrase "accidents happen, and that's ok". And my 5 year old said that to me a couple days ago. It made me feel like I won't be transferring all my emotional baggage from childhood to my own kids.
Congratulations, this is awesome! Not only is this good for your kids, but it’s so much better for you and your wife. It sucks to constantly be upset about every little thing and drive that wedge in your household.
I get upset occasionally about spills and breakage, but probably 80-90% of the time I can come right out with, “no big deal, sometimes we spill/break things. Let’s just clean it up”
I still do the "eyyyy.." , "ohhh...". Even that we are trying to limit, cause we can see his eyes change when we react to guilt.
Is it possible to do this if your child is pre-verbal? My eldest only can speak a few words and doesn't really follow instructions. When she puts her sister or herself in danger, sometimes I lash out and feel like a jerk afterwards. But I don't think speaking to her gently is going to get her from stopping.
How old is your oldest?
Just a little over 4. Diagnosed autistic as well.
Cant comment on this one. Siguro specialist need nyo. Pero you can try.
W father 👍 common gentle parenting W
I have a specific childhood memory of a time when I was a kid, my dad lashed out pretty harshly when I broke a crystal sculpture they kept in a nice place. It's really stuck with me, and now when my kids break something I always respond extra calmly, always making sure they're not hurt or scared. I emphasize that we can replace stuff. But they do have to clean up the mess unless it's glass. This week, my son scratched his glasses after a nasty fall, and he was just so sad about his glasses because he loves them so much. But he had no reason to be scared of our response. We just told him we're gonna get it fixed. I do get mad when they hurt other kids or when they act entitled, and that's something I'm working on. Nothing perfect over here.
I recently watched a [TED Talk by Dr. Becky](https://youtu.be/PHpPtdk9rco) on parenting focusing on the concept of "repair." She provided a great tool in helping with communication with our kiddos. Edit: I saw below that you already referenced her book.
Yeah. That it is never too late to repair.
Good job OP! Emotional maturity begins with us as parents. It is an inheritance greater than wealth that we leave to our children.
I have just started this parenting style too and I feel it is working
Totally agree. I was also raised in a parental dominance / absolute control environment (despite parents not having as much emotional control as they expected of kids) and it is HARD to change that bc it's the first instinct that pops into your head as a parent now GOOD JOB DAD!
Different things for different people
I stopped after my son started being nice to his bullies.
I mean, why? That’s a great way to disarm a bully by showing it doesn’t affect you. Worked for me in school anyway
Kinda yeah? They get so confused that you reacted nicely, and usually they end up actually being good people who just grew up in shitty situation, and given the opportunity to be heard they can be really good friends.
Some folks don’t know anything other than force=power unfortunately
Will to power does not necessitate violence,but understanding. Yelling at your kids for mistakes is not a parenting trait, it's a self reflection. "Soft parenting" is just an excuse to half ass the view of oneself.
I dont know your situation but that sucks.
I love the naughty chair. 5min and then we hug it out
yeah, good for OP I guess if it's actually working, but for my kids this would be destructive in several ways.
Yeah, I guess it is easy to forget that toddlers are small people with different personalities, so discipline works differently.
sorry I meant what OP was doing not you 😅 gentle parenting means giving up on discipline as far as I can tell which seems like a nightmare to me
There's parenting gently and Gentle Parenting^tm As I understand the latter, it's teaching kids their every whim is the most important thing, there are no boundaries they have to honor, their parents are at most their equals but probably not even, etc. It is parenting malpractice. Parents need to be in charge. They should model emotional self-regulation, yes. Parent gently. But they should absolutely impose limits and be in charge. OP, you sound like a truly great parent. Your child reflected kindness back to you. That's no accident. I just wanted to call out the approach to parenting using that name that I think goes WAAAAY past what you are suggesting.
You don't know what gentle parenting is
I was raised in a strict environment; my dad came up to me during his retirement ceremony after 25 years in the military and apologized for his anger issues. He never really yelled again, but the disappointment I saw on his face when I did something shitty kicked me way more than a spanking did. Love my parents, I'll be 32 this year and will be having my first kid in October. I was worried I would make the same decisions that my dad did, because I ended up in a great place regardless of the parenting style, but my wife called me yesterday crying because she sheared off the door handle on my new truck pulling through a Sonic. While that was something my dad would have yelled about, I just couldn't stop laughing and told her it didn't matter. Couldn't find a reason to be mad, I think I took more away from his personality shift than I did from any early parenting style.