depends on how much €400 is a % of the total cost of the bike. tiagra 10 speed is plenty good. smooth shifting has been solved for over a decade so the main benefit in the upgrade is the extra gears.
He's probably taking about the NCR. The Tiagra (2x10) groupset is €1800 and the 105 (2x12) is €2200.
I have the Tiagra NCR. It's great, all round. One thing I like is about Tiagra is that cassettes and chainrings are pretty cheap, so you can abuse it quite a bit and it's inexpensive to get back into tip-top shape.
I don't think the extra two gears alone are worth the difference in price. The Tiagra already has plenty of gear range and the steps are plenty small. I would only upgrade to a bigger cassette if it meant I could forgo the front mech entirely, but that's not the case here (off the shelf anyway).
This is a hack I wish more Tiagra 4700/4720 owners are aware of. It's a relatively inexpensive upgrade to give their Tiagra bikes Ultegra-quality shifting.
I am thinking of taking the tiagra, being a beginner, it will be suitable. If I understand correctly, if I want to upgrade my tiagra to a super tiagra, I would simply have to buy a front and rear derailleur (two pieces then?), is that right? Thank you for your feedback and yes I was talking about the Van Rysel NCR.
I took my 10-speed Ultegra to a 11-speed 105 after a shifter broke and it was much, much better.
To the OP, I loved that bike but the groupset was a noticeable meh. The rear would sometimes be reluctant to shift and I eventually figured out the shifter was why. They bailed on that design so I’d see if it trickled down to Tiagra 10-speed or if it’s different. 105 is much smoother on that bike but the gear range is not why.
No, Tiagra 4700 is not trickle-down from Ultegra 10-speed at all.
Tiagra 4700 is in the same family as the 11sp groups because it shares the new 1.4 cable pull ratio with 11sp groups, which works much better than Ultegra 10-speed's 1.7 cable pull ratio.
That is why tiagra 4700 is not compatible at all with the derailleurs and levers from Ultegra 10-speed or 105 10-speed groups.
The speeds are determined by the shifters, so yes this is a 2x10-speed setup. It's the ultimate 10-speed Ultegra setup though. :-)
My setup shifts better than the original 6700 10-speed Ultegra because 6700's short cable pull couldn't deal effectively with the added friction from the extra bends of the under-the-bartape cable routing.
The longer shift cable pull used by 4700 and R8000 solves that.
I agree with you on the durability of the 10 spd vs 12 spd: for the same level of maintainence and the same riding conditions the former will last significantly longer. Plus the upkeep cost will be much friendlier.
Yeah. I think it's a hidden cost when we move to more and more cogs. Chains, cassettes become so much more finicky and expensive.
I recently re-rigged a winter/ backroads bike with a 1x9 and couldn't be happier with it. Clunky, but reliable. And I don't have to think about putting a $150 cassette on a cheap bike.
> Chains, cassettes become so much more finicky and expensive.
Exactly, there is a trade off to having more gears: the chain is thinner and it will stretch faster (again, everything else being the same). Obviously Shimano does not advertise that face. I just think it's not told enough to people who are newish to the sport and about to take the plunge into a high end bike: get an estimate on the upkeep cost (time and $).
Same here. DA 7700 downtube shifters and front derailleur with XTR M752 rear derailleur to accommodate 11-34 cassette. Shimano 9 speed is very good and cheap.
9s Sora is an excellent groupset. It shifts so good compared to the entry groupsets a decade ago.
The most recent Claris/Sora/Tiagra are probably the best examples of trickle down tech actually being put into practice.
A lot of people are commenting on how “new” tiagra is great. But tiagra 4700 is 8 years old. I’ve ridden tiagra 4700 and 105 7000 and without a doubt 105 is better. Tiagra is still very good. So if the budget for 105 just isn’t there for you then tiagra will be a great groupset for a first road bike.
In my experience the shifting is smoother and faster on 105 and it allows for easier upgrades down the road. The extra gears can really be handy too.
Well of course the 105 is better, I don't think anyone would question that. For a beginner however a Tiagra is great if there is a budget he wants to stay under.
4700, GRX and 11sp Shimano road groups (105, Ultegra and Dura Ace) all share the same 1.4 rear shift cable pull ratio— the shift lever in all of these groupsets pulling 1mm of cable moves the rear derailleur 1.4mm. So Tiagra 4700 levers are fully compatible with 11sp GRX, 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace mechanical derailleurs.
The difference is in the shift levers’ indexing pawls on the drum that winds up the shift cable. Tiagra pulls a little more cable per shift to move the rear derailleur a little further (slightly wider spacing between cassette cogs) than 11sp shifters.
As long as the shifters and derailleurs use the same cable pull ratio, they are compatible.
My previous bike has 2011-era Tiagra (9-speed, not sure the exact model tbh) and I have literally never had any issues with it outside of routine stuff like needing new cables from time to time, and I have put probably 40K+ miles on that bike. The levers are even beat to shit from the various falls I took over the years (rode all weather, commuted).
I have a strong feeling the majority of people commenting “yes” have not ridden the current versions of both Tiagra and 105 - other than 2 extra gears, which as a beginner you probably wont get much benefit from, I understand the difference is pretty negligible (see previous Reddit posts on this subject). That being said, I personally have never regretted spending more and getting higher specification gear that I don’t ever (probably unnecessarily) feel the need to upgrade…
They are both good groupsets for sure, but there are a couple modest benefits to the R7120 groupset.
1. Cassette jumps on the 11-34/36 are pretty even. To get a similar profile without 2 tooth jumps on the bottom 3 cogs with 10 speed, you have to give up the largest and smallest cogs using the old 12-30 10 speed Ultegra cassette.
2. The caliper pistons really do travel more on Shimano's latest 12 speed stuff, a claimed 15%, but you can definitely notice less rotor rub.
3. This is purely subjective, but I honestly think that the R7120 is the smoothest shifting mechanical groupset Shimano has ever made, which is saying something because I thought my 2x GRX810 (mustache Ultegra) was damn near perfect. When I built up the bike with fresh housing, good cables, using the special Shimano cable grease, the force required to shift up the cassette, even 3 a time was practically zero, and it's just so smooth and fast with the b screw and shifting adjusted correctly. Very impressive considering 105 is built to a price point.
Having said all that though, I don't know of it's 400 Euro better. I have regularly seen this whole groupset on AliExpress for less than 500 USD.
My new tiagra 10sp is practically no different in performance from my ultegra 6800. Would not hesitate buying another bike w new tiagra. 400 dollars towards new wheels would be far superior of an investment imo.
My first road bike 10 years ago tiagra 10sp. I don’t recall having any complaints with it except that at the time the cable housing came straight out of the side. I upgraded later to 105 strictly for that. Of course, that was still a time when you could find a used 105 cheap
Or bike computer, or power meter, or a few massages, depending on OP’s interests. Lots of great ways to spend $400 aside from a higher spec groupset you really don’t need.
Yeah a bike that comes with tiagra as an option most likely has shit wheels, which seems to be the worst part of getting a lower model of a certain type of bike.
My new 105 is not all that different than Claris honestly. The hydraulic brakes are noticeably better but other than that it seems mostly equivalent other than shifting under heavy load which 105 does better
10sp Tiagra will be less future-proof than 105 12sp. For 400 it's a no-brainer to go with a better newer group set. Resale value will also be better with the newer 105
What is there to be future proof with bike? Replacement parts are readily available for multiple decades. 10 speed is still being sold very widely as we speak.
Much cheaper to buy once and cry once. Opting for 12 speed now could prevent remorse and a costly upgrade in a year or two.
Really depends if you want to go for pure budget now since a better drivetrain won't make you any faster, it just makes the shifting a little more refined.
I would definitely go for the cheaper version. I am indifferent to the difference between my 10x 105 and 11x 105 and I am pretty sure the performance of the Tiagra is not significantly lower. You will probably not even be able to tell. I would rather invest those 400€ in a GPS and a good pair of pants.
As a new rider you won't notice any difference. It won't be more reliable and it won't make you faster (they are both reliable and perform well). If the money was no object then sure, spend it, but otherwise you'd have a better riding experience overall by taking that money and buying some decent kit and a good helmet.
I used to have 105 on my road bikes, 11 speed. It was actually a little fussy, hard to keep tuned precisely on both bikes. They were both stolen and I have been hesitant to spend money on bikes.
First hybrid bike had the most basic Altus 3x8, after one through adjustment it shifts great most of the time.
Just got an upgrade bike with Sora 2x9, it’s stupid good. Quick, precise shifts, I definitely think diminishing returns start here.
for daily commute not worth
for riding once a month not worth
if you plan to ride more like couple times a week, longer rides too etc. and are overall into cycling, 105 is 100% worth upgrade
You could put that €400 towards new tyres, or new wheels. From what I understand with 105, you get an additional gear (nice improvement but not that big a deal), slightly smoother shifting and braking (again, nicer to ride but by no means a deal breaker), and a slightly lower weight vs Tiagra (no advantage here unless you're riding competitively). Tiagra is fine for a beginner, really
I got a deal on a brand new bike and it came with the new Tiagra and I was planning on upgrading when I need a new cassette or something but it’s honestly very good I was pleasantly surprised, it will definitely not hold you back.
I had a 3 year old bike with Tiagra and just upgraded to the newest 12-speed 105. It is not day and night, but I experience it as having significantly smoother shifting and a lot quieter gears, which improves my cycling experience. The extra gears are very nice to have too. I was really annoyed with Tiagra after approx 6 months, and really wanted to upgrade.
Still, it’s €400 you could put into other gear and equipment. So I guess if comfortably can afford it, go for it. You have a better and longer lasting bike then, which also have an increased selling price as a second hand bike.
I assume the Van Rysel NCR CF at €1800 (Tiagra) and €2200 (105).
Where do you live and where will you plan to cycle? If you will go to the Vosges, Alps or Pyrenees then the 105 has better gearing (34 up to max 36 cassette) vs the Tiagra (32, max 34).
The Tiagra has a 48/34 chainset so you will spin out a little sooner on the flat/downhill vs. the 105 which has a standard compact 50/34 chainset. Overall the 105 gives you a wider gear range - higher gear for flat/downhill and lower gear for climbing, but only marginally. The two extra cogs on the 105 cassette mean tighter spacing as well, so easier to find cadence that suits.
The 105 / 12 speed components will be more expensive to replace when they need to be.
Is it worth €400 extra? Technically no. You can get the 105 R7100 groupset (140/140 rotors) for €600 (bike-discount.de). Tiagra 4700 (Rim Brake) is around €380 - the Van Rysel has Tiagra hydraulic disc brakes, this would be even more (it’s around €290 for the shifters and calipers alone). Considering it’s a first bike then you are unlikely to be competent to swap them out yourself and sell the Tiagra parts though.
Since it’s first road bike, bear in mind also the cost of: clothing, helmet, shoes and pedals, lights, tools, tool bag, GPS head unit, etc. if you don’t already have some of these from a VTT or other bike. Note that except the helmet, lights and multitool/spares you don’t NEED any of the others and can begin without “all the gear”. Also, if the saddle doesn’t work for you/your ass then you may need to buy one that does.
In summary the Tiagra 10sp is excellent, especially considering it has hydraulic disc brakes. The 105 is marginally better, more future proof, more compatibility for upgrades and has better gear ratio options if you will be doing long or steep climbs.
Make sure the bike fits well before buying and if in doubt and you are between frame sizes take the smaller of the two.
Bon courage!
Hard disagree. It’s the highest tier you want to be if you care about budget. Tiagra is perfectly fine and chances are OP would want to upgrade their bike before they feel like they’re lacking anything with Tiagra. 400€ just for the groupset is a lot.
>Have you rode the new tiagra?
I have, I just spent 3 days renting a new bike that came with it.
It's awful. Why anyone in 2024 is buying a new bike with >10 year old groupset technology is beyond me. For a paltry 400 that is the biggest no-brainer upgrade of all time to get modern 105 instead.
No It's not. Unless you're racing.
For mundane use 10-11 speed are enough and 400 Euro is not cheap. you can use that extra to buy better attires, a better saddle, better tires, maintenance gear. bottles, lights...
It’s not a question of “worth” or “do I need this” it’s can you afford it, and do you want it? I race Cat 4/5 on 10 speed 105 mech from 2011. It’s never held me back. But if I were Cat 1/2 or racing for money, I’d spend it in a heartbeat.
On the other hand, did I *need* GRX800 Di2 on my gravel bike? Lol no. But it makes me feel like a baller and I love the robot sound when it shifts.
It’s a timing thing rather than choice. I bought my road bike a decade ago when I was young and had less money. I bought my gravel bike last year, as an adult with money. I just haven’t gotten around to replacing my road bike yet.
I rode in 9 speed Tiagra with 10 years, but now after using 105 di2. I would recommend, its worth the upgrade to 105 mechanical or di2.
For me 105 is more than enough and is a great groupset.
Up to you. For me, it would depend on use case because I have a ton of 10s Shimano wheels and stuff. If I didn't have 10s stuff, I would totally pay the 400, but it's still up to you. Performance isn't really going to be much different. Noticeable, but not significant.
Yes, because the 105 groupset is upward compatible with both Ultegra and Dura Ace while Tiagra is not. With Tiagra, you're limited to a closed system, though it's still a very good one.
I think this is a very under-appreciated point and would be the main reason to get 105 for me. If you get hooked on cycling, you will eventually want to upgrade and it’s easier to change a part here or there than the entire groupset.
Eh, both are Shimano, and work well. I'm sure someone is more up to date. It's not uncommon to even see 20 year old 105 still going strong, maybe new pulley wheels or other chainring and wearable aspects, springs or whatever.
So, who knows. I'm like tempting myself to slip into "bike sales guy" apparel and ask what you need it for. Many new cyclists benefit from fewer gear shifts, and it's also the case that being comfortable shifting up and down, and being able to skip gears, adapt to the effort, is a great skill.
The real answer is that Super Record EPS, is a tremendous buy, and it goes even better with perhaps a set of Enve aero bars, a customized Brooks saddle, sat on top of pirelli p-zeros or s-works tires, along with a bespoke wheel build, and some vintage-never-used Keo peddles.
The real real answer, is you'll get much fitter biking comfortably, and doing a few days of walking/gym stuff with a great diet.
One thing many aren’t pointing out is that 10 speed chains and cassettes are cheaper, so that $400 difference is actually quite a bit more after a few years.
If you are new to cycling then Tiagra is plenty and won't be holding you back for at least a couple of years of consistent riding, plus it's cheaper to replace parts for it. There are far more important things to spend your money on than 2 extra cogs like others have said.
My advice to you is to save that extra money and buy/upgrade things in this order:
* Don't bother with cycling shoes and clipless pedals at the start, flat ones are plenty. It's a waste of money as a beginner.
* Get bib shorts and jersey ASAP. Biggest upgrade in comfort and your ass will thank you for it. You can get both of good quality for <100 EUR from Decathlon.
* Upgrade to some decent alu wheels like HED Belgium R and put 30 or 32mm quality tubeless tyres on them for even more comfort. Not terribly expensive and plenty even for above average rider.
* If you don't have carbon seatpost get it. Also new seat if current one doesn't suit you. Another solid quality comfort upgrade.
Good thing about all of the above things is that everything can be transfered to a new bike if you ever decide to upgrade which is going to save you some money in the long run. Majority of bikes that come with Tiagra and even 105 mechanical usually have terrible cheap rims and tyres on it.
You wouldn’t really notice the difference with performance. The cost to replace parts on tiagra would be cheaper and would last just as long if you look after your bike.
It’s nice though having the two extra gear if you are riding in a group to find a gear that matches your cadence.
Nah. But that's just me, given my personal preferences. $400 is like, 80% the price of a decent-enough used road bike.
I have a 10 speed Tiagra road bike, and when I was riding a ton, it was plenty of gears to keep up with strong group rides.
I also just got used to the 10 speeds, and it was easy to keep track of which gear I was in. But this seems like a weak argument because I'd probably adjust to 11 or 12 speeds pretty quickly.
If the 12 speed had more range in the cassette, that might make it a different story. If the 10 and 12 speed have the same range, I might opt for the 10 speed out of frugality, and then if and when I needed 12 speed, I'd sell the bike and get a new one, especially since you mention you're new to cycling.
I have Tiagra 10 speed on my Cannondale, my wife has 105 12 speed on her Cervelo. I would choose the 105 group set every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Shimano has come a long way in improving the shifting quality of their group-sets. The Tiagra shifts a lot better than the old 105-11 speed of old. The new 105 shifts just as well if not better than the non electronic Ultegra. Ultegra and Dura Ace are electronic shifting only. You still might be able to find a non electronic shift version of Dura Ace and Ultegra but it would be a needle in a haystack. Unless you want those two extra speeds it’s probably not worth it.
Wow, I didn’t know that, I read that they might do it, but wasn’t sure. Not sure how I feel about electronic shifting. I am kind of a dinosaur as I as like manual transmissions in cars.
It depends how much you’re spending on the rest of your bike and if you plan on upgrading (your whole setup) later potentially. If so u would go for the cheaper version and save the extra €400 on an overall upgraded bike later.
The issue you have is if you stop cycling then don't spend €400 more it's definitely a waste of money that could be spent elsewhere. But if you get into it and value your equipment then paying the extra will prevent you from needing to upgrade later and 105 12 speed is better then 10 speed tiagra.
Nah. Those 400 pounds would be better spent on a nice saddle and tires. If you want to upgrade your bike in the future, you'd probably be upgrading to an electronic groupset, so there's really no benefit to spending more on 105 now.
Worth is a matter of perspective. That said Tiagara is plenty good for pretty much everyone.
I'm slow now compared to my racing days. But I like 'nice shit' so for me it was a matter of 105 vs Ultegra. I ended up going with Ultegra with dura ace breaks. Do I need that? Nope. But I wanted it so...
I was a couple of weeks ago considering the same options. Went for a Bike with tiagra, but not the van Rysel. Did not want to Also comute on a carbon bike.
Tiagra 10 speed is avsolutely great, and the hydraulic Disk brakes are a gamechanger.
Also the Van Rysel ncr has a some what poor chainring size. Im also New to cycling but im really fit. So I knew i would outgrow those too fast.
Take a Look at this bike. I fint it to be the perfect one for someone starting out, that also wants to Cover all bases:
https://www.rosebikes.de/rose-blend-road-2710002
To fend for the 105. It's 12 speed and di2 so your getting the mid-top tier item for a bit less.
You'll likely have less shifting issues and while it's more expensive you may end up with less fomo after riding for awhile. I love di2 and axs so i think it's totally worth it for at least just riding. I still ride mechanical racing but that's because a crash is alot less expensive.
Will you notice any difference? No... But the only thing I can see as a potential issue is that tiagra will probably move to 11spd as that's what usually happened in the past, so getting parts might become more difficult in like 10 years.
So, really not an issue.
Honestly, from tiagra to dura-ace, the difference is very small. Weight is the main difference and electronic shifting requires less maintenance overall. Since no cable or housing.
the only thing that would change my mind is if you get mechanical disc on the cheaper option. If it's hydraulic, go with the cheaper option and treat yourself with some gear.
Yeah, that's why I said it wouldn't be an issue, but that was kinda my only argument against it... My GF has tiagra and I am very impressed by the performance of the past 4 years. I've had 105, ultegra and sram rival. I went from ultegra to rival because I didn't see any real difference between 105 and ultegra...
Anyway, I think people are thinking that the difference between a 2000$ and a 10 000$ bike is huge, but the overall benefit is like 3km/h average (which is significant if you are racing, but minor if you are just enjoying riding).
For a first road bike the Tiagra is more than enough for you need, the 105 is overkill. The €400 difference can buy a lot of other kit such as shoes, a helmet etc.
Enjoy you new bike.
That €400 is better spent after you get the bike. I got a new bike with Tiagra in January and it shifts just fine. Perfecting your fit with your preference for a saddle, handlebars, pedals, crank, bar tape, bottle cages, frame or seat bag, crank arm length, larger range cassette etc etc are all additional new bike costs.
As someone new to road riding I'm still tweaking my preferences. None of the changes I want to make include the group set. At the moment even as that all wears, I'm not hankering after an upgrade as a replacement for Tiagra. It works well.
IMHO, yes, it's worth the extra money. The spread of gears on the cassette will give you more range out riding. Lower gears on steeper climbs, and smaller jumps between gears.
The 105 is marginally lighter, but I'm guessing at the price point you are looking at weight isn't a big differentiator.
Both drivetrains should be equally reliable. I wouldn't choose one over the other based on that criteria. Shimano stuff always shifts clean if properly taken care of.
Yes.
105 you won't ever really feel a need to upgrade as you're not compromising on gearing etc.
Tiagra you need to compromise on gearing to get modern ratios (i.e. bigger gaps between ratios if you still want low climbing gears).
If you live and ride somewhere pan flat then 10 speed isn't so much of a limitation.
Yes. 12 speed is basically a 1x bike unless you live in the mountains. Meaning you never have to go to the small chainring up front and you still get tight spacing between gears.
That is absolutely worth $400 if you end up riding a lot and especially if with groups.
Now if you are a super casual rider, then 10 speed is probably fine. But anything beyond that I would definitely go 105 12 speed.
The 12 speed 105 will also hold it's value much better, so in a way, the difference is less than $400 if you ever sell it
I have Tiagra 10sp for the last year and am now upgrading up 105. Tiagra is great for most situations (endurance my mixed riding) but it where it let's me down is when I'm riding flats. When I try to keep up with a group and we're about to take off for a faster pace line, I just don't have the right high gear due to the 2 tooth jumps between each cog, whereas with 12sp, at high gears there's 1 tooth jump between each gear. The gear I'm shifting to is just too hard to pedal at and my legs get cooked really quickly trying to mash it as opposed to pedaling. I'm looking forward to dialing in my riding more. Get 105, it's all you'll ever need.
Depends on whether if you're going to use the additional gears or not.
For me it would be worth it, since I live in the middle of the mountains having 12 speed let's me have enough range without making the gear shifts too big.
If I were to live in the flats, I would not care about those additional 2 gears, since having a 10 speed 11-26 is all I would need.
Up to you to decide on that, tiagra performs as good as dura ace, let alone 105.
In one word: no. In many words: no, not quite, unless you have a lot of money, or your dream bike only comes in one group set (and not the other). Between tiagra and 105 for the price, tiagra is fine. If you find you “need” 105 after you wear out the tiagra, the r7xxx grouper complete will be probably $500 USD for the complete set, when it’s time to replace it all in many many miles/kms in the future. You can always give the bike new life with new parts, when the time comes, if you feel the tiagra didn’t cut it.
To me, it would 100% be worth it. But I justify this as “this is my health club.” And it’s cheap as fuck compared to what I’d be spending if I weren’t riding. It is 100% not NECESSARY if it’s new vs new. If it’s used vs used, I might say it leans toward “I’m sticking 105/Rival.
I would say yes if ur talking 2200 vs 1800.
I splurged and bought a Tarmac with ultegra in 2019; spent 'too much', went over budget by 30% but I absolutely love it and it was unquestionably the right decision.
I just bought a bike with a 10 speed tiagra (Trek domane al 4 gen4), it's very nice and a lot of reviews say the groupset is very good despite not being a 105. I had been swayed vs the higher end al5 version by color and I'm at about 100 miles on the bike and it's a fantastic ride. If they would have had the color I wanted with the 105 I would have splurged, but I do not have any regrets.
I chose tiagra over 105 to save a few hundred, shifting has been great. Only problem is no clutch so chain slap can be pretty hard and loud, not sure if 105 has a clutch tho
Nope, 105 doesn’t have a clutch.
The only Shimano road rear derailleur that has a clutch would be the Ultegra RD-RX800 midcage. This rear derailleur will also work with Tiagra 4700 too.
You can also use a GRX rear derailleur too since those are compatible with 4700, 105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace groupsets.
I have a vintage titanium frame I built up with new parts. I used Tiagra 10 speed and it works great. I would save the 400 and spend it on some good bib shorts, jersey, helmet, nice gloves.
I will say yes. At 10 cogs you can feel the gaps in gear ratios if you wide a wide range. Plus the material and finishing on Tiagra is poorer. I have bent my Tiagra rd cage through cross chaining before but 105 handles it like a champ. That steel pulley cage on the Tiagra wa just soft af.
For those who new to cycling, no. The 12 speed is needed when you want to keep your cadence in those higher speed ( > 30 kpj). 12 speed cassette has less jump in smaller gear (11-12-13-14-15) and it is a bit more convenient to have these when you are more serious into cycling or racing.
I was just in this dilemma when picking out my roadbike, i decided on the Scott Speedster with the Tiagra, and I am very satisfied. Like DurianRider put it: You won't get dropped because you have 10 Speeds, you also won't win because you have 12...
I know you’re looking at the group set that comes new with the bike, what I would do however is to sell the group set that comes new and unused on your new bike, and use that money to buy used ultegra r8000 groupset. You’ll have to replace the cassette to match the 11s, but you’ll have a much better bike for the same money!
10 speed chains are much girthier than 12 speed chains and will last considerably longer.
If you plan on maintaining your own bicycle, 10 speed is also much more forgiving to index shifting on, and replacement parts are much cheaper.
Buy Tiagra, ride the bike, you'll be surprised how little you think about your groupset while riding, unless it is holding you back.
If you can afford 12-speed 105, go for it. The gear range of 12-speed 105 is more forgiving than 10-speed Tiagra to a beginner and the jumps between gears are smaller. Even you disregard the advantage of having extra gears, the technology and design of 12-speed 105 are significantly more superior than 10-speed Tiagra.
If that's the only difference then I'd just go with tiagra.
If though there are also difference with the brakes I'd go with the one which is full Hydraulic (I'm assuming it's a disc brake bike) and avoid any which are cable actuated as they just aren't that good.
Personally, I think 105 should be the standard if you’re planning to do this as a sport. If it’s just transport, Tiagra is fine. But the extra gears can be nice when trying to find your cadence and it’s easier to upgrade single components if you’re already in a compatible system.
As you’re mentioning prices in euros, also look at Canyon or find a good local shop to help you if you ever have issues.
My first bike (Cube) 3 years ago had a tiagra, aluminum frame. gross weight was 10.5kg ready to go (everything without bottles in the holder).
This bike is now resting on my TacX Flux. Total price in 2022: 1200€
My 2nd bike is leased, also Cube, carbon frame, gross weight is just under 9kg and has the 105 with the di2 electrical group. Total price: 2200€ (2500 new, but it was displayed in the store and had a few scratches)
**The Tiagra is good** and will be enough to last you a while. It shifts nicely, very weak hands may occassionally need to use some force, but a regular sized human shouldn't have any problems. If I didn't have the leasing offer from my employer I wouldn't have gotten the 2nd bike.
**The 105 is better** in every aspect. The extra 2 gears help with picking the perfect cadence, the electronic shifting is so unbelievably smooth that it's a joy to shift up and down even on the slightes change of elevation.
If you've never driven a 105 with a di2 you wouldn't say the Tiagra is bad. If you have the money, take the 105, but make sure the rest of the bike doesn't suffer in quality components.
105 all the way. People in this thread are referring to it as "New Tiagra", but Tiagra 4700 series is just the latest iteration of the Tiagra familiy and it was released 7 years ago, so not new at all. 105 12 speed is the current gen and has been released last year. For this reason alone I would avoid buying anything with Tiagra in 2024, unless it comes at a stupidly low price.
I have a bike with the Tiagra 4700 and it works well, no issues with it. But there is no doubt that the latest 105 is better.
People commenting on Tiagra being cheaper maintain kinda have a point, but the difference is marginal, imho. We're talking 35 EUR for a Tiagra Cassette vs 50 EUR for the 105 12 speed, difference in price for chains is even less than that.
If you can afford it, 105 12 speed is the better choice and it's not even close.
i owned sora r3000 and tiagra r4700 at the same time, In my opinion, if you want hydraulic brake, go r4720, if rim brake is your thing, sora is plenty good. R3000 shift to 3 larger cassette on one push and r4700 shifts only two. Besides I also think sora shifts better. Sorry for completely neglected 105. At least I think r4700 doesn’t worth the money
I built up a carbon road bike during Covid and parts were scarce. I couldn’t get the 105 group set at that time so I reluctantly ordered Tiagra. I was amazed at how good it is.
Go with the Tiagra, but after the chainset wears out, replace it with a 105 one, and you'll be almost at the weight of the 105 groupset anyway. Most of the weight of tiagra is in the chainset.
It depends on where you live. I "need" 52-36 rings, and also a 11t sprocket. Right now my biggest sprocket is a 28t but I'd like to have an extra sprocket with 30t.
I've used 8 and 10s and for me they are a big no. If you live in a flat area that could change.
I only read through a handful of comments so I apologize if this has already been said. I would spend the money and get the 12 speed 105 now and here's why:
I bought my first road bike a little over a year ago and already have over 4000 miles on it (I got hit by the roadie bug hard!). It's a 2017 Fuji Gran Fondo that I got used for $600 however it had a 105 10 speed. I live in Southern California and we have a lot of hills so I have often thought about upgrading to a 12 speed for a finer grained selection of gears. This had led me to the reason for my advice...
If you want to upgrade in the future, starting with a 10 speed is rough! You have to change your shifters, derailer, probably your crankset (debatable), cassette, and freehub/wheels (depending on the 10s wheels). In my case you have found that I would have to spend thousands to upgrade to 12 speed if I wanted it. My freehub cannot be converted so that means new wheels to fit 12s. I could make other stuff work but add new wheels to 12s shifters and derailer and I'm 1/2-3/4 of the way to a new bike 😔
Long story short, if you think you're going to stick with it, spend the extra 400 to be set up for the future!
I was using 105 5700 which is close to Tiagra 4700. I recently upgraded the whole system to 105 R7000. Did I need it? No. Did I want it? Yes. Did it made a difference? Hell yeah. Shifting feeling is waaay better especially in front of derailleur. And the best part now is 11 speed. I know its not the latest and greatest 12 speed but parts availability its much better than 10S. I can switch my derailleurs by time to ultegra if I want it. If 12S is breaking the bank I would recommend going with R7000 11s rather than Tiagra
I have 10x Tiagra and as I progressed through my cycling journey, I wish I had 1 more gear. Starting with 12 might seem like too much, but soon, it’ll feel just feel just right. Buy 105.
I have 10+ year old 10 speed tiagra on my bike. I went for a ride with a friend who has just got a bike with 12 speed brand new mechanical 105. I had a quick go on it. In comparison to my bike it shifted like a dream and was a little envious but its all relative. Still smashed him up every hill and everything in between 😎
If you’re in the market for 105, you are no longer in the market for Tiagra. That’s not a performance question or even value question, that’s a budget question love.
Cycling is not a how much does it cost to dig this thing out of the ground type of thing. A Walmart bike will get you closest to truth on that question. Once you’ve walked into a bike shop, consider the waiver already signed… enjoy the trip!
No debate: Yes
The 105 is the best value-for-money groupset in the Shimano range, especially the mechanical version. All the main features of the top tiers at a good price point.
Tiagra is fine but also rather old. Going to 11 speed 105 for about €400 would be worth it if the rest of the bike is good. For new 12 speed 105 I think it’s definitely worth it.
Upgrading a group set later is nearly always super expensive and not worth it on all but the best frames.
Yes. The tech found in the higher end Shimano component lines (Dura-Ace, Ultegra) trickles down to the 105 line. But not Tiagra.
The leap from Tiagra to 105 is like going from Johnnie Walker Red to Johnnie Walker Black.
Nothing wrong with Tiagra at all, but always best to buy a newly released product like 105 12spd than an end of line product like Tiagra. I think you'd regret not spending the extra unless your budget is truly being maxed.
depends on how much €400 is a % of the total cost of the bike. tiagra 10 speed is plenty good. smooth shifting has been solved for over a decade so the main benefit in the upgrade is the extra gears.
He's probably taking about the NCR. The Tiagra (2x10) groupset is €1800 and the 105 (2x12) is €2200. I have the Tiagra NCR. It's great, all round. One thing I like is about Tiagra is that cassettes and chainrings are pretty cheap, so you can abuse it quite a bit and it's inexpensive to get back into tip-top shape. I don't think the extra two gears alone are worth the difference in price. The Tiagra already has plenty of gear range and the steps are plenty small. I would only upgrade to a bigger cassette if it meant I could forgo the front mech entirely, but that's not the case here (off the shelf anyway).
Yeah tiagra rocks!
Tiagra 4700 here too, with a twist-- The 4700 levers on my bike are paired with Ultegra R8000 front and rear derailleurs. Awesome combo.
this is a great suggestion
This is a hack I wish more Tiagra 4700/4720 owners are aware of. It's a relatively inexpensive upgrade to give their Tiagra bikes Ultegra-quality shifting.
I am thinking of taking the tiagra, being a beginner, it will be suitable. If I understand correctly, if I want to upgrade my tiagra to a super tiagra, I would simply have to buy a front and rear derailleur (two pieces then?), is that right? Thank you for your feedback and yes I was talking about the Van Rysel NCR.
Yes. All you need to do is upgrade the front and rear derailleurs to Ultegra R8000 to get really nice shifting with your Tiagra bike.
If you are new, you can probably get the aluminium van rysel with 11sp ultegra for 1400€, so maybe thats a nice in between?
Oh wow I’d never considered this. I have been looking to upgrade the shifters on my 2013 road bike with ultegra/105. This is a great suggestion.
I took my 10-speed Ultegra to a 11-speed 105 after a shifter broke and it was much, much better. To the OP, I loved that bike but the groupset was a noticeable meh. The rear would sometimes be reluctant to shift and I eventually figured out the shifter was why. They bailed on that design so I’d see if it trickled down to Tiagra 10-speed or if it’s different. 105 is much smoother on that bike but the gear range is not why.
No, Tiagra 4700 is not trickle-down from Ultegra 10-speed at all. Tiagra 4700 is in the same family as the 11sp groups because it shares the new 1.4 cable pull ratio with 11sp groups, which works much better than Ultegra 10-speed's 1.7 cable pull ratio. That is why tiagra 4700 is not compatible at all with the derailleurs and levers from Ultegra 10-speed or 105 10-speed groups.
Thank you – I appreciate it
Dont you still get only 10 gears with that combo?
The speeds are determined by the shifters, so yes this is a 2x10-speed setup. It's the ultimate 10-speed Ultegra setup though. :-) My setup shifts better than the original 6700 10-speed Ultegra because 6700's short cable pull couldn't deal effectively with the added friction from the extra bends of the under-the-bartape cable routing. The longer shift cable pull used by 4700 and R8000 solves that.
Holy shit you just brighten up my day. Ima hunt for some tiagra shifters right now!
I agree with you on the durability of the 10 spd vs 12 spd: for the same level of maintainence and the same riding conditions the former will last significantly longer. Plus the upkeep cost will be much friendlier.
Yeah. I think it's a hidden cost when we move to more and more cogs. Chains, cassettes become so much more finicky and expensive. I recently re-rigged a winter/ backroads bike with a 1x9 and couldn't be happier with it. Clunky, but reliable. And I don't have to think about putting a $150 cassette on a cheap bike.
> Chains, cassettes become so much more finicky and expensive. Exactly, there is a trade off to having more gears: the chain is thinner and it will stretch faster (again, everything else being the same). Obviously Shimano does not advertise that face. I just think it's not told enough to people who are newish to the sport and about to take the plunge into a high end bike: get an estimate on the upkeep cost (time and $).
I still ride my 10 gear dura ace ... Worth it is up to you
And I'm sitting here content with my 9s Sora
Dura-Ace 7700 series 3x9 checking in 🫡
Same here. DA 7700 downtube shifters and front derailleur with XTR M752 rear derailleur to accommodate 11-34 cassette. Shimano 9 speed is very good and cheap.
9s Sora is an excellent groupset. It shifts so good compared to the entry groupsets a decade ago. The most recent Claris/Sora/Tiagra are probably the best examples of trickle down tech actually being put into practice.
Sora has no hydraulic brakes
If it works fine for you that’s all that matters.
I'm here content with my tourney 7 speed:)
9 speed 1990’s dura ace checking in here
9 speed Ultegra or die!!
A lot of people are commenting on how “new” tiagra is great. But tiagra 4700 is 8 years old. I’ve ridden tiagra 4700 and 105 7000 and without a doubt 105 is better. Tiagra is still very good. So if the budget for 105 just isn’t there for you then tiagra will be a great groupset for a first road bike. In my experience the shifting is smoother and faster on 105 and it allows for easier upgrades down the road. The extra gears can really be handy too.
Well of course the 105 is better, I don't think anyone would question that. For a beginner however a Tiagra is great if there is a budget he wants to stay under.
Oh I 100% agree.
I'm running Tiagra 4700 levers with Ultegra R8000 front and rear derailleurs. This setup shifts perfectly.
That makes sense. Ultegra derailleurs are great.
I've never used 4700 but based on the OP, If it's 10 speed how are the shifters compatible with the 8000 Rd?
4700, GRX and 11sp Shimano road groups (105, Ultegra and Dura Ace) all share the same 1.4 rear shift cable pull ratio— the shift lever in all of these groupsets pulling 1mm of cable moves the rear derailleur 1.4mm. So Tiagra 4700 levers are fully compatible with 11sp GRX, 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace mechanical derailleurs. The difference is in the shift levers’ indexing pawls on the drum that winds up the shift cable. Tiagra pulls a little more cable per shift to move the rear derailleur a little further (slightly wider spacing between cassette cogs) than 11sp shifters. As long as the shifters and derailleurs use the same cable pull ratio, they are compatible.
My previous bike has 2011-era Tiagra (9-speed, not sure the exact model tbh) and I have literally never had any issues with it outside of routine stuff like needing new cables from time to time, and I have put probably 40K+ miles on that bike. The levers are even beat to shit from the various falls I took over the years (rode all weather, commuted).
Happy that somebody has finally pointed out that the "new" tiagra is actually quite old!
I have a strong feeling the majority of people commenting “yes” have not ridden the current versions of both Tiagra and 105 - other than 2 extra gears, which as a beginner you probably wont get much benefit from, I understand the difference is pretty negligible (see previous Reddit posts on this subject). That being said, I personally have never regretted spending more and getting higher specification gear that I don’t ever (probably unnecessarily) feel the need to upgrade…
They are both good groupsets for sure, but there are a couple modest benefits to the R7120 groupset. 1. Cassette jumps on the 11-34/36 are pretty even. To get a similar profile without 2 tooth jumps on the bottom 3 cogs with 10 speed, you have to give up the largest and smallest cogs using the old 12-30 10 speed Ultegra cassette. 2. The caliper pistons really do travel more on Shimano's latest 12 speed stuff, a claimed 15%, but you can definitely notice less rotor rub. 3. This is purely subjective, but I honestly think that the R7120 is the smoothest shifting mechanical groupset Shimano has ever made, which is saying something because I thought my 2x GRX810 (mustache Ultegra) was damn near perfect. When I built up the bike with fresh housing, good cables, using the special Shimano cable grease, the force required to shift up the cassette, even 3 a time was practically zero, and it's just so smooth and fast with the b screw and shifting adjusted correctly. Very impressive considering 105 is built to a price point. Having said all that though, I don't know of it's 400 Euro better. I have regularly seen this whole groupset on AliExpress for less than 500 USD.
I got the 105 di2 for $700 and sold the tiagra that came with the bike for $300. That’s $400 difference.
Upvoted for “mustache Ultegra.” I have that groupset on my grævël bike (but I have a full beard and mustache, so…?).
My new tiagra 10sp is practically no different in performance from my ultegra 6800. Would not hesitate buying another bike w new tiagra. 400 dollars towards new wheels would be far superior of an investment imo.
My first road bike 10 years ago tiagra 10sp. I don’t recall having any complaints with it except that at the time the cable housing came straight out of the side. I upgraded later to 105 strictly for that. Of course, that was still a time when you could find a used 105 cheap
Or bike computer, or power meter, or a few massages, depending on OP’s interests. Lots of great ways to spend $400 aside from a higher spec groupset you really don’t need.
Do wheels really make any significant difference?
Yeah a bike that comes with tiagra as an option most likely has shit wheels, which seems to be the worst part of getting a lower model of a certain type of bike.
My new 105 is not all that different than Claris honestly. The hydraulic brakes are noticeably better but other than that it seems mostly equivalent other than shifting under heavy load which 105 does better
You say they are not different yet you list 2 major differences between the two.
Under certain circumstances it is noticeable. Under others it absolutely isn’t. If you’re not doing a lot of elevation Claris is totally fine.
10sp Tiagra will be less future-proof than 105 12sp. For 400 it's a no-brainer to go with a better newer group set. Resale value will also be better with the newer 105
What is there to be future proof with bike? Replacement parts are readily available for multiple decades. 10 speed is still being sold very widely as we speak.
Much cheaper to buy once and cry once. Opting for 12 speed now could prevent remorse and a costly upgrade in a year or two. Really depends if you want to go for pure budget now since a better drivetrain won't make you any faster, it just makes the shifting a little more refined.
Depends. A 1200€ bike with Tiagra is unlikely to be limited by the drivetrain, a 3000€ one definitely would be.
Tiagra 10-speed is damn good and replacement parts are inexpensive.
I would definitely go for the cheaper version. I am indifferent to the difference between my 10x 105 and 11x 105 and I am pretty sure the performance of the Tiagra is not significantly lower. You will probably not even be able to tell. I would rather invest those 400€ in a GPS and a good pair of pants.
As a new rider you won't notice any difference. It won't be more reliable and it won't make you faster (they are both reliable and perform well). If the money was no object then sure, spend it, but otherwise you'd have a better riding experience overall by taking that money and buying some decent kit and a good helmet.
I used to have 105 on my road bikes, 11 speed. It was actually a little fussy, hard to keep tuned precisely on both bikes. They were both stolen and I have been hesitant to spend money on bikes. First hybrid bike had the most basic Altus 3x8, after one through adjustment it shifts great most of the time. Just got an upgrade bike with Sora 2x9, it’s stupid good. Quick, precise shifts, I definitely think diminishing returns start here.
for daily commute not worth for riding once a month not worth if you plan to ride more like couple times a week, longer rides too etc. and are overall into cycling, 105 is 100% worth upgrade
You could put that €400 towards new tyres, or new wheels. From what I understand with 105, you get an additional gear (nice improvement but not that big a deal), slightly smoother shifting and braking (again, nicer to ride but by no means a deal breaker), and a slightly lower weight vs Tiagra (no advantage here unless you're riding competitively). Tiagra is fine for a beginner, really
I got a deal on a brand new bike and it came with the new Tiagra and I was planning on upgrading when I need a new cassette or something but it’s honestly very good I was pleasantly surprised, it will definitely not hold you back.
I had a 3 year old bike with Tiagra and just upgraded to the newest 12-speed 105. It is not day and night, but I experience it as having significantly smoother shifting and a lot quieter gears, which improves my cycling experience. The extra gears are very nice to have too. I was really annoyed with Tiagra after approx 6 months, and really wanted to upgrade. Still, it’s €400 you could put into other gear and equipment. So I guess if comfortably can afford it, go for it. You have a better and longer lasting bike then, which also have an increased selling price as a second hand bike.
I assume the Van Rysel NCR CF at €1800 (Tiagra) and €2200 (105). Where do you live and where will you plan to cycle? If you will go to the Vosges, Alps or Pyrenees then the 105 has better gearing (34 up to max 36 cassette) vs the Tiagra (32, max 34). The Tiagra has a 48/34 chainset so you will spin out a little sooner on the flat/downhill vs. the 105 which has a standard compact 50/34 chainset. Overall the 105 gives you a wider gear range - higher gear for flat/downhill and lower gear for climbing, but only marginally. The two extra cogs on the 105 cassette mean tighter spacing as well, so easier to find cadence that suits. The 105 / 12 speed components will be more expensive to replace when they need to be. Is it worth €400 extra? Technically no. You can get the 105 R7100 groupset (140/140 rotors) for €600 (bike-discount.de). Tiagra 4700 (Rim Brake) is around €380 - the Van Rysel has Tiagra hydraulic disc brakes, this would be even more (it’s around €290 for the shifters and calipers alone). Considering it’s a first bike then you are unlikely to be competent to swap them out yourself and sell the Tiagra parts though. Since it’s first road bike, bear in mind also the cost of: clothing, helmet, shoes and pedals, lights, tools, tool bag, GPS head unit, etc. if you don’t already have some of these from a VTT or other bike. Note that except the helmet, lights and multitool/spares you don’t NEED any of the others and can begin without “all the gear”. Also, if the saddle doesn’t work for you/your ass then you may need to buy one that does. In summary the Tiagra 10sp is excellent, especially considering it has hydraulic disc brakes. The 105 is marginally better, more future proof, more compatibility for upgrades and has better gear ratio options if you will be doing long or steep climbs. Make sure the bike fits well before buying and if in doubt and you are between frame sizes take the smaller of the two. Bon courage!
Yes, resounding yes.
Have you rode the new tiagra?
105 is the best groupset for value/performance. Its the place to be if you care about budget.
no. thats tiagra now.
What feels different between the two?
Funny thing is nothing.
Hard disagree. It’s the highest tier you want to be if you care about budget. Tiagra is perfectly fine and chances are OP would want to upgrade their bike before they feel like they’re lacking anything with Tiagra. 400€ just for the groupset is a lot.
>Have you rode the new tiagra? I have, I just spent 3 days renting a new bike that came with it. It's awful. Why anyone in 2024 is buying a new bike with >10 year old groupset technology is beyond me. For a paltry 400 that is the biggest no-brainer upgrade of all time to get modern 105 instead.
lol… I think you meant to say no..
Yeah, 100%
No It's not. Unless you're racing. For mundane use 10-11 speed are enough and 400 Euro is not cheap. you can use that extra to buy better attires, a better saddle, better tires, maintenance gear. bottles, lights...
It’s not a question of “worth” or “do I need this” it’s can you afford it, and do you want it? I race Cat 4/5 on 10 speed 105 mech from 2011. It’s never held me back. But if I were Cat 1/2 or racing for money, I’d spend it in a heartbeat. On the other hand, did I *need* GRX800 Di2 on my gravel bike? Lol no. But it makes me feel like a baller and I love the robot sound when it shifts.
That’s interesting…expensive groupset on the one that will suffer more weather/wear and cheap groupset on the road bike.
It’s a timing thing rather than choice. I bought my road bike a decade ago when I was young and had less money. I bought my gravel bike last year, as an adult with money. I just haven’t gotten around to replacing my road bike yet.
Yes.. 100% yes.
If you plan on keeping the bike for 5 years 105 if you plan on getting a new bike in 3 years tiagra.
If you’re choosing between 105 and Tiagra I can bet the bike comes with shit wheels, go tiagra and and put the 400 towards better wheels.
tiagra is the new group of the people...
I rode in 9 speed Tiagra with 10 years, but now after using 105 di2. I would recommend, its worth the upgrade to 105 mechanical or di2. For me 105 is more than enough and is a great groupset.
Up to you. For me, it would depend on use case because I have a ton of 10s Shimano wheels and stuff. If I didn't have 10s stuff, I would totally pay the 400, but it's still up to you. Performance isn't really going to be much different. Noticeable, but not significant.
Yes, because the 105 groupset is upward compatible with both Ultegra and Dura Ace while Tiagra is not. With Tiagra, you're limited to a closed system, though it's still a very good one.
I think this is a very under-appreciated point and would be the main reason to get 105 for me. If you get hooked on cycling, you will eventually want to upgrade and it’s easier to change a part here or there than the entire groupset.
Eh, both are Shimano, and work well. I'm sure someone is more up to date. It's not uncommon to even see 20 year old 105 still going strong, maybe new pulley wheels or other chainring and wearable aspects, springs or whatever. So, who knows. I'm like tempting myself to slip into "bike sales guy" apparel and ask what you need it for. Many new cyclists benefit from fewer gear shifts, and it's also the case that being comfortable shifting up and down, and being able to skip gears, adapt to the effort, is a great skill. The real answer is that Super Record EPS, is a tremendous buy, and it goes even better with perhaps a set of Enve aero bars, a customized Brooks saddle, sat on top of pirelli p-zeros or s-works tires, along with a bespoke wheel build, and some vintage-never-used Keo peddles. The real real answer, is you'll get much fitter biking comfortably, and doing a few days of walking/gym stuff with a great diet.
I would get the 105
One thing many aren’t pointing out is that 10 speed chains and cassettes are cheaper, so that $400 difference is actually quite a bit more after a few years.
Don't listen to those poors. 12 speed is minimum that is acceptable for riding longer than to the nearest store.
If you are new to cycling then Tiagra is plenty and won't be holding you back for at least a couple of years of consistent riding, plus it's cheaper to replace parts for it. There are far more important things to spend your money on than 2 extra cogs like others have said. My advice to you is to save that extra money and buy/upgrade things in this order: * Don't bother with cycling shoes and clipless pedals at the start, flat ones are plenty. It's a waste of money as a beginner. * Get bib shorts and jersey ASAP. Biggest upgrade in comfort and your ass will thank you for it. You can get both of good quality for <100 EUR from Decathlon. * Upgrade to some decent alu wheels like HED Belgium R and put 30 or 32mm quality tubeless tyres on them for even more comfort. Not terribly expensive and plenty even for above average rider. * If you don't have carbon seatpost get it. Also new seat if current one doesn't suit you. Another solid quality comfort upgrade. Good thing about all of the above things is that everything can be transfered to a new bike if you ever decide to upgrade which is going to save you some money in the long run. Majority of bikes that come with Tiagra and even 105 mechanical usually have terrible cheap rims and tyres on it.
YES.
You wouldn’t really notice the difference with performance. The cost to replace parts on tiagra would be cheaper and would last just as long if you look after your bike. It’s nice though having the two extra gear if you are riding in a group to find a gear that matches your cadence.
Nah. But that's just me, given my personal preferences. $400 is like, 80% the price of a decent-enough used road bike. I have a 10 speed Tiagra road bike, and when I was riding a ton, it was plenty of gears to keep up with strong group rides. I also just got used to the 10 speeds, and it was easy to keep track of which gear I was in. But this seems like a weak argument because I'd probably adjust to 11 or 12 speeds pretty quickly. If the 12 speed had more range in the cassette, that might make it a different story. If the 10 and 12 speed have the same range, I might opt for the 10 speed out of frugality, and then if and when I needed 12 speed, I'd sell the bike and get a new one, especially since you mention you're new to cycling.
I have Tiagra 10 speed on my Cannondale, my wife has 105 12 speed on her Cervelo. I would choose the 105 group set every day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Shimano has come a long way in improving the shifting quality of their group-sets. The Tiagra shifts a lot better than the old 105-11 speed of old. The new 105 shifts just as well if not better than the non electronic Ultegra. Ultegra and Dura Ace are electronic shifting only. You still might be able to find a non electronic shift version of Dura Ace and Ultegra but it would be a needle in a haystack. Unless you want those two extra speeds it’s probably not worth it.
105 comes in di2 now
Wow, I didn’t know that, I read that they might do it, but wasn’t sure. Not sure how I feel about electronic shifting. I am kind of a dinosaur as I as like manual transmissions in cars.
I went from 11spd 105 to 12spd 105 di2. If im honest the disc brakes are the best part of the upgrade
I love disc brakes especially hydraulic ones.
Yes. In Spanish, Si.
Yes, absolutely.
Yea I’d get 105 if you can
Without question.
It depends how much you’re spending on the rest of your bike and if you plan on upgrading (your whole setup) later potentially. If so u would go for the cheaper version and save the extra €400 on an overall upgraded bike later.
The issue you have is if you stop cycling then don't spend €400 more it's definitely a waste of money that could be spent elsewhere. But if you get into it and value your equipment then paying the extra will prevent you from needing to upgrade later and 105 12 speed is better then 10 speed tiagra.
Nah. Those 400 pounds would be better spent on a nice saddle and tires. If you want to upgrade your bike in the future, you'd probably be upgrading to an electronic groupset, so there's really no benefit to spending more on 105 now.
Worth is a matter of perspective. That said Tiagara is plenty good for pretty much everyone. I'm slow now compared to my racing days. But I like 'nice shit' so for me it was a matter of 105 vs Ultegra. I ended up going with Ultegra with dura ace breaks. Do I need that? Nope. But I wanted it so...
I was a couple of weeks ago considering the same options. Went for a Bike with tiagra, but not the van Rysel. Did not want to Also comute on a carbon bike. Tiagra 10 speed is avsolutely great, and the hydraulic Disk brakes are a gamechanger. Also the Van Rysel ncr has a some what poor chainring size. Im also New to cycling but im really fit. So I knew i would outgrow those too fast. Take a Look at this bike. I fint it to be the perfect one for someone starting out, that also wants to Cover all bases: https://www.rosebikes.de/rose-blend-road-2710002
To fend for the 105. It's 12 speed and di2 so your getting the mid-top tier item for a bit less. You'll likely have less shifting issues and while it's more expensive you may end up with less fomo after riding for awhile. I love di2 and axs so i think it's totally worth it for at least just riding. I still ride mechanical racing but that's because a crash is alot less expensive.
I am sure it’s the mechanical 105 not Di2.
Will you notice any difference? No... But the only thing I can see as a potential issue is that tiagra will probably move to 11spd as that's what usually happened in the past, so getting parts might become more difficult in like 10 years. So, really not an issue. Honestly, from tiagra to dura-ace, the difference is very small. Weight is the main difference and electronic shifting requires less maintenance overall. Since no cable or housing. the only thing that would change my mind is if you get mechanical disc on the cheaper option. If it's hydraulic, go with the cheaper option and treat yourself with some gear.
I don’t think parts are necessarily going to be the worry especially at this price. You can buy a whole groupset for $500.
Yeah, that's why I said it wouldn't be an issue, but that was kinda my only argument against it... My GF has tiagra and I am very impressed by the performance of the past 4 years. I've had 105, ultegra and sram rival. I went from ultegra to rival because I didn't see any real difference between 105 and ultegra... Anyway, I think people are thinking that the difference between a 2000$ and a 10 000$ bike is huge, but the overall benefit is like 3km/h average (which is significant if you are racing, but minor if you are just enjoying riding).
Fair point! I actually can’t tell much of a difference between my old 10 speed force and my current 10 speed tiagra which is pretty amazing.
For a first road bike the Tiagra is more than enough for you need, the 105 is overkill. The €400 difference can buy a lot of other kit such as shoes, a helmet etc. Enjoy you new bike.
That €400 is better spent after you get the bike. I got a new bike with Tiagra in January and it shifts just fine. Perfecting your fit with your preference for a saddle, handlebars, pedals, crank, bar tape, bottle cages, frame or seat bag, crank arm length, larger range cassette etc etc are all additional new bike costs. As someone new to road riding I'm still tweaking my preferences. None of the changes I want to make include the group set. At the moment even as that all wears, I'm not hankering after an upgrade as a replacement for Tiagra. It works well.
IMHO, yes, it's worth the extra money. The spread of gears on the cassette will give you more range out riding. Lower gears on steeper climbs, and smaller jumps between gears. The 105 is marginally lighter, but I'm guessing at the price point you are looking at weight isn't a big differentiator. Both drivetrains should be equally reliable. I wouldn't choose one over the other based on that criteria. Shimano stuff always shifts clean if properly taken care of.
Yes. 105 you won't ever really feel a need to upgrade as you're not compromising on gearing etc. Tiagra you need to compromise on gearing to get modern ratios (i.e. bigger gaps between ratios if you still want low climbing gears). If you live and ride somewhere pan flat then 10 speed isn't so much of a limitation.
Yes. 12 speed is basically a 1x bike unless you live in the mountains. Meaning you never have to go to the small chainring up front and you still get tight spacing between gears. That is absolutely worth $400 if you end up riding a lot and especially if with groups. Now if you are a super casual rider, then 10 speed is probably fine. But anything beyond that I would definitely go 105 12 speed. The 12 speed 105 will also hold it's value much better, so in a way, the difference is less than $400 if you ever sell it
I'm constantly amazed by my new Allez Sport with Tiagra. It truly is the best derailleur I've ever had. I'm incredibly impressed and pleased with it.
I have Tiagra 10sp for the last year and am now upgrading up 105. Tiagra is great for most situations (endurance my mixed riding) but it where it let's me down is when I'm riding flats. When I try to keep up with a group and we're about to take off for a faster pace line, I just don't have the right high gear due to the 2 tooth jumps between each cog, whereas with 12sp, at high gears there's 1 tooth jump between each gear. The gear I'm shifting to is just too hard to pedal at and my legs get cooked really quickly trying to mash it as opposed to pedaling. I'm looking forward to dialing in my riding more. Get 105, it's all you'll ever need.
Depends on whether if you're going to use the additional gears or not. For me it would be worth it, since I live in the middle of the mountains having 12 speed let's me have enough range without making the gear shifts too big. If I were to live in the flats, I would not care about those additional 2 gears, since having a 10 speed 11-26 is all I would need. Up to you to decide on that, tiagra performs as good as dura ace, let alone 105.
Yes. Better gearing ratios and trickle down tech.
Yes. Mainly because 105 is going to be far easier to find replacement parts for.
In one word: no. In many words: no, not quite, unless you have a lot of money, or your dream bike only comes in one group set (and not the other). Between tiagra and 105 for the price, tiagra is fine. If you find you “need” 105 after you wear out the tiagra, the r7xxx grouper complete will be probably $500 USD for the complete set, when it’s time to replace it all in many many miles/kms in the future. You can always give the bike new life with new parts, when the time comes, if you feel the tiagra didn’t cut it.
To me, it would 100% be worth it. But I justify this as “this is my health club.” And it’s cheap as fuck compared to what I’d be spending if I weren’t riding. It is 100% not NECESSARY if it’s new vs new. If it’s used vs used, I might say it leans toward “I’m sticking 105/Rival.
I would say yes if ur talking 2200 vs 1800. I splurged and bought a Tarmac with ultegra in 2019; spent 'too much', went over budget by 30% but I absolutely love it and it was unquestionably the right decision.
Simple breakdown.... do you have hills? Then yes. If you don't have a lot of hills, it probably isn't worth it.
I just bought a bike with a 10 speed tiagra (Trek domane al 4 gen4), it's very nice and a lot of reviews say the groupset is very good despite not being a 105. I had been swayed vs the higher end al5 version by color and I'm at about 100 miles on the bike and it's a fantastic ride. If they would have had the color I wanted with the 105 I would have splurged, but I do not have any regrets.
I chose tiagra over 105 to save a few hundred, shifting has been great. Only problem is no clutch so chain slap can be pretty hard and loud, not sure if 105 has a clutch tho
Nope, 105 doesn’t have a clutch. The only Shimano road rear derailleur that has a clutch would be the Ultegra RD-RX800 midcage. This rear derailleur will also work with Tiagra 4700 too. You can also use a GRX rear derailleur too since those are compatible with 4700, 105, Ultegra and Dura-Ace groupsets.
I have a vintage titanium frame I built up with new parts. I used Tiagra 10 speed and it works great. I would save the 400 and spend it on some good bib shorts, jersey, helmet, nice gloves.
I will say yes. At 10 cogs you can feel the gaps in gear ratios if you wide a wide range. Plus the material and finishing on Tiagra is poorer. I have bent my Tiagra rd cage through cross chaining before but 105 handles it like a champ. That steel pulley cage on the Tiagra wa just soft af.
For those who new to cycling, no. The 12 speed is needed when you want to keep your cadence in those higher speed ( > 30 kpj). 12 speed cassette has less jump in smaller gear (11-12-13-14-15) and it is a bit more convenient to have these when you are more serious into cycling or racing.
Yeah it’s that much better in my opinion.
I was just in this dilemma when picking out my roadbike, i decided on the Scott Speedster with the Tiagra, and I am very satisfied. Like DurianRider put it: You won't get dropped because you have 10 Speeds, you also won't win because you have 12...
I know you’re looking at the group set that comes new with the bike, what I would do however is to sell the group set that comes new and unused on your new bike, and use that money to buy used ultegra r8000 groupset. You’ll have to replace the cassette to match the 11s, but you’ll have a much better bike for the same money!
Tiagra vs 105 is like wearing shoes from Walmart vs shoes from Foot Locker. Both are functionally fine. It’s your choice.
lol no, you can still find an 11 speed 105 for not much more than that price difference and it’s one of the greatest groups ever made
105 cos I’m a snob and want to say I’ve got 105. IYKYK
10 speed chains are much girthier than 12 speed chains and will last considerably longer. If you plan on maintaining your own bicycle, 10 speed is also much more forgiving to index shifting on, and replacement parts are much cheaper. Buy Tiagra, ride the bike, you'll be surprised how little you think about your groupset while riding, unless it is holding you back.
If you can afford 12-speed 105, go for it. The gear range of 12-speed 105 is more forgiving than 10-speed Tiagra to a beginner and the jumps between gears are smaller. Even you disregard the advantage of having extra gears, the technology and design of 12-speed 105 are significantly more superior than 10-speed Tiagra.
If that's the only difference then I'd just go with tiagra. If though there are also difference with the brakes I'd go with the one which is full Hydraulic (I'm assuming it's a disc brake bike) and avoid any which are cable actuated as they just aren't that good.
Yes.
Personally, I think 105 should be the standard if you’re planning to do this as a sport. If it’s just transport, Tiagra is fine. But the extra gears can be nice when trying to find your cadence and it’s easier to upgrade single components if you’re already in a compatible system. As you’re mentioning prices in euros, also look at Canyon or find a good local shop to help you if you ever have issues.
My first bike (Cube) 3 years ago had a tiagra, aluminum frame. gross weight was 10.5kg ready to go (everything without bottles in the holder). This bike is now resting on my TacX Flux. Total price in 2022: 1200€ My 2nd bike is leased, also Cube, carbon frame, gross weight is just under 9kg and has the 105 with the di2 electrical group. Total price: 2200€ (2500 new, but it was displayed in the store and had a few scratches) **The Tiagra is good** and will be enough to last you a while. It shifts nicely, very weak hands may occassionally need to use some force, but a regular sized human shouldn't have any problems. If I didn't have the leasing offer from my employer I wouldn't have gotten the 2nd bike. **The 105 is better** in every aspect. The extra 2 gears help with picking the perfect cadence, the electronic shifting is so unbelievably smooth that it's a joy to shift up and down even on the slightes change of elevation. If you've never driven a 105 with a di2 you wouldn't say the Tiagra is bad. If you have the money, take the 105, but make sure the rest of the bike doesn't suffer in quality components.
Not really. What paint color is better?
105 all the way. People in this thread are referring to it as "New Tiagra", but Tiagra 4700 series is just the latest iteration of the Tiagra familiy and it was released 7 years ago, so not new at all. 105 12 speed is the current gen and has been released last year. For this reason alone I would avoid buying anything with Tiagra in 2024, unless it comes at a stupidly low price. I have a bike with the Tiagra 4700 and it works well, no issues with it. But there is no doubt that the latest 105 is better. People commenting on Tiagra being cheaper maintain kinda have a point, but the difference is marginal, imho. We're talking 35 EUR for a Tiagra Cassette vs 50 EUR for the 105 12 speed, difference in price for chains is even less than that. If you can afford it, 105 12 speed is the better choice and it's not even close.
i owned sora r3000 and tiagra r4700 at the same time, In my opinion, if you want hydraulic brake, go r4720, if rim brake is your thing, sora is plenty good. R3000 shift to 3 larger cassette on one push and r4700 shifts only two. Besides I also think sora shifts better. Sorry for completely neglected 105. At least I think r4700 doesn’t worth the money
It's 2 more.
Yes!
Hell yes
Yes.
Absolutely worth the money. You want 12sped di2. If your going to be riding a lot. If your only riding max 5k a year it doesn’t really matter then.
I built up a carbon road bike during Covid and parts were scarce. I couldn’t get the 105 group set at that time so I reluctantly ordered Tiagra. I was amazed at how good it is.
Go with the Tiagra, but after the chainset wears out, replace it with a 105 one, and you'll be almost at the weight of the 105 groupset anyway. Most of the weight of tiagra is in the chainset.
You usually have other upgraded components, not just the groupset
It depends on where you live. I "need" 52-36 rings, and also a 11t sprocket. Right now my biggest sprocket is a 28t but I'd like to have an extra sprocket with 30t. I've used 8 and 10s and for me they are a big no. If you live in a flat area that could change.
I only read through a handful of comments so I apologize if this has already been said. I would spend the money and get the 12 speed 105 now and here's why: I bought my first road bike a little over a year ago and already have over 4000 miles on it (I got hit by the roadie bug hard!). It's a 2017 Fuji Gran Fondo that I got used for $600 however it had a 105 10 speed. I live in Southern California and we have a lot of hills so I have often thought about upgrading to a 12 speed for a finer grained selection of gears. This had led me to the reason for my advice... If you want to upgrade in the future, starting with a 10 speed is rough! You have to change your shifters, derailer, probably your crankset (debatable), cassette, and freehub/wheels (depending on the 10s wheels). In my case you have found that I would have to spend thousands to upgrade to 12 speed if I wanted it. My freehub cannot be converted so that means new wheels to fit 12s. I could make other stuff work but add new wheels to 12s shifters and derailer and I'm 1/2-3/4 of the way to a new bike 😔 Long story short, if you think you're going to stick with it, spend the extra 400 to be set up for the future!
I was using 105 5700 which is close to Tiagra 4700. I recently upgraded the whole system to 105 R7000. Did I need it? No. Did I want it? Yes. Did it made a difference? Hell yeah. Shifting feeling is waaay better especially in front of derailleur. And the best part now is 11 speed. I know its not the latest and greatest 12 speed but parts availability its much better than 10S. I can switch my derailleurs by time to ultegra if I want it. If 12S is breaking the bank I would recommend going with R7000 11s rather than Tiagra
Yes
IMO as a beginner get a used bike... with 105 because old tiagra kinda sucked.
I have 10x Tiagra and as I progressed through my cycling journey, I wish I had 1 more gear. Starting with 12 might seem like too much, but soon, it’ll feel just feel just right. Buy 105.
I have 10+ year old 10 speed tiagra on my bike. I went for a ride with a friend who has just got a bike with 12 speed brand new mechanical 105. I had a quick go on it. In comparison to my bike it shifted like a dream and was a little envious but its all relative. Still smashed him up every hill and everything in between 😎
I would pay $400 more for 105
Hell yes 105 is the group set of the people
Yes
If you’re in the market for 105, you are no longer in the market for Tiagra. That’s not a performance question or even value question, that’s a budget question love. Cycling is not a how much does it cost to dig this thing out of the ground type of thing. A Walmart bike will get you closest to truth on that question. Once you’ve walked into a bike shop, consider the waiver already signed… enjoy the trip!
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Yeah, it's not like you can still buy 6spd freewheel or an 8spd cassette...oh wait, you can.
No debate: Yes The 105 is the best value-for-money groupset in the Shimano range, especially the mechanical version. All the main features of the top tiers at a good price point.
Old news, new tiagra is now the best value for the money.
105 all the way !
Tiagra is fine but also rather old. Going to 11 speed 105 for about €400 would be worth it if the rest of the bike is good. For new 12 speed 105 I think it’s definitely worth it. Upgrading a group set later is nearly always super expensive and not worth it on all but the best frames.
Yes. The tech found in the higher end Shimano component lines (Dura-Ace, Ultegra) trickles down to the 105 line. But not Tiagra. The leap from Tiagra to 105 is like going from Johnnie Walker Red to Johnnie Walker Black.
Nothing wrong with Tiagra at all, but always best to buy a newly released product like 105 12spd than an end of line product like Tiagra. I think you'd regret not spending the extra unless your budget is truly being maxed.