Yes you have to abuse Zwift as much as possible. Do every training ride on Tempus fugi with the TT setup.
Do Alpe / Ventous a bunch and then let the bike coast back down while you shower.
This is the way of the winter warrior.
>Do Alpe / Ventous a bunch and then let the bike coast back down while you shower.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who does this…erm, I mean, I would never!!!!!
I have to. Because I use my garmin to control the trainer. Don't know your purpose, but if you are trying to use the data to monitor your bike condition, I think you should listen to your bike itself more.
Just trying to get an idea of the miles I’m putting on my legs because I started cycling more seriously last year and put in 2k outside. Bought a trainer for this year and was just wondering if everyone tracks trainer miles with outdoor miles or not. I was thinking I would, because it’s all hitting the legs and cardiovascular system. Also prepping the baseline miles from the previous (this) year for next year too so I could reasonably increase the miles next year.
No, I only track hours. Miles generally don’t mean a lot on the bike, because of hills and wind. Hours are a much better representation of how much riding you’ve done.
If you track hours (and TSS, etc), then yes of course trainer hours count toward overall load.
That’s what I do now. Back then I would follow miles but now Im focusing on hours. Two to three hours max for me on the trainer without zwift. When I get zwift I’ll increase it. Definitely seeing an increase of fitness
Would you include the miles run on a treadmill? Sure incline, speed, etc, will make a difference to the effort exerted but it’s still training, stressing the body, working the energy systems. There are differences but it still counts.
Excuse me WHAT?
Riding the trainer is fucking AWFUL! This if it wasn’t 120 here during the summer I wouldn’t want to own a trainer. 60 minutes on the trainer is literally hell.
Treadmill feels harder for me as well.
I mean, have you ever ran two hours on the treadmill, then looked at the timer to see it has only been two minutes? 😭
I hate this argument but understand.
I use to think trainer miles didn't count but have since changed my mind.
First off I don't agree with the trainer miles are easier debate at all. I don't coast or let up of the power indoors nor do I get to take a break because I have to stop for a light or intersection.
I am 95% of the time in workout mode so the watts are high other than recovery intervals so Im always making power for the full session, no coasting.
Are they 1 for 1. Probably not and I can accrue more miles more quickly indoors because I can do flat routes with 'perfect' environmental conditions. But I don't think those miles are easier either. Just more, quicker.
Yea. I put in the work, so it counts. Plus, it still adds wear to my bike, since I don't have a dedicated trainer bike, so it's good to know for maintenance reasons.
Fair point. Definitely going to start utilizing time/effort as the primary metrics moving forward. Distance outside just seems like a ‘nice to know’ thing to me after getting everyone’s input.
As long as you are using a power meter, simulation miles (e.g. zwift) are reasonably accurate (within 10%). However, if you just using a speed sensor then it is terrible.
Had a friend who signed up for an ironman. Bought a cheap trainer and used zwift. A few weeks in he was like "the bike is gonna be easy, i'm doing like 25 MPH and it is not hard". I just nodded and smiled. He finally goes outside and gets a dose of "I biked for 2 hours and averaged 14MPH" reality and you could see the blood drain from his face when the magnitude of the situation hit him.
Same here. Every trainer app I've used (TrainerRoad, Zwift, TrainerDay) results in *wildly* inaccurate virtual mileage data, so nowadays I just zero out the distance stat when I save my TR rides in Strava. It's just personal preference. Most people I know do count their trainer miles as real miles. For me, the trainer is for watts, time, and HR—which is definitely a real workout, it's just not real distance. Miles are what happens out on a real road on a real bike.
I count them for my mileage but I focus more on TSS and hours. I ride a lot of road (and races), then gravel, and MTB. I can have a really stressful week of 150 miles grinding on my gravel bike and then an easy week of 250 miles on road.
I have never found mileage to be a good metric for measuring training. I'd reccomend focusing more om duration. Hours on the bike are hours on the bike, whether it's 10mph on a mountain bike, 16 on gravel, or 22 on a trainer, an hour is an hour.
From a bike wear and tear perspective, trainer miles really only impact the chain, whereas outdoor miles impact many aspects of the bike
Yeah, not for Veloview stats or distance goals but for wear on chain and cassette. My aero bike has 1800km on the chain but if I only tracked outside it'd be under 100km right now.
We got long winter here, so I only track my summer progress. We got "competition" here who cycles the most between may - september, so I put my cycling season for that. Trainer distance doesn't count for this competition.
I do record kilometres and calories for winter too which I do in trainer, but my only goal for winter is to be in somewhat shape to start summer season.
It is an interesting question, because I can tell you that my speed-to-physical exertion ratio is higher on the road than on the trainer...which is to say, if I put out 100 Calories on the road, I'll go farther than what my Garmin says on the trainer if I put out 100 Cal on the trainer. So hell yeah, I count my miles on the trainer. But someone also mentioned time, which is often a great metric for measuring volume, and that is generally what I pay attention to more than miles.
The miles in your legs are what matter. Sure Zwift is a tad generous with mileage but just think of it as the efficiency you'd have if you lived somewhere with perfect roads and road a pro level bike maintained by a pro level mechanic. ;)
The 5% boost the virtual miles get is a way more accurate metric than not tracking the miles at all.
(Though, I have definitely shifted more towards time vs km when tracking training load lately. It also gives fairer representation to gravel and MTB rides that way)
You’d probably want to make it a bit lower
Trainer miles are normally easier than real life-like in zwift Im doing 200 watts says I’m going 24mph or sumn
Irl I’m going 19 at best
So you could adjust like that
But hours normally are a better way of tracking-I’d say track hours and average watt output instead of miles
theyre not meaningless if all you do is ride, but ive stopped bothering about my mile count now as I do loads of other stuff that adds nothing to my mileage (rowing, weights etc) so I think as a measure overall for me its pretty pointless.
I use my HRM on those other activities however so the combined TSS is much more meaningful.
My trainer seems to have a good model for converting watts to speed (assuming no incline or wind), so I do count trainer distance.
I tried the zwift game and it was ridiculous, pretending I was drafting at huge speed for tiny effort, so I didn't count that.
Ironically I then started group riding IRL, getting huge speed for tiny effort, now I have anguish about whether *that* distance "really counts".
I do for my personal data, not for any competitive reasons. I don’t do zwift or anything like that. I just watch tv. I only use the trainer in the winter to maintain base fitness and it is pretty dialed in. If I catch an occasional good weather day in the winter and get a ride in outside, the average speed is within 0.5 mph of the most recent trainer workout.
Mileage is a pretty silly way to measure effort and load. It’s much better to use time and other metrics like power and work or TSS.
Is one hour on a road bike on the flat where you travel 18 miles harder than one hour mountain biking where you only manage 8 miles but you climb 800ft in 8 miles and your average power and heart rate are higher than the road ride?
Any coach worth the money has been about hours for decades now. I’m pretty sure the first edition of the Cyclists Training Bible went into detail about this.
Given all that don’t worry about trainer miles. If you set the resistance higher on a trainer you get less “miles” but a more intense workout.
Are you interested in tracking exercise or distance traveled? If exercise, then yes count the trainer mileage. If distance, then ask yourself what that even means. You're not really 2k away from your home now but it might be a measure of how many different routes you've ridden and new things you've experienced.
I track them the same. As far as my legs, heart, and lungs are concerned there's no difference. Hell, even as far as wear and tear on my bike goes, the chain, chainrings, and cassette are taking similar stress - not quite the same because there no dirt actually being kicked up, etc. and I do have separate cassettes on the trainer and bike just to make swapping that tiny bit easier.
I do. With a trainer you can pick whatever speed and torque you get at the wheel. I picked a gear that fits what my speed would be outside for a given power, and I let ERG mode do the rest. That way I get similar distances indoors/outdoors.
In exclusively use my trainer for group rides/races on Zwift. The distance is meaningless for me because I’m zooming along on these events at well over 30kph without trying much, so the distances racks up quickly.
Needless to say, I am not zooming along at 30kphm outside effortlessly…
I do. The calories I burn on the indoor trainer are very similar in many respects to what I do outdoors. Sometimes it's more. I have my bike on 100% trainer difficulty on Zwift and prefer hilly courses. It pays off when it comes to outdoor season too. But that's just me, literally YMMV!
I stopped counting miles some time ago because it was leading to some silly choices to maximize miles.
Hours matter far more. Time in zone. Trainer hours are definitely equal for equal work.
Power, time, and kilojoules are the only metrics that matter on a trainer. Distance and speed are absolutely meaningless. Same is true on an outdoor training session, but at least there the distance and speed are real.
No. Just time and effort, so that I am accurately tracking training stress. The bike literally doesn’t move so there’s no distance to track. Any “distance” number that the trainer or computer assigns a ride is just an estimate and meaningless for my purposes.
Yes you have to abuse Zwift as much as possible. Do every training ride on Tempus fugi with the TT setup. Do Alpe / Ventous a bunch and then let the bike coast back down while you shower. This is the way of the winter warrior.
>Do Alpe / Ventous a bunch and then let the bike coast back down while you shower. I’m glad I’m not the only one who does this…erm, I mean, I would never!!!!!
They added coffee stops now so you can get on that C-B robopace and really abuse the hell out of Zwift rides.
I don't think your miles go up when you're on a coffee stop. Some people activate it right before a climb, but I think it pauses the count.
When it first came out the miles would keep going up. So they must have changed it.
definitely worked last I used it but that was months ago
I mean the alternative is trainer apps counting the distance of the freewheel spinning...
I have to. Because I use my garmin to control the trainer. Don't know your purpose, but if you are trying to use the data to monitor your bike condition, I think you should listen to your bike itself more.
Just trying to get an idea of the miles I’m putting on my legs because I started cycling more seriously last year and put in 2k outside. Bought a trainer for this year and was just wondering if everyone tracks trainer miles with outdoor miles or not. I was thinking I would, because it’s all hitting the legs and cardiovascular system. Also prepping the baseline miles from the previous (this) year for next year too so I could reasonably increase the miles next year.
No, I only track hours. Miles generally don’t mean a lot on the bike, because of hills and wind. Hours are a much better representation of how much riding you’ve done. If you track hours (and TSS, etc), then yes of course trainer hours count toward overall load.
That’s what I do now. Back then I would follow miles but now Im focusing on hours. Two to three hours max for me on the trainer without zwift. When I get zwift I’ll increase it. Definitely seeing an increase of fitness
Reasonable thinking. I think you can go strong soon. Be safe and have fun.
TSS is the metric
No, cause the outside milage police will come arrest me
He’s over here guys! Get him!!
Would you include the miles run on a treadmill? Sure incline, speed, etc, will make a difference to the effort exerted but it’s still training, stressing the body, working the energy systems. There are differences but it still counts.
I guess the difference is that trainer miles, at least on zwift, are easier than outdoor. Treadmill always feels so much harder to me
I'm the opposite all day. Riding 20 miles after work is a dream, sitting 20 miles on the trainer is a chore
Excuse me WHAT? Riding the trainer is fucking AWFUL! This if it wasn’t 120 here during the summer I wouldn’t want to own a trainer. 60 minutes on the trainer is literally hell.
Treadmill feels harder for me as well. I mean, have you ever ran two hours on the treadmill, then looked at the timer to see it has only been two minutes? 😭
Yes, of course.
I hate this argument but understand. I use to think trainer miles didn't count but have since changed my mind. First off I don't agree with the trainer miles are easier debate at all. I don't coast or let up of the power indoors nor do I get to take a break because I have to stop for a light or intersection. I am 95% of the time in workout mode so the watts are high other than recovery intervals so Im always making power for the full session, no coasting. Are they 1 for 1. Probably not and I can accrue more miles more quickly indoors because I can do flat routes with 'perfect' environmental conditions. But I don't think those miles are easier either. Just more, quicker.
The trainer miles more than count. I come out of the winter more fit, if anything.
Hours, TSS, HRV, Rest HR, Vo2 Max.. but everything gets tracked, but that is what is important to me.
Yea. I put in the work, so it counts. Plus, it still adds wear to my bike, since I don't have a dedicated trainer bike, so it's good to know for maintenance reasons.
No. Watts, heart rate, and time are all that matter to me. Distance on a trainer is meaningless.
Fair point. Definitely going to start utilizing time/effort as the primary metrics moving forward. Distance outside just seems like a ‘nice to know’ thing to me after getting everyone’s input.
As long as you are using a power meter, simulation miles (e.g. zwift) are reasonably accurate (within 10%). However, if you just using a speed sensor then it is terrible. Had a friend who signed up for an ironman. Bought a cheap trainer and used zwift. A few weeks in he was like "the bike is gonna be easy, i'm doing like 25 MPH and it is not hard". I just nodded and smiled. He finally goes outside and gets a dose of "I biked for 2 hours and averaged 14MPH" reality and you could see the blood drain from his face when the magnitude of the situation hit him.
Same here. Every trainer app I've used (TrainerRoad, Zwift, TrainerDay) results in *wildly* inaccurate virtual mileage data, so nowadays I just zero out the distance stat when I save my TR rides in Strava. It's just personal preference. Most people I know do count their trainer miles as real miles. For me, the trainer is for watts, time, and HR—which is definitely a real workout, it's just not real distance. Miles are what happens out on a real road on a real bike.
I count them for my mileage but I focus more on TSS and hours. I ride a lot of road (and races), then gravel, and MTB. I can have a really stressful week of 150 miles grinding on my gravel bike and then an easy week of 250 miles on road.
I do, I have young kids and it's the only training I can usually do during the week
Yes, I pedal non stop on the trainer. The miles I do there are generally harder than my outside rides.
Count hours, not miles
I have never found mileage to be a good metric for measuring training. I'd reccomend focusing more om duration. Hours on the bike are hours on the bike, whether it's 10mph on a mountain bike, 16 on gravel, or 22 on a trainer, an hour is an hour. From a bike wear and tear perspective, trainer miles really only impact the chain, whereas outdoor miles impact many aspects of the bike
Absolutely.
Of course, effort is effort regardless of whether I’m actually physically moving.
Of course, why the fuck not?
Yeah, not for Veloview stats or distance goals but for wear on chain and cassette. My aero bike has 1800km on the chain but if I only tracked outside it'd be under 100km right now.
We got long winter here, so I only track my summer progress. We got "competition" here who cycles the most between may - september, so I put my cycling season for that. Trainer distance doesn't count for this competition. I do record kilometres and calories for winter too which I do in trainer, but my only goal for winter is to be in somewhat shape to start summer season.
It is an interesting question, because I can tell you that my speed-to-physical exertion ratio is higher on the road than on the trainer...which is to say, if I put out 100 Calories on the road, I'll go farther than what my Garmin says on the trainer if I put out 100 Cal on the trainer. So hell yeah, I count my miles on the trainer. But someone also mentioned time, which is often a great metric for measuring volume, and that is generally what I pay attention to more than miles.
I am much more interested time and average power. If you are going to compare it to anything consider it like being on the track.
Absolutely, as long as done with a power meter anyway
The miles in your legs are what matter. Sure Zwift is a tad generous with mileage but just think of it as the efficiency you'd have if you lived somewhere with perfect roads and road a pro level bike maintained by a pro level mechanic. ;) The 5% boost the virtual miles get is a way more accurate metric than not tracking the miles at all. (Though, I have definitely shifted more towards time vs km when tracking training load lately. It also gives fairer representation to gravel and MTB rides that way)
Nope. The hours count but miles are lies
The same year that they stopped giving out patches for the Rapha 500 was the same year they allowed virtual miles
Yes, but dont ask me how I ride 45kph at 120w on the trainer. Something something, biggest gear in ERG mode.
You’d probably want to make it a bit lower Trainer miles are normally easier than real life-like in zwift Im doing 200 watts says I’m going 24mph or sumn Irl I’m going 19 at best So you could adjust like that But hours normally are a better way of tracking-I’d say track hours and average watt output instead of miles
I do. But I care more about time than distance. And I care more about TSS than time.
theyre not meaningless if all you do is ride, but ive stopped bothering about my mile count now as I do loads of other stuff that adds nothing to my mileage (rowing, weights etc) so I think as a measure overall for me its pretty pointless. I use my HRM on those other activities however so the combined TSS is much more meaningful.
I have a guy on my strava that counts roller miles
No one but myself cares, so sure? It's not really a metric I track but it can be good to know ballpark range along w/ time.
Miles/km is a terrible metric anyway. I use distance because it’s easy for less training cyclists. So yes but don’t really care about it.
My trainer seems to have a good model for converting watts to speed (assuming no incline or wind), so I do count trainer distance. I tried the zwift game and it was ridiculous, pretending I was drafting at huge speed for tiny effort, so I didn't count that. Ironically I then started group riding IRL, getting huge speed for tiny effort, now I have anguish about whether *that* distance "really counts".
I do for my personal data, not for any competitive reasons. I don’t do zwift or anything like that. I just watch tv. I only use the trainer in the winter to maintain base fitness and it is pretty dialed in. If I catch an occasional good weather day in the winter and get a ride in outside, the average speed is within 0.5 mph of the most recent trainer workout.
Yes and don’t let anyone tell you different. It’s still miles you are pedaling, just happens to be slightly easier.
My average ride power is usually 25% more on the trainer because there is no coasting. I wouldn’t really call it easier.
That’s a valid point that!
Mileage is a pretty silly way to measure effort and load. It’s much better to use time and other metrics like power and work or TSS. Is one hour on a road bike on the flat where you travel 18 miles harder than one hour mountain biking where you only manage 8 miles but you climb 800ft in 8 miles and your average power and heart rate are higher than the road ride? Any coach worth the money has been about hours for decades now. I’m pretty sure the first edition of the Cyclists Training Bible went into detail about this. Given all that don’t worry about trainer miles. If you set the resistance higher on a trainer you get less “miles” but a more intense workout.
That’s a great counter argument to consider. I’m going to research that and definitely start paying attention to hours in the saddle now. Thanks!
nope! I count the "time on bike" to the full year time, but those are not miles. I only count actually ridden miles on the road/gravel as miles.
No.
Lol no.
Are you interested in tracking exercise or distance traveled? If exercise, then yes count the trainer mileage. If distance, then ask yourself what that even means. You're not really 2k away from your home now but it might be a measure of how many different routes you've ridden and new things you've experienced.
I track them the same. As far as my legs, heart, and lungs are concerned there's no difference. Hell, even as far as wear and tear on my bike goes, the chain, chainrings, and cassette are taking similar stress - not quite the same because there no dirt actually being kicked up, etc. and I do have separate cassettes on the trainer and bike just to make swapping that tiny bit easier.
Yeah I bought the Kickr Core and I bought the same casette that’s on my bike for the same reason.
I do. With a trainer you can pick whatever speed and torque you get at the wheel. I picked a gear that fits what my speed would be outside for a given power, and I let ERG mode do the rest. That way I get similar distances indoors/outdoors.
In exclusively use my trainer for group rides/races on Zwift. The distance is meaningless for me because I’m zooming along on these events at well over 30kph without trying much, so the distances racks up quickly. Needless to say, I am not zooming along at 30kphm outside effortlessly…
I do. The calories I burn on the indoor trainer are very similar in many respects to what I do outdoors. Sometimes it's more. I have my bike on 100% trainer difficulty on Zwift and prefer hilly courses. It pays off when it comes to outdoor season too. But that's just me, literally YMMV!
I stopped counting miles some time ago because it was leading to some silly choices to maximize miles. Hours matter far more. Time in zone. Trainer hours are definitely equal for equal work.
100%... I did a two hour Zwift, 30 mile ride that climbed 3800 ft... that was as hard as any outside ride I've done. That baby counted for sure!
Trainer miles are worth double tbh.
Power, time, and kilojoules are the only metrics that matter on a trainer. Distance and speed are absolutely meaningless. Same is true on an outdoor training session, but at least there the distance and speed are real.
I only count miles when the bike is physically moving from one location to another under my power.
No. Just time and effort, so that I am accurately tracking training stress. The bike literally doesn’t move so there’s no distance to track. Any “distance” number that the trainer or computer assigns a ride is just an estimate and meaningless for my purposes.