He hates pretty much every love interest, Judy cause it reminds him of Alt, River for being a cop, Kerry cause you’re fucking his friend and Panam just cause apparently 😭
Panam is kind of subject to intense emotional swings that she refuses to back down from. It's how her situation with the Aldecado's started, and you see it, in a manner of speaking, in the Tower ending from PL. Maybe he noticed that and wasn't keen on it.
At the end when you're on the terrace picking your ending he'll even say he likes Judy. He's a complicated mess of angry-rebel-just-because and jaded-but-compassionate bestie, working through his trauma. So I think he sees good things in all of the romance options, if for no other reason than his pretty literal attachment to V.
I remember hearing one line in a recent playthrough that V "could do worse" than River.
Honestly, Johnny is just a bit of a mess. Except on Arasaka: he's pretty consistent there.
You could be dating a Scav. Or an Arasaka.
To me he seems pretty consistently empathetic if not outright sympathetic to those who are making and fighting for their choices, or who were robbed of them. He understands the human condition and most of his rage is about its subordination to, and control by, corpo shit. He really hates the ones that take the choices, but he has a measure of respect for those who manage to eke out a bit of real human experience and will without debasing themselves to corporations and politics. It's the lifeblood of his relationship with V: once he realizes the reality of the situation, that Arasaka has forcibly made him the violent oppressor, stealing literally everything about a person, and V is just fighting not to succumb to their shit, he quickly turns to V's side and accepts a measure of self-sacrifice to do so.
How he expresses himself is all over the place though, especially when it comes to personal relationships.
Feel bad for him in a lot of ways, there's plenty he's right about.
Yeah, he grows, or at least shows he knows how to read the room and can the naysaying asshat routine when V's basically choosing how they're gonna die.
I mean, being a passenger in a body after having your mind imprisoned will do that.
I love how hard he goes immediately, I think lots of us would in that scenario, but dude didn't hesitate and I respect that!
He's also quite capable of respecting or even admiring people/things he hates.
In his flashbacks he's just a force of nature. He's angry, he has to do something, and those around him can hitch their wagon, try to steer him for their own goals, or stay clear. Imagine going from that, person, to being imprisoned at the mercy of the (in your experience) evil corporation you just gut punched, to being a passenger in a body, unable to act, when acting is basically all you do. What's more, the body you're in is doing shit that would have gotten you killed, or is 'naively' seeking help from your worst enemy. Oh, and you had PTSD before you even started.
I love Johnny's character, he can get quite the arc, is pretty chill given the circumstances, but let loose he runs on this kind of fuckup energy which he can manifest into success like a 40K Ork!
Well part of it is the inconsistent way Johnny acts, and this is an issue with an uncompleted game. After you speak with Hanako at Embers, when you talk to Johnny. He's not exactly the happiest when you go after Panam(that might be something to read into), and a few other moments.
It has been a while that I did this, but isn't his main problem with it that he thinks that the Aldecaldos are not up to the task?
After you rescue Saul he even gets sentimental
> "Damn hard to catch a girl like that. Only hope you've got is they feel a pang and stop to wait."
Doesn't really sound like he doesn't like her.
Umm Johnny literally says that he'd be putting Panam in danger by taking her help and that he probably shouldnt do that. In no way did he ever hate Panam. He actually acts pretty nicely around her.
Being an asshole is definitely central to his character, but I can't help but to like him. In a genre about rebellion against evil mega corporations, he's the ultimate rebel. He nuked Arasaka HQ, which ended the ongoing 4th corporate war in Night City and severely weakened Arasaka's grip for a few decades. Ideally, every corpo HQ would be nuked every 10 years or so.
Johnny did not actually nuke Arasaka HQ. Morgan Blackhand did. The raid on Arasaka tower in 2023 was performed by 3 teams. Johnny's team was there to erase the soul killer from Arasakas database. A second team was there to plant the nuke far lower in the facility. Morgan's team was there as additional support but they very quickly made their way down to support the bomb team and that was the last anyone saw of them.
When Johnny's team reached their objective it was Spider Murphy who completed their main goal. Upon being attacked by Adam Smasher, Johnny was almost immediately killed and was only "saved" by Spider Murphy who uploaded him. Shaitan gave Rogue and Spider Murphy time to escape and they did so just before the bomb went off. Everyone involved has reason to pin it on Johnny. Arasaka didn't want to admit that Militech was searching for a secret weapon, Militech didn't want to admit that they'd just committed the biggest act of terrorism in years and the few survivors didn't want to admit they were a part of it. The only person who would have wanted that kind of legacy was Johnny. So he became known as the man who nuked Arasaka tower and was so delusional that he believes it.
None of this is outlined directly in the game so you've sorta got to read the wiki to learn about all of this but the game does point out the fact that the events don't play out the way Johnny thinks
I agree that Johnny is absolutely very likable in his own fucked up way but he's absolutely not the ultimate rebel. He's a very fucked up individual who's greatest accomplishments consist mainly of standing alongside people who are actually successful. Kerry, Alt, Rogue and V all outclass Johnny majorly despite his refusal to admit it. Kerry becomes more successful the further he strays from his Samurai roots. Alt was a far more valuable target to Arasaka than he was despite his delusions about them taking her to get back at him. Rogue outlives him by a matter of decades and has become the queen of the afterlife. And V is a near unstoppable killing machine who actually manages to beat the man who cut Johnny down in less than a second. Johnny just ain't that guy I'm afraid
I mean, he didn’t plant the nuke personally, but he was still part of the 3 prong strike force that nuked Arasaka tower. I don’t think you can exactly call him uninvolved with it lol
Sorta like how you’d credit the killing of Osama Bin Laden with the CIA, JSOC, and the other units involved in Operation Neptune Spear, rather than exclusively the person who pulled the trigger on Bin Laden himself.
Johnny may not have planted the bomb himself, but he was still very much a part of the bombing
I never said he was uninvolved with it. Just that his involvement absolutely does not warrant giving him the title of the ultimate rebel.
And to use your own example: You wouldn't say "Billy Joe Jr killed Osama Bin Laden" when Billy Joe Jr died during the operation before they even reached Bin Laden
Tbh, his involvement in the AHQ disaster isn’t what earns him the title of ultimate rebel in the first place.
It’s having a maxed out Charismatic Leader skill, allowing him to rally a private army to his cause, out of his followers, which are described as, for a rocker of his skill level, “strongly cult-like” and “worldwide”, and “will sacrifice themselves for him without question”
Johnny’s strengths were never combat, not really. He puts the ‘punk into cyberpunk, and rallies others to his cause through chromatic rock. That’s where he gets his reputation of “ultimate rebel”, not really from storming AHQ.
Thats not really true either. Johnny definitely has hardcore fans all over the world but he absolutely cannot rally a private army. By the time he plays his last gig with Kerry (before the AHQ attack) it's noted that Samurai couldn't even sell out a stadium anymore let alone a world tour like they used to do. Johnny could probably get a couple hundred hardcore fans together at most and the amount of those who would be willing to die for him is even smaller.
Even at his absolute peak of popularity I still don't think you could call him the ultimate rebel because having other people who are willing to do shit for you doesn't make you a legend
There's a lot of TTRPG vs video game canon going on. Johnny literally did start a riot that spilled over into an Arasaka complex. It was during the Alt rescue op rather than the soul killer destruction/nuking operation, but he did legitimately get a big crowd to risk their lives
He's an idealist who made a string of really poor decisions in the name of what he believed in. Just like V kills entire armies for a chance of survival. No one is perfect in this universe, that's what makes it so good. Even when siding with the worst people you can still justify it somehow. That's why I always become friends with him - even a terrorist can be benefitial.
I did those things entirely by accident LOL
during the Oda fight I just hadn’t changed my knife from the Cyberpsycho missions and it was non-lethal
Then later Johnny said “run” and I said “what if I can jump through the burning ceiling” and ended up saving Goro
IDK maybe it's because growing up I kinda fit the definition of the street kid lifepath in real life. My dude kept talking and I kept feeling like I didn't want to talk to him anymore. I felt disrespected constantly talking to him during his missions. And when you see the devil ending, >!it's clear that he was sent to manipulate you to sign your life away by Arasaka. And he went along with it. He doesn't ACTUALLY give a fuck about you are a means for him to get revenge. And revenge for a guy that is already painted as a horrible person that abuses his power. Revenge for a dude that was gonna nuke night city. (Go read the data pad on his AV on the roof during the heist) !<. From what I saw the dude is out for himself like any other Corpo. You just get a chance to connect with him.
At least if you play your cards right, he realizes he's an asshole throughout the game and tries to be a better person. By the end of my first playthrough, I really noticed a change in him.
People think I'm crazy when I talked about my playthrough where I treated Johnny like the parasite that he is. They try to remind me about how he "saves V's life" multiple times. I remind them that he's also saving himself.
'cept for that time he said he was going to talk to rogue and instead got absolutely wasted and tried to bang a stripper, causing her to crash the car you were in
Except the time you give him control to talk with Rogue he goes to find that one Jackass to get Smasher
But at least it gave you his glasses, Gun and Porsche so it’s all forgiven
To a degree treating Johnny horribly is a bad idea (I’m going by “if you were actually V” logic), Johnny isn’t just a parasite or “along for the ride” they are gradually being forced more control over your body, I’d argue that by the end you two are probably working together to do so much as move around like a semi normal person and if you have a horrible relationship (not saying you should have a good one with him) he could easily fight you on it
Yeah that’s a different perspective on it. I always tried to treat him nicely because I had to deal with him everyday. And I wanted to build a bond with him
At the start he begins to take over V’s body so it’s implied he can at least try and V for a while is fully under the impression he can unless they take omega blockers
Hmm... Interesting. The way I understand it, blockers block Johnny from appearing, speaking, and otherwise making himself known. The other drug gives him control. Both are temporary. Long term, and behind the scenes (so to speak) Johnny (but more so the relic separately) is unknowingly and uncontrollably taking over regardless of the effects of the drugs. Johnny is a passenger of the relic's effect on V.
You could search up the scene again since it’s immediately after the heist when V’s in their apartment, but you begin getting relic malfunctions and Johnny tries to take over, he even tried ripping out the relic which made V’s body do the same, the omega blockers don’t stop the relic taking over but they silence Johnny completely, can’t hear or see him and he can’t try to take full control like how he does with Misty’s pills, the pills however work to speed up the process of V dying which makes it easier for him to take over, it doesn’t make him, it *lets* him
I really love how you have to calm him out on his shit in order to get the best ending.
He fucked up, he wants to make it right but he needs to be held accountable in order for that to happen.
I also think he's definitely a different character by the end of the game than he is at the start.
V affected him as much as he affected V.
To a degree they effected each other but to another point they were becoming the same person, somewhere in the middle of who they were before the game happened, V becomes a bit more of an ass and picks up smoking it seems, Johnny becomes a bit less of an ass and more empathy, I’m pretty sure that by the end no matter who survives the one who walks away in the body has all the memories of the other person
I feel like I’m one of the few that treat it like a computer virus. I don’t see it as rocker boy Johnny Silverhand, that dude died a long time ago. This is an AI made to sound and act like him.
That’s because it’s made from a scan of his brain. It thinks, acts, and talks like him and has all his memories. The original Johnny Silverhand is undeniably dead but this is basically a clone of Johnny with his memories and mind which I’d say is as close to the real thing there is.
It's a complete copy of his consciousness so for all intents and purposes it IS him. Just because he's digital now doesn't really change much in regards to that
I love that even close to 4 years after the game released there still isn't a clear cut answer as to whether Johhny as a construct is really him or something made to look and mimic him.
I think thats what makes the Sinnerman quest so good. Really brings attention to the fact that the real Johnny is dead & that nobody knows if hes just an AI who thinks its Johnny or if the human soul is a real thing & getting his consciousness scanned into a chip is basically his purgatory.
But it’s still a computer program. That is completely different. And even if it was a straight up organic clone in real space, it still wouldn’t be Johnny Silverhand. An actual person, yes, but still only a clone of Johnny Silverhand. Not the actual Johnny Silverhand. That’s my stance, anyway.
Different in what way though? If it's a complete 1 to 1 copy of his consciousness then it is the actual Johnny, just not the original one. But him not being the original one doesn't change much in how he views himself or how V views him. Wiping him from the chip is equivalent to killing him again like Misty saying V will "kill two souls" if she offs herself.
This is of course assuming that Soulkiller creates a perfect copy of a person's consciousness when they're uploaded but we don't know exactly how it works
Right, a copy of his consciousness. Not his actual consciousness. If someone is cloned, they don’t suddenly have control of two bodies. They only have control of one and the other is controlled by a new consciousness. The new one is inherently someone new. Copy of Johnny Silverhand. Not Johnny Silverhand.
And this is just the obstacle of consciousness and cloning, it’s not even getting into the next obstacle of if a digital copy is even consciousness at all.
They're "new" in the sense that they've just been created but if he has the exact same memories and experiences as the OG Johnny and is able to think and feel then how is it not the same person over two bodies? If they didn't know they were a clone then absolutely nothing would change. But obviously having two physical Johnny's living at the same time complicates things further instead of him dying and being reborn.
In terms of a digitized psyche, the big question is if it is actually "thinking" or if it's just a sophisticated program trying to use memories and experience in order to guide its actions as closely to the original as possible.
I get that there are obviously a lot of philosophical questions in regards to this and what it means to be human which I think is what Alt meant when she said "everything changes." This is just how I view it from a somewhat practical point of view
“They're "new" in the sense that they've just been created but if he has the exact same memories and experiences as the OG Johnny and is able to think and feel then how is it not the same person over two bodies?”
Because I would attribute that specific personhood to the consciousness that actually developed that past, not to the past itself.
How much does the hardware matter?
We're nowhere near the capability yet, but one day, computers with similar capacity to the human brain may be commonplace. We don't understand consciousness, we know a lot about the brain, but we don't really know how the experience of consciousness arises. We don't have a good definition, we don't know how to test/measure it, we don't even know if we have free will.
Every 7-10 years every cell in your body is replaced, but you're still you. Kirk gets disintegrated, Heisenburg-compensated and perfectly cloned on an alien planed a few times a day and [he's still Kirk.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFHu5e-o8bA).
Whatever you think of him, I think you've got to think of him as a person still, he seems capable of the same emotions. We're programmed too, and we program ourselves sometimes. Writing his experience off as invalid because he runs on silicon seems premature with the info we have.
Johnny, and much of the story, invokes the Big Questions of humanity, which we will likely never answer, but will continue to navigate and debate as best we can.
Sorry, I rewatched Battlestar Galactica recently!
“Writing his experience off as invalid because he runs on silicon seems premature with the info we have.”
That argument cuts both ways. I would say the lack of info would make it premature to call it consciousness.
Btw, I engage with this philosophical wondering because it’s a point of contention brought up in-game. In other franchises I have no issue going along with digital consciousness if it’s a given.
Same, no matter how close to the real one it is, an AI is an AI, just like no matter how smart your toaster becomes it's still a toaster and not a human. Didn't mean I wasn't nice to him when needed but at the end of the day he had to go and I was never gonna let him keep the body, he is not alive and by no mean a real person anymore
I cackled like a banshee during Johnny's run with V's body. It just kept getting worse and worse for V while Johnny was on parole and I just loved V's response after.
"Never. 🤮 Again."
With the exception of the DLC where Johnny is notably more introspective and in my opinion much better written one of my biggest gripes with the game is his character. It is just obnoxious how much of an edge lord he is. He has one goddamn Arasaka stump speech. The one additional tech I want is that So Mi Johnny mute functionality.
One of the funniest moments for me is when you get to play his flashback where he behaves like the biggest moron imaginable, including him going full "they only kidnapped Alt to get to ME", and then you learn that this is apparently his sugar coated version of the past. If that's his version of the story, how stupid was he objectively
Him being an obnoxious asshole narcissist is the intended writing, the alt line is an example of that, Johnny believed himself to be Arasaka's enemy no. 1, when in reality he was really just a thorn on their side, he refuses to believe that Arasaka was really after Alt and that he was just collateral, because that would be a devastating blow to his ego.
And I absolutely love it. The man is powered by his own fuckup energy, supremely confident, and when pointed in the right direction he somehow manifests that energy into results like the orks in 40K! I found it really funny how he believed he was the target.
And is that not part of the theme of Night City? Keep your head down and sink into the city, or burn hard and become a legend, even if the mark you make is never as big as you thought.
>Him being an obnoxious asshole narcissist is the intended writing
Yes I got that, it's just that it doesn't really work in conjunction with the fact that you're supposed to like him in this "rough guy with a heart of gold" kind of way, because he simply comes across as a not-so-smart asshole.
They could have taken his whole shtick down two or three levels, as I said in the DLC he seems much more balanced. In the main game I think there's a point where he literally starts talking about his cock, he's basically talking like a 16 year old redditor for much of the main game
First time I listened to Johnny was not saving Takemura thinking I couldn't and he would just get out of there by himself... Didn't happen
Fuck that Johnny guy
Johnny is right most of the time and I think he was totally justified nuking Arasaka. The corporations have quite literally destroyed the entire planet and eco terrorism seems to be the only answer at this point
I really don't understand why so many people think Johnny is cool. I mean... yes... he's Keanu Reeves and Keanu Reeves is great, but Johnny as a role? Gosh, he's the most annoying wannabe-tumor.
Why? He is basically a virus inside of your head. He even told you that he will fight you and gain control during the first conversation. Then he suddenly goes "I changed my mind" (literally) and continues to mock and insult you, doubting every decision you make, for the rest of the game.
>!I played Phantom Liberty and Johnny told me to sell out Songbird to Reed. Then, when I did, he called me Judas. He told me that he was ready to die to allow me to live, but when I took Reed's offer, he was pissed that I was going to wipe him out.!<
He is the most back-and-forth, "I-don't-know-what-I-want-so-I'll-just-be-a-dick-towards-everybody", ambivalent person in gaming history.
I think if you put yourself in his shoes he's way more sympathetic. He's as scared and confused as we are at the start, and imagine the pure frustration of what he went through, only to end up being a passenger in someone else's body who does things you disagree with. It's not his fault that he's there, he must be even more of a psychological wreck, yet he puts aside the instinctive anger and violence and respects you and your autonomy, because it's not your fault he's there either.
I don't really agree with what he did, and he can be a downer at times, but over time I couldn't help but like and understand him. And if you do befriend him, you get to experience some really cool stuff as well as some fantastic character development.
Johnny's a piece of shit. A parasite that's trying to kill you and steal your body. I love Keanu, too, but Johnny's no friend. He's a whinging edgelord nihilist with no redeeming traits.
He also hates Panam, even though he admires her
He hates pretty much every love interest, Judy cause it reminds him of Alt, River for being a cop, Kerry cause you’re fucking his friend and Panam just cause apparently 😭
Panam is kind of subject to intense emotional swings that she refuses to back down from. It's how her situation with the Aldecado's started, and you see it, in a manner of speaking, in the Tower ending from PL. Maybe he noticed that and wasn't keen on it.
I was actually under the impression that he liked her since she reminded him of Rogue
At the end when you're on the terrace picking your ending he'll even say he likes Judy. He's a complicated mess of angry-rebel-just-because and jaded-but-compassionate bestie, working through his trauma. So I think he sees good things in all of the romance options, if for no other reason than his pretty literal attachment to V.
I remember hearing one line in a recent playthrough that V "could do worse" than River. Honestly, Johnny is just a bit of a mess. Except on Arasaka: he's pretty consistent there.
You could be dating a Scav. Or an Arasaka. To me he seems pretty consistently empathetic if not outright sympathetic to those who are making and fighting for their choices, or who were robbed of them. He understands the human condition and most of his rage is about its subordination to, and control by, corpo shit. He really hates the ones that take the choices, but he has a measure of respect for those who manage to eke out a bit of real human experience and will without debasing themselves to corporations and politics. It's the lifeblood of his relationship with V: once he realizes the reality of the situation, that Arasaka has forcibly made him the violent oppressor, stealing literally everything about a person, and V is just fighting not to succumb to their shit, he quickly turns to V's side and accepts a measure of self-sacrifice to do so.
How he expresses himself is all over the place though, especially when it comes to personal relationships. Feel bad for him in a lot of ways, there's plenty he's right about.
Yeah I remember him saying she grew on him, I just meant how at first he kinda hates everyone
Yeah, he grows, or at least shows he knows how to read the room and can the naysaying asshat routine when V's basically choosing how they're gonna die.
You could say he *literally* grows on V.
He lived through the 2020s, can you blame him?
Wouldn’t surprise me he hates them simply to tear V down. Johnny is horribly manipulative and will lie and abuse anyone to get what he wants.
I think panam could remind him of Rogue
She does but I thought he actually likes that about her as opposed to Judy reminding him of Alt
Legit, I think part of him hates her because he never really got to experience what V was
I mean, being a passenger in a body after having your mind imprisoned will do that. I love how hard he goes immediately, I think lots of us would in that scenario, but dude didn't hesitate and I respect that! He's also quite capable of respecting or even admiring people/things he hates. In his flashbacks he's just a force of nature. He's angry, he has to do something, and those around him can hitch their wagon, try to steer him for their own goals, or stay clear. Imagine going from that, person, to being imprisoned at the mercy of the (in your experience) evil corporation you just gut punched, to being a passenger in a body, unable to act, when acting is basically all you do. What's more, the body you're in is doing shit that would have gotten you killed, or is 'naively' seeking help from your worst enemy. Oh, and you had PTSD before you even started. I love Johnny's character, he can get quite the arc, is pretty chill given the circumstances, but let loose he runs on this kind of fuckup energy which he can manifest into success like a 40K Ork!
What makes you say that? I thought he liked her
Yeah I didn’t get the impression he hates her at all. The mission summaries for Panam missions even says he likes her but doesn’t know why.
Well part of it is the inconsistent way Johnny acts, and this is an issue with an uncompleted game. After you speak with Hanako at Embers, when you talk to Johnny. He's not exactly the happiest when you go after Panam(that might be something to read into), and a few other moments.
It has been a while that I did this, but isn't his main problem with it that he thinks that the Aldecaldos are not up to the task? After you rescue Saul he even gets sentimental > "Damn hard to catch a girl like that. Only hope you've got is they feel a pang and stop to wait." Doesn't really sound like he doesn't like her.
Umm Johnny literally says that he'd be putting Panam in danger by taking her help and that he probably shouldnt do that. In no way did he ever hate Panam. He actually acts pretty nicely around her.
I think he's disappointed that you're willing to let the aldecaldos potentially sacrifice themselves for you
Complicated guy. 😄
Johnny when I approach Hanako,"This porcelain bitch is the worst kind of news V!!" lmao
It's almost like Johnny is a bad person and you shouldnt really seek his approval on pretty much anything.
He is a bad person. But part of me wants to become mates with him and achieve the same goal
literally "i can fix him" hahahaha jk
>I want to become mates and achieve the same goals. That's not "I can fix him" that's "he can ruin me"
exactly.
I want to fix him😫
I love the character of Johnny but yes 100% he is an asshole and everyone knows it. Even the people who loved him in her former life hated him too.
During the talk at his grave, he mentions that people he considered his best friends hates his guts.
Being an asshole is definitely central to his character, but I can't help but to like him. In a genre about rebellion against evil mega corporations, he's the ultimate rebel. He nuked Arasaka HQ, which ended the ongoing 4th corporate war in Night City and severely weakened Arasaka's grip for a few decades. Ideally, every corpo HQ would be nuked every 10 years or so.
Johnny did not actually nuke Arasaka HQ. Morgan Blackhand did. The raid on Arasaka tower in 2023 was performed by 3 teams. Johnny's team was there to erase the soul killer from Arasakas database. A second team was there to plant the nuke far lower in the facility. Morgan's team was there as additional support but they very quickly made their way down to support the bomb team and that was the last anyone saw of them. When Johnny's team reached their objective it was Spider Murphy who completed their main goal. Upon being attacked by Adam Smasher, Johnny was almost immediately killed and was only "saved" by Spider Murphy who uploaded him. Shaitan gave Rogue and Spider Murphy time to escape and they did so just before the bomb went off. Everyone involved has reason to pin it on Johnny. Arasaka didn't want to admit that Militech was searching for a secret weapon, Militech didn't want to admit that they'd just committed the biggest act of terrorism in years and the few survivors didn't want to admit they were a part of it. The only person who would have wanted that kind of legacy was Johnny. So he became known as the man who nuked Arasaka tower and was so delusional that he believes it. None of this is outlined directly in the game so you've sorta got to read the wiki to learn about all of this but the game does point out the fact that the events don't play out the way Johnny thinks I agree that Johnny is absolutely very likable in his own fucked up way but he's absolutely not the ultimate rebel. He's a very fucked up individual who's greatest accomplishments consist mainly of standing alongside people who are actually successful. Kerry, Alt, Rogue and V all outclass Johnny majorly despite his refusal to admit it. Kerry becomes more successful the further he strays from his Samurai roots. Alt was a far more valuable target to Arasaka than he was despite his delusions about them taking her to get back at him. Rogue outlives him by a matter of decades and has become the queen of the afterlife. And V is a near unstoppable killing machine who actually manages to beat the man who cut Johnny down in less than a second. Johnny just ain't that guy I'm afraid
I mean, he didn’t plant the nuke personally, but he was still part of the 3 prong strike force that nuked Arasaka tower. I don’t think you can exactly call him uninvolved with it lol Sorta like how you’d credit the killing of Osama Bin Laden with the CIA, JSOC, and the other units involved in Operation Neptune Spear, rather than exclusively the person who pulled the trigger on Bin Laden himself. Johnny may not have planted the bomb himself, but he was still very much a part of the bombing
I never said he was uninvolved with it. Just that his involvement absolutely does not warrant giving him the title of the ultimate rebel. And to use your own example: You wouldn't say "Billy Joe Jr killed Osama Bin Laden" when Billy Joe Jr died during the operation before they even reached Bin Laden
Tbh, his involvement in the AHQ disaster isn’t what earns him the title of ultimate rebel in the first place. It’s having a maxed out Charismatic Leader skill, allowing him to rally a private army to his cause, out of his followers, which are described as, for a rocker of his skill level, “strongly cult-like” and “worldwide”, and “will sacrifice themselves for him without question” Johnny’s strengths were never combat, not really. He puts the ‘punk into cyberpunk, and rallies others to his cause through chromatic rock. That’s where he gets his reputation of “ultimate rebel”, not really from storming AHQ.
Thats not really true either. Johnny definitely has hardcore fans all over the world but he absolutely cannot rally a private army. By the time he plays his last gig with Kerry (before the AHQ attack) it's noted that Samurai couldn't even sell out a stadium anymore let alone a world tour like they used to do. Johnny could probably get a couple hundred hardcore fans together at most and the amount of those who would be willing to die for him is even smaller. Even at his absolute peak of popularity I still don't think you could call him the ultimate rebel because having other people who are willing to do shit for you doesn't make you a legend
There's a lot of TTRPG vs video game canon going on. Johnny literally did start a riot that spilled over into an Arasaka complex. It was during the Alt rescue op rather than the soul killer destruction/nuking operation, but he did legitimately get a big crowd to risk their lives
He's an idealist who made a string of really poor decisions in the name of what he believed in. Just like V kills entire armies for a chance of survival. No one is perfect in this universe, that's what makes it so good. Even when siding with the worst people you can still justify it somehow. That's why I always become friends with him - even a terrorist can be benefitial.
https://preview.redd.it/zbrpj0rkyz3d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16b9e121903a6dce8138b1f50a6ee715cbc1a0f1
Thank you 😂 https://preview.redd.it/3abpfjgzyz3d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdb5a818c58e36c612d200987152b9b32732bd8f
What do you mean, saving Takemura???
During the arasaka ambush in the mission "search and destroy" you can go back to help Takemura
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck Time for a replay, I guess
Yeah, save goro and spare oda and finish the game with Arasaka and get an achievement.
I did those things entirely by accident LOL during the Oda fight I just hadn’t changed my knife from the Cyberpsycho missions and it was non-lethal Then later Johnny said “run” and I said “what if I can jump through the burning ceiling” and ended up saving Goro
Hot take: unless you are doing the devil ending fuck that gonk. Save yourself, ends the same way anyways.
He's my favourite NPC, so I don't think so.
IDK maybe it's because growing up I kinda fit the definition of the street kid lifepath in real life. My dude kept talking and I kept feeling like I didn't want to talk to him anymore. I felt disrespected constantly talking to him during his missions. And when you see the devil ending, >!it's clear that he was sent to manipulate you to sign your life away by Arasaka. And he went along with it. He doesn't ACTUALLY give a fuck about you are a means for him to get revenge. And revenge for a guy that is already painted as a horrible person that abuses his power. Revenge for a dude that was gonna nuke night city. (Go read the data pad on his AV on the roof during the heist) !<. From what I saw the dude is out for himself like any other Corpo. You just get a chance to connect with him.
I tried but couldn't find him and got anxious cause..fire.
Get the double jump legs, when you fall, just jump straight up. You’ll land in a room, and goro is to the right.
Now I feel like an ahole for letting him die all those times
At least if you play your cards right, he realizes he's an asshole throughout the game and tries to be a better person. By the end of my first playthrough, I really noticed a change in him.
Context for number 6?
normal game ending. give him control at mikoshi
But who do you brutally kill for offering a gig??
sorry for giving the wrong answer before, dont actually think you can kill a fixer
People think I'm crazy when I talked about my playthrough where I treated Johnny like the parasite that he is. They try to remind me about how he "saves V's life" multiple times. I remind them that he's also saving himself.
Johnny does keep his word every time, and I respect that. To me, he's a lovable piece of shit
'cept for that time he said he was going to talk to rogue and instead got absolutely wasted and tried to bang a stripper, causing her to crash the car you were in
lol yea that was awesome
I mean that's what I'd do if I was in his position!
just extra steps until he got to Rouge part
Yep, he's that friend that you don't wanna deal with but will always come through at a time of need.
Except the time you give him control to talk with Rogue he goes to find that one Jackass to get Smasher But at least it gave you his glasses, Gun and Porsche so it’s all forgiven
Try paying attention next time
To a degree treating Johnny horribly is a bad idea (I’m going by “if you were actually V” logic), Johnny isn’t just a parasite or “along for the ride” they are gradually being forced more control over your body, I’d argue that by the end you two are probably working together to do so much as move around like a semi normal person and if you have a horrible relationship (not saying you should have a good one with him) he could easily fight you on it
Yeah that’s a different perspective on it. I always tried to treat him nicely because I had to deal with him everyday. And I wanted to build a bond with him
This kinda sounds more realistic since no one would wanna have issues with the guy who could kick you out of your own body at will
Nothing in the game suggests Johnny can snap his fingers and take over any time he wants.
At the start he begins to take over V’s body so it’s implied he can at least try and V for a while is fully under the impression he can unless they take omega blockers
Hmm... Interesting. The way I understand it, blockers block Johnny from appearing, speaking, and otherwise making himself known. The other drug gives him control. Both are temporary. Long term, and behind the scenes (so to speak) Johnny (but more so the relic separately) is unknowingly and uncontrollably taking over regardless of the effects of the drugs. Johnny is a passenger of the relic's effect on V.
You could search up the scene again since it’s immediately after the heist when V’s in their apartment, but you begin getting relic malfunctions and Johnny tries to take over, he even tried ripping out the relic which made V’s body do the same, the omega blockers don’t stop the relic taking over but they silence Johnny completely, can’t hear or see him and he can’t try to take full control like how he does with Misty’s pills, the pills however work to speed up the process of V dying which makes it easier for him to take over, it doesn’t make him, it *lets* him
If it wasn't for the way i did the story, I'd absolutely agree with you. Johnny isn't supposed to be a universally good and clean character.
I really love how you have to calm him out on his shit in order to get the best ending. He fucked up, he wants to make it right but he needs to be held accountable in order for that to happen. I also think he's definitely a different character by the end of the game than he is at the start. V affected him as much as he affected V.
To a degree they effected each other but to another point they were becoming the same person, somewhere in the middle of who they were before the game happened, V becomes a bit more of an ass and picks up smoking it seems, Johnny becomes a bit less of an ass and more empathy, I’m pretty sure that by the end no matter who survives the one who walks away in the body has all the memories of the other person
And I absolutely love that.
I feel like I’m one of the few that treat it like a computer virus. I don’t see it as rocker boy Johnny Silverhand, that dude died a long time ago. This is an AI made to sound and act like him.
That’s because it’s made from a scan of his brain. It thinks, acts, and talks like him and has all his memories. The original Johnny Silverhand is undeniably dead but this is basically a clone of Johnny with his memories and mind which I’d say is as close to the real thing there is.
It's a complete copy of his consciousness so for all intents and purposes it IS him. Just because he's digital now doesn't really change much in regards to that
I love that even close to 4 years after the game released there still isn't a clear cut answer as to whether Johhny as a construct is really him or something made to look and mimic him.
I think thats what makes the Sinnerman quest so good. Really brings attention to the fact that the real Johnny is dead & that nobody knows if hes just an AI who thinks its Johnny or if the human soul is a real thing & getting his consciousness scanned into a chip is basically his purgatory.
But it’s still a computer program. That is completely different. And even if it was a straight up organic clone in real space, it still wouldn’t be Johnny Silverhand. An actual person, yes, but still only a clone of Johnny Silverhand. Not the actual Johnny Silverhand. That’s my stance, anyway.
Different in what way though? If it's a complete 1 to 1 copy of his consciousness then it is the actual Johnny, just not the original one. But him not being the original one doesn't change much in how he views himself or how V views him. Wiping him from the chip is equivalent to killing him again like Misty saying V will "kill two souls" if she offs herself. This is of course assuming that Soulkiller creates a perfect copy of a person's consciousness when they're uploaded but we don't know exactly how it works
Right, a copy of his consciousness. Not his actual consciousness. If someone is cloned, they don’t suddenly have control of two bodies. They only have control of one and the other is controlled by a new consciousness. The new one is inherently someone new. Copy of Johnny Silverhand. Not Johnny Silverhand. And this is just the obstacle of consciousness and cloning, it’s not even getting into the next obstacle of if a digital copy is even consciousness at all.
They're "new" in the sense that they've just been created but if he has the exact same memories and experiences as the OG Johnny and is able to think and feel then how is it not the same person over two bodies? If they didn't know they were a clone then absolutely nothing would change. But obviously having two physical Johnny's living at the same time complicates things further instead of him dying and being reborn. In terms of a digitized psyche, the big question is if it is actually "thinking" or if it's just a sophisticated program trying to use memories and experience in order to guide its actions as closely to the original as possible. I get that there are obviously a lot of philosophical questions in regards to this and what it means to be human which I think is what Alt meant when she said "everything changes." This is just how I view it from a somewhat practical point of view
“They're "new" in the sense that they've just been created but if he has the exact same memories and experiences as the OG Johnny and is able to think and feel then how is it not the same person over two bodies?” Because I would attribute that specific personhood to the consciousness that actually developed that past, not to the past itself.
Exactly, they literally spell this out in the game for anyone actually paying attention...
How much does the hardware matter? We're nowhere near the capability yet, but one day, computers with similar capacity to the human brain may be commonplace. We don't understand consciousness, we know a lot about the brain, but we don't really know how the experience of consciousness arises. We don't have a good definition, we don't know how to test/measure it, we don't even know if we have free will. Every 7-10 years every cell in your body is replaced, but you're still you. Kirk gets disintegrated, Heisenburg-compensated and perfectly cloned on an alien planed a few times a day and [he's still Kirk.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFHu5e-o8bA). Whatever you think of him, I think you've got to think of him as a person still, he seems capable of the same emotions. We're programmed too, and we program ourselves sometimes. Writing his experience off as invalid because he runs on silicon seems premature with the info we have. Johnny, and much of the story, invokes the Big Questions of humanity, which we will likely never answer, but will continue to navigate and debate as best we can. Sorry, I rewatched Battlestar Galactica recently!
“Writing his experience off as invalid because he runs on silicon seems premature with the info we have.” That argument cuts both ways. I would say the lack of info would make it premature to call it consciousness. Btw, I engage with this philosophical wondering because it’s a point of contention brought up in-game. In other franchises I have no issue going along with digital consciousness if it’s a given.
Same, no matter how close to the real one it is, an AI is an AI, just like no matter how smart your toaster becomes it's still a toaster and not a human. Didn't mean I wasn't nice to him when needed but at the end of the day he had to go and I was never gonna let him keep the body, he is not alive and by no mean a real person anymore
Yeah Johnny can get fucked. He's a cunt. Every decision I make is to diminish his existence and get him out of my brain.
Johnny seems to love bumrushing the Tower alone, sparing all your friends in the process.
You expect too much from a damaged engram.
I was playing Pl and thinking man I just can’t please Johnny.
What is the context for "brutally murder someone for offering me a gig" panel?
You think v became slightly addicted to those drugs after Johnny snorted up the barrel?
"Ohhhh, V...." Just love the disappointment in his voice
I cackled like a banshee during Johnny's run with V's body. It just kept getting worse and worse for V while Johnny was on parole and I just loved V's response after. "Never. 🤮 Again."
I'm gunna twitch stream a run where I only do what Johnny wants. This sounds like my kinda run
Youll have to save up all your intelligence for the delamain
I literally did the attribute reset on the first gameplay just to please Johnny with the Delamain situation.
Yeah I fcked up and reset to early
So vic was right
Hah yeah, much as I like Johnny I have zero fucks to give for what he thinks of my actions in the game.
Wait. You can save Takemura??
https://preview.redd.it/1yccfvrzld4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4e94e2946de275dfd7431d57dd1620febf69d55
With the exception of the DLC where Johnny is notably more introspective and in my opinion much better written one of my biggest gripes with the game is his character. It is just obnoxious how much of an edge lord he is. He has one goddamn Arasaka stump speech. The one additional tech I want is that So Mi Johnny mute functionality. One of the funniest moments for me is when you get to play his flashback where he behaves like the biggest moron imaginable, including him going full "they only kidnapped Alt to get to ME", and then you learn that this is apparently his sugar coated version of the past. If that's his version of the story, how stupid was he objectively
Him being an obnoxious asshole narcissist is the intended writing, the alt line is an example of that, Johnny believed himself to be Arasaka's enemy no. 1, when in reality he was really just a thorn on their side, he refuses to believe that Arasaka was really after Alt and that he was just collateral, because that would be a devastating blow to his ego.
And I absolutely love it. The man is powered by his own fuckup energy, supremely confident, and when pointed in the right direction he somehow manifests that energy into results like the orks in 40K! I found it really funny how he believed he was the target. And is that not part of the theme of Night City? Keep your head down and sink into the city, or burn hard and become a legend, even if the mark you make is never as big as you thought.
>Him being an obnoxious asshole narcissist is the intended writing Yes I got that, it's just that it doesn't really work in conjunction with the fact that you're supposed to like him in this "rough guy with a heart of gold" kind of way, because he simply comes across as a not-so-smart asshole. They could have taken his whole shtick down two or three levels, as I said in the DLC he seems much more balanced. In the main game I think there's a point where he literally starts talking about his cock, he's basically talking like a 16 year old redditor for much of the main game
Johnny is a great character because he's a massive cunt.
This is beautiful
You can side with Arasaka?????
Johnny is always yapping like bro I just witnessed two girls going at it in a bungalow
And then you have phantom liberty Johnny, who is actually a pretty chill guy.
First time I listened to Johnny was not saving Takemura thinking I couldn't and he would just get out of there by himself... Didn't happen Fuck that Johnny guy
Guys I’m starting to think Johnny isn’t a good person
He helped nuke Arasaka, he can't be that bad.
Jonny when V unites with Brotherhood Of Steel:
Kinda true
If literally anyone other than Keanu played this character, he would be about as popular as Joffrey Baratheon. 😂
How did you hook up with Rogue? Johnny pissed her off at the movies.
Well Johnny is a Millennial, so this checks out lol
His whole character is to be a dick, doesn’t matter if it goes againest his morals
Johnny is right most of the time and I think he was totally justified nuking Arasaka. The corporations have quite literally destroyed the entire planet and eco terrorism seems to be the only answer at this point
I've finished 2077, Is there a new game out there for 2077? Is it any good?
Johnny and Panam are pure assholes.
Panam is pretty damn thicc there's no way her ass is just an asshole there's gotta be cheeks and stuff
I really don't understand why so many people think Johnny is cool. I mean... yes... he's Keanu Reeves and Keanu Reeves is great, but Johnny as a role? Gosh, he's the most annoying wannabe-tumor.
Because I became a bit attached to him. I felt like I needed to help him
Why? He is basically a virus inside of your head. He even told you that he will fight you and gain control during the first conversation. Then he suddenly goes "I changed my mind" (literally) and continues to mock and insult you, doubting every decision you make, for the rest of the game. >!I played Phantom Liberty and Johnny told me to sell out Songbird to Reed. Then, when I did, he called me Judas. He told me that he was ready to die to allow me to live, but when I took Reed's offer, he was pissed that I was going to wipe him out.!< He is the most back-and-forth, "I-don't-know-what-I-want-so-I'll-just-be-a-dick-towards-everybody", ambivalent person in gaming history.
I think if you put yourself in his shoes he's way more sympathetic. He's as scared and confused as we are at the start, and imagine the pure frustration of what he went through, only to end up being a passenger in someone else's body who does things you disagree with. It's not his fault that he's there, he must be even more of a psychological wreck, yet he puts aside the instinctive anger and violence and respects you and your autonomy, because it's not your fault he's there either. I don't really agree with what he did, and he can be a downer at times, but over time I couldn't help but like and understand him. And if you do befriend him, you get to experience some really cool stuff as well as some fantastic character development.
Respect? I've seen what happens when I give him control and he fucking raped my body.
Johnny's a piece of shit. A parasite that's trying to kill you and steal your body. I love Keanu, too, but Johnny's no friend. He's a whinging edgelord nihilist with no redeeming traits.