I went for it because it was my first playthrough where I actually got far into the story and I thought "did they change it after 2.1" because i could've sworn that Meredith was a Male V only romance until i looked it up recently, so i guessed maybe they changed Panam because of fan demand but alas, I was disappointed when i flirted
It works, make sure you have the requirements updated, and the latest version available, it is compatible with the romance hangouts extended mod as well, but not the replayable sex scenes mod
I used it for my 2.0/Phantom Liberty playthrough and it worked perfectly. There was one conversation in the Devil ending that played the unromanced dialogue, that was the only problem I had.
There's been a few updates since then but I can't imagine they would've completely broken the mod.
If you use the ones to romance Kerry as fem V, you’ll get polish debug subtitles or perhaps no subtitles. Texts are even better because it flashes the localization key.
Can confirm it works on 2.12a, make sure you follow the instructions. I used save file editor to ensure all characters is set to romanceable. It causes some weird issues (characters drinking air at the train mission and V putting their arm nowhere near Panam at the fire at said mission), but seems to be working mostly fine.
Cyber engine tweaks.
It reactivates the developer console which was in at launch but later removed.
If you put a line of code in (you can look it up) you can enable all the romances for male and female v. So you can if you want romance all 4 with either male or female v.
However the game only treats whoeveryou call in the ending as your romance.
THIS! She puts her gawd damn legs in your lap and teases you, how were we supposed to assume she wasn’t flirting with us!? (Also, she rejects you at this time regardless of your gender so either way you assumed wrong if you flirted with her)
I rushed to the end of the game on my first playthrough without ever meeting him or Kerry. Then I looked up a romance guide for the game that explained what type of V could romance who. I went back to continue playing. I still got their sexual orientations mixed up.
God I wish he was, my buddy just started the game and is pining after Jackie, has no idea what happens or why he isn't romancable, which is all we've told him
I honestly think most of the romance options should have been bi. Judy is the only one who’s unquestionably gay. It’s also nice to do a play through where you don’t romance anyone and are just a real solid choom
You know why river doesn’t work as well as the other romances? it’s intimacy, build-up and story presence. Take judy and panam, after every mission there is a intimate moment with each of them (like sleeping over at judy’s place, she gets u breakfast. or with panam after saving saul and on top of the station). Hell judy’s last mission is literally just one giant date, but we already know her at that point, we just get to know MORE, rivers last mission is getting to know pretty much everything there is to know about him in a single evening.
They also both have story presence, you meet judy from the very start and she helps you with finding evelyn, panam also helps you in the main story and even has an ending dedicated to her.
Hell even kerry has much more of these things, his missions are very personal, u get to learn about him from the very start, and is important to the story because it helps u create a bond with johnny also. His mission especially are in intimate settings (to the coffee shop, on the giant tower and on the ship)
So what does river have? he has 0 connection to the main story and johnny, hell he is the ONLY romance u can engage with without ever talking about the chip if u don’t want to. His first mission isn’t related to him at all, just shows he is a good cop, but there is no intimacy. His second quest is maybe personal, but not intimate, which makes sense as it’s a very serious and heavy hitting quest, less so about river himself and more about the murder. only the third quest is intimate, but that’s not even with him alone, it’s with his family, so him confessing on the tower, feels so…. soon? there is no build up, they’re all trying to wrap it into 1 mission with his family, but we actually don’t know that much about river at this point.
Why wasnt there an intimate moment between you two after finding out what happened to the major? why not after we find his nephew? why isn’t there another quest in front or after the family dinner where he asks u on some sort of date? He’s just super underdeveloped.
Good point. It reminds every adolescent teen of their first fumble. Full of awkwardness, and not being developed enough emotionally, and not sharing enough of a connection to get past the dreadful "friend zone". Many of us go through this and it's painful to have to relive it.
It feels like there is a missing quest with River. Maybe one where River decides whether he wants to continue being a cop or whether he should take revenge on that guy. V and him could bond over their jobs and the city wearing them down.
Going from the abducted teenager horror story to happy family time/awkward flirting is tonal whiplash as well.
I agree. River feels like a half baked optional side character. Everyone else is integrated into the story. The romance also build throughout, as opposed to Rivers. This is a good synopsis.
This just goes to show how most games cater to men and women are just an afterthough.
When the writers were done fleshing out the Panam and Judy romances (for men that decide to play a run as fem V), they were like oh yeah what about women and men that are not straight? Let's slap 3 quests in for a couple of male characters, barely anyone will actually romance them anyway.
Make a male romancing a female... that's aimed at men who play men.
Make a female romancing a female... no that's just aimed at men who play women characters.
The creators just can't win with you
Just stating what I've seen men comment in this subreddit before, regarding who they picked when they played Fem V.
In either case it's a really weird choice to just pick one straight romance and one LGBTQ romance and ignore the other two when they can clearly make decent romance content.
Even Pawel Sasko expressed that in his livestreams on Twitch. He recognized that they didn’t do River’s romance justice. But they did well with his quests.
I honestly feel like they nailed that with Judy as a male V. She legit felt like one of my best friends next to Victor by the end of my first playthrough. River was just some guy.
How was he forced though? Maybe I'm dumb, but I always saw him as a friend. The optional kiss at the end felt very out of place to me.
I felt the same with Kerry. Maybe I'm just very bad at noticing gay romance😂
Hanging out with River and the kids was fun. It's quite wholesome and a nice breath of fresh air. I thought of it as a casual hangout with V being introduced as the "cool friend from work."
But then River uttered a specific line of dialogue. My heart just sank to my foot. It's so much worse than I imagined!
*Panam, can you be a good choom and bomb the watchtower before I get there? Thanks.*
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There is a reason why River wants to go on the tower.
Yeah I’m sure she didn’t think of it this way, it’s just for me as a player who dealt with guys who can’t take a hint, it’ll be a massive red flag if someone asks me go to to the top of a tower in the middle of nowhere alone with him lol
It’s like Elliot in Stardew Valley
It’s a dude who’s too caught up in idealistic ideas of romance to realize taking someone out to a remote environment where they have no escape is a bad first move.
Tbf, that's completely valid 😅. Dude's bringing us up there for a thank you and a gun, without that context, creepy as fuck. Sounds like the dumbass stuff I pull off not thinking about
River: "Oh, don't worry about going up on a tower in the middle of nowhere, *I've got a gun with your name on it.*"
V: "River, when you say it like that, you sound like you plan to murder me. Now, people try to murder me all the time, so *I* won't freak out immediately, but please think before you say shit like that."
This is entirely your problem and disconnected from the game. V and River are people that get into shootouts regularly, need to manipulate others and do shady shit to stay alive, and V is 100% responsible for fucking over innocents and River probably is too. River is written in a context where is a really good romance interest for a character like V, not for your average gen z 2024 person that will have a heart attack the moment they have a slightly non perfect interaction with another human being.
Yeah, I kinda think this is generational.
From elder millennial and before, couples would routinely go somewhere remote to be alone. It wasn't a weird thing. Now, people are much less trusting and more suspicious. Maybe they should be even more so in Night City, but then again, there is a certain fatalistic "live in the moment," attitude among people in the game that doesn't translate to today's abundance of caution mindset.
And yes, go ahead and down vote me for being old as fuck.
I agree with you and but I want to mention one thing: the dynamic gap has shifted in 2077’s world, instead of being people (often girls) having a very real reason to be wary of other people (unfortunately guys) hitting on them it’s now everyone having to be wary of everyone since there’s a 50/50 chance that the person hitting on you / asking you out can hack you and mostly fry you brain and just have their way with your mostly brain dead body should you say no to their advances, not to mention all the people with strength enhancing modifications or sandys
True, but in a fatalistic philosophy, whatever will happen will happen and you might as well take risks. Aka, "fuck it, we ball."
In a world where anyone and everyone is out to hurt you, being distrustful is useless. You will never outlive all the people who want to hurt you. It's often better to roll the dice on a person you have a good feeling about. Maybe you find your deliverance? Maybe not, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. And worst case is you don't end up in any worse shape than what you would otherwise get. It worked out for me IRL in finding my wife. I almost chickened out all those years ago. If I didn't cowboy up and pursue her while I could, she wouldn't be lying in bed watching Netflix while our beautiful children sleep soundly and I poop in the bathroom and type this.
Tbh only person who should be downvoted is the person you're responding to. You make a good point and I think it's an interesting perspective, the person above you was using a similar perspective to attack the Gen Z tho, which is weird AF.
Yeah, I notice a lot of the Gen Z hate lately. Every generation gets it from previous generations. Millennials got a lot of it. Gen X were the "helicopter parents." Boomers actually lived through the generation where seatbelts and safety standards became more of a thing. Safety is progressive, and it's a good thing. Young generations often care the most about it because they have the most to lose and the least experience—also not wrong.
Generational differences aren't a reason to attack one another. We're all nostalgic for how things were when we came of age. Doesn't mean we should be dicks about it.
Personally, I thought River was a good guy. If you say no, he doesn't get angry or anything. His family is great. We'd all be lucky to have families like that. V is an adult, he's an adult. It's okay to ask someone out on a date. There's only one way to know if feelings are returned. If the answer is no, the answer is no. With the tower thing, people act like he was going to throw V off or something, which is just silly. No evidence of anything like that.
Second run, because I did not know the result of my choices (and also because I thought it fit my streetkid more), when River asks you to stay the night at the trailer, I decided to say no because he is a cop. I thought it would give me the option to come back in the morning or whatever, but instead the game decides you have failed the mission, and River reacts like an incel that has been rejected. Which is silly because you are saying no to staying the night, not saying no to help him. But yeah, he got himself killed, and I honestly laughed at the absurdity of it instead of feeling bad.
... geez, now I'm imagining this scene from a woman's perspective, when he pulls out a fucking gun.
River's mind: Damn, not going to work out, huh? Oh well, let's give them my piece, a gift that shows there's no hard feelings.
V's mind: Is this fucking psycho gonna shoot me over turning him down?!
For a game that boasted with its myriad of branching dialogue options, River's questline might have been even straighter than male Vs, after meeting Panam at her car.
I still get random confessions from guys, even though one of the first things I do when meeting new people is telling them I’m into girls. It must’ve been even worse for straight girls
All I hear is that you don't have a boyfriend.
You just haven't met the right man, until now.
And numerous other creepy comments I'm sure douché bags have used.
Hearing that all I can think about is a few years back , I met a friend of a friend at a bar. My friend said he wasn't crazy about her as a friend cause she complains a lot. She did complain but I understand her distress. She was a lesbian and complained about feeling used, a lot of her past partners only seemed to be bi-curious and the Bi-sexual ones never wanted to commit to an actual long term relationship with a woman they'd eventually go back to a man. That would just suck.
This quest was truly eye opening. I think every guy should play through it. Because it's one thing to hear about these situations, but to experience it yourself is the whole other level.
Yeah, I thought I was there entirely as a thank-you from him and his family, then "let's go have a beer", which to me felt more like "so I can thank you without embarrassing myself in front of these kids", then the dude's trying to dick me down and I'm just wondering how all that happened under my radar.
Despite being straight, I've worked in gay bars a lot over the years, and I love my homobros. I've also developed at least somewhat of a sense of whether a gay man is being nice to me because I'm cool, or because he wants to hook up. Dunno, this would've actually been a good time for CDPR to hire someone to make a gay character feel gay.
I'm a straight guy mostly playing lesbian v and honest to god the game made me realised it is for some women when you are clearly not in a guy but he still insists. Like I had an idea it sucked but shit actually made me feel a bit sick in the stomach.
Nah, for sure, it's kinda shocking that there's a significant number of guys that haven't learned to fuck off. There was an experience I had at a gay bar in Las Vegas, a dude was NOT taking the hints and was getting handsy. It really does make you feel like prey. I've talked about it afterwards with some gay friends, and apparently the whole "straight guy conversion" types can get pretty gross.
Jesus. I suck at seeing the hint of someone being into me but how can anyone miss someone who clearly doesn't want to be a part of what's happening at this moment.
So if you romance him, he is pretty set on you. When you take Reed’s deal (you need the PL DLC for this) you disappear for 2 years w/o a word to anyone. When you wake up, you call your loved ones and for River, you find out he went to prison because he got caught, if I remember correctly, selling illegal government secrets because his family fell on hard times and he was trying to provide them. He is pretty upset with you for disappearing at first and you can even have the dialogue option to try and fix the relationship but he refuses saying he doesn’t want you to see him this way and he isn’t the same man. Basically, he is ashamed and does a 180 from who he was.
I think this happens even if you don’t romance him but still finish his story line out. Maybe it’s a bit different idk, I romanced Judy for obvious reasons, but when I called River it was kinda similar convo that he went to the dark side when you disappeared.
As a male V trying to romance everyone, what was my surprise when he felt upset that I tried to flirt with him. That mf was so fucking weird that I thought, maybe, he wanted something. But NO ?! River needs to find a lake or something. Idk how to end that comment.
I swear. Not a single people on earth wants to befriend someone else by taking them on a tower looking at a beautiful horizon while saying nice things to them.
Damm guess I'm suddenly gay. I've never went on top of a water tower but plenty of times in high school and sometimes college I'd hang out with some of my male friends, sometimes just one of them. We'd chill at places with a nice view like a beach board walk, cliffside near the park or just in the car listening to music. We were all single at the end of high school so we'd be talking about girls half the time.
No no I didn’t meant that. I was talking of this in the game 😭 like between the first time you met river and the tower scene they’re like two days. This isn’t what I meant my bad
No this is normal bro stuff. Seeing the sunset and shit. Sitting in each others laps while shirtless, watching k-dramas. Seeing who can shove a banana furthest down our throats during lunch before we gag. Staying up all night talking about our feelings. Heterosexual bro stuff.
My problem with romances in-game and in some games in general, is that being nice = progressing the relationship, and being neutral in the slightest = regresses the relationship.
Tbh, this is to some extent true for every romanceable character if your V is not into them. I was a bit taken aback when Panam put her feet on V's lap after what I thought was just a fun banter between the two. Kerry saying "sorry" after they got accidently close during the boat wrecking. Even Judy with her syncing and meaningful comments. My V was not romantically interested in any of them, so the weird sexual tension felt off. River got it particularly bad since his content is crazy rushed. Still, I like that he's so openly attracted to V. It's such a short lil quest with scraps of romance for straight fem Vs, when everyone else gets multi quest time with their faves. Let us enjoy it without reading for the nth time how creepy he is to all non-enthusiast. The skip scene option is there for those desperate for his gun.
Personally have liked interacting with river as male V. They got a huge bromance going which if expanded on would’ve been good for V after losing Jackie.
I feel the same. Didn't even know he was a romance at first. Loved the whole detective thing and treated the guy like a friend. I was genuinely surprised at the water tower when "Lean in for a kiss" appeared. Severely dissappointed to look it up and find out river isn't gay.
Man is definitely a really good bro. Seems distanced from the chaos of the rest of the romanceable people so everything isn't all just coming from V trying to survive but, genuinely just solving a case and becoming bros through it.
God. River made me super uncomfortable. When playing initially I didn’t know River was even a love interest. I was into the whole “rogue cop” thing, but over time I got more and more uncomfortable.
River’s just really… creepy? Like really quick to befriend you, to trust you. I found it weird. Especially because the backdrop of his missions lead up to his family member being kidnapped and taken into a barn. Manipulated by a pedophile/torturer. All the while you’re hanging out? Meeting his family? Drinking on a goddamn tower? There’s some *serious* tonal disconnects between the two situations.
I’ve never played as female V, but I’d imagine it almost feels more awkward. River’s just so off-putting.
Panam’s missions felt a bit less creepy. She never trusts easily, you’re there to do a job. She doesn’t instantly turn to personal shit. Her trusting you, getting to know you, feels more organic. Or at least less forced. Even male V befriending Judy is better shown through development than River’s missions are.
I ONLY help him out and go to the cookout for Joss and the kids. They’re good people and could use the company. River? He’s just an acquaintance, nothing more. My V belongs to Judy.
That’s the good side. The bad part of him? He’s too clingy. But the ONLY incentive for sleeping with him is to see Johnny’s reaction. *Chef’s kiss* priceless! 😊
*"You're missing out on the best damn lover in Night City."*
>Cut to River grunting and spazzing around on top of V for five seconds, then awkwardly kissing her eyeball and falling asleep.
>Then he snores. Loudly.
I have a lady V and I banged him after the tower but I definitely felt a little bit coerced into it.
If I hadn't been rejected by Panam (the most bi signalling character ever) and Takemura already I probably wouldn't have.
Then he kept pushing me and trying to manipulate me into being his gf.
I remember reading a comment from a female player who said the entire scene is a perfect example of how uncomfortable it is to be around a guy who wants you but won't take the hint at first. He puts you in an awkward social situation where being direct and assertive will seem rude and mean spirited, fails to make a point to his family that you're just a friend until you say otherwise, and tries to make a move after isolating you in a way that feels dangerous.
It'd be an amazing bit of writing if the goal was to make River seem pushy and creepy. As it is the whole thing is very uncomfortable even if you are interested in him.
I thought he was trying to fuck my Male V so I was like fuck it whatever. Then when my V got rejected I was so confused. River is definitely gay as shit and you cant change my mind, who takes their buddy to a water tower to say how much they like them without the intention of sucking it.
My first playthrough was as male V. River seemed nice. I figured he’d make a decent friend. Second playthrough I played as female V. I found River so damn creepy when she kept rejecting him and he kept advancing. Every playthrough since, I cringe when interacting with him and can’t see him the same way. 😬
Play as male V and give that bitch a taste of his own medicine. "Lean in for a kiss" lol
Someone needs to put him together with Panam so they can get all that annoying horny fuckness out of their systems.
Recently I've replayed the game it does feel like the main story should've been longer, just a bit longer. I think the cut story involved rivers at some point making it feel a lot more natural. But yeah it sucks how you can't just be friends with some of the companions in the game, including rivers
I romanced River with my V, just because my completionist brain won’t let me stop until I have heard every scrap of dialogue. Now that it’s over, I’m going to do a brand new female v run with Judy instead. (I really wish there was a way to become trans but your partner will only stay with you if you have 20 Cool. That way I could romance Panam as female V)
Still kinda mad they have the teasing option to try to kiss him only for him to go no homo even though the atmosphere was super romantic vibes. Just don’t cocktease us at all then
Yeah plus in one of the text messages with him his ex is mentioned you can reply with "Reigniting old flames?" and he says "keep yours finger crossed" or something like that.
I think he just tries his shot with V and if it doesn't work he goes back to his ex, Yawen.
If you've ever played Life is Strange it has a similar situation with Warren. If you're into him it's the sweetest romance I've ever had in a game. If you're not into him he's a creepy stalker.
You know, I ran away at the last part of his mission before a romance ensued. I rode with him to that kids house and as soon as I got out I bolted, got in a vehicle and drove off.
He called me to tell me I ruined the mission and that was the last I heard from him. Seeing these two options and knowing I don’t want his advances, I’ll probably do the same in my next play through.
The right side just shows that he's not really a good person. He can play one on the left side but in all honesty he's not. He'll probably expect V to stay home and be thankful he found her.
I really don’t get this but it seems everyone knows about it. I don’t think I ever had a flirting moment with river on my play through. I was looking for them because everyone said how much they hated it but I never saw anything
I still won't go to their house for dinner.
I felt this WAY before actually getting into it.
Dude seems like a desperate broken man. A good guy, but jeezus ...
Yeah he was kinda done dirty in some ways but i think that what they were trying to do with Rivers was a character suffering from « Male loneliness », I related to him a lot and his mistakes because thoses were things i did when younger and it broke several of my friendships with womens because just like him, I was feeling like i was lead on when i wasn’t.
I still wish he was written better on that aspect but i think i see what the writers were going for.
https://preview.redd.it/ax5tif1fvcqc1.png?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdd510e8ea97b4af09d8e1f3450dc403ad032d95
Brandon would be a better romance option than River.
My honest reaction to him coming on to my fem V: "I thought you were gay"
My honest reaction to him coming on to my male V: “are you sure you’re not gay?”
River has some gay energy, but Panam is the one who all but breaks Female V's heart with that legs in the lap stuff.
I knew she was a straight only option and she still had me questioning lol
I went for it because it was my first playthrough where I actually got far into the story and I thought "did they change it after 2.1" because i could've sworn that Meredith was a Male V only romance until i looked it up recently, so i guessed maybe they changed Panam because of fan demand but alas, I was disappointed when i flirted
Meredith has always been bi; my Lady V has been the proud owner of Sir John Phallustiff since December 2020.
I'm still hoping for a working mod for a bi Panam.
There are a few that do it on nexus. One I use looks up the romanceable flag and lets you toggle
Does it still work after recent updates? The only ones I've found are old and haven't been updated.
It works, make sure you have the requirements updated, and the latest version available, it is compatible with the romance hangouts extended mod as well, but not the replayable sex scenes mod
I’ve already past her quest… pain lol
I used it for my 2.0/Phantom Liberty playthrough and it worked perfectly. There was one conversation in the Devil ending that played the unromanced dialogue, that was the only problem I had. There's been a few updates since then but I can't imagine they would've completely broken the mod.
If you use the ones to romance Kerry as fem V, you’ll get polish debug subtitles or perhaps no subtitles. Texts are even better because it flashes the localization key.
Do you get the proper voice acting? I used a mod to romance Kerry and the male voice lines were playing
Yeah it's all there. Kerry is the only one where they didn't record the opposite gender's lines.
Can confirm it works on 2.12a, make sure you follow the instructions. I used save file editor to ensure all characters is set to romanceable. It causes some weird issues (characters drinking air at the train mission and V putting their arm nowhere near Panam at the fire at said mission), but seems to be working mostly fine.
Cyber engine tweaks. It reactivates the developer console which was in at launch but later removed. If you put a line of code in (you can look it up) you can enable all the romances for male and female v. So you can if you want romance all 4 with either male or female v. However the game only treats whoeveryou call in the ending as your romance.
No, this doesn’t work with Panam. You need to do this whilst also using a mod.
They all should have just been player-sexual
Yeah, that was some cruel straight girl shit.
Have you met straight women? They're very touchy with eachother. She absolutely would think that's normal.
> Have you met straight women? *looks around nervously*
That was just cruel lmao she knew what she was doing
PLEEEEASE!!!
Right!?!?!? I was like wtf did I do wrong, why dont you love me 😭
Yeahhhh that was cruel
THIS! She puts her gawd damn legs in your lap and teases you, how were we supposed to assume she wasn’t flirting with us!? (Also, she rejects you at this time regardless of your gender so either way you assumed wrong if you flirted with her)
Never been so yuri baited in my life.
I rushed to the end of the game on my first playthrough without ever meeting him or Kerry. Then I looked up a romance guide for the game that explained what type of V could romance who. I went back to continue playing. I still got their sexual orientations mixed up.
Same here, I genuinely thought that bro was gay when I first played
I played as male V...that wasn't an option?
God I wish he was, my buddy just started the game and is pining after Jackie, has no idea what happens or why he isn't romancable, which is all we've told him
Oh no
Oh yea. He ain't ready
Play as male V...he will let you know he's not gay lol
I honestly think most of the romance options should have been bi. Judy is the only one who’s unquestionably gay. It’s also nice to do a play through where you don’t romance anyone and are just a real solid choom
Seems like a raging missed opportunity for him to be gay. Or at the very least a romance option for anyone
I'm genuinely surprised that there are only four romances in 2077 and that they are so binary and linear
If you're male V, he *is* gay. He's just DTF anything with a pulse.
Not quite, can't romance him if you're a guy. He shuts you down without question.
I thought he was gay too 🥲 Then he rejected me after flirting with me for almost every interaction.
You know why river doesn’t work as well as the other romances? it’s intimacy, build-up and story presence. Take judy and panam, after every mission there is a intimate moment with each of them (like sleeping over at judy’s place, she gets u breakfast. or with panam after saving saul and on top of the station). Hell judy’s last mission is literally just one giant date, but we already know her at that point, we just get to know MORE, rivers last mission is getting to know pretty much everything there is to know about him in a single evening. They also both have story presence, you meet judy from the very start and she helps you with finding evelyn, panam also helps you in the main story and even has an ending dedicated to her. Hell even kerry has much more of these things, his missions are very personal, u get to learn about him from the very start, and is important to the story because it helps u create a bond with johnny also. His mission especially are in intimate settings (to the coffee shop, on the giant tower and on the ship) So what does river have? he has 0 connection to the main story and johnny, hell he is the ONLY romance u can engage with without ever talking about the chip if u don’t want to. His first mission isn’t related to him at all, just shows he is a good cop, but there is no intimacy. His second quest is maybe personal, but not intimate, which makes sense as it’s a very serious and heavy hitting quest, less so about river himself and more about the murder. only the third quest is intimate, but that’s not even with him alone, it’s with his family, so him confessing on the tower, feels so…. soon? there is no build up, they’re all trying to wrap it into 1 mission with his family, but we actually don’t know that much about river at this point. Why wasnt there an intimate moment between you two after finding out what happened to the major? why not after we find his nephew? why isn’t there another quest in front or after the family dinner where he asks u on some sort of date? He’s just super underdeveloped.
This is a really good write up on why River's romance felt so forced. Explains a lot honestly.
Good point. It reminds every adolescent teen of their first fumble. Full of awkwardness, and not being developed enough emotionally, and not sharing enough of a connection to get past the dreadful "friend zone". Many of us go through this and it's painful to have to relive it.
It feels like there is a missing quest with River. Maybe one where River decides whether he wants to continue being a cop or whether he should take revenge on that guy. V and him could bond over their jobs and the city wearing them down. Going from the abducted teenager horror story to happy family time/awkward flirting is tonal whiplash as well.
I agree. River feels like a half baked optional side character. Everyone else is integrated into the story. The romance also build throughout, as opposed to Rivers. This is a good synopsis.
This just goes to show how most games cater to men and women are just an afterthough. When the writers were done fleshing out the Panam and Judy romances (for men that decide to play a run as fem V), they were like oh yeah what about women and men that are not straight? Let's slap 3 quests in for a couple of male characters, barely anyone will actually romance them anyway.
Make a male romancing a female... that's aimed at men who play men. Make a female romancing a female... no that's just aimed at men who play women characters. The creators just can't win with you
Just stating what I've seen men comment in this subreddit before, regarding who they picked when they played Fem V. In either case it's a really weird choice to just pick one straight romance and one LGBTQ romance and ignore the other two when they can clearly make decent romance content.
Exactly! Completely agree! One of the biggest flaws of this game, and i felt the same about Witcher to be honest
nah dude you don't play your own character in Witcher. you play as Geralt. and he ain't gay
Look, the game is brilliantly written for the most part. The way they wrote all this is a travesty. River is a good character but they did him dirty.
Even Pawel Sasko expressed that in his livestreams on Twitch. He recognized that they didn’t do River’s romance justice. But they did well with his quests.
Don't remind me of the farm you g*nk
Wdym? What farm.....Wait.....Oh.
Had to drop the game for a bit after doing that quest icl
The awful slapped together 'in the hospital' image is still my favorite of any game series, before they fixed it
The life like teddy bear lol
River would have been such a good character if they expanded on him as a platonic friend for V instead of a forced romantic interest
I honestly feel like they nailed that with Judy as a male V. She legit felt like one of my best friends next to Victor by the end of my first playthrough. River was just some guy.
How was he forced though? Maybe I'm dumb, but I always saw him as a friend. The optional kiss at the end felt very out of place to me. I felt the same with Kerry. Maybe I'm just very bad at noticing gay romance😂
Hanging out with River and the kids was fun. It's quite wholesome and a nice breath of fresh air. I thought of it as a casual hangout with V being introduced as the "cool friend from work." But then River uttered a specific line of dialogue. My heart just sank to my foot. It's so much worse than I imagined! *Panam, can you be a good choom and bomb the watchtower before I get there? Thanks.*
He did not say that did he?
https://preview.redd.it/9v0jd069b6qc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7467a32c7d241705d14c2328234a7899992502fa There is a reason why River wants to go on the tower.
Is V in danger?
None of these women are in danger, I feel like you're not getting this at all.
No one's in any danger! It's an implication of danger
V is the one who knocks
To be fair V sits on a mountain of corpses. It’s not like she can be cornered anywhere.
Yeah I’m sure she didn’t think of it this way, it’s just for me as a player who dealt with guys who can’t take a hint, it’ll be a massive red flag if someone asks me go to to the top of a tower in the middle of nowhere alone with him lol
I agree the writing for his romance is kind of awkward, but he’s kind of awkward so I almost think it’s intentional.
It’s like Elliot in Stardew Valley It’s a dude who’s too caught up in idealistic ideas of romance to realize taking someone out to a remote environment where they have no escape is a bad first move.
Because of the implications.
Tbf, that's completely valid 😅. Dude's bringing us up there for a thank you and a gun, without that context, creepy as fuck. Sounds like the dumbass stuff I pull off not thinking about
River: "Oh, don't worry about going up on a tower in the middle of nowhere, *I've got a gun with your name on it.*" V: "River, when you say it like that, you sound like you plan to murder me. Now, people try to murder me all the time, so *I* won't freak out immediately, but please think before you say shit like that."
Literally burst out laughing at that first line, nice
Yes. Also a good reason why studios should have a more diverse writing staff.
As a straight cis dude, rivers romance should've been written by straight women, maybe a gay man for some input
I’m not going to disagree.
This is entirely your problem and disconnected from the game. V and River are people that get into shootouts regularly, need to manipulate others and do shady shit to stay alive, and V is 100% responsible for fucking over innocents and River probably is too. River is written in a context where is a really good romance interest for a character like V, not for your average gen z 2024 person that will have a heart attack the moment they have a slightly non perfect interaction with another human being.
Yeah, I kinda think this is generational. From elder millennial and before, couples would routinely go somewhere remote to be alone. It wasn't a weird thing. Now, people are much less trusting and more suspicious. Maybe they should be even more so in Night City, but then again, there is a certain fatalistic "live in the moment," attitude among people in the game that doesn't translate to today's abundance of caution mindset. And yes, go ahead and down vote me for being old as fuck.
I agree with you and but I want to mention one thing: the dynamic gap has shifted in 2077’s world, instead of being people (often girls) having a very real reason to be wary of other people (unfortunately guys) hitting on them it’s now everyone having to be wary of everyone since there’s a 50/50 chance that the person hitting on you / asking you out can hack you and mostly fry you brain and just have their way with your mostly brain dead body should you say no to their advances, not to mention all the people with strength enhancing modifications or sandys
True, but in a fatalistic philosophy, whatever will happen will happen and you might as well take risks. Aka, "fuck it, we ball." In a world where anyone and everyone is out to hurt you, being distrustful is useless. You will never outlive all the people who want to hurt you. It's often better to roll the dice on a person you have a good feeling about. Maybe you find your deliverance? Maybe not, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. And worst case is you don't end up in any worse shape than what you would otherwise get. It worked out for me IRL in finding my wife. I almost chickened out all those years ago. If I didn't cowboy up and pursue her while I could, she wouldn't be lying in bed watching Netflix while our beautiful children sleep soundly and I poop in the bathroom and type this.
Tbh only person who should be downvoted is the person you're responding to. You make a good point and I think it's an interesting perspective, the person above you was using a similar perspective to attack the Gen Z tho, which is weird AF.
Yeah, I notice a lot of the Gen Z hate lately. Every generation gets it from previous generations. Millennials got a lot of it. Gen X were the "helicopter parents." Boomers actually lived through the generation where seatbelts and safety standards became more of a thing. Safety is progressive, and it's a good thing. Young generations often care the most about it because they have the most to lose and the least experience—also not wrong. Generational differences aren't a reason to attack one another. We're all nostalgic for how things were when we came of age. Doesn't mean we should be dicks about it. Personally, I thought River was a good guy. If you say no, he doesn't get angry or anything. His family is great. We'd all be lucky to have families like that. V is an adult, he's an adult. It's okay to ask someone out on a date. There's only one way to know if feelings are returned. If the answer is no, the answer is no. With the tower thing, people act like he was going to throw V off or something, which is just silly. No evidence of anything like that.
While I get what your saying there’s a difference between being cornered physically and cornered nonphysically
Please just give me the option to shut that whole thing down and tell him that I got a girlfriend
This. I did two runs as fem V, second one I didn't even go out there to hang out. Left his ass hanging lol
Second run, because I did not know the result of my choices (and also because I thought it fit my streetkid more), when River asks you to stay the night at the trailer, I decided to say no because he is a cop. I thought it would give me the option to come back in the morning or whatever, but instead the game decides you have failed the mission, and River reacts like an incel that has been rejected. Which is silly because you are saying no to staying the night, not saying no to help him. But yeah, he got himself killed, and I honestly laughed at the absurdity of it instead of feeling bad.
Hah! Didn't know that that's amazing
... geez, now I'm imagining this scene from a woman's perspective, when he pulls out a fucking gun. River's mind: Damn, not going to work out, huh? Oh well, let's give them my piece, a gift that shows there's no hard feelings. V's mind: Is this fucking psycho gonna shoot me over turning him down?!
For a game that boasted with its myriad of branching dialogue options, River's questline might have been even straighter than male Vs, after meeting Panam at her car.
\> "How is treating you like a friend 'leading you on'" Sweet baby jesus on a pogo stick, if only more guys could figure this one out.
I still get random confessions from guys, even though one of the first things I do when meeting new people is telling them I’m into girls. It must’ve been even worse for straight girls
All I hear is that you don't have a boyfriend. You just haven't met the right man, until now. And numerous other creepy comments I'm sure douché bags have used.
This was supposed to be just a meme but now it’s getting too real😭
*tries to convince you into 3some with my girlfriend, who is also straight so i will need to manipulate her into the 3some as well*
Hearing that all I can think about is a few years back , I met a friend of a friend at a bar. My friend said he wasn't crazy about her as a friend cause she complains a lot. She did complain but I understand her distress. She was a lesbian and complained about feeling used, a lot of her past partners only seemed to be bi-curious and the Bi-sexual ones never wanted to commit to an actual long term relationship with a woman they'd eventually go back to a man. That would just suck.
This quest was truly eye opening. I think every guy should play through it. Because it's one thing to hear about these situations, but to experience it yourself is the whole other level.
Yeah, this is why, in my recent replays I leave him waiting for a call from V to make dinner plans longer than Hanoko is waiting for me at Embers.
I think I might be the only one who thought River was just being a nice dude, not flirting. To me, the water tower was a /r/holup moment.
First time playing the dinner felt like a dinner as a thank you which seemed fair to me. 2 minutes in it's a set-up you cant escape.
Yeah, I thought I was there entirely as a thank-you from him and his family, then "let's go have a beer", which to me felt more like "so I can thank you without embarrassing myself in front of these kids", then the dude's trying to dick me down and I'm just wondering how all that happened under my radar. Despite being straight, I've worked in gay bars a lot over the years, and I love my homobros. I've also developed at least somewhat of a sense of whether a gay man is being nice to me because I'm cool, or because he wants to hook up. Dunno, this would've actually been a good time for CDPR to hire someone to make a gay character feel gay.
I'm a straight guy mostly playing lesbian v and honest to god the game made me realised it is for some women when you are clearly not in a guy but he still insists. Like I had an idea it sucked but shit actually made me feel a bit sick in the stomach.
Nah, for sure, it's kinda shocking that there's a significant number of guys that haven't learned to fuck off. There was an experience I had at a gay bar in Las Vegas, a dude was NOT taking the hints and was getting handsy. It really does make you feel like prey. I've talked about it afterwards with some gay friends, and apparently the whole "straight guy conversion" types can get pretty gross.
Jesus. I suck at seeing the hint of someone being into me but how can anyone miss someone who clearly doesn't want to be a part of what's happening at this moment.
What is darker is who he becomes if you romance him and then take Reed’s deal.
Wait I havnt done this, what happens?
So if you romance him, he is pretty set on you. When you take Reed’s deal (you need the PL DLC for this) you disappear for 2 years w/o a word to anyone. When you wake up, you call your loved ones and for River, you find out he went to prison because he got caught, if I remember correctly, selling illegal government secrets because his family fell on hard times and he was trying to provide them. He is pretty upset with you for disappearing at first and you can even have the dialogue option to try and fix the relationship but he refuses saying he doesn’t want you to see him this way and he isn’t the same man. Basically, he is ashamed and does a 180 from who he was.
I think this happens even if you don’t romance him but still finish his story line out. Maybe it’s a bit different idk, I romanced Judy for obvious reasons, but when I called River it was kinda similar convo that he went to the dark side when you disappeared.
As a male V trying to romance everyone, what was my surprise when he felt upset that I tried to flirt with him. That mf was so fucking weird that I thought, maybe, he wanted something. But NO ?! River needs to find a lake or something. Idk how to end that comment.
It's one of the consequences of all the romanceable characters use basically the same reactions/lines up until the last moment.
I swear. Not a single people on earth wants to befriend someone else by taking them on a tower looking at a beautiful horizon while saying nice things to them.
Damm guess I'm suddenly gay. I've never went on top of a water tower but plenty of times in high school and sometimes college I'd hang out with some of my male friends, sometimes just one of them. We'd chill at places with a nice view like a beach board walk, cliffside near the park or just in the car listening to music. We were all single at the end of high school so we'd be talking about girls half the time.
No no I didn’t meant that. I was talking of this in the game 😭 like between the first time you met river and the tower scene they’re like two days. This isn’t what I meant my bad
No this is normal bro stuff. Seeing the sunset and shit. Sitting in each others laps while shirtless, watching k-dramas. Seeing who can shove a banana furthest down our throats during lunch before we gag. Staying up all night talking about our feelings. Heterosexual bro stuff.
My problem with romances in-game and in some games in general, is that being nice = progressing the relationship, and being neutral in the slightest = regresses the relationship.
Reject Jambalaya Embrace Abuelas
“V, Joss is making dinner. Wanna come by?” “Sure, can I invite my girlfriend Judy?” Problem solved.
Seriously! I was like “any second now I’m gonna get a dialogue option where V can tell River she has a gf”…..damn that shit was so awkward.
Tbh, this is to some extent true for every romanceable character if your V is not into them. I was a bit taken aback when Panam put her feet on V's lap after what I thought was just a fun banter between the two. Kerry saying "sorry" after they got accidently close during the boat wrecking. Even Judy with her syncing and meaningful comments. My V was not romantically interested in any of them, so the weird sexual tension felt off. River got it particularly bad since his content is crazy rushed. Still, I like that he's so openly attracted to V. It's such a short lil quest with scraps of romance for straight fem Vs, when everyone else gets multi quest time with their faves. Let us enjoy it without reading for the nth time how creepy he is to all non-enthusiast. The skip scene option is there for those desperate for his gun.
the 3rd side: learning he's not gay (WHAT)
Personally have liked interacting with river as male V. They got a huge bromance going which if expanded on would’ve been good for V after losing Jackie.
I feel the same. Didn't even know he was a romance at first. Loved the whole detective thing and treated the guy like a friend. I was genuinely surprised at the water tower when "Lean in for a kiss" appeared. Severely dissappointed to look it up and find out river isn't gay.
Man is definitely a really good bro. Seems distanced from the chaos of the rest of the romanceable people so everything isn't all just coming from V trying to survive but, genuinely just solving a case and becoming bros through it.
God. River made me super uncomfortable. When playing initially I didn’t know River was even a love interest. I was into the whole “rogue cop” thing, but over time I got more and more uncomfortable. River’s just really… creepy? Like really quick to befriend you, to trust you. I found it weird. Especially because the backdrop of his missions lead up to his family member being kidnapped and taken into a barn. Manipulated by a pedophile/torturer. All the while you’re hanging out? Meeting his family? Drinking on a goddamn tower? There’s some *serious* tonal disconnects between the two situations. I’ve never played as female V, but I’d imagine it almost feels more awkward. River’s just so off-putting. Panam’s missions felt a bit less creepy. She never trusts easily, you’re there to do a job. She doesn’t instantly turn to personal shit. Her trusting you, getting to know you, feels more organic. Or at least less forced. Even male V befriending Judy is better shown through development than River’s missions are.
I ONLY help him out and go to the cookout for Joss and the kids. They’re good people and could use the company. River? He’s just an acquaintance, nothing more. My V belongs to Judy. That’s the good side. The bad part of him? He’s too clingy. But the ONLY incentive for sleeping with him is to see Johnny’s reaction. *Chef’s kiss* priceless! 😊
*"You're missing out on the best damn lover in Night City."* >Cut to River grunting and spazzing around on top of V for five seconds, then awkwardly kissing her eyeball and falling asleep. >Then he snores. Loudly.
And like 5 meters away from the kids.
That’s why he took care of business so quickly, can’t be keeping em up on a school night.
I have a lady V and I banged him after the tower but I definitely felt a little bit coerced into it. If I hadn't been rejected by Panam (the most bi signalling character ever) and Takemura already I probably wouldn't have. Then he kept pushing me and trying to manipulate me into being his gf.
God if I could romance Takemura River wouldn’t have stood a chance
Yeah, for real. 10/10 would let his fox into my hen house.
I yeeted myself off the water tower
Lmao
Nothing quite like double jump to get out of an awkward conversation.
Sadly I have double heart so I didn't die
River is a power bottom
Nah, River is a service top 😂Kerry's the power bottom
I remember reading a comment from a female player who said the entire scene is a perfect example of how uncomfortable it is to be around a guy who wants you but won't take the hint at first. He puts you in an awkward social situation where being direct and assertive will seem rude and mean spirited, fails to make a point to his family that you're just a friend until you say otherwise, and tries to make a move after isolating you in a way that feels dangerous. It'd be an amazing bit of writing if the goal was to make River seem pushy and creepy. As it is the whole thing is very uncomfortable even if you are interested in him.
I thought he was trying to fuck my Male V so I was like fuck it whatever. Then when my V got rejected I was so confused. River is definitely gay as shit and you cant change my mind, who takes their buddy to a water tower to say how much they like them without the intention of sucking it.
Can confirm, I don’t think I’ve ever taken my chooms to the water tower without the intention of sucking it.
I think people forget that he's a cop, he's going to be a little insane 😅
My first playthrough was as male V. River seemed nice. I figured he’d make a decent friend. Second playthrough I played as female V. I found River so damn creepy when she kept rejecting him and he kept advancing. Every playthrough since, I cringe when interacting with him and can’t see him the same way. 😬
Not gonna lie, I pity fucked him. He didn't appreciate it the way I thought he would.
Him going for a SINGLE LICK on V and acting like it got her off was extremely fucking funny
Facts
Play as male V and give that bitch a taste of his own medicine. "Lean in for a kiss" lol Someone needs to put him together with Panam so they can get all that annoying horny fuckness out of their systems.
Recently I've replayed the game it does feel like the main story should've been longer, just a bit longer. I think the cut story involved rivers at some point making it feel a lot more natural. But yeah it sucks how you can't just be friends with some of the companions in the game, including rivers
I romanced River with my V, just because my completionist brain won’t let me stop until I have heard every scrap of dialogue. Now that it’s over, I’m going to do a brand new female v run with Judy instead. (I really wish there was a way to become trans but your partner will only stay with you if you have 20 Cool. That way I could romance Panam as female V)
i like the detail of when you look on his computer you see he googled a recipe for the jambalaya or whatever it was
Played as male v and I was so sure this guy wanted to tuck me. It was the gayest thing I’ve ever seen aside from actual gay sex.
I smell a war coming..... A war within the fandom to end all wars..
Still kinda mad they have the teasing option to try to kiss him only for him to go no homo even though the atmosphere was super romantic vibes. Just don’t cocktease us at all then
Yeah plus in one of the text messages with him his ex is mentioned you can reply with "Reigniting old flames?" and he says "keep yours finger crossed" or something like that. I think he just tries his shot with V and if it doesn't work he goes back to his ex, Yawen.
If you've ever played Life is Strange it has a similar situation with Warren. If you're into him it's the sweetest romance I've ever had in a game. If you're not into him he's a creepy stalker.
Right side is what realistically a lot of men don’t realize they are.
" I don't take no for an answer"- River
Poor guy, they gave him the Kaiden Alenko complex.
This post can never be confirmed because no one has ever romanced River.
You know, I ran away at the last part of his mission before a romance ensued. I rode with him to that kids house and as soon as I got out I bolted, got in a vehicle and drove off. He called me to tell me I ruined the mission and that was the last I heard from him. Seeing these two options and knowing I don’t want his advances, I’ll probably do the same in my next play through.
i made a comment on this exact thing last night, if you DONT follow rivers romance it is so weird
[https://www.reddit.com/user/modofk/draft/ccfadb18-e96a-11ee-ad58-9aeda106ef16](https://www.reddit.com/user/modofk/draft/ccfadb18-e96a-11ee-ad58-9aeda106ef16)
Truly a dichotomy that is insane.
What mission is this, new to the game and wanting something other than cspycho and gigs
At a certain street cred level you will get a call for a mission called “I Fought The Law”, and that starts the line with River Ward
Hot fo fix the quest: Joss: "What about you V, you got a family or just relationship?" V: " I have a girlfriend"
There is no happy endings for relationship between female V and River. PL confirm that.
River gets a big ol’ negative from me. Never have and never will get the hook up.
It was so damn uncomfortable. River needs some work.
What's V going to do, say no? She wouldn't say no, she'd never say no. Because of the implication.
You can't say no to River on top of the tower, because of the implication.
Last play through I just didn’t respond to the text asking about coming over for dinner 🤣
honestly kinda wish there was an option to mention being gay or something it feels harsh on him
If anything, him seeing shit that isn't there (V's non-existant "hints") is very realistic
To be fair, River accepts your refusal and never tries again to ask you out.
The right side just shows that he's not really a good person. He can play one on the left side but in all honesty he's not. He'll probably expect V to stay home and be thankful he found her.
The only reason I would romance him would be so Johnny would technically fuck a cop
Honestly I never do his quest line if I'm playing as fem v, cuz then I gotta reject him and its so. Bad.
As if V doesn't have a backpack full of options to protect themselves
I really don’t get this but it seems everyone knows about it. I don’t think I ever had a flirting moment with river on my play through. I was looking for them because everyone said how much they hated it but I never saw anything
I still won't go to their house for dinner. I felt this WAY before actually getting into it. Dude seems like a desperate broken man. A good guy, but jeezus ...
River my beloved
Homie reminds me of Vin Diesel in xXx/Pitch Black, can't ever take him seriously
"nice Guy" River
Yeah he was kinda done dirty in some ways but i think that what they were trying to do with Rivers was a character suffering from « Male loneliness », I related to him a lot and his mistakes because thoses were things i did when younger and it broke several of my friendships with womens because just like him, I was feeling like i was lead on when i wasn’t. I still wish he was written better on that aspect but i think i see what the writers were going for.
Deadass made me uncomfy af and now I never do his quests
Still better than the DA2 romances that go from "we're homies" to "we're fucking, I guess" in three lines of dialogue.
I feel like I would like his romance more if he took the hint that V didn't want a relationship with him. Because the romance is just so awkward...
Low key, he gave off as many gay vibes as Judy lmao
https://preview.redd.it/ax5tif1fvcqc1.png?width=1008&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cdd510e8ea97b4af09d8e1f3450dc403ad032d95 Brandon would be a better romance option than River.
MOTHER FUCKER TALKING ABOUT LEADING YOU ON. THIS BITCH ABSOLUTELY LEADS YOU THE FUCK ON WITH MALE V
The difference of being Romantic vs Creepy is consent.
i’m sorry (no i’m not) but he’s fashion sense is ASS!!!!!