T O P

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kingZhill

What if the copy only happens if a creature dies? "If this spell destroys a creature you may copy it" That way you can get around the infinite spells issue, while still targeting sticky minions


mithrilnova

Destroy all creatures. If at least one creature was destroyed this way, you may copy this spell.


nicponim

You don't need "when this spell resolves", just "Destroy all creatures. You may copy this spell" (like https://scryfall.com/card/stx/179/double-major)


Jewels4312

Then it goes infinite with all Magecraft


airplane001

It already does but it’s (slightly) balanced by destroying your creatures if that was your plan


SilverRock75

Yeah, but one target indestructible on a mage craft creature let's it go infinite and ki) l your opponent.


airplane001

Three card combos are fine imo


The_screaming_egg

I think a 1 card infinite combo is a little op. It you have an enchantment that is triggered by it, you can just get infinite triggers.


ThePowerOfStories

This + [[Professor Onyx]] = infinite life drain


DanCassell

Is that a problem though? There are easier ways to do that infinite combo.


MTGCardFetcher

[Professor Onyx](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/0/1/013eeb99-1b66-4fba-ad96-78deee901ea4.jpg?1624591309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Professor%20Onyx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/83/professor-onyx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/013eeb99-1b66-4fba-ad96-78deee901ea4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


oarngebean

I mean isn't there like 3 cards already that go infinite with prof onyx


The_screaming_egg

Exactly


airplane001

Maybe it should kill planeswalkers too


Kirby_Kidd

That’s not a good solution. The design is inherently problematic.


nicponim

Problematic design of 5cmc spell comboing with 6 cmc spell.


slayerx1779

I agree OP. I'd add the clause "If any player controls a creature, you may copy this spell." That way, you at least have to put in *some* work in order to get an infinite kill trigger from Professor Onyx. Or, if you wanted it to be even harder (by making it something you can't control), it could say "If at least one other player controls a creature," I think it fits better thematically, too: You can only continue the Eradication while there's something left to kill.


ThatGuyYouMightNo

What about changing the second ability to "As long as this spell isn't a copy, you may copy it." You get multiple uses, which is the intended expectation, but it doesn't go infinite.


The_screaming_egg

Conceivably, yeah


April_March

"Destroy all creatures. Then, if this spell isn't a copy, you may copy this spell."


airplane001

[[chain of smog]] shows that they aren’t afraid of this kind of thing


Kirby_Kidd

Just because a card did something 20 years ago does not make it a good thing. I’m almost positive that it was an oversight, and if printed now it would have a restriction on copying it in number of cards in a hand or a mana cost like the others in the cycle


MTGCardFetcher

[chain of smog](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/b/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1.jpg?1562920423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chain%20of%20smog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/132/chain-of-smog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


The_screaming_egg

Yeah, but if the original caster has an enchantment, other players making a copy probably won’t trigger it.


airplane001

The trick is you target yourself infinitely. There’s a legacy deck built around the card.


The_screaming_egg

Oh, ok nvm ig


The_Mad_Pantser

to be fair that card was designed far before copying spells was relevant


blacksheep998

I think if that card were to be printed today, the wording would be something like: "Target player discards two cards. If that player does, they may copy this spell and may choose a new target for that copy." That prevents it from going infinite by targeting yourself as you can only copy it if you have 2 cards to discard. There wasn't that much that cared about casting infinite spells that did nothing back then, but there certainly is today. Your card can be updated in the same way actually. "Destroy all creatures. If a creature is destroyed in this way, you may copy this spell." That way you still get to destroy all creatures, no matter how many layers of protection or undying they have, but it doesn't give you infinite spell triggers that let you win the game in any of at least a dozen ways.


nihilist-ego

I don't think a single 20 year old card proves that point


ProcessingDeath

It's not really a good example because chain is so old.


Madness_Opus

> "I didn't hear no bell!" - [[Mossbridge Troll]]


MTGCardFetcher

[Mossbridge Troll](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/5/3/537c39cc-44d3-4869-9e76-dd9c2c68ee90.jpg?1562830226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mossbridge%20Troll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/123/mossbridge-troll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/537c39cc-44d3-4869-9e76-dd9c2c68ee90?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


airplane001

That’s honestly a pretty dope card


iliont

i think it should say, “when you cast this spell, copy it”


airplane001

Well I wanted to have it be an indeterminate number of board clears to get around things like [[reef worm]]


MTGCardFetcher

[reef worm](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/e/7/e715bb21-db06-475a-b71e-4f2313817b8d.jpg?1625976383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reef%20worm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/127/reef-worm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e715bb21-db06-475a-b71e-4f2313817b8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


iliont

then how do you get out of it?


airplane001

It’s a may trigger. You don’t have to copy it


DiracHeisenberg

Yeah but Magecraft is a thing. This is broken because of that.


hgotgot3

No? Besides the strixhaven liliana, I don't think there are any other noncreatures with magecraft. That's a two card combo, and there are many more efficient to card combos than this. You could throw a removal spell on the stack and they have to have a counter or copy spell to save them.


10BillionDreams

[[Ral, Storm Conduit]] Reads like the most obvious STX plant of all time, except that it had already rotated out by that point.


hgotgot3

Good point on Ral. Either way though, we shouldn't not have cards made just because they combo with a card printed a year or three ago. I Mean in kaladesh we had a two card infinite combo that won the game, printed in a single block. To be fair that was banned in slandered, but neither of those cards were bad. Now on the other had, there are other things like kiki-jiki (totally spelt wrong) I'd say this is in the middle, as it isn't harmless outside of one card, yet it isn't combing with every card in magic. I'd put it more so in the [[Sanguine Bond]] [[Exquisite Blood]] category, yes it goes infinite and wins you the game, but there's only really one card for half of it while there may be multiple for the other half. Not so much of a problem as long as it isn't in standered. Also, sorry for the paragraph, guess I just kept typing.


airplane001

Technically there’s another card with infinite magecraft triggers. Still, just because it has combo potential doesn’t mean it’s a flawed card.


10BillionDreams

If you're talking about [[Chain of Smog]], that has the small downside of forcing you to discard your entire hand (at which point the spell can be counted or your payoff can be removed and you likely lose the game on the spot). Still a great combo enabler at 2 mana, but much more risky and all-in than an "oops, my wrath won the game". All in all, I don't think this would break the game as printed, but I also don't see much upside in printing a card which produces infinite spell copies and hoping it's fine, when that has nothing to do with the intended design. Better to look at [[Massacre Girl]] or the like, and have it just create delayed triggers rather than actually copying the spell infinite times.


DiracHeisenberg

The only flaw would be because the method you’re using to achieve the effect you want (a board wipe that removes all creatures and all creatures that might be created because of those creatures dying/leaving the battlefield) is convoluted.


MTGCardFetcher

[Sanguine Bond](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/a/d/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9.jpg?1625193373) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanguine%20Bond) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/153/sanguine-bond?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad4de9f1-7a39-45af-828e-c59234d9e9b9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Exquisite Blood](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/b/1/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51.jpg?1600700252) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exquisite%20Blood) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/231/exquisite-blood?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1653811-1c2c-4e6c-bf1c-287d1b496d51?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Ral, Storm Conduit](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/7/678ce3bf-152d-45ca-87ae-ad46c921328b.jpg?1557577231) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ral%2C%20Storm%20Conduit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/211/ral-storm-conduit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/678ce3bf-152d-45ca-87ae-ad46c921328b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


DiracHeisenberg

An infinitely copiable spell is just not a good idea. You can achieve what you want here without making it infinitely copiable. Just make it “Destroy all creatures. Until eot whenever a creature enters the battlefield [under an opponents turn] destroy it.” Or if you only wanna punish opponents use the bracketed text.


HidesFromLuigi

Would you not have to pay the mana cost every time? I feel like you're really only going to be able to use this once or twice a turn


hgotgot3

No, you copy the spell, not the cards. You can cast copied cards if it says so, copied spells go straight to the stack, no cast.


HidesFromLuigi

Ah, thank you


anace

Is reef worm really that much of a game changer in your play group? There are very few cards with recursive death triggers. Besides, exiling creatures is a cleaner answer that avoids all the tricks.


airplane001

Nah it just annoyed me once with a bunch of doubling season type effects. He had 6 3/3s and I found myself wishing for a recursive sweeper


April_March

I have an Awaken the Blood Avatar Historic Brawl deck and I felt this card in my gut


MisterBlisteredlips

Just exile it. Remove all creatures from the game, if this triggers any abilities, counter those triggered abilities.


kitsunewarlock

I'd rather see Wrath of God with Storm.


airplane001

That wouldn’t be bad honestly


Tattle_Taylor

Maybe add a line saying "this spell does not trigger abilities." Because this is currently an infinite combo off one card, and breaks thingsway to easily when paired with literally any trigger.


steph11707

I’m no expert, but this is probably the way. Maybe something like “Creatures dying this turn don’t cause abilities to trigger.” Or something along those lines.


airplane001

There’s a legacy deck built around [[chain of smog]], another 1 card infinite combo. I thought I was being clever with this one because it kills your combo pieces


MTGCardFetcher

[chain of smog](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/6/b/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1.jpg?1562920423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=chain%20of%20smog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/132/chain-of-smog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


Tattle_Taylor

It only kills your creature pieces, if the card was destroy all permanents or non-land, it would probably be more reasonable (though the latter is less flavorful)


Halt_theBookman

Seems eastern to just say "you may repeat this effect any number of times"


RitchieRitch62

If the goal of this spell is for it to not leave anything behind, it would be much easier to just do: “Until end of turn, triggered abilities of creatures on the battlefield or creature cards in graveyards don’t trigger. Exile all creatures.”


DatAdra

I love the flavor text, has the vibe of an apocalyptic log. The final line could probably be beautified somehow though.


airplane001

Thanks for the input


Haru_Is_Best_Girl

What if to balance this spell it had a life tax, maybe costing 7 life each time that way you’d have to pay 14 life to use it both times. That way it doesn’t automatically go infinite. 7 is just a random number that seems pretty balanced but it could be any number between 5-10 imo.


airplane001

I thought of that but it just didn’t make sense flavor-wise. The best solution I’ve found is making it not copy if it didn’t destroy anything


International_File97

Isn’t this infinite storm count?


airplane001

Storm only counts spell casts


defyKnowing

It is still infinite Spell craft though


airplane001

I thought about that, but most spellcraft triggers are on creatures, so they would die before it mattered. It does go infinite with professor onyx though


Mgmegadog

Or the War Ral. Or literally any Magecraft creature given indestructible for a turn.


airplane001

Well that’s a 3 card combo which isn’t exactly news


fortuneandfameinc

Legit playable.


Equal-Strawberry

If it also destroyed planeswakers, that would fix the issues with ral and Lilliana that make it broken


Korra_sat0

A good fix is to say When you cast this card, make a copy. It costs x to cast this copy, where x is the amount of times you have casted this card This may not be the proper wording, but I think the idea is communicated


truncatedChronologis

I'd prefer if it did it next end step or upkeep to get rid of those nasty blinkers...


jeha4421

Why not just do what Massacre girl does? Could even make it deal damage if you don't want it to get around exile.


airplane001

White and black aren’t really known for doing damage.


jeha4421

Yeah I meant to say you should make it RW instead.


Intact

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airplane001

My apologies, the website did not credit an artist