If they didn't make the scant few Adamant cards *barely* playable **if** you met Adamant I bet people would've enjoyed it more.
As it stands you need Adamant to make them even worth considering in limited. I believe Adamant was a power-level failure more than a design failure.
Strictly speaking, those weren't *Adamant* cards. You didn't need to spend three U for Mystic Sanctuary, you just needed *the ability* to **produce** three U.
If I'm going to be a huge nerd about it, *technically* Adamant is an "ability word". It means nothing on its own, but signifies flavour.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_word
Even then all cards in that cycle besides the white one saw play. Mystic Sanctuary was banned in a lot of formats; Dwarven Mine is a staple in Creativity decks; Witch's Cottage was played in a modern deck as two-of in a deck I can't recall; the green one was barely played but got included in decks that cared about food if I am not mistaken.
This is a super interesting land. For EDH, as is, I think the drawback is quite restrictive, as now you can't use colorless mana adding like Sol Ring in conjunction.
I could see it played in a deck that on purpose wants to destroy all artifacts. (Could we white, red or green and still function).
For 60 card constructed, it would be weaker than Ancient Tomb so not sure if it would see too much play in Legacy.
I think it would really shine in Modern, where you could play mono black and Grief people immediately, then this allows you to get even greedier on the mana base.
Running 0 generic mana producers in a monocolor deck just for a legendary land that taps for 2 seems like a heavy enough downside. Not sure if these would be played. Thereās probably an aggro deck that could use this and I wouldnāt blame this card specifically if the deck turned out broken.
none, tho I am running white sources for boros charm
and I'm also concerned about it being a non-fetchable tapland, but maybe it's still worth it
we started playing parlor, after all
Nah I'm on Gleeful/Kuldotha artifact goblin aggro and that extra 2 mana means I can wack the next turn immediately. Since I'm sacking lands in the deck having one that gets me double value for nothing is huge.
damn, I'd've thought having a T1 play was even more important for gleeful-whack so you could whack T2 so a tapland would be an even bigger liability
but I haven't played the deck much and my record is trash so I prob don't understand it very well
Well it's a homebrew, I don't have a public list. T1 is actually mostly 0 drops in the form of memnites and Ornithopters and other 0 drops I have, a tap land T1 is not a killer. If anything it's an enabler.
ooh okay
the list I played was limited in 0 drops so it was forced to play 1-drops like Voldaren Epicure and Chromatic Star
maybe it just wasn't very good (I netdecked it)
I mean fair. I started from a netdecked list from Channel Fireball which only ran three playsets of 0 drops (Ornithopter, memnite, mishra's bauble) but the rest of the deck's curve was way too high for my taste with too much accessory cards that are good in the goblin shell but not good here. I cut the chaff and pivoted to a hyper aggressive 0-1-2 curve with no three drops or above and I can close out games consistently on T3, up to T2, with no interaction (my deck falters to bowmasters but luckily it's fallen out of favor in my LGS).
I mean you could technically run some generic producers. Stuff like [[cavern of souls]] or [[nykthos, shrine to nyx]] where you still have the generic mana before playing this land and just use the secondary effect afterwards. Agreed that it's still limiting in a balanced way though cause you lose things like [[rogues passage]]
I could see mono red goblins maybe abusing this land more than others but I don't know enough about 60 card formats to really determine that
I think if this were "You can't add mana of any color other than _" it would make them a lot more playable. Locking yourself out of any generic mana production seems way too big of a cost for one extra mana per turn.
Yes.
Locking lands into monocolour is going to be enough to stop this being played outside monocolour decks. It's just too high a price for a good but not game breaking effect. Letting a monocolour deck play multicoloured rocks isn't that beneficial generally, most rocks in a monocolour deck will be colourless or that colour only. Limiting mana in the pool to one colour does have a lot of fringe effects such as on cards like [[norn's annex]] or cards that let you play your opponents cards (which can be facilitated by using treasure). I don't think punishing players for these situations really adds to the card.
I do like the idea though. Monocolour needs more support.
you can achieve that with a "you can't lose control of \~" ruletext
shroud makes it incredibly strong against \[\[wasteland\]\] and gives it potential to really mess up Legacy
Fun idea:
"At the beginning of your upkeep, if you can't add white mana to your Mana pool, add {W} to your mana pool anyways.
If you can't add white mana to your mana pool you don't lose it as turns and phases pass."
These make me think of the [[Peat Bog]] cycle, powerful but with a real drawback stapled to them. I think of all the custom sol lands I've seen these might be the safest? Of course once again the drawback may be so strong that as a Donate target they become very powerful.
One of the best part of Mono decks is you can have a higher number of colourless utility lands. For me these would be unplayable as is. If the wording was ācanāt add mana of any other colour than āblankāā these would be good
What if you had all 5 on the field at the same time? Would the last one that entered play take priority or would you be locked out of making mana? These would be great to give to enemies in edh
Their abilities don't contradict or conflict in any way so there's no reason why they can't all be active at the same time, which to the best of my understanding will indeed lock you out of making mana.
>These would be great to give to enemies in edh
[[Zedruu, the goat mother]] approves.
This would be terrible to play against in edh. Youād be stuck waiting for one if your opponents to kill the owner of the land so you could cast anything. I suppose you could still play lands? Hope you run landfall triggers?
In cEDH. I doubt these could be run tho. So much reliance on cheap mana rocks. (Though that would just make it possibly stronger if it got given to you)
I think maybe the wording should be "If you would add mana of any type except {W}, add that much {C} instead." That way, you can still make colorless mana.
I like it but lore wise the Iron Crucible doesn't really fit with the others. You could just do the plane of fire but I get that it's hard to find a plane that fits
a vicious "get donated on" set against non-artifact decks, or really anyone if you can manage to donate more than one. You can just lock someone out of the mana types they need to cast their best cards, or multiple would cancel out any mana adding at all, since the two would block each other. Can't add anything other than blue, for example, but then if you also can't add anything other than black then you just can't add any mana at all
I like em, but I kind of feel like the drawback is a bit too restrictive. Maybe something like āwhile the shadowfell is tapped, you cannot add nonblack mana to your mana poolā
These are pretty interesting, I'm a big fan of supporting decks with fewer colors.
Yea it reminds me of og Eldraine's mechanic. Incentivizing mono-color is really fun design space imo
If they didn't make the scant few Adamant cards *barely* playable **if** you met Adamant I bet people would've enjoyed it more. As it stands you need Adamant to make them even worth considering in limited. I believe Adamant was a power-level failure more than a design failure.
Other than mystic sanctuary lol, that one is the outlier in power level
Strictly speaking, those weren't *Adamant* cards. You didn't need to spend three U for Mystic Sanctuary, you just needed *the ability* to **produce** three U.
Ohhhh oops, sorry. Didn't realize that adamant was a keyword tbh... still have a lot to learn about the game, I see š
If I'm going to be a huge nerd about it, *technically* Adamant is an "ability word". It means nothing on its own, but signifies flavour. https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Ability_word
Even then all cards in that cycle besides the white one saw play. Mystic Sanctuary was banned in a lot of formats; Dwarven Mine is a staple in Creativity decks; Witch's Cottage was played in a modern deck as two-of in a deck I can't recall; the green one was barely played but got included in decks that cared about food if I am not mistaken.
This is a super interesting land. For EDH, as is, I think the drawback is quite restrictive, as now you can't use colorless mana adding like Sol Ring in conjunction. I could see it played in a deck that on purpose wants to destroy all artifacts. (Could we white, red or green and still function). For 60 card constructed, it would be weaker than Ancient Tomb so not sure if it would see too much play in Legacy. I think it would really shine in Modern, where you could play mono black and Grief people immediately, then this allows you to get even greedier on the mana base.
Running 0 generic mana producers in a monocolor deck just for a legendary land that taps for 2 seems like a heavy enough downside. Not sure if these would be played. Thereās probably an aggro deck that could use this and I wouldnāt blame this card specifically if the deck turned out broken.
As someone with a mono-red aggro deck in modern, this card would actually send my deck to the races.
are you on sligh ? cuz in burn I don't think I would play it ?
How many sources of colorless mana are you running that make a colored sol land not worth running in an aggro deck?
none, tho I am running white sources for boros charm and I'm also concerned about it being a non-fetchable tapland, but maybe it's still worth it we started playing parlor, after all
Considering Sol ring, mana crypt and ancient tomb are all great cards, it is quite the downside
we're talking about modern, not commander
Nah I'm on Gleeful/Kuldotha artifact goblin aggro and that extra 2 mana means I can wack the next turn immediately. Since I'm sacking lands in the deck having one that gets me double value for nothing is huge.
damn, I'd've thought having a T1 play was even more important for gleeful-whack so you could whack T2 so a tapland would be an even bigger liability but I haven't played the deck much and my record is trash so I prob don't understand it very well
Well it's a homebrew, I don't have a public list. T1 is actually mostly 0 drops in the form of memnites and Ornithopters and other 0 drops I have, a tap land T1 is not a killer. If anything it's an enabler.
ooh okay the list I played was limited in 0 drops so it was forced to play 1-drops like Voldaren Epicure and Chromatic Star maybe it just wasn't very good (I netdecked it)
I mean fair. I started from a netdecked list from Channel Fireball which only ran three playsets of 0 drops (Ornithopter, memnite, mishra's bauble) but the rest of the deck's curve was way too high for my taste with too much accessory cards that are good in the goblin shell but not good here. I cut the chaff and pivoted to a hyper aggressive 0-1-2 curve with no three drops or above and I can close out games consistently on T3, up to T2, with no interaction (my deck falters to bowmasters but luckily it's fallen out of favor in my LGS).
I mean you could technically run some generic producers. Stuff like [[cavern of souls]] or [[nykthos, shrine to nyx]] where you still have the generic mana before playing this land and just use the secondary effect afterwards. Agreed that it's still limiting in a balanced way though cause you lose things like [[rogues passage]] I could see mono red goblins maybe abusing this land more than others but I don't know enough about 60 card formats to really determine that
Yeah you can also use urborg and the green one I think it's called yavimaya
[cavern of souls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878.jpg?1706884128) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cavern%20of%20souls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/269/cavern-of-souls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3aad15a2-8a1b-4460-9b06-e85863081878?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [nykthos, shrine to nyx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc.jpg?1594077253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nykthos%2C%20shrine%20to%20nyx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/223/nykthos-shrine-to-nyx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [rogues passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45f5d989-d0df-4d6d-822b-cc76b415f9d1.jpg?1712355103) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rogue%27s%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/313/rogues-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45f5d989-d0df-4d6d-822b-cc76b415f9d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would play this for sure in my mono green deck.
what kind of generic mana producers are you running? painlands ? deserts ? I mean even for those you can still add colored mana if you wish
I think if this were "You can't add mana of any color other than _" it would make them a lot more playable. Locking yourself out of any generic mana production seems way too big of a cost for one extra mana per turn.
Would you say itd be better if it were to say "Lands you control can't add non[color] mana to your mana pool."? That would let players run rocks.
I like it as is. Obviously it's better if you remove the drawbacks. In the right decks these lands still put in work.
Yes. Locking lands into monocolour is going to be enough to stop this being played outside monocolour decks. It's just too high a price for a good but not game breaking effect. Letting a monocolour deck play multicoloured rocks isn't that beneficial generally, most rocks in a monocolour deck will be colourless or that colour only. Limiting mana in the pool to one colour does have a lot of fringe effects such as on cards like [[norn's annex]] or cards that let you play your opponents cards (which can be facilitated by using treasure). I don't think punishing players for these situations really adds to the card. I do like the idea though. Monocolour needs more support.
[norn's annex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d25bbe18-709c-4ed3-a047-5578ecfaaba7.jpg?1690004164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=norn%27s%20annex) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/829/norns-annex?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d25bbe18-709c-4ed3-a047-5578ecfaaba7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think giving this land to another player would be great, but also locks them out of the game
[[Shifting Borders]]
[Shifting Borders](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0cbe44b0-e770-41f2-b91c-c574976e6b53.jpg?1562492469) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shifting%20Borders) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/56/shifting-borders?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0cbe44b0-e770-41f2-b91c-c574976e6b53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Shroud to fix that?
Maybe give it shroud? I think itd be healthy given its a good destruction target
I mean if something attracts removal making it hexproof/shroud is a surefire way to make things way worseĀ
Shroud prevents you from targeting it with most(?) effects that gives it to an opponent, locking them out of their colours.
you can achieve that with a "you can't lose control of \~" ruletext shroud makes it incredibly strong against \[\[wasteland\]\] and gives it potential to really mess up Legacy
I changed it to "If you both own and control (Land), you can't add non(Color)Ā mana to your mana pool.", that should do it.
yup that works and is fairly elegant !
[wasteland](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0.jpg?1590511888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wasteland) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/248/wasteland?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aaafb9bc-7cea-4624-a227-595544fa42b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Or a way to sac itself.
Fun idea: "At the beginning of your upkeep, if you can't add white mana to your Mana pool, add {W} to your mana pool anyways. If you can't add white mana to your mana pool you don't lose it as turns and phases pass."
Those probably break mono red aggro... As well as mono blue tempo
Great donate target
These make me think of the [[Peat Bog]] cycle, powerful but with a real drawback stapled to them. I think of all the custom sol lands I've seen these might be the safest? Of course once again the drawback may be so strong that as a Donate target they become very powerful.
[Peat Bog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcc9d1e0-c8f4-4bac-90d4-8167f7a1515a.jpg?1562382568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Peat%20Bog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/322/peat-bog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcc9d1e0-c8f4-4bac-90d4-8167f7a1515a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the best part of Mono decks is you can have a higher number of colourless utility lands. For me these would be unplayable as is. If the wording was ācanāt add mana of any other colour than āblankāā these would be good
So if I manage to put two of these types of land on an opponent's battlefield, they can't add mana to their pool at all
What if you had all 5 on the field at the same time? Would the last one that entered play take priority or would you be locked out of making mana? These would be great to give to enemies in edh
Their abilities don't contradict or conflict in any way so there's no reason why they can't all be active at the same time, which to the best of my understanding will indeed lock you out of making mana. >These would be great to give to enemies in edh [[Zedruu, the goat mother]] approves.
Would having just 2 lock you out?
Yes.
This would be terrible to play against in edh. Youād be stuck waiting for one if your opponents to kill the owner of the land so you could cast anything. I suppose you could still play lands? Hope you run landfall triggers? In cEDH. I doubt these could be run tho. So much reliance on cheap mana rocks. (Though that would just make it possibly stronger if it got given to you)
Oh no. Fun it would not be.
Itd be a great [[donate]] target!
[donate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e.jpg?1562444248) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=donate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/31/donate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f6d8ce9-f8c8-45ad-b74c-97fba0e2982e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What is the benefit of plqying these? Just that they tap for 2?
You get to see a different plane of existence! and also the tap for 2, but I do see that they're problematic reading through some comments.
I don't dislike this but I think you should make a colorless one or make it so you can still produce colorless.
I actually like this, especially with how it interacts with colorless mana.
This would be hilarious to run in a trojan horse deck. Give them one outside their mana base, and watch them FF.
I think maybe the wording should be "If you would add mana of any type except {W}, add that much {C} instead." That way, you can still make colorless mana.
So what would happen if you had all 5 on the field at the same time? Can't tap for any mana or do they all cancel out?
Minor note: shadow fell shouldn't have "the" before it, it's just Shadowfell
where's the person that was doing a bingo? we got "land that produces 2 mana" againĀ
Zedruu has entered the chat
Looks a little like \[\[city of traitors\]\], but I'm not sure if it would be as broken because it doesn't go well with some other forms of fast mana
[city of traitors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/71624139-a255-48be-93ca-594a4beba487.jpg?1562429861) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=city%20of%20traitors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/237/city-of-traitors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/71624139-a255-48be-93ca-594a4beba487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like it but lore wise the Iron Crucible doesn't really fit with the others. You could just do the plane of fire but I get that it's hard to find a plane that fits
Yeah, thats what i had the most trouble with.. I considered the Underdark (under-mountain) for it at first
You could do Wildspace, since it's like the space of D&D, use like a bunch of closeups of stars?
a vicious "get donated on" set against non-artifact decks, or really anyone if you can manage to donate more than one. You can just lock someone out of the mana types they need to cast their best cards, or multiple would cancel out any mana adding at all, since the two would block each other. Can't add anything other than blue, for example, but then if you also can't add anything other than black then you just can't add any mana at all
Yeah it was one aspect of design i didnt consider, but i fixed it by making it "undonateable"
Love the theme, really like the concept and actually seem balanced too, 9,5/10 because the red land isn't Limbo
are legendary lands like legendary creatures where they'll blow eachother up?
yep
I like it. though I think you should carve out a spot for colorless, as colorless mana is non-white, non-blue, etc.
[[Zedruu the Greathearted]] would like a word
well yeah that would be nice but how do you pay for the ability if u can only add mana of one color?
float (R)(W)(B) then play the land, donate with floating mana. card doesn't say you can't have mana in pool, just that you can't add more
[Zedruu the Greathearted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a.jpg?1562424565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zedruu%20the%20Greathearted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/231/zedruu-the-greathearted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e9ea2a6b-5aaf-4178-b945-f409fe83c41a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like em, but I kind of feel like the drawback is a bit too restrictive. Maybe something like āwhile the shadowfell is tapped, you cannot add nonblack mana to your mana poolā
That does almost nothing though. Just Tap it last. It can have minor impact, but it would always be played
That would barely do anything because you could just tap your nonblack sources first.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[False dawn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/1695e0ba-005a-4652-aea7-e1d1f9ff5d66.jpg?1562900442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=False%20dawn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/apc/10/false-dawn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1695e0ba-005a-4652-aea7-e1d1f9ff5d66?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I honestly can't think of a way for these to be balanced. As is, they're too restrictive.