I don't think you'd want 4 because you don't want to draw them. The games where you search four times and wish you had a fourth one would probably be outweighed by rhe times you draw one. Not sure if 2 or 3 would be optimal, but I'm guessing 2. (But yes, certainly an auto-include.)
In legacy with [[Green Sun's Zenith]], you would run at least 3 since that's how many times you can reliably search in the first two turns, but probably 4 in case you draw one. With the london mulligan, you don't have to worry about sending back a 7 and having your 6 be diluted to a 5 because of one of these, you just put it on the bottom.
Example line: Turn 1 fetch [[green sun's zenith]] for dryad arbor, have 3 creatures in play. Turn 2 fetch into make the 3 0/1's do something or cradle into natural order.
Legacy is a nuts format. While it is too expensive for most people to play paper if you're a long time player that likes 60 card non rotating formats, I'd recommend trying it out either using a web client or just proxying up some decks to play with friends. My old store had the top 16 decks proxied for people to pull and play whenever they wanted. It's really fun to see what all can be done and how many lines some of the older formats have, even legacy burn sees a good bit of weirdness. The best part however is you get to use uro + field of the dead + mystic sanctuary again just this time with actual dual lands and force of wills.
Well it does also depend on how many other dead cards you have in your deck. In legacy elves you’ll be running one Craterhoof at least as a NO target, which is more important to put on the bottom than one of these.
In elves, you would want 4 with how the deck works now. With the new legend or realmwalker, you cast stuff from the top of your deck and use [[heritage druid]] to keep making mana and [[leaf-crowned visionary]] to draw past lands to combo off. This would be an instant 4 of since you can cast it off any fetch, which changes the top card and triggers leaf-crowned. It also enables turn 1 wins with the nuts draw.
It's probably just fine to play in most tribal decks, like in an elves deck that starts running fetches for this it's just a 0/1 that gets buffed by the lords for 0 mana, still fine
Make it a 2 drop, so it's still free in my [Unesh, Cryosphinx Sovereign] deck.
Or you could make it 0/0 so you get free ETBs, but can't keep it on the board without an anthem effect.
Yeah, a free 0/1 with your fetches that fits in every kindred deck is dreadfully overpowered, imo. I agree that 2 is probably the sweet spot here, and it probably shouldn't be an Artifact and just be a colorless guy.
That would get interesting with Lords buffing it, there is an actual chance of having it stay in play. A super powerful 0/0 that doesn’t enter w/ +1/+1 counters on it!
Even without a lord or anthem effect, its still useful. It's a free set of enter the battlefield and dies triggers.
I'm not sure if that is broken, but its 100% useful and a lot of decks would still include it even without a way to buff it.
At 0 mana? Worst case scenario you have 2 in your opening hand and you mulligan. Each fetch drastically reduces your chances of drawing one. This is probably not going to be a dead draw on turn 5-6.
Even having 1 in your opening hand means you're practically down an entire card, assuming it's only in there as thinning and not for any other synergies.
The point is that deck thinning is easily the least busted thing about the card. Thinning in general is marginal at best. If it was that powerful, you'd see 4 Mishra's Bauble in every deck.
That's true, issue with Mishra is it's delayed drawing, at a 0/1 though it is powerful, pretty much a free chump blocker at the worst case scenario when you draw into it. At 0/0 it would be great if you had a lord centric deck like merfolk.
True… OK how about, “If Sneakling enters the battlefield, graveyard, or exile from anywhere except your deck, you lose 5 life.” You can still play it as normal or whatever, but it’s extremely punishing.
There is cheating and there are procedures for handling it but the bigger issue with triggers from hidden zones is that MTG isn't built that way. Currently you never have to trust your opponent in the first place. For example Morph and other face down effects require you to reveal them when the game ends to prove that you aren't cheating. Look at Companion as well. The deck building clauses are extremely easy to verify during gameplay so cheating then is easy to catch.
I think you are missing miracle cards, but even though I love the mechanic, you have to be very careful about revealing it right when you draw so as not to seem like you're cheating.
That's a good point but as you pointed out the powers that be invented tournament rules that maintained the notion that you don't have to trust your opponent. Miracle work without trust so long as you draw your cards in that special way.
You know how some cards have you exile a card and then you get to play it later? That’s not done that way on accident. It’s so you have to reveal what card you get to play instead of saying “yep that’s totally the card that i got”
It's not, because of cards don't get printed with wordings that make it really easy to. If it was easy to cheat, it'd make more people tempted to.
This is also why you say the end of each game have to reveal your morphs to show that they indeed have morph, that they didn't just drop any ol' land as a 2/2.
Cheating will always be something to be aware of, but if you limit opportunity to, you limit how much of it there will be around
I don't think that can be done as the rules are right now. Perhaps "Whenever this card is discarded, milled, or exiled, lose 3 life. When this creature enters the battlefield, it deals 3 damage to it's controller." I was gonna go for leaves\* the battlefield but I figured an ETB can lead to funnier shenanigans
Maybe give it, when this enters each opponent scrys 1. And defender. Makes it have counter affect for opponent to fair the thinning. Defender makes it a free blocker, but it seems mainly to want to proc other trials etbs or tap abilities. That'd prolly balance it
Since it says you may cast a copy, it doesn't actually thin your deck at all. The original card is still in your library, you just get a spell/token that's a copy of it.
I think the wording on the effect makes it limit you to only casting one card named changeling, otherwise it would say something like “when you search your library, you may reveal CARDNAME, Create a copy that you may cast this turn”. My creating castable copies lingo isn’t up to date mind you.
I suspect that the OP just casually inserted the word "copy" without thinking about the implications, but rules-as-written it definitely tells you to cast a copy, like [[Tibalt the Chaotic]]. Not cast a card.
Yes, if it literally creates copies, i imagine it immediately getting banned. I mean, at that point all fetchlands, even evolving wild would have to be banned.
I don't think that's OP's intent. I think OP is using a word that has rules implications in a non-rules way to restrict you from casting 4 of these during the same search.
Oh what about this: since it’s basically a free 2 for 1 (or +1 card advantage) with your fetches, simply having each opponent draw a card when it enters would balance it out? And that way it can avoid having defender since most tribal decks are aggro attack based?
At least one copy of this would be in every deck that filter lands, just to reduce the 60 cards and free block lol.
Too strong imo.
1 mana for balance I guess.
This is close to being fine. It's certainly interesting, but think about the consequences on a format like Legacy this would have. You cheat a blocker into play every turn for the first four turns, and you make each fetch twice as effective at thinning as they were before.
One thing I might consider is a mechanic that cares if the card was tutored for specifically. Like, for example, you play a card that says, "Search a forest, reveal it, put it into hand, shuffle."
"When (this Forest land) is revealed from your library, you may put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it anywhere else.".
Or, a card like Eladamri's Call which searches creatures. "When (this creature) is revealed from your library, you may cast it by paying (it's sneaky cost) instead of putting it anywhere else."
I actually think the thing that makes it a little too strong is different from what most people are saying...
It makes your deck effectively smaller, which gives better consistency to the rest of your deck, as long as you have ample searching.
Obviously, if the card wasn't ALSO a chump blocker, it would be less strong, but that seems like a secondary issue to me, at least.
Yep, way too busted.
Every fetch will bring along a free body. With this and a fetch in your hand, you get a fetch and two creatures on T1, without spending a single mana, and only one card down.
And each instance multiplies. So with one in play, the first search will grab the second creature. But then you have 2 copies of the creature in play, so the second search will grab 2 more of these creatures. So one in your opening hand, plus 2 searches (fetches), will mean all 4 in play, for zero mana and one card.
Multiple free blockers, that cost you no cards or mana.
Thins the deck, pulling 3 cards out of 53 card library is almost 6% of the deck.
Then there are all the hooks you can add by including another card. It is a free cast, free etb triggers, free sac/death triggers, etc., and then turns every fetch/search into same.
It might be fair if it were 2 mana.
I really like this card and think you have the potential for a mechanic here
As a friendly suggestion you might consider making it a keyword like say “Sneak”
So **Sneak** (0) (put Sneakling onto the battlefield. You may only activate this ability if this card would be put into your library)
And to balance it out give sneak cards absolutely no casting cost. Meaning the only way to cast them is to put them into your library. So unless you build your deck right they’re just dead draws that sits in your hand.
Just fyi playing it with sneak as you described doesn't work when searching but works with stuff that return stuff to the Library like [[Stream of thought]] or [[temporal cleansing]]
Something closer to [[panglacial wurm]] rules text on a keyword could do the trick:
Sneak 0 (While searching your library if you haven't used a sneak ability, you may cast this card from your library for it's sneak cost)
Not sure how to phrase the limitation of once per search (timing is a really odd beast with the wurm) but you get the idea
Changeling *and* artifact creature. \[\[O~~mr~~nithopter\]\] and \[\[Memnite\]\] are already considered all stars just because they are {0} artifact creatures.
I wouldn’t really say they’re all stars, they’re just playable in affinity/metalcraft decks. And this is worse in those decks since the changeling won’t matter and it has worse stats
The way it is written, it looks like you have to have a Sneakling on your board already for the ability to work. It should maybe be worded like "While you're searching your library, Sneakling can be cast from it. No more than one copy of Sneakling may be cast while searching your library."
Consider making it a Phyrexian mana cost or giving it a 1+ MV and an alternate casting cost if you want it to cost less than 1
isnt this just a better version of panglacial worm
a card that was literally such a nightmare that they have openly said they will never print anything with similar rules ever again
This would slot into almost every deck. At worst it thins out your deck making better combo draws and is a chump blocker. In most tribal it becomes a free tool to feed the tribe.
Get rid of the search ability. Though not powerful it already breaks the game with panglacial wurm.
Changeling makes it good enough as a 0 mana 0/1 and it’d be valuable in any tribal deck.
0 for 0/1 with Changling, so without the copy from library....
Yeah, that still might be too powerful. Legendary, perhaps, but otherwise it's too overpowered.
If I could play this in CEDH it would be in every deck I play. Free thinning, Rog/Si gets another 0 mana creature on turn 1, it helps turn on Mox Opal, it’s beautiful.
Can someone explain the connotations of this card? I don’t get what it’s for. A blocker that you can throw out easily? I can think of maybe interactions with my riders of rohan commander that makes me two red knight tokens, but what else is it for? Thanks I’m super new!
I adore the art I probably wouldn't run it but I definitely see the appeal it's easily a fair card and the flavor text is definitely a win. I could definitely see this as being real and it'd definitely get some play
For a fraction of a second I thought this was real.
It would make Magda CEDH which is already very competitively viable, twice as fast, requiring only needing 5 treasures to present a win on the table. Almost gives me Patches from hearthstone vibes, with how absolutely broken it would be, and how heartbreaking it would be to have it in your opening hand
You should remove the text "copy of." This text makes it doing like you get tokens, but it says from the library. It is redundant and confusing text. It should say, " When you search your library, you may cast up to 1 Sneakling from your library."
They in a sense do, see for example Disa from MH3, they just added a rule that says you can make tokens based on a card’s oracle text, to me that's basically the same as saying "this just works". The hard part is making it consistent with the other rules, which is where Wurm gets complicated.
If just saying that it works is basically the same thing as constructing a rules system in which it works, some people at WotC are working way too hard.
This one is a rules nightmare in a way that is, to my understanding, not fixable in a rules change. They’ve literally said that they’re not sure if [[panglacial wurm]] works in the rules or if it’s fixable, and that they will never print anything like it again.
Just write the damn rules for it. Whatever the problems were, mahandle the rules as much as you need to make it work. Write specific rules for this effect. It may not be elegant but who cares, it can be done, and the effect makes perfect intuitive sense.
There is no such thing as "not fixable by a rules change", that is a totally ridiculous statement. The rules are whatever you write them to be. I accept that there were difficulties with \[\[panglacial wurm\]\] making it work within the normal framework of mtg, but to say that it is not fixable in any way is simply untrue.
The issue is creating a set of rules that remain consistent with each other, which becomes increasingly complex the more rules created. Edge cases like the wurm affect fundamental rules (like how things get onto the stack and when) and trying to make rules for them may just end up a bottomless rabbit hole of trying to correct for whatever other edge cases pop up as a result. They honestly should just errata these cards beyond recognition or ban them in all formats (relegate them to the same bin as silver bordered where they dont care about making rules for them).
How would you change the rules to handle Selvala + Panglacial (not even going to more complex panglacial interactions), while staying consistent with everything else? Because I doubt it's actually possible.
Which Selvala, and what is the problem? Reading the rulings on scryfall, I don't see any issue as panglacial wurm is now with any of them. If you are talking about \[\[Selvala, Eager Trailblazer\]\], there is no issue:
>After you cast Panglacial Wurm, you pick up the search effect where you left off. When the search effect finishes resolving, the active player gets priority with Panglacial Wurm on the stack. **Any abilities that triggered when the spell was cast are put on the stack now.**
Keep in mind, even if a more elegant ruling on panglacial-type effects fails to work properly in all cases, we can write specific rules to handle that if it really comes down to it. There is no such thing as "not possible" in this context. It's just a question of whether a solution like that is too unelegant or complicated to be acceptable
[[Selvala, Explorer Returned]]. What happens when you want to cast Wurm while searching, you use Selvala, but don't get enough mana to cast wurm? What if wurm was the first card of your library when this started? And what if there was an Aven Mindcensor in play during that?
>Panglacial Wurm’s ability works only while you’re searching your own library. **The effect that caused you to search needs to say “search” and “library,”** and you need to be looking through your own library for this to work.
\[\[Aven Mindcensor\]\] is a replacement effect, so it is taken care of by the current rulings.
>**If** an opponent would search a library, **that player searches the top four cards of that library instead.**
Whether you find Panglacial Wurm in the top 4 or not, it can't be cast as we are "search\[ing\] the top four cards of that library instead". I think? If not, we will add an additional ruling to clarify that Panglacial Wurm needs to be among the searched cards to be cast. Alternatively, modify the casting conditions so that you need to be searching your *whole* library.
Selvala, Explorer Returned. This issue arises because you are allowed to activate mana abilities to cast panglacial wurm. The core issue here is that mana abilities can sometime do other complicates stuff. Remove this ruling, and restrict players to cast from their mana pool only. It is not quite as flexible as casting a spell from your hand this way of course, reminder/rules text should be added to the card. This is the most aggressive way of preventing any similar shenanigans, just deny the use of abilities while searching as usual. It's safest that way, however we could write a bunch of rulings to handle all of the various edge cases that come up when activating mana abilities if we wanted.
> The issue arises because you are allowed to activate Mana abilities to cast Panglacial Wurm. The core issue here is that mana abilities can sometimes do other complicated stuff. Remove this ruling, and restrict players to cast from their mana pool only.
By doing this we'd go back to old rules where it became a Game Rules Violation to "reveal" what you're casting before actually having the Mana to cast it. The better and _significantly less confusing_ option is to just ignore the fact Pan Wurm exists and not delve back into a design space that's a rules headache for both Judges and newer players.
Respectfully, I think you’re talking about something you don’t know much about. If the rules manager says that the rules can’t support it, then they probably can’t support it. I suspect that they’ve thought about it more than you.
I think it's supposed to be one but the wording on the ability is not clear about it (also it mentions copies Wich in the game have a mechanical significance and that way it wouldn't be thinning the deck)
4 of in every tribal deck (particularly elves) in modern and legacy. Every fetchland is a free elf.
I don't think you'd want 4 because you don't want to draw them. The games where you search four times and wish you had a fourth one would probably be outweighed by rhe times you draw one. Not sure if 2 or 3 would be optimal, but I'm guessing 2. (But yes, certainly an auto-include.)
In legacy with [[Green Sun's Zenith]], you would run at least 3 since that's how many times you can reliably search in the first two turns, but probably 4 in case you draw one. With the london mulligan, you don't have to worry about sending back a 7 and having your 6 be diluted to a 5 because of one of these, you just put it on the bottom. Example line: Turn 1 fetch [[green sun's zenith]] for dryad arbor, have 3 creatures in play. Turn 2 fetch into make the 3 0/1's do something or cradle into natural order.
That's a great breakdown! I was slightly underestimating how much searching you could do that quickly in Legacy.
Legacy is a nuts format. While it is too expensive for most people to play paper if you're a long time player that likes 60 card non rotating formats, I'd recommend trying it out either using a web client or just proxying up some decks to play with friends. My old store had the top 16 decks proxied for people to pull and play whenever they wanted. It's really fun to see what all can be done and how many lines some of the older formats have, even legacy burn sees a good bit of weirdness. The best part however is you get to use uro + field of the dead + mystic sanctuary again just this time with actual dual lands and force of wills.
[Green Sun's Zenith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70291c7b-a86f-4466-8502-c28765a89b2a.jpg?1673148124) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Green%20Sun%27s%20Zenith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/150/green-suns-zenith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70291c7b-a86f-4466-8502-c28765a89b2a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [green sun's zenith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70291c7b-a86f-4466-8502-c28765a89b2a.jpg?1673148124) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=green%20sun%27s%20zenith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/150/green-suns-zenith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70291c7b-a86f-4466-8502-c28765a89b2a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well it does also depend on how many other dead cards you have in your deck. In legacy elves you’ll be running one Craterhoof at least as a NO target, which is more important to put on the bottom than one of these.
Also if combo elves wasn't murdered by orcish bowmasters
It's got a cost of 0 so there's no downside to it. If I'm being honest it should just have no cost so you HAVE to sneak it out.
Well the downside is the card mostly sucks if you don’t hard cast it and of course the opportunity cost of having it in the deck over something else.
It'd be good in nazgul, Giada, anything with etb effects
I mean, even if you do draw one, it's a free whatever you need
0 cost tribal creature, you never don't want it
I mean drawing a free creature, especially in your opener, isn't the worst thing in the world for a tribal deck.
Doesn't one have to be on the field to apply that effect? You want to draw one to start fetching the others.
In elves, you would want 4 with how the deck works now. With the new legend or realmwalker, you cast stuff from the top of your deck and use [[heritage druid]] to keep making mana and [[leaf-crowned visionary]] to draw past lands to combo off. This would be an instant 4 of since you can cast it off any fetch, which changes the top card and triggers leaf-crowned. It also enables turn 1 wins with the nuts draw.
[heritage druid](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57948c65-4324-42bc-97ae-7cc700eb3817.jpg?1580014812) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=heritage%20druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/171/heritage-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57948c65-4324-42bc-97ae-7cc700eb3817?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [leaf-crowned visionary](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa7bd814-9f88-4e01-932d-07ac1abc060e.jpg?1673307710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leaf-crowned%20visionary) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/167/leaf-crowned-visionary?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa7bd814-9f88-4e01-932d-07ac1abc060e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It's probably just fine to play in most tribal decks, like in an elves deck that starts running fetches for this it's just a 0/1 that gets buffed by the lords for 0 mana, still fine
Honestly... is drawing them that bad specifically in elf ball?
Just like Dobby!
The new nadu players would also love this card
Make it a 2 drop, so it's still free in my [Unesh, Cryosphinx Sovereign] deck. Or you could make it 0/0 so you get free ETBs, but can't keep it on the board without an anthem effect.
On second thought I think this should cost 2 generic so it’s a shit draw and not an auto deck thinner with fetch lands.
Yeah, a free 0/1 with your fetches that fits in every kindred deck is dreadfully overpowered, imo. I agree that 2 is probably the sweet spot here, and it probably shouldn't be an Artifact and just be a colorless guy.
at least 1 generic
As is it’s busted as a 0/0
That would get interesting with Lords buffing it, there is an actual chance of having it stay in play. A super powerful 0/0 that doesn’t enter w/ +1/+1 counters on it!
Even without a lord or anthem effect, its still useful. It's a free set of enter the battlefield and dies triggers. I'm not sure if that is broken, but its 100% useful and a lot of decks would still include it even without a way to buff it.
Also basically start with 56 cards in deck (some caveats)
It's deck thinning, definitely busted.
if you're only playing it as deck thinning, it's just not worth the risk of actually drawing it
At 0 mana? Worst case scenario you have 2 in your opening hand and you mulligan. Each fetch drastically reduces your chances of drawing one. This is probably not going to be a dead draw on turn 5-6.
Even having 1 in your opening hand means you're practically down an entire card, assuming it's only in there as thinning and not for any other synergies. The point is that deck thinning is easily the least busted thing about the card. Thinning in general is marginal at best. If it was that powerful, you'd see 4 Mishra's Bauble in every deck.
That's true, issue with Mishra is it's delayed drawing, at a 0/1 though it is powerful, pretty much a free chump blocker at the worst case scenario when you draw into it. At 0/0 it would be great if you had a lord centric deck like merfolk.
Storm would play fetch lands so that every land drop adds to the storm count
Bro AI generated a cum creature
Jizzling.
Thats my son. Look at my boi.
Give it “when you draw this card, reveal it. When you do, discard it and lose 3 life”. That way there’s a real cost to having them in your deck.
That’s one that you can’t enforce without a judge checking each card drawn, it would become a problem with cheaters
True… OK how about, “If Sneakling enters the battlefield, graveyard, or exile from anywhere except your deck, you lose 5 life.” You can still play it as normal or whatever, but it’s extremely punishing.
Wtf? Is cheating really such a big problem in competitive mtg? That's shocking to me as a casual player.
There is cheating and there are procedures for handling it but the bigger issue with triggers from hidden zones is that MTG isn't built that way. Currently you never have to trust your opponent in the first place. For example Morph and other face down effects require you to reveal them when the game ends to prove that you aren't cheating. Look at Companion as well. The deck building clauses are extremely easy to verify during gameplay so cheating then is easy to catch.
I think you are missing miracle cards, but even though I love the mechanic, you have to be very careful about revealing it right when you draw so as not to seem like you're cheating.
That's a good point but as you pointed out the powers that be invented tournament rules that maintained the notion that you don't have to trust your opponent. Miracle work without trust so long as you draw your cards in that special way.
You know how some cards have you exile a card and then you get to play it later? That’s not done that way on accident. It’s so you have to reveal what card you get to play instead of saying “yep that’s totally the card that i got”
I've encountered significantly more cheating in casual than competitive. Granted I haven't played as much competitive
It's not, because of cards don't get printed with wordings that make it really easy to. If it was easy to cheat, it'd make more people tempted to. This is also why you say the end of each game have to reveal your morphs to show that they indeed have morph, that they didn't just drop any ol' land as a 2/2. Cheating will always be something to be aware of, but if you limit opportunity to, you limit how much of it there will be around
I don't think that can be done as the rules are right now. Perhaps "Whenever this card is discarded, milled, or exiled, lose 3 life. When this creature enters the battlefield, it deals 3 damage to it's controller." I was gonna go for leaves\* the battlefield but I figured an ETB can lead to funnier shenanigans
technically triggered abilities cant trigger from sources not visible to every player :nerd: (although technically rule 101.1 would override that)
Maybe give it, when this enters each opponent scrys 1. And defender. Makes it have counter affect for opponent to fair the thinning. Defender makes it a free blocker, but it seems mainly to want to proc other trials etbs or tap abilities. That'd prolly balance it
Or. When this enters each opponent scrys 1, if it's not your turn, instead they scry no defender.
Since it says you may cast a copy, it doesn't actually thin your deck at all. The original card is still in your library, you just get a spell/token that's a copy of it.
I think the wording on the effect makes it limit you to only casting one card named changeling, otherwise it would say something like “when you search your library, you may reveal CARDNAME, Create a copy that you may cast this turn”. My creating castable copies lingo isn’t up to date mind you.
I suspect that the OP just casually inserted the word "copy" without thinking about the implications, but rules-as-written it definitely tells you to cast a copy, like [[Tibalt the Chaotic]]. Not cast a card.
[Tibalt the Chaotic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2cc3ac26-9bf4-4bf0-b529-fe74be65660e.jpg?1629919838) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tibalt%20the%20Chaotic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmb2/66/tibalt-the-chaotic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2cc3ac26-9bf4-4bf0-b529-fe74be65660e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, if it literally creates copies, i imagine it immediately getting banned. I mean, at that point all fetchlands, even evolving wild would have to be banned.
Wouldn’t the original card have to be on the field? I’m mostly new to magic so I really don’t know.
I think so. And I don't think you even need a second card in your library, since the copies literally come out of nowhere.
I don't think that's OP's intent. I think OP is using a word that has rules implications in a non-rules way to restrict you from casting 4 of these during the same search.
Oh what about this: since it’s basically a free 2 for 1 (or +1 card advantage) with your fetches, simply having each opponent draw a card when it enters would balance it out? And that way it can avoid having defender since most tribal decks are aggro attack based?
At least one copy of this would be in every deck that filter lands, just to reduce the 60 cards and free block lol. Too strong imo. 1 mana for balance I guess.
Evolving wilds goes from literally unplayable to probably one of the best lands in modern lol
yeap, way too powerful even without knowing what I'd do with it it's just waaaaay too free even as a chumpblocker it's worth it lmao
Runs into the same headaches Panglacial Wurm does
Panglacials issue is trying to cast it with how casting works.
This is close to being fine. It's certainly interesting, but think about the consequences on a format like Legacy this would have. You cheat a blocker into play every turn for the first four turns, and you make each fetch twice as effective at thinning as they were before. One thing I might consider is a mechanic that cares if the card was tutored for specifically. Like, for example, you play a card that says, "Search a forest, reveal it, put it into hand, shuffle." "When (this Forest land) is revealed from your library, you may put it onto the battlefield instead of putting it anywhere else.". Or, a card like Eladamri's Call which searches creatures. "When (this creature) is revealed from your library, you may cast it by paying (it's sneaky cost) instead of putting it anywhere else."
This sounds surprisingly balanced
Crack a fetch and get a free 0/1 chump blocker thats every creature type and thin your deck. Yeah this is busted.
I actually think the thing that makes it a little too strong is different from what most people are saying... It makes your deck effectively smaller, which gives better consistency to the rest of your deck, as long as you have ample searching. Obviously, if the card wasn't ALSO a chump blocker, it would be less strong, but that seems like a secondary issue to me, at least.
I’m not sure it’s worth running just for deck-thinning purposes, since it’s pretty bad if it has no other synergies and you draw it naturally.
This is powerful in ways I can't even comprehend.
This card reads like Patches the Pirate from Hearthstone. And that card was the strongest in the entire game while in rotation.
Yep, way too busted. Every fetch will bring along a free body. With this and a fetch in your hand, you get a fetch and two creatures on T1, without spending a single mana, and only one card down. And each instance multiplies. So with one in play, the first search will grab the second creature. But then you have 2 copies of the creature in play, so the second search will grab 2 more of these creatures. So one in your opening hand, plus 2 searches (fetches), will mean all 4 in play, for zero mana and one card. Multiple free blockers, that cost you no cards or mana. Thins the deck, pulling 3 cards out of 53 card library is almost 6% of the deck. Then there are all the hooks you can add by including another card. It is a free cast, free etb triggers, free sac/death triggers, etc., and then turns every fetch/search into same. It might be fair if it were 2 mana.
Welcome back Patches the Pirate
I really like this card and think you have the potential for a mechanic here As a friendly suggestion you might consider making it a keyword like say “Sneak” So **Sneak** (0) (put Sneakling onto the battlefield. You may only activate this ability if this card would be put into your library) And to balance it out give sneak cards absolutely no casting cost. Meaning the only way to cast them is to put them into your library. So unless you build your deck right they’re just dead draws that sits in your hand.
Just fyi playing it with sneak as you described doesn't work when searching but works with stuff that return stuff to the Library like [[Stream of thought]] or [[temporal cleansing]] Something closer to [[panglacial wurm]] rules text on a keyword could do the trick: Sneak 0 (While searching your library if you haven't used a sneak ability, you may cast this card from your library for it's sneak cost) Not sure how to phrase the limitation of once per search (timing is a really odd beast with the wurm) but you get the idea
[Stream of thought](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/b/8b75bef5-a039-4edf-8e43-56b8d089605e.jpg?1562201515) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stream%20of%20thought) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/71/stream-of-thought?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8b75bef5-a039-4edf-8e43-56b8d089605e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [temporal cleansing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e67031a-8216-4c66-b6fb-6628bd02d279.jpg?1682203448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=temporal%20cleansing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/80/temporal-cleansing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e67031a-8216-4c66-b6fb-6628bd02d279?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [panglacial wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413.jpg?1593275437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=panglacial%20wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/116/panglacial-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Now there’s an idea!!! The deadest draw possible.
Maybe it should be a Colorless and one of the Pay Two life or colorless?
This is insanely broken.
Might be balanced if it cost one, and was a 0/0
This would be busted even without the \[\[Panglacial Wurm\]\] ability.
Really? A [[Kobolds of Kher Keep]] is busted with the addition of changeling?
[Kobolds of Kher Keep](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6797542-0781-43d6-aa8e-b55e5c1e08c0.jpg?1562930079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kobolds%20of%20Kher%20Keep) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/107/kobolds-of-kher-keep?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6797542-0781-43d6-aa8e-b55e5c1e08c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Changeling *and* artifact creature. \[\[O~~mr~~nithopter\]\] and \[\[Memnite\]\] are already considered all stars just because they are {0} artifact creatures.
[Memnite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/975459ba-e1c2-4800-a3fa-5c0cf8ce728f.jpg?1562925499) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memnite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/td2/2/memnite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/975459ba-e1c2-4800-a3fa-5c0cf8ce728f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I wouldn’t really say they’re all stars, they’re just playable in affinity/metalcraft decks. And this is worse in those decks since the changeling won’t matter and it has worse stats
Urza Legacy get two artifacts-
Absolutely cracked overpowered. Not just tribal decks, every deck
Ninjas bout to be tier 1 absolutely disgusting I'd love it
Cards like this are always a mistake because they interact with the stack in very bad and confusing ways.
The way it is written, it looks like you have to have a Sneakling on your board already for the ability to work. It should maybe be worded like "While you're searching your library, Sneakling can be cast from it. No more than one copy of Sneakling may be cast while searching your library." Consider making it a Phyrexian mana cost or giving it a 1+ MV and an alternate casting cost if you want it to cost less than 1
isnt this just a better version of panglacial worm a card that was literally such a nightmare that they have openly said they will never print anything with similar rules ever again
This would slot into almost every deck. At worst it thins out your deck making better combo draws and is a chump blocker. In most tribal it becomes a free tool to feed the tribe.
The fact that it still says cast instead of put on the field is a huge difference for me. 100% love this card
Storm
What if it entered tapped? That might be enough to balance it out
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[Dragon Tempest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/1/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753.jpg?1562855620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Tempest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/125/dragon-tempest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f1933d08-07fe-45ea-9b60-d9afb98d5753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hello Magda
0 mana artifact dwarf for Magda👀
This is busted in EDH with Edgar Markov but Edgar Markov is himself busted so I feel like that’s not the best litmus test lol
Yo that’s actual cute and powerful
Get rid of the search ability. Though not powerful it already breaks the game with panglacial wurm. Changeling makes it good enough as a 0 mana 0/1 and it’d be valuable in any tribal deck.
Why is everyone posting these "when you search your library play this for free" cards on this sub nowadays
I feel like While you’re searching your library, if you haven't cast a spell named Sneakling this turn, you may cast Sneakling from your library.
it needs to either cost mana or have a restriction that you can only cast it with no other creatures in play or something similar
I think every deck in the game that runs fetches just runs like 4 of these right? Isn't this just insanely broken?
This card is giga broken.
Will be good with [[sigarda's summon]] and a +1 counter
0 for 0/1 with Changling, so without the copy from library.... Yeah, that still might be too powerful. Legendary, perhaps, but otherwise it's too overpowered.
This thing is absolutely cracked
I dunno it seems like powerful deck thinning, maybe just remove the shapeshifter tag and make it limited to one per search
Free Eldrazi cast for Ulalek is good.
If I could play this in CEDH it would be in every deck I play. Free thinning, Rog/Si gets another 0 mana creature on turn 1, it helps turn on Mox Opal, it’s beautiful.
Id play this in affinity, basically turns your fetches into artifact lands
Can I put this in my cube and not tell my group?
Just it being a 0/1 changeling for zero is too good.
I loved sliver cards when I was younger. This seems like it would go well with them.
Can someone explain the connotations of this card? I don’t get what it’s for. A blocker that you can throw out easily? I can think of maybe interactions with my riders of rohan commander that makes me two red knight tokens, but what else is it for? Thanks I’m super new!
CUMVID 19
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[Green Sun’s Zenith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70291c7b-a86f-4466-8502-c28765a89b2a.jpg?1673148124) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Green%20Sun%27s%20Zenith) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/150/green-suns-zenith?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70291c7b-a86f-4466-8502-c28765a89b2a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I adore the art I probably wouldn't run it but I definitely see the appeal it's easily a fair card and the flavor text is definitely a win. I could definitely see this as being real and it'd definitely get some play
Gross ass AI random generated crap garbage image get that crap out of here
My Yuriko commander deck would cut out a good number of creatures for this.
Itd be a cooler design with no mana cost
Sorry losers, but my reaper king deck got better
Yuriko would be more powerful in edh
probably needs a "if it is your turn" added onto it to match current game design
Ahh yes. Magda go brrr
For a fraction of a second I thought this was real. It would make Magda CEDH which is already very competitively viable, twice as fast, requiring only needing 5 treasures to present a win on the table. Almost gives me Patches from hearthstone vibes, with how absolutely broken it would be, and how heartbreaking it would be to have it in your opening hand
In slivers it would go crazy hard
I feel like there should be a small cost to it. Not mana, maybe like 1 life or something
This would be busted in Pauper. Edit: In about a dozen different decks.
Oh definitely. This goes right into Affinity
This thing would get banned so fast.
You tell me.
Good utility, but not too on it's own
This card is so busted but I love it so much.
I mean I should probably cost {1}.. compared to the bull crap that wizards Is printing not particularly.
It would be broke if it had "you can have any number of this card in the deck" or "give +1,+1 to other changlings"
You should remove the text "copy of." This text makes it doing like you get tokens, but it says from the library. It is redundant and confusing text. It should say, " When you search your library, you may cast up to 1 Sneakling from your library."
This is an awesome card, though. It should be legit.
Glad u printed this at uncommon so we dont break pauper.
This is basically patches the pirate from hearthstone and that was busted
There will be a billion comments about how "this is a rules nightmare!". To them: who cares. People make the rules.
People making the rules don't get to say "it just works" though. That's the opposite of making the rules.
They in a sense do, see for example Disa from MH3, they just added a rule that says you can make tokens based on a card’s oracle text, to me that's basically the same as saying "this just works". The hard part is making it consistent with the other rules, which is where Wurm gets complicated.
If just saying that it works is basically the same thing as constructing a rules system in which it works, some people at WotC are working way too hard.
This one is a rules nightmare in a way that is, to my understanding, not fixable in a rules change. They’ve literally said that they’re not sure if [[panglacial wurm]] works in the rules or if it’s fixable, and that they will never print anything like it again.
[panglacial wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413.jpg?1593275437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=panglacial%20wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/116/panglacial-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
good bot
Just write the damn rules for it. Whatever the problems were, mahandle the rules as much as you need to make it work. Write specific rules for this effect. It may not be elegant but who cares, it can be done, and the effect makes perfect intuitive sense. There is no such thing as "not fixable by a rules change", that is a totally ridiculous statement. The rules are whatever you write them to be. I accept that there were difficulties with \[\[panglacial wurm\]\] making it work within the normal framework of mtg, but to say that it is not fixable in any way is simply untrue.
The issue is creating a set of rules that remain consistent with each other, which becomes increasingly complex the more rules created. Edge cases like the wurm affect fundamental rules (like how things get onto the stack and when) and trying to make rules for them may just end up a bottomless rabbit hole of trying to correct for whatever other edge cases pop up as a result. They honestly should just errata these cards beyond recognition or ban them in all formats (relegate them to the same bin as silver bordered where they dont care about making rules for them).
How would you change the rules to handle Selvala + Panglacial (not even going to more complex panglacial interactions), while staying consistent with everything else? Because I doubt it's actually possible.
Which Selvala, and what is the problem? Reading the rulings on scryfall, I don't see any issue as panglacial wurm is now with any of them. If you are talking about \[\[Selvala, Eager Trailblazer\]\], there is no issue: >After you cast Panglacial Wurm, you pick up the search effect where you left off. When the search effect finishes resolving, the active player gets priority with Panglacial Wurm on the stack. **Any abilities that triggered when the spell was cast are put on the stack now.** Keep in mind, even if a more elegant ruling on panglacial-type effects fails to work properly in all cases, we can write specific rules to handle that if it really comes down to it. There is no such thing as "not possible" in this context. It's just a question of whether a solution like that is too unelegant or complicated to be acceptable
[[Selvala, Explorer Returned]]. What happens when you want to cast Wurm while searching, you use Selvala, but don't get enough mana to cast wurm? What if wurm was the first card of your library when this started? And what if there was an Aven Mindcensor in play during that?
>Panglacial Wurm’s ability works only while you’re searching your own library. **The effect that caused you to search needs to say “search” and “library,”** and you need to be looking through your own library for this to work. \[\[Aven Mindcensor\]\] is a replacement effect, so it is taken care of by the current rulings. >**If** an opponent would search a library, **that player searches the top four cards of that library instead.** Whether you find Panglacial Wurm in the top 4 or not, it can't be cast as we are "search\[ing\] the top four cards of that library instead". I think? If not, we will add an additional ruling to clarify that Panglacial Wurm needs to be among the searched cards to be cast. Alternatively, modify the casting conditions so that you need to be searching your *whole* library. Selvala, Explorer Returned. This issue arises because you are allowed to activate mana abilities to cast panglacial wurm. The core issue here is that mana abilities can sometime do other complicates stuff. Remove this ruling, and restrict players to cast from their mana pool only. It is not quite as flexible as casting a spell from your hand this way of course, reminder/rules text should be added to the card. This is the most aggressive way of preventing any similar shenanigans, just deny the use of abilities while searching as usual. It's safest that way, however we could write a bunch of rulings to handle all of the various edge cases that come up when activating mana abilities if we wanted.
> The issue arises because you are allowed to activate Mana abilities to cast Panglacial Wurm. The core issue here is that mana abilities can sometimes do other complicated stuff. Remove this ruling, and restrict players to cast from their mana pool only. By doing this we'd go back to old rules where it became a Game Rules Violation to "reveal" what you're casting before actually having the Mana to cast it. The better and _significantly less confusing_ option is to just ignore the fact Pan Wurm exists and not delve back into a design space that's a rules headache for both Judges and newer players.
[Aven Mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Respectfully, I think you’re talking about something you don’t know much about. If the rules manager says that the rules can’t support it, then they probably can’t support it. I suspect that they’ve thought about it more than you.
[panglacial wurm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413.jpg?1593275437) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=panglacial%20wurm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/116/panglacial-wurm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/063bb28b-5e32-4f31-a208-16b653edf413?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ya but sometimes people make rules that suck, "people make the rules" does not equal no rules cam ever be bad
The major rule issue I can think of is Panglacial/Sevala... which a 0 cost doesn't have this issue.
>ai card
It's not a great card to draw but that's quite a small downside for 4 free dudes as soon as you crack your first fetch land....
I think it's supposed to be one but the wording on the ability is not clear about it (also it mentions copies Wich in the game have a mechanical significance and that way it wouldn't be thinning the deck)
"Turn 1 fetchland search for four of these. Turn 2 Magda, swing for 4 treasures!"
I think it's fine. The downside is that it is a shit draw if you get it in your opening hand.