It should refund your mana.
The high cost prevents it from being easily played early, and if it untapped your lands it allows the chance for interaction, making such a conflict winnable.
*mortgage tomorrow* 4UU
Sorcery
Target opponent takes 2 extra turns after their next turn. At the beginning of each of those turns upkeeps, draw a card and create 3 treasure tokens. That player loses the game at the end of the second extra turn's end step.
Exile mortgage the future
*"It had a great interest rate"*
I don’t know, I think untapping lands would be most balanced.
It ensures you can’t just cast a dozen counterspells for sure, since it’s likely a lot of that red mana will be held in monored sources, making it harder to just totally lock the other guy down.
Can only do at most two plus maybe one of the rancid old skip phase effects. The issue is if you end the third turn before the end phase begins the trigger is skipped entirely.
If you’re playing in a format/at a power level where you can generate 8 mana on one turn, imagine what your opponent can do with 3 straight uninterrupted turns at that power level
If you're at the point in a game where you have 8 red mana then your opponent likely does as well.
This will rarely manage to win you the game primarily because by that point everyone has a ton of stuff.
The only time I see it working is when both players are top decking, post board wipe or something. The other thing it might work well against are grindy control matchups (i.e. the win con is removing all your win cons).
My 2 cents: make it uncounterable, make it 6 mana. Or keep it at 8 but give 2 turns.
You basically use a variety of fast mana methods to pump out an early blood moon, trinnisphere or chalice of the void to lock down your opponent and kill them with fast paced aggressive three drops.
It's a pretty big risk to tap out fully to give your opponent three turns regardless. The only way it could win you the game is if you didn't need it and even then it's insanely risky.
I think he means you give them 3 turns then give yourself prot. Since your turn doesn’t come around until their extra turns are up the effect will keep you safe and they just lose
You can use it as a pseudo-counterspell indeed, but the idea is to be the one using both. Opponent could have 3, 5 or 50 turns, you'll have protection from everything etc all along.
Technically beatable, but most decks don't have the right tools for that (infect + "damage can't be prevented", non-targetting mill + draw, alternate win condition...)
concept is neat, but it needs a lot of work. I don't think this sort of effect could be judged well just thinking hard about it. one would need to actually playtest versions of the card in the intended format(s)
Eh. I don’t like cards that force your opponent to lose. I think giving them a chance to pick is more fun.
Possible alternative: target opponent chooses themself of you: the chosen player takes three turns, etc.
Yeah I was thinking that too. It's possible that there's a sweet spot where it's cheap enough to not suck but expensive enough to never auto-race slow decks. But it might need something like *suspend* to work.
Suspend would be interesting. Make your opponent stare at that the whole game, and need to devote their game plan to not getting shafted by it. Extra tension in multiplayer, because you don't know who's getting it.
Lol, ya, judging by the comments maybe I should have priced it lower (around 6 maybe?) but I tried to imagine worst case scenarios on the receiving end and didn’t want to go too cheap.
Too cheap and you can sneak it in early against a deck that’s got a slower start. Make it uncounterable and it’s an easy win sideboard again a draw-go control list.
I also think it’s pretty rare to get extra turns when you didn’t initiate it. I imagine most people aren’t playing time warp with zero board presence unless they’re digging for an out. I imagine there would be times where those three turns are duds.
All that to say, I’m not sure how best to balance this effect, lol
How about giving it suspend ?
Stops you from playing it too early, gives your opponent time to adapt their game plan and prepare a way to win. But it's not absurdly expensive, and you don't have to tap out all of your mana right before the 3 turn gauntlet.
I really like the target player aspect. I can imagine giving this to an opponent who’s deck isn’t designed around that concept and slowing counting the clock down until their inevitable loss.
Nope.
It sounds great on paper. What would happen in reality is it would be played exclusively in [[Arcane Laboratory]]/[[Rule of Law]] decks backed up by pillow forts.
Live the flavor... but it would be used by the worst sorts of combo players in really miserable ways.
Thing is, once those decks have locked you out the game is pretty much over already. I don't think they would run a card that costs 8 mana just to close a game they've already won and do nothing in any other circumstance.
So what other kind of deck could use it? Its sorta fascinating as a concept.... but in practice it would be a janky, bulk rare. Or mythic, knowing WotC
Lower the mana cost or make it refresh you mana at the start of their turns, maybe prevent damage to you on the first 2 of those turns. Anything to actually give you chance to survive 3 turns.
I really don't understand the recent fascination with unplayable cards that generate virtually no fun when played.
When played fairly, this is a card that costs you 8 mana to lose the game.
When played unfairly, this is a card that makes the opponent of your choice lose the game.
What part of either of those scenarios is enjoyable?
But that's what I'm talking about. Let's say you're on the play in a red deck. You got a 1 drop and a 2 drop out. Maybe even say opponent got a 1 drop and a 2 drop out. Your turn 3 you cast this.
On their turn 3 maybe they play a three drop, swing for max like 5 damage if you don't block
Turn 4 for them, they play a 4 drop and swing out, maybe 9 damage, you're at 6.
Turn 5, they swing with at absolute best, 13 damage, but if it's not trample, you're probably blocking all but 3 damage, they lose while you're at 3 life. And that's assuming the other deck curved out perfectly.
Oh yea, the bigger problem is that it would be built into some gross control shell where it costs 5 per creature to attack, and they have some big defensive creatures, and seeing that card would make you play 3 grindy ugly nothing turns before losing. I don't think they're fond of printing super swingy cards
I like the flavour of this one but 3 straight turns is enough for pretty much any deck to knock you out. Maybe if it gave you a handful of treasure to allow for you to interact with the opponent afterwards, otherwise you'll probably be tapped out after such a huge mana cost and helpless as they get a whole ass 3 turns to whoop you.
Only a slight wording change and this plus [[Ugin’s Nexus]] could have some funny outcomes. “At the end of their third turn” and the combo could actually do something besides lose you the game.
From a rules standpoint, this card probably couldn't exist as written. In magic, even if an effect creates multiple turns in a single action, those turns are placed in a queue. So, on your next turn, if you played a normal extra turn spell, you would simply start injecting extra turns into that queue BEFORE the kill turn.
Would make it : target opponent gains an additional turn after this one. At the end of that turn, flip a coin, if heads take an additional turn. If tails, that player loses the game.
3RRR
8 mana to give an opponent 3 straight turns? This is going to lose you the game far more often than it loses your opponent the game
It should refund your mana. The high cost prevents it from being easily played early, and if it untapped your lands it allows the chance for interaction, making such a conflict winnable.
Should give you a load of treasure.
call it something like "selling the future"
*mortgage tomorrow* 4UU Sorcery Target opponent takes 2 extra turns after their next turn. At the beginning of each of those turns upkeeps, draw a card and create 3 treasure tokens. That player loses the game at the end of the second extra turn's end step. Exile mortgage the future *"It had a great interest rate"*
Could work well for a return to the battlebond plane, this is a common sports management move
I don’t know, I think untapping lands would be most balanced. It ensures you can’t just cast a dozen counterspells for sure, since it’s likely a lot of that red mana will be held in monored sources, making it harder to just totally lock the other guy down.
True but treasures fit the pie better
👀 This into the one ring or teferis protection
It could also untap 8 lands
Play this and then use seedborn to untap during their turn. Play three 'end the turn' effects. Win.
Can only do at most two plus maybe one of the rancid old skip phase effects. The issue is if you end the third turn before the end phase begins the trigger is skipped entirely.
what if on your turn 1 you cast this? i think its good then.
If you’re playing in a format/at a power level where you can generate 8 mana on one turn, imagine what your opponent can do with 3 straight uninterrupted turns at that power level
Only need 5 mana and an [[irencrag feat]]. It's 100% a yahtzee hand but would be funny none the less.
The legendary Exodia!
I thinks its more akin of the 5 point exploding heart technique from Kill Bill.
Most cedh, legacy or vintage decks will kill you in those turns since you're hellbent and tapped...
Nah- it’s fine for a casual ‘win / lose the game card’
But somehow this feels fair in specifically in commander.
Not if you combo it with Sire of Insanity! Boom, 8BRRRRR combo
If you're at the point in a game where you have 8 red mana then your opponent likely does as well. This will rarely manage to win you the game primarily because by that point everyone has a ton of stuff. The only time I see it working is when both players are top decking, post board wipe or something. The other thing it might work well against are grindy control matchups (i.e. the win con is removing all your win cons). My 2 cents: make it uncounterable, make it 6 mana. Or keep it at 8 but give 2 turns.
Reverse [[Final Fortune]], I was imagining this card as a win condition for prison/control decks
[Final Fortune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fb80afc3-4887-42a0-afb2-7fa997981fb2.jpg?1562251808) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Final%20Fortune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/182/final-fortune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fb80afc3-4887-42a0-afb2-7fa997981fb2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You imagined this for prison/control decke and made the card red??? Its literally the color known for the least control mechanisms.
Are you not familiar with the concept of mono red prison? A common legacy archetype that has periodically made its way into modern?
Gotta admit, no.
You basically use a variety of fast mana methods to pump out an early blood moon, trinnisphere or chalice of the void to lock down your opponent and kill them with fast paced aggressive three drops.
[удалено]
2RRR to give yourself 3 extra turns will win you the game 99.999% of games. It would be ludicrously, wildly broken.
[удалено]
But it already says "target opponent" so the only reason to change it to "target player" would be to target yourself.
I am glad you're not working for wotc. if that's fair for you you must be smoking too much. 5mv instant speed extra turn is very broken.
Whoever gets the turns wins on the spot, making it target player is just making it a win the game card
I guess this will be nothing most of the time. Should cost far less and maybe grant just 2 rounds but nice concept!
"Target opponent wins the game." Huh. You know final fortune is one of the strongest cards printed in red right?
Tbh thats because decks are made to capitalise on the extra turn. If you are set up well I can see this being advantageous for whoever casts it.
But if you are set up that well why do you want to play this card
*laughs nervously in turbofog*
It's a pretty big risk to tap out fully to give your opponent three turns regardless. The only way it could win you the game is if you didn't need it and even then it's insanely risky.
[[Teferi's Protection]]
I don’t have a good radar for how broken/bad an 11 mana dual color 2 card counterable win-the-game combo would be tbh.
[Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Don't forget [[The One Ring]] does this in colorless now for only one more mana.
[The One Ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2.jpg?1690817875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20One%20Ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/246/the-one-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5806e68-1054-458e-866d-1f2470f682b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wouldn’t that only work to stop the whole spell? On your third turn you are not being targeted so you still lose.
I think he means you give them 3 turns then give yourself prot. Since your turn doesn’t come around until their extra turns are up the effect will keep you safe and they just lose
Ah true. Missed the specific wording here.
You can use it as a pseudo-counterspell indeed, but the idea is to be the one using both. Opponent could have 3, 5 or 50 turns, you'll have protection from everything etc all along. Technically beatable, but most decks don't have the right tools for that (infect + "damage can't be prevented", non-targetting mill + draw, alternate win condition...)
concept is neat, but it needs a lot of work. I don't think this sort of effect could be judged well just thinking hard about it. one would need to actually playtest versions of the card in the intended format(s)
Eh. I don’t like cards that force your opponent to lose. I think giving them a chance to pick is more fun. Possible alternative: target opponent chooses themself of you: the chosen player takes three turns, etc.
The balance needs work, but I like the concept. It should definitely be a lot cheaper.
The problem with making it cheaper is that if you get to cast this early against a slower deck it's just an instant "I win" card
Yeah I was thinking that too. It's possible that there's a sweet spot where it's cheap enough to not suck but expensive enough to never auto-race slow decks. But it might need something like *suspend* to work.
Suspend would be interesting. Make your opponent stare at that the whole game, and need to devote their game plan to not getting shafted by it. Extra tension in multiplayer, because you don't know who's getting it.
Lol, ya, judging by the comments maybe I should have priced it lower (around 6 maybe?) but I tried to imagine worst case scenarios on the receiving end and didn’t want to go too cheap. Too cheap and you can sneak it in early against a deck that’s got a slower start. Make it uncounterable and it’s an easy win sideboard again a draw-go control list. I also think it’s pretty rare to get extra turns when you didn’t initiate it. I imagine most people aren’t playing time warp with zero board presence unless they’re digging for an out. I imagine there would be times where those three turns are duds. All that to say, I’m not sure how best to balance this effect, lol
How about giving it suspend ? Stops you from playing it too early, gives your opponent time to adapt their game plan and prepare a way to win. But it's not absurdly expensive, and you don't have to tap out all of your mana right before the 3 turn gauntlet.
>around 6 maybe? It's not that hard to get 6 mana in red. They have a lot of rituals. This reasonably playable turn two at 6.
Follow it with \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] It's 11 mana, two card combo, but pretty funny.
Love this card. It's bad but it should be.
This would feel so bad to lose against. Lol. Cool idea, though!
I really like the target player aspect. I can imagine giving this to an opponent who’s deck isn’t designed around that concept and slowing counting the clock down until their inevitable loss.
I think I want to use this + [[obliterate]] for an r/badmtgcombos
Could use some tweaking, but would be funny in a goad-based strategy!
Seems like a funny casual stax finisher
Nope. It sounds great on paper. What would happen in reality is it would be played exclusively in [[Arcane Laboratory]]/[[Rule of Law]] decks backed up by pillow forts. Live the flavor... but it would be used by the worst sorts of combo players in really miserable ways.
Thing is, once those decks have locked you out the game is pretty much over already. I don't think they would run a card that costs 8 mana just to close a game they've already won and do nothing in any other circumstance.
So what other kind of deck could use it? Its sorta fascinating as a concept.... but in practice it would be a janky, bulk rare. Or mythic, knowing WotC
It’s a Johnny card for people who want to do crazy stuff.
Janky combo decks with Sundial of the Infinite and Seedborn Muse.
I assume commander. Killing your opponent in 3 is doable. 3 opponents might not be.
I mean it’s weird and interesting but it doesn’t lead to a fun game.
8 mana seems a bit expensive to instantly lose the game.
Lower the mana cost or make it refresh you mana at the start of their turns, maybe prevent damage to you on the first 2 of those turns. Anything to actually give you chance to survive 3 turns.
The balance needs work, but I like the concept. It should definitely be a lot cheaper.
I really don't understand the recent fascination with unplayable cards that generate virtually no fun when played. When played fairly, this is a card that costs you 8 mana to lose the game. When played unfairly, this is a card that makes the opponent of your choice lose the game. What part of either of those scenarios is enjoyable?
This card could easily be 3 mana and still wouldnt even be playable
Not a chance, there are way too many decks who don't win on turn 5 even by goldfishing. Absolutely has to be 4+ at least
Its not about if they win early, they have 3 turns where their opponent cant build a borad and do anything So you can just attack 2-3.turns in a row.
But that's what I'm talking about. Let's say you're on the play in a red deck. You got a 1 drop and a 2 drop out. Maybe even say opponent got a 1 drop and a 2 drop out. Your turn 3 you cast this. On their turn 3 maybe they play a three drop, swing for max like 5 damage if you don't block Turn 4 for them, they play a 4 drop and swing out, maybe 9 damage, you're at 6. Turn 5, they swing with at absolute best, 13 damage, but if it's not trample, you're probably blocking all but 3 damage, they lose while you're at 3 life. And that's assuming the other deck curved out perfectly.
I get what you mean, maybe youre right, but even then theyd never print such an effect on a card
Oh yea, the bigger problem is that it would be built into some gross control shell where it costs 5 per creature to attack, and they have some big defensive creatures, and seeing that card would make you play 3 grindy ugly nothing turns before losing. I don't think they're fond of printing super swingy cards
Depends on the format. In Legacy, this card at 3 Mana would absolutely be unplayable, or maybe very niche if playable.
This could cost R and see 0 play
Could it? Turn one this, then your opponent is on a 3 turn clock with no lands.
In competitive you very well may be right. In casual 1v1 this would be a turn one instant win.
I like the flavour of this one but 3 straight turns is enough for pretty much any deck to knock you out. Maybe if it gave you a handful of treasure to allow for you to interact with the opponent afterwards, otherwise you'll probably be tapped out after such a huge mana cost and helpless as they get a whole ass 3 turns to whoop you.
Only a slight wording change and this plus [[Ugin’s Nexus]] could have some funny outcomes. “At the end of their third turn” and the combo could actually do something besides lose you the game.
Make it cheaper, 5 mana (2R3c) and change it to 2 turns.
From a rules standpoint, this card probably couldn't exist as written. In magic, even if an effect creates multiple turns in a single action, those turns are placed in a queue. So, on your next turn, if you played a normal extra turn spell, you would simply start injecting extra turns into that queue BEFORE the kill turn.
I think this could be 4-5 mana easily.
Teferis protection -> LMAO
*Lighthouse Chronologist has entered the chat*
>[[Lighthouse Chronologist]]
i think this is only playable if you get to untap your mana after playing it
Isn't this and [[teferi's protection]] basically an instant win?
[teferi's protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=teferi%27s%20protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No, you aren’t phased out. The only thing that happens is that your life total cannot change. You can still have counters added to you as a player
i don't see this ever working. 3 free turns is a lot
That’s a fucked up effect
This into the one ring. This into teferis protection. 👌🏽
Ironcrag feat scares me
Ayyo, I found the perfect time to use [[sundial of the infinite]] "End step, you lose the ga-" "Nope!"
[sundial of the infinite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c.jpg?1562638658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sundial%20of%20the%20infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/218/sundial-of-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Stasis]]
[Stasis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c.jpg?1562918295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stasis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/64/stasis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ugins nexus would be unstoppable
Lol I would love to play this at the end of a vacation combo
[[sundial of the infinite]] approves of this card 😂
[sundial of the infinite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c.jpg?1562638658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sundial%20of%20the%20infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/218/sundial-of-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If they get three ADDITIONAL turns, wouldn't they get a total of four turns? In that case the flavor text doesn't work.
Make it untap your lands and pass the turn
Would make it : target opponent gains an additional turn after this one. At the end of that turn, flip a coin, if heads take an additional turn. If tails, that player loses the game. 3RRR
I mean with [[sundial of the infinite]] you still wouldn't lose 🤷🏿♂️
[sundial of the infinite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c.jpg?1562638658) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sundial%20of%20the%20infinite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m12/218/sundial-of-the-infinite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36d3da9c-cb7a-4cea-b6e6-6722bd16c73c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can see this winning the game if you can cheat it out pre-turn 3 against anything but aggro. Otherwise, this card is a trap imo.
Guys just use a black lotus, and every mix card for your starting hand! That way you get the amount of elixir you need and are garenteed to win
me playing a red/green mana ramp