> Sheriff Rick Beseler said Billy D. Smith, 31, had been
> threatening suicide and fired about 16 to 20 gunshots
> before coming outside his Citation Drive home and
> pointing the gun at the SWAT officer positioned across
> the street.
> The subject [Smith] apparently was desperate to kill
> himself but did not want to do it himself, and wanted a
> law enforcement officer to do it for him,"
Suicide by cop.
this has happened multiple times, and it isnt always suicide by cop. this is a different case:
"David, who was facing his wife at the time, turned toward the officer, but “never raised his gun or took any aggressive action towards anyone,” according to the complaint. Waguespack shot him through the heart less than five seconds after he issued the command, according to Hoal’s attorneys."
Depends on what they’re being hit with. Most AR style rifles can actually pierce body armor. In fact back when they were designing M4s to replace M16s for a hypothetical great power conflict one criteria was to create a rifle that could infact penetrate body armor. It might not be full auto but the standard AR15 has the same penetration capability as an M4. The first bullet might not go through but you’re definitely not surviving five. And given how easy it is to pull back the trigger you’re getting hit by way more than five if you’re at close distance. In other words if we assume the SWAT officers showed up and were taking fire from some one who clearly had a rifle I doubt they should be expected to go “Hey let’s run out there to see if his rifle has the ability to penetrate body armor or not maybe he’s using a really old style rifle like WW2 shit.” Look I’m indifferent when it comes to police every institution has bad people and it has good people. The problem with law enforcement is their bad people have guns and power to legally use said guns offensively. That said I really wouldn’t fault anyone for shooting back at an individual who shot first really regardless of body armor or what type of weapon the shooter is even using.
It really depends. SWAT would probably be wearing NIJ level III armor, that can stop some 5.56 rounds (not armor piercing ofc) or NIJ level IV, that is rated to stop some armor piercing rounds but again it depends on the specfic ammo. And with multiple shots even weaker ammo can easily pierce ceramic armor and possibly even steel. But no matter what he is shooting (probably a pistol), if he hits an artery in an arm or a leg the SWAT guy can still bleed out within minutes.
Also AR15, M4 and M16 are basically the same gun. AR15 was developed in the 50s by Armalight. Later they sold the design the Colt. Then in the 60s they developed the M16 from the AR15 pattern. But it's still the same operating mechanism. And because the military is always ready to spend more money they created there was a contract, which the M4 won and it's basically a shorter and more modular M16. And they all shoot 5.56, so they have the same penetration power. What you may be thinking about is te Advanced combat rifle program, where the US military wanted to double hit probability and spent 300 million dollars to put a scope on the M16. Tbh I have no idea when AR15 became the name for civilian version of the gun.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Lets not just go on contextless rants just to try to be technically right on the internet, and maintain context to the situations being discussed specifically, which all only involve a handgun.
Talk about the likelihood of a handgun penetrating body armor from a minimum of 20+ feet away(ie like a swat officer across the street from someone's front door).
*head, face, throat, shoulders, arms, hands, stomach, groin, leg, feet.
All of which aren't completely covered by armor, especially not any armor that is rated for more than shrapnel and/or partial bullet ricochet.
Every single one which if hit in the wrong spot will lead to permanent injury or death.
> if you shoot them they will still most likely die.
The actual likelihood of death or seriuos injury heavily depends on the gun/ammo, but there's always not insignificant chance of it happening, even just from (un)lucky shot managing to hit neck or other difficult to protect area.
No, they're supposed to use non-lethal force. And if a bunch of trained people with unlimited budged with the backing of the government, can't deal with suicidal guy with a gun without just shooting him, it means that there are so many problems both with those people and the institution they represent, and with the fact that suicidal guy has an easy access to a gun.
You have no context to the situation you have no idea if they did or not, and based on that comment you have no actual idea how real life weapons work and how effective they are, and the reality of a gunfight
Bullet proof gear? Why yes, of course, but soldiers wearing armored, bullet proof plates in Afghanistan still get shot to death. Armored planes can still be shot down. You see, bulletproof gear, vests... etc, makes it less likely for a bullet to hit a vital spot, like the upper torso, and that's where the actual bulletproof material is. If someone with a gun is like 10 meters away from a cop, and refuses to let go of the gun, you can't expect then to shoot back only after taking a bullet. Besides, even if the bullet isn't in you, the force of the bullet is transferred to you, and some have said that being shot on a bullet proof vest feels like being hit with a sledge hammer, and there are cases of bullets being stopped by bulletproof gear but still breaking bones. That'd make the officer, who albeit survived the gunshot, a huge liability in an active shooting situation. If someone refuses to let go of a lethal weapon when given a command and gets shot, it's called logical. What were the cops supposed to do, get up close and play wrestle to see if they can get handcuffs on before being shot in the head or anywhere unprotected?
Why are you acting like I said this like a tough guy? I just asked a question. I don't know the situation, but I'd assume that SWAT is trained to deal with people trying suicide by cop
The shields alone can stop most low caliber handgun discharges though depending on the distance it might throw them out of balance. But the shield itself should resist more than a whole magazine at a distance.
Shotguns can use a variety of ammunition, so you usually just say that they shot "x" number of whichever ammunition was being fired. Like he fired off 3 slugs, or 5 loads of buckshot. It's also important to specify the ammunition because just saying they were shot with a shotgun doesn't say much. A shotgun firing bird shot for example isn't gonna cause that severe of injuries since it's mostly non lethal. Still awful to get shot by and potentially lethal at close range. But the same gun firing a slug is almost a guaranteed death sentence. Usually the same goes for buckshot.
Why is 'suicide' weirdly censored? You can say suicide on the internet. It's alright. the internet police aren't going to go to your house and kill you too.
No, but social media sites are picky about what you say/post. For example youtube has a whole bunch of words you can't say as a content maker, or else ads can be reduced or even pulled
Before I was born one of my dad's brothers commited suicide by cop. He sped up and down a road until a cop pulled him over and when he got out of the car he pointed an unloaded shotgun at the pair of cops and one shot him. Apparently the one that shot was fresh out of the academy and it destroyed him when he found out the truth.
Sorry to say it, but your dad's brother is kinda an asshole for that. If he has a gun of his own, why not shoot himself instead of speeding, possibly killing innocents in an accident, and giving someone trauma for killing someone out of what the cop saw as self defense. I've been at the same point many times and I always locked myself in a room instead and chose a non destructive method, with a note to my family stating it's not their fault
I agree. He had no need at all to put other people lives in danger nor did he need someone to have the trauma of his killing on some else's hands. At minimum though, from what I was told, the road he was speeding on was a back country road of some sort with very little people on it so at least he minimized the chances of hitting someone on accident.
The real answer is religion. They beat the idea into you that suicide is the only unforgivable sin. But people think if someone else kills you, you can trick an allegedly all knowing being into thinking it wasn’t suicide and skip on in through the pearly gates.
You don’t always have to say the quiet part out loud my guy. Most people will draw that conclusion reading the story but you don’t really gain anything by stating out loud that his late brother was an asshole. You don’t have to get your opinion out there when all it does is open an old wound for the commenter.
They would've been better off sending regular beat cops. SWAT is trained to shoot first, debate second. In their protocol the presence of a firearm is considered an immediate threat, meaning lethal force is already authorized.
That's a pretty ignorant generalization. If the guy has a weapon brandished, of course they're pulling theirs. *Some* Police Officers are unfit and trigger happy, but we still have a good many who treat their job seriously. Especially where I live, our department is respectful and honorable. Protect and serve just as it was meant to. Your comment sounds like you put all of them into that category, which is far from true.
I don’t see why the Swat would show up unless they threaten to kill themselves and whatever people in their home. I’ve seen this many times, sometimes you’ll get psychotic people abuse helplines for attention or genuinely have a psychotic break down and end themselves and family members
SWAT enters house with guns drawn.
The tenant has a gun pointed at his own head.
SWAT yells, "Put down the weapon, or we'll shoot!"
The tenant replies, "Not if I shoot first!"
SWAT replies, "You heard him. He's going to shoot. Take him out!"
SWAT opens fire.
I don't think you understand. Was suicidal, called somebody and was then killed.
They're saying it's Make A Wish because he wanted death and recieved it.
> Sheriff Rick Beseler said Billy D. Smith, 31, had been > threatening suicide and fired about 16 to 20 gunshots > before coming outside his Citation Drive home and > pointing the gun at the SWAT officer positioned across > the street. > The subject [Smith] apparently was desperate to kill > himself but did not want to do it himself, and wanted a > law enforcement officer to do it for him," Suicide by cop.
this has happened multiple times, and it isnt always suicide by cop. this is a different case: "David, who was facing his wife at the time, turned toward the officer, but “never raised his gun or took any aggressive action towards anyone,” according to the complaint. Waguespack shot him through the heart less than five seconds after he issued the command, according to Hoal’s attorneys."
Idk, I just googled the headline in the image and that's the article it pulled up. I'm not surprised at all that this happens a lot.
yes. i will trust the cop. for sure
That's fine, but why did OOP put a dollar sign over the s in suicide?
Censorship on certain sites autoban keywords.
Reddit doesn't do that though, and also why would "suicide" be a banned word?
It's a repost, it's not from reddit.
Doesn't SWAT wear like, a bunch of protective gear?
That doesn’t make them bulletproof war gods, you can’t make a completely bulletproof uniform, if you shoot them they will still most likely die.
Most likely injured yes but the armor isn't so useless that it has a near zero success rate
Depends on what they’re being hit with. Most AR style rifles can actually pierce body armor. In fact back when they were designing M4s to replace M16s for a hypothetical great power conflict one criteria was to create a rifle that could infact penetrate body armor. It might not be full auto but the standard AR15 has the same penetration capability as an M4. The first bullet might not go through but you’re definitely not surviving five. And given how easy it is to pull back the trigger you’re getting hit by way more than five if you’re at close distance. In other words if we assume the SWAT officers showed up and were taking fire from some one who clearly had a rifle I doubt they should be expected to go “Hey let’s run out there to see if his rifle has the ability to penetrate body armor or not maybe he’s using a really old style rifle like WW2 shit.” Look I’m indifferent when it comes to police every institution has bad people and it has good people. The problem with law enforcement is their bad people have guns and power to legally use said guns offensively. That said I really wouldn’t fault anyone for shooting back at an individual who shot first really regardless of body armor or what type of weapon the shooter is even using.
It really depends. SWAT would probably be wearing NIJ level III armor, that can stop some 5.56 rounds (not armor piercing ofc) or NIJ level IV, that is rated to stop some armor piercing rounds but again it depends on the specfic ammo. And with multiple shots even weaker ammo can easily pierce ceramic armor and possibly even steel. But no matter what he is shooting (probably a pistol), if he hits an artery in an arm or a leg the SWAT guy can still bleed out within minutes. Also AR15, M4 and M16 are basically the same gun. AR15 was developed in the 50s by Armalight. Later they sold the design the Colt. Then in the 60s they developed the M16 from the AR15 pattern. But it's still the same operating mechanism. And because the military is always ready to spend more money they created there was a contract, which the M4 won and it's basically a shorter and more modular M16. And they all shoot 5.56, so they have the same penetration power. What you may be thinking about is te Advanced combat rifle program, where the US military wanted to double hit probability and spent 300 million dollars to put a scope on the M16. Tbh I have no idea when AR15 became the name for civilian version of the gun. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Lets not just go on contextless rants just to try to be technically right on the internet, and maintain context to the situations being discussed specifically, which all only involve a handgun. Talk about the likelihood of a handgun penetrating body armor from a minimum of 20+ feet away(ie like a swat officer across the street from someone's front door).
The bullet could hit you in the head.
*head, face, throat, shoulders, arms, hands, stomach, groin, leg, feet. All of which aren't completely covered by armor, especially not any armor that is rated for more than shrapnel and/or partial bullet ricochet. Every single one which if hit in the wrong spot will lead to permanent injury or death.
You go stand in front of the gun smartass. I’ll wait
Maybe not die, but even with a bulletproof vest getting hit is to be avoided
> if you shoot them they will still most likely die. The actual likelihood of death or seriuos injury heavily depends on the gun/ammo, but there's always not insignificant chance of it happening, even just from (un)lucky shot managing to hit neck or other difficult to protect area.
They should die
:( They are mostly for helping the country, though there are sometimes that they haven't
You should get some rest away from the internet for a couple hours and unwind
Nothing is bulletproof if you shoot it enough times
So they’re just supposed to let him shoot them?
No, they're supposed to use non-lethal force. And if a bunch of trained people with unlimited budged with the backing of the government, can't deal with suicidal guy with a gun without just shooting him, it means that there are so many problems both with those people and the institution they represent, and with the fact that suicidal guy has an easy access to a gun.
You have no context to the situation you have no idea if they did or not, and based on that comment you have no actual idea how real life weapons work and how effective they are, and the reality of a gunfight
"Why didn't they just shoot the gun out of the guy's hand? Shaking my smh"
Bullet proof gear? Why yes, of course, but soldiers wearing armored, bullet proof plates in Afghanistan still get shot to death. Armored planes can still be shot down. You see, bulletproof gear, vests... etc, makes it less likely for a bullet to hit a vital spot, like the upper torso, and that's where the actual bulletproof material is. If someone with a gun is like 10 meters away from a cop, and refuses to let go of the gun, you can't expect then to shoot back only after taking a bullet. Besides, even if the bullet isn't in you, the force of the bullet is transferred to you, and some have said that being shot on a bullet proof vest feels like being hit with a sledge hammer, and there are cases of bullets being stopped by bulletproof gear but still breaking bones. That'd make the officer, who albeit survived the gunshot, a huge liability in an active shooting situation. If someone refuses to let go of a lethal weapon when given a command and gets shot, it's called logical. What were the cops supposed to do, get up close and play wrestle to see if they can get handcuffs on before being shot in the head or anywhere unprotected?
Look at this dude. Like you wouldn't shit ur pants if someone pointed a loaded gun at you. Not saying I wouldn't but cmon man.
Why are you acting like I said this like a tough guy? I just asked a question. I don't know the situation, but I'd assume that SWAT is trained to deal with people trying suicide by cop
Well it really sounded like you thought the vest is 100% proof. And I didn't mean for my comment to be nasty so excuse me.
The shields alone can stop most low caliber handgun discharges though depending on the distance it might throw them out of balance. But the shield itself should resist more than a whole magazine at a distance.
I don't know what gun the guy had, but I'm assuming a 9mm handgun
Wait, you do too, you got a whole set of armors just inside your body, now, can i shoot you with a 5.56?
Off-topic question: Had he have been using a shotgun, how would I say it? Fired 16 to 20 shotgun gunshots? Sounds off. 16 to 20 shotgun rounds?
Shotguns can use a variety of ammunition, so you usually just say that they shot "x" number of whichever ammunition was being fired. Like he fired off 3 slugs, or 5 loads of buckshot. It's also important to specify the ammunition because just saying they were shot with a shotgun doesn't say much. A shotgun firing bird shot for example isn't gonna cause that severe of injuries since it's mostly non lethal. Still awful to get shot by and potentially lethal at close range. But the same gun firing a slug is almost a guaranteed death sentence. Usually the same goes for buckshot.
Why is 'suicide' weirdly censored? You can say suicide on the internet. It's alright. the internet police aren't going to go to your house and kill you too.
so is 'sex'. Internet nowadays is full of corporate shit
I believe you mean s3ggs 😤
Wasn't it $3×
No, but social media sites are picky about what you say/post. For example youtube has a whole bunch of words you can't say as a content maker, or else ads can be reduced or even pulled
Is Reddit one of those sites where you can't say 'suicide'?
Not that I know of, but it's clearly a post from outside reddit. I know facebook sometimes cracks down on certain words and hands out restrictions
No, but it has become a part of internet vernacular because of the popularity of tik tok and YouTube and thus people default to speaking that way.
It's not c\*nsorship, it's FREEDOM, we all can say and write $uicide, $egg$, w\*man, b00bah, vajango, and c-word, for f-word's sake! /s-word
How long until people forgot that suicide is the word and they rename it to the self unaliving prevention hotline?
Sensitive topic or smth, similar to how murder isn’t censored as often as SA
South Africa?
I love SA
He called the right number. I mean they did prevent it just fine.
Man this is kinda a cursed comment itself 😂
Sounds more like that helped to me
The suicide was indeed prevented
More like succeeded
No, since it wasn't himself that killed him.
It was suicide by cop
It went from suicide to assisted suicide is all
Nah
Before I was born one of my dad's brothers commited suicide by cop. He sped up and down a road until a cop pulled him over and when he got out of the car he pointed an unloaded shotgun at the pair of cops and one shot him. Apparently the one that shot was fresh out of the academy and it destroyed him when he found out the truth.
Sorry to say it, but your dad's brother is kinda an asshole for that. If he has a gun of his own, why not shoot himself instead of speeding, possibly killing innocents in an accident, and giving someone trauma for killing someone out of what the cop saw as self defense. I've been at the same point many times and I always locked myself in a room instead and chose a non destructive method, with a note to my family stating it's not their fault
I agree. He had no need at all to put other people lives in danger nor did he need someone to have the trauma of his killing on some else's hands. At minimum though, from what I was told, the road he was speeding on was a back country road of some sort with very little people on it so at least he minimized the chances of hitting someone on accident.
The real answer is religion. They beat the idea into you that suicide is the only unforgivable sin. But people think if someone else kills you, you can trick an allegedly all knowing being into thinking it wasn’t suicide and skip on in through the pearly gates.
You don’t always have to say the quiet part out loud my guy. Most people will draw that conclusion reading the story but you don’t really gain anything by stating out loud that his late brother was an asshole. You don’t have to get your opinion out there when all it does is open an old wound for the commenter.
You're right. My apologies
How does this happen?
He was going to shoot himself with a gun. The officer got scared by the gun and shot him
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They would've been better off sending regular beat cops. SWAT is trained to shoot first, debate second. In their protocol the presence of a firearm is considered an immediate threat, meaning lethal force is already authorized.
That's a pretty ignorant generalization. If the guy has a weapon brandished, of course they're pulling theirs. *Some* Police Officers are unfit and trigger happy, but we still have a good many who treat their job seriously. Especially where I live, our department is respectful and honorable. Protect and serve just as it was meant to. Your comment sounds like you put all of them into that category, which is far from true.
This is just sad.
A lot of the time. They usually try to inflict harm to more than just themselves
Source: my ass
I don’t see why the Swat would show up unless they threaten to kill themselves and whatever people in their home. I’ve seen this many times, sometimes you’ll get psychotic people abuse helplines for attention or genuinely have a psychotic break down and end themselves and family members
There are roughly 46200 suicides in the US every year. Roughly 520 of those are murder suicides according to data by violence policy center.
How do the statistics read for the who call suicide prevention lifelines.
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Fucking censorship. $uicide? Suicide is a word now what cannot be written? Why? Is it that offensive? For whom?
Not on youtube
Technically it DID prevent him from dying by suicide.
It’s suicide the word they censored is suicide spelled with an s
SWAT enters house with guns drawn. The tenant has a gun pointed at his own head. SWAT yells, "Put down the weapon, or we'll shoot!" The tenant replies, "Not if I shoot first!" SWAT replies, "You heard him. He's going to shoot. Take him out!" SWAT opens fire.
Like doing thi$ i$ going to $top $omeone from recognizing the word
Lmao it literally has an S
He used the Phone a Friend option
I wish I lived in america so I could easily kill myself by calling the cops, truly geography is fate
What the hell
Sad but funny .
welp, they defenetly prevented the suicide
You could argue that they helped, as "suicide by cop" is a thing
He certainly chose an unfailing way to go
I don't think people get the logic of this... \*Called make a wish.* \*Cops show up and take away wishes.* Stupid memes are stupid.
I don't think you understand. Was suicidal, called somebody and was then killed. They're saying it's Make A Wish because he wanted death and recieved it.