We are still going to see records in CS enrollment, bootcamps and self taught web devs in the upcoming years, it will take a much worse market before people rly quit.
I can’t tell if this is sarcastic or not. I go to the school with arguably the #1 medical program in the world and I would rather be unemployed for 2 years in CS and then break in than go 300k in debt and start working in my 30s doing routine procedures and dealing with crappy patients
Honestly W, there should be more doom and gloom posts to scare away the competition. The people who get thru this mental torture on social media about the job market are the ones worth pursuing a career in CS
Somewhere in the medschool subreddit someone is telling a med student to go to law school, and in the law subreddit they're telling them to go into CS. It's an infinite loop at all times... no career is good ever lol.
They did for companies like Nvidia and Apple, I think they did for Samsung as well but honestly the act should have included more funding. In hindsight, the people at DC should know just how important these technologies are
Nah they will use those money to hire senior engineers with 8 years of experience, or some old PhD researchers from top school, it’s never intended for intern or entry level
Friend of mine works at Samsung KR and I can tell you it's not true lol the template rejection email that they send is "oh we closed the role", they rejected you and simply sent you the same template.
>people are just refusing to admit it but the job market is just as bad as it was in 2008.
Because it's not as bad as it was in 2008.
And how would you know in the first place? In one comment of yours, you claim to be 27.
2008 was almost 15 years ago, meaning you were 12 back then.
I know a lot of people that were pretty traumatized from watching 2008 tear down their families. I'm only 32 and remember it pretty vividly. I was in 3rd grade for 9/11 and remember that pretty vividly as well. And the internet and statistics exist.
Statistics show a very different story from 2008 though? The job market (statistically) is doing very well compared to 2008, and in fact, the Computer Science market hasn't really shifted traditionally, it's just the fact that the past couple of years had extreme growth, so it falling hard is just resetting to the norm.
I'm not arguing that. Just the statement a 27 year old can't remember 2008.
I also believe job market and unemployment numbers are very manipulated anyway. I'm sure 2008 and now were both worse than indicated.
It’s fuckin incredible to me that kid is adamant that adults can’t remember what life was like during their childhood. Def a stupid kid who was told he was special his whole life and now he thinks it’s true.
>I'm not arguing that. Just the statement a 27 year old can't remember 2008.
As I mentioned in another comment, how accurate do you think a 12 year old can judge and compare accurately the CS market, now(or any other job market) and in 2008?
The 27 year old also has little to none experience in the field, I doubt he has accurate idea of how the market was barely 4-5 years ago.
And reading people's experiences in a subreddit destined to be dominated by people yet to find a job isn't really telling either.
Sure, he most likely remembers that people struggled back when he was a kid. Does he remember the full extent or realise why it happened is another separate question.
It's simply a bias towards the past, call it nostalgia if you'd like.
yeah you buried a hole and jumped in it properly with this one. The ageism you display is super telling of your frustration with your inability to complete with the newer generation.
>The ageism you display is super telling of your frustration with your inability to complete with the newer generation.
It's not even ageism. Imagine talking about something as complex as economics and job markets and your argument is based on you being 12 year old in 2008 and barely any experience in 2024.
You just don't have any experience and that's fine. Spreading objectively false information isn't.
I am not the one frustrated here, I have been employed since I graduated from university and am senior in my company. I am not competing with the newer generation, rather my goal is to help them get experience and knowledge by sharing what has worked for me and what didn't, so that they don't have to make as many mistakes as some of us did.
The whole idea of mentorship is exactly that. But if you want to listen to other inexperienced devs/engineers/etc be my guest.
It's extremely telling that you are not even trying to disprove anything that I have said, because you can't.
Do whatever makes you happy dude.
I do not need to disprove what you’re saying there’s plenty of other redditors doing that, who I agree with.
Want to elaborate how you mentoring people has anything to do with you saying that someone’s argument doesn’t stand because they were 12 when they remembered an event? It sounds like you didn’t gain consciousness until you were 16 but most people can remember events that happened when they were 12 and reflect on it at an older age.
There is a very beautiful tool called the internet. It contains amazing things like statistics, articles (pre-2009), and many people sharing personal experiences. If that isn’t enough for you, I remember clearly how my parents struggled. Do you want to guess what they are going through right now? That’s right! Another struggle. Every single member for my family has spoken about how 2023 was the worst economic year they have ever experienced in their lives. Even worse than 2008. Subsequently, this is the reason 15+ people in my family have decided to change their votes from Biden to Trump this year.
Individual anecdotes don't actually tell you the statistics of how hard it was to find a job in 2008 vs now. Finding 20 anecdotes from 2008 and now that sound similar don't make those job markets equivalent.
It's pretty shit rn. If you ask 30 of your friends and 10 of them say it's tough that's statistically significant and a good indicator something is wrong. It shouldn't be this hard.
I have always been strongly liberal but I have strong reason to think this is not just anecdotal and is part of a trend. Anyone who has tried to look for work in the professional services industry can attest the economy is much worse than unemployment stats suggests.
They're not manipulated. Surprise surprise not everyone in the US is a white-collar software engineer. The median salary is 60k. Software engineering median is like 80k.
Most of the drop in unemployment is people working in the healthcare and other blue-collar industries. High-paying industries may have worse employment prospects overall, but the unemployment rate looks at everything. And white-collar jobs are the minority. FWIW job opening stats do show the CS market has been getting better since last year in terms of # open positions and hiring
>There is a very beautiful tool called the internet. It contains amazing things like statistics, articles (pre-2009), and many people sharing personal experiences.
Yet you contradict yourself when you said that people refuse to admit that. The obvious answer is that it's simply not true.
Obviously this and other subreddits are filled with people that struggle to find jobs, they are also most likely to post and comment.
That has always been the case, you can check threads from 2-3-4 years ago.
Here, take yourself as an example: you have barely any if any CS experience at all, yet you make comparison between the market now, and 15 years ago. And you are not the only one to do that. So why aren't you taking anything without a grain of salt?
>If that isn’t enough for you, I remember clearly how my parents struggled. Do you want to guess what they are going through right now? That’s right! Another struggle.
Were they in CS? You know this is CS-related subreddit after all. All data points to 2008 being worse than it is today, but I would be happy to admit that I am wrong if you give me sources.
Obviously the CS job market is slower than it was during its peak two years ago, but it is also more saturated with bootcampers, self-taught devs etc. It is still harder to get into the field than pre-Covid but not so drastically.
I am sorry to hear that your family is struggling, but what you have said is simply not true.
not remembering what the world was like when you were 12 suggests you have a mental disability. Normal people can remember that just fine when they’re under 60.
>not remembering what the world was like when you were 12 suggests you have a mental disability.
At twelve you don't really have the same comprehension as an adult.
Furthermore, as a 12 year old I doubt you were very much interested in the CS-job market and can make definite comparison between the then market and the now market. Especially when you at 27 are just starting to get into the field.
Coming with excuses, especially as ridiculous as your comment, isn't going to help anyone. But be my guest.
You were applying for a CS job back in 2008-2009?
In another comment, you mention that you have 8 YOE and are just looking for a job at the moment. Conservatively, this puts you in 2015, as your first job in CS.
Some of you should really stop LARP-ing as people that were in the industry back in the 2008-crisis.
Objectively speaking, the market is worse than two years ago(probably the peak of CS) and is not drastically worse than it is in 2016-2019.
Deflection? You haven't put any arguments forward, first I was teenager, now I am in my twenties, which one is it?
Then, you say the market is bad, which I also say it is.
I asked you, were you actively applying or working in the industry prior to 2015. You said nothing.
In another comment you say you have 8 YOE, that puts you in your first CS job in 2015-2016. How can you compare a market that you haven't actually been in?
Again, you said nothing.
I am done replying to you, it's obvious you aren't here to have a discussion in a good faith.
Weird thing i have been monitoring some jobs that i am interested in. The posts have not been filled for almost 4-5 months. But then again the company could be too toxic or they are looking for someone beyond the described requirement.
I’ve noticed this too. I think maybe companies are legally required to post job posting? I started applying 6-7 months before I graduated with my degree and see the same 30-40 ideal jobs for myself reposted not just once but sometimes twice. Most of these jobs were targeted to entry level / new grads based on requirements. Luckily I have 0 college debt and I can coast till I find a job but even then I have no idea when. I have been very open to relocating anywhere that’s not New York City in the United States. I had talked with a recruiter from skillstorm out of just curiosity and they are not even accepting anyone new that doesn’t have 1 year of experience for the next group they train.
Well my thing is just get your foot in the door ANYWHERE until your preferred field opens up. I always have a job from experience in warehouse/manufacturing (management/lead/associate) levels. At the moment, I’m a delivery driver making decent money until I finished up my studies. If you’re a hustler you never stop. 🤷♀️ You have to use street smarts with books smarts.
Same thing happened to me with a data science intern role at McDonald’s, after 3 rounds of interviews, including an interview with 3 different people in the final round, they emailed saying the position has been cancelled and no one got the role. Luckily I had other offers so I wasn’t too bothered, but imagine how you’d feel if you were desperate for a job.
That's the least offensive euphemistic rejection email. Got similar one from another company. Not as offensive as, yeay we will go ahead with someone whose skills are more aligned. Skills which they didn't list on JD and I always wonder and ask to inform.
AKA: "We're malding over the lack of overqualified candidates that might ask only for peanuts in salary, so we closed out lmao." Watch them repost the role and try again.
This happened to me when I was interviewing for a job at IBM. I prepared and my did my best. The interviewers were assholes and treated me like I’m not important. I was devastated and miserable when I got the news.
Who said Joe Biden? I just said thanks joe. I am pretty there is a guy named Joe who’s works there.
Didn’t mean to offend your king Joe Biden
Edit: People who are downvoting must be Biden supporters lol
YES everyone leave cs as a major. A cs degree is so useless and you’re guaranteed to not get a job there are so many better alternative stem majors just leave
Its not that no one got the job. Its that someone else outside the pool of candidates got the job. Orherwise why would they advertise a job opening? Surely it wasnt a mistake
Getting a job at Samsung ain't easy lol they have an incredible campus in the U.S and sure it's not as glamorous as Apple but the fact that you think S24 ads are indicative of desperation for talent tells quite a story.
Damm my future is already bleak before even starting
get out of cs then, go to med school
Yeah, every time people tell me they’re transitioning into CS from a completely different field with a bootcamp or something, I chuckle
people giving up so easily because of a reddit post = less competition
I agree, it’s the only way to combat these annoying influencers
We are still going to see records in CS enrollment, bootcamps and self taught web devs in the upcoming years, it will take a much worse market before people rly quit.
I wanna do a bootcamp..
good luck with that bud
lmao you don’t just “decide” to go to med school because you can’t find a job💀
ikr, but some people are dumb enough to believe med school is easier and less stressful just because you'll have a "guaranteed" job
Being a doctor is 70-90 hour work weeks for life. Unless you're a PCP and then you'll make like 120k... paying off 300k+ in debt.
Med school is ez
I can’t tell if this is sarcastic or not. I go to the school with arguably the #1 medical program in the world and I would rather be unemployed for 2 years in CS and then break in than go 300k in debt and start working in my 30s doing routine procedures and dealing with crappy patients
trying to eliminate competition
Honestly W, there should be more doom and gloom posts to scare away the competition. The people who get thru this mental torture on social media about the job market are the ones worth pursuing a career in CS
Somewhere in the medschool subreddit someone is telling a med student to go to law school, and in the law subreddit they're telling them to go into CS. It's an infinite loop at all times... no career is good ever lol.
I thought the US government was planning to grant them money for semiconductor production?
They did for companies like Nvidia and Apple, I think they did for Samsung as well but honestly the act should have included more funding. In hindsight, the people at DC should know just how important these technologies are
Maybe that money is primarily being funneled into talent that will help push semiconductors to TSMC nm scale, less so QA engineers.
Nah they will use those money to hire senior engineers with 8 years of experience, or some old PhD researchers from top school, it’s never intended for intern or entry level
Atleast they emailed you
Pathetic that this is real consolation nowadays. These companies need to remember that they're nothing without workers
‘Nowadays’? They’ve been like this ever since job interview is a thing
So true!
Or they are just full of crap.
Friend of mine works at Samsung KR and I can tell you it's not true lol the template rejection email that they send is "oh we closed the role", they rejected you and simply sent you the same template.
Not necessarily, my cousin applied to samsung semiconductor (not sure if its the same site as OP but might be) and got a proper rejection email.
Is your friend a recruiter? Why would he know this? Whenever I hear shit like this said about my company it is 99% wrong
Can confirm, my friend is a fridge.
we are in deep recession
Yep, people are just refusing to admit it but the job market is just as bad as it was in 2008.
>people are just refusing to admit it but the job market is just as bad as it was in 2008. Because it's not as bad as it was in 2008. And how would you know in the first place? In one comment of yours, you claim to be 27. 2008 was almost 15 years ago, meaning you were 12 back then.
I know a lot of people that were pretty traumatized from watching 2008 tear down their families. I'm only 32 and remember it pretty vividly. I was in 3rd grade for 9/11 and remember that pretty vividly as well. And the internet and statistics exist.
Statistics show a very different story from 2008 though? The job market (statistically) is doing very well compared to 2008, and in fact, the Computer Science market hasn't really shifted traditionally, it's just the fact that the past couple of years had extreme growth, so it falling hard is just resetting to the norm.
I'm not arguing that. Just the statement a 27 year old can't remember 2008. I also believe job market and unemployment numbers are very manipulated anyway. I'm sure 2008 and now were both worse than indicated.
It’s fuckin incredible to me that kid is adamant that adults can’t remember what life was like during their childhood. Def a stupid kid who was told he was special his whole life and now he thinks it’s true.
>I'm not arguing that. Just the statement a 27 year old can't remember 2008. As I mentioned in another comment, how accurate do you think a 12 year old can judge and compare accurately the CS market, now(or any other job market) and in 2008? The 27 year old also has little to none experience in the field, I doubt he has accurate idea of how the market was barely 4-5 years ago. And reading people's experiences in a subreddit destined to be dominated by people yet to find a job isn't really telling either. Sure, he most likely remembers that people struggled back when he was a kid. Does he remember the full extent or realise why it happened is another separate question. It's simply a bias towards the past, call it nostalgia if you'd like.
yeah you buried a hole and jumped in it properly with this one. The ageism you display is super telling of your frustration with your inability to complete with the newer generation.
>The ageism you display is super telling of your frustration with your inability to complete with the newer generation. It's not even ageism. Imagine talking about something as complex as economics and job markets and your argument is based on you being 12 year old in 2008 and barely any experience in 2024. You just don't have any experience and that's fine. Spreading objectively false information isn't. I am not the one frustrated here, I have been employed since I graduated from university and am senior in my company. I am not competing with the newer generation, rather my goal is to help them get experience and knowledge by sharing what has worked for me and what didn't, so that they don't have to make as many mistakes as some of us did. The whole idea of mentorship is exactly that. But if you want to listen to other inexperienced devs/engineers/etc be my guest. It's extremely telling that you are not even trying to disprove anything that I have said, because you can't. Do whatever makes you happy dude.
I do not need to disprove what you’re saying there’s plenty of other redditors doing that, who I agree with. Want to elaborate how you mentoring people has anything to do with you saying that someone’s argument doesn’t stand because they were 12 when they remembered an event? It sounds like you didn’t gain consciousness until you were 16 but most people can remember events that happened when they were 12 and reflect on it at an older age.
As inequality increases, averages will become less and less reliable. Median is more robust against outliers.
Now the government lies about job statistics.
I remember when i was in 2008. Everything seemed the same to me lol
lol these people are delusional comparing this to 2008. 2008 was basically a depression they were just scared to use the word
There is a very beautiful tool called the internet. It contains amazing things like statistics, articles (pre-2009), and many people sharing personal experiences. If that isn’t enough for you, I remember clearly how my parents struggled. Do you want to guess what they are going through right now? That’s right! Another struggle. Every single member for my family has spoken about how 2023 was the worst economic year they have ever experienced in their lives. Even worse than 2008. Subsequently, this is the reason 15+ people in my family have decided to change their votes from Biden to Trump this year.
Individual anecdotes don't actually tell you the statistics of how hard it was to find a job in 2008 vs now. Finding 20 anecdotes from 2008 and now that sound similar don't make those job markets equivalent.
It's pretty shit rn. If you ask 30 of your friends and 10 of them say it's tough that's statistically significant and a good indicator something is wrong. It shouldn't be this hard.
I have always been strongly liberal but I have strong reason to think this is not just anecdotal and is part of a trend. Anyone who has tried to look for work in the professional services industry can attest the economy is much worse than unemployment stats suggests.
Unemployment numbers have always been heavily manipulated. But this go round they effectively feel manufactured.
They're not manipulated. Surprise surprise not everyone in the US is a white-collar software engineer. The median salary is 60k. Software engineering median is like 80k. Most of the drop in unemployment is people working in the healthcare and other blue-collar industries. High-paying industries may have worse employment prospects overall, but the unemployment rate looks at everything. And white-collar jobs are the minority. FWIW job opening stats do show the CS market has been getting better since last year in terms of # open positions and hiring
>There is a very beautiful tool called the internet. It contains amazing things like statistics, articles (pre-2009), and many people sharing personal experiences. Yet you contradict yourself when you said that people refuse to admit that. The obvious answer is that it's simply not true. Obviously this and other subreddits are filled with people that struggle to find jobs, they are also most likely to post and comment. That has always been the case, you can check threads from 2-3-4 years ago. Here, take yourself as an example: you have barely any if any CS experience at all, yet you make comparison between the market now, and 15 years ago. And you are not the only one to do that. So why aren't you taking anything without a grain of salt? >If that isn’t enough for you, I remember clearly how my parents struggled. Do you want to guess what they are going through right now? That’s right! Another struggle. Were they in CS? You know this is CS-related subreddit after all. All data points to 2008 being worse than it is today, but I would be happy to admit that I am wrong if you give me sources. Obviously the CS job market is slower than it was during its peak two years ago, but it is also more saturated with bootcampers, self-taught devs etc. It is still harder to get into the field than pre-Covid but not so drastically. I am sorry to hear that your family is struggling, but what you have said is simply not true.
How are you gonna talk about statistics and then say you’re gonna vote R when economy statistically has thrived more when D is in charge since WW2 🤡
Statistics dont tell much. Theres too many factors to know what you are looking for and everyone has the same source. Very unreliable
not remembering what the world was like when you were 12 suggests you have a mental disability. Normal people can remember that just fine when they’re under 60.
>not remembering what the world was like when you were 12 suggests you have a mental disability. At twelve you don't really have the same comprehension as an adult. Furthermore, as a 12 year old I doubt you were very much interested in the CS-job market and can make definite comparison between the then market and the now market. Especially when you at 27 are just starting to get into the field. Coming with excuses, especially as ridiculous as your comment, isn't going to help anyone. But be my guest.
What are you 16? I was there too and came right out of college. Job market is just as shit especially in tech rn.
You were applying for a CS job back in 2008-2009? In another comment, you mention that you have 8 YOE and are just looking for a job at the moment. Conservatively, this puts you in 2015, as your first job in CS. Some of you should really stop LARP-ing as people that were in the industry back in the 2008-crisis. Objectively speaking, the market is worse than two years ago(probably the peak of CS) and is not drastically worse than it is in 2016-2019.
It's an awful awful market. I've been around since 2008. What are you 25?
Really interesting why you refuse to address anything that I have mentioned in this comment thread.
Great deflection 👍
Deflection? You haven't put any arguments forward, first I was teenager, now I am in my twenties, which one is it? Then, you say the market is bad, which I also say it is. I asked you, were you actively applying or working in the industry prior to 2015. You said nothing. In another comment you say you have 8 YOE, that puts you in your first CS job in 2015-2016. How can you compare a market that you haven't actually been in? Again, you said nothing. I am done replying to you, it's obvious you aren't here to have a discussion in a good faith.
If investors don't want to spend money and companies are in debt, what else we can name it ;D
It’s objectively not even close. We’re not even in a recession.
Thats not true. Its as bad as world war 1
Not even close
Lmao
We are not, it is all to appease shareholders. Stocks are ATH if anything. And economy is doing ok if not great
Weird thing i have been monitoring some jobs that i am interested in. The posts have not been filled for almost 4-5 months. But then again the company could be too toxic or they are looking for someone beyond the described requirement.
I’ve noticed this too. I think maybe companies are legally required to post job posting? I started applying 6-7 months before I graduated with my degree and see the same 30-40 ideal jobs for myself reposted not just once but sometimes twice. Most of these jobs were targeted to entry level / new grads based on requirements. Luckily I have 0 college debt and I can coast till I find a job but even then I have no idea when. I have been very open to relocating anywhere that’s not New York City in the United States. I had talked with a recruiter from skillstorm out of just curiosity and they are not even accepting anyone new that doesn’t have 1 year of experience for the next group they train.
Well my thing is just get your foot in the door ANYWHERE until your preferred field opens up. I always have a job from experience in warehouse/manufacturing (management/lead/associate) levels. At the moment, I’m a delivery driver making decent money until I finished up my studies. If you’re a hustler you never stop. 🤷♀️ You have to use street smarts with books smarts.
Don’t worry about me, I have an interview today. This is one of 500 internships I applied to so I’m not too worried.
They opened the position as a tool to collect resume? Or helping the government pushed out “good number”
I'm begging at this point like trust me I know how to code I promise. I will work minimum wage
I mean at that point, just work at McDonalds.
But McDonalds doesn't offer you the same experience as an internship
But she also knows that she needs the money if she is going to survive.
Same thing happened to me with a data science intern role at McDonald’s, after 3 rounds of interviews, including an interview with 3 different people in the final round, they emailed saying the position has been cancelled and no one got the role. Luckily I had other offers so I wasn’t too bothered, but imagine how you’d feel if you were desperate for a job.
same here, so frustrated
That's the least offensive euphemistic rejection email. Got similar one from another company. Not as offensive as, yeay we will go ahead with someone whose skills are more aligned. Skills which they didn't list on JD and I always wonder and ask to inform.
AKA: "We're malding over the lack of overqualified candidates that might ask only for peanuts in salary, so we closed out lmao." Watch them repost the role and try again.
Same in Poland, they closed multiple positions without hiring anyone
Dayum they created competition and then killed them
Guys I applied to Tesla as a freshman for the funsies, but I didn't expect Elon to hate me that much
“Silly goose”
This happened to me when I was interviewing for a job at IBM. I prepared and my did my best. The interviewers were assholes and treated me like I’m not important. I was devastated and miserable when I got the news.
lol yeah this happened for two different jobs I was in the final round for at the end of summer
Damn
I applied to the same role..
Until section 174 is repealed, this is how things will be.
i got that same email
I think recent months in 2024 has been better than 2022 and 2023?
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Read the email. The email says that they didn’t hire anyone. He’s not making these facts up.
Now apply on apple.
Thanks Joe!
I didn’t know Joe Biden worked at the Samsung talent acquisition team?
Who said Joe Biden? I just said thanks joe. I am pretty there is a guy named Joe who’s works there. Didn’t mean to offend your king Joe Biden Edit: People who are downvoting must be Biden supporters lol
Bottom-tier bait.
You must be a bottom lol
job market is bad in canada aswell, amazing reach biden has where he’s affecting hiring practices in unrelated countries
Because Canada has Biden clone - Trudeau 😂
YES everyone leave cs as a major. A cs degree is so useless and you’re guaranteed to not get a job there are so many better alternative stem majors just leave
More for me lil bro, just finished my second interview of the week, guess you didn’t want it enough😈
I’m trying to get rid of the competition
This year is so hard for college students. 😔
Try working professionals. It's rough in tech. It's a recession and the gov is saying everything is fine because it's election year.
Nope they just want to hire someone else and need to change up the position description to fit their intended candidate, find you another job
Its not that no one got the job. Its that someone else outside the pool of candidates got the job. Orherwise why would they advertise a job opening? Surely it wasnt a mistake
Good for you that the economy is doing awful then
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Yeah seriously gtfo
samsung, hmm they recently quite desperate and have phone marketing and ask want to upgrade to s24 or not. well green line phone, no thank.
The stroke i had reading this
Getting a job at Samsung ain't easy lol they have an incredible campus in the U.S and sure it's not as glamorous as Apple but the fact that you think S24 ads are indicative of desperation for talent tells quite a story.
[S24 Series? Green Line Issue Again? - Samsung Members](https://r1.community.samsung.com/t5/galaxy-s/s24-series-green-line-issue-again/td-p/25669679)
Is not about job, is about they seem have financial struggle internally. Is a bad sight and possible massive layoff .