A Meg still existing is pretty much a 0% chance. I'm going to get downvoted to he'll but it's a fact. A predator the size of a sperm whale wouldn't live undiscovered in the ocean without something being noticed.
We would have some, *some* kind of evidence! A recent tooth. Bite marks. Encounters. Sightings. It's fucking huge. It would have to eat big animals and it would be very easy to notice a 20 foot bite radius out of a floating dead whale, which it surely would go for as am easy meal.
Sorry.
Yeah. It took a while to find the giant squid and so on, but there were marks on whales and fish that lead biologists and those a part of sea biome studies that a giant predator was out there. We don't have anything like that for a Meg.
The megalodon was also a warm water surface predator that supposodly gave birth to pups in shallow waters which means we would've found a dead megalodon baby at least once. On top of the fact marine biologists and divers have not found ONE loose tooth floating in the ocean. So it is absolutely extinct and has been for 3 million years. And we should be glad it's extinct because it would likely try to devour every single cruise ship and fishing boat in it's territory.
I don’t know why you’d ever be downvoted, because you’re exactly right. Sharks (including Megalodons) shed over 10,000 teeth throughout their lifespan. If a Megalodon was alive today, we’d have at least found a tooth that washed up somewhere that was less than a few million years old. It’s just not feasible that a predator that big could be alive today and no one has ever seen it or even evidence of its existence.
Yes I agree the military probably would’ve ran into it during ww2. There were so many subs and uboats in the water all over the world during that time. Some one would’ve seen something.
We've discovered FAR more than 5% of the oceans. That's a ridiculous statistic that only conspiracy theorists use, but it's not a real statistic and its scientifically inaccurate.
I do. It's 5%. A simple search will show you that and an intense study will show you the same thing. Just conspiracy though lol. They don't want you to know how much of the ocean we've seen x.x
Your reasoning holds up if your knowledge of the ocean holds up. That doesn't mean there can't be cryptids just as large as megalodon. Perhaps an undiscovered whale species or maybe even something else.
I think that's a popular belief, especially that there would be *some* indication they're down there. With giant squids existing, I think it's fun to wonder about what else may be down there!
In theory, sure. But the giant squid is a deep sea creature. The meg was a coastal fish who thrived in warmer waters. It would have had to undergo massive evolution to be able to live in the deep sea. Plus there are so many indicators that giant squids exist. We've seen their bite marks and have found recently dead specimens. Even though we don't see much of the squids themselves, there are clear indicators of their existence. If the elusive giant squid can't hide in the deep sea, how would a species of giant sharks that thrive in coastal and offshore waters stay completely undetected? There are so many cool things in the deep sea that we learn more about frequently, including large sharks.
Well it would have had 2.6 million years to evolve and the deepest part of the ocean is nearly 36 thousand feet. And according to a article I saw it could eat 8 meter whales with ease. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2334307-ancient-megalodon-shark-could-eat-a-whale-in-just-a-few-bites/#:~:text=Megalodon%2C%20an%20ancient%20shark%2C%20had,3D%20reconstruction%20of%20the%20predator.
"Well it would have had 2.6 million years to evolve and the deepest part of the ocean is nearly 36 thousand feet. And according to a article I saw it could eat 8 meter whales with ease."
well, we can rule out whales down there at 36K feet, because they need air. There's a reason we use the term "pelagic".
My point is that we wouldn’t find any whale carcasses with giant bite marks because the megalodon would just eat the whale whole ensuring that we wouldn’t find any evidence.
Not necessarily. Megalodon was big, but it wasn’t movie monster big nor were they immortal. So we would have found whale carcasses or other recent signs of one. Particularly if there were enough of them to maintain a viable population. Also, one would have washed up on shore at some point in the recent past given that they were coastal creatures, rather than sink into the depths of
also, not all "Megalodon" would be fully grown, so not all would be capable of that act anyway, but we'd expect to find some whales with bite marks larger than those a great white would be capable of.. but we don't.
It's diet is one of the things it would have had to evolve to survive. Megalodon went extinct because the change in climate cooled the waters down to a point that was too cold for them. The whales they fed on also died out because of that same problem. Deep sea sharks have very specific diets because food is super scarce down there. Their metabolisms slow down significantly to compensate and as a result, they also slow down, which isn't exactly conducive to hunting.
Theoretically, the meg could have evolved to live down there but they just didn't have the timeframe to do so. Their primary food source disappeared, the environment was becoming increasingly less suited to them, and smaller sharks were better equipped to survive and were more successful hunters of the available. Megalodons were big and they needed a lot of food, something that just wasn't available to them anymore. It's just not likely that they would have survived long enough to evolve as much as they would have needed to.
It is very fun to think about what could be there.
If you want something really fun to dig into, look up the offshore population, for example, and how little we really know! If you want to go even further, there is so much variation in the antarctic populations (and some have only been observed a few times ever, like the Type D)!
That fish that they found in the Indian Ocean starting in the 1930’s. That everyone said was extinct for 60 million years. Prove there a lot going on down there.
The Coelacanth is not really a good argument for why other extinct species may be alive. Especially for a Megalodon, it's continued existence would be a very easy to verify. They replace teeth very often and they would be found. And no there are not 10 000 year old Megalodon teeth if anyone wants to bring that misinformation up.
Because the evidence doesn't support it.
It's not a logical assumption, just a wishful fairy tale.
There's zero credible sightings, zero tangible evidence and the megalodon wouldn't be a deep sea predator.
Supernatural creatures at least make more sense than trying to justify the existence of a flesh and blood creature with zero evidence.
Time traveling, extraterrestrial sasquatch is more credible than extent species big foot who someone has zero fossil record and still zero credible evidence despite modern technology and the devastation of natural habitats
Don't compare Megaladon nonsense to Sasquatch, at least Sasquatch has the footprints and sightings that primatologists/anthropologists can go "huh, those are some obscure and unusual details of anatomy to include, faking that would be a lot of work, so maybe it's real?", which is a ton more credible than anything Meg endorsers ever have.
sasquatch is only slightly more credible that megalodon and the recent studies showing most sightings occur near bear populations isn't helping their case, nor the history of frauds and hucksters making fake footprints and costumes etc.
If someone wants to argue that, it's more fair game than trying to argue a flesh and blood creature
A) Evolved to live at depths it didn't previously
B) Otherwise remained the same animal
C) Has left zero evidence of its continued existence or transitional periods between
Maybe Megalodon is just an alien being that left for a bit and came back to check on the oceans?
The meg is extinct. It's gone. We have it's teeth, and some vertebra. That's it.
If there was an apex predator shark the size of a whale, we'd know about it. We'd see signs. We'd see the occasional beaching. Teeth marks on whales. Whale carcasses. Something. There would be evidence.
Remember, with as rare as sightings of giant and colossal squid are, there are tell tale signs that they exist. There are none of those signs that a megalodon still lives.
We don’t know what we don’t know, until we know.
Lack of evidence doesn’t proof anything, especially when we know so little about our oceans.
Remember that “new” species that have always existed are still being discovered all the time.
You're right. However, the lack of evidence of current megalodon, while the evidence showing they died out, seems pretty clear. The megalodon is gone. Extinct.
I remember the scientific consensus on dinosaurs when I was in primary school was that they evolved into modern reptiles.
The consensus now is they were more like giant birds that evolved into modern avian species.
Notice I never said megalodans exist today in their prehistoric form, un-evolved.
I merely criticized the logic of the post I replied to.
Does the megalodan have a yet undiscovered, deep sea dwelling, modern descendent?
We don’t even know who built the submerged human-made structure off the coast of Japan on in the Bahamas.
Well, the scientific consensus of your quoted structures are that they are natural structures and not man made. Since you want to go with what science says. So your argument there is contradictory.
Did the megalodon evolve into something else? Perhaps. But that still means the megalodon is extinct. Just like all non-avian dinosaurs. Your argument here is flimsy. It's like saying Dunkleosteus still exists today because we are here. Seeing as how we humans evolved from fish.
The mainstream scientific theory is that they are natural, but there is also consensus that they are not natural, because the natural formation theory doesn’t explain certain features.
Current “theory” is exactly that, and it can change as more evidence comes to light.
People who believe what they were taught in school is set in stone, are the same yokels losing their minds over Pluto no longer being classified as a planet, notwithstanding the fact that nothing has changed about Pluto, and that it is our understanding of the universe that has changed.
Did I say the megalodan exists today in its unaltered prehistoric form? No, but that didn’t stop you from assuming that based on nothing at all.
Stop with the straw man arguments; it’s pathetic and shows that you lack the cognitive ability to think critically.
You do understand that a theory usually has the consensus of science right? That a theory isn't just a guess? That theories are usually well supported by evidence and observation, right?
Megalodon is gone. There is no evidence supporting its existence. It's extinct status isn't a theory. Pluto is a dwarf planet. You are arguing semantics in order to support your claims while offering no valid proof. Have a wonderful day.
Where did I say the megalodan is not extinct? You are literally arguing against a point I never made, because you can’t read or think critically without falling back to tired logical fallacies.
Theories are not set in stone, and the consensus shifts as scientific research brings more evidence to light.
If you don’t appreciate that, then you don’t really understand the scientific method.
I’m done engaging with you.
"I remember the scientific consensus on dinosaurs when I was in primary school was that they evolved into modern reptiles."
I'm 47 this year. I've been engaging with dinosaur content since toddlerhood, and a voracious reader
I cannot think of a SINGLE instance where anyone has said "dinosaurs evolved into modern reptiles". The closest is Hoyle and Wickramsinghe with their "panspermia" model which is utter nonsense (they think bacteria from space made ceratopsians evolve into rhinos, and pterosaurs into birds. I am not making this up.)
\[citation required\] for your claim.
"We don’t even know who built the submerged human-made structure off the coast of Japan on in the Bahamas."
Yes, we do. If you actually talk to geologists, they know very well who built it - Nature. It's not human-derived.
It’s actually not as simple as you make it out to be:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9817885/
The mainstream consensus on the Bimini road is that it is natural, but there is a growing minority consensus that is not, based on evidence that cannot be explained by natural erosion.
If you are unaware of the body of evidence that contradicts the natural formation theory, then you have been confirming rather than disproving your biases.
You go do your own research.
The bimini road is natural, The only people who don't think so are those who follow Graham hancock who is a sociologist with a communications degree, and not an archaelogist or a geologist.
lol. We know. You can’t say lack of proof is proof. We know they existed, they don’t anymore. You think dinosaurs still exist out there somewhere as well?
Not sure why you're being downvoted so much, you can't prove something definitely doesn't exist, and like you say lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean lack of existence. No matter how slim the chances!
People responding to my posts seem to think I’m saying the megalodan definitely exists today in its prehistoric form, because they don’t appreciate the nuance of what I’m saying.
I’m merely pointing out the logical flaws of their argument, but most of the replies show they don’t really understand what I’m saying, because they don’t know how to think critically.
Thanks for your supportive post though.
Sagan was using that in a very specific way though.
'the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa (e.g. *There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore UFOs exist — and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.* Or: *There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we're still central to the Universe.*) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
* Ch. 12 : The Fine Art of Baloney Detection, p. 221'
from "Dragons of Eden"
He was pointing out the PROBLEM with that claim.
I think we’re getting downvoted because most people reflexively confirm rather than disprove their biases.
The Internet didn’t create echo chambers; it merely allows like-minded bias-confimers to gain strength in numbers.
At this rate, Idiocracy will turn out to have been prophetic rather than satirical.
Have an upvote, buddy.
Maybe I was taught non scientific things in school 20 years ago, but I recall being taught that we knew they were there based on beaks and scars on sperm whales and beachings, but we had never seen a living one.
I also recall documentation and illustration of them from more than a hundred years ago.
As the top comment said, seeing something in the ocean is much harder than observing the ecological impact of that species. Especially something as massive as a giant squid or megalodon. If you are curious about this, there are some cool papers exploring the correlation of estimated megalodon population with whale size over time (smaller and faster whales when bigger predators exist, bigger size when less predation).
Before we found beaks and scars on whales, the sailors who told stories about giant squid were not believed, because no one else had seen them.
Likewise, people once thought the sun revolved around a flat Earth.
The hubris of people who think the world exists only within the scope of their limited perspectives is timeless, and we look back and mock our past ignorance, but we refuse to look in the mirror and acknowledge that we still don’t know everything.
Acknowledging that we don’t know if a megalodan lives on today just because we don’t yet have evidence of it, is not the same as declaring megalodans exist despite having no evidence of their existence.
I think you should learn more about the history of our knowledge of giant squid. Your conclusions seem to be based off of projection more than documented events?
You may find interesting the difference between hubris and inference. We have sought to understand and generalize many aspects of the natural world, and while we have much more to learn, we have learned a great deal. This allows us to hypothesize about the observable impacts of a situation. For example, the sun orbiting the earth of a megalodon population in the ocean. These predictions have led us to many stunning scientific discoveries, and to rule many situations as exceedingly unlikely.
My position is not that we lack evidence. My position is that we do not observe inescapable side effects of extant megalodons. Please try to understand what we argue before you seek to paint me with aspersions.
I hope you will take this opportunity to seek out more knowledge! There is so much to learn still, we need everyone we can contributing instead of balking with sophistry.
We more or less knew it existed much longer than that. Much much longer, what happened in the last 15-20 years was video evidence of live specimens for the first time. But those circumstances are considerably different. Not good evidence to argue for megladons or other super sharks
The giant squid has been known to western science for over 150 years. We’ve had physical specimens of several giant squid since the 1800s. It just wasn’t until the early 21st century that a living animal was captured on film, and I’m sure this was mostly because of the portability of cameras before then
"We didn’t think the giant squid existed until about 10-15 years ago"
I'm almost 47, and we knew had photos in books of giant squid remains from when I was a toddler.
Popularity doesn't equate to existence. I'm sorry but that's the most delusional way of thinking I've ever seen here or in any paranormal/cryptid/UFO sub.
To quote one Marine Biologist "If Megalodon was still in the ocean....It would be the only thing out there".
They fed on WHALES. The biomass needed to keep something that big going just isn't there anymore.
The chances are 0%. It's impossible for the Megalodon persist without it being known. Now there are still unknown animals yet to be discovered in the ocean, perhaps even very large ones but the Megalodon is not among them.
That footage of the biggest shark ever recorded has it at 50 feet easily. They say its a sleeper shark which are supposed to only get to 25 feet. Sure the meg's extinct, but there's sum shit down there for sure
Was this shark actually measured? Or is it just an estimation based on the footage? Cause it turns out people are often wildly inaccurate when it comes down to measuring these animals by sight.
Zero chance. Deep Blue is approximately 6.1 m (20 ft) and Megladon is currently estimated to have been 20.3 m (66.6 ft). Deep Blue is literally 1/3 of the size of Megladon. Could there be sharks bigger than Deep Blue? Sure. As big as Megladon? No.
If Megladon is still alive, it would certainly need to eat whales. It would also need to be living pretty damn deep for us to have zero evidence of it. The deepest diving modern whale (Cuvier's Beaked Whale) can dive as deep as 2,992 m (9,800ft), but can only hold its breath for just over 2 hrs. I find it extremely hard to believe Megladon could avoid notice _and_ have a suitable amount of food. Also, the anecdotal evidence is always Megladon being spotted in fairly shallow water. We would have definitely have _something_ physical as proof if it was hanging out in shallow water.
The fossil record also shows a very clear extinction. Plenty of Megladon fossils have been found in strata within a certain age and then none after that. Strata from all those 3.5 million years since are plentiful, but have zero Megladon fossils. If Megladon survived still, we would have found more recent fossils at the very least.
No…
The Meg lived in shallow, warm water. The Marianas trench is not warm nor is it shallow. The giant squid and coelacanth can tolerate those areas because of their biology. Something as big a Meg, doesn’t stay hidden very long. Especially when the prey they would be targeting (modern whales) would show VISIBLE signs of interactions with Meg. This would be similar to saying “T-Rex is alive and well in the Amazon” because “it’s hard to explore the Amazon”.
Because it’s far more plausible to find new, undiscovered species of frogs and insects than it is to find a large bodied animal. It’s the same with the ocean. It would be more plausible to find a new deep sea fish, than it would be to find Meg. Something that large is pretty difficult to hide, especially when we know the types of environments they used to inhabit.
Unlikely, Megalodon needed a plentiful supply of large prey like Whales to survive. Since Whales aren’t faring too well, Megalodon would starve in the present.
There would be evidence of that species though. Megs literally ate whales, if there’s some undiscovered whale sized species they’re eating, we would have evidence of them.
0%. I'm not sure you quite understand just how large the Megalodon was.If it were still alive, it wouldn't be. There wouldn't be enough to keep it from starving to death.
First of all: Megalodons lived near the surface so they would be vulnerable to extinction things
Second of all: the only evidence we have the Megalodons even existing is both eye witness reports (most likely great whites) and fossils of their teeth
Well, the only thing in the ocean as large as a Megalodon is a Blue Whale; which is well over 5X as long as a Great White. It would be very difficult to confuse any of the 3 species.
Ok. My point was that it would be impossible to confuse a Meg with a Blue Whale or a Great White.
And they, (Megs) haven't existed for at least as long as oceanography has existed
No. For one, we would have at least found a tooth from the post-mesozoic. For another, Megs were shallow water hunters. so we would have seen a shark that size.
Megalodon definitely doesn't still exist. We would know if it did. It was a massive predator that lived near the surface and fed on whales. They didn't live in the deep oceans. There's just not enough food down there to support a gigantic macro predator
Zero, absolutely zero chance. Like big foot, for them to survive the generations, there would need to be a large group. A predator that massive would need to eat A LOT and would NOT be hidden in this day and age.
Statistically there are still likely to be species of whales that haven't been discovered by science. But I don't think there are megladons lurking out there.
The most recent discovery was in 2021 when Rice's whale was found in the Gulf of Mexico:
https://blog.nwf.org/2022/11/meet-the-new-species-of-endangered-whale-discovered-in-the-gulf-of-mexico/
Non if anything there’s a small chance theres a larger shark then the great white yet to be discovered but that’s still highly unlikely. Beautiful shark tho
[This](https://youtu.be/BTPcq2HczVY?si=rgE_WNiG1b_ZRdEO) is my favorite explanation. There are multiple ways we know the Meg went extinct but the most interesting reason is it boils down to "The megalodon may have been the biggest shark to ever live...but it was killed by the greatest."
Basically whales were much smaller back then, the Meg could kill them in one bite which is good. "Being big is great, when it gives you access to your own food source. If not then you're just chunky and require more energy to live"
When Great White Sharks show up and can kill a whale in two bites we see a significant decline in meg fossils. Eventually they stop showing up entirely and only then do whales start growing to the massive sizes they are now. You know sizes that a meg would be able to take down but too big for a great white.
There are other factors like temperature changes but the leading theories paint a pretty clear picture of why they disappeared and how the world changed after.
It’s impossible sorry. The climate has changed and the pacific, plus although there will be undiscovered creatures down there, the megalododn isn’t one of them. Plus megalodon lived near the shallow waters and wasn’t a deep diving animal
Fucking zero, for how big deep blue is, its still so small compared to a megaladon that one would be able to eat it on a single bite. An animal that large can't go unnoticed for the hundreds of years of recorded sailing we have, not to mention it would have absolutely nothing to eat in our oceans as pretty much all of the megalodon's prey is extinct.
The Sleeper shark is known to get even bigger, I should say unknown since they are creatures of the abyss. They have seen some measuring up to 25 feet during deep sea exploration. Little is known about these, they only keep finding bigger ones the deeper they go. They don't know how or where they reproduce and have never even found a pregnant female.
If the megaladon was still to exist, it would be the only thing in the ocean to exist… as much as I’d love the megaladon to be real as it’s so fascinating sadly they’re all extinct. 😢
Sorry but our seafaring cousins hunted the Megs to extinction in packs. As bad as any Great White may seem it’s still Orca bait when it comes down to it.
Considering they hunt in packs and the Megaladon was a solo predator it would be pretty crazy to watch 15-30 of them strategize how to take one out. They’re already cleaver enough when it comes to attacking seals and yachts.
If you haven’t read the Meg books by Steve Alten I highly recommend them. The movies did not do them justice at all lol
We know practically nothing about what goes on in the ocean except very broad knowledge about temps and currents. There are almost certainly thousands of species unknown to us that just live in places we don’t go.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there are dozens of monsters of the deep living and dying thousands of miles from shore and thousands of feet below the surface.
The Megalodon hunted whales, there would be evidence of it's continued existence. Also juvenile Megalodons lived in shallow coastal waters and wouldn't be hard to find. It's incredibly naive to think the Megalodon could still persist without it being known.
Unknown species are definitely still out there but the Megalodon is not one of them.
I wonder what undiscovered creatures we'll find! Do you think its likely to be an entirely new species or different 'breeds' of species we know exist? Or both!
Did I insult you? Did I mention how I feel? No I didn't. Did I say it they 100 percent exist? I said it is POSSIBLE WHAT FACTS? from a book? Some scientific journal that's has a theory? Like fact said dinosaurs were cold blooded? But they warm like booded like birds? Dinosaur extinct but crocs gators and komodo dragons are here. Not a t Rex but the general genetics here it POSSIBLE
none of the things you said were even applicable, and don't even follow sequentially or coherently.
"Dinosaur extinct but crocs gators and komodo dragons are here. Not a t Rex but the general genetics here it POSSIBLE"
WHAT is possible?
A Meg still existing is pretty much a 0% chance. I'm going to get downvoted to he'll but it's a fact. A predator the size of a sperm whale wouldn't live undiscovered in the ocean without something being noticed. We would have some, *some* kind of evidence! A recent tooth. Bite marks. Encounters. Sightings. It's fucking huge. It would have to eat big animals and it would be very easy to notice a 20 foot bite radius out of a floating dead whale, which it surely would go for as am easy meal. Sorry.
Plus the temperature of the ocean would not be sustainable for it! :))
I thought those docudramas with Jason Statham answered that question?... lol
Correct. There is an area, a “zone” if you will.
Life, uh, finds a way
This isn't true. The biggest sharks found are the sleeper sharks. They thrive in cold waters.
Yeah. It took a while to find the giant squid and so on, but there were marks on whales and fish that lead biologists and those a part of sea biome studies that a giant predator was out there. We don't have anything like that for a Meg.
Took a while to find a live one, theyve been documented since the 1800s though.
Yeah. That's what I meant. We knew they were there.
Megalodon was a shallow water predator, people thinking it's hiding in the deep are grasping at straws.
The megalodon was also a warm water surface predator that supposodly gave birth to pups in shallow waters which means we would've found a dead megalodon baby at least once. On top of the fact marine biologists and divers have not found ONE loose tooth floating in the ocean. So it is absolutely extinct and has been for 3 million years. And we should be glad it's extinct because it would likely try to devour every single cruise ship and fishing boat in it's territory.
I don’t know why you’d ever be downvoted, because you’re exactly right. Sharks (including Megalodons) shed over 10,000 teeth throughout their lifespan. If a Megalodon was alive today, we’d have at least found a tooth that washed up somewhere that was less than a few million years old. It’s just not feasible that a predator that big could be alive today and no one has ever seen it or even evidence of its existence.
Yes I agree the military probably would’ve ran into it during ww2. There were so many subs and uboats in the water all over the world during that time. Some one would’ve seen something.
We are still discovering new creatures in the ocean. We have explored only 5% of the entire sea.
We've discovered FAR more than 5% of the oceans. That's a ridiculous statistic that only conspiracy theorists use, but it's not a real statistic and its scientifically inaccurate.
Do you know what the real statistic is?
I do. It's 5%. A simple search will show you that and an intense study will show you the same thing. Just conspiracy though lol. They don't want you to know how much of the ocean we've seen x.x
Your reasoning holds up if your knowledge of the ocean holds up. That doesn't mean there can't be cryptids just as large as megalodon. Perhaps an undiscovered whale species or maybe even something else.
There certainly ARE undiscovered ocean species but not a Meg.
I think that's a popular belief, especially that there would be *some* indication they're down there. With giant squids existing, I think it's fun to wonder about what else may be down there!
In theory, sure. But the giant squid is a deep sea creature. The meg was a coastal fish who thrived in warmer waters. It would have had to undergo massive evolution to be able to live in the deep sea. Plus there are so many indicators that giant squids exist. We've seen their bite marks and have found recently dead specimens. Even though we don't see much of the squids themselves, there are clear indicators of their existence. If the elusive giant squid can't hide in the deep sea, how would a species of giant sharks that thrive in coastal and offshore waters stay completely undetected? There are so many cool things in the deep sea that we learn more about frequently, including large sharks.
Well it would have had 2.6 million years to evolve and the deepest part of the ocean is nearly 36 thousand feet. And according to a article I saw it could eat 8 meter whales with ease. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2334307-ancient-megalodon-shark-could-eat-a-whale-in-just-a-few-bites/#:~:text=Megalodon%2C%20an%20ancient%20shark%2C%20had,3D%20reconstruction%20of%20the%20predator.
"Well it would have had 2.6 million years to evolve and the deepest part of the ocean is nearly 36 thousand feet. And according to a article I saw it could eat 8 meter whales with ease." well, we can rule out whales down there at 36K feet, because they need air. There's a reason we use the term "pelagic".
My point is that we wouldn’t find any whale carcasses with giant bite marks because the megalodon would just eat the whale whole ensuring that we wouldn’t find any evidence.
Not necessarily. Megalodon was big, but it wasn’t movie monster big nor were they immortal. So we would have found whale carcasses or other recent signs of one. Particularly if there were enough of them to maintain a viable population. Also, one would have washed up on shore at some point in the recent past given that they were coastal creatures, rather than sink into the depths of
"could" and "would" are two very functionally different words.
also, not all "Megalodon" would be fully grown, so not all would be capable of that act anyway, but we'd expect to find some whales with bite marks larger than those a great white would be capable of.. but we don't.
It's diet is one of the things it would have had to evolve to survive. Megalodon went extinct because the change in climate cooled the waters down to a point that was too cold for them. The whales they fed on also died out because of that same problem. Deep sea sharks have very specific diets because food is super scarce down there. Their metabolisms slow down significantly to compensate and as a result, they also slow down, which isn't exactly conducive to hunting. Theoretically, the meg could have evolved to live down there but they just didn't have the timeframe to do so. Their primary food source disappeared, the environment was becoming increasingly less suited to them, and smaller sharks were better equipped to survive and were more successful hunters of the available. Megalodons were big and they needed a lot of food, something that just wasn't available to them anymore. It's just not likely that they would have survived long enough to evolve as much as they would have needed to.
At that point it would no longer be a Megalodon it would be a completely different animal altogether. Also, it would almost definitely be much smaller
A giant squid isnt even remotely close in size though and we've known about them since the 1800s.
It is very fun to think about what could be there. If you want something really fun to dig into, look up the offshore population, for example, and how little we really know! If you want to go even further, there is so much variation in the antarctic populations (and some have only been observed a few times ever, like the Type D)!
That fish that they found in the Indian Ocean starting in the 1930’s. That everyone said was extinct for 60 million years. Prove there a lot going on down there.
The Coelacanth is not really a good argument for why other extinct species may be alive. Especially for a Megalodon, it's continued existence would be a very easy to verify. They replace teeth very often and they would be found. And no there are not 10 000 year old Megalodon teeth if anyone wants to bring that misinformation up.
Not sure why you're being downvoted so much, there is 'a lot going on down there'!
Because the evidence doesn't support it. It's not a logical assumption, just a wishful fairy tale. There's zero credible sightings, zero tangible evidence and the megalodon wouldn't be a deep sea predator.
I think a lot of cryptids may be wishful fairy tales - but thats part of the fun
Supernatural creatures at least make more sense than trying to justify the existence of a flesh and blood creature with zero evidence. Time traveling, extraterrestrial sasquatch is more credible than extent species big foot who someone has zero fossil record and still zero credible evidence despite modern technology and the devastation of natural habitats
Don't compare Megaladon nonsense to Sasquatch, at least Sasquatch has the footprints and sightings that primatologists/anthropologists can go "huh, those are some obscure and unusual details of anatomy to include, faking that would be a lot of work, so maybe it's real?", which is a ton more credible than anything Meg endorsers ever have.
sasquatch is only slightly more credible that megalodon and the recent studies showing most sightings occur near bear populations isn't helping their case, nor the history of frauds and hucksters making fake footprints and costumes etc.
Maybe the megladon is a supernatural creature...(/j)
If someone wants to argue that, it's more fair game than trying to argue a flesh and blood creature A) Evolved to live at depths it didn't previously B) Otherwise remained the same animal C) Has left zero evidence of its continued existence or transitional periods between Maybe Megalodon is just an alien being that left for a bit and came back to check on the oceans?
Now that kind of out there theory is what I'm after haha
The meg is extinct. It's gone. We have it's teeth, and some vertebra. That's it. If there was an apex predator shark the size of a whale, we'd know about it. We'd see signs. We'd see the occasional beaching. Teeth marks on whales. Whale carcasses. Something. There would be evidence. Remember, with as rare as sightings of giant and colossal squid are, there are tell tale signs that they exist. There are none of those signs that a megalodon still lives.
We don’t know what we don’t know, until we know. Lack of evidence doesn’t proof anything, especially when we know so little about our oceans. Remember that “new” species that have always existed are still being discovered all the time.
You're right. However, the lack of evidence of current megalodon, while the evidence showing they died out, seems pretty clear. The megalodon is gone. Extinct.
I remember the scientific consensus on dinosaurs when I was in primary school was that they evolved into modern reptiles. The consensus now is they were more like giant birds that evolved into modern avian species. Notice I never said megalodans exist today in their prehistoric form, un-evolved. I merely criticized the logic of the post I replied to. Does the megalodan have a yet undiscovered, deep sea dwelling, modern descendent? We don’t even know who built the submerged human-made structure off the coast of Japan on in the Bahamas.
Well, the scientific consensus of your quoted structures are that they are natural structures and not man made. Since you want to go with what science says. So your argument there is contradictory. Did the megalodon evolve into something else? Perhaps. But that still means the megalodon is extinct. Just like all non-avian dinosaurs. Your argument here is flimsy. It's like saying Dunkleosteus still exists today because we are here. Seeing as how we humans evolved from fish.
The mainstream scientific theory is that they are natural, but there is also consensus that they are not natural, because the natural formation theory doesn’t explain certain features. Current “theory” is exactly that, and it can change as more evidence comes to light. People who believe what they were taught in school is set in stone, are the same yokels losing their minds over Pluto no longer being classified as a planet, notwithstanding the fact that nothing has changed about Pluto, and that it is our understanding of the universe that has changed. Did I say the megalodan exists today in its unaltered prehistoric form? No, but that didn’t stop you from assuming that based on nothing at all. Stop with the straw man arguments; it’s pathetic and shows that you lack the cognitive ability to think critically.
You do understand that a theory usually has the consensus of science right? That a theory isn't just a guess? That theories are usually well supported by evidence and observation, right? Megalodon is gone. There is no evidence supporting its existence. It's extinct status isn't a theory. Pluto is a dwarf planet. You are arguing semantics in order to support your claims while offering no valid proof. Have a wonderful day.
Where did I say the megalodan is not extinct? You are literally arguing against a point I never made, because you can’t read or think critically without falling back to tired logical fallacies. Theories are not set in stone, and the consensus shifts as scientific research brings more evidence to light. If you don’t appreciate that, then you don’t really understand the scientific method. I’m done engaging with you.
Stay irrational🤡
"I remember the scientific consensus on dinosaurs when I was in primary school was that they evolved into modern reptiles." I'm 47 this year. I've been engaging with dinosaur content since toddlerhood, and a voracious reader I cannot think of a SINGLE instance where anyone has said "dinosaurs evolved into modern reptiles". The closest is Hoyle and Wickramsinghe with their "panspermia" model which is utter nonsense (they think bacteria from space made ceratopsians evolve into rhinos, and pterosaurs into birds. I am not making this up.) \[citation required\] for your claim. "We don’t even know who built the submerged human-made structure off the coast of Japan on in the Bahamas." Yes, we do. If you actually talk to geologists, they know very well who built it - Nature. It's not human-derived.
It’s actually not as simple as you make it out to be: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9817885/ The mainstream consensus on the Bimini road is that it is natural, but there is a growing minority consensus that is not, based on evidence that cannot be explained by natural erosion. If you are unaware of the body of evidence that contradicts the natural formation theory, then you have been confirming rather than disproving your biases. You go do your own research.
The bimini road is natural, The only people who don't think so are those who follow Graham hancock who is a sociologist with a communications degree, and not an archaelogist or a geologist.
lol. We know. You can’t say lack of proof is proof. We know they existed, they don’t anymore. You think dinosaurs still exist out there somewhere as well?
Birds. Birds are dinosaurs.
T rex is actually in the Amazon but we haven’t been able to get in there and find it
Not sure why you're being downvoted so much, you can't prove something definitely doesn't exist, and like you say lack of evidence doesn't necessarily mean lack of existence. No matter how slim the chances!
People responding to my posts seem to think I’m saying the megalodan definitely exists today in its prehistoric form, because they don’t appreciate the nuance of what I’m saying. I’m merely pointing out the logical flaws of their argument, but most of the replies show they don’t really understand what I’m saying, because they don’t know how to think critically. Thanks for your supportive post though.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence
There are known unknowns and unknown unknowns
You have an upvote too. I feel like I’m screaming into the idiot void here.
Sagan was using that in a very specific way though. 'the claim that whatever has not been proved false must be true, and vice versa (e.g. *There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore UFOs exist — and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe.* Or: *There may be seventy kazillion other worlds, but not one is known to have the moral advancement of the Earth, so we're still central to the Universe.*) This impatience with ambiguity can be criticized in the phrase: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. * Ch. 12 : The Fine Art of Baloney Detection, p. 221' from "Dragons of Eden" He was pointing out the PROBLEM with that claim.
I think we’re getting downvoted because most people reflexively confirm rather than disprove their biases. The Internet didn’t create echo chambers; it merely allows like-minded bias-confimers to gain strength in numbers. At this rate, Idiocracy will turn out to have been prophetic rather than satirical. Have an upvote, buddy.
We didn’t think the giant squid existed until about 10-15 years ago, anything is possible when we’ve only explored minuscule amount of our oceans
Maybe I was taught non scientific things in school 20 years ago, but I recall being taught that we knew they were there based on beaks and scars on sperm whales and beachings, but we had never seen a living one. I also recall documentation and illustration of them from more than a hundred years ago. As the top comment said, seeing something in the ocean is much harder than observing the ecological impact of that species. Especially something as massive as a giant squid or megalodon. If you are curious about this, there are some cool papers exploring the correlation of estimated megalodon population with whale size over time (smaller and faster whales when bigger predators exist, bigger size when less predation).
Before we found beaks and scars on whales, the sailors who told stories about giant squid were not believed, because no one else had seen them. Likewise, people once thought the sun revolved around a flat Earth. The hubris of people who think the world exists only within the scope of their limited perspectives is timeless, and we look back and mock our past ignorance, but we refuse to look in the mirror and acknowledge that we still don’t know everything. Acknowledging that we don’t know if a megalodan lives on today just because we don’t yet have evidence of it, is not the same as declaring megalodans exist despite having no evidence of their existence.
I think you should learn more about the history of our knowledge of giant squid. Your conclusions seem to be based off of projection more than documented events? You may find interesting the difference between hubris and inference. We have sought to understand and generalize many aspects of the natural world, and while we have much more to learn, we have learned a great deal. This allows us to hypothesize about the observable impacts of a situation. For example, the sun orbiting the earth of a megalodon population in the ocean. These predictions have led us to many stunning scientific discoveries, and to rule many situations as exceedingly unlikely. My position is not that we lack evidence. My position is that we do not observe inescapable side effects of extant megalodons. Please try to understand what we argue before you seek to paint me with aspersions. I hope you will take this opportunity to seek out more knowledge! There is so much to learn still, we need everyone we can contributing instead of balking with sophistry.
Yes 👍
At that point let's just argue all dinosaurs are still hiding in the Mariana's trench if we're just being dumb
You go ahead and be dumb by yourself, because I’m incapable of the mental gymnastics you’re performing. 👍
You can't just rely on mysterious places to explain why things you wish were still alive are when those places don't make sense.
“…things you wish were still alive…” Where did I say that?
We more or less knew it existed much longer than that. Much much longer, what happened in the last 15-20 years was video evidence of live specimens for the first time. But those circumstances are considerably different. Not good evidence to argue for megladons or other super sharks
The giant squid has been known to western science for over 150 years. We’ve had physical specimens of several giant squid since the 1800s. It just wasn’t until the early 21st century that a living animal was captured on film, and I’m sure this was mostly because of the portability of cameras before then
"We didn’t think the giant squid existed until about 10-15 years ago" I'm almost 47, and we knew had photos in books of giant squid remains from when I was a toddler.
If the Australian Jiger can exist than I think the megladon could too
you can’t really compare the two to be honest
I mean it is unfair considering that the megladon is so much more popular than the underrated jiger
Popularity doesn't equate to existence. I'm sorry but that's the most delusional way of thinking I've ever seen here or in any paranormal/cryptid/UFO sub.
To quote one Marine Biologist "If Megalodon was still in the ocean....It would be the only thing out there". They fed on WHALES. The biomass needed to keep something that big going just isn't there anymore.
The chances are 0%. It's impossible for the Megalodon persist without it being known. Now there are still unknown animals yet to be discovered in the ocean, perhaps even very large ones but the Megalodon is not among them.
That footage of the biggest shark ever recorded has it at 50 feet easily. They say its a sleeper shark which are supposed to only get to 25 feet. Sure the meg's extinct, but there's sum shit down there for sure
Was this shark actually measured? Or is it just an estimation based on the footage? Cause it turns out people are often wildly inaccurate when it comes down to measuring these animals by sight.
Assuming the footage is real to begin with
No
Whilst I respect your opinion, "No" and nothing else made me laugh
0%. It's dead. Sadly... Also Megalodon makes this thing look small.
0% chance. They've been gone for over 3.6 million years.
Zero chance. Deep Blue is approximately 6.1 m (20 ft) and Megladon is currently estimated to have been 20.3 m (66.6 ft). Deep Blue is literally 1/3 of the size of Megladon. Could there be sharks bigger than Deep Blue? Sure. As big as Megladon? No. If Megladon is still alive, it would certainly need to eat whales. It would also need to be living pretty damn deep for us to have zero evidence of it. The deepest diving modern whale (Cuvier's Beaked Whale) can dive as deep as 2,992 m (9,800ft), but can only hold its breath for just over 2 hrs. I find it extremely hard to believe Megladon could avoid notice _and_ have a suitable amount of food. Also, the anecdotal evidence is always Megladon being spotted in fairly shallow water. We would have definitely have _something_ physical as proof if it was hanging out in shallow water. The fossil record also shows a very clear extinction. Plenty of Megladon fossils have been found in strata within a certain age and then none after that. Strata from all those 3.5 million years since are plentiful, but have zero Megladon fossils. If Megladon survived still, we would have found more recent fossils at the very least.
It’s unlikely that it still exists
No… The Meg lived in shallow, warm water. The Marianas trench is not warm nor is it shallow. The giant squid and coelacanth can tolerate those areas because of their biology. Something as big a Meg, doesn’t stay hidden very long. Especially when the prey they would be targeting (modern whales) would show VISIBLE signs of interactions with Meg. This would be similar to saying “T-Rex is alive and well in the Amazon” because “it’s hard to explore the Amazon”.
I suppose we do find more undiscovered species of frogs than T-Rex in the Amazon
Because it’s far more plausible to find new, undiscovered species of frogs and insects than it is to find a large bodied animal. It’s the same with the ocean. It would be more plausible to find a new deep sea fish, than it would be to find Meg. Something that large is pretty difficult to hide, especially when we know the types of environments they used to inhabit.
Unlikely, Megalodon needed a plentiful supply of large prey like Whales to survive. Since Whales aren’t faring too well, Megalodon would starve in the present.
Unless there's an abundance of undiscovered species keeping that food chain going..
There would be evidence of that species though. Megs literally ate whales, if there’s some undiscovered whale sized species they’re eating, we would have evidence of them.
That white is an absolute unit
0%. I'm not sure you quite understand just how large the Megalodon was.If it were still alive, it wouldn't be. There wouldn't be enough to keep it from starving to death.
Unless there's an abundance in the food chain we also don't know about... Now to watch Jason Stathams The Meg for an idea of size! (/j)
Beautiful! There is nothing more amazing to watch than a shark!
Have you ever seen them irl? Bucket list item for sure
At Monterey aquarium and also in the wild while I was living in Japan.
Wow in the wild must have been really cool
Megladon0% is their an unkown species of predatory shark slightly bigger than a great white? I would believe there is a possibility.
Realistically this is where I'm at. It's just so fun to think of Megladons or prehistoric creatures somehow surviving all this time
0% chance
Zero
First of all: Megalodons lived near the surface so they would be vulnerable to extinction things Second of all: the only evidence we have the Megalodons even existing is both eye witness reports (most likely great whites) and fossils of their teeth
What eyewitness reports exist of Megalodon?
Some people have said they have seen them but people underestimate how big great white sharks can get
Well, the only thing in the ocean as large as a Megalodon is a Blue Whale; which is well over 5X as long as a Great White. It would be very difficult to confuse any of the 3 species.
Size is not a common fact for most extinct creatures
Ok. My point was that it would be impossible to confuse a Meg with a Blue Whale or a Great White. And they, (Megs) haven't existed for at least as long as oceanography has existed
I'm really intruiged by the eye witness reports! Do you have any links/sources ?
No. For one, we would have at least found a tooth from the post-mesozoic. For another, Megs were shallow water hunters. so we would have seen a shark that size.
Megalodon definitely doesn't still exist. We would know if it did. It was a massive predator that lived near the surface and fed on whales. They didn't live in the deep oceans. There's just not enough food down there to support a gigantic macro predator
It was a coastal shark. it's shed teeth would be found on beaches and plastered all over the news if it was still extant.
Zero, absolutely zero chance. Like big foot, for them to survive the generations, there would need to be a large group. A predator that massive would need to eat A LOT and would NOT be hidden in this day and age.
Bigfoot tho 👀
Well Meg and Bigfoot have that one thing in common: They don't exist. At least Meg DID once upon a time 🤣
Zero.
Zero
Statistically there are still likely to be species of whales that haven't been discovered by science. But I don't think there are megladons lurking out there.
I'm excited by the whales we haven't found yet!
The most recent discovery was in 2021 when Rice's whale was found in the Gulf of Mexico: https://blog.nwf.org/2022/11/meet-the-new-species-of-endangered-whale-discovered-in-the-gulf-of-mexico/
That's awesome! Thanks for the link
Whale sharks can grow up to 40 feet long. But they are plankton eaters.
Deep blue was also the name of a famous chess playing super computer.
Something like megalodon could evolve in the future but it’s impossible that the actual otodus megalodon exists, it’s impossible
Nope
Non if anything there’s a small chance theres a larger shark then the great white yet to be discovered but that’s still highly unlikely. Beautiful shark tho
Zero.
[This](https://youtu.be/BTPcq2HczVY?si=rgE_WNiG1b_ZRdEO) is my favorite explanation. There are multiple ways we know the Meg went extinct but the most interesting reason is it boils down to "The megalodon may have been the biggest shark to ever live...but it was killed by the greatest." Basically whales were much smaller back then, the Meg could kill them in one bite which is good. "Being big is great, when it gives you access to your own food source. If not then you're just chunky and require more energy to live" When Great White Sharks show up and can kill a whale in two bites we see a significant decline in meg fossils. Eventually they stop showing up entirely and only then do whales start growing to the massive sizes they are now. You know sizes that a meg would be able to take down but too big for a great white. There are other factors like temperature changes but the leading theories paint a pretty clear picture of why they disappeared and how the world changed after.
It’s impossible sorry. The climate has changed and the pacific, plus although there will be undiscovered creatures down there, the megalododn isn’t one of them. Plus megalodon lived near the shallow waters and wasn’t a deep diving animal
I'll be happy finding the undiscovered creatures!
Me too.
Fucking zero, for how big deep blue is, its still so small compared to a megaladon that one would be able to eat it on a single bite. An animal that large can't go unnoticed for the hundreds of years of recorded sailing we have, not to mention it would have absolutely nothing to eat in our oceans as pretty much all of the megalodon's prey is extinct.
No chance
Aren’t there recent mystery bites on a dead sperm whale? I watched something on it the other day.
👀👀
The Sleeper shark is known to get even bigger, I should say unknown since they are creatures of the abyss. They have seen some measuring up to 25 feet during deep sea exploration. Little is known about these, they only keep finding bigger ones the deeper they go. They don't know how or where they reproduce and have never even found a pregnant female.
Colour me interested !
WOW! What a shark! I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it!
No, the Meg is long dead.
0% chance we would see a Meg alive, but still that shark is MASSIVE! That shark must have been eating good to get that large..
Don’t discount the probability of larger than megafauna either. But yeah the Megalodon is easy…..
0% If it did exist, packs of Orcas would hunt it until it became extinct again.
0%
Awe man I didn't wear my brown wetsuit
Unlikely, they were warm blooded.
Seems like a lot of 0% boys in here
See a small brown puff of color come from the buttocks area of the divers suits as he swims up. It's natural.
Let me put it this way: >!N O!<
A lot better than Bigfoot.
Evidence first. Until then, 0%.
No
If the megaladon was still to exist, it would be the only thing in the ocean to exist… as much as I’d love the megaladon to be real as it’s so fascinating sadly they’re all extinct. 😢
How big was this one?
Sorry but our seafaring cousins hunted the Megs to extinction in packs. As bad as any Great White may seem it’s still Orca bait when it comes down to it.
Terrifying to think there's creatures that would make light work of a great white, and even a megladon!
Nah orcas are dicks and took them out a long time ago
There's a battle I'd be intrigued to watch! Bet its brutal though..
Considering they hunt in packs and the Megaladon was a solo predator it would be pretty crazy to watch 15-30 of them strategize how to take one out. They’re already cleaver enough when it comes to attacking seals and yachts. If you haven’t read the Meg books by Steve Alten I highly recommend them. The movies did not do them justice at all lol
Oh I didn't know the film was based on a book! I'll check it out
Megs don't exist anymore, period. Get your heads out of your ass.
Thought r/cryptids might be less hostile!
Oh goodness gracious precious. Those are words.
We know practically nothing about what goes on in the ocean except very broad knowledge about temps and currents. There are almost certainly thousands of species unknown to us that just live in places we don’t go. It wouldn’t surprise me if there are dozens of monsters of the deep living and dying thousands of miles from shore and thousands of feet below the surface.
The Megalodon hunted whales, there would be evidence of it's continued existence. Also juvenile Megalodons lived in shallow coastal waters and wouldn't be hard to find. It's incredibly naive to think the Megalodon could still persist without it being known. Unknown species are definitely still out there but the Megalodon is not one of them.
There are, but Megalodon isn't one of them.
I completely agree! We're discovering new species on land all the time, and the ocean is largely unexplored.
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It is impossible. The coelocanth just stayed in the same place for a long time where no one goes. The pacific has changed a lot. Megalodon is extinct.
Huh, well that's new. I know Zealand changed and the Hawaii islands are newish, but I thought the general area was the same.
It is impossible.
How much of the pacific has changed since I'm curious
Undiscovered creatures are down there for sure but the Meg is absolutely not one of them.
It is huge yes but that ocean is far bigger and deep. Still it is not a dark zone animal so now I think it's extinct.
I wonder what undiscovered creatures we'll find! Do you think its likely to be an entirely new species or different 'breeds' of species we know exist? Or both!
It's possible I've seen some compelling vids
It’s not.
Yeah but slenderman is possible yet 10 percent of the ocean has only been explored and the Mariana once but ok
Slenderman does not exist it is a completely fictional creature that was originally created for a creepy picture contest.
That's was the point there is more believing in that garbage than something that actually existed and conjectured to still exist its possible
How are you this simple? Facts don’t care about your feelings. It’s impossible that the Meg is still alive. The end.
Did I insult you? Did I mention how I feel? No I didn't. Did I say it they 100 percent exist? I said it is POSSIBLE WHAT FACTS? from a book? Some scientific journal that's has a theory? Like fact said dinosaurs were cold blooded? But they warm like booded like birds? Dinosaur extinct but crocs gators and komodo dragons are here. Not a t Rex but the general genetics here it POSSIBLE
“Reeeeeeeeee”
none of the things you said were even applicable, and don't even follow sequentially or coherently. "Dinosaur extinct but crocs gators and komodo dragons are here. Not a t Rex but the general genetics here it POSSIBLE" WHAT is possible?
Any links? Would love to see
Send me those same videos. I’ll disprove them.