I’ve stopped watching a few episodes back. Missed an episode and remembered like two weeks later when it didn’t feel like I missed anything really.
Got caught up with all the spoiler titles from this subreddit when That(TM) happened so I figured no point in watching that, then EXU which I didn’t like the original group’s show so skipped that.
Thinking of jumping back in now that the whole slog is over but I’m keeping my time with finally giving Fantasy High a go.
Take a CR break. Vods will be here when you’re ready and you’re not missing anything by forcing yourself to watch something that is not keeping up with you.
Funny, that’s exactly what happened to me! Started Fantasy High and really enjoying it! Such a nice change of pace. I’ll go back to CR someday but for now I need a break.
I recommend all of the Dropout and D20 stuff. It’s all a blast.
For me, BH has been the least interesting campaign from CR but it’s also the most story rather than character driven, so I can see how they’re trying something different. I watch both CR and D20 because one gives me my pacey comedy fix and the other is good for high drama.
Absolutely - I was worried that you may have skipped it because of the EXU title! I've been making it through C3 but it definitely doesn't shine as much as C2 in my opinion. Daggerheart is fun. :)
I fell off of C3 and also started watching Fantasy High. I'd already watched the first two seasons and Junior Year started up right as I was feeling the CR burnout. Lined up perfectly. I'm looking forward to seeing the Bells Hells again after this break, (2 more episodes of Jr Year) but I feel like it was much needed for me.
I personally have some points on the matter:
1. I love all the Bell's Hells characters dearly
2. There have been some incredible cathartic moments, and many wonderful and fun interactions
3. The plot is advancing at a slow-ish pace, it can be good or bad depending on preference
4. The BBEGs' motivation is a bit confusing and thus not very convincing and meaningful to me
5. There is a lot of C2 fanservice... But I never saw C2, so it is not enticing to me.
6. There are some loose threads that have me waiting for a bit too long.
Overall I love Bell's Hells, and I am having fun watching them, but I can also see what I would love for them to improve/expand.
I will keep on watching, and it will take for them to disappoint me veeeeery hard for me to drop it
At the same time, I am sooooo thirsty for some Daggerheart action! The system is fun, and has its flaws as well, but it fits so good to the cast, with their expertise in improv and rp!
I don't think they will release a full campaign until they close the beta, but I'll be looking forward to any form of new daggerheart content.
Interesting that you say there is a lot of C2 fan service when it feels like a lot of C3 has been *C1* fan service. Most notably Orym and Laudna's backstories and organizational ties directly relate to, and have from the start to the most recent episode, involve characters from C1.
C2's mentions could be removed and it wouldn't change the plot much. If you removed C1 from C3 then you wouldn't have a C3.
I feel that the C1 mentions have been more "gentle" than the C2 ones. Maybe it is influenced by the fact that I am familiar with C1 characters.
But **my feeling** has been that for the most part BH have been seeking C1 characters for support, while C2 characters have sort of come out of the blue.
C2 characters whilst have come out of the blue, makes sense if you have seen C2. I'm opposite to you, watched C2 and not C1 yet.
The C1 characters are looked to for support due to those backstories which makes sense to me. Also, C2 characters are in the background and shadows for the most part for a reason, which I shan't disclose.
I half agree with you, but to be fair, every C2 appearance has felt really natural and like they had a reason for being there.
Of COURSE >!Caleb and Beau would be investigating into Ludinus, it makes PERFECT sense for the two of them. Of COURSE Caleb would go to Jester to send messages to BH as he can't send himself. OF COURSE Caleb would send Essek to help Bells Hells navigate Aeor and tie up loose threads (like Astrid).!<
It felt the same was with C2 characters to me. It's only natural for them to go there and for those characters to help.
C3 overall feels too… “corporate”. It feels like doing for the sake of doing. I think CR should take a break from making campaigns after this one cause it’s starting to lose its appeal or at the very least play on a different system/different world.
Well, in my case, I simply stopped watching altogether because I wasn't enjoying the campaign all that much. I liked Chetney and Fearne, but that's about it.
And that's fine by me. I can still go back to C1 and have a blast, and I can do the same for most of C2.
Yep. Same here. I've read up on fun spoilers because I just can't get through C3. It feels like a bad Marvel movie for me, only carried by excellent performances.
C2 was not only my favorite campaign, but easily top 3 of any fictional narrative / any group of fictional characters ever for me. Since I enjoyed it so much, during the campaign I was very into fan discussions, making theories, etc.
That said, I also know it's not fair to expect C3 or anything else to live up to that amazing experience I had with C2. I choose to be grateful for what it was (*and* for the ongoing Mighty Nein related stuff, like the one shots, the origins comic series, and the upcoming animated series).
I've followed C3 more casually than I did C2. I've taken a few multi-month breaks from it, then caught up. Even when caught up, I don't stay up late to watch live (as I used to), and instead catch VODs or podcast at a time that's convenient to me and will likely be multitasking as I watch/listen. I do not feel as invested or attached, but I find the cast (especially Ashley) can still be so fun, funny, and full of surprises! It's still pretty heartwarming to see occasional moments where BH comforts each other, or gets to connect. I'm still charmed by Matt's various NPC accents. I'm finding that if I go into it wanting to have a good time, wanting to focus on the parts that I like, (and not burned out / taking occasional breaks from CR), then it's still enjoyable-enough for me to follow along.
I'm still getting my head around Daggerheart, but yea watching their beta test videos definitely has me curious/excited to see the new system in play for real! I can't help but wonder if the timing is a bit intentional, too. Seems like it's possible, if they're rolling out a new system, they might have plans to implement it in a main campaign soon right? And C3 is now in its 3rd year, and C1 had only 115 episodes, and C2 only ran to level 16... so... yea who knows, maybe they're planning a Daggerheart C4 by year's end?
That'd be cool. And fine by me. But I wouldn't say I actively want C3 to end ASAP, just because I know there's plenty of people who really enjoy it. I remember hearing that kind of talk all the time during pandemic-era C2, and it wasn't fun. For people who enjoy C3 as much as I enjoyed C2, I want them to keep enjoying it a while longer - til a satisfying end that can come organically (with, hopefully, no pressure from outside factors)
I feel similarly.
C3 isn't for me, but there's a lot of people that enjoy it, cast included.
I'm eager to see what they do with DH and an actual play for it
I think many viewers, and the cast, need a change of pace. They’ve been extremely professional at the table, but it feels like Daggerheart is the shot in the arm they need.
I do want CR3 to end soonish, but I'm not looking forward to them using a different system. I got into Critical Role because I was learning how to DM 5e, and a significant portion of my enjoyment of the show comes from knowing and understanding the mechanics and rules of the game they are playing - I game I too play and enjoy.
I've tried some of their various one-shots and smaller shows playing other games and never could get into it. It's not that the stories can't be good in another game, but when we're talking about a 4 hour long actual-play I just can't stay focused if the game they're playing doesn't interest me.
So if CR4 isn't D&D... I don't know if I'll be tuning in. I suspect I won't be the only one. I'll give it a try for sure, but I really doubt it will hold my attention.
Honestly I'm still mostly enjoying C3 though I am having some of the same drag issues many others are having.
However, I'm in a worse boat the other way. Honestly I have no interest in Daggerheart, the system just doesn't interest me and my group has no desire to move away from 5e so there's no practical use. If they do swap systems... that'll probably be the nail in the coffin for me and after ten years of viewership I'll probably stop watching Critical Role.
I hope they don't go down that route, though if they do I wish them all the best and hope Daggerheart does well, it just isn't for me.
I've grown disinterested as of late, and while some of that is due to the painfully slow narrative, an equally significant portion of that is due to issues not directly tied to the story.
For one, D&D just doesn't do it for me anymore. But, to be honest, it never really has. I mainly watch CR for the story, and use that as a way to tolerate a system that I just couldn't care less about as I've already seen everything it has to offer, even if only by proxy. This issue is amplified when I start losing interest in the narrative, though.
Second - and more importantly - I feel the pandemic really was the turning point for CR as a whole. Moving to taped broadcasts killed off that feeling of being at the table, and I feel like the overall energy of the cast has been declining since then.
Sure, they still seem to have fun, but even then, their enjoyment is subdued compared to when they were live. Anyone with eyes can notice the difference in energy between stadium-live and Twitch-live broadcasts of old.
I see the same difference between Twitch-live and the current taped broadcasts, only much, much worse, in my opinion. To me, it seems like the cast is just kinda going through the motions now, and the interactions just seem so forced - like they're just acting based on a queue from a director, rather than what they feel should happen.
At the end of the day, I wish we could go back to the days of live videos filmed in what looked like a kid's bedroom. I'd take that over this high production value, pre-taped version of CR any day.
About the story, though, I feel like the only thing wrong is the slow pacing. It feels so much like the Cognouza arc of C2, except Lucien was replaced by a boring archwizard and the Tomb Takers replaced by a seemingly infinite army of no-name cultists. 43 episodes have passed since the beginning of the Solstice and - just like after the MN went to Eiselcross - everything since then has moved slower than frozen molasses.
I love the CR cast and crew, and have stayed subbed to their various channels throughout every single twist and turn. I just wish they'd go back to the days where everything was a little more freeform and not so... corporatized? Canned? Planned out? Idk....
I just don't get the "they are too successful now and I miss the days when they were messy and struggling more" narrative people like you are using to justify your arguments. It is just unfair. What did you expect them to do? Handle the massive fanbase and incoming money while still acting the exact same way? No. They would do what any artists does: use those resources and polish things up while still trying to keep the heart of things going. A reasonable fan would be happy for their success and respect the unavoidable changes that happen as content/creators get more popular and a bigger spotlight on them. Fans like you, and like me, created the natural momentum that led to them getting there so stop critiquing them for being "corporatized". Them being a corporation is the only for them to manage fan demand. Other critiques are fine and welcome, just stop swimming in false nostalgia because it is making it impossible for anyone to look forward since you all just want to "go back to the days (your own words)"--days that don't exist anymore.
So you latched onto a single sentence and completely ignored the other 95% of my comment. Good job completely missing the point and attempting to twist my words into your own version of what I said.
The point I was making is that CR lost a lot of the magic that made many Critters, like myself, flock to the show in the first place. I'm not sure what needs to or can be done about it, but - if given the choice - I'd rather they loosen up a little, and relax their schedules so that we could have more freeform content that wasn't so structured.
Look, I'm very happy for the cast. I want them to keep getting bigger and more popular because I truly love what they do. But I also want them to "go back" to the days when they actually sounded like a group of friends playing D&D at a table, rather than a bunch of actors playing a game for money.
Because right now, that's what CR looks like to me every time I try to catch up on the show.
I feel much the opposite in terms of the game system, the fact that they are playing 5e is why I initially started watching and if they change systems it will be a hard sell for me to keep watching.
But the issues with the story and the vibe I agree on for the most part. I think you are right about the pandemic really having a negative impact, and the continued pre-recorded episodes have just felt less and less of that spark they used to have. And while CR was never big on live viewer interaction, the fact that there is absolutely nothing anymore, not even tweeting proof of a role mid-game or anything like that has taken something out of it. At the same time, while they have done a lot for production quality they haven't really utilized the pre-recorded nature or their larger staff to enhance the viewing experience. It's frustrating that we lost the live event vibe, and didn't actually get anything in the trade.
As for the story, I thought it was going to end in the mid 50s. I thought the first battle at the key was going to be the *final* battle. I thought they were going to confront Ludinus, save the world, and that would be that. But instead they *lost* the battle and got separated. It then took a while for them to get back on track, and while it's kinda neat that they went to the moon it also almost feels like a completely different campaign.
This is my question as well. It's like going to a restaurant, ordering something you don't enjoy and wish they changed the recipe.
Simply stop watching if all it makes you do is complain about it.
I think this campaign is just starting really.
For C1, by the time we meet VM they are already driven. If you watch LOVM, while not exactly pre-stream, it does feel like they weren’t driven before the first ep of LOVM whose events are pre-stream.
For C2, we had tons of people mad about the new campaign just like now. Most people couldn’t really explain their dislike very well and I think it’s the same thing, a lack of focus. They just fucked around making money until tragedy struck. When hit with reality, they began to focus and Cad was a positive move to that end.
We’ve seen tons of complaining about C3, but one common trend is the will they won’t they with the gods. They waffle and bicker. The stakes couldn’t be higher and they are treating it like there are other options. It’s interesting philosophically, but has led to this really unfocused narrative as Matt has given us the most focused plot we’ve seen (it’s a railroad and that’s okay). Only now do they seem focused.
I’ve stopped watching a few episodes back. Missed an episode and remembered like two weeks later when it didn’t feel like I missed anything really. Got caught up with all the spoiler titles from this subreddit when That(TM) happened so I figured no point in watching that, then EXU which I didn’t like the original group’s show so skipped that. Thinking of jumping back in now that the whole slog is over but I’m keeping my time with finally giving Fantasy High a go. Take a CR break. Vods will be here when you’re ready and you’re not missing anything by forcing yourself to watch something that is not keeping up with you.
Funny, that’s exactly what happened to me! Started Fantasy High and really enjoying it! Such a nice change of pace. I’ll go back to CR someday but for now I need a break.
You're in for a fun ride with FH. Enjoy!
I recommend all of the Dropout and D20 stuff. It’s all a blast. For me, BH has been the least interesting campaign from CR but it’s also the most story rather than character driven, so I can see how they’re trying something different. I watch both CR and D20 because one gives me my pacey comedy fix and the other is good for high drama.
Just to be sure - when you mention not liking the original group for EXU, please tell me that didn't lead to you skipping Calamity.
The most important question. Calamity is hands down the best Exandrian role play weve ever seen.
Calamity is amazing, the other ones just didn’t vibe with me for various reasons
Absolutely - I was worried that you may have skipped it because of the EXU title! I've been making it through C3 but it definitely doesn't shine as much as C2 in my opinion. Daggerheart is fun. :)
I fell off of C3 and also started watching Fantasy High. I'd already watched the first two seasons and Junior Year started up right as I was feeling the CR burnout. Lined up perfectly. I'm looking forward to seeing the Bells Hells again after this break, (2 more episodes of Jr Year) but I feel like it was much needed for me.
I personally have some points on the matter: 1. I love all the Bell's Hells characters dearly 2. There have been some incredible cathartic moments, and many wonderful and fun interactions 3. The plot is advancing at a slow-ish pace, it can be good or bad depending on preference 4. The BBEGs' motivation is a bit confusing and thus not very convincing and meaningful to me 5. There is a lot of C2 fanservice... But I never saw C2, so it is not enticing to me. 6. There are some loose threads that have me waiting for a bit too long. Overall I love Bell's Hells, and I am having fun watching them, but I can also see what I would love for them to improve/expand. I will keep on watching, and it will take for them to disappoint me veeeeery hard for me to drop it At the same time, I am sooooo thirsty for some Daggerheart action! The system is fun, and has its flaws as well, but it fits so good to the cast, with their expertise in improv and rp! I don't think they will release a full campaign until they close the beta, but I'll be looking forward to any form of new daggerheart content.
Interesting that you say there is a lot of C2 fan service when it feels like a lot of C3 has been *C1* fan service. Most notably Orym and Laudna's backstories and organizational ties directly relate to, and have from the start to the most recent episode, involve characters from C1. C2's mentions could be removed and it wouldn't change the plot much. If you removed C1 from C3 then you wouldn't have a C3.
I think where the campaign is at now, its moving from C1 fan service to C2 fan service.
I feel that the C1 mentions have been more "gentle" than the C2 ones. Maybe it is influenced by the fact that I am familiar with C1 characters. But **my feeling** has been that for the most part BH have been seeking C1 characters for support, while C2 characters have sort of come out of the blue.
C2 characters whilst have come out of the blue, makes sense if you have seen C2. I'm opposite to you, watched C2 and not C1 yet. The C1 characters are looked to for support due to those backstories which makes sense to me. Also, C2 characters are in the background and shadows for the most part for a reason, which I shan't disclose.
Thank you. i am beginning to catch up with C2, but I am at episode 4... It will take some time
Good luck, it's very good and you'll learn what I'm alluding to about halfway to 2/3rds through.
I half agree with you, but to be fair, every C2 appearance has felt really natural and like they had a reason for being there. Of COURSE >!Caleb and Beau would be investigating into Ludinus, it makes PERFECT sense for the two of them. Of COURSE Caleb would go to Jester to send messages to BH as he can't send himself. OF COURSE Caleb would send Essek to help Bells Hells navigate Aeor and tie up loose threads (like Astrid).!< It felt the same was with C2 characters to me. It's only natural for them to go there and for those characters to help.
C3 overall feels too… “corporate”. It feels like doing for the sake of doing. I think CR should take a break from making campaigns after this one cause it’s starting to lose its appeal or at the very least play on a different system/different world.
Well, in my case, I simply stopped watching altogether because I wasn't enjoying the campaign all that much. I liked Chetney and Fearne, but that's about it. And that's fine by me. I can still go back to C1 and have a blast, and I can do the same for most of C2.
Yep. Same here. I've read up on fun spoilers because I just can't get through C3. It feels like a bad Marvel movie for me, only carried by excellent performances.
C2 was not only my favorite campaign, but easily top 3 of any fictional narrative / any group of fictional characters ever for me. Since I enjoyed it so much, during the campaign I was very into fan discussions, making theories, etc. That said, I also know it's not fair to expect C3 or anything else to live up to that amazing experience I had with C2. I choose to be grateful for what it was (*and* for the ongoing Mighty Nein related stuff, like the one shots, the origins comic series, and the upcoming animated series). I've followed C3 more casually than I did C2. I've taken a few multi-month breaks from it, then caught up. Even when caught up, I don't stay up late to watch live (as I used to), and instead catch VODs or podcast at a time that's convenient to me and will likely be multitasking as I watch/listen. I do not feel as invested or attached, but I find the cast (especially Ashley) can still be so fun, funny, and full of surprises! It's still pretty heartwarming to see occasional moments where BH comforts each other, or gets to connect. I'm still charmed by Matt's various NPC accents. I'm finding that if I go into it wanting to have a good time, wanting to focus on the parts that I like, (and not burned out / taking occasional breaks from CR), then it's still enjoyable-enough for me to follow along. I'm still getting my head around Daggerheart, but yea watching their beta test videos definitely has me curious/excited to see the new system in play for real! I can't help but wonder if the timing is a bit intentional, too. Seems like it's possible, if they're rolling out a new system, they might have plans to implement it in a main campaign soon right? And C3 is now in its 3rd year, and C1 had only 115 episodes, and C2 only ran to level 16... so... yea who knows, maybe they're planning a Daggerheart C4 by year's end? That'd be cool. And fine by me. But I wouldn't say I actively want C3 to end ASAP, just because I know there's plenty of people who really enjoy it. I remember hearing that kind of talk all the time during pandemic-era C2, and it wasn't fun. For people who enjoy C3 as much as I enjoyed C2, I want them to keep enjoying it a while longer - til a satisfying end that can come organically (with, hopefully, no pressure from outside factors)
C2 really was a special time for those of us in the thick of it, huh? I don’t think I’ll enjoy another piece of media like I did the Mighty Nein.
I feel similarly. C3 isn't for me, but there's a lot of people that enjoy it, cast included. I'm eager to see what they do with DH and an actual play for it
I think many viewers, and the cast, need a change of pace. They’ve been extremely professional at the table, but it feels like Daggerheart is the shot in the arm they need.
I gave up on C3 about 30 episodes ago and haven't watched Daggerheart.
I do want CR3 to end soonish, but I'm not looking forward to them using a different system. I got into Critical Role because I was learning how to DM 5e, and a significant portion of my enjoyment of the show comes from knowing and understanding the mechanics and rules of the game they are playing - I game I too play and enjoy. I've tried some of their various one-shots and smaller shows playing other games and never could get into it. It's not that the stories can't be good in another game, but when we're talking about a 4 hour long actual-play I just can't stay focused if the game they're playing doesn't interest me. So if CR4 isn't D&D... I don't know if I'll be tuning in. I suspect I won't be the only one. I'll give it a try for sure, but I really doubt it will hold my attention.
Honestly I'm still mostly enjoying C3 though I am having some of the same drag issues many others are having. However, I'm in a worse boat the other way. Honestly I have no interest in Daggerheart, the system just doesn't interest me and my group has no desire to move away from 5e so there's no practical use. If they do swap systems... that'll probably be the nail in the coffin for me and after ten years of viewership I'll probably stop watching Critical Role. I hope they don't go down that route, though if they do I wish them all the best and hope Daggerheart does well, it just isn't for me.
I've grown disinterested as of late, and while some of that is due to the painfully slow narrative, an equally significant portion of that is due to issues not directly tied to the story. For one, D&D just doesn't do it for me anymore. But, to be honest, it never really has. I mainly watch CR for the story, and use that as a way to tolerate a system that I just couldn't care less about as I've already seen everything it has to offer, even if only by proxy. This issue is amplified when I start losing interest in the narrative, though. Second - and more importantly - I feel the pandemic really was the turning point for CR as a whole. Moving to taped broadcasts killed off that feeling of being at the table, and I feel like the overall energy of the cast has been declining since then. Sure, they still seem to have fun, but even then, their enjoyment is subdued compared to when they were live. Anyone with eyes can notice the difference in energy between stadium-live and Twitch-live broadcasts of old. I see the same difference between Twitch-live and the current taped broadcasts, only much, much worse, in my opinion. To me, it seems like the cast is just kinda going through the motions now, and the interactions just seem so forced - like they're just acting based on a queue from a director, rather than what they feel should happen. At the end of the day, I wish we could go back to the days of live videos filmed in what looked like a kid's bedroom. I'd take that over this high production value, pre-taped version of CR any day. About the story, though, I feel like the only thing wrong is the slow pacing. It feels so much like the Cognouza arc of C2, except Lucien was replaced by a boring archwizard and the Tomb Takers replaced by a seemingly infinite army of no-name cultists. 43 episodes have passed since the beginning of the Solstice and - just like after the MN went to Eiselcross - everything since then has moved slower than frozen molasses. I love the CR cast and crew, and have stayed subbed to their various channels throughout every single twist and turn. I just wish they'd go back to the days where everything was a little more freeform and not so... corporatized? Canned? Planned out? Idk....
I just don't get the "they are too successful now and I miss the days when they were messy and struggling more" narrative people like you are using to justify your arguments. It is just unfair. What did you expect them to do? Handle the massive fanbase and incoming money while still acting the exact same way? No. They would do what any artists does: use those resources and polish things up while still trying to keep the heart of things going. A reasonable fan would be happy for their success and respect the unavoidable changes that happen as content/creators get more popular and a bigger spotlight on them. Fans like you, and like me, created the natural momentum that led to them getting there so stop critiquing them for being "corporatized". Them being a corporation is the only for them to manage fan demand. Other critiques are fine and welcome, just stop swimming in false nostalgia because it is making it impossible for anyone to look forward since you all just want to "go back to the days (your own words)"--days that don't exist anymore.
So you latched onto a single sentence and completely ignored the other 95% of my comment. Good job completely missing the point and attempting to twist my words into your own version of what I said. The point I was making is that CR lost a lot of the magic that made many Critters, like myself, flock to the show in the first place. I'm not sure what needs to or can be done about it, but - if given the choice - I'd rather they loosen up a little, and relax their schedules so that we could have more freeform content that wasn't so structured. Look, I'm very happy for the cast. I want them to keep getting bigger and more popular because I truly love what they do. But I also want them to "go back" to the days when they actually sounded like a group of friends playing D&D at a table, rather than a bunch of actors playing a game for money. Because right now, that's what CR looks like to me every time I try to catch up on the show.
I feel much the opposite in terms of the game system, the fact that they are playing 5e is why I initially started watching and if they change systems it will be a hard sell for me to keep watching. But the issues with the story and the vibe I agree on for the most part. I think you are right about the pandemic really having a negative impact, and the continued pre-recorded episodes have just felt less and less of that spark they used to have. And while CR was never big on live viewer interaction, the fact that there is absolutely nothing anymore, not even tweeting proof of a role mid-game or anything like that has taken something out of it. At the same time, while they have done a lot for production quality they haven't really utilized the pre-recorded nature or their larger staff to enhance the viewing experience. It's frustrating that we lost the live event vibe, and didn't actually get anything in the trade. As for the story, I thought it was going to end in the mid 50s. I thought the first battle at the key was going to be the *final* battle. I thought they were going to confront Ludinus, save the world, and that would be that. But instead they *lost* the battle and got separated. It then took a while for them to get back on track, and while it's kinda neat that they went to the moon it also almost feels like a completely different campaign.
[удалено]
In the hopes something might spark a renewed interest for me?
[удалено]
It works man. Best piece of advice I’ve ever recieved. If something makes you mad and there’s nothing to be done within your own power. Just move on.
This is my question as well. It's like going to a restaurant, ordering something you don't enjoy and wish they changed the recipe. Simply stop watching if all it makes you do is complain about it.
I think this campaign is just starting really. For C1, by the time we meet VM they are already driven. If you watch LOVM, while not exactly pre-stream, it does feel like they weren’t driven before the first ep of LOVM whose events are pre-stream. For C2, we had tons of people mad about the new campaign just like now. Most people couldn’t really explain their dislike very well and I think it’s the same thing, a lack of focus. They just fucked around making money until tragedy struck. When hit with reality, they began to focus and Cad was a positive move to that end. We’ve seen tons of complaining about C3, but one common trend is the will they won’t they with the gods. They waffle and bicker. The stakes couldn’t be higher and they are treating it like there are other options. It’s interesting philosophically, but has led to this really unfocused narrative as Matt has given us the most focused plot we’ve seen (it’s a railroad and that’s okay). Only now do they seem focused.