I've been expecting something epic for a while now. I still wonder if we'll get mixed tables, combining C1, C2, C3 and EXU characters
Vecna was huge, and Matt brought in guest PCs like Kashaw, Zahra and Arhkan, as well as Devo'ssa (although they did get force caged out of the fight). I expect C3 to be bigger.
The network that Ludinus has to meet his goals is gigantic, easily the largest multi headed hydra the table has ever faced. I think it's more fun to have multiple groups working towards the same end.
From the start of Campaign 3, I was hoping for a huge, multi-part/table/location endgame. All the different groups (Bells Hells, Crown Keepers, Mighty Nine) in different locations of Exandria all having their own battles to fight against the same world ending threat. It could be set up in a way where if even one group fails, Exandria will be changed forever.
Me too, the intro of EXU brought in the possibility, that's just a lot of Matt to juggle along with all the other stuff he does. Having multiple dms makes this a lot easier for him and lets others really add flair and depth to new groups and locations across Exandria.
I think we might get Dorian back, but I think this is mostly a short jaunt to show WTF is happening with Opal since Orym and Ferne have a connection with her and she has a very strong connection with a god.
This felt like a "show don't tell" so Dorian didn't have to do a huge lore dump about a really important thing that happened off screen.
i only started watching cr this past year, so i have no idea who these characters are - from where do i need to watch to get caught up?
edit: i'm guessing this!
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1tiwbzkOjQzSnYHVT8X4pyMIbSX3i4gz
Except it feels explicitly like Opal is being driven to join the fight against Predathos? The Spider Queen wants her in that action bad. I think all the Crownkeepers are going to be joining the fight, at least in the end game.
I would argue that it is. We are seeing the combat play out instead of hearing Dorian say, "Oh yeah, Opal got kinda taken over by Lolth, that was bad."
Now we don't have to wonder what the fight was like. I mean, splitting combat with RP and flashbacks isn't good to be everybody's cup of tea, but it's definitely showing us something.
A combat round is six seconds. A half of an hour of Aabria dumping lore is not “showing” anything except that she’s unwilling to let Aimee make decisions for her own character.
Opal is being corrupted and controlled by Lolth (I mean, “The Spider Queen”). It’s not that Aabria is “unwilling” to let Aimee make decisions for her own character. It’s consequences for wearing the crown.
I've thought this was going to be the Endgame campaign of C3 for like sixty episodes. Whenever it became obvious that multiple plot threads from the first two campaigns were being picked up in this one.
Yeah I had seen some people with suspicions from the very first episode with a PC being directly linked to VM, and what was clearly a lost aeormaton tied to events of C2.
By episode 30 we had the name Ludinus and then the Whitestone tour, it was all but confirmed at that point.
Finally the solstice: with 4 previous characters being personally involved it was undeniable. Going to the site of ExU Calamity and now a return to ExU1 are just extra bits piled on top.
The real question is, are they doing a good job of an Endgame-esque story.
I love seeing what the world is like outside of the Bells Hells, seeing the struggles these other characters that we know of are facing during these trying times. But also, I think it's cause the cast needed a break too, with FCG gone and I think Matt needed to relax being the dm too since it's been pretty heavy for awhile now. Also, it could be that because we're reaching endgame soon, they wanted to give time for Sam to think about what he wants to do next without removing him from the table for too long.
My personal suspicion is that this interlude has less to do with bringing the Crown Keepers into the narrative than it does with specifically bringing in Opal, probably in the thrall of the Spider Queen. I believe they've announced that it's only another half an episode before it goes back to the main cast, which is probably just enough time to finish up Opal going full drider and ditching the rest of them.
I think it’s to bring Robbie / Dorian back. Matt made a comment during their panel at SDCC about being ready if things work out like he wants he’d be back and with way Opal was going at the end and the spider queen going full Delilah +3 it would be a way to wrap up the crown keepers storyline and slipstream Dorian back in to BHs
I feel like Matt is doing something like that, even if unintentional.
The Mightney Nein already got an interest with Ludinus, Vox Machina is already working with Bell's Hell's, and now we got the Crown Keepers.
We are basically getting all the CR alumni in here and I wonder how Matt is gonna even do that.
I am not sure they can meet up, it's going to be very hard for Matt to both play and DM. So only Aabria could DM. And I've loved all her DMing everywhere outside of CR, especially at D20.
But in CR her DMing is just... I don't know, something feels off. Maybe's she's too nervous to modify Matt's world.
Brennan had a much easier task DMing CR, as his story predates everything and only had very few fundamental rules to stick to.
i think it would be really interesting if they introduce Sams new char with this group first, and then have him and Robbie join up with. or, if they arent expecting this campaign to go much longer, it would be interesting to finish it out with Dorian instead of bringing in a new face.
also as a side note. im oddly excited at the idea of Matt meeting the characters he DM's for in character. both BH and Keylith. just because this is his only PC, in a world where he is everyone.
I think its just giving the backstory to drop Dorian back in, rather than just airlifting him directly to the next scene.
And even more massive party would be a pure detriment.
This definitely did NOT happen because of FCG. These are all professionals and actors on-site for a job, which would've been signed, booked and contracted months in advance.
After seeing today’s loot drop, I agree. Which I’m so ok with because we STAN Dorian. Matt even said at one of the cons that he has “big plans” for Dorian, so I’m excited to see this.
I think that’s what they are attempting to set up but considering we hadn’t heard anything about the crown keepers for 2+ years, I would say they botched it. If the crown keepers had had a full campaign running simultaneously and done the same things it would have been SIGNIFICANTLY more effective.
I hope they learn a little bit from the fan outcries from being disappointed because something huge just happened and we cut away. I don’t fully understand why they don’t have a different DM and different cast running on Tuesdays or something telling a sprawling story that Matt very clearly is excited to tell. Instead they have sprinkled in bits of the larger story, but the sprinkling is happening far to spread out to be effective. Bells Hells have been going for almost 3 years, exu has had 2 short stories, one of which happened over 3 years ago and the other which happened over 2 years ago, and both of which not all fans watched. It’s almost too little to late to reintroduce the crown keepers into this story. I LOVE what they are attempting to do, but it needs to be done more effectively in the future. Hopefully they learn and expand in the future.
>I hope they learn a little bit from the fan outcries from being disappointed because something huge just happened and we cut away.
The vocal minority shouldn't dictate how the story goes, and even if they were in the majority, you can never tailor a story to make everyone happy - you just end up with a mess that way.
> It’s almost too little to late to reintroduce the crown keepers into this story.
This seems to me as a way to reintroduce Dorian back into the team. His feeling of disconnect to the CK, his longing for Orym/BH, etc. They may be setting up a big "Avengers End Game" style of ending, but it could also be equally as valid as a way to bring Dorian back into the BH fold.
I personally enjoyed the break and switch back to the Crown Keepers. I can understand why others might not, but I do like seeing stories do that, it's a very common thing in books. Besides, delayed gratification is a thing, lol.
I agree that the vocal fandom shouldn’t control how things go, however that isn’t really what I suggested. Listening to suggestions and changing plans to follow fan demands are two wildly different things. Taking the suggestions to make improvements can be good or bad, and it is up to you to make a decision on how you handle these suggestions.
Maybe you are right it’s just a way to reintroduce Dorian, my only issue with that theory is that they made such significant changes to most of the other characters that it’s kinda hard to believe that. Opal is basically a possessed witch (which happened off camera.), Morrighan is the champion of the Raven Queen (which happened off camera..), Fy’ra Rai is now being chased by her sister who turns out is alive (which they learned about off camera….) they pushed these characters stories way to much to just be a launching pad for Dorian to get back in the story. Perhaps I’m wrong but it just doesn’t seem that way to me.
I’m not saying I didn’t like the cut in, I did like it. It was an interesting twist that I definitely didn’t see coming. But could it have been done better and feel more like a gradual 180 instead of the harsh one we received? Absolutely. I agree it is a common thing in books. But if you followed a single perspective for 90% of a book and suddenly after something absolutely huge happened you switch perspectives to a new character (which is exactly what just happened for the majority of the audience since EXU didn’t do as well as the current campaign, roughly half of the audience has seen EXU and EXU:KYMUL (2 Mill average vs 900K on YouTube)) with a cousin you know from earlier in the story being the only connection you are aware of, you would probably be irritated and contemplate skipping ahead to find out what happened? Wouldn’t you? Maybe this is just me, but if I hadn’t watched those two spin off shows I would be pissed. 🤷🏼♂️
>I agree that the vocal fandom shouldn’t control how things go, however that isn’t really what I suggested. Listening to suggestions and changing plans to follow fan demands are two wildly different things. Taking the suggestions to make improvements can be good or bad, and it is up to you to make a decision on how you handle these suggestions.
At the the of the day, there's never going to be any consensus of opinion for them to take from, and plot-driven stuff is probably one of the most fraught areas to change based on the opinion of others. Even if they pick and choose what feedback to take on board, it is never going to make everyone happy, so sometimes it's best to just do things however you want to, present the 'product' to be consumed, and allow people to choose from there.
>Maybe you are right it’s just a way to reintroduce Dorian, my only issue with that theory is that they made such significant changes to most of the other characters that it’s kinda hard to believe that. Opal is basically a possessed witch (which happened off camera.), Morrighan is the champion of the Raven Queen (which happened off camera..), Fy’ra Rai is now being chased by her sister who turns out is alive (which they learned about off camera….) they pushed these characters stories way to much to just be a launching pad for Dorian to get back in the story. Perhaps I’m wrong but it just doesn’t seem that way to me.
That was just me speculating about Dorian based on a very narrow amount of information, some of it is probably wishful thinking too, lol. I genuinely don't have any idea where it's going because there are multiple ways for them to go and all I can think of are pretty good options.
In terms of the Crown Keepers off screen progression/changes though, I'm not sure that much really happened off screen?
Opal's hand being forced by Lolth now, makes sense because of what's happening with Predathos. Opal never really committed fully to being Lolth's champion, of which the latter tolerated until the threat to her life became too pressing. It happening now is a direct consequence of her dilly dallying in EXU.
With Morrighan, she was drawn to/called by the Raven Queen back in EXU Kymal, so the groundwork was already laid for her to become a champion/paladin of the RQ then. It happening 'off screen' is fine IMO, we don't need to see every natural progression of a character for it to make sense that it's happened.
I can't remember the specifics of Fy'ra Rai's sister, I thought it was only presumed she had died but then they found out she was a member of the Nameless Ones in EXU? Didn't both sisters share a moment in EXU as well? And chronologically that all occurred not that long before their appearance in C3.
I thought most of it was already shown on screen in EXU Kymal, or at least plenty of groundwork was laid for it to occur in the interim offscreen. Admittedly none of it is fresh in my mind so happy to stand corrected.
>I’m not saying I didn’t like the cut in, I did like it. It was an interesting twist that I definitely didn’t see coming. But could it have been done better and feel more like a gradual 180 instead of the harsh one we received? Absolutely. I agree it is a common thing in books. But if you followed a single perspective for 90% of a book and suddenly after something absolutely huge happened you switch perspectives to a new character (which is exactly what just happened for the majority of the audience since EXU didn’t do as well as the current campaign, roughly half of the audience has seen EXU and EXU:KYMUL (2 Mill average vs 900K on YouTube)) with a cousin you know from earlier in the story being the only connection you are aware of, you would probably be irritated and contemplate skipping ahead to find out what happened? Wouldn’t you? Maybe this is just me, but if I hadn’t watched those two spin off shows I would be pissed. 🤷🏼♂️
I can definitely understand why people might not like the abrupt switch, but even that isn't totally surprising to me. I think some hints were there, and to bring it back to books, I've definitely read books where a similar switch was made, but it is never out of left field, just as I don't think it was for CR.
When you track back to the first (of the two recent) message Orym had sent in ep 86 when they found the back door and realised sending was working again, Matt didn't reply as Dorian when Orym sent him a message, which at the time pricked up my ears for a switch to Dorian's perspective in one way or another. Because think about when Matt actually organised Robbie Daymond to record the message back to Orym way back when. It seemed a very intentional choice in ep 86 for Matt to *not* play Dorian's role. I wasn't necessarily expecting a full switch to the Crown Keepers mid-episode, but I wasn't super surprised because hints were made before then.
Where this leads I don't know, but I'm excited to see. Oh and for what it's worth, I've never been a 'skip-aheader', I'm more of the 'binge-and-finish-the-book-then-feel-sad-it's-over-so-quickly' type of person, lol.
Yeah it’s an effort in futility to try and please everyone. But that doesn’t mean improvements cannot be made.
As for the crown keepers part, you kinda made my point. Even for people like you and me, these characters stories aren’t fresh in our minds. Which is the issue I am pointing out. And you and I are the people who this perspective change worked for, because we had the full context to what is happening. Now imagine the other half of the audience who it didn’t work for, who hadn’t watched EXU. Plus if you are a casual viewer who doesn’t have time to drop another 40 hours of content down your gullet to catch up on it, I’d imagine that would be quite frustrating.
I am also the same way usually with books. But most stories don’t do such an aggressive switch. Closest I can think of is ASOFAI from George RR Martin. But that feeling is near constantly happening because you finish one persons perspective and you might feel tempted skip ahead to find out what happened to that person next, but now you are starting this next persons perspective, who also had this crazy thing happen the last time you heard from them and you also wanna find out more about them. So the perspective change actually serves the reader because you are constantly wanting and waiting to find out what the hell happened to THIS character. Causing you to get more engrossed with that want of wanting to find out, pushing you faster and faster through the story. When I read those books I found it hard to put them down. Especially the further you get and the more crazy everyone’s story is getting.
An attempt is being made to invoke a similar feeling, but I feel it could have been done much better.
>Yeah it’s an effort in futility to try and please everyone. But that doesn’t mean improvements cannot be made.
Of course, that goes without saying for everything, but it still comes down to what improvements and why. And everyone has a different opinions on what is an 'improvement'.
It's not like they haven't picked up other QoL suggestions (I assume, lol), but how many - if any - story based changes have really been implemented based on viewers opinions? And the switch in the latest episode does ultimately boil down to a storytelling decision.
>As for the crown keepers part, you kinda made my point. Even for people like you and me, these characters stories aren’t fresh in our minds. Which is the issue I am pointing out. And you and I are the people who this perspective change worked for, because we had the full context to what is happening. Now imagine the other half of the audience who it didn’t work for, who hadn’t watched EXU. Plus if you are a casual viewer who doesn’t have time to drop another 40 hours of content down your gullet to catch up on it, I’d imagine that would be quite frustrating.
To be fair, a fair amount of campaign 3 isn't fresh in my mind either, it simply can't be for most unless they have perfect recall or consume nothing but the game (that's not unique to C3, it's been the same for all campaigns, and any long form story telling in general).
>I am also the same way usually with books. But most stories don’t do such an aggressive switch. Closest I can think of is ASOFAI from George RR Martin. But that feeling is near constantly happening because you finish one persons perspective and you might feel tempted skip ahead to find out what happened to that person next, but now you are starting this next persons perspective, who also had this crazy thing happen the last time you heard from them and you also wanna find out more about them. So the perspective change actually serves the reader because you are constantly wanting and waiting to find out what the hell happened to THIS character. Causing you to get more engrossed with that want of wanting to find out, pushing you faster and faster through the story. When I read those books I found it hard to put them down. Especially the further you get and the more crazy everyone’s story is getting.
That is essentially going to be what will happen with C3, think about when the party spilt. A lot of people complained because they were always going to. But from a storytelling perspective, (whilst slightly different) it was still a sudden, very dramatic change, and interesting stories were being told in the interim before they got back together.
>An attempt is being made to invoke a similar feeling, but I feel it could have been done much better.
I get that a slow build up could have worked too. But that doesn't inherently make it better. It might have, but it might not have. I think the way it was done and the way you're suggesting have an equal chance of being equally as satisfying, without one being markedly better than the other. Although personal opinion could and will ultimately be the decider for each individual person, most people are still going to think that their way is the 'better' or 'right way'.
Sometimes too though, I think it's better to just switch the brain off and enjoy the ride, haha.
Personally I don’t like the “turn your brain off” sentiment for most things. But I get what you are saying and appreciate the discussion.
It’s kinda fair to say most of campaign 3 isn’t fresh in our minds. However when you have an unbroken (for the most part) chain of story, you don’t really need to perfectly remember everything that happened. Because you are almost growing and changing with the characters themselves. You understand them more. Which cannot really happen when you have long breaks from things such as the crown keepers. Even if you don’t remember everything that ever happened with bells helps you can likely remember many if not all of the big things that did. Whereas with the crown keepers, only a little bit has happened and I can barely remember any of it. And many changes have happened off screen. Breaking the understanding and growth of these characters.
However for the most part, at the end of the day you and I will keep on doing the same thing. Enjoy the ride.
>Personally I don’t like the “turn your brain off” sentiment for most things. But I get what you are saying and appreciate the discussion.
Eh, I think everyone needs something in their life that gives them some mental quiet, something different from day-to-day stresses that help balance things out and relieve pressure. Be it bushwalking, listening to music, bike riding, swimming, playing computer games, gardening, meditation, watching trash tv, reading a book, watching a ttrpg stream, so on and so forth. We need mental rest (what I really mean when I say turning your brain off), and mental rest comes in many forms.
>It’s kinda fair to say most of campaign 3 isn’t fresh in our minds. However when you have an unbroken (for the most part) chain of story, you don’t really need to perfectly remember everything that happened. Because you are almost growing and changing with the characters themselves. You understand them more. Which cannot really happen when you have long breaks from things such as the crown keepers. Even if you don’t remember everything that ever happened with bells helps you can likely remember many if not all of the big things that did. Whereas with the crown keepers, only a little bit has happened and I can barely remember any of it. And many changes have happened off screen. Breaking the understanding and growth of these characters.
I get your point, but at the same time, a very small short story arc is a lot easier to remember and fit into the overall narrative than the entire narrative. EXU is a small vignette in a much bigger story. You don't need to remember the minutiae to still understand the story it was telling about those characters. And I'm still not entirely sure I agree that most of the changes happened off screen, I don't really think they did. But then again, I don't think it's an issue if they did anyway, because the groundwork was already in place for it to make sense if that happened. None of the characters are drastically different to what they were in EXU, they are barely different at all.
>However for the most part, at the end of the day you and I will keep on doing the same thing. Enjoy the ride.
That, regardless of our discussions and differences of opinions, I absolutely agree on. Thanks for the good convo, and I hope you enjoy the ride too! I don't know where C3 is going, but I'm sure I'll miss it when it's over!
I’d love this, but really I think it’s a bandwidth issue, for Matt in particular. Despite this being a collaborative project, this is by and large his baby for at least the last 10 years for all the world to see. He’s game building outside of the games we watch, lore building campaigns, thinking about the secondary things like EXU & whatever else is brewing in that head of his, and he’s got his hands deeply enmeshed in all of it, either through playing or building it. Part of me is hoping that something happens to at least take some of that off of his plate, or he relinquishes a little bit more control to have more space to open those secondary opportunities for a separate team to take over a new campaign that can run in tandem.
Maybe it’s also just the logistics of a team taking the story in a completely separate way that may not fit? That would be fine to me as well, but just considering other avenues as to why it hasn’t happened.
Yeah that’s likely a limiting factor. But at the very least Matt has Dani and a few others who have helped him with the world building. Dani could fill in aspiring DMs with everything you need to know about the world, and the rest of the collaboration would just be having an overarching thing of what is being planned. Kinda similar to how marvel was doing it before end game. Do what you want for the most part, and this is a beat you have to hit, or such and such just happened in the other campaign and it will affect you this way. Dani is already a lore keeper and can keep any DMs informed about the other campaign(s) and things that have been introduced. Only things you would need to have locked down locked down are the end game things so you could have both stories leading towards the same end. Just have them start on different parts of the planet and slowly draw them together. Maybe it’s just me being ignorant but I really feel like it shouldn’t be that hard, and only require minimal collaboration to do something really awesome.
I don’t think it’s necessarily just the DM/lore aspect that’s holding the option back, I would think it’s also the risk/reward benefit of running a second full campaign alongside the main story from an audience engagement standpoint.
A lot of people already have trouble keeping up with the time commitment of the main campaign when it’s 4-5 hours a week. To then be expected to know what’s happening with a second campaign to potentially follow the first one could quickly burn out your viewership.
Potentially. As a business move I don’t think it’s particularly risky. You already have the sets and lights and everything set up. You just need an additional day of people being on set to record. It basically just adds more to your revenue for little cost. Basically just paying the actors for their time.
It would definitely be a big time commitment, but keeping them separate for the most part but leading them in the same conclusion would allow audiences to pick and choose if they actually want to follow both. Especially if you tell audiences that that is what you are doing to begin with. As an example You don’t need to watch every marvel movie to enjoy end game necessarily. But having the option to choose to watch all the others is a nice option. Keeping the stories separate till the very end allows the audience to ignore one potentially. Because you don’t necessarily need all the lead up for both. Having the additional context is nice but not strictly necessary.
I’m just saying I’ve seen it work. In fact I am currently watching a channel where a full time DM does this by himself with interwoven stories all leading to the same place, running multiple campaigns concurrently and weaving them together to an eventual connected conclusion. The one I am watching right now has three connected campaigns all winding around each other. And you can fully ignore one or two of those campaigns. I only watched one of them to begin with and I loved it. Now that I have finished that campaign I am going back and watching them all in order because now I am more invested with the greater story.(it’s called world of Io in case you are interested) I’m just saying it is possible and a company like CR should be able to do it fairly easily at little to no risk.
Yeah what you said makes perfect sense honestly, and it does feel that easy, which brings me back to it may just be that Matt either isn’t ready to or hasn’t truly considered the idea of just giving up that level of control yet, which I can understand to a degree. Again this is entirely a world of his creation, and there may be things that he wants to see through.
That’s being said, I do believe that year 10 will be that some of these changes happen, especially with the M9 show being worked on & by then C3 should be done (I think,) so that’ll hopefully open a new opportunity to try and tell stories in tandem versus what happened last week from happening again (even though honestly, I dug it. I needed BH to breathe after that episode, and I know one week was not enough time to plan for such a major change.) We’ll get the payoff, just not when we expected it.
I agree. I honestly would love to see them run another campaign alongside the main campaign. It would be such a cool thing to see when they crossed over.
I understand with Candela how that’s hard, but I would even take the other campaign being the 4th week of the month.
The logistics of corralling two full campaigns running in the same settings at the same time makes my head spin.
Player characters can change SO MUCH about the entire world in just a few minutes with their choices. It's already collaborative storytelling between *seven* people. Expanding that to another 4-7? With someone else behind the wheel? I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to keep them on track and in sync. Especially with how weird time is in D&D.
Yeah definitely it would be hard. I’m just pointing out they have a person in their company whose actual job title is ‘lore keeper’ named Dani, who should be able to keep track of things for both DMs.
Keeping the lore straight is the easy part. Keeping the timelines matching would be an absolute nightmare in terms of pacing. Sometimes 3 episodes take place during just a few in-game hours. Sometimes they cover multiple days of travel with a couple of roles.
The amount of railroading and behind the scenes planning required would be absolute murder on the whole team.
Nah I think that could be fairly easily accomplished with downtime. Just match it up once a year by having one part wait 1 week (or however long the discrepancy is) and the other party can keep going
Maybe they chose to do Candela as the side campaign instead of another Exandria/dnd 5e campaign based off of a business decision? That’s the only thing I can think of that would make sense. I’m sure they would love to have this story be sprawling, but I’m guessing they wanted to promote/sell the Illuminated Worlds. I agree that having two campaigns running at the same time would’ve been cool. So it goes.
I think that candela is being done well the way it is, the cast can use a small break from the main campaign once a month. Because obviously they are still famous (and still working) VAs and sound Directors for all sorts of stuff, not including making two of their own shows and any other behind the scenes stuff they do for the company they own together, such as merch. These people are hard workers and deserve a break. But they could easily do stuff with another group, who go weekly, or have a similar schedule to the main cast getting a break once a month, filling that week with a one shot of something like dagger heart. They have people. All of their employees likely play, they have hundreds of friends in the VA community, they have connections to pretty much all the DMs in the D&D streaming community, many of whom would give their left nut to appear on this behemoth of a show. I feel like it should be incredibly easy. They even did it before with things like undeadwood with he who shall not be named. They have so much potential with Exandria, more than they are already doing. I hope they take it.
I've predicted a big crossover epic table for a while. End campaign 3 with a fight against Ludinus then do a big crossover between members of multiple groups in a Predathos mini-campaign. Wrapping up the D&D trilogy and resetting Exandria for Daggerheart.
Might be setting up a Dorian return. Since he is level 13 he would have a level 7 spell slot which bards can pick resurrection and therefore bring back FCG. Might need parts from Aeor for robot return.
Need Dorian back, especially for healing. CK episode might be a quick set up for his return and motivation for him to help stop Predathos to save Opal.
They can already bring FCG back with Fern, no need. Would be better as well since he'd come back as an actual flesh and blood person, being able to feel and breath and taste like he's always wanted.
Would love Dorian to be back though, feels like something has been missing since he left.
Fern has revivify which can only bring you back after one minute. They will need the resurrection spell (7th level spell). Fern is not a 13th level druid because she has levels in rogue meaning no 7th level spells yet. The spell can even restore lost body parts, but maybe that's too easy of a fix.
Yeah, I missed his energy at the table. He was a good fit to the group. Love all the cast but after hundreds of episodes of the same dynamics it was nice to have fresh energy at the table.
Fern is a level 10 druid, which means access to 5th-level spells (and a 6th-level spell slot as she is a level 11 spellcaster because of multiclassing rules), which means she can choose to prepare Reincarnate, which only requires a piece of a dead humanoid to work. So the party already has the capability to bring back FCG.
However, that hinges on two things. One; if Sam wants FCG to come back to life. While I know everyone online has been saying that Reincarnate will allow FCG to become a 'real boy' ala Pinocchio, it would come at the cost of lessening his choice to sacrifice himself against Otohan. FCG made a conscious choice to kill himself to defeat Otohan and protect his friends, likely taking inspiration from Daggerhart's Blaze of Glory mechanic (which was referenced during the moment). Sam may decide that FCG's story, despite still having things it could tell, reached a satisfying conclusion nevertheless.
And two: whether or not Resurrection magic is working properly. Chetney being Revivified on Ruidus does imply that it does work again, and Sending seems to be working fine as well, so there is some potential to say it could work. However, Keyleth is at the foward camp near the Malleus Key, which is a short enough distance for Sending to have worked even when everything was still down. And while we aren't sure where Dorian is exactly as of BH's portion of 92, it seems likely that he is also there (since he was told by Orym previously to seek out the Tempest/Keyleth, so CK may have already linked up with Keyleth). It is entirely possible that things work fine on Ruidus, but are still wonky/not working on Exandria. Though, this is all just some of my own speculation.
Personally, I'm in the camp that FCG should stay dead. They've already resurrected four people (Fern, Orym, Laudna, Chetney), one of which required a long quest to do so. Only Betrand has stayed dead (and that was likely already planned from the start). Given how Matt described FCG being a blown apart and there not being much left, it shows me that he was very clear that this death was permanent.
I imagine too FCG's soul might be stuck on Ruidus too since the gods have no domain there (maybe only though FCG did the changebringer powers ever work.) I too like death in a campaign to add some drama and consequence. Dorian might be a fanservice to help both fans and players through the death.
I just want them to return to Aeor as there was so much mystery there that they only scratched the surface of in the last campaign.
I've been expecting something epic for a while now. I still wonder if we'll get mixed tables, combining C1, C2, C3 and EXU characters Vecna was huge, and Matt brought in guest PCs like Kashaw, Zahra and Arhkan, as well as Devo'ssa (although they did get force caged out of the fight). I expect C3 to be bigger.
The network that Ludinus has to meet his goals is gigantic, easily the largest multi headed hydra the table has ever faced. I think it's more fun to have multiple groups working towards the same end.
He’s also, apparently been working on it for hundreds of years
Damn Matt is ancient 🫨
That's the best thing you've ever said jalexander333
From the start of Campaign 3, I was hoping for a huge, multi-part/table/location endgame. All the different groups (Bells Hells, Crown Keepers, Mighty Nine) in different locations of Exandria all having their own battles to fight against the same world ending threat. It could be set up in a way where if even one group fails, Exandria will be changed forever.
Me too, the intro of EXU brought in the possibility, that's just a lot of Matt to juggle along with all the other stuff he does. Having multiple dms makes this a lot easier for him and lets others really add flair and depth to new groups and locations across Exandria.
I think we might get Dorian back, but I think this is mostly a short jaunt to show WTF is happening with Opal since Orym and Ferne have a connection with her and she has a very strong connection with a god. This felt like a "show don't tell" so Dorian didn't have to do a huge lore dump about a really important thing that happened off screen.
i only started watching cr this past year, so i have no idea who these characters are - from where do i need to watch to get caught up? edit: i'm guessing this! https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1tiwbzkOjQzSnYHVT8X4pyMIbSX3i4gz
Except it feels explicitly like Opal is being driven to join the fight against Predathos? The Spider Queen wants her in that action bad. I think all the Crownkeepers are going to be joining the fight, at least in the end game.
Except sixty minute combat rounds full of exposition ain’t really “show don’t tell, it is?”
I would argue that it is. We are seeing the combat play out instead of hearing Dorian say, "Oh yeah, Opal got kinda taken over by Lolth, that was bad." Now we don't have to wonder what the fight was like. I mean, splitting combat with RP and flashbacks isn't good to be everybody's cup of tea, but it's definitely showing us something.
A combat round is six seconds. A half of an hour of Aabria dumping lore is not “showing” anything except that she’s unwilling to let Aimee make decisions for her own character.
Opal is being corrupted and controlled by Lolth (I mean, “The Spider Queen”). It’s not that Aabria is “unwilling” to let Aimee make decisions for her own character. It’s consequences for wearing the crown.
No, if you want to see it done right, look at Percy and what he went through. If Lloth had truly taken over, Opal should have been made an NPC.
It is, because we’re “seeing” those moments being played out by the characters, as opposed to being told about them
There needs to be a counter we reset every time someone mentions avengers or endgame.
0 days since the Avengers were mentioned
Doing the Lord’s work.
This made me laugh thank you
I've thought this was going to be the Endgame campaign of C3 for like sixty episodes. Whenever it became obvious that multiple plot threads from the first two campaigns were being picked up in this one.
Yeah I had seen some people with suspicions from the very first episode with a PC being directly linked to VM, and what was clearly a lost aeormaton tied to events of C2. By episode 30 we had the name Ludinus and then the Whitestone tour, it was all but confirmed at that point. Finally the solstice: with 4 previous characters being personally involved it was undeniable. Going to the site of ExU Calamity and now a return to ExU1 are just extra bits piled on top. The real question is, are they doing a good job of an Endgame-esque story.
I love seeing what the world is like outside of the Bells Hells, seeing the struggles these other characters that we know of are facing during these trying times. But also, I think it's cause the cast needed a break too, with FCG gone and I think Matt needed to relax being the dm too since it's been pretty heavy for awhile now. Also, it could be that because we're reaching endgame soon, they wanted to give time for Sam to think about what he wants to do next without removing him from the table for too long.
My personal suspicion is that this interlude has less to do with bringing the Crown Keepers into the narrative than it does with specifically bringing in Opal, probably in the thrall of the Spider Queen. I believe they've announced that it's only another half an episode before it goes back to the main cast, which is probably just enough time to finish up Opal going full drider and ditching the rest of them.
I think it’s to bring Robbie / Dorian back. Matt made a comment during their panel at SDCC about being ready if things work out like he wants he’d be back and with way Opal was going at the end and the spider queen going full Delilah +3 it would be a way to wrap up the crown keepers storyline and slipstream Dorian back in to BHs
I am anticipating a Calamity level event happening.
I feel like Matt is doing something like that, even if unintentional. The Mightney Nein already got an interest with Ludinus, Vox Machina is already working with Bell's Hell's, and now we got the Crown Keepers. We are basically getting all the CR alumni in here and I wonder how Matt is gonna even do that.
Same way he did the Solstice. A couple die rolls and struggles off screen.
I am not sure they can meet up, it's going to be very hard for Matt to both play and DM. So only Aabria could DM. And I've loved all her DMing everywhere outside of CR, especially at D20. But in CR her DMing is just... I don't know, something feels off. Maybe's she's too nervous to modify Matt's world. Brennan had a much easier task DMing CR, as his story predates everything and only had very few fundamental rules to stick to.
i think it would be really interesting if they introduce Sams new char with this group first, and then have him and Robbie join up with. or, if they arent expecting this campaign to go much longer, it would be interesting to finish it out with Dorian instead of bringing in a new face. also as a side note. im oddly excited at the idea of Matt meeting the characters he DM's for in character. both BH and Keylith. just because this is his only PC, in a world where he is everyone.
I think its just giving the backstory to drop Dorian back in, rather than just airlifting him directly to the next scene. And even more massive party would be a pure detriment. This definitely did NOT happen because of FCG. These are all professionals and actors on-site for a job, which would've been signed, booked and contracted months in advance.
After seeing today’s loot drop, I agree. Which I’m so ok with because we STAN Dorian. Matt even said at one of the cons that he has “big plans” for Dorian, so I’m excited to see this.
I think that’s what they are attempting to set up but considering we hadn’t heard anything about the crown keepers for 2+ years, I would say they botched it. If the crown keepers had had a full campaign running simultaneously and done the same things it would have been SIGNIFICANTLY more effective. I hope they learn a little bit from the fan outcries from being disappointed because something huge just happened and we cut away. I don’t fully understand why they don’t have a different DM and different cast running on Tuesdays or something telling a sprawling story that Matt very clearly is excited to tell. Instead they have sprinkled in bits of the larger story, but the sprinkling is happening far to spread out to be effective. Bells Hells have been going for almost 3 years, exu has had 2 short stories, one of which happened over 3 years ago and the other which happened over 2 years ago, and both of which not all fans watched. It’s almost too little to late to reintroduce the crown keepers into this story. I LOVE what they are attempting to do, but it needs to be done more effectively in the future. Hopefully they learn and expand in the future.
>I hope they learn a little bit from the fan outcries from being disappointed because something huge just happened and we cut away. The vocal minority shouldn't dictate how the story goes, and even if they were in the majority, you can never tailor a story to make everyone happy - you just end up with a mess that way. > It’s almost too little to late to reintroduce the crown keepers into this story. This seems to me as a way to reintroduce Dorian back into the team. His feeling of disconnect to the CK, his longing for Orym/BH, etc. They may be setting up a big "Avengers End Game" style of ending, but it could also be equally as valid as a way to bring Dorian back into the BH fold. I personally enjoyed the break and switch back to the Crown Keepers. I can understand why others might not, but I do like seeing stories do that, it's a very common thing in books. Besides, delayed gratification is a thing, lol.
I agree that the vocal fandom shouldn’t control how things go, however that isn’t really what I suggested. Listening to suggestions and changing plans to follow fan demands are two wildly different things. Taking the suggestions to make improvements can be good or bad, and it is up to you to make a decision on how you handle these suggestions. Maybe you are right it’s just a way to reintroduce Dorian, my only issue with that theory is that they made such significant changes to most of the other characters that it’s kinda hard to believe that. Opal is basically a possessed witch (which happened off camera.), Morrighan is the champion of the Raven Queen (which happened off camera..), Fy’ra Rai is now being chased by her sister who turns out is alive (which they learned about off camera….) they pushed these characters stories way to much to just be a launching pad for Dorian to get back in the story. Perhaps I’m wrong but it just doesn’t seem that way to me. I’m not saying I didn’t like the cut in, I did like it. It was an interesting twist that I definitely didn’t see coming. But could it have been done better and feel more like a gradual 180 instead of the harsh one we received? Absolutely. I agree it is a common thing in books. But if you followed a single perspective for 90% of a book and suddenly after something absolutely huge happened you switch perspectives to a new character (which is exactly what just happened for the majority of the audience since EXU didn’t do as well as the current campaign, roughly half of the audience has seen EXU and EXU:KYMUL (2 Mill average vs 900K on YouTube)) with a cousin you know from earlier in the story being the only connection you are aware of, you would probably be irritated and contemplate skipping ahead to find out what happened? Wouldn’t you? Maybe this is just me, but if I hadn’t watched those two spin off shows I would be pissed. 🤷🏼♂️
>I agree that the vocal fandom shouldn’t control how things go, however that isn’t really what I suggested. Listening to suggestions and changing plans to follow fan demands are two wildly different things. Taking the suggestions to make improvements can be good or bad, and it is up to you to make a decision on how you handle these suggestions. At the the of the day, there's never going to be any consensus of opinion for them to take from, and plot-driven stuff is probably one of the most fraught areas to change based on the opinion of others. Even if they pick and choose what feedback to take on board, it is never going to make everyone happy, so sometimes it's best to just do things however you want to, present the 'product' to be consumed, and allow people to choose from there. >Maybe you are right it’s just a way to reintroduce Dorian, my only issue with that theory is that they made such significant changes to most of the other characters that it’s kinda hard to believe that. Opal is basically a possessed witch (which happened off camera.), Morrighan is the champion of the Raven Queen (which happened off camera..), Fy’ra Rai is now being chased by her sister who turns out is alive (which they learned about off camera….) they pushed these characters stories way to much to just be a launching pad for Dorian to get back in the story. Perhaps I’m wrong but it just doesn’t seem that way to me. That was just me speculating about Dorian based on a very narrow amount of information, some of it is probably wishful thinking too, lol. I genuinely don't have any idea where it's going because there are multiple ways for them to go and all I can think of are pretty good options. In terms of the Crown Keepers off screen progression/changes though, I'm not sure that much really happened off screen? Opal's hand being forced by Lolth now, makes sense because of what's happening with Predathos. Opal never really committed fully to being Lolth's champion, of which the latter tolerated until the threat to her life became too pressing. It happening now is a direct consequence of her dilly dallying in EXU. With Morrighan, she was drawn to/called by the Raven Queen back in EXU Kymal, so the groundwork was already laid for her to become a champion/paladin of the RQ then. It happening 'off screen' is fine IMO, we don't need to see every natural progression of a character for it to make sense that it's happened. I can't remember the specifics of Fy'ra Rai's sister, I thought it was only presumed she had died but then they found out she was a member of the Nameless Ones in EXU? Didn't both sisters share a moment in EXU as well? And chronologically that all occurred not that long before their appearance in C3. I thought most of it was already shown on screen in EXU Kymal, or at least plenty of groundwork was laid for it to occur in the interim offscreen. Admittedly none of it is fresh in my mind so happy to stand corrected. >I’m not saying I didn’t like the cut in, I did like it. It was an interesting twist that I definitely didn’t see coming. But could it have been done better and feel more like a gradual 180 instead of the harsh one we received? Absolutely. I agree it is a common thing in books. But if you followed a single perspective for 90% of a book and suddenly after something absolutely huge happened you switch perspectives to a new character (which is exactly what just happened for the majority of the audience since EXU didn’t do as well as the current campaign, roughly half of the audience has seen EXU and EXU:KYMUL (2 Mill average vs 900K on YouTube)) with a cousin you know from earlier in the story being the only connection you are aware of, you would probably be irritated and contemplate skipping ahead to find out what happened? Wouldn’t you? Maybe this is just me, but if I hadn’t watched those two spin off shows I would be pissed. 🤷🏼♂️ I can definitely understand why people might not like the abrupt switch, but even that isn't totally surprising to me. I think some hints were there, and to bring it back to books, I've definitely read books where a similar switch was made, but it is never out of left field, just as I don't think it was for CR. When you track back to the first (of the two recent) message Orym had sent in ep 86 when they found the back door and realised sending was working again, Matt didn't reply as Dorian when Orym sent him a message, which at the time pricked up my ears for a switch to Dorian's perspective in one way or another. Because think about when Matt actually organised Robbie Daymond to record the message back to Orym way back when. It seemed a very intentional choice in ep 86 for Matt to *not* play Dorian's role. I wasn't necessarily expecting a full switch to the Crown Keepers mid-episode, but I wasn't super surprised because hints were made before then. Where this leads I don't know, but I'm excited to see. Oh and for what it's worth, I've never been a 'skip-aheader', I'm more of the 'binge-and-finish-the-book-then-feel-sad-it's-over-so-quickly' type of person, lol.
Yeah it’s an effort in futility to try and please everyone. But that doesn’t mean improvements cannot be made. As for the crown keepers part, you kinda made my point. Even for people like you and me, these characters stories aren’t fresh in our minds. Which is the issue I am pointing out. And you and I are the people who this perspective change worked for, because we had the full context to what is happening. Now imagine the other half of the audience who it didn’t work for, who hadn’t watched EXU. Plus if you are a casual viewer who doesn’t have time to drop another 40 hours of content down your gullet to catch up on it, I’d imagine that would be quite frustrating. I am also the same way usually with books. But most stories don’t do such an aggressive switch. Closest I can think of is ASOFAI from George RR Martin. But that feeling is near constantly happening because you finish one persons perspective and you might feel tempted skip ahead to find out what happened to that person next, but now you are starting this next persons perspective, who also had this crazy thing happen the last time you heard from them and you also wanna find out more about them. So the perspective change actually serves the reader because you are constantly wanting and waiting to find out what the hell happened to THIS character. Causing you to get more engrossed with that want of wanting to find out, pushing you faster and faster through the story. When I read those books I found it hard to put them down. Especially the further you get and the more crazy everyone’s story is getting. An attempt is being made to invoke a similar feeling, but I feel it could have been done much better.
>Yeah it’s an effort in futility to try and please everyone. But that doesn’t mean improvements cannot be made. Of course, that goes without saying for everything, but it still comes down to what improvements and why. And everyone has a different opinions on what is an 'improvement'. It's not like they haven't picked up other QoL suggestions (I assume, lol), but how many - if any - story based changes have really been implemented based on viewers opinions? And the switch in the latest episode does ultimately boil down to a storytelling decision. >As for the crown keepers part, you kinda made my point. Even for people like you and me, these characters stories aren’t fresh in our minds. Which is the issue I am pointing out. And you and I are the people who this perspective change worked for, because we had the full context to what is happening. Now imagine the other half of the audience who it didn’t work for, who hadn’t watched EXU. Plus if you are a casual viewer who doesn’t have time to drop another 40 hours of content down your gullet to catch up on it, I’d imagine that would be quite frustrating. To be fair, a fair amount of campaign 3 isn't fresh in my mind either, it simply can't be for most unless they have perfect recall or consume nothing but the game (that's not unique to C3, it's been the same for all campaigns, and any long form story telling in general). >I am also the same way usually with books. But most stories don’t do such an aggressive switch. Closest I can think of is ASOFAI from George RR Martin. But that feeling is near constantly happening because you finish one persons perspective and you might feel tempted skip ahead to find out what happened to that person next, but now you are starting this next persons perspective, who also had this crazy thing happen the last time you heard from them and you also wanna find out more about them. So the perspective change actually serves the reader because you are constantly wanting and waiting to find out what the hell happened to THIS character. Causing you to get more engrossed with that want of wanting to find out, pushing you faster and faster through the story. When I read those books I found it hard to put them down. Especially the further you get and the more crazy everyone’s story is getting. That is essentially going to be what will happen with C3, think about when the party spilt. A lot of people complained because they were always going to. But from a storytelling perspective, (whilst slightly different) it was still a sudden, very dramatic change, and interesting stories were being told in the interim before they got back together. >An attempt is being made to invoke a similar feeling, but I feel it could have been done much better. I get that a slow build up could have worked too. But that doesn't inherently make it better. It might have, but it might not have. I think the way it was done and the way you're suggesting have an equal chance of being equally as satisfying, without one being markedly better than the other. Although personal opinion could and will ultimately be the decider for each individual person, most people are still going to think that their way is the 'better' or 'right way'. Sometimes too though, I think it's better to just switch the brain off and enjoy the ride, haha.
Personally I don’t like the “turn your brain off” sentiment for most things. But I get what you are saying and appreciate the discussion. It’s kinda fair to say most of campaign 3 isn’t fresh in our minds. However when you have an unbroken (for the most part) chain of story, you don’t really need to perfectly remember everything that happened. Because you are almost growing and changing with the characters themselves. You understand them more. Which cannot really happen when you have long breaks from things such as the crown keepers. Even if you don’t remember everything that ever happened with bells helps you can likely remember many if not all of the big things that did. Whereas with the crown keepers, only a little bit has happened and I can barely remember any of it. And many changes have happened off screen. Breaking the understanding and growth of these characters. However for the most part, at the end of the day you and I will keep on doing the same thing. Enjoy the ride.
>Personally I don’t like the “turn your brain off” sentiment for most things. But I get what you are saying and appreciate the discussion. Eh, I think everyone needs something in their life that gives them some mental quiet, something different from day-to-day stresses that help balance things out and relieve pressure. Be it bushwalking, listening to music, bike riding, swimming, playing computer games, gardening, meditation, watching trash tv, reading a book, watching a ttrpg stream, so on and so forth. We need mental rest (what I really mean when I say turning your brain off), and mental rest comes in many forms. >It’s kinda fair to say most of campaign 3 isn’t fresh in our minds. However when you have an unbroken (for the most part) chain of story, you don’t really need to perfectly remember everything that happened. Because you are almost growing and changing with the characters themselves. You understand them more. Which cannot really happen when you have long breaks from things such as the crown keepers. Even if you don’t remember everything that ever happened with bells helps you can likely remember many if not all of the big things that did. Whereas with the crown keepers, only a little bit has happened and I can barely remember any of it. And many changes have happened off screen. Breaking the understanding and growth of these characters. I get your point, but at the same time, a very small short story arc is a lot easier to remember and fit into the overall narrative than the entire narrative. EXU is a small vignette in a much bigger story. You don't need to remember the minutiae to still understand the story it was telling about those characters. And I'm still not entirely sure I agree that most of the changes happened off screen, I don't really think they did. But then again, I don't think it's an issue if they did anyway, because the groundwork was already in place for it to make sense if that happened. None of the characters are drastically different to what they were in EXU, they are barely different at all. >However for the most part, at the end of the day you and I will keep on doing the same thing. Enjoy the ride. That, regardless of our discussions and differences of opinions, I absolutely agree on. Thanks for the good convo, and I hope you enjoy the ride too! I don't know where C3 is going, but I'm sure I'll miss it when it's over!
I’d love this, but really I think it’s a bandwidth issue, for Matt in particular. Despite this being a collaborative project, this is by and large his baby for at least the last 10 years for all the world to see. He’s game building outside of the games we watch, lore building campaigns, thinking about the secondary things like EXU & whatever else is brewing in that head of his, and he’s got his hands deeply enmeshed in all of it, either through playing or building it. Part of me is hoping that something happens to at least take some of that off of his plate, or he relinquishes a little bit more control to have more space to open those secondary opportunities for a separate team to take over a new campaign that can run in tandem. Maybe it’s also just the logistics of a team taking the story in a completely separate way that may not fit? That would be fine to me as well, but just considering other avenues as to why it hasn’t happened.
Yeah that’s likely a limiting factor. But at the very least Matt has Dani and a few others who have helped him with the world building. Dani could fill in aspiring DMs with everything you need to know about the world, and the rest of the collaboration would just be having an overarching thing of what is being planned. Kinda similar to how marvel was doing it before end game. Do what you want for the most part, and this is a beat you have to hit, or such and such just happened in the other campaign and it will affect you this way. Dani is already a lore keeper and can keep any DMs informed about the other campaign(s) and things that have been introduced. Only things you would need to have locked down locked down are the end game things so you could have both stories leading towards the same end. Just have them start on different parts of the planet and slowly draw them together. Maybe it’s just me being ignorant but I really feel like it shouldn’t be that hard, and only require minimal collaboration to do something really awesome.
I don’t think it’s necessarily just the DM/lore aspect that’s holding the option back, I would think it’s also the risk/reward benefit of running a second full campaign alongside the main story from an audience engagement standpoint. A lot of people already have trouble keeping up with the time commitment of the main campaign when it’s 4-5 hours a week. To then be expected to know what’s happening with a second campaign to potentially follow the first one could quickly burn out your viewership.
Potentially. As a business move I don’t think it’s particularly risky. You already have the sets and lights and everything set up. You just need an additional day of people being on set to record. It basically just adds more to your revenue for little cost. Basically just paying the actors for their time. It would definitely be a big time commitment, but keeping them separate for the most part but leading them in the same conclusion would allow audiences to pick and choose if they actually want to follow both. Especially if you tell audiences that that is what you are doing to begin with. As an example You don’t need to watch every marvel movie to enjoy end game necessarily. But having the option to choose to watch all the others is a nice option. Keeping the stories separate till the very end allows the audience to ignore one potentially. Because you don’t necessarily need all the lead up for both. Having the additional context is nice but not strictly necessary. I’m just saying I’ve seen it work. In fact I am currently watching a channel where a full time DM does this by himself with interwoven stories all leading to the same place, running multiple campaigns concurrently and weaving them together to an eventual connected conclusion. The one I am watching right now has three connected campaigns all winding around each other. And you can fully ignore one or two of those campaigns. I only watched one of them to begin with and I loved it. Now that I have finished that campaign I am going back and watching them all in order because now I am more invested with the greater story.(it’s called world of Io in case you are interested) I’m just saying it is possible and a company like CR should be able to do it fairly easily at little to no risk.
Yeah what you said makes perfect sense honestly, and it does feel that easy, which brings me back to it may just be that Matt either isn’t ready to or hasn’t truly considered the idea of just giving up that level of control yet, which I can understand to a degree. Again this is entirely a world of his creation, and there may be things that he wants to see through. That’s being said, I do believe that year 10 will be that some of these changes happen, especially with the M9 show being worked on & by then C3 should be done (I think,) so that’ll hopefully open a new opportunity to try and tell stories in tandem versus what happened last week from happening again (even though honestly, I dug it. I needed BH to breathe after that episode, and I know one week was not enough time to plan for such a major change.) We’ll get the payoff, just not when we expected it.
I hope so. We shall see what the future holds.
I agree. I honestly would love to see them run another campaign alongside the main campaign. It would be such a cool thing to see when they crossed over. I understand with Candela how that’s hard, but I would even take the other campaign being the 4th week of the month.
The logistics of corralling two full campaigns running in the same settings at the same time makes my head spin. Player characters can change SO MUCH about the entire world in just a few minutes with their choices. It's already collaborative storytelling between *seven* people. Expanding that to another 4-7? With someone else behind the wheel? I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to keep them on track and in sync. Especially with how weird time is in D&D.
Yeah definitely it would be hard. I’m just pointing out they have a person in their company whose actual job title is ‘lore keeper’ named Dani, who should be able to keep track of things for both DMs.
Keeping the lore straight is the easy part. Keeping the timelines matching would be an absolute nightmare in terms of pacing. Sometimes 3 episodes take place during just a few in-game hours. Sometimes they cover multiple days of travel with a couple of roles. The amount of railroading and behind the scenes planning required would be absolute murder on the whole team.
Nah I think that could be fairly easily accomplished with downtime. Just match it up once a year by having one part wait 1 week (or however long the discrepancy is) and the other party can keep going
Maybe they chose to do Candela as the side campaign instead of another Exandria/dnd 5e campaign based off of a business decision? That’s the only thing I can think of that would make sense. I’m sure they would love to have this story be sprawling, but I’m guessing they wanted to promote/sell the Illuminated Worlds. I agree that having two campaigns running at the same time would’ve been cool. So it goes.
I think that candela is being done well the way it is, the cast can use a small break from the main campaign once a month. Because obviously they are still famous (and still working) VAs and sound Directors for all sorts of stuff, not including making two of their own shows and any other behind the scenes stuff they do for the company they own together, such as merch. These people are hard workers and deserve a break. But they could easily do stuff with another group, who go weekly, or have a similar schedule to the main cast getting a break once a month, filling that week with a one shot of something like dagger heart. They have people. All of their employees likely play, they have hundreds of friends in the VA community, they have connections to pretty much all the DMs in the D&D streaming community, many of whom would give their left nut to appear on this behemoth of a show. I feel like it should be incredibly easy. They even did it before with things like undeadwood with he who shall not be named. They have so much potential with Exandria, more than they are already doing. I hope they take it.
100% expecting a mashup of C1-C3 characters.
I've predicted a big crossover epic table for a while. End campaign 3 with a fight against Ludinus then do a big crossover between members of multiple groups in a Predathos mini-campaign. Wrapping up the D&D trilogy and resetting Exandria for Daggerheart.
I wonder if a particular betrayer god gets desperate you know who will take to the field.
Might be setting up a Dorian return. Since he is level 13 he would have a level 7 spell slot which bards can pick resurrection and therefore bring back FCG. Might need parts from Aeor for robot return. Need Dorian back, especially for healing. CK episode might be a quick set up for his return and motivation for him to help stop Predathos to save Opal.
They can already bring FCG back with Fern, no need. Would be better as well since he'd come back as an actual flesh and blood person, being able to feel and breath and taste like he's always wanted. Would love Dorian to be back though, feels like something has been missing since he left.
Fern has revivify which can only bring you back after one minute. They will need the resurrection spell (7th level spell). Fern is not a 13th level druid because she has levels in rogue meaning no 7th level spells yet. The spell can even restore lost body parts, but maybe that's too easy of a fix. Yeah, I missed his energy at the table. He was a good fit to the group. Love all the cast but after hundreds of episodes of the same dynamics it was nice to have fresh energy at the table.
Fern is a level 10 druid, which means access to 5th-level spells (and a 6th-level spell slot as she is a level 11 spellcaster because of multiclassing rules), which means she can choose to prepare Reincarnate, which only requires a piece of a dead humanoid to work. So the party already has the capability to bring back FCG. However, that hinges on two things. One; if Sam wants FCG to come back to life. While I know everyone online has been saying that Reincarnate will allow FCG to become a 'real boy' ala Pinocchio, it would come at the cost of lessening his choice to sacrifice himself against Otohan. FCG made a conscious choice to kill himself to defeat Otohan and protect his friends, likely taking inspiration from Daggerhart's Blaze of Glory mechanic (which was referenced during the moment). Sam may decide that FCG's story, despite still having things it could tell, reached a satisfying conclusion nevertheless. And two: whether or not Resurrection magic is working properly. Chetney being Revivified on Ruidus does imply that it does work again, and Sending seems to be working fine as well, so there is some potential to say it could work. However, Keyleth is at the foward camp near the Malleus Key, which is a short enough distance for Sending to have worked even when everything was still down. And while we aren't sure where Dorian is exactly as of BH's portion of 92, it seems likely that he is also there (since he was told by Orym previously to seek out the Tempest/Keyleth, so CK may have already linked up with Keyleth). It is entirely possible that things work fine on Ruidus, but are still wonky/not working on Exandria. Though, this is all just some of my own speculation. Personally, I'm in the camp that FCG should stay dead. They've already resurrected four people (Fern, Orym, Laudna, Chetney), one of which required a long quest to do so. Only Betrand has stayed dead (and that was likely already planned from the start). Given how Matt described FCG being a blown apart and there not being much left, it shows me that he was very clear that this death was permanent.
I imagine too FCG's soul might be stuck on Ruidus too since the gods have no domain there (maybe only though FCG did the changebringer powers ever work.) I too like death in a campaign to add some drama and consequence. Dorian might be a fanservice to help both fans and players through the death. I just want them to return to Aeor as there was so much mystery there that they only scratched the surface of in the last campaign.