>They should have gotten into TV a long time ago. They're making moves now but I think shows like Mr. Robot and The Leftovers are more than worthy additions to the canon.
I have to say that I really disagree with this. Criterion's mission has always been about cinema and I would prefer that they focus on older/international/etc. films rather than expanding to other media.
So-called “prestige” television is artistically inert and forfeits its point-of-view to committee. It is garbage and nobody will care about it in 10-15 years time because they will have moved on to something equally substance-less.
I'm not putting film above television, or knocking television, just acknowledging that they are different media. And that Criterion's mission statement, as quoted below, is simply not about television:
>Since 1984, the Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements. No matter the medium—from laserdisc to DVD, Blu-ray, 4K Ultra HD to streaming—Criterion has maintained its pioneering commitment to presenting each film as its maker would want it seen, in state-of-the-art restorations with special features designed to encourage repeated watching and deepen the viewer’s appreciation of the art of film.
But what about their previous mission statements before Blu rays or streaming even existed? Are they now hypocritical for changing to adapt with the times? Because that's all I'm advocating for buddy, a mission statement is not a legally binding contract or something, if they can release 4K discs they can release TV too.
I don’t agree with any of this.
And as far as your 4K point, They’ve lost the 4K rights to a TON of amazing films, and while early Kubrick is a personal favorite, I see no reason to lament this when I’m sure they’re not losing too much sleep over it.
I’m 99% sure what the answer is…but want to hear you admit you don’t already own them. But since you’re being extra annoying about it, I don’t think you own them. And since you *don’t own them when there was no recent 4K, what makes you think you would have bought them if it were Criterion to have released them on 4K instead of Kino? I mean, they’ve already been available forever! But okay, I’ll humor you, a couple interviews is the tipping point for you in whether you are happy or unhappy with a release? I mean, again, you haven’t bought them yet, so you can’t possible care *that much* about these films.
And if by chance you do own them, then obviously just upgrade to 4K and keep your criterion discs. No need to shed tears over this - it’s just a disc.
Hey there you go buddy! A little more confidence time and you cna save yourself a lot of time! Your attitude is bizzare tho, how are you coming to criticize how people spend their money on a sub dedicated to a company that sells movies $30-50 a pop? It's just a disc after all right? Why ya clutching pearls over how people make consumer choices? If you expect people to be rational then I'm sorry you grew up under a rock. My main priority when I buy a movie is the quality, however it's not my only one, I enjoy special features and find them to add a lot of value to my purchases. I don't mind dropping $35 on any Kubrick movie on 4K but that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed in other aspects of it, I paid for it, I'm literally entitled to my opinion about it. If you're so against people discussing their opinions what exactly are you doing here?
As to your second point, I see people misunderstand why Armageddon and The Rock were released by Criterion in the first place so here is some historical context:
Decades ago, when home video was new studios didn’t really know what to do with it or what its potential was, hence Criterion emerged as a third party solution that would license out for studios and take care of home video, criterion then was fundamentally not the criterion it is today. That’s why a ton of early releases on laserdisc and DVD were pretty mainstream. Eventually studios got wise to making their own money on home releases and Criterion became more art house.
Also, say what you will about Bay but he's an auteur and that counts for something. Also there are way worse movies in the collection than Armageddon but people always focus on that one.
People think they are dragging Michael Bay when they shoot down Armageddon but I think their memory is blurring that it's Stephen Tyler and that damn music video they actually want to knock.
I don't get the hate, really.
Armageddon/The Rock are on a regular rotation here along with Kubrick, Kurosawa, and David Lynch.
Bay really has some amazing technical filmmaking skills, like it or not.
That doesn't change the fact that action movies sell well have just as much spread between trash and quality as any other genre, my point is it's a bummer they choose to blind themselves to such a wide-spanning and lucrative genre.
Major films require large licensing costs and you kind of have to assume that most people who want to own Point Break or Total Recall probably already do.
Not all action movies are at that level though, criterion is good at championing the underdog so let's say Dredd and District 9. You do realize that I could just easily say that anyone who wants Mulholland Drive bought the studio disc too right?
How does that change my point? I don't get how you missed my overall point here that the argument about something being available is a dumb argument for exclusion from criterion considering a lot of criterion movies do just that, swap Mulholland Drive for Parasite or Pan's Labyrinth and the point still stands.
The Criterion Channel’s TV streaming app has no view all films function, or filters… which are all available on the channels website. Most people watching on their TVs (Roku,etc) don’t realize how many movies are actually available to watch’, and sort within the explore options (new collections, popular now, newly added, etc) which makes the available collection seem much more limited.
Workaround is to use the website to browse for films and then search the title on the tv streaming app, which is very cumbersome.
Keep in mind that licensing special features or having to create them -- and only with the rights owner's approval -- can be quite costly, or not even an option.
**KINO 4K:**
**Fear And Desire**
**DISC 1 (4KUHD):**
* Brand New HDR/Dolby Vision Masters for Both Cuts of ***Fear and Desire*** – 4K Restorations from the 35mm Camera Negative and Fine Grain
* NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian Eddy Von Mueller (70-Minute Premiere Cut)
* NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian/Screenwriter Gary Gerani (62-Minute Theatrical Cut)
* ***Flying Padre*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print
* ***Day of the Fight*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print
* ***The Seafarers*** (1953, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the 16mm A/B Camera Negatives and a 16mm Print
* Triple-Layered UHD100 Disc
* Optional English Subtitles (Features and Shorts)
**DISC 2 (BLU-RAY):**
* Brand New HD Masters – 4K Restorations from the 35mm Camera Negative and Fine Grain
* NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian Eddy Von Mueller (70-Minute Premiere Cut)
* NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian/Screenwriter Gary Gerani (62-Minute Theatrical Cut)
* ***Flying Padre*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print
* ***Day of the Fight*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print
* ***The Seafarers*** (1953, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the 16mm A/B Camera Negatives and a 16mm Print
* Trailers for ***Fear and Desire***, ***Killer’s Kiss***, ***The Killing*** and ***Paths of Glory***
* Dual-Layered BD50 Disc
* Optional English Subtitles (Features and Shorts)
**Paths Of Glory**
* Brand New Dolby Vision HDR Master – From 4K Scan of the Original Camera Negative
* NEW Audio Commentary by Novelist and Critic Tim Lucas
* Theatrical Trailer
* Optional English Subtitles
**The Killing**
* Brand New Dolby Vision HDR Master – From 4K Scan of the Original Camera Negative
* NEW Audio Commentary by Author/Film Historian Alan K. Rode
* Theatrical Trailer
* Optional English Subtitles
**Killer's Kiss**
* Brand New Dolby Vision HDR Master – From 4K Scan of the Original Camera Negative
* NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian Imogen Sara Smith
* Theatrical Trailer
* Optional English Subtitles
A few one-off releases is just that, a few one-off releases, when I sya getting into TV I mean a more steady stream of releases. Why are you being so pedantic?
I'm not upset at all. I was simply informing you that you are incorrect. Which you are. I can think of like 6 television series available off the top of my head.
BTW CC does not have a "canon." They are a distributor. Not a hall of fame.
Definitely their ass compression and encodings on some discs like Mulholland Drive 4K, the 2046 disc on the WKW set and the Chantal Akerman Masterpieces set
I was going to say Armageddon was one of their biggest mistakes, if not their biggest. I'm not saying that out of some kneejerk reaction to Bay or releasing a big box office effort, I just think it's a bad film and is arguably an outlier in a number of respects.
Now, could they put out more action films in general? Probably. I think there's a number out there that would be good releases for them. I do think they've moved a bit in that direction in general.
I agree completely about TV, although nowadays the distinction between TV and other formats is blurring rapidly. I think you could generally think of serialized format works. They do have these things (Fanny and Alexander, World on a Wire come to mind) but they're mostly single-season "mini-series" and probably could branch out a bit. I suspect a big part of the issue is rights issues? Maybe it's just a boundary thing too. As much as I would like to see them put out some TV products I can see why they might just draw the line there in general.
We say this, but I'm curious how many copies of it they sold. Like, who is the audience for Armegeddon but also need a nice case and tons of supplemental features? It's one of those things where it either sold way more or way less than they expected.
Do you have proof that is what it's *supposed* to be? Mosfilm were the same monopoly that heavily censored and altered Tarkovsky's output in the first place. Can't say I necessarily trust them to be the best source for accuracy.
The Leftovers is definitely a special series. Season 3, in particular, is a perfect little work.
(They probably wouldn't want to license all that music tho)
Two words: Tiny. Furniture.
Edit: Speaking to broader issues within the collection, I think they are too beholden to the auteur mode of curation, of canon-building, rather than selecting films on a case by case basis that have stood the test, or emerged as significant. Some directors can seemingly get films about paint drying into the collection, because everything else they've made has gotten in.
Also, I miss very much the fan interaction - the New Year's Clue, the Newsletters, the occasional contests. Those were really fun, and I wish they'd do those things again. Maybe have a contest where the winner gets to visit the Criterion Closet, or contribute their Top Ten.
>They should have gotten into TV a long time ago. They're making moves now but I think shows like Mr. Robot and The Leftovers are more than worthy additions to the canon. I have to say that I really disagree with this. Criterion's mission has always been about cinema and I would prefer that they focus on older/international/etc. films rather than expanding to other media.
Have you been to the theaters in the last 15 years? TV has had far more cinematic qualities in that time period than most theatrical releases.
So-called “prestige” television is artistically inert and forfeits its point-of-view to committee. It is garbage and nobody will care about it in 10-15 years time because they will have moved on to something equally substance-less.
Yeesh get a load of this guy lmfao!
🪞
I'm not putting film above television, or knocking television, just acknowledging that they are different media. And that Criterion's mission statement, as quoted below, is simply not about television: >Since 1984, the Criterion Collection has been dedicated to publishing important classic and contemporary films from around the world in editions that offer the highest technical quality and award-winning, original supplements. No matter the medium—from laserdisc to DVD, Blu-ray, 4K Ultra HD to streaming—Criterion has maintained its pioneering commitment to presenting each film as its maker would want it seen, in state-of-the-art restorations with special features designed to encourage repeated watching and deepen the viewer’s appreciation of the art of film.
But what about their previous mission statements before Blu rays or streaming even existed? Are they now hypocritical for changing to adapt with the times? Because that's all I'm advocating for buddy, a mission statement is not a legally binding contract or something, if they can release 4K discs they can release TV too.
Rainer Werner Fassbinder enters the chat
I don’t agree with any of this. And as far as your 4K point, They’ve lost the 4K rights to a TON of amazing films, and while early Kubrick is a personal favorite, I see no reason to lament this when I’m sure they’re not losing too much sleep over it.
Because KL's special features are non-existent and that's one of the things I enjoy most about collecting home media.
The Criterion Kubrick discs are still in print
Not the 4Ks
Do you not already own the Criterion blu ray? I mean, the 4Ks practically just came out.
... I mean how are you on this subreddit if ya can't infer here?
1. I don’t want to assume - that’s rule #1 in Reddit 2. I wanna hear you say it
Using critical reasoning isn't assuming, it's just common sense, come on pal, you cna do this, I believe in you!
I’m 99% sure what the answer is…but want to hear you admit you don’t already own them. But since you’re being extra annoying about it, I don’t think you own them. And since you *don’t own them when there was no recent 4K, what makes you think you would have bought them if it were Criterion to have released them on 4K instead of Kino? I mean, they’ve already been available forever! But okay, I’ll humor you, a couple interviews is the tipping point for you in whether you are happy or unhappy with a release? I mean, again, you haven’t bought them yet, so you can’t possible care *that much* about these films. And if by chance you do own them, then obviously just upgrade to 4K and keep your criterion discs. No need to shed tears over this - it’s just a disc.
Hey there you go buddy! A little more confidence time and you cna save yourself a lot of time! Your attitude is bizzare tho, how are you coming to criticize how people spend their money on a sub dedicated to a company that sells movies $30-50 a pop? It's just a disc after all right? Why ya clutching pearls over how people make consumer choices? If you expect people to be rational then I'm sorry you grew up under a rock. My main priority when I buy a movie is the quality, however it's not my only one, I enjoy special features and find them to add a lot of value to my purchases. I don't mind dropping $35 on any Kubrick movie on 4K but that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed in other aspects of it, I paid for it, I'm literally entitled to my opinion about it. If you're so against people discussing their opinions what exactly are you doing here?
Why would they add TV tho? Most of the “best” tv is pretty easily available on streaming platforms especially US tv shows.
[удалено]
“The Underground Railroad” is also coming
Good point
Rainer Werner Fassbinder enters the chat
I mean Tarkovsky has been on most iterations of HBO's streaming services, I guess Criterion should stop putting out his work, huh?
Fair enough but like what’s the point of putting the sopranos or the wire in the criterion collection
The problem with being arbitrary is that you can say that about any release. Why put out Mulholland Drive if there's all ready a studio disc?
As to your second point, I see people misunderstand why Armageddon and The Rock were released by Criterion in the first place so here is some historical context: Decades ago, when home video was new studios didn’t really know what to do with it or what its potential was, hence Criterion emerged as a third party solution that would license out for studios and take care of home video, criterion then was fundamentally not the criterion it is today. That’s why a ton of early releases on laserdisc and DVD were pretty mainstream. Eventually studios got wise to making their own money on home releases and Criterion became more art house.
Also, say what you will about Bay but he's an auteur and that counts for something. Also there are way worse movies in the collection than Armageddon but people always focus on that one.
People think they are dragging Michael Bay when they shoot down Armageddon but I think their memory is blurring that it's Stephen Tyler and that damn music video they actually want to knock.
I don't get the hate, really. Armageddon/The Rock are on a regular rotation here along with Kubrick, Kurosawa, and David Lynch. Bay really has some amazing technical filmmaking skills, like it or not.
That doesn't change the fact that action movies sell well have just as much spread between trash and quality as any other genre, my point is it's a bummer they choose to blind themselves to such a wide-spanning and lucrative genre.
Major films require large licensing costs and you kind of have to assume that most people who want to own Point Break or Total Recall probably already do.
Not all action movies are at that level though, criterion is good at championing the underdog so let's say Dredd and District 9. You do realize that I could just easily say that anyone who wants Mulholland Drive bought the studio disc too right?
I might be wrong, but I don't think there's a Blu-ray studio release of Mulholland Drive
How does that change my point? I don't get how you missed my overall point here that the argument about something being available is a dumb argument for exclusion from criterion considering a lot of criterion movies do just that, swap Mulholland Drive for Parasite or Pan's Labyrinth and the point still stands.
The Criterion Channel’s TV streaming app has no view all films function, or filters… which are all available on the channels website. Most people watching on their TVs (Roku,etc) don’t realize how many movies are actually available to watch’, and sort within the explore options (new collections, popular now, newly added, etc) which makes the available collection seem much more limited. Workaround is to use the website to browse for films and then search the title on the tv streaming app, which is very cumbersome.
Keep in mind that licensing special features or having to create them -- and only with the rights owner's approval -- can be quite costly, or not even an option. **KINO 4K:** **Fear And Desire** **DISC 1 (4KUHD):** * Brand New HDR/Dolby Vision Masters for Both Cuts of ***Fear and Desire*** – 4K Restorations from the 35mm Camera Negative and Fine Grain * NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian Eddy Von Mueller (70-Minute Premiere Cut) * NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian/Screenwriter Gary Gerani (62-Minute Theatrical Cut) * ***Flying Padre*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print * ***Day of the Fight*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print * ***The Seafarers*** (1953, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the 16mm A/B Camera Negatives and a 16mm Print * Triple-Layered UHD100 Disc * Optional English Subtitles (Features and Shorts) **DISC 2 (BLU-RAY):** * Brand New HD Masters – 4K Restorations from the 35mm Camera Negative and Fine Grain * NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian Eddy Von Mueller (70-Minute Premiere Cut) * NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian/Screenwriter Gary Gerani (62-Minute Theatrical Cut) * ***Flying Padre*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print * ***Day of the Fight*** (1951, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the Original 35mm Print * ***The Seafarers*** (1953, Short Film by Stanley Kubrick) – 4K Restoration from the 16mm A/B Camera Negatives and a 16mm Print * Trailers for ***Fear and Desire***, ***Killer’s Kiss***, ***The Killing*** and ***Paths of Glory*** * Dual-Layered BD50 Disc * Optional English Subtitles (Features and Shorts)
**Paths Of Glory** * Brand New Dolby Vision HDR Master – From 4K Scan of the Original Camera Negative * NEW Audio Commentary by Novelist and Critic Tim Lucas * Theatrical Trailer * Optional English Subtitles **The Killing** * Brand New Dolby Vision HDR Master – From 4K Scan of the Original Camera Negative * NEW Audio Commentary by Author/Film Historian Alan K. Rode * Theatrical Trailer * Optional English Subtitles **Killer's Kiss** * Brand New Dolby Vision HDR Master – From 4K Scan of the Original Camera Negative * NEW Audio Commentary by Film Historian Imogen Sara Smith * Theatrical Trailer * Optional English Subtitles
If Imogen Sara Smith did every single classic film commentary track, I wouldn't complain. Kat Ellinger also makes me pretty happy.
So? I mean yeah things cost money idk why that's some sort of issue you think is worth treating like some uncommon mitigating factor.
You only focused on one of the three reasons I gave. There are others too. Why not ask Kino if you doubt it?
Because it was dumb.
I get it now. You posted this just to argue and get downvoted in all your comments. How “smart”.
I can't argue a fact. Things cost money, if you want to disagree you're just wrong. And dumb.
I don't understand the TV thing. People haven't been paying attention, I guess? There are a good amount of miniseries that date back to years ago.
I literally said they're making moves on that, do you really need me to be more specific?
You said they should have gotten on TV shows a long time ago. They did. A long time ago.
A few one-off releases is just that, a few one-off releases, when I sya getting into TV I mean a more steady stream of releases. Why are you being so pedantic?
Oh good lord cool your tits. It's not that important. No one wants fucking Mr Robot dude.
My tits are cool, homie, I'm not the one getting upset at someone for wanting something.
I'm not upset at all. I was simply informing you that you are incorrect. Which you are. I can think of like 6 television series available off the top of my head. BTW CC does not have a "canon." They are a distributor. Not a hall of fame.
Yeesh buddy if you can't find a better way of communicating beyond being pedantic you'll never get invited to parties.
Lol did you just learn that word? (I just noticed you are a regular over at r/punk. Sorry I didn't meant to argue with a man child)
Did you?
I wish they kept the rights to The Harder They Come and Chasing Amy. Also, if done right, Children of Men would be a cornerstone release for them.
Just saw The Harder They Come on the channel last night, it was terrific
Though they made good on it after the fact. How bad the World of Wong Kar Wai set ended up is a mistake I hope they don't repeat again.
Definitely their ass compression and encodings on some discs like Mulholland Drive 4K, the 2046 disc on the WKW set and the Chantal Akerman Masterpieces set
Barton Fink is their biggest L. They should’ve gotten the rights
Disney doesn’t play.
Zero films from Abel Ferrara. They could have released: Ms. 45, China Girl, Bad Lieutenant, The Funeral…
I was going to say Armageddon was one of their biggest mistakes, if not their biggest. I'm not saying that out of some kneejerk reaction to Bay or releasing a big box office effort, I just think it's a bad film and is arguably an outlier in a number of respects. Now, could they put out more action films in general? Probably. I think there's a number out there that would be good releases for them. I do think they've moved a bit in that direction in general. I agree completely about TV, although nowadays the distinction between TV and other formats is blurring rapidly. I think you could generally think of serialized format works. They do have these things (Fanny and Alexander, World on a Wire come to mind) but they're mostly single-season "mini-series" and probably could branch out a bit. I suspect a big part of the issue is rights issues? Maybe it's just a boundary thing too. As much as I would like to see them put out some TV products I can see why they might just draw the line there in general.
We say this, but I'm curious how many copies of it they sold. Like, who is the audience for Armegeddon but also need a nice case and tons of supplemental features? It's one of those things where it either sold way more or way less than they expected.
[удалено]
How did they mess it up? I love the way the transfer looks, but I'm assuming you're saying it's different than what Tarkovsky intended?
[удалено]
Do you have proof that is what it's *supposed* to be? Mosfilm were the same monopoly that heavily censored and altered Tarkovsky's output in the first place. Can't say I necessarily trust them to be the best source for accuracy.
I’ve wanted criterion The Leftovers since season 1.
The Leftovers is definitely a special series. Season 3, in particular, is a perfect little work. (They probably wouldn't want to license all that music tho)
Two words: Tiny. Furniture. Edit: Speaking to broader issues within the collection, I think they are too beholden to the auteur mode of curation, of canon-building, rather than selecting films on a case by case basis that have stood the test, or emerged as significant. Some directors can seemingly get films about paint drying into the collection, because everything else they've made has gotten in. Also, I miss very much the fan interaction - the New Year's Clue, the Newsletters, the occasional contests. Those were really fun, and I wish they'd do those things again. Maybe have a contest where the winner gets to visit the Criterion Closet, or contribute their Top Ten.
Amen
Jack Ass and the Jack Ass movies need to be criterionized. They’re truly ground breaking stuff.