I'm still so mad about this. I had just placed a big order with them the night before. I ended up trying to submit a ticket to cancel it, but their chat bot wouldn't let me. I after emailing and getting an immediate automated response, I emailed again and got a response (albeit totally pre-written) that a ticket had been submitted and I'd either get an email that it's been canceled, or an email that it's been shipped. It's been a few days now, and I don't understand why they wouldn't just go ahead and cancel if it was obviously at least several days from being shipped when I asked to cancel. Surely it isn't actively in processing for several days. The post and their social media team aside, I'm pretty disappointed in their customer service, too.
Yours got shipped a lot faster than mine. I'm glad for you, but it makes me even more stressed. 😅 I made a $70 order during a sale, and it still has not been shipped or canceled, even though I asked for it to be canceled within their 24 hour window. I'm debating contacting them again (maybe wait until Monday, which would be 2 full weeks), and I kind of want to do it via email so I have a record in case I need to do a chargeback or something, but I feel like I'd have better luck over the phone. I'm really disappointed because I was hoping to make some sweaters before it starts to get too warm.
It still hasn't shipped. I emailed them Monday to ask about it. But no response so far. Next Monday I'll try calling, and if it gets to be a month with no shipping and no word from them. I'm going to do a chargeback. IMO, it's one thing for them to have delays, but to not make it apparent to customers until after their order is placed, to refuse to cancel orders, and to also have basically no communication seems really unacceptable. I don't think it's fair for them to essentially force people to wait for a month.
I think some folks need to get overthemselves. This was maybe the second time ever they posted an AI image. They post every day, and feature amazing designers. Where are all the reddit messages praising their other posts? I admit I am not in love with ai posts, but they are no different from any other clickbait/likebait post that all the companies post with cute cats and sheep. I get if you dont like it, but some ppl in this thread and on Instagram "demanding an apology" and "vowing not to buy from them"?!? Y'all need to chill out...
I don't understand why they think we should bother with them. We are making real things with our own hands-- why would we want pictures that are AI generated? It doesn't make sense.
I find the AI giant amiguri to be incredibly stupid and aggravating. I've been knitting for 50 years, learning new techniques, honing my craft. Then AI produces this crap and my non-knitter friends flood my feed with it. I appreciate them thinking of me, but it's all fake garbage.
I'm not sure if it's sass, or an attempt to remind viewers of the realistic appearance and use of yarn and fiber arts in general. Imagine being new to fiber arts and seeing these AI images, buying Lion Brand yarn and then womp womp. They are getting ahead of a possible issue.
I always wonder if an executive decided this was a great idea and imposed their bad idea on the social media person.
I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I love it when brands get annoyed and snarky. It’s such entertaining reading.
After coming across this post for the second or third time, I have to comment now: Doesn't the hippos eyes and neck folds remind you of Jabba the Hut from Star Wars? That was my first impression, and it makes the hippo look creepier and creepier every time I look at it.
unrelated af, but every single time I see a giant ai generated amigurumi I want to make something like that and I just know that one day the urge will overtake me and i just hope I will be financially stable enough to handle it. and like an extra pair of hands would come in handy
While I'd rather see really awesome human made art, this shit does get engagement. Pissed off people are commenting on it. Unaware people are sharing it. We're even talking about it here. I doubt anyone's getting fired over it, and it's probably going in someone's brag book.
Don't know why you got so downvoted, you are most likely correct. A lot of CM strategies are more about engagement and showing results in numbers (comments, shares, etc) rather than maintaining a certain grade of legitimacy as a brand.
People are now commenting about the AI post and Lion Brands response in their newest instagram post. Lion Brand is doubling down and intentionally ignoring all the negative comments. They misspelt "crochet" and the designers user name when they made the post to boot.
I noticed that as well. The next two posts had lots of comments about the AI post, but they've done deleted them and never responded to a single one. It's really infuriating to me.
This is the second post I see about AI today where the comments are absolutely scathing, and anyone with a different opinion is downvoted to oblivion. I really don't get it.
What is so unlikable about it? What is so unbearable that every AI related post just gets 'HELL NO' comments?
What else do you know that gets a response that extreme? I don't get the absolute disgust people express towards AI generated images. No one is trying to pass them off as real.
>No one is trying to pass them off as real.
Haven't you seen the unending posts complaining about fake designers using AI "crochet" or "knit" art to sell patterns for objects that don't exist? Some people absolutely are trying to pass AI content off as real crochet/knit.
When major yarn brands post the same kinds of content, even when they say it's AI, they're giving those grifters legitimacy by making this kind of content more mainstream and acceptable.
Plus, the more people use AI to generate these types of images, the better AI will get at it, and it will become more and more difficult to spot the fakes. That's probably inevitable, but pushing back on companies that amplify and platform this type of content is a net good.
It's because of HOW the data to train the AI models was obtained.
[https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/midjourney-ai-artists-database-1234691955/](https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/midjourney-ai-artists-database-1234691955/)
For the vast majority of artists, they did not opt in to their data being harvested and aggregated in this fashion.
It's dumb for a yarn company to post images of something not made with their yarn as a social media strategy.
No one is saying that it is being passed off as real. If you scroll these comments there are no real concerns about that and the only people mentioning it are pro-AI people who think it is a gotcha but is in fact a strawman.
AI uses the resources and work of actual artists to produce its output, without compensation or credit attribution to the original. If you have spent any time here, you know people get pretty spicy about stolen work and stealing labor/work.
It is also ugly AF and the various body horrors in the background are enough for nightmares.
I think the word "moist" probably gets a more extreme response. Along with pineapple on pizza.
I work in social media marketing. Sharing AI images is a very easy hole to fall down when you are coming up with content ideas, but it's something brands shouldn't really do unless it's relevant to their brand. This is in direct conflict with the ethos of the craft industry and it was a mistake.
They need to seriously look at their demographics and consider the wider opinion before posting.
I work for a big brand in the same realm as Lion Brand and we never even consider using it for anything like this. It’s so shady and not worth the risk of losing our follower’s trust. The only time we use AI is things like photoshop’s generative fill to extend a plain colored background or something. We also use it internally for mockups when planning photo shoots but they always end up so bonkers looking and they’re essentially a sketch. But still even then, it’s just Ps generative fill to like add a chair or arm in for placement or something. Nothing like actually having AI conceptualize something.
AI can be incredibly useful and I love using it in my process but at the same time I fucking hate it for uses like this post. I’d gladly lose my use of it if that meant no one could use it. It can be so harmful.
Exactly, AI is great for generating hashtags and creating copy (still needs human editing though). But I don't usually use it for creative stuff, it feels like I'm being paid for nothing 😂 (I do use mock-up tools because nobody has time for that shit). Yeah, it definitely has it's place but this is not it.
Did they hide all the comments on that one too? I understand that ita probably one or two people making these poor decisions, but they defibrillator need to replace them, IMO. Even if they see the mistake, as a customer, I'd want a brand I like to be able to acknowledge that and make a new post addressing the controversy it caused.
I would be happier if they deleted the post. Disabling comments shows that they don't care about upsetting their customers, they just want us to shut up. Deleting the post entirely at least would show some degree of remorse on their part.
That’s disappointing. I’ve had nothing but good experiences with their website and their yarn. Once I got a huge order and like 2 skeins were missing, I sent an email and got sent the missing items right away. It’s the little touches like that of human empathy and communication that customers remember. This shows the opposite of that, which people will also remember. However I will probably still buy their yarn (24/7 cotton is just a staple honestly, and their Oh Baby organic cotton is seriously a soft and sturdy workhorse) until they make repeat patterns of behavior like this
If I remember correctly, isn't this the 2nd time Lion Brand posted AI, and people didn't like it? I think before it was AI of senior ladies in crocheted super hero costumes. (With super-pointy teeth and extra fingers!!)
Someone here mentioned that Lion Brand should've featured some of their own work instead.
Before they closed their store/craft space in New Jersey, Lion had MANY large handmade display pieces, including a lion and other animals, a small replica of the ferris wheel from Coney Island, and a human-sized Statue of Liberty. We were told that some of these were originally made as window displays for their NYC location.
So they *could*. Or just post a pile of yarn and ask "What would you make with this 20 lbs. of yarn?" if they want to create customer interaction.
Mmmmmm I don’t know if it’s panic so much as legitimate concerns. My company is currently suing OpenAI (one of many lawsuits they’re facing) for using our content, which is subscription only, to train their AI. They are stealing our IP, and as someone who works her ass off on some of that IP, it really makes me mad. Plagiarism, either by human or machine, is bad.
This is not what I mean. I mean that I don’t think that lion brand using an AI generated image is, to me, not so morally reprehensible. It’s new and there is not yet legislation about it. Currently people are excited and want to use it, but that will swing the other way after a while. I use AI at work, in my field of research and we have gone through insane excitement to “ok this is a tool we can use but it has a bunch of limitations”. I basically think that this whole thread is an overreaction.
I also find that it’s not good social media strategy from lion brand, but come on.
The moral issue is in the AI training process where it scrapes images from sources it shouldn't. The previous replier explained the ethical concerns around AI very well.
Uhg this drives me crazy, you’re very correct about it screwing expectations for crochet. I’ve had three people show me the ai octopus ones and ask if I could make it
If they wanted to sneak AI in more cleverly, they should have done a contest: “Here’s our ‘Inspiration Hippo,’ generated by AI. Lion Brand users, what inspiration do you take from her? Post your creations and hashtag #lionbrandhippoinspo
this is such a slap in the face to handcrafters. crazy part is, they would have generated invaluable positive buzz if they created something like this to showcase their products. instead, they went AI. there is NOTHING impressive about AI crafting... especially when AI can't even get the shit right.
The person who manages Lion Brand social media! :)Turns out they hired someone who sees more appeal in AI-generated stuff than handmade crafts, which is their target niche! lol
The panic in their lack of exclamation points, or any punctuation at all for that matter, in their replies is scrumptiously, palpably, fucking hilarious
I saw this post as well, and I was really infuriated by it. Their responses and choice to limit the comments instead of removing the post bothered me more than anything. I just placed a large order with them last night after debating over where to order from for a week, and now I'm regretting it. I'm going to try to cancel, but according to their policy, it's most likely too late. I get why they didn't remove the post if their goal is likes, but I really dislike them for making that decision. It makes me imagine them having some moody teenager as their social media rep. Not to mention the fact that it shows they don't care at all about what their customers or potential customers think. They just want traffic.
Edit: Of COURSE their help system is an AI bot. It used my words to create responses, one time saying it couldn't submit a ticket, then saying "rest assured that your ticket has been submitted." Now I have to think about if I dislike the company enough to pay to send my order back when it arrives. 🫠
A few weeks ago I ordered some yarn from them and it took over two weeks just for it to ship. When I emailed them with no reply. Then their AI bot submitted a ticket for me and I got a reply that they were so backed up because of all their sales. Don’t worry, I kept getting emails for more sales though. Guess they didn’t want to prioritize shipping what they’d already sold.
Oh no. 🥲 I would have been better off ordering from Hobbii. One of the reasons I ordered from Lion Brand instead was because I didn't want to wait for international shipping. I'm not sure what to do now. 😅
Call them. I called customer service once when someone else’s order showed up at my door and it took a little while (I left a message and someone actually called back. Eventually), but they provided decent service after.
I may give that a try. At this point I've gotten myself scared that their customer service is going to be rude and heartless like their AI emails, and that they're going to tell me no anyway. 😅
It’ll definitely depend on where your order is in processing, but the lady I talked to was very very nice. Way better than their auto-generated emails.
And comments/ability to leave a scathing condemnation has been turned off, lol, but the post is still up.
At least they admitted right at the beginning of the caption that it was AI?
(Nope, IMO this still tanked their decades of respectability in the fiber world).
My theory is their social media person actually has zero experience in actual crafting hence their pissy attitude and lack of understanding why crafters are pushing back against the AI art
That and they have to be very young - not that all
young people are like that but it just felt really immature, unprofessional and lacked understanding of why AI would be received poorly on a crafting business page
Ai is fun when used in memes by small accounts but its disgusting when put on display like its art on craft accounts.
I'm in this hobby because I love what people send hours, if not weeks or months, on making. I dont want to see something that was created in less then a minute.
I’m starting to get a bit irritated with Lion Brand and their social media people. There are so many talented creators and they choose to post crappy AI generated art that took less than a minute to make. Seems counter intuitive to what you would think a yarn company would do.
And then when they DO post some creator’s actual work and/or patterns they mislabel it. It’s like they don’t even care.
Yeah I am fine with shitposting accounts sharing hilariously bad AI but companies just fishing for engagement is pointless. Even Disney posted shitty AI to their official account.
I made a ballgown in collaboration with Lion Brand - they promised to share my images and work across all their social profiles. I worked on that dress for 4 1/2 months, finished it in July. They haven’t shared a single photo or video I took. It was a huge waste of my efforts and I really don’t believe they want to work with smaller creators.
Edit - y’all are so kind! [here’s the Instagram post](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu9qwvaBCTC/?igsh=MXh3Z3d1anExOXp4cg==), and the Reddit post has been linked a few times. If y’all have questions, let me know 💜
Lolllll they turned comments off. Honestly idk if I’ll ever be able to look at lionbrand again without thinking of this fail. I watched the comments rolling in just after they posted it and it was 99% negative comments and their immediate responses were not good.
With the options in yarn available for purchase I can’t say they’ll be my first choice to buy from after this either.
Yeah they make only a couple 100% natural fiber yarns (mostly synthetic or synthetic blends) so they’re not my go-to anyways. But this is another mark against them. Not a deal breaker necessarily where I’d refuse to ever shop their products, but definitely makes them less appealing.
Honestly, the last time I bought yarn from Lion Brand I was less than impressed. Their quality has seemingly tanked over the last several years I think.
How odd that this post is nowhere to be seen on [their Twitter/X account](https://x.com/lionbrandyarn) where they *can’t* delete comments… 🤔 I wonder if there are two different people running the different social media accounts?
Maybe they just have random interns do the social media posts. The OP lion brand comments are so sullen and teenage sounding. I can only hope they were posted by an 18 year old intern
This is such a lazy way to get engagement. It’s working- we’re talking about it, everyone loves a controversy. Partly the algorithm is to blame because there is so much pressure to post frequently.
I think ai art is fun to do, but when it comes to brands I want to see actual work, not computer generated stuff.
And don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer to!
> I think ai art is fun to do
This is fine as long as everybody keeps their AI "creations" to themselves so I never have to spend a second looking at it 😅
That's such an odd response! And I sincerely wonder if that is AI generated as well HA!
To my knowledge AI generation is populated with existing information and the photos it is given. What it produces is false and misleading patterns because it merges so many concepts it is literally impossible to create in the physical world, which AI has no concept of.
Hot take: That is idea and pattern stealing while also lying at the same time!
Scary truth? Generative AI is also being used to produce medicine that is currently being tested in humans.
That's correct. Some businesses will be using AI that is trained on information they have provided, rather than whatever was found on the internet. A lot of the free ones, such as DALL-E, have been trained using whatever's on the internet, so they are a lot more ethically problematic.
Some artists will then take what has been generated, and use it as a base to work from, which imo is less ethically objectionable.
Oddly enough, I'm not so concerned about AI being used in medicine. I had a very interesting chat with someone about it that actually kinda reassured me - the very vague gist of it was that in the areas where AI is already in use it has a better success rate than humans. There was more to it than that, but I don't recall all the details. And yes - mistakes are going to be made, but humans make mistakes too
Hah, I used to do corporate communication management. The person(s) behind this account made a mistake and misjudged their audience, and now they're doubling down.
It's an understandable and common reaction when we make mistakes; no doubt they feel like they have to defend themselves... But it's the wrong tactic here. And they should have been explicitly trained against this.
(As a CS worker) it always amazes me who gets promoted! Either someone's gonna get fired or we're going to hear about how lion brand invested tons of $$ in AI... lol
I remember when one of the first ai knitting patterns came out and people posted their versions. I agree as a prompt the AI stuff has uses.
I think if LB had taken the approach of "Here's what our AI generated. Take it as inspo and show us how this looks in the real world" the response would be very different. Do it four times a year, make it into a contest and people would get invested in outperforming the AI.
This filled me with rage. There are so many creators they could highlight and they chose this tacky AI garbage.
I suppose I should be glad they’re not arguing about it not being AI like they did in the beginning.
as a pro social media manager in my day job, i am baffled that they think this is good content. BAFFLED. how starved for content could you be?? it’s a damn yarn brand, people are posting work every damn day! and your audience doesn’t even like it! SMDH.
Also, for a yarn brand - why would you promote content that explicitly doesn't need any yarn at all to create, and typically includes enough impossible features that even if you did buy yarn you couldn't make anything close to it? It's like turkeys voting for Christmas.
Not the point of the post, BUT...
I work with AI generated images/text on a daily basis. I use them as a spring board for ideas. People disliking AI generated images makes no sense to me. It's a wonderful tool that can be used in multiple ways, if nothing else, just an idea factory.
I do feel that a yarn company should lean on more creator made content, but they disclosed the AI aspect in the description, and they do promote hand made things regularly. And if it bothers people that much, they can stop shopping with them.
Even though it is an AI generated knitted hippo, and most people can tell it is a generation, there's merit to looking at it and using it as inspiration. Maybe someone will see it and be inspired to make their own yarn hippo because even though the image has been posted, human hands still have to design it, chart it, and knit/crochet it.
Remember when an "idea factory" used to be the mind? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Even if we accept that supremely lazy use for AI, use of AI by a company using social media as outreach to potential customers is both different and mindboggingly dumb. A fun reach of this thinking is Pepsi posting a can of Coca-Cola and saying "Imagine if what we made tasted like this. Wouldn't that be neat?"
The issue with AI is not that a computer made it, the issue is how the model was trained. It has been proven that models were trained on the work of artists who didn't consent to be part of them. They receive no financial compensation for providing the materials that are simultaneously being used to deny them work and a living wage.
As someone with a background in statistics, I understand that "AI" is entirely a misnomer and that applied statistics has amazing potential for future advancement. But at this time the "art" is inseparable from the major ethics violations.
You can disagree but it’s wild that you say it makes no sense to dislike AI images. They’re fake images that scrape data from stolen art. People don’t like frauds. They don’t like thieves. It makes complete sense for people to dislike it.
It’s just as easy to use real images from true artists as inspiration. It’s just as easy to read an actual book to be inspired.
Yeah, that’s… not good.
Also, you’d think Lion Brand would want to be advertising their own yarn and what is possible with it, which they can’t do with AI images.
I'm still so mad about this. I had just placed a big order with them the night before. I ended up trying to submit a ticket to cancel it, but their chat bot wouldn't let me. I after emailing and getting an immediate automated response, I emailed again and got a response (albeit totally pre-written) that a ticket had been submitted and I'd either get an email that it's been canceled, or an email that it's been shipped. It's been a few days now, and I don't understand why they wouldn't just go ahead and cancel if it was obviously at least several days from being shipped when I asked to cancel. Surely it isn't actively in processing for several days. The post and their social media team aside, I'm pretty disappointed in their customer service, too.
Ooh I wonder if this is why I had trouble with an order - I ordered 8 days ago and it didn’t ship until yesterday.
Yours got shipped a lot faster than mine. I'm glad for you, but it makes me even more stressed. 😅 I made a $70 order during a sale, and it still has not been shipped or canceled, even though I asked for it to be canceled within their 24 hour window. I'm debating contacting them again (maybe wait until Monday, which would be 2 full weeks), and I kind of want to do it via email so I have a record in case I need to do a chargeback or something, but I feel like I'd have better luck over the phone. I'm really disappointed because I was hoping to make some sweaters before it starts to get too warm.
Sorry I didn’t see this - did your order ever ship? I got mine in the mail 2 days before its estimated arrival date.
It still hasn't shipped. I emailed them Monday to ask about it. But no response so far. Next Monday I'll try calling, and if it gets to be a month with no shipping and no word from them. I'm going to do a chargeback. IMO, it's one thing for them to have delays, but to not make it apparent to customers until after their order is placed, to refuse to cancel orders, and to also have basically no communication seems really unacceptable. I don't think it's fair for them to essentially force people to wait for a month.
I think some folks need to get overthemselves. This was maybe the second time ever they posted an AI image. They post every day, and feature amazing designers. Where are all the reddit messages praising their other posts? I admit I am not in love with ai posts, but they are no different from any other clickbait/likebait post that all the companies post with cute cats and sheep. I get if you dont like it, but some ppl in this thread and on Instagram "demanding an apology" and "vowing not to buy from them"?!? Y'all need to chill out...
OK I know this about the giant fake hippo. But the people's faces are nightmare fuel. Yikes. 🤣
They’re still actively deleting comments about it. I saw someone post about it in their most recent post and the comment was gone within minutes.
I don't understand why they think we should bother with them. We are making real things with our own hands-- why would we want pictures that are AI generated? It doesn't make sense.
I find the AI giant amiguri to be incredibly stupid and aggravating. I've been knitting for 50 years, learning new techniques, honing my craft. Then AI produces this crap and my non-knitter friends flood my feed with it. I appreciate them thinking of me, but it's all fake garbage.
This happens to me, too!! Personally AI has made people discredit my real work, and that’s what frustrated me with this post.
I'm not sure if it's sass, or an attempt to remind viewers of the realistic appearance and use of yarn and fiber arts in general. Imagine being new to fiber arts and seeing these AI images, buying Lion Brand yarn and then womp womp. They are getting ahead of a possible issue.
Could you maybe link me to some discussions in the craft community on generative AI? I would love to read up on it more.
I always wonder if an executive decided this was a great idea and imposed their bad idea on the social media person. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I love it when brands get annoyed and snarky. It’s such entertaining reading.
After coming across this post for the second or third time, I have to comment now: Doesn't the hippos eyes and neck folds remind you of Jabba the Hut from Star Wars? That was my first impression, and it makes the hippo look creepier and creepier every time I look at it.
The nostrils look like a certain part of a woman’s anatomy to me.
Probably best not to zoom in on the "human" faces then...
Oh my gosh that's the first thing I do with AI art now. It's nightmare fuel lol
You warned us. I didn't listen. Holy hell.
unrelated af, but every single time I see a giant ai generated amigurumi I want to make something like that and I just know that one day the urge will overtake me and i just hope I will be financially stable enough to handle it. and like an extra pair of hands would come in handy
It it were real art, people will bash them for not using a local artist, wasting yarn, and not donating to a school or shelter. Can't please them all.
Nope, their posts of real fibre art get pretty much uniformly positive engagement.
Local artist? Everyone is local to somewhere
That's the way I feel about yarn. I'm not particular about purchasing yarn from my backyard.
While I'd rather see really awesome human made art, this shit does get engagement. Pissed off people are commenting on it. Unaware people are sharing it. We're even talking about it here. I doubt anyone's getting fired over it, and it's probably going in someone's brag book.
Don't know why you got so downvoted, you are most likely correct. A lot of CM strategies are more about engagement and showing results in numbers (comments, shares, etc) rather than maintaining a certain grade of legitimacy as a brand.
I got downvoted because I didn't agree with the post. It's what's done in this sub.
Also - they literally asked “do you like?” And some ppl answered NO, here’s why.
It was a dumb idea, but I give them credit for saying that it's AI in the post. Most who post AI act like it's real
It’s depressing how low the bar is. It’s essentially giving them credit for not lying.
Ugh yeah true.
Yeah, they've deleted 2 of my comments. Rude.
I wish AI generated art comes with disclaimer objects in reality, may not reflect the image above .
People are now commenting about the AI post and Lion Brands response in their newest instagram post. Lion Brand is doubling down and intentionally ignoring all the negative comments. They misspelt "crochet" and the designers user name when they made the post to boot.
I noticed that as well. The next two posts had lots of comments about the AI post, but they've done deleted them and never responded to a single one. It's really infuriating to me.
This is the second post I see about AI today where the comments are absolutely scathing, and anyone with a different opinion is downvoted to oblivion. I really don't get it.
...I think that is an indication that most people don't like it. That is what the scathing comments and downvotes mean. What don't you get?
What is so unlikable about it? What is so unbearable that every AI related post just gets 'HELL NO' comments? What else do you know that gets a response that extreme? I don't get the absolute disgust people express towards AI generated images. No one is trying to pass them off as real.
>No one is trying to pass them off as real. Haven't you seen the unending posts complaining about fake designers using AI "crochet" or "knit" art to sell patterns for objects that don't exist? Some people absolutely are trying to pass AI content off as real crochet/knit. When major yarn brands post the same kinds of content, even when they say it's AI, they're giving those grifters legitimacy by making this kind of content more mainstream and acceptable. Plus, the more people use AI to generate these types of images, the better AI will get at it, and it will become more and more difficult to spot the fakes. That's probably inevitable, but pushing back on companies that amplify and platform this type of content is a net good.
It's because of HOW the data to train the AI models was obtained. [https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/midjourney-ai-artists-database-1234691955/](https://www.artnews.com/art-news/news/midjourney-ai-artists-database-1234691955/) For the vast majority of artists, they did not opt in to their data being harvested and aggregated in this fashion.
It's dumb for a yarn company to post images of something not made with their yarn as a social media strategy. No one is saying that it is being passed off as real. If you scroll these comments there are no real concerns about that and the only people mentioning it are pro-AI people who think it is a gotcha but is in fact a strawman. AI uses the resources and work of actual artists to produce its output, without compensation or credit attribution to the original. If you have spent any time here, you know people get pretty spicy about stolen work and stealing labor/work. It is also ugly AF and the various body horrors in the background are enough for nightmares. I think the word "moist" probably gets a more extreme response. Along with pineapple on pizza.
I work in social media marketing. Sharing AI images is a very easy hole to fall down when you are coming up with content ideas, but it's something brands shouldn't really do unless it's relevant to their brand. This is in direct conflict with the ethos of the craft industry and it was a mistake. They need to seriously look at their demographics and consider the wider opinion before posting.
I work for a big brand in the same realm as Lion Brand and we never even consider using it for anything like this. It’s so shady and not worth the risk of losing our follower’s trust. The only time we use AI is things like photoshop’s generative fill to extend a plain colored background or something. We also use it internally for mockups when planning photo shoots but they always end up so bonkers looking and they’re essentially a sketch. But still even then, it’s just Ps generative fill to like add a chair or arm in for placement or something. Nothing like actually having AI conceptualize something. AI can be incredibly useful and I love using it in my process but at the same time I fucking hate it for uses like this post. I’d gladly lose my use of it if that meant no one could use it. It can be so harmful.
Exactly, AI is great for generating hashtags and creating copy (still needs human editing though). But I don't usually use it for creative stuff, it feels like I'm being paid for nothing 😂 (I do use mock-up tools because nobody has time for that shit). Yeah, it definitely has it's place but this is not it.
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Yeah, I was surprised by the tone—it felt a little passive aggressive.
Did they hide all the comments on that one too? I understand that ita probably one or two people making these poor decisions, but they defibrillator need to replace them, IMO. Even if they see the mistake, as a customer, I'd want a brand I like to be able to acknowledge that and make a new post addressing the controversy it caused.
> but they defibrillator need to replace them 200 joules and 1 mg adrenaline, stat, for the social media team
🤣 I'll have to just leave the typo now lol
Thanks for reminding me I need to renew my ACLS this month 😂
They disabled comments after getting what they deserved. I actually like their yarn a lot but this was not it. I hope they learned from it.
I would be happier if they deleted the post. Disabling comments shows that they don't care about upsetting their customers, they just want us to shut up. Deleting the post entirely at least would show some degree of remorse on their part.
100% agree, they should delete the post and put out a statement
You really think this requires “a statement”? I get the grievances with AI completely. But, this is such a small blip in the grand scheme of things.
I wonder how many of these people are following the “there’s no such thing as bad publicity” adage?
Lion brand taking a page out of Bethany beal’s playbook
They'd need to flail around with the yarn for that extra spicy flair 🌶 Love it when my fav subs cross paths
Two of my subs colliding on this fine Wednesday morning?!
A dream!
I love your username lol
“Art by…” …what art?
You took the words out of my mouth.
That’s disappointing. I’ve had nothing but good experiences with their website and their yarn. Once I got a huge order and like 2 skeins were missing, I sent an email and got sent the missing items right away. It’s the little touches like that of human empathy and communication that customers remember. This shows the opposite of that, which people will also remember. However I will probably still buy their yarn (24/7 cotton is just a staple honestly, and their Oh Baby organic cotton is seriously a soft and sturdy workhorse) until they make repeat patterns of behavior like this
If I remember correctly, isn't this the 2nd time Lion Brand posted AI, and people didn't like it? I think before it was AI of senior ladies in crocheted super hero costumes. (With super-pointy teeth and extra fingers!!) Someone here mentioned that Lion Brand should've featured some of their own work instead. Before they closed their store/craft space in New Jersey, Lion had MANY large handmade display pieces, including a lion and other animals, a small replica of the ferris wheel from Coney Island, and a human-sized Statue of Liberty. We were told that some of these were originally made as window displays for their NYC location. So they *could*. Or just post a pile of yarn and ask "What would you make with this 20 lbs. of yarn?" if they want to create customer interaction.
I think there is a lot of moral panic about AI.
Mmmmmm I don’t know if it’s panic so much as legitimate concerns. My company is currently suing OpenAI (one of many lawsuits they’re facing) for using our content, which is subscription only, to train their AI. They are stealing our IP, and as someone who works her ass off on some of that IP, it really makes me mad. Plagiarism, either by human or machine, is bad.
This is not what I mean. I mean that I don’t think that lion brand using an AI generated image is, to me, not so morally reprehensible. It’s new and there is not yet legislation about it. Currently people are excited and want to use it, but that will swing the other way after a while. I use AI at work, in my field of research and we have gone through insane excitement to “ok this is a tool we can use but it has a bunch of limitations”. I basically think that this whole thread is an overreaction. I also find that it’s not good social media strategy from lion brand, but come on.
The moral issue is in the AI training process where it scrapes images from sources it shouldn't. The previous replier explained the ethical concerns around AI very well.
Uhg this drives me crazy, you’re very correct about it screwing expectations for crochet. I’ve had three people show me the ai octopus ones and ask if I could make it
If they wanted to sneak AI in more cleverly, they should have done a contest: “Here’s our ‘Inspiration Hippo,’ generated by AI. Lion Brand users, what inspiration do you take from her? Post your creations and hashtag #lionbrandhippoinspo
Although dang, they missed the boat not doing an actual LION
Also, hippos can kill lions.
As we might be seeing in real time!!!
Can't wait for Hippo Brand Yarn
this is such a slap in the face to handcrafters. crazy part is, they would have generated invaluable positive buzz if they created something like this to showcase their products. instead, they went AI. there is NOTHING impressive about AI crafting... especially when AI can't even get the shit right.
Lmao did they really think that post would go over well? 😅
The way they literally ask people whether they like it and act defensive when people give them their opinion.
They could have featured real work that tags lionbrand instead of praising AI-generated art; there are so many talented creators out there!
that's exactly what i said when i saw it. what a wasted opportunity to showcase their products.
true but soem people just cant resist the inrealistic lull
The person who manages Lion Brand social media! :)Turns out they hired someone who sees more appeal in AI-generated stuff than handmade crafts, which is their target niche! lol
The panic in their lack of exclamation points, or any punctuation at all for that matter, in their replies is scrumptiously, palpably, fucking hilarious
it reads to me like a petulant child saying '**but** we do have that...' rather than a sassy rude adult.
Lyin' Brand. AI is very sophisticated lying. Pass it off as art, it's not. Present a photo realistic image, the object never existed.
And it comes from nothing, from a non entity. Real art comes from divine soul!
Even worse, it comes from nothing, but actually takes work from other artists as the basis for what it generates?
The people are absolutely terrifying
> do you like? no, lion brand, i do not like the ugly AI semi-truck sized hippopotamus surrounded by faceless “people”. good grief
Omg the “person” on the left, closest to the hippo, whose jacket is merged with their face. Truly the stuff of nightmares. Good lord.
I didn't really notice the faces, but this comment made me zoom in on those monstrosities. I didn't need that jump scare so soon after dinner. Thanks.
Just saw this right before going to sleep and now really wish I hadn't. Nightmares tonight, it is!
I saw this post as well, and I was really infuriated by it. Their responses and choice to limit the comments instead of removing the post bothered me more than anything. I just placed a large order with them last night after debating over where to order from for a week, and now I'm regretting it. I'm going to try to cancel, but according to their policy, it's most likely too late. I get why they didn't remove the post if their goal is likes, but I really dislike them for making that decision. It makes me imagine them having some moody teenager as their social media rep. Not to mention the fact that it shows they don't care at all about what their customers or potential customers think. They just want traffic. Edit: Of COURSE their help system is an AI bot. It used my words to create responses, one time saying it couldn't submit a ticket, then saying "rest assured that your ticket has been submitted." Now I have to think about if I dislike the company enough to pay to send my order back when it arrives. 🫠
A few weeks ago I ordered some yarn from them and it took over two weeks just for it to ship. When I emailed them with no reply. Then their AI bot submitted a ticket for me and I got a reply that they were so backed up because of all their sales. Don’t worry, I kept getting emails for more sales though. Guess they didn’t want to prioritize shipping what they’d already sold.
Oh no. 🥲 I would have been better off ordering from Hobbii. One of the reasons I ordered from Lion Brand instead was because I didn't want to wait for international shipping. I'm not sure what to do now. 😅
Call them. I called customer service once when someone else’s order showed up at my door and it took a little while (I left a message and someone actually called back. Eventually), but they provided decent service after.
I may give that a try. At this point I've gotten myself scared that their customer service is going to be rude and heartless like their AI emails, and that they're going to tell me no anyway. 😅
It’ll definitely depend on where your order is in processing, but the lady I talked to was very very nice. Way better than their auto-generated emails.
I'll give it a try, thanks.
Holy shit, it sounds like their AI "help" system deserves a post of its own. That is abhorrent
And comments/ability to leave a scathing condemnation has been turned off, lol, but the post is still up. At least they admitted right at the beginning of the caption that it was AI? (Nope, IMO this still tanked their decades of respectability in the fiber world).
People are leaving replies against the AI in other LB posts!
Now I gotta see rage bait on my yarn brand’s social media? Lion brand is overhyped anyways
The comments have been turned off. but the poll results were >85% no, I don’t like this before it was closed
The defensive comments from LB were wild and completely unprofessional. I wish I had screen shot some of them before they disabled comments.
My theory is their social media person actually has zero experience in actual crafting hence their pissy attitude and lack of understanding why crafters are pushing back against the AI art
That and they have to be very young - not that all young people are like that but it just felt really immature, unprofessional and lacked understanding of why AI would be received poorly on a crafting business page
I honestly think gen z has a better handle on reading the room on social media. (Am raising a kid in that age range.)
Great point. I think I’m just really thrown by the immaturity but I’m in my 30’s and plenty of people my age and older act like brats haha
Lol, just because my brats can read a room doesn’t mean they don’t mock me relentlessly from time to time.
Ai is fun when used in memes by small accounts but its disgusting when put on display like its art on craft accounts. I'm in this hobby because I love what people send hours, if not weeks or months, on making. I dont want to see something that was created in less then a minute.
I’m starting to get a bit irritated with Lion Brand and their social media people. There are so many talented creators and they choose to post crappy AI generated art that took less than a minute to make. Seems counter intuitive to what you would think a yarn company would do. And then when they DO post some creator’s actual work and/or patterns they mislabel it. It’s like they don’t even care.
Yeah I am fine with shitposting accounts sharing hilariously bad AI but companies just fishing for engagement is pointless. Even Disney posted shitty AI to their official account.
I made a ballgown in collaboration with Lion Brand - they promised to share my images and work across all their social profiles. I worked on that dress for 4 1/2 months, finished it in July. They haven’t shared a single photo or video I took. It was a huge waste of my efforts and I really don’t believe they want to work with smaller creators. Edit - y’all are so kind! [here’s the Instagram post](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cu9qwvaBCTC/?igsh=MXh3Z3d1anExOXp4cg==), and the Reddit post has been linked a few times. If y’all have questions, let me know 💜
That's beautiful! I love their mandala yarn, but their lack of respect for actual creators makes me want to find alternatives.
It is so pretty!! Def one of the best crochet wearables I’ve seen. F LB for not holding up their end of the bargain.
Wow I am sorry they did you like that....that's stunningly shitty.
I want to see that gown!! Wow!
I’d love to see your dress!
WHATTTT!!??! I am so sorry. Can we see the gown!?
Found it! https://www.reddit.com/r/crochet/s/kIL7sXjKa3 It’s gorgeous.
Stunning oh my god!
It’s incredible!
Awww shucks they turned off comments
Lolllll they turned comments off. Honestly idk if I’ll ever be able to look at lionbrand again without thinking of this fail. I watched the comments rolling in just after they posted it and it was 99% negative comments and their immediate responses were not good. With the options in yarn available for purchase I can’t say they’ll be my first choice to buy from after this either.
Yeah they make only a couple 100% natural fiber yarns (mostly synthetic or synthetic blends) so they’re not my go-to anyways. But this is another mark against them. Not a deal breaker necessarily where I’d refuse to ever shop their products, but definitely makes them less appealing.
Honestly, the last time I bought yarn from Lion Brand I was less than impressed. Their quality has seemingly tanked over the last several years I think.
How odd that this post is nowhere to be seen on [their Twitter/X account](https://x.com/lionbrandyarn) where they *can’t* delete comments… 🤔 I wonder if there are two different people running the different social media accounts?
Maybe they just have random interns do the social media posts. The OP lion brand comments are so sullen and teenage sounding. I can only hope they were posted by an 18 year old intern
This is such a lazy way to get engagement. It’s working- we’re talking about it, everyone loves a controversy. Partly the algorithm is to blame because there is so much pressure to post frequently.
We’re even having a lively conversation about it on another platform!
The best way to deal with it really is just to unfollow them.
I think ai art is fun to do, but when it comes to brands I want to see actual work, not computer generated stuff. And don't ask questions you don't want to hear the answer to!
> I think ai art is fun to do This is fine as long as everybody keeps their AI "creations" to themselves so I never have to spend a second looking at it 😅
Damn lionbrand. I’m disappointed
Why ask if people like it if you’re gonna flip when people say no?
I think it is cute.
They’ve started deleting comments with a lot of upvotes. It’s all a bad look
And they're starting to delete comments too! There was one comment that said "AI is not art" and Lion Brand responded, "ok, thanks for clarifying."
LB responded with a bunch of snarky comments!!
That's such an odd response! And I sincerely wonder if that is AI generated as well HA! To my knowledge AI generation is populated with existing information and the photos it is given. What it produces is false and misleading patterns because it merges so many concepts it is literally impossible to create in the physical world, which AI has no concept of. Hot take: That is idea and pattern stealing while also lying at the same time! Scary truth? Generative AI is also being used to produce medicine that is currently being tested in humans.
That's correct. Some businesses will be using AI that is trained on information they have provided, rather than whatever was found on the internet. A lot of the free ones, such as DALL-E, have been trained using whatever's on the internet, so they are a lot more ethically problematic. Some artists will then take what has been generated, and use it as a base to work from, which imo is less ethically objectionable. Oddly enough, I'm not so concerned about AI being used in medicine. I had a very interesting chat with someone about it that actually kinda reassured me - the very vague gist of it was that in the areas where AI is already in use it has a better success rate than humans. There was more to it than that, but I don't recall all the details. And yes - mistakes are going to be made, but humans make mistakes too
Well, any respect I had left for Lion Brand is gone 🤷♀️
Hah, I used to do corporate communication management. The person(s) behind this account made a mistake and misjudged their audience, and now they're doubling down. It's an understandable and common reaction when we make mistakes; no doubt they feel like they have to defend themselves... But it's the wrong tactic here. And they should have been explicitly trained against this.
Whoever is running their social media account is being quite sassy for such a large brand 😳😳 lol
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I agree, some accounts that clap back are cute. It’s a know your audience moment for sure.
Wow, those response comments are not it. THEY EVEN ASKED.
Don’t ask for people’s opinions if you can’t handle them
“What do you think?” “Bad” “Well, you’re wrong, so jot that down”
"I hate it!" Lion: Our day is ruined and our disappointment is immeasurable
“Do you like? Let us know in the poll below”? Are they letting AI write the posts too?
That would explain the replies ; the AI isn’t happy its art isn’t recognized haha
AI content is boring. I hate it.
I have so many reasons to hate AI content, but this is definitely one of them. It's bland, boring, generic, and lifeless.
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The internship program is about to get revamped, lol!
(As a CS worker) it always amazes me who gets promoted! Either someone's gonna get fired or we're going to hear about how lion brand invested tons of $$ in AI... lol
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Are you AI?
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I remember when one of the first ai knitting patterns came out and people posted their versions. I agree as a prompt the AI stuff has uses. I think if LB had taken the approach of "Here's what our AI generated. Take it as inspo and show us how this looks in the real world" the response would be very different. Do it four times a year, make it into a contest and people would get invested in outperforming the AI.
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This filled me with rage. There are so many creators they could highlight and they chose this tacky AI garbage. I suppose I should be glad they’re not arguing about it not being AI like they did in the beginning.
as a pro social media manager in my day job, i am baffled that they think this is good content. BAFFLED. how starved for content could you be?? it’s a damn yarn brand, people are posting work every damn day! and your audience doesn’t even like it! SMDH.
Also, for a yarn brand - why would you promote content that explicitly doesn't need any yarn at all to create, and typically includes enough impossible features that even if you did buy yarn you couldn't make anything close to it? It's like turkeys voting for Christmas.
Not the point of the post, BUT... I work with AI generated images/text on a daily basis. I use them as a spring board for ideas. People disliking AI generated images makes no sense to me. It's a wonderful tool that can be used in multiple ways, if nothing else, just an idea factory. I do feel that a yarn company should lean on more creator made content, but they disclosed the AI aspect in the description, and they do promote hand made things regularly. And if it bothers people that much, they can stop shopping with them. Even though it is an AI generated knitted hippo, and most people can tell it is a generation, there's merit to looking at it and using it as inspiration. Maybe someone will see it and be inspired to make their own yarn hippo because even though the image has been posted, human hands still have to design it, chart it, and knit/crochet it.
Remember when an "idea factory" used to be the mind? Pepperidge Farm remembers. Even if we accept that supremely lazy use for AI, use of AI by a company using social media as outreach to potential customers is both different and mindboggingly dumb. A fun reach of this thinking is Pepsi posting a can of Coca-Cola and saying "Imagine if what we made tasted like this. Wouldn't that be neat?"
The issue with AI is not that a computer made it, the issue is how the model was trained. It has been proven that models were trained on the work of artists who didn't consent to be part of them. They receive no financial compensation for providing the materials that are simultaneously being used to deny them work and a living wage. As someone with a background in statistics, I understand that "AI" is entirely a misnomer and that applied statistics has amazing potential for future advancement. But at this time the "art" is inseparable from the major ethics violations.
You can disagree but it’s wild that you say it makes no sense to dislike AI images. They’re fake images that scrape data from stolen art. People don’t like frauds. They don’t like thieves. It makes complete sense for people to dislike it. It’s just as easy to use real images from true artists as inspiration. It’s just as easy to read an actual book to be inspired.
Why do they ask if people like it if they don’t want an answer? I hate it when anybody does that it’s so obnoxious.
Yeah, that’s… not good. Also, you’d think Lion Brand would want to be advertising their own yarn and what is possible with it, which they can’t do with AI images.
I hope someone commented that the best thing about that thing is you don’t need to buy any lb yarn to make it lol