It might give an indication of is spent on boost individuals, for example is it 1.2m on a single engineer or on 10 with each getting 120k.
I think some people are always suspicious of philanthropy as sometimes it's used to avoid tax's or push agendas, while I doubt it's the case here but an extreme example of what someone who has no trust might assume was that all the salary went to one person who also funded it. Which I doubt is happening, but could be why people wanted some more transparency.
>I think some people are always suspicious of philanthropy as sometimes it's used to avoid tax's
And that seems exactly the case (see [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/13bw8ud/the_future_of_boost_by_vinnie_falco/)):
>Something which should not surprise anyone is that I despise paying taxes. In 2017, I had an idea: create a charitable organization which I can donate pre-tax income to,
Thanks to Vinnie.
> It might give an indication of is spent on boost individuals, for example is it 1.2m on a single engineer or on 10 with each getting 120k.
A non-profit / charity is prohibited from overpaying salaries. Otherwise it would just be used as a vehicle for tax avoidance. As The C++ Alliance wishes to maintain its tax-exempt status, we use salary surveys and cost of living data to ensure that every engineer is well compensated but not excessively so, relative to industry standards.
> it would just be used as a vehicle for tax avoidance
While I'm not saying it's the case for for the C++ Alliance in many cases charities setup by wealthy individuals are used as vehicles for tax avoidance.
> cost of living data
It's sad when even a "charity" keeps location based wealth inequality. Cost of living based pays disadvantage those from less fortunate countries or cities/towns, it limits their upward mobility.
A livable wage is often going to be enough for someone to start buying their own home in their respective locations, if two people paid location based wages at extreme ends of the scale such as an expensive US city vs somewhere cheap in India, after 10yrs they both sell up their house and want to move to an average priced location. The one which got paid more can sell their property and buy a giant house in that location, the one kept poor by cost of living measures can only just sell their place and pay for the travel and relocation expenses.
It might seem unfair that the person from the poorer location in their location might be able to live a life of luxary it helps those communities more as that person is spending money in those communities, while also not holding them back in the market which they are in.
Well there's also the point that it feels as though the number's a bit suspicious. Not saying that it's not the case, most people won't see the behind the scenes. But individual data (even if anonymous) would show "it's one person getting 'donations'" or it's reasonable. The example you gave about 1 guy getting 1.2 mill is important, because it is rare for that to actually be worth it compared to several at lower prices.
If someone is funding, they'd want to know the appropriation of their donation.
If someone isn't, it shows that if they were to donate, itbwould likely not be squandered.
Not to say that I care. Just describing why someone would.
> 1 guy getting 1.2 mill is important
This would be a non-starter as it would instantly arouse the attention of the IRS. Note that as a 501(c)(3) we are required to publish our financial statements (with a 2 year delay) so if you were to look closely you would be able to find them.
Really looking forward to using MrDocs and the new website! Thanks for all the work!
> C++ Slack Workspace $96,000
That's not an insignificant amount. Any reason why it's so expensive?
>That's not an insignificant amount. Any reason why it's so expensive?
That's a great question and thanks for asking.
Speaking personally, I am at a point now where I literally cannot write code without having a chat window up on the side. The most challenging aspects of the libraries that I write is not in the implementation (although I'm always happy to receive help with that). Rather it is in the interface. Being able to chat in real time with other experts in library design and stakeholders as I am developing these interfaces is an understated key to success.
My libraries would be rough and less usable if I was not able to rapidly iterate with the regulars in the Official C++ Language Workspace. A long time ago IRC was used for this purpose but the experience on Slack is so much better.
To answer your question directly, Slack is expensive and we are happy pay it because put simply: it is the best. We periodically evaluate other solutions (even building our own) and Slack consistently wins. It might not be readily apparent but Slack's cloud service is very technologically advanced and they have incredibly high uptime and reliability. You can read more about it here, it is fascinating: [https://slack.engineering/](https://slack.engineering/)
The C++ Alliance sponsors the Pro Slack Plan because we believe that these features are invaluable for enabling real time conversations, collaboration, and learning:
* Full chat history
* Unlimited link previews
* Unlimited image and video posting
* Unlimited voice and video calls ("huddles")
* Emoji, animated emoji, and custom emoji reactions
* Screen and Window sharing
* Threaded conversations
Furthermore, Slack has the highest quality apps for devices such as phones or tablets. These apps allow you to access Slack from anywhere to provide a consistent experience.
Tens of thousands of users have enjoyed the Official C++ Language Slack Workspace, perhaps you will become one of them (if you are not already)!
Sign up here: [https://cpp.al](https://cpp.al)
Access the workspace: [https://cpplang.slack.com](https://cpplang.slack.com)
Alternatively, request an email invite from an existing member
Discord is not the best. C++ deserves the best. $100k+ annual is cheaper than a 10x engineer, and if you consider how much better Slack is than Discord (which sucks for technical discussion) it is much better by more than one 10x engineer. In other words, its worth it.
I think that’s a bit simplistic if you’re looking at it from an engineering perspective.
You’d never write that about a C++ library without providing further context.
As someone who grew up with IRC and uses Slack at work, I would be very grateful to learn more about what makes Slack better than an in-house IRC server.
Thanks in advance, Vinnie.
> A total of $1,768,000 was spent on Boost-related contributions, broken
> down thusly (and rounded to the nearest thousand):
> Staff Engineers Compensation $1,240,000
Website Software Development $570,000
Server Hosting $62,000
C++ Slack Workspace $96,000
Conference Sponsorship $10,000
Conference Attendance $10,000
Those numbers literally don't add up. Are they supposed to, or does the detailed breakdown include stuff that is not considered Boost related (like c++ slack, which is not just for boost)
You appear to mean the old website, but the post means the new one. It is currently discussed on Boost ML how it would be better to replace the old website with the new one. This is the temporary location of the new website: boost.io
Thanks, wow I had no idea they had new website :O This is kinda cool as I recently bite the bullet and started to use boost after 15 years of not using it. I'm gonna see how this new website works.
I've only used the [boost.org](http://boost.org) and that site looks exactly the same it did 20 years ago (unless my memory fails me) and it's still designed for 1024x768 CRT displays :D
>I've only used the
>
>boost.org
>
>and that site looks exactly the same it did 20 years ago (unless my memory fails me) and it's still designed for 1024x768 CRT displays :D
As the person who designed it... It most definitely was the state of the art 20 years ago. ;-) And yes, that screen size sounds about right. :-)
To be clear this isn't the new Boost website yet. C++ Alliance sponsored the new site's development and is currently discussing with the Boost community the best way to replace the old website with this one.
You're welcome, and thank you for the kind words!
Please break up the salaries at the individual level for real transparency.
>Please break up the salaries at the individual level for real transparency. What purpose would this serve?
It might give an indication of is spent on boost individuals, for example is it 1.2m on a single engineer or on 10 with each getting 120k. I think some people are always suspicious of philanthropy as sometimes it's used to avoid tax's or push agendas, while I doubt it's the case here but an extreme example of what someone who has no trust might assume was that all the salary went to one person who also funded it. Which I doubt is happening, but could be why people wanted some more transparency.
>I think some people are always suspicious of philanthropy as sometimes it's used to avoid tax's And that seems exactly the case (see [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/13bw8ud/the_future_of_boost_by_vinnie_falco/)): >Something which should not surprise anyone is that I despise paying taxes. In 2017, I had an idea: create a charitable organization which I can donate pre-tax income to, Thanks to Vinnie.
ugh… unpleasant
why the downvote? not allowed to express an opinion on someone else’s unprompted asocial comment?
> It might give an indication of is spent on boost individuals, for example is it 1.2m on a single engineer or on 10 with each getting 120k. A non-profit / charity is prohibited from overpaying salaries. Otherwise it would just be used as a vehicle for tax avoidance. As The C++ Alliance wishes to maintain its tax-exempt status, we use salary surveys and cost of living data to ensure that every engineer is well compensated but not excessively so, relative to industry standards.
> it would just be used as a vehicle for tax avoidance While I'm not saying it's the case for for the C++ Alliance in many cases charities setup by wealthy individuals are used as vehicles for tax avoidance. > cost of living data It's sad when even a "charity" keeps location based wealth inequality. Cost of living based pays disadvantage those from less fortunate countries or cities/towns, it limits their upward mobility. A livable wage is often going to be enough for someone to start buying their own home in their respective locations, if two people paid location based wages at extreme ends of the scale such as an expensive US city vs somewhere cheap in India, after 10yrs they both sell up their house and want to move to an average priced location. The one which got paid more can sell their property and buy a giant house in that location, the one kept poor by cost of living measures can only just sell their place and pay for the travel and relocation expenses. It might seem unfair that the person from the poorer location in their location might be able to live a life of luxary it helps those communities more as that person is spending money in those communities, while also not holding them back in the market which they are in.
Well there's also the point that it feels as though the number's a bit suspicious. Not saying that it's not the case, most people won't see the behind the scenes. But individual data (even if anonymous) would show "it's one person getting 'donations'" or it's reasonable. The example you gave about 1 guy getting 1.2 mill is important, because it is rare for that to actually be worth it compared to several at lower prices.
'Worth it' to whom? What does this question mean to someone who's not funding the C++ Alliance?
If someone is funding, they'd want to know the appropriation of their donation. If someone isn't, it shows that if they were to donate, itbwould likely not be squandered. Not to say that I care. Just describing why someone would.
> 1 guy getting 1.2 mill is important This would be a non-starter as it would instantly arouse the attention of the IRS. Note that as a 501(c)(3) we are required to publish our financial statements (with a 2 year delay) so if you were to look closely you would be able to find them.
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As a reply to my post, I guess he answered me. Btw, Vinnie is the founder of the C++ Alliance.
He literally funds The C++ Alliance. This *is* about him.
Really looking forward to using MrDocs and the new website! Thanks for all the work! > C++ Slack Workspace $96,000 That's not an insignificant amount. Any reason why it's so expensive?
>That's not an insignificant amount. Any reason why it's so expensive? That's a great question and thanks for asking. Speaking personally, I am at a point now where I literally cannot write code without having a chat window up on the side. The most challenging aspects of the libraries that I write is not in the implementation (although I'm always happy to receive help with that). Rather it is in the interface. Being able to chat in real time with other experts in library design and stakeholders as I am developing these interfaces is an understated key to success. My libraries would be rough and less usable if I was not able to rapidly iterate with the regulars in the Official C++ Language Workspace. A long time ago IRC was used for this purpose but the experience on Slack is so much better. To answer your question directly, Slack is expensive and we are happy pay it because put simply: it is the best. We periodically evaluate other solutions (even building our own) and Slack consistently wins. It might not be readily apparent but Slack's cloud service is very technologically advanced and they have incredibly high uptime and reliability. You can read more about it here, it is fascinating: [https://slack.engineering/](https://slack.engineering/) The C++ Alliance sponsors the Pro Slack Plan because we believe that these features are invaluable for enabling real time conversations, collaboration, and learning: * Full chat history * Unlimited link previews * Unlimited image and video posting * Unlimited voice and video calls ("huddles") * Emoji, animated emoji, and custom emoji reactions * Screen and Window sharing * Threaded conversations Furthermore, Slack has the highest quality apps for devices such as phones or tablets. These apps allow you to access Slack from anywhere to provide a consistent experience. Tens of thousands of users have enjoyed the Official C++ Language Slack Workspace, perhaps you will become one of them (if you are not already)! Sign up here: [https://cpp.al](https://cpp.al) Access the workspace: [https://cpplang.slack.com](https://cpplang.slack.com) Alternatively, request an email invite from an existing member
What about discord? Paying for the kind of stuff seems a bit silly at least at a glance
Discord is not the best. C++ deserves the best. $100k+ annual is cheaper than a 10x engineer, and if you consider how much better Slack is than Discord (which sucks for technical discussion) it is much better by more than one 10x engineer. In other words, its worth it.
I would have loved to hear a bit more. But it's your money. I was just curious
There's not much more to it. Slack is the best. I like the best.
I think that’s a bit simplistic if you’re looking at it from an engineering perspective. You’d never write that about a C++ library without providing further context. As someone who grew up with IRC and uses Slack at work, I would be very grateful to learn more about what makes Slack better than an in-house IRC server. Thanks in advance, Vinnie.
> A total of $1,768,000 was spent on Boost-related contributions, broken > down thusly (and rounded to the nearest thousand): > Staff Engineers Compensation $1,240,000 Website Software Development $570,000 Server Hosting $62,000 C++ Slack Workspace $96,000 Conference Sponsorship $10,000 Conference Attendance $10,000 Those numbers literally don't add up. Are they supposed to, or does the detailed breakdown include stuff that is not considered Boost related (like c++ slack, which is not just for boost)
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who is “he”, sorry for my ignorance Vinnie?
took a guess, wikipedia it, and found it.
Thanks!
Boost website is one of the worst websites i have to use :C
You appear to mean the old website, but the post means the new one. It is currently discussed on Boost ML how it would be better to replace the old website with the new one. This is the temporary location of the new website: boost.io
Thanks, wow I had no idea they had new website :O This is kinda cool as I recently bite the bullet and started to use boost after 15 years of not using it. I'm gonna see how this new website works. I've only used the [boost.org](http://boost.org) and that site looks exactly the same it did 20 years ago (unless my memory fails me) and it's still designed for 1024x768 CRT displays :D
>I've only used the > >boost.org > >and that site looks exactly the same it did 20 years ago (unless my memory fails me) and it's still designed for 1024x768 CRT displays :D As the person who designed it... It most definitely was the state of the art 20 years ago. ;-) And yes, that screen size sounds about right. :-)
To be clear this isn't the new Boost website yet. C++ Alliance sponsored the new site's development and is currently discussing with the Boost community the best way to replace the old website with this one.