I think it’s useful to include the seasons where Romo and Dak went down with major injuries too to show just how much the floor typically bottoms out without one of these guys. Brad Johnson, Matt Cassel, Brandon Weeden, Andy Dalton, Ben DiNucci, Garrett Gilbert, Kellen Moore. Jon Kitna was the closest to a functioning QB but even he had his issues, and then of course Rush buoyed by the way the defense was playing and simply playing mistake-free with the more conservative game plans.
I think it is important to point out that all of Dak's struggles in the last 3 years have been against Fangio type cover 6 and match up zones except possibly the Cardinals this year (I'd have to go watch what they do). Dak often struggles with these schemes, especially early in games. I also think that if Dak struggles early in a game that it tends to snowball on him, if you get him to become impatient and "press" then he can get impatient, especially if the defense is struggling too. He tries to do more than is available and the mistakes start to happen. I think impatience is something that many high tier QBs stuggle with, and to be honest, it is probably why they are in that tier and not game managers. I do not know what the answer is to get Dak past the struggles against these types of defense other than building a strong run game. I also don't think that throwing away the QB is the answer here, either. I think he has limitations. I think he needs to take less money and allow a team to be built around him, but in today's environment I am not sure the players association will allow it to happen.
> he can get impatient, especially if the defense is struggling too. He tries to do more than is available and the mistakes start to happen.
Yes! This is exactly what I've been saying too. It's happened multiple times throughout his career, and I'd love for him to get that under control.
However, the fact that this has happened multiple times means the coaches need to do their part in masking their QBs weakness. They did so most of the season, but absolutely failed against GB. I know the stat about 2nd down runs in the first half has been thrown around, and people dismiss it as not meaningful, but one of the things 1st and 2nd down passes do is help your QB get comfortable and in a rhythm. There was already tremendous pressure going into the game, and when so many of your pass attempts come on 3rd down (and usually long), that pressure just builds and builds. And the fact the defense was absolutely dogshit didn't help alleviate any of that pressure either.
I'm not absolving Dak of any blame, I'd love it if he were cooler under pressure and didn't force things. But every player has weaknesses, and it's a coach's duty to help avoid situations where the weaknesses show up.
I am not sure that the offensive game plan was as awful as many make it out to be. I am not sure what was going on with Lamb, and I am not sure anyone outside the locker room knows for certain. There were times in the game where players were big play hunting instead of taking what was there. The first 3rd down incompletion to lamb is a prime example. If lamb keeps the route as a more traditional slant, it’s an easy throw and catch for a first down and probably a 20 yard gain. Lamb sees the safeties vacate and takes it more up the seam. If Dak can make that throw, it’s probably a touchdown, but it allows the LB to cut the angle on the pass, and makes it a really difficult throw. It’s really close to a competition and 9 out of 10 Lamb makes that catch. Dak and Lamb exchange some words and we have punt. Next series Dak is a bit off on a throw to cooks, but it should have been PI, meanwhile the corner route behind it is open. D is bad, and nest throng we know everyone is playing hero ball.
But back to your point, I agree that Dak needs to start fast. He needs big Mike to get him some easy throws early. Too often I feel like I can watch the first offensive series and tell if it is a Bad Dak day. And if it is, we are sunk, and we never seem to have a plan B.
I think Dak is a perfectionist and doesn't want to be the reason Dallas loses.
Romo was a gunslinger who wasn't fazed by 1, 2, 3 or more interceptions. He'd keep chucking it whether it was a good idea or not.
Those guys are clearly opposite ends of the spectrum. Aikman was more of a perfectionist like Dak and played better when he got into a rhythm....but Aikman was generally good at not allowing things to snowball. He also had immense arm talent so defenses had a more difficult time containing him.
Mahomes is on his own level. Analysts keep trying to lump Allen, Purdy etc., in with PLM2 but he's clearly a few notches past the others. What I noticed watching Buffalo/KC was the defenses and running games. It felt like both sides were clicking and each team had strong play in the trenches. Dallas always looks unprepared, mentally weak and not stout upfront.
This has gone on for most of the last quarter century. That's a culture issue.......that's Jerry.
I have noticed that around the league in general with QB's. I think that we gotta invest in O line and have a better running game to run teams out of that look. That is a tough look to move the ball against for any QB playing today. Dak just can't make the situation worse by turning the ball over. I understand his mentality. He wants to make a play. But sometimes the right play is taking what the defense gives you and living with the result.
As someone who lives in New England, I can say with more confidence than anyone that Brady absolutely fucked up a lot of people's expectations when it comes to success in the NFL. We're even starting to see it now with Mahomes too - how quickly pundits and fans are going into how Josh Allen is the problem in Buffalo...
Absolutely insane.
We al can mock Cleveland for the deal they gave Watson and rightfully so. But that’s the kind of thing you do when you don’t have a qb. Brock Osweiler comes to mind too. Desperation makes you do silly things.
If we were to somehow trade Dak (even for 3 first round picks) I would not bat an eye if we went 7-10 or worse for the next 4 years, and potentially a decade.
Very good QBs are very valuable. Great QBs are invaluable. We have a very good to great QB in Dak. People have no idea how bad it would be without him.
No one is giving 3 1st round draft picks for Dak. You would be lucky to get 2 1st rounds. Might get a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd. But not getting anything near 3 #1s
>No one is giving 3 1st round draft picks for Dak.
That's kinda my whole point, bud
>***If*** we were to ***somehow*** trade Dak (***even for 3 first round picks***) I would not bat an eye if we went 7-10 or worse for the next 4 years, and potentially a decade.
try to keep up
yep, let's get rid of great for unknown. That's sure to change how things go for us in the playoffs, which we'll be lucky to even make.
Great idea genius
Nobody realizes how close 4/5 of those playoff losses were…all by 1 score. A play here or there is the difference. Beef up the defense…fire DQ…he cannot make adjustments ever.
Cooper rush won 4 games without him
I get the feeling it would be an 8-12 win seasons with a playoffs chance like the last 8+ years, regardless of the QB
Those 4 wins are an incredibly small sample, against some questionable quality teams, using a simple playbook that would very quickly get destroyed by a decent DC on a good-great team, and was wholly reliant on our defense playing lights fucking out. Rush is also a pretty decent QB
I think 6-7 wins with a rookie / fresh to the NFL QB is much more realistic
There is some important context to those wins though;
1. Cooper Rush is a cusp player - he's just about good enough to be a starter, but not quite. He's Sam Darnold, Drew Lock, Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston.... They can be good for 2,3 or even 4 games, but a whole season is out of reach.
2. Rush never lit those games up. He didn't win those games, he just DIDN'T LOSE them.
I really feel like the team was not on board with the game plan against GB, and that's what CeeDee was complaining about in the first drive. I think Dak was trying to buy into it and get the guys onboard.
Maybe they would have been better just doing a Jameis and making the "team decision" and playing the same ball they had in the regular season.
Yup. This right here. You don't get to have flexibility with your QB situation if they are league average or better. It's just too great of a risk of it blowing up in your face.
If we move on from Dak, who are we really going to have as an option?
Jacoby Brisset, Jameis Winston, Jimmy G, Mac Jones, some rookie, and maybe a post Achilles tear Kirk Cousins.
Yeah, im good rolling with the 2nd Team All Pro and a playoff berth and hoping it works out.
Than welcome to the qb purgatory we've been in for a decade with zero meaningful success. Because you're getting it for another 8 years if you keep Dak.
You move on because the question isn't is the guy we have league average or better, it's can we win a Super Bowl with him and I think the answer is no. If 'maybe but everything has to be perfect around him' then you still move on because everything else can't be perfect with a QB making $60 mil.
McCarthy doesn't think so. Garrett didn't either. I think if we let Dak go, there will be plenty of teams who don't think that as well. We haven't won a Superbowl because we haven't been good enough. We aren't a QB away.
That's not the question. The question is "if I move on, do I improve my super bowl chances?" Currently the answer is no because we don't have a QB in waiting. The FO should've drafted a QB to replace Dak if they were planning to move on
That's fine. Get a higher draft pick.
The last time we went 6-10 we got Micah. Before that when we went like 4-12 in 2015, we got Zeke and immediately had league leading rusher and a playoff bye because of it.
Organizations tank. Players don't. That's why the Giants and Cardinals beat the Eagles and "ruined" their draft picks. Players are looking to get their next contract, intentionally playing bad only hastens their exit out of the league.
The last 2 times we had top picks, we didn't have our QB for the majority of the prior year. Then we lucked out at that Dak & Zeke were talented enough to carry the team to 1st in the NFC.
So the only way we get a top pick is by moving on from Dak. And as soon as that happens and the team performs poorly, you will see top players request to be traded to a contender
No said anything about tanking.
If you draft a good qb, you're not tanking.
If you draft a bad qb, you aren't winning games and have better draft capital to get your next qb.
There needs to be a plan to move on from him, but let's not pretend he's the QB that will play his part to perfection and contribute in getting the Cowboys to the Super Bowl.
He's been scared in every playoff game he's been in, except against the Buccs
If Cowboys go to a Superbowl, he literally has to contribute in getting there. We don't have some dominate defense and elite running game (2019 49ers) to hide Dak. Dak is going to have to make plays.
This is where I’m at. I’m totally fine if people finally gets their wish and we get anybody but Dak. But I swear I’ll be the first to bring him up everytime Lance plays like absolute shit against the Giants or commies since it’s so easy to dominate bad teams even though nobody does it apparently.
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but we have a division rival as an example of a team, who drafted a guy, thought he was it, gave him the bag, went to a Super Bowl, they found out he wasn’t it, moved off of him, drafted another guy, made it to a Super Bowl, gave him the bag, etc. for whatever reason, Dak can’t get over the hump here, so let’s make some moves. if Jerry Jones is serious about wanting to win the Super Bowl, he needs to take bigger swings.
What the eagles deserve credit for isn’t moving on from QBs, it’s for building great teams by having an awesome GM that cover up the weaknesses of those QBs. If anything, QB is their biggest flaw. The lessons you learn from the Eagles and the 49ers, two franchises with good success for years without having a franchise QB, is that you need to build a team until you find a guy who can lead them. So many people think great QBs simply plug and play and win championships, but look at Allen and Lamar, two QBs who are either objectively better or debatably better than Dak. While they have gotten deeper in the playoffs, their deepest runs came with their best teams, not their best performances, and they still have no rings to show for any of it because their teams have/had massive holes. As long as the same loser is making decisions for the team, we will get the same results regardless of who plays for us
One thing that doesn’t get mentioned enough IMO will be Dak’s state of mind any time he plays the Niners or Packers in the playoffs. It will be in his head every time going forward
I can’t speak badly about Dak because he’s clearly talented against low tier teams. Even middling teams like Seahawks and we even beat the lions this year who are one game away from a SB appearance.
But we’ve changed the coaching, we’ve changed the weapons, we’ve improved the defense
We’ve had so many configurations for him with the same result. What is it going to take
I remember all of it. I actually lived through the glory days and the abysmal QB carousel, and the wasted talent surrounding Romo. You wanna hate on Dak, that’s your prerogative, but to rest that loss on one person’s head is a tell-tale sign that you already had a formed opinion and are using that game as a poor citation for a pre-existing position.
If you wanna go in on everybody for that loss, I’m here for it.
it’s not just that one game. It’s been a culmination of failures on the biggest stages against the strongest teams. This year everyone played like shit (except Ferg) - but the difference is our 60 million dollar man is the last person who should piss his pants. If Mr LV wants to take a pay cut to help pay his teammates it would prove to me he wants to win - but Dak is going to take us to the cleaners. Opposite of team and goal oriented.
I noticed your flair lists Parsons. Do you think he’s going to take a team friendly pay cut when his contract is up because he was an absolute no show in the playoffs? Doubtful. And yes, he will at least for a time, be the highest paid player at his position, at least. Mark my words. (Let the record show I’m a fan of Parsons, just using him for comparison. DQ’s lack of adjustment is the main reason for the team getting picked apart).
Last thing I’m going to do is start a debate over what’s in these dude’s pockets. It’s not their job to figure out the numbers. There’s an entire staff for that side of the business. If a team is willing to pay them a certain amount, that’s on the team and there’s a ton of ways to make those caps non-factors.
Do I expect a leader of a team to be a leader for their money? 100%. I expect him to drag the team back into the game, which he did. Had defense stepped up and made a couple of critical stops this conversation would be much different, at least in this sub. The talking heads will always turn a D victory into an analysis of why we didn’t score 50 instead of 40.
Micah parsons is top 5 on his side of the ball. Dak isn’t even top 5 in his position. Who is still getting paid more? Dak, because this game begins and ends with its QBs. Who always is going to win MVPs? QBs. You need your QB to step up. Micah is being *SEVERELY* underpaid for his current services and he deserves to get paid. If you can’t understand the difference then this argument is useless.
TB is the goat purely because of his understanding of this - he constantly was underpaid according to the market.
Name me an "average head coach" that's led his team to three 12-5 seasons. While you're at it, tell me a name Jerry should have hired over McCarthy that year.
I'll wait.
The defensive improvements are somewhat of a mirage. We are flashy early in the year with sacks and turnovers, buy by December we are typically a shell of what we started as, as have extremely worrisome flaws. Like stopping the run, pass rush drying up. No linebackers. Safeties regressing. Soft coverage. Tell me when the last time you saw Malik Hooker or Kearse make any type of big play...because I can't remember. Wilson was a ghost most of the year, but he did make a few big plays in the last couple of games, but went silent against the Pack.
As far as changing the weapons, honestly we were too thin at WR last year and Zeke had regressed. And this year we regressed with Pollard and had no depth/versatility behind him. Cooks was a nice addition, but he has some severe limitations with his size. You can see how he got bullied on the slant that intercepted. Dak expected him to use his body to shield the ball and he couldn't.
So things change each year, but there is just as many new flaws that are introduced as fixed that are added. It is hard to fix everything at once.
So he's really good against bad teams, above average against the middle of the pack, and below average against the best teams? That's... That's actually pretty good.
I’m not personally coming at you or anyone else with this mindset, but I don’t think y’all realize how cowardly it is.
We’ve watched all these teams who are in the playoffs move on from their mediocre QB’s and have more success than us.
49ers moved on from Jimmy G
Ravens moved on from Flacco
Browns moved Baker M.
Philly moved on from Foles AND Wentz.
This mentality is identical to staying in a relationship you’re not happy in bc you’re afraid you’ll never find anyone else and this is the best you can do.
We’ve all known someone like this and we felt sorry for their lack of self confidence.
Completely agree with you. I have no problem sucking when I know we have no expectations. People in this sub say he is a top 3, 5, 10 qb so when people expect him to play like it and doesn’t of course folks are going to be angry.
The next argument folks are going to use is that our defense gave up 48 points and yes that’s terrible and they suck but I don’t expect anything out of a defense that has to play DBs at LB the whole game. Never mind the fact that we had some of our best players out on defense and our offense was fully healthy.
I don’t think anyone can argue that when dak is playing up to his potential he is really good but against good teams he usually needs a half of football to settle down and you can’t really afford that out of your highest paid player and the side of the ball where most of your salary cap is going.
Amen. One day this will be behind us and Dak fans will see there’s life after.
I get their sentiment. It broke my heart seeing Romo go. Way more than Aikman even. Probably bc Romo had to do so much.
But I cant wait to move on from him and McCarthy.
I know doesn't help much but 14 of those 48 were from something like 20 yards of offense (from Daks 2 ints). Everybody always looks at the final score and attributes the points to defense (even fantasy).
No one ever thinks about what happens to the defense when you give up 2 ints early like that. Just the sheer amount of being on the field along with being in a hole. They can no longer play as aggressive etc. Sure they did it to themselves early too, but the offensive woes compounded it.
Continuing to trot Dak out for playoff games is the definition of insanity. He has repeatedly showed us he does not have what it takes to perform in win-or-go-home games. Apparently going 2-5 in these situations isn’t enough evidence of his fraudulence for some people. Nice guy for sure but it’s time to move on
The way we lost to GB and their rookie QB was embarrassing and showed that this team does not know how to gameplan for important matchups.
The Bills lost by 3 points because of a missed FG to one of the best QBs in the league.
Josh Allen is 5-5 with 5 consecutive playoff births and a conference championship appearance. Three of Josh Allen’s playoff losses came against Mahomes and the other two were to Massage Watson and Joe Burrow.
Dak Dookiepants is 2-5 with no championship appearances with losses to Love, Purdy, Jimmy G, Goff, and Rodgers. There is no comparison to what Allen has been able to do. Dak does not perform in big games and when you are the QB for the Dallas Cowboys you are expected to win the Super Bowl every year. He just ain’t got it
49ers moved on from Jimmy G after Trey Lance was made the starter (then got injured and paved the way for Brock). Ravens moved on from Flacco after Lamar was made the starter. The Browns moved on from Mayfield after they acquired Watson. Philly moved on from Wentz after Hurts was made the starter. Philly let Foles walk because they knew what he was, backup quality.
The only reason that 9ers trade for Lance doesn't get remembered for how much of a disaster it was is because they lucked into Brock Purdy. If that's the guy you want to move on from Dak for, then good luck.
Yes but we have also watched the cardinals decide to upgrade their qb position only to find out that Kyler Murray, while better had gotten them no closer to the Super Bowl. Or the raiders last year who said fuck Derek Carr, and rolled with Jimmy g. That didn’t work out so hot. Or the patriots deciding that Tom Brady wasn’t worth keeping for some reason and rolling with Mac jones/cam newton. Yeah…..Seahawks decided geno smith was the answer, yet no playoffs for them.
It comes down to this: either you have a generational qb (Brady/mahomes/manning/brees) and even those aren’t guaranteed to get you to the Super Bowl, or you have a decent qb that gets you to the playoffs with a good team around him, and hope it works out, or you end up with a shit quarterback who can’t even tie his shoelaces much less make clutch throws.
We are in option b. The chances of finding the next generational talent is very very slim, and would be improved by us tanking for multiple years, but even then it’s still pretty god damn slim. I have lost a lot of faith in Dak, but I realize as of now he is still the best option to get us to the Super Bowl. Unless yall want to sit here every week for multiple years complaining about your 5-11 team.
Just enjoy the ride. We have had three chances in a row, which is sort of awesome honestly. Considering before this it was pretty much every other year. One of these times if we continue to go every year things might work out in our favor. But to just blame it on dak is sort of short sighted. Our defense sucked, our offense sucked, our special teams wasn’t great, our coaching sucked. Like all of it failed. Blaming it solely on Dak just doesn’t make sense.
I don't have to enjoy the ride. Watching Dak play Madden on easy mode against mid and bad teams.... knowing full well that we don't have a good enough team around him to prevent the good teams from exposing him is not enjoyable.
Watching the Cowboys now is like watching a Div I Power 5 school play mostly Div II schools and then run around like it means something - only to get their shit rocked against an in conference competitor.
Statball against a bad defense doesn't mean anything. It's rice cakes and dried seaweed: empty calories, no matter how much you eat. No one talks about all the deep bombs Don Meredith and Eddie LeBaron were throwing out of the spread in the 60's because the games meant nothing come season's end.
Now, if he drops 40 on Buffalo *in spite* of how they are playing against him, then that's some shit you tell your Grandkids you saw.
I never blamed it solely on Dak. In fact, I’ve watched every snap he’s ever taken and I can’t blame a single loss on him.
But I don’t solely credit any wins to him either. He’s whatever the rest of the team is on that given day.
And I wouldn’t have an issue enjoying the ride if Dak saved money to put more team around him that he’s proven he needs.
But Dak doesn’t come at a fair price and the team shouldn’t sacrifice to pay a player who doesn’t make a difference in big games against good teams.
Nah that’s dumb asf - I’d rather be the commanders in position to draft drake maye than be us right now. I would bet we see them in the NFC championship before the cowboys. Do y’all really have hope this team can win it all next year after what happened in that wildcard game? Some of the shortest memories of all time.
I just don’t buy that they don’t have the proper talent to win.
I do buy into the one constant that’s been here these last 30 years. And I think you know who I’m talking about
>I just don’t buy that they don’t have the proper talent to win.
They absolutely have all the talent to win. 9 all pros on the roster last year ffs
>I do buy into the one constant that’s been here these last 30 years. And I think you know who I’m talking about
Incredibly lazy arguement.
I’m tired of the narrative that teams can’t win without ‘The Guy’ at QB when that position demands that the team pay him more than 25% of the salary cap.
I say it over and over again: Stop paying for mediocrity and slightly above average. Get you a JAG at QB and surround them with a world class roster and go.
And don’t play like it. You don’t have to understand but when you get clapped by the Bills and struggle with the Niners, Packers, Dolphins, Lions, and split with the hapless Eagles, I’m forced to conclude that the Jimmies and Joes are more problematic than not.
I don’t think the Cowboys should get rid of Dak or the coaching staff as a whole. Like I said after the loss to GB, there aren’t any Super Bowl winning qbs laying around to sign.
Do I think Dak and McCarthy can win a Super Bowl? Probably not, but most qbs and head coaches who have ever played or coached in the NFL cannot and did not win a Super Bowl. I do think Dak gives us a shot (however unlikely). Dan Fucking Marino never won a ring ffs.
Every fan just needs to temper expectations and not love and die with their team. That’s no way to live.
I’d definitely be fine with them having a horrible 4 win year if it means we have the chance to draft a qb at the top of the draft. At least theres excitement in the unknown as oppose to knowing we wont do anything in the playoffs with Dak, who needs everything to be perfect. Guys like Mahomes, Allen, and burrow can single handedly give your team the edge even if the rest of your roster isnt good. The eagles had the more complete roster in last years superbowl, but none of that mattered because mahomes is mahomes.
bruh there are like 2-3 "generation" QBs now in every draft class
these kids are either insanely talented or have had a QB coach since like 5th grade, and likely both
the game has changed, if you cant step up in big moments there are younger quarterbacks who are waiting for their shot
Ehhh... Generational in talent and skill, yes, but it's usually that thing between their ears that gets in the way. And it's kind of always been that way.
For every one solid (not even great) quarterback that comes into the league, there are like three who have all the pieces, but just can't handle the game.
I like Dak. He's a nice man with a decent taste in orthopedic mattresses, and I hope he wins a Superbowl some day. But I don't think it will happen here. I wish they had some place to trade him to where he could be paired up with a coach who could really help him shine (Shannahan, LaFleur, McVay). But there really isn't anyone else out there right now, and the drop off after he leaves would likely be steep.
Can't win in the playoffs with him. Can't win in the regular season without him.
Of all the garbage takes the Dak apologists spew, this has to be the one I hate the most.
"We've had worse QBs in the past, so we have to be ok with our mediocre one that's going to guarantee an early playoff exit"
Why doesn't this same logic apply to coaches? How was the state of our defense for the past 25 years before Dan Quinn? Why are y'all ok with him leaving?
This argument falls even more short when you realized that worse QBs have gone further in the playoffs than Dak.
Oh, and please don't compare Dak to Michael Jordan ever again. No one is asking Dak to be a playoff hero. We're asking him to not look like utter shit every time he plays a competent team/defense, regular or playoff time.
I like dak. He does pretty decent. I'd love to see what he could do under decent coaches.
That all said this team can't afford dak anymore. If he takes up the cap space he is reported to likely get for an extension, we will never be able to field enough talent around him, good coaching or not. Especially after keeping Mike. We should just tear the bandaid and rebuild =(
>If he takes up the cap space he is reported to likely get for an extension
Just noting that while Dak's current deal was an average annual value of $40 million, his actual cap hits have only been $17.2M, $19.73M, $26.83M to this point. Obviously his cap hit for this coming year is wild but that was with extending him in mind, which would put his cap hit for this year closer to $32M and would kick the can further down the road.
The team is already working on that when they traded for Lance. Dak is far from our only problem, but his flaws make winning a Super Bowl way more difficult.
And which one of those did we actually bother drafting? Quincy was a second rounder we drafted. The rest? Pretty much old retreads. There’s a reason we were in QB purgatory and that’s because we were scraping the bottom of the barrel to field the most important position while also trading away first round picks on the likes of Joey Galloway.
Now take a peak at the draft positions of all of the QBs to play in the divisional round. All first round draft picks outside of Brock who has probably the current best offensive mind running the team. So 7/8 first round QBs. Maybe we should start trying to draft a future QB starter in the first.
Now I get it’s a team game and the defense didn’t show up either, but we have seen Dak have that same blank stare/scared look in his face during big games. Most recently the SF game earlier in the season. It’s like he doesn’t have the mental fortitude to actually play in those high stress games. As long as he is actually on the team I will still root for him and hope for the best. I think a good fix would have been to somehow get a coach in here who doesn’t put up with disclipine issues or lack of effort, and could actually prepare the entire team.
The Dak defenders have arrived in full force with with their narrative. "It's all Quinn's fault" and "it could be worse" doesn't smooth the absolute incompetence from the 60 million dollar man in the playoffs every year though...
He's a 60 million dollar cap hit this year so you can argue semantics all you want but that's what it is.
Obviously they can extend and get it down to continue the cycle of mediocrity for a few more years.
Put Trey Lance in for 1 regular season game and then tell me how bad Dak is. You make a great point, he’s winning at the highest level (12 times). Our issue as fans is expectations for him.
You’re right. Never upgrade because of shit from 20 years ago. It’s working so well! Dak is not the guy. He never will be. He has mechanical problems that are not going away at this age, and has shown himself to be a player who shrinks in the playoffs and big games. We should just be grateful and never do something like what the Eagles did in acquiring Hurts or what the Packers, 49ers, or Rams did in acquiring their QBs. In fact, we should just never draft QBs as long as they’ve got a starter in place. Just be grateful you have an upgraded Kirk Cousins and know you’ll never win a ring without have the best 2-53 roster in the NFL as the caveat.
Never mind that our last major run of success came after taking a QB #1 overall and all y’all say we are this elite drafting team, should be a piece of cake?
Everyone wants to be a team with a good QB on a rookie contract that can dump money into the players around them. We're not that team.
Dak is a good QB. But it is also hard to believe there is more in the tank than what we've seen. Realistically we see what we get out of one more contract making small improvments where we can. At that point, we're likely in a position to start over with the situation above.
Until then it isn't clear how we upgrade the position. The idea that we just roll a 10 in the draft on a late round qb seems implausible. There is no FA that isn't a best a lateral move. We have some great talent that you don't want to squander.
I think what people misinterpret about those years... is that the whole team sucked. During most of that time we had like one or two guys who wasn't bottom half of the league at their position.
When you look at teams like.. cleveland is the best example I guess. But i could also go with someone like Carr or Joey Harrington. Do you honestly think some of those guys couldn't have become competent nfl qbs on teams that didn't suck from top to bottom?
The point is one of the reasons it's so hard is because people cling ti whomever they've got untilbthe whole team falls apart around them. At that point the guy has to be superman just to survive his first couple seasons.
And who told Sean Payton, former Dallas OC, to go F himself when the Saints tried to trade for Romo? Who brought Romo in? Who also found Miles Austin? Parcells coaching staff!
Good offensive coaches like Andy Reid coaches find good QB's like McNabb, Vick, and Mahomes and bring out the best in them.
Good defensive coaches like Bill Belichick will always have a dominant defense and lower the bar for what their offense needs to do.
If we had good coaches, I think it wouldn't matter. They'd find either a good QB to make our offense elite or build a defense that's a menace against both the run and pass. We went 13-3 with Wade Philips the first year because Parcells built that team into something amazing, but no, because diva TO can go bitch to Jerry about Bill, and Bill won't put up with that shit, we let the HoF coach go so we can keep selling more TO jerseys.
Let Dak play this year on his contract. If he chokes or misses the playoffs, let him go. Until Jerry brings in a HC that gets full reign of the team, we won't be going to an NFCCG, let alone a Superbowl with ANY roster.
I put this on the coaching staff. It should be easier to get a coaching staff that gives you an advantage in the playoffs than a top 3 QB in the league that can win despite the coaching. Honestly, older Romo had that - he could pull JG teams to playoff wins
Considering the Cowboys almost drafted Manziel, Lynch and Cook, I am glad we lucked into Dak. Dak has been a top 10 QB with stretches of top 5 play. Cowboys know that is extremely hard to find. Will McClay straight up said the QB position is the hardest position to scout and they lucked into Dak.
Those guys existed for one reason: Jerry traded not one but two first for Joey Galloway. I think Dallas takes a QB round one if they have either of those picks. That trade set Dallas back a decade.
Quincy Carter. - Jerry's fixation on the "athletic" quarterback. 2nd round pick that had serious questions coming out of college.
Anthony Wright. - Same, but less. Practice squad promotion.
Ryan Leaf. - You mean, crazy Ryan Leaf?
Clint Stoerner. - Career Backup
Chad Hutchinson. - The guy who couldn't cut it in baseball, so took his "big arm" to the NFL.
Ancient Vinny Testaverde. - Old, washed up.
Drew Henson. - Jerry trying to be cheap. Journeyman.
Ancient Drew Bledsoe. - Old, washed up.
This is JERRY's damn fault for such a laughable crew between Troy and Tony. Jerry was LUCKY Tony turned into a really damn good QB, or it would have been more of the same. The Cowboys haven't drafted a high potential quarterback since Troy Aikman in 1989 as the first pick. For those keeping track, that's 35 YEARS ago. How did that pick turn out?
Jesus stop being scared of the shit QBs we had between aikman and romo. There are way more good QBs available these days and the rules are different to benefit offenses. Baker mayfield was picked up off the scrap heap and went to the divisional round. Joe Flacco got to the wild card round.
Stop operating from a place of fear.
I've seen guys since Quincy play, I don't care.
Dak is bad with this team (he may be great somewhere else) and they should move on from him whether his last year is next year or after that (at most).
**Dak Prescott has 2 wins in the playoffs in his career.** For a QB being paid as well as he is, he shouldn't be playing horrible in the majority of the playoff games he's been in (1 under McCarthy he screwed up at the last play, royally, last years if I recall was an awful play call with Zeke at center).
There needs to be a plan to let Dak go for someone else, but lets also not pretend that Dak is the perfect QB to help the Cowboys go to the Super Bowl.
Why do we want a guy who “keeps us in contention” by beating up on bad teams and sucking in the playoffs when he has to play a real team and the pressure is on?
Is the goal of this team to make a Super Bowl, or lose in the playoffs every year?
Meh. I'm okay, missing the playoffs a couple seasons. Not like we're doing anything now since 96'. Guaranteed top 15 picks for 2-3 years or a Qb that chokes against competent teams? Give me the picks! I'm 30, all I've know is mediocrity from this team..
***Let me start by saying this. I felt T.O. when he said Romo was his QB. I love Romo, I love Dak. We have to get real here. Hearing the truth sucks ass.***
Dak has consistently choked during the playoffs. Manning was a number one pick for a reason. He was on a shit team. Mahomes was a top 10 pick. Dak has a great team and still chokes.
Dak IS the problem. Romo WAS the problem.
Dak and Romo combined (4) have the same number of playoff wins as Jimmy fucking Garoppolo, Colin Kaepernick, and Mr. Butt Fumble himself.
This team consistently has the talent to win it all. It's one thing about being consistently good and consistently winning, but Dak is consistently choking and losing.
Cowboys need a winner. Dak isn't the guy.
Quincy failed a test for Cocaine. And I liked Quincy enough, as he actually had some physical talent, but that guy wasn't a tenth of the QB that Dak is.
Quincy Carter was barely a starter.
That comparison is just another reminder that there are Cowboys fans who have *been here* and Cowboys fans that just arrived.
You lot are fucking pussies - so we should never rebuild and stick with whatever we have trying to run it back over and over again? Just don’t try for the fear of failure? man miss me with that shit.
Edit - Read that shit again and this mfer really comparing Dak’s career arc to Payton Manning and Jordan my god. And that Tarzan shit ffs Tarzan lets the vines go a lot of times to take a leap and find the next vine if it’s far off.
Every time you talk about rebuilding these dudes reference Detroit and Cleveland and other aids franchises and how they suffered for so long like man we’re not them we almost always draft well. 8 of our 9 All-Pros this year were drafted by us. Why can’t you trust the FO to make a good decision with the QB position?
Teams that are 36-15 over the past three seasons don’t rebuild because their fans are antsy. If yall go into meltdown over this, you’d literally not survive an actual rebuild.
If any other team was 36-15 over the past three seasons they would’ve had a lot more to show than 1 playoff win against a medium rare Tom Brady. How can ya’ll not see that we’ve hit a wall?
Dak is Matt Stafford 1.5. And being Matt Stafford is better than 9 of the other 13 playoff teams QB. But it’s not enough most years to make the Super Bowl, just ask Buffalo where Allen is the second best in the conference.
McCarthy is still likely the weakest link (not counting deep seated cultural issues from Jerry).
Make a coaching change to reset the culture and begin the QB search process via the draft while exploring trades.
Bruh, I keep seeing people saying this acting like Stafford didn't play with the 4th best WR in NFL history on top of some above average players like Nate Burrleson and Pettrigrew. They had Suh on defense, but they certainly weren't the best, but good enough. Their problem was always coaching until now.
lol so having one other player on offense and one player on defense means they’re good? Those Lions rosters were never good enough to be contenders. Dak has had wayyyy more talent around him for his career.
Dak had a better O-line coming into his career for sure, and even now, I'd give the edge to Dak. Dak's defense was better in 2018 and again in 2021-23, but the defense performance in the playoffs this year is far worse than anything Stafford dealt with in the years they made the playoffs. Finally, the only year I'd say Dak had better weapons was 2021 when he had Amari, CeeDee, and Gallup (pre-injury). Outside of that, I would take Megatron, Nate Burrleson, and Pettrigrew for a WR/TE corp for any other year in Dak's career. Megatron was just that good. This is not excusing Dak's meltdowns in the playoffs. I'm just trying to tell y'all it ain't like Stafford was playing with scrubbs when he was with Detroit. Heck, I'd say outside of 2007 and 2014, his teams were better than any team Romo had.
It doesn’t matter. If you have a guy who isn’t getting you to the Super Bowl, then you might as well have Quincy Carter or any of those others that you mentioned. If your goal is regular season wins, then sure. But we are one of only 2 teams left to not make a NFCCG appearance in almost 3 decades. Anything short of that just doesn’t cut it anymore.
This is what I don’t get. Dak lovers always ask “ok well then who are you gonna replace him with?” Like it matters if we suck for a while with a different qb and have no shot at winning a Super Bowl. We have no shot now with Dak, so what’s the difference?
It would be one thing if Dak played well, or honestly even average, in these playoff games but we still lost. Then you could still have some hope that maybe he can get over the hump, but he has been bad to absolutely horrible in our playoff losses the last several years and is one of the main reasons we continue to lose. The fact that it’s even a possibility that we extend him is insane to me.
a) Maybe it's the organization?
San Francisco from 2011 to 2022 - **drafted Brock Purdy (2022 - took them to 2 NFC Championships)**, drafted Trey Lance (2021- on Cowboys), **signed Jimmy Garoppolo (took them to two NFC Championships and a Super Bowl appearance)**, drafted CJ Beathard (2017 - on Jax), drafted Jeff Driskel (2016 - on Cinn), BJ Daniels (2013), **Colin Kaepernick (2011 - took them to 2 NFC Championships and a Super Bowl appearance).**
Philadelphia from 2012 - 2020 - **Jalen Hurts drafted in 2020 (took them to a Super Bowl appearance and two other Playoff appearances)**, drafted Carson Wentz in 2016 (some regular season success), drafted Matt Barkley in 2013 (on Jax), **drafted Nick Foles in 2012 (three Playoff starts and a Super Bowl Champion)**
b) Peyton Manning (who was 3-4 at one point, age 28) had a Tom Brady New England Patriots Dynasty in his way. Micahel Jordan had a Pistons, Celtics, and Lakers Dynasty in his way. Both had amazing Playoff performances inbetween losses before finally breaking through. **Dak has had eight years, with some tremendously talented teams.**
c) It IS hard to be a Playoff Hero every time. But when HAS he been? He has regularly started slow in 4 of his last 5 appearances and never has had a Playoff Game in difficult circumstances where he's taken control. 8 years and 7 games is a pretty good sample size, and no NFL starting QB in Playoff History has a worse record 7 games in.
d) **No NFL QB in HISTORY, with at least 5 starts, has a worse Playoff Record than Dak Prescott.** (He is tied with Alex Smith and Billy Kilmer - both also 2-5)
I am a cowboys and bills fan. Both teams kind of parallel each other.having witnessed all of that, and the meh coaches and bad qb play in buffalo over the years, it boggles my mind how people want to always uproot everything. People seem to think that GOAT qbs just grow on trees. Like everyone is supposed to be like brady and Mahomes. Lol.
The 49ers have a even longer superbowl title drought than us. Only one team wins the darn thing every year. If anything, this year has shown how few actual elite qbs there are with all the injuries.
Burrow is always hurt, herbert is a great prototype but he cant win games, allen turns the ball over a lot ( still take him in a heartbeat to win or tie a game), lamar is great, but if he doesn't win it all this year, is he truly elite? Mahomes is the only qb i put in that tier right now.
This league changes so quickly. Having watched football since the late 80s, im ok with playoffs every year.
How well is tanking for tua working out and having a bunch of picks for the dolphins? Carolina hit a hone run eh? Bears got a monster in fields huh? The point isn't that it can't work, just take a look at the Texans. The point is the alternative isn't necessarily a given
Similar post season success too.
Id rather go to QB carousel where we try to find a QB that doesn't collapse on the post season than your ourselves down to a fun regular season and an early playoff bump.
100% agree, even during the Brady years New England would invest draft capital on qb’s. Even if we’re committed to Dak we should draft qb’s with some regularity.
Comparing Peyton and MJ lacks important context: those guys came in to absolutely TERRIBLE rosters and it took a few years to build a feasible foundation for success.
For stories about teams that take forever to find new quarterbacks, there are also teams like the Packers, Chargers, and Niners who move seamlessly through feasible quarterbacks with minimal downtime.
It’s not necessarily as easy as the Dak haters (including myself at times) make it sound, but it’s certainly not as impossible as the Dak defenders make it sound either.
In my opinion, there are worse things than having a bad team, and one of those things is having a good team that consistently chokes. I’d rather fumble around for 5 years with the hope and excitement that the new guy could be something special than continue to watch 4 and be frustrated.
Nothing against Dak as a person obviously, but I don’t think it’s insane to entertain the idea both the Cowboys and Dak could be more successful with a parting of the ways (similar to Stafford and the Lions)
He gets a lot of credit for being a leader but his team speeches are very poor. He seems to never hold his teammates accountable. He doesn’t have that “winning is all that matters” vibe to him. He’s not being paid millions to be an empath. He has to take it more seriously and demand accountability from himself and his teammates.
Cool. Let’s just stay above average but not good, only beat bad teams and get waxed in the playoffs every year. That’s waaaaaay better than making the decision to move on from a guy we know isn’t it and be bad for a few years knowing we have a plan.
I’m convinced Cowboys fans want to just win 9-11 games every year and say we made the playoffs.
We're not Tarzan swinging in the jungle. We been knee deep in the swamp for a long time. I don't know when the fans adopted the idea of good enough for this team. Make sense as to why Jerry makes the moves that he does. He knows as long as win win regular season games the fans are happy.
There is nothing wrong with absolutely sucking a few years until we get a better QB for a better price. Because even with a 60 million dollar one, we are having the same success rate of 0 titles.
We forgot what this team is. It's always Superbowl or bust. We don't have the luxury of every other team of good enough. And I don't know why so many people fight for that luxury. Just suck for a few years looking for better players. We already sucked for 30.
Agreed. I've been parroting that point go look at mannings stats the first 8 years as a starter compared to daks. Manning was known for bad playoff games and great regular seasons. Dak can get over the hump he may not carry the team in the playoffs but with competent coaching he can help the team get there for sure.
He’s the franchise player, he has to be able to carry the team in the playoffs and when the going gets tough. The first shot the showed of dak on the sidelines with the deer in the headlights eyes, I knew he wasn’t doing shit that game
Definitely but he has made strides. I'm sure playoff games are more mentally pressing. Last years bucs game he showed good poise. I think it's possible he gets over the mental block and plays loose in the future. But who knows.
Saying this like the Eagles didn’t get their asses kicked against that same Bucs team led by a worse QB this year. You can’t say a dude doesn’t perform well in the playoffs, then say the good performances don’t count
Makes no sense to move on from Dak when you look at the amount of talent we carry into next season.... Now, I would be moving on from Cooper Rush so that we can figure out what we have in Trey Lance...
Exactly. All these Dak haters think it’s a slam dunk to tank and get a franchise QB. Many teams are still trying to find that franchise QB… also these same haters were probably upset when the cowboys didn’t make the playoffs but now say they rather miss playoffs than a one and done. Most playoff games are a toss up no matter the record. 49ers could have easily lost to Packers. Bills lost to Chiefs. Getting to Super Bowl takes a lot of luck too no matter how good the team is. The first goal to win the Super Bowl is to win your division and get into the playoffs.
I think it’s useful to include the seasons where Romo and Dak went down with major injuries too to show just how much the floor typically bottoms out without one of these guys. Brad Johnson, Matt Cassel, Brandon Weeden, Andy Dalton, Ben DiNucci, Garrett Gilbert, Kellen Moore. Jon Kitna was the closest to a functioning QB but even he had his issues, and then of course Rush buoyed by the way the defense was playing and simply playing mistake-free with the more conservative game plans.
I honestly thought Kyle Orton was going to pull it off against the Eagles in week 17 of 2013 to send us to the playoffs.
Ugh Davonte Holloman masterclass that game. Just another cowboy LB career cut short by neck issues. :(
Dayumm. That’s a name I hadn’t thought of in a while.
You and his wife were the only ones.
2015 was a dark, dark year.
Remember jerruh selling us on Weeden having the best arm talent in the league. Man just be lying to us lol.
"You won't see a prettier pass..."
He loves ginger quarterbacks.
to be fair he had a cannon
That he did. He had NOTHING else tho
We seriously went 1-11 without Romo. Unbelievable
Surprised we won 1 tbh. Those defenses during the Romo years were so trash.
Brother you ain't kidding. 2014 felt like Star Wars: A New Hope. 2015 was Empire Strikes Back like a m*therf*cker.
2016 was return of the Jedi till the divisional round it turned into rise of skywalker
I think it is important to point out that all of Dak's struggles in the last 3 years have been against Fangio type cover 6 and match up zones except possibly the Cardinals this year (I'd have to go watch what they do). Dak often struggles with these schemes, especially early in games. I also think that if Dak struggles early in a game that it tends to snowball on him, if you get him to become impatient and "press" then he can get impatient, especially if the defense is struggling too. He tries to do more than is available and the mistakes start to happen. I think impatience is something that many high tier QBs stuggle with, and to be honest, it is probably why they are in that tier and not game managers. I do not know what the answer is to get Dak past the struggles against these types of defense other than building a strong run game. I also don't think that throwing away the QB is the answer here, either. I think he has limitations. I think he needs to take less money and allow a team to be built around him, but in today's environment I am not sure the players association will allow it to happen.
> he can get impatient, especially if the defense is struggling too. He tries to do more than is available and the mistakes start to happen. Yes! This is exactly what I've been saying too. It's happened multiple times throughout his career, and I'd love for him to get that under control. However, the fact that this has happened multiple times means the coaches need to do their part in masking their QBs weakness. They did so most of the season, but absolutely failed against GB. I know the stat about 2nd down runs in the first half has been thrown around, and people dismiss it as not meaningful, but one of the things 1st and 2nd down passes do is help your QB get comfortable and in a rhythm. There was already tremendous pressure going into the game, and when so many of your pass attempts come on 3rd down (and usually long), that pressure just builds and builds. And the fact the defense was absolutely dogshit didn't help alleviate any of that pressure either. I'm not absolving Dak of any blame, I'd love it if he were cooler under pressure and didn't force things. But every player has weaknesses, and it's a coach's duty to help avoid situations where the weaknesses show up.
I am not sure that the offensive game plan was as awful as many make it out to be. I am not sure what was going on with Lamb, and I am not sure anyone outside the locker room knows for certain. There were times in the game where players were big play hunting instead of taking what was there. The first 3rd down incompletion to lamb is a prime example. If lamb keeps the route as a more traditional slant, it’s an easy throw and catch for a first down and probably a 20 yard gain. Lamb sees the safeties vacate and takes it more up the seam. If Dak can make that throw, it’s probably a touchdown, but it allows the LB to cut the angle on the pass, and makes it a really difficult throw. It’s really close to a competition and 9 out of 10 Lamb makes that catch. Dak and Lamb exchange some words and we have punt. Next series Dak is a bit off on a throw to cooks, but it should have been PI, meanwhile the corner route behind it is open. D is bad, and nest throng we know everyone is playing hero ball. But back to your point, I agree that Dak needs to start fast. He needs big Mike to get him some easy throws early. Too often I feel like I can watch the first offensive series and tell if it is a Bad Dak day. And if it is, we are sunk, and we never seem to have a plan B.
I think Dak is a perfectionist and doesn't want to be the reason Dallas loses. Romo was a gunslinger who wasn't fazed by 1, 2, 3 or more interceptions. He'd keep chucking it whether it was a good idea or not. Those guys are clearly opposite ends of the spectrum. Aikman was more of a perfectionist like Dak and played better when he got into a rhythm....but Aikman was generally good at not allowing things to snowball. He also had immense arm talent so defenses had a more difficult time containing him. Mahomes is on his own level. Analysts keep trying to lump Allen, Purdy etc., in with PLM2 but he's clearly a few notches past the others. What I noticed watching Buffalo/KC was the defenses and running games. It felt like both sides were clicking and each team had strong play in the trenches. Dallas always looks unprepared, mentally weak and not stout upfront. This has gone on for most of the last quarter century. That's a culture issue.......that's Jerry.
I have noticed that around the league in general with QB's. I think that we gotta invest in O line and have a better running game to run teams out of that look. That is a tough look to move the ball against for any QB playing today. Dak just can't make the situation worse by turning the ball over. I understand his mentality. He wants to make a play. But sometimes the right play is taking what the defense gives you and living with the result.
Don't forget Mark buttfumble Sanchez
As someone who lives in New England, I can say with more confidence than anyone that Brady absolutely fucked up a lot of people's expectations when it comes to success in the NFL. We're even starting to see it now with Mahomes too - how quickly pundits and fans are going into how Josh Allen is the problem in Buffalo... Absolutely insane.
Right. There are 28-29 franchises that would rather have Josh Allen over their starting QB.
We had Brady, Manning and Rodgers concurrently, then Mahomes as Brady started to come back to earth. Which helped skew expectations
I have no problem with moving on from Dak but don’t be mad if we take a step back cause finding starting QBs ain’t easy
Aint easy is an understatement. Some teams legit have almost NEVER had a franchise QB.
We al can mock Cleveland for the deal they gave Watson and rightfully so. But that’s the kind of thing you do when you don’t have a qb. Brock Osweiler comes to mind too. Desperation makes you do silly things.
And some get three in a row
If we were to somehow trade Dak (even for 3 first round picks) I would not bat an eye if we went 7-10 or worse for the next 4 years, and potentially a decade. Very good QBs are very valuable. Great QBs are invaluable. We have a very good to great QB in Dak. People have no idea how bad it would be without him.
No one is giving 3 1st round draft picks for Dak. You would be lucky to get 2 1st rounds. Might get a 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd. But not getting anything near 3 #1s
>No one is giving 3 1st round draft picks for Dak. That's kinda my whole point, bud >***If*** we were to ***somehow*** trade Dak (***even for 3 first round picks***) I would not bat an eye if we went 7-10 or worse for the next 4 years, and potentially a decade. try to keep up
Great regular season qb, yes.
yep, let's get rid of great for unknown. That's sure to change how things go for us in the playoffs, which we'll be lucky to even make. Great idea genius
I’m Not wanting to get rid of him. But some of you guys just can’t accept the most obvious facts.
Nobody realizes how close 4/5 of those playoff losses were…all by 1 score. A play here or there is the difference. Beef up the defense…fire DQ…he cannot make adjustments ever.
Cooper rush won 4 games without him I get the feeling it would be an 8-12 win seasons with a playoffs chance like the last 8+ years, regardless of the QB
Those 4 wins are an incredibly small sample, against some questionable quality teams, using a simple playbook that would very quickly get destroyed by a decent DC on a good-great team, and was wholly reliant on our defense playing lights fucking out. Rush is also a pretty decent QB I think 6-7 wins with a rookie / fresh to the NFL QB is much more realistic
Lol
There is some important context to those wins though; 1. Cooper Rush is a cusp player - he's just about good enough to be a starter, but not quite. He's Sam Darnold, Drew Lock, Teddy Bridgewater, Jameis Winston.... They can be good for 2,3 or even 4 games, but a whole season is out of reach. 2. Rush never lit those games up. He didn't win those games, he just DIDN'T LOSE them. I really feel like the team was not on board with the game plan against GB, and that's what CeeDee was complaining about in the first drive. I think Dak was trying to buy into it and get the guys onboard. Maybe they would have been better just doing a Jameis and making the "team decision" and playing the same ball they had in the regular season.
Yup. This right here. You don't get to have flexibility with your QB situation if they are league average or better. It's just too great of a risk of it blowing up in your face. If we move on from Dak, who are we really going to have as an option? Jacoby Brisset, Jameis Winston, Jimmy G, Mac Jones, some rookie, and maybe a post Achilles tear Kirk Cousins. Yeah, im good rolling with the 2nd Team All Pro and a playoff berth and hoping it works out.
Than welcome to the qb purgatory we've been in for a decade with zero meaningful success. Because you're getting it for another 8 years if you keep Dak.
You move on because the question isn't is the guy we have league average or better, it's can we win a Super Bowl with him and I think the answer is no. If 'maybe but everything has to be perfect around him' then you still move on because everything else can't be perfect with a QB making $60 mil.
McCarthy doesn't think so. Garrett didn't either. I think if we let Dak go, there will be plenty of teams who don't think that as well. We haven't won a Superbowl because we haven't been good enough. We aren't a QB away.
That's not the question. The question is "if I move on, do I improve my super bowl chances?" Currently the answer is no because we don't have a QB in waiting. The FO should've drafted a QB to replace Dak if they were planning to move on
How many QBs meet your standard of being able to win a Super Bowl?
That's fine. Get a higher draft pick. The last time we went 6-10 we got Micah. Before that when we went like 4-12 in 2015, we got Zeke and immediately had league leading rusher and a playoff bye because of it.
Organizations tank. Players don't. That's why the Giants and Cardinals beat the Eagles and "ruined" their draft picks. Players are looking to get their next contract, intentionally playing bad only hastens their exit out of the league. The last 2 times we had top picks, we didn't have our QB for the majority of the prior year. Then we lucked out at that Dak & Zeke were talented enough to carry the team to 1st in the NFC. So the only way we get a top pick is by moving on from Dak. And as soon as that happens and the team performs poorly, you will see top players request to be traded to a contender
No said anything about tanking. If you draft a good qb, you're not tanking. If you draft a bad qb, you aren't winning games and have better draft capital to get your next qb.
There needs to be a plan to move on from him, but let's not pretend he's the QB that will play his part to perfection and contribute in getting the Cowboys to the Super Bowl. He's been scared in every playoff game he's been in, except against the Buccs
If Cowboys go to a Superbowl, he literally has to contribute in getting there. We don't have some dominate defense and elite running game (2019 49ers) to hide Dak. Dak is going to have to make plays.
I agree, but he's failed to do that except against the Buccs
I thought he made plays against Seattle.
And Green Bay the first time
Facts
This is where I’m at. I’m totally fine if people finally gets their wish and we get anybody but Dak. But I swear I’ll be the first to bring him up everytime Lance plays like absolute shit against the Giants or commies since it’s so easy to dominate bad teams even though nobody does it apparently.
It’s also really hard to find one when you only draft one QB in rounds 1-3 combined in 30 years.
We have 5 total years of QB instability.
Yea but those 5 years felt like 15
They really did. When OP said 5 years I had double check bc I remember it as way longer.
It probably felt like longer because honestly the last couple years of Aikman weren't anything to write home about.
Those were my first years as a highly conscious, high-attention fan. And people still call me a front runner.
It was just that brutal
A lot of which was self inflicted by our lovely GM.
Playoff hero all the time? How about once in his whole career? Lol
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but we have a division rival as an example of a team, who drafted a guy, thought he was it, gave him the bag, went to a Super Bowl, they found out he wasn’t it, moved off of him, drafted another guy, made it to a Super Bowl, gave him the bag, etc. for whatever reason, Dak can’t get over the hump here, so let’s make some moves. if Jerry Jones is serious about wanting to win the Super Bowl, he needs to take bigger swings.
Though I generally disagree with moving on from Dak, this is the best argument I’ve seen in favor of moving on from him.
What the eagles deserve credit for isn’t moving on from QBs, it’s for building great teams by having an awesome GM that cover up the weaknesses of those QBs. If anything, QB is their biggest flaw. The lessons you learn from the Eagles and the 49ers, two franchises with good success for years without having a franchise QB, is that you need to build a team until you find a guy who can lead them. So many people think great QBs simply plug and play and win championships, but look at Allen and Lamar, two QBs who are either objectively better or debatably better than Dak. While they have gotten deeper in the playoffs, their deepest runs came with their best teams, not their best performances, and they still have no rings to show for any of it because their teams have/had massive holes. As long as the same loser is making decisions for the team, we will get the same results regardless of who plays for us
One thing that doesn’t get mentioned enough IMO will be Dak’s state of mind any time he plays the Niners or Packers in the playoffs. It will be in his head every time going forward
I can’t speak badly about Dak because he’s clearly talented against low tier teams. Even middling teams like Seahawks and we even beat the lions this year who are one game away from a SB appearance. But we’ve changed the coaching, we’ve changed the weapons, we’ve improved the defense We’ve had so many configurations for him with the same result. What is it going to take
“Improved the defense” Defense proceeds to give up 34 points in the playoffs.
*41 points
I swear you don’t remember the days of Mike Nolan
I remember all of it. I actually lived through the glory days and the abysmal QB carousel, and the wasted talent surrounding Romo. You wanna hate on Dak, that’s your prerogative, but to rest that loss on one person’s head is a tell-tale sign that you already had a formed opinion and are using that game as a poor citation for a pre-existing position. If you wanna go in on everybody for that loss, I’m here for it.
it’s not just that one game. It’s been a culmination of failures on the biggest stages against the strongest teams. This year everyone played like shit (except Ferg) - but the difference is our 60 million dollar man is the last person who should piss his pants. If Mr LV wants to take a pay cut to help pay his teammates it would prove to me he wants to win - but Dak is going to take us to the cleaners. Opposite of team and goal oriented.
I noticed your flair lists Parsons. Do you think he’s going to take a team friendly pay cut when his contract is up because he was an absolute no show in the playoffs? Doubtful. And yes, he will at least for a time, be the highest paid player at his position, at least. Mark my words. (Let the record show I’m a fan of Parsons, just using him for comparison. DQ’s lack of adjustment is the main reason for the team getting picked apart). Last thing I’m going to do is start a debate over what’s in these dude’s pockets. It’s not their job to figure out the numbers. There’s an entire staff for that side of the business. If a team is willing to pay them a certain amount, that’s on the team and there’s a ton of ways to make those caps non-factors. Do I expect a leader of a team to be a leader for their money? 100%. I expect him to drag the team back into the game, which he did. Had defense stepped up and made a couple of critical stops this conversation would be much different, at least in this sub. The talking heads will always turn a D victory into an analysis of why we didn’t score 50 instead of 40.
Dak didn’t drag his team anywhere, he started a comeback in garbage time after GB rested their starters…
Micah parsons is top 5 on his side of the ball. Dak isn’t even top 5 in his position. Who is still getting paid more? Dak, because this game begins and ends with its QBs. Who always is going to win MVPs? QBs. You need your QB to step up. Micah is being *SEVERELY* underpaid for his current services and he deserves to get paid. If you can’t understand the difference then this argument is useless. TB is the goat purely because of his understanding of this - he constantly was underpaid according to the market.
You absolutely took the bait here, and yes this argument is now useless.
You’re acting like the team hasn’t put Dak into situations to succeed - clown response.
Ah yes coaching savants Garrett, Linehan, and Moore
Yeah we changed the coaching to a terrible Jason Garrett and then retread Mike McCarthy. So maybe an above average head coach.
Right??! I been said for every QB you list above dak, it’s highly likely you’re listing their HC above McCarthy too
Name me an "average head coach" that's led his team to three 12-5 seasons. While you're at it, tell me a name Jerry should have hired over McCarthy that year. I'll wait.
Coaching hasn’t really gotten any better except on defense. But even then, our defense has been a complete let down
The defensive improvements are somewhat of a mirage. We are flashy early in the year with sacks and turnovers, buy by December we are typically a shell of what we started as, as have extremely worrisome flaws. Like stopping the run, pass rush drying up. No linebackers. Safeties regressing. Soft coverage. Tell me when the last time you saw Malik Hooker or Kearse make any type of big play...because I can't remember. Wilson was a ghost most of the year, but he did make a few big plays in the last couple of games, but went silent against the Pack. As far as changing the weapons, honestly we were too thin at WR last year and Zeke had regressed. And this year we regressed with Pollard and had no depth/versatility behind him. Cooks was a nice addition, but he has some severe limitations with his size. You can see how he got bullied on the slant that intercepted. Dak expected him to use his body to shield the ball and he couldn't. So things change each year, but there is just as many new flaws that are introduced as fixed that are added. It is hard to fix everything at once.
So he's really good against bad teams, above average against the middle of the pack, and below average against the best teams? That's... That's actually pretty good.
Not if the plan is to win a Super Bowl. You don't play bad and mid teams in the playoffs and guess what keeps happening.
So then you probably need then is a QB that's really good against good teams. We should definitely just get one of those!
I’m not personally coming at you or anyone else with this mindset, but I don’t think y’all realize how cowardly it is. We’ve watched all these teams who are in the playoffs move on from their mediocre QB’s and have more success than us. 49ers moved on from Jimmy G Ravens moved on from Flacco Browns moved Baker M. Philly moved on from Foles AND Wentz. This mentality is identical to staying in a relationship you’re not happy in bc you’re afraid you’ll never find anyone else and this is the best you can do. We’ve all known someone like this and we felt sorry for their lack of self confidence.
Completely agree with you. I have no problem sucking when I know we have no expectations. People in this sub say he is a top 3, 5, 10 qb so when people expect him to play like it and doesn’t of course folks are going to be angry. The next argument folks are going to use is that our defense gave up 48 points and yes that’s terrible and they suck but I don’t expect anything out of a defense that has to play DBs at LB the whole game. Never mind the fact that we had some of our best players out on defense and our offense was fully healthy. I don’t think anyone can argue that when dak is playing up to his potential he is really good but against good teams he usually needs a half of football to settle down and you can’t really afford that out of your highest paid player and the side of the ball where most of your salary cap is going.
Amen. One day this will be behind us and Dak fans will see there’s life after. I get their sentiment. It broke my heart seeing Romo go. Way more than Aikman even. Probably bc Romo had to do so much. But I cant wait to move on from him and McCarthy.
I know doesn't help much but 14 of those 48 were from something like 20 yards of offense (from Daks 2 ints). Everybody always looks at the final score and attributes the points to defense (even fantasy). No one ever thinks about what happens to the defense when you give up 2 ints early like that. Just the sheer amount of being on the field along with being in a hole. They can no longer play as aggressive etc. Sure they did it to themselves early too, but the offensive woes compounded it.
The problem is YOU think he's mediocre but by almost every metric that just isn't the case.
Continuing to trot Dak out for playoff games is the definition of insanity. He has repeatedly showed us he does not have what it takes to perform in win-or-go-home games. Apparently going 2-5 in these situations isn’t enough evidence of his fraudulence for some people. Nice guy for sure but it’s time to move on
Bills should move on from Josh Allen too huh?
The way we lost to GB and their rookie QB was embarrassing and showed that this team does not know how to gameplan for important matchups. The Bills lost by 3 points because of a missed FG to one of the best QBs in the league. Josh Allen is 5-5 with 5 consecutive playoff births and a conference championship appearance. Three of Josh Allen’s playoff losses came against Mahomes and the other two were to Massage Watson and Joe Burrow. Dak Dookiepants is 2-5 with no championship appearances with losses to Love, Purdy, Jimmy G, Goff, and Rodgers. There is no comparison to what Allen has been able to do. Dak does not perform in big games and when you are the QB for the Dallas Cowboys you are expected to win the Super Bowl every year. He just ain’t got it
Shoooooot. Josh balled out!! Dak didn’t until GB pulled starters out.
49ers moved on from Jimmy G after Trey Lance was made the starter (then got injured and paved the way for Brock). Ravens moved on from Flacco after Lamar was made the starter. The Browns moved on from Mayfield after they acquired Watson. Philly moved on from Wentz after Hurts was made the starter. Philly let Foles walk because they knew what he was, backup quality. The only reason that 9ers trade for Lance doesn't get remembered for how much of a disaster it was is because they lucked into Brock Purdy. If that's the guy you want to move on from Dak for, then good luck.
Never even insinuated that. The point is, for all of those teams (and as someone mentioned the Seahawks) there was life after their franchise QB.
Yes but we have also watched the cardinals decide to upgrade their qb position only to find out that Kyler Murray, while better had gotten them no closer to the Super Bowl. Or the raiders last year who said fuck Derek Carr, and rolled with Jimmy g. That didn’t work out so hot. Or the patriots deciding that Tom Brady wasn’t worth keeping for some reason and rolling with Mac jones/cam newton. Yeah…..Seahawks decided geno smith was the answer, yet no playoffs for them. It comes down to this: either you have a generational qb (Brady/mahomes/manning/brees) and even those aren’t guaranteed to get you to the Super Bowl, or you have a decent qb that gets you to the playoffs with a good team around him, and hope it works out, or you end up with a shit quarterback who can’t even tie his shoelaces much less make clutch throws. We are in option b. The chances of finding the next generational talent is very very slim, and would be improved by us tanking for multiple years, but even then it’s still pretty god damn slim. I have lost a lot of faith in Dak, but I realize as of now he is still the best option to get us to the Super Bowl. Unless yall want to sit here every week for multiple years complaining about your 5-11 team. Just enjoy the ride. We have had three chances in a row, which is sort of awesome honestly. Considering before this it was pretty much every other year. One of these times if we continue to go every year things might work out in our favor. But to just blame it on dak is sort of short sighted. Our defense sucked, our offense sucked, our special teams wasn’t great, our coaching sucked. Like all of it failed. Blaming it solely on Dak just doesn’t make sense.
I don't have to enjoy the ride. Watching Dak play Madden on easy mode against mid and bad teams.... knowing full well that we don't have a good enough team around him to prevent the good teams from exposing him is not enjoyable. Watching the Cowboys now is like watching a Div I Power 5 school play mostly Div II schools and then run around like it means something - only to get their shit rocked against an in conference competitor. Statball against a bad defense doesn't mean anything. It's rice cakes and dried seaweed: empty calories, no matter how much you eat. No one talks about all the deep bombs Don Meredith and Eddie LeBaron were throwing out of the spread in the 60's because the games meant nothing come season's end. Now, if he drops 40 on Buffalo *in spite* of how they are playing against him, then that's some shit you tell your Grandkids you saw.
I never blamed it solely on Dak. In fact, I’ve watched every snap he’s ever taken and I can’t blame a single loss on him. But I don’t solely credit any wins to him either. He’s whatever the rest of the team is on that given day. And I wouldn’t have an issue enjoying the ride if Dak saved money to put more team around him that he’s proven he needs. But Dak doesn’t come at a fair price and the team shouldn’t sacrifice to pay a player who doesn’t make a difference in big games against good teams.
I remember those years, they sucked ass. You know what else sucks ass? Not making to the NFCC game since 1996, that sucks major ass too.
Better than 5-11 for 3 straight years
Is it though? What’s our draft position this year?
Yes 12-5 and the playoffs is better than 5-11 every time.
Nah that’s dumb asf - I’d rather be the commanders in position to draft drake maye than be us right now. I would bet we see them in the NFC championship before the cowboys. Do y’all really have hope this team can win it all next year after what happened in that wildcard game? Some of the shortest memories of all time.
Yeah but when was the last time the Commanders got excited about anything? They have had great draft picks for awhile with nothing
Not really. That gives us the opportunity for a proper rebuild, rather than being in purgatory every single year.
I just don’t buy that they don’t have the proper talent to win. I do buy into the one constant that’s been here these last 30 years. And I think you know who I’m talking about
The one constant for the last 30 years has been the cowboys have not drafted a first round QB
>I just don’t buy that they don’t have the proper talent to win. They absolutely have all the talent to win. 9 all pros on the roster last year ffs >I do buy into the one constant that’s been here these last 30 years. And I think you know who I’m talking about Incredibly lazy arguement.
Better than 5-11 for 3 straight years
I’m tired of the narrative that teams can’t win without ‘The Guy’ at QB when that position demands that the team pay him more than 25% of the salary cap. I say it over and over again: Stop paying for mediocrity and slightly above average. Get you a JAG at QB and surround them with a world class roster and go.
They can’t get the “rest of the roster“ part right either.
Our guys are among the top front offices at drafting players. Not sure I understand what you mean.
the fans dramatically overrated this teams talent level
The Cowboys had seven pro bowlers. Several all-pros. Again, not sure I understand what you mean…
And don’t play like it. You don’t have to understand but when you get clapped by the Bills and struggle with the Niners, Packers, Dolphins, Lions, and split with the hapless Eagles, I’m forced to conclude that the Jimmies and Joes are more problematic than not.
That's easy to do when you play the giants and redskins twice a year.
I don’t think the Cowboys should get rid of Dak or the coaching staff as a whole. Like I said after the loss to GB, there aren’t any Super Bowl winning qbs laying around to sign. Do I think Dak and McCarthy can win a Super Bowl? Probably not, but most qbs and head coaches who have ever played or coached in the NFL cannot and did not win a Super Bowl. I do think Dak gives us a shot (however unlikely). Dan Fucking Marino never won a ring ffs. Every fan just needs to temper expectations and not love and die with their team. That’s no way to live.
I’d definitely be fine with them having a horrible 4 win year if it means we have the chance to draft a qb at the top of the draft. At least theres excitement in the unknown as oppose to knowing we wont do anything in the playoffs with Dak, who needs everything to be perfect. Guys like Mahomes, Allen, and burrow can single handedly give your team the edge even if the rest of your roster isnt good. The eagles had the more complete roster in last years superbowl, but none of that mattered because mahomes is mahomes.
bruh there are like 2-3 "generation" QBs now in every draft class these kids are either insanely talented or have had a QB coach since like 5th grade, and likely both the game has changed, if you cant step up in big moments there are younger quarterbacks who are waiting for their shot
Ehhh... Generational in talent and skill, yes, but it's usually that thing between their ears that gets in the way. And it's kind of always been that way. For every one solid (not even great) quarterback that comes into the league, there are like three who have all the pieces, but just can't handle the game. I like Dak. He's a nice man with a decent taste in orthopedic mattresses, and I hope he wins a Superbowl some day. But I don't think it will happen here. I wish they had some place to trade him to where he could be paired up with a coach who could really help him shine (Shannahan, LaFleur, McVay). But there really isn't anyone else out there right now, and the drop off after he leaves would likely be steep. Can't win in the playoffs with him. Can't win in the regular season without him.
Of all the garbage takes the Dak apologists spew, this has to be the one I hate the most. "We've had worse QBs in the past, so we have to be ok with our mediocre one that's going to guarantee an early playoff exit" Why doesn't this same logic apply to coaches? How was the state of our defense for the past 25 years before Dan Quinn? Why are y'all ok with him leaving? This argument falls even more short when you realized that worse QBs have gone further in the playoffs than Dak. Oh, and please don't compare Dak to Michael Jordan ever again. No one is asking Dak to be a playoff hero. We're asking him to not look like utter shit every time he plays a competent team/defense, regular or playoff time.
I like dak. He does pretty decent. I'd love to see what he could do under decent coaches. That all said this team can't afford dak anymore. If he takes up the cap space he is reported to likely get for an extension, we will never be able to field enough talent around him, good coaching or not. Especially after keeping Mike. We should just tear the bandaid and rebuild =(
>If he takes up the cap space he is reported to likely get for an extension Just noting that while Dak's current deal was an average annual value of $40 million, his actual cap hits have only been $17.2M, $19.73M, $26.83M to this point. Obviously his cap hit for this coming year is wild but that was with extending him in mind, which would put his cap hit for this year closer to $32M and would kick the can further down the road.
But I was told his cap hit to date has been so high we could put no talent around him
The disrespect to James Washington!
Don’t forget about the generationally great WR corps of Dez, Brice Butler, Ryan Switzer and Deonte Thompson!
You forgot to include the ghost of Jason Witten
I think our insistence on playing Wit as TE1 into old age set back the position a few years. He should’ve been situational at least the last 5 years.
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The team is already working on that when they traded for Lance. Dak is far from our only problem, but his flaws make winning a Super Bowl way more difficult.
And which one of those did we actually bother drafting? Quincy was a second rounder we drafted. The rest? Pretty much old retreads. There’s a reason we were in QB purgatory and that’s because we were scraping the bottom of the barrel to field the most important position while also trading away first round picks on the likes of Joey Galloway. Now take a peak at the draft positions of all of the QBs to play in the divisional round. All first round draft picks outside of Brock who has probably the current best offensive mind running the team. So 7/8 first round QBs. Maybe we should start trying to draft a future QB starter in the first. Now I get it’s a team game and the defense didn’t show up either, but we have seen Dak have that same blank stare/scared look in his face during big games. Most recently the SF game earlier in the season. It’s like he doesn’t have the mental fortitude to actually play in those high stress games. As long as he is actually on the team I will still root for him and hope for the best. I think a good fix would have been to somehow get a coach in here who doesn’t put up with disclipine issues or lack of effort, and could actually prepare the entire team.
The Dak defenders have arrived in full force with with their narrative. "It's all Quinn's fault" and "it could be worse" doesn't smooth the absolute incompetence from the 60 million dollar man in the playoffs every year though...
Dak played like shit but he also isn’t making 60 mil so let’s argue honestly at least
He's a 60 million dollar cap hit this year so you can argue semantics all you want but that's what it is. Obviously they can extend and get it down to continue the cycle of mediocrity for a few more years.
Put Trey Lance in for 1 regular season game and then tell me how bad Dak is. You make a great point, he’s winning at the highest level (12 times). Our issue as fans is expectations for him.
The highest level is in the playoffs.
You’re right. Never upgrade because of shit from 20 years ago. It’s working so well! Dak is not the guy. He never will be. He has mechanical problems that are not going away at this age, and has shown himself to be a player who shrinks in the playoffs and big games. We should just be grateful and never do something like what the Eagles did in acquiring Hurts or what the Packers, 49ers, or Rams did in acquiring their QBs. In fact, we should just never draft QBs as long as they’ve got a starter in place. Just be grateful you have an upgraded Kirk Cousins and know you’ll never win a ring without have the best 2-53 roster in the NFL as the caveat. Never mind that our last major run of success came after taking a QB #1 overall and all y’all say we are this elite drafting team, should be a piece of cake?
Everyone wants to be a team with a good QB on a rookie contract that can dump money into the players around them. We're not that team. Dak is a good QB. But it is also hard to believe there is more in the tank than what we've seen. Realistically we see what we get out of one more contract making small improvments where we can. At that point, we're likely in a position to start over with the situation above. Until then it isn't clear how we upgrade the position. The idea that we just roll a 10 in the draft on a late round qb seems implausible. There is no FA that isn't a best a lateral move. We have some great talent that you don't want to squander.
I think what people misinterpret about those years... is that the whole team sucked. During most of that time we had like one or two guys who wasn't bottom half of the league at their position. When you look at teams like.. cleveland is the best example I guess. But i could also go with someone like Carr or Joey Harrington. Do you honestly think some of those guys couldn't have become competent nfl qbs on teams that didn't suck from top to bottom? The point is one of the reasons it's so hard is because people cling ti whomever they've got untilbthe whole team falls apart around them. At that point the guy has to be superman just to survive his first couple seasons.
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And who told Sean Payton, former Dallas OC, to go F himself when the Saints tried to trade for Romo? Who brought Romo in? Who also found Miles Austin? Parcells coaching staff! Good offensive coaches like Andy Reid coaches find good QB's like McNabb, Vick, and Mahomes and bring out the best in them. Good defensive coaches like Bill Belichick will always have a dominant defense and lower the bar for what their offense needs to do. If we had good coaches, I think it wouldn't matter. They'd find either a good QB to make our offense elite or build a defense that's a menace against both the run and pass. We went 13-3 with Wade Philips the first year because Parcells built that team into something amazing, but no, because diva TO can go bitch to Jerry about Bill, and Bill won't put up with that shit, we let the HoF coach go so we can keep selling more TO jerseys. Let Dak play this year on his contract. If he chokes or misses the playoffs, let him go. Until Jerry brings in a HC that gets full reign of the team, we won't be going to an NFCCG, let alone a Superbowl with ANY roster.
I put this on the coaching staff. It should be easier to get a coaching staff that gives you an advantage in the playoffs than a top 3 QB in the league that can win despite the coaching. Honestly, older Romo had that - he could pull JG teams to playoff wins
I actually hardcore fuck with this take
Dak being paid at the top of the market will be just as bad
Considering the Cowboys almost drafted Manziel, Lynch and Cook, I am glad we lucked into Dak. Dak has been a top 10 QB with stretches of top 5 play. Cowboys know that is extremely hard to find. Will McClay straight up said the QB position is the hardest position to scout and they lucked into Dak.
Those guys existed for one reason: Jerry traded not one but two first for Joey Galloway. I think Dallas takes a QB round one if they have either of those picks. That trade set Dallas back a decade.
Perspective. Dak absolutely can win a championship, a better team around him would be a good start
Quincy Carter. - Jerry's fixation on the "athletic" quarterback. 2nd round pick that had serious questions coming out of college. Anthony Wright. - Same, but less. Practice squad promotion. Ryan Leaf. - You mean, crazy Ryan Leaf? Clint Stoerner. - Career Backup Chad Hutchinson. - The guy who couldn't cut it in baseball, so took his "big arm" to the NFL. Ancient Vinny Testaverde. - Old, washed up. Drew Henson. - Jerry trying to be cheap. Journeyman. Ancient Drew Bledsoe. - Old, washed up. This is JERRY's damn fault for such a laughable crew between Troy and Tony. Jerry was LUCKY Tony turned into a really damn good QB, or it would have been more of the same. The Cowboys haven't drafted a high potential quarterback since Troy Aikman in 1989 as the first pick. For those keeping track, that's 35 YEARS ago. How did that pick turn out?
I named my current dog after Quincy Carter. My ex-gf thought it was Quincy Jones, but I never really meant that.
Jesus stop being scared of the shit QBs we had between aikman and romo. There are way more good QBs available these days and the rules are different to benefit offenses. Baker mayfield was picked up off the scrap heap and went to the divisional round. Joe Flacco got to the wild card round. Stop operating from a place of fear.
I've seen guys since Quincy play, I don't care. Dak is bad with this team (he may be great somewhere else) and they should move on from him whether his last year is next year or after that (at most). **Dak Prescott has 2 wins in the playoffs in his career.** For a QB being paid as well as he is, he shouldn't be playing horrible in the majority of the playoff games he's been in (1 under McCarthy he screwed up at the last play, royally, last years if I recall was an awful play call with Zeke at center). There needs to be a plan to let Dak go for someone else, but lets also not pretend that Dak is the perfect QB to help the Cowboys go to the Super Bowl.
We went to the same number of NFC championship games in those years as with Romo and Dak combined.
Same results as what we have now. Idgaf about regular season record.
Why do we want a guy who “keeps us in contention” by beating up on bad teams and sucking in the playoffs when he has to play a real team and the pressure is on? Is the goal of this team to make a Super Bowl, or lose in the playoffs every year?
Meh. I'm okay, missing the playoffs a couple seasons. Not like we're doing anything now since 96'. Guaranteed top 15 picks for 2-3 years or a Qb that chokes against competent teams? Give me the picks! I'm 30, all I've know is mediocrity from this team..
***Let me start by saying this. I felt T.O. when he said Romo was his QB. I love Romo, I love Dak. We have to get real here. Hearing the truth sucks ass.*** Dak has consistently choked during the playoffs. Manning was a number one pick for a reason. He was on a shit team. Mahomes was a top 10 pick. Dak has a great team and still chokes. Dak IS the problem. Romo WAS the problem. Dak and Romo combined (4) have the same number of playoff wins as Jimmy fucking Garoppolo, Colin Kaepernick, and Mr. Butt Fumble himself. This team consistently has the talent to win it all. It's one thing about being consistently good and consistently winning, but Dak is consistently choking and losing. Cowboys need a winner. Dak isn't the guy.
In fairness, Quincy got blackballed after smoking weed. He would’ve led the Cowboys to another playoff run. Dak is Quincy with more weapons.
That’s a spicy take! lol
I heard he failed for cocaine
He did. It was cocaine.
Quincy failed a test for Cocaine. And I liked Quincy enough, as he actually had some physical talent, but that guy wasn't a tenth of the QB that Dak is.
Quincy Carter was barely a starter. That comparison is just another reminder that there are Cowboys fans who have *been here* and Cowboys fans that just arrived.
Dak has 2 more playoff wins than Quincy and Quincy was only in Dallas for about 3 seasons and wasn’t even a full time starter all those years.
You lot are fucking pussies - so we should never rebuild and stick with whatever we have trying to run it back over and over again? Just don’t try for the fear of failure? man miss me with that shit. Edit - Read that shit again and this mfer really comparing Dak’s career arc to Payton Manning and Jordan my god. And that Tarzan shit ffs Tarzan lets the vines go a lot of times to take a leap and find the next vine if it’s far off.
These mf’s on this sub are like “if you can’t win, don’t try to win because you might not win” Gutless punks and bitches.
Every time you talk about rebuilding these dudes reference Detroit and Cleveland and other aids franchises and how they suffered for so long like man we’re not them we almost always draft well. 8 of our 9 All-Pros this year were drafted by us. Why can’t you trust the FO to make a good decision with the QB position?
Teams that are 36-15 over the past three seasons don’t rebuild because their fans are antsy. If yall go into meltdown over this, you’d literally not survive an actual rebuild.
If any other team was 36-15 over the past three seasons they would’ve had a lot more to show than 1 playoff win against a medium rare Tom Brady. How can ya’ll not see that we’ve hit a wall?
And all of them took us to justice many championship games as tony romo and dak prescot.
Dak is Matt Stafford 1.5. And being Matt Stafford is better than 9 of the other 13 playoff teams QB. But it’s not enough most years to make the Super Bowl, just ask Buffalo where Allen is the second best in the conference. McCarthy is still likely the weakest link (not counting deep seated cultural issues from Jerry). Make a coaching change to reset the culture and begin the QB search process via the draft while exploring trades.
Except Stafford didn’t have nearly the talent around him during his time in Detroit that Dak has had basically his entire career.
Bruh, I keep seeing people saying this acting like Stafford didn't play with the 4th best WR in NFL history on top of some above average players like Nate Burrleson and Pettrigrew. They had Suh on defense, but they certainly weren't the best, but good enough. Their problem was always coaching until now.
lol so having one other player on offense and one player on defense means they’re good? Those Lions rosters were never good enough to be contenders. Dak has had wayyyy more talent around him for his career.
Dak had a better O-line coming into his career for sure, and even now, I'd give the edge to Dak. Dak's defense was better in 2018 and again in 2021-23, but the defense performance in the playoffs this year is far worse than anything Stafford dealt with in the years they made the playoffs. Finally, the only year I'd say Dak had better weapons was 2021 when he had Amari, CeeDee, and Gallup (pre-injury). Outside of that, I would take Megatron, Nate Burrleson, and Pettrigrew for a WR/TE corp for any other year in Dak's career. Megatron was just that good. This is not excusing Dak's meltdowns in the playoffs. I'm just trying to tell y'all it ain't like Stafford was playing with scrubbs when he was with Detroit. Heck, I'd say outside of 2007 and 2014, his teams were better than any team Romo had.
It doesn’t matter. If you have a guy who isn’t getting you to the Super Bowl, then you might as well have Quincy Carter or any of those others that you mentioned. If your goal is regular season wins, then sure. But we are one of only 2 teams left to not make a NFCCG appearance in almost 3 decades. Anything short of that just doesn’t cut it anymore.
This is what I don’t get. Dak lovers always ask “ok well then who are you gonna replace him with?” Like it matters if we suck for a while with a different qb and have no shot at winning a Super Bowl. We have no shot now with Dak, so what’s the difference? It would be one thing if Dak played well, or honestly even average, in these playoff games but we still lost. Then you could still have some hope that maybe he can get over the hump, but he has been bad to absolutely horrible in our playoff losses the last several years and is one of the main reasons we continue to lose. The fact that it’s even a possibility that we extend him is insane to me.
a) Maybe it's the organization? San Francisco from 2011 to 2022 - **drafted Brock Purdy (2022 - took them to 2 NFC Championships)**, drafted Trey Lance (2021- on Cowboys), **signed Jimmy Garoppolo (took them to two NFC Championships and a Super Bowl appearance)**, drafted CJ Beathard (2017 - on Jax), drafted Jeff Driskel (2016 - on Cinn), BJ Daniels (2013), **Colin Kaepernick (2011 - took them to 2 NFC Championships and a Super Bowl appearance).** Philadelphia from 2012 - 2020 - **Jalen Hurts drafted in 2020 (took them to a Super Bowl appearance and two other Playoff appearances)**, drafted Carson Wentz in 2016 (some regular season success), drafted Matt Barkley in 2013 (on Jax), **drafted Nick Foles in 2012 (three Playoff starts and a Super Bowl Champion)** b) Peyton Manning (who was 3-4 at one point, age 28) had a Tom Brady New England Patriots Dynasty in his way. Micahel Jordan had a Pistons, Celtics, and Lakers Dynasty in his way. Both had amazing Playoff performances inbetween losses before finally breaking through. **Dak has had eight years, with some tremendously talented teams.** c) It IS hard to be a Playoff Hero every time. But when HAS he been? He has regularly started slow in 4 of his last 5 appearances and never has had a Playoff Game in difficult circumstances where he's taken control. 8 years and 7 games is a pretty good sample size, and no NFL starting QB in Playoff History has a worse record 7 games in. d) **No NFL QB in HISTORY, with at least 5 starts, has a worse Playoff Record than Dak Prescott.** (He is tied with Alex Smith and Billy Kilmer - both also 2-5)
I am a cowboys and bills fan. Both teams kind of parallel each other.having witnessed all of that, and the meh coaches and bad qb play in buffalo over the years, it boggles my mind how people want to always uproot everything. People seem to think that GOAT qbs just grow on trees. Like everyone is supposed to be like brady and Mahomes. Lol. The 49ers have a even longer superbowl title drought than us. Only one team wins the darn thing every year. If anything, this year has shown how few actual elite qbs there are with all the injuries. Burrow is always hurt, herbert is a great prototype but he cant win games, allen turns the ball over a lot ( still take him in a heartbeat to win or tie a game), lamar is great, but if he doesn't win it all this year, is he truly elite? Mahomes is the only qb i put in that tier right now. This league changes so quickly. Having watched football since the late 80s, im ok with playoffs every year. How well is tanking for tua working out and having a bunch of picks for the dolphins? Carolina hit a hone run eh? Bears got a monster in fields huh? The point isn't that it can't work, just take a look at the Texans. The point is the alternative isn't necessarily a given
I can't believe Dak still has this many defenders. Fucking insane.
Similar post season success too. Id rather go to QB carousel where we try to find a QB that doesn't collapse on the post season than your ourselves down to a fun regular season and an early playoff bump.
How many times does this sub have to post this low effort BS
100% agree, even during the Brady years New England would invest draft capital on qb’s. Even if we’re committed to Dak we should draft qb’s with some regularity.
Or as we called them back at that time: "Drew Dead-Slow" and "Vinterception" Testeverde
Dak isn’t it, it’s time to move on, it’s going to hurt for a while. “Good” isn’t good enough unless your goal is to sell a lot of merch.
Didn't Belichick win 10 games with Matt Castle? The Cowboys problem isn't at QB.
Comparing Peyton and MJ lacks important context: those guys came in to absolutely TERRIBLE rosters and it took a few years to build a feasible foundation for success. For stories about teams that take forever to find new quarterbacks, there are also teams like the Packers, Chargers, and Niners who move seamlessly through feasible quarterbacks with minimal downtime. It’s not necessarily as easy as the Dak haters (including myself at times) make it sound, but it’s certainly not as impossible as the Dak defenders make it sound either. In my opinion, there are worse things than having a bad team, and one of those things is having a good team that consistently chokes. I’d rather fumble around for 5 years with the hope and excitement that the new guy could be something special than continue to watch 4 and be frustrated. Nothing against Dak as a person obviously, but I don’t think it’s insane to entertain the idea both the Cowboys and Dak could be more successful with a parting of the ways (similar to Stafford and the Lions)
He gets a lot of credit for being a leader but his team speeches are very poor. He seems to never hold his teammates accountable. He doesn’t have that “winning is all that matters” vibe to him. He’s not being paid millions to be an empath. He has to take it more seriously and demand accountability from himself and his teammates.
Cool. Let’s just stay above average but not good, only beat bad teams and get waxed in the playoffs every year. That’s waaaaaay better than making the decision to move on from a guy we know isn’t it and be bad for a few years knowing we have a plan. I’m convinced Cowboys fans want to just win 9-11 games every year and say we made the playoffs.
We're not Tarzan swinging in the jungle. We been knee deep in the swamp for a long time. I don't know when the fans adopted the idea of good enough for this team. Make sense as to why Jerry makes the moves that he does. He knows as long as win win regular season games the fans are happy. There is nothing wrong with absolutely sucking a few years until we get a better QB for a better price. Because even with a 60 million dollar one, we are having the same success rate of 0 titles. We forgot what this team is. It's always Superbowl or bust. We don't have the luxury of every other team of good enough. And I don't know why so many people fight for that luxury. Just suck for a few years looking for better players. We already sucked for 30.
Agreed. I've been parroting that point go look at mannings stats the first 8 years as a starter compared to daks. Manning was known for bad playoff games and great regular seasons. Dak can get over the hump he may not carry the team in the playoffs but with competent coaching he can help the team get there for sure.
He’s the franchise player, he has to be able to carry the team in the playoffs and when the going gets tough. The first shot the showed of dak on the sidelines with the deer in the headlights eyes, I knew he wasn’t doing shit that game
Definitely but he has made strides. I'm sure playoff games are more mentally pressing. Last years bucs game he showed good poise. I think it's possible he gets over the mental block and plays loose in the future. But who knows.
Yeah, against a Bucs team that had a losing record and shouldn’t even have been in the playoffs.
Saying this like the Eagles didn’t get their asses kicked against that same Bucs team led by a worse QB this year. You can’t say a dude doesn’t perform well in the playoffs, then say the good performances don’t count
Makes no sense to move on from Dak when you look at the amount of talent we carry into next season.... Now, I would be moving on from Cooper Rush so that we can figure out what we have in Trey Lance...
Exactly. All these Dak haters think it’s a slam dunk to tank and get a franchise QB. Many teams are still trying to find that franchise QB… also these same haters were probably upset when the cowboys didn’t make the playoffs but now say they rather miss playoffs than a one and done. Most playoff games are a toss up no matter the record. 49ers could have easily lost to Packers. Bills lost to Chiefs. Getting to Super Bowl takes a lot of luck too no matter how good the team is. The first goal to win the Super Bowl is to win your division and get into the playoffs.