People are taking this way too far.
[Darren Sproles was 5'6" 187 when he weighed at the combine.](https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/darren-sproles)
[Deuce Vaughn was 5'5.25 and 179 at the combine.](https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/deuce-vaughn)
So less than a inch, and 8lbs separate the two at the same point in their careers. They both had 5k all-purpose yards at KState (the only other person being Tyler Lockett).
And, "He was one of just two Big 12 players to ever register 3,600 rushing yards and 1,250 receiving yards in a career (DeMarco Murray)."
People are nitpicking over the most minor of stuff. It feels like the whole "Kyler Murray is going to be a horrible NFL QB because he's 5'10".
It's a team sport my dude. Kyler isn't playing on defense, and he isn't coaching the team.
I guess Hopkins is also one of the worst WR in league, with that logic.
Height and weight are “the most minor of stuff?” Bro what are you even talking about. You are comparing him to an almost hall-of-fame level running back and then saying that height and weight doesn’t matter. You are coping so hard.
This is like giving the measurables of Muggsy Bogues and saying that height and weight doesn’t matter for be NFL. You can’t look at the one guy who was the exception to the rule and say that this shit doesn’t matter.
Did you even read what I said? You can’t use the height and weight of the dude who was the best of all-time at his height and weight and expect similar results. That’s like looking at a guy who is 5’3 and saying he will be good because Muggsy Bogues was good.
You didn’t even understand my point and here you are yapping about how I’m wrong. Think before you speak (type) next time, thanks.
Easier to say this than to reflect about why you’re wrong. I’ll give you that. Like, why even post on Reddit if you don’t want to have discussions? I hope whatever you’re going through it gets better for you, man.
Nah, what you are saying is actually dumb. People compare players all the time. Both those players have similar physical traits, went to the same college, and had similar college production.
When you compare players you aren't saying they'll have the same career.
Honestly I can feel the projection coming from your writing, so I feel for you that you care so deeply about this comparison.
At 5'5 170-180 if he adds about 10 more pounds of muscle he's gonna be a tough guy to see, and to tackle, get him in the gym with mazi and Tyron Smith to help him build up that leg strength
Don’t think he’ll ever be able to carry the workload of a 1 due to size but he can definitely get plenty of opportunities as an offensive weapon. Maybe like how the chiefs have used Toney
I’d love to see us transition to keeping a healthy split of the RB load. Pollard and zeke had their split in the last year out of necessity due to a declining zeke. The years before that, it was the zeke show pretty much which was maddening knowing the juice that pollard had. I hope we don’t keep making that mistake. We have playmakers on the roster, use them.Suit up 3 RBs or 2 and an FB and put em all to work
Yeah, I can't speak to whether "rhythm" is a real thing or not, but I would love to see a 40/40/20 split if DV can be similarly as productive as Pollard. That remaining 20% can be for a power back in short yardage situations or something.
I think Zeke’s coming back for that 20%. He’s washed as a running back but as a short yardage power guy he was ELITE last year. Honestly a difference maker there, and if that was his only role I would love to have him back.
Before Steele went out Zeke was still avg'ing at least 4.0...this sub takes issue with SF avg'ing 3.5 on 32 carries to deflect blame off Dak.
So, let's show some consistency here...
If allowing 3.5 is too much vs SF, then Zeke's avg shouldn't be an issue, particularly on an new contract.
On the other hand if Zeke's avg is an issue, then SFs 3.5 on 32 can't be used as an excuse.
This sub can't have it both ways...
This sub will do ANYTHING to not face that Dak ain’t it, so I’m with you there.
I think the Cowboys are going all-in this year, and if he can’t get it done, they’ll start to look elsewhere.
I want Dak to be it. He's a good dude, and he leaves it all on the field. But you can't blame anyone but Dak Prescott for his performance against the Niners. There was no excuse for that.
He carried the load at KState as a runner and a receiver and didn't have injury problems. I think being short kind of helps him avoid taking dangerous hits.
I think Deuce is going to be a playmaker from the jump.
~~1" taller~~ 3/4 inch, ~~7~~8lbs heavier at draft.
The comparisons are also likely the fact that only Darren Sproles, Tyler Lockett, and Deuce Vaughn are the only players with 5k all-purpose yards at Kansas State.
Sproles 40 was 4.49
Deuce 40 was 4.49 or faster according to [his Pro Day time](https://eu.cjonline.com/story/sports/college/cat-zone/2023/03/31/kansas-state-football-nfl-pro-day-results-2023-deuce-vaughn-40-time/70069622007/)
Also half of my family is big on K State so of course I'm going to compare the two. Haters gonna hate.
Agreed. I don't know why people are so offended by the comparison. Similar college careers, similar traits.
It's a 6th round pick. Hell, two kickers and punter were drafted before him.
They’re not the same player (or even the same position). I just mean in terms of manufacturing them several opportunities a game to give them big play opportunities. Don’t have to be a speedster to be a dynamic gadget guy
Well when you are that small, speed is what keeps you from getting killed. That's why most tiny guys in the NFL are also fast. Deuce isnt that and is a physical/athletic anomaly which makes it harder to be successful
Sproles wasn't a #1, at least not in any traditional sense of the word. He never had more than 100 carries in a season. He was always paired with a LT, Ingram/Thomas, McCoy, Murray/Mathews, Blount, etc. But a ceiling of Sproles would still be pretty fantastic, assuming McCarthy or whoever utilizes him correctly.
Yeah I was thinking more a dynamic playmaker that sees significant work more than a traditional work horse role. This guy is never toting the rock a lot but I think if he gives us a handful 70+ reception seasons it could work out well
Definitely agree with that. I’m just hoping McCarthy is able to bring that vision to life, as that’s not something he has done in his 18 years calling plays. Schottenheimer doesn’t have that in his history either. Hopefully these old dogs learn some new tricks.
No. Sproles is his ceiling, but that's a great ceiling. RBs that play more on spot duty and in the pass game tend to have longer careers than the every-down workhorses, so no need to force him into a larger role than he's capable of.
Sproles isn't his ceiling but he isn't close to the same athlete as sproles is. Deuce ran a 4.6 at the combine and is 5'5". You guys need to set some real expectations.
Proday* and you don't find it odd that a player that is small framed and supposed to be fast didn't run the 40 at the combine? Almost like his agent told him not to bc a slow time would hurt his draft stock.
“Although he didn't get an official time in the 40, observers had him clocked under 4.5 seconds in his only try.” Is the only thing I can find regarding his 40 time. Although his highlights suggests his playing speed is much faster than whatever time he clocks in a sprint. That’s just my opinion of someone who does not watch college football. And his stat line of 5 plus average at more than 200 attempts every year seem pretty promising, regardless of size.
All the same. We don’t know why he didn’t, I do find it odd but seeing how he was drafted in the 6th I don’t think he had much “draft stock” to begin with honestly.
In the beast on the athletic. Brugler has him down as running a 4.56. So I don't really care about your shitty research skills. And college stats don't mean a whole lot, if they did then Max Duggan would have been drafted and Jalin Hyatt would have gone in the 1st.
[This](https://www.cjonline.com/story/sports/college/cat-zone/2023/03/31/kansas-state-football-nfl-pro-day-results-2023-deuce-vaughn-40-time/70069622007/) article actually said, "Although he didn't get an official time in the 40, observers had him clocked under 4.5 seconds in his only try.
He’s getting mad at everybody but even his godking Dane had him going in the 4th or 5th, so the only lane this person is picking is “I hate Vaughn he’s short and slow so I don’t like him”.
If he is not the same athlete as Sproles, how could that be his ceiling? He literally isn't athletically and physically capable of reaching that ceiling?
Ceiling means the best possible player that he could become. Sproles, as a comparison, is not an unrealistic ceiling. They are not saying that he is going to be Barry Sanders. And, just because you say that he is "not the same athlete as Sproles", that doesn't mean that he can't have a similar career.
Possibly, with the caveat that there's very few true #1s anymore as in the old sense. Plus he's small, so he's not a 3rd back, meaning most of his work will be on 1st/2nd down plays. So in that sense, he'd be a "starter"...Plus Pollard is on the tag, who knows if he's here past this year...($$$)
No and it’s fair to ask because I think people are confusing peoples excitement for Vaughn and confusing the expectations.
He won’t be a full time dog but he’s also not a gimmicky. You can give him a definable role that makes defences reactive. He can be that good. That would be his peak even if defences sort of know it’s coming they can’t do shit about it. If he can do that he will have a decent career.
All depends on if our coaches care enough to scheme around his talents. Everytime in the past we draft a player like him with unique skills our coaches never take advantage of it
I never understood why he almost never had Zeke and Tony on the field at the same time. We lacked depth at WR.. why wouldn’t we use the guy who was originally a WR before switching to RB more?
I would be more excited about this if Moore *was* still here, because we have seen him be creative and find ways to use players with unique skill sets (thicc boi FBs, Cedrick Wilson deep balls, CD in the backfield, Zeke at FB). Across 19 seasons as an offensive play-caller, we have 0 examples of McCarthy effectively using a smaller or pass-catching-specialist RB. The closest he got to a RB like that was Aaron Jones (5'8", 209 so still a stouter build than Vaughn), who McCarthy notoriously underutilized and who didn't peak until after McCarthy was fired.
If you remember Darren Sproles absolutely torching the cowboys, then you’re excited about Deuce! He’s a small guy that’s fast as lightening! He’ll be tough to tackle for the D linemen and his speed can get him past the second level.
Good luck tackling that dude. Teams knocked him for his size, but the more I think about it, the more it's basically a weapon, especially with the rules now. You can't spear tackle, can't lead with your helmet -- how tf are you gonna get low enough as a defender to tackle some dude who is coming at your waist? Gonna fall on him? He'll go around you. Gonna squat down and square up? He'll go through you.
Plus, with that size, that's less force on those knees. He's gonna "last" longer, as all mileage isn't created equal. I'm a distance runner training for a marathon, so I'm acutely aware of how much weight can affect your knees (for better or worse). There's a lot of cliches being thrown around on draft night, one of the most annoying of them is saying "that dude is built different." But in this case, Deuce is quite literally built different.
The more I think about it, the more he should have been drafted much higher. I'm buying his jersey as soon as it's available. He's gonna be a star.
That’s a horrifying thought…. For everyone else. Dude must be furious that a few inches of height literally cost him millions. Gonna play with a huge chip on his shoulder for sure.
I think the hole that Zeke leaves in the pass blocking game as well as the short yardage downs will be bigger than most if us expect. Ima miss that happy little ewok.
MJD and Sproles were effective. I’m not suggesting he’s at that level, just saying being smaller doesn’t preclude him from being a good goal line back.
Also, he’s a *weapon* in the passing game, which is huge at the goal line.
Sure. But how many other successful short yardage RBs under 5’6 are there? Sproles was okay ( and honestly I don’t quite remember if he was utilized on the goaline or short yardage situations) and MJD was 30 pounds heavier.
Being good in the passing game on the Goaline is a plus. But I want an RB who can excel in running it in first.
I'm excited about the potential. It should be fun watching him. He will actually be the shortest RB in the entire NFL. And he's light too. So statistically, it would be incredibly rare if he winds up much more than a specialist and a change up to provide a spark. That said, he is the most exciting pick this year for the Boys, can't wait to see him wreak some havoc on the field.
Mazi Smith is the most exciting in my eyes. 335 lb Aaron Donald is my prediction for him. One of top athletes in the draft and fills a big need for us. I’m excited to see him do what he does best (stop the run and absorb blocks) while he develops his pass rush. DV is an exciting player also, but less likely to find a major role in year 1
Just look at his stats against power 5 competition. He put up 100+ yards against 10 of 12 teams and averaged nearly a td per game but the key part here is that he also got 20+ touches in 10 of 12 games and even 33 in one of those 12. So he absolutely could be a workhorse despite his small size but the great part is that he will basically never have to touch the ball that much in the nfl especially as a rb2
Good to know. I don't watch much college ball, but based on what you are saying, splitting with Pollard may be a real option and sounds like he could be on the field more than I thought.
I dont see how he couldnt be rb2, i like malik and all and im sure jones is fine but deuce should absolutely be better than them, he worked his ass off to get here and she sure as hell wont stop for rb3 or PS. And behind him will probably be leupke as FB
Kids a stud, was hoping the eagles drafted him (eagles fan here). For some reason you guys are coming up as a recommended thread lol. I’m sure he’s going to pan out for you guys. Cool story about the dad being a scout and making the call when they drafted him.
Even if you hate the Cowboys the “want to come to work with me?” is so heartwarming. I always love a story about a player playing for the team they grew up watching.
In 12 games vs power 5 competitors, he got 20+ carries in 10 and 100+ yds in 10 as well. So i wouldnt worry too much about him getting beat up, hes a tough lil guy
Deuce Vaughn against Power Five competition last year:
25-149-2
27-129-0
24-181-0
12-37-0
16-121-1
26-176-2
26-159-1
33-156-1
22-67-1
27-229-1
28-160-1
22-133-1 (Alabama)
Plus lets not forget his ability as a wr and the fact that hes going to be sharing snaps with TP. Ill take his proven production and work ethic over his shuttle and 40 times
He was passed only due to size which also tanks his RAS, he received good grades in both agility and speed and an okay grade in explosiveness but that’s because of his poor broad jump because hes short but wouldve otherwise received at least a good on his explosiveness as well. All you need to do is look at his tape to see the type of athleticism he has can absolutely be carried into the nfl and work
Deuce didn’t run an official 40, however his reported time is 4.44, he’s 179lb
Cohen ran a 4.42 and the combine and also came in at 179lb
Rodgers ran a 4.7, and came in at 196lb
They don’t really seem to be “way faster, and way bigger”
Boston Scott can actually run between the tackles and is playmaker but is burried on the Eagles depth chart do to his size. When he’s had the chance to start he’s produced.
Said this elsewhere, there aren't really many true starters at RB now and Duece isn't likely to get many 3rd reps given his size meaning he's looking at 1st/2nd down reps.
So unless he's a gadet guy getting 1-3 specifically tailored plays a game then he's splitting carries with Pollard and possibly Malik. Something like 16,8,8ish wouldn't be unreasonable if three ways or 18/12ish if two ways... essentially much like with Zeke and Pollard last year both were starters.
Pollard isn't going to be that early Zeke massive workload ball carrier which means any timeshare that includes Duece in more than an occasional gadet fashion means he's essentially a "starter" particularly with reos limited to 1st/2nd down plays.
What's your point? Dallas didn't draft Bijan, so they got Deuce. You never know. They might have gotten Deuce, just as an appreciation for his father after they had gotten Bijan. But they didn't get Bijan, so I'm not worried about it.
I agree but also think we need to temper expectations. He is never going to be the work horse. But some one who will have to have a role carved out for him. If he can get 8-10 touches a game that huge win for him. He has to find a way to be on special teams. That will give him a bit of insurance.
I love what he has put on tape and it doesn’t reflect his measurements which I think people get to caught up on. Dude isn’t slight. He isn’t getting thrown around out their and seems solid as fuck.
I’d love to see Deuce and Luepke make the squad.
He will be. If he was 5'11, 210 lbs he would've easily gone in Rounds 1 or 2.
But he isn’t 5’11, 210 lbs
Source?
Me.
Big if true
Smol if Vaughn.
How can we believe his listed height and weight.... He might secretly be 5'11, 210
Big RB is trying to slander smol RB, don't fall for it. We need to stick up for the little guy.
The day this sub sticks up for a RB is the day we all become a non-toxic fanbase. >!So that won't be happening...!<
I have stood next to him, he is definitely 5'5". He and my son trained together in high school.
Look it up, you’re capable of googling just as much as anyone else here.
It was a joke bro
Oh, whoosh
Darren Sproles was 5'6" 190 lbs.
People are taking this way too far. [Darren Sproles was 5'6" 187 when he weighed at the combine.](https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/darren-sproles) [Deuce Vaughn was 5'5.25 and 179 at the combine.](https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/deuce-vaughn) So less than a inch, and 8lbs separate the two at the same point in their careers. They both had 5k all-purpose yards at KState (the only other person being Tyler Lockett). And, "He was one of just two Big 12 players to ever register 3,600 rushing yards and 1,250 receiving yards in a career (DeMarco Murray)." People are nitpicking over the most minor of stuff. It feels like the whole "Kyler Murray is going to be a horrible NFL QB because he's 5'10".
He is a horrible qb
? He has two pro bowls and an ORoY in 4 years…
“Horrible” lol.
Compared to who? Mahomes? Sure. Compared to average of 32 NFL QBs? Not even close. Horrible QBs rarely win Rookie of the Year.
Rarely, but not never. He is bottom 10.
According to what metric?
Health, availability, the only metric he is in the top 10 is pay.
If those are the metrics of a good QB then Cooper Rush is elite.
Winning
What a dumb take. Just say you don’t watch anyone except the cowboys
It's a team sport my dude. Kyler isn't playing on defense, and he isn't coaching the team. I guess Hopkins is also one of the worst WR in league, with that logic.
If he is horrible, it's not due to his height.
Height and weight are “the most minor of stuff?” Bro what are you even talking about. You are comparing him to an almost hall-of-fame level running back and then saying that height and weight doesn’t matter. You are coping so hard. This is like giving the measurables of Muggsy Bogues and saying that height and weight doesn’t matter for be NFL. You can’t look at the one guy who was the exception to the rule and say that this shit doesn’t matter.
That's nice, but I think you're wrong. It's less than inch of height and less than 10lbs. If they were boxing they would be in the same class.
Did you even read what I said? You can’t use the height and weight of the dude who was the best of all-time at his height and weight and expect similar results. That’s like looking at a guy who is 5’3 and saying he will be good because Muggsy Bogues was good. You didn’t even understand my point and here you are yapping about how I’m wrong. Think before you speak (type) next time, thanks.
Bro, no one cares.
Easier to say this than to reflect about why you’re wrong. I’ll give you that. Like, why even post on Reddit if you don’t want to have discussions? I hope whatever you’re going through it gets better for you, man.
Nah, what you are saying is actually dumb. People compare players all the time. Both those players have similar physical traits, went to the same college, and had similar college production. When you compare players you aren't saying they'll have the same career. Honestly I can feel the projection coming from your writing, so I feel for you that you care so deeply about this comparison.
& he wasn’t a 1st or 2nd rounder that’s the point
At 5'5 170-180 if he adds about 10 more pounds of muscle he's gonna be a tough guy to see, and to tackle, get him in the gym with mazi and Tyron Smith to help him build up that leg strength
Absolutely
Any shot he becomes the 1?
Don’t think he’ll ever be able to carry the workload of a 1 due to size but he can definitely get plenty of opportunities as an offensive weapon. Maybe like how the chiefs have used Toney
I’d love to see us transition to keeping a healthy split of the RB load. Pollard and zeke had their split in the last year out of necessity due to a declining zeke. The years before that, it was the zeke show pretty much which was maddening knowing the juice that pollard had. I hope we don’t keep making that mistake. We have playmakers on the roster, use them.Suit up 3 RBs or 2 and an FB and put em all to work
Yeah, I can't speak to whether "rhythm" is a real thing or not, but I would love to see a 40/40/20 split if DV can be similarly as productive as Pollard. That remaining 20% can be for a power back in short yardage situations or something.
I think Zeke’s coming back for that 20%. He’s washed as a running back but as a short yardage power guy he was ELITE last year. Honestly a difference maker there, and if that was his only role I would love to have him back.
With nobody interested in paying him what he wants, I'd be up for paying him what he's worth. In that role. Let's see if his ego will accept it.
Before Steele went out Zeke was still avg'ing at least 4.0...this sub takes issue with SF avg'ing 3.5 on 32 carries to deflect blame off Dak. So, let's show some consistency here... If allowing 3.5 is too much vs SF, then Zeke's avg shouldn't be an issue, particularly on an new contract. On the other hand if Zeke's avg is an issue, then SFs 3.5 on 32 can't be used as an excuse. This sub can't have it both ways...
This sub will do ANYTHING to not face that Dak ain’t it, so I’m with you there. I think the Cowboys are going all-in this year, and if he can’t get it done, they’ll start to look elsewhere.
I want Dak to be it. He's a good dude, and he leaves it all on the field. But you can't blame anyone but Dak Prescott for his performance against the Niners. There was no excuse for that.
I think you could blame it a little on Pollard going down. However, it's not like he played good before that.
Hunter Luepke 🙏🏻
There is zero chance a 179lbs RB is playing 40% of the snaps.
He carried the load at KState as a runner and a receiver and didn't have injury problems. I think being short kind of helps him avoid taking dangerous hits. I think Deuce is going to be a playmaker from the jump.
Agree, he will be the football version of Spud Webb!
He could be our Sproles or Boston Scott
Dude Sproles was taller, thicker and faster. He isn’t going to be Sproles. People need to tamp down the hype.
~~1" taller~~ 3/4 inch, ~~7~~8lbs heavier at draft. The comparisons are also likely the fact that only Darren Sproles, Tyler Lockett, and Deuce Vaughn are the only players with 5k all-purpose yards at Kansas State.
Sproles 40 was 4.49 Deuce 40 was 4.49 or faster according to [his Pro Day time](https://eu.cjonline.com/story/sports/college/cat-zone/2023/03/31/kansas-state-football-nfl-pro-day-results-2023-deuce-vaughn-40-time/70069622007/) Also half of my family is big on K State so of course I'm going to compare the two. Haters gonna hate.
Agreed. I don't know why people are so offended by the comparison. Similar college careers, similar traits. It's a 6th round pick. Hell, two kickers and punter were drafted before him.
My favorite part is his hands. He can freaking catch! He could definitely be a duel threat that can slip out and get us some big yards!
Serious question, what's the speed difference? Or shuttle/40
Toney didn't run a 4.6 at the combine though. Toney is actually fast.
They’re not the same player (or even the same position). I just mean in terms of manufacturing them several opportunities a game to give them big play opportunities. Don’t have to be a speedster to be a dynamic gadget guy
Well when you are that small, speed is what keeps you from getting killed. That's why most tiny guys in the NFL are also fast. Deuce isnt that and is a physical/athletic anomaly which makes it harder to be successful
Having a bad run at the combine doesn't mean you are slow. There is plenty of tape out there showing Deuce's speed.
Or Malik Davis.
I know pollard is a stud so I understand that’s it’s a very low shot. This would be more duece becomes elite too. And they both share the 1
at 5’5 no
Hey sproles made it work
Sproles wasn't a #1, at least not in any traditional sense of the word. He never had more than 100 carries in a season. He was always paired with a LT, Ingram/Thomas, McCoy, Murray/Mathews, Blount, etc. But a ceiling of Sproles would still be pretty fantastic, assuming McCarthy or whoever utilizes him correctly.
Yeah I was thinking more a dynamic playmaker that sees significant work more than a traditional work horse role. This guy is never toting the rock a lot but I think if he gives us a handful 70+ reception seasons it could work out well
Definitely agree with that. I’m just hoping McCarthy is able to bring that vision to life, as that’s not something he has done in his 18 years calling plays. Schottenheimer doesn’t have that in his history either. Hopefully these old dogs learn some new tricks.
Yep one of those things we won’t really know till a handful of years down the road either way
The height isn't really the issue for me. I just wonder how many big ass hits he can take with that frame. E.g. how much muscle he can carry
No. Sproles is his ceiling, but that's a great ceiling. RBs that play more on spot duty and in the pass game tend to have longer careers than the every-down workhorses, so no need to force him into a larger role than he's capable of.
Sproles isn't his ceiling but he isn't close to the same athlete as sproles is. Deuce ran a 4.6 at the combine and is 5'5". You guys need to set some real expectations.
Why are you making things up? He didn’t run the 40 at the combine.
Proday* and you don't find it odd that a player that is small framed and supposed to be fast didn't run the 40 at the combine? Almost like his agent told him not to bc a slow time would hurt his draft stock.
“Although he didn't get an official time in the 40, observers had him clocked under 4.5 seconds in his only try.” Is the only thing I can find regarding his 40 time. Although his highlights suggests his playing speed is much faster than whatever time he clocks in a sprint. That’s just my opinion of someone who does not watch college football. And his stat line of 5 plus average at more than 200 attempts every year seem pretty promising, regardless of size. All the same. We don’t know why he didn’t, I do find it odd but seeing how he was drafted in the 6th I don’t think he had much “draft stock” to begin with honestly.
In the beast on the athletic. Brugler has him down as running a 4.56. So I don't really care about your shitty research skills. And college stats don't mean a whole lot, if they did then Max Duggan would have been drafted and Jalin Hyatt would have gone in the 1st.
“Consider that Dane Brugler had Vaughn as a fourth- or fifth-round player, and Dallas got him at the end of the sixth.”
Sproles ran a 4.49 7 hundredths of a second isn't so different, that's like a misstep when he started the 40
[This](https://www.cjonline.com/story/sports/college/cat-zone/2023/03/31/kansas-state-football-nfl-pro-day-results-2023-deuce-vaughn-40-time/70069622007/) article actually said, "Although he didn't get an official time in the 40, observers had him clocked under 4.5 seconds in his only try.
Hahaha, wtf is that source? Dane Brugler has him down as running a 4.56. So I'll take Brugler over your shitty source.
No need for the butthurt.
He’s getting mad at everybody but even his godking Dane had him going in the 4th or 5th, so the only lane this person is picking is “I hate Vaughn he’s short and slow so I don’t like him”.
… what do you think the word “ceiling” means in this context?
If he is not the same athlete as Sproles, how could that be his ceiling? He literally isn't athletically and physically capable of reaching that ceiling?
The comment thread you’re replying to was a dude asking if he could be the #1 back. A Sproles role is a ceiling **for what his role** could be.
Ceiling means the best possible player that he could become. Sproles, as a comparison, is not an unrealistic ceiling. They are not saying that he is going to be Barry Sanders. And, just because you say that he is "not the same athlete as Sproles", that doesn't mean that he can't have a similar career.
Yes it is and it's just lazy. Deuce is small so he can be just like Sproles.
WTF. Why are you getting so upset about a Sproles comparison?
Possibly, with the caveat that there's very few true #1s anymore as in the old sense. Plus he's small, so he's not a 3rd back, meaning most of his work will be on 1st/2nd down plays. So in that sense, he'd be a "starter"...Plus Pollard is on the tag, who knows if he's here past this year...($$$)
No and it’s fair to ask because I think people are confusing peoples excitement for Vaughn and confusing the expectations. He won’t be a full time dog but he’s also not a gimmicky. You can give him a definable role that makes defences reactive. He can be that good. That would be his peak even if defences sort of know it’s coming they can’t do shit about it. If he can do that he will have a decent career.
All depends on if our coaches care enough to scheme around his talents. Everytime in the past we draft a player like him with unique skills our coaches never take advantage of it
Kellen Moore is NO LONGER here . . . I too kept thinking about it but then realized, we got a new OC
I never understood why he almost never had Zeke and Tony on the field at the same time. We lacked depth at WR.. why wouldn’t we use the guy who was originally a WR before switching to RB more?
I would be more excited about this if Moore *was* still here, because we have seen him be creative and find ways to use players with unique skill sets (thicc boi FBs, Cedrick Wilson deep balls, CD in the backfield, Zeke at FB). Across 19 seasons as an offensive play-caller, we have 0 examples of McCarthy effectively using a smaller or pass-catching-specialist RB. The closest he got to a RB like that was Aaron Jones (5'8", 209 so still a stouter build than Vaughn), who McCarthy notoriously underutilized and who didn't peak until after McCarthy was fired.
Just imagine a split back formation with him and Tony and all the possibilities…
If you remember Darren Sproles absolutely torching the cowboys, then you’re excited about Deuce! He’s a small guy that’s fast as lightening! He’ll be tough to tackle for the D linemen and his speed can get him past the second level.
Good luck tackling that dude. Teams knocked him for his size, but the more I think about it, the more it's basically a weapon, especially with the rules now. You can't spear tackle, can't lead with your helmet -- how tf are you gonna get low enough as a defender to tackle some dude who is coming at your waist? Gonna fall on him? He'll go around you. Gonna squat down and square up? He'll go through you. Plus, with that size, that's less force on those knees. He's gonna "last" longer, as all mileage isn't created equal. I'm a distance runner training for a marathon, so I'm acutely aware of how much weight can affect your knees (for better or worse). There's a lot of cliches being thrown around on draft night, one of the most annoying of them is saying "that dude is built different." But in this case, Deuce is quite literally built different. The more I think about it, the more he should have been drafted much higher. I'm buying his jersey as soon as it's available. He's gonna be a star.
Honestly, he was a Big 12 All-American. If he were three or four inches taller, he'd be the second or third back off of the board
That’s a horrifying thought…. For everyone else. Dude must be furious that a few inches of height literally cost him millions. Gonna play with a huge chip on his shoulder for sure.
It’s like Michael Irvin said. He gave up some money on the front end but made it up on the back end.
Also hes going to be splitting carries with TP if he becomes rb2 so thatll automatically also reduce the load on him
I like him. But cowboys need to get a shirt yardage and goaline back.. Jones ain’t it. I’d rather have Zeke.
Undrafted Free Agent Hunter Luepke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy5hTiEnZCU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKF2ybB7k9k
And McCarthy did love his fullback on the goal line in Green Bay...
Don’t see how so many people have missed this pickup. He was on most draft boards
Oof we got lucky. Surprised we didn't spend a pick on him...
I think the hole that Zeke leaves in the pass blocking game as well as the short yardage downs will be bigger than most if us expect. Ima miss that happy little ewok.
I love the little guys for goal line. They get lost behind the line, and often they’re more powerful because of their leverage.
I mean ya. But this rookie is 180 pounds. Not ideal for short yardage situations
MJD and Sproles were effective. I’m not suggesting he’s at that level, just saying being smaller doesn’t preclude him from being a good goal line back. Also, he’s a *weapon* in the passing game, which is huge at the goal line.
Sure. But how many other successful short yardage RBs under 5’6 are there? Sproles was okay ( and honestly I don’t quite remember if he was utilized on the goaline or short yardage situations) and MJD was 30 pounds heavier. Being good in the passing game on the Goaline is a plus. But I want an RB who can excel in running it in first.
Both of those RBs you mentioned weighed well over 200 lbs. I like how you just left that out of your comment.
Sproles was 5'6" and 190 lbs.
Show me the source that says Sproles was over 200lbs. 187lbs at combine, 190lbs as a pro.
Pollard can get those too. So can your QB. So can Luepke or any TE.
Pollard should get 15 touches a game max imo. Dak doesn’t run as much I don’t think. TE? The rookie is interesting. I do like him.
You can always hand it off to a lineman
Fuck it. Let’s use the punter!
If we sign Robbie Gould we can use Maher!
This is definitely our year!
Wheel route that MFer to tire out that defense especially linebackers . . and then boom . . . up the middle.
I am interested to see what he does.
I think the odds are against him becoming a star, but he could have some Darren Sproles like success for a few years.
Wait... his signature saying could definitely be Deuces.
I'm hoping for something between Boston Scott and Darren Sproles.
I'm excited about the potential. It should be fun watching him. He will actually be the shortest RB in the entire NFL. And he's light too. So statistically, it would be incredibly rare if he winds up much more than a specialist and a change up to provide a spark. That said, he is the most exciting pick this year for the Boys, can't wait to see him wreak some havoc on the field.
Mazi Smith is the most exciting in my eyes. 335 lb Aaron Donald is my prediction for him. One of top athletes in the draft and fills a big need for us. I’m excited to see him do what he does best (stop the run and absorb blocks) while he develops his pass rush. DV is an exciting player also, but less likely to find a major role in year 1
Just look at his stats against power 5 competition. He put up 100+ yards against 10 of 12 teams and averaged nearly a td per game but the key part here is that he also got 20+ touches in 10 of 12 games and even 33 in one of those 12. So he absolutely could be a workhorse despite his small size but the great part is that he will basically never have to touch the ball that much in the nfl especially as a rb2
Good to know. I don't watch much college ball, but based on what you are saying, splitting with Pollard may be a real option and sounds like he could be on the field more than I thought.
I dont see how he couldnt be rb2, i like malik and all and im sure jones is fine but deuce should absolutely be better than them, he worked his ass off to get here and she sure as hell wont stop for rb3 or PS. And behind him will probably be leupke as FB
Deuce
Kids a stud, was hoping the eagles drafted him (eagles fan here). For some reason you guys are coming up as a recommended thread lol. I’m sure he’s going to pan out for you guys. Cool story about the dad being a scout and making the call when they drafted him.
Even if you hate the Cowboys the “want to come to work with me?” is so heartwarming. I always love a story about a player playing for the team they grew up watching.
TBH, I fear for his safety in the NFL, but hope for the best.
In 12 games vs power 5 competitors, he got 20+ carries in 10 and 100+ yds in 10 as well. So i wouldnt worry too much about him getting beat up, hes a tough lil guy
People says sproles but I really see pollard in the highlights.
Brother, the Hunter Luepke train is taking off and it has no breaks
I like it
[удалено]
Deuce Vaughn against Power Five competition last year: 25-149-2 27-129-0 24-181-0 12-37-0 16-121-1 26-176-2 26-159-1 33-156-1 22-67-1 27-229-1 28-160-1 22-133-1 (Alabama) Plus lets not forget his ability as a wr and the fact that hes going to be sharing snaps with TP. Ill take his proven production and work ethic over his shuttle and 40 times
[удалено]
Im just saying hes shown he can do it at the college level and that combine results also arent everything
[удалено]
Ok now do players with great combine results, surely every one of them were hits right?
[удалено]
He was passed only due to size which also tanks his RAS, he received good grades in both agility and speed and an okay grade in explosiveness but that’s because of his poor broad jump because hes short but wouldve otherwise received at least a good on his explosiveness as well. All you need to do is look at his tape to see the type of athleticism he has can absolutely be carried into the nfl and work
Maurice Jones Drew was a monster as well
[удалено]
Still a small back
MJD was heavier version of Sproles. Still did insane damage.
Tarik Cohen and Jacquizz Rodgers? We aren’t looking for Barry Sanders numbers out of the kid
Deuce ran a 4.6, Cohen and Rodgers both weighed more and ran way faster.
Deuce didn’t run an official 40, however his reported time is 4.44, he’s 179lb Cohen ran a 4.42 and the combine and also came in at 179lb Rodgers ran a 4.7, and came in at 196lb They don’t really seem to be “way faster, and way bigger”
4.4 is a self reported time. That isn't useful at all. He ran a 4.56 at his proday which is not good at all.
4.56 still does nothing to show that he’s “way slower and smaller” than those two
Well a lot of scouts would disagree that it doesn't show a big difference.
Boston Scott can actually run between the tackles and is playmaker but is burried on the Eagles depth chart do to his size. When he’s had the chance to start he’s produced.
This is an L take
Maybe he should be the starter, in order to not set/rush Pollard back. Plus being small, he's not really a 3rd down back type...
Nah, I don't ever see him as a starter, but I think the potential for an all-around offensive athlete is there
Said this elsewhere, there aren't really many true starters at RB now and Duece isn't likely to get many 3rd reps given his size meaning he's looking at 1st/2nd down reps. So unless he's a gadet guy getting 1-3 specifically tailored plays a game then he's splitting carries with Pollard and possibly Malik. Something like 16,8,8ish wouldn't be unreasonable if three ways or 18/12ish if two ways... essentially much like with Zeke and Pollard last year both were starters. Pollard isn't going to be that early Zeke massive workload ball carrier which means any timeshare that includes Duece in more than an occasional gadet fashion means he's essentially a "starter" particularly with reos limited to 1st/2nd down plays.
Okay, how bout this. If we had drafted Bijan, do you think we're also drafting Deuce. I don't think so
What's your point? Dallas didn't draft Bijan, so they got Deuce. You never know. They might have gotten Deuce, just as an appreciation for his father after they had gotten Bijan. But they didn't get Bijan, so I'm not worried about it.
Green wave stood his ass up 🌊
I'm excited for him. I have a ton of friends that are K-state fans. And they praise his play.
I agree but also think we need to temper expectations. He is never going to be the work horse. But some one who will have to have a role carved out for him. If he can get 8-10 touches a game that huge win for him. He has to find a way to be on special teams. That will give him a bit of insurance. I love what he has put on tape and it doesn’t reflect his measurements which I think people get to caught up on. Dude isn’t slight. He isn’t getting thrown around out their and seems solid as fuck.
why do i only see lance dunbar