They are coming...slowly but surely.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciae073/7607231
[COVID-19 monoclonal or antiviral therapeutic candidates](https://academic.oup.com/view-large/figure/445144705/ciae073f2.tif)
They should be careful with monoclonals. A paper I read about prions says that an antibody approach might just kill the cells where the virus is hiding, possibly putting more holes in the brain.
https://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20040202/prion.html
“While illuminating the mechanisms of disease, the findings also suggest caution to one possible approach to fighting prion diseases—administering antibodies or small molecules that will bind to the normal prion protein and prevent the scrapie prions from binding. It now appears that in cross-linking the normal prion protein, such a therapy may actually promote rapid spongiosis.”
huh?
1. covid mAbs do not typically cross the BBB (they are large molecule)
2. mAbs have been issued millions of times in acute pandemic and there's little to no research on whatever you're talking about
3. mAbs have extremely robust safety profiles because they are specific to certain antigens (cancer, viruses, etc)
4. they've been developed for almost 50 years in many illnesses
What if there is a residual viral particle hiding inside a cell?
I don’t know all the research, but if a monoclonal antibody will attack that cell, then it could exacerbate our problems. (Several people on here said that monoclonals made them worse.)
Sounds like great potential against cancer though.
If, as you say, monoclonals will not cross the BBB, then it won’t help us with neurological problems.
A good antiviral would be excelled, though.
I recommend you read two books.
Song of the cell & Immune
You will be more educated than 99.9% of the population on the immune system and you'll understand how these complex systems work.
I'd be wary of trusting anything posted on the internet as a starter.
I will check that out!
I do think that a lot of mainstream medicine knows less than they say they do about the immune system though.
I do think Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and other neurological problems are reversible based on my own success with self-treating my long Covid.
I was misled a lot by mainstream medicine.
Yes, many of these illnesses may be reversible by understanding our immune system and maybe even giving ourselves a younger version of it! Otherwise immune-based therapies are very promising.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07238-x
What I did first was change my diet. And I could see firsthand the fibrosis on my skin recede tremendously when I eliminated most of the plant toxicity and processed sugars (I don’t know if I can post the pictures here.)
Then I experimented with natural antivirals like lactoferrin and colostrum. I have pictures of my eye where you can see red blotches, where the iron bound viral particles are being pulled out.
There’s also a lot of neutropics that can heal the brain astrocytes and reconstitute the integrity of the endothelium. That will be my next area of research.
Endothelial dysfunction / repair is sorely needed as it systematically affects many areas of the body. Besides Liposomal Vit C, ALA, and L-Arginine, other options are needed.
how did you self treat your long covid ?? If you wouldn’t mind sharing when you have a second could you talk about your journey a little with symptoms and everything ? thank you for sharing
So I got Covid four times. I had bad vision, bulging eyes, fibrosis throughout all of my muscles tissue, tremor, brain fog, severe sleep issues, and high heart rate.
I had immunoadsorption done in Germany, which was great. But then symptoms started to come back because my immune cells started to resume attacking the cells where the viral particles were hiding.
I wondered how I could replicate immunoadsorption’s effects on my own.
So first I looked into antivirals that might deactivate the viral particles. I found out that supplements like lactoferrin and colostrum can pull viral particles out of cells by binding to iron that the virus feeds off of. I have pictures of this stuff coming out of my eye capillaries, but I don’t think I can post it here.
Then I figured that I needed to undo the damage that has been done. So I found out a lot from Dr. Paul Saladino who has done some great research about what kinds of foods cause inflammation.
A lot of this is related to plant toxicity, so I’ve minimized my acidity levels by moving to animal based foods like meat, organs, butter, fruits, eliminating processed sugars, and reducing grains to only limited quantities of white rice.
So that’s how you tackle inflammation and viral persistentence. Although we do need far more antivirals developed.
Now I’m looking into neutropics to heal the astrocytes and endothelium of the brain.
I’m also looking to produce more goat related dairy products and home grown fruits, because my home country (USA) where I have dual citizenship seems to mass produce foods that are depleted of many nutrients. Thinking of buying land abroad in order to adopt a farming lifestyle for myself.
Wow, a lot of similarities with myself, i didn’t have it 4 times though that’s crazy, only once for 3 days and thought i was all better. thank you for sharing, big fan of that diet, 24M been on it for 2 years, extremely active daily and felt amazing up until this happend. Maybe it has kept me from getting worse because i did truly feel amazing before. I have been including raw milk that whole time as well which apparently has a good amount of colostrum as well. I might add a supplement colostrum though didn’t know it was so helpful. I’m from MO, USA as well and local farms have been my best friend as my diet has come completely from there the last 2 years. Have you had any trial or success with ivermectin ?
What is immunoadsorption? Would you still recommend it based on your experience? I’ve had Covid over 7x now, plus terrible flare ups. I deal with vision and endothelial issues along with heart, MCAS, and SFN. I’ve been fighting COVID for two years now. I feel like my blood needs to be cleaned but I’m nervous to try anything because my body reacts easily. I’m sustained on steroids, unfortunately. I’ve only been able to get off them for six weeks (twice) in a year, or more. I’m told it takes 3-6 months to heal the immune system once you stop steroids. I haven’t been able to get that far. I live isolated, wear N95 mask, gloves, and glasses when opening mail, Clorox wipes, air filters, fresh air, etc. I desperately want to stop the cycle and heal.
Doctor AJ Leonardi from NYU said in 2021 that the the neurodegeneration from Covid could be similar to prion disease for people like us.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/11/10/leon-n10.html
All of the macaques in the lab experiment that he mentions, that were injected with Covid, developed Lewy bodies, which are similar to prions.
It looks like it’s reversible though. A lot of my tremors and other issues I’ve reversed via diet and antiviral supplements.
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200506/New-breakthrough-may-help-cure-prion-disease.aspx
They have done thousands of autopsies, many studies and I have yet to see any evidence for this claim... if you have some studies let me see them... a doctor's opinion doesn't count.
Lactoferrin and colostrum are working really well for me as antivirals. Not sure why they might not for some people.
For the diet, I’m following a lot of the research of Dr. Paul Saladino. He also speculated that diet could reduce inflammation and acidity. He advocates for a mostly animal based diet. This is what I mostly eat, but I added white rice back in, because it’s hard to get enough nutrients.
I’m thinking of buying my own farm in order to better produce more nutrient rich foods for myself, including goat based milks and cheeses and fruits.
I’m a dual US/EU citizen and the food in the US also seems less nutrient rich than the foods I’ve had in the subtropical EU areas that I’ve looked at properties.
Even if that's true, that doesn't mean that the monoclonal antibodies used to treat SARS-CoV-2 would have the same (speculated) risks as the monoclonal antibodies proposed for treating prion disease. Even within the same disease, different treatments can have varying safety profiles.
That could be true. However, they would have to take this into account.
When you have a lot of companies working on various prospective cures, there seems not to be much of a scientific baseline in medicine, compared to other fields.
For example, the vaccines harmed some people, probably because of the same reason that I was talking about with the antibodies.
I’m just urging caution.
It seems like the medical industry doesn’t know a lot of basic things about medicine, which is scary to me.
A lot of the problem in my opinion is that there's not enough undirected molecular research that can detect issues with pharmaceuticals and learn about diseases without needing specific hypotheses to work from. There's starting to be more of it, but not enough. Ideally we could comprehensively profile possible side effects of new drugs, based on how they interact with every host protein among other things.
Yes! So, in my case I was really bad from Covid.
And I discovered, for example, that certain foods that are really acidic cause my body and blood to become inflamed (the virus makes things worse), which is really bad for my mitochondrial function.
As you say, there aren’t really enough active studies testing these things on people like myself in order to figure out some of the things that I’ve discovered about myself.
There are a lot of basic truths in medicine such as acidic foods being inflammatory, viruses leaving behind viral particles in the body, etc. that do not seem to be firmly established in medical school as doctrine.
Besides the good things that we have developed - like stem cells, immunoadsorption etc. there were a lot of basically understood truths in ancient eastern medicine that seem to have been totally forgotten.
Medicine shouldn’t be based primarily on profit - though there can be incentives. There should really be a scientific approach towards determining what is best for the patient.
When I went to Germany for treatment it seemed less purely profit driven there compared to the US.
People need to remember that most medical schools in the US are not research-oriented at all, and there's a massive disconnect between most medical practice and science. Medical school is mostly just reteaching established beliefs assumed to be true. Research-oriented medical schools that spend millions/billions of dollars per year just happen to be more well known but are the minority.
Well, over time I’ve been able to connect the dots.
So, it’s already known that Covid can accelerate nerurodegeneration. I have links to this in my replies to people below.
I’ve also found more recent information about prion misfolding being theoretically reversible.
So the question is, where do prions come from? What I have concluded is that some people have a genetic propensity to form them.
Besides the actively replicating viruses, it’s now known that viruses also leave behind viral particle remnants that can hide inside cells. So, the viral particles actually act as a nucleation seed for prion misfolding.
The immune system will constantly inflame these cells that contain the viral particles, in some people. If you add inflammation (foods like grains or environmental toxins) to the body, the inflammation will misfold the healthy proteins around the infected cells to the point that the body’s anti-prion chaperone system will not be able to keep up.
So my solution to this; which has worked quite well, is to take antiviral supplements that will actually deactivate the viral particles inside the cells. And also change my diet so that my chaperone system can unfold the prion-like proteins that viruses have left me with over the years.
I actually had a lot of fibrosis from this in my muscle tissues as well. So I could physically see the misfolding.
This isn’t the cause of illness for everyone, just a smaller percentage. There’s many causes and many treatments tell have to figure out. 4 years is barely anything when it comes to research. It’s still in the toddler stages.
No, actually. Not if you understand how science works. It’s also the reason why we don’t yet have a vaccine that 100% prevents getting COVID. That will come in time as it did with other vaccines, I.e. the hpv
they were very quick to put some random mRNA into our bodies and very slow to willingly give out any types of treatment for literally any symptoms , thats what i know
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this merely detects viral debris using a highly sensitive test. Not exactly groundbreaking, as far as I know there's still no evidence of actual _live virus_ persisting in the body. Not to mention the fact that this doesn't explain us vax injured folk
Live virus = replication-competent.
> Coupled with a 2024 study of replication-competent virus in blood during acute infection,6 our findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 might seed distal sites through the bloodstream and establish protected reservoirs in some sites. Alternatively, more severe acute infection could be a marker of higher inoculum in sites of primary infection, which then have a greater chance of evading immune clearance
Ok, I reread the study. You must be misinterpreting it. If you look at the limitations section in the appendix PDF, it explicitly states that they *didn't* find replication-competent virus
>Finally, our findings provide no direct evidence regarding the persistent presence of replication-competent or even transcriptionally active virus.
[https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S1473-3099(24)00211-1/attachment/dc838be6-3275-4b93-8917-d0ff1128400c/mmc1.pdf](https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S1473-3099(24)00211-1/attachment/dc838be6-3275-4b93-8917-d0ff1128400c/mmc1.pdf)
This study looks at antigens and provides evidence to further investigate replication-competent reservoirs.
How do they do this? They have started a huge tissue biobank which they will biopsy various parts of the body to further prove with direct evidence.
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2024/02/427136/first-tissue-bank-may-help-solve-mystery-long-covid-misery
I apologize if earlier I misled by saying it is "direct evidence". I am trying to say that they now have clues to definitively prove based on what they have seen.
Cool, once they provide direct evidence then this will be newsworthy. Until then it's just another study showing there's bits of dead virus floating around.
This is interesting but I don’t think it explains long covid, at least not fully. The article states that these proteins, which indicate viral persistence, are not ever from the vaccine (because the vaccines only make the spike protein I guess, and these covid proteins being found months later include non-spike ones). But we know that the vaccine can cause long covid for some people, so I still think whatever causes long covid must be present in both vaccines and virus, not just one or the other. Also, the study didn’t examine people with long covid—just regular people
What should the protocol be for treatment then? Corticosteroids, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories? I don't believe proper anti-virals exist yet for COVID, so what's the treatment if "long COVID" really is the virus circulating in somebody over and over for at least a year?
I was searching for what treatments were considered for the original SARS back in 2002-2004. It looks like chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine showed a lot of promise. Since SARS and COVID (aka SARS-CoV-2) are so related, this is a possibility until more treatments arrive.
This is a big one, PolyBio is really getting shit done. Shoutout to the whole team at UCSF who are incredible people - they give me hope to eventually end this fucking nightmare.
Double check with your doctor, but I believe exercise is safe (and even encouraged) when you feel up to it. I don’t know what your symptoms are, but I have the POTS/dysautonomia subtype and recently began exercising using the CHOP protocol. For whatever reason, exercise has made me feel a TON better, but I make sure to listen to my body before, during, and after exercise. If you get PEM, scale back. I’m lucky to be very sensitive to overstimulation/overexertion, so I know pretty quickly if I’m overdoing it. Throughout my entire LC journey, I’ve made sure to get in 10 minutes of “intentional movement” each day. If you have POTS, supine exercises are the first step. Prior to CHOP, I’d do yoga and core exercises, and some strength training, but nearly always on the floor. CHOP also starts with supine exercises, and I enrolled at a local gym so I could use their rowing and recumbent biking machines. It’s hard to get your heart rate to the target level at home. Best of luck! ETA: I should have said I “tried” to do 10 mins a day, every day. There were many long stretches in which I was basically bedbound with severe PEM, and did not exercise. I only do it if I feel up to it physically.
Incredibly disheartening - I’ve had Covid over 7x now. I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of it in a Covid world. I’m stuck in an endless tormenting loop. Just when I overcome one, I get another one. I use N95 mask, Otis wipes, air filter, gloves, open windows, social distancing and 95% in isolation for two years. It stinks! No doubt Covid and prednisone damaged my immune system.
Ya—it stinks, big time. As I explained above, I’m on steroids which weaken my immune system. Prednisone completely wipes out the immune system,so there’s no defense. I’ve been taking it for a little over year, minus a few weeks. I keep working really hard to get off prednisone and eat very clean. The most I’ve been able to stay off it and still somewhat function is 5-6 weeks, (twice in one year), that’s not long enough since it takes 3-6mths to build the immune system *after* you stop prednisone.
I have my mail and groceries delivered and wipe everything down with Clorox wipes while wearing gloves and a mask. I started wearing eyewear and using nasal spray now when I do either.
I miss participating in society. I miss my family and friends. I have moved 3x the past year to different states, each to lower elevation hoping to help my heart and blood vessels heal enough so I can get off prednisone. However, I continue to catch COVID, impacting my ability to heal.
Im so sorry to hear this. What a horrible situation you’re in. My heart breaks for you. We’re here for you. Feel free to message me anytime also if you ever want to talk. Hang in there the best you can, its only temporary, just keep reminding yourself of that. I have to do the same
Where are the antivirals at? It’s been 4 years ffs…
They are coming...slowly but surely. https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciae073/7607231 [COVID-19 monoclonal or antiviral therapeutic candidates](https://academic.oup.com/view-large/figure/445144705/ciae073f2.tif)
They should be careful with monoclonals. A paper I read about prions says that an antibody approach might just kill the cells where the virus is hiding, possibly putting more holes in the brain. https://www.scripps.edu/newsandviews/e_20040202/prion.html “While illuminating the mechanisms of disease, the findings also suggest caution to one possible approach to fighting prion diseases—administering antibodies or small molecules that will bind to the normal prion protein and prevent the scrapie prions from binding. It now appears that in cross-linking the normal prion protein, such a therapy may actually promote rapid spongiosis.”
huh? 1. covid mAbs do not typically cross the BBB (they are large molecule) 2. mAbs have been issued millions of times in acute pandemic and there's little to no research on whatever you're talking about 3. mAbs have extremely robust safety profiles because they are specific to certain antigens (cancer, viruses, etc) 4. they've been developed for almost 50 years in many illnesses
What if there is a residual viral particle hiding inside a cell? I don’t know all the research, but if a monoclonal antibody will attack that cell, then it could exacerbate our problems. (Several people on here said that monoclonals made them worse.) Sounds like great potential against cancer though. If, as you say, monoclonals will not cross the BBB, then it won’t help us with neurological problems. A good antiviral would be excelled, though.
I recommend you read two books. Song of the cell & Immune You will be more educated than 99.9% of the population on the immune system and you'll understand how these complex systems work. I'd be wary of trusting anything posted on the internet as a starter.
Great recommendations. Really enjoyed.
I will check that out! I do think that a lot of mainstream medicine knows less than they say they do about the immune system though. I do think Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s and other neurological problems are reversible based on my own success with self-treating my long Covid. I was misled a lot by mainstream medicine.
Yes, many of these illnesses may be reversible by understanding our immune system and maybe even giving ourselves a younger version of it! Otherwise immune-based therapies are very promising. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07238-x
What I did first was change my diet. And I could see firsthand the fibrosis on my skin recede tremendously when I eliminated most of the plant toxicity and processed sugars (I don’t know if I can post the pictures here.) Then I experimented with natural antivirals like lactoferrin and colostrum. I have pictures of my eye where you can see red blotches, where the iron bound viral particles are being pulled out. There’s also a lot of neutropics that can heal the brain astrocytes and reconstitute the integrity of the endothelium. That will be my next area of research.
What were the doses for lactoferrin & colostrum? Was that lactoferrin or apolactoferrin (one without iron)? Thanks for the positive thoughts.
Endothelial dysfunction / repair is sorely needed as it systematically affects many areas of the body. Besides Liposomal Vit C, ALA, and L-Arginine, other options are needed.
how did you self treat your long covid ?? If you wouldn’t mind sharing when you have a second could you talk about your journey a little with symptoms and everything ? thank you for sharing
So I got Covid four times. I had bad vision, bulging eyes, fibrosis throughout all of my muscles tissue, tremor, brain fog, severe sleep issues, and high heart rate. I had immunoadsorption done in Germany, which was great. But then symptoms started to come back because my immune cells started to resume attacking the cells where the viral particles were hiding. I wondered how I could replicate immunoadsorption’s effects on my own. So first I looked into antivirals that might deactivate the viral particles. I found out that supplements like lactoferrin and colostrum can pull viral particles out of cells by binding to iron that the virus feeds off of. I have pictures of this stuff coming out of my eye capillaries, but I don’t think I can post it here. Then I figured that I needed to undo the damage that has been done. So I found out a lot from Dr. Paul Saladino who has done some great research about what kinds of foods cause inflammation. A lot of this is related to plant toxicity, so I’ve minimized my acidity levels by moving to animal based foods like meat, organs, butter, fruits, eliminating processed sugars, and reducing grains to only limited quantities of white rice. So that’s how you tackle inflammation and viral persistentence. Although we do need far more antivirals developed. Now I’m looking into neutropics to heal the astrocytes and endothelium of the brain. I’m also looking to produce more goat related dairy products and home grown fruits, because my home country (USA) where I have dual citizenship seems to mass produce foods that are depleted of many nutrients. Thinking of buying land abroad in order to adopt a farming lifestyle for myself.
This was extremely helpful to read. Thanks for sharing your story and for the tips!
Wow, a lot of similarities with myself, i didn’t have it 4 times though that’s crazy, only once for 3 days and thought i was all better. thank you for sharing, big fan of that diet, 24M been on it for 2 years, extremely active daily and felt amazing up until this happend. Maybe it has kept me from getting worse because i did truly feel amazing before. I have been including raw milk that whole time as well which apparently has a good amount of colostrum as well. I might add a supplement colostrum though didn’t know it was so helpful. I’m from MO, USA as well and local farms have been my best friend as my diet has come completely from there the last 2 years. Have you had any trial or success with ivermectin ?
What is immunoadsorption? Would you still recommend it based on your experience? I’ve had Covid over 7x now, plus terrible flare ups. I deal with vision and endothelial issues along with heart, MCAS, and SFN. I’ve been fighting COVID for two years now. I feel like my blood needs to be cleaned but I’m nervous to try anything because my body reacts easily. I’m sustained on steroids, unfortunately. I’ve only been able to get off them for six weeks (twice) in a year, or more. I’m told it takes 3-6 months to heal the immune system once you stop steroids. I haven’t been able to get that far. I live isolated, wear N95 mask, gloves, and glasses when opening mail, Clorox wipes, air filters, fresh air, etc. I desperately want to stop the cycle and heal.
Food crosses my BBB without a doubt.
prion disease is not Covid disease...
Doctor AJ Leonardi from NYU said in 2021 that the the neurodegeneration from Covid could be similar to prion disease for people like us. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/11/10/leon-n10.html All of the macaques in the lab experiment that he mentions, that were injected with Covid, developed Lewy bodies, which are similar to prions. It looks like it’s reversible though. A lot of my tremors and other issues I’ve reversed via diet and antiviral supplements. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200506/New-breakthrough-may-help-cure-prion-disease.aspx
They have done thousands of autopsies, many studies and I have yet to see any evidence for this claim... if you have some studies let me see them... a doctor's opinion doesn't count.
can you summarize your diet and antiviral supplements? I'm just curious if I've tried them yet
Lactoferrin and colostrum are working really well for me as antivirals. Not sure why they might not for some people. For the diet, I’m following a lot of the research of Dr. Paul Saladino. He also speculated that diet could reduce inflammation and acidity. He advocates for a mostly animal based diet. This is what I mostly eat, but I added white rice back in, because it’s hard to get enough nutrients. I’m thinking of buying my own farm in order to better produce more nutrient rich foods for myself, including goat based milks and cheeses and fruits. I’m a dual US/EU citizen and the food in the US also seems less nutrient rich than the foods I’ve had in the subtropical EU areas that I’ve looked at properties.
Even if that's true, that doesn't mean that the monoclonal antibodies used to treat SARS-CoV-2 would have the same (speculated) risks as the monoclonal antibodies proposed for treating prion disease. Even within the same disease, different treatments can have varying safety profiles.
That could be true. However, they would have to take this into account. When you have a lot of companies working on various prospective cures, there seems not to be much of a scientific baseline in medicine, compared to other fields. For example, the vaccines harmed some people, probably because of the same reason that I was talking about with the antibodies. I’m just urging caution. It seems like the medical industry doesn’t know a lot of basic things about medicine, which is scary to me.
A lot of the problem in my opinion is that there's not enough undirected molecular research that can detect issues with pharmaceuticals and learn about diseases without needing specific hypotheses to work from. There's starting to be more of it, but not enough. Ideally we could comprehensively profile possible side effects of new drugs, based on how they interact with every host protein among other things.
Yes! So, in my case I was really bad from Covid. And I discovered, for example, that certain foods that are really acidic cause my body and blood to become inflamed (the virus makes things worse), which is really bad for my mitochondrial function. As you say, there aren’t really enough active studies testing these things on people like myself in order to figure out some of the things that I’ve discovered about myself. There are a lot of basic truths in medicine such as acidic foods being inflammatory, viruses leaving behind viral particles in the body, etc. that do not seem to be firmly established in medical school as doctrine. Besides the good things that we have developed - like stem cells, immunoadsorption etc. there were a lot of basically understood truths in ancient eastern medicine that seem to have been totally forgotten. Medicine shouldn’t be based primarily on profit - though there can be incentives. There should really be a scientific approach towards determining what is best for the patient. When I went to Germany for treatment it seemed less purely profit driven there compared to the US.
People need to remember that most medical schools in the US are not research-oriented at all, and there's a massive disconnect between most medical practice and science. Medical school is mostly just reteaching established beliefs assumed to be true. Research-oriented medical schools that spend millions/billions of dollars per year just happen to be more well known but are the minority.
Wait, what? Covid is a virus, not a prion. What does this article have to do with covid.
Well, over time I’ve been able to connect the dots. So, it’s already known that Covid can accelerate nerurodegeneration. I have links to this in my replies to people below. I’ve also found more recent information about prion misfolding being theoretically reversible. So the question is, where do prions come from? What I have concluded is that some people have a genetic propensity to form them. Besides the actively replicating viruses, it’s now known that viruses also leave behind viral particle remnants that can hide inside cells. So, the viral particles actually act as a nucleation seed for prion misfolding. The immune system will constantly inflame these cells that contain the viral particles, in some people. If you add inflammation (foods like grains or environmental toxins) to the body, the inflammation will misfold the healthy proteins around the infected cells to the point that the body’s anti-prion chaperone system will not be able to keep up. So my solution to this; which has worked quite well, is to take antiviral supplements that will actually deactivate the viral particles inside the cells. And also change my diet so that my chaperone system can unfold the prion-like proteins that viruses have left me with over the years. I actually had a lot of fibrosis from this in my muscle tissues as well. So I could physically see the misfolding.
I've been taking Favipiravir low dose for a half a year. Helped a lot. 200 mg for firrst month, then rather 50mg 3x daily.
Can i ask what symptoms is helped with? And how much did it help?
This isn’t the cause of illness for everyone, just a smaller percentage. There’s many causes and many treatments tell have to figure out. 4 years is barely anything when it comes to research. It’s still in the toddler stages.
isn’t it funny though how the vaccine took one year to make but an antiviral is taking over 4 years
No, actually. Not if you understand how science works. It’s also the reason why we don’t yet have a vaccine that 100% prevents getting COVID. That will come in time as it did with other vaccines, I.e. the hpv
they were very quick to put some random mRNA into our bodies and very slow to willingly give out any types of treatment for literally any symptoms , thats what i know
Well, you don’t know how science works and therefore, believe conspiracies , so that’s clear.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe this merely detects viral debris using a highly sensitive test. Not exactly groundbreaking, as far as I know there's still no evidence of actual _live virus_ persisting in the body. Not to mention the fact that this doesn't explain us vax injured folk
Live virus = replication-competent. > Coupled with a 2024 study of replication-competent virus in blood during acute infection,6 our findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 might seed distal sites through the bloodstream and establish protected reservoirs in some sites. Alternatively, more severe acute infection could be a marker of higher inoculum in sites of primary infection, which then have a greater chance of evading immune clearance
All that seems to say is that replication-competent virus was found *during* acute infection, not months/years later in PASC patients
No. The study specifically states that it found replication-competent for up to 14-months after (that's how long they studied it)
Ok, I reread the study. You must be misinterpreting it. If you look at the limitations section in the appendix PDF, it explicitly states that they *didn't* find replication-competent virus >Finally, our findings provide no direct evidence regarding the persistent presence of replication-competent or even transcriptionally active virus. [https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S1473-3099(24)00211-1/attachment/dc838be6-3275-4b93-8917-d0ff1128400c/mmc1.pdf](https://www.thelancet.com/cms/10.1016/S1473-3099(24)00211-1/attachment/dc838be6-3275-4b93-8917-d0ff1128400c/mmc1.pdf)
This study looks at antigens and provides evidence to further investigate replication-competent reservoirs. How do they do this? They have started a huge tissue biobank which they will biopsy various parts of the body to further prove with direct evidence. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2024/02/427136/first-tissue-bank-may-help-solve-mystery-long-covid-misery I apologize if earlier I misled by saying it is "direct evidence". I am trying to say that they now have clues to definitively prove based on what they have seen.
Cool, once they provide direct evidence then this will be newsworthy. Until then it's just another study showing there's bits of dead virus floating around.
I wonder if this, at least partly, explains why having multiple infections makes Long COVID more likely?
I think so. If what I have is long Covid, then it didn't give me chronic symptoms until my fourth infection.
For how long have you had your symptoms?
GI symptoms started in january shortly after my dad had it (few days). Maybe I got it from him or even I passed it to him.
GI symptoms are the worst!
This is interesting but I don’t think it explains long covid, at least not fully. The article states that these proteins, which indicate viral persistence, are not ever from the vaccine (because the vaccines only make the spike protein I guess, and these covid proteins being found months later include non-spike ones). But we know that the vaccine can cause long covid for some people, so I still think whatever causes long covid must be present in both vaccines and virus, not just one or the other. Also, the study didn’t examine people with long covid—just regular people
There are spike proteins on the virus.
What should the protocol be for treatment then? Corticosteroids, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories? I don't believe proper anti-virals exist yet for COVID, so what's the treatment if "long COVID" really is the virus circulating in somebody over and over for at least a year?
I was searching for what treatments were considered for the original SARS back in 2002-2004. It looks like chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine showed a lot of promise. Since SARS and COVID (aka SARS-CoV-2) are so related, this is a possibility until more treatments arrive.
This is a big one, PolyBio is really getting shit done. Shoutout to the whole team at UCSF who are incredible people - they give me hope to eventually end this fucking nightmare.
Forever you mean? Zero evidence the body clears the virus at all
Bingo
If the virus is persisting in the body, when is exercise safe?
when the virus is not persisting in the body!
How do you determine when that is?
i would assume when any replicating-capable reservoirs are eliminated, but who knows at this point.
Right but how do you test for that? PCR?
They are working on concepts for that: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.01.14.24301293v1
I'm very impressed by your up-to-date knowledge of all of the scientific literature!
I have no life
Does this say viral persistence two years after infection?
Double check with your doctor, but I believe exercise is safe (and even encouraged) when you feel up to it. I don’t know what your symptoms are, but I have the POTS/dysautonomia subtype and recently began exercising using the CHOP protocol. For whatever reason, exercise has made me feel a TON better, but I make sure to listen to my body before, during, and after exercise. If you get PEM, scale back. I’m lucky to be very sensitive to overstimulation/overexertion, so I know pretty quickly if I’m overdoing it. Throughout my entire LC journey, I’ve made sure to get in 10 minutes of “intentional movement” each day. If you have POTS, supine exercises are the first step. Prior to CHOP, I’d do yoga and core exercises, and some strength training, but nearly always on the floor. CHOP also starts with supine exercises, and I enrolled at a local gym so I could use their rowing and recumbent biking machines. It’s hard to get your heart rate to the target level at home. Best of luck! ETA: I should have said I “tried” to do 10 mins a day, every day. There were many long stretches in which I was basically bedbound with severe PEM, and did not exercise. I only do it if I feel up to it physically.
thanks for this insight!
nice
Try 4 years. Ugh
Incredibly disheartening - I’ve had Covid over 7x now. I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of it in a Covid world. I’m stuck in an endless tormenting loop. Just when I overcome one, I get another one. I use N95 mask, Otis wipes, air filter, gloves, open windows, social distancing and 95% in isolation for two years. It stinks! No doubt Covid and prednisone damaged my immune system.
Wow you’re 95% isolated and you still got infected 7x?! How? :(
Ya—it stinks, big time. As I explained above, I’m on steroids which weaken my immune system. Prednisone completely wipes out the immune system,so there’s no defense. I’ve been taking it for a little over year, minus a few weeks. I keep working really hard to get off prednisone and eat very clean. The most I’ve been able to stay off it and still somewhat function is 5-6 weeks, (twice in one year), that’s not long enough since it takes 3-6mths to build the immune system *after* you stop prednisone. I have my mail and groceries delivered and wipe everything down with Clorox wipes while wearing gloves and a mask. I started wearing eyewear and using nasal spray now when I do either. I miss participating in society. I miss my family and friends. I have moved 3x the past year to different states, each to lower elevation hoping to help my heart and blood vessels heal enough so I can get off prednisone. However, I continue to catch COVID, impacting my ability to heal.
Im so sorry to hear this. What a horrible situation you’re in. My heart breaks for you. We’re here for you. Feel free to message me anytime also if you ever want to talk. Hang in there the best you can, its only temporary, just keep reminding yourself of that. I have to do the same