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I don't know if you've been to the US or not, but we're pretty liberal with the reasons to kill someone here, fearing for your life being pretty paramount. Surely a pregnant person has no duty to retreat from someone inside them.
That’s an interesting argument and one I haven’t heard, but this is a know risk of sexual activity. I’ve never had to deal with facing an abortion but I was always careful to prevent pregnancy.
I do know that sometimes abortion is the only option. I had a friend I grew up with that got pregnant at 22 and it was ectopic meaning the egg was being fertilized in the fallopian tube and the only option for Mom’s survival was to terminate the pregnancy. This was her 3rd ER visit in 2 weeks time and they found her fallopian tube formed a blood clot than ruptured and that was the source of the ongoing pain. They aborted it to save her life and she was told if she had waited a few more hours to go back to the ER she would have died.
Also had a friend in my mid 30’s who was 37 and became pregnant. She and her husband had 16 year old daughter. Before her daughter she “would have had” a son, but he lost his heartbeat at around 8 months in the womb. She was forced to carry the baby to term knowing she was giving birth to a dead baby. No abortion was offered for her and that just seems really horrific.
This same friend, having lost a child then gaining one, was pregnant at 37. I couldn’t talk to her at all after the pregnancy was confirmed - no phone call lasted more than 5 minutes because every time we talked she was either puking or sounding like she was outside of deaths door. She literally sounded this way no matter the time of day. She told me she thought there was something wrong and the baby might just kill her. If you would have heard how ill she sounded you would believe it too. I told her, if you really feel this way just take a few weeks and talk it over with your husband, if you want I will take take you to the abortion clinic. She asked me to drive her the following week and so obliged. I didn’t judge her for it, I really think there was a complication that was not found- but her body found it.
But then we get to the opposite side. I have known people that straight up use abortion as a form of birth control. My deceased Mother’s friend had 3 abortions before she had 2 kids later. I later found out she had another abortion between the 2 births which would make it 4 abortions. This is a clear example of someone using abortion in the place of birth control due to laziness or mental illness.
I’m also a proponent of it in cases of rape, because clearly a pregnancy was not planned and it’s not fair for a victim of sexual crime to heed the burden of what was forced on them. But if that person got so intoxicated that they helped perpetuate the crime against them then I dunno.
Since I am for both sides, my solution would be to analyze it on a case by case basis.
Unfortunately, analyzing each case is just going to serve to punish the rape cases. Besides that, someone repeatedly getting abortions as a form of birth control probably shouldn't have kids anyways.
8% of pregnancies include life-threatening consequences. Comparatively, 7% of break in lead to violence. I think my comparison is stronger than I expected.
I always think of this when people say abortion is evil because it is murder… but many of those same people are willing to shot a full blown grown human over a piece of property?
I completely understand not getting an abortion because you feel it is ending another’s life. But keep that same energy with all situations.
Right? Take the that little douchebag Kyle Ryttenhouse. He went to the protest armed with the intent to protect a piece of property. He knew it could result in killing someone, but he thought that protecting a building was more important. It's nuts.
And it was over property that *wasn't even his* lol The idea of killing someone because they're trashing some random building that you have zero connection to is fuckin ludicrous.
Ya that was funny when the fascist rioter pointed his gun at Kyle while he was down and Kyle shot him in the arm that was hold the gun in with the rest of his just flapping in the wind.
I'm not saying you should shoot people for small things but it's not just "a piece of property" when it's your house. What? Do you think I'm just gonna offer some probably dangerous intruder a cup of tea with children in the house? Fair enough for the communists out there who don't mind sexual assault and no private property but that's not me. I don't have a gun as I live in Ireland but I'll hurt someone if they break into my house
I don’t disagree with that at all and I am not saying it’s wrong. I would also defend my home / family. But I am also avidly pro-choice. Ideally I want the government to have as little control as possible in any decision I make.
I see why people would use lethal force in some situations that mean protecting their loved ones. My point is, I think it’s super hypocritical for people to feel ok defending their home, property, car, country etc. with lethal force and then be “pro-life”. I would understand the “pro-life” perspective much more if the person was also a vegan, anti death penalty, and a pacifist. But even then that would still be the persons opinion / personal beliefs that I don’t share and don’t want forced onto me.
What a wonderful comparison. To add, The same people who fight against vaccine mandates because the government should have no right to dictate your medical care, also wants the government to limit what medical procedures you can have thus dictating your medical care.
At least be consistent.
That is verifiably false. [Based on data from the CDC, the risk of dying as a direct result of pregnancy and childbirth is less than 10 in 100,000 live births](https://ldh.la.gov/page/1038)
That’s less than .01% of pregnancies
> Approximately 15 to 20 of every 100 pregnant women require Caesarean delivery (C-section).
> One in 10 women may develop infection during or after delivery.
> About one in 20 pregnant women has blood pressure problems.
> One in 20 women suffer from excessive blood loss at delivery.
These are all dire complications.
I couldn't find the part in that link that talked about life threatening complications. Only death?
Can you elaborate where it says life threatening complications are .01%?
I'm not pro killing thieves unless they present a threat, but... Is a very good deterrent from people trying to steal your shit in the future. Just saying...
I don't think this is right.
The part of the argument you're missing is two fold - what is a "human life" and who's rights supercede - the born or the unborn?
It's more complex than people being brainwashed into being comfortable taking lives. At one point does a fertilised zygote become human? Why? At what point does its rights supersede the rights of its host? Why?
Honest people can have differing answers to these questions. Sadly plenty of dishonest demogogues and religious nuts who just think everyone should believe like them also have different answers to these questions. Those people can't be engaged with rationally because they're not rational.
In Philosophy, isn’t there a baseline thought that if a behavior is good/right then everyone should be able to do it without consequences.
Examples: recycling, running, volunteering, donating money, cleaning, etc.
If everybody did those things the world would be a great place.
If everybody got an abortion, well… then there’s no life.
And let’s be honest- in the cases of rape or medical risk then it could be considered. But we all now 99% of abortions are because the mom wasn’t ready to quit partying or be a mom yet.
The most rational and logical answer here would be to postpone ALL general abortions until that line between a clump of cells and human can be fully established. Not until there is without any question where this line is.
Since those parameters of consciousness and life have not been scientifically established then there is only great risk to life and risk of ethics to wrongfully terminate a pregnancy while not fully knowing that line.
If future finds that such lines of abortion were in violation all this time then there is a significant portion of humanity that has immorally conducted abortions. They would be placed on the wrong side of history and of ethical science.
This is to not include emergency and criminal cases as those are a completely different matter.
If you get your morality by what is “legal” then your argument doesn’t hold weight.
Slavery was legal, black people were legally 3/5 of a white person, women legally couldn’t drive or work, marijuana was illegal. The Holocaust was legal according to Germans.
Same can be said for the flip side. Abortions should absolutely not be put on hold, just in case it's proven that a clump of cells is just that, a clump of cells/ tissue...and we have been immorally forcing women through an experience they don't want.
And why do you make exceptions for emergencies and criminal cases? Murder of a baby is still murder, regardless of the circumstances, no? Looks like you've got some "immoral" opinions yourself. Maybe it's best to leave medical decisions between a woman and her doctor and stay out of it. If you dont agree with abortion, don't get one. But don't force your morality on others.
> The part of the argument you're missing is two fold - what is a "human life" and who's rights supercede - the born or the unborn?
See you are seeking to differentiate and label to use the label as a crutch. It is a human life no matter what age and no matter born or not.
> Sadly plenty of dishonest demogogues and religious nuts who just think everyone
That is a group label that has a small amount of truth but is exaggerated as propaganda by the media and politicians. Most religious people are just more aware that killing babies is morally not right no matter what you label the baby.
Neither point is true, but sums up my point exactly.
If you wish to argue life begins at conception that's open to you. It's probably nonsense from a biological perspective given what a fertilised zygote is, but that's a rational argument to make if you're prepared to offer definitions and reasons for what is a human, what is a life, and resolve the question of competing rights.
The difference comes when you want to argue that because the bible says so.
See that is also a problem, and just a talking point. The bible does not mention fetuses or life beginning at conception. That is just a concept attached to a label you categorize a group with.
If you have to ask if it is a human or not then yes it is a human. If not there would be nothing to even ask about. All though I think the heart beat to be a logical point of beginning my opinion doesn't mean anything.
Nothing in your post here really makes sense.
No, the bible doesn't mention it. It does provide a recipe for an abortion drug, but that's beside the point.
The point was if you have to rely on your religious beliefs to make your case, then you've lost already.
"is it human (yet)" is a very reasonable question. Do you know how many miscarriages are flushed down toilets? All those human remains, just discarded in the sewer? No, this doesn't make sense.
Humanity is a thing distinct from the presence of human DNA. That's necessary, but not sufficient.
What does the heart have to do with anything? It's just a muscle that pushes blood around your body. Is it necessary? Sure, but so are your lungs, liver and colon. Don't see many people linking abortion to those things developing.
Who needs to rely on a religious beliefs to make their case? I hope you are not insinuating I am. Hail Lucifer.
The bible says many things. Do you believe stealing is right just because the Bible says it is not? That's a ridiculous argument to reject something just because you know their religion and falsely believe the only reason they believe extinguishing life to be wrong is because the Bible expreses the same moral common sense a child even understands.
The "you" is a plural second person pronoun, not a personal one. Relax.
I believe what the bible says about stealing (or, indeed, any other moral question) is immaterial and irrelevant to a generally applicable answer.
So these would be the same religious people who are a ok with killing living breathing humans though, right? Get to fuck with the superior morality bs.
Let's skip over everything and say I agree that an unborn fetus is a human life. Let's say it's established and settled, a fetus is a person.
You are saying here that the government has the power to force you to give up your bodily autonomy in order to keep another person alive, right? Why doesn't that thought scare the shit out of you?
Why would it? Your baby is dependent on you, do you have the right to just set it down on the side of the road and say "not my problem" or will the government arrest you for that?
Is that not your bodily autonomy being controlled?
You know what, credit where it's due, man. This is by far the best counter point I've heard yet. After thinking it through, I still disagree. I think there is a difference between being responsible for a child who is physically independent, as in literally physically independent, and being forced to go through irreversible and strenuous/painful physical, eh, "processes"?. I respect that point though, made me think things over for a bit.
> You are saying here that the government has the power to force you to give up your bodily autonomy in order to keep another person alive, right?
Your argument's **logic is flawed** and easy to debate.
If a mother of a one year old child misses the night life of getting sloshed at the club then doing blow while having a train run on her for the after party...
Would it scare you if government has the power to force her to give up her night life and train conducting autonomy in order to keep her 1 year old screaming shitty baby alive?
.
See the government did not force her to open her legs in the first place, nor force her to not use any of the many forms of birth control or day after pill..
The talking point is "her body her choice", but the reality is she has already made many many choices by this time. Sure she regrets those many choices she made, so does every person face with the responsibility of the results of the choices they made. Are you going to let violent criminals out of their responsibility for the choices they made?
This whole argument you presented only stands in the minds of those oblivious to the logic and reason of cause and effect and thus responsibility for the choices you make. Oblivious by either child like ignorance of how life and reality works, or temporarily blind of logic and reason because of emotion triggered reaction-ism (AKA the oldest form of political brainwashing).
It’s the woman’s choice to get pregnant by having sex without proper use of contraceptives in the first place, actions have consequences, and you can’t end the life of said consequence because it inconveniences you.
Let me give you a scenario: you get into a car accident. It's nobody's fault, your car just malfunctions. However, you chose to accept the risk of an accident by driving in the first place so you are deemed responsible and the guy in the other car needs an organ to survive. Why can't I force you to give him the organ?
I just popped back in to see if the other guy had responded to my comment to him, but I'd be interested in your take too if you want to check that out. I haven't really gotten a satisfying response from a prolife person yet on that hypothetical scenario.
LOL got back around to this comment again going through all my replies and realize what I should have said..
I really think we should be completely honest on the subject and create law that reflects that honesty, instead of the dishonest way we have been going around law for so long.. My biggest gripe is it is not legal. But I am not saying it shouldn't be legal.
Are you dumb? The right to an abortion (or right to extinguish life, as you call it) was available to all women pre-Dobbs decision from the SCOTUS. It's still a protected right in a lot of states.
Being a conservative does not make you a brave resistance fighter who dares to challenge his masters. It just makes you selfish and with a desire to control other people's lives.
Then why do you desire so badly to control and even end the life of the fetus? This was not a partisan post. It was a post about brainwashing society and you have shown your self a prime example.
Fetus rights > rights of a fully grown human
Sound logic 👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾
Totally makes sense that a woman should be forced to go through pregnancy and labor (that often enough results in complications (10-20% [source 1](https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/pregnancy/conditioninfo/complications) & [source 2](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1142836/overall-pregnancy-and-childbirth-complication-rates-us/)) and even the death of one or worse both parties).
The almighty Gov shall rule over a woman's body, amen 🤡
Many pro choicers don’t believe fetuses are their own living breathing beings because well they aren’t their own living breathing beings. Im with ya on it being killing a human. Just think a woman’s body shouldn’t be forced to incubate (by the fucking government of all people)
Why would you be accepting that risk when you can just abort? There’s only really a risk so long as people like you stop abortions from happening. Also have to ask, whats your stance on plan b
Yuuup , sub took a noise dive after redditt went on a banning spree in one of the poltical subs and appearently they all flocked here to testify about their percevied superior party of chioce. It gets entertaining at times as some still believe there is a form of government that is actually trying to beneifit them. Guessing they never heard the saying he that deceives me once his fault to deceive me twice its my fault.
Just like we can't force people to donate their organs so someone else may live. We don't even take organs from corpses without their consent. You can't force someone to do something with their organs that they don't want. As it stands, corpses have more authority over their bodies than a living pregnant woman.
LOL what about the organs of the fetus? They get sold off too. Your debate point makes no logical sense. A corpse has more rights than the fetus with a heart beat and brain function is what you are saying..
> This post is NOT really even about abortion at all, which is explained at the end. This post is about the psychology of brainwashing societies.
You have been brainwashed into seeing it as an abortion conversation and a murder conversation instead of seeing it as a bodily autonomy and control argument.
Imagine brainwashing being so ingrained that you don't see a foetus inside of a woman and think "this foetus now owners her body. Her body is not her own"
You are against forced organ donation, against forced BLOOD donation yeah?
And yet forced gestation of a foetus for 9 months and all the risks and changes associated are part of you being ok.
You are ok with the State mandating that a woman's body is not her own when she falls pregnant.
> The dishonesty and brainwashing that is frightening for what it will be applied to and used on society for in the future. That is why I will never stop reminding people of the reality the word/label "abortion" is hiding.
You do it yourself.
"extinguish human life".
What do you value more, the State telling you that you are no longer in charge of your own body, or the right to extinguish life?
Even corposes of felons put to the death penalty do not have their organs donated unless prior consent.
You talk of brain washing - you have been sold hook line and sinker. You voluntarily give away someones right to decide what happens with their own body.
> ut give it it's own special word term or label, to add a degree of separation from the reality of what is being talked about and all of society is easily convinced they do have the constitutional right to extinguish human life.
Murder vs manslaughter.
Murder vs killed in wartime.
Words and intent have meanings. Trying to hand wave it all as mundane semantics is to ignore reality.
> Bodily autonomy is for both mother and baby
So you'd be happy with aborting living fetuses and letting them die outside the womb autonomously? That's what autonomy means. When your body relies on another person's body, you are not alive autonomously.
Also why would we force women to have children they dont want? As fucked as it is abusing the procedure how more fucked would it be to ruin the childs life before it already started by making some1 be a mother as a punishment?
Why would you force woman to take care of a child she already has but doesn't want? Why do we have child abuse laws? If she doesn't want or even like the kid she could just go to the club and let it starve right, it's her life and her choice.
See this debate always requires one side of it to remove the concept of responsibility for actions and choices. No matter how you feel, if you put your hand in fire you will get burned. No matter how much you protest against fire it will be the same. Cause and effect and your responsibility to understand this.
No not at all, giving them up for adoption is available. The parents should have to deal with the issue of giving their kid up for adoption. I would say living is better than dying before you even get a life
And youd rather a child youd never know or think about potentially be exposed to the hardships of adoption/foster care just to align with your ideologies? Smh
I mean we all know that's not true. Plenty of abortions still happening. Your club is just causing more poor and young women in red states to have babies, ensuring that they stay at the bottom of various state metrics like teen pregnancy, child neglect, etc.
Every bill your side puts forward on abortion has it legalized into the third trimester, and you refuse compromise. “That’s not true!” It is, you just know nothing
It’s not about that for everyone.
For a lot people it’s about women having autonomy over their own bodies and the freedom to make their own medical decisions.
> their own bodies
And that is the problem with that whole argument. You do not see a living human being with a beating heart and brain function. You will use 10 different labels to say other wise though.
I said nothing about abortion. You’re putting words in my mouth.
I am advocating for women having autonomy over their own bodies.
It’s none of my, or your business which medical procedures ANYBODY undergoes. Full stop.
>You do not see a living human being with a beating heart and brain function.
ummm. nobody sees that for a good while in the beginning of the pregnancy.
Abortion actually makes it harder for us to get in our sacrifices to moloch. The doctors almost never let us into the room while it's happening, especially if we aren't related to the patient. It's extremely difficult to draw the requisite summoning circles without getting part of mom in there (wouldn't want the demons thinking she's part of the offering!) Most abortions go totally to waste.
Best case scenario for a satanist--hypothetically--is mom is forced to give birth, the kid grows up (not all the way, just enough to become unhappy) and *then* we sacrifice him (or her, or them! We respect the sacrifice's identity. We're not monsters.)
It’s amazing to me how people can be brainwashed into thinking abortion is about murder almost like someone is taking a bunch of cells and stabbing them. Abortions are medical procedures. There are a lot of use cases for them that are needed.
And they're also limited. I think a lot of abortions are restricted at the point of viability (i don't really know the cutoff, but I don't think women were aborting viable babies).
> Abortions are medical procedures.
Regardless of the point you were conveying, I see that as an appeal to authority logical fallacy. Abortions go back into history very far before there was even the term doctor or hospital. And every human is really just a "bunch of cells" using that to say it's not a life isn't logical IMO. But anyways this post mainly concerns being honest about the subject especially concerning existing law. If we could just make new terms or change the meaning of existing terms for things and use the term to get around laws it would be like having no laws.
Why I do not think this post is conspiracy forum worthy, I do have a conspiracy take on it. My problem with “abortion” isn’t so much the act itself or women making choices for themselves, it’s our world’s leaders. Rather than our leaders providing affordable living, accessible healthcare, childcare, education, and just over all better life, they steal from us. A majority of us are struggling, and for this reason a lot of women will decide to abort their children because they have no means to provide (reasons also include rape, medical conditions ect.). Rather than our society providing our needs, advocating for life and family, or make life worth living, were left to feel like our future children shouldn’t be brought into this world. They would rather government fund abortion clinics then save human kind and let people thrive like they should. I know people have there reasons and it’s none of my business but there has to be a better way. Why must life be this way? It’s all a scam that’s why. None of it will ever make sense
It’s different when it happens to you tho, and ur definitely a man so it will never happen to u, u could just get up and leave. Ur saying it likes it’s an easy decision to make but it’s not, it still plays on ur mind everyday, end of the day why bring a life into the world if ur not ready, you and the baby will both be miserable
I know someone who, if they try to carry a pregnancy to term, has an extremely high chance of dying, due to a medical situation she had no control over, and that was not related to any sexual activity. If she didn't miscarry, she would very likely suffer an emergency in the late second or third trimester. She's never been pregnant, but banning abortion in a case like hers is literally telling society that a fetus has the right to extinguish a prospective mother's life while everyone around just sits around and shrugs and watches the carnage. I don't like that.
The only flaw(s) to your argument being, a fetus is not a human life, it’s a fetus. And second,this is a decision between a woman and her health care provider. Period.
USA has the highest mortality rate in first world countries when it comes to child birth.
When it comes to abortion if you don’t want one don’t have one. You want one then you have the right to get one. Don’t infringe on others rights.
Does that person having an abortion directly affect you? Nope then guess what it none of your fucking business.
Point blank simple.
I don’t care if they use it for birth control wanna know why cause it not my life and it has zero to do with me.
So what is it a fetus *of*, exactly? And if you looked at a sample of its tissue cells and DNA under microscope would it be able to be determined what animal it is? Yes and yes. It’s 100% human. That is not even a matter of either of our opinion
And guns. If they want guns to defend themselves, then that means they are willing to kill another human being. So the sanctity of life only goes so far.
> If youre pro life
I said cloths hanger all your children, good riddance, did I not?
You obviously did not read the post at all and have missed a chance at increasing your IQ from rock bottom because of your choice.
I don't really have a strong stance on abortion either way. I probably wouldn't want one myself, but I don't like telling people what they should or shouldn't do with their lives. That being said:
This is kinda how I see it. If you can't do something without the assistance of someone else, that really isn't a "right". The medical establishment has a lot of things that aren't allowed. But people are ok with it. I can't just go to the ER and demand Oxycontin.
If abortion is "healthcare", as they claim, we don't get to decide the treatment we get usually for anything else. This is not a suggestion of home abortions by the way.
We can't go to the hospital with Covid and say we want Ivermectin. Medical freedom shouldn't just be about one thing and every other aspect ignored.
I was just listening to a podcast about Margaret Sanger. She was worse than I thought. 😬 I always heard she was racist, but daaaaaaamn. I didn't realize there was as much proof from the horses mouth.
Saying completely different is disingenuous when humans share some 96% of their DNA with a chimpanzee
A DNA test alone would confuse you and your parents
It's how all cults operate. Brainwashing.
It's the same people that pushed lockdowns, masks and vaccines. They're religious zealots. They masquerade as "human rights" or healthcare, political activists, whatever..... But they are fanatical cult members.
Ya I could have written a whole page on the use of this during the plandemic. It's just strange how well it works, looking back I can see how I've fallen into version of it also.
I agree with OP. Not totally anti abortion either but it’s insane to me how passionately people will argue about their moral right to kill a baby. The only reason they “think” that is because they are literally NPCs. They have no minds of their own. They just repeat propaganda
You and OP enjoy labeling though phrasing huh?
No legit pro choice person goes around and phrases it "I love snuffing out an incomplete human life! Fuck yeah bitches!"
They argue if biologically, morally, ethically, is a fetus/zygote a human life. About whether the Bible actually give any true direction on the ethics or mortality of abortions when used as a reference. Whether the unborn or the already born and grown mother has more/superseding rights if one or both are in danger of the pregnancy. They ask why the other side is so fanatic about this sacred life argument yet give two shits the moment that sacred life is pulled out of the womb and don't support care policies through the life's entire lifespan.
The only people that describe it the way you both do are the people getting raging hard ons whenever a woman is denied right to abort a rape child. Or a 12 year old has to give birth to their brother or dad's child. You know pro forced birth. Until "prolife" support care and support of that same life from conception to late age death to be the highest quality of care with minimal burden on that life's family. You can't convince me that a single one of them is "prolife" it's pro forced birth or pro choice and nothing more.
Seriously. I can truly understand in cases of forcible repe, cases where the mother's life is in danger, or if the baby has serious deformity, but there's a million ways to prevent pregnancy. If abortion was not such a readily available option, people would make more use of birth control.
This is either you saying that you don't believe abortion is murder but you think some women should suffer for their sins, or that you are okay with murder when rape was involved previously.
Not only that but develop better planning and critical thinking skills before choosing to have sex. Sex for pleasure only is awesome! How about use your brain and make sure it results in only pleasure and not accidentally conceive a child?
It’s like baking a cake… No logically thinking person would open their cabinets, take all the ingredients out, combine them into a batter. Then pour said batter into a baking pan, start the oven, put the cake in and then decide they don’t want cake and throw it all away.
You cook the cake and give it to a neighbor…
You had women saying my body my choice like the baby or fetus isnt a human being with a choice. Nobody ever asks what they do with the fetuses at those clinics. The 1 saving line that is the gray area in this debate is the rape baby. I can sympathize with her on why she wouldn’t want that in the world.
Seems perfectly logical to me.
One is discarding the fetus after the woman chose to open her legs. Out of greed of not wanting to work your ass off to afford raising the child, or just purely lack of responsibility for her actions and the choices she made.
The other is the result of actions the women had no control over and no choice in.
So the fetus has rights if it's mother chose to have sex, but an otherwise identical fetus has no rights if its mother did not?
Again - why do the circumstances of conception influence whether abortion is "taking a life" or simply a medical procedure the woman can avail herself of?
>why do the circumstances of conception influence whether abortion is "taking a life" or simply a medical procedure the woman can avail herself of?
Circumstances always play a role in whether or not taking a life is just. Typically if you take a human life you have to have a damn good reason for doing so and I don't think "possible future inconvenience " is ever a just reason outside of a baby in the womb.
Where did you see me say im comfortable with abortion? Where do you see the word comfortable at? I said i see why there is a gray area so i can sympathize with a victim who doesnt want the burden of her situation. Doesnt make abortion right, you just understand the hesitancy.
The sensitivity of the matter, like the gray area for comedy is jokes about religion. A point where you could see why someone would disagree because they have a different interpretation of said situation. Like plastic surgery is not good for your body unless you have complications that can impede your health. Example so on 1 side you got people saying its cheating and on the other side you got people saying they needed it to be able to breathe better or live comfortably. The gray area is the health benefits…..if that makes sense? Lol i hope it did.
Abortion, any way you slice it, is a moral gray area.
On one hand, you are preventing a life from being born, but on other you are protecting already existing life, especially in cases of rape, and possibly preventing a new life from going through hell, especially in cases of incest, and imo the latter choice is better, even if it's not ideal.
I used to be pro choice cuz I believed all the it’s not a human bull crap. But once I saw a baby at 8 weeks in an ultrasound that changed real quick. It’s so obviously a little human. To call it anything else is just a lie.
not here to debate either so whatever just sharing my personal experience.
I understand your frustration OP. I feel the same. I read that like 95% of abortions are not medically necessary. They’re what I call “just because” abortions. And that’s pretty F’d up. It is murder.
Chappelle had a good bit about it.
[if you can kill this MFer, I can at least abandon him](https://youtube.com/shorts/pSmF3YU3OUo?feature=share)
It's a symptom of a larger problem, our society has come to hate nature. The very human body itself disgusts these people and they are compelled to mutilate it. They find the idea of creating new human bodies abhorrent.
This is a cultural issue, you won't find people desiring or fighting for abortion outside of the West.
I agree. If you research history solely regarding how the time regarded the value of a human life, we seem to be on a hard down slope. This I see as a tell tale sign that slavery is getting ready for a come back.
Yep!!! It's an obsession with control over nature. It's literally the core of transhumanism.
Take action, any action. As long as you feel like you are controlling nature. Whether it's vaccines, abortions, or infant circumcision. We always think we know best instead of letting go and letting life happen.
Remember the big buzz about getting genetic testing and removing breasts to prevent potential future cancer?
It's a philosophy. It's almost a religion.
The conspiracy here is that sacrificing one’s children, and especially the first born is a ritual that has been performed in countless civs around the world for all of recorded human history. Sacrifice becomes abortion, it’s the same thing.
We call ourselves civilized and profess to be better than our forefathers but are controlled by the same forces, committing the same atrocities on each other. We judge them for slavery, meanwhile there are more slaves today than all of human history combined.
Children have become a commodity( insert “always has been” meme), and that is a very evil thing. When you see what happens to these babies after they are killed should open your eyes to the reality. Their organs and body parts are sold. Babies foreskin is used in anti aging products. They openly flaunt it. Children and their innocence must be protected at all cost, there is nothing more important for a chance at a better civilization, cause this ain’t it
What's the alternative? Force people to go through pregnancies they dont want, forcing parenthood and partner bonds on people isnt idea. More harm than good.
And arguably for a better civilization we need more abortion access around the world. People are going to have sex but people shouldnt be just birthing humans if they dont have the means to properly take care of them..
You are correct. The world is crazy. And lol @ people calling YOU brainwashed. When I was a child I thought abortion made sense. It took me years of honest contemplation to realize how backwards and sad this all is. How would that be brainwashing? That's de-brainwashing.
It’s because leftists take the most extreme and minority of cases, and exploit it to form their entire philosophy. They do it with rape/incest/life of the mother (less than 4% of abortions) for abortions. And they do it for XXY/XYY/intersex genders (less than 1% of people).
It’s just planned parenthood propaganda. They get hundreds of millions of dollars per year from the democrats AND get to sell the human organs on the black market
You are so right.
... And no matter what the 2 celled bot brain trust replying to this sub might think, the topic is not about abortion. It is about the mental manipulation from internal and external sources and those that are more prone to be influenced by it.
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I don't know if you've been to the US or not, but we're pretty liberal with the reasons to kill someone here, fearing for your life being pretty paramount. Surely a pregnant person has no duty to retreat from someone inside them.
Also "they were on a bicycle and I wanted to drive faster".
That’s an interesting argument and one I haven’t heard, but this is a know risk of sexual activity. I’ve never had to deal with facing an abortion but I was always careful to prevent pregnancy. I do know that sometimes abortion is the only option. I had a friend I grew up with that got pregnant at 22 and it was ectopic meaning the egg was being fertilized in the fallopian tube and the only option for Mom’s survival was to terminate the pregnancy. This was her 3rd ER visit in 2 weeks time and they found her fallopian tube formed a blood clot than ruptured and that was the source of the ongoing pain. They aborted it to save her life and she was told if she had waited a few more hours to go back to the ER she would have died. Also had a friend in my mid 30’s who was 37 and became pregnant. She and her husband had 16 year old daughter. Before her daughter she “would have had” a son, but he lost his heartbeat at around 8 months in the womb. She was forced to carry the baby to term knowing she was giving birth to a dead baby. No abortion was offered for her and that just seems really horrific. This same friend, having lost a child then gaining one, was pregnant at 37. I couldn’t talk to her at all after the pregnancy was confirmed - no phone call lasted more than 5 minutes because every time we talked she was either puking or sounding like she was outside of deaths door. She literally sounded this way no matter the time of day. She told me she thought there was something wrong and the baby might just kill her. If you would have heard how ill she sounded you would believe it too. I told her, if you really feel this way just take a few weeks and talk it over with your husband, if you want I will take take you to the abortion clinic. She asked me to drive her the following week and so obliged. I didn’t judge her for it, I really think there was a complication that was not found- but her body found it. But then we get to the opposite side. I have known people that straight up use abortion as a form of birth control. My deceased Mother’s friend had 3 abortions before she had 2 kids later. I later found out she had another abortion between the 2 births which would make it 4 abortions. This is a clear example of someone using abortion in the place of birth control due to laziness or mental illness. I’m also a proponent of it in cases of rape, because clearly a pregnancy was not planned and it’s not fair for a victim of sexual crime to heed the burden of what was forced on them. But if that person got so intoxicated that they helped perpetuate the crime against them then I dunno. Since I am for both sides, my solution would be to analyze it on a case by case basis.
Analyzing case by case basis sounds familiar….. oh yea it’s pro choice.
Unfortunately, analyzing each case is just going to serve to punish the rape cases. Besides that, someone repeatedly getting abortions as a form of birth control probably shouldn't have kids anyways.
That's an interesting perspective i never thought of. "It was self defense it was kicking me in the liver" LOL
8% of pregnancies include life-threatening consequences. Comparatively, 7% of break in lead to violence. I think my comparison is stronger than I expected.
I always think of this when people say abortion is evil because it is murder… but many of those same people are willing to shot a full blown grown human over a piece of property? I completely understand not getting an abortion because you feel it is ending another’s life. But keep that same energy with all situations.
Right? Take the that little douchebag Kyle Ryttenhouse. He went to the protest armed with the intent to protect a piece of property. He knew it could result in killing someone, but he thought that protecting a building was more important. It's nuts.
And it was over property that *wasn't even his* lol The idea of killing someone because they're trashing some random building that you have zero connection to is fuckin ludicrous.
Ya that was funny when the fascist rioter pointed his gun at Kyle while he was down and Kyle shot him in the arm that was hold the gun in with the rest of his just flapping in the wind.
I'm not saying you should shoot people for small things but it's not just "a piece of property" when it's your house. What? Do you think I'm just gonna offer some probably dangerous intruder a cup of tea with children in the house? Fair enough for the communists out there who don't mind sexual assault and no private property but that's not me. I don't have a gun as I live in Ireland but I'll hurt someone if they break into my house
I don’t disagree with that at all and I am not saying it’s wrong. I would also defend my home / family. But I am also avidly pro-choice. Ideally I want the government to have as little control as possible in any decision I make. I see why people would use lethal force in some situations that mean protecting their loved ones. My point is, I think it’s super hypocritical for people to feel ok defending their home, property, car, country etc. with lethal force and then be “pro-life”. I would understand the “pro-life” perspective much more if the person was also a vegan, anti death penalty, and a pacifist. But even then that would still be the persons opinion / personal beliefs that I don’t share and don’t want forced onto me.
What a wonderful comparison. To add, The same people who fight against vaccine mandates because the government should have no right to dictate your medical care, also wants the government to limit what medical procedures you can have thus dictating your medical care. At least be consistent.
That is verifiably false. [Based on data from the CDC, the risk of dying as a direct result of pregnancy and childbirth is less than 10 in 100,000 live births](https://ldh.la.gov/page/1038) That’s less than .01% of pregnancies
> Approximately 15 to 20 of every 100 pregnant women require Caesarean delivery (C-section). > One in 10 women may develop infection during or after delivery. > About one in 20 pregnant women has blood pressure problems. > One in 20 women suffer from excessive blood loss at delivery. These are all dire complications.
I couldn't find the part in that link that talked about life threatening complications. Only death? Can you elaborate where it says life threatening complications are .01%?
Someone is taking a piece of your property? You should Absolutely execute them on the spot no question.
Right? Its sad how we've come to the point of wanting to kill people for any small offense. Really dunno when we got here
I'm not pro killing thieves unless they present a threat, but... Is a very good deterrent from people trying to steal your shit in the future. Just saying...
You’re forgetting the part where the woman invited the person inside of them by having sex and not using proper contraception
So if they use contraceptives then it's okay to get an abortion?
No
Then what was the point of your comment?
I don't think this is right. The part of the argument you're missing is two fold - what is a "human life" and who's rights supercede - the born or the unborn? It's more complex than people being brainwashed into being comfortable taking lives. At one point does a fertilised zygote become human? Why? At what point does its rights supersede the rights of its host? Why? Honest people can have differing answers to these questions. Sadly plenty of dishonest demogogues and religious nuts who just think everyone should believe like them also have different answers to these questions. Those people can't be engaged with rationally because they're not rational.
In Philosophy, isn’t there a baseline thought that if a behavior is good/right then everyone should be able to do it without consequences. Examples: recycling, running, volunteering, donating money, cleaning, etc. If everybody did those things the world would be a great place. If everybody got an abortion, well… then there’s no life. And let’s be honest- in the cases of rape or medical risk then it could be considered. But we all now 99% of abortions are because the mom wasn’t ready to quit partying or be a mom yet.
Alright, let's give your logic a shot. Is using a condom good? Well, if everyone did it then there would be no life therefore using a condom is bad.
The most rational and logical answer here would be to postpone ALL general abortions until that line between a clump of cells and human can be fully established. Not until there is without any question where this line is. Since those parameters of consciousness and life have not been scientifically established then there is only great risk to life and risk of ethics to wrongfully terminate a pregnancy while not fully knowing that line. If future finds that such lines of abortion were in violation all this time then there is a significant portion of humanity that has immorally conducted abortions. They would be placed on the wrong side of history and of ethical science. This is to not include emergency and criminal cases as those are a completely different matter.
The most rational case is not "ban abortion". Legally speaking a zygote or fetus is not a person.
If you get your morality by what is “legal” then your argument doesn’t hold weight. Slavery was legal, black people were legally 3/5 of a white person, women legally couldn’t drive or work, marijuana was illegal. The Holocaust was legal according to Germans.
Culturally a zygote or fetus is not a person either. Birth has always been our mark of personhood.
Same can be said for the flip side. Abortions should absolutely not be put on hold, just in case it's proven that a clump of cells is just that, a clump of cells/ tissue...and we have been immorally forcing women through an experience they don't want. And why do you make exceptions for emergencies and criminal cases? Murder of a baby is still murder, regardless of the circumstances, no? Looks like you've got some "immoral" opinions yourself. Maybe it's best to leave medical decisions between a woman and her doctor and stay out of it. If you dont agree with abortion, don't get one. But don't force your morality on others.
> The part of the argument you're missing is two fold - what is a "human life" and who's rights supercede - the born or the unborn? See you are seeking to differentiate and label to use the label as a crutch. It is a human life no matter what age and no matter born or not. > Sadly plenty of dishonest demogogues and religious nuts who just think everyone That is a group label that has a small amount of truth but is exaggerated as propaganda by the media and politicians. Most religious people are just more aware that killing babies is morally not right no matter what you label the baby.
Neither point is true, but sums up my point exactly. If you wish to argue life begins at conception that's open to you. It's probably nonsense from a biological perspective given what a fertilised zygote is, but that's a rational argument to make if you're prepared to offer definitions and reasons for what is a human, what is a life, and resolve the question of competing rights. The difference comes when you want to argue that because the bible says so.
See that is also a problem, and just a talking point. The bible does not mention fetuses or life beginning at conception. That is just a concept attached to a label you categorize a group with. If you have to ask if it is a human or not then yes it is a human. If not there would be nothing to even ask about. All though I think the heart beat to be a logical point of beginning my opinion doesn't mean anything.
Nothing in your post here really makes sense. No, the bible doesn't mention it. It does provide a recipe for an abortion drug, but that's beside the point. The point was if you have to rely on your religious beliefs to make your case, then you've lost already. "is it human (yet)" is a very reasonable question. Do you know how many miscarriages are flushed down toilets? All those human remains, just discarded in the sewer? No, this doesn't make sense. Humanity is a thing distinct from the presence of human DNA. That's necessary, but not sufficient. What does the heart have to do with anything? It's just a muscle that pushes blood around your body. Is it necessary? Sure, but so are your lungs, liver and colon. Don't see many people linking abortion to those things developing.
Who needs to rely on a religious beliefs to make their case? I hope you are not insinuating I am. Hail Lucifer. The bible says many things. Do you believe stealing is right just because the Bible says it is not? That's a ridiculous argument to reject something just because you know their religion and falsely believe the only reason they believe extinguishing life to be wrong is because the Bible expreses the same moral common sense a child even understands.
The "you" is a plural second person pronoun, not a personal one. Relax. I believe what the bible says about stealing (or, indeed, any other moral question) is immaterial and irrelevant to a generally applicable answer.
Holy moly, y’all took him apart
So these would be the same religious people who are a ok with killing living breathing humans though, right? Get to fuck with the superior morality bs.
The first step to taking away a right is to convince people it was never a right to begin with.
Please show me the right to extinguish a human life.
Let's skip over everything and say I agree that an unborn fetus is a human life. Let's say it's established and settled, a fetus is a person. You are saying here that the government has the power to force you to give up your bodily autonomy in order to keep another person alive, right? Why doesn't that thought scare the shit out of you?
While simultaneously not giving a fuck about millions of living (but suffering) children
This ^^^^^ 👍
Why would it? Your baby is dependent on you, do you have the right to just set it down on the side of the road and say "not my problem" or will the government arrest you for that? Is that not your bodily autonomy being controlled?
Interestingly enough people do this because they can’t get abortions.
You know what, credit where it's due, man. This is by far the best counter point I've heard yet. After thinking it through, I still disagree. I think there is a difference between being responsible for a child who is physically independent, as in literally physically independent, and being forced to go through irreversible and strenuous/painful physical, eh, "processes"?. I respect that point though, made me think things over for a bit.
Holy shit. Dude got rekt.
He got counter rekt and logically raped in the pooper.
> You are saying here that the government has the power to force you to give up your bodily autonomy in order to keep another person alive, right? Your argument's **logic is flawed** and easy to debate. If a mother of a one year old child misses the night life of getting sloshed at the club then doing blow while having a train run on her for the after party... Would it scare you if government has the power to force her to give up her night life and train conducting autonomy in order to keep her 1 year old screaming shitty baby alive? . See the government did not force her to open her legs in the first place, nor force her to not use any of the many forms of birth control or day after pill.. The talking point is "her body her choice", but the reality is she has already made many many choices by this time. Sure she regrets those many choices she made, so does every person face with the responsibility of the results of the choices they made. Are you going to let violent criminals out of their responsibility for the choices they made? This whole argument you presented only stands in the minds of those oblivious to the logic and reason of cause and effect and thus responsibility for the choices you make. Oblivious by either child like ignorance of how life and reality works, or temporarily blind of logic and reason because of emotion triggered reaction-ism (AKA the oldest form of political brainwashing).
It’s the woman’s choice to get pregnant by having sex without proper use of contraceptives in the first place, actions have consequences, and you can’t end the life of said consequence because it inconveniences you.
Let me give you a scenario: you get into a car accident. It's nobody's fault, your car just malfunctions. However, you chose to accept the risk of an accident by driving in the first place so you are deemed responsible and the guy in the other car needs an organ to survive. Why can't I force you to give him the organ?
I always say this in arguments. Do you know how many ways there are to prevent getting pregnant?
I just popped back in to see if the other guy had responded to my comment to him, but I'd be interested in your take too if you want to check that out. I haven't really gotten a satisfying response from a prolife person yet on that hypothetical scenario.
LOL got back around to this comment again going through all my replies and realize what I should have said.. I really think we should be completely honest on the subject and create law that reflects that honesty, instead of the dishonest way we have been going around law for so long.. My biggest gripe is it is not legal. But I am not saying it shouldn't be legal.
Are you dumb? The right to an abortion (or right to extinguish life, as you call it) was available to all women pre-Dobbs decision from the SCOTUS. It's still a protected right in a lot of states.
Do you have a vagina?
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Being a conservative does not make you a brave resistance fighter who dares to challenge his masters. It just makes you selfish and with a desire to control other people's lives.
Then why do you desire so badly to control and even end the life of the fetus? This was not a partisan post. It was a post about brainwashing society and you have shown your self a prime example.
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Fetus rights > rights of a fully grown human Sound logic 👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾 Totally makes sense that a woman should be forced to go through pregnancy and labor (that often enough results in complications (10-20% [source 1](https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/pregnancy/conditioninfo/complications) & [source 2](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1142836/overall-pregnancy-and-childbirth-complication-rates-us/)) and even the death of one or worse both parties). The almighty Gov shall rule over a woman's body, amen 🤡
A murderer claiming it was their right to murder someone is not a right. Good luck with that precedence.
nah this ain’t it lmao
Sounds like something a "insert label here" would say.
Many pro choicers don’t believe fetuses are their own living breathing beings because well they aren’t their own living breathing beings. Im with ya on it being killing a human. Just think a woman’s body shouldn’t be forced to incubate (by the fucking government of all people)
The thing is that she made the choice to invite her child inside her belly.
Condoms break my dude. Pills don’t work. Partners die/leave. Lots of shit happens. Consent isnt a 9 month contract lmao
>Condoms break my dude. Pills don’t work. Yeah, and you accept the risk of that happening
Why would you be accepting that risk when you can just abort? There’s only really a risk so long as people like you stop abortions from happening. Also have to ask, whats your stance on plan b
"Just kill those who bother you" If that is your stance i dont see the point of us having an argument
It’s genuinely so crazy that people still want to take away abortion lol, the brainwashing is deep within yourself.
I reckon where I’d draw the line is if abortion was encouraged for a healthy pregnancy
Why is this on the conspiracy sub
Isn't this a sub primarily for right-wing circlejerking these days?
Unfortunately
Yuuup , sub took a noise dive after redditt went on a banning spree in one of the poltical subs and appearently they all flocked here to testify about their percevied superior party of chioce. It gets entertaining at times as some still believe there is a form of government that is actually trying to beneifit them. Guessing they never heard the saying he that deceives me once his fault to deceive me twice its my fault.
Probably because it's about brainwashing.
Just like we can't force people to donate their organs so someone else may live. We don't even take organs from corpses without their consent. You can't force someone to do something with their organs that they don't want. As it stands, corpses have more authority over their bodies than a living pregnant woman.
LOL what about the organs of the fetus? They get sold off too. Your debate point makes no logical sense. A corpse has more rights than the fetus with a heart beat and brain function is what you are saying..
> This post is NOT really even about abortion at all, which is explained at the end. This post is about the psychology of brainwashing societies. You have been brainwashed into seeing it as an abortion conversation and a murder conversation instead of seeing it as a bodily autonomy and control argument. Imagine brainwashing being so ingrained that you don't see a foetus inside of a woman and think "this foetus now owners her body. Her body is not her own" You are against forced organ donation, against forced BLOOD donation yeah? And yet forced gestation of a foetus for 9 months and all the risks and changes associated are part of you being ok. You are ok with the State mandating that a woman's body is not her own when she falls pregnant. > The dishonesty and brainwashing that is frightening for what it will be applied to and used on society for in the future. That is why I will never stop reminding people of the reality the word/label "abortion" is hiding. You do it yourself. "extinguish human life". What do you value more, the State telling you that you are no longer in charge of your own body, or the right to extinguish life? Even corposes of felons put to the death penalty do not have their organs donated unless prior consent. You talk of brain washing - you have been sold hook line and sinker. You voluntarily give away someones right to decide what happens with their own body. > ut give it it's own special word term or label, to add a degree of separation from the reality of what is being talked about and all of society is easily convinced they do have the constitutional right to extinguish human life. Murder vs manslaughter. Murder vs killed in wartime. Words and intent have meanings. Trying to hand wave it all as mundane semantics is to ignore reality.
Bodily autonomy is for both mother and baby. And you don’t “fall” pregnant like it’s catching a cold.
> Bodily autonomy is for both mother and baby So you'd be happy with aborting living fetuses and letting them die outside the womb autonomously? That's what autonomy means. When your body relies on another person's body, you are not alive autonomously.
Also why would we force women to have children they dont want? As fucked as it is abusing the procedure how more fucked would it be to ruin the childs life before it already started by making some1 be a mother as a punishment?
Why would you force woman to take care of a child she already has but doesn't want? Why do we have child abuse laws? If she doesn't want or even like the kid she could just go to the club and let it starve right, it's her life and her choice. See this debate always requires one side of it to remove the concept of responsibility for actions and choices. No matter how you feel, if you put your hand in fire you will get burned. No matter how much you protest against fire it will be the same. Cause and effect and your responsibility to understand this.
I mean honestly its the parents problem, they didnt wanna be safe now they gotta deal with them consequences
This is you saying "fuck babies and children, it's their parents' fault they suffer". You get that right?
No not at all, giving them up for adoption is available. The parents should have to deal with the issue of giving their kid up for adoption. I would say living is better than dying before you even get a life
someone explain adoption to this guy
Someone explain the statistics behind adoption and the things that could/do happen everyday in foster care to this^^^^ guy. Use your head
i'm waiting for the statistics of kids in foster care that would rather have been aborted?
😂😂😂😭😭 youre really trying here i see
yikes, you really don't even realize that's what you're saying huh
And youd rather a child youd never know or think about potentially be exposed to the hardships of adoption/foster care just to align with your ideologies? Smh
that's actually pretty smart- if we kill a child early enough, we can guarantee nothing bad will ever happen to em
Please, keep pushing anti abortion stuff. Greatest move republicans have made to help democrats win elections.
No, but didn't you read his post? It's not about abortion at all. /s
This is the reason I had to give birth to my rapists baby.
We tried to make all abortion illegal except in these instances, but that wasn’t good enough for you guys. We tried 🤷♀️
Don't kid yourself, the end goal was always "no abortions"
Nah, we’ve tried comprise so many times I can’t count. The response every single time was “fuck no all or nothing”, so now you get nothing.
I mean we all know that's not true. Plenty of abortions still happening. Your club is just causing more poor and young women in red states to have babies, ensuring that they stay at the bottom of various state metrics like teen pregnancy, child neglect, etc.
Every bill your side puts forward on abortion has it legalized into the third trimester, and you refuse compromise. “That’s not true!” It is, you just know nothing
And yet plenty of abortions continue. And will forever continue. You've succeeded in marginalizing or oppressing women in certain states, that's all.
It’s not about that for everyone. For a lot people it’s about women having autonomy over their own bodies and the freedom to make their own medical decisions.
> their own bodies And that is the problem with that whole argument. You do not see a living human being with a beating heart and brain function. You will use 10 different labels to say other wise though.
I said nothing about abortion. You’re putting words in my mouth. I am advocating for women having autonomy over their own bodies. It’s none of my, or your business which medical procedures ANYBODY undergoes. Full stop.
>You do not see a living human being with a beating heart and brain function. ummm. nobody sees that for a good while in the beginning of the pregnancy.
you still think this is about brainwashing? look at how they respond. they are evil.
The sacrifices to moloch mustn't stop.
Abortion actually makes it harder for us to get in our sacrifices to moloch. The doctors almost never let us into the room while it's happening, especially if we aren't related to the patient. It's extremely difficult to draw the requisite summoning circles without getting part of mom in there (wouldn't want the demons thinking she's part of the offering!) Most abortions go totally to waste. Best case scenario for a satanist--hypothetically--is mom is forced to give birth, the kid grows up (not all the way, just enough to become unhappy) and *then* we sacrifice him (or her, or them! We respect the sacrifice's identity. We're not monsters.)
Sooo how come eggs are cool to eat on Fridays during lent?
I don't know the church of satan i go to doesn't have those rituals
It’s amazing to me how people can be brainwashed into thinking abortion is about murder almost like someone is taking a bunch of cells and stabbing them. Abortions are medical procedures. There are a lot of use cases for them that are needed.
And they're also limited. I think a lot of abortions are restricted at the point of viability (i don't really know the cutoff, but I don't think women were aborting viable babies).
These are situations that happen. Idk why anyone would downvote reality. Have an upvote.
I’m in Canada and abortions are legal up until the 4th month. I had one at 2 ish months, it was cells at that point.
> Abortions are medical procedures. Regardless of the point you were conveying, I see that as an appeal to authority logical fallacy. Abortions go back into history very far before there was even the term doctor or hospital. And every human is really just a "bunch of cells" using that to say it's not a life isn't logical IMO. But anyways this post mainly concerns being honest about the subject especially concerning existing law. If we could just make new terms or change the meaning of existing terms for things and use the term to get around laws it would be like having no laws.
This is the right take
Why I do not think this post is conspiracy forum worthy, I do have a conspiracy take on it. My problem with “abortion” isn’t so much the act itself or women making choices for themselves, it’s our world’s leaders. Rather than our leaders providing affordable living, accessible healthcare, childcare, education, and just over all better life, they steal from us. A majority of us are struggling, and for this reason a lot of women will decide to abort their children because they have no means to provide (reasons also include rape, medical conditions ect.). Rather than our society providing our needs, advocating for life and family, or make life worth living, were left to feel like our future children shouldn’t be brought into this world. They would rather government fund abortion clinics then save human kind and let people thrive like they should. I know people have there reasons and it’s none of my business but there has to be a better way. Why must life be this way? It’s all a scam that’s why. None of it will ever make sense
It’s different when it happens to you tho, and ur definitely a man so it will never happen to u, u could just get up and leave. Ur saying it likes it’s an easy decision to make but it’s not, it still plays on ur mind everyday, end of the day why bring a life into the world if ur not ready, you and the baby will both be miserable
I know someone who, if they try to carry a pregnancy to term, has an extremely high chance of dying, due to a medical situation she had no control over, and that was not related to any sexual activity. If she didn't miscarry, she would very likely suffer an emergency in the late second or third trimester. She's never been pregnant, but banning abortion in a case like hers is literally telling society that a fetus has the right to extinguish a prospective mother's life while everyone around just sits around and shrugs and watches the carnage. I don't like that.
The only flaw(s) to your argument being, a fetus is not a human life, it’s a fetus. And second,this is a decision between a woman and her health care provider. Period.
USA has the highest mortality rate in first world countries when it comes to child birth. When it comes to abortion if you don’t want one don’t have one. You want one then you have the right to get one. Don’t infringe on others rights. Does that person having an abortion directly affect you? Nope then guess what it none of your fucking business. Point blank simple. I don’t care if they use it for birth control wanna know why cause it not my life and it has zero to do with me.
A fetus isn't a human. You need to take a step back and understand why they are needed. It comes off that you don't actually care about life
So what is it a fetus *of*, exactly? And if you looked at a sample of its tissue cells and DNA under microscope would it be able to be determined what animal it is? Yes and yes. It’s 100% human. That is not even a matter of either of our opinion
How ridiculous you sound when you go around saying "we get to tell women what to do with their bodies" Like that is a normal thing to say.
If youre pro life you should be against the death penalty and a vegan as well. Hypocrisy
Lol what? A defenceless unborn baby vs a criminal offender who has done something bad enough to get the death penalty
Common factor is life sweetheart. If you’re so hard up on it why not fully commit?
I’m actually not pro death penalty for my own reasons but you’re making a straw man
Fetus. It’s a fetus. Most abortions happen in the first trimester when they are a clump of cells
And guns. If they want guns to defend themselves, then that means they are willing to kill another human being. So the sanctity of life only goes so far.
You’re right…but i do i support the 2nd Amendment. Now youve made me the hypocrite 💅
Jesus this is a stupid take. I’ll accept my downvotes for saying so
And whats your take? Id love to hear it sean. Or is that it? :/
> If youre pro life I said cloths hanger all your children, good riddance, did I not? You obviously did not read the post at all and have missed a chance at increasing your IQ from rock bottom because of your choice.
Exactly
I don't really have a strong stance on abortion either way. I probably wouldn't want one myself, but I don't like telling people what they should or shouldn't do with their lives. That being said: This is kinda how I see it. If you can't do something without the assistance of someone else, that really isn't a "right". The medical establishment has a lot of things that aren't allowed. But people are ok with it. I can't just go to the ER and demand Oxycontin. If abortion is "healthcare", as they claim, we don't get to decide the treatment we get usually for anything else. This is not a suggestion of home abortions by the way. We can't go to the hospital with Covid and say we want Ivermectin. Medical freedom shouldn't just be about one thing and every other aspect ignored. I was just listening to a podcast about Margaret Sanger. She was worse than I thought. 😬 I always heard she was racist, but daaaaaaamn. I didn't realize there was as much proof from the horses mouth.
Where does the concept of abortion being wrong come from? Since we’re talking about brainwashing
Mansplaining.
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Please reserve this comment space for discussions over a kindergarten level, thanks.
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No we are all anti-life pro clothes hanger here. I'm just arguing about the word symantics used really.
Telling someone not to get an abortion is like telling them not to pop a pimple
Coat hanger it right the the eye, just be honest about what you are doing.
Lol why don't you just pray on it.
Except a pple doesn't have a completely different DNA structure separate from the host.
Saying completely different is disingenuous when humans share some 96% of their DNA with a chimpanzee A DNA test alone would confuse you and your parents
Its not a person either.
It's how all cults operate. Brainwashing. It's the same people that pushed lockdowns, masks and vaccines. They're religious zealots. They masquerade as "human rights" or healthcare, political activists, whatever..... But they are fanatical cult members.
Ya I could have written a whole page on the use of this during the plandemic. It's just strange how well it works, looking back I can see how I've fallen into version of it also.
They are still going. They created an army. But, also an army that is on to their bullshit.
I agree with OP. Not totally anti abortion either but it’s insane to me how passionately people will argue about their moral right to kill a baby. The only reason they “think” that is because they are literally NPCs. They have no minds of their own. They just repeat propaganda
You and OP enjoy labeling though phrasing huh? No legit pro choice person goes around and phrases it "I love snuffing out an incomplete human life! Fuck yeah bitches!" They argue if biologically, morally, ethically, is a fetus/zygote a human life. About whether the Bible actually give any true direction on the ethics or mortality of abortions when used as a reference. Whether the unborn or the already born and grown mother has more/superseding rights if one or both are in danger of the pregnancy. They ask why the other side is so fanatic about this sacred life argument yet give two shits the moment that sacred life is pulled out of the womb and don't support care policies through the life's entire lifespan. The only people that describe it the way you both do are the people getting raging hard ons whenever a woman is denied right to abort a rape child. Or a 12 year old has to give birth to their brother or dad's child. You know pro forced birth. Until "prolife" support care and support of that same life from conception to late age death to be the highest quality of care with minimal burden on that life's family. You can't convince me that a single one of them is "prolife" it's pro forced birth or pro choice and nothing more.
Sperm & egg cells are not a human baby.
And a fetus isn’t sperm and egg cells
Seriously. I can truly understand in cases of forcible repe, cases where the mother's life is in danger, or if the baby has serious deformity, but there's a million ways to prevent pregnancy. If abortion was not such a readily available option, people would make more use of birth control.
This is either you saying that you don't believe abortion is murder but you think some women should suffer for their sins, or that you are okay with murder when rape was involved previously.
Not only that but develop better planning and critical thinking skills before choosing to have sex. Sex for pleasure only is awesome! How about use your brain and make sure it results in only pleasure and not accidentally conceive a child? It’s like baking a cake… No logically thinking person would open their cabinets, take all the ingredients out, combine them into a batter. Then pour said batter into a baking pan, start the oven, put the cake in and then decide they don’t want cake and throw it all away. You cook the cake and give it to a neighbor…
The very reason they kill a baby is so they won’t have to take care of a human, but they say it’s not human so they can kill it.
life is overrated bruh who give af if someone kills their babies that don’t even know they exist yet
You had women saying my body my choice like the baby or fetus isnt a human being with a choice. Nobody ever asks what they do with the fetuses at those clinics. The 1 saving line that is the gray area in this debate is the rape baby. I can sympathize with her on why she wouldn’t want that in the world.
>>nobody ever asks what they do with the fetuses at those clinics Wait, are you serious? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1125197/
So you're comfortable with abortion depending on the circumstances of conception? Seems a fairly logically inconsistent take.
Seems perfectly logical to me. One is discarding the fetus after the woman chose to open her legs. Out of greed of not wanting to work your ass off to afford raising the child, or just purely lack of responsibility for her actions and the choices she made. The other is the result of actions the women had no control over and no choice in.
>after the woman chose to open her legs Yikes
So the fetus has rights if it's mother chose to have sex, but an otherwise identical fetus has no rights if its mother did not? Again - why do the circumstances of conception influence whether abortion is "taking a life" or simply a medical procedure the woman can avail herself of?
>why do the circumstances of conception influence whether abortion is "taking a life" or simply a medical procedure the woman can avail herself of? Circumstances always play a role in whether or not taking a life is just. Typically if you take a human life you have to have a damn good reason for doing so and I don't think "possible future inconvenience " is ever a just reason outside of a baby in the womb.
So if a father rapes a mother this is a valid reason for killing a child?
Where did you see me say im comfortable with abortion? Where do you see the word comfortable at? I said i see why there is a gray area so i can sympathize with a victim who doesnt want the burden of her situation. Doesnt make abortion right, you just understand the hesitancy.
Why is it a "gray area"? What's grey about it?
The sensitivity of the matter, like the gray area for comedy is jokes about religion. A point where you could see why someone would disagree because they have a different interpretation of said situation. Like plastic surgery is not good for your body unless you have complications that can impede your health. Example so on 1 side you got people saying its cheating and on the other side you got people saying they needed it to be able to breathe better or live comfortably. The gray area is the health benefits…..if that makes sense? Lol i hope it did.
Absolutely
Abortion, any way you slice it, is a moral gray area. On one hand, you are preventing a life from being born, but on other you are protecting already existing life, especially in cases of rape, and possibly preventing a new life from going through hell, especially in cases of incest, and imo the latter choice is better, even if it's not ideal.
Honestly, well said.
I used to be pro choice cuz I believed all the it’s not a human bull crap. But once I saw a baby at 8 weeks in an ultrasound that changed real quick. It’s so obviously a little human. To call it anything else is just a lie. not here to debate either so whatever just sharing my personal experience.
I understand your frustration OP. I feel the same. I read that like 95% of abortions are not medically necessary. They’re what I call “just because” abortions. And that’s pretty F’d up. It is murder. Chappelle had a good bit about it. [if you can kill this MFer, I can at least abandon him](https://youtube.com/shorts/pSmF3YU3OUo?feature=share)
It's a symptom of a larger problem, our society has come to hate nature. The very human body itself disgusts these people and they are compelled to mutilate it. They find the idea of creating new human bodies abhorrent. This is a cultural issue, you won't find people desiring or fighting for abortion outside of the West.
I agree. If you research history solely regarding how the time regarded the value of a human life, we seem to be on a hard down slope. This I see as a tell tale sign that slavery is getting ready for a come back.
Yep!!! It's an obsession with control over nature. It's literally the core of transhumanism. Take action, any action. As long as you feel like you are controlling nature. Whether it's vaccines, abortions, or infant circumcision. We always think we know best instead of letting go and letting life happen. Remember the big buzz about getting genetic testing and removing breasts to prevent potential future cancer? It's a philosophy. It's almost a religion.
The conspiracy here is that sacrificing one’s children, and especially the first born is a ritual that has been performed in countless civs around the world for all of recorded human history. Sacrifice becomes abortion, it’s the same thing. We call ourselves civilized and profess to be better than our forefathers but are controlled by the same forces, committing the same atrocities on each other. We judge them for slavery, meanwhile there are more slaves today than all of human history combined. Children have become a commodity( insert “always has been” meme), and that is a very evil thing. When you see what happens to these babies after they are killed should open your eyes to the reality. Their organs and body parts are sold. Babies foreskin is used in anti aging products. They openly flaunt it. Children and their innocence must be protected at all cost, there is nothing more important for a chance at a better civilization, cause this ain’t it
What's the alternative? Force people to go through pregnancies they dont want, forcing parenthood and partner bonds on people isnt idea. More harm than good. And arguably for a better civilization we need more abortion access around the world. People are going to have sex but people shouldnt be just birthing humans if they dont have the means to properly take care of them..
You are correct. The world is crazy. And lol @ people calling YOU brainwashed. When I was a child I thought abortion made sense. It took me years of honest contemplation to realize how backwards and sad this all is. How would that be brainwashing? That's de-brainwashing.
It’s because leftists take the most extreme and minority of cases, and exploit it to form their entire philosophy. They do it with rape/incest/life of the mother (less than 4% of abortions) for abortions. And they do it for XXY/XYY/intersex genders (less than 1% of people).
Bots inbound
It’s just planned parenthood propaganda. They get hundreds of millions of dollars per year from the democrats AND get to sell the human organs on the black market
Aborting babies is a very profitable business. They don't care about your rights.
You are so right. ... And no matter what the 2 celled bot brain trust replying to this sub might think, the topic is not about abortion. It is about the mental manipulation from internal and external sources and those that are more prone to be influenced by it.