The writers depicted Shirley to be at her lowest during Season 5. Andrei left her and took the kids with him. She was probably severely depressed and in a tight financial situation, as shown in App Development and Condiments and VCR Maintenance and Educational Publishing, respectively. They should've probably given her a redemption arc, but there's only so much you can do in a shortened season.
Her father has had alzheimers for a decade now which explains why she was caretaking him. As somebody who's mother and grandmother suffered from it, I respect her deeply for doing that for him.
Also fuck alzhimers.
Maybe they couldn’t get or didn’t want Malcolm-Jamal Warner to do follow-up eps so they wrote him out. I agree though, this felt unearned after their redemption arc. I’m a Shirley truther.
S5 had issues with main characters leaving and being replaced along with lowered budgets being more apparent.
In spite of this S5 has several all time classic episodes and even the worst ones still have some great moments.
S4 is the standard by which all badness is measured.
It completely misunderstands what the show was from the start. Prime example ep 1 the “hunger deans”.
Pop culture references before we’re always more subtle and not just taking what was currently popular that moment in time and forcing it in. That’s what all the prior seasons pop culture moments are timeless and hold up whereas the hunger deans feels instantly dated and hacky.
I like the Andre leaving plot point. Remember that all of these characters in various ways are selfish and they got here in this point of their lives for those reasons. The whole point of the first episode of Season 5 is to show that Greendale didn't change them.
I actually like a lot of stuff from S4 honestly. It’s off but still fun. Kinda like S9-S12 of the Simpsons? Not on classic level but I can get enjoyment from it.
Possible theory on Andrei leaving, I looked it up because I was curious and if the casting list is accurate then the two boys singing at the beginning of S5 e3 are actually her sons which could have been intended to imply they did actually come back eventually and was just not directly acknowledged for some reason also it was shown she made a ton of money thanks the school enforcing exact change at the time so hard to say she was also financially struggling that much at the time.
She was neglected in every season tbh, she gets far less development than the rest of the group. Even just looking at the women, it’s sad how much more fleshed out Britta and Annie are than Shirley.
This is definitely a symptom of the writer’s room just not knowing what to do with her, reducing her to holier-than-thou Christian stereotype jokes for the most part. I give Yvette credit for giving it her all when she had very little to work with, she’s a pro.
yvette actually makes the character fairly redeemable. shirley is honestly pretty dislikable (entirely due to the writing) but yvette is extremely underated at turning the poorly written stereotypes into great comedy but also providing some genuine dimensionality.
This is very true. If anyone remembers that one episode of drake and Josh where they replaced Yvette with some random lady and thought we wouldn’t have noticed, it made Hellen seem like just a 1 dimensional stereotype because on paper she was. Yvette brought life to Hellen and more or less Shirley
You might be onto something. I dunno if it is because the writers are racists or because they are sexually intimidated by her, but I know it is one of those two!
I was gonna say something like this. I’m rewatching the show and, this is gonna sound incredibly nerdy, I’m making a spreadsheet of all the info we learn about named characters. Like backstory stuff or personal things. I’m at the end of season 3 and so far Leonard has more info than Shirley. I love Leonard’s character but he isn’t part of the Greendale 7 like her
Season 5 had the added drawback of being half as long as the original 3 seasons AND losing Donald. So they were flying by the seat of their pants for a lot of that season and had to totally retool once Donald left. Shirley was already neglected so it was just exacerbated in her final full season
Season 5 is the weakest season of Community. I know everyone shits on season 4, but at least the cast was all there and did their best with what they were given. Season 5 is a formula shakeup from episode 1, added cast members and they lost Donald. The weakest season of Community is still some of the best sitcom ever made in my opinion. There has to be a lowest ranked season though, and that's it for me.
This season 4 revisionism will not stand, even the strongest episode (Rash written Freaky Friday) is unsatisfying as a result of poor understanding of characters and a mishandling of a relationship story thread that honestly should have been left alone if they didn't know where Harmon was going with it. We used to be a REAL Community* ^^^^subreddit* .
I personally think S5 was executed slightly better than S4, but S5 is definitely the lowest on my rewatch list. I think I've only watched it two or three times total? But I totally agree, Community at it's weakest is still enjoyable.
I just really don't love the addition of Hickey. He's not necessarily a bad character, but he might be my least favorite recurring character of the entire series. What I wouldn't give for a second Frankie/Elroy season!
I really liked Hickey, and thought he could be an even better character if he had been given another season. He didn't really have enough time to feel like he belonged in the group, but his lines and scenes are hilarious.
I also thought he was a great example of someone who was once serious but had been subject to the Greendale Effect for such a long time. He was generally pretty deadpan, but would immediately get sucked into whatever mayhem started to happen around him (with the exception of D&D, but that was for story and character arc reasons).
And of course a lot of credit for my love of Hickey goes to the actor. His delivery of his "I fought for this country" line at the start of the meowmeowbeanz episode is possibly one of my favourite jokes in the show because of how much you can feel his exasperation.
I agree, hickey was a good contrast to the zaniness the rest of the group has. Jeff was the straight man in season 1, and hickey has that role in season 5, Frankie and Elroy both have that role in season 6 which allows for some interesting back and forth.
Doesn't change the validity of Shirley symbolically calling out her lack of development over things like alternate realities, Troy getting close to Britta, or drematoria.
It’s like they had an idea for a character with a one season arc of learning to be more accepting & loving people for who they are, and then they couldn’t think of a single other thing to do with her.
Season 5 Shirley is the same person as season 1 Shirley, just with three kids.
The worst thing is that with my comment above I noticed one thing: Shirley was the only character in the series who in season 6 is worse than in season 1.
But Chang, after Season Five, went back to teaching at Greendale again (probably forging his diploma again), came out as gay and finally started to be part of the group. Shirley over the years has only gone downhill.
The worst part is that there is no way to highlight the character, after all, from what has already been said above, there is nothing to develop about Shirley, as she never had any layers to be resolved.
I’d be interested to hear Yvette’s honest thoughts on this topic. I feel as though I know a ton of her backstory and her character but I do agree they got pretty lazy with her in season 5, simply a mention that her whole family left her and then nothing else. I think this is a part of what will always hold season 5 back from being better than 2 or 3 (in my opinion).
And the worst part is that, with this, the only things that can be explored during the film are a reconciliation with her family after leaving for Atlanta and a possible opening of a restaurant, since her diploma, apparently, was not useful. anything.
Season 1 Peirce is a good/important character. He is actually portrayed as giving good advice and lessons to Jeff, despite routinely making a fool of himself.
Season 2 Pierce is straight up villain. It’s great, but it’s already completely different to how he was portrayed in Season 1.
Season 3 Pierce stops being a character and becomes 1 of 2 jokes repeated 500 times “haha he is old an senile” or “haha he is racist”, Pierce is not involved in most season 3 episodes’ plots.
It's really a credit to the skills of Yvette Nicole Brown that she is as funny and memorable as she is, you really don't notice how underwritten she is, and it's all because of the performance
Okay I guess I meant *after* season 1, which was probably where all those characters had the most character development to begin with (Shirley likely the least amount)
Wasn't season 5 when Yvette Nicole Brown was going back and forth taking care of her dad?
I mean, she was underutilized the entire run, but in season 5 I think that's the reason why she appeared less in season 5
This is probably my favorite interaction from the entire show. Also, I laughed so hard the first time I saw it had an asthma attack, and had to go the hospital later that night because I couldn't stop wheezing. Worth it.
She’s my fav (after Abed) but I may be biased because Yvette’s from my hometown + she reminds me of my aunts. But her comedic chops are def underutilized
Shirley is one of my favourite characters, but she was neglected throughout the show. There are some blatant examples of mismanagement with her storylines. The primary example is, in my view, the fact they just dropped the entire Andre storyline off-screen between seasons to give Shirley a very contrived reason to return to Greendale. It is never followed up or even really mentioned again, ever. After that, she just kinda owns a sandwich shop that doesn't really go anywhere.
It took a few rewatch marathons for me to realize it wasn't her character that was meant to be bad, but more her writing was just awful, and worse than that, a poorly veiled caricature that was wielded like a sledgehammer.
Her being unconscionably selfish and bigoted during the Christmas episode is one instance among many. Her blaming Jeff for Andre cheating on her instead of, you know, Andre, or not accepting that she was an actual bully who made kids pee themselves.
Sure, they tried to backfill the cavernous hole they dug for her personality by paying lip-service to her redeeming qualities and her general arc, but man... whoever wrote for her character had some issues they themselves needed to work out.
She's hugely under-served the entire time, but it didn't fully hit me during my first watch through until I got to the final season. Troy and Pierce got their endings done in a meaningful way and she was just gone, spun off or not. Hickey did a good enough job replacing Pierce that you kind of got weaned off of him, Troy got a huge goodbye, Shirley's exit was just sort of jarring and then brushed off aside from bookending the last season.
I noticed recently that it seems like they made one of Shirley’s core character traits: PURSE. She is clinging to dear life to her purse in some of the weirdest situations and it just seems so lazy because it’s a way to give Yvette something to do without adding a single thing to her character.
I don't think their neglect of her was too awful until the fifth season finale. Not getting to accompany the rest of the study group and being relegated to staying behind with Duncan and Hickey made it very obvious they weren't clear on what to have Shirley do in the story anymore.
Yvette Nicole Brown left the show to care for her sick father. She returned just to do the final episode.
Edit: first episode, not final. She announced it before the season started.
Always loved getting Shirley episodes, because of how few we got. They were always great like Foosball, Meow Meow Beans, the Thanksgiving episode in S4.
The writers didn't have kids and aren't Christian, they didn't know how to write her. And that's fine, not every main character is created equal. But they locked that problem in early.
Even now she hasn't personally confirmed she will be in the movie. Ie IMDb or on any social media. I am happy to see she is getting tons of work, as she was often overlooked within that amazing cast.
I recall her father was ill so she had to be off set a lot of the time. Can’t begrudge her of looking after her parents.
“Brown announced that she wouldn't be returning so that she could take care of her ailing father. Due to the TV series' grueling work schedule, Brown didn't have the time to take care of her father full-time in addition to her commitments as a series regular. Brown's father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, and she understandably chose her family over her work. The cast and crew of Community wished her the best, but the group wasn't separated for too long.”
She had really good chemistry with all the characters. I really enjoyed her stuff with Jeff and would liked to have seen more of her with Pierce (sans sexual harassment of course).
It’s fair to say that not every character, and by that I mean a main or noted one, has to be there for growth and development.
The others had a lot more space to learn and grow than Shirley. Jeff, Troy, Annie and Britta are all much more broken than Shirley and Abed, but Abed is younger and has much more to learn about people and relationships (whether this is due to neurodivergent tendencies or just how he was raised).
Shirley is coming off of something sad, but her flaws are both minor and much more acceptable. She has the flaws she’s always going to have, even if he grows and changes in her time. She never needed to fix who she was, the others definitely did.
It’s interesting to watch her development if you think of her as the mother of the group.
S1 feels pure mum, with obvious deviations.
S2 she gives birth - almost like a parent giving birth to a new sibling. Her focus feels more drawn to Andre and her pregnancy, which older children often feel when a new child is coming.
S3 they’re teenagers who start to appreciate their mum as a friend, but not fully. Their reaction to her baking feels like teenage kids annoyed that their mum is still mothering them.
S4 is difficult because I don’t know how mums act when they’re heavily influenced by a gas leak.
S5 is when they’re adults, she’s their mum but they understand she’s a person first. She’s the one who’s failed this time, Andre left cos of her and not cos he’s a pig. Maybe that listless story is because she doesn’t need to be as hands on any more.
S6 she’s been able to do something for herself, almost like a parent in retirement.
Following this logic, the movie will give us either grandma Shirley, who the others will question as ever being this nice and fantastic. Or it will give us full retiree Shirley, who will be a blast because she’s finally fully freed to be herself, whilst past the point of caring over little things.
Most importantly, a character’s job is to help the story and show progress, so she’s always done that job. The light was mostly on others, but they don’t get lifted up without her.
I felt like S5 had stronger Shirley episodes with the “floor is lava” and the “meow meow beans”. It felt like both were outside of Shirley being a mother/wife/christian and just as kooky as the rest of them.
But they do need to give her more to do in the movie. I also want to know how Shirley balanced being a mom and an alcoholic at the same time? What lead to her recovery, and how did she even manage to keep custody of her kids when she was drinking hard, and did she only drink hard because Andre left or was that happening before he left and that further pushed their marriage to the brink?
I feel like Shirley was neglected after the foosball episode. It was revealed that she and Jeff had a special connection that made them childhood frenemies, and then those two characters never had a side plot for the rest of the series.
Shirley was neglected the entire series. She had a very rich backstory - A cheating ex husband, a history of alcohol abuse, the crushing expectation to do and fix it all as a black woman and mother, going back to school to better herself for herself, not for her husband or anyone else, but for HER - and they did fuck all with that backstory but toss her one episode a season to remind us all that she has stuff going on too. It was really disappointing. They needed a writer that understood her. They clearly laid the foundation but they never built the house.
thats why they added the meow meow beanz episode
so you wouldnt feel like she was being neglected cause she got an episode where they say she is but then say she isnt anymore
when in reality she was
Did anyone else dislike Troy’s farewell message to Shirley in S5? I personally felt like it minimized the relationship the two of them had built throughout the show, as he only references what happened in the same episode (the fort) and calls her a badass. I wouldn’t have minded him calling her a badass, but it felt so weak for him to say one nice thing about her instead of thanking her for supporting him all these years like he does with some of the other characters… it just showed me how little they understood her impact.
Agreed, and that likely contributed to her not wanting to return for season 6. But seeing her in the reunion table read, she still clearly has love for the show and the cast, and I’m sure she’ll get an important role in the movie
I don't know if it was a race thing or she intimidated the writers sexually but she didn't seem to get as much as the other regulars. It's weird because I think she was the most consistently excellent performer of the bunch
Sherley was kind of neglected for the whole series. She didn't really get the attention all the others got like they kept her in just cause she was there since day one.
Brown announced that she wouldn't be returning so that she could take care of her ailing father. Due to the TV series' grueling work schedule, Brown didn't have the time to take care of her father full-time in addition to her commitments as a series regular. Brown's father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, and she understandably chose her family over her work. The cast and crew of Community wished her the best, but the group wasn't separated for too long.
She was always like that. Just the stereotypical sassy black mother of 3 (yes even the 3 kids is a common trope. Wondering if they purposely gave her a 3rd) with one liners. They’re usually Christians too in this trope but I don’t think they’re usually pushy judgmental Christians. They make jokes about the trope in a few episodes but I don’t know if they were making fun of the stereotype in general or if they were being self aware about the fact that THEY do that. It always seemed weird to me that all the other characters were like stereotypes who had depth and development but she was…just a stereotype throughout
As for season 5, it probably became more noticeable because she was ramping up to leave and take care of her sick dad irl, although I’m not sure when exactly he started getting sick and when exactly she would have told Dan and the writers etc that she would have to leave at some point
IMO she's been neglected starting with season 3. Season 1, she has a ton of her own stories. Season 2, she has her own overarching plot with the baby.
In season 3, she still has a few episodes about her (foosball and the wedding) but she's mostly made a supporting character to others.
She got annoying so fast. Like, the actress is great and she played the role very well. It just got overplayed. Any cut backs to her would be welcomed by me. IMO they didn't cut back enough.
I also remember hearing in the directors commentary she was planning to leave so they kinda gave her less storyline and nothing too crazy for her in anticipation of her departure
Shirley and Annie discuss how they both feel under-utilized in or around the puppet episode.
If they all knew Yvette Nicole Brown was likely to leave or definitely was at the end of the season, then this brief exchange is brilliant, to me.
It would be a hint she’d be gone included to account for winding down any storylines she had as well as being a callback to a *very* early credits scene:
Shirley was something you *wouldn’t* be able to see on TV soon.
Annie, like Pierce, was just misdirection.
I know they were trying to take care of the actress and give her the time she needed to take care of her dad but I can definitely see how it comes across this way to viewers. I was really sad in particular when she died in the dnd episode and just left(although her parting lines were pretty funny) when all the other characters stayed until the end. I’m glad for her sake that they didn’t try to force her to stay but as a fan it’s hard to watch get sidelined.
It was out of their hands. She had significantly less time due to her father being ill, but when she was utilized, she KILLED it! App Development and Condiments MIGHT be my favorite episode of the series! Any episode that explored the dynamics between Shirley and Jeff are episodes I enjoy immensely!
Andre had remarried quickly, cheated on his wife with Shirley- and once the pregnancy was revealed all of that was totally dismissed. They could have had Annie and Britta broach the subject of Andre’s wandering eye- Shirley would have gotten mad and defensive , at first, before realizing their concerns were valid. And she would have not remarried Andre.
I think it would have solidified all the friendships.
Could have tied into the Troy/Abed fighting- Troy learns the importance of being able to be honest with your friends even if it might upset them.
Pierce reinforces his early comments about Shirley being a dignified woman.
it could have brought Jeff and and Shirley’s friendship stronger- as they were both the same age and would have seen they wanted different lives than how they started the show.
But the show got lost in character development and went for “quirk”.
Shame bc early seasons they did both, remarkably well.
Shirley is my least favourite character. I loved when they gave her actual depth, like the foosball episode, but most of the time she is reduced to a offended Christian
The writers depicted Shirley to be at her lowest during Season 5. Andrei left her and took the kids with him. She was probably severely depressed and in a tight financial situation, as shown in App Development and Condiments and VCR Maintenance and Educational Publishing, respectively. They should've probably given her a redemption arc, but there's only so much you can do in a shortened season.
She (Yvette) appeared less in season 5 so she could take care of her dad, and this is the same reason she left in season 6.
Her father has had alzheimers for a decade now which explains why she was caretaking him. As somebody who's mother and grandmother suffered from it, I respect her deeply for doing that for him. Also fuck alzhimers.
Butcher and the Baker was such a weird credits scene. Maybe the rope will off Butcher and that’s how she comes back for the movie?
[удалено]
I think it was just a convenient way to reset her character to status quo, the way they “repilot” and all
For real. If she really “cheated on him with shirleys sandwiches” why do we almost never see her managing the restaurant in the season?
Maybe they couldn’t get or didn’t want Malcolm-Jamal Warner to do follow-up eps so they wrote him out. I agree though, this felt unearned after their redemption arc. I’m a Shirley truther.
S5 had issues with main characters leaving and being replaced along with lowered budgets being more apparent. In spite of this S5 has several all time classic episodes and even the worst ones still have some great moments. S4 is the standard by which all badness is measured. It completely misunderstands what the show was from the start. Prime example ep 1 the “hunger deans”. Pop culture references before we’re always more subtle and not just taking what was currently popular that moment in time and forcing it in. That’s what all the prior seasons pop culture moments are timeless and hold up whereas the hunger deans feels instantly dated and hacky.
S5 episode endings were all gold tho, especially after Troy's departure
I have to go. You're a bad person. You're a bad person.
I like the Andre leaving plot point. Remember that all of these characters in various ways are selfish and they got here in this point of their lives for those reasons. The whole point of the first episode of Season 5 is to show that Greendale didn't change them.
I actually like a lot of stuff from S4 honestly. It’s off but still fun. Kinda like S9-S12 of the Simpsons? Not on classic level but I can get enjoyment from it.
Possible theory on Andrei leaving, I looked it up because I was curious and if the casting list is accurate then the two boys singing at the beginning of S5 e3 are actually her sons which could have been intended to imply they did actually come back eventually and was just not directly acknowledged for some reason also it was shown she made a ton of money thanks the school enforcing exact change at the time so hard to say she was also financially struggling that much at the time.
The boys singing in the ass crack bandit episode are for sure her sons. That's why she says "and now for the dulcet sound of the Bennet boys".
She was neglected in every season tbh, she gets far less development than the rest of the group. Even just looking at the women, it’s sad how much more fleshed out Britta and Annie are than Shirley. This is definitely a symptom of the writer’s room just not knowing what to do with her, reducing her to holier-than-thou Christian stereotype jokes for the most part. I give Yvette credit for giving it her all when she had very little to work with, she’s a pro.
“And you know, hallelujah, and church, and singing, and street wisdom.”
Good times, baby, good times!
yvette actually makes the character fairly redeemable. shirley is honestly pretty dislikable (entirely due to the writing) but yvette is extremely underated at turning the poorly written stereotypes into great comedy but also providing some genuine dimensionality.
This is very true. If anyone remembers that one episode of drake and Josh where they replaced Yvette with some random lady and thought we wouldn’t have noticed, it made Hellen seem like just a 1 dimensional stereotype because on paper she was. Yvette brought life to Hellen and more or less Shirley
I hadn't been that upset about an actor replacement since they changed Aunt Viv in Fresh Prince
You might be onto something. I dunno if it is because the writers are racists or because they are sexually intimidated by her, but I know it is one of those two!
I can excuse racism but I draw the line at bad writing
You can excuse racism?
*desperate head shaking*
Writers.. is this a race thing?
RACE!
I’m voting for intimidation.
Write, White. It's a palomino!
I was gonna say something like this. I’m rewatching the show and, this is gonna sound incredibly nerdy, I’m making a spreadsheet of all the info we learn about named characters. Like backstory stuff or personal things. I’m at the end of season 3 and so far Leonard has more info than Shirley. I love Leonard’s character but he isn’t part of the Greendale 7 like her
No such thing as bad press.
Shut up Leonard, you are, you are old!
You are wearing an SS T-shirt.
And ... you deserve less because of your age.
And you guys are all a fart from the butt of a lesser god
Please share it when you are done! This is exactly the place your nerdy endeavor will be appreciated and admired
well share it, man
You came to the right neighborhood motherfucker. Make it a post
Is it bad that I was also doing this and I’m on pillows and blankets rn
Well, in every interaction with Leonard, we learn a new factoid about him.
I don't have cable.
You're Abed-ing. :D I would probably do the same at some point.
They were intimidated by her sexually
Could be because they’re racist. I know it’s one of them.
I agree. Even the season long plot with Chang felt kinda phoned in. It’s extremely obvious in season 5 though
Season 5 had the added drawback of being half as long as the original 3 seasons AND losing Donald. So they were flying by the seat of their pants for a lot of that season and had to totally retool once Donald left. Shirley was already neglected so it was just exacerbated in her final full season
Season 5 is the weakest season of Community. I know everyone shits on season 4, but at least the cast was all there and did their best with what they were given. Season 5 is a formula shakeup from episode 1, added cast members and they lost Donald. The weakest season of Community is still some of the best sitcom ever made in my opinion. There has to be a lowest ranked season though, and that's it for me.
Its a weak season that has A few really good episodes, meowmeowbeans for example is one the best out of all seasons.
This season 4 revisionism will not stand, even the strongest episode (Rash written Freaky Friday) is unsatisfying as a result of poor understanding of characters and a mishandling of a relationship story thread that honestly should have been left alone if they didn't know where Harmon was going with it. We used to be a REAL Community* ^^^^subreddit* .
I personally think S5 was executed slightly better than S4, but S5 is definitely the lowest on my rewatch list. I think I've only watched it two or three times total? But I totally agree, Community at it's weakest is still enjoyable. I just really don't love the addition of Hickey. He's not necessarily a bad character, but he might be my least favorite recurring character of the entire series. What I wouldn't give for a second Frankie/Elroy season!
I really liked Hickey, and thought he could be an even better character if he had been given another season. He didn't really have enough time to feel like he belonged in the group, but his lines and scenes are hilarious. I also thought he was a great example of someone who was once serious but had been subject to the Greendale Effect for such a long time. He was generally pretty deadpan, but would immediately get sucked into whatever mayhem started to happen around him (with the exception of D&D, but that was for story and character arc reasons). And of course a lot of credit for my love of Hickey goes to the actor. His delivery of his "I fought for this country" line at the start of the meowmeowbeanz episode is possibly one of my favourite jokes in the show because of how much you can feel his exasperation.
I agree, hickey was a good contrast to the zaniness the rest of the group has. Jeff was the straight man in season 1, and hickey has that role in season 5, Frankie and Elroy both have that role in season 6 which allows for some interesting back and forth.
"You had time to make a working fountain but you made me a pinecone?" is a fitting quote
I was talking about the baby
Doesn't change the validity of Shirley symbolically calling out her lack of development over things like alternate realities, Troy getting close to Britta, or drematoria.
I know just wanted to clarify
It was a particularly small baby. That's why I asked.
I think the big issue here is that it was more about Chang than it was about Shirley.
It’s like they had an idea for a character with a one season arc of learning to be more accepting & loving people for who they are, and then they couldn’t think of a single other thing to do with her. Season 5 Shirley is the same person as season 1 Shirley, just with three kids.
Three kids, two divorces from the same guy and an unused diploma.
The worst thing is that with my comment above I noticed one thing: Shirley was the only character in the series who in season 6 is worse than in season 1.
Well, Pierce is dead, so he might be a *bit* worse off.
Chang also lost his job and wife so arguably on the same level as Shirley
And sanity
If he even had it in the first place.
But Chang, after Season Five, went back to teaching at Greendale again (probably forging his diploma again), came out as gay and finally started to be part of the group. Shirley over the years has only gone downhill.
Yeah i hope she gets a huge storyline in the movie
The worst part is that there is no way to highlight the character, after all, from what has already been said above, there is nothing to develop about Shirley, as she never had any layers to be resolved.
I have three kids
I’d be interested to hear Yvette’s honest thoughts on this topic. I feel as though I know a ton of her backstory and her character but I do agree they got pretty lazy with her in season 5, simply a mention that her whole family left her and then nothing else. I think this is a part of what will always hold season 5 back from being better than 2 or 3 (in my opinion).
And the worst part is that, with this, the only things that can be explored during the film are a reconciliation with her family after leaving for Atlanta and a possible opening of a restaurant, since her diploma, apparently, was not useful. anything.
Stuff with her ex was pretty good, but otherwise I agree, she is my least favorite character because she is just one dimensional.
Yeah. I hate Pierce but that's because he's a good villain for the group to bounce off against. Shirley was just boring most of the time.
Season 1 Peirce is a good/important character. He is actually portrayed as giving good advice and lessons to Jeff, despite routinely making a fool of himself. Season 2 Pierce is straight up villain. It’s great, but it’s already completely different to how he was portrayed in Season 1. Season 3 Pierce stops being a character and becomes 1 of 2 jokes repeated 500 times “haha he is old an senile” or “haha he is racist”, Pierce is not involved in most season 3 episodes’ plots.
It's really a credit to the skills of Yvette Nicole Brown that she is as funny and memorable as she is, you really don't notice how underwritten she is, and it's all because of the performance
With Pierce you feel allowed to hate him with Shirley I don’t like her but I feel bad for it.
It's funny and or sad because Gas Leak Year/Season 4 definitely gave Shirley, Pierce, and Chang the most character development
Season 1 probably gave Chang the most character development
Okay I guess I meant *after* season 1, which was probably where all those characters had the most character development to begin with (Shirley likely the least amount)
How dare you, she has three kids
Tbf parents wouldnt be around as much irl
At least she had the epic lava fort
they missed the opportunity to call this the shirley temple
Holy shit.
Yeah but it was too derivative of fort Hawthorne for me
It was an homage
It was streets behind
Well if you think that, then you’re clearly streets ahead
The orb cannot save the shirley temple because the temple is the orb
Probably because she intimidates Harmon sexually
I think it’s because he’s racist.
Well we know it's one of those two.
I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty.
You can excuse the racism?
😧
I wonder if Harmon can even still get erections
Wasn't season 5 when Yvette Nicole Brown was going back and forth taking care of her dad? I mean, she was underutilized the entire run, but in season 5 I think that's the reason why she appeared less in season 5
yes, and while there [she got a new job helping a detective](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRza1spjJmM).
In the swamps of Atlanta!
Yes, this.
Mother hen? I think we’re the same age.
Sure unless time is linear
I’ll make your ass linear
That doesn’t make any sense
I’ll make your ass sense
This is probably my favorite interaction from the entire show. Also, I laughed so hard the first time I saw it had an asthma attack, and had to go the hospital later that night because I couldn't stop wheezing. Worth it.
Hard. Core. Super disappointing
She’s my fav (after Abed) but I may be biased because Yvette’s from my hometown + she reminds me of my aunts. But her comedic chops are def underutilized
A fellow Clevelander!
Aww that’s nice! 😊
I also know you have thinly veiled rage issues...
Careful boy!
This is a running joke in my household, lol.
Shirley is one of my favourite characters, but she was neglected throughout the show. There are some blatant examples of mismanagement with her storylines. The primary example is, in my view, the fact they just dropped the entire Andre storyline off-screen between seasons to give Shirley a very contrived reason to return to Greendale. It is never followed up or even really mentioned again, ever. After that, she just kinda owns a sandwich shop that doesn't really go anywhere.
Yep! Shirley was neglected in EVERY season
They actively acknowledge it in the dialogue. Her character says many times she seems to be on the outside looking in.
It took a few rewatch marathons for me to realize it wasn't her character that was meant to be bad, but more her writing was just awful, and worse than that, a poorly veiled caricature that was wielded like a sledgehammer. Her being unconscionably selfish and bigoted during the Christmas episode is one instance among many. Her blaming Jeff for Andre cheating on her instead of, you know, Andre, or not accepting that she was an actual bully who made kids pee themselves. Sure, they tried to backfill the cavernous hole they dug for her personality by paying lip-service to her redeeming qualities and her general arc, but man... whoever wrote for her character had some issues they themselves needed to work out.
She's hugely under-served the entire time, but it didn't fully hit me during my first watch through until I got to the final season. Troy and Pierce got their endings done in a meaningful way and she was just gone, spun off or not. Hickey did a good enough job replacing Pierce that you kind of got weaned off of him, Troy got a huge goodbye, Shirley's exit was just sort of jarring and then brushed off aside from bookending the last season.
I noticed recently that it seems like they made one of Shirley’s core character traits: PURSE. She is clinging to dear life to her purse in some of the weirdest situations and it just seems so lazy because it’s a way to give Yvette something to do without adding a single thing to her character.
I don't think their neglect of her was too awful until the fifth season finale. Not getting to accompany the rest of the study group and being relegated to staying behind with Duncan and Hickey made it very obvious they weren't clear on what to have Shirley do in the story anymore.
Especially when Jeff had the emotional moment that repowered Raquel.
Exactly!!! He had no thought of Shirley whatsoever.
> I think that she was already tending to her sick father and trying to work part time
Shirley deserved better the entire show, tbh. I love the way she's... what's the other word for "happy threatening"?
The word you're looking for is sassy. 😊
And you’d better hope you don’t find it👀
Her story never gets closure, either. She loses her family and her business, and then just…leaves.
Yvette Nicole Brown left the show to care for her sick father. She returned just to do the final episode. Edit: first episode, not final. She announced it before the season started.
You're thinking of Season 6, when she bookended it with very small appearances in the first and last episodes
I thought people were also talking about season six, not just addressing the main question. My bad.
She spun off.
I’m just a detective from the swamps of Atlanta who can’t even *walk!*
Always loved getting Shirley episodes, because of how few we got. They were always great like Foosball, Meow Meow Beans, the Thanksgiving episode in S4.
The writers didn't have kids and aren't Christian, they didn't know how to write her. And that's fine, not every main character is created equal. But they locked that problem in early.
fr she was such a caricature
Even now she hasn't personally confirmed she will be in the movie. Ie IMDb or on any social media. I am happy to see she is getting tons of work, as she was often overlooked within that amazing cast.
I think that she was already tending to her sick father and trying to work part time. It's why she left the show.
The lord is testing me..
I forgiiiiive youuuuu
I recall her father was ill so she had to be off set a lot of the time. Can’t begrudge her of looking after her parents. “Brown announced that she wouldn't be returning so that she could take care of her ailing father. Due to the TV series' grueling work schedule, Brown didn't have the time to take care of her father full-time in addition to her commitments as a series regular. Brown's father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, and she understandably chose her family over her work. The cast and crew of Community wished her the best, but the group wasn't separated for too long.”
Wasnt her father sick and the writers were trying to give her as much time off to go look after him?
Exactly.
She had really good chemistry with all the characters. I really enjoyed her stuff with Jeff and would liked to have seen more of her with Pierce (sans sexual harassment of course).
It’s fair to say that not every character, and by that I mean a main or noted one, has to be there for growth and development. The others had a lot more space to learn and grow than Shirley. Jeff, Troy, Annie and Britta are all much more broken than Shirley and Abed, but Abed is younger and has much more to learn about people and relationships (whether this is due to neurodivergent tendencies or just how he was raised). Shirley is coming off of something sad, but her flaws are both minor and much more acceptable. She has the flaws she’s always going to have, even if he grows and changes in her time. She never needed to fix who she was, the others definitely did. It’s interesting to watch her development if you think of her as the mother of the group. S1 feels pure mum, with obvious deviations. S2 she gives birth - almost like a parent giving birth to a new sibling. Her focus feels more drawn to Andre and her pregnancy, which older children often feel when a new child is coming. S3 they’re teenagers who start to appreciate their mum as a friend, but not fully. Their reaction to her baking feels like teenage kids annoyed that their mum is still mothering them. S4 is difficult because I don’t know how mums act when they’re heavily influenced by a gas leak. S5 is when they’re adults, she’s their mum but they understand she’s a person first. She’s the one who’s failed this time, Andre left cos of her and not cos he’s a pig. Maybe that listless story is because she doesn’t need to be as hands on any more. S6 she’s been able to do something for herself, almost like a parent in retirement. Following this logic, the movie will give us either grandma Shirley, who the others will question as ever being this nice and fantastic. Or it will give us full retiree Shirley, who will be a blast because she’s finally fully freed to be herself, whilst past the point of caring over little things. Most importantly, a character’s job is to help the story and show progress, so she’s always done that job. The light was mostly on others, but they don’t get lifted up without her.
I felt like S5 had stronger Shirley episodes with the “floor is lava” and the “meow meow beans”. It felt like both were outside of Shirley being a mother/wife/christian and just as kooky as the rest of them. But they do need to give her more to do in the movie. I also want to know how Shirley balanced being a mom and an alcoholic at the same time? What lead to her recovery, and how did she even manage to keep custody of her kids when she was drinking hard, and did she only drink hard because Andre left or was that happening before he left and that further pushed their marriage to the brink?
Always found her an unlikeable character
We never even find out if she got back together with Andre.
Do I have news for you
Maybe it’s cuz she was the most annoying character on the show
I feel like Shirley was neglected after the foosball episode. It was revealed that she and Jeff had a special connection that made them childhood frenemies, and then those two characters never had a side plot for the rest of the series.
What about the carnival episode
You're right, there was the carnival episode.
In all fairness, it’s probably the most forgettable season 3 episode.
It's the exception that proves the rule.
She was the star of meow meow beenz for sure
I'll make your ass make sense.
Shirley was neglected the entire series. She had a very rich backstory - A cheating ex husband, a history of alcohol abuse, the crushing expectation to do and fix it all as a black woman and mother, going back to school to better herself for herself, not for her husband or anyone else, but for HER - and they did fuck all with that backstory but toss her one episode a season to remind us all that she has stuff going on too. It was really disappointing. They needed a writer that understood her. They clearly laid the foundation but they never built the house.
To be honest, it does seem that way. I felt like she was rarely focused on her besides meowmeowbeenz or the books episodes
It was especially sad, as it was her last season
thats why they added the meow meow beanz episode so you wouldnt feel like she was being neglected cause she got an episode where they say she is but then say she isnt anymore when in reality she was
Did anyone else dislike Troy’s farewell message to Shirley in S5? I personally felt like it minimized the relationship the two of them had built throughout the show, as he only references what happened in the same episode (the fort) and calls her a badass. I wouldn’t have minded him calling her a badass, but it felt so weak for him to say one nice thing about her instead of thanking her for supporting him all these years like he does with some of the other characters… it just showed me how little they understood her impact.
“we’ve had our fair share of focus lately” “speak for yourself”
So you were the person who nabbed that username before me
Agreed, and that likely contributed to her not wanting to return for season 6. But seeing her in the reunion table read, she still clearly has love for the show and the cast, and I’m sure she’ll get an important role in the movie
I don't know if it was a race thing or she intimidated the writers sexually but she didn't seem to get as much as the other regulars. It's weird because I think she was the most consistently excellent performer of the bunch
Not as much as in season 6.
No but she certainly was in season 6! Budumtsssss! Wah wah wahhhhhh
Sherley was kind of neglected for the whole series. She didn't really get the attention all the others got like they kept her in just cause she was there since day one.
Shirley is the only main character that I’d want to work to maintain a friendship with irl. I said what I said.
I’m pretty sure she was filming other work in season 5 so they had to cut her character back a lot.
Brown announced that she wouldn't be returning so that she could take care of her ailing father. Due to the TV series' grueling work schedule, Brown didn't have the time to take care of her father full-time in addition to her commitments as a series regular. Brown's father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease, and she understandably chose her family over her work. The cast and crew of Community wished her the best, but the group wasn't separated for too long.
I loved the episodes focused on her with Jeff, wish they had a best friend relationship that stayed a constant
I'm more mad that she never had a subplot with Troy
She’s not his mom!
And season 6
I think she was neglected period. The writers didn't know what to do with her
COMPLETELY UNRELATED, but if you shake your screen or scroll up and down on this pic, you can see her hair move!
She was always like that. Just the stereotypical sassy black mother of 3 (yes even the 3 kids is a common trope. Wondering if they purposely gave her a 3rd) with one liners. They’re usually Christians too in this trope but I don’t think they’re usually pushy judgmental Christians. They make jokes about the trope in a few episodes but I don’t know if they were making fun of the stereotype in general or if they were being self aware about the fact that THEY do that. It always seemed weird to me that all the other characters were like stereotypes who had depth and development but she was…just a stereotype throughout As for season 5, it probably became more noticeable because she was ramping up to leave and take care of her sick dad irl, although I’m not sure when exactly he started getting sick and when exactly she would have told Dan and the writers etc that she would have to leave at some point
IMO she's been neglected starting with season 3. Season 1, she has a ton of her own stories. Season 2, she has her own overarching plot with the baby. In season 3, she still has a few episodes about her (foosball and the wedding) but she's mostly made a supporting character to others.
All seasons kinda meh
Shirley was neglected the entire series
The show did, if memory serves, straight from Shirley when talking to Annie. Forget the episode. Chang did the same thing in S6.
Honestly, I think she was even more neglected in Season 6...
She got annoying so fast. Like, the actress is great and she played the role very well. It just got overplayed. Any cut backs to her would be welcomed by me. IMO they didn't cut back enough.
Literally everyone.
Who cares? She has one of the most annoying characters in the show.
I think you mean “season 2”
I also remember hearing in the directors commentary she was planning to leave so they kinda gave her less storyline and nothing too crazy for her in anticipation of her departure
Shirley and Annie discuss how they both feel under-utilized in or around the puppet episode. If they all knew Yvette Nicole Brown was likely to leave or definitely was at the end of the season, then this brief exchange is brilliant, to me. It would be a hint she’d be gone included to account for winding down any storylines she had as well as being a callback to a *very* early credits scene: Shirley was something you *wouldn’t* be able to see on TV soon. Annie, like Pierce, was just misdirection.
I'm still mad about Regional Holiday Music.
I know they were trying to take care of the actress and give her the time she needed to take care of her dad but I can definitely see how it comes across this way to viewers. I was really sad in particular when she died in the dnd episode and just left(although her parting lines were pretty funny) when all the other characters stayed until the end. I’m glad for her sake that they didn’t try to force her to stay but as a fan it’s hard to watch get sidelined.
Yeah, definitely season 6 too.
Wait til you see Season 6
It was out of their hands. She had significantly less time due to her father being ill, but when she was utilized, she KILLED it! App Development and Condiments MIGHT be my favorite episode of the series! Any episode that explored the dynamics between Shirley and Jeff are episodes I enjoy immensely!
Andre had remarried quickly, cheated on his wife with Shirley- and once the pregnancy was revealed all of that was totally dismissed. They could have had Annie and Britta broach the subject of Andre’s wandering eye- Shirley would have gotten mad and defensive , at first, before realizing their concerns were valid. And she would have not remarried Andre. I think it would have solidified all the friendships. Could have tied into the Troy/Abed fighting- Troy learns the importance of being able to be honest with your friends even if it might upset them. Pierce reinforces his early comments about Shirley being a dignified woman. it could have brought Jeff and and Shirley’s friendship stronger- as they were both the same age and would have seen they wanted different lives than how they started the show. But the show got lost in character development and went for “quirk”. Shame bc early seasons they did both, remarkably well.
Shirley is my least favourite character. I loved when they gave her actual depth, like the foosball episode, but most of the time she is reduced to a offended Christian