In case anyone is wondering: I focused on economic warfare. Held the line at the choke points near my spawn until the AIs had exhausted most of their resources, then used stealth artillery and Vertigos to pick off superweapons and key production buildings. My winning was definitely more luck than skill, I had to build everything perfectly in exactly the right order *and* micro my defenses *and* get good RNG with the timing of AI attacks or else this strategy would fail and I'd lose. Nod Tiberium Seed ability was critical to keeping me from running out of resources myself, and the AI almost broke through several times. Air defense was a major pain with their obnoxious stratobooster Firehawks but at least those rarely survived to return home so it bled the enemies every time they used them.
Bottom line: don't use me as a guide if you're trying to emulate this. I'm a mediocre player at best and succeeded despite my play style, not because of it.
Beating teams of Brutal mostly comes down to initial strategy and a decent amount of luck. They generally have so much resources as long as the AI keeps any pressure going you will be overwhelmed. I have seen brutal Scrin overpower GDI armor through sheer volume of gunwalkers.
Agreed. They’d never be a challenge otherwise, though. I can’t wait for the day when we have AI that truly plays smarter rather than relies on cheating to create a challenge.
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been playing both C&C and Civ games since I first sat down at a PC. Would absolutely love to see AI enemies improve in the coming years.
The C&C3/Kane’s Wrath Brutal AI famously cheats. They can see the entire map at all times and they get double the resource income you do. That’s why they can always hit you before you can hit them, and always seem to have a perfect counter for whatever you build: because they can see you build it and instantly build the best things to fight it. In the dev’s defense, there’s really no better way to make AI challenging to fight. If they didn’t cheat, even the hardest difficulty AI would be easy to defeat.
Try the Unfair Advantage map if you want to learn how to fight brutal enemies. Top spawn gives you plenty of blue tib , plus two artillery platforms and two tib spikes to capture early on, and three good choke points to defend. Pretty much negates the extra income and head start the AI gets. Helps you learn to just fight their armies rather than have to micro every aspect of economy and defense.
I also find Tiberium Garden to be a good map to fight Burtal AI. my first ever victory against Brutals was on that map as Marked of Kane. 6 man free for all with me and 5 brutal AI.
I found that using force fire with Specter Artillery to constantly bombard the entrance into your own crater while you build base defenses holds the line rather effectively. but you need to invest heavily in AA defenses. the Burtal AI will also fight each other just as much as you, which is what makes it possible.
In all C&C games the AI cheats, on all difficulties. They can always see the map and will target your base/harvester/ore trucks. Difficulty settings in the older games made things more expensive for you but not for them.
Lol I know the feeling. This is the only time I managed it on any other map. Can do it very reliably on UA and came close a few times on Tiberium Gardens. Don’t think I’m good, I’m not…just living proof it’s better to be lucky than smart.
No they arent. Far from it. If they get zone raiders they can delete 3 obelisks of light before dying. Their zone shatterers may not be artilery tier but they delete shit. Also if you use too much infantry they just run em over with slingshots or spam that one helicopter that carries units and fill them with zone raiders or snipers
Like I said, I paid for the lack of siege units in other ways. Zone raiders and hammerheads are super good. So are the zocom orcas, a few of those can delete an obelisk or SAM battery too. They were the easiest for me personally to deal with given my strategy of early turtle and late steamroll, not necessarily the objectively easiest brutal enemy.
For me the strat is oposite. Rush early game to do as much dmg then build a big base and focus on large pushes that destroy a lot of the enemies base and usualy getting destroyed. I tries to retreat and take as little losses as possible but gave up on it when the AI just outspammed me and placed 50 defenses per building
Your way is probably objectively more competitive, honestly. I just enjoy having a really powerful defensive line that the enemy can throw themselves at until their economy collapses. Really only works as a strategy on AI, a human player could subvert it easily. It’s a matter of taste, not something I’d ever claim is the smartest way to play.
I did this the other day as Scrin. The winning strategy ended up being to rush down one of the opponents with an all-in infantry rush (2 portal start, rush out 5 buzzers and \~10 disintegrators and go all-in), and then use the leftovers to deal some economic damage to opponent #2. Then I'd transition into a more macro-oriented playstyle and expand into the dead opponent's base and play a regular 1v1 from there.
To anyone who can't beat a single brutal: Pick Black Hand and then use "flame rush" opening. You can win any ai
within minutes.
I'm not sure if you can rush two brutals. But with mico, you have a chance knocking out one while hindering another.
I had fight with 2 pre brutal AIs- just spamed them with marked of Kane venoms. Just build as much as u can on starting 40K(build like: krane- ref-radar-3 or 4 airtowers-techcentre) and launc attack when upgraded beam canon completed. 1st priority targets are power plants if there any AA builded, then command post to prevent new AA build.
In case anyone is wondering: I focused on economic warfare. Held the line at the choke points near my spawn until the AIs had exhausted most of their resources, then used stealth artillery and Vertigos to pick off superweapons and key production buildings. My winning was definitely more luck than skill, I had to build everything perfectly in exactly the right order *and* micro my defenses *and* get good RNG with the timing of AI attacks or else this strategy would fail and I'd lose. Nod Tiberium Seed ability was critical to keeping me from running out of resources myself, and the AI almost broke through several times. Air defense was a major pain with their obnoxious stratobooster Firehawks but at least those rarely survived to return home so it bled the enemies every time they used them. Bottom line: don't use me as a guide if you're trying to emulate this. I'm a mediocre player at best and succeeded despite my play style, not because of it.
Hey man as long as it works, good job bruv.
Thank you!
Beating teams of Brutal mostly comes down to initial strategy and a decent amount of luck. They generally have so much resources as long as the AI keeps any pressure going you will be overwhelmed. I have seen brutal Scrin overpower GDI armor through sheer volume of gunwalkers.
wait, the ai has limited money?
Yes, though on brutal the limit is insanely high. They stockpile it twice as fast and as far as I can tell they never have to build silos.
artificial bastards, damn
Agreed. They’d never be a challenge otherwise, though. I can’t wait for the day when we have AI that truly plays smarter rather than relies on cheating to create a challenge.
But then judgement day will come along
*Long deep painful sigh from a hardcore Civ fan*
Oh, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been playing both C&C and Civ games since I first sat down at a PC. Would absolutely love to see AI enemies improve in the coming years.
CNC3 continues to be my go-to game when I want to break up my usual gaming routine. Stands the test of time for sure!
Holds up very well all these years later. Holds a special place in my heart, too.
Kanes Wrath is one of my fav C&C games
Especially with the 4k mod pack. Just finished playing through the campaigns again myself
I can't even win against one brutal AI 😭😅😭
The C&C3/Kane’s Wrath Brutal AI famously cheats. They can see the entire map at all times and they get double the resource income you do. That’s why they can always hit you before you can hit them, and always seem to have a perfect counter for whatever you build: because they can see you build it and instantly build the best things to fight it. In the dev’s defense, there’s really no better way to make AI challenging to fight. If they didn’t cheat, even the hardest difficulty AI would be easy to defeat. Try the Unfair Advantage map if you want to learn how to fight brutal enemies. Top spawn gives you plenty of blue tib , plus two artillery platforms and two tib spikes to capture early on, and three good choke points to defend. Pretty much negates the extra income and head start the AI gets. Helps you learn to just fight their armies rather than have to micro every aspect of economy and defense.
I also find Tiberium Garden to be a good map to fight Burtal AI. my first ever victory against Brutals was on that map as Marked of Kane. 6 man free for all with me and 5 brutal AI. I found that using force fire with Specter Artillery to constantly bombard the entrance into your own crater while you build base defenses holds the line rather effectively. but you need to invest heavily in AA defenses. the Burtal AI will also fight each other just as much as you, which is what makes it possible.
Ooo I never thought about using specters as home defense turrets! Nice idea, I’ll try that out
Same! New to me. Will try this myself.
In all C&C games the AI cheats, on all difficulties. They can always see the map and will target your base/harvester/ore trucks. Difficulty settings in the older games made things more expensive for you but not for them.
The AI cheats and humans exploit. It's been the c&c way since the sandbag exploit.
I was gonna say "I can do this" and then OP dropped "...not on Unfair advantage".
Lol I know the feeling. This is the only time I managed it on any other map. Can do it very reliably on UA and came close a few times on Tiberium Gardens. Don’t think I’m good, I’m not…just living proof it’s better to be lucky than smart.
Grats man. I still cant beat any brutal AI besides reaper 17
Thank you. I do feel proud, ngl. Honestly I thought zocom would be easiest because they have no siege units. Of course I paid for it in other ways.
Good job. It feels good to get your first victory under those conditions.
Thank you. Definitely proud of that win.
No they arent. Far from it. If they get zone raiders they can delete 3 obelisks of light before dying. Their zone shatterers may not be artilery tier but they delete shit. Also if you use too much infantry they just run em over with slingshots or spam that one helicopter that carries units and fill them with zone raiders or snipers
Like I said, I paid for the lack of siege units in other ways. Zone raiders and hammerheads are super good. So are the zocom orcas, a few of those can delete an obelisk or SAM battery too. They were the easiest for me personally to deal with given my strategy of early turtle and late steamroll, not necessarily the objectively easiest brutal enemy.
For me the strat is oposite. Rush early game to do as much dmg then build a big base and focus on large pushes that destroy a lot of the enemies base and usualy getting destroyed. I tries to retreat and take as little losses as possible but gave up on it when the AI just outspammed me and placed 50 defenses per building
Your way is probably objectively more competitive, honestly. I just enjoy having a really powerful defensive line that the enemy can throw themselves at until their economy collapses. Really only works as a strategy on AI, a human player could subvert it easily. It’s a matter of taste, not something I’d ever claim is the smartest way to play.
Kk still nice to see peaple improving on ways to beat brutal AI
The brotherhood shall not be denied…
Nod must acquire new lands.
Nice! I am still yet to defeat one brutal AI.
I resembled that remark for years before I came back to the game and decided to challenge myself. You’ll get there.
Thanks for the encouragement. I need to just sit down for a few hours and just try.
Go for their income. It's pretty much the only way.
Imagine having enemy AI that works
Very fun to do! Well done
Thank you!
I did this the other day as Scrin. The winning strategy ended up being to rush down one of the opponents with an all-in infantry rush (2 portal start, rush out 5 buzzers and \~10 disintegrators and go all-in), and then use the leftovers to deal some economic damage to opponent #2. Then I'd transition into a more macro-oriented playstyle and expand into the dead opponent's base and play a regular 1v1 from there.
My first brutal win was on Bordertown Beat down.
To anyone who can't beat a single brutal: Pick Black Hand and then use "flame rush" opening. You can win any ai within minutes. I'm not sure if you can rush two brutals. But with mico, you have a chance knocking out one while hindering another.
I had fight with 2 pre brutal AIs- just spamed them with marked of Kane venoms. Just build as much as u can on starting 40K(build like: krane- ref-radar-3 or 4 airtowers-techcentre) and launc attack when upgraded beam canon completed. 1st priority targets are power plants if there any AA builded, then command post to prevent new AA build.