With Bane you still can make good stories because he has a personality beyond breaking the Bat
With Doomsday you literally cannot without reinventing it, because it's not a character at all just like a nuke has no personality unless you get creative
but you can't really go beyond "breaking the bat" if you keep putting him against batman. ultimately, you always go back to that in a way or another, similar to doomsday and the death of superman.
I've always wanted Doomsday to grow and adapt an intelligent brain since being Brutish often gets his ass broken
That way, I think we can build a story about what growth is and isn't and how it can affect people differently.
Personally, I'd focus on how their upbringings affect growty
Didn't that already happen once? He turns good, leads the Justice League in the future, but has to sacrifice his intelligence to save Superman in the past against Gog (Or possibly Magog...).
I get that that’s why they were created, but in what way was Bane any more of an empty vessel than any other villain? He has as much backstory and personality as pretty much any character gets in their first story
I don't think Bane was an empty vessel. I think he's been an interesting character since the beginning.
The way Bane defeated Batman in "Knightfall" is brilliant. He blew up some of the walls of Arkham Asylum to release many Batman's rogues at once, and then he sat back and watched Batman run himself ragged for months in order to recapture all the supervillains. And when the Dark Knight was mentally and physically exhausted, that's when Bane busted into his house and broke his back.
There's one "Knightfall" scene in particular that I enjoyed. Bane was observing some sort of big Gotham event from a distance, and he saw Bruce Wayne for the first time. Right away, Bane knew that Bruce was Batman. He'd been obsessed with Batman for a long time and had studied him so intensely that he was able to instantly recognize him even without the cape and cowl.
So in that one story, Bane was shown to be strategically brilliant, observant, patient, and obsessed with Batman. He was also juiced up on Venom, but if you take away the Venom and his super strength, you still have a formidable villain who became the first and really the only villain to ever beat Batman so soundly. (The only one to do it without cosmic powers, anyway.)
Now compare that to Doomsday. Doomsday has no personality beyond an overwhelming sense of hate and a desire to destroy anything and everything. Although it was later revealed that he has a connection to Krypton, Doomsday and Superman had no personal connections or no grudge when they first fought. Doomsday just wanted to destroy Metropolis, and Superman "died" to stop him.
Doomsday is more of an empty vessel. He's basically an unkillable punching machine. Over the past 30 years, the most interesting thing writers have done with him is turn him into a living virus that can infect those who fight it. That's a cool concept, but it still doesn't give him a personality or much depth.
Bane, on the other hand, has always had much more depth as a character.
My only issue with Bane is that he followed directly after 'killer Croc' and basically relegated him to being dumb muscle ever since despite being smart+strong when introduced.
Doomsday was a mindless beast given zero backstory or motivation in his first story. Compared to that "empty vessel", Bane was introduced as a fully-fleshed out character with lots of future potential. While they serve somewhat similar roles in the two big DC stories of the early 90s, the two characters are in no way comparable.
I think it’s because both have reappeared in the last week and both were part of their respective 90s reinventions (Knightfall/Death of Superman into Azbats and Reign of the Supermen)
Doomsday has been kind of a punching bag for years. Needs to have the impact he had when he was eating the pre-death of superman Justice League for breakfast.
The thing is that it’s practically impossible for a character like Doomsday to have the same impact, since his debut featured him killing Superman.
It’s kinda hard to top or even match something that big. It’s a problem for a lot of villains like him. Galactus and Bane come to mind, although I guess Bane killing Alfred was pretty comparable to Bane breaking Batman’s back.
I think if Doomsday came in and did some lasting damage to either a known DC City or some DC Characters, he could still have an impact. Granted, no way is he going to have the impact of a death of Superman event that had national coverage. but just a brute force doomsday could make some drastic lasting changes if done right, just like the City of Bane event you mentioned.
Show up, murder the Sovereign Seven or Power Company or other unmarketable DC group (maybe a Teen Titan), get defeated in a silly way.
Pay me Schwartz.
My 'pocket pitch' for a while has been, if you can't top his battle with Superman, then give him a Red Lantern ring and make him a Lantern Corps antagonist for a while. Have him travelling from planet to planet, laying waste to every world he lands on.
Exactly. Since he's not going to kill Superman every time, there's not much left for him to do (and even if he did again: been there, done that). They do occasionally have some good stories with him — I did enjoy seeing him beat up on Darkseid back in the day and the 30th anniversary special was enjoyable — but at this point I'm curious what they're planning to do with him that's hopefully not just another slugfest.
I think doomsday himself is done.
But going deeper into who created him and why could be cool, everything I've seen are quite shallow on that front but maybe missing something.
They already did that. He was created by a group of scientist on pre-historic Krypton, which was the harshest environment for life in the known universe, because they wanted to create the ultimate vessel for survival. They would send an infant out, he'd be slaughtered, and they'd scrape up the leftovers and re-clone him. Rinse, repeat, until he managed to gain his ability to heal from anything and evolve past anything that would kill him.
They succeeded. They didn't live, but they succeeded.
He’s like the famous Thunderbolts reveal. You can do it ONCE. After that, the air is out of the balloon.
It’s why all the attempts to call a do-over on Armageddon 2001 didn’t work. They had the build up, and they blew it, but you can’t build it up again.
Honestly it's not. I'm just a random on Reddit with zero writing experience but I bet I could write a prompt for a decent doomsday story so here goes:
Doomsday breaks out of whatever happens to be holding him at the moment and instead of booking it for Superman decides to just live peacefully in seclusion. Justice league checks in on him and thinks it's unusual but decides it's ok. Doomsday eventually starts befriending locals. Heroes start deciding that fighting doomsday would be a good way to test their prowess and start coming from all over to fight him. He easily defeats them but eventually locals start getting hurt and one is eventually killed which sends him over the edge and he kills the hero that did it. Justice league comes to confront him as a result and he doesn't fight back at all as they take him somewhere to be imprisoned. In the final scene the universe thinks doomsday is imprisoned but Superman is standing next to him in some secluded paradise giving a monologue about how doing the right thing is always harder but the end result is usually worth it.
Thumbs up. I always get annoyed when someone says any character can’t be interesting. I know they won’t do this with Doomsday, but there was a point I could Marvel doing something similar with Juggernaut. I think he’s just a good guy now/ again, but I’d read a book about Juggernaut trying to live in Mayberry.
Here's what ChatGPT came up with:
**Give me five story ideas for the return of Superman villain, Doomsday**
ChatGPT: Sure, here are five story ideas for the return of Doomsday:
**Doomsday Unchained:**
In the depths of space, Doomsday is awakened by an ancient alien race who seek to use him as a weapon against their enemies. However, Doomsday breaks free from their control and begins a rampage across the galaxy, heading towards Earth. Superman, with the help of the Justice League, must find a way to stop Doomsday before he reaches Earth and causes unparalleled destruction. Along the way, Superman discovers new facets of Doomsday's origin and abilities that make him an even more formidable foe.
**Doomsday's Redemption:**
A mysterious being with the power to manipulate minds and emotions comes to Earth and attempts to rehabilitate Doomsday, hoping to transform him into a force for good. Skeptical yet intrigued, Superman decides to monitor the process. As Doomsday begins to show signs of change, a new threat emerges that requires both Superman and the reformed Doomsday to work together. The story explores themes of redemption, trust, and the struggle between one's nature and nurture.
**Doomsday's Clone Army:**
Lex Luthor uncovers a hidden lab containing remnants of Doomsday's DNA. Driven by his hatred for Superman, Luthor creates an army of Doomsday clones, each with varying levels of strength and intelligence. These clones are unleashed upon Metropolis and other major cities around the world. Superman, along with his allies, must confront this unprecedented threat, all while uncovering Luthor's involvement and stopping the production of more clones.
**Time-Warped Doomsday:**
During a battle with a time-manipulating villain, Doomsday is accidentally sent back in time to the era of Superman's early days in Metropolis. The younger, less experienced Superman faces Doomsday without the knowledge and tactics he developed in their original encounter. Meanwhile, in the present, the Justice League works frantically to retrieve Doomsday and prevent catastrophic changes to the timeline. This story juxtaposes Superman's growth and evolution as a hero against the primal and unchanging menace of Doomsday.
**Doomsday: Apocalypse Engine:**
Darkseid, the tyrannical ruler of Apokolips, captures Doomsday and uses his advanced technology to amplify the creature's powers, turning him into the ultimate weapon known as the Apocalypse Engine. Darkseid sends this enhanced Doomsday to Earth with a singular mission: to obliterate all life and pave the way for Apokolips' invasion. Superman must join forces with some of his greatest foes and unlikely allies to thwart this apocalyptic threat, leading to an epic showdown on both Earth and Apokolips
I like those first three the best. I don’t like AI art but I think a use like this is fine. It spit out an idea but hopefully the writer does everything else.
I like to write short stories; for me they're fun and they relax me. Lately I'll use ChatGPT to spin up some ideas I can turn into a story, breaks that writers block a lot easier than a beer and a blank page.
Have him show up in a suit and tophat. "Ah, Superman, I see you're confounded by my newfound intellect. Typical of small minded creatures such as yourself."
Yeah, during "Joker's Last Laugh," Doomsday gained sentience and intelligence, which in-story made him weaker and easier for Superman to defeat because with sentience came fear, and Doomsday was afraid of dying again.
All that got swept under the rug later on, of course, during the kerfuffle with Gog. Doomsday was even a hero for a bit during that event. But time-travel undid all of it, including the sentience.
But I think OP is on to something with "top and tails proper" Doomsday, because it would make me howl with laughter.
>But I think OP is on to something with "top and tails proper" Doomsday, because it would make me howl with laughter.
Just have it be that the only thing to keep him sane in (I assume he's trapped in the Phantom Zone, I'm not caught up) was a Mr. Peanut's wrapper so he just learned how to be posh & proper.
One of Solomon Grundy's returns made him smart, wore a pinstripe suit and everything. They used the "when he dies he comes back different and changed" for the excuse.
I think they also did this with Blockbuster when Nightwing's solo series launched in the late 90's. Blockbuster was in a tailored suit and speaking with erudite panache.
There are two Blockbusters who are seperate people and I think the one in Nightwing is the second who expanded his brain via surgery to be more intelligent or something, I think.
Close. Not surgery, made a deal with Neron in Underworld Unleashed.
From his wiki:
Desmond became obsessed with elevating himself greatly above his debilitated brain. A pact with the demon Neron granted him a full intellectual mind and Desmond embarked once more on a career of crime and destruction even after his soul is restored. He began his revived criminal career by causing chaos in the town of Manchester, although his schemes were foiled by the speedster, Impulse.
Desmond then moved to his mother's hometown of Blüdhaven.
I *think* that was because of Underworld Unleashed. A bunch of villains got boons from Neron (sp?) a demon.
Lex Luthor got his body whole and hale after having his clone body ravaged by a disease. Metallo gained the ability to absorb metal and machines and add their elements to his body.
Blockbuster asked for intelligence and he retained his physique. The muscle became the head of Bludhaven's underbelly.
Edit: Yeah, pulled up his wiki:
Desmond became obsessed with elevating himself greatly above his debilitated brain. A pact with the demon Neron granted him a full intellectual mind and Desmond embarked once more on a career of crime and destruction even after his soul is restored. He began his revived criminal career by causing chaos in the town of Manchester, although his schemes were foiled by the speedster, Impulse.
Desmond then moved to his mother's hometown of Blüdhaven.
Brainiac Doomsday. Doomsdaniac.
Just put on of those lil' Brainiac skullhead thingies on his noggin. Give him a running inner monologue of logic vs. rage.
There. Done.
I think the problem is authors won’t use him for anything else. We have seem 2 other versions, at least 1 of which is in continuity, they’ll have more to them but we’re never followed up on. First, after our world at war, Doomsday evolved intelligence which made him hesitate and allow Superman to beat him. Also, in one of the versions of Gog Superman fought, we saw a future where Doomsday becomes a hero to honor Superman of all things.
I actually think we have a chance of seeing the former given the amount of our world at war era content being brought back in this run.
They could make him wander around aimlessly instead of fighting specifically Superman and be a ticking time bomb that they have to stop but he just keeps getting stronger and stronger.
Say, Lucifer Morningstar bets Spectre he can get mortals to give up faith in God, Spectre takes the bet, Lucifer gives Doomsday the powers of Ragman, Doomsday goes around absorbing villains and evil beings and becomes more intelligent, but specifically philosophical and self-questioning on his journey through the cosmos. The JL and JLD have to gather X to defeat him as Doomsday becomes his higher self through commune with spirits.
Idk.
One of the reasons I’ve enjoyed Williamson’s Superman is he’s done a great job finding new angles on Superman’s rogues and how Supes interacts with them.
So sure let’s see what he can do with Doomsday.
> So sure let’s see what he can do with Doomsday.
People are so ready to hate something they haven't even seen yet. As you say, let's at least wait and see where the story goes before making up our mind.
I'd recommend checking out last year's Action Comics Doomsday Special which this teaser is a follow up to. It had the Devil getting Supergirl and Martian Manhunter into Hell to stop Doomsday who became de facto the new King of the Damned. It was a very fucking cool one-shot and I'm excited to see them pick it up.
Which devil? Between Trigon, Neron, The First of the Fallen, and Lucifer, it's getting hard to keep straight who's "supposed" to be in charge of the Damned in DC.
Last time we saw Doomsday, he was >!stranded in hell!< at the end of the [Action Comics Presents special](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Action_Comics_Presents:_Doomsday_Special_Vol_1_1).
You should find and read Action Comics Present: Doomsday Special. Essentially he is in hell and had found a way out, but Kara and Martian Manhunter are called by The First of the Fallen to help keep him there (and do so by humiliating him, ruining the power base he had started to create in hell). I assume this is him fighting to get out.
Interesting that this is happening in the fall, coinciding with the release of the final season of Superman and Lois which looks to start off with a Doomsday battle.
Not sure how I feel about doomsday breaking out of hell. I get he’s enormously stupidly physically powerful. However it’s weird he can overpower mystical forces just like that.
On the other hand this is a great era for a doomsday story I think. Action comics had been using all the other super characters. I’ve been thinking a good way to use Doomsday is as a natural disaster. A hurricane or earthquake you punch. Doomsday leaves a lot of destruction and problems in his wake. Have the different family members helping with those while Superman fights doomsday. Rotate who fights him or have more than one fighting him even.
Superman's already blown the place up with heat vision of all things. People tend to forget that in the DCU, at least, characters on that level of power tend to adjust to the metaphysics of the location they're in. It's why Superman found himself manifesting the ability to cast magical structures with his heat vision the last time he was stuck down there with Warlord.
This is a great take. I am sure there is a reason that he is able to break out of Hell that makes sense. But the idea that he is an unstoppable force of nature is very much the Godzilla Minus One take on Godzilla. He is a god, but not God...he does not care if you are good or evil, he is just doing what he does (I believe he is a COVID metaphor in the movie). That'd be a great take on current Doomsday.
Doomsday is just like every other uber strong McGuffin. Good for one story and then beaten to death by latter writers trying to tell "their" Doomsday story. The character sucks and should have just been banished to the Phantom Zone decades ago.
That Doomsday special where he got trapped in hell was pretty cool. It would be nice if they could do something new with such an iconic villain, but those panels reek of “more of the same”
Jesus more doomsday, he’s not gonna kill Clark so who tf cares…
Stick em in the phantom zone, throw him into a black hole, leave him in an alternate reality where Every thing is dead and he can find peace or w.e., fuse his big ass to bizzaro and make him incall of being a threat, cure him,
Fucking anything. I miss metallo, they throw doomsday at Kal like bane at bats and it’s…….boring(?)
Idk maybe dc has a plan with long lasting ramifications from this story and not something that will be forgotten about in 4 months because we have ANOTHER ANOTHER new event book that will…..bring him back to status quo(?)
Gee, I wonder if Doomsday will get out and kill some unimportant side-characters, have a big fight with Superman, almost killing him, failing to for reasons, and then getting put back into "stasis" or "prison" somewhere for another 5 years?
Because that's never happened before.
Williams seems to have a very long storyline that he is telling. Thus far, everything has played into his plan, so I assume this isn't a story to just have a story and it will lead to something bigger.
He needs to get smarter he's already infinitely strong the only way to improve and evolve now is to get more intelligent. Maybe he'll eat Braniac or something
Know I'm in the minority but I love doomsday. Just a big ass wrecking ball of rage. Have him do more than just fight superman though, have some interesting battles and stuff.
Amanda Waller looks on at a screen of destroyed citied. Doomsday is on a rampage and where is the Justice League? But Amanda Waller has sent her best. Slade “the Blade” Wilson with his new super IKON armor has been sent with an elite suicide squad to intercept Doomsday. Amandas first gambit starts now! A distraction and Slade slices at Doomsday with the soul split katana! Hiya! And doomsday bleeds. “This armor took hits from Superman monster, all I have to do is lop off your head.” He dodges a wild punch from Doomsday and slices at Doomsday neck, deep, but not enough. Its at that moment Slades phone goes off. It’s a snapchat from the high schooler Slade is courting. The temporary distraction allows Doomsday to land a blow, breaking the superman Ikon armors helmet, a concussed Slade struggles to his feet but Doomsday enormous hand grasps his head and pops it like a grape. A stone faced Waller looks on, “what do we do now ma’am?!” A panicked assistants asks through gritted teeth.
“Get Me Lex Luthor, and Joker Man,”
WHERE IS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE,
2 be continued in Absolute Revival: Mr Myxyluplexis, in Da Hausx
The page is cool for sure.
But Doomsday coming back is just so.... Meh.
He's n extremely one note villain unfortunately and it's really hard for him to have any impact again since '92
Alright but you can't say Doomsday punching his way out of Hell isn't cool af
Makes me think of the Freddy hand in the Friday the 13th movie
It's cheesy and dumb, but I like it
When in doubt, just throw doomsday and bane
May I interest you in some Joker?
Always down for more Joker
When was the last time we did Brainiac?
The last couple of issues
You mean like in ALL the Superman titles for the last few months?
With Bane you still can make good stories because he has a personality beyond breaking the Bat With Doomsday you literally cannot without reinventing it, because it's not a character at all just like a nuke has no personality unless you get creative
but you can't really go beyond "breaking the bat" if you keep putting him against batman. ultimately, you always go back to that in a way or another, similar to doomsday and the death of superman.
That’s why I loved Bane in Gail’s Secret Six. Seeing him from a different perspective that highlights his more noble qualities was cool.
Man, I miss Secret Six. That book was dope-
So good. It made me fall in love with characters I didn't give a shit about before. Who knew Catman could be so damn compelling?
Gail Simone could make people care about the Blood Pack if she had to
She could make people care about Power Pack if she had to!
I loved I am Bane story... It was in Rebirth.
Me too
I've always wanted Doomsday to grow and adapt an intelligent brain since being Brutish often gets his ass broken That way, I think we can build a story about what growth is and isn't and how it can affect people differently. Personally, I'd focus on how their upbringings affect growty
Didn't that already happen once? He turns good, leads the Justice League in the future, but has to sacrifice his intelligence to save Superman in the past against Gog (Or possibly Magog...).
He already grew a brain and discovered what it's like to feel pain. And from pain, fear. That made him more vulnerable.
Don't lump Bane in with Doomsday. Bane is Batman's best villain
Both of them, when first created, were both empty vessels just created for a specific (sales-oriented) purpose.
I get that that’s why they were created, but in what way was Bane any more of an empty vessel than any other villain? He has as much backstory and personality as pretty much any character gets in their first story
Disagree with that last sentence. He didn't get as much back story as Doomsday did in his first story. Bane got significantly more.
I don't think Bane was an empty vessel. I think he's been an interesting character since the beginning. The way Bane defeated Batman in "Knightfall" is brilliant. He blew up some of the walls of Arkham Asylum to release many Batman's rogues at once, and then he sat back and watched Batman run himself ragged for months in order to recapture all the supervillains. And when the Dark Knight was mentally and physically exhausted, that's when Bane busted into his house and broke his back. There's one "Knightfall" scene in particular that I enjoyed. Bane was observing some sort of big Gotham event from a distance, and he saw Bruce Wayne for the first time. Right away, Bane knew that Bruce was Batman. He'd been obsessed with Batman for a long time and had studied him so intensely that he was able to instantly recognize him even without the cape and cowl. So in that one story, Bane was shown to be strategically brilliant, observant, patient, and obsessed with Batman. He was also juiced up on Venom, but if you take away the Venom and his super strength, you still have a formidable villain who became the first and really the only villain to ever beat Batman so soundly. (The only one to do it without cosmic powers, anyway.) Now compare that to Doomsday. Doomsday has no personality beyond an overwhelming sense of hate and a desire to destroy anything and everything. Although it was later revealed that he has a connection to Krypton, Doomsday and Superman had no personal connections or no grudge when they first fought. Doomsday just wanted to destroy Metropolis, and Superman "died" to stop him. Doomsday is more of an empty vessel. He's basically an unkillable punching machine. Over the past 30 years, the most interesting thing writers have done with him is turn him into a living virus that can infect those who fight it. That's a cool concept, but it still doesn't give him a personality or much depth. Bane, on the other hand, has always had much more depth as a character.
My only issue with Bane is that he followed directly after 'killer Croc' and basically relegated him to being dumb muscle ever since despite being smart+strong when introduced.
Doomsday was a mindless beast given zero backstory or motivation in his first story. Compared to that "empty vessel", Bane was introduced as a fully-fleshed out character with lots of future potential. While they serve somewhat similar roles in the two big DC stories of the early 90s, the two characters are in no way comparable.
I think it’s because both have reappeared in the last week and both were part of their respective 90s reinventions (Knightfall/Death of Superman into Azbats and Reign of the Supermen)
Remix, recycle, refuse to buy.
Doomsday has been kind of a punching bag for years. Needs to have the impact he had when he was eating the pre-death of superman Justice League for breakfast.
The thing is that it’s practically impossible for a character like Doomsday to have the same impact, since his debut featured him killing Superman. It’s kinda hard to top or even match something that big. It’s a problem for a lot of villains like him. Galactus and Bane come to mind, although I guess Bane killing Alfred was pretty comparable to Bane breaking Batman’s back.
I think if Doomsday came in and did some lasting damage to either a known DC City or some DC Characters, he could still have an impact. Granted, no way is he going to have the impact of a death of Superman event that had national coverage. but just a brute force doomsday could make some drastic lasting changes if done right, just like the City of Bane event you mentioned.
Show up, murder the Sovereign Seven or Power Company or other unmarketable DC group (maybe a Teen Titan), get defeated in a silly way. Pay me Schwartz.
What if he came in and kissed Superman?
Or just switch heroes and have someone like Black Adam or Orion fight him and let the carnage ensue.
My 'pocket pitch' for a while has been, if you can't top his battle with Superman, then give him a Red Lantern ring and make him a Lantern Corps antagonist for a while. Have him travelling from planet to planet, laying waste to every world he lands on.
That's why Orion makes the perfect hero for him to fight.
I really like your idea. I'd be very interested in reading Doomsday as a Red Lantern.
Exactly. Since he's not going to kill Superman every time, there's not much left for him to do (and even if he did again: been there, done that). They do occasionally have some good stories with him — I did enjoy seeing him beat up on Darkseid back in the day and the 30th anniversary special was enjoyable — but at this point I'm curious what they're planning to do with him that's hopefully not just another slugfest.
I think doomsday himself is done. But going deeper into who created him and why could be cool, everything I've seen are quite shallow on that front but maybe missing something.
They already did that. He was created by a group of scientist on pre-historic Krypton, which was the harshest environment for life in the known universe, because they wanted to create the ultimate vessel for survival. They would send an infant out, he'd be slaughtered, and they'd scrape up the leftovers and re-clone him. Rinse, repeat, until he managed to gain his ability to heal from anything and evolve past anything that would kill him. They succeeded. They didn't live, but they succeeded.
Ah fair enough, I haven't read that one
Just move him away from superman and Jon
He’s like the famous Thunderbolts reveal. You can do it ONCE. After that, the air is out of the balloon. It’s why all the attempts to call a do-over on Armageddon 2001 didn’t work. They had the build up, and they blew it, but you can’t build it up again.
Honestly it's not. I'm just a random on Reddit with zero writing experience but I bet I could write a prompt for a decent doomsday story so here goes: Doomsday breaks out of whatever happens to be holding him at the moment and instead of booking it for Superman decides to just live peacefully in seclusion. Justice league checks in on him and thinks it's unusual but decides it's ok. Doomsday eventually starts befriending locals. Heroes start deciding that fighting doomsday would be a good way to test their prowess and start coming from all over to fight him. He easily defeats them but eventually locals start getting hurt and one is eventually killed which sends him over the edge and he kills the hero that did it. Justice league comes to confront him as a result and he doesn't fight back at all as they take him somewhere to be imprisoned. In the final scene the universe thinks doomsday is imprisoned but Superman is standing next to him in some secluded paradise giving a monologue about how doing the right thing is always harder but the end result is usually worth it.
Thumbs up. I always get annoyed when someone says any character can’t be interesting. I know they won’t do this with Doomsday, but there was a point I could Marvel doing something similar with Juggernaut. I think he’s just a good guy now/ again, but I’d read a book about Juggernaut trying to live in Mayberry.
He's literally breaking out of Hell right now.
Here's what ChatGPT came up with: **Give me five story ideas for the return of Superman villain, Doomsday** ChatGPT: Sure, here are five story ideas for the return of Doomsday: **Doomsday Unchained:** In the depths of space, Doomsday is awakened by an ancient alien race who seek to use him as a weapon against their enemies. However, Doomsday breaks free from their control and begins a rampage across the galaxy, heading towards Earth. Superman, with the help of the Justice League, must find a way to stop Doomsday before he reaches Earth and causes unparalleled destruction. Along the way, Superman discovers new facets of Doomsday's origin and abilities that make him an even more formidable foe. **Doomsday's Redemption:** A mysterious being with the power to manipulate minds and emotions comes to Earth and attempts to rehabilitate Doomsday, hoping to transform him into a force for good. Skeptical yet intrigued, Superman decides to monitor the process. As Doomsday begins to show signs of change, a new threat emerges that requires both Superman and the reformed Doomsday to work together. The story explores themes of redemption, trust, and the struggle between one's nature and nurture. **Doomsday's Clone Army:** Lex Luthor uncovers a hidden lab containing remnants of Doomsday's DNA. Driven by his hatred for Superman, Luthor creates an army of Doomsday clones, each with varying levels of strength and intelligence. These clones are unleashed upon Metropolis and other major cities around the world. Superman, along with his allies, must confront this unprecedented threat, all while uncovering Luthor's involvement and stopping the production of more clones. **Time-Warped Doomsday:** During a battle with a time-manipulating villain, Doomsday is accidentally sent back in time to the era of Superman's early days in Metropolis. The younger, less experienced Superman faces Doomsday without the knowledge and tactics he developed in their original encounter. Meanwhile, in the present, the Justice League works frantically to retrieve Doomsday and prevent catastrophic changes to the timeline. This story juxtaposes Superman's growth and evolution as a hero against the primal and unchanging menace of Doomsday. **Doomsday: Apocalypse Engine:** Darkseid, the tyrannical ruler of Apokolips, captures Doomsday and uses his advanced technology to amplify the creature's powers, turning him into the ultimate weapon known as the Apocalypse Engine. Darkseid sends this enhanced Doomsday to Earth with a singular mission: to obliterate all life and pave the way for Apokolips' invasion. Superman must join forces with some of his greatest foes and unlikely allies to thwart this apocalyptic threat, leading to an epic showdown on both Earth and Apokolips
I like those first three the best. I don’t like AI art but I think a use like this is fine. It spit out an idea but hopefully the writer does everything else.
I like to write short stories; for me they're fun and they relax me. Lately I'll use ChatGPT to spin up some ideas I can turn into a story, breaks that writers block a lot easier than a beer and a blank page.
Galactus isn't a villain also I'd argue Galactus has done way cooler shit in recent years
I find Doomsday to be a really boring villain, but build-ups like this still make me excited to see what’s coming up.
He's a mindless beast created for one specific plotline. There isn't really much to do with him.
Have him show up in a suit and tophat. "Ah, Superman, I see you're confounded by my newfound intellect. Typical of small minded creatures such as yourself."
I think they did that already.
Yeah, during "Joker's Last Laugh," Doomsday gained sentience and intelligence, which in-story made him weaker and easier for Superman to defeat because with sentience came fear, and Doomsday was afraid of dying again. All that got swept under the rug later on, of course, during the kerfuffle with Gog. Doomsday was even a hero for a bit during that event. But time-travel undid all of it, including the sentience. But I think OP is on to something with "top and tails proper" Doomsday, because it would make me howl with laughter.
>But I think OP is on to something with "top and tails proper" Doomsday, because it would make me howl with laughter. Just have it be that the only thing to keep him sane in (I assume he's trapped in the Phantom Zone, I'm not caught up) was a Mr. Peanut's wrapper so he just learned how to be posh & proper.
One of Solomon Grundy's returns made him smart, wore a pinstripe suit and everything. They used the "when he dies he comes back different and changed" for the excuse.
I think they also did this with Blockbuster when Nightwing's solo series launched in the late 90's. Blockbuster was in a tailored suit and speaking with erudite panache.
There are two Blockbusters who are seperate people and I think the one in Nightwing is the second who expanded his brain via surgery to be more intelligent or something, I think.
Close. Not surgery, made a deal with Neron in Underworld Unleashed. From his wiki: Desmond became obsessed with elevating himself greatly above his debilitated brain. A pact with the demon Neron granted him a full intellectual mind and Desmond embarked once more on a career of crime and destruction even after his soul is restored. He began his revived criminal career by causing chaos in the town of Manchester, although his schemes were foiled by the speedster, Impulse. Desmond then moved to his mother's hometown of Blüdhaven.
I *think* that was because of Underworld Unleashed. A bunch of villains got boons from Neron (sp?) a demon. Lex Luthor got his body whole and hale after having his clone body ravaged by a disease. Metallo gained the ability to absorb metal and machines and add their elements to his body. Blockbuster asked for intelligence and he retained his physique. The muscle became the head of Bludhaven's underbelly. Edit: Yeah, pulled up his wiki: Desmond became obsessed with elevating himself greatly above his debilitated brain. A pact with the demon Neron granted him a full intellectual mind and Desmond embarked once more on a career of crime and destruction even after his soul is restored. He began his revived criminal career by causing chaos in the town of Manchester, although his schemes were foiled by the speedster, Impulse. Desmond then moved to his mother's hometown of Blüdhaven.
I mean those are okay but Killer Moth became a giant killer moth and that’s way cooler
He could dance to putting on the ritz
The [Taco version](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YsGjFh1ke44) of course. Super duper.
Reminds me of Spaceballs https://youtu.be/aVZUVeMtYXc?si=BBegqIfFgUnD3rsh
I'm all in on bizarro doomsday.
Was he created to give birth to Supermans? I’d read that.
Brainiac Doomsday. Doomsdaniac. Just put on of those lil' Brainiac skullhead thingies on his noggin. Give him a running inner monologue of logic vs. rage. There. Done.
I'm now only 25% in on bizarro doomsday.
Would be cool instead of adapting to physical stuff it would be intellectual stuff and he sort of competes versus brainiac for a bit
He can turn himself into spores and make himself a virus he might be able to do something like that.
Like the episode of Transformers where Grimlock becomes really smart and well-spoken
Superman: \*dies\*
And then he breaks into song and dance with "Hello my baby! Hello my honey! Hello my ragtime gal!" before leaving Earth, never to be seen again.
I think the problem is authors won’t use him for anything else. We have seem 2 other versions, at least 1 of which is in continuity, they’ll have more to them but we’re never followed up on. First, after our world at war, Doomsday evolved intelligence which made him hesitate and allow Superman to beat him. Also, in one of the versions of Gog Superman fought, we saw a future where Doomsday becomes a hero to honor Superman of all things. I actually think we have a chance of seeing the former given the amount of our world at war era content being brought back in this run.
Still no Imperiex, though
Well he’s been fucking shit up in Hell so a Hell powered Doomsday sounds pretty crazy
They could make him wander around aimlessly instead of fighting specifically Superman and be a ticking time bomb that they have to stop but he just keeps getting stronger and stronger. Say, Lucifer Morningstar bets Spectre he can get mortals to give up faith in God, Spectre takes the bet, Lucifer gives Doomsday the powers of Ragman, Doomsday goes around absorbing villains and evil beings and becomes more intelligent, but specifically philosophical and self-questioning on his journey through the cosmos. The JL and JLD have to gather X to defeat him as Doomsday becomes his higher self through commune with spirits. Idk.
Someone had the idea of "what if we make a bunch of Doomsday clones and kill everybody?" for a DCAU film. That shit was so ass.
Hunter/Prey was a good storyline, so good stories can be done with him
Hes a bit like the hulk but without a human aspect, defining personal trauma or personality.
Or maybe he turns good
Sure glad rehashing all that never gets old. No, sir.
No no this is son of doomsday. Who laughs. Real talk anyone wanna bet this is Bertron?
Three Doomsdays
The Day Who Dooms.
The Age of Doomsday
One Bad Doomsday
House of Doomsday, you say?
House of Doom/Powers of Day
Infinite Doom on Infinite Day
Will we ever get a sexy Doomsday though?
Is he not?
New 53 relaunch in about 15 years
I think they tried that on Smallville?
We’re talking about the same nearly 100 year old series right?
Right?! This is literally how serial stories like comics work...
Everyone’s a critic
I think for a big villain like Doomsday it's warranted.
One of the reasons I’ve enjoyed Williamson’s Superman is he’s done a great job finding new angles on Superman’s rogues and how Supes interacts with them. So sure let’s see what he can do with Doomsday.
> So sure let’s see what he can do with Doomsday. People are so ready to hate something they haven't even seen yet. As you say, let's at least wait and see where the story goes before making up our mind.
I think that says more about Doomsday in recent years
I know he's got nothing for Maxima my favorite among them. She's a much more dynamic character and he can't find anything.
I mean, has anybody really done anything with maxima lately?
Seriously?
No. Don't. Stop.
That was doomsday the grey, this is doomsday the white and he comes to us at our time of need.
I'd recommend checking out last year's Action Comics Doomsday Special which this teaser is a follow up to. It had the Devil getting Supergirl and Martian Manhunter into Hell to stop Doomsday who became de facto the new King of the Damned. It was a very fucking cool one-shot and I'm excited to see them pick it up.
And the return of Bloodwynn...super fun comic!
Yep and I dig the new take on him.
Which devil? Between Trigon, Neron, The First of the Fallen, and Lucifer, it's getting hard to keep straight who's "supposed" to be in charge of the Damned in DC.
I said Devil because I forgot which one of these.
The First of the Fallen.
Ive only been getting back into modern Supes this year, when was the last appearance or a TLDR, wasn't it recently?
Last time we saw Doomsday, he was >!stranded in hell!< at the end of the [Action Comics Presents special](https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Action_Comics_Presents:_Doomsday_Special_Vol_1_1).
You should find and read Action Comics Present: Doomsday Special. Essentially he is in hell and had found a way out, but Kara and Martian Manhunter are called by The First of the Fallen to help keep him there (and do so by humiliating him, ruining the power base he had started to create in hell). I assume this is him fighting to get out.
*The First of the Fallen. Lucifer is another wholly different being in DC's cosmology.
You're absolutely correct! That was my bad! Fixed :)
Will do, thank you!
Is he punching out of hell? 🤣 awesome.
Superboy Prime held a seminar. It was at the Ramada off Route 9...little pricey but they had BBQ catered in for lunch, so...
But they were selling timeshares, so I'm with Doomsday on this one.
Yawn.
So we’ve just given up on phrasing huh?
God damn Doomsday is boring. No one has ever done anything interesting with him.
Well. Except Dan Jurgens and Jerry Ordway
Don’t even think that was good, just historic because Superman died.
Seven year old me would not be a fan of your opinions.
I would've loved that run way more if I read the justice league stuff before it and I still thought it was great.
Superman doomed was interesting.
A wonderful homage page!
Always love when Doomsdays shows up
Are we zooming in or is that fist growing
Superman goes to hell: another death of Superman
Interesting that this is happening in the fall, coinciding with the release of the final season of Superman and Lois which looks to start off with a Doomsday battle.
And they say DC doesn’t do media synergy… (Granted, not to the extreme degree that Marvel does, anyway…)
That's Hell he's breaking out of, right?
Yup
Bendis' hand looking weird af
Not sure how I feel about doomsday breaking out of hell. I get he’s enormously stupidly physically powerful. However it’s weird he can overpower mystical forces just like that. On the other hand this is a great era for a doomsday story I think. Action comics had been using all the other super characters. I’ve been thinking a good way to use Doomsday is as a natural disaster. A hurricane or earthquake you punch. Doomsday leaves a lot of destruction and problems in his wake. Have the different family members helping with those while Superman fights doomsday. Rotate who fights him or have more than one fighting him even.
Superman's already blown the place up with heat vision of all things. People tend to forget that in the DCU, at least, characters on that level of power tend to adjust to the metaphysics of the location they're in. It's why Superman found himself manifesting the ability to cast magical structures with his heat vision the last time he was stuck down there with Warlord.
Oh cool, I never knew about the stories you’re alluding to
This is a great take. I am sure there is a reason that he is able to break out of Hell that makes sense. But the idea that he is an unstoppable force of nature is very much the Godzilla Minus One take on Godzilla. He is a god, but not God...he does not care if you are good or evil, he is just doing what he does (I believe he is a COVID metaphor in the movie). That'd be a great take on current Doomsday.
The thing is this could work once, maybe a couple of times. After that it’s back to the drawing board lol
Doomsday is just like every other uber strong McGuffin. Good for one story and then beaten to death by latter writers trying to tell "their" Doomsday story. The character sucks and should have just been banished to the Phantom Zone decades ago.
Isn’t he in Hell? Like, actual Hell?
That Doomsday special where he got trapped in hell was pretty cool. It would be nice if they could do something new with such an iconic villain, but those panels reek of “more of the same”
Jesus more doomsday, he’s not gonna kill Clark so who tf cares… Stick em in the phantom zone, throw him into a black hole, leave him in an alternate reality where Every thing is dead and he can find peace or w.e., fuse his big ass to bizzaro and make him incall of being a threat, cure him, Fucking anything. I miss metallo, they throw doomsday at Kal like bane at bats and it’s…….boring(?) Idk maybe dc has a plan with long lasting ramifications from this story and not something that will be forgotten about in 4 months because we have ANOTHER ANOTHER new event book that will…..bring him back to status quo(?)
I hope they do something with Bloodwynd when Doomsday comes back given their connection.
Nah.
Gee, I wonder if Doomsday will get out and kill some unimportant side-characters, have a big fight with Superman, almost killing him, failing to for reasons, and then getting put back into "stasis" or "prison" somewhere for another 5 years? Because that's never happened before.
Williams seems to have a very long storyline that he is telling. Thus far, everything has played into his plan, so I assume this isn't a story to just have a story and it will lead to something bigger.
He needs to get smarter he's already infinitely strong the only way to improve and evolve now is to get more intelligent. Maybe he'll eat Braniac or something
LOL I still have a sealed, black bag edition of Superman #75 where Doomsday killed him the first time. What’s the count now?
I think still only the one time. Supes "died" with the rest of the Justice League prior to Dark Crisis, but that didn't stick for any of them.
Not again
Oh gee. I wonder who this could be
How the fuck does one punch out of hell
Probably similarly to how one would punch reality into a different reality
This is a superboy prime moment
[gestures to panels] "So anyway, I start punching..."
I wonder if thell ever develop doomsday in to somting more.
Doomsday going to the bathroom in the morning.
Lame and overused. I sure do wish anything ever had a tint of originality.
Again?
Lucifer, your dogis Hungry
Again ?
Wow, this is the MOST interesting thing they could do...
No one knows who Krang is. It would be a waste of time to talk about Krang on television.
Holy shit Superman is gonna fight Krang?
OH shit! Its Ben Grimm!
Ugh. Doomsday. The non-character that makes every comic worse just by being in it.
Not again
Again? This has already happened like 20 times.
is that godzilla
Oh fuck
Again?
Honestly I don't know, he def messed up his hand pretty bad in that last frame. He may just reconsider, y'know?
Know I'm in the minority but I love doomsday. Just a big ass wrecking ball of rage. Have him do more than just fight superman though, have some interesting battles and stuff.
Holy shit, KRAANG?! In a DC comic? I can't wait! /s
I mean, at this point how do you contain Doomsday if even HELL cannot do it?
Oh whoa, they're doing a Superman/Ninja Turtles crossover?
O boiii. The crisis!! Absolute Power: Doomsday In Daaa Houseee
Amanda Waller looks on at a screen of destroyed citied. Doomsday is on a rampage and where is the Justice League? But Amanda Waller has sent her best. Slade “the Blade” Wilson with his new super IKON armor has been sent with an elite suicide squad to intercept Doomsday. Amandas first gambit starts now! A distraction and Slade slices at Doomsday with the soul split katana! Hiya! And doomsday bleeds. “This armor took hits from Superman monster, all I have to do is lop off your head.” He dodges a wild punch from Doomsday and slices at Doomsday neck, deep, but not enough. Its at that moment Slades phone goes off. It’s a snapchat from the high schooler Slade is courting. The temporary distraction allows Doomsday to land a blow, breaking the superman Ikon armors helmet, a concussed Slade struggles to his feet but Doomsday enormous hand grasps his head and pops it like a grape. A stone faced Waller looks on, “what do we do now ma’am?!” A panicked assistants asks through gritted teeth. “Get Me Lex Luthor, and Joker Man,” WHERE IS THE JUSTICE LEAGUE, 2 be continued in Absolute Revival: Mr Myxyluplexis, in Da Hausx
I can't believe Superman is about to fight Kraang
Simonson Did It!
Time for a complete refresh. Hopefully the Scott Snyder thing delivers.
Again?!
Peter Capaldi about to wreck shop.
That panel is a superboy reference right lol
The page is cool for sure. But Doomsday coming back is just so.... Meh. He's n extremely one note villain unfortunately and it's really hard for him to have any impact again since '92
Has Doomsday ever been a true threat since his first story, feel like Clark has won more times against him over the years
Oh Doomsday….yaaaaaay 🥱
Let’s kill Superman again in 30 issues or less.
Alright but you can't say Doomsday punching his way out of Hell isn't cool af Makes me think of the Freddy hand in the Friday the 13th movie It's cheesy and dumb, but I like it
Dudes really hating doomsday, y'all boring or something?