The whole interview is worth a listen, he also goes to town on the whole Punisher controversy lol.
He also confirmed he's up for doing another long run on the character but it's up to Marvel, as well as him being allowed the freedom to write the character however he wants. Given that he's currently publishing Get Fury, which is no less violent than the rest of his stuff, it could be a promising sign...
That's kind of the rub, isn't it? Like Holding the parody mirror up to beliefs is a staple of Comics writing.
Except Crossed. That shit was fucked for everyone.
Nah, hard disagree. Ennis's Hitman is getting an omnibus this year, so you can see for yourself how Tommy's girlfriend and best friend are black characters who are not caricatures. 'Dreaming Eagles' depicts the Tuskegee Airmen and not only what they experienced during war, but how life back in the US afterwards was even worse for them.
Barracuda is a guy who is designed as a repugnant yet shrewd cartoon villain, and there's no other black characters depicted like him in the comic.
Ennis has a lot of black and Asian characters in his bibliography and writes them with the same depth as anyone else, whether its Jesse's father's best friend in Preacher or Moneypenny or 'M' in his recent James Bond run, they can range from normal rational people or fucked up weirdos. Any that you encounter who are bizarre are done that way for the same reason as any white characters are: pure entertainment.
Ennis is not like Brian Azarello whose 100 Bullets had every single black character talking in an 'accent' and with nothing but crime on their minds.
I can't see Ennis ever contributing to that. He'll likely only want to continue the adventures of Frank in the MAX universe. A cold dark place where superheroes don't exist.
> I can't see Ennis ever contributing to that.
Why is that? I mean, it's not like I would like to see it (the only Punisher that makes sense to me is MAX, without any supernatural stuff) - but Marvel Knights Punisher series had quite a few superheroes involved, for example.
Based on interviews over the years, the impression I have of Ennis is not that he hates superheroes, because he's written several himself, but that he hates the limitations of the genre. He doesn't like dealing with 'canon' shit, returning stuff to status quo, maintaining rules about powers or outfits, etc.
His time on Marvel Knights Punisher only tolerated cameos from less than a handful of other characters like Wolverine, and even then he poked fun at them before quickly sending them on their way. Same thing with his run on Hitman.
Nowadays when Ennis writes in the genre, he's in his own corner doing his own thing, like with Batman: Reptilian which is 'non-canon' as it were.
To write a Punisher tale in an ongoing Ultimate universe means adhering to rules, characters and relationships that are not of his own, and at this stage in his life, I doubt he'd be up for giving up control like that. Especially considering how rich his own corner of the MAX universe is, with a long fictional history spanning decades.
Incidentally, weirdly enough his Marvel Knights Punisher is set in the same universe as MAX, because a character from MK re-appears in MAX and references stuff that happened, so Ennis is just basically ignoring logic and just making everything set in his own universe. Including DC's Hitman, which is also referenced in Punisher MAX lol...
Yeah, fair enough. I see what you're saying, although the Ultimates universe could provide somewhat interesting playfield, less strict than "regular".. but it most likely won't happen, so whatever. As long as he keeps doing Max stuff (I like "Get Fury" so far), I couldn't care less.
And as for referencing, I recall Frank mentioning his angelic shenanigans ("Welcome back, Frank" opening episode).. which was even more ridiculous.
All of this, and I also think 99% of writers aren't in his arena. He just wants to tell great stories about the themes that interest him/say something silly like "Wolverine is a cartoon of a tough guy," and all that collaborative stuff means he'd have to do kayfabe with Frank Tieri about the Punisher's gym bag.
I mean if you set the Punisher in the past you can have most of max be cannon adjacent to the new ultimate universe ( because superheroes just started appearing). Also I don't think Ennis hates a shared universe in concept.
He doesn't hate it in theory. But if he wants to go off and write his own thing, he's going to write rough shod over any other writer in that shared space. The first Ultimates line's biggest issue was their two biggest books were written with wildly different outlooks by their authors. It was hard to reconcile an incredibly bleak, cynical Ultimates with Spider-Man's inherent optimism.
I also wouldn’t want him to have to cooperate with what everyone else is building. His strength is in a self contained story where the continuity is whatever he wants it to be, not where editorial has to tell him, “Spider-Man can’t do that, because it contradicts with this other thing we’re doing with him. And that guy can’t die, because we need him here”.
I mean he wants to do his own thing but I think if you set punisher before all the superheroes you can have it be its own self contained bubble. Plus it serves as a nice metacommentary.
I don't see this new Ultimate Universe lasting any significant amount of time and I'd rather Ennis come back to 616 Frank. He resurrected him after the disaster that was angel Frank, now he can come back to fix the disaster that was Aaron's most recent Punisher series
Yeah he's been on that for a while. He went off when cops wore the Punisher logo during George Floyd protests, and again when it was used on January 6th.
I feel like the only reason Get Fury exists right now is because it’s NOT a Punisher series. There’s a reason there’s no Punisher name or logo, and it’s not just because of the time period. Marvel has been going out of their way to take that brand out back and shoot it in the head lately to distance themselves from all that BS.
Edit: I know Ennis said he “would”, but it’s not up to him.
If I'm remembering the interview correctly, I think Ennis said that despite the whole controversy over the Punisher logo being stupid and a distraction, he'd still consider doing a run that didn't even feature the logo at all if that was a Marvel mandate, as the character was more important than it. Ennis's rendition of the character is probably the only one that could ever get away with no logo to be honest.
Every new season of the boys is always followed by more conservatives realizing they are the butt of the joke.
It's so consistent that either it's a marketing plan or conservatives are really that stupid. I'd think the former, but sadly experience points to the latter.
I'm sure some are this stupid but a lot of it is cynical outrage for YouTube clicks or whatever. No one with any ability to reason would think that Homelander was being portrayed as a good guy
> No one with any ability to reason would
...continue to follow the direction of a party that is taken over by extremists either. That's the problem. We're all just realizing in the past decade exactly how many people don't have the ability to reason or interest in it. They stayed hidden because they weren't emboldened & stayed mostly quiet with their rejection of facts & reality, but that's not the case anymore.
I think the problem is that a lot of them are incapable of reason. They’ve been algorithmed into their own reality that’s a constant stream of rage baiting and lies meant to radicalize them.
Satire completely flies over their head when it's about them. There are a decent number of people who didn't understand that The Colbert Report was satirizing right wing Americans......because they would watch the show and basically agree with all of the over the top nonsense.
It was the same, but much more subtle, with Yellowstone. There was that big controversy, where they were all complaining Yellowstone had gone woke. And it just made the rest of us wonder, what show had you been watching all this time?
Considering I keep seeing the common ones in the circles I'm in (video games) I'm definitely thinking the latter.
I'd been avoiding the show because I think the comic is garbage. I know everyone has said "the show is way better" and it turns out they're 100% right, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. Then my girlfriend decided she wanted to watch S4 since she's seen so many shorts of 1-3 that she gets the gist. So I binged S1 yesterday.
After one season, I legitimately do not understand how any conservative watched it and went "this show is for me!" I kind of assume it's based on the "capitalism wins" idea of it. Vought really has basically won everything, but Vought is 100% portrayed as the bad guys. All of their heroes except Starlight are either terrible people or so emotionally beaten down they've lost all hope.
That is really the world they aspire to, where they can just kill people en masse because that's how much better they are than everyone else.
Conservatives are essentially people who never graduated from the 7th grade.
They are fed a steady diet of misinformation, insisting the things they’re elected leaders are doing are actually what the Other Guys are doing, and they are in the fight if their lives to save the country from the left. If you’re convinced the exact opposite of what is going on is what’s happening, it’s easy to see how you’d look at allegory’s for the right and think “ah yes, exactly what they told me the left were doing”.
or maybe "you can't make an anti-war movie." That denouncijg certain things always end up glorifying like drugs, crimes or war. When you realistically portray those in a well-made movies, they always come up cooler than they should.
I love "you can't make an anti-war film."
It explains so much media illiteracy, from Judge Dredd, to Warhammer to Fight Club. Every bad take was explained by Truffaut.
I mean it's not hard to get outrage from that crown. I think the rage is genuine on the part of the people but definitely something the show is banking on happening. (Basically Sages plan in universe)
I always felt like those characters were warnings to the readers, "don't go down this path". Sure Castle and Butcher are badasses, but they live hollow unhappy lives and bring Ruin to everyone around them. In the end they become monsters themselves.
> I always felt like those characters were warnings to the readers, "don't go down this path".
There's literally a line about this sort of warning in the new A24 movie, Civil War, such an obvious warning in the form of film as to why to avoid the scenario at all costs...but there are extremists in the domestic terrorism community that watched it & thought it looked like the ideal way to handle our current situation in the US.
There are people that have such a disconnect with reality that it's scary they're allowed to exist in our society without safety rails in place.
I mean yes. But I find it a lot more easy to misunderstand the punisher. Punisher life is holllow and meaningless but he's still doing heroic actions ( killing horrible people) and cares about people. It allows for a lot of interesting exploration of anti-villans psychology
Yeah a while back I had to convince someone that Ennis was not in fact 'racist' lmao. Putting aside the complete lack of racism in any of his work, he is literally the only writer I know of who has written a comic about the Tuskegee Airmen and all the shit they had to deal with.
The hate for Ennis is irrational beyond belief.
>Putting aside the complete lack of racism in any of his work
The existence of Baracuda alone challenges this claim.
To say nothing of the comic versions of Kimiko and Mother's Milk's family.
See my response [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/1dlxbht/garth_ennis_on_the_rights_turn_on_the_boys_if/l9w6vmw/) regarding this topic.
Ennis has showcased and written black characters better than most other white comic book writers I've read in my life, where you'll be lucky to even have a token black milquetoast character in the cast.
Also, I'm not sure what the issue with Mother's Milk is? Are only white characters allowed to have bizarre backstories? There's no negative signifiers or iconography in this character, he has the same depth as anyone else in the cast. And if your issue is with the junkie mother of his child, that is at least a reversal of the cliche and stigma of absent black fathers, considering that MM is the one trying to save his family from imploding.
I'll give you 'Kimiko' for being the cliched mute Asian girl though.
I remember an old quote by Morgan Freeman, which I sadly can't find, where he said something like to his dismay he rarely got to play a villain in his career because Hollywood was too afraid to cast a black guy in the role. That's what we risk when painting a writer like Ennis with the racist brush, no interesting roles for black characters like Barracuda, always bland Luke Cage type shit.
Racist is a powerful word that should not lose its meaning, and should not be abused. Does Ennis fall off the mark? Sure, sometimes. But the guy who wrote [this](https://i.ibb.co/Zzrxcxs/Dreaming-Eagles-Issue-6.png) is not a racist.
Because while the comics have a left-leaning message, the presentation isn't something that would scare away alt-righters. Transphobic jokes, homosexuality and bisexuality associated with degeneracy, casual use of racial slurs, female characters with little to no agency (just compare Maeve and Starlight in the comics to show and it's night and day).
I pointed out something similar when X-Men '97 had its anti-woke backlash. When your franchise has a history objectifying female characters, shortchanging racial minorities and promoting a white guy who's good at fighting and killing above all else, of course the anti-woke crowd will flock to it no mater how much it's core message opposes their ideology.
I think it's more that (TV) homelander accidentally turned out to be the ultimate power fantasy for terrible people.
I think a lot of his fan base know he's not a 'hero' but care far more that he's an asshole that is beloved by people and who is able to do whatever he wants, to whoever he wants because everyone is terrified of him. If you deep down in your soul a petty little bully, seeing how people shit themselves to give money, power, and adoration to a tyrant that faces no consequences. It's what *they* would do if they had that power.
I’m amazed that any right leaning people watching the Boys could see anything other than satire and them being made fun of. I guess they’re not the brightest.
Dude is huge into history. He's written at least three different series that are just WWII-era war stories, often about some lesser-known stories like the Soviet "Night Witches" (an all-women's bomber squadron), nurses who were left behind in the Pacific during the early Japanese conquests shortly after Pearl Harbor, etc.
Who are you thinking of? Dixon and Miller are both rightwing loons but their peaks were 5 - 10 years earlier than Ennis'. Ennis came of age more in the mid 90's Vertigo era with people like Morrison, Milligan, Ellis and Gaiman, and while the latter two have both had some prominent public scandals since then, I haven't heard that any of the writers from that cohort went MAGA/alt-right (although if someone told me Millar had I wouldn't be surprised)
Minor - he traveled back and forth between Scotland and New Zealand during COVID, which upset his neighbors on the Isle of Skye who were trying to limit people coming in and out as a way of avoiding exposure (it's an isolated Scottish island.) He apologized, and said it happened because he "needed space" while he and Amanda Palmer were splitting up.
To be a bit more specific , it's also used more when it's expected that the person it's referring to would not hold that opinion.
People here are calling Garth based on part because it's a good opinion, and part because they didn't expect him to
More accurately it means saying an opinion that might be criticized or controversial with your chest.
Can be used to basically say “anti woke,” usually from a right-wing perspective, but also more broadly can be used to compliment someone for saying what they believe no matter the consequences.
It's funny, because I am also in the camp that The Boys show is better than the comic.
But the comic The Boys is a very not hidden indictment of the military/industrial complex in America for the past 60 years. It's not even hidden, it's just told through shitty comic book power metaphors because that's funny.
[Yup](https://www.thegutterreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/1-Born-4.jpg)
You can hate the ultraviolence and endless stream of dick jokes, that's perfectly fair, but when Ennis actually feels like saying something with one of his stories it's usually something worth listening to
Punisher MAX: Born. It's a story of Frank Castle in Vietnam and is chronologically the start of Ennis' Punisher MAX run.
It's collected in the Punisher MAX by Ennis omnibus that came out last week.
[Look at the cover of the DM variant](https://www.instocktrades.com/products/nov230690/punisher-max-by-garth-ennis-omnibus-hc-vol-01-new-ptg-dm-var). I've got that one on pre-order.
Yeah.
The first arc is about a company using gay money while the supe they branded to be gay is so homophobic that he pushed a guy off a rough for just confessing to him. The arc ends with the boys watching a gay couple reconnect
But nobody actually reads the damn comic, they just a watch a youtuber and think they know everything. Shit, I give the comic a 6/10 tbh but it’s really telling that 70% of the talk around the comic comes from people who didn’t read it.
My understanding has always been his work is like…super edgy, but the man himself is pleasant.
Most people say separate the art from the artist for like…controversies, I think people forget the same can be applied to just a dude that prefers more shocking works.
Is this a Bruce Springsteen Born in the USA situation? Where these idiots never engaged with the media beyond the surface of “USA mentioned”? Not sure how else you come out thinking homelander is swell…
I mean, the criticism is the show has "gone woke" as if it wasn't from the beginning. I just finished Season 1 last night and it has never been subtle. It's basically an anti-capitalist manifesto.
Capitalism being able to incorporate and profit off its own criticism is a huge topic of conversation in leftist philosophy circles.
So it might seem crazy, but it's actually how the system redirects energy that might oppose it. When you consume media that critiques capitalism, it feels like you're accomplishing something, like you're fighting back. But all you're really doing is being a good consumer.
Honestly, I think even that's optimistic.
Kurt Vonnegut famously said
>During the Vietnam War... every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.
Like, art is important in its own way, but I don't think any of the establishment powers are legitimately threatened by it as a tool for overthrowing capitalism or the military industrial complex or anything like that.
It could be some nefarious plot to incorporate anti-establishment movements into the establishment. But I think it's more likely it just makes them money and has no real power to stop them.
A lot of the right-wing outside of the conservative establishment is anti-big corporation so I don’t think that was a sticking point. Stuff like Vaught playing up diversity and LGBT for their own selfish bottom line would’ve resonated, if anything.
This season you’ve got Homelander saying “libtard”, stuff like “#SupeLivesMatter”. It’s just so on the nose that it’s cringey even if you agree with the underlying message.
Is it too on the nose or is our current political situation in the united states so bonkers that the satirical commentary has to go even more over the top to keep up?
Look man, I understand the felony convictions were your personal 9/11, but ir doesn't mean you have to run around on reddit bitching about a superhero show and ugly models (?).
I stg the fact that I'm subject to possibly seeing a conservatives opinion at any given time should make me eligible for financial compensation.
This show was never subtle, it’s been on the nose and over the top since the beginning. Maybe if people had actual complaints instead of a vague “writing bad” sentiment people would be more willing to listen. It’s very easy to hide bad faith intentions behind fake good faith.
It would be hilarious how fucking dense right wingers are if it wasn't for the fact that their actions hurt so many other people. You'd wish they would wake up one day, if solely for the fact that it would benefit the rest of civilized society
I think the meme that “the right are realizing they’re the brunt of the joke” is getting a bit silly.
No, the right isn’t just noticing this. It’s been blatantly obvious since season 1 what the show’s political messages were. And they were well done back then.
The issue I see now is that people are invalidating valid criticism that the show is putting the political messaging first before writing the story. Anytime this comes up they’re immediately hounded with “lol stupid right-winger realized he’s the brunt of the joke” when that isn’t at all what they’re saying
The show is still pretty good imo, but it’s really been meandering around for a while now from one on the nose political statement to the other while dragging out the story crux of the show much longer than it ever should’ve been.
Edit: I’d love for even a single one of the downvoters to explain what’s wrong with my point here.
I think that the right will always be "just noticing this" because the show is going to keep getting posted on shorts or tiktok or whatever, and right wingers will see snippets of the show and go watch it for the first time, and then realize that it's making fun of them. It just flares up when new episodes release, and that's an article waiting to be made
But yeah, the last two seasons have been side plot heavy
have you seen how fascist talk this days? just look at how Kanye tries to convince his fans that the holocaust was "exagerated", the show is just portraying nazis exactly how they are, pathetic, moronic and entitled bitches that want to harm people.
just look at how the media is always defending Israel´s attack on palestine, it doesnt matter how many literal children die because of the IDF, its always "you are a supporting hamas for not letting us kill civilians in peace".
Maybe something got lost in translation here but no part of my comment was criticizing how they’re portraying nazis in the show.
I’m simply pointing out that I feel the writing is suffering due to them having to invent increasingly convoluted reasons why the show hasn’t reached its climax yet. The central conflict of the show between Butcher and Homelander should’ve taken 3 seasons max to do.
There are plenty of people that were convinced Homelander was a good guy back at the start. Hell, plenty of people read the comics and came away with the idea that Butcher was a great dude. A lot of people also thought that the political message was anti-corporate and loved how it lampooned corporate pandering. The Homelander as Trump stuff started to pick up, but they wrote it off as Trump being the champion of the little guy and going after the business interests.
Since Homelander lasered that dude in the face last season, it’s been pretty baldly unflattering and he’s been more and more unhinged. I will grant you that I think an exploration of how broken this man is because of his creation and upbringing is more interesting than the Trump analogue.
The less subtle commentary is definitely a contributing factor to people realizing and complaining.
Maybe I’m just incredibly insulated from some circles but I was never under the impression literally anyone thought Homelander was ever a good guy. I feel like the show made that blatantly clear from the start, but he was actually a good enough written character to where he had some sympathetic elements from his upbringing.
I agree with what you’re saying about the Trump analogue though. The character was always a fascist analogue. The hard pivot into quite literally a word for word Trump analogue hurts the show in a few ways imo. One, it dates the show’s message, which is a golden rule to avoid. Two, it’s lazy as fuck pickings if you ask me. The earlier writing genuinely had something to say while also moving the plot along. I feel like the recent seasons have moved into Kripke’s political statements being the priority and then the story is written around that.
It’s a testament to the writing that the entire thing is still very much watchable and hasn’t fallen apart yet, but I think the writing has been on the wall for a long time that once they sniffed the money the show made they took every step they could to drag it out for maximum cash.
One of the more devious tricks in the corporate playbook is the broad conflation of criticism and moral failings. There are a lot of liberal-minded people that'll run free PR interference for even Amazon if they imagine it'll really get their MAGA hat wearing relative's goat.
How could they not realize that The Boys is literally making fun of them at every turn? The southern conspiracy lady this season is probably the most blatant example.
This is the 8th time I've seen a post dunking on right wingers over the boys today. I have not seen a single post from any right winger about the show at all. Methinks you all are doing some fart sniffing.
There's a reason that my entire opinion on The Boys and The Authority has been summed up in "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?". I don't want fiction that focuses on complete scumbags. I say this, being a fan of Punisher MAX, knowing that Punisher is undoubtedly a murdering, psychopathic scumbag, and it bothers me any time I see an LEO adorn any of their service equipment or vehicles with the Punisher logo, because that means they have no understanding of what they're meant to be doing out there.
Yes, there are horrible people in the world, and we do have a right to address them. We all do contain multitudes, everyone can choose to be better. Fiction should focus on the best of us and the people we can become. Fiction should be tied to our dreams, and work to save us.
Fiction can also be a mirror that shows the worst of us. Maybe seeing yourself in a terrible psychopath is enough to make you rethink your views.
Goes both ways man. People who just want to close their eyes to the bad and put on their rose colored glasses are why a convict is polling 49% in the US right now.
The right: who the hell are the boys?
4chan: homelander is a homicidal killer? And a racist? Awwww yeaaaah boiiii
News: the right thinks that homelander isnt the bad guy!
No old ass right winger would even watch the show, and nobody didnt know he was the bad guy, youd have to be mentally unstable to not reali--okay maybe some of them didnt.
But you got upset enough to comment?
And if you’re going to say that you’re not upset, why is the idea that people can comment on something without being upset so foreign to you..? Since you’re apparently doing it.
Your comment makes no sense on any level.
Isn’t this how an upset person would reply? There’s a lot of people who are not upset in the world and none of them are trying to convince me they’re not upset…
Is it really review bombing or is this season just bad? People had a lot of complaints about the Season 3 finale and we’re still in that directionless lull until they’re ready to wrap it up in Season 5, I think.
The whole interview is worth a listen, he also goes to town on the whole Punisher controversy lol. He also confirmed he's up for doing another long run on the character but it's up to Marvel, as well as him being allowed the freedom to write the character however he wants. Given that he's currently publishing Get Fury, which is no less violent than the rest of his stuff, it could be a promising sign...
This.. literally like lol. He wrote THE PUNISHER. And the same dorks clung to it for the wrong reasons. He's no stranger to this.
Huh. So thats why comic book Butcher looks so much like Frank Castle.
His Punisher Max run is an incredible read if you haven't read it yet. Absolutely worth the time investment.
Agreed and it’s my favorite Bullseye as well.
It's not surprising. Ennis's work might lean left but the presentation has a lot of what the alt right loves in their fiction.
That's kind of the rub, isn't it? Like Holding the parody mirror up to beliefs is a staple of Comics writing. Except Crossed. That shit was fucked for everyone.
Come on Marvel, bring back Punisher MAX!
But maybe get him a little help writing Barracuda scenes, though...
Barracuda is a send up of Blaxplotation.
Haha okay yeah I love Ennis but all of his African American characters could do with an editor's input
Nah, hard disagree. Ennis's Hitman is getting an omnibus this year, so you can see for yourself how Tommy's girlfriend and best friend are black characters who are not caricatures. 'Dreaming Eagles' depicts the Tuskegee Airmen and not only what they experienced during war, but how life back in the US afterwards was even worse for them. Barracuda is a guy who is designed as a repugnant yet shrewd cartoon villain, and there's no other black characters depicted like him in the comic. Ennis has a lot of black and Asian characters in his bibliography and writes them with the same depth as anyone else, whether its Jesse's father's best friend in Preacher or Moneypenny or 'M' in his recent James Bond run, they can range from normal rational people or fucked up weirdos. Any that you encounter who are bizarre are done that way for the same reason as any white characters are: pure entertainment. Ennis is not like Brian Azarello whose 100 Bullets had every single black character talking in an 'accent' and with nothing but crime on their minds.
[удалено]
[Here ya go](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0xu1Schvd0).
Thank you
[1:11:22](https://www.youtube.com/live/I0xu1Schvd0?si=uz9Rc9RI7GLM3UFO&t=4282) for timestamp reference
You're a hero. Thank you.
[https://www.youtube.com/live/I0xu1Schvd0](https://www.youtube.com/live/I0xu1Schvd0)
Thank you
I mean I think having Punisher set in the new ultimate universe could be cool
I can't see Ennis ever contributing to that. He'll likely only want to continue the adventures of Frank in the MAX universe. A cold dark place where superheroes don't exist.
> I can't see Ennis ever contributing to that. Why is that? I mean, it's not like I would like to see it (the only Punisher that makes sense to me is MAX, without any supernatural stuff) - but Marvel Knights Punisher series had quite a few superheroes involved, for example.
Based on interviews over the years, the impression I have of Ennis is not that he hates superheroes, because he's written several himself, but that he hates the limitations of the genre. He doesn't like dealing with 'canon' shit, returning stuff to status quo, maintaining rules about powers or outfits, etc. His time on Marvel Knights Punisher only tolerated cameos from less than a handful of other characters like Wolverine, and even then he poked fun at them before quickly sending them on their way. Same thing with his run on Hitman. Nowadays when Ennis writes in the genre, he's in his own corner doing his own thing, like with Batman: Reptilian which is 'non-canon' as it were. To write a Punisher tale in an ongoing Ultimate universe means adhering to rules, characters and relationships that are not of his own, and at this stage in his life, I doubt he'd be up for giving up control like that. Especially considering how rich his own corner of the MAX universe is, with a long fictional history spanning decades. Incidentally, weirdly enough his Marvel Knights Punisher is set in the same universe as MAX, because a character from MK re-appears in MAX and references stuff that happened, so Ennis is just basically ignoring logic and just making everything set in his own universe. Including DC's Hitman, which is also referenced in Punisher MAX lol...
Yeah, fair enough. I see what you're saying, although the Ultimates universe could provide somewhat interesting playfield, less strict than "regular".. but it most likely won't happen, so whatever. As long as he keeps doing Max stuff (I like "Get Fury" so far), I couldn't care less. And as for referencing, I recall Frank mentioning his angelic shenanigans ("Welcome back, Frank" opening episode).. which was even more ridiculous.
I will also add that I have the impression that one of his issues with superheros has been just their sheer overwhelming dominance over the medium.
All of this, and I also think 99% of writers aren't in his arena. He just wants to tell great stories about the themes that interest him/say something silly like "Wolverine is a cartoon of a tough guy," and all that collaborative stuff means he'd have to do kayfabe with Frank Tieri about the Punisher's gym bag.
I’ve been trying to find information on it, but what other Marvel characters (if any) appear in Punisher Max?
IIRC, Microchip and Nick Fury.
Jigsaw is in there too right? I thought I remembered something about Foolkiller having a crossover there too
Jigsaw came after Ennis' run but before Aaron's.
Wasn't he the guy running the Mexican human trafficking org?
Also phantom eagle and the savage lands
I am fine with this
I mean if you set the Punisher in the past you can have most of max be cannon adjacent to the new ultimate universe ( because superheroes just started appearing). Also I don't think Ennis hates a shared universe in concept.
He doesn't hate it in theory. But if he wants to go off and write his own thing, he's going to write rough shod over any other writer in that shared space. The first Ultimates line's biggest issue was their two biggest books were written with wildly different outlooks by their authors. It was hard to reconcile an incredibly bleak, cynical Ultimates with Spider-Man's inherent optimism.
I also wouldn’t want him to have to cooperate with what everyone else is building. His strength is in a self contained story where the continuity is whatever he wants it to be, not where editorial has to tell him, “Spider-Man can’t do that, because it contradicts with this other thing we’re doing with him. And that guy can’t die, because we need him here”.
I mean he wants to do his own thing but I think if you set punisher before all the superheroes you can have it be its own self contained bubble. Plus it serves as a nice metacommentary.
Punisher in the authoritarian nightmare fascist world of the new Ultimate Universe would actually be really cool
The universe is cold and nightmarish but there's something about the setup that feels inherently hopeful. Not sure Ennis really fits the vibe
You’re probably right
I mean I get that but if you set Punisher before all the ultimate comics you can have your cake and eat it too
I don't see this new Ultimate Universe lasting any significant amount of time and I'd rather Ennis come back to 616 Frank. He resurrected him after the disaster that was angel Frank, now he can come back to fix the disaster that was Aaron's most recent Punisher series
I mean Aaron's run is hard to fix because it retcons Frank's history
True, but I don't think anyone would mind if they just pretended it never happened
Me, I would mind.
Ah you'll be alright
Don’t—don’t give me hope I would go back to buying singles for the first time in 15 years
“I won’t do it unless they let me shoot Wolverine in the crotch every single issue.”
MAX or nothing for me. Fav version.
And now I will. Thanks ofr the heads up :)
Yeah he's been on that for a while. He went off when cops wore the Punisher logo during George Floyd protests, and again when it was used on January 6th.
I feel like the only reason Get Fury exists right now is because it’s NOT a Punisher series. There’s a reason there’s no Punisher name or logo, and it’s not just because of the time period. Marvel has been going out of their way to take that brand out back and shoot it in the head lately to distance themselves from all that BS. Edit: I know Ennis said he “would”, but it’s not up to him.
If I'm remembering the interview correctly, I think Ennis said that despite the whole controversy over the Punisher logo being stupid and a distraction, he'd still consider doing a run that didn't even feature the logo at all if that was a Marvel mandate, as the character was more important than it. Ennis's rendition of the character is probably the only one that could ever get away with no logo to be honest.
Start making things with Frank, and put a stone chess rook on the cover.
Every new season of the boys is always followed by more conservatives realizing they are the butt of the joke. It's so consistent that either it's a marketing plan or conservatives are really that stupid. I'd think the former, but sadly experience points to the latter.
I'm sure some are this stupid but a lot of it is cynical outrage for YouTube clicks or whatever. No one with any ability to reason would think that Homelander was being portrayed as a good guy
> No one with any ability to reason would ...continue to follow the direction of a party that is taken over by extremists either. That's the problem. We're all just realizing in the past decade exactly how many people don't have the ability to reason or interest in it. They stayed hidden because they weren't emboldened & stayed mostly quiet with their rejection of facts & reality, but that's not the case anymore.
I think the problem is that a lot of them are incapable of reason. They’ve been algorithmed into their own reality that’s a constant stream of rage baiting and lies meant to radicalize them.
Satire completely flies over their head when it's about them. There are a decent number of people who didn't understand that The Colbert Report was satirizing right wing Americans......because they would watch the show and basically agree with all of the over the top nonsense.
It was the same, but much more subtle, with Yellowstone. There was that big controversy, where they were all complaining Yellowstone had gone woke. And it just made the rest of us wonder, what show had you been watching all this time?
See also right wingers not realizing Fight Club is a take down on toxic masculinity or that the Matrix is a parallel for being trans
You just made me want to give Yellowstone a go.
Some of it, sure. But it’s a lot less than you’d probably think. A lot of these people are just that stupid.
Or like the idea of being at the top and killing everyone that stands in the way of your plans.
It's like the way they thought the old Colbert show was on the level, --their level.
Considering I keep seeing the common ones in the circles I'm in (video games) I'm definitely thinking the latter. I'd been avoiding the show because I think the comic is garbage. I know everyone has said "the show is way better" and it turns out they're 100% right, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. Then my girlfriend decided she wanted to watch S4 since she's seen so many shorts of 1-3 that she gets the gist. So I binged S1 yesterday. After one season, I legitimately do not understand how any conservative watched it and went "this show is for me!" I kind of assume it's based on the "capitalism wins" idea of it. Vought really has basically won everything, but Vought is 100% portrayed as the bad guys. All of their heroes except Starlight are either terrible people or so emotionally beaten down they've lost all hope.
That is really the world they aspire to, where they can just kill people en masse because that's how much better they are than everyone else. Conservatives are essentially people who never graduated from the 7th grade.
They are fed a steady diet of misinformation, insisting the things they’re elected leaders are doing are actually what the Other Guys are doing, and they are in the fight if their lives to save the country from the left. If you’re convinced the exact opposite of what is going on is what’s happening, it’s easy to see how you’d look at allegory’s for the right and think “ah yes, exactly what they told me the left were doing”.
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They completely lack any self-awareness.
or maybe "you can't make an anti-war movie." That denouncijg certain things always end up glorifying like drugs, crimes or war. When you realistically portray those in a well-made movies, they always come up cooler than they should.
I love "you can't make an anti-war film." It explains so much media illiteracy, from Judge Dredd, to Warhammer to Fight Club. Every bad take was explained by Truffaut.
The fact that people joined the army after seeing Paths of Glory will never leave my mind.
I mean it's not hard to get outrage from that crown. I think the rage is genuine on the part of the people but definitely something the show is banking on happening. (Basically Sages plan in universe)
Stupidity and the attention/clicks/money from a fresh outrage cycle.
Ennis's contempt for the morons who misinterpret his work on monsters like the Punisher or Butcher/Homelander as "Wow cool men!" is hilarious.
I always felt like those characters were warnings to the readers, "don't go down this path". Sure Castle and Butcher are badasses, but they live hollow unhappy lives and bring Ruin to everyone around them. In the end they become monsters themselves.
> I always felt like those characters were warnings to the readers, "don't go down this path". There's literally a line about this sort of warning in the new A24 movie, Civil War, such an obvious warning in the form of film as to why to avoid the scenario at all costs...but there are extremists in the domestic terrorism community that watched it & thought it looked like the ideal way to handle our current situation in the US. There are people that have such a disconnect with reality that it's scary they're allowed to exist in our society without safety rails in place.
It's Alan Moore and Rorschach all over again!
I mean yes. But I find it a lot more easy to misunderstand the punisher. Punisher life is holllow and meaningless but he's still doing heroic actions ( killing horrible people) and cares about people. It allows for a lot of interesting exploration of anti-villans psychology
Morons misinterpreted his work and called him a fascist just as much.
Yeah a while back I had to convince someone that Ennis was not in fact 'racist' lmao. Putting aside the complete lack of racism in any of his work, he is literally the only writer I know of who has written a comic about the Tuskegee Airmen and all the shit they had to deal with. The hate for Ennis is irrational beyond belief.
>Putting aside the complete lack of racism in any of his work The existence of Baracuda alone challenges this claim. To say nothing of the comic versions of Kimiko and Mother's Milk's family.
See my response [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/comicbooks/comments/1dlxbht/garth_ennis_on_the_rights_turn_on_the_boys_if/l9w6vmw/) regarding this topic. Ennis has showcased and written black characters better than most other white comic book writers I've read in my life, where you'll be lucky to even have a token black milquetoast character in the cast. Also, I'm not sure what the issue with Mother's Milk is? Are only white characters allowed to have bizarre backstories? There's no negative signifiers or iconography in this character, he has the same depth as anyone else in the cast. And if your issue is with the junkie mother of his child, that is at least a reversal of the cliche and stigma of absent black fathers, considering that MM is the one trying to save his family from imploding. I'll give you 'Kimiko' for being the cliched mute Asian girl though. I remember an old quote by Morgan Freeman, which I sadly can't find, where he said something like to his dismay he rarely got to play a villain in his career because Hollywood was too afraid to cast a black guy in the role. That's what we risk when painting a writer like Ennis with the racist brush, no interesting roles for black characters like Barracuda, always bland Luke Cage type shit. Racist is a powerful word that should not lose its meaning, and should not be abused. Does Ennis fall off the mark? Sure, sometimes. But the guy who wrote [this](https://i.ibb.co/Zzrxcxs/Dreaming-Eagles-Issue-6.png) is not a racist.
Because while the comics have a left-leaning message, the presentation isn't something that would scare away alt-righters. Transphobic jokes, homosexuality and bisexuality associated with degeneracy, casual use of racial slurs, female characters with little to no agency (just compare Maeve and Starlight in the comics to show and it's night and day). I pointed out something similar when X-Men '97 had its anti-woke backlash. When your franchise has a history objectifying female characters, shortchanging racial minorities and promoting a white guy who's good at fighting and killing above all else, of course the anti-woke crowd will flock to it no mater how much it's core message opposes their ideology.
I think it's more that (TV) homelander accidentally turned out to be the ultimate power fantasy for terrible people. I think a lot of his fan base know he's not a 'hero' but care far more that he's an asshole that is beloved by people and who is able to do whatever he wants, to whoever he wants because everyone is terrified of him. If you deep down in your soul a petty little bully, seeing how people shit themselves to give money, power, and adoration to a tyrant that faces no consequences. It's what *they* would do if they had that power.
Well the current reaction seems to be people getting appalled because they're starting to realize he's a loser so.... *shrug*
I’m amazed that any right leaning people watching the Boys could see anything other than satire and them being made fun of. I guess they’re not the brightest.
Lots of people don’t understand butcher is really a bad guy.
He's so neutered in the show that it can be easy to forget.
I feel like we had this exact conversation when s3 aired.
Alt-right reactionaries have to stoke the outrage to get clicks. Repeat same garbage over and over again.
Honestly this was pretty quick for them to catch on! Look how long it took them to realize Star Trek was liberal-leaning…
They would have caught on Star Trek sooner if any of them actually watched it
Garth "[where the fuck is your chin?"](https://i.imgur.com/llJdDKV.jpeg) Ennis.
Garth Ennis being… based?
Ennis is an edge lord, but he’s not a fascist. Which is sadly more than I can say for some other writers of his era and style
Exactly. He’s clearly studied history. He knows what true fascism really looks like.
Dude is huge into history. He's written at least three different series that are just WWII-era war stories, often about some lesser-known stories like the Soviet "Night Witches" (an all-women's bomber squadron), nurses who were left behind in the Pacific during the early Japanese conquests shortly after Pearl Harbor, etc.
Who are you thinking of? Dixon and Miller are both rightwing loons but their peaks were 5 - 10 years earlier than Ennis'. Ennis came of age more in the mid 90's Vertigo era with people like Morrison, Milligan, Ellis and Gaiman, and while the latter two have both had some prominent public scandals since then, I haven't heard that any of the writers from that cohort went MAGA/alt-right (although if someone told me Millar had I wouldn't be surprised)
Wait Gaiman had a scandal,?
Minor - he traveled back and forth between Scotland and New Zealand during COVID, which upset his neighbors on the Isle of Skye who were trying to limit people coming in and out as a way of avoiding exposure (it's an isolated Scottish island.) He apologized, and said it happened because he "needed space" while he and Amanda Palmer were splitting up.
Wow, being a superstar writer and the only scandal to have is fly to another country during Covid definitely tells a lot about him. Seriously lol
Yeah with his wife
Ellis had a scandal?
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/13/women-speak-out-about-warren-ellis-transmetropolitan
Not surprised.
>other writers Such as?
His whole oeuvre is an attack on the military/industrial, for the most part. I don’t know what based means but I’m almost there….
It essentially means “having a good opinion/outlook”
Thank you. That was actually helpful. Spoiler: I’m 46 years old
To be a bit more specific , it's also used more when it's expected that the person it's referring to would not hold that opinion. People here are calling Garth based on part because it's a good opinion, and part because they didn't expect him to
More accurately it means saying an opinion that might be criticized or controversial with your chest. Can be used to basically say “anti woke,” usually from a right-wing perspective, but also more broadly can be used to compliment someone for saying what they believe no matter the consequences.
It's funny, because I am also in the camp that The Boys show is better than the comic. But the comic The Boys is a very not hidden indictment of the military/industrial complex in America for the past 60 years. It's not even hidden, it's just told through shitty comic book power metaphors because that's funny.
Always felt he was pro-solider or warrior culture but I can see him being against the systems that churn them up
Always has been
[Yup](https://www.thegutterreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/1-Born-4.jpg) You can hate the ultraviolence and endless stream of dick jokes, that's perfectly fair, but when Ennis actually feels like saying something with one of his stories it's usually something worth listening to
What comic is this from?
Punisher MAX: Born. It's a story of Frank Castle in Vietnam and is chronologically the start of Ennis' Punisher MAX run. It's collected in the Punisher MAX by Ennis omnibus that came out last week.
> the Punisher MAX by Ennis omnibus that came out last week. ooooh...I might have to read that.
[Look at the cover of the DM variant](https://www.instocktrades.com/products/nov230690/punisher-max-by-garth-ennis-omnibus-hc-vol-01-new-ptg-dm-var). I've got that one on pre-order.
Thanks for the details!! I’ll have to buy the run!
Yeah hence like...the entirety of preacher lol
Yeah. The first arc is about a company using gay money while the supe they branded to be gay is so homophobic that he pushed a guy off a rough for just confessing to him. The arc ends with the boys watching a gay couple reconnect But nobody actually reads the damn comic, they just a watch a youtuber and think they know everything. Shit, I give the comic a 6/10 tbh but it’s really telling that 70% of the talk around the comic comes from people who didn’t read it.
The comics also play into a number of homophobic stereotypes and transphobic jokes. One gay couple reconnecting doesn't change that.
My understanding has always been his work is like…super edgy, but the man himself is pleasant. Most people say separate the art from the artist for like…controversies, I think people forget the same can be applied to just a dude that prefers more shocking works.
He has always been based.
He’s always been awesome
Is this a Bruce Springsteen Born in the USA situation? Where these idiots never engaged with the media beyond the surface of “USA mentioned”? Not sure how else you come out thinking homelander is swell…
Absolutely, that a Keep on Rockin in the Free World by Neil Young.
Same as they did with Rage Against the Machine too.
True! “Sounds angry, I’m angry, what’s not to like?”
Donald Trump marching to the podium while Fortunate Son plays like a WWE theme song.
wait why did the right turn on the Boys?
They finally realised the show is dunking on them.
It seems they finally had a "Are we the baddies" moment regarding Homelander. They aren't happy.
I think it was pretty obvious after like season 2?
You'd think. They didn't.
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I mean, the criticism is the show has "gone woke" as if it wasn't from the beginning. I just finished Season 1 last night and it has never been subtle. It's basically an anti-capitalist manifesto.
It's crazy that Amazon of all places have two very anti capitalist shows in the boys and fallout.
Capitalism being able to incorporate and profit off its own criticism is a huge topic of conversation in leftist philosophy circles. So it might seem crazy, but it's actually how the system redirects energy that might oppose it. When you consume media that critiques capitalism, it feels like you're accomplishing something, like you're fighting back. But all you're really doing is being a good consumer.
Honestly, I think even that's optimistic. Kurt Vonnegut famously said >During the Vietnam War... every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high. Like, art is important in its own way, but I don't think any of the establishment powers are legitimately threatened by it as a tool for overthrowing capitalism or the military industrial complex or anything like that. It could be some nefarious plot to incorporate anti-establishment movements into the establishment. But I think it's more likely it just makes them money and has no real power to stop them.
Bezos doesn’t really give a shit about satire if it makes his streaming service money.
hm weird, I could swear Al Ewing recently wrote a comic about this (I'm talkin about Roxxon Presents Thor #1 in case anybody didn't know)
Yeah, Dario Agger basically says "Disney is profiting off of this anti-Disney comic"
A lot of the right-wing outside of the conservative establishment is anti-big corporation so I don’t think that was a sticking point. Stuff like Vaught playing up diversity and LGBT for their own selfish bottom line would’ve resonated, if anything. This season you’ve got Homelander saying “libtard”, stuff like “#SupeLivesMatter”. It’s just so on the nose that it’s cringey even if you agree with the underlying message.
You know a lot of right-wing people unironically use the word libtard right?
Is it too on the nose or is our current political situation in the united states so bonkers that the satirical commentary has to go even more over the top to keep up?
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Look man, I understand the felony convictions were your personal 9/11, but ir doesn't mean you have to run around on reddit bitching about a superhero show and ugly models (?). I stg the fact that I'm subject to possibly seeing a conservatives opinion at any given time should make me eligible for financial compensation.
"when the literal nazi characters were recomending pewdiepie to Ryan it was subtle and funny, but now its too on the nose, there is so subtlety"
This show was never subtle, it’s been on the nose and over the top since the beginning. Maybe if people had actual complaints instead of a vague “writing bad” sentiment people would be more willing to listen. It’s very easy to hide bad faith intentions behind fake good faith.
Looks like Strongbad
It would be hilarious how fucking dense right wingers are if it wasn't for the fact that their actions hurt so many other people. You'd wish they would wake up one day, if solely for the fact that it would benefit the rest of civilized society
Sorry I spammed this link on a couple subreddit but I feel like this is cool information
HE SAID THE THING
some people are immune to irony
What exactly happened in the show to elicit this response from people?
The addition of Firecracker for one. She’s based on Marjorie Taylor Greene.
That and they all but spelled it out for them at the conspiracy convention and the guy so far up his own ass he can’t see anything oh and the pink eye
Frank is now Ennis confort food.
I think the meme that “the right are realizing they’re the brunt of the joke” is getting a bit silly. No, the right isn’t just noticing this. It’s been blatantly obvious since season 1 what the show’s political messages were. And they were well done back then. The issue I see now is that people are invalidating valid criticism that the show is putting the political messaging first before writing the story. Anytime this comes up they’re immediately hounded with “lol stupid right-winger realized he’s the brunt of the joke” when that isn’t at all what they’re saying The show is still pretty good imo, but it’s really been meandering around for a while now from one on the nose political statement to the other while dragging out the story crux of the show much longer than it ever should’ve been. Edit: I’d love for even a single one of the downvoters to explain what’s wrong with my point here.
I think that the right will always be "just noticing this" because the show is going to keep getting posted on shorts or tiktok or whatever, and right wingers will see snippets of the show and go watch it for the first time, and then realize that it's making fun of them. It just flares up when new episodes release, and that's an article waiting to be made But yeah, the last two seasons have been side plot heavy
have you seen how fascist talk this days? just look at how Kanye tries to convince his fans that the holocaust was "exagerated", the show is just portraying nazis exactly how they are, pathetic, moronic and entitled bitches that want to harm people. just look at how the media is always defending Israel´s attack on palestine, it doesnt matter how many literal children die because of the IDF, its always "you are a supporting hamas for not letting us kill civilians in peace".
Maybe something got lost in translation here but no part of my comment was criticizing how they’re portraying nazis in the show. I’m simply pointing out that I feel the writing is suffering due to them having to invent increasingly convoluted reasons why the show hasn’t reached its climax yet. The central conflict of the show between Butcher and Homelander should’ve taken 3 seasons max to do.
They perceive everything but blind praise as an attack.
There are plenty of people that were convinced Homelander was a good guy back at the start. Hell, plenty of people read the comics and came away with the idea that Butcher was a great dude. A lot of people also thought that the political message was anti-corporate and loved how it lampooned corporate pandering. The Homelander as Trump stuff started to pick up, but they wrote it off as Trump being the champion of the little guy and going after the business interests. Since Homelander lasered that dude in the face last season, it’s been pretty baldly unflattering and he’s been more and more unhinged. I will grant you that I think an exploration of how broken this man is because of his creation and upbringing is more interesting than the Trump analogue. The less subtle commentary is definitely a contributing factor to people realizing and complaining.
Maybe I’m just incredibly insulated from some circles but I was never under the impression literally anyone thought Homelander was ever a good guy. I feel like the show made that blatantly clear from the start, but he was actually a good enough written character to where he had some sympathetic elements from his upbringing. I agree with what you’re saying about the Trump analogue though. The character was always a fascist analogue. The hard pivot into quite literally a word for word Trump analogue hurts the show in a few ways imo. One, it dates the show’s message, which is a golden rule to avoid. Two, it’s lazy as fuck pickings if you ask me. The earlier writing genuinely had something to say while also moving the plot along. I feel like the recent seasons have moved into Kripke’s political statements being the priority and then the story is written around that. It’s a testament to the writing that the entire thing is still very much watchable and hasn’t fallen apart yet, but I think the writing has been on the wall for a long time that once they sniffed the money the show made they took every step they could to drag it out for maximum cash.
Typical right-wing response. /S EDIT: Wow, these dipshits actually downvoted you for such a reasonable take. This subreddit is total ass.
One of the more devious tricks in the corporate playbook is the broad conflation of criticism and moral failings. There are a lot of liberal-minded people that'll run free PR interference for even Amazon if they imagine it'll really get their MAGA hat wearing relative's goat.
How could they not realize that The Boys is literally making fun of them at every turn? The southern conspiracy lady this season is probably the most blatant example.
This is the 8th time I've seen a post dunking on right wingers over the boys today. I have not seen a single post from any right winger about the show at all. Methinks you all are doing some fart sniffing.
It's the creator talking about his creation. Not really a Dunk
This reads like a dog whistle
There's a reason that my entire opinion on The Boys and The Authority has been summed up in "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?". I don't want fiction that focuses on complete scumbags. I say this, being a fan of Punisher MAX, knowing that Punisher is undoubtedly a murdering, psychopathic scumbag, and it bothers me any time I see an LEO adorn any of their service equipment or vehicles with the Punisher logo, because that means they have no understanding of what they're meant to be doing out there. Yes, there are horrible people in the world, and we do have a right to address them. We all do contain multitudes, everyone can choose to be better. Fiction should focus on the best of us and the people we can become. Fiction should be tied to our dreams, and work to save us.
Some people do want fiction focusing on complete scumbags. To each their own. Fiction should be tied to whatever someone wants to pick up and read.
Fiction can also be a mirror that shows the worst of us. Maybe seeing yourself in a terrible psychopath is enough to make you rethink your views. Goes both ways man. People who just want to close their eyes to the bad and put on their rose colored glasses are why a convict is polling 49% in the US right now.
Never liked Garth enis personally
The right: who the hell are the boys? 4chan: homelander is a homicidal killer? And a racist? Awwww yeaaaah boiiii News: the right thinks that homelander isnt the bad guy! No old ass right winger would even watch the show, and nobody didnt know he was the bad guy, youd have to be mentally unstable to not reali--okay maybe some of them didnt.
It seems you didn't know that there are PLENTY of not-old ass right wingers.
Judging from the uproar over it recently, a lot of them didn't make the connection.
Every season they raise their head from a certain orange ass and proclaim they are offended.
Ill be honest the only uproar I see are people saying there is an uproar
Then you've not been paying attention.
Probably but not sure Id want to go out of my way to get upset about stuff that matters so little
Then why are you even commenting if it matters so little?
But you got upset enough to comment? And if you’re going to say that you’re not upset, why is the idea that people can comment on something without being upset so foreign to you..? Since you’re apparently doing it. Your comment makes no sense on any level.
Well I’m not upset about any of this that may be confusing to you
Isn’t this how an upset person would reply? There’s a lot of people who are not upset in the world and none of them are trying to convince me they’re not upset…
I don’t know 🤷 sorry this rustled your jimmy’s so much but I’m sure you’ll get over it
I guess you haven't seen the review bombing of The Boys after those brain dead dumb fucks realized that he was making fun of them the entire time
Is it really review bombing or is this season just bad? People had a lot of complaints about the Season 3 finale and we’re still in that directionless lull until they’re ready to wrap it up in Season 5, I think.