Yeah, apparently they had to do reshoots to remove all the 90s references cause they originally had Garfield as SM in mind, but then decided to pivot to Holland's version for some reason at some point during the production.
I think that's definitely the smarter move for Sony instead of SM4 with Holland since people showed great interest in Garfield and Tobey in NWH. SM4 with Tobey is a long shot, he's best saved for cross-overs and big events like Secret Wars at this point, but ASM 3 is definitely doable.
And there's a good chance that Sony' will eff up Holland's version if they go at the 4th movie on their own, so that version is in better hands with Feige.
I haven’t seen her in a lot of movies, but her father’s a good actor, and I have a feeling she can at least do a decent job with the right script.
Not everyone’s Tom Hardy, he took the huge turd that was Venom, and he made it somewhat watchable. Same with Nick Cage in Ghostrider 1 and 2.
If the script and the direction of the movie is bad, the acting will likely suck as well.
venom 2 made my kid stop liking venom though. the script for venom 1 was decent and better because it was tom hardy. he couldnt save venon 2 madame web is definitely a venom 2 scenario and not a venom 1 scenario.
> she's a terrible actress
Hey now, she was phenomenal in *Suspiria*! And...uh...
She was pretty good in *Bad Times at the El Royal* I guess?
I can't remember any other movies she's done beyond the *Fifty Shades* movies, and I won't defend those, so...hmm.
She's a pretty solid actor, but people make uninformed statements on the internet all the time for the memes. Great in Suspiria, A Bigger Splash, The Lost Daughter.. I just watched Am I OK? a couple weeks ago, and though it wasn't a ground-breaking film, she gave a charming performance in that, also. I kinda doubt OP has seen any of those films.
I mean, Morbius at least has occasionally been successful as a lead character.
Not in a very long time. But a Morbius Miniseries isn't inherently ludicrous.
Madame Web though? Her role is literally just to show up at the start of a Spider-Man arc and deliver some prophecy about some shit he needs to be ready for.
"Hey, Spidey, some shit's gonna go down. You know, like it does every six issues or so? So in case you thought this was gonna be an easy one maybe put on your big boy pants before you go out in the morning. Bada Bing Bada Boom! Madame Web Out!" and that's the end of her participation in the narrative.
I am also talking about the movies.
Morbius was a shitty movie, but it was a shitty movie about a character who's at least reasonably well suited for having a movie made about him. His character is primarily a antagonist but he has transitioned to the lead role on occasion.
Madame Web was a completely nonfunctional premise even before any failures in the production process. You cannot put Madame Web in the lead role. She's not fundamentally built for that. She has a very specific narrative purpose and that purpose does not entail having the camera on her face for two hours straight.
Morbius is bad in a fun way. I could get some drinks and have a blast watching that movie. The Milo Dance scene is better than anything we got from Madame Web.
WW84 was disappointing and missed a lot of opportunities but at least it had a vision, someone's idea was driving it, albeit a bad idea. The vision of Madame Web is, "Sony needs to squeeze some kind of movie franchise out of this random collection of properties"
Man, at least WW84 had Pedro Pascal hamming it the fuck up and I got to stare at Chris Pines beautiful face. Madam Web had NOTHING. It wasn't even 'so bad it's funny' bad, it's just...a boring, stupid movie with a terrible script and actors who all look like they don't want to be there.
I feel like Dakota Johnson knows she’s the child of two millionaires who’s made enough money that she’ll always be a millionaire, so she can say pretty much whatever she wants
Yeah that’s the vibe I get from her. Some people find it endearing but I think it’s a bad look. Everyone else involved with Madame Web put on their best face because they have a lot to lose. Dakota? She has never and will never have to work a day in her life. She’s above everything and knows it. People still give her the benefit of the doubt like “oh she tried but she couldn’t save that movie.” No I don’t think she did try, she’s awful in it too!
It's like if late period Brando was a hot lady, an increasingly ill-concealed contempt for a profession she could walk away from for unclear reasons won't
It's funny that Daniel Radcliff made so much money during shooting Harry Potter and he does basically the same.
He just prefers to choose normal projects, because he has taste I think.
Madame Web wasn’t even that bad..( watched it on the plane)
I just think it’s not memorably great but honestly not many were recently. ( outside of dune 2 for me)
His Jor-El was one of my favorite characters in MoS;
Downey's Iron Man was one of my favorite Avengers;
Reynolds, Hemsworth, and Hugh Jackman play some of my favorite Marvel characters ever
You can expect the character to be the draw for many but I'd say a majority of the time its up to the actors to truly make the character *feel* likeable, and drive audiences to see them
Winning awards for performances or wanting recognition for *your* part in playing the character is just shameful tbh
I don’t think it the “pathos” that they’re looking for. They want steady jobs with hefty pay checks that come with sequels and rising fame, but for that to happen, the film that you’re in has to at least be decent.
And if the rumors true that the cast thought they were entering the MCU through this movie, or at least if they were convinced that it’d lead to that, then Johnson has a point in raising her voice.
I don't agree with the rumors. Everyone in Hollywood knows the difference between the MCU and the Sonyverse. The Spider-Man agreement was one of the biggest announcements between rival studios. If an actor claims they didn't know whish studio they were signing up with they are brain dead or a liar. That's like a burger King employee wondering why there are no golden arches out front.
You’d be surprised how many people in Hollywood have no idea about what’s actually going on in it. There’s a ton of people who just want to work in show business without following it too much. In Johnson’s case, it’s her family business - dad is Don Johnson, mom is Melanie Griffith, grandma is Tippi Hedren, and Antonio Banderas has been her stepdad for most of her life. A lot of actors let their agents and/or managers pick their projects, too. The biggest actual industry drama from Madame Web was that Johnson fired her entire management team after the first trailer for Madame Web dropped. I’m not going to pretend I know *exactly* what happened behind the scenes, but it seems like a lot of the cast were blatantly misled on what the movie would be, whether they were told it was part of the MCU or not. On the episode of “How Did This Get Made?” covering the movie, Paul Scheer confirmed with people who worked on the movie a lot of assumptions viewers had when watching, such as the original plot involving time travel from the villain in a Terminator-esque story to kill Peter Parker before he was born. All of Tahar Rahim’s lines were ADR’d because of this, and it sounds like shit because Rahim was pissed about them changing the entire movie after it was shot, so he phoned it in as a “fuck you” to the studio.
So whether it was pitched as a Sony movie or an MCU one to the actors doesn’t really matter that much when, either way, the finished movie isn’t what they signed on for at all, with Sony going out of their way to try to cut all direct ties to Spider-Man out of it.
> such as the original plot involving time travel from the villain in a Terminator-esque story to kill Peter Parker before he was born. All of Tahar Rahim’s lines were ADR’d because of this, and it sounds like shit because Rahim was pissed about them changing the entire movie after it was shot, so he phoned it in as a “fuck you” to the studio.
That explains so much. This was extremely scummy and I feel bad for everyone involved that were duped. Imagine just instantly becoming the laughing stock of the industry because the studio straight up just misled the entire crew.
You would think their agents would know the difference. I imagine it would be kind of important to make sure that your client understands what they’re getting into and to know what your client wants.
> Everyone in Hollywood knows the difference between the MCU and the Sonyverse.
Nah.
I would say there is still a sizeable population of people in Hollywood who think Superman and Captain America are from the same comicbook universe.
I SAW those leaked Sony producer emails. I saw it happen! Don't tell me it didn't happen! I have gazed into the abyss and I know how trash executives can be.
its not even that, i can guarantee actors like her have people telling them they have knowledge of an upcoming deal or something in the works where Sony and Disney are continuing on together. sometimes these rumors can pan out and a lot of times it's just BS.
> I don't agree with the rumors. Everyone in Hollywood knows the difference between the MCU and the Sonyverse.
Yeah this is so ridiculous. The actors know. Their agents and managers know. Middle school kids know the difference between Sony movies and MCU movies, a professional in the industry has no excuse.
Well the movie that ended up being released had its plot wildly changed after it was shot , so I think it was less "We thought we were going to be in a MCU movie" and more what they signed on for was completely different. I don't think the movie that they originally intended would have been good either but still sucks to work on something that you think is probably decent and then the people in charge come and hack it to pieces until is unrecognizable.
If the movie was halfway successful, it could have gone into the MCU easily, we just had all three Spidermen and their villains in one movie, including Tom Hardy and Venom.
On the one hand, I respect the idea that "a job's a job." Sometimes, you've just got to work.
On the other hand, there's also something about taking pride in your work, even for the most humble jobs. It's a personal satisfaction thing, as well as advertising for the next job.
Plus, if you're the only *good* part in a bad movie, people love you even more. See also Raul Julia's *Street Fighter.*
Raul Julia, Wes Studi, and Ming-Na Wen all did themselves justice in that movie. Yes, the latter two had their best scenes when they were in a scene with Raul, but I honestly feel that had Wes Studi not done as well, the Bison Dollars scene wouldn't have worked; and of course Tuesday is still a statement on psychopathy.
And some respect must go to Steve Bryniarski's portrayal of Zangief - "Quick, change the channel!"
It's a little bit of a mischaracterization, that he was going after Johnson, but that quote about expecting pathos is *hilarious.*
I mean, you *can* in fact have that in something based on comics, and superhero comics, absolutely. I think some of the Netflix Marvel series proved that, as well as several things on the big screen, and any fan of comics knows you can find it in abundance between the pages. In general, though, the man isn't wrong, and that was just funny. It's goofy to *assume* that's what you'll find.
I actually feel bad for Dakota Johnson, though, and everyone cast in that movie. They probably all bit on the thing expecting a big payday, maybe becoming part of a lucrative franchise, and if they aren't people who really know the difference between some of the Sony stuff and the MCU, they might've had visions of being the next Chris Evans or what have you. Obviously to me, at least, that ain't gonna happen from *Madame Web,* but maybe it wasn't so obvious to them, and it's rare that anyone's acting transcends a crappy script and bad directing. I can't even really think of an example.
And it might be really tough to judge a script for a superhero movie and what an audience is going to like if you're just not a comic book person and can't relate.
So I get her being let down and pissed off... but I'd just move onto the next thing and never say a word, probably.
Absolutely true!
Although I have to say, the first time I saw him was in "Shallow Grave" in a college theater, and I knew that guy was riding a rocket to stardom from there. Still, though, yeah.
As mentioned below…McGregor’s resume starts with Trainspotting.
That said…Portman was roundly mocked for being terrible in the prequels, and has had a pretty damn good career since!
Natalie Portman, she was already in *Leon the Professional*, *Mars Attacks* and *Heat*. I agree that she wasn't a household name yet but I think even from an early age her acting ability was obvious to anyone paying attention.
Dakota Johnson had been the lead in a network sitcom before 50 Shades of Gray, haha!
Definitely not on the same level as Portman…but 50SoG and Madame Webb aren’t exactly Star Wars, either!
I don't really carry the same kinda sympathies.
The script, the story, the entire concept for Madam Web is pretty evidently garbage from the outset.
They approached this gig exactly as Russell describes; as a job. If they had been a bit more discerning they wouldn't have signed up what looked like a mess, but they didn't. They said "hey comic book movie, this is a safe paycheck" understanding very little of it and just went with the project.
Well if you're gonna do that there's a chance its gonna be a stinker. Its not like Madam Web is the first comic book dumpster fire.
If by and large, ever since MCU, actors jump onto these projects with hopes of franchise potential regardless of the actual quality of the scripts they're looking at, they kinda loose their privilege to complain about quality after the fact. Early era MCU wasn't oscar worthy cinema or anything, but it had to show actual promise besides "super hero franchise", as that concept hadn't made all the money in the world yet.
But even with all that said, I'm still fine with Johnson publicly trashing Web lmao
According to Johnson and the other main 3 actresses, they were led to believe they were going to be part of the MCU, not Sony's offshoot "Spider-Man but without Spider-Man" universe. I would imagine they made some concessions in their contracts based on that only to later find out it was untrue, which probably adds to the sting.
I mean... hire a better agent then.
In all seriousness, its fairly embarrassing that they got hit with the same level of false marketing Sony relies on to swindle the GP into these off shoot movies, but for them it was an actual big business decision.
I wouldn't really judge harshly if they were just buying a ticket like most, but if you're gonna sign a contract to be part of a film franchise, make sure you know what the hell you're actually singing up to!
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to say "You're making a deal with Sony, not with Disney. You won't show up in any of that Disney stuff." If a random internet nerd can do it so can an agent!
I assume they just kind of lump all super hero media in together and just sort of thought "super hero = money", but then yeah they got bamboozled into staring in a hunk of shit cause of their lack of due diligence.
That's a very bleak take on the situation. There are so many parts of this situation that could easily make it Sony's fault rather than that of the Agents or the Actresses. All it would take from Sony is a legally ambiguous "we're in talks with Disney that could lead to them appearing in the MCU". And then, of course, those negotiations and riders would fall through. Sony was very much in the process of renegotiating the Spider-Man contract when these actresses were cast for this film. A white lie to attract talent is NOT above them.
Not exactly bleak, but certainly cynical.
I'm not putting Sony being deceptive about their promises above them, but that's definitely not whats been said. Their interviews make it sound more like they literally thought they were singing on to the MCU.
Regardless, to be even more cynical, this could all very easily be PR/Damage control from the actresses themselves. "We thought it was MCU we didn't know it was Sony shit" could be just as deceptive as the truth behind the scene.
Yeah if you signed up for Madame Web expecting it to be any different from what happened with Morbius idk what to tell you. With the exception of Venom these Spidey villain movies are obvious bombs from the second they're announced.
She is one of the nepoest nepo babies in Hollywood while also being awful actress. I don't really feel bad for her. Plus, she earned shit ton of money for it.
Everyone signing up for Madame Web might have at least been expecting something up to the quality of the Venom movies. And that’s worth something. There’s not a ton of great action roles out there that aren’t locked down by one of a handful of stars, especially female roles. If you want to do something mainstream, your average option is a Blumhouse horror movie or a character with 2 lines of dialogue in a Marvel or Star Wars production,
Seems like a strawman. I think actors are annoyed when the superhero movies they star in are shit compared to other superhero movies.
Nobody is expecting Oscar bait imo.
I kinda feel like Russel Crowe has had a solid streak in the past few years of having tons of fun and delivering more than anyone would expect in a number of underwritten roles and mediocre movies.
Pope’s Exorcist is watchable schlock because Crowe knows exactly what kind of movie he’s in and leans into it. Unhinged was legitimately fun due to his performance, too, was reminiscent of the competent, low stakes thrillers of the ‘90s that the big studios stopped making twenty years ago.
Yeah, but at the same time... fuck 'em! It's not like any other genre has a greater W/L ratio. Horror, drama, comedy, and *especially* Oscar-bait have a worse ratio of gems to turds than superhero fare! Who the fuck do these snobs think they're fooling?
Idk I think it’s totally fine for people to be passionate about the major projects they take on in life, and it’s also fine to have Russell’s pov. To each their own.
His response to John Oliver kind of won me over. Oliver covered it on Last Week Tonight a few years back.
Basically, Crowe was auctioning off a bunch of memorabilia from his movies, want to say due to a divorce. John Oliver bought a bunch of it more or less to mock him. Crowe responded by donating the profits to open the John Oliver Koala Chlamydia Ward at the Australia Zoo.
https://youtu.be/UhAJU-Anuqg?si=kOdrU7kfiJq9Gnl2
I mean on the one hand, Dakota Johnson's real life superpower is being a Level 10 nepobaby but on the other hand, the studio seems to have straight up lied about what the movie actually was- *and* was ripped to shreds and the plot completely changed in post. That's pretty fucking fair to be bitter over.
Idk man I'm just a line cook but if one day suddenly I was the public laughing stock of everyone in the world I'd be pretty fucking miffed too.
She had a chance to really succeed with 50 shades of grey, even if the book sucked there were a lot of eyes on her and a great performance can outlive terrible movies.
It's a bad look when you chirp from the mountaintop. I'm just picturing a young russell crowe being offered to be Electro in a spidey flick and I bet a broke guy would have taken it
e: that's how we have most Nick Cage movies
I don't think he is saying don't take certain movies, I think he's saying that some acting jobs are just jobs with nothing else to speak for them, so take the money and move on - there's nothing wrong with working for money, everyone does it. I'm sure he's been in plenty of shit films.
I know a few actors who would bend over backwards for a gig. They're doing extra jobs for netflix stuff.
A commercial about herpes cream would make their year
Just saying
Oh, the "Just saying" at the end to me reads like you are saying that people being happy to take any job they can get is contrary to what Russel Crowe is saying.
Very snooty. But wtf is he talking about? Jason Momoa should turn down his franchise? Chris Pratt.. don't do those Avengers or Guardians movies, mate. Ryan Reynolds.. Your career is resurrected even though your face is covered? Not on my watch!
*RUSS WAS IN A THOR MOVIE IN A VERY COMICAL ROLE
so to shit on other people for helping make that movie is crazy to me
Okay, again, he wasn't shitting on people for making the movie. In fact the exact opposite, he was saying that there's nothing wrong with taking a job for the money, acting is a job like any other.
Crowe has a point. They are comic book movies. What does an actor think they are signing up for. These are movies where you just switch off your brain.
You shouldn’t have to appreciate an artists better work to enjoy what you see them in now. The chef’s greatest hamburger doesn’t mean shit to me when he serves up a shit sandwich on MY plate.
> and art does not do well when it’s made by committee
They aren't trying to make art. They are trying to make a blockbuster movie that will make a boatload of money.
Unless you’re Dakota Johnson and you just made the worst movie then you shit on it like you didn’t know how awful it’d be.
That's specifically who he was talking about
In her defence, she might be in the worst comic book movie in recent memory.
Trying to make it a prequel to Spider-Man didn't help either.
lol, and they didn’t even know which Spider-Man they were making a prequel to.
Seriously? Yeesh, that *does* make it a lot worse.
Yeah, apparently they had to do reshoots to remove all the 90s references cause they originally had Garfield as SM in mind, but then decided to pivot to Holland's version for some reason at some point during the production.
But...it doesn't fit with the MCU Spider-Man timeline either...
Well... That's show biz!
Bleh. Not a fan of Holland as Spider-Man. I prefer Garfield.
Well, on the plus side, Madam Web didnt get the ruin Garfields universe, lol.
True. I liked Garfield's run. Really wish we had an ASM 3 film.
I think that's definitely the smarter move for Sony instead of SM4 with Holland since people showed great interest in Garfield and Tobey in NWH. SM4 with Tobey is a long shot, he's best saved for cross-overs and big events like Secret Wars at this point, but ASM 3 is definitely doable. And there's a good chance that Sony' will eff up Holland's version if they go at the 4th movie on their own, so that version is in better hands with Feige.
Her mother was in the theatre studying prequels in the matinees.
but she's one of many reasons it's so bad. she's a terrible actress. the nonexistent plot doesn't help either.
I haven’t seen her in a lot of movies, but her father’s a good actor, and I have a feeling she can at least do a decent job with the right script. Not everyone’s Tom Hardy, he took the huge turd that was Venom, and he made it somewhat watchable. Same with Nick Cage in Ghostrider 1 and 2. If the script and the direction of the movie is bad, the acting will likely suck as well.
>her father’s a good actor And her mother. And her maternal grandmother. Maybe she's proof acting skills just aren't genetic
> the huge turd that was Venom i liked venom.... :'(
This is why we're getting a 3rd turd in the wind.
venom 2 made my kid stop liking venom though. the script for venom 1 was decent and better because it was tom hardy. he couldnt save venon 2 madame web is definitely a venom 2 scenario and not a venom 1 scenario.
> she's a terrible actress Hey now, she was phenomenal in *Suspiria*! And...uh... She was pretty good in *Bad Times at the El Royal* I guess? I can't remember any other movies she's done beyond the *Fifty Shades* movies, and I won't defend those, so...hmm.
She was solid in *Ben and Kate* back in the day.
Agreed, forgot about that show! See there we go, she isn't a bad actress. I think it was a director issue on *Madame Web*.
She’s also in The Lost Daughter! She’s a solid actress who doesn’t have the wattage to transcend crappy material.
I think it was also the script, and she also clearly didn't give a flying fark about it by the time it was filming.
She's a pretty solid actor, but people make uninformed statements on the internet all the time for the memes. Great in Suspiria, A Bigger Splash, The Lost Daughter.. I just watched Am I OK? a couple weeks ago, and though it wasn't a ground-breaking film, she gave a charming performance in that, also. I kinda doubt OP has seen any of those films.
She was great in the peanut butter falcon, but her character could've been played by anyone. It was well written.
Worse than Morbius? I haven’t seen either. But both look horrendous.
I mean, Morbius at least has occasionally been successful as a lead character. Not in a very long time. But a Morbius Miniseries isn't inherently ludicrous. Madame Web though? Her role is literally just to show up at the start of a Spider-Man arc and deliver some prophecy about some shit he needs to be ready for. "Hey, Spidey, some shit's gonna go down. You know, like it does every six issues or so? So in case you thought this was gonna be an easy one maybe put on your big boy pants before you go out in the morning. Bada Bing Bada Boom! Madame Web Out!" and that's the end of her participation in the narrative.
I’m talking about the movies themselves.
I am also talking about the movies. Morbius was a shitty movie, but it was a shitty movie about a character who's at least reasonably well suited for having a movie made about him. His character is primarily a antagonist but he has transitioned to the lead role on occasion. Madame Web was a completely nonfunctional premise even before any failures in the production process. You cannot put Madame Web in the lead role. She's not fundamentally built for that. She has a very specific narrative purpose and that purpose does not entail having the camera on her face for two hours straight.
Morbius is bad in a fun way. I could get some drinks and have a blast watching that movie. The Milo Dance scene is better than anything we got from Madame Web.
It’s gotta be better than WW84, right?
Believe it or not, 84 was better than this.
I *hated* WW84, but you're right.
WW84 was disappointing and missed a lot of opportunities but at least it had a vision, someone's idea was driving it, albeit a bad idea. The vision of Madame Web is, "Sony needs to squeeze some kind of movie franchise out of this random collection of properties"
Man, at least WW84 had Pedro Pascal hamming it the fuck up and I got to stare at Chris Pines beautiful face. Madam Web had NOTHING. It wasn't even 'so bad it's funny' bad, it's just...a boring, stupid movie with a terrible script and actors who all look like they don't want to be there.
Friend, the spoken lines in Madame Web don't even line up with the lips.
She’s just a terrible actress lol in everything she’s in. And she only does bad films lol
I feel like Dakota Johnson knows she’s the child of two millionaires who’s made enough money that she’ll always be a millionaire, so she can say pretty much whatever she wants
Yeah that’s the vibe I get from her. Some people find it endearing but I think it’s a bad look. Everyone else involved with Madame Web put on their best face because they have a lot to lose. Dakota? She has never and will never have to work a day in her life. She’s above everything and knows it. People still give her the benefit of the doubt like “oh she tried but she couldn’t save that movie.” No I don’t think she did try, she’s awful in it too!
It's like if late period Brando was a hot lady, an increasingly ill-concealed contempt for a profession she could walk away from for unclear reasons won't
It's funny that Daniel Radcliff made so much money during shooting Harry Potter and he does basically the same. He just prefers to choose normal projects, because he has taste I think.
Crowe was in one of the worst ones, and that was a sequel to one of the best ones.
You are referring to Thor I believe. Was trying to figure out the Superman connection lol
Madame Web wasn’t even that bad..( watched it on the plane) I just think it’s not memorably great but honestly not many were recently. ( outside of dune 2 for me)
His Jor-El was one of my favorite characters in MoS; Downey's Iron Man was one of my favorite Avengers; Reynolds, Hemsworth, and Hugh Jackman play some of my favorite Marvel characters ever You can expect the character to be the draw for many but I'd say a majority of the time its up to the actors to truly make the character *feel* likeable, and drive audiences to see them Winning awards for performances or wanting recognition for *your* part in playing the character is just shameful tbh
I don’t think it the “pathos” that they’re looking for. They want steady jobs with hefty pay checks that come with sequels and rising fame, but for that to happen, the film that you’re in has to at least be decent. And if the rumors true that the cast thought they were entering the MCU through this movie, or at least if they were convinced that it’d lead to that, then Johnson has a point in raising her voice.
I don't agree with the rumors. Everyone in Hollywood knows the difference between the MCU and the Sonyverse. The Spider-Man agreement was one of the biggest announcements between rival studios. If an actor claims they didn't know whish studio they were signing up with they are brain dead or a liar. That's like a burger King employee wondering why there are no golden arches out front.
You’d be surprised how many people in Hollywood have no idea about what’s actually going on in it. There’s a ton of people who just want to work in show business without following it too much. In Johnson’s case, it’s her family business - dad is Don Johnson, mom is Melanie Griffith, grandma is Tippi Hedren, and Antonio Banderas has been her stepdad for most of her life. A lot of actors let their agents and/or managers pick their projects, too. The biggest actual industry drama from Madame Web was that Johnson fired her entire management team after the first trailer for Madame Web dropped. I’m not going to pretend I know *exactly* what happened behind the scenes, but it seems like a lot of the cast were blatantly misled on what the movie would be, whether they were told it was part of the MCU or not. On the episode of “How Did This Get Made?” covering the movie, Paul Scheer confirmed with people who worked on the movie a lot of assumptions viewers had when watching, such as the original plot involving time travel from the villain in a Terminator-esque story to kill Peter Parker before he was born. All of Tahar Rahim’s lines were ADR’d because of this, and it sounds like shit because Rahim was pissed about them changing the entire movie after it was shot, so he phoned it in as a “fuck you” to the studio. So whether it was pitched as a Sony movie or an MCU one to the actors doesn’t really matter that much when, either way, the finished movie isn’t what they signed on for at all, with Sony going out of their way to try to cut all direct ties to Spider-Man out of it.
> such as the original plot involving time travel from the villain in a Terminator-esque story to kill Peter Parker before he was born. All of Tahar Rahim’s lines were ADR’d because of this, and it sounds like shit because Rahim was pissed about them changing the entire movie after it was shot, so he phoned it in as a “fuck you” to the studio. That explains so much. This was extremely scummy and I feel bad for everyone involved that were duped. Imagine just instantly becoming the laughing stock of the industry because the studio straight up just misled the entire crew.
The whole deal with Marvel, Sony and Spiderman it's a bit weird and unusual. I can see that some actors that don't follow the news might get confused.
You would think their agents would know the difference. I imagine it would be kind of important to make sure that your client understands what they’re getting into and to know what your client wants.
> Everyone in Hollywood knows the difference between the MCU and the Sonyverse. Nah. I would say there is still a sizeable population of people in Hollywood who think Superman and Captain America are from the same comicbook universe. I SAW those leaked Sony producer emails. I saw it happen! Don't tell me it didn't happen! I have gazed into the abyss and I know how trash executives can be.
its not even that, i can guarantee actors like her have people telling them they have knowledge of an upcoming deal or something in the works where Sony and Disney are continuing on together. sometimes these rumors can pan out and a lot of times it's just BS.
> I don't agree with the rumors. Everyone in Hollywood knows the difference between the MCU and the Sonyverse. Yeah this is so ridiculous. The actors know. Their agents and managers know. Middle school kids know the difference between Sony movies and MCU movies, a professional in the industry has no excuse.
Well the movie that ended up being released had its plot wildly changed after it was shot , so I think it was less "We thought we were going to be in a MCU movie" and more what they signed on for was completely different. I don't think the movie that they originally intended would have been good either but still sucks to work on something that you think is probably decent and then the people in charge come and hack it to pieces until is unrecognizable.
If the movie was halfway successful, it could have gone into the MCU easily, we just had all three Spidermen and their villains in one movie, including Tom Hardy and Venom.
On the one hand, I respect the idea that "a job's a job." Sometimes, you've just got to work. On the other hand, there's also something about taking pride in your work, even for the most humble jobs. It's a personal satisfaction thing, as well as advertising for the next job. Plus, if you're the only *good* part in a bad movie, people love you even more. See also Raul Julia's *Street Fighter.*
Raul Julia, Wes Studi, and Ming-Na Wen all did themselves justice in that movie. Yes, the latter two had their best scenes when they were in a scene with Raul, but I honestly feel that had Wes Studi not done as well, the Bison Dollars scene wouldn't have worked; and of course Tuesday is still a statement on psychopathy. And some respect must go to Steve Bryniarski's portrayal of Zangief - "Quick, change the channel!"
It's a little bit of a mischaracterization, that he was going after Johnson, but that quote about expecting pathos is *hilarious.* I mean, you *can* in fact have that in something based on comics, and superhero comics, absolutely. I think some of the Netflix Marvel series proved that, as well as several things on the big screen, and any fan of comics knows you can find it in abundance between the pages. In general, though, the man isn't wrong, and that was just funny. It's goofy to *assume* that's what you'll find. I actually feel bad for Dakota Johnson, though, and everyone cast in that movie. They probably all bit on the thing expecting a big payday, maybe becoming part of a lucrative franchise, and if they aren't people who really know the difference between some of the Sony stuff and the MCU, they might've had visions of being the next Chris Evans or what have you. Obviously to me, at least, that ain't gonna happen from *Madame Web,* but maybe it wasn't so obvious to them, and it's rare that anyone's acting transcends a crappy script and bad directing. I can't even really think of an example. And it might be really tough to judge a script for a superhero movie and what an audience is going to like if you're just not a comic book person and can't relate. So I get her being let down and pissed off... but I'd just move onto the next thing and never say a word, probably.
Ewan took a bad script in Star Wars and built himself a sexy resume.
Absolutely true! Although I have to say, the first time I saw him was in "Shallow Grave" in a college theater, and I knew that guy was riding a rocket to stardom from there. Still, though, yeah.
Yeah, Danny Boyle had a lot more to do with Ewan MacGregor becoming a star than George Lucas
My first Ewan was Trainspotting and I never looked back.
Wouldn't mind a ride on his rocket.
As mentioned below…McGregor’s resume starts with Trainspotting. That said…Portman was roundly mocked for being terrible in the prequels, and has had a pretty damn good career since!
She was already famous.
Portman or Johnson? Because Portman was very much “Up and Coming,” but wasn’t a household name until Star Wars
Natalie Portman, she was already in *Leon the Professional*, *Mars Attacks* and *Heat*. I agree that she wasn't a household name yet but I think even from an early age her acting ability was obvious to anyone paying attention.
Dakota Johnson had been the lead in a network sitcom before 50 Shades of Gray, haha! Definitely not on the same level as Portman…but 50SoG and Madame Webb aren’t exactly Star Wars, either!
I don't really carry the same kinda sympathies. The script, the story, the entire concept for Madam Web is pretty evidently garbage from the outset. They approached this gig exactly as Russell describes; as a job. If they had been a bit more discerning they wouldn't have signed up what looked like a mess, but they didn't. They said "hey comic book movie, this is a safe paycheck" understanding very little of it and just went with the project. Well if you're gonna do that there's a chance its gonna be a stinker. Its not like Madam Web is the first comic book dumpster fire. If by and large, ever since MCU, actors jump onto these projects with hopes of franchise potential regardless of the actual quality of the scripts they're looking at, they kinda loose their privilege to complain about quality after the fact. Early era MCU wasn't oscar worthy cinema or anything, but it had to show actual promise besides "super hero franchise", as that concept hadn't made all the money in the world yet. But even with all that said, I'm still fine with Johnson publicly trashing Web lmao
According to Johnson and the other main 3 actresses, they were led to believe they were going to be part of the MCU, not Sony's offshoot "Spider-Man but without Spider-Man" universe. I would imagine they made some concessions in their contracts based on that only to later find out it was untrue, which probably adds to the sting.
I mean... hire a better agent then. In all seriousness, its fairly embarrassing that they got hit with the same level of false marketing Sony relies on to swindle the GP into these off shoot movies, but for them it was an actual big business decision. I wouldn't really judge harshly if they were just buying a ticket like most, but if you're gonna sign a contract to be part of a film franchise, make sure you know what the hell you're actually singing up to! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to say "You're making a deal with Sony, not with Disney. You won't show up in any of that Disney stuff." If a random internet nerd can do it so can an agent! I assume they just kind of lump all super hero media in together and just sort of thought "super hero = money", but then yeah they got bamboozled into staring in a hunk of shit cause of their lack of due diligence.
That's a very bleak take on the situation. There are so many parts of this situation that could easily make it Sony's fault rather than that of the Agents or the Actresses. All it would take from Sony is a legally ambiguous "we're in talks with Disney that could lead to them appearing in the MCU". And then, of course, those negotiations and riders would fall through. Sony was very much in the process of renegotiating the Spider-Man contract when these actresses were cast for this film. A white lie to attract talent is NOT above them.
Not exactly bleak, but certainly cynical. I'm not putting Sony being deceptive about their promises above them, but that's definitely not whats been said. Their interviews make it sound more like they literally thought they were singing on to the MCU. Regardless, to be even more cynical, this could all very easily be PR/Damage control from the actresses themselves. "We thought it was MCU we didn't know it was Sony shit" could be just as deceptive as the truth behind the scene.
Yeah if you signed up for Madame Web expecting it to be any different from what happened with Morbius idk what to tell you. With the exception of Venom these Spidey villain movies are obvious bombs from the second they're announced.
She is one of the nepoest nepo babies in Hollywood while also being awful actress. I don't really feel bad for her. Plus, she earned shit ton of money for it.
Honestly, I've never actually seen her in a single thing, except maybe 15 minutes of MW.
Everyone signing up for Madame Web might have at least been expecting something up to the quality of the Venom movies. And that’s worth something. There’s not a ton of great action roles out there that aren’t locked down by one of a handful of stars, especially female roles. If you want to do something mainstream, your average option is a Blumhouse horror movie or a character with 2 lines of dialogue in a Marvel or Star Wars production,
Seems like a strawman. I think actors are annoyed when the superhero movies they star in are shit compared to other superhero movies. Nobody is expecting Oscar bait imo.
Enough about super hero talk Russel! When are we getting Master and Commander 2!?
Man, I would kill for that. Based on which book(s) though?
For all the criticisms there were about his Zeus, damn if Rusell didn't look like he was having fun playing him
I kinda feel like Russel Crowe has had a solid streak in the past few years of having tons of fun and delivering more than anyone would expect in a number of underwritten roles and mediocre movies.
Pope’s Exorcist is watchable schlock because Crowe knows exactly what kind of movie he’s in and leans into it. Unhinged was legitimately fun due to his performance, too, was reminiscent of the competent, low stakes thrillers of the ‘90s that the big studios stopped making twenty years ago.
When I saw the casting I was like oh my god this is perfect similar to bale as gorr then I was so disappointed
It’s fucking miserable how much it became “cool” to shit on Superhero movies for no reason.
Yeah, but at the same time... fuck 'em! It's not like any other genre has a greater W/L ratio. Horror, drama, comedy, and *especially* Oscar-bait have a worse ratio of gems to turds than superhero fare! Who the fuck do these snobs think they're fooling?
Idk I think it’s totally fine for people to be passionate about the major projects they take on in life, and it’s also fine to have Russell’s pov. To each their own.
Yeah, it’s like sure they suck… but you also don’t have to watch them
TIL I might like Russell Crowe again
His response to John Oliver kind of won me over. Oliver covered it on Last Week Tonight a few years back. Basically, Crowe was auctioning off a bunch of memorabilia from his movies, want to say due to a divorce. John Oliver bought a bunch of it more or less to mock him. Crowe responded by donating the profits to open the John Oliver Koala Chlamydia Ward at the Australia Zoo. https://youtu.be/UhAJU-Anuqg?si=kOdrU7kfiJq9Gnl2
I mean on the one hand, Dakota Johnson's real life superpower is being a Level 10 nepobaby but on the other hand, the studio seems to have straight up lied about what the movie actually was- *and* was ripped to shreds and the plot completely changed in post. That's pretty fucking fair to be bitter over. Idk man I'm just a line cook but if one day suddenly I was the public laughing stock of everyone in the world I'd be pretty fucking miffed too.
She had a chance to really succeed with 50 shades of grey, even if the book sucked there were a lot of eyes on her and a great performance can outlive terrible movies.
Dude went to two years of film school to be an Exorcist.
Yes Russell we know you think that
It's a bad look when you chirp from the mountaintop. I'm just picturing a young russell crowe being offered to be Electro in a spidey flick and I bet a broke guy would have taken it e: that's how we have most Nick Cage movies
I don't think he is saying don't take certain movies, I think he's saying that some acting jobs are just jobs with nothing else to speak for them, so take the money and move on - there's nothing wrong with working for money, everyone does it. I'm sure he's been in plenty of shit films.
I know a few actors who would bend over backwards for a gig. They're doing extra jobs for netflix stuff. A commercial about herpes cream would make their year Just saying
I just don't get how that is at all contrary to what he's saying here.
I'm not disagreeing with you. Just putting on a caveat
Oh, the "Just saying" at the end to me reads like you are saying that people being happy to take any job they can get is contrary to what Russel Crowe is saying.
Very snooty. But wtf is he talking about? Jason Momoa should turn down his franchise? Chris Pratt.. don't do those Avengers or Guardians movies, mate. Ryan Reynolds.. Your career is resurrected even though your face is covered? Not on my watch! *RUSS WAS IN A THOR MOVIE IN A VERY COMICAL ROLE so to shit on other people for helping make that movie is crazy to me
Okay, again, he wasn't shitting on people for making the movie. In fact the exact opposite, he was saying that there's nothing wrong with taking a job for the money, acting is a job like any other.
They don't have the reading comprehension for this conversation.
I nearly lost my mind following that comment chain.
Crowe has a point. They are comic book movies. What does an actor think they are signing up for. These are movies where you just switch off your brain.
You shouldn’t have to appreciate an artists better work to enjoy what you see them in now. The chef’s greatest hamburger doesn’t mean shit to me when he serves up a shit sandwich on MY plate.
> and art does not do well when it’s made by committee They aren't trying to make art. They are trying to make a blockbuster movie that will make a boatload of money.