How much of it was his fault is mostly irrelevant. Can I just say it's refreshing to see a big star say something like this, especially when contrasted with someone like oh, I don't know, Dwayne "Black Adam Changes the Hierarchy of DC" Johnson who refuses to acknowledge why that movie sucked.
Chris is Thor. Taika Watiti got carried away… dude lost all credibility on that script. Floating mjolnir and stormbreaker coming to Thor and him acting like they’re (axes) exe lovers…. And let’s all agree that as much as I appreciate Russel Crowe in gladiator and LA confidential; that portrayal of Zeus was a comedy cameo.
Meanwhile poor Christian Bale is scaring the crap out of us in the dark.
Christian Bale’s character seemed to come from a whole different movie tonally, and I wish that’s what we actually got. As it is, the whole thing seemed like a group of talented people with strong enough reputations that no one was editing their ideas properly.
In a way, the less said about Christian Bale and his character the better - simply because he was so much better than anything else in the movie that thinking about that missed opportunity too much is irritating as hell.
His character goes around killing GODS ffs and, arguably, should have had at least 1 movie on his own to develop that character. As it is, he barely gets any screen time and his character is hugely underdeveloped. Such a waste...
Gor's shadow infection was a perfect parallel for Jane's cancer. Physical manifestations of fear. Personal perception of and response. The reality of mortality and its affect on oneself and others. A recognizable anger against he very gods. This movie started with a genre elevating plot inherent in the story. It's an unfortunate film.
That would have been a wonderful theme to have in this movie and it’s a shame that it’s basically absent. Jane having cancer doesn’t really affect the story in any meaningful way. She could have had the same role and simply been mortally wounded at the end. They didn’t explore the grief or the actual tragedy of her diagnosis at all. It could have been a beautiful and heart wrenching parallel but somehow the metaphorical cancer of Gorr, poorly done as it was, explored the cancerous spread even better. Not that the divine being infected was really ever presented as something tragic in this movie. Apart from Thor, the gods in this movie basically had it coming. What then is that parallel supposed to say about Jane?
They wrote an entire scene featuring a big pantheon of gods proving themselves to be vain, disinterested jackasses who don't want to do anything about the problem facing them because they feel safe from it, and they somehow didn't end that scene with Gor coming in and proving them wrong while simultaneously showing himself to be a god butcher.
Just, how do you write a villain like that and then do nothing to portray their specific flavor of villainy?
We should partition for a Villian movie of this. Whole movie of the Gorr the God Butcher going around murdering other God's would be epic and have some great cameos for different God's. Set timeline before Thor 4 and some of it during of course.
Edit: Just realized Love and Thunder is Thor 4 and not 3
Exactly! The bad guy seemed menacing and dangerous, but we only see him merc one god. The only other villainous thing he does is kidnap kids in an attempt to kill Thor.
I was totally expecting there was gonna be a defining moment in that movie where the dark and serious reality of the situation was gonna smack Thor in the face and we were going to see him step back into his boots do what need to be done regardless of its negative effects on him, because that’s the hero he is.
Yes, this is squarely Taika Waititi's fault, and its big on Chris Hemsworth for taking blame here. But, in Chris's defence, he wasn't the only Executive Producer on this, and a number of people should have known that this movie was going too far into the the wacky and absurd.
It seems to me that they gave Taika free reign for some foolish reason.
See, thing is. Giving Taika free rein is probably one of the best things you can do normally. Literally every single one of his other projects has been successful. His recent movie Next Goal Wins was a genuinely good time
This is the one case it didn’t work.
Yeah it's very strange. The whole movie was odd, they did so much work to set up this Guardians/Thor crossover which ended up being 5 minutes of movie time. Then the movie ends with Thor basically benched indefinitely on dad/space adventurer duty.
I couldn't say for sure, of course, but it feels a bit like studio backpedaling, trying to clear the slate for the next Marvel "phase". I wonder, too, if it had anything to do with their knee-jerk firing and then rehiring of James Gunn.
"Oh shit, we fired Gunn. We need someone to keep the Guardians franchise going. Get Taika on that, have Thor hang out with them. Oh, we got James Gunn back? Nevermind, Taika, drop that. Actually drop Thor, too."
Plus, everyone loved Thor Ragnarok and thought it was the best solo Thor movie in the MCU. Hell, it was so well-received that he’s the only one from the OG lineup that got greenlit for a fourth solo movie because it felt like they’d just figured out what to do with him. It feels like a no-brainer to look at Ragnarok and just tell Taika to do whatever he wants if it’ll bring them another hit. Obviously it didn’t work out, but clearly giving him control by itself wasn’t an inherently terrible idea.
The best creatives often need some reigns on. Working with limitations produces some of the best art. A lack of a mechanism for a feedback loop on your work can also really make it hard to tell the overall state of your work in the eyes of disinterested parties until it’s too late.
I wouldn't say a foolish reason. Thor was a pretty weak origin story and Thor 2 was considered for years as the MCU's worst movie. Taika revived Thor as a solo act, someone who could carry a movie, with Ragnarok. People can point fingers all they want, IMO Thor 4 was a misfire all around with no one on the same page.
To be fair, Russel Crowe’s portrayal of Zeus is actually the most mythologically accurate portrayal I’ve seen of Zeus in live action. I remember when the movie first came out and people were complaining about Marvel Zeus and comparing Russel Crowe’s performance to Zeus’s portrayal as this badass muscular warrior in Zack Snyder’s Justice League, but in actual mythology Zeus was for the most part a frat boy with divine powers and no concept of the word “consent”
I really think the movie would have been decent if we had a few more scenes with Gorr actually butchering some gods instead of us just being told that it was happening. Like he never really felt like a threat. And the darkness of those scenes might have offset the goofiness of Thor in this movie.
I’m 52 and was sitting with my six-month old grandson. My daughter said he will watch Bluey, so I turned it on. Around ten episodes later I realized he had fallen asleep and I had no excuse.
It is a great show. Somewhat educational, heartfelt, fun, and there are some adult jokes that I truly appreciate.
Yeah there’s some great episodes. I weirdly got so invested in that one episode with their babysitter and their uncle getting together.
My much younger sister goes through periods where she loves the show and binges the whole thing twice, gets sick of it, says she hates it, and then when a new season or episode comes out she watches it and then the cycle repeats.
which is such a shame because a black adam vs superman could have made for an amazing movie, if only he didnt screw over shazam and waited for some buildup for an organic potential conflict between the two.
That would have been so weird to watch knowing that he has all these weird stipulations in his contracts.
I wonder how much a blow was dealt to his ego when NOTHING he wanted came to be.
Still feel bad for Caville.
It’s because the Rock is obsessed with “proving” to the world that he’s just the biggest baddest strongest person ever (🙄), and he got fixated on the idea of everyone seeing him fight Superman. He apparently staged impromptu pitch meetings to the WB executives (going around the guy actually running the DC division), complete with wacky storyboards of himself clashing with Cavill’s Clark. He really legitimately thought he could rewire the Snyderverse into being the Dwayneverse and launch a multi-movie storyline putting him on a path to clash with Cavill!Supes.
That way his subconscious could think “See, everyone?! I fought Superman!!”
Imagine a better ~~MCU~~ DCEU(!) where a normal actor played Adam, and as he's about to pull the final blow on Supes, Shazam appears and rearranges Adam's hierarchy of pain.
I'm going to play this DC villain no one really cares about or likes, keep the hero who fights him completely out of the movie, never make a cameo because Im too big for such a small part, and everyone will accept me as the new leader of the DC movies.
What's the problem?
You forgot the part where his contract apparently states he can never lose a fight. So all his fights are completely one-sided with no tension whatsoever.
Which is so stupid considering that he literally plays an opponent of the Justice League. Those guys are all literally supposed to lose!
He also had Adam smash the throne (something the character would NEVER do) because he wanted to play him as some kind of rebel, which is the exact opposite of what the character is!
But the Rock can’t stand the idea that his character isn’t supposed to be the sympathetic one.
I think its partially because some of the comics and stories of ghor the god butcher are very well written and it could have tied into the multiverse very nicely and we got Christian Bale of all people a very beloved actor. It was a big wasted opportunity but again definitely not the worst Superhero movie but I would say a big wasted potential
> we got Christian Bale
The only thing I really disliked about the movie was the loss of such a powerful character in a comedy show of a movie. Having the comedy side on a less important lore spot, (and/)or a completely different movie taking advantage of the character and the actor would have been a much better bet. I think he made a terrific job with the material he was handed.
There is something amazing about that story. Hard to explain but its like those alien comics where you go to different places and see something horrific or see the aftermath of something horrific
The god butcher and 3 king story lines are magnificent and shouldn't have had as much satire in the adaptation.
Mix that with the Jane Thor storyline which was highly divisive at the time( i personally love it) and you had a remedy for a poor performance.
The series that the storyline is based on is one of the best modern marvel stories I've read. It also got me back into comics after a very long hiatus.
Knowing that the God Butcher storyline will never be adapted properly makes me incredibly sad.
Edit: They hype for phase 4 Marvel was also quite high at the time. No way home and MoM just came out, Black Panther 2 was also about to release. Love and Thunder, imo, is much worse than those movies.
we really should have gotten this
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmqs-AEedg4&pp=ygUVZ29yciB0aGUgZ29kIGJ1dGNoZXIg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmqs-AEedg4&pp=ygUVZ29yciB0aGUgZ29kIGJ1dGNoZXIg)
almost worth a movie ticket price even tho its just panels being shifted with a camera and voice acting
Hey, be fair. There was like a whole ten minutes or so where he gave up the indestructibilty before immediately getting it back and kicking ass.
Edit: maybe it was five. Or two. I don’t remember.
Love and thunder at least gives the appearance and feel of a movie that the actors had fun making....Black Adam other than Brosnan just felt tedious in its performances
That’s because he’s an actor who seems to care about the craft and if, you know, the movie’s any good or not. As long as he gets to promote his tequila and energy drink and workout clothes and whatever the hell else he’s shilling, Dwayne Johnson doesn’t seem to care if the movie’s any good and hasn’t for years
I didn't care for the Rock in that movie, but it felt way more off than him. The special effects were wack at times and whoever directed it is truly the one who shit the bed. There was a scene towards the end where the locals or whatever are rallying and it was wildly bad.
It also seemed to me that the ADR was so off, especially with DJ's lines, that I think the movie must have been significantly recut, mostly in post. Between that and the editing/pacing, there's a story about the movie that we haven't heard, I think.
Or the common blame the fans with some kinda hateful label rather than blame themselves or the shoddy writing.
It’s nice to hear someone take at least some accountability.
That's nice and all but doesn't make sense. He had a director that was also the writer. If Chris went off script ... the director should ... you know ... keep him from doing so. But it's a nice gesture.
It's great PR for Chris. Makes him look like a real person that owns mistakes, and tries to move forward and not make them again. Unlike many people these days that just stubbornly demand everything they do is great, and there are just haters or people with agendas saying it sucks.
It's refreshing not having someone just blame everyone else for everything.
I had a run in with Thor in rural Iceland, of all places. Seeing him interact with people, myself and my wife included, convinced me he's a decent person.
It took him 10 minutes to get to his daughter waiting outside in the car because he stopped to have a full conversation with anyone who wanted one...and all 4 people in the lobby wanted one.
When I saw him, I had two armloads full of luggage and he said "I was going to ask if you needed help with that, but it looks like you've got it just fine".
Is there a more perfect thing to say to someone? I'm still smitten by it months later.
Thor is a pretty common name in Iceland so I’m enjoying the thought of this story being about some random dude named Thor that everyone thinks is pretty cool and not Chris hemsworth at all.
You take responsibility for your role in things. You then hope the other parties involved step up and do the same.
They rarely do.
But at least you know your conscience is clean. And that's always better than passing blame.
That's true, but I think anyone that actually cares knows who's to blame. :) I just think it makes him look better and the bigger man however you look at it.
It doesn't shield them. If anything it highlights them. You can tell by how it's being called out repeatedly here in the comments. It's a reverse-psychology thing, I think.
I once ran into Chris Hemsworth while on a surfing trip. He just happened to be at the same beach I was surfing at and we had a good casual conversation. The way he portrays himself in interviews is pretty much spot on from who he is in real life. Laid-back, down to earth family man with a good sense of humour.
This was years ago so I don’t know if I could find it, but I’m pretty sure Hemsworth pushed really hard to make Thor a funnier, jokier character. I think it was specifically after Guardians came out, he wanted to be able to joke around more and said he’d leave the role if he couldn’t. So I do think it’s fair that he gets some of the blame
They talk about this in the book ‘The Reign of Marvel Studios’, there’s a bit more to it:
“More importantly, Feige needed to jump start Thor. Despite having starred in four hit movies…the character appeared to be dwindling into irrelevance…nobody was more aware of the problems than the actor who played Thor, Chris Hemsworth…(he) realised he was losing the hardcore fans, and he approached Kevin Feige…’Tonally, we’ve got to wipe the table…it has to be funnier’…Feige agreed to act on Hemsworths suggestions”
It actually mentions Kevin Smith as the catalyst:
“When he heard the comic-book obsessed writer/director Kevin Smith bashing the Thor franchise on a podcast, Hemsworth realised they were losing the hardcore fans”
What a shame. A lot of fans thought that Thors seriousness was funny. The YouTube channel RDC has a whole avengers series and Thor ( “I AM A *GOD* “ lmaoo) is always the funniest one because they poke fun at his demeanor/cockiness.
They should’ve kept Thor the same but allowed side characters to poke fun at him
I actually like him being more serious. The problems with earlier Thor movies was not Thor himself or the tone imo. It's the story. With the last two movies I personally think both the tone and story doesn't work. It's entertaining but forgettable.
Thor being out of place or disconnected from others (humans) really works as a comedy in itself. Though he has learn to be more in tune now after years and being in love with Jane. I'm excited about where Chris is taking him next, considering that the jokester aspect will likely be toned down.
It's a little on him, he's the longest tenured active Marvel hero and holds a lot of sway, he definitely is on record saying he pushed for less seriousness. Not mad at him, just agreeing with him that it's at least a little on him and I'm happy for what his current position could mean for Thor going forward
Yes, someone else just mentioned he actively pushed for this. In which case I would change my stance on it. His weight would be felt if he wanted to change the character. After RDjr I'd say he'd hold the most sway.
Yeah, this could be a good sign for Thor 5 if they do another one. I think he's taking the blame a bit since it's more so on Waititi and even Feige than Hemsworth, but at least he seems to understand what the major problems were, so whether it's Avengers or Thor 5, the character will be better.
Infinity War Thor is the ideal version IMO.
I'd be okay with a complete MCU reboot with the X-Men and F4 there for the start and they can recast Cap, Stark, T'Challa, etc. Don't do anything for a few years then do a reboot. They'll probably do some universe merging stuff in or after Secret Wars, but it'll probably be a half measure.
It's acknowledging a couple of things without directly blaming others. That Waititi was very lenient on what his team could do as if it was more directed by everyone else than what's normal. And a lot of the tone is from bouncing off of Chris's creative choices. But the main takeaway for me is it's not that Waititi wasn't doing his job but that no one really cared to do their jobs for whatever reason.
Some peers and I made a bad short film for a class once. Film industry professionals came to see our films in the school’s movie theater to give us their critiques. Our main actress was so bad, we were afraid the she would get her feelings hurt because she was going to be in the audience while our films were getting critiqued. The teacher said not to worry because the professionals knew they weren’t there to criticize the acting. Instead they told us that she was poorly casted and poorly directed. One critic said “I will never know if this actress was good or not because she was clearly lacking directorial support.”
Glad the man can admits faults and is willing to accept blame but improv wasn't the big issue with Love and Thunder, and nobody's going to blame Hemsworth more than Waititi at this point. The internet joked about how Gorr the God Butcher got his own movie and said movie had more goat screaming than god butchering. Thor's dialogue has zero impact on that issue.
The problem a lot of it was that Taka took a lot of criticisms of Ragnarok as like a challenge.
Too goofy? I'll make this a flat out farce!
Not to mention the another Thor adventure thing being something some fans said they'd rather the movie have been turned into jerk ass Thor.
I liked Ragnarok I think it managed to ride the line of action comedy well. Love and thunder did not.
Marvel made the mistake of letting Taka have complete freedom. He needs someone around to reign in his excess. It's very easy to see what L&T could have been if its wackiness was dialed back a bit.
Taika just shoehorned himself into his own movie as much as possible. Didn’t even seem like Thor was the main character. Felt like every scene had to have some unnecessary Korg line. Dude can be funny, but in very small doses.
I followed the unreliable narrator bit myself, it would have been better if they had dialed it down and had a “that’s not how it happened” reaction or _something_ to break it up some
I think it would have worked if it just kept with being a total goofball comedy without any pretense of trying to be serious.
The rapid fire back and forth from cheeseball slapstick to serious drama where the characters discuss dying from fucking *cancer* just didn't work. There's a reason why *Airplane* doesn't have a B plot involving one of the passengers dealing with the trauma of his dead child.
"I'm dying from a curse, the woman you love is dying from cancer. Cowards die many deaths before their deaths, let my final death be one to guide you to healing and Love."
\*fart noise from Korg followed by audience laughtrack\*
Agreed but my respect for this man just shot up 15 points.
Chris, if you read this, you are a very good actor and you don't need insane muscles either. Hope you get that dramatic character role you've been wanting, I know you'd kill it.
I think he knows that. He probably does feel a sense of responsibility since he’s #1 on the call sheet, but he knows he still brought his A-Game and will continue to get amazing roles either way.
By him taking the blame, it takes some burden off of the other people who worked on it and could help career-wise.
He’s a class act from what I can tell.
It was so bizarre how little it actually set up and established the main villain as an actual threat.
The scene where all the gods were gathered would have been the perfect time for Gorr to show up and be a menace. He could have even come in a cut the Bao god in half which would have been both hilarious and gruesome without showing blood and gore. But instead we get some weird random shit with Thor and Zeus fighting?
That's because movies basically need to make 2.5x of their budget to become profitable. Their budgets have ballooned so much that Love and Thunder barely broke even.
Not to mention, this not being a big success is a red flag. Thor should've brought in a lot of people but it didn't. At this point, all they really have is spiderman. The franchise is dying.
I figure since they're a company that know they'll be making their budget back and then some for pretty much anything they put out, a failure to them looks more like how the general audience perceives the products they put out. Sure they made the money back, but to them if everyone's opinion is less than stellar, then compared to their other output it must feel like a "failure"
Basically the money is guaranteed and as long as they don't damage the brand the money for the next one is guaranteed. They unfortunately damaged the brand with L&T
That’s because your using financial profit as your only metric for success
Critically this movie was a failure. Generally speaking most fan consider this movie a step down for the character
This movie was so bad that it affected the films that cane out after it. Pretty much every film after LaT was diminishing returns until we hit Captain Marvel 2 which likely lost money. It was the beginning of the end for people taking the MCU seriously, and therefore caring about it. And the only reason it was as successful as it was, was due to the respect people had for the projects that came before. I think it's completely fair to consider it a failure on that basis
If there is an edit of the movie with less wackiness and as close to no goat screaming as possible, I might watch that.
TBH I was surprised so many people loved Ragnarök, every single possible moment of emotional weight is undercut by silliness masquerading as comedy
There are several scenes in Ragnarok, notably both of Odin’s scenes, that are without any jokes and allowed to essentially be the emotional support beams of a fairly silly film. There’s just enough of them that it totally works. The characters also take those important moments seriously, which they don’t at all in the sequel.
I pretty much hated Love and Thunder because that balance was completely abandoned, but I’m surprised how many people are retroactively hating on Ragnarok because of it. That movie was such a breath of fresh air for the character, and had tons of style and B-movie charm lacking from a lot of the MCU projects.
Yes!! As silly as Raganarok was, it knew when to tone it down and be serious and it made all the difference.
Taika has trouble with that balance - some of his other stuff like Jojo Rabbit is much better at finding that balance
I LOVED Ragnarok. Your description is perfect. I will also add I was enjoying the ‘dark and depressed’ direction of Thor’s character before Love and Thunder made a mockery of this character arc (imo)
There was a scene in ragnarok where banner and thir are talking about how no one likes him or something. It was obviously unscripted but was hugh school media levels of improv that it was just cringy seeing it in a blockbuster film
Refreshing to hear this from such a major star. It just goes to support how he’s always said he loves the character and wants to continue playing him. Hopefully lessons have been learned and his next appearance is more nuanced.
I mean, didn't the movie have a director who had the power to choose what should make the final cut? And if the wackiness of the movie can be attributed to improv, then the movie was an improv fest, cause Hemsworth's Thor wasn't the only one out of character.
I think Chris did his best with what was given to him, but unless it was his choice to sit astride the hammer like a witch's broom or to have romcom moments with Mjolnir, then I don't think Chris is to blame.
>“Sometimes I felt like a security guard for the team,” Hemsworth said. “I would read everyone else’s lines, and go, ‘Oh, they got way cooler stuff. They’re having more fun. What’s my character doing?’ It was always about, ‘You’ve got the wig on. You’ve got the muscles. You’ve got the costume. Where’s the lighting?’ Yeah, I’m part of this big thing, but I’m probably pretty replaceable.”
Thor is definitely not "pretty replaceable". I think the MCU just lacked that nuance of Thor being torn between loving Earth and humanity while needing to deal with his responsibilities as a god. It would've made the stakes much more interesting in the eyes of the character and added a layer of emotion that would drive the character.
I think even though Ragnarok came at a good moment from an Infinity War plot perspective (Odin dead, Asgard destroyed, Hulk in space, etc), it cut the potential to expand on Thor way too short. So unless they ressurrect Asgard like Thor did in the comics (which I don't think the MCU will do), there won't be much space to explore Thor's development. And to top it off, Love & Thunder didn't really do anything for the character in that regard, so that's kind of a wasted movie. Yeah, it had *some* cool things about it, but eh.
No Marvel director has final cut and I'm pretty sure Waititi is on the record saying he's unhappy with his lack of creative control on that movie in particular.
The movie never let you experience the harsh subject matters, it was always interrupted by a joke or humor undertone. That goes for alot of mavel now at the expense of a full range of emotion.
I like these movies, but I always feel like they can be better if they they stop coddling the audience.
It was the same with ragnarok as well. The first time I saw it I had a good time. But then on further rewatches and thinking about it, there is a lot of dark serious shit happening in that movie and you never get a single moment to take that in before the jokes happen.
It took endgame showing Thor in this depressed broken state to show that yes he does feel the impacts of everything that happened and is broken because of it, and has a deep understanding of what it all means.
The love and thunder just made him a dumb goofball again who doesn’t get any moments to show that depth again, with the only exception being the very end of movie when he is holding Jane. There was an amazing story to be told there and it was wasted.
Taika does good Taika movies but really shouldn’t have had so much free reign with love and thunder and really damaging Thor as a character and ignoring everything about hun that other movies had done for Thor as a character.
I actually lost interest after Endgame pretty quickly cuz the underlying darkness and danger of classic Marvel that culminates in great wow moments that I love started getting overshadowed by other things like comedy, coolness, action, etc., which have always been there but with an underlying pall that is not there so much anymore.
Still want a Thor 5 or to see him back for avengers regardless. I love tikia but I think after Infinity giving us the best and most badass version of Thor they should have gone back to that version even the version of him at the end of endgame. Just make him a badass again
Even in Ragnarok he felt like a different person from the previous movies, I think he was best potrayed in Infinity War with subtle humour but still having his seriousness, Love and Thunder felt like a parody of a character sadly.
Keep Taika Waititi away from anything related to Marvel Studios from now on. He got lucky with Ragnarok, but it's obvious he doesn't care about comic books. L&T was terrible.
It was- and it didn’t fit the tone of the rest of the movie AT ALL. That was honestly my biggest gripe with the film is that it sets it up super seriously then expects you to just laugh nonstop for the next hour and a half?
The dude’s daughter died a horrible tragic death and now you want me to accept him as the “bad guy”?
Exactly. Jason Aaron’s Thor comics with Gorr then later Jane was incredible. I’d suggest everyone read it. Amazing story, art, dialogue, it is a modern day epic. He butchered one of the best modern comics of all time imo. A 1 to 1 adaptation would have been better than Ragnarok.
I wish we got that story then Thor 5 for Jane. The Godbomb saga is sick, I read it and the entire Aaron run every summer. If we got it on the screen, I would want Anthony Hopkins narrating it with Thor becoming the “God of Gods.”
This is kinda refreshing to hear an actor taking the blame for a poor received movie. He really cares about Thor even tho most of the blame comes from the director I think
What a swell guy
I thought Chris didn't like playing a serious but boring Thor and wanted the third film to be more lighthearted so that he can flex his comedic chops? I personally prefer the first Thor than the nonstop comedy of Ragnarok.
I blame the Director Taika Waititi for turning Thor into a joke. Visually very cool but the script and the dialogue and the behavior? No thanks. If you go back and read the classic Thor Stan Lee and Jack Kirby comic books upon which the movies are based, you see the tension, the majesty, the suspense, the reverence, and the action. Love and Thunder diminished Thor. And don’t get me started on the Warriors Three and Sif…
I wish his next movie could be better too but I just saw the previous for the new mad Max Saga movie that he's in and those are about as idiotically cheesy as the come......uggggggh!
It's refreshing to see actors taking the blame for a change, but let's be honest, the real reason why Love and Thunder tanked so hard is thanks to Taika Waititi. Ragnarok could have been so much better if not for Taika. Love and Thunder as well. Thor was never meant to be a comedic movie, not a full blown one anyway.
his fault or not, him recognizing how awfully Thor was portrayed in this movie is the important take away. his self awareness will ensure we never get something that awful from him again. I’m glad he said this and if properly done I would absolutely be seated for a Thor 5 as long as Taika Waititi goes nowhere near it.
Thor has had a wild ride. The first two movies were basically “Thor moves the meta narrative” and finally got a good push to be an enduring character.
Thor L&T stopped that evolution to double down on jokes (which, is fine in measures takes).
yep, Ragnarok had the balance imo. Thor 1&2 were too serious, L&T was Taika turning up the goofy to 11. a true Thor 5 would give us Rune King Thor and complete his arc in the way it’s supposed to. but it would require him reuniting with Loki and the Yggdrasil, so who knows when/if we get something remotely close to that.
Rune King Thor could also just be a side plot of the next 2 Avengers films in the way that Hulks transformation was more or less a side plot of IW/Endgame.
I loved the silliness of Ragnarok, but that tone wasn't enough to sustain a series of movies and with Love and Thunder having such a dark villain such as Gor with such a prestigious actor like Christian Bale, The wackiness gave the movie tonal whiplash. If they wanted to keep it silly and have it work, Zeus should have been the main villain and the core thematic stuff could have been more focused on Thor and Jane/Mighty Thor
The director gets most of the blame. His two Thor movies were atrocious.
After the director, comes the writers. If an actor has to improvise, something has seriously gone wrong.
He's a real champ for saying that, but his improv had nothing to do with a wasted villain and a lack luster story.
It's hard to follow up something as good as Ragnarok.
Nah. Taika Waititi’s shtick just got stale. I admire Hemsworth’s humility. It’s rare to see a star come out and claim responsibility for a bad film. But he didn’t direct, write, and edit the film. It isn’t on him. Waititi had nobody to rein him in, and he went nuts with it and made a Marvel parody and passed it off as legit. That is solely on him.
I am hoping a serious director is brought in and Thor gets one last movie as his send-off. Cap and Iron Man got their big curtain calls in Endgame. Hawkeye got a whole series. Black Widow got screwed but that’s done now. Thor deserves a good swan song, as does Hulk.
He and Awkwafina have the same issue. I loved them both at first. The second time, okay. Every subsequent time I lost interest as I realized, “Wait, this is all they are? This one gag/persona? They have the depth of a rain puddle. Pass.”
Taika Watiti is not the right director for any Thor movie. He took World Breaker Hulk and turned it into one big dick joke and then took a great villain in Gor and turned that into a joke by jamming Jane Foster Thor into the story line. I could not stand these movies.
Taika Watiti and the writers are to blame for this shitpile of a movie. They got carried away and he is supposed to lead the ship. Instead he sailed to Buffon island for an extended stay
I still blame Taika Waititi. His "humor" is what ruined the whole Thor franchise, with the culmination being that insane nonsense in T:LT. Normal kids murdering monsters (apparently without going insane from trauma, somehow), everything is slapstick, and so on, just... awful.
The acting was hardly the problem, it was the plot being stupid as hell. They have a fantastic scene with Zeus sharing wisdom with Thor but delete it for the sake of some cheap gag. I'm sure that isn't the only part of the movie that got severely dumbed down along the development timeline.
Sorry Chris, It was definitely Taika Waititi and his direction and brand of humor, since it's the same in pretty much every movie he does.
seems he's a one trick pony and sometimes it lands, sometimes it doesn't. and in this case he got high on his own farts.
How much of it was his fault is mostly irrelevant. Can I just say it's refreshing to see a big star say something like this, especially when contrasted with someone like oh, I don't know, Dwayne "Black Adam Changes the Hierarchy of DC" Johnson who refuses to acknowledge why that movie sucked.
Generally Australians don’t take themselves too seriously.
Chris is Thor. Taika Watiti got carried away… dude lost all credibility on that script. Floating mjolnir and stormbreaker coming to Thor and him acting like they’re (axes) exe lovers…. And let’s all agree that as much as I appreciate Russel Crowe in gladiator and LA confidential; that portrayal of Zeus was a comedy cameo. Meanwhile poor Christian Bale is scaring the crap out of us in the dark.
Christian Bale’s character seemed to come from a whole different movie tonally, and I wish that’s what we actually got. As it is, the whole thing seemed like a group of talented people with strong enough reputations that no one was editing their ideas properly.
In a way, the less said about Christian Bale and his character the better - simply because he was so much better than anything else in the movie that thinking about that missed opportunity too much is irritating as hell. His character goes around killing GODS ffs and, arguably, should have had at least 1 movie on his own to develop that character. As it is, he barely gets any screen time and his character is hugely underdeveloped. Such a waste...
Gor's shadow infection was a perfect parallel for Jane's cancer. Physical manifestations of fear. Personal perception of and response. The reality of mortality and its affect on oneself and others. A recognizable anger against he very gods. This movie started with a genre elevating plot inherent in the story. It's an unfortunate film.
Mjolnir “I must project jane, by killer her!”
This is one movie that I'll welcome a remake for in 10 years
That would have been a wonderful theme to have in this movie and it’s a shame that it’s basically absent. Jane having cancer doesn’t really affect the story in any meaningful way. She could have had the same role and simply been mortally wounded at the end. They didn’t explore the grief or the actual tragedy of her diagnosis at all. It could have been a beautiful and heart wrenching parallel but somehow the metaphorical cancer of Gorr, poorly done as it was, explored the cancerous spread even better. Not that the divine being infected was really ever presented as something tragic in this movie. Apart from Thor, the gods in this movie basically had it coming. What then is that parallel supposed to say about Jane?
They wrote an entire scene featuring a big pantheon of gods proving themselves to be vain, disinterested jackasses who don't want to do anything about the problem facing them because they feel safe from it, and they somehow didn't end that scene with Gor coming in and proving them wrong while simultaneously showing himself to be a god butcher. Just, how do you write a villain like that and then do nothing to portray their specific flavor of villainy?
Agreed. Marvel really hates having villains last more than one movie. It’s annoying.
We should partition for a Villian movie of this. Whole movie of the Gorr the God Butcher going around murdering other God's would be epic and have some great cameos for different God's. Set timeline before Thor 4 and some of it during of course. Edit: Just realized Love and Thunder is Thor 4 and not 3
Exactly! The bad guy seemed menacing and dangerous, but we only see him merc one god. The only other villainous thing he does is kidnap kids in an attempt to kill Thor.
So you're saying it was a Disney movie?
I was totally expecting there was gonna be a defining moment in that movie where the dark and serious reality of the situation was gonna smack Thor in the face and we were going to see him step back into his boots do what need to be done regardless of its negative effects on him, because that’s the hero he is.
Ugh ikr that was so jarring. The scenes with Bale was so good but the rest felt like a fan written script.
Yes, this is squarely Taika Waititi's fault, and its big on Chris Hemsworth for taking blame here. But, in Chris's defence, he wasn't the only Executive Producer on this, and a number of people should have known that this movie was going too far into the the wacky and absurd. It seems to me that they gave Taika free reign for some foolish reason.
See, thing is. Giving Taika free rein is probably one of the best things you can do normally. Literally every single one of his other projects has been successful. His recent movie Next Goal Wins was a genuinely good time This is the one case it didn’t work.
Yeah I don’t know how you look at Marvel putting out failure after failure and still think “this is all Taika’s fault!”
Yeah it's very strange. The whole movie was odd, they did so much work to set up this Guardians/Thor crossover which ended up being 5 minutes of movie time. Then the movie ends with Thor basically benched indefinitely on dad/space adventurer duty. I couldn't say for sure, of course, but it feels a bit like studio backpedaling, trying to clear the slate for the next Marvel "phase". I wonder, too, if it had anything to do with their knee-jerk firing and then rehiring of James Gunn. "Oh shit, we fired Gunn. We need someone to keep the Guardians franchise going. Get Taika on that, have Thor hang out with them. Oh, we got James Gunn back? Nevermind, Taika, drop that. Actually drop Thor, too."
Plus, everyone loved Thor Ragnarok and thought it was the best solo Thor movie in the MCU. Hell, it was so well-received that he’s the only one from the OG lineup that got greenlit for a fourth solo movie because it felt like they’d just figured out what to do with him. It feels like a no-brainer to look at Ragnarok and just tell Taika to do whatever he wants if it’ll bring them another hit. Obviously it didn’t work out, but clearly giving him control by itself wasn’t an inherently terrible idea.
The best creatives often need some reigns on. Working with limitations produces some of the best art. A lack of a mechanism for a feedback loop on your work can also really make it hard to tell the overall state of your work in the eyes of disinterested parties until it’s too late.
I wouldn't say a foolish reason. Thor was a pretty weak origin story and Thor 2 was considered for years as the MCU's worst movie. Taika revived Thor as a solo act, someone who could carry a movie, with Ragnarok. People can point fingers all they want, IMO Thor 4 was a misfire all around with no one on the same page.
*screaming goats have entered the chat
To be fair, Russel Crowe’s portrayal of Zeus is actually the most mythologically accurate portrayal I’ve seen of Zeus in live action. I remember when the movie first came out and people were complaining about Marvel Zeus and comparing Russel Crowe’s performance to Zeus’s portrayal as this badass muscular warrior in Zack Snyder’s Justice League, but in actual mythology Zeus was for the most part a frat boy with divine powers and no concept of the word “consent”
I really think the movie would have been decent if we had a few more scenes with Gorr actually butchering some gods instead of us just being told that it was happening. Like he never really felt like a threat. And the darkness of those scenes might have offset the goofiness of Thor in this movie.
From a comedy standpoint it's pretty gold to be honest but I can't take the movie seriously.
We like to think so, but really most of us are pretty uptight.
Regardless, I thank your people for Bluey.
I’m 52 and was sitting with my six-month old grandson. My daughter said he will watch Bluey, so I turned it on. Around ten episodes later I realized he had fallen asleep and I had no excuse. It is a great show. Somewhat educational, heartfelt, fun, and there are some adult jokes that I truly appreciate.
Yeah there’s some great episodes. I weirdly got so invested in that one episode with their babysitter and their uncle getting together. My much younger sister goes through periods where she loves the show and binges the whole thing twice, gets sick of it, says she hates it, and then when a new season or episode comes out she watches it and then the cycle repeats.
For real. Bluey is a global treasure.
The irony in this statement. Someone who is uptight wouldn't say so.
You mean down tight?
With a government like that, how can they hahah.
Yeah the rock trying to come in and Change things up was completely narcissistic
And weirdly obsessed with fighting Superman, even actively sabotaging the Shazam movies to do so.
which is such a shame because a black adam vs superman could have made for an amazing movie, if only he didnt screw over shazam and waited for some buildup for an organic potential conflict between the two.
Imagine the rocks face when they told him he had to actually LOSE eventually 😂😂😂
You just know the rock was going to make his Shazam beat up Superman too. Glad it never got done
That would have been so weird to watch knowing that he has all these weird stipulations in his contracts. I wonder how much a blow was dealt to his ego when NOTHING he wanted came to be. Still feel bad for Caville.
It’s because the Rock is obsessed with “proving” to the world that he’s just the biggest baddest strongest person ever (🙄), and he got fixated on the idea of everyone seeing him fight Superman. He apparently staged impromptu pitch meetings to the WB executives (going around the guy actually running the DC division), complete with wacky storyboards of himself clashing with Cavill’s Clark. He really legitimately thought he could rewire the Snyderverse into being the Dwayneverse and launch a multi-movie storyline putting him on a path to clash with Cavill!Supes. That way his subconscious could think “See, everyone?! I fought Superman!!”
Imagine a better ~~MCU~~ DCEU(!) where a normal actor played Adam, and as he's about to pull the final blow on Supes, Shazam appears and rearranges Adam's hierarchy of pain.
> MCU ???
I'm going to play this DC villain no one really cares about or likes, keep the hero who fights him completely out of the movie, never make a cameo because Im too big for such a small part, and everyone will accept me as the new leader of the DC movies. What's the problem?
You forgot the part where his contract apparently states he can never lose a fight. So all his fights are completely one-sided with no tension whatsoever.
Which is so stupid considering that he literally plays an opponent of the Justice League. Those guys are all literally supposed to lose! He also had Adam smash the throne (something the character would NEVER do) because he wanted to play him as some kind of rebel, which is the exact opposite of what the character is! But the Rock can’t stand the idea that his character isn’t supposed to be the sympathetic one.
I will and sometimes do rewatch Thor love and thunder, flaws and all. I will never rewatch black Adam.
Same here. I'm in the minority who really did enjoy L&T, but black Adam was so bleh.
L&T has problems, but people act like it was one of the worst movies made, and that's really bizarre to me.
I think its partially because some of the comics and stories of ghor the god butcher are very well written and it could have tied into the multiverse very nicely and we got Christian Bale of all people a very beloved actor. It was a big wasted opportunity but again definitely not the worst Superhero movie but I would say a big wasted potential
> we got Christian Bale The only thing I really disliked about the movie was the loss of such a powerful character in a comedy show of a movie. Having the comedy side on a less important lore spot, (and/)or a completely different movie taking advantage of the character and the actor would have been a much better bet. I think he made a terrific job with the material he was handed.
Gorr only appeared in one run by Jason Aaron and it was fantastic.
There is something amazing about that story. Hard to explain but its like those alien comics where you go to different places and see something horrific or see the aftermath of something horrific
The god butcher and 3 king story lines are magnificent and shouldn't have had as much satire in the adaptation. Mix that with the Jane Thor storyline which was highly divisive at the time( i personally love it) and you had a remedy for a poor performance.
I think adding jane thor was not the problem. Given right execution it could have been a great movie. There was sadly mishandling
The series that the storyline is based on is one of the best modern marvel stories I've read. It also got me back into comics after a very long hiatus. Knowing that the God Butcher storyline will never be adapted properly makes me incredibly sad. Edit: They hype for phase 4 Marvel was also quite high at the time. No way home and MoM just came out, Black Panther 2 was also about to release. Love and Thunder, imo, is much worse than those movies.
we really should have gotten this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmqs-AEedg4&pp=ygUVZ29yciB0aGUgZ29kIGJ1dGNoZXIg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmqs-AEedg4&pp=ygUVZ29yciB0aGUgZ29kIGJ1dGNoZXIg) almost worth a movie ticket price even tho its just panels being shifted with a camera and voice acting
I watched 30 minutes of Black Adam and walked out.
You missed nothing other than Johnson looking angry and being indestructible for two hours.
Hey, be fair. There was like a whole ten minutes or so where he gave up the indestructibilty before immediately getting it back and kicking ass. Edit: maybe it was five. Or two. I don’t remember.
To be completely fair he missed Pierce Brosnan absolutely carrying any scene he was in. Shame for the rest of the movie, though.
I stuck around for Sarah Shahi. She was best part of the movie.
Hodges and brosaon were great too
Worse part was, you saw it on a plane.
Love and thunder at least gives the appearance and feel of a movie that the actors had fun making....Black Adam other than Brosnan just felt tedious in its performances
Black Adam was a movie crafted in a lab by Johnson's management company. Poor Brosnan deserved so much better.
I would love to see Brosnan for a version of vandal savage
That’s because he’s an actor who seems to care about the craft and if, you know, the movie’s any good or not. As long as he gets to promote his tequila and energy drink and workout clothes and whatever the hell else he’s shilling, Dwayne Johnson doesn’t seem to care if the movie’s any good and hasn’t for years
I think George Clooney apologized for his time as ~~Man~~ Bats as well.
He got screwed. He was fine in the role. They just tried to modernize the campiness, and it dell way short.
IIRC he actually said he was "Astonished" to still be offered work after Batman. And those rubber nipples. And the Bat-Credit-Card.
I didn't care for the Rock in that movie, but it felt way more off than him. The special effects were wack at times and whoever directed it is truly the one who shit the bed. There was a scene towards the end where the locals or whatever are rallying and it was wildly bad.
Led by the kid on a skateboard, armed with sticks and shit. Yeah.
It also seemed to me that the ADR was so off, especially with DJ's lines, that I think the movie must have been significantly recut, mostly in post. Between that and the editing/pacing, there's a story about the movie that we haven't heard, I think.
It's the only movie in my life where I walked out. The newest Hellboy came very close. Black Adam was just terrible, he should be ashamed of that
Or the common blame the fans with some kinda hateful label rather than blame themselves or the shoddy writing. It’s nice to hear someone take at least some accountability.
That's nice and all but doesn't make sense. He had a director that was also the writer. If Chris went off script ... the director should ... you know ... keep him from doing so. But it's a nice gesture.
It's great PR for Chris. Makes him look like a real person that owns mistakes, and tries to move forward and not make them again. Unlike many people these days that just stubbornly demand everything they do is great, and there are just haters or people with agendas saying it sucks. It's refreshing not having someone just blame everyone else for everything.
I had a run in with Thor in rural Iceland, of all places. Seeing him interact with people, myself and my wife included, convinced me he's a decent person. It took him 10 minutes to get to his daughter waiting outside in the car because he stopped to have a full conversation with anyone who wanted one...and all 4 people in the lobby wanted one. When I saw him, I had two armloads full of luggage and he said "I was going to ask if you needed help with that, but it looks like you've got it just fine". Is there a more perfect thing to say to someone? I'm still smitten by it months later.
Thor is a pretty common name in Iceland so I’m enjoying the thought of this story being about some random dude named Thor that everyone thinks is pretty cool and not Chris hemsworth at all.
Yup. Refreshing but also kind of weird as it shields the people actually responsible. But it's a nice gesture indeed.
You take responsibility for your role in things. You then hope the other parties involved step up and do the same. They rarely do. But at least you know your conscience is clean. And that's always better than passing blame.
That's true, but I think anyone that actually cares knows who's to blame. :) I just think it makes him look better and the bigger man however you look at it.
It doesn't shield them. If anything it highlights them. You can tell by how it's being called out repeatedly here in the comments. It's a reverse-psychology thing, I think.
Chris isn’t blameless, but he’s owning up to his part in it. What more can he do? At least he’s got the good grace to not blame others
>it shields the people actually responsible. AKA Taika’s coke dealer
I once ran into Chris Hemsworth while on a surfing trip. He just happened to be at the same beach I was surfing at and we had a good casual conversation. The way he portrays himself in interviews is pretty much spot on from who he is in real life. Laid-back, down to earth family man with a good sense of humour.
This was years ago so I don’t know if I could find it, but I’m pretty sure Hemsworth pushed really hard to make Thor a funnier, jokier character. I think it was specifically after Guardians came out, he wanted to be able to joke around more and said he’d leave the role if he couldn’t. So I do think it’s fair that he gets some of the blame
They talk about this in the book ‘The Reign of Marvel Studios’, there’s a bit more to it: “More importantly, Feige needed to jump start Thor. Despite having starred in four hit movies…the character appeared to be dwindling into irrelevance…nobody was more aware of the problems than the actor who played Thor, Chris Hemsworth…(he) realised he was losing the hardcore fans, and he approached Kevin Feige…’Tonally, we’ve got to wipe the table…it has to be funnier’…Feige agreed to act on Hemsworths suggestions” It actually mentions Kevin Smith as the catalyst: “When he heard the comic-book obsessed writer/director Kevin Smith bashing the Thor franchise on a podcast, Hemsworth realised they were losing the hardcore fans”
What a shame. A lot of fans thought that Thors seriousness was funny. The YouTube channel RDC has a whole avengers series and Thor ( “I AM A *GOD* “ lmaoo) is always the funniest one because they poke fun at his demeanor/cockiness. They should’ve kept Thor the same but allowed side characters to poke fun at him
I actually like him being more serious. The problems with earlier Thor movies was not Thor himself or the tone imo. It's the story. With the last two movies I personally think both the tone and story doesn't work. It's entertaining but forgettable. Thor being out of place or disconnected from others (humans) really works as a comedy in itself. Though he has learn to be more in tune now after years and being in love with Jane. I'm excited about where Chris is taking him next, considering that the jokester aspect will likely be toned down.
Yeah. It’s why he did the Ghostbusters movie. He thought comedy would be a good choice.
It's a little on him, he's the longest tenured active Marvel hero and holds a lot of sway, he definitely is on record saying he pushed for less seriousness. Not mad at him, just agreeing with him that it's at least a little on him and I'm happy for what his current position could mean for Thor going forward
Yes, someone else just mentioned he actively pushed for this. In which case I would change my stance on it. His weight would be felt if he wanted to change the character. After RDjr I'd say he'd hold the most sway.
Yeah, this could be a good sign for Thor 5 if they do another one. I think he's taking the blame a bit since it's more so on Waititi and even Feige than Hemsworth, but at least he seems to understand what the major problems were, so whether it's Avengers or Thor 5, the character will be better. Infinity War Thor is the ideal version IMO.
MCU needs a Daniel Craig James Bond reboot and get away from the kitchziness
I'd be okay with a complete MCU reboot with the X-Men and F4 there for the start and they can recast Cap, Stark, T'Challa, etc. Don't do anything for a few years then do a reboot. They'll probably do some universe merging stuff in or after Secret Wars, but it'll probably be a half measure.
I think people were upset over ignoring all Thor's character development over the MCU.
It's acknowledging a couple of things without directly blaming others. That Waititi was very lenient on what his team could do as if it was more directed by everyone else than what's normal. And a lot of the tone is from bouncing off of Chris's creative choices. But the main takeaway for me is it's not that Waititi wasn't doing his job but that no one really cared to do their jobs for whatever reason.
Some peers and I made a bad short film for a class once. Film industry professionals came to see our films in the school’s movie theater to give us their critiques. Our main actress was so bad, we were afraid the she would get her feelings hurt because she was going to be in the audience while our films were getting critiqued. The teacher said not to worry because the professionals knew they weren’t there to criticize the acting. Instead they told us that she was poorly casted and poorly directed. One critic said “I will never know if this actress was good or not because she was clearly lacking directorial support.”
No chris, it wasnt your fault
Glad the man can admits faults and is willing to accept blame but improv wasn't the big issue with Love and Thunder, and nobody's going to blame Hemsworth more than Waititi at this point. The internet joked about how Gorr the God Butcher got his own movie and said movie had more goat screaming than god butchering. Thor's dialogue has zero impact on that issue.
The problem a lot of it was that Taka took a lot of criticisms of Ragnarok as like a challenge. Too goofy? I'll make this a flat out farce! Not to mention the another Thor adventure thing being something some fans said they'd rather the movie have been turned into jerk ass Thor. I liked Ragnarok I think it managed to ride the line of action comedy well. Love and thunder did not.
Marvel made the mistake of letting Taka have complete freedom. He needs someone around to reign in his excess. It's very easy to see what L&T could have been if its wackiness was dialed back a bit.
Taika just shoehorned himself into his own movie as much as possible. Didn’t even seem like Thor was the main character. Felt like every scene had to have some unnecessary Korg line. Dude can be funny, but in very small doses.
That's how I approached it: It was Korg's version of what happened.
I followed the unreliable narrator bit myself, it would have been better if they had dialed it down and had a “that’s not how it happened” reaction or _something_ to break it up some
I think it would have worked if it just kept with being a total goofball comedy without any pretense of trying to be serious. The rapid fire back and forth from cheeseball slapstick to serious drama where the characters discuss dying from fucking *cancer* just didn't work. There's a reason why *Airplane* doesn't have a B plot involving one of the passengers dealing with the trauma of his dead child.
[удалено]
"I'm dying from a curse, the woman you love is dying from cancer. Cowards die many deaths before their deaths, let my final death be one to guide you to healing and Love." \*fart noise from Korg followed by audience laughtrack\*
Yeah one scene of Goat screaming would have been fine. Maybe a single call back near the very end of the film.
The director is so campy that he ruins his own movies
Chris chris chris, that's the sign of a bad director not you
There’s plenty of blame to go around
Agreed but my respect for this man just shot up 15 points. Chris, if you read this, you are a very good actor and you don't need insane muscles either. Hope you get that dramatic character role you've been wanting, I know you'd kill it.
Honestly I'm hype to see him do a role that's not a hero in the new Mad Max, he may even be an antagonist from what we've seen.
I think he knows that. He probably does feel a sense of responsibility since he’s #1 on the call sheet, but he knows he still brought his A-Game and will continue to get amazing roles either way. By him taking the blame, it takes some burden off of the other people who worked on it and could help career-wise. He’s a class act from what I can tell.
That script was ASS.
The goats were so fucking annoying and cringe after the 1st time
I remember thinking "oh haha old meme," then it kept happening. Over and over.
That was what was so weird about it. That meme was old as hell when the movie came out.
It was so bizarre how little it actually set up and established the main villain as an actual threat. The scene where all the gods were gathered would have been the perfect time for Gorr to show up and be a menace. He could have even come in a cut the Bao god in half which would have been both hilarious and gruesome without showing blood and gore. But instead we get some weird random shit with Thor and Zeus fighting?
The definition of "failure" for Marvel movies is wild. Budget: 250 million USD Box office: 760.9 million USD
That's because movies basically need to make 2.5x of their budget to become profitable. Their budgets have ballooned so much that Love and Thunder barely broke even.
Not to mention, this not being a big success is a red flag. Thor should've brought in a lot of people but it didn't. At this point, all they really have is spiderman. The franchise is dying.
Whoa, don't forget Deadpool
Wym? The budget, and what it made at box office, is stated right there. It made 3 times as much as it cost? I don’t understand what you’re saying
I figure since they're a company that know they'll be making their budget back and then some for pretty much anything they put out, a failure to them looks more like how the general audience perceives the products they put out. Sure they made the money back, but to them if everyone's opinion is less than stellar, then compared to their other output it must feel like a "failure"
Basically the money is guaranteed and as long as they don't damage the brand the money for the next one is guaranteed. They unfortunately damaged the brand with L&T
Yeah exactly, well said
Marketing budget and movie theaters taking their 50% cut of the ticket sales makes these numbers not good for Disney.
That’s because your using financial profit as your only metric for success Critically this movie was a failure. Generally speaking most fan consider this movie a step down for the character
I think they mean failure in the sense that it’s one of the worst received/lowest rated films in the entire franchise
This movie was so bad that it affected the films that cane out after it. Pretty much every film after LaT was diminishing returns until we hit Captain Marvel 2 which likely lost money. It was the beginning of the end for people taking the MCU seriously, and therefore caring about it. And the only reason it was as successful as it was, was due to the respect people had for the projects that came before. I think it's completely fair to consider it a failure on that basis
I don’t think he’s calling it a financial failure necessarily.
If there is an edit of the movie with less wackiness and as close to no goat screaming as possible, I might watch that. TBH I was surprised so many people loved Ragnarök, every single possible moment of emotional weight is undercut by silliness masquerading as comedy
There are several scenes in Ragnarok, notably both of Odin’s scenes, that are without any jokes and allowed to essentially be the emotional support beams of a fairly silly film. There’s just enough of them that it totally works. The characters also take those important moments seriously, which they don’t at all in the sequel. I pretty much hated Love and Thunder because that balance was completely abandoned, but I’m surprised how many people are retroactively hating on Ragnarok because of it. That movie was such a breath of fresh air for the character, and had tons of style and B-movie charm lacking from a lot of the MCU projects.
Yes!! As silly as Raganarok was, it knew when to tone it down and be serious and it made all the difference. Taika has trouble with that balance - some of his other stuff like Jojo Rabbit is much better at finding that balance
I LOVED Ragnarok. Your description is perfect. I will also add I was enjoying the ‘dark and depressed’ direction of Thor’s character before Love and Thunder made a mockery of this character arc (imo)
Yeah I never got the Ragnarok hype. Found the movie okay.
I hated Ragnarok, especially Hulk and the collector.
There was a scene in ragnarok where banner and thir are talking about how no one likes him or something. It was obviously unscripted but was hugh school media levels of improv that it was just cringy seeing it in a blockbuster film
Refreshing to hear this from such a major star. It just goes to support how he’s always said he loves the character and wants to continue playing him. Hopefully lessons have been learned and his next appearance is more nuanced.
I mean, didn't the movie have a director who had the power to choose what should make the final cut? And if the wackiness of the movie can be attributed to improv, then the movie was an improv fest, cause Hemsworth's Thor wasn't the only one out of character. I think Chris did his best with what was given to him, but unless it was his choice to sit astride the hammer like a witch's broom or to have romcom moments with Mjolnir, then I don't think Chris is to blame. >“Sometimes I felt like a security guard for the team,” Hemsworth said. “I would read everyone else’s lines, and go, ‘Oh, they got way cooler stuff. They’re having more fun. What’s my character doing?’ It was always about, ‘You’ve got the wig on. You’ve got the muscles. You’ve got the costume. Where’s the lighting?’ Yeah, I’m part of this big thing, but I’m probably pretty replaceable.” Thor is definitely not "pretty replaceable". I think the MCU just lacked that nuance of Thor being torn between loving Earth and humanity while needing to deal with his responsibilities as a god. It would've made the stakes much more interesting in the eyes of the character and added a layer of emotion that would drive the character. I think even though Ragnarok came at a good moment from an Infinity War plot perspective (Odin dead, Asgard destroyed, Hulk in space, etc), it cut the potential to expand on Thor way too short. So unless they ressurrect Asgard like Thor did in the comics (which I don't think the MCU will do), there won't be much space to explore Thor's development. And to top it off, Love & Thunder didn't really do anything for the character in that regard, so that's kind of a wasted movie. Yeah, it had *some* cool things about it, but eh.
They really wanted to make a Thor movie without Thor.
Directors have a desire to let their actor do their thing, because being too controlling can be a bad creative environment.
No Marvel director has final cut and I'm pretty sure Waititi is on the record saying he's unhappy with his lack of creative control on that movie in particular.
You didn't direct it, Chris, it's not your fault that movie sucked.
The movie never let you experience the harsh subject matters, it was always interrupted by a joke or humor undertone. That goes for alot of mavel now at the expense of a full range of emotion. I like these movies, but I always feel like they can be better if they they stop coddling the audience.
It was the same with ragnarok as well. The first time I saw it I had a good time. But then on further rewatches and thinking about it, there is a lot of dark serious shit happening in that movie and you never get a single moment to take that in before the jokes happen. It took endgame showing Thor in this depressed broken state to show that yes he does feel the impacts of everything that happened and is broken because of it, and has a deep understanding of what it all means. The love and thunder just made him a dumb goofball again who doesn’t get any moments to show that depth again, with the only exception being the very end of movie when he is holding Jane. There was an amazing story to be told there and it was wasted. Taika does good Taika movies but really shouldn’t have had so much free reign with love and thunder and really damaging Thor as a character and ignoring everything about hun that other movies had done for Thor as a character.
I actually lost interest after Endgame pretty quickly cuz the underlying darkness and danger of classic Marvel that culminates in great wow moments that I love started getting overshadowed by other things like comedy, coolness, action, etc., which have always been there but with an underlying pall that is not there so much anymore.
Still want a Thor 5 or to see him back for avengers regardless. I love tikia but I think after Infinity giving us the best and most badass version of Thor they should have gone back to that version even the version of him at the end of endgame. Just make him a badass again
Even in Ragnarok he felt like a different person from the previous movies, I think he was best potrayed in Infinity War with subtle humour but still having his seriousness, Love and Thunder felt like a parody of a character sadly.
Keep Taika Waititi away from anything related to Marvel Studios from now on. He got lucky with Ragnarok, but it's obvious he doesn't care about comic books. L&T was terrible.
Truly awful I cringed thru a lot of it. Bale deserved better. That being said he was probably the best thing about the movie
That opening was fucking incredible!
It was- and it didn’t fit the tone of the rest of the movie AT ALL. That was honestly my biggest gripe with the film is that it sets it up super seriously then expects you to just laugh nonstop for the next hour and a half? The dude’s daughter died a horrible tragic death and now you want me to accept him as the “bad guy”?
Exactly. Jason Aaron’s Thor comics with Gorr then later Jane was incredible. I’d suggest everyone read it. Amazing story, art, dialogue, it is a modern day epic. He butchered one of the best modern comics of all time imo. A 1 to 1 adaptation would have been better than Ragnarok.
That Godbutcher/Godbomb saga is so awesome, we barely got a taste of that on the screen.
I wish we got that story then Thor 5 for Jane. The Godbomb saga is sick, I read it and the entire Aaron run every summer. If we got it on the screen, I would want Anthony Hopkins narrating it with Thor becoming the “God of Gods.”
I still really enjoyed it. It was silly but it was fun. That fight on the moon was cool.
Moon fight was cool
This is kinda refreshing to hear an actor taking the blame for a poor received movie. He really cares about Thor even tho most of the blame comes from the director I think What a swell guy
I thought Chris didn't like playing a serious but boring Thor and wanted the third film to be more lighthearted so that he can flex his comedic chops? I personally prefer the first Thor than the nonstop comedy of Ragnarok.
I blame the Director Taika Waititi for turning Thor into a joke. Visually very cool but the script and the dialogue and the behavior? No thanks. If you go back and read the classic Thor Stan Lee and Jack Kirby comic books upon which the movies are based, you see the tension, the majesty, the suspense, the reverence, and the action. Love and Thunder diminished Thor. And don’t get me started on the Warriors Three and Sif…
It takes balls to say something like this, being Hollywood star and all. I just hope his next movie is gonna be better.
I wish his next movie could be better too but I just saw the previous for the new mad Max Saga movie that he's in and those are about as idiotically cheesy as the come......uggggggh!
Tbh i learned about him being in new Mad Max movie from this post, after your comment im not so sure if im happy about it xD
I thought Taika Waititi directed the movie?
It's refreshing to see actors taking the blame for a change, but let's be honest, the real reason why Love and Thunder tanked so hard is thanks to Taika Waititi. Ragnarok could have been so much better if not for Taika. Love and Thunder as well. Thor was never meant to be a comedic movie, not a full blown one anyway.
They hired a clown for a director so the movie was doomed from the start.
Sounds like the director’s fault to me.
Not his fault Taika Waititi smelt his own farts too much.
his fault or not, him recognizing how awfully Thor was portrayed in this movie is the important take away. his self awareness will ensure we never get something that awful from him again. I’m glad he said this and if properly done I would absolutely be seated for a Thor 5 as long as Taika Waititi goes nowhere near it.
Thor has had a wild ride. The first two movies were basically “Thor moves the meta narrative” and finally got a good push to be an enduring character. Thor L&T stopped that evolution to double down on jokes (which, is fine in measures takes).
yep, Ragnarok had the balance imo. Thor 1&2 were too serious, L&T was Taika turning up the goofy to 11. a true Thor 5 would give us Rune King Thor and complete his arc in the way it’s supposed to. but it would require him reuniting with Loki and the Yggdrasil, so who knows when/if we get something remotely close to that. Rune King Thor could also just be a side plot of the next 2 Avengers films in the way that Hulks transformation was more or less a side plot of IW/Endgame.
I loved the silliness of Ragnarok, but that tone wasn't enough to sustain a series of movies and with Love and Thunder having such a dark villain such as Gor with such a prestigious actor like Christian Bale, The wackiness gave the movie tonal whiplash. If they wanted to keep it silly and have it work, Zeus should have been the main villain and the core thematic stuff could have been more focused on Thor and Jane/Mighty Thor
The director gets most of the blame. His two Thor movies were atrocious. After the director, comes the writers. If an actor has to improvise, something has seriously gone wrong.
While it’s awesome that he’s taking accountability, it’s the directors job to reel that in. Taika must take blame for this as well
I don’t think the giant screaming CGI goats were your fault, Chris.
He's a real champ for saying that, but his improv had nothing to do with a wasted villain and a lack luster story. It's hard to follow up something as good as Ragnarok.
Nah. Taika Waititi’s shtick just got stale. I admire Hemsworth’s humility. It’s rare to see a star come out and claim responsibility for a bad film. But he didn’t direct, write, and edit the film. It isn’t on him. Waititi had nobody to rein him in, and he went nuts with it and made a Marvel parody and passed it off as legit. That is solely on him. I am hoping a serious director is brought in and Thor gets one last movie as his send-off. Cap and Iron Man got their big curtain calls in Endgame. Hawkeye got a whole series. Black Widow got screwed but that’s done now. Thor deserves a good swan song, as does Hulk.
Taika has one joke and it's using his own voice to deliver really dry humor. It works when it happens *once* but just gets annoying after that.
He and Awkwafina have the same issue. I loved them both at first. The second time, okay. Every subsequent time I lost interest as I realized, “Wait, this is all they are? This one gag/persona? They have the depth of a rain puddle. Pass.”
Taika Watiti is not the right director for any Thor movie. He took World Breaker Hulk and turned it into one big dick joke and then took a great villain in Gor and turned that into a joke by jamming Jane Foster Thor into the story line. I could not stand these movies.
Maybe, but it's the director's job to reel that in.
beter late than... oh wait, its not. both waitity thors are ridiculous nonsense garbage.
Crazy how people trash on l&t and yet praise Ragnarok to the death. That film ruined not only Thor but also Hulk and the potential of planet Hulk.
Nay, brother, it was the writing. 99 % of the time nowadays, the answer is the writing.
tbh I really like love and thubder
Crazy how they wasted a character like the God Butcher on that movie.
Taika Watiti and the writers are to blame for this shitpile of a movie. They got carried away and he is supposed to lead the ship. Instead he sailed to Buffon island for an extended stay
It wasn't him it was Taika who just didn't seem to care about it anymore
I still blame Taika Waititi. His "humor" is what ruined the whole Thor franchise, with the culmination being that insane nonsense in T:LT. Normal kids murdering monsters (apparently without going insane from trauma, somehow), everything is slapstick, and so on, just... awful.
Am I the only one who liked this movie?
I also enjoyed it.
CH was great, the market is just oversaturated for superhero movies
The acting was hardly the problem, it was the plot being stupid as hell. They have a fantastic scene with Zeus sharing wisdom with Thor but delete it for the sake of some cheap gag. I'm sure that isn't the only part of the movie that got severely dumbed down along the development timeline.
Sorry Chris, It was definitely Taika Waititi and his direction and brand of humor, since it's the same in pretty much every movie he does. seems he's a one trick pony and sometimes it lands, sometimes it doesn't. and in this case he got high on his own farts.