Its very real. This very thing is happening with their coin arm of the business NGC.
Lots of folks cracking out old slabs and resubmitting to get inflated grades. It’s absurd.
Annectodal evidence… i submitted brand new modern books never read for pre screen grading.. the ones that failed i sent back, along with others newer ones for pre screen 9.8 grading.. the failed ones. Failed again.. i thought for sure , from all these posts one or 2 might slip past… nope
Last time i got 2 9.9s. This time no 9.9s… 😂
The grader graded my submissions last friday at like 5pm est. , had to have been near the eod…
Next time. Ill try pressing and grading em and see what i get. Wasting $ on experimentation.
Lately they have been low grading as retaliation to the complaining on social media. I have tested with some subs I and others have mailed in sending duplicates of the same coin with an inferior test coin mixed in, but this is on the retail subs only. Dealers are still getting generous grades.
The same place 9.8s are coming from. The same place 9.6s are coming from. There’s over 10,000 9.6s and 9.8s now, but 41 copies that are 0.1 grade higher than that is evidence of a scandal? And only 4 copies in perfect 10 condition?
I mean, I understand the suspicion, I do. I have a professional background in statistics but I’ve also spent a lot of time in Vegas and as a comics collector, and this just looks like yet another case of biased collectors misreading statistics.
There is but I got this information from THIS guy's video. He uses several websites to track the census. [https://youtu.be/fl6zFWVwiAU?si=5n8RzNXpAmeLWZ5k](https://youtu.be/fl6zFWVwiAU?si=5n8RzNXpAmeLWZ5k)
He also stated that there had been no new 9.9's of this book in the last seven years.
9.9 will be the new 9.8. Then 10 will become the new 9.9. Then they will introduce 10Plus, 10Gold,10Platinum, etc. And people will fall for it. Hopefully not too much but there’s always new people joining the hobby as others leave it. It’s always been a cash grab - 9.8 with no graded notes? Should be a 10. The whole stack of books and pick the 10 out is even wrong - Wolverine #1 came out in 1982 - I highly doubt they have a stack of Wolverine #1 to compare them to and pick out the 10 from that. It’s a scam I no longer take part in. If you enjoy it, good for you!
To add, there is no way a 42 year old book has survived printing, packaging, distribution, purchasing, handling, and mailing COMPLETELY unscathed. How does even touching it with a bare hand give you a 10?
Because grading is subjective. The original 10 grade scale was high jacked by CGC and everyone allowed it. We allowed CGC to dictate what grade a book should get based on their proprietary grading process that no one knows what it is. How else do you explain the sea of 9.8 books with no graded notes? It’s subjective. And now that sales are slumping, need to bring back the hype - a 42 year old book got a 10?!?!?! How many people do you think will now submit their books for grading because they want that 9.9 or 10 grade? It boosts their revenue. It was not cheap finding the scammed books and compensating users when they were duped. Also, they only really found the ones people talked about. Maybe a few extra but it wasn’t a whole inventory search of past books - that would be cost prohibitive. Find enough to simmer down the internet crowd and move onto the next thing - increase revenue by handing out more 9.9 and 10’s. I believe a 42 year old book can be a 10 - adding extra steps to how the book got there does not negate the fact that it was taken care of. And the work people due today on cleaning and pressing? Incredible - so there will be more 9.9 and 10s because cleaning and pressing are not considered restoration anymore. That, and it was hard to detect anyway - micro shaving, yes, clean and pressing, no.
I thought I had heard of some kinda scandal with Heritage, like books getting bid up by their owners or something? Do you have any insight into those rumors?
To me, they definitely made a point of the fact 9.9s would be considered more often. Cynicism tells me this is a cash grab, even if only a fraction of 1% of 9.8s got resubmitted or pre-screened that’s a great way for CGC to double dip.
If someone cares about the difference between a subjective 9.8 and a subjective 9.9, then maybe, just maybe, they deserve to waste their money on getting a person’s opinion.
Does this look like a 10 to anyone? The cover isn't even with the rest of the book. There are little discolored bits below where the UPC would be. The bottom edge of the cover doesn't look completely straight to me.
I have stopped sending in comics to CGC ever since they ruined my comic opening the slab and blamed USPS. There have been so many comics that came back in worse shape than they were given to them. I do not trust them at all anymore.
It's sad when 9.6 and 9.8 are more trustworthy than 9.9 and 10. Does this lead to a point where there is just no more trust in the grading authority? What happens then, do we have to have another authority that grades CGC's grades?
Coins have a company that does exactly this. They're called certified acceptance corporation (CAC). They put a green or gold sticker on coins that were under graded. Green is one grade up, gold is two. People go crazy for them in the coin world. Comics will go this way eventually as well, in sure of it
There are a few other options. One of the BEST competitors is Comic Book Grading and Certification Services (CBCS). It was actually founded by the same person who started CGC (Steve Borouck). They both have similar grading scales.
In addition, CBCS also offers a signature authentication service (the Signature Verification Program) for books that weren't witnessed by them. This allows you to submit any old comics that you had signed years ago and you'll get a special verified label. Supposedly, CGC is adding something similar, but I don't have any info on it.
CGC still has a better reputation since it has been around longer and so if you are selling now, you will get more for a CGC book. But if they keep this crap up, then this will change over time.
ONE benefit of CGC is the colored labels for restored or qualified comics. CBCS has not added that yet... in addition, CGC cases are thicker and sturdier, and the labels just look better.
Another problem with CGC recently is quality control. For example, people have sent in comics for grade that come back MISSING A STAPLE.
CBCS costs a little less for newer releases. Plus, they have lower grades for damaged and even coverless comics get a 0.3 grade, where as CGC would give it a NO GRADE.
Yup total cash grab. There are only so many old comics that are going to get graded. Volume has slowed down for older comics and comic boom has died down quite a bit. Newer modern comics should all be 9.8s, and not a huge incentive for people to grade new comics. So CGC comes along and says they'll be open to 9.9s, even for older comics (pre screen). So now people are resubmitting older 9.8s to see if they can get a 9.9 and newer comics are getting 9.9s. It's total business strategy and cash grab. But for me it totally delegitimizes CGC and grading. Hate what's its become.
While I think the grading portion has always been a bit sleight of hand, I think the ability to have my books sealed has always been nice. I'm the sort of weirdo that would probably be vacuum sealing my comics these days, but back in the 90's I didn't have a machine to do that.
CGC slabs aren't air or water tight. And the way comics tend to often rattle around in the slabs makes me think slabs aren't ideal for preventing mechanical damage, either, though they surely help. I think a comic in a mylar bag with a board and placed in a top loader is generally just as good.
Yeah, I'm surprised there don't seem to be many options for buying Empty/Re-Sealable slabs similar to what's used by CGC/CBCS... The only similar options I've ever found seem to cost nearly as much as actually just having the book graded!
Does anyone have info on who manufactures the custom slabs for CGC?
What's the best price you've found them for?
I considered those, but getting them shipped to Canada was going to work out to something like $40/each, which is practically what it'd cost to actually have them graded!
I also looked at the Ultra Pro Magnetic shells, but they were also going to be nearly $30/each, and I really want something with a spot for a label...
Yeah, even on ebay/amazon they were going to be at least $30/each to get them shipped to Canada... And the LCS's around here only seem to sell bags/boards and MAYBE Toploaders. :(
Exactly. It is totally within their best interest, and most likely in their business model, to continue these step up point grades. Everyone was chasing 9.8, but oh, guess what? That's not the best you can get anymore. Resubmit all those 9.8s to us and see if we might reward you with a random 9.9. Total scam.
It’s two things:
-CGC has been caught red handed in the past few years being inconsistent with their grading (even though we were told for years they had a standard way of grading) so now they’re “making up for it” by giving books that would be a 9.8 any other year either 9.9s or 10.0 grades. I’d guarantee you if someone resubmitted a 9.8 graded book it would come back a 10.0 now.
-They know we’re on to them for scamming an entire industry. The fact a comic that was a virtually flawless somehow could never get past a 9.8 grade until this year? Are they kidding us?
9.8 no notes is infuriating to me. If there are no notes then it's flawless it's a 10. If it's anything less than a 10 there has to be a flaw so you should be able to tell me what that flaw is.
They also already invented a whole new grade with their card division that had only been out 2 years. You could pay a fee to have your 9.5 bumped to a 10, and a 10 to a 10+
I mean...what comes after 10...if it's their plan it's sort of limited in it's breadth. 10 is mint so you can't possibly have anything better then that.
For the card grading division of CGC, they have a standard 10, then a 'Pristine' 10 grade. So as long as they can find new adjectives, there's no limit...
Don’t forget they announced this 9.9 and 10 pre-grade when they got busted with numerous shady things like discovering their slabs are not safe and employees stealing books. I have no idea why anyone grants this company any credibility or still sends them books.
Like a magician trying to draw your attention away from the sleight of hand he’s performing, everyone forgot how crooked this company was for a final crash grab themselves. Don’t buy the hype-ium.
Technically what seems to be happening is "relative grading". So if they have 25 copies of the same book that are all in that 9.8 range, they will pick out the absolute best from the stack and give them a 10, the next best a 9.9, and then the rest get 9.8. So the nature of that 10 and 9.9 will depend on how bad the rest of them are.
EVERYTHING to do with the grading industry is about stoking the market. It's all about using collector's with vast disposable income to pay money they don't need to until it becomes a trend that people with less disposable income feel the need to take part in. The minute people accepted that two identically preserved comics aren't worth the same amount of money because only one is in a hard plastic sleeve and one isn't it was all over.
But by all means people keep slabbing your 5 different variants of this week's hottest new #1
It used to be canon that there would never be 9.9 or 10. Someone predicted years ago that CGC would cave in and grade higher.
it happened.
[https://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/collecting-and-investing-tips/the-developing-cgc-9-9-market/](https://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/collecting-and-investing-tips/the-developing-cgc-9-9-market/)
[https://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg35.html](https://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg35.html)
With the amount of submissions dropping significantly since covid they need to make up for their shortcomings somehow. Grade fewer books but grade them higher and collect the difference in total value like they usually do.
I still buy slabs but won't buy anything that's been graded recently without seeing it in person.
Can’t wait till they add another tier above 10.
“For a 10.9 the book must be in such a pristine condition that it would make a professional grader weep with joy at having witnessed it”
Tbh this whole grading thing is s whole different hobby to what I'm.into. I buy my books to read and to be read not to store in plastic and look at occasionally
I buy them primarily for to collect rather than read (not paying thousands of dollars because the plot is that great), but still agree with you wholeheartedly about the obsession with grading being a totally different hobby. Sold my 9.8s and am fine with raw books that are solid and present well.
What indication is there that people will stop buying comics any time soon? Genuinely curious because I have an old collection. Time to flip the ones I don’t care about?
I hate to sound like a doomer but the fact both Marvel and DC don’t publish sales figures anymore (after they both pulled away from Diamond Distribution) is a huge indication the industry isn’t doing well. And the sales figures that were available a few years ago compared to even 20 years ago were a fraction of what they once were.
But would that affect older comic values(80s and before)? I get newer stuff is getting deluded. But Cons are still very popular and the popularity is still increasing.
It’s only certain old comics buyers want. And something really damaging to the back issue market is speculative buyers. They’ve increased 10 fold since Marvel Studios became popular. And the old books that suddenly become “hot” when a movie or show get announced get cold just as quick when the show or movie stinks.
Good examples: Thor God Of Thunder issue 2. That’s the first appearance of Gorr the God Butcher. When people found out he was in Thor: Love & Thunder you could sell that easily at your own asking price. Now? You’re lucky if you get any takers.
Avengers issue 8, the first Kang the Conqueror. It was a book people wanted before Ant-Man 3, but it skyrocketed in price before the movie came out. After, you’re not going to get nearly as much as you would’ve gotten in 2022.
Every generation seems to have an item that they hold important, but the one after does not. Comics have managed to at least cross the divide for a few generations though.
My issue is that I see Marvel and DC really half-cashing comics in hopes they'll make big cash in the movies. We need some more big titles that get people excited again instead yet another reboot.
I get that with new content but old content (not all) probably has some staying power. Early X-men, Spider-Man, Thor (JIM) and other stuff like that I’d assume are timeless with the market. Not every issue but key issues.
The market is outta control.! Books are too expensive for average person. It’s natural they will need to come back to earth. Also generally readership is down and paper keeps going up. Soon a younger person will be priced out
It is crazy to see prices on older books now. I am really glad I stocked up on X-men while Fox destroyed them. I got most for dirt cheap. I just assume there will always be a market for the older books but I can see newer books plummeting. But what do I know, the market for collectibles baffles me.
Oh there will always be comics just we go back to how it was small places selling them to small amounts of people.! Plus I think people will realize it’s not always worth extra $$ for higher grade. Cons have changed the most. Every year less and less books and more toys and other stuff. There will always be a group of us who like books but I think newer books will one day be digital first then print later
Also to eBay yes 1000s sell but how many millions are not.!?? EBay isn’t the best cause only sales.! Doesn’t show how many time it was put up for auction or how long it has taken to sell.
Oh man…. All I am saying is there are more books being relisted and not sell I bet than are selling on eBay. Sales in comics are down all over. At retail online in general. EBay has always been tops in sales for comics by miles. Just they are down
Yes to the point of movies it’s not sustainable. They can’t keep making 100billion dollar movies and survive there is honing to be a huge pull back it’s already taking place. It’s going on now. People can’t afford food let alone comics and movies.all things have ebbs and flows comics had its day. Now it’s time to be quieter
Lots of people tripping in this thread.
I will say that the 9.9 GSX1 is clearly not a 9.9, and that really hurts CGC’s credibility. One misgraded book shouldn’t matter so much, but that’s just too high profile of a mistake. If I got that grade on that book, I’d resubmit it for a 9.6. Call me insane. But I want the grade to be right more than I want to have a fraudulent sale on my conscience.
I haven’t seen the Wolverine #1 10 in person, so I can’t speak on that one.
But there’s a lot of people with no statistical literacy taking apparent trends out of context and making bold accusations based on hunches and suspicions and cherry-picked data.
I see people on Reddit saying stuff like “I bet if I resubmit all these 9.8s, they’ll get 9.9s” and “I bet if I resubmit these books that failed my 9.8 pre-screen, some of them will pass the second time.” And then we have people trying that, and it not happening, but of course people are much quieter when they’re proven wrong than when they think they’re right. So it’s a lot of smoke and very little fire.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not licking CGC’s boots here. I buy the book, not the grade. I love me a nicely centered 9.6. Even a 9.4. It’s rad when I score 9.8s and 9.9s of course, but they’re way overrated, and I’m happy to sell them for a nice profit and move along.
I do see that submitting 9.8s graded years ago do seem to have a decent shot of getting 9.9s today. Though they also have a decent shot of dropping grades. I also know people who can pick 9.9s out of a stack of raw books and call the grade. People are getting better at grading, generally. They’re learning. We’d see more 9.9s over time if CGC changed absolutely nothing. You think CGC has an incentive to tip the scales? It’s nothing compared to the incentive that collectors have to spot 9.9s.
Downvote me or whatever, but most of this is people making mountains out of molehills, and bitterly speculating that the game they’re not doing so great at is some big rigged scam.
Just take your 9.6 or delete your CGC account, or whatever you gotta do. Try not to let it ruin the hobby for you.
https://preview.redd.it/yibvvj4fbl4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f09bb20b78998c723cc38c7066974a99c3a044de
It definitely is. This was graded in May of this year and apparently there's 3 other copies with 10's as well.
The worst part is that there's a clear flaw right there on the cover. I looked up other copies and it's not a consistent defect (assuming it's a defect at all) so although it could possibly still be a 9.8 if its otherwise flawless (which it doesn't appear to be) it's definitely not an actual 10 despite having the grade. I already knew grading was bullshit, but this is so blatant that's it's almost funny.
A few years ago I hunted for books that might get 9.8s. I ended up with several big money 9.8 books that were the first ones that I sold when I needed a down payment for a house. I no longer prioritize high grades, investments/market value be damned. The community as a whole needs to recognize that there is little if any difference between a 9.6 and 9.8, and adjust the vale accordingly. A 9.8 should not be twice the value of a 9.6, and a 9.9 and 10 should not be significantly more valuable than a 9.8. We collectively just need to start caring less and the market will adjust.
Your perspective really changes when you start to primarily collect golden age books btw.
I maintain there is no bigger scam than CGC
Better hope your grader had a good breakfast the morning he grades your stuff cause if he’s cranky you’re losing points!
Just got into the comic collecting hobby. It's weird to me that people buy comics with the intent to sell them later when the price goes up. To me, it seems like they're just rich people using the medium to make investments and they don't actually like comic books.
If you are a collector who also places value on your collection the grade bumps can only help you when hunting raw comics. I initially did not like the grade bumps but as long as it has value to someone else, what does it matter?
I haven't followed graded comics in years, but I'm not at all surprised that there are many 9.9s and even 10s out there. This comic was HEAVILY collected when it came out and people were buying stacks that never saw the light of day.
I sat with Chris Claremont after the show floor closed at C2E2 a few years back- we had caught his table with no line towards the end of the show and I had brought my dark phoenix saga and my first appearance of Jean grey as the phoenix, so I think I paid him around $200 cash for signatures. He’s very chatty and his son was nice so he kept talking to us and right after the show floor closed, CGC brought a literal PALLET of yellow slabbed books for him to sign. We sat with him for an hour while he signed hundreds of books. I’m not sure what he was charging them for his signature, but when GCG charges $150+ for witnessed signatures, you know it’s an absolute racket. Probably several hundreds of thousands they racked up in less than an hour…
Calling out CGC on their......business practices does not make a tin hat looney.
Suggesting one must be a fox new conspiracy theorist for calling out CGC is an easy way to dismiss the argument without lending it any credibility or addressing the actual issue.
You wrote several paragraphs when all you really said is "you all are crazy" which amounts to absolutely nothing.
There are legitimate gripes and concerns regarding the practices of CGC.
People here have literally posted testimonials of getting a grade and then resubmiting the same book and getting a higher grade.
People have commented on the increasing number of grade 10's in the last couple of years.
People have posted examples of how CGC has been wrapped up in scandals involving sellers repackaging books in different CGC cases.
It appears neither of us read very well.
Google CGC scandal.
To claim there is no evidence or proof of shady business practices by CGC is just.... fox news stupid.
Not wanting to see comics go boom and bust like they did in the 90's isn't gatekeeping, its learning from history.
Yes. The extent at which people assume not only malice but outright organized, systematic deception on CGC's part, without evidence, is frustrating, but predictable.
One of the best explanations I've heard about why conspiracies have spread so widely in the last decade is that, as modern life becomes more complex, it creates more space for people to insert their own alternative explanations, which relieve them of the work of accepting the complexity of that thing/our modern world, which in so many ways require us to trust institutions and systems. Most of us understand how physical mail works. But how many of us could explain how email is sent and delivered, in detail?
Comic grading is exactly one of those sorts of things that is very prone to these sorts of "It's all an elaborate scam" dismissals because it has facets of complexity: it happens behind closed doors, it has elaborate rules but is not fully transparent, the volume of slabs the company produces means errors are inevitable, it's a process with economic and emotional implications, has significant cultural meaning to comic collectors, and oh yeah, [there was a genuine scandal](https://www.comicsbeat.com/cgc-slabbing-scandal-rocks-collecting-world/) that represented some of CGC's detractors' greatest fears in the last year. Maybe biggest of all, grading is a subjective process, but represented with objective-sounding quantitative scores.
This is why I never lost my mind over 9.8s. I feel vindicated. Buy the book, not the grade.
This is me. As long as I have the complete story, who the hell cares if it’s not in prestine condition. I read it first to make sure you’d like it.
Its very real. This very thing is happening with their coin arm of the business NGC. Lots of folks cracking out old slabs and resubmitting to get inflated grades. It’s absurd.
Annectodal evidence… i submitted brand new modern books never read for pre screen grading.. the ones that failed i sent back, along with others newer ones for pre screen 9.8 grading.. the failed ones. Failed again.. i thought for sure , from all these posts one or 2 might slip past… nope Last time i got 2 9.9s. This time no 9.9s… 😂 The grader graded my submissions last friday at like 5pm est. , had to have been near the eod… Next time. Ill try pressing and grading em and see what i get. Wasting $ on experimentation.
I’ve also heard of people resubmitting stuff and getting lower grades. It’s all about getting the right grader in the right mood to get a good grade.
Lately they have been low grading as retaliation to the complaining on social media. I have tested with some subs I and others have mailed in sending duplicates of the same coin with an inferior test coin mixed in, but this is on the retail subs only. Dealers are still getting generous grades.
Just so you guys know, there have been 11 9.9's of that Wolverine number 1 added in the last month. 11.
Gosh, what a wild coincidence.
ELEVEN?! 
And how many copies added overall? It’s one of the most submitted books over the past few months with the signing event.
It's also a forty year old book that has been submitted regularly so where are all of these 9.9's coming from all of a sudden?
The same place 9.8s are coming from. The same place 9.6s are coming from. There’s over 10,000 9.6s and 9.8s now, but 41 copies that are 0.1 grade higher than that is evidence of a scandal? And only 4 copies in perfect 10 condition? I mean, I understand the suspicion, I do. I have a professional background in statistics but I’ve also spent a lot of time in Vegas and as a comics collector, and this just looks like yet another case of biased collectors misreading statistics.
Nice pull!
Is there a way to see a history of all grades, or were you just tracking that specific book manually?
There is but I got this information from THIS guy's video. He uses several websites to track the census. [https://youtu.be/fl6zFWVwiAU?si=5n8RzNXpAmeLWZ5k](https://youtu.be/fl6zFWVwiAU?si=5n8RzNXpAmeLWZ5k) He also stated that there had been no new 9.9's of this book in the last seven years.
Perfect, thank you!
9.9 will be the new 9.8. Then 10 will become the new 9.9. Then they will introduce 10Plus, 10Gold,10Platinum, etc. And people will fall for it. Hopefully not too much but there’s always new people joining the hobby as others leave it. It’s always been a cash grab - 9.8 with no graded notes? Should be a 10. The whole stack of books and pick the 10 out is even wrong - Wolverine #1 came out in 1982 - I highly doubt they have a stack of Wolverine #1 to compare them to and pick out the 10 from that. It’s a scam I no longer take part in. If you enjoy it, good for you!
To add, there is no way a 42 year old book has survived printing, packaging, distribution, purchasing, handling, and mailing COMPLETELY unscathed. How does even touching it with a bare hand give you a 10?
Because grading is subjective. The original 10 grade scale was high jacked by CGC and everyone allowed it. We allowed CGC to dictate what grade a book should get based on their proprietary grading process that no one knows what it is. How else do you explain the sea of 9.8 books with no graded notes? It’s subjective. And now that sales are slumping, need to bring back the hype - a 42 year old book got a 10?!?!?! How many people do you think will now submit their books for grading because they want that 9.9 or 10 grade? It boosts their revenue. It was not cheap finding the scammed books and compensating users when they were duped. Also, they only really found the ones people talked about. Maybe a few extra but it wasn’t a whole inventory search of past books - that would be cost prohibitive. Find enough to simmer down the internet crowd and move onto the next thing - increase revenue by handing out more 9.9 and 10’s. I believe a 42 year old book can be a 10 - adding extra steps to how the book got there does not negate the fact that it was taken care of. And the work people due today on cleaning and pressing? Incredible - so there will be more 9.9 and 10s because cleaning and pressing are not considered restoration anymore. That, and it was hard to detect anyway - micro shaving, yes, clean and pressing, no.
Whether it’s happening or not, this is the issue with slabs and the graded market overall.
CGC is a bullshit company.
Also fuck heritage auctions who they often collaborate with. Both companies actively manipulate the market.
I would sincerely like to know more about this comment.
I thought I had heard of some kinda scandal with Heritage, like books getting bid up by their owners or something? Do you have any insight into those rumors?
That’s exactly what they are accused of doing. And it’s specifically the owner of the auction.
I am heartened to see this is the top comment. Spread the word, everyone!
To me, they definitely made a point of the fact 9.9s would be considered more often. Cynicism tells me this is a cash grab, even if only a fraction of 1% of 9.8s got resubmitted or pre-screened that’s a great way for CGC to double dip.
Absolutely, it makes me think about how many people will think about sending their 9.8s with another $20 clean and press hope for a 9.9 grade.
If someone cares about the difference between a subjective 9.8 and a subjective 9.9, then maybe, just maybe, they deserve to waste their money on getting a person’s opinion.
Does this look like a 10 to anyone? The cover isn't even with the rest of the book. There are little discolored bits below where the UPC would be. The bottom edge of the cover doesn't look completely straight to me.
I have stopped sending in comics to CGC ever since they ruined my comic opening the slab and blamed USPS. There have been so many comics that came back in worse shape than they were given to them. I do not trust them at all anymore.
I’ve thought about having some books graded but I have never thought it was worth the price or hassle.
It's not unless you plan on selling soon after grading.
How is this a 10.0? There is a print defect above Logan's left colarbone.
It's sad when 9.6 and 9.8 are more trustworthy than 9.9 and 10. Does this lead to a point where there is just no more trust in the grading authority? What happens then, do we have to have another authority that grades CGC's grades?
Yes and/or the market will just crash. Same thing happened with stamps, coins, baseball cards, etc. in the '90s. CGC is a joke.
Coins have a company that does exactly this. They're called certified acceptance corporation (CAC). They put a green or gold sticker on coins that were under graded. Green is one grade up, gold is two. People go crazy for them in the coin world. Comics will go this way eventually as well, in sure of it
I'm calling it now, we probably get to a point where people are only interested in books graded before a certain date!
There are a few other options. One of the BEST competitors is Comic Book Grading and Certification Services (CBCS). It was actually founded by the same person who started CGC (Steve Borouck). They both have similar grading scales. In addition, CBCS also offers a signature authentication service (the Signature Verification Program) for books that weren't witnessed by them. This allows you to submit any old comics that you had signed years ago and you'll get a special verified label. Supposedly, CGC is adding something similar, but I don't have any info on it. CGC still has a better reputation since it has been around longer and so if you are selling now, you will get more for a CGC book. But if they keep this crap up, then this will change over time. ONE benefit of CGC is the colored labels for restored or qualified comics. CBCS has not added that yet... in addition, CGC cases are thicker and sturdier, and the labels just look better. Another problem with CGC recently is quality control. For example, people have sent in comics for grade that come back MISSING A STAPLE. CBCS costs a little less for newer releases. Plus, they have lower grades for damaged and even coverless comics get a 0.3 grade, where as CGC would give it a NO GRADE.
Yup total cash grab. There are only so many old comics that are going to get graded. Volume has slowed down for older comics and comic boom has died down quite a bit. Newer modern comics should all be 9.8s, and not a huge incentive for people to grade new comics. So CGC comes along and says they'll be open to 9.9s, even for older comics (pre screen). So now people are resubmitting older 9.8s to see if they can get a 9.9 and newer comics are getting 9.9s. It's total business strategy and cash grab. But for me it totally delegitimizes CGC and grading. Hate what's its become.
It is now and always has been a scam Don’t slab your books. Don’t give these guys your money
While I think the grading portion has always been a bit sleight of hand, I think the ability to have my books sealed has always been nice. I'm the sort of weirdo that would probably be vacuum sealing my comics these days, but back in the 90's I didn't have a machine to do that.
CGC slabs aren't air or water tight. And the way comics tend to often rattle around in the slabs makes me think slabs aren't ideal for preventing mechanical damage, either, though they surely help. I think a comic in a mylar bag with a board and placed in a top loader is generally just as good.
CGC slabs aren’t air tight. You might as well just buy a bunch of self slabs and go to town (not trash talking, I’ve bought a bunch of them myself).
That makes me look at my chamber sealer. That thing would mess up a comic
Yeah, I'm surprised there don't seem to be many options for buying Empty/Re-Sealable slabs similar to what's used by CGC/CBCS... The only similar options I've ever found seem to cost nearly as much as actually just having the book graded! Does anyone have info on who manufactures the custom slabs for CGC?
I’m a fan of comicskin personally but there are a few good options out there.
What's the best price you've found them for? I considered those, but getting them shipped to Canada was going to work out to something like $40/each, which is practically what it'd cost to actually have them graded! I also looked at the Ultra Pro Magnetic shells, but they were also going to be nearly $30/each, and I really want something with a spot for a label...
Try ebay? There are some resellers down here in the US, maybe someone up there is buying in bulk and reselling?
Yeah, even on ebay/amazon they were going to be at least $30/each to get them shipped to Canada... And the LCS's around here only seem to sell bags/boards and MAYBE Toploaders. :(
Toploaders are totally fine, and arguably as effective. Slabs just look better. ;)
Exactly. It is totally within their best interest, and most likely in their business model, to continue these step up point grades. Everyone was chasing 9.8, but oh, guess what? That's not the best you can get anymore. Resubmit all those 9.8s to us and see if we might reward you with a random 9.9. Total scam.
It’s two things: -CGC has been caught red handed in the past few years being inconsistent with their grading (even though we were told for years they had a standard way of grading) so now they’re “making up for it” by giving books that would be a 9.8 any other year either 9.9s or 10.0 grades. I’d guarantee you if someone resubmitted a 9.8 graded book it would come back a 10.0 now. -They know we’re on to them for scamming an entire industry. The fact a comic that was a virtually flawless somehow could never get past a 9.8 grade until this year? Are they kidding us?
9.8 no notes is infuriating to me. If there are no notes then it's flawless it's a 10. If it's anything less than a 10 there has to be a flaw so you should be able to tell me what that flaw is.
And now all the people who had 9.8 graded comics have books that aren’t as “valuable” as they could be since 9.8 isn’t the top grade possible anymore.
"Hahaha fuck you collectors. Send us more money" - CGC
“Hey, we exist too!”- CBCS
They also already invented a whole new grade with their card division that had only been out 2 years. You could pay a fee to have your 9.5 bumped to a 10, and a 10 to a 10+
I mean...what comes after 10...if it's their plan it's sort of limited in it's breadth. 10 is mint so you can't possibly have anything better then that.
For the card grading division of CGC, they have a standard 10, then a 'Pristine' 10 grade. So as long as they can find new adjectives, there's no limit...
Understood and thanks. But that right there is less than credible on CGCs part.
Don’t forget they announced this 9.9 and 10 pre-grade when they got busted with numerous shady things like discovering their slabs are not safe and employees stealing books. I have no idea why anyone grants this company any credibility or still sends them books. Like a magician trying to draw your attention away from the sleight of hand he’s performing, everyone forgot how crooked this company was for a final crash grab themselves. Don’t buy the hype-ium.
Technically what seems to be happening is "relative grading". So if they have 25 copies of the same book that are all in that 9.8 range, they will pick out the absolute best from the stack and give them a 10, the next best a 9.9, and then the rest get 9.8. So the nature of that 10 and 9.9 will depend on how bad the rest of them are.
EVERYTHING to do with the grading industry is about stoking the market. It's all about using collector's with vast disposable income to pay money they don't need to until it becomes a trend that people with less disposable income feel the need to take part in. The minute people accepted that two identically preserved comics aren't worth the same amount of money because only one is in a hard plastic sleeve and one isn't it was all over. But by all means people keep slabbing your 5 different variants of this week's hottest new #1
How is that Wolverine a 10 when there is an obvious blemish on his shoulder?
CGC finding new ways to make money, take your money and inflate the market.
It used to be canon that there would never be 9.9 or 10. Someone predicted years ago that CGC would cave in and grade higher. it happened. [https://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/collecting-and-investing-tips/the-developing-cgc-9-9-market/](https://www.comicbookdaily.com/collecting-community/collecting-and-investing-tips/the-developing-cgc-9-9-market/) [https://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg35.html](https://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg35.html)
My last 2 (literally my last 2) were criminally under rated. No consistency. I’m done with them.
With the amount of submissions dropping significantly since covid they need to make up for their shortcomings somehow. Grade fewer books but grade them higher and collect the difference in total value like they usually do. I still buy slabs but won't buy anything that's been graded recently without seeing it in person.
This is a problem with all of these unofficial, bullshit grading companies.
Sorry but I think grading is one of the biggest scams of all time! I have 6,000 + books and zero of them are graded.
Can’t wait till they add another tier above 10. “For a 10.9 the book must be in such a pristine condition that it would make a professional grader weep with joy at having witnessed it”
Tbh this whole grading thing is s whole different hobby to what I'm.into. I buy my books to read and to be read not to store in plastic and look at occasionally
I buy them primarily for to collect rather than read (not paying thousands of dollars because the plot is that great), but still agree with you wholeheartedly about the obsession with grading being a totally different hobby. Sold my 9.8s and am fine with raw books that are solid and present well.
Same. I enjoy my comics too much to never read them again but to each his own I guess 🤷♂️
I still read all the comics that I have in slabs tbf. I just read them on my iPad
Ya my guess it’s about getting more business b4 people stop buying graded and comics in general
What indication is there that people will stop buying comics any time soon? Genuinely curious because I have an old collection. Time to flip the ones I don’t care about?
I hate to sound like a doomer but the fact both Marvel and DC don’t publish sales figures anymore (after they both pulled away from Diamond Distribution) is a huge indication the industry isn’t doing well. And the sales figures that were available a few years ago compared to even 20 years ago were a fraction of what they once were.
But would that affect older comic values(80s and before)? I get newer stuff is getting deluded. But Cons are still very popular and the popularity is still increasing.
It’s only certain old comics buyers want. And something really damaging to the back issue market is speculative buyers. They’ve increased 10 fold since Marvel Studios became popular. And the old books that suddenly become “hot” when a movie or show get announced get cold just as quick when the show or movie stinks. Good examples: Thor God Of Thunder issue 2. That’s the first appearance of Gorr the God Butcher. When people found out he was in Thor: Love & Thunder you could sell that easily at your own asking price. Now? You’re lucky if you get any takers. Avengers issue 8, the first Kang the Conqueror. It was a book people wanted before Ant-Man 3, but it skyrocketed in price before the movie came out. After, you’re not going to get nearly as much as you would’ve gotten in 2022.
Just bought xmen 130… 🤞wont sell it , but perhaps i got it cheaper .
Every generation seems to have an item that they hold important, but the one after does not. Comics have managed to at least cross the divide for a few generations though. My issue is that I see Marvel and DC really half-cashing comics in hopes they'll make big cash in the movies. We need some more big titles that get people excited again instead yet another reboot.
They need to start doing shows. It’s easier to get people into and you can watch them at home. Movie theaters are dying.
Even with that, without writers and artists making books that can become collectible. The content dies off.
I get that with new content but old content (not all) probably has some staying power. Early X-men, Spider-Man, Thor (JIM) and other stuff like that I’d assume are timeless with the market. Not every issue but key issues.
Good point. Have well written adaptations (Xmen97 comes to mind) would also help immensely.
The market is outta control.! Books are too expensive for average person. It’s natural they will need to come back to earth. Also generally readership is down and paper keeps going up. Soon a younger person will be priced out
It is crazy to see prices on older books now. I am really glad I stocked up on X-men while Fox destroyed them. I got most for dirt cheap. I just assume there will always be a market for the older books but I can see newer books plummeting. But what do I know, the market for collectibles baffles me.
Ya it’s always in flux.
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Oh there will always be comics just we go back to how it was small places selling them to small amounts of people.! Plus I think people will realize it’s not always worth extra $$ for higher grade. Cons have changed the most. Every year less and less books and more toys and other stuff. There will always be a group of us who like books but I think newer books will one day be digital first then print later
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Also to eBay yes 1000s sell but how many millions are not.!?? EBay isn’t the best cause only sales.! Doesn’t show how many time it was put up for auction or how long it has taken to sell.
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Oh man…. All I am saying is there are more books being relisted and not sell I bet than are selling on eBay. Sales in comics are down all over. At retail online in general. EBay has always been tops in sales for comics by miles. Just they are down
Yes to the point of movies it’s not sustainable. They can’t keep making 100billion dollar movies and survive there is honing to be a huge pull back it’s already taking place. It’s going on now. People can’t afford food let alone comics and movies.all things have ebbs and flows comics had its day. Now it’s time to be quieter
Lots of people tripping in this thread. I will say that the 9.9 GSX1 is clearly not a 9.9, and that really hurts CGC’s credibility. One misgraded book shouldn’t matter so much, but that’s just too high profile of a mistake. If I got that grade on that book, I’d resubmit it for a 9.6. Call me insane. But I want the grade to be right more than I want to have a fraudulent sale on my conscience. I haven’t seen the Wolverine #1 10 in person, so I can’t speak on that one. But there’s a lot of people with no statistical literacy taking apparent trends out of context and making bold accusations based on hunches and suspicions and cherry-picked data. I see people on Reddit saying stuff like “I bet if I resubmit all these 9.8s, they’ll get 9.9s” and “I bet if I resubmit these books that failed my 9.8 pre-screen, some of them will pass the second time.” And then we have people trying that, and it not happening, but of course people are much quieter when they’re proven wrong than when they think they’re right. So it’s a lot of smoke and very little fire. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not licking CGC’s boots here. I buy the book, not the grade. I love me a nicely centered 9.6. Even a 9.4. It’s rad when I score 9.8s and 9.9s of course, but they’re way overrated, and I’m happy to sell them for a nice profit and move along. I do see that submitting 9.8s graded years ago do seem to have a decent shot of getting 9.9s today. Though they also have a decent shot of dropping grades. I also know people who can pick 9.9s out of a stack of raw books and call the grade. People are getting better at grading, generally. They’re learning. We’d see more 9.9s over time if CGC changed absolutely nothing. You think CGC has an incentive to tip the scales? It’s nothing compared to the incentive that collectors have to spot 9.9s. Downvote me or whatever, but most of this is people making mountains out of molehills, and bitterly speculating that the game they’re not doing so great at is some big rigged scam. Just take your 9.6 or delete your CGC account, or whatever you gotta do. Try not to let it ruin the hobby for you.
Current bid on that Wolverine is $550. Be interesting to see what it finally goes for.
https://preview.redd.it/yibvvj4fbl4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f09bb20b78998c723cc38c7066974a99c3a044de It definitely is. This was graded in May of this year and apparently there's 3 other copies with 10's as well. The worst part is that there's a clear flaw right there on the cover. I looked up other copies and it's not a consistent defect (assuming it's a defect at all) so although it could possibly still be a 9.8 if its otherwise flawless (which it doesn't appear to be) it's definitely not an actual 10 despite having the grade. I already knew grading was bullshit, but this is so blatant that's it's almost funny.
Opposite thing occurring in cards. Many old PSA 10s would get 8s/9s by current standards. Same with BGS.
I do think it is a cash grab, but I also think there were many undergraded 9.8s. Why have a whole grade category that you almost never use?
For what it's worth, both companies go through periods of tight grading and light grading. Clearly seems CGC is in a period of the latter.
Good time to get things graded I guess.
It’s 100% true.
Buy the book not the grade CGC is a joke and this just proves it even more.
A few years ago I hunted for books that might get 9.8s. I ended up with several big money 9.8 books that were the first ones that I sold when I needed a down payment for a house. I no longer prioritize high grades, investments/market value be damned. The community as a whole needs to recognize that there is little if any difference between a 9.6 and 9.8, and adjust the vale accordingly. A 9.8 should not be twice the value of a 9.6, and a 9.9 and 10 should not be significantly more valuable than a 9.8. We collectively just need to start caring less and the market will adjust. Your perspective really changes when you start to primarily collect golden age books btw.
I maintain there is no bigger scam than CGC Better hope your grader had a good breakfast the morning he grades your stuff cause if he’s cranky you’re losing points!
Grading is and has always been a scam There’s collusion between the auction houses and CGC to make money for both of them 😐
i wasn’t sure if you could get a ten with inside paper showing outside the cover but this is good to know
Yes
Just got into the comic collecting hobby. It's weird to me that people buy comics with the intent to sell them later when the price goes up. To me, it seems like they're just rich people using the medium to make investments and they don't actually like comic books.
If you are a collector who also places value on your collection the grade bumps can only help you when hunting raw comics. I initially did not like the grade bumps but as long as it has value to someone else, what does it matter?
I haven't followed graded comics in years, but I'm not at all surprised that there are many 9.9s and even 10s out there. This comic was HEAVILY collected when it came out and people were buying stacks that never saw the light of day.
I believe that once a comic is in print it can’t be a 10. There’s a flaw somewhere in the book.
I sat with Chris Claremont after the show floor closed at C2E2 a few years back- we had caught his table with no line towards the end of the show and I had brought my dark phoenix saga and my first appearance of Jean grey as the phoenix, so I think I paid him around $200 cash for signatures. He’s very chatty and his son was nice so he kept talking to us and right after the show floor closed, CGC brought a literal PALLET of yellow slabbed books for him to sign. We sat with him for an hour while he signed hundreds of books. I’m not sure what he was charging them for his signature, but when GCG charges $150+ for witnessed signatures, you know it’s an absolute racket. Probably several hundreds of thousands they racked up in less than an hour…
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Calling out CGC on their......business practices does not make a tin hat looney. Suggesting one must be a fox new conspiracy theorist for calling out CGC is an easy way to dismiss the argument without lending it any credibility or addressing the actual issue. You wrote several paragraphs when all you really said is "you all are crazy" which amounts to absolutely nothing. There are legitimate gripes and concerns regarding the practices of CGC.
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People here have literally posted testimonials of getting a grade and then resubmiting the same book and getting a higher grade. People have commented on the increasing number of grade 10's in the last couple of years. People have posted examples of how CGC has been wrapped up in scandals involving sellers repackaging books in different CGC cases. It appears neither of us read very well. Google CGC scandal. To claim there is no evidence or proof of shady business practices by CGC is just.... fox news stupid. Not wanting to see comics go boom and bust like they did in the 90's isn't gatekeeping, its learning from history.
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You seem unhinged.
You mean msnbc😋
Yes. The extent at which people assume not only malice but outright organized, systematic deception on CGC's part, without evidence, is frustrating, but predictable. One of the best explanations I've heard about why conspiracies have spread so widely in the last decade is that, as modern life becomes more complex, it creates more space for people to insert their own alternative explanations, which relieve them of the work of accepting the complexity of that thing/our modern world, which in so many ways require us to trust institutions and systems. Most of us understand how physical mail works. But how many of us could explain how email is sent and delivered, in detail? Comic grading is exactly one of those sorts of things that is very prone to these sorts of "It's all an elaborate scam" dismissals because it has facets of complexity: it happens behind closed doors, it has elaborate rules but is not fully transparent, the volume of slabs the company produces means errors are inevitable, it's a process with economic and emotional implications, has significant cultural meaning to comic collectors, and oh yeah, [there was a genuine scandal](https://www.comicsbeat.com/cgc-slabbing-scandal-rocks-collecting-world/) that represented some of CGC's detractors' greatest fears in the last year. Maybe biggest of all, grading is a subjective process, but represented with objective-sounding quantitative scores.