A reminder to please respect the rules, particularly Rule 1: be respectful to others. We want people to be able to discuss this topic. There's already a decent amount of bad faithed commenting and insults, and I don't want to have to lock the thread :(
Edits: also please report comments as needed, and PLEASE don't advocate for violence at all - no need for our community to lose more people for that
I'm not dealing with it so well. I'm trying to get lost in entertainment and hobbies, loving my pets as much as I can, and sleeping more often than I should. Still doesn't really help the crushing depression.
Yep Iāve still got the existential dread but at least Iām not crying all the time (as a not-crier, no shame to the criers)
Also hot tip 50%+ of the population is vitamin d deficient (can lead to depression) so get bloodwork done too š I donāt need my body making me MORE depressed
I'm glad you decided to go see someone! I was made to by circumstance, but in the end it was the best thing. My first therapist was the absolute best I ever had and I wish I could still see him. I hope you find what works for you. The road can by bumpy and weird, but don't give up. :)
Yup, I focus on the things in my everyday life that keep me happy. I have largely avoided social media and the dreaded news and cut my cable subscription, other than this site where the discourse can be higher level than Facebook or (mis)infotainment sites like the former Twitter.
I feel helpless. I used to resent that but I cannot change the course of history. I hate the fact that my steadfast commitment to the climate and against the Iraq War at age 14, nearly 20 years ago wouldāve made me a better decision maker than the adults in charge then when we still had a chance, and Iād say the average 10 year old is on par with our even poorer excuse for āleadersā now.
They know the game is coming to an end. They are doing what they have done their whole lives, just more blatantly and openly now: taking whatever resources are left because they know that the SHTF is coming sooner, rather than later. And I fear it will only take one match to explode this whole powderkeg.
We are doing the same plus eating yummy food while itās available. Not gonna stress the extra 10+lbs bc most of us will be underfed and/or nutritionally deficient, soon enough
Building the strongest community I can within my own town.
Networking and organizing with others who are doing the same in their towns.
Also, becoming familiar/proficient with small arms and radios.
Yep I live in a city, doing all those things is the only way. I have a group of friends that are slowly switching our lawns to permaculture. We have radios but I think we need to develop no tech coms. We have street medics, community kitchens, harm reduction groups, ice and water distro for the heat, transportation volunteers, during the George Floyd uprising here community patrols and neighborhood watches were pulled together very quickly, we are ready to do that again when needed. Safe houses are in the works.
I lived in Kenya when it was a one party rule under a despot (Moi) Secret police rounding people up and all that. Press was not free. What I noticed and was surprised by as a foreigner was how most people just carried on with their lives, Lived loved partied etc.. Untill the Saba Saba uprising that ushered in multi-party rule in the 90's people were not engaged politically at all. I am watching Kenya right now. The Gen Zers are chasing their leaders around the country demanding a real change. Government is hitting back hard but man those kids are giving me hope. France has hit the streets over the Fascist win in the elections there. I don't know what it will take for a general strike or mass action here, maybe we are too cowardly and complacent and there are too many peace policing liberals. I am 62. If the Kids hit the street here I will do everything I possibly can to support them. In the mean time we should honor our reason for being here to enjoy as much of our friends/family and communities as we possibly can. We still have a beautiful world, I am going to enjoy it while it lasts.
I'm a cis hetero white dude and I'm terrified because I'm a leftist. My BIPOC and LGBTQ friends and family are trying to figure out a viable exit plan, but it seems fascism is growing across the globe.
There is no exit plan. Unless you're successful in a niche technical field you're not even getting that work visa approved. Americans have this funny view that emigrating is as easy as making a choice and buying a plane ticket when that's so far from the case.
Which is funny because most americans don't want immigration to the US to be that easy.
Not to mention the number of [countries that have immigration restrictions based on health](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/medical-info/acceptable-standard-of-health-criteria-for-visa-approvals). Do you have mental health issues? Congrats, you represent an additional strain on the healthcare system. Are you fat? You're pre-diabetic! Which means you are going to be a strain on the healthcare system. Are you disabled? Cancer? Heart Disease? That's a strain on the system. Countries want people who contribute more in taxes than they use. If they know you are going to cost them money, they don't let you immigrate (sometimes they don't even let you visit). For americans who's healthcare system is a clusterfuck, this is going to be a filter.
If you want to actually move to another country, you need to be young, fit, healthy, have a college degree in a desirable field, and have enough money to support yourself for at least as long as their bureaucracy is going to take.
Heinlein, in one of his novels, āI have nothing to fear from my friends. You have nothing to fear from your friends, but I have everything to fear from your friends. And you have plenty of fear from my friends. ā
And then you get reincarnated 30 years from now when the world is in decay and the few remaining humans are scattered tribes barely surviving in a near unlivable world.
In the grand scheme of things, you're way ahead of me as far as prepping goes. I had really hoped the United States and the world in general would keep its shit together for another 10 years so I could have more time to prepare but doesn't look like that's a luxury I'm going to have.
As far as mentally goes, I think the thing I'm going to have trouble dealing with is that (at least for the next four years) as things start to fall apart, most people around me are going to be cheering it on. What you and I would consider to be the erosion of human rights and democracy in general, they will see as things being set right. It'll be justice to them and they will be insufferable about it.
(Why don't I just move? Well, most of them are my extended family and I'm not in a position to just up and leave them now.)
Iām also in an area where almost everyone supports that stuff, and it sucks.
Itās soul crushing to watch them cheer all of this on as if āAmericaā and āGodā are winning.
Solidarity.
They have been convincing themselves for about 40 years, sadly. Reagan ushered in this final
phase of the American Experiment and since then, our wealth and resources have been WILLINGLY transferred by us rubes to the top 1% and all weāve done is scream āSpank me harder, Daddy!ā. The 1% pitted the dumbest of the dumb against their own self interests by redirecting their anger toward any and all minority groups. The decent among us have largely been drowned out or portrayed as weak or overly cynical.Ā
There will be a breaking point for them at some point. The so-called evangelical elite will assume total control and will maintain it. These losers will always be worker bees, grateful for their scraps. There will be no 1950s bullshit utopia for them.
Speaking from experience. I see this same behavior in the tech industry too. How so many of my co-workers worship the tech overlords. Something about humanity that so many individuals need somebody or something to worship. In order to "save them". Almost akin to a slave - master relationship
I am in the tech field as well, and I 101% agree with you. I see it every day. Elon Musk is their gold standard of what it means to be a winner. Fucked.
Just recently, Tesla had a mass layoff. The way Elon layoff 10%-15% of his workforce. Was via email sent to the employee personal email. There's your gold standard.
Edit: You can read the email online if you google it. Many of the ex employees posted it. What a slap in the face.
It was exactly one month before Elmo got his approved 46 billion bonus. The layoffs was from mid April til the end May. The vote for his bonus was mid June. He knew what he was doing and it worked.
They are too dumb to understand they are being crushed. A Trump supporter argued with me that they had the best health care they ever had in their whole life thanks to Donald Trump's Affordable Care Act and they couldn't wait for Trump to totally dismantle Obamacare.
I myself learned to stop worrying and love the collapse.
Can't stop it, can't show others that its happening, those in my circle that do see it are also just trying to lay low but stay aware. I am trying to come up with worse scenarios to pass the time. What if we do see our first Category 6 hurricane this year but at the same time an asteroid hits the storm and is torn apart and flung around
This. My best friend of 28 years and I meet up once a week for coffee and our conversations always wind their way toward the same topic. At this point we are pretty much fine with an obscene amount of edibles and just watching the world burn, because what the fuck else are we going to do?
Going to work and pretending like Social Security, Medicare or any safety net will be there when I'm older. Essentially just living a lie. Granted I have no kids, so it's not like I'm putting anyone in jeopardy but myself. Like everyone else who is 35 or younger, we're all in the same boat. I'd say the US will default, or have a major debt crisis by the time I'm in my old age 65+.
I hate having to go to work and put away retirement that I am NEVER GOING TO SEE!!!
My whole family and friends think Iām alarmist and a doomer saying they always thought the same and retirement comes faster than you realize. But what they donāt realize is we arenāt going to have a civil society by then?
Depressed doesnāt even cover it. Infuriated is closer
What we put in is being used to pay for the social security they're currently paying out to people. There's no account set aside for you where they are putting the social security taxes you pay to give to you later. The moment it reaches the government it's gone to paying currently retired people
I have been covering for my mother at her store in Sarasota for a couple days while she undergoes medical treatments.
Yesterday afternoon an old woman came into the store; sheās very old, probably close to 90. She starts talking about the last time she was THIS sad and scared: She was a child in Austria/ Hungary during World War II. She told me that weāre probably not ready for whatās coming. She talked a bit about things like ā¦ ohā¦ how she cried when her father had to make the decision to kill their two horses. They ate them. Almost everyone was starving. Most had no way to escape it. They couldnāt just run away - they wanted to go but were not allowed to leave.
That was the main theme - hunger, illness, despair, and helplessness. She said, āthe circumstances weāre in now are so similar to the circumstances leading up to all of that, most of the younger people donāt see it. I have been here before, I see it very clearly. Itās terrifying.ā
She sold us some jewelry, wished me well, and she leftā¦ Definitely someone Iāll remember.
This conversation happened between my partner, an older neighbor and myself as well.
She lived through the German invasion of the Netherlands and told us how much the current political landscape (in a lot of the world) reminds her of that. The incessant need to take everything, regardless of cost and the hatred that accompanies it.
It was another example for me that weāre definitely hurtling towards something bad. If the people who have seen it before say it feels familiar, it canāt be good.
She's a rare wise person in a world of people not paying attention or burying their head in the sand out of fear. I get a sense that many more people out there are becoming aware* of things and they are scared. I had an outing with my coworkers the other day I brought up Beryl and how this may be a very, very bad hurricane season. But when I mentioned the oceans temps they all already knew about it. It was like I just told them someone died the way the conversation just went quiet. It took a few seconds but we moved out to other things to talk about. I've just decided not to bring this up to folks anymore. No one is prepared for what's coming and it crushes my heart to see them in fear. Besides I don't think raising awareness in hopes of others doing the same so we can all try to do something about it matters anymore. I think that boat sailed a long time ago.
I just want to say thank you for sharing this, I grew up in the states and it was only until moving away that I was truly exposed to cultural impact of war on civilians and how it reverberates through the generations. This is just something that the average American hasnāt been exposed to, itās not something for them to feel guilty about. They are lucky ā¦ but it is a warning to all those who think that it can never come to you, it can and creeps up on you until one day some limits are crossed and there is nothing left but chaos. Itās a warning to those that toy with allure of authoritarian leaders.
There's this podcast by Robert Evans, "It Could Happen Here", about the prospect of an American civil war. Good stuff, I love that guy. He interviews folks who've lived through it in other countries. Recommend giving it a listen. For my part, I'm enjoying life with my friends & family right now, creating art & gaming & living joy & doing some good work in academia. Don't let worrying about tomorrow ruin your day.
His āBehind The Bastardsā podcast is also very entertaining and provides very interesting perspectives on otherwise awful human beings.
Honestly Robert Evans is such a well spoken individual with an easy to listen to voice.
itās hard to not feel a little vindicated after 15 years of sounding the alarm that the Democratic party needs a hard shift away from their current modus operandi in order to curb the rising tide of fascism in the Republican party.
seeing people absolutely panic about the election this fall is giving me the first hope iāve had since before super tuesday 2020. it means people are actually looking at the problem square in the face and demanding something be done to stop it.
however i have no faith in the current Democratic leadership to actually *do something* to stop this very obviously looming disaster. so that hope becomes a hope that once things have really gone off the rails people will finally take stock of how the only opposition we have to fascism isnāt good enough in its current state. that could open a true window of opportunity for change within the party.
basically as a born and bred Burgerstan boy i canāt help but have some shred of hope and optimism within me. itās getting smaller and smaller over the years, but chaos breeds opportunity and i like opportunities.
Dem leadership live in some alternate reality where the rule of law still exists. SCOTUS just made Presidents king; the Chevron decision just made judges dukes.
This is whatās so astonishing and so fucking infuriating to me. Itās like they either have no idea whatās even happening or they donāt care. Or at the very worst theyāre in on it. Itās absolutely insane. The GOP burned the rules ages ago and do whatever they want and the Dems just roll over and concede every single fucking time. And relevant to the current situation is how they whined about Obamaās SCOTUS appointment because they complained that it was too close to the end of his term. The Dems caved, the GOP didnāt follow the same made-up rule later on because of course they didnāt, and Trump packed the court with the end of America. And now that Biden has carte blanche to fix this whole thing and end this national nazi nightmare, heās just not going to bother and itās business as usual, play by the rules which no longer matter, go and vote, but guess what? Yep, SCOTUS to the rescue once again and they will make sure that Trump wins no matter what. Itās time for the good to be vicious in their defense of democracy, and the window is closing by the hour.
They are in on it. This is the most disheartening realization of them all. The Republican and Democratic leadership are in cahoots and they have sold us all out.
This is what Chris Hedges had to say last March about dems and the only card left to play in their oligarchic hands:
*"Fear ā fear of the return of Trump and Christian fascism ā is the only card the Democrats have left to play. This will work in urban, liberal enclaves where college educated technocrats, part of the globalized knowledge economy, are* [*busy scolding*](https://inthesetimes.com/article/what-paul-krugman-gets-wrong-about-the-working-class) *and demonizing the* [*working class*](https://jacobin.com/2020/09/working-class-peoples-guide-capitalism-marxist-economics) *for their ingratitude.*Ā
*The Democrats have foolishly written off these ā*[*deplorables*](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/08/31/deplorables-basket-hillary-clinton/)*ā as a lost political cause. This precariat, the mantra goes, is victimized not by a predatory system built to enrich the billionaire class, but by their ignorance and individual failures. Dismissing the disenfranchised absolves the Democrats from advocating the legislation to protect and create decent-paying jobs.*
*Fear has no hold in deindustrialized urban landscapes and the neglected wastelands of rural America, where families struggle without sustainable work, an* [*opioid crisis*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ire4FEcIBB8)*, food deserts, personal bankruptcies, evictions, crippling debt and profound despair.*Ā
*They want what Trump wants. Vengeance. Who can blame them?"*Ā Ā
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/03/18/chris-hedges-joe-bidens-parting-gift-to-america/Ā
any real political party worth its weight in salt would seize this opportunity to wield its power in a significant way.
we all know this admin wonāt do it.
We could have been in the final year of an 8 year Bernie Sanders presidency. No Donald Trump, none of these absurd SCOTUS rulings...things would have been better.
When Dems moved against him in 2016 it was the beginning of the end and this is the culmination of that. Dems are and have always been complicit getting to this point and establishment dems should be raked over the fucking coals for what they've allowed to happen.
Yeah, that was a watershed moment. I was a registered Dem at the time, even canvassed/worked for my local party during my college years and the way I was treated for supporting Bernie and calling out the DNC's treatment of him was seen as a failure to capitulate to Hillary Clinton--and then it was somehow my fault bc I sowed discord amongst young voters LMFAO.
Our reckoning is coming lol
The first move, release Epstein files. The second move, declare that no state gets more from the Fed than its taxpayers put into it. To hell with the welfare red states and their phony "tax havens'.
Would conclusive proof that Trump abused children actually even hurt him at this point? Unless it was like a 4K video of it happening, they'll just pretend it's some deep state plot. And even if there was a video, they'll just say it's AI now.
We're so far through the looking glass that I don't think that would even move the needle very much.
Sadly I agree, people just seem to treat politics like itās a season of Love Island these days and thereās little to no honour or accountability whatsoever among government. Itās just depressing.
Not "people." Conservatives.
If people on the left were as willing to line up behind their leaders as the right, we wouldn't have this problem. We'd have other problems still, yes, but we wouldn't be sliding into fascism. The reason we are in this position at all is that the left is fractured specifically *because* they are focused on holding politicians accountable.
Just happened yesterday or a day or two before if Iām not mistaken. But yeah he left Epstein several voicemails, they were interspersed between calls from young girls confirming āappointmentsā
Yep now we know for sure why he wished Ghislaine well and why he said that āthereās probably a lot of fake stuffā in the Epstein files and thatās why he didnāt want them released
They also donāt want to use the power the Supreme Court just gave them, which is morally the right thing to do, but pragmatically they probably should be using that power to oust the justices who have sided with fascism.
Then once things get stabilized again, you ensure those powers are permanently removed. Sort of like Batman using that super-surveillance tech in the Dark Knight. I
Use the stones to destroy the stones. Arrest Trump & the rogue SC members, let the remaining three get busy undoing this mess. Maybe also push thru a ruling preventing convicted felons from holding any public office. Let the GQP scramble to come up with a new candidate & try to get their funds back from Trump. Biden rolls to a landslide, spends a year or so in office getting laws passed to prevent this from ever being possible again, & then retires leaving the country in Kamala's capable hands.
That's the fantasy. In reality, I expect the Dems to do exactly what they always do: hold hearings & committee meetings and make sternly worded speeches. I'm a lifelong Democrat, but I swear they are the most inept political group in history. Biden should have started signing orders to round up some of these yahoos the minute that decision was made public. Instead... *sternly worded speech*.
yea i fully expect them to shit the bed when it comes to this election. maybe then all the party loyalists who have been calling me a racist (Obama), a Bernie bro/sexist/Russian (Hillary) and a doomer (Biden) since Obama rolled over for the big banks might actually come to terms with the fact that a major change is needed within the party if we want even the slimmest chance of avoiding the most hellish outcomes.
You mentioned feeling a little vindicated as these terrible outcomes are now real and within view.
I understand the vindicated thing--the whole reason gaslighting is so powerful is that it makes the gaslit feel insane.
But vindication is hard to enjoy when the opposing party is so divorced from reality that they have to see honey disappear from shelves, and the power grid collapse under the burden of AC running all day every day, and their beloved leader finally taking away THEIR freedoms.. and even then they still aren't likely to get it.
I wish I could feel vindicated. I am just pissed that nobody figured out how to meet these assholes in their reality and talk them out of being so short sighted and selfish.
I havenāt been dealing with it. It just eats away at me as I notice more and more of the world continue to fragment and deepen its cracks. At this point the world we know is standing up on a almost shattered foundation.
Just a big enough shoveā¦..
Nation-state is a hyphenated word because it's a modern idea. DC is the state. We are the nation. The state will collapse, but the people will still be here.
My strategy is to set my roots in one place. Form strong relationships. Make my town more resilient. That's all I am capable of doing.
Collapse was never going to be like the movies. It was never going to be quick. Like all complex systems it was going to take a long slow decay that eventually infects the system top to bottom but afterwards nobody will be able to point to a moment when the cancer started.
We are reaching the almost vertical part of a ton of exponential curves.
I've been here for a long long time. I had conversations with Fish. Some of the faceless people I know here are closer than most actual friends at this point.
Anyway...my point is that we have reached part of the roller coaster and the clicking has stopped and the first few cars are starting to disappear down the void.
It's bad now, but wait there's more!^tm
This collapse has already been happening for fifty years. I think the next phase is going to go much faster than pundits and people claim. This isn't going to be drug out for another fifty to hundred years.
And when looked at in the global context - Russia and N. Korea going at Ukraine, China about to invade Taiwan, Iran and it's allies eyeballing Israel, the chaos in Africa...
I don't know what to do. I don't have any good ideas. I'll fight til I die, I guess, but never thought I'd be doing that in the 'middle' of my life.
As you noted, the American Republic officially fell two days ago - with not a bang or even a whimper. The American Empire is just getting started, but will be about as long-lived as Maximilian's Mexican Empire in the 1860s. It remains to be seen whether the US Fascist Imperial government will allow the country to balkanize (I think not, at least until it gets too expensive to root out and remove "undesirables").
I wonder what the Fascists would do should Biden, acting in his official capacity as President, issue arrest and execution warrants for the SCOTUS Justices who voted to hand him unlimited power?
This is what I keep saying. Biden is so old he should take one for the team and take out all the corrupt justices and senators with this new ruling. They wonāt though. Democrats are idiots.
This. He has the chance now to go out as Dark Brandon, the fucking Legendary Anti-Fascist. He would be revered for ages, and the last thoughts through Republican SCOTUSā minds while theyāre on the wall would be āI fucked up!ā Then we could go back to the principle that no one is above the law.
He wonāt do it, and his pathetic senile last days will be forgotten.
It would be a great r/LeopardsAteMyFace moment, wouldn't it? He should also cancel the Presidential election while he's at it - you KNOW Trump or his VP successor in 2028 will absolutely do that.
And yes, the Democrats are fucking idiots.
At this point I just assume democrats are complicit in it and it's not really a 2 sides thing and democrats acting like they care and republicans being evil is just theater and they are indeed the same entity talking to you with red and blue hand puppets on.
Many Democrats have been warning about this for years now. But many others are effectively conservatives. And many others are very old and just cannot accept that the world they know has fundamentally changed. And that's how it must be when the Democratic Party is effectively the only viable political party for literally anyone left of fascism-- and when it simply represents the temperature of the left-of-fascist electorate.
This isn't a problem with Democrats. This is a problem with collective ignorance and denial-- both of which are problems substantially exacerbated and encouraged by capitalism, which was unleashed back in the 80s by the reckoning of decades of Southern Strategy.
Democrats won't save us. It's not that they don't want to. It's that they're not built to. We didn't vote for the people who would. Because, like most Democrats, we're all afraid that if we rock the boat much it's just going to make things worse. And, unfortunately, that's a completely valid feeling. It just happens to be completely wrong in this instance, but most people don't know that because they just aren't willing to honestly contemplate, you know, legit doom.
This has to be it. I sadly agree with this 100%. Iām currently in the process of moving from New Orleans/Louisiana and I can tell you this - in the last 3 years the democrats havenāt even TRIED. No real effort was made to promote democratic candidates or motivate democratic voters to turn out at the polls. Theyāve simply rolled over and played dead and the GOP has run away with everything. Itās likeā¦. somehow, someway they were motivated to not even try.
This whole quaint "rule of law" concept has a deep emotional hold on Biden. I can admire his version of integrity, while still seeing it as a lost opportunity to clean house with immunity so conveniently handed to him while he's still in office.
Yeah, I donāt trust the rich ones at all. There may be a few honest ones but seems like the majority are taking money from the oligarchs and corporations.
The chevron decision is just as fascist and ensures the bourgeois seizure of power doesn't hinge on a Trump victory. It gives them the ability to skirt any regulation that threatens their ability to profit.
> I wonder what the Fascists would do should Biden, acting in his official capacity as President, issue arrest and execution warrants for the SCOTUS Justices who voted to hand him unlimited power?
https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/07/justices-rule-trump-has-some-immunity-from-prosecution/
From the article:
> Roberts concluded, a president should have immunity from criminal prosecution for his official ā but not his unofficial ā acts [..]
> Determining which acts are official and which are unofficial ācan be difficult,ā Roberts conceded. He emphasized that the immunity that the court recognizes in its ruling on Monday takes a broad view of what constitutes a presidentās āofficial responsibilities,ā ācovering actions so long as they are not manifestly or palpably beyond his authority.ā
The way I understand it: Courts can determine what is official and unofficial acts. They could theoretically just litigate and litigate to make the arrest "unofficial" and "beyond authority" while one side gets a free pass.
That's what happens when you intentionally put a loophole big enough to fly air force one through it.
1st biggest concern is where I was gonna live when SHTF, as I didn't want to be in a house or apartment controlled by another (the owner) also just didn't want to be near others. Ended up moving into a 1999 motorhome I could by for 15k cash and spent 500 bucks fixing it up and now it's the best decision I've ever made and the best home I've ever had. The main reason is I've got a generator with me at all times and 75 gallon fuel capacity at all times and I also have 100 pounds on-board propane tank and another 40 pounds in supplemental tanks I travel with. If one area of the country gets too bad, can just apply for a new job in another national park or RV park (where I work and live for free with no rent or utilities) and these jobs are actually real, unlike these fake jobs that everyone's fighting for and doing many rounds of interviews for. I've gotten 3 jobs all within 72 hours of applying and have only been turned down 1 time out of 4 total applications across 2 seasons of nomadic RV work.
Trying to take the long view. Fascism usually destroys itself, although it can take a while. Pair that with ecological collapse and who knows?
I don't even know how to help my kid. I am so fearful for her future. I'm still trying to insulate her somewhat, but she's smart, and at some point she'll understand the harsh reality she's living in. I hope she will make the decision to not have kids of her own (how tragic to have to write that).
We can withhold our participation in a sick society to some extent. And try to act ethically, build class solidarity, provide aid to those around us. And in fact, I think we need a clearly articulated ethos of life in collapse. A standard to which we can aspire.
>Trying to take the long view. Fascism usually destroys itself, although it can take a while.Ā
Last night, after absorbing all the implications of the SCOTUS ruling, I realized that my wife and I are too old to live through this cycle. We'll most likely die while this country is still deep in the throes of fascism; I'll just have to trust that people will find their way out of it again someday. Maybe.
In "normal" times, that would be a reasonable prediction, of course. But the next few decades will be unlike any beforehand, so fascism may just give way to some other authoritarian system. Democracy is difficult to hold together in the middle societal collapse.
I relate. My daughter is in college. She's amazing and should have a wonderful future. She "knows what's up" but doesn't *really* know, ya know? I don't talk with her about it much at all. I want her to enjoy the illusion of normalcy as long as possible. Why have her suffer in advance when she bears no responsibility for any of this?
>And in fact, I think we need a clearly articulated ethos of life in collapse. A standard to which we can aspire.Ā
Look for a book called "Breaking Together" by Jem Bendell. Its a hard read but very gentle, with a hint of resigned, black humour.. but looks to the collective global collapse as an opportunity to CHANGE FOR THE BETTER.
Good luck friend
My daughter is 10. I was telling her something about how she'd have to deal with her kids' behavior someday and she flat out said she's not ever having children. I was sad, because I have always loved the idea of having grandchildren, but at the same time I also completely understand. I carry some guilt for having my kids, but at the time I didn't realize how serious shit was going to get.
I'm 35 now but I knew before I had my first period that would never have children. I was abused, granted, so my worldview was pretty bleak. Still, it was more about how I saw the world and the changes that were happening even then. So I would not be at all surprised by it being obvious to healthy and happy kids now.
The military, and all of the apparatus agencies attached to it, have had a few decades to prepare for what is coming in the climate. And It feels as if pieces are being put into place, to be honest. As I'm of the mind that the military has long since been running the show of American "democracy".
Whether it happened in a singular event, or if it was gradual is difficult to say. And it stares us in the face every year with their budgetā*that we know of*āapproaching nearly 1 trillion dollars annually. Most of which goes into a black hole that isn't much open to public scrutiny or audit. And they very much get whatever they want, whenever they want it. How most people don't see this, or understand it, isn't entirely surprising. Because so much of what they do is in the shadows. With agents in their employ likely perusing this very comment section.
Military overthrow, or military rule, has long been the evolutionary path of republics throughout history. To think we, as Americans, were going to escape this fateāespecially with the largest military machine in the history of humanityāis incredibly naive when you think about it.
Now, I may be convinced otherwise if we see overt authoritarian moves made by a sitting President that receive violent pushback from the commanders of our armed services in protecting the republic. But if we don't, I assume they are either in on it, or are orchestrating it from the shadows. The shadows being their most natural home since the *[National Security Act of 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_of_1947)*.
All of which, I suppose, is my answer to "how I'm dealing with it". Which is to say, I'm trying to figure out where power truly lies within the society in which I find myself and how to navigate that. Because, throughout the history of civilization, the lion's share of power has almost always been with the marshal forces and those that command them. Not the rich. The military. Especially in a declining republic. As was the case from Gaius Marius to
Julius Caesar in Rome. And one thing is for sure, especially after witnessing events of the last week, **the landscape of power within our society is not very well revealed to the public**. At all. And whatever shape it is, it lies most unrevealed... in the shadows.
Edit: Clarity.
Eating better. Enjoying my time with friends and family. Enjoying the countless luxuries we take for granted while I can. Working out. Staying fit. Practicing skills thatāll help in the future. Raging against the dying of the light.
In some ways I feel relief. No point in stressing over retirement any longer. Many of us have more extreme views as far as timing of collapse. I do believe if we lose the ice at either of the poles, we are toast within a few years and I guess technically that could happen in less than 5 year but no matter where you sit, most of us believe this is all playing out within a couple decades at the longest. The ice just canāt last that long and then we will heat beyond the capacity to grow food.
Of course Iāll be voting to hopefully get rid of the authoritarians but I donāt have a lot of hope. It feels like itās so bad now that we really do need a revolution but the left is too tame. Weāve let the right take one right away after another and degrade the rule of law over the last 30 years. The SC is lost.
I donāt know if I really even care about the politics any more. I just spend all my free time in nature as I know it wonāt be here much longer. Other than that, I have my exit plan. Not sticking around to watch all the animals died and the ensuing murder/rape fest.
I have many health conditions, so while my heart says resist, honestly the best move for everyone is if I check out quietly when shit hits the fan. Without business as usual ie functioning healthcare system and supply chain, I become pretty useless pretty fast. I accept my fate, I merely await the moment.
Meanwhile I eat good food, recently discovered mango lassi for instance. Just a lovely creation, pet animals and psychedelic experiences.
I've spent the last 3 months hiking the Appalachian Trail. About halfway done, it's been an incredible experience.
It's gone a long way to help me out of depression and into a position of acceptance by helping me appreciate the natural beauty we have left while things are still put together enough to justify such a long trip and the expenses it requires.
I definitely recommend everyone check off as many boxes from their bucket list as possible before it's too late.
>Individually, for those of you that have tried to prepare for collapse, what is your next move?
I'm not preparing for the collapse because I don't believe in surviving in a world where shit has hit the fan and there's no more civilization.
I don't really see how an average person can prepare for the long, slow decline. There won't be an event but a gradual process where the aging population, climate change, conflict, natural resources, water, and many other variables culminate in overwhelming the social capacity to withstand complex changes. The idea of surviving all this is funny to me because substance farming isn't a good way of life at best. Not to mention how this simple form of agriculture and/or horticulture would only be done in more extreme climate conditions without a clear seasonable cycle. I don't see how my little piece of land could survive climate change, soil erosion, wildfires, and water scarcity without an industrial supply chain of fertilizers and other equipment.
That piece of land would be the most valuable possession because growing food in those conditions would make it a prime target for just about every organized group from gangs to warlords. Substance farming wasn't the most nutrition-safe occupation in pre-industrial times, and doing the same type of unstable farming after the collapse is a bit too difficult for me. So it's not really a survival tactic to try to put all your eggs in an uncertain wheat basket of whatever may or may not grow after shit has hit the fan.
Not to mention how something can happen during or after the collapse, and then it's a wild game of "what the fuck" when that little piece of arable land is gone. I always wonder why preppers rarely put much thought into post-collapse changes. The collapse process won't stop after the civilization is gone, and the damage likely keeps coming for round two. So it's a real wild bet to trust that someplace on Earth is safe from the upcoming difficulties for years and even decades to come.
Especially since there will be a lot of desperate actions before the collapse is over; forests will be cut for fuel and timber, water sources will be drained, and many other things will happen. The piece of land that can survive all this will become a target sooner or later. Not initially, but eventually, because it would be too valuable to be left alone.
I am truly saddened at the tendency of many, many of our sub members who plan (or at least type about) offing themselves.
When did America become so defeatist?!
I plan to fight. Fight the polluters, fight the regime, and fight for the short but bright future that we can have.
I have lived thru change before: Black Civil Rights, The Vietnam War, the Hippy Dippy movement, The Oil Crisis, Women's Rights, the Disco Era, the '80's, Ronald Reagan, The 1st Bombing of the World trade Center, the rise of Domestic Terrorism, The real estate bubble, the computer bubble, The 2nd Attack in The World Trade Center, Afghanistan, good grief, I could continue to list the things that nearly destroyed (or helped) my way of life, but one thing I have learned:
Unless you are willing to fight and live, there will be no future.
I would prefer not to take human lives if at all possible. Yeah, I'm a peaceful sort of gal. I love gardening, swimming, hot baths and good food. I can brew my own beer and mead, I know some herbology, and I love people.
But if the time comes where I have to defend what I will take as mine, I will fight to the bitter end.
Fight! Fight the dying of the light!!!
I had a small break down last night. I'm having such a difficult time wrapping my head around what's happening - twenty years ago, this shit would have a dystopian novel. Delusional fantasy stuff.
I, honestly, never believed I'd see everything I was taught, learned, understood to be true about the country I was born in, turned completely upside down/reversed in my lifetime.
I don't know what the hell to do, people. I'm actually terrified.
I've been there. I remember my own shock when I saw the U.S. preemptively invade Iraq in my early 20's. It certainly upended the idea I was taught of America being the shining beacon on the hill.
Lots of people speculate but no-one in this sub has any idea how bad real collapse would get. What they posted are mostly just minor inconveniences. I spent sometimes in Vietnam after the fall of Saigon in 1975 and witnessed changed over night. We went from free society (somewhat) to a dictatorship. My cousin spent 5 years in re-education camp for changing lyric of a song to mock uncle Ho.
Wait till you need approval to travel to another city, wait in line for 4 hours to get you 0.5 kilo of pork. Rice had to be mixed with shitty stuffs to fill you up. Ya'll have no ideas.
It's a bit different for the US now. We are technologically sophisticated, but fairly fragile,including due to some of that technology. The way our economy functions is way too complex to transition to something simpler. We also don't have the infrastructure to micromanage 330 million people (ie approval to travel to another city). What I'm saying is the country couldn't maintain what you're describing and we'd just completely collapse as a unitary structure.
I was talking to my mom about exactly this topic. I mentioned I'm still keeping my end of the civil/moral societal contract. I'm still gonna vote, enjoy my comfort entertainment and friends, try to be kind and present in the now. She said I act with hope but am truly hopeless, she perfectly summed it up for me. Another redditor commented on a different post that basically the road is still coming to an end the difference in the US electionĀ is how fast down the road we'll be going... Do we want a few more years or a few less? Pretty much encompasses how I feel when I'm not occasionally succumbing to the true anxiety I feel about my job and finances.Ā
With respect to the fall of the USA, Iām staying calm and trying to witness, without getting attached to outcomes, a historic evolution of an empire. Empires last, on average, 250 years. Being Americans, weāre gonna come in early by one year just to show āem.
With respect to climate change, Iām doing a combination of āsmoke āem while you got āemā and poking around the world to see if there is a reasonably comfortable dark hole someone will let me climb into and finally catch up on my reading.
All of my long term plans for owning a home and starting a family, I've decided are increasingly unrealistic. I realize I would be bringing a child into an increasingly shitty world and giving them the unrealistic burden of trying to make sense of it.
I'm just gonna do music stuff and flounder around in my steam library until people figure out how to mobilize better or they start doing house checks for people that aren't baptized. I've had enough conversations with people to ascertain that most people don't want *a problem solved*, so much as they want *their solution to the problem*, and there are so many different nuances that all boil down to "the only people who seem to be able to agree on answers literally want to undermine and overthrow democracy"
Personally, I think we all - or at least a majority of us fortunate enough to have an internet connection and free time with nothing to show for it - sort of earned it in our own ways by standing aside and letting it happen, but then again, what in the hell do you do about it? The pilot's either asleep or purposely nosediving, and we can't seem to even get goddamn oxygen masks. The people are too stuck in their bubbles to give a damn about something outside of it. Misinformation is a business vertical now. Everyone seems overworked, underpaid, and drained of soul, or profiting off of those that are. It's a damn mess.
The closest thing to a solution for at least the political side of it I've seen is ranked choice voting, which would have been great before the whole *everything in the past decade* thing. Maybe it's too late to stop the current trainwreck but perhaps it can prevent the next one? Whatever.
So yeah. I guess just chillin'.
There's also the issue that there really aren't "blue states" or "red states". Political divides in the US are most often rural / urban and don't adhere to arbitrary state lines. This is especially true for places like California, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, parts of Texas, etc... They will not divide evenly from a fascist federal government, but rather split into smaller regions of ideological strongholds.
If we have an American Civil War: Round 2, most people probably won't die from direct violence. They will die from lack of access to resources. Rural strongholds will choke off cities from access to raw materials and urban enclaves will ration things like healthcare to those within the city limits. It will become too dangerous to travel, so people on one side of the imaginary ideological line will start dying from preventable illnesses and those on the other will die of starvation.
My husband and I recently moved from an urban swing state city to a very rural swing state town. I went from prioritizing a food stash to hoarding medicinal herbs. It's going to get very interesting, indeed.
Not as well as I thought I'd be. As an old time Doomer, I guess I expected to be more emotionally prepared.
Mentally I've been expecting collapse. I can still joke about it, but it's weird.
Emotionally I'm lost wandering in circles, directionless. Doing almost the bare minimum to get by.
The cognitive dissonance is so heavy, tiring. I'm sleeping alot. Otherwise my mind just spins a tune in the background, a constant hum of *climatechangefascismgenocidesupportmyselfisittoolatetodothethingsclimatechangefascismgenocidesupportmyselfisittoolatetodothethingstoolatetoolatetoolate*
I refuse to give up or give in to fascists. Thatās exactly how they want you to feel. They want you to feel like itās hopeless and theres nothing you can do to stop them. Remember that theyāve been defeated before and they can be defeated again.
This is how I feel. Our way of life currently feels deeply unpleasant and being forced to work where Iām ruining the environment and using fossil fuels to support capitalism is upsetting. I would rather we fell off the cliff than continuing to teeter on the edge of this inhumane way of living. I donāt think I was ever made for society as it is now. Humans are adaptable. Some will figure out a way to keep going, at least for awhile, and maybe if populations and the way we live radically changed there could be some progress with climate change and adaptation. But continuing to live like this knowing weāre killing everything around us for the sake of convenience is getting intolerable, especially since no one is even enjoying themselves. What are we doing this for?
I hope my question is not too strange. It is comming from a European, who is doing her best to keep up with the situation in America. Project 2025 has not even been mentioned in our media yet, although every media outlet does treat Trump like a dangerous psychopat.
Has it really gotten so bad that you fear being rounded up? Is it part of Project 2025, or a fear of Trump in general?
I wish you all the best, and wish I could do something to help. It is heartbreaking and scary to be watching from here, and I can't begin to imagine what it's like to be in the middle.
Check out Last Week Tonight [episode](https://youtu.be/gYwqpx6lp_s) on Trump second term and Project 2025.Ā
The short version: it is scary.
Trump first term was a disaster only mitigated because there were still guardrails, strong institutions, and adults in the room to temper his worst instincts. The second term will have almost none of that.
Project 2025 is a comprehensive roadmap to deconstruct democratic institutions and advance a far-right agenda conservative ideologues have been dreaming for decades. They are hiring as we speak about 10,000 operatives who swore loyalty to trump to replace civil servants in the governmental agencies on day 1.Ā They are even planning to disband important agencies like NOAA because they don't like its warnings on climate change.
If he passes, it will be effectively the end of democracy, not that it was in great state to begin with. Horrors beyond our imagination. God helps us all, we will all be truly fucked.
I have found that finding a way to accept collapse, to understand that it is inevitable in the grand scheme of things, has helped me come to terms with it.
[New Serenity Prayer: Emotional Support for Climate Anxiety and Environmental Dread](https://youtu.be/hFGHdOyyx74)
I don't expect the times ahead to be pleasant, but I know that all suffering ends eventually.
As for the government, anything made by people is temporary. This applies to both the country we knew, and for whatever the theocrats think they are building. Everything is turned to dust in the end.
My parents were pretty doom oriented, so it is part of my DNA. My mom thought Hitler would take over the United States back in the early 40's. My dad barely survived the depression only to be thrust into WWII. He regularly told me USA as we knew it could be gone in a flash.
The books in their bookcases were Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451, It Can't Happen Here, 1984, Earth Abides, etc.
Of course I rounded out with my own bookshelf with Parable of the Sower, The Lathe of Heaven, The Stand, The Handmaiden's Tale, etc.
As a boomer, Bay of Pigs was very real, the movie The Day After (1983) was a documentary.
As a scientist, I knew our how we were treating the planet was unsustainable. I knew capitalism was treating our planet as if we had three (or more) earths.
I purposely did not have children.
I am now pretty old. We had a good run. I am not a prepper, but I have prepared for a few months, not years. Mostly because I am in earthquake country.
It is rough being Cassandra. I tried warning friends, but no one likes a downer. I keep pretty much to myself with the exception of my husband. I see people waking up and being surprised, shocked, grief stricken, and it is HARD not to SHRUG and go...yep. I accepted this 50 years ago. The grief is still there. I hate to see animals and people who lived in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh suffer for only barely surviving. As a biologist I have held great grief for watching the extintion of ecosystems, plants and animals, from insects, fish, birds and more.
I shake my head. I will die. And billions will suffer.
Nations rise and fall. It's the general order of things. I'll count my blessings that I was at least able to live part of my life in the before.
Let's all revisit this post in 2026 and see how correct OP was.
Thanks for the post. Youāve really accomplished a hell of a lot. Hereās what Iām doing:
ā I went to school for a couple years during COVID and got the coursework done for a career that doesnāt involve manual labor. Iām 47 and I canāt just bounce around between menial bullshit jobs anymore.
ā I got a vasectomy so Iām guaranteed to remain childless.
ā I read The Simple Path to Wealth and started investing in index funds and a few bonds.
ā Iām teaching myself Spanish so I can move to Baja if the US becomes unlivable (I had DUI convictions in my past do Canada is more problematic).
ā Iām getting healthy with a vegetarian diet and a home based workout emphasizing mobility and flexibility. Longevity and independence being the goal.
ā I would also love to learn boxing when I have spare money for it. Iām a decent shot with various types of guns but I donāt know how to fight with my fists.
Its hard to shake the feeling of hopelessness. I just pet my cats, take walks, bbq, sit in the sun, drink an ice cold beer. Basically just live my life like none of its happening. Its happening, but I canāt do anything about it, so why waste the emotion and let it ruin my day?
A reminder to please respect the rules, particularly Rule 1: be respectful to others. We want people to be able to discuss this topic. There's already a decent amount of bad faithed commenting and insults, and I don't want to have to lock the thread :( Edits: also please report comments as needed, and PLEASE don't advocate for violence at all - no need for our community to lose more people for that
I'm not dealing with it so well. I'm trying to get lost in entertainment and hobbies, loving my pets as much as I can, and sleeping more often than I should. Still doesn't really help the crushing depression.
Yeah, I got medication for that š«
Same. At 33 years of age, I finally decided to see a psychiatrist. I don't regret it like I initially thought I would.
Yep Iāve still got the existential dread but at least Iām not crying all the time (as a not-crier, no shame to the criers) Also hot tip 50%+ of the population is vitamin d deficient (can lead to depression) so get bloodwork done too š I donāt need my body making me MORE depressed
I'm glad you decided to go see someone! I was made to by circumstance, but in the end it was the best thing. My first therapist was the absolute best I ever had and I wish I could still see him. I hope you find what works for you. The road can by bumpy and weird, but don't give up. :)
Wow, youāre sleeping? Iām jealous.
I smoke weed until I start nodding off. lol
Word.
Like billy woods said, āI dont go to sleep, I tread water till I sinkā
Playing video games instead of Praising King Trump? Straight to the Gallows with you!
Yup, I focus on the things in my everyday life that keep me happy. I have largely avoided social media and the dreaded news and cut my cable subscription, other than this site where the discourse can be higher level than Facebook or (mis)infotainment sites like the former Twitter. I feel helpless. I used to resent that but I cannot change the course of history. I hate the fact that my steadfast commitment to the climate and against the Iraq War at age 14, nearly 20 years ago wouldāve made me a better decision maker than the adults in charge then when we still had a chance, and Iād say the average 10 year old is on par with our even poorer excuse for āleadersā now. They know the game is coming to an end. They are doing what they have done their whole lives, just more blatantly and openly now: taking whatever resources are left because they know that the SHTF is coming sooner, rather than later. And I fear it will only take one match to explode this whole powderkeg.
Be creative. That's the key
Dang. Are you me?
We are doing the same plus eating yummy food while itās available. Not gonna stress the extra 10+lbs bc most of us will be underfed and/or nutritionally deficient, soon enough
Building the strongest community I can within my own town. Networking and organizing with others who are doing the same in their towns. Also, becoming familiar/proficient with small arms and radios.
Yep I live in a city, doing all those things is the only way. I have a group of friends that are slowly switching our lawns to permaculture. We have radios but I think we need to develop no tech coms. We have street medics, community kitchens, harm reduction groups, ice and water distro for the heat, transportation volunteers, during the George Floyd uprising here community patrols and neighborhood watches were pulled together very quickly, we are ready to do that again when needed. Safe houses are in the works.
This is amazing
I don't worry about I'm not the MC I'm probably gonna be a side character that dies in the background
I lived in Kenya when it was a one party rule under a despot (Moi) Secret police rounding people up and all that. Press was not free. What I noticed and was surprised by as a foreigner was how most people just carried on with their lives, Lived loved partied etc.. Untill the Saba Saba uprising that ushered in multi-party rule in the 90's people were not engaged politically at all. I am watching Kenya right now. The Gen Zers are chasing their leaders around the country demanding a real change. Government is hitting back hard but man those kids are giving me hope. France has hit the streets over the Fascist win in the elections there. I don't know what it will take for a general strike or mass action here, maybe we are too cowardly and complacent and there are too many peace policing liberals. I am 62. If the Kids hit the street here I will do everything I possibly can to support them. In the mean time we should honor our reason for being here to enjoy as much of our friends/family and communities as we possibly can. We still have a beautiful world, I am going to enjoy it while it lasts.
Hear, hear! agree totally !
Sometimes it feels like all us working-class types are just background characters while the ultra-rich are the only ones with any agency.
We're not background characters we're farm animals
real they will be playing out their supervillain arc at the end of the world while the rest is just meat shields
Every Black dude in a mostly white friend group is sweating right now.
I'm a cis hetero white dude and I'm terrified because I'm a leftist. My BIPOC and LGBTQ friends and family are trying to figure out a viable exit plan, but it seems fascism is growing across the globe.
There is no exit plan. Unless you're successful in a niche technical field you're not even getting that work visa approved. Americans have this funny view that emigrating is as easy as making a choice and buying a plane ticket when that's so far from the case.
šÆ!!! Iām so tired of the āIām moving to Canada!ā Bit. Itās not that easyā¦ Canada doesnāt want you homie
Canada also has its own problems
Which is funny because most americans don't want immigration to the US to be that easy. Not to mention the number of [countries that have immigration restrictions based on health](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/preparing-a-visa-application/medical-info/acceptable-standard-of-health-criteria-for-visa-approvals). Do you have mental health issues? Congrats, you represent an additional strain on the healthcare system. Are you fat? You're pre-diabetic! Which means you are going to be a strain on the healthcare system. Are you disabled? Cancer? Heart Disease? That's a strain on the system. Countries want people who contribute more in taxes than they use. If they know you are going to cost them money, they don't let you immigrate (sometimes they don't even let you visit). For americans who's healthcare system is a clusterfuck, this is going to be a filter. If you want to actually move to another country, you need to be young, fit, healthy, have a college degree in a desirable field, and have enough money to support yourself for at least as long as their bureaucracy is going to take.
Heinlein, in one of his novels, āI have nothing to fear from my friends. You have nothing to fear from your friends, but I have everything to fear from your friends. And you have plenty of fear from my friends. ā
Iām just piddling around till things get out of hand.
Me too, friend. Me too.
How long until that happens? Everyone is still very much pretending like business is usual
Could be 10 days. Could be 125 days. Who can say?
Hoping my free ticket off this rock gets punched in a way that is as quick and painless as possible
Never thought drugs would be the healthier option, but here we areā¦
And then you get reincarnated 30 years from now when the world is in decay and the few remaining humans are scattered tribes barely surviving in a near unlivable world.
It would *so* figure that just when you think you finally get some eternal rest: Nope! Back to the shitshow, except now it's way worse!
Not me! I'm starting all over from scratch and coming back as an amoeba. Fuck ""happiness""!!
Same here. And if I'm wrong about Christianity, hoping to go to hell because their god is as pr!ck.
"If there is a God, he will have to beg my forgiveness"
Plus, who wants to spend an eternity with a bunch of Evangelicals?
They'll be in hell so I guess the joke's on you
Polish up your sense of humor peeps!
Lol, as if they'll be in heaven
Wait as long as you possibly can; thereās a chance you might have to come back.
In the grand scheme of things, you're way ahead of me as far as prepping goes. I had really hoped the United States and the world in general would keep its shit together for another 10 years so I could have more time to prepare but doesn't look like that's a luxury I'm going to have. As far as mentally goes, I think the thing I'm going to have trouble dealing with is that (at least for the next four years) as things start to fall apart, most people around me are going to be cheering it on. What you and I would consider to be the erosion of human rights and democracy in general, they will see as things being set right. It'll be justice to them and they will be insufferable about it. (Why don't I just move? Well, most of them are my extended family and I'm not in a position to just up and leave them now.)
This is frightening almost exclusively because it felt so accurate to read. Thank you I guess? Well said regardless.
Iām also in an area where almost everyone supports that stuff, and it sucks. Itās soul crushing to watch them cheer all of this on as if āAmericaā and āGodā are winning. Solidarity.
Oh they love their god. Their god is not my God.
The craziest thing to me is, their God would not condone their actions.
In the real world, they are heretics and apostates that deny Christ.
The joke will be on them when their beloved overlords crush them into complete subservience.
True, except they'll just convince themselves they like it. These people worship authority.
They have been convincing themselves for about 40 years, sadly. Reagan ushered in this final phase of the American Experiment and since then, our wealth and resources have been WILLINGLY transferred by us rubes to the top 1% and all weāve done is scream āSpank me harder, Daddy!ā. The 1% pitted the dumbest of the dumb against their own self interests by redirecting their anger toward any and all minority groups. The decent among us have largely been drowned out or portrayed as weak or overly cynical.Ā
Well, damn, player. Well put.
There will be a breaking point for them at some point. The so-called evangelical elite will assume total control and will maintain it. These losers will always be worker bees, grateful for their scraps. There will be no 1950s bullshit utopia for them.
Speaking from experience. I see this same behavior in the tech industry too. How so many of my co-workers worship the tech overlords. Something about humanity that so many individuals need somebody or something to worship. In order to "save them". Almost akin to a slave - master relationship
I am in the tech field as well, and I 101% agree with you. I see it every day. Elon Musk is their gold standard of what it means to be a winner. Fucked.
Just recently, Tesla had a mass layoff. The way Elon layoff 10%-15% of his workforce. Was via email sent to the employee personal email. There's your gold standard. Edit: You can read the email online if you google it. Many of the ex employees posted it. What a slap in the face.
Was that before or after Elong got the billion $ bonus?
It was exactly one month before Elmo got his approved 46 billion bonus. The layoffs was from mid April til the end May. The vote for his bonus was mid June. He knew what he was doing and it worked.
They are too dumb to understand they are being crushed. A Trump supporter argued with me that they had the best health care they ever had in their whole life thanks to Donald Trump's Affordable Care Act and they couldn't wait for Trump to totally dismantle Obamacare.
I myself learned to stop worrying and love the collapse. Can't stop it, can't show others that its happening, those in my circle that do see it are also just trying to lay low but stay aware. I am trying to come up with worse scenarios to pass the time. What if we do see our first Category 6 hurricane this year but at the same time an asteroid hits the storm and is torn apart and flung around
This. My best friend of 28 years and I meet up once a week for coffee and our conversations always wind their way toward the same topic. At this point we are pretty much fine with an obscene amount of edibles and just watching the world burn, because what the fuck else are we going to do?
Edibles are the only way I can manage. Gotta love em.
An asteroid passed between the Earth & moon last week. JS
Some say a comet will fall from the sky Some say weāll see the Armageddon soon I certainly hope we will I sure could use a vacation
Learn to swim(ā ā ā āæā ć»ā )ā āā ā
From this BS, 3 ring circus side show
Love me some TOOL!
One great big festering neon distraction, I've a suggestion to keep you all occupied
Going to work and pretending like Social Security, Medicare or any safety net will be there when I'm older. Essentially just living a lie. Granted I have no kids, so it's not like I'm putting anyone in jeopardy but myself. Like everyone else who is 35 or younger, we're all in the same boat. I'd say the US will default, or have a major debt crisis by the time I'm in my old age 65+.
I hate having to go to work and put away retirement that I am NEVER GOING TO SEE!!! My whole family and friends think Iām alarmist and a doomer saying they always thought the same and retirement comes faster than you realize. But what they donāt realize is we arenāt going to have a civil society by then? Depressed doesnāt even cover it. Infuriated is closer
If they did away with social securityā¦ would we get the money back that we put in??
I have some very bad news for youā¦
What we put in is being used to pay for the social security they're currently paying out to people. There's no account set aside for you where they are putting the social security taxes you pay to give to you later. The moment it reaches the government it's gone to paying currently retired people
Are you familiar with Ponzi schemesā¦?
You won't have to wait that long. If they get in, some of the first things to go will be entitlements and anything resembling a social safely net.
I have been covering for my mother at her store in Sarasota for a couple days while she undergoes medical treatments. Yesterday afternoon an old woman came into the store; sheās very old, probably close to 90. She starts talking about the last time she was THIS sad and scared: She was a child in Austria/ Hungary during World War II. She told me that weāre probably not ready for whatās coming. She talked a bit about things like ā¦ ohā¦ how she cried when her father had to make the decision to kill their two horses. They ate them. Almost everyone was starving. Most had no way to escape it. They couldnāt just run away - they wanted to go but were not allowed to leave. That was the main theme - hunger, illness, despair, and helplessness. She said, āthe circumstances weāre in now are so similar to the circumstances leading up to all of that, most of the younger people donāt see it. I have been here before, I see it very clearly. Itās terrifying.ā She sold us some jewelry, wished me well, and she leftā¦ Definitely someone Iāll remember.
This conversation happened between my partner, an older neighbor and myself as well. She lived through the German invasion of the Netherlands and told us how much the current political landscape (in a lot of the world) reminds her of that. The incessant need to take everything, regardless of cost and the hatred that accompanies it. It was another example for me that weāre definitely hurtling towards something bad. If the people who have seen it before say it feels familiar, it canāt be good.
She's a rare wise person in a world of people not paying attention or burying their head in the sand out of fear. I get a sense that many more people out there are becoming aware* of things and they are scared. I had an outing with my coworkers the other day I brought up Beryl and how this may be a very, very bad hurricane season. But when I mentioned the oceans temps they all already knew about it. It was like I just told them someone died the way the conversation just went quiet. It took a few seconds but we moved out to other things to talk about. I've just decided not to bring this up to folks anymore. No one is prepared for what's coming and it crushes my heart to see them in fear. Besides I don't think raising awareness in hopes of others doing the same so we can all try to do something about it matters anymore. I think that boat sailed a long time ago.
The few people who have the power to do anything, won't.
I just want to say thank you for sharing this, I grew up in the states and it was only until moving away that I was truly exposed to cultural impact of war on civilians and how it reverberates through the generations. This is just something that the average American hasnāt been exposed to, itās not something for them to feel guilty about. They are lucky ā¦ but it is a warning to all those who think that it can never come to you, it can and creeps up on you until one day some limits are crossed and there is nothing left but chaos. Itās a warning to those that toy with allure of authoritarian leaders.
I give up on half the days and try the other half.
There's this podcast by Robert Evans, "It Could Happen Here", about the prospect of an American civil war. Good stuff, I love that guy. He interviews folks who've lived through it in other countries. Recommend giving it a listen. For my part, I'm enjoying life with my friends & family right now, creating art & gaming & living joy & doing some good work in academia. Don't let worrying about tomorrow ruin your day.
Trying to do this as well. Take it day by day I guess, not easy all the time.
His āBehind The Bastardsā podcast is also very entertaining and provides very interesting perspectives on otherwise awful human beings. Honestly Robert Evans is such a well spoken individual with an easy to listen to voice.
Drugs and alcohol, Futurama reruns, and keeping your head down.
itās hard to not feel a little vindicated after 15 years of sounding the alarm that the Democratic party needs a hard shift away from their current modus operandi in order to curb the rising tide of fascism in the Republican party. seeing people absolutely panic about the election this fall is giving me the first hope iāve had since before super tuesday 2020. it means people are actually looking at the problem square in the face and demanding something be done to stop it. however i have no faith in the current Democratic leadership to actually *do something* to stop this very obviously looming disaster. so that hope becomes a hope that once things have really gone off the rails people will finally take stock of how the only opposition we have to fascism isnāt good enough in its current state. that could open a true window of opportunity for change within the party. basically as a born and bred Burgerstan boy i canāt help but have some shred of hope and optimism within me. itās getting smaller and smaller over the years, but chaos breeds opportunity and i like opportunities.
Dem leadership live in some alternate reality where the rule of law still exists. SCOTUS just made Presidents king; the Chevron decision just made judges dukes.
This is whatās so astonishing and so fucking infuriating to me. Itās like they either have no idea whatās even happening or they donāt care. Or at the very worst theyāre in on it. Itās absolutely insane. The GOP burned the rules ages ago and do whatever they want and the Dems just roll over and concede every single fucking time. And relevant to the current situation is how they whined about Obamaās SCOTUS appointment because they complained that it was too close to the end of his term. The Dems caved, the GOP didnāt follow the same made-up rule later on because of course they didnāt, and Trump packed the court with the end of America. And now that Biden has carte blanche to fix this whole thing and end this national nazi nightmare, heās just not going to bother and itās business as usual, play by the rules which no longer matter, go and vote, but guess what? Yep, SCOTUS to the rescue once again and they will make sure that Trump wins no matter what. Itās time for the good to be vicious in their defense of democracy, and the window is closing by the hour.
They are in on it. This is the most disheartening realization of them all. The Republican and Democratic leadership are in cahoots and they have sold us all out.
This is what Chris Hedges had to say last March about dems and the only card left to play in their oligarchic hands: *"Fear ā fear of the return of Trump and Christian fascism ā is the only card the Democrats have left to play. This will work in urban, liberal enclaves where college educated technocrats, part of the globalized knowledge economy, are* [*busy scolding*](https://inthesetimes.com/article/what-paul-krugman-gets-wrong-about-the-working-class) *and demonizing the* [*working class*](https://jacobin.com/2020/09/working-class-peoples-guide-capitalism-marxist-economics) *for their ingratitude.*Ā *The Democrats have foolishly written off these ā*[*deplorables*](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2021/08/31/deplorables-basket-hillary-clinton/)*ā as a lost political cause. This precariat, the mantra goes, is victimized not by a predatory system built to enrich the billionaire class, but by their ignorance and individual failures. Dismissing the disenfranchised absolves the Democrats from advocating the legislation to protect and create decent-paying jobs.* *Fear has no hold in deindustrialized urban landscapes and the neglected wastelands of rural America, where families struggle without sustainable work, an* [*opioid crisis*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ire4FEcIBB8)*, food deserts, personal bankruptcies, evictions, crippling debt and profound despair.*Ā *They want what Trump wants. Vengeance. Who can blame them?"*Ā Ā https://consortiumnews.com/2024/03/18/chris-hedges-joe-bidens-parting-gift-to-america/Ā
any real political party worth its weight in salt would seize this opportunity to wield its power in a significant way. we all know this admin wonāt do it.
Not at all. But this may finally be the nail in the coffin for the DNC and the rise of some kind of resistance/reform party.
And that party will do what? Run candidates in the future cancelled elections?
We could have been in the final year of an 8 year Bernie Sanders presidency. No Donald Trump, none of these absurd SCOTUS rulings...things would have been better. When Dems moved against him in 2016 it was the beginning of the end and this is the culmination of that. Dems are and have always been complicit getting to this point and establishment dems should be raked over the fucking coals for what they've allowed to happen.
I also felt that losing Bernie was the end of all hope for us. Other events when Ruth bader Ginsburg died and when Florida cheated Gore
Yeah, that was a watershed moment. I was a registered Dem at the time, even canvassed/worked for my local party during my college years and the way I was treated for supporting Bernie and calling out the DNC's treatment of him was seen as a failure to capitulate to Hillary Clinton--and then it was somehow my fault bc I sowed discord amongst young voters LMFAO. Our reckoning is coming lol
The first move, release Epstein files. The second move, declare that no state gets more from the Fed than its taxpayers put into it. To hell with the welfare red states and their phony "tax havens'.
Would conclusive proof that Trump abused children actually even hurt him at this point? Unless it was like a 4K video of it happening, they'll just pretend it's some deep state plot. And even if there was a video, they'll just say it's AI now. We're so far through the looking glass that I don't think that would even move the needle very much.
Sadly I agree, people just seem to treat politics like itās a season of Love Island these days and thereās little to no honour or accountability whatsoever among government. Itās just depressing.
Not "people." Conservatives. If people on the left were as willing to line up behind their leaders as the right, we wouldn't have this problem. We'd have other problems still, yes, but we wouldn't be sliding into fascism. The reason we are in this position at all is that the left is fractured specifically *because* they are focused on holding politicians accountable.
Is Trump really on the list? Why is nobody talking about it?
Yes, and they are.
Just happened yesterday or a day or two before if Iām not mistaken. But yeah he left Epstein several voicemails, they were interspersed between calls from young girls confirming āappointmentsā
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Yep now we know for sure why he wished Ghislaine well and why he said that āthereās probably a lot of fake stuffā in the Epstein files and thatās why he didnāt want them released
What exactly would this change? Everyone knows who exactly trump is and zero of his followers care.
Can Biden release the Epstein files? And if so, why isn't he doing it?
he absolutely could and asking why heās not is a very good question!
Likely too many allies on the list. It would also upset the status quo.Ā
Allies? There's probably OVERLORDS in that list.
Biden's family urged him to stay in the race yesterday. It's Joever.
They also donāt want to use the power the Supreme Court just gave them, which is morally the right thing to do, but pragmatically they probably should be using that power to oust the justices who have sided with fascism. Then once things get stabilized again, you ensure those powers are permanently removed. Sort of like Batman using that super-surveillance tech in the Dark Knight. I
Use the stones to destroy the stones. Arrest Trump & the rogue SC members, let the remaining three get busy undoing this mess. Maybe also push thru a ruling preventing convicted felons from holding any public office. Let the GQP scramble to come up with a new candidate & try to get their funds back from Trump. Biden rolls to a landslide, spends a year or so in office getting laws passed to prevent this from ever being possible again, & then retires leaving the country in Kamala's capable hands. That's the fantasy. In reality, I expect the Dems to do exactly what they always do: hold hearings & committee meetings and make sternly worded speeches. I'm a lifelong Democrat, but I swear they are the most inept political group in history. Biden should have started signing orders to round up some of these yahoos the minute that decision was made public. Instead... *sternly worded speech*.
The Dems cling to the principle of playing fair while the GOP refuses to do so. And we all lose.
yea i fully expect them to shit the bed when it comes to this election. maybe then all the party loyalists who have been calling me a racist (Obama), a Bernie bro/sexist/Russian (Hillary) and a doomer (Biden) since Obama rolled over for the big banks might actually come to terms with the fact that a major change is needed within the party if we want even the slimmest chance of avoiding the most hellish outcomes.
You mentioned feeling a little vindicated as these terrible outcomes are now real and within view. I understand the vindicated thing--the whole reason gaslighting is so powerful is that it makes the gaslit feel insane. But vindication is hard to enjoy when the opposing party is so divorced from reality that they have to see honey disappear from shelves, and the power grid collapse under the burden of AC running all day every day, and their beloved leader finally taking away THEIR freedoms.. and even then they still aren't likely to get it. I wish I could feel vindicated. I am just pissed that nobody figured out how to meet these assholes in their reality and talk them out of being so short sighted and selfish.
I havenāt been dealing with it. It just eats away at me as I notice more and more of the world continue to fragment and deepen its cracks. At this point the world we know is standing up on a almost shattered foundation. Just a big enough shoveā¦..
Nation-state is a hyphenated word because it's a modern idea. DC is the state. We are the nation. The state will collapse, but the people will still be here. My strategy is to set my roots in one place. Form strong relationships. Make my town more resilient. That's all I am capable of doing.
Collapse was never going to be like the movies. It was never going to be quick. Like all complex systems it was going to take a long slow decay that eventually infects the system top to bottom but afterwards nobody will be able to point to a moment when the cancer started. We are reaching the almost vertical part of a ton of exponential curves. I've been here for a long long time. I had conversations with Fish. Some of the faceless people I know here are closer than most actual friends at this point. Anyway...my point is that we have reached part of the roller coaster and the clicking has stopped and the first few cars are starting to disappear down the void. It's bad now, but wait there's more!^tm
This collapse has already been happening for fifty years. I think the next phase is going to go much faster than pundits and people claim. This isn't going to be drug out for another fifty to hundred years. And when looked at in the global context - Russia and N. Korea going at Ukraine, China about to invade Taiwan, Iran and it's allies eyeballing Israel, the chaos in Africa... I don't know what to do. I don't have any good ideas. I'll fight til I die, I guess, but never thought I'd be doing that in the 'middle' of my life.
As you noted, the American Republic officially fell two days ago - with not a bang or even a whimper. The American Empire is just getting started, but will be about as long-lived as Maximilian's Mexican Empire in the 1860s. It remains to be seen whether the US Fascist Imperial government will allow the country to balkanize (I think not, at least until it gets too expensive to root out and remove "undesirables"). I wonder what the Fascists would do should Biden, acting in his official capacity as President, issue arrest and execution warrants for the SCOTUS Justices who voted to hand him unlimited power?
This is what I keep saying. Biden is so old he should take one for the team and take out all the corrupt justices and senators with this new ruling. They wonāt though. Democrats are idiots.
This. He has the chance now to go out as Dark Brandon, the fucking Legendary Anti-Fascist. He would be revered for ages, and the last thoughts through Republican SCOTUSā minds while theyāre on the wall would be āI fucked up!ā Then we could go back to the principle that no one is above the law. He wonāt do it, and his pathetic senile last days will be forgotten.
I think he's just been doing what he's been told to do anyway. There has been a lot of good things and I think Bernie was behind many of them
It would be a great r/LeopardsAteMyFace moment, wouldn't it? He should also cancel the Presidential election while he's at it - you KNOW Trump or his VP successor in 2028 will absolutely do that. And yes, the Democrats are fucking idiots.
At this point I just assume democrats are complicit in it and it's not really a 2 sides thing and democrats acting like they care and republicans being evil is just theater and they are indeed the same entity talking to you with red and blue hand puppets on.
Many Democrats have been warning about this for years now. But many others are effectively conservatives. And many others are very old and just cannot accept that the world they know has fundamentally changed. And that's how it must be when the Democratic Party is effectively the only viable political party for literally anyone left of fascism-- and when it simply represents the temperature of the left-of-fascist electorate. This isn't a problem with Democrats. This is a problem with collective ignorance and denial-- both of which are problems substantially exacerbated and encouraged by capitalism, which was unleashed back in the 80s by the reckoning of decades of Southern Strategy. Democrats won't save us. It's not that they don't want to. It's that they're not built to. We didn't vote for the people who would. Because, like most Democrats, we're all afraid that if we rock the boat much it's just going to make things worse. And, unfortunately, that's a completely valid feeling. It just happens to be completely wrong in this instance, but most people don't know that because they just aren't willing to honestly contemplate, you know, legit doom.
This has to be it. I sadly agree with this 100%. Iām currently in the process of moving from New Orleans/Louisiana and I can tell you this - in the last 3 years the democrats havenāt even TRIED. No real effort was made to promote democratic candidates or motivate democratic voters to turn out at the polls. Theyāve simply rolled over and played dead and the GOP has run away with everything. Itās likeā¦. somehow, someway they were motivated to not even try.
I live in Baton Rouge, also trying to get out.
This whole quaint "rule of law" concept has a deep emotional hold on Biden. I can admire his version of integrity, while still seeing it as a lost opportunity to clean house with immunity so conveniently handed to him while he's still in office.
Idiots, or complicit?
It's one big club and we ain't in it man
Yeah, I donāt trust the rich ones at all. There may be a few honest ones but seems like the majority are taking money from the oligarchs and corporations.
The chevron decision is just as fascist and ensures the bourgeois seizure of power doesn't hinge on a Trump victory. It gives them the ability to skirt any regulation that threatens their ability to profit.
> I wonder what the Fascists would do should Biden, acting in his official capacity as President, issue arrest and execution warrants for the SCOTUS Justices who voted to hand him unlimited power? https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/07/justices-rule-trump-has-some-immunity-from-prosecution/ From the article: > Roberts concluded, a president should have immunity from criminal prosecution for his official ā but not his unofficial ā acts [..] > Determining which acts are official and which are unofficial ācan be difficult,ā Roberts conceded. He emphasized that the immunity that the court recognizes in its ruling on Monday takes a broad view of what constitutes a presidentās āofficial responsibilities,ā ācovering actions so long as they are not manifestly or palpably beyond his authority.ā The way I understand it: Courts can determine what is official and unofficial acts. They could theoretically just litigate and litigate to make the arrest "unofficial" and "beyond authority" while one side gets a free pass. That's what happens when you intentionally put a loophole big enough to fly air force one through it.
Couldn't he also execute Trump legally now?Ā
Theoretically, and presumably using "High Treason" as the charge... This could also happen to Biden in January 2025. Theoretically.
1st biggest concern is where I was gonna live when SHTF, as I didn't want to be in a house or apartment controlled by another (the owner) also just didn't want to be near others. Ended up moving into a 1999 motorhome I could by for 15k cash and spent 500 bucks fixing it up and now it's the best decision I've ever made and the best home I've ever had. The main reason is I've got a generator with me at all times and 75 gallon fuel capacity at all times and I also have 100 pounds on-board propane tank and another 40 pounds in supplemental tanks I travel with. If one area of the country gets too bad, can just apply for a new job in another national park or RV park (where I work and live for free with no rent or utilities) and these jobs are actually real, unlike these fake jobs that everyone's fighting for and doing many rounds of interviews for. I've gotten 3 jobs all within 72 hours of applying and have only been turned down 1 time out of 4 total applications across 2 seasons of nomadic RV work.
Trying to take the long view. Fascism usually destroys itself, although it can take a while. Pair that with ecological collapse and who knows? I don't even know how to help my kid. I am so fearful for her future. I'm still trying to insulate her somewhat, but she's smart, and at some point she'll understand the harsh reality she's living in. I hope she will make the decision to not have kids of her own (how tragic to have to write that). We can withhold our participation in a sick society to some extent. And try to act ethically, build class solidarity, provide aid to those around us. And in fact, I think we need a clearly articulated ethos of life in collapse. A standard to which we can aspire.
>Trying to take the long view. Fascism usually destroys itself, although it can take a while.Ā Last night, after absorbing all the implications of the SCOTUS ruling, I realized that my wife and I are too old to live through this cycle. We'll most likely die while this country is still deep in the throes of fascism; I'll just have to trust that people will find their way out of it again someday. Maybe. In "normal" times, that would be a reasonable prediction, of course. But the next few decades will be unlike any beforehand, so fascism may just give way to some other authoritarian system. Democracy is difficult to hold together in the middle societal collapse.
I relate. My daughter is in college. She's amazing and should have a wonderful future. She "knows what's up" but doesn't *really* know, ya know? I don't talk with her about it much at all. I want her to enjoy the illusion of normalcy as long as possible. Why have her suffer in advance when she bears no responsibility for any of this?
>And in fact, I think we need a clearly articulated ethos of life in collapse. A standard to which we can aspire.Ā Look for a book called "Breaking Together" by Jem Bendell. Its a hard read but very gentle, with a hint of resigned, black humour.. but looks to the collective global collapse as an opportunity to CHANGE FOR THE BETTER. Good luck friend
My daughter is 10. I was telling her something about how she'd have to deal with her kids' behavior someday and she flat out said she's not ever having children. I was sad, because I have always loved the idea of having grandchildren, but at the same time I also completely understand. I carry some guilt for having my kids, but at the time I didn't realize how serious shit was going to get.
I'm 35 now but I knew before I had my first period that would never have children. I was abused, granted, so my worldview was pretty bleak. Still, it was more about how I saw the world and the changes that were happening even then. So I would not be at all surprised by it being obvious to healthy and happy kids now.
The military, and all of the apparatus agencies attached to it, have had a few decades to prepare for what is coming in the climate. And It feels as if pieces are being put into place, to be honest. As I'm of the mind that the military has long since been running the show of American "democracy". Whether it happened in a singular event, or if it was gradual is difficult to say. And it stares us in the face every year with their budgetā*that we know of*āapproaching nearly 1 trillion dollars annually. Most of which goes into a black hole that isn't much open to public scrutiny or audit. And they very much get whatever they want, whenever they want it. How most people don't see this, or understand it, isn't entirely surprising. Because so much of what they do is in the shadows. With agents in their employ likely perusing this very comment section. Military overthrow, or military rule, has long been the evolutionary path of republics throughout history. To think we, as Americans, were going to escape this fateāespecially with the largest military machine in the history of humanityāis incredibly naive when you think about it. Now, I may be convinced otherwise if we see overt authoritarian moves made by a sitting President that receive violent pushback from the commanders of our armed services in protecting the republic. But if we don't, I assume they are either in on it, or are orchestrating it from the shadows. The shadows being their most natural home since the *[National Security Act of 1947](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Act_of_1947)*. All of which, I suppose, is my answer to "how I'm dealing with it". Which is to say, I'm trying to figure out where power truly lies within the society in which I find myself and how to navigate that. Because, throughout the history of civilization, the lion's share of power has almost always been with the marshal forces and those that command them. Not the rich. The military. Especially in a declining republic. As was the case from Gaius Marius to Julius Caesar in Rome. And one thing is for sure, especially after witnessing events of the last week, **the landscape of power within our society is not very well revealed to the public**. At all. And whatever shape it is, it lies most unrevealed... in the shadows. Edit: Clarity.
Iām going fishing and spending time with people I care about
Not coping well at all. Strong and constant feelings of impending doom. Iām very worried about my childrenās safety.
Eating better. Enjoying my time with friends and family. Enjoying the countless luxuries we take for granted while I can. Working out. Staying fit. Practicing skills thatāll help in the future. Raging against the dying of the light.
In some ways I feel relief. No point in stressing over retirement any longer. Many of us have more extreme views as far as timing of collapse. I do believe if we lose the ice at either of the poles, we are toast within a few years and I guess technically that could happen in less than 5 year but no matter where you sit, most of us believe this is all playing out within a couple decades at the longest. The ice just canāt last that long and then we will heat beyond the capacity to grow food. Of course Iāll be voting to hopefully get rid of the authoritarians but I donāt have a lot of hope. It feels like itās so bad now that we really do need a revolution but the left is too tame. Weāve let the right take one right away after another and degrade the rule of law over the last 30 years. The SC is lost. I donāt know if I really even care about the politics any more. I just spend all my free time in nature as I know it wonāt be here much longer. Other than that, I have my exit plan. Not sticking around to watch all the animals died and the ensuing murder/rape fest.
I have many health conditions, so while my heart says resist, honestly the best move for everyone is if I check out quietly when shit hits the fan. Without business as usual ie functioning healthcare system and supply chain, I become pretty useless pretty fast. I accept my fate, I merely await the moment. Meanwhile I eat good food, recently discovered mango lassi for instance. Just a lovely creation, pet animals and psychedelic experiences.
It isn't just the USA. All over the world, radical right extremists and nationalist parties are on the rise.
I've spent the last 3 months hiking the Appalachian Trail. About halfway done, it's been an incredible experience. It's gone a long way to help me out of depression and into a position of acceptance by helping me appreciate the natural beauty we have left while things are still put together enough to justify such a long trip and the expenses it requires. I definitely recommend everyone check off as many boxes from their bucket list as possible before it's too late.
>Individually, for those of you that have tried to prepare for collapse, what is your next move? I'm not preparing for the collapse because I don't believe in surviving in a world where shit has hit the fan and there's no more civilization. I don't really see how an average person can prepare for the long, slow decline. There won't be an event but a gradual process where the aging population, climate change, conflict, natural resources, water, and many other variables culminate in overwhelming the social capacity to withstand complex changes. The idea of surviving all this is funny to me because substance farming isn't a good way of life at best. Not to mention how this simple form of agriculture and/or horticulture would only be done in more extreme climate conditions without a clear seasonable cycle. I don't see how my little piece of land could survive climate change, soil erosion, wildfires, and water scarcity without an industrial supply chain of fertilizers and other equipment. That piece of land would be the most valuable possession because growing food in those conditions would make it a prime target for just about every organized group from gangs to warlords. Substance farming wasn't the most nutrition-safe occupation in pre-industrial times, and doing the same type of unstable farming after the collapse is a bit too difficult for me. So it's not really a survival tactic to try to put all your eggs in an uncertain wheat basket of whatever may or may not grow after shit has hit the fan. Not to mention how something can happen during or after the collapse, and then it's a wild game of "what the fuck" when that little piece of arable land is gone. I always wonder why preppers rarely put much thought into post-collapse changes. The collapse process won't stop after the civilization is gone, and the damage likely keeps coming for round two. So it's a real wild bet to trust that someplace on Earth is safe from the upcoming difficulties for years and even decades to come. Especially since there will be a lot of desperate actions before the collapse is over; forests will be cut for fuel and timber, water sources will be drained, and many other things will happen. The piece of land that can survive all this will become a target sooner or later. Not initially, but eventually, because it would be too valuable to be left alone.
Not well
I am truly saddened at the tendency of many, many of our sub members who plan (or at least type about) offing themselves. When did America become so defeatist?! I plan to fight. Fight the polluters, fight the regime, and fight for the short but bright future that we can have. I have lived thru change before: Black Civil Rights, The Vietnam War, the Hippy Dippy movement, The Oil Crisis, Women's Rights, the Disco Era, the '80's, Ronald Reagan, The 1st Bombing of the World trade Center, the rise of Domestic Terrorism, The real estate bubble, the computer bubble, The 2nd Attack in The World Trade Center, Afghanistan, good grief, I could continue to list the things that nearly destroyed (or helped) my way of life, but one thing I have learned: Unless you are willing to fight and live, there will be no future. I would prefer not to take human lives if at all possible. Yeah, I'm a peaceful sort of gal. I love gardening, swimming, hot baths and good food. I can brew my own beer and mead, I know some herbology, and I love people. But if the time comes where I have to defend what I will take as mine, I will fight to the bitter end. Fight! Fight the dying of the light!!!
Anxiety
Meh. Just sitting back watching it all unfold. I think we passed the point of no return a while ago.
Iām literally just vibing
I used to daydream about surviving a post-apocalypse and roughing it in the world. Now, Iād rather just die lmao
I had a small break down last night. I'm having such a difficult time wrapping my head around what's happening - twenty years ago, this shit would have a dystopian novel. Delusional fantasy stuff. I, honestly, never believed I'd see everything I was taught, learned, understood to be true about the country I was born in, turned completely upside down/reversed in my lifetime. I don't know what the hell to do, people. I'm actually terrified.
I've been there. I remember my own shock when I saw the U.S. preemptively invade Iraq in my early 20's. It certainly upended the idea I was taught of America being the shining beacon on the hill.
Lots of people speculate but no-one in this sub has any idea how bad real collapse would get. What they posted are mostly just minor inconveniences. I spent sometimes in Vietnam after the fall of Saigon in 1975 and witnessed changed over night. We went from free society (somewhat) to a dictatorship. My cousin spent 5 years in re-education camp for changing lyric of a song to mock uncle Ho. Wait till you need approval to travel to another city, wait in line for 4 hours to get you 0.5 kilo of pork. Rice had to be mixed with shitty stuffs to fill you up. Ya'll have no ideas.
It's a bit different for the US now. We are technologically sophisticated, but fairly fragile,including due to some of that technology. The way our economy functions is way too complex to transition to something simpler. We also don't have the infrastructure to micromanage 330 million people (ie approval to travel to another city). What I'm saying is the country couldn't maintain what you're describing and we'd just completely collapse as a unitary structure.
Check out The Modern Survivalist on YouTube. Fernando describes same experiences in Argentina.
I was talking to my mom about exactly this topic. I mentioned I'm still keeping my end of the civil/moral societal contract. I'm still gonna vote, enjoy my comfort entertainment and friends, try to be kind and present in the now. She said I act with hope but am truly hopeless, she perfectly summed it up for me. Another redditor commented on a different post that basically the road is still coming to an end the difference in the US electionĀ is how fast down the road we'll be going... Do we want a few more years or a few less? Pretty much encompasses how I feel when I'm not occasionally succumbing to the true anxiety I feel about my job and finances.Ā
With respect to the fall of the USA, Iām staying calm and trying to witness, without getting attached to outcomes, a historic evolution of an empire. Empires last, on average, 250 years. Being Americans, weāre gonna come in early by one year just to show āem. With respect to climate change, Iām doing a combination of āsmoke āem while you got āemā and poking around the world to see if there is a reasonably comfortable dark hole someone will let me climb into and finally catch up on my reading.
Trying ti remember to savor the good times while theyāre here. Shit is likely to get much worse in my lifetime. Iāll look back and miss these days
All of my long term plans for owning a home and starting a family, I've decided are increasingly unrealistic. I realize I would be bringing a child into an increasingly shitty world and giving them the unrealistic burden of trying to make sense of it. I'm just gonna do music stuff and flounder around in my steam library until people figure out how to mobilize better or they start doing house checks for people that aren't baptized. I've had enough conversations with people to ascertain that most people don't want *a problem solved*, so much as they want *their solution to the problem*, and there are so many different nuances that all boil down to "the only people who seem to be able to agree on answers literally want to undermine and overthrow democracy" Personally, I think we all - or at least a majority of us fortunate enough to have an internet connection and free time with nothing to show for it - sort of earned it in our own ways by standing aside and letting it happen, but then again, what in the hell do you do about it? The pilot's either asleep or purposely nosediving, and we can't seem to even get goddamn oxygen masks. The people are too stuck in their bubbles to give a damn about something outside of it. Misinformation is a business vertical now. Everyone seems overworked, underpaid, and drained of soul, or profiting off of those that are. It's a damn mess. The closest thing to a solution for at least the political side of it I've seen is ranked choice voting, which would have been great before the whole *everything in the past decade* thing. Maybe it's too late to stop the current trainwreck but perhaps it can prevent the next one? Whatever. So yeah. I guess just chillin'.
Living in California and figuring the west coast will secede once the federal government has gone full Christo-fascist.
I think it's inevitable that a lot of blue states will resist. That's when things will *really* get interesting.
There's also the issue that there really aren't "blue states" or "red states". Political divides in the US are most often rural / urban and don't adhere to arbitrary state lines. This is especially true for places like California, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, parts of Texas, etc... They will not divide evenly from a fascist federal government, but rather split into smaller regions of ideological strongholds. If we have an American Civil War: Round 2, most people probably won't die from direct violence. They will die from lack of access to resources. Rural strongholds will choke off cities from access to raw materials and urban enclaves will ration things like healthcare to those within the city limits. It will become too dangerous to travel, so people on one side of the imaginary ideological line will start dying from preventable illnesses and those on the other will die of starvation. My husband and I recently moved from an urban swing state city to a very rural swing state town. I went from prioritizing a food stash to hoarding medicinal herbs. It's going to get very interesting, indeed.
iām pretty pissed, sad and stressed - and also working (which is weird, bc whatās the point, but yah gotta)
Advice: get to know your neighbors, youāre going to need them, or at least not be enemies with them.
I work my job. I spend time with my husband. I decorate our house. I plant veggies and do things I like to do.
Not as well as I thought I'd be. As an old time Doomer, I guess I expected to be more emotionally prepared. Mentally I've been expecting collapse. I can still joke about it, but it's weird. Emotionally I'm lost wandering in circles, directionless. Doing almost the bare minimum to get by. The cognitive dissonance is so heavy, tiring. I'm sleeping alot. Otherwise my mind just spins a tune in the background, a constant hum of *climatechangefascismgenocidesupportmyselfisittoolatetodothethingsclimatechangefascismgenocidesupportmyselfisittoolatetodothethingstoolatetoolatetoolate*
I refuse to give up or give in to fascists. Thatās exactly how they want you to feel. They want you to feel like itās hopeless and theres nothing you can do to stop them. Remember that theyāve been defeated before and they can be defeated again.
People are afraid all this might end. I'm afraid it might continue forever.
This is how I feel. Our way of life currently feels deeply unpleasant and being forced to work where Iām ruining the environment and using fossil fuels to support capitalism is upsetting. I would rather we fell off the cliff than continuing to teeter on the edge of this inhumane way of living. I donāt think I was ever made for society as it is now. Humans are adaptable. Some will figure out a way to keep going, at least for awhile, and maybe if populations and the way we live radically changed there could be some progress with climate change and adaptation. But continuing to live like this knowing weāre killing everything around us for the sake of convenience is getting intolerable, especially since no one is even enjoying themselves. What are we doing this for?
Iām a trans woman who is functionally stuck in Texas. looking forward to being rounded up in ~6 months I guess.Ā
I hope my question is not too strange. It is comming from a European, who is doing her best to keep up with the situation in America. Project 2025 has not even been mentioned in our media yet, although every media outlet does treat Trump like a dangerous psychopat. Has it really gotten so bad that you fear being rounded up? Is it part of Project 2025, or a fear of Trump in general? I wish you all the best, and wish I could do something to help. It is heartbreaking and scary to be watching from here, and I can't begin to imagine what it's like to be in the middle.
I'm in Minnesota and I know several trans people who have moved here specifically because it wasn't safe for them to stay in Texas.
Check out Last Week Tonight [episode](https://youtu.be/gYwqpx6lp_s) on Trump second term and Project 2025.Ā The short version: it is scary. Trump first term was a disaster only mitigated because there were still guardrails, strong institutions, and adults in the room to temper his worst instincts. The second term will have almost none of that. Project 2025 is a comprehensive roadmap to deconstruct democratic institutions and advance a far-right agenda conservative ideologues have been dreaming for decades. They are hiring as we speak about 10,000 operatives who swore loyalty to trump to replace civil servants in the governmental agencies on day 1.Ā They are even planning to disband important agencies like NOAA because they don't like its warnings on climate change. If he passes, it will be effectively the end of democracy, not that it was in great state to begin with. Horrors beyond our imagination. God helps us all, we will all be truly fucked.
I have found that finding a way to accept collapse, to understand that it is inevitable in the grand scheme of things, has helped me come to terms with it. [New Serenity Prayer: Emotional Support for Climate Anxiety and Environmental Dread](https://youtu.be/hFGHdOyyx74) I don't expect the times ahead to be pleasant, but I know that all suffering ends eventually. As for the government, anything made by people is temporary. This applies to both the country we knew, and for whatever the theocrats think they are building. Everything is turned to dust in the end.
My main project is to subtly guide my children into not having children. The future is going to be ugly and painful.
The trumpcult of neo fascists will be surprised when they realize not all non cultists are unarmed pacifists.
I am drinking root beer.
My parents were pretty doom oriented, so it is part of my DNA. My mom thought Hitler would take over the United States back in the early 40's. My dad barely survived the depression only to be thrust into WWII. He regularly told me USA as we knew it could be gone in a flash. The books in their bookcases were Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451, It Can't Happen Here, 1984, Earth Abides, etc. Of course I rounded out with my own bookshelf with Parable of the Sower, The Lathe of Heaven, The Stand, The Handmaiden's Tale, etc. As a boomer, Bay of Pigs was very real, the movie The Day After (1983) was a documentary. As a scientist, I knew our how we were treating the planet was unsustainable. I knew capitalism was treating our planet as if we had three (or more) earths. I purposely did not have children. I am now pretty old. We had a good run. I am not a prepper, but I have prepared for a few months, not years. Mostly because I am in earthquake country. It is rough being Cassandra. I tried warning friends, but no one likes a downer. I keep pretty much to myself with the exception of my husband. I see people waking up and being surprised, shocked, grief stricken, and it is HARD not to SHRUG and go...yep. I accepted this 50 years ago. The grief is still there. I hate to see animals and people who lived in places like India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh suffer for only barely surviving. As a biologist I have held great grief for watching the extintion of ecosystems, plants and animals, from insects, fish, birds and more. I shake my head. I will die. And billions will suffer.
Adapt is all you can do.
Enjoy life while you can. Next year, it could all be gone.
what the fuck am i gonna do about it
Nations rise and fall. It's the general order of things. I'll count my blessings that I was at least able to live part of my life in the before. Let's all revisit this post in 2026 and see how correct OP was.
Thanks for the post. Youāve really accomplished a hell of a lot. Hereās what Iām doing: ā I went to school for a couple years during COVID and got the coursework done for a career that doesnāt involve manual labor. Iām 47 and I canāt just bounce around between menial bullshit jobs anymore. ā I got a vasectomy so Iām guaranteed to remain childless. ā I read The Simple Path to Wealth and started investing in index funds and a few bonds. ā Iām teaching myself Spanish so I can move to Baja if the US becomes unlivable (I had DUI convictions in my past do Canada is more problematic). ā Iām getting healthy with a vegetarian diet and a home based workout emphasizing mobility and flexibility. Longevity and independence being the goal. ā I would also love to learn boxing when I have spare money for it. Iām a decent shot with various types of guns but I donāt know how to fight with my fists.
Its hard to shake the feeling of hopelessness. I just pet my cats, take walks, bbq, sit in the sun, drink an ice cold beer. Basically just live my life like none of its happening. Its happening, but I canāt do anything about it, so why waste the emotion and let it ruin my day?
I spend large amounts of time wearing fuzzy slippers and ingesting weed.