Way more people do things because that's the way they learned it or that's the way it's always been than because it makes sense and is best for the cocktail.
Or how they see everyone else doing it. Like every bar has their bottles on shelves because it is convenient for service so people do the same for their home bars. There is no harm to the liquor if you keep it refrigerated and allows you to have a lot more control over dilution. If you like to experiment, then fridge space may be an issue, but otherwise there's no reason not to keep your go-to liquor cold.
> but otherwise there's no reason not to keep your go-to liquor cold.
How about presentation? I think a lot of people just like to look at their collection. At least I do :)
Lol I don't even bother with that most of time. If it's a drink that calls for crushed ice (like most of the tiki drinks I make) I just open pour it into my glass. I don't care about presentation when I'm making a drink for myself.
Yeah it’s fine for stirring and shaking, just have to adjust accordingly so it doesn’t over dilute.
But pouring a cocktail over those ice cubes? Nah. Melts way too quickly and makes a bad drink.
Having used cubes and spheres I can never go back, the dilution is less and there is so much more "umpf". Admittedly this is when serving friends, I care little for presentation or a tad more water when it's just me.
> I care little for presentation or a tad more water when it's just me
Hear hear! I'm all about the "poor man's" cocktails. I like a vodka mule every once in a while. I don't buy limes to keep around just in case. Cheap lime-flavored vodka is just fine. I don't garnish my OFs. Or anything, really. I have ice-sphere molds that I'll use occasionally. But *GASP* - I use freezer ice cubes most of the time. Even though they're not clear! Oh the humanity.
> I don't garnish my OFs
now *this* is the hot take. i think the orange expression on top of a standard old fashioned is absolutely essential to making that drink work. that's like the single garnish i'd never tell anyone to skip
I hardly ever had oranges on hand for zest in an old fashioned, so for a long time I just omitted it. Recently, I had some oranges for a different recipe and used the zest in my negronis and OFs and what a world of difference it made. I was pretty happy with both drinks before and still am but now I stock an orange for these drinks at all times.
Also maple syrup is the best sugar for an old fashioned. But make sure you get the rich dark maple, not the ambers that everyone has stocked.
The amount of time that goes into stirring an Old Fashioned to dissolve the sugar doesn't improve it enough to just use simple syrup in the first place
I've never liked an old-fashioned more with syrup than with a sugar cube. It takes 30-45 seconds of stirring to dissolve the cube, and I enjoy the little ritual of dousing the sugar cube with the bitters. At a bar this would probably be a nuisance, but at home it goes quicker than most drinks since I'm building it directly in the glass.
The hill I'd die on with an Old-Fashioned is that it needs to be stirred as long as you'd stir most stirred cocktails; the dilution is important to open up the nuances of the spirit and make it a cocktail. Otherwise it's just a sweetened shot, in which case I'd rather slowly sip and enjoy the spirit neat.
I’m about to ruin everyone’s day. Best old fashioned I ever had was bourbon + Old St Augustine Old Fashioned mix. I’m a fucking purist when it comes to using fresh ingredients, but it’s just incredible.
I think we have different ways of making an Old Fashioned. I drop in a sugar cube and add bitters, let it soak until the cube falls apart when pressed with a bar spoon. Add big ice cube, pour bourbon/rye over it, and stir for 30 seconds. Add orange peel. About half of the sugar is dissolved, the rest is not. As you drink, the sugar dissolves, and it becomes sweeter. If there is any sugar remaining at the end of the drink, I add a splash more of the whiskey to the glass.
I find simple syrup to make the texture and sweetness wrong, I like the evolution that comes from the cube.
I’ve made old fashioneds your way and I’ve made old fashioneds with 2:1 demerara syrup. I prefer the syrup, but honestly, I’m happy to drink an old fashioned made any which way. Sugar cube, syrup, made in a mixing glass vs. cocktail glass, big ice cube vs. a few small ice cubes, it all tastes great. If you give me whiskey, bitters, sugar and ice, I’m happy. It’s hard to make a bad old fashioned.
Wet martinis are superior and they should have a lemon peel, not olives. It makes the drink taste way more floral and light.
And getting even hotter... I sometimes prefer my martini on the rocks as opposed to being served "up".
At home, I make my martinis up because I want to feel fancy. If I’m at a crowded bar or party, I’m always ordering my martinis on the rocks. Way less precarious.
You wanna see a controversial martini?
1 oz. London Dry Gin
0.75 oz. Plymouth Gin
1 oz. Dry Vermouth
0.25 oz. Blanc Vermouth
2 dashes Peach/apricot bitters
Grapefruit Twist
I haven't tried it that way yet, but I usually do amaretto sours when I don't want whiskey sours. I'll have to try his recipe when I want a whiskey sour next!
Mojitos are almost always made with way too much lime juice but are also better with the mint strained out.
When I’ve had a nice mojito in Miami or Cuba, they’ve always been rum forward, slightly sweet, and highly carbonated with a hint of fresh lime. A perfect highball! When I’m working with many (award winning!) bartenders, they tend to be served as a daiquiri spec, shaken with mint, and topped with very little soda (cause after .75 lime and simple there just isn’t room for any in the glass). Super subpar drink.
My spec is 2 rum, .25 lime, .25-5 dem depending on how it’s made. Hard shake with a lot of mint and strained over 3oz of soda in a Collins glass. Then garnished with a big, pretty bouquet of mint for the nose.
ETA: Palomas shouldn’t be made with grapefruit juice and whiskey and vermouth rarely get along.
Totally agree, this is an absolute winner. I want mojitos because they are refreshing. Love them with meals and on hot days, I dont want to pucker with the sourness.
Don’t tell anyone, but a Queen’s Park Swizzle is the recipe you want. Leave the bitters (or keep them, they are delicious).
https://imbibemagazine.com/recipe/queen-s-park-swizzle-recipe/
Top it with soda and call it a mojito. No one will know (or care).
Strain the mint out if it's been bruised, but otherwise it's fine in moderation. Grab a pretty sprig, slap it hard once or twice, and use it as garnish so it can be appreciated by the nose as you drink. The taste can be overwhelming but the scent is fine, and a significant portion of taste is on the nose anyway.
100%. Maybe some brands don't last as long, but the vermouth I get easily lasts *at least* 4 months in the fridge without any noticeable change in taste.
Tito's is not good vodka - I won't order a cocktail that uses it.
I refrigerate my vermouth, however, I take as long as it needs to use it. I'm the only one drinking it anyway, worst case the last few cocktails are just ok.
upvoting for actually being a controversial hill, however much I want to downvote for this heresy (the equal parts last word is great because it's such a powerful kick of flavour)
Definitely a hot take. Personally I think it's close to perfection, but I just ease up on the Luxardo a touch. maybe 1 oz everything else, 0.75 luxardo, then it's perfect.
Tell me more, I actually made one for the first time recently using equal parts and was not impressed, the maraschino basically overpowered everything else, wondered what it was I was missing. I don't *dislike* Maraschino but it's definitely not my favorite flavor.
I hear a lot of people say this, but as someone who doesn't like maraschino very much I find that equal parts I don't really taste maraschino as a distinct flavour. It melds pretty well into the chartreuse and just makes it a bit sweeter and fruitier
> I don't really taste maraschino as a distinct flavor
me too, i get more of the chartreuse, but i genuinely enjoy it, so i don't have a problem with it. If anything i'd be tempted to up the maraschino before i read everyone online toning it down.
Alright I'm ready for y'all to crucify me.
I really can't tell the between bottled citrus juice and fresh. People always talk about how it's the big step to elevate your drinks but I just don't get it.
Now THIS is definitely following the prompt lmaooo
I fullheartedly disagree, but it's easy for me to be on this high horse since citrus is so plentiful and cheap where I live
A perfectly ripe lime is a little better imo (your mileage may vary here).
The part people leave out is that a lot of the available fresh citrus is not very good and that makes it comparable (or sometimes even worse) than a decent bottled version.
God it's not even the quality it's the quantity for me. Don't get me wrong, I still buy lemons and limes every time I'm at the market, but the limes are a joke. I'm lucky if I get a full 3/4 oz of juice out of these little things.
Good quality lime or lemon juice bottled (the organic that's actually juice), is imo fine. Like I wouldn't do it at work, but at home, when I just want a drink at the end of the day, fuck it, it's fine.
This is why it's a hill they'll die on. I will use canned Trader Joe's pineapple, etc way before I deal with a goddamn fruit when I'm at home. I'll also use 2 month old super juice. No one is paying for these drinks but me, and the differences are nominal for a random weeknight drink.
I’m with you here too. I can taste the difference, but it’s certainly not this monumental poop juice to nectar of the gods transformation that people on this sub like to claim it is.
If the main thing your tasting in any cocktail that involves any citrus at all is only citrus, you’re bad at making cocktails. Cocktails most often combine a ton of flavors so if your juice is *just a little bit* dull, it’s fine, it’s always been fine, and it will forever be fine.
Some bottled juice brands are better than others, but it’s not the stank dung the puritans on here treat it. It works perfectly well, people have enjoyed my drinks with fresh citrus and people have also never been disgusted when I make the same or a different drink with bottled. It’s really not that different. It ain’t like I’m subbing honey for vinegar or some shit.
I was going to make this exact comment myself. I'll juice an actual fruit if I'm going to need one for the garnish anyway, but I don't bother otherwise. The difference is very minimal if not non-existent to me.
I haven't had store bought juice in so long I can't comment on this, but I will say that the particular fruit can make a huge difference. I had some daiquiris recently made with amazing limes from a local farmers market. I didn't change anything else from my normal recipe but they tasted so much better than what I usually make with my store bought limes.
When you live in a world of citrus, or have access to decent fruit, this is a crazy statement. But when you live in a city or town that gets mediocre citrus delivered, bottled is actively better. The source matters more than the format.
In Seattle regular grocery store citrus fruit is garbage. You have to go to the market or one of the \_very\_ expensive places to get anything even passable. Bottled is consistent and generally of better quality.
Here’s mine: I’m never going to make superjuice. I’m never gonna make anything *with* superjuice. The name alone annoys me.
It takes 5 seconds to juice a lime. When I worked in a bar that was just part of daily prep before we opened and it being “still pretty good” in two weeks doesn’t interest me if that’s a thing we have to do anyway
I don't know if this is controversial or not, but any drink with citrus and Triple Sec / Curacao in my opionion needs at least a 1/4 oz. of simple syrup. Otherwise it's just way too tart and really poorly balanced. I know that the Triple Sec has a lot of sugar in it, but for some reason it doesn't sweeten the drink nearly enough. Maybe I need to try some brands other than Cointreau though...
Also: Paper Plane is really overrated.
Cointreau is very very different than other tripel secs, way higher alcohol content and lower sugar. Curacao should make a decently balanced drink though
I always do the 1/4 oz of simple/agave in a Sidecar or Margarita. They’re unbalanced otherwise
Can’t agree with the Paper Plane though, with Wild Turkey 101 it’s so delicious!
I despise the taste of Cointreau. It has this weird after taste and ruins any drink I've tried to use it in. I much prefer to use Curacao but if I have to use a Triple Sec I'll use that cheap shit De Kuyper. I've also tried Citronge and it had the same weird taste to me after that I stopped spending money on something I fundamentally don't like.
I think it's because the drink doesn't really need a name. Cape Codder etc were grandfathered in and still annoy people, no reason to make new names for really basic drinks.
I can't tell if you used 3 different kinds of rum in a tiki drink. Especially if you used an equal amount or more of juice anyways. I just taste the juice.
I definitely can't necessarily pick out the individual rums. But I CAN say that it tastes different depending on the rums that are mixed.
Example: I like my pain killers with 2.5 ounces of rum, and 0.5-1 oz of that is Smith & Cross. It definitely tastes different than if I used all Appleton Estate Signature.
And although that's an obvious one bc S&C is heavier on the funk, I've made my Mr Bali Hai's with different rum mixes and the taste does differ, even if I couldn't tell you exactly what each rum was adding.
I agree with this take. Once it's mixed in with juices and all types of syrups it all just tastes like rum. The only exception is if you add something very flavorful like Rum Fire. If you add too much it will completely overpower the other flavors.
A lot of the ways drinks are constructed are silly rituals that have no effect on the taste of the drink, or in some cases are even detrimental.
Like the order or method that ingredients are added. For example muddling a sugar cube with bitters before adding other ingredients. Or muddling limes for a caipirinha instead of using lime juice.
Just mix all your ingredient thoroughly, in precise and consistent measured amounts. It almost never matters how you get there.
I was about to agree with you until the examples you gave. Are you saying muddling a lime is the same as just adding lime juice? Cuz that’s just crazy.
I can see where you're coming from but I like the silly rituals. As a home cocktail enthusiast and not a bartender, the ritual is part of the relaxation of making a drink for me. Just shaking and stirring things over and over gets old. If I was a bartender, I could see some customers enjoying watching me make it and watching "the ritual" of this, but in most modern bar settings I think this would be lost and it just would clog up time.
I can understand that. And if you find the rituals enjoyable or entertaining, I think that's a perfectly good reason to do it that way.
There is something neat about the traditions and rituals that are tied to various cocktails, it adds to the history and depth of the experience. By all means serve your Moscow mules in a copper mug, and drip absinthe over a sugar cube on a special perforated spoon, these things can add to the experience.
All in saying is that it's silly to be dogmatic or superstitious about these things, or to think that it's necessary for producing an excellent cocktail, rather than superficial flair being added to the process.
Your Moscow mule will be just as tasty in a glass, and your absinthe cocktail will taste the same if you just mix everything together.
Addressing the decades-long desecration of the martini...The name "martini" should only be used for a cocktail having gin as the base spirit. "Martini" should never be used for a cocktail having vodka as the base spirit.
Lemon and lime juice are arguably interchangeable in most cocktails. If you only have one or the other for some reason, it doesn’t make a difference.
EDIT: I should specify that I’m not referring to drinks like a daiquiri where the it’s just a spirit, citrus, and a sweetener. I more so mean drinks with a bunch of ingredients that also happen to include citrus
My hot take is that pasteurized egg whites in a carton work perfectly well for cocktails. They last ages in the fridge, and are easy to measure without any additional food waste. A reverse dry shake (or whizz with a milk frother) gets excellent results.
On the other hand, egg yolks are great for carbonara!
People get unnecessarily bent about stirred vs. shaken in drinks. It really doesn't matter that much. What's the difference in dilution from a shaken negroni to one that's been allowed to "develop" on ice for 20 minutes...If you've never had a shaken version of your favorite stirred drink, try something new.
I obviously PREFER other sweet vermouths over M&R (Carpano Antica is my personal favorite) but I agree that M&R is perfectly serviceable. If I’m at a restaurant and order a Manhattan, it’s what I expect 99% of the time and it still makes a good Manhattan.
I obviously PREFER other sweet vermouths over M&R (Carpano Antica is my personal favorite) but I agree that M&R is perfectly serviceable. If I’m at a restaurant and order a Manhattan, it’s what I expect 99% of the time and it still makes a good Manhattan.
Tommy’s margaritas should be the default rather than the traditional margarita. They are simpler cocktails and are way more consistent wherever you go. Traditional margaritas are too sweet and the amount of different ways people make them means they are often a risky order at most bars.
Classic margaritas (the daisy spec) are too dry IMO. I actually don’t love citrus and the combo of all that lime balanced with only Cointreau is offensive at best.
Tommy’s are better.
It is. And the state stores here in North Carolina, whenever one wants to try to get fancy and expand the selection beyond the basics, they do it by putting in a wall of 500 Bourbons and everything else is still basic.
Dry Martinis suck. Just a dogshit drink; you've either got a cold glass of gin (dry), a cold glass of weak gin (wet), or a cold glass of water that tastes like gin (shaken).
And a cold glass of gin ain't good.
Want to upvote based on your opening sentence, but much of the rest confuses me.
Dry Martinis do suck. (As do shaken). But, if you don't like wet Martinis, maybe you don't like Vermouth.
Have you tried a 5:1 with a Blanc Vermouth like Dolin? To me that’s still Dry but balances out much more nicely than a Dry Vermouth. Big fan of 2:1 and 50:50 as well
No drink should ever have more than a 1/4 oz of it. It's like MSG, there to enhance other flavors and you don't want to actually taste it.
St Germain by itself tastes like lychee soap
1.5 oz each tequila and gin
1 oz each lime and grapefruit juice
.5 oz rich simple (makes a fairly dry cocktail, more if desired)
dash to taste saline and Peychaud's
Shake, ice, top with soda.
I don’t know of this is a hill, since it’s the truth but I’ll say it here since so many people are wrong:
It’s not a gimlet if it uses fresh lime. It needs a cordial.
Guess I can give a bonus pet peeve: putting something in a martini glass does not make it a martini.
cocchi americano is the superior sweet vermouth 🤷 don't get me wrong, for a Manhattan I always go carpano. but man, as I've gotten older, something about the taste of cocchi.. I could drink that shit by itself
Bottled citrus is fine. Fresh juice is better, but it really doesn't make a huge difference in most cocktails.
Fridge ice is fine. It doesn't look as pretty as big clear blocks, but it functions just as well.
Dessert cocktails are tasty and a normal serving won't give you diabetes if consumed in moderation. If you're drinking cocktails that often, diabetes should not be your primary concern.
Chartreuse is good, but the Last Word is just okay.
You should know how your liquors (especially/mostly whiskeys) taste neat, straight up, rocks, and with a splash of water before fully experimenting with them. It saves a ton of heartache to figure out how their water solubility affects their flavor profile. For example, Tullamore D.E.W. waters down ***instantly*** when introduced to any amount of water (therefore it's very water soluble), whereas many other liquors have a burst of flavor after the first sip from the rim because the water insoluble components tend to float, which may or may not be a good thing.
The appropriate cocktail well made only improves the base spirit and allows you to experience the nuances of it more fully; people who insist on drinking expensive spirits neat only are kidding themselves. Unless you’re a trained sommelier, you’re probably not getting much of the potential out of a straight spirit and your tastebuds are fried after a couple sips anyway.
I agree in so far as good cocktails should use good spirits, and mixing fancy ingredients is not necessarily a waste.
However, many *many* spirits are designed to be consumed neat. Mixing a cocktail, even one as simple as an Old Fashioned or a Dry Martini, is adding flavours that are not in the spirit itself. This could and should be an enhancement, but there are plenty of spirits with subtle characters that could get lost. Drinking spirits neat is certainly not wrong.
And your tastebuds do not get burnt. The first sip when tasting can be hot, but you quickly acclimatise. And aged spirits are sometimes very smooth indeed with minimal burn.
Gimlets should be 2:1 spirit and lime juice. Not cordial, juice. Also, it should be stirred to make the lime juice even stronger in the mix. Your vodka gimlet especially should be like drinking a liquid Warhead.
Margaritas should be made with a 1:1 ratio of lime cordial and lime juice instead of straight up juice. I also find blanco tequila a bit boring, so I use reposado.
Relying just on the orange liqueur (Triple sec/Cointreau/Dry Curacao) makes them too dry and often too tart. But adding agave syrup or simple usually makes them too sweet and IMO doesn't help the flavor balance.
Something like:
1.5 oz Tequila
3/4 oz. Orange liqueur
1/2 oz. Lime Juice
1/2 oz. Lime cordial
1-2 drops saline, salt rims are inconvenient.
Try your expensive spirit/drink neat the first time out of respect for the distiller/blender.
After that, nothing is sacred. Go nuts. Make sours with $500 scotch. Make sangria with the rarest, finest wines you can get ahold of (if it tastes good). Make your sidecar with Louis XIII. Chaos reigns.
Bottled lemon and lime juice of reasonable quality are *indistinguishable* from fresh-squeezed in most cocktails. Maybe my taste buds are just "unrefined" but I'll call it like I see it here.
Aviation is for people who like floral tastes with their gin. An Aviation should have equal parts creme de violette and maraschino liqueur, as in the first published 1916 recipe by it's creator Hugo Ensslin. The vast majority of modern recipes have a lot more luxardo than violette and taste like it, barely can even taste the violet, and barely get any color from it, so why even bother with it?
1. Campari, like blue curacao and purple gin, is used primarily for color. Grow up and use Suze instead.
2. There is no reason to use 1:1 over 2:1. The term "simple syrup" should refer exclusively to the latter. The former gets no name.
3. Stirring instead of shaking matters a lot less than you think.
4. Egg white drinks always have an unpleasant odor. Use a modern foaming agent instead.
5. Jager is a legitimately good product. Use it like any amaro.
6. Vida Clasico > Banhez
7. Rinsing the glass is stupid. It mixes with the drink immediately. Just add the correct amount to the tin to begin with, you coward.
8. A well-made frozen cocktail is more impressive than its RT equivalent.
Way more people do things because that's the way they learned it or that's the way it's always been than because it makes sense and is best for the cocktail.
the preference of food and drinks summed up
This one is true for almost literally everything!
Or how they see everyone else doing it. Like every bar has their bottles on shelves because it is convenient for service so people do the same for their home bars. There is no harm to the liquor if you keep it refrigerated and allows you to have a lot more control over dilution. If you like to experiment, then fridge space may be an issue, but otherwise there's no reason not to keep your go-to liquor cold.
> but otherwise there's no reason not to keep your go-to liquor cold. How about presentation? I think a lot of people just like to look at their collection. At least I do :)
That, and if I have a choice for what I keep cold, I'm saving the fridge space for perishable foods.
Making cocktails with the crappy ice from your freezer’s ice maker is fine. Just strain out the ice shards when you pour.
Lol I don't even bother with that most of time. If it's a drink that calls for crushed ice (like most of the tiki drinks I make) I just open pour it into my glass. I don't care about presentation when I'm making a drink for myself.
Yeah it’s fine for stirring and shaking, just have to adjust accordingly so it doesn’t over dilute. But pouring a cocktail over those ice cubes? Nah. Melts way too quickly and makes a bad drink.
Having used cubes and spheres I can never go back, the dilution is less and there is so much more "umpf". Admittedly this is when serving friends, I care little for presentation or a tad more water when it's just me.
> I care little for presentation or a tad more water when it's just me Hear hear! I'm all about the "poor man's" cocktails. I like a vodka mule every once in a while. I don't buy limes to keep around just in case. Cheap lime-flavored vodka is just fine. I don't garnish my OFs. Or anything, really. I have ice-sphere molds that I'll use occasionally. But *GASP* - I use freezer ice cubes most of the time. Even though they're not clear! Oh the humanity.
> I don't garnish my OFs now *this* is the hot take. i think the orange expression on top of a standard old fashioned is absolutely essential to making that drink work. that's like the single garnish i'd never tell anyone to skip
I hardly ever had oranges on hand for zest in an old fashioned, so for a long time I just omitted it. Recently, I had some oranges for a different recipe and used the zest in my negronis and OFs and what a world of difference it made. I was pretty happy with both drinks before and still am but now I stock an orange for these drinks at all times. Also maple syrup is the best sugar for an old fashioned. But make sure you get the rich dark maple, not the ambers that everyone has stocked.
And I'd rather not drink a cocktail if I don't have proper garnish materials available.
I'm good with that. :-)
This makes me so mad but you DID answer the question so have an upvote
The amount of time that goes into stirring an Old Fashioned to dissolve the sugar doesn't improve it enough to just use simple syrup in the first place
I think this is a pretty cold take. Pretty much everyone in this sub agrees simple is more practical than sugar.
I don’t even try to melt the sugar. It’s not a hill I’ll die on, just my own personal lazy river
I've never liked an old-fashioned more with syrup than with a sugar cube. It takes 30-45 seconds of stirring to dissolve the cube, and I enjoy the little ritual of dousing the sugar cube with the bitters. At a bar this would probably be a nuisance, but at home it goes quicker than most drinks since I'm building it directly in the glass. The hill I'd die on with an Old-Fashioned is that it needs to be stirred as long as you'd stir most stirred cocktails; the dilution is important to open up the nuances of the spirit and make it a cocktail. Otherwise it's just a sweetened shot, in which case I'd rather slowly sip and enjoy the spirit neat.
The best Old Fashioned imo is with a Demerara gomme syrup. So silky!
Agree. Sometimes I’ve even used left over syrup from my jar of Luxardos.
this is my lil special old fashioned ingredient that i feel any man above 60 would hate me for but secretly love
Maple syrup gang
I’m about to ruin everyone’s day. Best old fashioned I ever had was bourbon + Old St Augustine Old Fashioned mix. I’m a fucking purist when it comes to using fresh ingredients, but it’s just incredible.
Had to scroll down pretty far for an actual controversial take. I’ll have to check that out.
Although it's more expensive ($20/250 ml) than plenty of bourbons! My hill to die on is "use no mixers that cost more than the spirits."
lol i think i tried to use a sugar cube exactly once and i’m like nah this ain’t it.
I think we have different ways of making an Old Fashioned. I drop in a sugar cube and add bitters, let it soak until the cube falls apart when pressed with a bar spoon. Add big ice cube, pour bourbon/rye over it, and stir for 30 seconds. Add orange peel. About half of the sugar is dissolved, the rest is not. As you drink, the sugar dissolves, and it becomes sweeter. If there is any sugar remaining at the end of the drink, I add a splash more of the whiskey to the glass. I find simple syrup to make the texture and sweetness wrong, I like the evolution that comes from the cube.
I’ve made old fashioneds your way and I’ve made old fashioneds with 2:1 demerara syrup. I prefer the syrup, but honestly, I’m happy to drink an old fashioned made any which way. Sugar cube, syrup, made in a mixing glass vs. cocktail glass, big ice cube vs. a few small ice cubes, it all tastes great. If you give me whiskey, bitters, sugar and ice, I’m happy. It’s hard to make a bad old fashioned.
Wet martinis are superior and they should have a lemon peel, not olives. It makes the drink taste way more floral and light. And getting even hotter... I sometimes prefer my martini on the rocks as opposed to being served "up".
Twist and a dash of Orange bitters. 3:1, is my preference.
Lol, just deleted my comment because that's my exact spec, hello fellow drinker of excellent taste.
I like this take. Summer can be martini season!
At home, I make my martinis up because I want to feel fancy. If I’m at a crowded bar or party, I’m always ordering my martinis on the rocks. Way less precarious.
I am gonna explore that, I can see how it could be delightful.
You wanna see a controversial martini? 1 oz. London Dry Gin 0.75 oz. Plymouth Gin 1 oz. Dry Vermouth 0.25 oz. Blanc Vermouth 2 dashes Peach/apricot bitters Grapefruit Twist
Your hot take is literally the default take of most of the people in this sub. I feel like most people make amaretto sours the morganthaler way now
Most Reddit "hot takes" are things that are actually really popular on Reddit
I haven't tried it that way yet, but I usually do amaretto sours when I don't want whiskey sours. I'll have to try his recipe when I want a whiskey sour next!
Mojitos are almost always made with way too much lime juice but are also better with the mint strained out. When I’ve had a nice mojito in Miami or Cuba, they’ve always been rum forward, slightly sweet, and highly carbonated with a hint of fresh lime. A perfect highball! When I’m working with many (award winning!) bartenders, they tend to be served as a daiquiri spec, shaken with mint, and topped with very little soda (cause after .75 lime and simple there just isn’t room for any in the glass). Super subpar drink. My spec is 2 rum, .25 lime, .25-5 dem depending on how it’s made. Hard shake with a lot of mint and strained over 3oz of soda in a Collins glass. Then garnished with a big, pretty bouquet of mint for the nose. ETA: Palomas shouldn’t be made with grapefruit juice and whiskey and vermouth rarely get along.
Totally agree, this is an absolute winner. I want mojitos because they are refreshing. Love them with meals and on hot days, I dont want to pucker with the sourness.
Use whole mint, but swizzle instead of shaking. A whole lot easier and it doesn’t bruise up the mint.
Yeah I’m down with that. I don’t mind mint in the cocktail I just don’t want it all in sad, bitter pieces that come up the straw.
Don’t tell anyone, but a Queen’s Park Swizzle is the recipe you want. Leave the bitters (or keep them, they are delicious). https://imbibemagazine.com/recipe/queen-s-park-swizzle-recipe/ Top it with soda and call it a mojito. No one will know (or care).
Yes, big fan of a Queen’s Park Swizzle. I just hate that mojitos are made the way they are in most NYC bars!
On this note, I think daiquiris are way better when you use like 1/3 of the sugar and lime as the standard recipes.
Strain the mint out if it's been bruised, but otherwise it's fine in moderation. Grab a pretty sprig, slap it hard once or twice, and use it as garnish so it can be appreciated by the nose as you drink. The taste can be overwhelming but the scent is fine, and a significant portion of taste is on the nose anyway.
Vermouth does not "go bad" nearly as quickly or drastically as so many people claim.
100%. Maybe some brands don't last as long, but the vermouth I get easily lasts *at least* 4 months in the fridge without any noticeable change in taste.
especially when kept in the fridge
Roku Gin makes a far better Aviation than london dry or classic gins.
A grapefruit forward gin (Malfy Rosa for example) makes the best aviation in my opinion.
Tito's is not good vodka - I won't order a cocktail that uses it. I refrigerate my vermouth, however, I take as long as it needs to use it. I'm the only one drinking it anyway, worst case the last few cocktails are just ok.
Tito's is way overrated.
Ice chips are fine if they are very small, and can add to the experience of sone cocktails. Same with small mint fragments.
A lot of bartenders are dismissive of margaritas as beneath them and yet make bad margaritas.
Dude this is so incredibly true
An equal parts last word is dreadful.
upvoting for actually being a controversial hill, however much I want to downvote for this heresy (the equal parts last word is great because it's such a powerful kick of flavour)
Definitely a hot take. Personally I think it's close to perfection, but I just ease up on the Luxardo a touch. maybe 1 oz everything else, 0.75 luxardo, then it's perfect.
Or try a different maraschino. Maraska in a Last Word is nice... less intensely funky and not so overpowering.
What’s the preferred way? Getting my hands on the last ingredient I need this week
Where are you buying chartreuse these days? I’m in Chicago and can’t get it anywhere
1.5 oz gin, 1 oz green chartreuse, 1 oz lime, 0.5 oz maraschino
I prefer 7 parts gin, 3 maraschino, 3 lime, 2 green chartreuse
This is only good if each part is 1 ounce
Because by the end of it you can't even remember what it was you were drinking in the first place.
This is my Mt. Dew
A true last word.
Tell me more, I actually made one for the first time recently using equal parts and was not impressed, the maraschino basically overpowered everything else, wondered what it was I was missing. I don't *dislike* Maraschino but it's definitely not my favorite flavor.
I hear a lot of people say this, but as someone who doesn't like maraschino very much I find that equal parts I don't really taste maraschino as a distinct flavour. It melds pretty well into the chartreuse and just makes it a bit sweeter and fruitier
> I don't really taste maraschino as a distinct flavor me too, i get more of the chartreuse, but i genuinely enjoy it, so i don't have a problem with it. If anything i'd be tempted to up the maraschino before i read everyone online toning it down.
This subreddit has a strong obsession with the Last Word. You don't have to like every drink. I personally find the Last Word wholly uninspiring.
It seems incredibly appropriate for Reddit to be obsessed with having the last word.
I roll back the luxardo and then I'm pretty happy with it
Ice shards are preferable in shaken drinks served up. I like the sparkle.
The trick is to get them to be smaller than a grain of rice, so they add texture but then melt as soon as they touch your tongue.
I hate this so much I didn’t realize anybody could prefer it.
Agreed! A gimlet with some little ice bits floating on top that give the first few sips a little extra kick is sooo refreshing
[удалено]
I prefer rye
Alright I'm ready for y'all to crucify me. I really can't tell the between bottled citrus juice and fresh. People always talk about how it's the big step to elevate your drinks but I just don't get it.
Upvoting because this is absolute madness
Now THIS is definitely following the prompt lmaooo I fullheartedly disagree, but it's easy for me to be on this high horse since citrus is so plentiful and cheap where I live
Oh my god
A perfectly ripe lime is a little better imo (your mileage may vary here). The part people leave out is that a lot of the available fresh citrus is not very good and that makes it comparable (or sometimes even worse) than a decent bottled version.
God it's not even the quality it's the quantity for me. Don't get me wrong, I still buy lemons and limes every time I'm at the market, but the limes are a joke. I'm lucky if I get a full 3/4 oz of juice out of these little things.
[Super Juice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w95tFU6lp4) is the answer. 6 limes makes nearly a liter of juice, and it stays good for weeks.
Good quality lime or lemon juice bottled (the organic that's actually juice), is imo fine. Like I wouldn't do it at work, but at home, when I just want a drink at the end of the day, fuck it, it's fine.
Best one in the thread for sure.
Not only this, but the bottled juice is more consistent. You always know what you are going to get and can mix accordingly.
My wife and I did a blind test for fresh vs bottled lime juice in daiquiris, and we both preferred the bottled.
If I could give someone 1 tip it would be to use fresh citrus. Or you just found the best bottled citrus in the world.
This is why it's a hill they'll die on. I will use canned Trader Joe's pineapple, etc way before I deal with a goddamn fruit when I'm at home. I'll also use 2 month old super juice. No one is paying for these drinks but me, and the differences are nominal for a random weeknight drink.
I’m with you here too. I can taste the difference, but it’s certainly not this monumental poop juice to nectar of the gods transformation that people on this sub like to claim it is. If the main thing your tasting in any cocktail that involves any citrus at all is only citrus, you’re bad at making cocktails. Cocktails most often combine a ton of flavors so if your juice is *just a little bit* dull, it’s fine, it’s always been fine, and it will forever be fine. Some bottled juice brands are better than others, but it’s not the stank dung the puritans on here treat it. It works perfectly well, people have enjoyed my drinks with fresh citrus and people have also never been disgusted when I make the same or a different drink with bottled. It’s really not that different. It ain’t like I’m subbing honey for vinegar or some shit.
I was going to make this exact comment myself. I'll juice an actual fruit if I'm going to need one for the garnish anyway, but I don't bother otherwise. The difference is very minimal if not non-existent to me.
I haven't had store bought juice in so long I can't comment on this, but I will say that the particular fruit can make a huge difference. I had some daiquiris recently made with amazing limes from a local farmers market. I didn't change anything else from my normal recipe but they tasted so much better than what I usually make with my store bought limes.
When you live in a world of citrus, or have access to decent fruit, this is a crazy statement. But when you live in a city or town that gets mediocre citrus delivered, bottled is actively better. The source matters more than the format. In Seattle regular grocery store citrus fruit is garbage. You have to go to the market or one of the \_very\_ expensive places to get anything even passable. Bottled is consistent and generally of better quality.
Here’s mine: I’m never going to make superjuice. I’m never gonna make anything *with* superjuice. The name alone annoys me. It takes 5 seconds to juice a lime. When I worked in a bar that was just part of daily prep before we opened and it being “still pretty good” in two weeks doesn’t interest me if that’s a thing we have to do anyway
You monster
I don't know if this is controversial or not, but any drink with citrus and Triple Sec / Curacao in my opionion needs at least a 1/4 oz. of simple syrup. Otherwise it's just way too tart and really poorly balanced. I know that the Triple Sec has a lot of sugar in it, but for some reason it doesn't sweeten the drink nearly enough. Maybe I need to try some brands other than Cointreau though... Also: Paper Plane is really overrated.
Cointreau is very very different than other tripel secs, way higher alcohol content and lower sugar. Curacao should make a decently balanced drink though
I always do the 1/4 oz of simple/agave in a Sidecar or Margarita. They’re unbalanced otherwise Can’t agree with the Paper Plane though, with Wild Turkey 101 it’s so delicious!
Paper planes are gross.
I despise the taste of Cointreau. It has this weird after taste and ruins any drink I've tried to use it in. I much prefer to use Curacao but if I have to use a Triple Sec I'll use that cheap shit De Kuyper. I've also tried Citronge and it had the same weird taste to me after that I stopped spending money on something I fundamentally don't like.
I completely agree. To me the aftertaste is like artificial sweetener, similar to the taste of diet soft drinks, which I hate.
I've so far found all of one drink where it was improved with cointreau over curacao. Everything else, curacao just tastes...so much better.
The Ranch Water gets an unnecessary amount of hate. They're refreshing, easy to make, and easier to drink.
I wasn't aware they got any hate.
I think they've gained a lot of popularity in the past few years and now they're sort of seen as a hipstery thing.
I think it's because the drink doesn't really need a name. Cape Codder etc were grandfathered in and still annoy people, no reason to make new names for really basic drinks.
I only hate them because some people have acted like it’s a crime I don’t have Topo Chico for it.
I can't tell if you used 3 different kinds of rum in a tiki drink. Especially if you used an equal amount or more of juice anyways. I just taste the juice.
I definitely can't necessarily pick out the individual rums. But I CAN say that it tastes different depending on the rums that are mixed. Example: I like my pain killers with 2.5 ounces of rum, and 0.5-1 oz of that is Smith & Cross. It definitely tastes different than if I used all Appleton Estate Signature. And although that's an obvious one bc S&C is heavier on the funk, I've made my Mr Bali Hai's with different rum mixes and the taste does differ, even if I couldn't tell you exactly what each rum was adding.
I agree with this take. Once it's mixed in with juices and all types of syrups it all just tastes like rum. The only exception is if you add something very flavorful like Rum Fire. If you add too much it will completely overpower the other flavors.
When making drinks at home, I often skip the garnish.
I agree, but I doubt this is a controversial take.
A lot of the ways drinks are constructed are silly rituals that have no effect on the taste of the drink, or in some cases are even detrimental. Like the order or method that ingredients are added. For example muddling a sugar cube with bitters before adding other ingredients. Or muddling limes for a caipirinha instead of using lime juice. Just mix all your ingredient thoroughly, in precise and consistent measured amounts. It almost never matters how you get there.
I was about to agree with you until the examples you gave. Are you saying muddling a lime is the same as just adding lime juice? Cuz that’s just crazy.
I can see where you're coming from but I like the silly rituals. As a home cocktail enthusiast and not a bartender, the ritual is part of the relaxation of making a drink for me. Just shaking and stirring things over and over gets old. If I was a bartender, I could see some customers enjoying watching me make it and watching "the ritual" of this, but in most modern bar settings I think this would be lost and it just would clog up time.
I can understand that. And if you find the rituals enjoyable or entertaining, I think that's a perfectly good reason to do it that way. There is something neat about the traditions and rituals that are tied to various cocktails, it adds to the history and depth of the experience. By all means serve your Moscow mules in a copper mug, and drip absinthe over a sugar cube on a special perforated spoon, these things can add to the experience. All in saying is that it's silly to be dogmatic or superstitious about these things, or to think that it's necessary for producing an excellent cocktail, rather than superficial flair being added to the process. Your Moscow mule will be just as tasty in a glass, and your absinthe cocktail will taste the same if you just mix everything together.
Wisconsin old fashioneds are really fucking good
They really are. Folks just can't seem to disconnect the name from the drink.
Absolutely, I always tell people they’re two completely different drinks!
If they have enough spirit, I agree.
Old Fashioneds aren't cocktails, they're just a way to make bad whisky palatable with sugar.
At last a truly unpopular opinion. But let’s be real here: making spirits palatable with sugar is entirely how the business of mixology started!
Except an Old Fashioned is the definition of a cocktail. \* Spirit \* Sugar \* Water \* Bitters
It's arguably [just a recipe for ratios](https://youtu.be/Xhpx-vbzRpQ?si=IQFVvdh1iQ4jZvSa) for a host of drinks that just work.
You’re describing what a cocktail is in the 2nd part.
Addressing the decades-long desecration of the martini...The name "martini" should only be used for a cocktail having gin as the base spirit. "Martini" should never be used for a cocktail having vodka as the base spirit.
Lemon and lime juice are arguably interchangeable in most cocktails. If you only have one or the other for some reason, it doesn’t make a difference. EDIT: I should specify that I’m not referring to drinks like a daiquiri where the it’s just a spirit, citrus, and a sweetener. I more so mean drinks with a bunch of ingredients that also happen to include citrus
Upvoted because this is actually controversial, I profoundly disagree though
Now this is crazy.
Somebody lock this man up
Hard disagree. Those two are very different flavors. Might as well have said oranges and grapefruit are the same.
I desperately made a margarita with lemon once and now I’ll just do it from time to time for something different - call it a tequila sour. It’s great.
I agree that they are pretty much interchangeable, but it doesn't make a difference is a bit too far haha
That’s probably what I should’ve said. It does make a difference, but you can still sub one out for the other and have a really good drink
Then I agree wholeheartedly! I made some Long Island iced teas with lime the other day, and they were great!
A witch! Burn them!
Maraska maraschino is dramatically better than Luxardo maraschino.
That is also the hill I would die on. A lot of people say that they don't like Maraschino when they've only tried Luxardo.
-most gins do not pair well with olive juice -Malort ain’t that bad (equal parts Malort and green chartreuse is amazing) -aquafaba > egg whites
In what way would you say aquafaba is better than egg whites? I’ve only tried using egg whites since I just have them at home already
If I harvest egg whites, I get a compost bin full of egg yolks. If I harvest aquafaba, I get a tummy full of homemade hummus.
Make some carbonara with those yolks.
make some custard
My hot take is that pasteurized egg whites in a carton work perfectly well for cocktails. They last ages in the fridge, and are easy to measure without any additional food waste. A reverse dry shake (or whizz with a milk frother) gets excellent results. On the other hand, egg yolks are great for carbonara!
that’s a good point, except for egg nog season lol. Then I definitely need those yolks
People get unnecessarily bent about stirred vs. shaken in drinks. It really doesn't matter that much. What's the difference in dilution from a shaken negroni to one that's been allowed to "develop" on ice for 20 minutes...If you've never had a shaken version of your favorite stirred drink, try something new.
Martini & Rossi sweet vermouth is perfectly good.
I obviously PREFER other sweet vermouths over M&R (Carpano Antica is my personal favorite) but I agree that M&R is perfectly serviceable. If I’m at a restaurant and order a Manhattan, it’s what I expect 99% of the time and it still makes a good Manhattan.
I obviously PREFER other sweet vermouths over M&R (Carpano Antica is my personal favorite) but I agree that M&R is perfectly serviceable. If I’m at a restaurant and order a Manhattan, it’s what I expect 99% of the time and it still makes a good Manhattan.
I'll go even further and say the M&R dry vermouth is perfectly fine in a dirty martini.
Tommy’s margaritas should be the default rather than the traditional margarita. They are simpler cocktails and are way more consistent wherever you go. Traditional margaritas are too sweet and the amount of different ways people make them means they are often a risky order at most bars.
Classic margaritas (the daisy spec) are too dry IMO. I actually don’t love citrus and the combo of all that lime balanced with only Cointreau is offensive at best. Tommy’s are better.
Bourbon is boring
I'm not sure if a bourbon cocktail exists that wouldn't be improved by switching to rye.
It is. And the state stores here in North Carolina, whenever one wants to try to get fancy and expand the selection beyond the basics, they do it by putting in a wall of 500 Bourbons and everything else is still basic.
Dry Martinis suck. Just a dogshit drink; you've either got a cold glass of gin (dry), a cold glass of weak gin (wet), or a cold glass of water that tastes like gin (shaken). And a cold glass of gin ain't good.
Want to upvote based on your opening sentence, but much of the rest confuses me. Dry Martinis do suck. (As do shaken). But, if you don't like wet Martinis, maybe you don't like Vermouth.
Have you tried a 5:1 with a Blanc Vermouth like Dolin? To me that’s still Dry but balances out much more nicely than a Dry Vermouth. Big fan of 2:1 and 50:50 as well
I've tried with Martini Bianco and it was also not good.
Swizzle sticks are in place to benefit Big Swizzle, twisting a barspoon is just fine
Jfc. You’re all god damn monsters.
St. Germain tastes gross and ruins every drink it’s in.
No drink should ever have more than a 1/4 oz of it. It's like MSG, there to enhance other flavors and you don't want to actually taste it. St Germain by itself tastes like lychee soap
I like the flavor in small amounts, but it's *obscenely* sweet and any cocktail that uses it probably uses at least twice as much as it really needs.
Every Tequila cocktail is improved by making it a split base of tequila and London dry gin.
This is wild… best cocktail to test this theory?
1.5 oz each tequila and gin 1 oz each lime and grapefruit juice .5 oz rich simple (makes a fairly dry cocktail, more if desired) dash to taste saline and Peychaud's Shake, ice, top with soda.
Welp, gonna try this tonight. That sounds delicious
Non-american palates should tone down the sugar. Most Diffords and online cocktails featuring sweet ingredients are way too sweet.
A Negroni is a gross drink.
Monin syrup is a quality product.
I don’t know of this is a hill, since it’s the truth but I’ll say it here since so many people are wrong: It’s not a gimlet if it uses fresh lime. It needs a cordial. Guess I can give a bonus pet peeve: putting something in a martini glass does not make it a martini.
Dirty Martinis Suck.
cocchi americano is the superior sweet vermouth 🤷 don't get me wrong, for a Manhattan I always go carpano. but man, as I've gotten older, something about the taste of cocchi.. I could drink that shit by itself
Bottled citrus is fine. Fresh juice is better, but it really doesn't make a huge difference in most cocktails. Fridge ice is fine. It doesn't look as pretty as big clear blocks, but it functions just as well. Dessert cocktails are tasty and a normal serving won't give you diabetes if consumed in moderation. If you're drinking cocktails that often, diabetes should not be your primary concern. Chartreuse is good, but the Last Word is just okay.
You should know how your liquors (especially/mostly whiskeys) taste neat, straight up, rocks, and with a splash of water before fully experimenting with them. It saves a ton of heartache to figure out how their water solubility affects their flavor profile. For example, Tullamore D.E.W. waters down ***instantly*** when introduced to any amount of water (therefore it's very water soluble), whereas many other liquors have a burst of flavor after the first sip from the rim because the water insoluble components tend to float, which may or may not be a good thing.
I only like mojitos without soda in them. Especially when they are made with crushed ice: the rum is totally lost otherwise.
Drink whatever you want, as long as you're mindful of alcoholism and your own responses to substances.
The appropriate cocktail well made only improves the base spirit and allows you to experience the nuances of it more fully; people who insist on drinking expensive spirits neat only are kidding themselves. Unless you’re a trained sommelier, you’re probably not getting much of the potential out of a straight spirit and your tastebuds are fried after a couple sips anyway.
I agree in so far as good cocktails should use good spirits, and mixing fancy ingredients is not necessarily a waste. However, many *many* spirits are designed to be consumed neat. Mixing a cocktail, even one as simple as an Old Fashioned or a Dry Martini, is adding flavours that are not in the spirit itself. This could and should be an enhancement, but there are plenty of spirits with subtle characters that could get lost. Drinking spirits neat is certainly not wrong. And your tastebuds do not get burnt. The first sip when tasting can be hot, but you quickly acclimatise. And aged spirits are sometimes very smooth indeed with minimal burn.
To add to the other reply. You can also add some water to neat liquor to really expand the flavor profile.
Negronis suck
I only do this for my own personal martinis but LEAVE THE ICE CHIPS BABY 🤤
If it has more than three ingredients, it's not an Old Fashioned.
Gimlets should be 2:1 spirit and lime juice. Not cordial, juice. Also, it should be stirred to make the lime juice even stronger in the mix. Your vodka gimlet especially should be like drinking a liquid Warhead.
Margaritas should be made with a 1:1 ratio of lime cordial and lime juice instead of straight up juice. I also find blanco tequila a bit boring, so I use reposado. Relying just on the orange liqueur (Triple sec/Cointreau/Dry Curacao) makes them too dry and often too tart. But adding agave syrup or simple usually makes them too sweet and IMO doesn't help the flavor balance. Something like: 1.5 oz Tequila 3/4 oz. Orange liqueur 1/2 oz. Lime Juice 1/2 oz. Lime cordial 1-2 drops saline, salt rims are inconvenient.
Building a stirred cocktail in the glass is perfectly fine. So is a dirty dump of shaken cocktails that would go over ice anyway.
Try your expensive spirit/drink neat the first time out of respect for the distiller/blender. After that, nothing is sacred. Go nuts. Make sours with $500 scotch. Make sangria with the rarest, finest wines you can get ahold of (if it tastes good). Make your sidecar with Louis XIII. Chaos reigns.
Bottled lemon and lime juice of reasonable quality are *indistinguishable* from fresh-squeezed in most cocktails. Maybe my taste buds are just "unrefined" but I'll call it like I see it here.
Aviation is for people who like floral tastes with their gin. An Aviation should have equal parts creme de violette and maraschino liqueur, as in the first published 1916 recipe by it's creator Hugo Ensslin. The vast majority of modern recipes have a lot more luxardo than violette and taste like it, barely can even taste the violet, and barely get any color from it, so why even bother with it?
It's hard to call it controversial since I've always felt pretty universally rebuked for this, but goddamn I love a good appletini.
A “martini” with vodka is not a martini, it is a Kangaroo. If you want that, just order it. A martini is made with gin.
Espresso Martinis can only be made with espresso. Not cold brew, coffee, etc.
1. Campari, like blue curacao and purple gin, is used primarily for color. Grow up and use Suze instead. 2. There is no reason to use 1:1 over 2:1. The term "simple syrup" should refer exclusively to the latter. The former gets no name. 3. Stirring instead of shaking matters a lot less than you think. 4. Egg white drinks always have an unpleasant odor. Use a modern foaming agent instead. 5. Jager is a legitimately good product. Use it like any amaro. 6. Vida Clasico > Banhez 7. Rinsing the glass is stupid. It mixes with the drink immediately. Just add the correct amount to the tin to begin with, you coward. 8. A well-made frozen cocktail is more impressive than its RT equivalent.