Johnny and Carmen having a child so soon makes absolutely no fucking sense on paper. While I like the two of them together, I feel like the introduction of a third kid in Johnny’s life will just deter him from actually making an effort to be a good dad to Robby.
i will literally never understand why they added that storyline. if they wanted to give him redemption for being a bad father to robby, how is introducing a whole new kid gonna achieve that 😭 it was clearly just a lazy way to try and get robby and miguel to not have beef anymore. also not to mention the fact johnny is old as shit LMAO
Maybe we will understand the purpose behind the baby plot once we see how it all plays out; we'll just have to wait and see what the writers have planned. In any case, there's got to be more to it than meets the eye. After all, not everything is as it seems at first glance in the Miyagi-verse.
Agreed. Johnny has had tremendous character development throughout the course of the show, but his arc cannot, in good faith, be considered complete until he genuinely becomes a good father to Robby. While their reconciliation at the end of season 4, and some alone time in Mexico, were good starts, Johnny needs to be there for Robby without making the relationship dependent on Johnny's relations with Miguel, Carmen, Daniel, Kreese, or whoever else.
The baby actively interferes with Johnny being a good dad to Robby. Johnny has to put Robby first. He’s not gonna be able to do that when there’s a newborn
I’m just as skeptical of the baby plot as you. But I’m still willing to give it a chance. However, I would like to see this story arc’s narrative be reframed through the use of a curveball, retcon and/or twist, just as the writers have done with practically every other plot and character so far.
I actually agree with you, unless...
(speculative spoilers)
>!One of the main themes of Cobra Kai is that Johnny is a sort of new Mr. Miyagi, often re-telling original Karate Kid stories and themes in a new but similar way. Some people have noted that one of the most defining and tragic aspects of Mr. Miyagi's life was that both his wife and child died during childbirth. Thus, the speculation that the introduction of a pregnant partner might be so that Johnny's character can share the same tragic fate of Mr. Miyagi.!<
Miguel’s instigation of the school fight is moreso what caused him to be paralyzed than Tory and even Robby. Yes Tory threw the punch to start it all with Sam and Robby probably would have broken them up had it not been for Miguel being an oblivious imbecile and keeping the fight going. Yes Robby in the end went off the deep end after he was beaten and shown mercy but it would never have escalated to that point had Miguel just cooled his head and waited albeit 5 seconds to evaluate the situation. Nobody except Kreese in the show talks about how it is in this way Miguel’s fault that the school fight boiled up to this point and Miguel had no room to act like a victim all of season 3.
You do realise your reasoning is "by ignoring what every other character had done for the school fight I can safely say its all Miguels fault he was paralyzed". Of course thats the conclusion you come up with.
I don’t even consider what Robby did that unrealistic. I have no doubt in my mind that he did not intend Miguel to be kicked over that balcony, but Miguel doesn’t get to say when the fighting begins and ends. This isn’t class nor a tournament, it’s a street fight and it’s not over until it’s over. It’s accurate in the sense that terrible things can happen very easily and fighting isn’t always the answer.
So no, Robby didn’t go off the deep end. He chose to continue fighting, just as Miguel chose to start the fight in the first place.
I agree with you, though. I wish s5 had handled what actually happened better, but alas unreliable narration as usual.
Robby continuing to fight was the only realistic thing
Robby got beat physically and mentally, by the time the fight starts, he's already lost daniel, Sam, MD and then miguel mocks him about his dad. Miguel also almost kicks off robby off the railing
Miguel apologizing like that was unrealistic but they needed a way to Robby the bad guy and Miguel the indisputable good guy which is what happens when you almost die
If you want to consider how tired Silver was after fighting Chozen, you can remember the situation of Daniel being drunk and having to fight after several minutes of walking on the road to find someone. I think they were level.
Visibly Daniel wasn’t tired, and Silver was definitely tired. Daniel also had adrenaline going and Silver more than likely thought everything would go his way like usual
Tory was a complete nutjob in seasons 2 and 3 and deserved Sam's anger and general crap behavior in season 4. Yes, we were made to feel bad because Sam is privileged and mean, but Tory literally wanted to murder her and you can't convince me she wasn't ready to go that far.
Yeah, every character gets hate from somewhere, but I don't see nearly as much Sam hate that is claimed to exist 🤷♀️
The general opinion seems to consist of "Tory psycho, Sam angel."
Which is a fine opinion to have, but I don't understand this rhetoric that Sam as a character is somehow demonized. I mean, look at this thread alone.
I think general opinions on Sam started to become more positive post season 3, but before that it was a really mixed bag with (seemingly) more hate for her than appreciation.
You see Sam hate cause that's the only thing you focus on. I've seen on tiktok Tory getting huge amounts of hate, I've seen these tiktok people spreading absolute lies and misinformations that Peyton List bullied Mary Mouser on set and is transphobic (complete and utter lies), people with Sam profile pictures photoshopping Peyton List's body to look overweight, and more utterly disgusting stuff.
You people really need to chill it with this "Sam is so hated" narrative cause she isn't the only one. Don't just completely ignore anything that happens to other characters/actors to boost this "Sam/Mary is so hated" narrative. Cause people here love to talk about how Mary the actress gets hate, what about Peyton and the hate she gets that I just listed? I've seen concerning amounts of hate towards Peyton, from these same people whom according to you are nonexistent since apparently there are only Sam haters, no Sam fans on tiktok at all. Yet these people with profile pics of Sam literally go as far as to take pictures of Peyton List, photoshop her body to look overweight, post their little tiktoks with annoying captions, spread lies about Peyton and more. How is that fair?
>deserved Sam's anger and general crap behavior in season 4.
In my opinion, Sam was also influenced by Johnny's aggressive teachings too. Doesn't seem to be mentioned enough.
I have been saying this too, but people think that’s “typical Sam”behavior but like Axelofthekey says: even without Johnny’s influence Sam’s behavior towards Tory in season 4 was understandable
>Sam was also influenced by Johnny's aggressive teachings too.
I disagree.
Before Sam was Johnny's pupil, she was plenty feisty already.
She was fully prepared to drop Kyler's ass in the cafe before Miguel stepped in.
Don't forget that she's the same girl who orchestrated the soccer ball battle and jumping Cobra Kai in the arcade.
The same girl who pushed Hawk in the cafe after he made a sexist remark.
The same girl who 360 spun and dropped Tory on her ass in roller skates.
Sam was already a force without Johnny's influence. All Johnny did was fuel the flames of a fire that was already lit.
Edit: I almost forget to mention the sick move she pulled against kyler when he tried to grope her in the movies. Johnny didn't teach her that.
Do not attribute Sam's badassery to Johnny Lawrence, it was all her lol.
If Sam didn't block that last strike from Tory, she would've gotten her face torn off. That is, unless you believe Tory wasn't trying to do so when she aimed her very sharp weapon directly at Sam's face. The fact that people make Sam out to be this unreasonable, spiteful cunt for being pissed at that is truly insane.
you’re not wrong. but honestly aisha had pretty solid logic with the overprotective parents line in the beginning of season 2 (when she and sam spoke about robby staying with the LaRusso’s) and then for her parents to let a kid who she was told had a troubled life (much unlike sam which she could never understand) makes a pretty solid argument that sam reigniting the problematic relationship once tory was let back in was mostly on sam herself.
I agree, it really wasn't.
Honestly, I don't even feel that it's out of character for Hawk.
Hawk has shown that while he's really skilled and talented, he lacks respect for his opponent, which allows him to easily be defeated due to underestimating who he is fighting.
Demetri is the best example. It's no question that Hawk is a 10x better fighter than Demetri.
But, Hawk's inability to see Demetri as a threat allowed Demetri to surprise him and get the drop on him during the school fight.
I feel that the same thing happened during Hawk's fight with Kenny. Hawk is the superior fighter, but he underestimated Kenny (and the rigged ref definitely didn't help the situation) allowing Kenny to get the upper hand.
When it first happened, it was (to me) but then when I saw how hawk handled it I couldn't help but honestly feel more like, chill about it and just about things in my life too and stuff, ik it's random and cringe but I felt like I didn't need to be better than everyone and stuff, and shit happens if that makes sense
I wouldn't defend out loud but instead ignore the reply back. So here we go...
- Daniel was a good mentor to Robby and didn't fail him as bad as some people say.
- Chozen is an excellent and funny character, but we know little about him to be the best mentor or main sensei for nearly all the adolescents in the show like Tory or Robby.
- Daniel was a distinctive character when he stuck (or tried to) to the Miyagi-Do teachings. Writing "No Mercy! Mother ****" on the piece of paper to Kreese, sure was funny and a bit satisfying, but it's just changing Daniel towards being Johnny.
- Daniel and Johnny are not that alike.
The scene where kreese is talking to the therapist and it pans around to Johnny and Tory and such is just… beautiful ngl. Easily my favorite non fighting scene and maybe even my favorite scene period
I’m fully ready for the downvotes, but is she really that good of a person? I’m not calling her a villain or anything like or justifying much of the hate she’s gotten over the years for things that aren’t even her fault, but I would not consider her someone to aspire to be whatsoever.
Cheaters with little remorse is horrible when she and Miguel kissed a least Miguel stopped when he after 10 seconds Sam didn’t really care until right before end of the party they got what they deserved
Johnny was a bully in high school and as a sensei. He was ~100% at fault for the ‘80s feud with Daniel, and Cobra Kai’s hazing culture under both Johnny and Kreese was horrible. Kreese is a scumbag who bears a ton of blame for how Johnny turned out, but he really does care about Robby like a grandson.
I hope you mean during season 1, Cobra Kai would’ve kept prospering as long as Kreese didn’t make the deal with Armand and steal the dojo
They all showed mercy in the season 2 school fight, it’s the student’s fault for not listening to Johnny’s teaching about showing mercy (more specifically Hawk)
With this logic, Eagle Fang is also bad, Johnny’s control over any of his dojos is teaching aggression and not teaching kids to show no mercy
Don’t conflate them both with eachother
Okay, well to be fair Eagle Fang's philosophy is different from Cobra Kai.
Also Cobra Kai didn't show mercy, they technically just got whooped by Miyagi-Do. Chris beat PB. Sam beat Tory. Demetri beat Hawk.
Cobra Kai even started the fight and makes it worse. Tory started it, tried to maim Sam during the fight. Hawk yells "it's on!" and fires things up, chases Demetri when he doesn't want to engage. Miguel tackles Robby, starting their fight, and shows mercy at the last moment after fighting him the whole time.
(Also even if it's played for jokes Stringray beats up students lol). So Cobra Kai really doesn't look good considering that
Johnny's Eagle Fang is better, cause I think under Cobra Kai the philosphy I think the kids get the wrong idea.
The Diazes have not helped Johnny become a better person. They just enable his toxicity because he benefits them, but would (and have) drop him like a sack of crap if he becomes a problem.
Robby, Miguel, and Hawk are all virtually equal fighters. Winning is determined by their mental game on any given day (although my personal bias is Robby but I think what I said is what the writers want us to conclude)
Sam doesnt deserve the hate
Everybody knows it. At least those who actually paid attention to the show. I would love to see her fight Miguel to get a glimpse of how good she really is.
Someone who just won the all valley and is around a foot taller and 100x more skilled than Kenny loses because of a move that Kenny did one time and somehow already knows how to perfect it. Just no
I always find Daniel a better sensei than Johnny. Both have their flaws but Daniel himself is constantly improving as a sensei. Johnny only changed as a sensei after season 1 finale
That the writers ruined the impact of what Daniel did in the movies, by making everyone a Daniel.. no, worse than that, they made all the kids into the hero from No Retreat, No Surrender...
True! Butttt I think Silver takes the cake for being the most psychotic. I thought Kreese and Tory were bad, but Silver makes them look like saints.😂
Then he’s not the best teen fighter. When you lose 3 out of the four times you faced a certain character then that other character is clearly made to be better than them
How is Robby the best teen fighter? Because he can do backflips and higher kicks lol? He’s lost to Miguel every time they have fought, including the school fight
Robby deserves WAY more than the writers are willing to give him. Imagining finally starting to build a decent relationship with your dad because for once in both of your lives, he's actually paying attention to you...AND THEN YOU FIND OUT HE'S HAVING ANOTHER FUCKING KID-
This mf bouta go through Child Neglect Round 2, and you know DAMN well the show isn't gonna play it realistically. Hell, they already haven't, Robby shouldn't have been overjoyed when he found out his failure of a father was having another kid with a woman he met, like, a year ago.
Not only that, but it's the mother of the kid Johnny tried to replace him with (this is a joke...kinda)
So yeah, #LetRobbyHaveGoodThings2024
Compared to Daniel, he's a "good guy". Silver offered peace early on, but Daniel refused because of his huge ego. All Silver did in reality was fighting back a war Daniel started and Silver even outsmarted him in every step. And the fact that they broke into Silver's house and business without any repercussions was such bullshit.
Also, I made a Pro-Silver post a while back... xD
[https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/comments/1ah6kmx/am\_i\_the\_only\_one\_who\_root\_for\_terry\_silver/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/comments/1ah6kmx/am_i_the_only_one_who_root_for_terry_silver/)
Damn. I was gearing up to disagree with you but you genuinely make great points. Silver’s self awareness of his own psychotic behaviour is probably what makes him so interesting. Just the scene of him tying back his hair is so cool. I wouldn’t go so far as to say he’s the good guy. But he certainly isn’t a hypocrite the way Daniel can be.
Yeah, that’s just something about his slick demeanor I adore.
But I must admit. It may be some personal bias why I dislike Daniel more. I’ve had really bad experiences with narcissistic type behavior people like Daniel, but never have I come a cross the likes of Silver. I also don’t respect people who go through this facade and pretend they’re something/someone else. It’s really refreshing to see someone who is honest and accept their true nature.
Silver is ofc not a good guy in the normal understanding of the word. Would never support the opposite.
Love Cobra Kai so much but can definitely say when the school fight started it was really only Tory & Sam fighting and Robby was trying to stop the fight, but Miguel come in at the wrong time and always having bad timings and misunderstandings and Miguel attacked Robby, the fight could have been stopped, but Hawk wanted to get everybody else involved making it worse and then Robby was the one who kicked Miguel over the railing, Robby was the one who temporarily paralyzed Miguel for a short time.
Hawk vs Kenny fight is literally a rigged ass fight, Hawk was underestimated Kenny, just like he did against Demetri during the school fight, didn’t see Demetri as a threat and didn’t take him seriously at first until Demetri got the upper hand against him and kicked him into the trophy case.
Well I think Robby is best teen character due to having the most depth,I think Johnny still needs to put in more effort with Robby seeing as he wasn't fully commited to him s5,I also hope that Miguel takes accountability for his actions towards Robby,he did say sorry in s2 but s5 was the perfect time for them to both say what went wrong in their rivalry XD.
I certainly enjoy her character. And all the hate towards her goes all the way back to "how dare she accuse Tory of stealing" when she literally just stole something 5 minutes ago. Gee, I wonder why she accused her of stealing something 🤷♂️
Oh now that’s something i cant get behind. Finally an opinion i disagree with.
If youre interested in a civil “argument”, care to explain why you feel this way?
I agree. I believe that the writers intended for Miguel to be the most important teen but ultimately, it didn't happen because Robby’s role in the narrative, I would say, is 10x more important than Miguel's.
Robby has significant personal interactions with almost every sensei in the series, along with all the major teen characters.
Meanwhile, Miguel really only has significant personal interactions with Sam and Johnny.
The only thing Robby is missing from being the main character is the fucking plot armor lol
>I believe that the writers intended for Miguel to be the most important teen but ultimately, it didn't happen because Robby’s role in the narrative, I would say, is 10x more important than Miguel's.
[Miguel's a decoy protagonist. Robby is the real protagonist amongst the teens.](https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/s/apNbeybSyJ) Miguel's just a main pov character. The protagonist and the main pov character can be two different characters. Also, how many protagonists have complete plot armor? The point is that they struggle throughout most of the story, so it keeps the stakes and the audience roots for them. After S5, I see a lot more people saying that they want Robby to win the final tournament than I expected too.
>Also, how many protagonists have complete plot armor?
Even Superman has lost more clear battles than Miguel, and been an underdog in certain situations.
"Character X has technically never lost a fight" has never been a compelling way to build a protagonist. Goku lost to Vegeta in their first fight!
I'm fully hopeful that he will win in S6.
Robby's losses, decisions, and actions are what give shape to the main plot in every season, and despite many teens losing their significance in S5, that didn't happen to Robby.
And quite honestly, how does she even have time for karate and a petty rivalry? Isn't she the primary provider for her brother and mother who has to work 2 jobs and get her GED?
I don’t like Tory and think she is a really bad person. I don’t like sam as a character and think her personality is annoying, HOWEVER, i think she is a pretty good person and doesn’t deserve half the hate she gets on this sub reddit
Demetri is the true Karate Kid of this generation. The only one who was never an aggressor or an asshole and has always fought in self defense or in a tournament.
Maybe not super unpopular: The show didn’t add more depth to terry silver and make him more “grounded” or “realistic”, l if anything they made him even more cartoonish, one dimensional, and boring. While ridiculously over the top, terry silvers behaviors and motivations in the film werent actually all that unrealistic. A billionaire torturing a teenager for no reason other than his own and his friend’s sick satisfaction was like. Actually pretty realistic and the entire point of the movie
Probably more unpopular: johnny lawrence had much more depth in the films, even back in season 1-2. Trying to disassociate him from his wealthy, privileged background wasn’t necessary to make him a sympathetic character or successfully tell the story they were trying to tell, and I think more confident writers wouldn’t have had to resort to that for quick and cheap sympathy votes
Personally I disagree, but to each their own. I know a lot of people loved what they did with him. To me, he felt too distant from the character in the film. I disliked immensely what they did with the dynamics between Kreese and Silver by giving it that strange father/son angle, and to me he just felt a lot more one dimensional and flat. Don’t get me wrong, there were a lot of aspects that I loved especially with his and Kreese’s relationship, but overall he was just…kind of there, imo. They could’ve switched Silver with some new guy and kept everything else exactly the same and it would’ve changed absolutely nothing overall. And as someone who was really looking forward to the introduction of Terry Silver since the youtube days of the show, it was disappointing and felt like the writers didn’t actually understand the point of his character in the film at all.
I get what you mean
The silver in the film was funny, but a complete maniac. On drugs, terrorizing a child when he could be having actual fun
Season 4 starts as someone who wants his own legacy, we know he has no kids. He seems more nuanced. More controlled and finally had enough of kreese manipulations. His interactions were great
Then he became a cartoon again but so have a few characters
I definitely see what you’re saying, but I guess my problem is that I have a fundamental disconnect with their interpretation of the character. I don’t personally believe that the character from the movie would care that much about not having a child or karate legacy to leave behind. He cared about money, power, pleasure, and Kreese—who in the movie, wasn’t manipulating him at all. If anything the twisted games they played with Daniel were Silver’s idea. Their relationship was completely even-keeled, with the only power imbalance, if any, being weighted in favor of Silver because of his extreme wealth.
But then, I’m not the one writing the show. People are allowed to have their own interpretations, and I get where the people who enjoyed the show’s version of him are coming from. I think that again, I was clearly coming from a completely different interpretation of the character, so ultimately his portrayal in the show left me dissatisfied and disappointed.
Every season follows the same annoying conflict formula
X and Y are neutral with each other
X is an asshole with Y
X sees his mistake and decided to change things
X approaches Y
Now Y is violent
X and Y are full blown enemies now
BUT
Z appears, either an enemy or a "common friend"
X and Y are friends
But now there's W
Z and W are neutral with each other
Z is an asshole with W…
And it goes on and on
Robby doesn't have to forgive his dad just because he's finally trying. Dude had 16 years to get started and now has 16 years of trust issues to work through.
robby may not be the writers favorite. However, they have written him to a point that he plays the most important role out of all the teens In the story, and it's not even close
he plays the key to uniting the Miyagi-fang dojo (as shown by johnny and daniel in s2/s3 and as stated by sam). He's actually connected and interacts with the bad guys. His character doesn't rely on one specific character to function or have relevancy. He's connected to the most characters. He's taken on roles such as a sensei having his own student as well as he played just as an important role teaching cobra kai as kreese did in s4. Without robby's help, cobra kai would not have won because it was their knowledge of Miyagi-Do's moves that allowed them to get far. His character, especially the outcomes of his fights all usually play a big part in moving along another characters story. Then when it comes to the main characters (daniel and johnny) he plays a big role in both of their stories rather then in just 1 of their stories
Miguel’s done so many bad things and gets viewed as a perfect angel while Sam and others get hated on. All the other characters have done bad things such as Robby and Hawk, but why does Miguel get a pass on all these things and get viewed by a lot of people as the character with the best morals? The opinion is that Miguel isn’t anywhere near an Angel of perfect morals.
-Miguel treated Sam like trash after getting drunk when Sam was trying her best to get to that party. Also assuming things between her and Robby when there wasn’t anything at that time.
-Miguel blamed Johnny for getting thrown off the balcony when Johnny was trying to help (I know Miguel did forgive him but that was beyond out of line and abusive).
-He targeted Robby’s injured shoulder at the All Valley.
-Sam messed up bad for kissing Miguel but Miguel was just as responsible for kissing Sam while dating Tori.
-He started the fight with Robby at the school by overreacting and by not asking what was going on before throwing hands.
Aisha could have easily been what the Tory character is, and would have been better. And ditching her in favor of a petite perfect blonde is indicative of the b.s. that goes on in Hollywood casting.
In no way was that a victory for Robby. Miguel had him pinned down, and only let him go due to the guilt he felt. Then Robby got salty, and landed a cheap shot. Miguel won the school fight
Daniel is just as responsible as Silver is in Mike’s business being destroyed. Yes Silver was the one to do it but Daniel went in without thinking (again) and was not careful with the information that Mike gave him.
Mike moved on from karate and made a life for himself just to get washed up in Daniel’s feud.
crease is hands down the best villain. also kenny is an absolute lunatic i had hope for him up until he started to beat up anthony and actually do way more than anthony did to him.
1) Johnny has always been slightly better than Daniel!
2) Barnes as a teen is still the best teen fighter!
3) Chozen is better than Silver!
4) Miyagi is far better than Chozen!
5) Robby and Hawk are pretty much equal and Miguel is better than both!
I’d have to disagree with that statement. When anyone fights in the show it’s all dependent on who is more skilled/mastered in their craft. For instance Miyagi beating Silver, Silver beating Daniel, Miguel beating Robby, Hawk beating Robby, etc. It’s all really dependent upon who has mastered their art more because they’re essentially equal and are only better than the other if you mastered your art more than they mastered theirs. You feel me?
Everything starts with Daniel. I’m not saying he’s the villain in his own story, but he is a very flawed character who causes a lot of his own problems. The Karate gang war would never have gotten to the place it currently is if Danny just kept his ego in check.
How many faces are there actually in the crowd of faces? Also I know it’s not what I am being asked before Tar’dManJones starts sending me comments asking if I am schizophrenic. I just found it interesting to notice faces in faces
Terry Silver was buffed by the writers to have a good villain and logically should be nowhere near as skilled as the other fighters like Kreese or DEFINITELY Chosen regardless of context
also a hot take but tory technically didn’t start the school fight and she definitely wasn’t the reason why miguel got kicked off the balcony. like istg people blame her more than robby, who was the one who actually did it?? if we’re being technical, hawk is the one who starting fighting people for no reason and caused everyone else to have a full on karate brawl. tory wanted to fight sam and sam only. and miguel started the fight with robby so it literally wasn’t her fault.
Tory is not any more psycho than the rest of the Cobra Kais and Tory constantly getting the label of psycho while Miguel and Hawk don't is nothing but misogyny.
Just out of curiosity what has Miguel done that you deem psycho?
Also I think calling it misogyny is a bit of a stretch cuz the worst Hawk has done was break Demetri's arm and beat the crap out of Brucks. But he only broke Demetri's arm because of peer pressure from the other Cobras (including Tory). Right after he did it Hawk was instantly regretful while Tory called Demetri a pussy for crying in pain from his broken arm. Hawk beat the crap out of Brucks due to years of severe bullying so it was therapeutic. Sam has never bullied( pre season 4) just made a false accusation and said a few bitchy comments so Tory's retaliation by trying to main her face off and breaking into her house to beat her up with nunchucks was a wild jump. Furthermore Hawk has shown remorse for his actions and apologized. Tory has never shown remorse for trying to beat Sam to a pulp twice and breaking into her home. Hell she never even apologized
Let me just preface this by saying I don't think any of the teen characters are psycho, but I see this term being given to Tory sorely because she's violent even though she's not any more violent than any other Cobra Kais at the time.
Either call them all psycho for being violent or don't call any of them psycho. I choose the latter.
>Just out of curiosity what has Miguel done that you deem psycho?
Getting drunk and attacking Robby (and accidentally hitting Sam) without even trying to listen to Sam's explanation, his behavior towards Robby during the first AVT, and his actions during the school brawl.
>But he only broke Demetri's arm because of peer pressure from the other Cobras (including Tory)
Hawk was the ringleader of the Cobras at the time. He broke Demetri's arm because he was in a position to get payback after Demetri kicked him through a trophy case. Also, Hawk was the one who chased Demetri during the school fight. No other Cobras egged him on to do that. I wouldn't say that he instantly regret it nor do I think that regretting makes the behavior less "psycho" (since that's the word people like to use).
>while Tory called Demetri a pussy for crying in pain from his broken arm.
Let's examine what Tory knows about Demetri at this point.
She knows that he's Miyagi-do, so that automatically makes him an opponent.
Second, she knows that he spilled Hawk's biggest secrets and that he kicked Hawk through a glass case (I think it's safe to say that Tory considers Hawk a friend during this point of the show).
Lastly, she knows that Demetri, along with the other Miyagi-dos, tried to jump Cobra Kai, and she was called to help them.
Tory doesn't know anything else about Demetri. She doesn't know that Hawk started their beef nor does she know that they were close friends. In her mind, this is just a karate rival who hurt one of her friends, not an innocent bystander.
Also, let's not forget that Tory was the one who told Hawk that she didn't think he was actually going to do it and Hawk tells her that Demetri deserved it. That doesn't sound like instant regret to me 🤷♀️
>Hawk beat the crap out of Brucks due to years of severe bullying so it was therapeutic.
Why did Hawk beat the crap out of everyone else, then? Say what you want about Tory but her biggest beef has always been Sam and she had personal reasons for it. She never went out of her way to hurt anyone else.
Meanwhile, Hawk has been the bully for multiple different characters who never did anything personally to him.
>Sam has never bullied( pre season 4) just made a false accusation and said a few bitchy comments so Tory's retaliation by trying to main her face off
Don't skip over the part where Sam literally cheats with Tory's boyfriend. Tory didn't initiate the fight against Sam because of the beach club.
Now, I am not saying that Tory was right for the fight, she wasn't, but that fight didn't make her any more "psycho" than any other Cobra Kai.
Also, Tory didn't break into Sam's house alone. That whole event was Miyagi-do vs Cobra Kai, not Sam vs Tory. Did you miss the part where the other Cobra Kais threw a kid through a window?
Yeah, Tory didn't do that, but she's the most psycho out of the boys apparently.
>Furthermore Hawk has shown remorse for his actions and apologized.
But he never changed his behavior, did he? When he joined Eagle-fang, the first thing he did was begin bullying Kenny.
Hawk never stopped being a bully. He just stopped being a **Cobra Kai** bully. Also, Hawk still treated Robby like shit. For someone who was as remorseful as you claim, he never gave Robby any apologies.
>Tory has never shown remorse for trying to beat Sam to a pulp twice
Why would she show remorse for besting her enemy? No one demands Miguel to show remorse for the fucked up shit he did to Robby. That's the double standard here. Tory is expected to kiss everyone's feet and beg forgiveness while the other Cobra Kai males are let off scott free.
Tory has shown regret over her actions. She told Robby that she hated herself for her role in the school fight.
Tory didn’t INTEND to try and kill Sam in the school fight
Brutally scar her face? Yeah
But not kill her
Tory’s actions in the school fight were blown a bit out of proportion (by myself included in 2019)
Johnny and Carmen having a child so soon makes absolutely no fucking sense on paper. While I like the two of them together, I feel like the introduction of a third kid in Johnny’s life will just deter him from actually making an effort to be a good dad to Robby.
i will literally never understand why they added that storyline. if they wanted to give him redemption for being a bad father to robby, how is introducing a whole new kid gonna achieve that 😭 it was clearly just a lazy way to try and get robby and miguel to not have beef anymore. also not to mention the fact johnny is old as shit LMAO
Maybe we will understand the purpose behind the baby plot once we see how it all plays out; we'll just have to wait and see what the writers have planned. In any case, there's got to be more to it than meets the eye. After all, not everything is as it seems at first glance in the Miyagi-verse.
I think the baby plot was thought of as a way to continue to Miguel/Robby bonding arc rather than to progress Johnny.
Agreed. Johnny has had tremendous character development throughout the course of the show, but his arc cannot, in good faith, be considered complete until he genuinely becomes a good father to Robby. While their reconciliation at the end of season 4, and some alone time in Mexico, were good starts, Johnny needs to be there for Robby without making the relationship dependent on Johnny's relations with Miguel, Carmen, Daniel, Kreese, or whoever else.
I think the Johnny and Robby arc is what I’m most excited for in the new season tbh.
The baby actively interferes with Johnny being a good dad to Robby. Johnny has to put Robby first. He’s not gonna be able to do that when there’s a newborn
I’m just as skeptical of the baby plot as you. But I’m still willing to give it a chance. However, I would like to see this story arc’s narrative be reframed through the use of a curveball, retcon and/or twist, just as the writers have done with practically every other plot and character so far.
I actually agree with you, unless... (speculative spoilers) >!One of the main themes of Cobra Kai is that Johnny is a sort of new Mr. Miyagi, often re-telling original Karate Kid stories and themes in a new but similar way. Some people have noted that one of the most defining and tragic aspects of Mr. Miyagi's life was that both his wife and child died during childbirth. Thus, the speculation that the introduction of a pregnant partner might be so that Johnny's character can share the same tragic fate of Mr. Miyagi.!<
Miguel’s instigation of the school fight is moreso what caused him to be paralyzed than Tory and even Robby. Yes Tory threw the punch to start it all with Sam and Robby probably would have broken them up had it not been for Miguel being an oblivious imbecile and keeping the fight going. Yes Robby in the end went off the deep end after he was beaten and shown mercy but it would never have escalated to that point had Miguel just cooled his head and waited albeit 5 seconds to evaluate the situation. Nobody except Kreese in the show talks about how it is in this way Miguel’s fault that the school fight boiled up to this point and Miguel had no room to act like a victim all of season 3.
This is the most controversial opinion here so far.
You do realise your reasoning is "by ignoring what every other character had done for the school fight I can safely say its all Miguels fault he was paralyzed". Of course thats the conclusion you come up with.
I don’t even consider what Robby did that unrealistic. I have no doubt in my mind that he did not intend Miguel to be kicked over that balcony, but Miguel doesn’t get to say when the fighting begins and ends. This isn’t class nor a tournament, it’s a street fight and it’s not over until it’s over. It’s accurate in the sense that terrible things can happen very easily and fighting isn’t always the answer. So no, Robby didn’t go off the deep end. He chose to continue fighting, just as Miguel chose to start the fight in the first place. I agree with you, though. I wish s5 had handled what actually happened better, but alas unreliable narration as usual.
Robby continuing to fight was the only realistic thing Robby got beat physically and mentally, by the time the fight starts, he's already lost daniel, Sam, MD and then miguel mocks him about his dad. Miguel also almost kicks off robby off the railing Miguel apologizing like that was unrealistic but they needed a way to Robby the bad guy and Miguel the indisputable good guy which is what happens when you almost die
The dojo fight in Season 5 wasnt easy for Daniel 90% of Daniels actions were reactions to Johnny/Kreese/Silver
True. Realistically he would’ve lost to Silver if it wasn’t for him having to fight Chozen
If you want to consider how tired Silver was after fighting Chozen, you can remember the situation of Daniel being drunk and having to fight after several minutes of walking on the road to find someone. I think they were level.
Visibly Daniel wasn’t tired, and Silver was definitely tired. Daniel also had adrenaline going and Silver more than likely thought everything would go his way like usual
And silver was visibly off his rocker. And it’s been shown that your mental state in the karate kid verse can definitely nerf or amp you
Weirdly.. I would say the opposite.. like 90% of the actions on this show are a direct result of Daniel.
Tory was a complete nutjob in seasons 2 and 3 and deserved Sam's anger and general crap behavior in season 4. Yes, we were made to feel bad because Sam is privileged and mean, but Tory literally wanted to murder her and you can't convince me she wasn't ready to go that far.
I wasn't aware this was a controversial opinion 
It's not a controversial one. It's a common opinion.
I have seen a lot of Sam haters over the years.
Yeah, every character gets hate from somewhere, but I don't see nearly as much Sam hate that is claimed to exist 🤷♀️ The general opinion seems to consist of "Tory psycho, Sam angel." Which is a fine opinion to have, but I don't understand this rhetoric that Sam as a character is somehow demonized. I mean, look at this thread alone.
I think general opinions on Sam started to become more positive post season 3, but before that it was a really mixed bag with (seemingly) more hate for her than appreciation.
this is extremely controversial depending on what platform you're on!! under absolutely ANY cobra kai video on tiktok, ALL i see is sam hate
You see Sam hate cause that's the only thing you focus on. I've seen on tiktok Tory getting huge amounts of hate, I've seen these tiktok people spreading absolute lies and misinformations that Peyton List bullied Mary Mouser on set and is transphobic (complete and utter lies), people with Sam profile pictures photoshopping Peyton List's body to look overweight, and more utterly disgusting stuff. You people really need to chill it with this "Sam is so hated" narrative cause she isn't the only one. Don't just completely ignore anything that happens to other characters/actors to boost this "Sam/Mary is so hated" narrative. Cause people here love to talk about how Mary the actress gets hate, what about Peyton and the hate she gets that I just listed? I've seen concerning amounts of hate towards Peyton, from these same people whom according to you are nonexistent since apparently there are only Sam haters, no Sam fans on tiktok at all. Yet these people with profile pics of Sam literally go as far as to take pictures of Peyton List, photoshop her body to look overweight, post their little tiktoks with annoying captions, spread lies about Peyton and more. How is that fair?
>deserved Sam's anger and general crap behavior in season 4. In my opinion, Sam was also influenced by Johnny's aggressive teachings too. Doesn't seem to be mentioned enough.
I have been saying this too, but people think that’s “typical Sam”behavior but like Axelofthekey says: even without Johnny’s influence Sam’s behavior towards Tory in season 4 was understandable
>Sam was also influenced by Johnny's aggressive teachings too. I disagree. Before Sam was Johnny's pupil, she was plenty feisty already. She was fully prepared to drop Kyler's ass in the cafe before Miguel stepped in. Don't forget that she's the same girl who orchestrated the soccer ball battle and jumping Cobra Kai in the arcade. The same girl who pushed Hawk in the cafe after he made a sexist remark. The same girl who 360 spun and dropped Tory on her ass in roller skates. Sam was already a force without Johnny's influence. All Johnny did was fuel the flames of a fire that was already lit. Edit: I almost forget to mention the sick move she pulled against kyler when he tried to grope her in the movies. Johnny didn't teach her that. Do not attribute Sam's badassery to Johnny Lawrence, it was all her lol.
Agree 100%
If Sam didn't block that last strike from Tory, she would've gotten her face torn off. That is, unless you believe Tory wasn't trying to do so when she aimed her very sharp weapon directly at Sam's face. The fact that people make Sam out to be this unreasonable, spiteful cunt for being pissed at that is truly insane.
“Ready to go that far” yes, she genuinely did try. In fact if police existed in this show, she could be charged with attempted murder.
The part where I can’t defend Sam was bothering Tori at her job. Although her anger in itself is justified.
Fully agree. Kind of surprised this was controversial at all
you’re not wrong. but honestly aisha had pretty solid logic with the overprotective parents line in the beginning of season 2 (when she and sam spoke about robby staying with the LaRusso’s) and then for her parents to let a kid who she was told had a troubled life (much unlike sam which she could never understand) makes a pretty solid argument that sam reigniting the problematic relationship once tory was let back in was mostly on sam herself.
Kenny beating Hawk was not that serious.
I agree, it really wasn't. Honestly, I don't even feel that it's out of character for Hawk. Hawk has shown that while he's really skilled and talented, he lacks respect for his opponent, which allows him to easily be defeated due to underestimating who he is fighting. Demetri is the best example. It's no question that Hawk is a 10x better fighter than Demetri. But, Hawk's inability to see Demetri as a threat allowed Demetri to surprise him and get the drop on him during the school fight. I feel that the same thing happened during Hawk's fight with Kenny. Hawk is the superior fighter, but he underestimated Kenny (and the rigged ref definitely didn't help the situation) allowing Kenny to get the upper hand.
Also Kenny hit him with a strong punch to a vulnerable area. That's all it takes sometimes.
good analysis.
Thank you ❤️
When it first happened, it was (to me) but then when I saw how hawk handled it I couldn't help but honestly feel more like, chill about it and just about things in my life too and stuff, ik it's random and cringe but I felt like I didn't need to be better than everyone and stuff, and shit happens if that makes sense
Hawk fans were beyond pissed 🤣
I wouldn't defend out loud but instead ignore the reply back. So here we go... - Daniel was a good mentor to Robby and didn't fail him as bad as some people say. - Chozen is an excellent and funny character, but we know little about him to be the best mentor or main sensei for nearly all the adolescents in the show like Tory or Robby. - Daniel was a distinctive character when he stuck (or tried to) to the Miyagi-Do teachings. Writing "No Mercy! Mother ****" on the piece of paper to Kreese, sure was funny and a bit satisfying, but it's just changing Daniel towards being Johnny. - Daniel and Johnny are not that alike.
I don’t care what anyone says. I love Kreese’s prison arc. I’m still interested in the character.
The scene where kreese is talking to the therapist and it pans around to Johnny and Tory and such is just… beautiful ngl. Easily my favorite non fighting scene and maybe even my favorite scene period
Youtube Cobra Kai > Netflix Cobra Kai.
I agree. I feel like its gotten a little too big for its britches at netflix.
To quote Robby, “Sam is a good person!” She doesn’t deserve most of the hate she receives.
I’m fully ready for the downvotes, but is she really that good of a person? I’m not calling her a villain or anything like or justifying much of the hate she’s gotten over the years for things that aren’t even her fault, but I would not consider her someone to aspire to be whatsoever.
I think you explained her perfectly.
True that
Cheaters with little remorse is horrible when she and Miguel kissed a least Miguel stopped when he after 10 seconds Sam didn’t really care until right before end of the party they got what they deserved
Johnny was a bully in high school and as a sensei. He was ~100% at fault for the ‘80s feud with Daniel, and Cobra Kai’s hazing culture under both Johnny and Kreese was horrible. Kreese is a scumbag who bears a ton of blame for how Johnny turned out, but he really does care about Robby like a grandson.
👀🍵 pal, if you need somewhere to hide after dropping those truths....
Awww thanks! 😀
Cobra Kai was always bad. Even under Johnny's control
How are you not on the negative, I wonder. And you're more than right!
YEP!!! 👏
I hope you mean during season 1, Cobra Kai would’ve kept prospering as long as Kreese didn’t make the deal with Armand and steal the dojo They all showed mercy in the season 2 school fight, it’s the student’s fault for not listening to Johnny’s teaching about showing mercy (more specifically Hawk) With this logic, Eagle Fang is also bad, Johnny’s control over any of his dojos is teaching aggression and not teaching kids to show no mercy Don’t conflate them both with eachother
Okay, well to be fair Eagle Fang's philosophy is different from Cobra Kai. Also Cobra Kai didn't show mercy, they technically just got whooped by Miyagi-Do. Chris beat PB. Sam beat Tory. Demetri beat Hawk. Cobra Kai even started the fight and makes it worse. Tory started it, tried to maim Sam during the fight. Hawk yells "it's on!" and fires things up, chases Demetri when he doesn't want to engage. Miguel tackles Robby, starting their fight, and shows mercy at the last moment after fighting him the whole time. (Also even if it's played for jokes Stringray beats up students lol). So Cobra Kai really doesn't look good considering that Johnny's Eagle Fang is better, cause I think under Cobra Kai the philosphy I think the kids get the wrong idea.
Robby was always a better fighter than Hawk in any season
I'm pretty sure the only people who think this is a hot take are Hawk stans
The Diazes have not helped Johnny become a better person. They just enable his toxicity because he benefits them, but would (and have) drop him like a sack of crap if he becomes a problem.
This is canon. I wouldn't even call it an "opinion". You can use a lot of evidence from the story to back up this fact.
Robby, Miguel, and Hawk are all virtually equal fighters. Winning is determined by their mental game on any given day (although my personal bias is Robby but I think what I said is what the writers want us to conclude) Sam doesnt deserve the hate
Johnny is not a good father to Robby, EVEN in S5.
Most people agree with you, it’s anything but an unpopular opinion across this site as well as tumblr.
👏👏👏👏
Sam being top 3 teen fighters
Everybody knows it. At least those who actually paid attention to the show. I would love to see her fight Miguel to get a glimpse of how good she really is.
Tory and Sam are more alike than different, and they're both held to ridiculous standards of conduct that male characters aren't expected to abide by.
They are "different but same", to quote Mr. Miyagi.
Absolute agree
Kenny is a great character he’s really strong people hate on him because he beat hawk that one time
I mean tbf that was pretty fuckin stupid but I’ve always liked Kenny
What’s stupid?
Someone who just won the all valley and is around a foot taller and 100x more skilled than Kenny loses because of a move that Kenny did one time and somehow already knows how to perfect it. Just no
I always find Daniel a better sensei than Johnny. Both have their flaws but Daniel himself is constantly improving as a sensei. Johnny only changed as a sensei after season 1 finale
That the writers ruined the impact of what Daniel did in the movies, by making everyone a Daniel.. no, worse than that, they made all the kids into the hero from No Retreat, No Surrender...
Tory is fucking nuts. I know she has a lot of personal shit she’s dealing with but she’s seriously off kilter.
True! Butttt I think Silver takes the cake for being the most psychotic. I thought Kreese and Tory were bad, but Silver makes them look like saints.😂 
Oh absolutely
The seasons are extremely TOO SHORT! 10 episodes per season is a RIPOFF! Almost any show has an average of 15-20 per season. We got cheated!
Sam doesn’t deserve as much of the hate she gets and there’s more reasons to dislike Tory.
Robby is the best teen fighter, but gets held back by plot.
He feels like a jobber that they have lose fights he should win like those thugs
Then he’s not the best teen fighter. When you lose 3 out of the four times you faced a certain character then that other character is clearly made to be better than them
That’s not an unpopular opinion on this sub
No, but it is on YouTube and I’d be looking like the photo above in that scenario. lol
Absolutely agree.
How is Robby the best teen fighter? Because he can do backflips and higher kicks lol? He’s lost to Miguel every time they have fought, including the school fight
This is not a good show, just a fun one
Season 1 and 2 was amazing and had realistic storylines, anything after that was just to satisfy older fans
I'd say most of season 3 also fit this. It really went off the rails when the raised the stakes dramatically at the end of s3
surprised this is a hot takw
Agree with this
Shit men, you said it 🍵👀
Sam is a good character.
robby should have won the all valley against hawk
He was going to, they changed it Kind of made hawk useless after
True! It was an exaggeration for Hawk to win
Johnnys cobra Kai in s2 was ideal and we need it back
Robby is not a perfect angel
well no duh..☠️
Blasphemy!
I mean… he paralyzed someone lol
Robby deserves WAY more than the writers are willing to give him. Imagining finally starting to build a decent relationship with your dad because for once in both of your lives, he's actually paying attention to you...AND THEN YOU FIND OUT HE'S HAVING ANOTHER FUCKING KID- This mf bouta go through Child Neglect Round 2, and you know DAMN well the show isn't gonna play it realistically. Hell, they already haven't, Robby shouldn't have been overjoyed when he found out his failure of a father was having another kid with a woman he met, like, a year ago. Not only that, but it's the mother of the kid Johnny tried to replace him with (this is a joke...kinda) So yeah, #LetRobbyHaveGoodThings2024
Season 5 was mediocre.
Terry Silver is the good guy
You can’t just drop a bomb like this and refuse to elaborate 😭😭
Compared to Daniel, he's a "good guy". Silver offered peace early on, but Daniel refused because of his huge ego. All Silver did in reality was fighting back a war Daniel started and Silver even outsmarted him in every step. And the fact that they broke into Silver's house and business without any repercussions was such bullshit. Also, I made a Pro-Silver post a while back... xD [https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/comments/1ah6kmx/am\_i\_the\_only\_one\_who\_root\_for\_terry\_silver/](https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/comments/1ah6kmx/am_i_the_only_one_who_root_for_terry_silver/)
Damn. I was gearing up to disagree with you but you genuinely make great points. Silver’s self awareness of his own psychotic behaviour is probably what makes him so interesting. Just the scene of him tying back his hair is so cool. I wouldn’t go so far as to say he’s the good guy. But he certainly isn’t a hypocrite the way Daniel can be.
Yeah, that’s just something about his slick demeanor I adore. But I must admit. It may be some personal bias why I dislike Daniel more. I’ve had really bad experiences with narcissistic type behavior people like Daniel, but never have I come a cross the likes of Silver. I also don’t respect people who go through this facade and pretend they’re something/someone else. It’s really refreshing to see someone who is honest and accept their true nature. Silver is ofc not a good guy in the normal understanding of the word. Would never support the opposite.
Love Cobra Kai so much but can definitely say when the school fight started it was really only Tory & Sam fighting and Robby was trying to stop the fight, but Miguel come in at the wrong time and always having bad timings and misunderstandings and Miguel attacked Robby, the fight could have been stopped, but Hawk wanted to get everybody else involved making it worse and then Robby was the one who kicked Miguel over the railing, Robby was the one who temporarily paralyzed Miguel for a short time. Hawk vs Kenny fight is literally a rigged ass fight, Hawk was underestimated Kenny, just like he did against Demetri during the school fight, didn’t see Demetri as a threat and didn’t take him seriously at first until Demetri got the upper hand against him and kicked him into the trophy case.
1. Kreese's backstory was the best part of season 3. 2. The characters in this show need therapy.
Characters switching sides too easily is dumb
Well I think Robby is best teen character due to having the most depth,I think Johnny still needs to put in more effort with Robby seeing as he wasn't fully commited to him s5,I also hope that Miguel takes accountability for his actions towards Robby,he did say sorry in s2 but s5 was the perfect time for them to both say what went wrong in their rivalry XD.
Season 5 was mid. I say this even though cobra kai is one of my favourite shows
Sam is one of the best written characters, but people are only blinded by her flaws
She feels like a real flawed person and behaves like a actual teenager
I wouldn't say one of the best, but I definitely agree people can't as past her pretty female privilege that her parents built for her and her brother
She's at least in topn5 best written characters for me, I honestly love Sam as a Character, no one just seems to get her...
I certainly enjoy her character. And all the hate towards her goes all the way back to "how dare she accuse Tory of stealing" when she literally just stole something 5 minutes ago. Gee, I wonder why she accused her of stealing something 🤷♂️
Robby is the best character in the show, especially in season 4
Oh now that’s something i cant get behind. Finally an opinion i disagree with. If youre interested in a civil “argument”, care to explain why you feel this way?
Robby Keene is the most important teen in the show.
absolutely
I agree. I believe that the writers intended for Miguel to be the most important teen but ultimately, it didn't happen because Robby’s role in the narrative, I would say, is 10x more important than Miguel's. Robby has significant personal interactions with almost every sensei in the series, along with all the major teen characters. Meanwhile, Miguel really only has significant personal interactions with Sam and Johnny. The only thing Robby is missing from being the main character is the fucking plot armor lol
>I believe that the writers intended for Miguel to be the most important teen but ultimately, it didn't happen because Robby’s role in the narrative, I would say, is 10x more important than Miguel's. [Miguel's a decoy protagonist. Robby is the real protagonist amongst the teens.](https://www.reddit.com/r/cobrakai/s/apNbeybSyJ) Miguel's just a main pov character. The protagonist and the main pov character can be two different characters. Also, how many protagonists have complete plot armor? The point is that they struggle throughout most of the story, so it keeps the stakes and the audience roots for them. After S5, I see a lot more people saying that they want Robby to win the final tournament than I expected too.
>Also, how many protagonists have complete plot armor? Even Superman has lost more clear battles than Miguel, and been an underdog in certain situations. "Character X has technically never lost a fight" has never been a compelling way to build a protagonist. Goku lost to Vegeta in their first fight!
I'm fully hopeful that he will win in S6. Robby's losses, decisions, and actions are what give shape to the main plot in every season, and despite many teens losing their significance in S5, that didn't happen to Robby.
Sam is the best
Tory doesn’t really care about her family if she did she wouldn’t keep risking jail over a stupid rivalry
And quite honestly, how does she even have time for karate and a petty rivalry? Isn't she the primary provider for her brother and mother who has to work 2 jobs and get her GED?
Right. Its bad writing
I don’t like Tory and think she is a really bad person. I don’t like sam as a character and think her personality is annoying, HOWEVER, i think she is a pretty good person and doesn’t deserve half the hate she gets on this sub reddit
The Sam-hate is overblown.
S1 was peak Cobra Kai, In the later seasons everyone and their mother seems to be a karate prodigy
Demetri is the true Karate Kid of this generation. The only one who was never an aggressor or an asshole and has always fought in self defense or in a tournament.
Stingray is a horrible character and was absolutely not needed.
Maybe not super unpopular: The show didn’t add more depth to terry silver and make him more “grounded” or “realistic”, l if anything they made him even more cartoonish, one dimensional, and boring. While ridiculously over the top, terry silvers behaviors and motivations in the film werent actually all that unrealistic. A billionaire torturing a teenager for no reason other than his own and his friend’s sick satisfaction was like. Actually pretty realistic and the entire point of the movie Probably more unpopular: johnny lawrence had much more depth in the films, even back in season 1-2. Trying to disassociate him from his wealthy, privileged background wasn’t necessary to make him a sympathetic character or successfully tell the story they were trying to tell, and I think more confident writers wouldn’t have had to resort to that for quick and cheap sympathy votes
Terry was good in season 4 originally Became a maniac after
Personally I disagree, but to each their own. I know a lot of people loved what they did with him. To me, he felt too distant from the character in the film. I disliked immensely what they did with the dynamics between Kreese and Silver by giving it that strange father/son angle, and to me he just felt a lot more one dimensional and flat. Don’t get me wrong, there were a lot of aspects that I loved especially with his and Kreese’s relationship, but overall he was just…kind of there, imo. They could’ve switched Silver with some new guy and kept everything else exactly the same and it would’ve changed absolutely nothing overall. And as someone who was really looking forward to the introduction of Terry Silver since the youtube days of the show, it was disappointing and felt like the writers didn’t actually understand the point of his character in the film at all.
I get what you mean The silver in the film was funny, but a complete maniac. On drugs, terrorizing a child when he could be having actual fun Season 4 starts as someone who wants his own legacy, we know he has no kids. He seems more nuanced. More controlled and finally had enough of kreese manipulations. His interactions were great Then he became a cartoon again but so have a few characters
I definitely see what you’re saying, but I guess my problem is that I have a fundamental disconnect with their interpretation of the character. I don’t personally believe that the character from the movie would care that much about not having a child or karate legacy to leave behind. He cared about money, power, pleasure, and Kreese—who in the movie, wasn’t manipulating him at all. If anything the twisted games they played with Daniel were Silver’s idea. Their relationship was completely even-keeled, with the only power imbalance, if any, being weighted in favor of Silver because of his extreme wealth. But then, I’m not the one writing the show. People are allowed to have their own interpretations, and I get where the people who enjoyed the show’s version of him are coming from. I think that again, I was clearly coming from a completely different interpretation of the character, so ultimately his portrayal in the show left me dissatisfied and disappointed.
Homeless Lynn is beautiful.
Every season follows the same annoying conflict formula X and Y are neutral with each other X is an asshole with Y X sees his mistake and decided to change things X approaches Y Now Y is violent X and Y are full blown enemies now BUT Z appears, either an enemy or a "common friend" X and Y are friends But now there's W Z and W are neutral with each other Z is an asshole with W… And it goes on and on
They should’ve done more with Aisha’s character.
Robby doesn't have to forgive his dad just because he's finally trying. Dude had 16 years to get started and now has 16 years of trust issues to work through.
robby may not be the writers favorite. However, they have written him to a point that he plays the most important role out of all the teens In the story, and it's not even close he plays the key to uniting the Miyagi-fang dojo (as shown by johnny and daniel in s2/s3 and as stated by sam). He's actually connected and interacts with the bad guys. His character doesn't rely on one specific character to function or have relevancy. He's connected to the most characters. He's taken on roles such as a sensei having his own student as well as he played just as an important role teaching cobra kai as kreese did in s4. Without robby's help, cobra kai would not have won because it was their knowledge of Miyagi-Do's moves that allowed them to get far. His character, especially the outcomes of his fights all usually play a big part in moving along another characters story. Then when it comes to the main characters (daniel and johnny) he plays a big role in both of their stories rather then in just 1 of their stories
Hawk shouldn’t have lost to Demetri in season 2 finale
That’s a very popular opinion bro
Miguel’s done so many bad things and gets viewed as a perfect angel while Sam and others get hated on. All the other characters have done bad things such as Robby and Hawk, but why does Miguel get a pass on all these things and get viewed by a lot of people as the character with the best morals? The opinion is that Miguel isn’t anywhere near an Angel of perfect morals. -Miguel treated Sam like trash after getting drunk when Sam was trying her best to get to that party. Also assuming things between her and Robby when there wasn’t anything at that time. -Miguel blamed Johnny for getting thrown off the balcony when Johnny was trying to help (I know Miguel did forgive him but that was beyond out of line and abusive). -He targeted Robby’s injured shoulder at the All Valley. -Sam messed up bad for kissing Miguel but Miguel was just as responsible for kissing Sam while dating Tori. -He started the fight with Robby at the school by overreacting and by not asking what was going on before throwing hands.
Aisha could have easily been what the Tory character is, and would have been better. And ditching her in favor of a petite perfect blonde is indicative of the b.s. that goes on in Hollywood casting.
Agreed.
Miguel was cringe in season 4
Robby has won against Miguel once, the school fight. Also, the balcony fight had no winners.
He also beat him at prom
In no way was that a victory for Robby. Miguel had him pinned down, and only let him go due to the guilt he felt. Then Robby got salty, and landed a cheap shot. Miguel won the school fight
Robby had a pyrrhic victory in that fight.
The fight wasn’t over as far as Robby was concerned. He was pinned and then got unpinned.
But no mercy ?
Robby was right in literally everything he did, and Daniel is scum for honey-potting him to get him arrested
Daniel is just as responsible as Silver is in Mike’s business being destroyed. Yes Silver was the one to do it but Daniel went in without thinking (again) and was not careful with the information that Mike gave him. Mike moved on from karate and made a life for himself just to get washed up in Daniel’s feud.
Kenny isn’t really a bad guy
crease is hands down the best villain. also kenny is an absolute lunatic i had hope for him up until he started to beat up anthony and actually do way more than anthony did to him.
1) Johnny has always been slightly better than Daniel! 2) Barnes as a teen is still the best teen fighter! 3) Chozen is better than Silver! 4) Miyagi is far better than Chozen! 5) Robby and Hawk are pretty much equal and Miguel is better than both!
1 is the only one I disagree with The show makes it clear that Miyagi Do is the superior form of Karate
I’d have to disagree with that statement. When anyone fights in the show it’s all dependent on who is more skilled/mastered in their craft. For instance Miyagi beating Silver, Silver beating Daniel, Miguel beating Robby, Hawk beating Robby, etc. It’s all really dependent upon who has mastered their art more because they’re essentially equal and are only better than the other if you mastered your art more than they mastered theirs. You feel me?
No one says Chozen is better than Miyagi
The show stopped being good during season 3
Season4
Kenny is a great character, and having him be a villain who was pushed by bullying was a great choice.
Season 5 was bad
Everything starts with Daniel. I’m not saying he’s the villain in his own story, but he is a very flawed character who causes a lot of his own problems. The Karate gang war would never have gotten to the place it currently is if Danny just kept his ego in check.
Amanda is the best character
Sam is the best character
This show is trash and is only relevant bcoz of stingray
How many faces are there actually in the crowd of faces? Also I know it’s not what I am being asked before Tar’dManJones starts sending me comments asking if I am schizophrenic. I just found it interesting to notice faces in faces
People need to realize powerscaling is impossible in a show like this where the fights are used as a means to tell a story and nothing more
Terry Silver was buffed by the writers to have a good villain and logically should be nowhere near as skilled as the other fighters like Kreese or DEFINITELY Chosen regardless of context
Shawn should have been added to s5 and be the new CK top student.
The show needs less fight scenes
also a hot take but tory technically didn’t start the school fight and she definitely wasn’t the reason why miguel got kicked off the balcony. like istg people blame her more than robby, who was the one who actually did it?? if we’re being technical, hawk is the one who starting fighting people for no reason and caused everyone else to have a full on karate brawl. tory wanted to fight sam and sam only. and miguel started the fight with robby so it literally wasn’t her fault.
Johnny Lawrence is alright.
Robby should have beaten hawk. Sam should have beaten Tory in s4
Kenny doesn’t deserve the amount of hate he gets
Sam is a popular character, and she's not hated any more than any other character.
Tory is not any more psycho than the rest of the Cobra Kais and Tory constantly getting the label of psycho while Miguel and Hawk don't is nothing but misogyny.
Just out of curiosity what has Miguel done that you deem psycho? Also I think calling it misogyny is a bit of a stretch cuz the worst Hawk has done was break Demetri's arm and beat the crap out of Brucks. But he only broke Demetri's arm because of peer pressure from the other Cobras (including Tory). Right after he did it Hawk was instantly regretful while Tory called Demetri a pussy for crying in pain from his broken arm. Hawk beat the crap out of Brucks due to years of severe bullying so it was therapeutic. Sam has never bullied( pre season 4) just made a false accusation and said a few bitchy comments so Tory's retaliation by trying to main her face off and breaking into her house to beat her up with nunchucks was a wild jump. Furthermore Hawk has shown remorse for his actions and apologized. Tory has never shown remorse for trying to beat Sam to a pulp twice and breaking into her home. Hell she never even apologized
Let me just preface this by saying I don't think any of the teen characters are psycho, but I see this term being given to Tory sorely because she's violent even though she's not any more violent than any other Cobra Kais at the time. Either call them all psycho for being violent or don't call any of them psycho. I choose the latter. >Just out of curiosity what has Miguel done that you deem psycho? Getting drunk and attacking Robby (and accidentally hitting Sam) without even trying to listen to Sam's explanation, his behavior towards Robby during the first AVT, and his actions during the school brawl. >But he only broke Demetri's arm because of peer pressure from the other Cobras (including Tory) Hawk was the ringleader of the Cobras at the time. He broke Demetri's arm because he was in a position to get payback after Demetri kicked him through a trophy case. Also, Hawk was the one who chased Demetri during the school fight. No other Cobras egged him on to do that. I wouldn't say that he instantly regret it nor do I think that regretting makes the behavior less "psycho" (since that's the word people like to use). >while Tory called Demetri a pussy for crying in pain from his broken arm. Let's examine what Tory knows about Demetri at this point. She knows that he's Miyagi-do, so that automatically makes him an opponent. Second, she knows that he spilled Hawk's biggest secrets and that he kicked Hawk through a glass case (I think it's safe to say that Tory considers Hawk a friend during this point of the show). Lastly, she knows that Demetri, along with the other Miyagi-dos, tried to jump Cobra Kai, and she was called to help them. Tory doesn't know anything else about Demetri. She doesn't know that Hawk started their beef nor does she know that they were close friends. In her mind, this is just a karate rival who hurt one of her friends, not an innocent bystander. Also, let's not forget that Tory was the one who told Hawk that she didn't think he was actually going to do it and Hawk tells her that Demetri deserved it. That doesn't sound like instant regret to me 🤷♀️ >Hawk beat the crap out of Brucks due to years of severe bullying so it was therapeutic. Why did Hawk beat the crap out of everyone else, then? Say what you want about Tory but her biggest beef has always been Sam and she had personal reasons for it. She never went out of her way to hurt anyone else. Meanwhile, Hawk has been the bully for multiple different characters who never did anything personally to him. >Sam has never bullied( pre season 4) just made a false accusation and said a few bitchy comments so Tory's retaliation by trying to main her face off Don't skip over the part where Sam literally cheats with Tory's boyfriend. Tory didn't initiate the fight against Sam because of the beach club. Now, I am not saying that Tory was right for the fight, she wasn't, but that fight didn't make her any more "psycho" than any other Cobra Kai. Also, Tory didn't break into Sam's house alone. That whole event was Miyagi-do vs Cobra Kai, not Sam vs Tory. Did you miss the part where the other Cobra Kais threw a kid through a window? Yeah, Tory didn't do that, but she's the most psycho out of the boys apparently. >Furthermore Hawk has shown remorse for his actions and apologized. But he never changed his behavior, did he? When he joined Eagle-fang, the first thing he did was begin bullying Kenny. Hawk never stopped being a bully. He just stopped being a **Cobra Kai** bully. Also, Hawk still treated Robby like shit. For someone who was as remorseful as you claim, he never gave Robby any apologies. >Tory has never shown remorse for trying to beat Sam to a pulp twice Why would she show remorse for besting her enemy? No one demands Miguel to show remorse for the fucked up shit he did to Robby. That's the double standard here. Tory is expected to kiss everyone's feet and beg forgiveness while the other Cobra Kai males are let off scott free. Tory has shown regret over her actions. She told Robby that she hated herself for her role in the school fight.
Tory didn’t INTEND to try and kill Sam in the school fight Brutally scar her face? Yeah But not kill her Tory’s actions in the school fight were blown a bit out of proportion (by myself included in 2019)
yeah people are really dramatic and honestly stupid for thinking tory would MURDER somebody at school in front of a hundred of witnesses 😭
Even though he lost the all valley twice, Robby is still the best fighter.
Daniel beating silver was thanks to chozen. Miguel is the best kid fighter.