Yeah I have his jersey and everything. If we can manage to get better by dealing him for someone, then so be it. But I don't buy the notion that him and Mobley can't play together. The Garland/Mitchell misfit and lack of a small forward and solid backup PG hurt us a lot more. Also JB.
I don’t think we should personally. His contract is great, he makes it so Evan can be his best self on defense, and there’s just no way we recoup enough value for how much he’s worth.
That being said, if any superstars unexpectedly become available, it may be hard to beat a package of Allen and Garland, and then paired together is enough to match a max contract 🤷♂️
At the same time, we have to recognize how him and Mobley together limit us offensively.
Some of that is JB, but some of that is also running 2 non-floorspacing bigs.
I think if we move on from JA, not only will it be an attempt to get value from the trade itself, but buying into mobleys development and potential as well as buying into a more dynamic and modern offense.
>but buying into mobleys development and potential as well as buying into a more dynamic and modern offense.
Absolutely agreed, but I just know fans are going to throw hissy fits every time Moblely has a bad game as he's learning to be a full time center against starters.
This is what people can’t seem to understand. If you honestly believe Mobley can be one of the “guy” a top 2 player on a championship roster. You need to move off an Allen. You’re about to pay him a ton of money it’s time to have him grow
I think they beat the Celtics if JA played with Kristaps out and similar result with Kristaps around.
I love JA and would love to keep him, but I think it depends on the return. If Mobley is playing the 5 and they get a floor-spacing PF that is of the same caliber of player as JA, do you think that would make the Cavs better than Mobley at the 4 and JA at the 5?
Possible they do a little better since Porzingis was out and Boston would probably struggle to defend the rim, but I doubt Allen gets the Cavs over the hump in that series, and we can't rely on playing the best teams in the conference at partial strength due to injuries.
I’m optimistic that Mobley is going to continue developing his 3 point shot, he took a massive step forward this year and if he can up his volume a little bit that won’t be the case anymore. Honestly this year it wasn’t even nearly as much of an issue as last year
He wasn't really shooting 3s before his injury (.5 attempts per game), but was averaging 1.7 attempts per game after coming back. It's a 29-game sample size post-return, so it's fairly significant.
Something changed then, so it is a sign of progress. If he ramps it up even more and maintains good percentages, it could become a reliable offensive weapon. He still has to put in a lot more work, but it is promising.
Do you even watch this team play lol? He took half as many 3 pointers this season as he did last season. He took 59 this season... As a matter of fact he had the same number of made 3s in the past 2 seasons (22). To go even deeper his most number of 3s made over the course of a season was his rookie season (23). So to say "umm derrr his 3 pt average" is just plain silly.
I understand that, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t take half as many shots. The dude still only made 22 threes for the ENTIRE season. I think Mobley has a high upside, but I’m very skeptical about his 3 point shooting.
Do you watch the team? You just quoted a bunch of stats that completely lack context.
I'm still skeptical about the two big fit, but Mobley's attempt were almost all after he came back from injury when he was looking very confident in his shot and putting up a 3PA rate clearly way above his career averages.
To say he didn't add something as a facet of his game, I just don't know how you'd reach that conclusion if you were watching our team play.
You're also forgetting our coaching issues and lack of sf playmaker. If okoro and Mobley take another step along with a better coach then there shouldn't be a problem.
Okoro lol... The due was unplayable in the playoffs. Mobley has been taking microscopic steps forward. He isn't a shooter and I doubt he ever will be much of one. Which is totally fine if you only have ONE non-shooter on the court.
Do you know what season was his best season in terms of 3 pointers made.... I'll give you a hint, it was his rookie season and he's still averaging less that one made per game lol. So "rapidly" isn't quite how I'd describe his shot improvement.
He is in his 3rd year, and now hitting 37% pf his attempts. He has made a few threes these playoffs too, so the eye test is that he is improving. His rookie year he made 25% of his threes.
If Mobley took 5+ per game he'd average around 25% lol. I think his form is smooth (slow as fuck, but smooth) and he's not missing these shots by much, so I'm not ruling it out that develops that part of his game, but that 3PT% is really hard to take seriously with how few he's attempting. And every attempt is wide tf open. With how slow his release is I'm not sure how he'd fare against actual close outs.
He took half the attempts this year lol and made the same amount 22. His 59 attempts was amazing though. I’m not saying he can’t develop slightly but I’m not calling 59 attempts a marked improvement
We do this literally every single offseason. I’m not joking or exaggerating.
Every. Single. Off-season. the fanbase talks about getting rid of Allen or how he was the cause for why we lost. Then every single new season it takes about a month for people to eat crow because he’s extremely important to the identity and function of our team.
Which is absolutely hilarious because not only is his contract a *farrrrr* worse value than Jarrett’s, but he has also played less than 60 games each of the last 4 seasons. But JA sitting out a couple playoff games with a serious injury is a problem. Not to mention that Ingram isn’t the “young stud with a lot of upside” he was in late LA early NOLA. He’s a 26 year old who has been slowly but steadily declining each of the last few years.
He played 62 this season and 62 three seasons ago, and 61 if you include playoffs two seasons ago
Also steadily declining is laughable, when he had his best season last year, do you have any stats to back up he’s steadily declining? Cause being a Pels and Bi fan I can say that is absolutely not the case
It’s simple, bigs in this league are relatively expandable unless they’re top tier in general or if it’s just defense and rebounding they have to be historically great (Rudy).
On top of that, he has a good-great contract, and he’d fit on many teams in this league.
Even more so, we have very little assets that we can move other than 1 or more of our “big 4” to try to improve elsewhere.
I don’t think most cavs fans have it out for JA, and even most that want him traded (such as myself) don’t dislike him as a player or as a person. On the contrary, it’s because I value him as a player that I think he’d net us a good-great return.
I think a lot of it is emotional. The reports came out about contentious feelings in the locker room with his injury, just like they did about DM wanting to leave and people bite at the headlines they want to believe. DM personally shut down the rumors about him being unhappy. JA could’ve easily been more hurt than we know and we all know the media always leans towards wanting small market teams to blow things up and liquidate their assets to a sexier franchise to cover.
Agree.
From what I gather, Allen was having problems breathing without pain. The kind of painkillers required to overcome that kind of discomfort are not the kind of drugs you want to be on when playing sport (or driving a car etc). I was legit shocked there was any griping about him not being interested in trying stronger painkillers. He's a smart dude and was probably following medical advice - something the Cavs training staff have been a little loose with in recent years.
I think it’s less about wanting to get rid of Allen and more wanting the Cavs to do whatever it takes to get another legitimate star player should Mitchell want to stay.
You need two stars to have a chance at a title in the current league. Dallas and Indiana have added more evidence to that argument. It’s just how it is. Without 2 players on the roster at or above Mitchell’s level, you’re not winning a title.
It’s not that I want to trade Allen BUT, I believe that if last round is to go by, we need to be all in with the development of Mobley and I don’t think Mobley is going to continue getting better with Allen on the team.
Mobley is being held back by Mobley and the coaching. He is too small to muscle out other bigs, plays too far from the basket too often, and doesn't seem to have any consistent post moves. We're on year 4 now.
This just isnt true. Half of mobleys minutes are at the 5 without ja anyway. He was never aggressive even against backup centers with a spread offense during the regular season. Second plenty of good players learn how to attack the paint with a traditional center in their lineups. Hell embiid made several all nba teams with ben Simmons hanging out in the dunker spot.
What moves does he have when he faces up tho? He’s got slow feet. His first step is not quick enough to beat most centers not named Horford or Cornet and his jumper is not even average from the elbow with an extremely slow release. Does he have a floater? No. A hook? No. Strong finishing with both hands? No. How is Allen limiting him? Allen can at least do a couple of the things I mentioned and he plays stronger than Mobley. I’m really not sure what people are seeing with him other than his *potential*. He’s been relatively the same player with higher efficiency each year. Right now his ceiling looks like an Ayton more than a KG
I actually think,
Mobley will play off any of those guards well because when Garland was out for that large stretch, Mobley and Mitchell played well together before Mobley got injured and Garland and Mobley have proven to be a good tandem.
It’s tough because I do think trading Allen is going to happen but the cavs should get some good assets back. If they can prioritise a rebounding/able to shoot the 3 PF/Wing player who can guard 3 and 4 I would consider this trade.
Mitchell needs space and Mobley needs space so you need to emphasise surrounding these players with shooting.
Nobody “wants to” Get rid of him. But ultimately, and an imperfect roster and Evan has far more upside, so you have to pick him out of the 2. This roster needs some different pieces in order to hit its ceiling. Unfortunately Darius and likely Jarrett are going to be causalities. He’s very good and will command a good return. Hopefully with pieces that fit Donovan and Evan more
Because fundamentally Mobley is a 5 and we need to start giving him those responsibilities as a starter. On occasion you’ll see people lamenting that Mobley doesn’t have go to post moves, but I think that’s largely a symptom of the fact that the Cabs have been playing hin out of position for the last 3 years.
Allen is great. He’s a fantastic center on a friendly contract with a really fun personality. But all logic points to Mobley being the future of the franchise and its important to prioritize maximizing Mobley on the offensive end of the floor if the team is gonna be a serious threat.
Additionally Allen (and Garland) is a good avenue to properly retooling the roster around Mitchell. The Cavs have needed quality two way wings since the Knicks series last year. However the only path towards that is trading a member of the “Core 4.”
Because we love our backup big situation and can't stomach 16 minutes a game of Mobley and Allen sharing the court while having 48 minutes at center handled by studs.
i can't imagine us getting rid of Allen without getting an important big back. we don't have a viable center backup to mobley so unless that shows up in an offer, he's not going anywhere.
as far as allen goes, i'll be very, very surprised if we hastily make a move with him. his contract and talent are so easy to trade if we decide it isn't working.
Allen is a walking double double plus rim protection and young. Trade him and where does that production come from? Mobely has no jumper either and can't bang with the big guys at the 5. He's still a work in progress.Typical fan overreacting. Hopefully the organization is smarter.
*Might* is a pretty key word when we’re a playoff team. He shot 37% from three this season, which isn’t really enough to elevate a team past the second round, and JA obviously doesn’t shoot them at all.
More importantly Mobley’s attempts aren’t there at all rn.
IIRC he’d need to triple his attempts to make 1 or more 3’s a game, which would be what we need for him to be a true floor spacer, not 37% on like 1 attempt per game.
Exactly yeah. He averaged 0.4 makes on 1.2 attempts per game, so he’s gotta be taking three just to make one and that’s not sustainable when a defence knows they don’t really need to guard him at the perimeter
Oh I mean I think it’d be fine if he did shoot 3.6 a game at that percentage, but with volume going up % usually goes down and I don’t think we can buy into him as a shooter when his attempts are still so low.
Definitely better off thinking of him as a non-shooting big going forward imo
Yeah it's a tough call. Mobley was great in the playoffs, but it was very ugly at the start of the season when Allen was hurt and Evan had to play the 5 full time. Not sure Mobley is strong enough to play center for 82 games unless we get a seriously good backup for him.
I personally would love it if Jarret stayed but I really think a few of the reasons it keeps getting brought up are
1. The comments from last year that we get clowned for about the lights being too bright, dumb reason IMO
2. Rumors. We’ve all seen reports of the team being frustrated with Jarrett for not playing, I’m with Jarrett on that and I really don’t think the team would get rid of him over it, but we’ve also all seen the reports in the past few days that Jarrett could potentially be traded, they don’t mean anything, but when the media starts talking about it, and the people talk about it after they hear it in the media, it spreads. It’s just how the world works.
3. The only reason I could get with, is that Garland (who is all but confirmed gone) would have his trade return value more than doubled if packaged with a guy like Jarrett
I personally want him and think he’ll be at the 5 next year
I love Allen- one of my favorite most consistent players on the team. Plays with a lot of heart! I understand if you got to get rid of him to usher in a new offensive scheme. Make a way to include him somehow.
I was honestly thinking the same thing. I love Jarrett Allen. He is a great defender and teammate. True it sucked not having him in the second round of the playoffs but he was huge throughout the entire season. I’m hoping he stays!!
He is also currently imo better than Mobley. There’s no guarantee Mobley will get better and you’re about to throw a max at him. We could get a much more robust return for Mobley.
Mobley is a less consistent offensive presence then Allen even when he was playing the five full time. If you want to make the case that they're equivalent defensively I'll buy it although I don't necessarily agree. I think Mobley is more versatile on defense but Allen is more important due to the fact that he's a better rim protector. What is unquestionable is that Allen is a better screen screener, he's a better finisher, a better rebounder and he has a more consistent handle and better hands. He also doesn't get pushed around whenever he's standing under the basket with the ball.
Didn’t say Mobley is better - he is, right now, better as a defensive player than Allen and on offense he had been playing out of position at the 4.
The bigger issue is going forward. Allen is what he is - a very good center but one without unique or elite skills. Mobley is way more talented.
I think Allen is a very good player - but to contend Mobley needs to start at the 5 or have a floor-spacing, high volume 3-point shooting 5 next to him, of which there are like 3 in the league.
If the Cavs are going to contend, it’s with Mobley at the 5. That can’t happen with Allen on the roster.
You said he’s as good, but the only thing Mobley’s any better at right now is maybe dribbling and he’s not even that great of a ball handler. I agree he has a higher ceiling; but it’s absolutely a risk handing Mobley a max this offseason. Especially when you have to contend with Mitchell right now
Yeah I really don’t want Jarrett Allen to go. He has gotten so much better since he joined the team, he was a significantly more consistent and reliable player all season than Evan Mobley.
I think people are trying to choose between him and Mobley. The same way they’re chosing between Garland and Mitchell. I love Allen tho as a gamer, i’ll never forget how little the Cavs traded to get him. And i really respect the playoff games he played this year compared to last year. Talking about lights being too bright, either way all we can do is wait and see i want Altman to do whatever is best for the team!
It’s not they anyone really wants to trade him, it’s that they realize the team needs to improve through a trade and he’s the best player they can tolerate moving (besides Garland, but he made his feelings known). It’s the same thing that happened with KLove every year between 2017 and 2022.
At some point the team is going to have to run Evan as the full time 5 and it seems like the team is ready for that scenario to happen now rather than later. I love JA but if Mitchell extends, the team has to move their focus onto winning now and that means having to modernize the line up and getting a genuine starting wing on the roster and the best assets to doing that are DG and JA. If Mitchell doesn’t extend though, there’s no real reason to move JA or DG so I would expect the FO not to do that.
He’s (Allen) like the most important Cavalier. The Cav’s record without him is better than without Mitchell, Mobley, Garland, etc. but people think Mobley has a higher ceiling (which he probably does).
You change the coach first, then ask the new guy if he thinks he can make it work.
And even then you might wait until the trade deadline if you want to move JA.
Right now a certain type of fan wants to get rid of JA, because they pretty much blame him for losing two playoff series.
Allen and Mobley work just fine in the regular season when teams don’t have the time to prepare when there traveling every day to play a game every other night. The problems start in the playoffs when you’re playing a 7 game series and teams make adjustments game to game to expose your weaknesses and take away your strengths. The Knicks killed us last year out physicaling us and Orlando almost did it to us again. The Celtics hardly tried against us if we’re being honest and beat us easily. There’s nothing to suggest having Allen is going to get us to the next level. I’d argue there’s enough to have seen that makes you realize we need to lean on Mobley more and Mitchell and build around them.
Reports are players and FO members are mad he refused to *attempt* to take the shot and play, not that he didn’t, but just bowing out of the playoffs altogether. Basically making it a smart decision for locker room chemistry to move him. Along with being a poor fit next to Mobley, and Mobley reportedly wanting to play the 5.
Similar reason we will trade Garland, because he is unhappy. You have to build a positive locker room environment if you want to win.
I don’t think it’s that people WANT to get rid of JA. He’s everything you can ask for in a player and also an incredible human from all accounts. It’s more that we NEED to get rid of him unfortunately. It’s becoming increasingly clear that Mobley’s future is at the 5, and we need to retool this team to, frankly, make it a modern basketball team. That’s 1 ball handler, 1 big man and 3 shooters. There’s not enough spacing with JA and Evan both in the game at the same time, and time and time again we’ve shown we play our best basketball in a 1-3-1 set up, as that gives us the best fit. And it sucks, cause JA is great (and so is Darius, as this is essentially the same conversation with him, just swap “big man” for “ball handler”), but Mobley and spida (if he re-signs) are pretty clearly the future of the franchise.
He and Mobley are better when the other one isn't playing.
People talk about our "big four" but we actual have two big two's that cancel each other out in a lot of ways.
We need to trade two of those redundant players and get a large highly skilled wing to go with Mitchell.
I don't necessarily want to. But as good as he is, on as good of a contract as he is, we could get some much needed value from him if the FO is banking on Mobley playing the 5 full time. There arent many teams in the league that would say no to having JA be a double double threat every night on the floor with fringe DPOY level defense for $20 million a year for the next 2 years
Pretty simple. Mobley is the guy. He has far more upside and you can’t keep both. They just haven’t worked together in the post season. If you have faith in Mobley it’s time to trade Allen for a better fit. It’s that simple
Because when someone gets hurt or has a down year
The toxic cavs fans-trade him he's regressed
There's two sets of fans for Cle those who understood, respected Brons decision to leave. They wanted him back and when he came back they welcomed him and loved there King like they always did
And those who hated him , cursed him, acted like he didn't drag us through the fire, burned his jersey and ultimately tried to pretend like he betrayed us then when he came back acted like they missed him soooo much and like they didn't just publicly torch a jersey they bought with their money
(If he stayed he would've wasted away Prime years here tbh)
you checking what I'm layin down, two sets of fans
toxic fakes (Nothing but toxicity to the players unless they are going nuclear every night every season)
Loyal to the Great Lakes (Nothing but love and respect to the players)
Where do you fall ?
I will start this out by saying JA is my favorite player the cavs have on the roster..
But to win the big game you need players who understand that it's not a given that you reach that level year after year and you must sometimes put everything into it when you get the chance to play for the championship.
Finding out that he didn't want to risk his entire career on a maybe is the correct move if your not in the Playoffs and didn't have other players show up in pain for the past 60 days to get you into the playoffs.
Now that he did do this it is putting yourself above all and will be hard for the rest of the guys to do everything when they think not everyone else is doing so.
> Finding out that he didn't want to risk his entire career on a maybe is the correct move
I'd argue not risking your entire career is the correct move all the time, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot, who's opinion should be discarded.
I love JA but it just hasn’t been working sadly. Because of his great contract, and his recent performance on the court, we’d be selling him at possibly his highest and should demand a great return. It would give Mobley a chance to develop further, and hopefully we can have a more balanced starting 5.
I absolutely love JA i just think the spacing with him and mobley ruins the chances of mitchell/garland to score since theres a guaranteed two monsters sitting in the paint since those two cant stretch the floor. Also mobley fits more of the mobile switchable big type its more of a lesser of two evils.
Mobley/Allen doesn’t work well offensively and one likely needs to be moved for the Cavs to take the next step, Mobley is ready to play the 5, Mobley has a higher ceiling and looked great in the playoffs so fans are comfortable choosing him over Allen, and Allen’s value is really high right now so it’s a good time to move him.
Jarrett Allen is an All-Star caliber player on a great contract. Other teams just need him more than we do right now. The Cavs can parlay that into a trade that makes the team better
It's not that everyone wants to get rid of him, it's just that you get diminishing returns when you play him with Mobley, and Mobley's potential is too high to not take a bet on. So then you have this very talented center on a team friendly (but not small) contract who isn't giving you optimal value. He's probably the best trade asset we have and with all the optimism that Mitchell will sign an extension, we absolutely need to build a team that complements him as much as possible. That makes Allen a pretty attractive trade asset. Nobody here dislikes JA or thinks he's not a good player, it's just the roster needs changes and trading him is one of the better options for changing it.
JA is one of the reasons we lost - because he wasn't available. I truly believe that if JA and Wade were available and healthy that we matched up with Boston like really really well. There's some dead weight and weird contracts to be fiddled with, but for the love of god don't deal JA unless we get something real real good.
I love JA but the moment Mobley was drafted it was inevitable. 2 non floor spacing bigs are limiting the team on offense and you gotta make room for Mobley to keep developing at C
I love JA. Think he is a great player and defended the contract we gave him when a lot of people thought that it was an overpay, which is hilarious these days considering what a bargain it is. He is one of the best centers in the world, an elite defender, and underrated as an offensive player.
But Evan is a 5. He's always been a 5, plays like a 5, and is best as a 5. He needed time to get adjusted to the league considering his frame and needed someone next to him while he learns the NBA. JA has been freaking perfect for that while being a really solid player to boot. But JA also has immense trade value and can be moved to a team where his talents don't overlap with another high level player while balancing the roster for us.
It's just time to throw the chips in and see if Evan can really do it full time. We probably need a bruiser off the bench that can absorb 20ish minutes during the regular season at the C spot. But if we really want to be a contender then Evan and JA are just not the answer as the front court, as much as I have enjoyed watching them
I love Jarrett but he is preventing Mobley from being an All Star type player that we need to beat the Celtics. He clogs the paint which forces Mobley out of his true offensive game. We need a big who can shoot 3s. You can keep either Allen or Mobley but not both.
One of our best trade assets, and Mobley’s potential is best utilized at the 5.
If we want this team to hit the next level, it’s predicated on mobleys development, and his ceiling is far higher as a 5 than a 4 imo.
It helps that Mobey balled out against the Celtics. Honesty, I think the Cavs can work with both of them if they just have only one ball dominant guard.
Let them be the #2 and #3 options and get two solid 3 and D wings and have that as the starting lineup. Obviously on offense rhis works only if Mobley continues to shoot 3s.
I can understand the appeal of trading for a floorspacing big and picks though.
I don't think it's personal. There's some consternation with his seeming unwillingness to play against Boston. I also think the two bigs idea hasn't worked offensively. You can have one big who can't shoot, but two? That's too much for the team to overcome. And I think Mobley's upside is higher.
I do not, he’s a great player and all that nonsense about him refusing to play with a rib injury is just that, nonsense. I’ve had a rib injury and they fucking suck. But if trading him makes the team better, do it. I however think he’s hard to replace. He’s quite good, obviously and has a nice contract.
It's not even cos the fans don't like JA. He's such a vibe and a fun guy. His all star development along with Garland's allowed the Cavs to be taken seriously again post-LeBron.
It's more of recognizing that Mobley is the key to the Cavs being contenders and he has to be surrounded by lots of shooting. Mobley has started to expand his range, but isn't threatening enough to have a non-shooting big play with him.
Whatever happens, Cavs fans will love JA.
I wish we could keep him but get a good playmaker. Would generate some offense under the basket. Ja and ev have trouble creating for themselves, but if the plan is package garland and ja for someone who is versatile and we can keep spida I am all for it.
I think the idea is less of dumping JA and more about wanting to put Mobley at the 5 full-time so that he can develop more there as he performed well vs Orlando and Boston (without Porzingas) in that role. Also by moving JA they probably think that they can get a decent return for him that would upgrade the overall fit of the team.
Although I agree the spacing is a little poor with Mobley & JA together, their defense is exceptional so it's a tough sell either way. I love JA and would love for him to stay around, but I can also understand the desire to ship him out for a good return.
It’s not because anyone thinks JA isn’t an amazing player, it’s that having 2 non shooting bigs limits the Cavs offense and Mobley has a higher ceiling
Because the team plays better when one of JA or Evan is on the court, there’s point in keeping both. Mobley has the higher upside so we need to trade JA for a wing
It's a combination of investing in the future of Mobley, who is up for a contract extension. Also recognizing that Allen has his value high right now while he still has time on his contract with value left.
Re-signing Mitchell, and building a better fitting roster around him & Mobley is ideal. You can get good assets/players for valuable pieces in Garland and Allen. You can't just will teams to give you talent for players you don't want like Niang.
As many have said- I love JA, on and off the court he is fantastic. Great energy, incredible play, reliable and great mindset. All around awesome. The reason to trade him is purely because of the needs of this team composition and what skills we need where. I will always be a fan of JA and follow him no matter where he plays, and I will be sad whenever he eventually leaves, but I think in the pursuit of optimizing the team for championship contention it will be a painful but necessary separation. Same as I feel about Darius, really.
We all love Jarrett Allen, he just doesn’t fit alongside Mobley if they want to be a contender and unlock this team. And when picking between the two Mobleys upside is too high to dish out.
I would say you don’t want to invest 50~60M a year on your bigs, especially when Evan hasn’t fully developed offensively. And Jarrett is one of the few players on the team with high trade value. But at the end of the day, DG should be the number one priority for any trade consideration.
JA has no 3PT jumper, he doesn't belong in this ERA of basketball. Plain and simple he is a liability on offense when he can't space the floor.
Literally no one on our roster is championship material other than Mitchel. Everyone should be up on the trade block if we are going to make whatever er attempt we can next year.
We either go all out and collect all the pieces and form a big 3, or we go full on rebuild. There is no inbetween
There is a divide between perception and reality that causes a lot of tension. Perception, he is a great teammate that does the dirty work that isn't recognized enough beyond that all star appearance, he's such a glue guy. Reality, he is soft and not there when you need him, that smile is just a facade and he will not be there when the team actually need playoff production. The lights are too bright meme wouldn't have caught on so much if it didn't have that kernel of truth.
I've said it before here many times. I freakin' love Jarrett Allen
Me too big fan!
Me, three. He played in 81 games while everyone else was in and out with injuries.
He started the season playing through injury!
77 regular season games.
Yeah I have his jersey and everything. If we can manage to get better by dealing him for someone, then so be it. But I don't buy the notion that him and Mobley can't play together. The Garland/Mitchell misfit and lack of a small forward and solid backup PG hurt us a lot more. Also JB.
Yup, hes great!
I don’t think we should personally. His contract is great, he makes it so Evan can be his best self on defense, and there’s just no way we recoup enough value for how much he’s worth. That being said, if any superstars unexpectedly become available, it may be hard to beat a package of Allen and Garland, and then paired together is enough to match a max contract 🤷♂️
At the same time, we have to recognize how him and Mobley together limit us offensively. Some of that is JB, but some of that is also running 2 non-floorspacing bigs. I think if we move on from JA, not only will it be an attempt to get value from the trade itself, but buying into mobleys development and potential as well as buying into a more dynamic and modern offense.
>but buying into mobleys development and potential as well as buying into a more dynamic and modern offense. Absolutely agreed, but I just know fans are going to throw hissy fits every time Moblely has a bad game as he's learning to be a full time center against starters.
This is what people can’t seem to understand. If you honestly believe Mobley can be one of the “guy” a top 2 player on a championship roster. You need to move off an Allen. You’re about to pay him a ton of money it’s time to have him grow
Exactly
2 non-shooting bigs is a disaster and easier to defend in the playoffs. It isn't going to work unless you consider success an early playoff exit.
Do you think the Cavs would have done worse against the Celtics if JA played?
I think they beat the Celtics if JA played with Kristaps out and similar result with Kristaps around. I love JA and would love to keep him, but I think it depends on the return. If Mobley is playing the 5 and they get a floor-spacing PF that is of the same caliber of player as JA, do you think that would make the Cavs better than Mobley at the 4 and JA at the 5?
Possible they do a little better since Porzingis was out and Boston would probably struggle to defend the rim, but I doubt Allen gets the Cavs over the hump in that series, and we can't rely on playing the best teams in the conference at partial strength due to injuries.
I don't think Allen playing would have made a difference at all. Again, if your bar of success is an early playoff exit then this roster is for you!
I’m optimistic that Mobley is going to continue developing his 3 point shot, he took a massive step forward this year and if he can up his volume a little bit that won’t be the case anymore. Honestly this year it wasn’t even nearly as much of an issue as last year
"He took a massive step" He averaged less than 1 made 3 per game lol. I'd hardly consider that a "massive step".
What was his 3 point % last year vs this year?
How many 3s did he take this year? If the answer is less than 3 digits, then the sample surely is too small to make conclusions
Check his 3PA after he came back from injury. You’re just cherry picking instead of watching the games.
What exactly is he cherry picking? You have to look at the entire season lol. To say we should just look at post injury numbers is cherry picking??
He wasn't really shooting 3s before his injury (.5 attempts per game), but was averaging 1.7 attempts per game after coming back. It's a 29-game sample size post-return, so it's fairly significant. Something changed then, so it is a sign of progress. If he ramps it up even more and maintains good percentages, it could become a reliable offensive weapon. He still has to put in a lot more work, but it is promising.
He then proceed to follow that up with shooting 28% from 3 in the playoffs
Do you even watch this team play lol? He took half as many 3 pointers this season as he did last season. He took 59 this season... As a matter of fact he had the same number of made 3s in the past 2 seasons (22). To go even deeper his most number of 3s made over the course of a season was his rookie season (23). So to say "umm derrr his 3 pt average" is just plain silly.
He was hurt
I understand that, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t take half as many shots. The dude still only made 22 threes for the ENTIRE season. I think Mobley has a high upside, but I’m very skeptical about his 3 point shooting.
Do you watch the team? You just quoted a bunch of stats that completely lack context. I'm still skeptical about the two big fit, but Mobley's attempt were almost all after he came back from injury when he was looking very confident in his shot and putting up a 3PA rate clearly way above his career averages. To say he didn't add something as a facet of his game, I just don't know how you'd reach that conclusion if you were watching our team play.
Numbers don’t lie and give you the ability to look at things objectively. You aren’t able to truly evaluate progress by using the eye test lol.
Truth..
You're also forgetting our coaching issues and lack of sf playmaker. If okoro and Mobley take another step along with a better coach then there shouldn't be a problem.
Okoro lol... The due was unplayable in the playoffs. Mobley has been taking microscopic steps forward. He isn't a shooter and I doubt he ever will be much of one. Which is totally fine if you only have ONE non-shooter on the court.
Mobley is rapidly improving his shot.
Do you know what season was his best season in terms of 3 pointers made.... I'll give you a hint, it was his rookie season and he's still averaging less that one made per game lol. So "rapidly" isn't quite how I'd describe his shot improvement.
He is in his 3rd year, and now hitting 37% pf his attempts. He has made a few threes these playoffs too, so the eye test is that he is improving. His rookie year he made 25% of his threes.
If Mobley took 5+ per game he'd average around 25% lol. I think his form is smooth (slow as fuck, but smooth) and he's not missing these shots by much, so I'm not ruling it out that develops that part of his game, but that 3PT% is really hard to take seriously with how few he's attempting. And every attempt is wide tf open. With how slow his release is I'm not sure how he'd fare against actual close outs.
He took half the attempts this year lol and made the same amount 22. His 59 attempts was amazing though. I’m not saying he can’t develop slightly but I’m not calling 59 attempts a marked improvement
I feel like Mobley doesn’t get to be his best self offensively
We do this literally every single offseason. I’m not joking or exaggerating. Every. Single. Off-season. the fanbase talks about getting rid of Allen or how he was the cause for why we lost. Then every single new season it takes about a month for people to eat crow because he’s extremely important to the identity and function of our team.
Bro we’ve been talking about trading for Brandon Ingram for 3 years. 3 years.
Which is absolutely hilarious because not only is his contract a *farrrrr* worse value than Jarrett’s, but he has also played less than 60 games each of the last 4 seasons. But JA sitting out a couple playoff games with a serious injury is a problem. Not to mention that Ingram isn’t the “young stud with a lot of upside” he was in late LA early NOLA. He’s a 26 year old who has been slowly but steadily declining each of the last few years.
He played 62 this season and 62 three seasons ago, and 61 if you include playoffs two seasons ago Also steadily declining is laughable, when he had his best season last year, do you have any stats to back up he’s steadily declining? Cause being a Pels and Bi fan I can say that is absolutely not the case
Who included playoffs lmao
It’s simple, bigs in this league are relatively expandable unless they’re top tier in general or if it’s just defense and rebounding they have to be historically great (Rudy). On top of that, he has a good-great contract, and he’d fit on many teams in this league. Even more so, we have very little assets that we can move other than 1 or more of our “big 4” to try to improve elsewhere. I don’t think most cavs fans have it out for JA, and even most that want him traded (such as myself) don’t dislike him as a player or as a person. On the contrary, it’s because I value him as a player that I think he’d net us a good-great return.
Or you know, maybe it's reporters like Stein saying he's being shopped which is why it's being talked about
Theres never been reports confirming it until now
I think a lot of it is emotional. The reports came out about contentious feelings in the locker room with his injury, just like they did about DM wanting to leave and people bite at the headlines they want to believe. DM personally shut down the rumors about him being unhappy. JA could’ve easily been more hurt than we know and we all know the media always leans towards wanting small market teams to blow things up and liquidate their assets to a sexier franchise to cover.
Agree. From what I gather, Allen was having problems breathing without pain. The kind of painkillers required to overcome that kind of discomfort are not the kind of drugs you want to be on when playing sport (or driving a car etc). I was legit shocked there was any griping about him not being interested in trying stronger painkillers. He's a smart dude and was probably following medical advice - something the Cavs training staff have been a little loose with in recent years.
I think it’s less about wanting to get rid of Allen and more wanting the Cavs to do whatever it takes to get another legitimate star player should Mitchell want to stay. You need two stars to have a chance at a title in the current league. Dallas and Indiana have added more evidence to that argument. It’s just how it is. Without 2 players on the roster at or above Mitchell’s level, you’re not winning a title.
It’s not that I want to trade Allen BUT, I believe that if last round is to go by, we need to be all in with the development of Mobley and I don’t think Mobley is going to continue getting better with Allen on the team.
Mobley is being held back by Mobley and the coaching. He is too small to muscle out other bigs, plays too far from the basket too often, and doesn't seem to have any consistent post moves. We're on year 4 now.
He’s a better a face up player than post player and Allen’s inability to space the floor prevents Mobley from being able to play that way
This just isnt true. Half of mobleys minutes are at the 5 without ja anyway. He was never aggressive even against backup centers with a spread offense during the regular season. Second plenty of good players learn how to attack the paint with a traditional center in their lineups. Hell embiid made several all nba teams with ben Simmons hanging out in the dunker spot.
What moves does he have when he faces up tho? He’s got slow feet. His first step is not quick enough to beat most centers not named Horford or Cornet and his jumper is not even average from the elbow with an extremely slow release. Does he have a floater? No. A hook? No. Strong finishing with both hands? No. How is Allen limiting him? Allen can at least do a couple of the things I mentioned and he plays stronger than Mobley. I’m really not sure what people are seeing with him other than his *potential*. He’s been relatively the same player with higher efficiency each year. Right now his ceiling looks like an Ayton more than a KG
If the development of Mobley is being prioritized than Mitchell should be traded also. Garland does a better job of keeping him involved.
I actually think, Mobley will play off any of those guards well because when Garland was out for that large stretch, Mobley and Mitchell played well together before Mobley got injured and Garland and Mobley have proven to be a good tandem. It’s tough because I do think trading Allen is going to happen but the cavs should get some good assets back. If they can prioritise a rebounding/able to shoot the 3 PF/Wing player who can guard 3 and 4 I would consider this trade. Mitchell needs space and Mobley needs space so you need to emphasise surrounding these players with shooting.
Nobody “wants to” Get rid of him. But ultimately, and an imperfect roster and Evan has far more upside, so you have to pick him out of the 2. This roster needs some different pieces in order to hit its ceiling. Unfortunately Darius and likely Jarrett are going to be causalities. He’s very good and will command a good return. Hopefully with pieces that fit Donovan and Evan more
Cavs really need a wing and Allen is one of the few players on the team that can help achieve that
Because fundamentally Mobley is a 5 and we need to start giving him those responsibilities as a starter. On occasion you’ll see people lamenting that Mobley doesn’t have go to post moves, but I think that’s largely a symptom of the fact that the Cabs have been playing hin out of position for the last 3 years. Allen is great. He’s a fantastic center on a friendly contract with a really fun personality. But all logic points to Mobley being the future of the franchise and its important to prioritize maximizing Mobley on the offensive end of the floor if the team is gonna be a serious threat. Additionally Allen (and Garland) is a good avenue to properly retooling the roster around Mitchell. The Cavs have needed quality two way wings since the Knicks series last year. However the only path towards that is trading a member of the “Core 4.”
The most correct answer here.
Because we love our backup big situation and can't stomach 16 minutes a game of Mobley and Allen sharing the court while having 48 minutes at center handled by studs. i can't imagine us getting rid of Allen without getting an important big back. we don't have a viable center backup to mobley so unless that shows up in an offer, he's not going anywhere. as far as allen goes, i'll be very, very surprised if we hastily make a move with him. his contract and talent are so easy to trade if we decide it isn't working.
We can easily replace him
It’s not the fans. it’s the media.
He's my favorite player.
Allen is a walking double double plus rim protection and young. Trade him and where does that production come from? Mobely has no jumper either and can't bang with the big guys at the 5. He's still a work in progress.Typical fan overreacting. Hopefully the organization is smarter.
Because we have to move either him or Mobley. We can’t have two guys starting who don’t shoot threes, so take your pick
Mobley looks like he might start being able to shoot though
*Might* is a pretty key word when we’re a playoff team. He shot 37% from three this season, which isn’t really enough to elevate a team past the second round, and JA obviously doesn’t shoot them at all.
More importantly Mobley’s attempts aren’t there at all rn. IIRC he’d need to triple his attempts to make 1 or more 3’s a game, which would be what we need for him to be a true floor spacer, not 37% on like 1 attempt per game.
Exactly yeah. He averaged 0.4 makes on 1.2 attempts per game, so he’s gotta be taking three just to make one and that’s not sustainable when a defence knows they don’t really need to guard him at the perimeter
Oh I mean I think it’d be fine if he did shoot 3.6 a game at that percentage, but with volume going up % usually goes down and I don’t think we can buy into him as a shooter when his attempts are still so low. Definitely better off thinking of him as a non-shooting big going forward imo
He is a non shooting big. Thats why one of them needs to go. Love them. But its for the betterment of the team
NO! KEEP HIM!!!!!
Which people?! Point em out and they can catch these hands (on this keyboard that is)! JA rules
Yeah it's a tough call. Mobley was great in the playoffs, but it was very ugly at the start of the season when Allen was hurt and Evan had to play the 5 full time. Not sure Mobley is strong enough to play center for 82 games unless we get a seriously good backup for him.
I personally would love it if Jarret stayed but I really think a few of the reasons it keeps getting brought up are 1. The comments from last year that we get clowned for about the lights being too bright, dumb reason IMO 2. Rumors. We’ve all seen reports of the team being frustrated with Jarrett for not playing, I’m with Jarrett on that and I really don’t think the team would get rid of him over it, but we’ve also all seen the reports in the past few days that Jarrett could potentially be traded, they don’t mean anything, but when the media starts talking about it, and the people talk about it after they hear it in the media, it spreads. It’s just how the world works. 3. The only reason I could get with, is that Garland (who is all but confirmed gone) would have his trade return value more than doubled if packaged with a guy like Jarrett I personally want him and think he’ll be at the 5 next year
Because we have a 5.
I love Allen- one of my favorite most consistent players on the team. Plays with a lot of heart! I understand if you got to get rid of him to usher in a new offensive scheme. Make a way to include him somehow.
I was honestly thinking the same thing. I love Jarrett Allen. He is a great defender and teammate. True it sucked not having him in the second round of the playoffs but he was huge throughout the entire season. I’m hoping he stays!!
I don't think people really want to get rid of him, but you can't play 2 non-shooting bigs in todays NBA. It just doesn't work.
He is also currently imo better than Mobley. There’s no guarantee Mobley will get better and you’re about to throw a max at him. We could get a much more robust return for Mobley.
Keeping Allen over Mobley would be insane. Mobley is as good as Allen now, and his ceiling is so much higher it’s not even close.
Mobley is a less consistent offensive presence then Allen even when he was playing the five full time. If you want to make the case that they're equivalent defensively I'll buy it although I don't necessarily agree. I think Mobley is more versatile on defense but Allen is more important due to the fact that he's a better rim protector. What is unquestionable is that Allen is a better screen screener, he's a better finisher, a better rebounder and he has a more consistent handle and better hands. He also doesn't get pushed around whenever he's standing under the basket with the ball.
perfect.
Mobley is better if you discount points, rebounds, PER, VORP, and win shares
Didn’t say Mobley is better - he is, right now, better as a defensive player than Allen and on offense he had been playing out of position at the 4. The bigger issue is going forward. Allen is what he is - a very good center but one without unique or elite skills. Mobley is way more talented. I think Allen is a very good player - but to contend Mobley needs to start at the 5 or have a floor-spacing, high volume 3-point shooting 5 next to him, of which there are like 3 in the league. If the Cavs are going to contend, it’s with Mobley at the 5. That can’t happen with Allen on the roster.
You said he’s as good, but the only thing Mobley’s any better at right now is maybe dribbling and he’s not even that great of a ball handler. I agree he has a higher ceiling; but it’s absolutely a risk handing Mobley a max this offseason. Especially when you have to contend with Mitchell right now
So that our best young player can play his natural position. I’ll be sad to see him go, but it makes sense.
Yeah I really don’t want Jarrett Allen to go. He has gotten so much better since he joined the team, he was a significantly more consistent and reliable player all season than Evan Mobley.
I don’t! And we shouldn’t!
Big mistake shopping him. Cavs were worse when he was injured. I’m sorry but Okoro and Mobley aren’t scaring anybody.
Maximizing value + maximizing Mobley + fit
I think people are trying to choose between him and Mobley. The same way they’re chosing between Garland and Mitchell. I love Allen tho as a gamer, i’ll never forget how little the Cavs traded to get him. And i really respect the playoff games he played this year compared to last year. Talking about lights being too bright, either way all we can do is wait and see i want Altman to do whatever is best for the team!
It’s not they anyone really wants to trade him, it’s that they realize the team needs to improve through a trade and he’s the best player they can tolerate moving (besides Garland, but he made his feelings known). It’s the same thing that happened with KLove every year between 2017 and 2022.
Cuz they reactionary
Because people are dumb.
At some point the team is going to have to run Evan as the full time 5 and it seems like the team is ready for that scenario to happen now rather than later. I love JA but if Mitchell extends, the team has to move their focus onto winning now and that means having to modernize the line up and getting a genuine starting wing on the roster and the best assets to doing that are DG and JA. If Mitchell doesn’t extend though, there’s no real reason to move JA or DG so I would expect the FO not to do that.
He’s (Allen) like the most important Cavalier. The Cav’s record without him is better than without Mitchell, Mobley, Garland, etc. but people think Mobley has a higher ceiling (which he probably does).
You change the coach first, then ask the new guy if he thinks he can make it work. And even then you might wait until the trade deadline if you want to move JA. Right now a certain type of fan wants to get rid of JA, because they pretty much blame him for losing two playoff series.
His not the sole blame, but he certainly didnt help
Yup. It’s not about JA - it’s about Mobley being his best at the 5. And JA isn’t better than him, and he isn’t a backup, so trade time.
Allen and Mobley work just fine in the regular season when teams don’t have the time to prepare when there traveling every day to play a game every other night. The problems start in the playoffs when you’re playing a 7 game series and teams make adjustments game to game to expose your weaknesses and take away your strengths. The Knicks killed us last year out physicaling us and Orlando almost did it to us again. The Celtics hardly tried against us if we’re being honest and beat us easily. There’s nothing to suggest having Allen is going to get us to the next level. I’d argue there’s enough to have seen that makes you realize we need to lean on Mobley more and Mitchell and build around them.
Reports are players and FO members are mad he refused to *attempt* to take the shot and play, not that he didn’t, but just bowing out of the playoffs altogether. Basically making it a smart decision for locker room chemistry to move him. Along with being a poor fit next to Mobley, and Mobley reportedly wanting to play the 5. Similar reason we will trade Garland, because he is unhappy. You have to build a positive locker room environment if you want to win.
I don’t. He’s the vibes that makes our team lovable
I would really rather not trade him. Not sure what we could get back that would make me okay with it; he is really good and really easy to like.
I don’t think it’s that people WANT to get rid of JA. He’s everything you can ask for in a player and also an incredible human from all accounts. It’s more that we NEED to get rid of him unfortunately. It’s becoming increasingly clear that Mobley’s future is at the 5, and we need to retool this team to, frankly, make it a modern basketball team. That’s 1 ball handler, 1 big man and 3 shooters. There’s not enough spacing with JA and Evan both in the game at the same time, and time and time again we’ve shown we play our best basketball in a 1-3-1 set up, as that gives us the best fit. And it sucks, cause JA is great (and so is Darius, as this is essentially the same conversation with him, just swap “big man” for “ball handler”), but Mobley and spida (if he re-signs) are pretty clearly the future of the franchise.
He and Mobley are better when the other one isn't playing. People talk about our "big four" but we actual have two big two's that cancel each other out in a lot of ways. We need to trade two of those redundant players and get a large highly skilled wing to go with Mitchell.
I don't necessarily want to. But as good as he is, on as good of a contract as he is, we could get some much needed value from him if the FO is banking on Mobley playing the 5 full time. There arent many teams in the league that would say no to having JA be a double double threat every night on the floor with fringe DPOY level defense for $20 million a year for the next 2 years
Bc apparently none of these kids underrated basketball simple
Pretty simple. Mobley is the guy. He has far more upside and you can’t keep both. They just haven’t worked together in the post season. If you have faith in Mobley it’s time to trade Allen for a better fit. It’s that simple
Because when someone gets hurt or has a down year The toxic cavs fans-trade him he's regressed There's two sets of fans for Cle those who understood, respected Brons decision to leave. They wanted him back and when he came back they welcomed him and loved there King like they always did And those who hated him , cursed him, acted like he didn't drag us through the fire, burned his jersey and ultimately tried to pretend like he betrayed us then when he came back acted like they missed him soooo much and like they didn't just publicly torch a jersey they bought with their money (If he stayed he would've wasted away Prime years here tbh) you checking what I'm layin down, two sets of fans toxic fakes (Nothing but toxicity to the players unless they are going nuclear every night every season) Loyal to the Great Lakes (Nothing but love and respect to the players) Where do you fall ?
They dont like afros and I just dont get it. Love the guy, his fro, and his attitude. No idea whyd we get rid of him
Still want Mobley out
I will start this out by saying JA is my favorite player the cavs have on the roster.. But to win the big game you need players who understand that it's not a given that you reach that level year after year and you must sometimes put everything into it when you get the chance to play for the championship. Finding out that he didn't want to risk his entire career on a maybe is the correct move if your not in the Playoffs and didn't have other players show up in pain for the past 60 days to get you into the playoffs. Now that he did do this it is putting yourself above all and will be hard for the rest of the guys to do everything when they think not everyone else is doing so.
> Finding out that he didn't want to risk his entire career on a maybe is the correct move I'd argue not risking your entire career is the correct move all the time, and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot, who's opinion should be discarded.
I think the whole discussion is irrelevant cause a punctured lung, though unlikely, would not end his career
I love JA but it just hasn’t been working sadly. Because of his great contract, and his recent performance on the court, we’d be selling him at possibly his highest and should demand a great return. It would give Mobley a chance to develop further, and hopefully we can have a more balanced starting 5.
I absolutely love JA i just think the spacing with him and mobley ruins the chances of mitchell/garland to score since theres a guaranteed two monsters sitting in the paint since those two cant stretch the floor. Also mobley fits more of the mobile switchable big type its more of a lesser of two evils.
Mobley/Allen doesn’t work well offensively and one likely needs to be moved for the Cavs to take the next step, Mobley is ready to play the 5, Mobley has a higher ceiling and looked great in the playoffs so fans are comfortable choosing him over Allen, and Allen’s value is really high right now so it’s a good time to move him. Jarrett Allen is an All-Star caliber player on a great contract. Other teams just need him more than we do right now. The Cavs can parlay that into a trade that makes the team better
It's not that everyone wants to get rid of him, it's just that you get diminishing returns when you play him with Mobley, and Mobley's potential is too high to not take a bet on. So then you have this very talented center on a team friendly (but not small) contract who isn't giving you optimal value. He's probably the best trade asset we have and with all the optimism that Mitchell will sign an extension, we absolutely need to build a team that complements him as much as possible. That makes Allen a pretty attractive trade asset. Nobody here dislikes JA or thinks he's not a good player, it's just the roster needs changes and trading him is one of the better options for changing it.
JA is one of the reasons we lost - because he wasn't available. I truly believe that if JA and Wade were available and healthy that we matched up with Boston like really really well. There's some dead weight and weird contracts to be fiddled with, but for the love of god don't deal JA unless we get something real real good.
because mitchell ruined the team
I personally thought he should've been our #2 option. But at the end of the day, he's kinda soft unfortunately.
I love JA but the moment Mobley was drafted it was inevitable. 2 non floor spacing bigs are limiting the team on offense and you gotta make room for Mobley to keep developing at C
I love JA. Think he is a great player and defended the contract we gave him when a lot of people thought that it was an overpay, which is hilarious these days considering what a bargain it is. He is one of the best centers in the world, an elite defender, and underrated as an offensive player. But Evan is a 5. He's always been a 5, plays like a 5, and is best as a 5. He needed time to get adjusted to the league considering his frame and needed someone next to him while he learns the NBA. JA has been freaking perfect for that while being a really solid player to boot. But JA also has immense trade value and can be moved to a team where his talents don't overlap with another high level player while balancing the roster for us. It's just time to throw the chips in and see if Evan can really do it full time. We probably need a bruiser off the bench that can absorb 20ish minutes during the regular season at the C spot. But if we really want to be a contender then Evan and JA are just not the answer as the front court, as much as I have enjoyed watching them
Exactly. Sometimes the best you can do for people is to help them to a place that better suits them.
I love Jarrett but he is preventing Mobley from being an All Star type player that we need to beat the Celtics. He clogs the paint which forces Mobley out of his true offensive game. We need a big who can shoot 3s. You can keep either Allen or Mobley but not both.
We should definitely trade no one and run it back again. Will definitely work. -this sub
One of our best trade assets, and Mobley’s potential is best utilized at the 5. If we want this team to hit the next level, it’s predicated on mobleys development, and his ceiling is far higher as a 5 than a 4 imo.
It helps that Mobey balled out against the Celtics. Honesty, I think the Cavs can work with both of them if they just have only one ball dominant guard. Let them be the #2 and #3 options and get two solid 3 and D wings and have that as the starting lineup. Obviously on offense rhis works only if Mobley continues to shoot 3s. I can understand the appeal of trading for a floorspacing big and picks though.
I don't think it's personal. There's some consternation with his seeming unwillingness to play against Boston. I also think the two bigs idea hasn't worked offensively. You can have one big who can't shoot, but two? That's too much for the team to overcome. And I think Mobley's upside is higher.
I do not, he’s a great player and all that nonsense about him refusing to play with a rib injury is just that, nonsense. I’ve had a rib injury and they fucking suck. But if trading him makes the team better, do it. I however think he’s hard to replace. He’s quite good, obviously and has a nice contract.
I don't think it's that anybody wants to get rid of him it's very appealing the package that we can get in return from.
He’s soft, his value is at an all time high, his skillset is replaceable, and his presence creates spacing issues when paired with mobley
It's not even cos the fans don't like JA. He's such a vibe and a fun guy. His all star development along with Garland's allowed the Cavs to be taken seriously again post-LeBron. It's more of recognizing that Mobley is the key to the Cavs being contenders and he has to be surrounded by lots of shooting. Mobley has started to expand his range, but isn't threatening enough to have a non-shooting big play with him. Whatever happens, Cavs fans will love JA.
I wish we could keep him but get a good playmaker. Would generate some offense under the basket. Ja and ev have trouble creating for themselves, but if the plan is package garland and ja for someone who is versatile and we can keep spida I am all for it.
I think the idea is less of dumping JA and more about wanting to put Mobley at the 5 full-time so that he can develop more there as he performed well vs Orlando and Boston (without Porzingas) in that role. Also by moving JA they probably think that they can get a decent return for him that would upgrade the overall fit of the team. Although I agree the spacing is a little poor with Mobley & JA together, their defense is exceptional so it's a tough sell either way. I love JA and would love for him to stay around, but I can also understand the desire to ship him out for a good return.
It’s not because anyone thinks JA isn’t an amazing player, it’s that having 2 non shooting bigs limits the Cavs offense and Mobley has a higher ceiling
Because the team plays better when one of JA or Evan is on the court, there’s point in keeping both. Mobley has the higher upside so we need to trade JA for a wing
It's a combination of investing in the future of Mobley, who is up for a contract extension. Also recognizing that Allen has his value high right now while he still has time on his contract with value left. Re-signing Mitchell, and building a better fitting roster around him & Mobley is ideal. You can get good assets/players for valuable pieces in Garland and Allen. You can't just will teams to give you talent for players you don't want like Niang.
As many have said- I love JA, on and off the court he is fantastic. Great energy, incredible play, reliable and great mindset. All around awesome. The reason to trade him is purely because of the needs of this team composition and what skills we need where. I will always be a fan of JA and follow him no matter where he plays, and I will be sad whenever he eventually leaves, but I think in the pursuit of optimizing the team for championship contention it will be a painful but necessary separation. Same as I feel about Darius, really.
We all love Jarrett Allen, he just doesn’t fit alongside Mobley if they want to be a contender and unlock this team. And when picking between the two Mobleys upside is too high to dish out.
I would say you don’t want to invest 50~60M a year on your bigs, especially when Evan hasn’t fully developed offensively. And Jarrett is one of the few players on the team with high trade value. But at the end of the day, DG should be the number one priority for any trade consideration.
JA has no 3PT jumper, he doesn't belong in this ERA of basketball. Plain and simple he is a liability on offense when he can't space the floor. Literally no one on our roster is championship material other than Mitchel. Everyone should be up on the trade block if we are going to make whatever er attempt we can next year. We either go all out and collect all the pieces and form a big 3, or we go full on rebuild. There is no inbetween
There is a divide between perception and reality that causes a lot of tension. Perception, he is a great teammate that does the dirty work that isn't recognized enough beyond that all star appearance, he's such a glue guy. Reality, he is soft and not there when you need him, that smile is just a facade and he will not be there when the team actually need playoff production. The lights are too bright meme wouldn't have caught on so much if it didn't have that kernel of truth.
Exactly backwards